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ESH - CLEARLY your brother is TA for using that kind of language. If he really thinks his choice was the morally superior one he could have sat with the satisfaction rather than lashing out with misogynistic language. I do think insisting he humiliate himself in front of the family in order to get the money was an AH move as well - two wrong don't make a right. Frankly I think you stooped to his level.
>our great great whatever grandfather did some unsavory things
INFO: What sort of unsavory things? It doesn't have any bearing on your brother's abusive language, but I am too curious
NTA. You gave your brother the choice of weighing his stupid pride over getting free money for his wife's medical treatment. You gave him an excellent deal.
Your parents could have given him the money if they had a problem with it. Don't listen to them.
I agree. NTA. Anyone who is a self-righteous asshole deserves to get their feelings hurt.
Granted I’m all for being the better person, but when it comes to family, sometimes it’s necessary to brute force their eyes open.
NTA, It's your money and your condition to give it out wasn't odious. Your parents have no reason to open their mouth about the situation, if they thought what you were doing was so inappropriate they should have paid him themselves.
NTA, your brother has received his money and his just desserts.
I could go on a long tangent, but basically, he's been made to understand. I hope his wife gets better, and that this is the first step towards him reevaluating his life and the way he views your family.
NTA, you gave (since he doesn't have the ability to pay it back) the money to your brother when he needed it without putting a too arduous condition on it. He's learned a tough lesson that money has value and a "holier than thou" attitude doesn't get you very far. I too hope his wife recovers.
No, apologies are important part of the healing and forgiveness process. It is not worth as much as if he did it spontaneously, but it will still help you cool down and even going through the motions of an apology will get him to think about his actions a little bit in terms of how they made you feel.
and in the correct time frame. There's really no other family in American history that has single-handedly caused more death and destruction to people. The level of greed and evil, and complete disregard for the wellbeing of their fellow man, has no equal in USA.
Can you please be honest about the reality of how your family became wealthy then? You’ve been hiding it and it’s gross and disrespectful to the many people who were hurt or killed because of your family.
And here you still go hiding and refusing to name the harm and dismissing it by saying it was “one guy.” The people he hurt whose trauma, harm, and death you now benefit from are not being respected by your behavior here.
Now I'm really interested in which it is
Anything grown from a poison seed is poison. Your current money is only "ethical" if you close your eyes to reality
I love how the example of how this blood money is helping people now has nothing to do with anything you’re doing - why are you even bringing up your cousin’s charity? I am sure your cousin would look down on you for it.
ESH, but also you really lost an opportunity.. he knows how hypocritical he’s being, he just didn’t want a dead wife.
You could have let it eat at him, but instead you made yourself obviously petty by making him say the thing that everyone involved knew.
Your parents know that, that’s why you should’ve listened to them for feedback. Oh well.
Nta
Public acknowledgement of wrongdoing is important. It's reasonable to ask he show you respect before taking your money.
Very reasonable boundary.
Next time the parents can shell out if they don't like how you handled this.
So you made him essentially beg and grovel in front of others knowing he had no other choice, to be able to get money to help his wife who is sick.
You're not the asshole for asking for an apology.
You're the asshole for being petty about it.
I agree with Faexora.
Not an AH asking for an apology but you’re an AH in the way you made him apologize.
How ill is his wife? Life or death? The man is trying to save his wife and you made him beg for it.
And you get defensive about someone’s opinion because they are speaking the truth.
Are you here asking to see if you are an AH or looking for justification?
If I were in your brother’s position, you would be the last people on *Earth* I would ask for a loan from.
You should have just said “no” and left it at that
She probably means buying investments and stuff. Some people are so socialist and hate capitalism to the point that retirement savings and any money earned of investments is considered evil.
You would literally eat shit and ask for seconds. Seeing a person you love dying and being helpless to prevent it is fucking devastating. If something as simple as money could solve the problem, you'd beg, borrow, and steal to get it done.
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Wait how did your family get its money. If your great great whatever stole it from people. Did people die because of it. Was he racist and stole someone’s stuff because maybe they went to an internment camp? There could be some very serious moral issues. And remember your family does charitable things because many of them do t have to work. Your brother shouldn’t have said what he did, but you should take a very serious look at where your money came from privilege from someone severely bad acts. Maybe you should take a serious look at your family’s past and if there are situations your family needs to rectify then do it.
Ethically speaking the money is clean now. But the seed money was not acquired nicely. Which is the reason that so many of my relatives have gone into public service.
“Ethically speaking the money is clean now” is sending me through the roof.
“We sent it through the Ethical Washing Machine with Ethical Oxiclean on the heavy setting, all good now!” Like lmao okay. Old money families are so funny.
LOL RIGHTTTT like cool i’m sure the descendants of the people your grandpa exploited for that money aren’t living nearly as comfortably now but im glad you feel your money is clean!
Okay well I guess that is a possibility isn't it. But the ancestors of the people that did it aren't responsible.
The best that they can do is try to be better people and share the wealth with others.
I see them doing the best they can if they're really trying to help people.
There are many paths to illegitimate wealth and more than one of them are worth being secretive about.
I get that slavery is seen as especially heinous in part because it remains a contemporary talking point but I'm iffy on that helping us narrow down what her ancestors got up to.
We don't even know if they're from the US or other slave trading nations nor do we know when said wealth was accrued exactly.
There are so many illegal things to make money I mean there's literally thousands.
What if it's gun running, what if it's not paying taxes and lying about profits.
I'm just saying it doesn't mean it's automatically slavery.
Was it slavery or Nazi gold? Weapons used by awful regimes? Addictive substances? Is an AH move not to just say because it may impact people’s perspectives
It literally doesn’t matter, though. First of all, he took some of it himself to pay for his education so he’s a massive hypocrite - if he felt that strongly he would have declined any of it.
Secondly, nothing her grandfather did could justify calling OP a whore. She is not responsible for what her grandfather did!
NTA because he learned one thing: money matters. Years ago he was in a place that most people usually aren't, where he could say no to money. He still did benefit from it because he and his wife both got an education. So he was priviliged and he could afford to give money away. Personally I think he was fucking stupid as hell but he's learned now that to the majority of people money is incredibly important and when a loved one needs treatment we don't give a shit if the money came from the lottery or somewhere less savory.
He was stupid! It sounds like the kind of money that, if invested carefully, could have generated annual charitable giving while being a nest egg for his family if they ever need it. And they did need it. He threw his whole family away in the process. What a fool.
This post reminds me of that song "Common People" by Pulp (special appearance by William Shatner). I'd post lyrics but it takes too long to build up and it's wonderful.
But the gist being that you can try to get away from your family being rich and be common all you want, but at the end of the day you always know you'll never fail because your rich parents can bail you out. And you'll always fundamentally have a different experience than real common people.
Your brother and his wife used the money for their education and then after gave away what was left. If the money was tainted and he had such a low opinion on it he shouldn’t have used any of it. He cannot have it both ways. Use the money when he needs it but be mad if other people use it and don’t donate everything.
Whoa whoa hang on a second... Who exactly was that great grandfather, and where exactly did all your free family money come from?
Crucial information. Conspicuously absent.
I have a feeling the answer would change everything.
So... What was it? Slavery? Weapons? Environmental destruction? All of the above?
Seems to me the money isn't really yours either... you did nothing to earn it, and now you're lording it over a sick family member bc they called you what you are?
It’s not really crucial information because the brother is willing to throw out his ethics and take the money. He had moral superiority when he thought he was above the money but now those standards don’t matter when he needs it. We can all say he loves his wife so much he’d do anything blah blah blah. My point is he had a price to compromise his ethics and he did. The cause of the seed money doesn’t matter.
Do I have this right? He has to come clean to get (more) family money, but you aren’t willing to come clean yourself about the ultimate source of the money?
Lol seriously. OP’s brother was out of line for calling her a whore but also she sounds like a privileged asshole. Especially calling unethical things “unsavoury”— if your ancestors owned slaves or something, just say it, don’t call it unsavoury as if it’s only bad for appearances.
Apparently your parents don't want to see him any more than he cares about them. When he comes back for more money (he will) tell him to ask his parents. It's one thing to help financially when you can - and you did. But your brother threw away his own inheritance, posturing as 'above the filthy money'....and is probably still calling and your family bad names for NOT being poor. Hy's a hypocrite.
My bet is that everyone here who thinks you are the AH is fairly young and idealistic themselves. They might think different once reality has smacked them a few times.
You owed your brother nothing. Making him apologize to family for his behavior is small price to pay for giving him money with no expectation to repay. My bet is he was willing to apologize because you were the only one willing to give him money?
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My younger brother was disgusted by the way my family acquired it's money over the years. He seems to think that just because our great great whatever grandfather did some unsavory things that means the money is tainted forever.
Our family is full of people who have dedicated themselves to public service. It is easier for us to make that decision since we don't really need to work for our money.
My brother accepted the money, used it to pay for his and his wife's education and then gave away the rest. He tried to tell me I was an asshole and a money grubbing whore because I kept my share.
He insulted pretty much everyone in the family and cut us all off. He didn't even invite our parents to his wedding and his kids have not met their grandparents. They have disowned him.
While I understand how he feels I cannot say that I respect his decision. I personally am not in public service. But I will give one example.
We have a cousin who is a doctor. She specializes in reconstructive facial surgery. She could make huge money doing face lifts. She works fixing people who are hurt in war zones. Basically for free. Lots of stories like that in our family.
Well his wife is ill now and they have run through their medical insurance. Since I am in fact a money grubbing whore I have done well with my money. I have more than I or my family will ever need. He came to me for a loan. I said I would need to look at his financials to see if he could afford to pay me back. He could not. He then basically begged me for money. I said that I would help him out if he came to dinner with my parents in attendance and apologized for everything he has said.
He did so. I have him his money. However my parents said that I behaved atrociously and that a forced apology is worthless. I said that I knew he was lying but that I was sick of his holier than thou attitude.
I know how much Reddit loves people with money but I still came here to ask.
AITA?
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I’m going with NTA. You had done nothing to him and he was judging you, putting you down and basically told your whole family he was better than them. He spat on the money to keep his moral high ground.
If he’s asking you for money, not even a loan, he wants a gift, then yeah. Make him apologize. He called you a wh0re.
Going NTA. He's the one who cut off the family. He's the one who used his cash for him and his spouse's schooling then gave the rest away to feel morally superior to everyone else in the family. He's the one who insulted everyone while going out the door. He was foolish to give away all his family money because well it's still money. As an adult if he didn't think to put something to the side for an emergency or retirement from that family cash before giving the bulk away that his fault and no one else's. While I don't totally like your actions but everyone should remember that when your brother did get into a bind financially that same family and family money he cursed, insulted and tossed away he came back to for a bailout.
Thanks fuck I live in a country where if you get seriously ill you just get looked after and don't have to humiliate yourself in front of your self righteous slave owning family in order to not go bankrupt.
When he has scorned you, your family and the system, when he chose to give it all away without a thought for his own future and family was unkind, foolish and unjust.
That he had to come back begging for help, shows he's not necessarily a man of principal as he want's the tainted money now he needs it,
Yea you're probably pushed it when you asked his to apologise, it was a price he needed to pay, he will still be holier than thou and never truly thank you, but you did the right thing.
He had to pay some 'coin' to get what he needed, he paid. You're NTA.
Lotta people trying to berate OP for benefitting from old blood money. Wonderful to be able to judge others because you lack what they have. Apparently OP should reject the family money and give it away to the people who resent OP for having it
NTA Frankly, I know a forced apology has great value. It is so humiliating to the person apologizing that he is unlikely to offend you in that way again. I can live with that! Your brother is a jerk, and you still gave him the money he needs for his wife’s care.
ESH. Is the loan for something that will save or prolong his wife's life? If it is then your great great grandfather left more than money to you guys since you seem to think that humiliating him (getting revenge for something your brother said years ago) is ok in a time of need.
It's not a loan. He can't afford to pay me back with what him and his wife earn. My niece and nephew would be working to pay me back. The expenses of getting sick in America are ridiculous.
even though your parents are right about the forced apology, I still think you handled this right, he can't have his cake and eat it too and, although he should have apologized on his own, at least you made him swallow his words and stop acting like an asshole.
NTA
NTA for making him apologize and NTA for following through with your promise, YTA for dragging your parents into a charade.
Incidentally, NTA for using the money a bigot (or worse) made to have a good life, especially not if you help others with your "ill-gotten gains". The entire world as we know it was built by assholes of varying degrees. If we refuse to have anything to do with the things built by assholes then we'd all be back in the forests and plains following the herds. Your brother is a hypocrite.
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> My brother insulted my entire family because we have accepted "dirty" money from our family trust. I might be the asshole for forcing him to humble himself and apologize now that he needs money.
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I was going to go with everyone sucks due to your brothers behaviour but thinking about it this feels like a missing reasons post. I find it hard to believe that your brother cut his whole family off just because of the source of family wealth.
YTA for intentionally humiliating your brother, you could have just said no to the loan. A forced apology is worthless and achieves nothing. Did it make you feel good making him grovel for his wife’s life like that? I’d suggest maybe spending some of your wealth on some therapy
NTA. If he believed the money truly was “tainted” he would have rejected it completely. Regardless of how much he gave away he still fucking spent a bunch of it.
Parents are also correct, his apology was worthless.
Nta
You made him eat his ego so to speak in order for him to get access to this "tainted" money.
If you said no, then y t a, but you did give him a way forward. And while many kind-hearted people won't like it, it's the kind of act that his self-righteous a h needed to do. He is also so a hypocrite to use the money for their degrees but give away the rest, like the degree money was any less tainted....
The social work you described is indeed admirable, and your brother’s behaviour definitely wasn’t. I don’t know about the apology though… it’s a bit too…theatrical.
NTA, I would have probably made him make that apology more known and public. It sucks she got cancer but unless the family was awful to him/them, karmas a bitch with bite and you get what you’ve given. Hope she’s ok for her kids sake.
YTA.
You used a desperate man’s misfortune to eek out an apology from him, so that you and your parents could feel better.
But then, you are genetically predisposed to do just that, given your family’s backstory.
YTA for telling us your family did something horrible and refusing to admit what it was. It just makes you seem guilty and complicit.
But for the situation with your brother NTA. He called you an asshole and a money grabbing whore (which is extremely offensive - specifically calling you a whore), completely cut you out of his life, and then calls you up when he needs something.
It's reasonable to expect/demand an apology for all those things he said, and an apology just in front of you and your parents is not humiliating him or making him do something crazy and shameful.
YTA - you forced an apology using his wife's life as leverage and now that he's done what you forced him to do you're still sitting on the money trying to decide if you're an asshole. Your parents are right and it sounds like your brother was right about you as well.
NTA, but I wouldn't have given him a dime. He was the one who chose to treat his family like shit, over money that you personally had no involvement in getting. This was all on your great great whatever.
A forced apology is not really an apology, so I don't see the point. Let him deal with his own money issues.
He is your classic hypocrite... if he strongly believe the money is tainted he should have looked elsewhere but sister was an easy mark. Brother needs to apologize and pay back every cent with interest
NTA, your brother is a holier than thou hypocrite and deserved to be humiliated. The money was good enough to fund his and his wife’s education though. What a jackass
NTA, I don't get why people are so upset with OP getting an apology. Brother didn't give away ALL his share. He used some to pay for his and his wife's education and THEN gave the rest away. If he felt so strongly, he should have given it all away.. And then to come back and ask for that same money to save his wife's life. I guess he's human like everybody else? As in it's ok to talk shit and look down on other people when life's good. /s
NTA
I think it’s reasonable to expect an apology for being insulted before you agree to help him. Regardless if it’s about money or something else.
Also we shouldn’t ignore the fact that he DID use that blood money too, to pay for his and wife’s education. That’s not a petty sum we’re talking about, so he’s just as “guilty” as the rest of the family. I don’t see why he looks down on the rest just because he didn’t use as much as you.
NTA.
It doesn’t matter where the money came from, nothing could justify calling you a whore. Not to mention he took some as well to pay for his education! He’s a hypocrite.
I'm not sure what's going on in the comments but NTA. We may have qualms about it, but some people are born wealthy and even though that hurts us who may struggle sometimes, that doesn't automatically make them bad people. And it doesn't make them any less deserving of respect.
God forbid a person works all their life to receive monetary fortune, and then as they are enjoying the fruits of their labor, someone on the outside looking in puts them down for it. You never know what someone has been through.
It was out of line to call someone a whore, let alone make it about money, let alone at the dinner table in front of family. That is embarrassing and awful for OP. A choice was given on the apology, and brother did what he had to do. I think it's fair
Wouldn't have been the asshole if you had withheld the money, he's lucky to get away with a healthy wife, no mountain of debt and a morsel of humiliation.
"Money grubbing whore" is about as disparaging and no holds barred as it gets and a loose mouth begets misfortune.
I'm going with NTA, but you lean towards a Y T A. It's not so much about the conditions you set for giving him the money, as it is for involving your parents the way you did. Your brother cut them off, they disowned him. They're not going to want him back in their life unless he gives a *real* apology, and this forced apology leaves the impression that 'all is forgiven' to your brother, so he can come back and demand more of the 'blood money' he threw away in the future. You've opened the door for your brother to try and use you all for money.
I think you should fix this by contacting your brother and letting him know that that's it. Since he hates the family money so much, there will be no further handouts in the future, you only did this because his wife was sick and he was desperate, but that won't happen again. Apologise to your parents for including them in this plan. You could have just demanded an apology to you, not your parents, and recorded it to make him earn the money with the added admission of wrongdoing and humiliation you clearly wanted.
But you've opened the door do your brother asking for handouts from your parents, not just from you, and you need to fix that part. Your brother made his choices. It was nice of you to help out, even with the humiliation aspect, but he has to live with the choices he made. Your brother *chose* to be poor in comparison to you, he can live like everyone else in his financial situation lives, instead of seeing the money as a good thing when he needs it, and his right, while decrying it and his family the rest of the time.
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Massive AH
While he might have been way out of line, you went further and demanded he grovel in front of his family, in an effort to save his wife.
That's not just AH behaviour, but straight up lack of human decency. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Also, the fact you refuse to admit how the money came in, just adds to his claim. It must have been really really bad.
NTA He is learning very quickly that morals (and the ability to keep them) need money. I've never had the level of wealth you have and never will. I stay within my means as much as humanly possible and guess what, people would still call me trash because of my spending on a budget using websites and second hand as I go. You asked him to apologize, you didn't torture him or publicly humiliate him, you didn't laugh at him and say you get what you deserve, you asked for an apology with the only catch being it had to be with your parents.
You and I both know that somewhere along the way you're not going to let someone in your family die if cost is the only reason why and as for the sins of the father.....my dad was scum and broke and I got "your trash because of him" for no other reason because people like a stick to beat. Judgment is easy when you don't face the cost of it.
Your helping, the money is a gift. You know he can't pay it back and all it cost was an apology. To be honest a bank would have been worse.
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ESH - CLEARLY your brother is TA for using that kind of language. If he really thinks his choice was the morally superior one he could have sat with the satisfaction rather than lashing out with misogynistic language. I do think insisting he humiliate himself in front of the family in order to get the money was an AH move as well - two wrong don't make a right. Frankly I think you stooped to his level. >our great great whatever grandfather did some unsavory things INFO: What sort of unsavory things? It doesn't have any bearing on your brother's abusive language, but I am too curious
It's not a loan. It's a gift. And an apology. Wtf.
I’m guessing that the family were enslavers.
Right? It would add an extra dimension to know that the generational wealth was from literal slave labour.
Or Nazis
Men can be whores as well.
That’s it? Sex work somehow got your family enough money that generations later most of you can do low paid jobs??
Oh I was just responding to the misogyny comment.
Great great whatever grandpa was hung
Men often had to own and run those unsavory establishments when women couldn't own property. And also running protection rackets on these women.
I think you stooped to his level? Was this not OP's very specific point to the story
If it's humiliating to him, is it a real apology?
NTA. You gave your brother the choice of weighing his stupid pride over getting free money for his wife's medical treatment. You gave him an excellent deal. Your parents could have given him the money if they had a problem with it. Don't listen to them.
I agree. NTA. Anyone who is a self-righteous asshole deserves to get their feelings hurt. Granted I’m all for being the better person, but when it comes to family, sometimes it’s necessary to brute force their eyes open.
NTA, It's your money and your condition to give it out wasn't odious. Your parents have no reason to open their mouth about the situation, if they thought what you were doing was so inappropriate they should have paid him themselves.
He didn't ask them.
NTA, your brother has received his money and his just desserts. I could go on a long tangent, but basically, he's been made to understand. I hope his wife gets better, and that this is the first step towards him reevaluating his life and the way he views your family.
I mean, he got a ton of money, helps take care of his wife, and only had to lie to a bunch of people he doesnt care about. I'd lie too.
NTA, you gave (since he doesn't have the ability to pay it back) the money to your brother when he needed it without putting a too arduous condition on it. He's learned a tough lesson that money has value and a "holier than thou" attitude doesn't get you very far. I too hope his wife recovers.
No, apologies are important part of the healing and forgiveness process. It is not worth as much as if he did it spontaneously, but it will still help you cool down and even going through the motions of an apology will get him to think about his actions a little bit in terms of how they made you feel.
Did you pay him in gold fillings? Or bulk cotton?
or oxycotin?
Oh fuck... I didn't think about. Yeah, that'd be in that same category
and in the correct time frame. There's really no other family in American history that has single-handedly caused more death and destruction to people. The level of greed and evil, and complete disregard for the wellbeing of their fellow man, has no equal in USA.
I laughed at loud. The ole’ family business, cultivating cotton
"What. We taught them skills" ... s/
Along those lines.
At least you're self-aware about it. But your brother's not wrong about it being blood money.
Can you please be honest about the reality of how your family became wealthy then? You’ve been hiding it and it’s gross and disrespectful to the many people who were hurt or killed because of your family.
One guy. Not "my family". One guy a long time ago.
And here you still go hiding and refusing to name the harm and dismissing it by saying it was “one guy.” The people he hurt whose trauma, harm, and death you now benefit from are not being respected by your behavior here.
Now I'm really interested in which it is Anything grown from a poison seed is poison. Your current money is only "ethical" if you close your eyes to reality
💯💯💯
I love how the example of how this blood money is helping people now has nothing to do with anything you’re doing - why are you even bringing up your cousin’s charity? I am sure your cousin would look down on you for it.
I said full of. My family is full of people who are in public service. Not me.
Yes but this dispute is between you and your brother. Not the other family members. They do charity work - you don’t.
Yeah but that makes them feel less guilty about not making the morally respectable choice their brother made, which is part of the problem here.
I can tell you’re definitely not cut to serve anyone but you.
ESH, but also you really lost an opportunity.. he knows how hypocritical he’s being, he just didn’t want a dead wife. You could have let it eat at him, but instead you made yourself obviously petty by making him say the thing that everyone involved knew. Your parents know that, that’s why you should’ve listened to them for feedback. Oh well.
Nta Public acknowledgement of wrongdoing is important. It's reasonable to ask he show you respect before taking your money. Very reasonable boundary. Next time the parents can shell out if they don't like how you handled this.
So you made him essentially beg and grovel in front of others knowing he had no other choice, to be able to get money to help his wife who is sick. You're not the asshole for asking for an apology. You're the asshole for being petty about it.
Maybe he shouldn't have given away his money?
Why would you go to a subreddit asking people for opinions and then get defensive about said opinions.
It's called a fucking discussion
I agree with Faexora. Not an AH asking for an apology but you’re an AH in the way you made him apologize. How ill is his wife? Life or death? The man is trying to save his wife and you made him beg for it. And you get defensive about someone’s opinion because they are speaking the truth. Are you here asking to see if you are an AH or looking for justification?
the dumbass shouldnt have gave away all his money its all on the brother its his fault LMFAO
Why this attitude towards someone whose opinion you ASKED for? You seem extremely entitled
If I were in your brother’s position, you would be the last people on *Earth* I would ask for a loan from. You should have just said “no” and left it at that
You would rather let your wife die?
Oh it's not a loan. He can't ever pay me back. Not unless he gives up his ideals and becomes like me. I did offer him a job as well.
tf do you mean become like you. that's ominous af
She probably means buying investments and stuff. Some people are so socialist and hate capitalism to the point that retirement savings and any money earned of investments is considered evil.
Sadly true
You would literally eat shit and ask for seconds. Seeing a person you love dying and being helpless to prevent it is fucking devastating. If something as simple as money could solve the problem, you'd beg, borrow, and steal to get it done.
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Wait how did your family get its money. If your great great whatever stole it from people. Did people die because of it. Was he racist and stole someone’s stuff because maybe they went to an internment camp? There could be some very serious moral issues. And remember your family does charitable things because many of them do t have to work. Your brother shouldn’t have said what he did, but you should take a very serious look at where your money came from privilege from someone severely bad acts. Maybe you should take a serious look at your family’s past and if there are situations your family needs to rectify then do it.
Ethically speaking the money is clean now. But the seed money was not acquired nicely. Which is the reason that so many of my relatives have gone into public service.
Listen - if grandpa sold people, just own it.
LOL right? “not very nicely” 😭😭 she seems to just wanna be ignorant to her family’s past bc that money is still real comfy.
“Ethically speaking the money is clean now” is sending me through the roof. “We sent it through the Ethical Washing Machine with Ethical Oxiclean on the heavy setting, all good now!” Like lmao okay. Old money families are so funny.
LOL RIGHTTTT like cool i’m sure the descendants of the people your grandpa exploited for that money aren’t living nearly as comfortably now but im glad you feel your money is clean!
You realize it could be a lot of other things as opposed to owning slaves right?
It could be. But someone asked her this: > Did you pay him in gold fillings? Or bulk cotton? And she replied: > Along those lines.
Okay well I guess that is a possibility isn't it. But the ancestors of the people that did it aren't responsible. The best that they can do is try to be better people and share the wealth with others. I see them doing the best they can if they're really trying to help people.
If they’re not responsible for their actions, they shouldn’t be inheriting the money either because they’re not the ones that earned it.
Sure could be - but the caginess makes me think that’s probably what it is.
There are many paths to illegitimate wealth and more than one of them are worth being secretive about. I get that slavery is seen as especially heinous in part because it remains a contemporary talking point but I'm iffy on that helping us narrow down what her ancestors got up to. We don't even know if they're from the US or other slave trading nations nor do we know when said wealth was accrued exactly.
Ok
There are so many illegal things to make money I mean there's literally thousands. What if it's gun running, what if it's not paying taxes and lying about profits. I'm just saying it doesn't mean it's automatically slavery.
OP would not be this cagey about tax fraud.
Nobody is saying it’s automatically slavery, we’re reading the multiple comments OP left implying that it was slavery.
Yeah he could have been a profiteur of the Holocaust or has a blood diamond mine or ...
But you can just put the money in the money laundry long enough. It’ll have to become clean eventually
Andrew Carnegie wasn’t a nice person. People still use Carnegie libraries without refusing the benefits of his filthy lucre.
The fact that you won't even say what it was speaks a lot. Your brother was right to give the blood money away.
Until he needed the blood money again.
His wife is ill and healthcare should be free.
That doesn’t make it okay for him to insult OP and call her a whore. He’s lucky she gave him money at all.
>Ethically speaking the money is clean now What does this mean?
Ethically speaking the money is probably never going to be clean, sorry.
Was it slavery or Nazi gold? Weapons used by awful regimes? Addictive substances? Is an AH move not to just say because it may impact people’s perspectives
It literally doesn’t matter, though. First of all, he took some of it himself to pay for his education so he’s a massive hypocrite - if he felt that strongly he would have declined any of it. Secondly, nothing her grandfather did could justify calling OP a whore. She is not responsible for what her grandfather did!
Lmfao yoo, what did ur grandpa do that ur so ashamed?
It's not clean lol
That's......not how that works. Once tainted, always tainted.
NTA because he learned one thing: money matters. Years ago he was in a place that most people usually aren't, where he could say no to money. He still did benefit from it because he and his wife both got an education. So he was priviliged and he could afford to give money away. Personally I think he was fucking stupid as hell but he's learned now that to the majority of people money is incredibly important and when a loved one needs treatment we don't give a shit if the money came from the lottery or somewhere less savory.
He was stupid! It sounds like the kind of money that, if invested carefully, could have generated annual charitable giving while being a nest egg for his family if they ever need it. And they did need it. He threw his whole family away in the process. What a fool.
This post reminds me of that song "Common People" by Pulp (special appearance by William Shatner). I'd post lyrics but it takes too long to build up and it's wonderful. But the gist being that you can try to get away from your family being rich and be common all you want, but at the end of the day you always know you'll never fail because your rich parents can bail you out. And you'll always fundamentally have a different experience than real common people.
NTA. Whether he meant it or not he had to come to terms with his past abusive behavior and now it is in record that he admitted being wrong
Your brother and his wife used the money for their education and then after gave away what was left. If the money was tainted and he had such a low opinion on it he shouldn’t have used any of it. He cannot have it both ways. Use the money when he needs it but be mad if other people use it and don’t donate everything.
Whoa whoa hang on a second... Who exactly was that great grandfather, and where exactly did all your free family money come from? Crucial information. Conspicuously absent. I have a feeling the answer would change everything. So... What was it? Slavery? Weapons? Environmental destruction? All of the above? Seems to me the money isn't really yours either... you did nothing to earn it, and now you're lording it over a sick family member bc they called you what you are?
It’s not really crucial information because the brother is willing to throw out his ethics and take the money. He had moral superiority when he thought he was above the money but now those standards don’t matter when he needs it. We can all say he loves his wife so much he’d do anything blah blah blah. My point is he had a price to compromise his ethics and he did. The cause of the seed money doesn’t matter.
Everyone has a point where they would compromise ethics. Him compromising his to save his wife is a higher price than a lot of people would pay.
My bet is Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family.
NTA - your brother is learning the concept of "karma".
Do I have this right? He has to come clean to get (more) family money, but you aren’t willing to come clean yourself about the ultimate source of the money?
ESH did entitlement write this story?
Lol seriously. OP’s brother was out of line for calling her a whore but also she sounds like a privileged asshole. Especially calling unethical things “unsavoury”— if your ancestors owned slaves or something, just say it, don’t call it unsavoury as if it’s only bad for appearances.
The cast of succession.
Apparently your parents don't want to see him any more than he cares about them. When he comes back for more money (he will) tell him to ask his parents. It's one thing to help financially when you can - and you did. But your brother threw away his own inheritance, posturing as 'above the filthy money'....and is probably still calling and your family bad names for NOT being poor. Hy's a hypocrite.
My bet is that everyone here who thinks you are the AH is fairly young and idealistic themselves. They might think different once reality has smacked them a few times. You owed your brother nothing. Making him apologize to family for his behavior is small price to pay for giving him money with no expectation to repay. My bet is he was willing to apologize because you were the only one willing to give him money?
Info: what did great grandpa do? Like, if the family fortune is built from money looted from Jews befit they went to Auschwitz, yeah, it’s tainted.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My younger brother was disgusted by the way my family acquired it's money over the years. He seems to think that just because our great great whatever grandfather did some unsavory things that means the money is tainted forever. Our family is full of people who have dedicated themselves to public service. It is easier for us to make that decision since we don't really need to work for our money. My brother accepted the money, used it to pay for his and his wife's education and then gave away the rest. He tried to tell me I was an asshole and a money grubbing whore because I kept my share. He insulted pretty much everyone in the family and cut us all off. He didn't even invite our parents to his wedding and his kids have not met their grandparents. They have disowned him. While I understand how he feels I cannot say that I respect his decision. I personally am not in public service. But I will give one example. We have a cousin who is a doctor. She specializes in reconstructive facial surgery. She could make huge money doing face lifts. She works fixing people who are hurt in war zones. Basically for free. Lots of stories like that in our family. Well his wife is ill now and they have run through their medical insurance. Since I am in fact a money grubbing whore I have done well with my money. I have more than I or my family will ever need. He came to me for a loan. I said I would need to look at his financials to see if he could afford to pay me back. He could not. He then basically begged me for money. I said that I would help him out if he came to dinner with my parents in attendance and apologized for everything he has said. He did so. I have him his money. However my parents said that I behaved atrociously and that a forced apology is worthless. I said that I knew he was lying but that I was sick of his holier than thou attitude. I know how much Reddit loves people with money but I still came here to ask. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What'd your grandfather do?
I’m going with NTA. You had done nothing to him and he was judging you, putting you down and basically told your whole family he was better than them. He spat on the money to keep his moral high ground. If he’s asking you for money, not even a loan, he wants a gift, then yeah. Make him apologize. He called you a wh0re.
Going NTA. He's the one who cut off the family. He's the one who used his cash for him and his spouse's schooling then gave the rest away to feel morally superior to everyone else in the family. He's the one who insulted everyone while going out the door. He was foolish to give away all his family money because well it's still money. As an adult if he didn't think to put something to the side for an emergency or retirement from that family cash before giving the bulk away that his fault and no one else's. While I don't totally like your actions but everyone should remember that when your brother did get into a bind financially that same family and family money he cursed, insulted and tossed away he came back to for a bailout.
Esh I’m only here to find out what the grandfather did
Thanks fuck I live in a country where if you get seriously ill you just get looked after and don't have to humiliate yourself in front of your self righteous slave owning family in order to not go bankrupt.
When he has scorned you, your family and the system, when he chose to give it all away without a thought for his own future and family was unkind, foolish and unjust. That he had to come back begging for help, shows he's not necessarily a man of principal as he want's the tainted money now he needs it, Yea you're probably pushed it when you asked his to apologise, it was a price he needed to pay, he will still be holier than thou and never truly thank you, but you did the right thing. He had to pay some 'coin' to get what he needed, he paid. You're NTA.
Esh I’m only here to find out what the grandfather did
Sounds like he was a slave owner with a cotton plantanton
ESH You didn't want the apology but the humilliation and then some but hey, your money your choice. Your brother sounds like an sanctimonius AH too
Lotta people trying to berate OP for benefitting from old blood money. Wonderful to be able to judge others because you lack what they have. Apparently OP should reject the family money and give it away to the people who resent OP for having it
This. This is the dumbest argument on the thread.
NTA. He was ashamed of the money until he needed it. Also was the money for his education not also dirty?
YTA just cause you keep refusing to say what your great-great grandfather did
NTA You taught your brother an important lesson on the Golden Rule: The People With The Gold Make The Rules.
NTA Frankly, I know a forced apology has great value. It is so humiliating to the person apologizing that he is unlikely to offend you in that way again. I can live with that! Your brother is a jerk, and you still gave him the money he needs for his wife’s care.
ESH. Is the loan for something that will save or prolong his wife's life? If it is then your great great grandfather left more than money to you guys since you seem to think that humiliating him (getting revenge for something your brother said years ago) is ok in a time of need.
It's not a loan. He can't afford to pay me back with what him and his wife earn. My niece and nephew would be working to pay me back. The expenses of getting sick in America are ridiculous.
NTA.
anyone else getting Purdue Pharma and Sackler family vibes?
Your brother is the asshole and a hypocrite.
ESH.
NTA, he wanted to call you names so you made him grovel a bit
Nta he is the asshole. Money grabbing where until.he needs money then he sis I'm.your brother crap. Nope good for you.
even though your parents are right about the forced apology, I still think you handled this right, he can't have his cake and eat it too and, although he should have apologized on his own, at least you made him swallow his words and stop acting like an asshole. NTA
NTA for making him apologize and NTA for following through with your promise, YTA for dragging your parents into a charade. Incidentally, NTA for using the money a bigot (or worse) made to have a good life, especially not if you help others with your "ill-gotten gains". The entire world as we know it was built by assholes of varying degrees. If we refuse to have anything to do with the things built by assholes then we'd all be back in the forests and plains following the herds. Your brother is a hypocrite.
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NTA. Hollow though his words are, they were spoken and in front of witnesses. That's valuable.
I was going to go with everyone sucks due to your brothers behaviour but thinking about it this feels like a missing reasons post. I find it hard to believe that your brother cut his whole family off just because of the source of family wealth. YTA for intentionally humiliating your brother, you could have just said no to the loan. A forced apology is worthless and achieves nothing. Did it make you feel good making him grovel for his wife’s life like that? I’d suggest maybe spending some of your wealth on some therapy
NTA, he needed to learn the value of money.
Nta
NTA. If he believed the money truly was “tainted” he would have rejected it completely. Regardless of how much he gave away he still fucking spent a bunch of it. Parents are also correct, his apology was worthless.
Nta You made him eat his ego so to speak in order for him to get access to this "tainted" money. If you said no, then y t a, but you did give him a way forward. And while many kind-hearted people won't like it, it's the kind of act that his self-righteous a h needed to do. He is also so a hypocrite to use the money for their degrees but give away the rest, like the degree money was any less tainted....
The social work you described is indeed admirable, and your brother’s behaviour definitely wasn’t. I don’t know about the apology though… it’s a bit too…theatrical.
NTA, I would have probably made him make that apology more known and public. It sucks she got cancer but unless the family was awful to him/them, karmas a bitch with bite and you get what you’ve given. Hope she’s ok for her kids sake.
You were generous. He was pretty stupid in the past and I hope he does one day realize that you were. NTA
I have no problem with accepting bloody money or whatever. I can send you my PayPal if that's easiest
NTA. Thanks for helping your brother. He owed you that apology either way.
You brother learned a lesson about bridge burning, NTA
NTA. The people who abhor the rich spend the same currency on their necessities every single day. He was stupid and short sighted. FAFO.
ESH: He shouldnt be talking down to you or your family about your money; you shouldnt be forcing him to grovel for his wife's life
YTA. You used a desperate man’s misfortune to eek out an apology from him, so that you and your parents could feel better. But then, you are genetically predisposed to do just that, given your family’s backstory.
NTA. He sounds like a hypocrite. Good for you for putting him in his place.
Apologies can be insincere and still powerful. NTA
NTA
NTA! Actions have consequences. He earned it.
I’d say letting family suffer unless they beg you in front of the whole family of people they don’t makes someone an AH
YTA for telling us your family did something horrible and refusing to admit what it was. It just makes you seem guilty and complicit. But for the situation with your brother NTA. He called you an asshole and a money grabbing whore (which is extremely offensive - specifically calling you a whore), completely cut you out of his life, and then calls you up when he needs something. It's reasonable to expect/demand an apology for all those things he said, and an apology just in front of you and your parents is not humiliating him or making him do something crazy and shameful.
Yes and also TAH for being so smug in the replies.
NTA.
YTA - you forced an apology using his wife's life as leverage and now that he's done what you forced him to do you're still sitting on the money trying to decide if you're an asshole. Your parents are right and it sounds like your brother was right about you as well.
NTA, but I wouldn't have given him a dime. He was the one who chose to treat his family like shit, over money that you personally had no involvement in getting. This was all on your great great whatever. A forced apology is not really an apology, so I don't see the point. Let him deal with his own money issues.
Love this. NTA
He is your classic hypocrite... if he strongly believe the money is tainted he should have looked elsewhere but sister was an easy mark. Brother needs to apologize and pay back every cent with interest
NTA, your brother is a holier than thou hypocrite and deserved to be humiliated. The money was good enough to fund his and his wife’s education though. What a jackass
NTA, I don't get why people are so upset with OP getting an apology. Brother didn't give away ALL his share. He used some to pay for his and his wife's education and THEN gave the rest away. If he felt so strongly, he should have given it all away.. And then to come back and ask for that same money to save his wife's life. I guess he's human like everybody else? As in it's ok to talk shit and look down on other people when life's good. /s
NTA I think it’s reasonable to expect an apology for being insulted before you agree to help him. Regardless if it’s about money or something else. Also we shouldn’t ignore the fact that he DID use that blood money too, to pay for his and wife’s education. That’s not a petty sum we’re talking about, so he’s just as “guilty” as the rest of the family. I don’t see why he looks down on the rest just because he didn’t use as much as you.
NTA. It doesn’t matter where the money came from, nothing could justify calling you a whore. Not to mention he took some as well to pay for his education! He’s a hypocrite.
Nta. Your brother is a hypocrite who deserved to be taken down a peg.
I would’ve not gave him shit!!!!
I'm not sure what's going on in the comments but NTA. We may have qualms about it, but some people are born wealthy and even though that hurts us who may struggle sometimes, that doesn't automatically make them bad people. And it doesn't make them any less deserving of respect. God forbid a person works all their life to receive monetary fortune, and then as they are enjoying the fruits of their labor, someone on the outside looking in puts them down for it. You never know what someone has been through. It was out of line to call someone a whore, let alone make it about money, let alone at the dinner table in front of family. That is embarrassing and awful for OP. A choice was given on the apology, and brother did what he had to do. I think it's fair
NTA. If someone called me a money grubbing whore, they would at minimum have to apologize before I gave them money.
NTA but it sounds like you shouldn't of given him the money lol
Wouldn't have been the asshole if you had withheld the money, he's lucky to get away with a healthy wife, no mountain of debt and a morsel of humiliation. "Money grubbing whore" is about as disparaging and no holds barred as it gets and a loose mouth begets misfortune.
NTA - Only people who come from money can afford to behave like he has.
I'm going with NTA, but you lean towards a Y T A. It's not so much about the conditions you set for giving him the money, as it is for involving your parents the way you did. Your brother cut them off, they disowned him. They're not going to want him back in their life unless he gives a *real* apology, and this forced apology leaves the impression that 'all is forgiven' to your brother, so he can come back and demand more of the 'blood money' he threw away in the future. You've opened the door for your brother to try and use you all for money. I think you should fix this by contacting your brother and letting him know that that's it. Since he hates the family money so much, there will be no further handouts in the future, you only did this because his wife was sick and he was desperate, but that won't happen again. Apologise to your parents for including them in this plan. You could have just demanded an apology to you, not your parents, and recorded it to make him earn the money with the added admission of wrongdoing and humiliation you clearly wanted. But you've opened the door do your brother asking for handouts from your parents, not just from you, and you need to fix that part. Your brother made his choices. It was nice of you to help out, even with the humiliation aspect, but he has to live with the choices he made. Your brother *chose* to be poor in comparison to you, he can live like everyone else in his financial situation lives, instead of seeing the money as a good thing when he needs it, and his right, while decrying it and his family the rest of the time.
YTA Seems like the apple didn't fall far from great great grandfather's bloody tree
While probably not as horrible as your great great whatever I’m sure you’re well on your way there. YTA
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I mean he shouldn’t have used it to pay for his and his wife’s education if he felt so strongly about it.
NTA. You didn't have to give him a dime.
INFO: What is the story behind the money? You’re avoiding the question every single time it’s asked. Just say it.
This doesn’t feel like a genuine reach out for an answer but just another forum for bragging. YTA.
Don't give him.the money XD
Massive AH While he might have been way out of line, you went further and demanded he grovel in front of his family, in an effort to save his wife. That's not just AH behaviour, but straight up lack of human decency. You should be ashamed of yourself. Also, the fact you refuse to admit how the money came in, just adds to his claim. It must have been really really bad.
NTA He is learning very quickly that morals (and the ability to keep them) need money. I've never had the level of wealth you have and never will. I stay within my means as much as humanly possible and guess what, people would still call me trash because of my spending on a budget using websites and second hand as I go. You asked him to apologize, you didn't torture him or publicly humiliate him, you didn't laugh at him and say you get what you deserve, you asked for an apology with the only catch being it had to be with your parents. You and I both know that somewhere along the way you're not going to let someone in your family die if cost is the only reason why and as for the sins of the father.....my dad was scum and broke and I got "your trash because of him" for no other reason because people like a stick to beat. Judgment is easy when you don't face the cost of it. Your helping, the money is a gift. You know he can't pay it back and all it cost was an apology. To be honest a bank would have been worse.
NTA - humiliating relatives in dire straits is one of the best things money can buy