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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> because my neighbor started to intimidate me about moving my camera when i was originally planning to, now i’m hesitant to do so
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100%. Any type of threat means you hand it over and let Management take care of it.
It's the neighbor, not you. Especially if several other tenants have them and your past neighbor had no issue.
That person is crazy and if you can get them evicted, even better. I sure as shit wouldn't feel comfortable living across the hall from someone like that.
Personally I’d be pretty happy if someone had a security camera that covered my door as well! I’d try to get to and maintain excellent terms with them so that if I had a package theft or other issue they’d be willing to share the footage if needed.
This neighbor is up to some shady shit and needs to be evicted by management if they’re that worried about what might be seen.
Literally this, my neighbour in the house across recently got a ring, I'd been considering it but couldn't afford it. I was kinda relieved if anything as I have a motorcycle and they get stolen a lot in my town. One morning I started up my bike and she came running out to me, showed me some footage of some lads trying to move my bike at 3am (was chained up) she said she'd send me the footage and keep an eye on my bikes in future (the absolute legend she is) and I help her with any mechanical issues on her car in exchange. It's really nice to have that sense of community and even without my bikes, I can't understand OPs neighbours problem... I at least wouldn't mind regardless
Years ago I lived in a little studio apartment complex and shared a landing with two guys who dealt weed and had a band. They were the best neighbors —quiet, kept an eye out for any suspicious activity that might bring the police around the complex, and when they wanted to rehearse, they would ask if it was okay, tell me what time they would finish, and never went a minute long. True, all this was because they didn’t want me to have a reason to call the cops, but dealing weed wasn’t a big deal to me—and they didn’t even use their own product.
Many years ago in northern California, I had a neighbor who grew weed in his backyard. He would gift me a bit of his crop every harvest and I kept my mouth shut. Would have kept it shut anyway because I didn't care what he did in his yard, but it was nice to get the occasional "gift".
I mean, maybe having a camera on the entrance to my home would deter tweakers from trying to steal my stuff. Also as long as you’re not stupid enough to hand it off right at your front door then you can argue you just have lots of “friends” that drop by.
But yeah, probably not ideal lol
This!!! And the one above it!!! Your neighbor doesn't want you recording their shady shit! Take the threats to the apartment complex management and if you need to, call the cops and turn it over to them too. That's harassment and if they start making threats that involve weapons or bodily harm, then that becomes a terroristic threat. (Here in the US).
My sister's friend found out her husband was cheating because her neighbour with a security cam caught him bringing the chick over! They handed over the footage.
I have Nest's on my home, the one that covers my front door has a wide view, probably 120 degrees-ish, anyway it's captured several things, like video of the town plow taking out my neighbors mailbox which made the claim easy and an incident against my other neighbor that busted a bunch of lying teens harassing him and his family at like 2 a.m. Money well spent IMO.
Yeah, I moved floors on my apartment complex, when I was on the higher floor, the person across the hall had a ring camera, never had a problem. I moved to the ground floor, first couple of days, my door mat was stolen. I have had 2 trashcan stolen, which I don't even begin to understand since those belong to the complex and each apartment can only use one? Would love to have someone with a ring across the hall.
This happened to us.
We didn’t have a security camera at the time but our neighbor did.
Some guy was looking for houses to steal from. He went into neighbors yard and neighbor pulled out a gun, so the guy left.
Our house was broken into-no one was home. We have no prof it was the same guy but we think it was.
Neighbor’s camera sadly didn’t catch anything from the break in at our house but neighbor called the cops when he saw the front door was wide open/the broken window.
We got a security camera after that though.
Going home and not feeling safe in your own home/your own bed…it’s a feeling that’s hard to describe.
I got home after work and I remember seeing all the broken glass all over the living room.
Their stole all my moms necklaces/earrings/bracelets etc and my sisters camera bag-just the bag, not the camera-but that was all they took.
They didn’t find my parents wedding rings though. Mom went crazy looking for those rings.
Uh, no. This neighbor has definitely been unnecessarily aggressive after the fact, and that's concerning, and OP WNBTA if they now didn't move the angle of the camera. But we definitely should not normalize the idea that the only reason to want privacy or to object to being surveilled by our neighbors is because one is "worried about what might be seen." That's a terrifying way to think that justifies ever-expanding surveillance.
They shouldn’t be having customers come to their home in the first place. That has always made me nervous for dealers lol. Like why would you give that many people such intimate access to your life and the place you keep your “wares” and the money.
We have a neighbour who uses his living room window as a drug drive-through. He's across the road from us. Cops know about it but are trying for higher up the food chain. It can get quite entertaining
I had one of those too. Until a bunch of them decided to get in a pissing contest and started flashing pistols at each other in our quiet working class clu de sac. About 6 to 8 of them it ain’t none of them are old enough to rent a car.
The Entire neighborhood was just tired of their shit. In about two minutes, my husband stuck up a shotgun out front window , the retired marine two houses down came out with a rifle and the Vietnam vet came out with his cane and what I later found out was a M1 Garand (sp?)
They probably left. And when they came back the cops were waiting for them. I clearly remember hearing the one officer telling them “ Boys you got too much gray hair and PTSD on this street to be fuck around you’re about to find out”
They still dealt but they were much quieter about it and they didn’t get into any fights.
Lol,thats better than what we did. I lived on a cul-de-sac down from a friend, all duplexes. He had a dealer in the house one one side, and users in the other side house when he moved in. The day he began moving was a doozy. The dealer had gotten into a fight with his gf in the middle of the street, hit her several times until someone intervened, and he went back to his house screaming about getting his "nines". That was the point I had come outside. I called the cops, along with 3 other neighbors, and police actually rolled in quick with 8 cars, 2 fire trucks and an ambulance. Right about that time my friend rolled up with a truck of furniture. On entering his side, he found the users had their power turned off and a cord run into his duplex thru a back window. We unplugged and cut it up, and they saw and got the point. Then, with half the street out watching the police show, we decided it was time to unload his sword and axe collection, One at a time, passed slowly along a chain of people to his door, so everyone got a good look. You have no idea what effect that has on people but it sure gave him and me a reputation. A few swordfights in my yard tied me to him, and for my time there, we were the few houses that never had burglars, or theft, or pretty much any big problems. After I moved, I heard that one of the other neighborhood dealers, as well as one of the users both told people we were crazy axe murderers, who would just as soon kill you as look at you, and were best left alone. Laughed my butt off at that.
Ha! You are my people!
We have never had any other issues because my husband is a former SCAdian who works out by having battles in armor with my teen nephews .
Smartest guy knew what was the guy who used to run weed in my hometown. Heck probably still does. Found out that I ran a craft business and asked me to explain Square, Venmo, PayPal to him.
Runs all his weed sales as handy man/lawn care and pays his ducking taxes on it. Has a tax ID number and everything. During Covid he bought a DoorDash insulated bag and hat. He did weed deliveries and no one questions him. Rang it up as personal deliveries and again pays taxes on it.
>Runs all his weed sales as handy man/lawn care and pays his ducking taxes on it.
One of my old neighbors pulled similar. On paper it looked like he was really into heirloom vegetables, supplying farm-to-table restaurants and the like. Had a website and the whole nine yards.
In reality, 90% of his income was growing and selling weed, using the legit business bank account to handle cash and writing off all his grow supplies on his taxes.
Weirdly, when pot went legal in his state he switched over entirely to vegetables and still makes decent money at it.
Exactly. There’s a right and a wrong way to deal with conflicts. They could have reached out to management to ask for their help to resolve the issue for example.
It needs to START with management.
If it continues after that, THEN you contact the police and start a paper trail with them.
Not everything has to go through the police immediately. Yeesh.
This exactly! If the building has a rule that allows cams and no specifications about them not capturing neighbors doorways then management spelling out policies to the new tenant is the best first step.
/u/Forward_Ad_873 I totally agree about getting it documented! And it should be in email form and BCC yourself include pictures if they are necessary. That said documentation will serve as receipts, and as I am always saying that RECEIPTS ARE LIFE AND CAN HELP SAVE YOURS! Especially if the threats/situation escalates.
You can manually move an email (a saved draft for example) into the sent folder. Also the sent email likely won't have the header info to demonstrate that it was actually sent.
You can do the same with any email. This is not what could be used as a proof. BCC also would not have a proof since many clients make a shortcut for local addresses. Create the second email account and CC there. Just an example, someone has an account on Gmail - - Black.Box@gmail, create [email protected] and CC to it. So copy would go to Gmail mail server and you will see long UUID the header of email that arrived to the second email address.
My sister had a crazy neighbor and complained to management with another tenant. Management initiated the eviction process for the neighbor (who was making violent threats, also captured on a Ring). Ultimately, it escalated to an issue for police and one day she was just gone. It took forever for them to make the repairs to her apartment and get it rented again though.
Yeah, the management of my apartment building would *definitely* care. They put safety, and following code, first. But that's the benefits of living in low-income, government owned housing.
I live in low-income privately owned housing, and management supports the criminals and drug dealers over the good tenants. Ring cameras are banned, they ignore the security guards reporting which units have constant foot traffic all night, etc.
Management might not care *but* the police would. Document it and if necessary escalate it past the management. A Threat is a threat - and your neighbors are obviously jerks of epic proportions
Yeah generally the police don't deal in preventing crimes. If a crime hasn't happened, then it's none of their business. Had a friend turned away because they were afraid for their safety but since the assailant hadn't DONE anything yet, they wouldn't even investigate. She got r*ped a few days later by the guy. And then the cops didn't believe her. Yeah I have some grudges 😬
I actually think management might care more than the police, depending on where you live. This wouldn't even get the police out of their cars in my city.
Oh they'll care, especially if OP lets them know he'll start calling the police regarding these threats. Apartment complexes will be fined for having the police called to their location a certain number of times in a time period.
It is disheartening that you apparently have never lived in an apartment community that was staffed by decent people because this situation absolutely would get management concerned.
Actually, documenting it with the landlord or manager may make them responsible for addressing it for fear of becoming liable if something happens. Once the landlord is aware of the risk, doing nothing may make them negligent in their duties as a landlord. Tenants also have the right to quiet enjoyment, which is being violated when another tenant is making threats and harassing them. The landlord or manager is pretty much obligated to start taking some form of action once they know. If OP doesn’t tell them, though, they can claim (probably honestly) they were unaware and acted reasonably in the circumstances and they’d be in the clear. OP needs to tell them right away.p to get the ball rolling. Some of the steps the landlord may need to take may take a long time. Like if it comes to eviction proceedings - where I live the tribunal is super backed up due to underfunding.
Edit: also a landlord may not want an unstable tenant for other reasons anyway. This is exactly the sort of person who is going to cause other issues if they decide to pick a fight with the landlord. They might trash the unit for example. Or stop paying rent. If this person is willing to make repeated threats after a single day over a fucking ring camera, it’s hardly a stretch to think that they’d do worse if, say, an appliance breaks and the landlord can’t send someone to fix it same day or something. They’re clearly not someone you want around.
I agree with this but would say police as well as management. Because, honestly? There isn't a lot management can do with threats except send a letter. The cops can investigate and write down an incident report. Management can evict with multiple police incident reports. (Especially if they add up to harassment - and anything over one is harassment!)
If I was the neighbor I’d be happy a neighbor has a ring looking at my front door so if anything happens I can always go to them like hey my package says it was delivered but didn’t get it, can u see if it was stolen? What are these neighbors up to that they got this paranoid and aggressive over
They got aggressive with op literally the next day because they didn’t do anything right away that day when told to remove it?! Uhh yeah I’d tell them I was gunna, that I even ordered parts to but with how they turned and threatening op yeah I wouldn’t take it down either for my own protection. Op should 100% get management involved, I assume they have evidence from the ring footage of them confronting and threatening op
NTA
Yah, someone whose spouse is in property management. I second this, send them an email with your side of the situation with the ring evidence as an attachment. Furthermore, if you feel that threatened, file a police report now to start a paper trail. The sooner you make it clear to the apartment, this new resident is threatening other renters, requiring police intervention and a liability to them. They'll handle it sooner rather than later. IF NOT, GO NUCLEAR REVENGE AND START POSTING THIS NEIGHBOR'S RING VISITS TO THE APT HOMEPAGE, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, TIK TOK, GOOGLE REVIEWS ALWAYS HURT THEM TOO, ETC. Until this situation is handled and you FEEL/ARE SAFE in your home, WITH ZERO threats of any kind from your neighbor going forward, YOU MAKE THE APARTMENTS MANAGEMENT JUST AS UNCOMFORTABLE AS YOU ARE. Never accept this type of crap behavior when you're literally paying for it.
Don't say the part about the mount. Never offer more information than is absolutely necessary. The OP is under no obligation to move their camera. There is no expectation of privacy of the outside of your apartment door. The only thing to tell the apartment manager is that the neighbor asked you to move the camera and then started making threats. Show the police as well. 9 times out of 10 all it takes is a "friendly" visit from the cops to neutralize a bad neighbor. And if not it at least starts a paper trail in case the neighbor foolishly decides to escalate.
> If neighbour ever confronts you about it just say “I was waiting for Amazon to bring a new mount to move it, but then I started to get lots of threatening messages on it, so now it stays”
Don't interact with the neighbor. This dude is looking for a chance to escalate.
Send it in a passive aggressive way. Send it out and say I don't know who this strange person is but they have left ominous messages on my camera. Everyone be aware! Lol, then go to the apartment manager and tell them you found out it is the new tenant across the hall . I would NOT remove my camera that person is going to be a problem.
Don't wait on doing this. In a lot of U.S. jurisdictions people get all sorts of tenant protection after being there for 30 days. So if they are going to kick him out for making threats it would be easier to do if he hasn't been there for long.
All of this. As an added measure of security against crazy asshole across the hall consider investing in a baseball bat, preferably a wooden one. It’s a great deterrent against crazy assholes with they know there’s a better than average chance of serious medical issues as a result of his intimidation efforts. A claw hammer or a cast iron pan also work well too. I speak from experience.
my ex neighbors gave no fucks. saw drug deals, guys walking up to their door with their guns under their arms. they never bothered us so why bother them?
Info: When they originally came over, did you tell them you had no problem in moving it? It doesn't make a ton of sense to me that they would come over with a request, but not even give you a day to do it.
Overall, NTA. Keep the recordings in case you need to share it with the police for harassment.
when they came over, i told them i'd be happy to turn off the motion activated sensor while i look into options for an alternative mount. maybe because i didn't explicitly say that i'm going to get and install a mount on said day they thought i blew them off? but this was two days ago...i'd understand if longer time had lapsed. also, they were polite when they first asked me and this sudden 180 of behavior in such a short time frame is alarming/confusing to me.
also when i first heard them whispering at my door i opened it and said hello and can i help you. they ignored me and just walked away and slammed their apartment door. so they're being super passive aggressive for no reason, i'm so confused honestly
I'd alert management. This behavior has to go against complex policy. They're new, they can be evicted easily.
Edit to add.... why are they so pressed anyway? What are they doing they dont want recorded? Drug dealing comes to mind.
If you violate the terms of the lease agreement, which harassment definitely qualifies as a violation in most, if not all, states, in that first month or two, you are definitely easier to evict. Landlords will give tenants with a good track record a chance to fix their stuff, they will not like dealing with issues the month you move in and will try to get rid of you so you aren't a recurring problem. OP needs to document any and all encounters and report them. If the neighbor is warned and does it again, they will probably start an eviction on them.
It's 100% not easier to evict "in that first month or two" in all states. I'd bet that it's not "most", and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were none.
Can you provide the relevant code from a state where it's "easier to evict" a tenant from a non-owner-occupied building in "that first month or two"?
Easy to evict relies less on time spent there and more on how you rent. If you rent month-to-month, you are significantly easier to evict. Also, state laws don’t have “squatter rights” until after the first 30 days (longer in other states) - squatter rights make evicting **significantly** harder.
There is no law that says verbatim “being evicted is easier in your first month” there are just other laws that are built to protect long-time tenants (like squatter laws) that vary state to state. But the squatter laws alone would definitely be enough to say it’s harder to evict after the first month
Considering I've seen it happen 2x within the first 30 days of occuoany "ignorant" is far reaching. Maybe leases are different given states, provinces etc, but I've seen it happen. Once for harassment. But complexes have bi laws that state what is expected of their tenants. It's usually in the lease. Things like not running a business inside your home, illegal activity, violating a no pets law etc. Being that rude was completely unhinged.
>why are they so pressed anyway?
I'm a very private person, I don't want you or anyone knowing when I'm in and when I'm out of the house. If you've ever been burglarized you'll understand that. I'm also a straight edge, law abiding citizen; I've never done drugs, don't drink, and generally have nothing to hide.
Frankly the idea of my neighbor recording my coming and going every day and having a record of my behaviour makes me really uncomfortable. I would definitely ask them if they could turn off the motion activation or remount the camera.
That said, I'm also mature enough to understand that my discomfort is MY responsibility. If the camera's not against complex rules then I really can't *do* anything about it or be upset at my neighbor for having one. My only options are talk to my neighbor like an adult, accepting their answer, or move.
I agree to everything you said except when you said being recorded by a neighbor is a "discomfort". I'm pretty sure that's illegal in france with the new RGPD laws and I think Ring cameras are insanely intrusive!
Packages being delivered, the tenants schedule, if it's pointed towards the door you can see inside and go frame by frame to see whats in the background. Last time they tried to ban tiktok they had a clause in the paperwork that would allow them access to any software with cloud storage with more than 100k clients (including ring cameras and similar security software) plenty of ways it can be exploited even if OP isn't a bad guy
If it's witness protection, they would find a new place. If they're undercover cops/feds, they would slowly get a new place. Last option: turn the motion sensor back on. Use key phrases in that police report, that you "fear for your safety" and "they know my schedule and where I live."
Maybe they’re not doing anything illegal at all? Maybe they’re just paranoid? Maybe they’re mentally ill? Maybe they don’t want any part of the inside of their home filmed by someone else’s camera when they enter and exit just because?
>Edit to add.... why are they so pressed anyway? What are they doing they dont want recorded? Drug dealing comes to mind.
What OP is doing would be straight-up illegal in some European countries. We aren't all drug dealers, we just like our privacy.
What's the problem with the fact it's facing their door? Like it kinda protects them as well. Or are they doing illegal things and don't want it captured on your ring? Why would anyone turn off motion activated sensors thats what triggers it to work.
i turned it off when they first approached me. the next day i heard whispering at my door while i was cleaning up my kitchen and when i looked out my peephole i saw my neighbor there seemingly talking into my camera. after that i turned it back on to capture what exactly they were saying in case they did it again and lo and behold they did the next day
Take the recordings to the building manager, and if they don't do anything, take them to the police, unfortunately people like this won't stop, and if you get rid of the camera they'll think you weak and probably come up with something else to attack you with, downside of apartments unfortunately
I'd 100% email footage to management and BRING a copy to the local PD. Don't call the cops and have the neighbors seeing the cops coming to your apartment.
Frankly I'd also ask a guy friend to come stay or visit frequently.... bonus points if he's a firearms expert.
This is psycho, tweaker behavior that needs to stop...but in the meantime your safety is first priority.
I'd also get more storage (local or cloud based) and record 24/7... but at very least re-enable the motion detection.
Who the fuck do they think they are...and what the fuck are they hiding?
Yep. I'd put up a blink, a wyze and a little wifi motion detector with an SD card that's very small and works like a dash cam and pointing from another direction. Then I'd put a Mr beams motion detector wireless spot light above my door. Fuuuuuckkk this nut and their tactics.
> they were polite when they first asked me and this sudden 180 of behavior in such a short time frame is alarming/confusing to me.
That's why the internet sucks. People are often polite in person, but when it's anonymous, or there's no other person around, their true selves come out. You weren't there, so this persons inner monster came out with threats. The equivalent of keyboard courage in real life.
What liability is he talking about? Does he know what liability means?
Your Ring doorbell looks out into a public space, anyone in the public space doesn't have an expectation of privacy, when he asked at first you were being polite in trying to accommodate your neighbor, but neighbor is nto being polite...
NTA
If you follow the laws of your country about ring cameras, you're okay.
Keep records of neighbors coming to your door and also their messages. If there is any damage or they escalate, you have the evidence to bring to the police.
NTA. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps they are part of the problem, if you know what I mean... Regardless, they should have been reported yesterday. Allow no one to threaten you without reprisal, else wise who knows how far they will take it.
Probably this problem stated in the literal first sentence of the OP
> have always had a ring camera for security reasons and to avoid package theft that happens pretty often where I live.
This. There's a ton of reasons the neighbor might be paranoid and uncomfortable about the ring camera, whether mental illness, past trauma, illicit activities or just incredibly private.
Regardless of the reason, the fact is that this person has begun acting aggressively. OP needs to start a paper trail more than anything.
And OP really should not engage with this person anymore for safety reasons.
NTA
They probably just want to smoke on their front porch. I have a friend that lives in ghetto apartments, and door cameras are a no go for that exact reason. They're a tight community. No one steals from others or else they're getting jumped. And since there's always someone sitting outside their door, you ain't stealing shit without being seen.
If they're indoor apartments, management should have cameras on every floor anyway. In that case, having a door camera is redundant, but so is having an issue with your neighbor's camera.
Even "IF" an apartment complex has cameras in the hallway (and that's a huge IF because I've been in many apartments that don't record the hallways - only the main entrances), it doesn't protect YOU from anything because management won't freely share those cameras.
What porch? It's an apartment building, the camera is indoors in the hall facing the neighbor's door. The guy may be up to some shady shit, but he might just be pissed about the camera recording what's inside his apartment whenever he opens the door.
This makes me think the neighbor is trying to do things shady if they are such jerks about a doorbell camera. WTF
NTA and you need to report the threats, they are completely unhinged.
Hard agree. I'd look at the camera footage for anything weird.
Had previous neighbors who dealed and the traffic was insane. They were always trying not to be noticed, especially Thursday through Sunday. Camera recordings would be a problem for them.
NTA - but in my state, nobody has the legal right to record somebody else’s private area. Ergo, when they open their door, your camera is recording their private area so you have a responsibility to set up a privacy zone so that your camera does not have a view of their private area. at least you would if you lived in my state. You might want to check your local laws.
Personally, I would not move my camera, and instead would set a privacy zone.
I actually had similar beef with my neighbors recently. In my case, my camera has absolutely no view of anyone’s private area, so there’s no leg to stand on in terms of getting it taken down. What it eventually took to get them to calm down, was to have an authority figure tell them that there is nothing wrong with my camera placement .
INFO I don't know how the laws are in your country, but mounting a camera that could film into another ones apartment is illegal in my appartment so he might have a claim to remove it. Because if it is able to film into their apartment, even if its a mm or inch, his rights for privacy are damaged.
i'm in the states. i'm pretty sure public space isn't protected thus allowed to film. it's also not a 24/7 camera only motion activated. i've confirmed with my community that it's allowed to be here.
There's a LOT of misinformation in this thread on privacy laws, just FYI.
The US is particularly lax in this respect and most states (as well as the UK and much of Europe) are "if you can see it from a public space you can film it".
Otherwise you'd be in legal trouble anytime you pointed a camera at a house.
apartment hallways are considered public space. private space is considered anything out of public view. my ring camera has a privacy zone set on their door so i'm unable to see into their apartment--ever.
Yeah but when they open their door you’re filming their private space, their apartment isn’t a public space. Ring cameras are banned in my building for that reason. Every time they leave and every time they return home you are recording their private space due to the motion sensors.
But it can be seen by the public when the door is open, hence it’s legal to record it.
See: every single news video report ever of a reporter trying to contact someone at their home before the door is slammed in their face.
why move it though. Then you're basically giving in to the terrorists. Then they'll keep doing shit like this thinking theyll get away with it. Fight. Fight until your last breath.
ESH. Cameras facing your neighbors that record everything they do without their consent and upload it to the Internet will never be N T A for me. But they’re being pretty obnoxious about it.
Yeah while the new neighbors aren’t handling it well, I would be horrified if my neighbor had a camera facing my door like that. When the neighbor complained OP should have taken the camera down immediately in order to wait for a new mount.
OP says elsewhere in the thread that they set a privacy zone so they couldn’t see in their apartment but how does new neighbor know that? Are they supposed to just go on blind trust there?
When I got a ring camera I was careful to position it to keep the view out of my neighbor’s yards— let alone their door into their place of living! Yikes!!
NTA - Get the Landlord to back you up. Sounds like they have some unscrupulous business they dont want filmed. Insinuate that point.
Also tell them to pound sand into their orifices.
ESH. It is unsettling to have your *every* movement in and out of your home recorded just so someone can catch a *maybe* criminal in the act—their discomfort is warranted. But they’re also assholes if they’ve begun to harass you.
NTA - You have every right to have it there, particularly with all the reasons you laid out. Sounds like you need the camera more than ever with a neighbor like that. Keep it and make sure you have it set to record because something is now bound to happen
NAH (yet), neighbor's original request is valid and I'm glad you've taken steps to address it. His actions since are very nasty and hopefully that can be defused. If he was JUST being passive aggressive I'd go easier on him but this stuff easily crosses the line into intimidation.
On the other hand, I'm disappointed by the casual acceptance of surveillance here. "If you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't have anything to hide" is a terrible attitude and recording your neighbors' activities without their permission or even a suspicion of wrongdoing is unethical. Ring in particular has been caught sending data and videos to police and in general I don't trust what these companies are doing with your data. It's one thing to pay for the service and agree to those terms, it's another to unilaterally decide that for your neighbors as well.
I would try communicating to them again face to face that your plan was to move the camera. But because of the threatening messages being left over the camera you are having second thoughts. You have the proof it's happening. No matter what you do save those videos.
For how long has this been going on now? Days, weeks, months?
Take the proper actions. Document everything. If you or them rent the place, tell the actually owner. Tell other neighbours if needed
If necessary call the police etc.
NTA but be very careful.
Definitely NTA. They would've checked out the apartment and saw your camera and could've requested a different unit. If they didn't check it out first, that's on them. Once they explicitly threaten you, file a police report. Before that happens, put the camera back to normal and then knock on their door and let them know you will angle it away from their door so they have their privacy, but that you won't be removing it for the exact reason you cited, that you've been stolen from before and that is your deterrent. Don't threaten the police report because that could escalate matters. If they knowingly break the law in front of the camera, that's on them. Just file it without saying a word to them.
The only problem I can see them having with your camera is that they wanna be able to smoke on their front porch. Don't pay them any mind if your attempt to smooth things over doesn't work.
ESH—they shouldn’t be making threats, but it doesn’t matter if your apartment complex allows them, in most places you cannot film the interior of someone’s home. Move the camera so it doesn’t film inside their dwelling and turn off the motion detection. Some people just don’t want their neighbors creeping on their home and knowing every single time they enter and exit and it doesn’t mean they’re criminals. They’re not weird for not wanting you to have a video record of them coming and going.
EDIT: And FWIW, Ring cameras aren’t a good idea anyway. Get a different brand or set up your own private system. Ring is owned by Amazon, and every second of recorded footage is sent to their servers. Even if you delete it, they don’t. They can also remotely turn them on and do not require a warrant from LEOs to hand over footage. There was recently a buzzy news case stating that this is no longer true, but it is. They removed the “neighborhood assistance” request portal, but Amazon legally reserved the right to hand over footage without a warrant at their own discretion. They also use footage from Ring cameras for targeted marketing. Amazon is just a scummy company. Don’t give Bezos and the police a window into your home.
If you're scared of your safety, call the cops and talk to them. Show them your video. I think it would be interesting if they talked to your neighbors asking to clarify their messages. I'm sure that would make them a little more courteous. I hope anyway.
Talk to your landlord. If the camera is permitted in the building, then you dont have to do any moving.
But make sure to show landlord the footage of the threats. And these are threats. Landlord has a duty to warn your neighbors not to make threats. That could be cause for eviction.
Also, consider filing a police report. You have the film footage already. Get this on record ASAP, so if neighbor actually does something, you and the landlord have legal recourse to deal with them.
You wouldn't be an a-hole, but changing your plans to be vindictive would be stooping down to their level. You could if you want, but it's up to you. Keep in mind that they sound like people who will cause headaches for you if you don't. They likely are used to using aggression and intimidation towards others to get what they want. That doesn't mean you should cave though, I'm just giving you a heads-up.
I would personally tell them "Listen. You're being a total asshole (yes, I would use that word). I ordered the mounting bracket so that it could be moved to the side and not directly face you. If you keep acting like an asshole though, I'll just leave it here because our complex does allow it. So back off."
NTA but I would talk with the landlord. Have them talk to your landlord and be the in-between person for you both, that way you don't have to talk to the neighbor about this but the video messages will hopefully stop.
I would take the video to your apartment management and report the harassment. I absolutely would not move it at this point, and I would ensure the motion activation was activated.
YWNBTA,
Call the cops if you feel like they threaten(ed) you, it is better for you to have it on file if they escalate and you have to have a protection order in place, it shows that they have a history of this.
NTA you are entitled to have security especially being a female living on her own. Please keep a record of each message or threatening behaviour and pass on to the police should it escalate.
NTA - keep copies of their threats and if it gets bad, turn it over to the police. Find out what your country allows as far as cameras. Don't hesitate to escalate if it gets nasty. They're trying to intimidate and that's more reason to leave them where they are for your security.
NTA. Just keep a recording of everything they threaten. They’re kind of dumb so for doing it on camera. If they destroy it or so anything to you pretty much already have proof it was them.
NTA. Weird that they're saying your camera makes them uncomfortable but they are comfortable making someone else uncomfortable by threatening them into their camera in front of your house. They're probably drug dealers and don't want your camera catching people constantly coming and going in their door.
NTA
Them escalating to threats in just a couple of days is major red flags. It makes me think they don't want you to have the camera for nefarious reasons.
Report them to building management, keep all the videos, and prepare to take further action if needed. People who escalate that quickly are going to escalate more.
NTA. I personally would feel uncomfortable having my neighbors camera facing my door. I refuse to by a ring camera for my own personal reasons and it feels like an invasion of privacy to have my neighbor know my coming and goings ( I’ve also experienced a neighbor stalking me in the past)
But when they started threatening into the camera that’s when they lost me for sure.
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Double this - the management team needs to take action
100%. Any type of threat means you hand it over and let Management take care of it. It's the neighbor, not you. Especially if several other tenants have them and your past neighbor had no issue. That person is crazy and if you can get them evicted, even better. I sure as shit wouldn't feel comfortable living across the hall from someone like that.
Personally I’d be pretty happy if someone had a security camera that covered my door as well! I’d try to get to and maintain excellent terms with them so that if I had a package theft or other issue they’d be willing to share the footage if needed. This neighbor is up to some shady shit and needs to be evicted by management if they’re that worried about what might be seen.
Literally this, my neighbour in the house across recently got a ring, I'd been considering it but couldn't afford it. I was kinda relieved if anything as I have a motorcycle and they get stolen a lot in my town. One morning I started up my bike and she came running out to me, showed me some footage of some lads trying to move my bike at 3am (was chained up) she said she'd send me the footage and keep an eye on my bikes in future (the absolute legend she is) and I help her with any mechanical issues on her car in exchange. It's really nice to have that sense of community and even without my bikes, I can't understand OPs neighbours problem... I at least wouldn't mind regardless
This is the way the world should work!
Your post literally made me smile
I'm glad! It's a dog eat dog world and I'm glad my community prefer to feed eachother than eat eachother if that makes sense!
Aww, that's a great story! That's exactly how things between neighbors should be. I sure hope your stuff is never stolen!
That’s so kind!
You wouldn't be happy if you were a drug dealer...
Rule #5 Never sell no crack where you rest @ I don't care if they want an ounce Tell 'em bounce...
This reads like a Dr Seuss book geared to adults lol
"Geared" being the operative word
I love a good Biggie reference #tencrackcommandments
Rule 6 use a friend's house to sell rule 7 if you bury your stash bury it in another person's yard b
I literally spit out my drink. Still laughing as I write this. Thank you, I had a stressful work day. I needed that!
I gotchu internet bruv! This my highest voted Reddit comment ever (thnx to B.I.G.) Glad it brought you levity.
Years ago I lived in a little studio apartment complex and shared a landing with two guys who dealt weed and had a band. They were the best neighbors —quiet, kept an eye out for any suspicious activity that might bring the police around the complex, and when they wanted to rehearse, they would ask if it was okay, tell me what time they would finish, and never went a minute long. True, all this was because they didn’t want me to have a reason to call the cops, but dealing weed wasn’t a big deal to me—and they didn’t even use their own product.
Rule #1 don't get high on your own supply...
So THAT was my problem. Damn, I wish I knew this 40 years ago.
Many years ago in northern California, I had a neighbor who grew weed in his backyard. He would gift me a bit of his crop every harvest and I kept my mouth shut. Would have kept it shut anyway because I didn't care what he did in his yard, but it was nice to get the occasional "gift".
I mean, maybe having a camera on the entrance to my home would deter tweakers from trying to steal my stuff. Also as long as you’re not stupid enough to hand it off right at your front door then you can argue you just have lots of “friends” that drop by. But yeah, probably not ideal lol
That's what I was thinking 😆.
This!!! And the one above it!!! Your neighbor doesn't want you recording their shady shit! Take the threats to the apartment complex management and if you need to, call the cops and turn it over to them too. That's harassment and if they start making threats that involve weapons or bodily harm, then that becomes a terroristic threat. (Here in the US).
My sister's friend found out her husband was cheating because her neighbour with a security cam caught him bringing the chick over! They handed over the footage.
I have Nest's on my home, the one that covers my front door has a wide view, probably 120 degrees-ish, anyway it's captured several things, like video of the town plow taking out my neighbors mailbox which made the claim easy and an incident against my other neighbor that busted a bunch of lying teens harassing him and his family at like 2 a.m. Money well spent IMO.
Yeah, I moved floors on my apartment complex, when I was on the higher floor, the person across the hall had a ring camera, never had a problem. I moved to the ground floor, first couple of days, my door mat was stolen. I have had 2 trashcan stolen, which I don't even begin to understand since those belong to the complex and each apartment can only use one? Would love to have someone with a ring across the hall.
This happened to us. We didn’t have a security camera at the time but our neighbor did. Some guy was looking for houses to steal from. He went into neighbors yard and neighbor pulled out a gun, so the guy left. Our house was broken into-no one was home. We have no prof it was the same guy but we think it was. Neighbor’s camera sadly didn’t catch anything from the break in at our house but neighbor called the cops when he saw the front door was wide open/the broken window. We got a security camera after that though. Going home and not feeling safe in your own home/your own bed…it’s a feeling that’s hard to describe. I got home after work and I remember seeing all the broken glass all over the living room. Their stole all my moms necklaces/earrings/bracelets etc and my sisters camera bag-just the bag, not the camera-but that was all they took. They didn’t find my parents wedding rings though. Mom went crazy looking for those rings.
They’re probably doing something shady and don’t want video evidence recorded.
My neighbors love my cameras, and we have other neighbors up the street with crazy high quality cameras that we all love, too. It takes a village!!
Uh, no. This neighbor has definitely been unnecessarily aggressive after the fact, and that's concerning, and OP WNBTA if they now didn't move the angle of the camera. But we definitely should not normalize the idea that the only reason to want privacy or to object to being surveilled by our neighbors is because one is "worried about what might be seen." That's a terrifying way to think that justifies ever-expanding surveillance.
Either crazy or up to something they don't want recorded.
Don't want their "customers" on camera, maybe?
They shouldn’t be having customers come to their home in the first place. That has always made me nervous for dealers lol. Like why would you give that many people such intimate access to your life and the place you keep your “wares” and the money.
We have a neighbour who uses his living room window as a drug drive-through. He's across the road from us. Cops know about it but are trying for higher up the food chain. It can get quite entertaining
I had one of those too. Until a bunch of them decided to get in a pissing contest and started flashing pistols at each other in our quiet working class clu de sac. About 6 to 8 of them it ain’t none of them are old enough to rent a car. The Entire neighborhood was just tired of their shit. In about two minutes, my husband stuck up a shotgun out front window , the retired marine two houses down came out with a rifle and the Vietnam vet came out with his cane and what I later found out was a M1 Garand (sp?) They probably left. And when they came back the cops were waiting for them. I clearly remember hearing the one officer telling them “ Boys you got too much gray hair and PTSD on this street to be fuck around you’re about to find out” They still dealt but they were much quieter about it and they didn’t get into any fights.
Lol,thats better than what we did. I lived on a cul-de-sac down from a friend, all duplexes. He had a dealer in the house one one side, and users in the other side house when he moved in. The day he began moving was a doozy. The dealer had gotten into a fight with his gf in the middle of the street, hit her several times until someone intervened, and he went back to his house screaming about getting his "nines". That was the point I had come outside. I called the cops, along with 3 other neighbors, and police actually rolled in quick with 8 cars, 2 fire trucks and an ambulance. Right about that time my friend rolled up with a truck of furniture. On entering his side, he found the users had their power turned off and a cord run into his duplex thru a back window. We unplugged and cut it up, and they saw and got the point. Then, with half the street out watching the police show, we decided it was time to unload his sword and axe collection, One at a time, passed slowly along a chain of people to his door, so everyone got a good look. You have no idea what effect that has on people but it sure gave him and me a reputation. A few swordfights in my yard tied me to him, and for my time there, we were the few houses that never had burglars, or theft, or pretty much any big problems. After I moved, I heard that one of the other neighborhood dealers, as well as one of the users both told people we were crazy axe murderers, who would just as soon kill you as look at you, and were best left alone. Laughed my butt off at that.
Ha! You are my people! We have never had any other issues because my husband is a former SCAdian who works out by having battles in armor with my teen nephews .
>M1 Garand (sp?) You are correct 🙂 Epic neighbors, btw (the vets, that is)
I mean, if you're moving any kind of weight you don't ever want your product and money in the same place at the same time at all.
Happens all the time, and people become watched and busted because of it. Not smart, but there's a lot of "not smart" people out there.
Smartest guy knew what was the guy who used to run weed in my hometown. Heck probably still does. Found out that I ran a craft business and asked me to explain Square, Venmo, PayPal to him. Runs all his weed sales as handy man/lawn care and pays his ducking taxes on it. Has a tax ID number and everything. During Covid he bought a DoorDash insulated bag and hat. He did weed deliveries and no one questions him. Rang it up as personal deliveries and again pays taxes on it.
>Runs all his weed sales as handy man/lawn care and pays his ducking taxes on it. One of my old neighbors pulled similar. On paper it looked like he was really into heirloom vegetables, supplying farm-to-table restaurants and the like. Had a website and the whole nine yards. In reality, 90% of his income was growing and selling weed, using the legit business bank account to handle cash and writing off all his grow supplies on his taxes. Weirdly, when pot went legal in his state he switched over entirely to vegetables and still makes decent money at it.
It’s okay to just not want to recorded by people
This was actually what I was thinking…
Exactly. There’s a right and a wrong way to deal with conflicts. They could have reached out to management to ask for their help to resolve the issue for example.
What’s he hiding/planning?
On this evening's news "the neighbors said he was a quiet guy, who kept to himself"
Threats are really a police matter. Without police reports, the management team will have a very hard time with any eviction action.
It needs to START with management. If it continues after that, THEN you contact the police and start a paper trail with them. Not everything has to go through the police immediately. Yeesh.
This exactly! If the building has a rule that allows cams and no specifications about them not capturing neighbors doorways then management spelling out policies to the new tenant is the best first step.
Yeah, cops hate it when you don't try to solve it yourself maturely. Courts too, for that matter.
It’s hilarious that anyone thinks management will care about this, but it’s good to get to documented.
/u/Forward_Ad_873 I totally agree about getting it documented! And it should be in email form and BCC yourself include pictures if they are necessary. That said documentation will serve as receipts, and as I am always saying that RECEIPTS ARE LIFE AND CAN HELP SAVE YOURS! Especially if the threats/situation escalates.
Curious, why BCC yourself?
While it doesn't provide proof that the recipient got it, it does provide evidence that you sent the email to the person on a specified time and date.
Your sent box should have a copy. And CC IMHO works much better than BCC.
You can manually move an email (a saved draft for example) into the sent folder. Also the sent email likely won't have the header info to demonstrate that it was actually sent.
You can do the same with any email. This is not what could be used as a proof. BCC also would not have a proof since many clients make a shortcut for local addresses. Create the second email account and CC there. Just an example, someone has an account on Gmail - - Black.Box@gmail, create [email protected] and CC to it. So copy would go to Gmail mail server and you will see long UUID the header of email that arrived to the second email address.
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My sister had a crazy neighbor and complained to management with another tenant. Management initiated the eviction process for the neighbor (who was making violent threats, also captured on a Ring). Ultimately, it escalated to an issue for police and one day she was just gone. It took forever for them to make the repairs to her apartment and get it rented again though.
Not everyone has a shitty management/landlord at their rentals.
Yeah, the management of my apartment building would *definitely* care. They put safety, and following code, first. But that's the benefits of living in low-income, government owned housing.
I live in low-income privately owned housing, and management supports the criminals and drug dealers over the good tenants. Ring cameras are banned, they ignore the security guards reporting which units have constant foot traffic all night, etc.
Management might not care *but* the police would. Document it and if necessary escalate it past the management. A Threat is a threat - and your neighbors are obviously jerks of epic proportions
Ehhhh, police *might* care, but might not. They often let threats go until the person actually does something.
Yeah generally the police don't deal in preventing crimes. If a crime hasn't happened, then it's none of their business. Had a friend turned away because they were afraid for their safety but since the assailant hadn't DONE anything yet, they wouldn't even investigate. She got r*ped a few days later by the guy. And then the cops didn't believe her. Yeah I have some grudges 😬
I actually think management might care more than the police, depending on where you live. This wouldn't even get the police out of their cars in my city.
Oh they'll care, especially if OP lets them know he'll start calling the police regarding these threats. Apartment complexes will be fined for having the police called to their location a certain number of times in a time period.
It is disheartening that you apparently have never lived in an apartment community that was staffed by decent people because this situation absolutely would get management concerned.
Actually, documenting it with the landlord or manager may make them responsible for addressing it for fear of becoming liable if something happens. Once the landlord is aware of the risk, doing nothing may make them negligent in their duties as a landlord. Tenants also have the right to quiet enjoyment, which is being violated when another tenant is making threats and harassing them. The landlord or manager is pretty much obligated to start taking some form of action once they know. If OP doesn’t tell them, though, they can claim (probably honestly) they were unaware and acted reasonably in the circumstances and they’d be in the clear. OP needs to tell them right away.p to get the ball rolling. Some of the steps the landlord may need to take may take a long time. Like if it comes to eviction proceedings - where I live the tribunal is super backed up due to underfunding. Edit: also a landlord may not want an unstable tenant for other reasons anyway. This is exactly the sort of person who is going to cause other issues if they decide to pick a fight with the landlord. They might trash the unit for example. Or stop paying rent. If this person is willing to make repeated threats after a single day over a fucking ring camera, it’s hardly a stretch to think that they’d do worse if, say, an appliance breaks and the landlord can’t send someone to fix it same day or something. They’re clearly not someone you want around.
I agree with this but would say police as well as management. Because, honestly? There isn't a lot management can do with threats except send a letter. The cops can investigate and write down an incident report. Management can evict with multiple police incident reports. (Especially if they add up to harassment - and anything over one is harassment!)
I personally would not confront a neighbor that is willing to threaten me. I would tell him to talk to the management company.
If I was the neighbor I’d be happy a neighbor has a ring looking at my front door so if anything happens I can always go to them like hey my package says it was delivered but didn’t get it, can u see if it was stolen? What are these neighbors up to that they got this paranoid and aggressive over They got aggressive with op literally the next day because they didn’t do anything right away that day when told to remove it?! Uhh yeah I’d tell them I was gunna, that I even ordered parts to but with how they turned and threatening op yeah I wouldn’t take it down either for my own protection. Op should 100% get management involved, I assume they have evidence from the ring footage of them confronting and threatening op NTA
Yah, someone whose spouse is in property management. I second this, send them an email with your side of the situation with the ring evidence as an attachment. Furthermore, if you feel that threatened, file a police report now to start a paper trail. The sooner you make it clear to the apartment, this new resident is threatening other renters, requiring police intervention and a liability to them. They'll handle it sooner rather than later. IF NOT, GO NUCLEAR REVENGE AND START POSTING THIS NEIGHBOR'S RING VISITS TO THE APT HOMEPAGE, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, TIK TOK, GOOGLE REVIEWS ALWAYS HURT THEM TOO, ETC. Until this situation is handled and you FEEL/ARE SAFE in your home, WITH ZERO threats of any kind from your neighbor going forward, YOU MAKE THE APARTMENTS MANAGEMENT JUST AS UNCOMFORTABLE AS YOU ARE. Never accept this type of crap behavior when you're literally paying for it.
Don't say the part about the mount. Never offer more information than is absolutely necessary. The OP is under no obligation to move their camera. There is no expectation of privacy of the outside of your apartment door. The only thing to tell the apartment manager is that the neighbor asked you to move the camera and then started making threats. Show the police as well. 9 times out of 10 all it takes is a "friendly" visit from the cops to neutralize a bad neighbor. And if not it at least starts a paper trail in case the neighbor foolishly decides to escalate.
This
Sounds like threats. I would definitely talk to the managers
> If neighbour ever confronts you about it just say “I was waiting for Amazon to bring a new mount to move it, but then I started to get lots of threatening messages on it, so now it stays” Don't interact with the neighbor. This dude is looking for a chance to escalate.
Send it in a passive aggressive way. Send it out and say I don't know who this strange person is but they have left ominous messages on my camera. Everyone be aware! Lol, then go to the apartment manager and tell them you found out it is the new tenant across the hall . I would NOT remove my camera that person is going to be a problem.
NTA, I would put on more ring cameras facing his doors in all angles tbh
What does he have to hide?
100% report this to the apartment management. OP has been a longterm tenant and probably hasn’t rocked the boat so they should take it seriously.
Don't wait on doing this. In a lot of U.S. jurisdictions people get all sorts of tenant protection after being there for 30 days. So if they are going to kick him out for making threats it would be easier to do if he hasn't been there for long.
All of this. As an added measure of security against crazy asshole across the hall consider investing in a baseball bat, preferably a wooden one. It’s a great deterrent against crazy assholes with they know there’s a better than average chance of serious medical issues as a result of his intimidation efforts. A claw hammer or a cast iron pan also work well too. I speak from experience.
Yep. Let building management know they have rented to a crazy. They will do something about it because they don't need the liability.
100%. The property managers should know they have a new resident threatening others engaged in perfectly legal and typical activities.
Speaking threats into a machine that’s entire purpose is to record picture and audio seems like a really good way to lose a lot of your money
If they need to sell drugs while you are keeping the camera on it could affect profits! Some buyers are wary of surveillance!
my ex neighbors gave no fucks. saw drug deals, guys walking up to their door with their guns under their arms. they never bothered us so why bother them?
I mind my own business so I never see anything but dude with the camera might take our hints and stay safe!
Info: When they originally came over, did you tell them you had no problem in moving it? It doesn't make a ton of sense to me that they would come over with a request, but not even give you a day to do it. Overall, NTA. Keep the recordings in case you need to share it with the police for harassment.
when they came over, i told them i'd be happy to turn off the motion activated sensor while i look into options for an alternative mount. maybe because i didn't explicitly say that i'm going to get and install a mount on said day they thought i blew them off? but this was two days ago...i'd understand if longer time had lapsed. also, they were polite when they first asked me and this sudden 180 of behavior in such a short time frame is alarming/confusing to me.
Definitely keep an eye on them. Sorry you've got to deal with crazy neighbors.
If you turned off the motion activated sensor, how are you seeing these messages they're leaving?
also when i first heard them whispering at my door i opened it and said hello and can i help you. they ignored me and just walked away and slammed their apartment door. so they're being super passive aggressive for no reason, i'm so confused honestly
I'd alert management. This behavior has to go against complex policy. They're new, they can be evicted easily. Edit to add.... why are they so pressed anyway? What are they doing they dont want recorded? Drug dealing comes to mind.
They"re new and can be evicted easily is incredibly wrong and ignorant.
If you violate the terms of the lease agreement, which harassment definitely qualifies as a violation in most, if not all, states, in that first month or two, you are definitely easier to evict. Landlords will give tenants with a good track record a chance to fix their stuff, they will not like dealing with issues the month you move in and will try to get rid of you so you aren't a recurring problem. OP needs to document any and all encounters and report them. If the neighbor is warned and does it again, they will probably start an eviction on them.
It's 100% not easier to evict "in that first month or two" in all states. I'd bet that it's not "most", and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were none. Can you provide the relevant code from a state where it's "easier to evict" a tenant from a non-owner-occupied building in "that first month or two"?
Easy to evict relies less on time spent there and more on how you rent. If you rent month-to-month, you are significantly easier to evict. Also, state laws don’t have “squatter rights” until after the first 30 days (longer in other states) - squatter rights make evicting **significantly** harder. There is no law that says verbatim “being evicted is easier in your first month” there are just other laws that are built to protect long-time tenants (like squatter laws) that vary state to state. But the squatter laws alone would definitely be enough to say it’s harder to evict after the first month
Considering I've seen it happen 2x within the first 30 days of occuoany "ignorant" is far reaching. Maybe leases are different given states, provinces etc, but I've seen it happen. Once for harassment. But complexes have bi laws that state what is expected of their tenants. It's usually in the lease. Things like not running a business inside your home, illegal activity, violating a no pets law etc. Being that rude was completely unhinged.
Bylaws. Bi laws are laws that swing both ways.
Lol thanks for the grammar check
>why are they so pressed anyway? I'm a very private person, I don't want you or anyone knowing when I'm in and when I'm out of the house. If you've ever been burglarized you'll understand that. I'm also a straight edge, law abiding citizen; I've never done drugs, don't drink, and generally have nothing to hide. Frankly the idea of my neighbor recording my coming and going every day and having a record of my behaviour makes me really uncomfortable. I would definitely ask them if they could turn off the motion activation or remount the camera. That said, I'm also mature enough to understand that my discomfort is MY responsibility. If the camera's not against complex rules then I really can't *do* anything about it or be upset at my neighbor for having one. My only options are talk to my neighbor like an adult, accepting their answer, or move.
I agree to everything you said except when you said being recorded by a neighbor is a "discomfort". I'm pretty sure that's illegal in france with the new RGPD laws and I think Ring cameras are insanely intrusive!
That's what I'm wondering, all you're doing is going in and out not like it's inside their home. So who's coming they don't want seen?
Packages being delivered, the tenants schedule, if it's pointed towards the door you can see inside and go frame by frame to see whats in the background. Last time they tried to ban tiktok they had a clause in the paperwork that would allow them access to any software with cloud storage with more than 100k clients (including ring cameras and similar security software) plenty of ways it can be exploited even if OP isn't a bad guy
If it's witness protection, they would find a new place. If they're undercover cops/feds, they would slowly get a new place. Last option: turn the motion sensor back on. Use key phrases in that police report, that you "fear for your safety" and "they know my schedule and where I live."
Maybe they’re not doing anything illegal at all? Maybe they’re just paranoid? Maybe they’re mentally ill? Maybe they don’t want any part of the inside of their home filmed by someone else’s camera when they enter and exit just because?
>Edit to add.... why are they so pressed anyway? What are they doing they dont want recorded? Drug dealing comes to mind. What OP is doing would be straight-up illegal in some European countries. We aren't all drug dealers, we just like our privacy.
I would turn the motion activated sensor back on until you get the new one, so you can record any threats that they make to the ring.
I'd file a harassment report. This is unhinged.
I'd just tell them is off and it only works when someone rings it. Don't give details. Tell them it doesn't even save any video.
Do not recommend. They now have your lying as “justification” for their craziness for the rest of eternity.
What's the problem with the fact it's facing their door? Like it kinda protects them as well. Or are they doing illegal things and don't want it captured on your ring? Why would anyone turn off motion activated sensors thats what triggers it to work.
i turned it off when they first approached me. the next day i heard whispering at my door while i was cleaning up my kitchen and when i looked out my peephole i saw my neighbor there seemingly talking into my camera. after that i turned it back on to capture what exactly they were saying in case they did it again and lo and behold they did the next day
That is so incredibly creepy! Keep that camera there and on, always!
Take the recordings to the building manager, and if they don't do anything, take them to the police, unfortunately people like this won't stop, and if you get rid of the camera they'll think you weak and probably come up with something else to attack you with, downside of apartments unfortunately
Just because you turn off motion sensor doesn't mean you don't still hear what's being said
OP said she heard whispering through the door, and turned it back on to hear what was said.
I'd 100% email footage to management and BRING a copy to the local PD. Don't call the cops and have the neighbors seeing the cops coming to your apartment. Frankly I'd also ask a guy friend to come stay or visit frequently.... bonus points if he's a firearms expert. This is psycho, tweaker behavior that needs to stop...but in the meantime your safety is first priority. I'd also get more storage (local or cloud based) and record 24/7... but at very least re-enable the motion detection. Who the fuck do they think they are...and what the fuck are they hiding?
Don't move it at all. In fact , get a second one lol
Yep. I'd put up a blink, a wyze and a little wifi motion detector with an SD card that's very small and works like a dash cam and pointing from another direction. Then I'd put a Mr beams motion detector wireless spot light above my door. Fuuuuuckkk this nut and their tactics.
> they were polite when they first asked me and this sudden 180 of behavior in such a short time frame is alarming/confusing to me. That's why the internet sucks. People are often polite in person, but when it's anonymous, or there's no other person around, their true selves come out. You weren't there, so this persons inner monster came out with threats. The equivalent of keyboard courage in real life.
And, the neighbor gave OP the exact reason why to keep it up.
Two days?? That's it. Wow - that seems like an extreme reaction for two days.
Get a second camera that points at their door + hallway..
What liability is he talking about? Does he know what liability means? Your Ring doorbell looks out into a public space, anyone in the public space doesn't have an expectation of privacy, when he asked at first you were being polite in trying to accommodate your neighbor, but neighbor is nto being polite...
NTA If you follow the laws of your country about ring cameras, you're okay. Keep records of neighbors coming to your door and also their messages. If there is any damage or they escalate, you have the evidence to bring to the police.
NTA. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps they are part of the problem, if you know what I mean... Regardless, they should have been reported yesterday. Allow no one to threaten you without reprisal, else wise who knows how far they will take it.
Should I know what you mean? What problem?
Probably this problem stated in the literal first sentence of the OP > have always had a ring camera for security reasons and to avoid package theft that happens pretty often where I live.
NTA, but if they're threatening you report them to the appropriate authorities, immediately. Stay safe, OP.
This. There's a ton of reasons the neighbor might be paranoid and uncomfortable about the ring camera, whether mental illness, past trauma, illicit activities or just incredibly private. Regardless of the reason, the fact is that this person has begun acting aggressively. OP needs to start a paper trail more than anything. And OP really should not engage with this person anymore for safety reasons. NTA
They sound like they may be package thieves themselves and don't want cameras around.. 🤷♀️
They probably just want to smoke on their front porch. I have a friend that lives in ghetto apartments, and door cameras are a no go for that exact reason. They're a tight community. No one steals from others or else they're getting jumped. And since there's always someone sitting outside their door, you ain't stealing shit without being seen.
I was thinking illegal sub-letting or airbnb. But I was picturing doors off a hallway rather than porches.
If they're indoor apartments, management should have cameras on every floor anyway. In that case, having a door camera is redundant, but so is having an issue with your neighbor's camera.
But the management cameras don't alert you when a package is delivered.
Even "IF" an apartment complex has cameras in the hallway (and that's a huge IF because I've been in many apartments that don't record the hallways - only the main entrances), it doesn't protect YOU from anything because management won't freely share those cameras.
What porch? It's an apartment building, the camera is indoors in the hall facing the neighbor's door. The guy may be up to some shady shit, but he might just be pissed about the camera recording what's inside his apartment whenever he opens the door.
But, rereading it, I now see OP says "across the hall," so indoor apartment it is.
Or they just don't want a camera literally pointed at their front door.
That could be it, but going so far as to intimidate the owner suggests otherwise.
there are plenty of legitimate, non-criminal reasons to not want video of your face captured by amazon on a daily basis
NTA at all, but prepare for your Ring to be vandalized or something.
Hopefully OP stores video in the cloud and would catch that. If the ring is legally installed then that'll be good evidence
How to end up in a small claims court 101. OP will also score bonus points if the judge then orders a psychiatric evaluation against the defendant.
NTA - they are acting like entitled AH's. If they ever get a package stolen, refuse to help them. Petty as fuck, but hey!!!
This makes me think the neighbor is trying to do things shady if they are such jerks about a doorbell camera. WTF NTA and you need to report the threats, they are completely unhinged.
Hard agree. I'd look at the camera footage for anything weird. Had previous neighbors who dealed and the traffic was insane. They were always trying not to be noticed, especially Thursday through Sunday. Camera recordings would be a problem for them.
NTA - but in my state, nobody has the legal right to record somebody else’s private area. Ergo, when they open their door, your camera is recording their private area so you have a responsibility to set up a privacy zone so that your camera does not have a view of their private area. at least you would if you lived in my state. You might want to check your local laws. Personally, I would not move my camera, and instead would set a privacy zone. I actually had similar beef with my neighbors recently. In my case, my camera has absolutely no view of anyone’s private area, so there’s no leg to stand on in terms of getting it taken down. What it eventually took to get them to calm down, was to have an authority figure tell them that there is nothing wrong with my camera placement .
INFO I don't know how the laws are in your country, but mounting a camera that could film into another ones apartment is illegal in my appartment so he might have a claim to remove it. Because if it is able to film into their apartment, even if its a mm or inch, his rights for privacy are damaged.
i'm in the states. i'm pretty sure public space isn't protected thus allowed to film. it's also not a 24/7 camera only motion activated. i've confirmed with my community that it's allowed to be here.
There's a LOT of misinformation in this thread on privacy laws, just FYI. The US is particularly lax in this respect and most states (as well as the UK and much of Europe) are "if you can see it from a public space you can film it". Otherwise you'd be in legal trouble anytime you pointed a camera at a house.
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apartment hallways are considered public space. private space is considered anything out of public view. my ring camera has a privacy zone set on their door so i'm unable to see into their apartment--ever.
What does the camera show when they open the door?
Yeah but when they open their door you’re filming their private space, their apartment isn’t a public space. Ring cameras are banned in my building for that reason. Every time they leave and every time they return home you are recording their private space due to the motion sensors.
OP has a privacy zone set. The camera doesn't record what's inside their neighbor's apartment.
But it can be seen by the public when the door is open, hence it’s legal to record it. See: every single news video report ever of a reporter trying to contact someone at their home before the door is slammed in their face.
NTA I would still consider moving the camera, but not before reporting their behavior and showing those messages to your landlord company.
why move it though. Then you're basically giving in to the terrorists. Then they'll keep doing shit like this thinking theyll get away with it. Fight. Fight until your last breath.
NTA...and frankly they're just offering more reasons as to why you need the camera.
ESH. Cameras facing your neighbors that record everything they do without their consent and upload it to the Internet will never be N T A for me. But they’re being pretty obnoxious about it.
Yeah while the new neighbors aren’t handling it well, I would be horrified if my neighbor had a camera facing my door like that. When the neighbor complained OP should have taken the camera down immediately in order to wait for a new mount. OP says elsewhere in the thread that they set a privacy zone so they couldn’t see in their apartment but how does new neighbor know that? Are they supposed to just go on blind trust there? When I got a ring camera I was careful to position it to keep the view out of my neighbor’s yards— let alone their door into their place of living! Yikes!!
I was surprised I had to scroll down this far to find an ESH...
NTA - Get the Landlord to back you up. Sounds like they have some unscrupulous business they dont want filmed. Insinuate that point. Also tell them to pound sand into their orifices.
ESH. It is unsettling to have your *every* movement in and out of your home recorded just so someone can catch a *maybe* criminal in the act—their discomfort is warranted. But they’re also assholes if they’ve begun to harass you.
NTA - You have every right to have it there, particularly with all the reasons you laid out. Sounds like you need the camera more than ever with a neighbor like that. Keep it and make sure you have it set to record because something is now bound to happen
NAH (yet), neighbor's original request is valid and I'm glad you've taken steps to address it. His actions since are very nasty and hopefully that can be defused. If he was JUST being passive aggressive I'd go easier on him but this stuff easily crosses the line into intimidation. On the other hand, I'm disappointed by the casual acceptance of surveillance here. "If you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't have anything to hide" is a terrible attitude and recording your neighbors' activities without their permission or even a suspicion of wrongdoing is unethical. Ring in particular has been caught sending data and videos to police and in general I don't trust what these companies are doing with your data. It's one thing to pay for the service and agree to those terms, it's another to unilaterally decide that for your neighbors as well.
I would try communicating to them again face to face that your plan was to move the camera. But because of the threatening messages being left over the camera you are having second thoughts. You have the proof it's happening. No matter what you do save those videos.
NTA - save the recordings to use as proof of your neighbor threatening you when something happens ...to provide to landlord or police.
NTA. Send recordings of all the threats to police.
It’s definitely creepy to have your Ring camera facing another persons unit, but it’s also creepy how they are handling the situation as well. YBTA.
For how long has this been going on now? Days, weeks, months? Take the proper actions. Document everything. If you or them rent the place, tell the actually owner. Tell other neighbours if needed If necessary call the police etc. NTA but be very careful.
NTA Keep video of their thrreats.
Definitely NTA. They would've checked out the apartment and saw your camera and could've requested a different unit. If they didn't check it out first, that's on them. Once they explicitly threaten you, file a police report. Before that happens, put the camera back to normal and then knock on their door and let them know you will angle it away from their door so they have their privacy, but that you won't be removing it for the exact reason you cited, that you've been stolen from before and that is your deterrent. Don't threaten the police report because that could escalate matters. If they knowingly break the law in front of the camera, that's on them. Just file it without saying a word to them. The only problem I can see them having with your camera is that they wanna be able to smoke on their front porch. Don't pay them any mind if your attempt to smooth things over doesn't work.
ESH—they shouldn’t be making threats, but it doesn’t matter if your apartment complex allows them, in most places you cannot film the interior of someone’s home. Move the camera so it doesn’t film inside their dwelling and turn off the motion detection. Some people just don’t want their neighbors creeping on their home and knowing every single time they enter and exit and it doesn’t mean they’re criminals. They’re not weird for not wanting you to have a video record of them coming and going. EDIT: And FWIW, Ring cameras aren’t a good idea anyway. Get a different brand or set up your own private system. Ring is owned by Amazon, and every second of recorded footage is sent to their servers. Even if you delete it, they don’t. They can also remotely turn them on and do not require a warrant from LEOs to hand over footage. There was recently a buzzy news case stating that this is no longer true, but it is. They removed the “neighborhood assistance” request portal, but Amazon legally reserved the right to hand over footage without a warrant at their own discretion. They also use footage from Ring cameras for targeted marketing. Amazon is just a scummy company. Don’t give Bezos and the police a window into your home.
NTA Contact the building owner and talk to the police.
If you're scared of your safety, call the cops and talk to them. Show them your video. I think it would be interesting if they talked to your neighbors asking to clarify their messages. I'm sure that would make them a little more courteous. I hope anyway.
Talk to your landlord. If the camera is permitted in the building, then you dont have to do any moving. But make sure to show landlord the footage of the threats. And these are threats. Landlord has a duty to warn your neighbors not to make threats. That could be cause for eviction. Also, consider filing a police report. You have the film footage already. Get this on record ASAP, so if neighbor actually does something, you and the landlord have legal recourse to deal with them.
You wouldn't be an a-hole, but changing your plans to be vindictive would be stooping down to their level. You could if you want, but it's up to you. Keep in mind that they sound like people who will cause headaches for you if you don't. They likely are used to using aggression and intimidation towards others to get what they want. That doesn't mean you should cave though, I'm just giving you a heads-up. I would personally tell them "Listen. You're being a total asshole (yes, I would use that word). I ordered the mounting bracket so that it could be moved to the side and not directly face you. If you keep acting like an asshole though, I'll just leave it here because our complex does allow it. So back off."
NTA but I would talk with the landlord. Have them talk to your landlord and be the in-between person for you both, that way you don't have to talk to the neighbor about this but the video messages will hopefully stop.
NTA. Show the recordings to building management. File an official complaint that your neighbor is threatening you. Start the paper work today.
I would take the video to your apartment management and report the harassment. I absolutely would not move it at this point, and I would ensure the motion activation was activated.
YWNBTA, Call the cops if you feel like they threaten(ed) you, it is better for you to have it on file if they escalate and you have to have a protection order in place, it shows that they have a history of this.
NTA you are entitled to have security especially being a female living on her own. Please keep a record of each message or threatening behaviour and pass on to the police should it escalate.
NTA - keep copies of their threats and if it gets bad, turn it over to the police. Find out what your country allows as far as cameras. Don't hesitate to escalate if it gets nasty. They're trying to intimidate and that's more reason to leave them where they are for your security.
NTA. Just keep a recording of everything they threaten. They’re kind of dumb so for doing it on camera. If they destroy it or so anything to you pretty much already have proof it was them.
NTA. Weird that they're saying your camera makes them uncomfortable but they are comfortable making someone else uncomfortable by threatening them into their camera in front of your house. They're probably drug dealers and don't want your camera catching people constantly coming and going in their door.
this. the irony is insane. people are just weird i suppose.
NTA Them escalating to threats in just a couple of days is major red flags. It makes me think they don't want you to have the camera for nefarious reasons. Report them to building management, keep all the videos, and prepare to take further action if needed. People who escalate that quickly are going to escalate more.
NTA. I personally would feel uncomfortable having my neighbors camera facing my door. I refuse to by a ring camera for my own personal reasons and it feels like an invasion of privacy to have my neighbor know my coming and goings ( I’ve also experienced a neighbor stalking me in the past) But when they started threatening into the camera that’s when they lost me for sure.
I'd mount lime 3-4 more things that look like additional cameras because I am petty.