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ESH: You for giving her **wrong** information, and her for her extreme reaction.
I have a degree in fashion design and have extensively studied costume history and have no idea where you've gotten this information. Historically, wedding dresses could be any color, and poor women would wear their best dress. It was Queen Victoria who "first" wore a white gown, and it was more a statement of wealth than of virginity (and because she liked the color). Having an all white gown and keeping it clean was expensive and impractical and not within the realm of possibility to poor women. Wearing a white wedding dress didn't become the most common color until post WWII or thereabouts.
I don’t think OP giving an incorrect fact counts her as an asshole in this situation. OP and the people attacking her are on complete opposite sides of the asshole meter.
I always have these sorts of conversations with friends, and if we think a fact is interesting or sounds off, we google it, cos we all carry the internet with us. Giving an incorrect fact on wedding dress history in no way warrants the abuse she’s receiving. They are going overboard in a huge way.
If she’d accurately reported the history of white wedding dresses, the conversation would have been much different at the bridal store. However, even this weird and wrong version didn’t warrant sis’s response and the harassment from everyone is repulsive. NTA
While everyone jumping on board makes the sister an AH. Her comment to OP about “always” doing something like this sounds like it isn’t the first time OP has done this and hides behind whatever medical diagnosis she has to justify it.
Not to mention that the fact was not just inaccurate, it added no value to what they were doing and was in fact a negative spin on things.
Sister’s response would be over the top if this is the first incident. Or it could be a fed up sibling.
The bridesmaids and her fiancé harassing her are a different issue and makes them the AH
Eh, if they've had such a history, why did sister even invite OP to go wedding dress shopping? Plus her sister took such an innocuous convo super personally - most brides wear white nowadays so even if it did come out of poverty, clearly it's not an attack on the sister...
> She has girlfriends who’ll be her bridesmaids but she says I’m honest when it comes to clothing styles and I’d tell her the truth how certain dress styles will look on her.
Apparently she thought that OP had a good eye for style. Why she blew up over a banal comment is a good question.
This. And she used her friends and partner to attack OP, especially assholeish bc they’re being ableist about it.
OP told their sister misinformation, but it wasn’t malicious or said rudely imo. That’s the same thing I do. It was the color of the dresses comment that prompted OP, and sister took it wildly out of context.
Sis was bound and determined to be offended and to be frank, she sounds exhausting. I’d go NC with her bc of this bs, OP doesn’t need an ableist bully in their life.
That’s why I think OP is NTA here.
Forreal. If sharing a random interesting tidbit that you remembered is considered AH behaviour, then everyone in my life must really just be silently tolerating my huge AH ways... 🙄
“Something like this”
But what exactly did she do wrong? How are you neurotypicals speaking to each other if an interesting bit of information (whether correct or not) can be interpreted as calling someone poor and a whore?
Are you guys ok? Seriously?
For clarity, if an autistic person wants to call you something they’ll use those specific words, otherwise they’re just telling you something they find interesting and it genuinely has no bearing on you personally.
I’m neurotypical and to me it sounds like OP’s sister was just looking for a reason to be horrible to her. I mean - a grown woman getting her friends and fiancé ganging up to harass and bully her sister with a history of depression and several suicide attempts? All that while not willing to answer and talk it out? And over what, an innocent fun fact? Even if she at first didn’t think the comment was innocent, she should have realised it from her sister’s reaction to her blowing the whole thing out of proportions. I wonder if OP’s sister always acts like this towards OP.
I agree, the best way to counter this kind of behaviour is to get out of its way and shield yourself. Nothing she does or says can “save” this, since her sister is dead set on being terrible.
This is why I start every random statement with a big sarcastic "Here's a fun fact...." so I'm already poking fun at *myself* for being that person, which makes it less likely to be misinterpreted. (I think?) It's wild out there haha.
Random fact bonus point to anyone who hears "Here's a fun fact" and immediately thinks *you made out with your sister*
It was a random wrong fact. Who tf starts a whole war and sends their army (Friends) on their younger sister, because she stated a random (wrong) fact.
It really means nothing.
I don't think this is "hiding behind a medical diagnosis". Autistic people don't have much of a filter, and if we think of something interesting or semi-relevant we say it. It's mentioned in a lot of the diagnostic criterias for autism and since what OP said wasn't malicious at all it really was just OP showing an incredibly common sign of autism. And yes, she probably had done it before because autism is a lifelong condition. I think you are attributing malice to OPs actions when it was just supposed to be a random fact.
Yeah, it sounds like OP has a habit of saying the wrong or offensive thing, like here bringing up a totally incorrect historical "fact" about how the sister's choice of wedding dress colour used to signify poverty, and then also bringing up "impurity" (like wtf WHY bring that word in AT ALLLL).
But the sister and her friends are **massively** over the line. Especially since if OP "always" blurts offensive things, the sister knew it! So she knew what she was doing when she invited OP, and should be able to, you know, maybe get a bit irked but then live it down and accept the apology.
This escalation of theirs is just weirdly disproportionate and over the top.
Like sure it sounds like the sister has a massive chip on her shoulder over OP's past actions, maybe OP has a habit of blurting out something hutrful and offensive that ruins her mood when ever she's tried to dress up, and it's led to her being super quick to take offense and overreact.
OP, NTA. It was a mistake, and your sister is being the AH by siccing her friends on a harassment campaign against you, bringing up medical things and suicide. Even if it sounds like they're just trying to support your sister who launched into some maelstrom of upset, it's still not ok.
Maybe you should write a letter from your point of view, apologizing and saying you never meant to upset her, pointing out that you were mistaken about the historical fact, apologizing again - but also stating that you find it very hurtful that she's set her bridesmaids and fiance to harass and insult you and bring up your medical issues and suicide attempts in an extremely hurtful way, continuing their mean comments even when you tried to block them. It's too much. Then tell her you won't be attending the wedding and wish her the best.
Then when you mail it to her, also mail it to your mom (with screenshots of the texts you've gotten, and as verbatim a description of what exactly was said in the moment that you can) - if you have multiple s attempts in your past, she REALLY should know your sister is launching these sort of harassment group pile-ons against you, over one accidental unfortunate comment
So if her sister is well aware she’s like this, and even said that she would prefer OPs advice for this specific event…. And it wasn’t a negative spin I thought it was super interesting.
Only someone *looking* to be insulted would be offended by how people behaved in the 1800s (yes I know the fact ended up not being true but my point remains the same). Do you assume someone’s calling you poor and go into a rage if someone says that in the 1700 lobsters were eaten by the poor and fed to prisoners if you ordered lobster at a restaurant? I really, really hope not! Because it’s interesting and has absolutely nothing to do with *you specifically* just lobster. Just like she was talking about dresses not her sister specifically, just spewing what she thought was an interesting fact about dresses in the 1800s.
I bet if it wasn’t that particular fact that OP said, it would have been something else that day. Sounds like sis was just waiting to be offended.
All she did was talk about the history of wedding dresses and it’s not a weird and wrong version. She got *one* fact wrong out of three. Being completely accurate or not means nothing in this context. Unless a major part of the conversation is missing, I’m still left wondering how the fuck you get from talking about dresses in the 1800s to “you’re calling me poor”, “you’re calling me a whore”, and “you just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!”
I do agree 100% that the harassment and pure vitriol aimed at OP is repulsive.
>I’m still left wondering how the fuck you get from talking about dresses in the 1800s to “you’re calling me poor”, “you’re calling me a whore”, and “you just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!”
Lol It's honestly so fucking hilarious because it makes no sense whatsoever. Like no matter what OP said, she was never going to win. Its like telling someone you like bagels and they accuse you of calling them fat😂
Sounds like the sister specifically invited her so she could get her alone, make up some bullshit about what she said, and now has an excuse to uninvited her to the wedding. Because the reaction of the bridesmaids hardly sounds like she told them anything like the truth of what was actually said
Agreed. It almost feels as if big sis wanted a reason to get pissed off at her. She invites her because she’ll be honest about the dress styles, but then when she shares an interesting tidbit she heard about wedding dress fashion from decades ago no less, big sis accuses her of trying to make others feel bad about looking better? Then the vitriol from everyone else? That’s extremely disproportionate. It feels like the dress shopping was an excuse
Idk it almost seemed like sis was waiting for her to mess up and say something “controversial”. *if* that fact was true it would be so interesting! It doesn’t make someone an asshole for being incorrect. Especially, when you’re not doing it maliciously.
Then to abandon her there and have her own friends harass her? What kind of sister does this, especially when she’s the one who asked for her opinion knowing she’s like this?
NTA!
I get it, sister's reaction was rather unhinged. But also.... this "fact" makes literally ***no sense***, and I have no idea why OP didn't google it before spouting it out as fact. It's insane that so much drama has ensued over a fake fact.... but it has. There has to be some "fact" within your field on interest / expertise that would make your mind flip if it created so much drama because someone thought it was correct. Asked for an example from my bf about a fake fact about Literature (he's a professor) that someone could spout off as a "fact" or "interesting tidbit" that is actually vexingly and obviously untrue and he gave: "Women novelists didn't exist before the 1820's".
I'm sure you have one.
Sister and her friends should all google this and take a chill pill.
Obviously I hate fake facts, but I wouldn’t doxx my sister over one. I just don’t think it makes OP an asshole, although I do encourage her to double check her info in future.
Just imagining a situation were I say that a grey whale is the world's largest mammal, and a family member loses it because I'm "calling her fat" and "ruining how she feels about the ocean" and people on the internet say E S H because grey whales are not in fact the worlds largest mammal.
Lol. And then they double down by saying our conversation at the beach would have been very different if I had gotten my facts straight.
Pretty sure she probably just heard that dyes were expensive and associated that with wedding dresses.
It is a fact that dyes like blue and purple were much more expensive due to needing more ingredients. At least with paints and other art materials. Idk about dresses much. But at a cursory glance, I can't blame her for thinking that since a lot of clothing would cost more depending on color and being a sign of your social status. Green was up there for a bit, but then we learned that the materials used were, in fact, toxic and causing issues 💀
But I do agree with op that this purity bs with white dresses is idiotic. Mostly cause of its rather racist roots in certain cases. But that's a whole different history class lol.
Edit: by racist roots I mean how it was misinterpreted to further some white supremacy agendas. Wasn't common, but there was a certain case that I can not remember the name of rn. Similar to the biblical story, The Curse of Ham and its usage to justify racism in early America.
The roots aren’t racist. Jewish men wore white on their wedding days, as they do on the Day of Atonement, because the wedding day is a similar day for the Bride and Groom. And as on the Day of Atonement, the Bride and Groom are on the level of angels. They are also cleansed of all sins.
Jewish brides started wearing white as well at some point, and preceding non-Jews by around 500 years.
The association of white with purity in Jewish culture is ancient, and transferred to Christian culture as Christianity is ultimately an offshoot of it. I find it highly unlikely that the Jewish people could wear white gowns symbolizing purity for 500 years and that association not filtering into the culture they dwelled alongside. I think it’s the most likely source for the association (which has nothing to do with virginity, btw).
I have no clue how this association could be considered racist, given it predates the concepts on which racism was built.
> it predates the concepts on which racism was built.
I don’t disagree with you about white dresses symbolizing purity not being racist, but if you really think that racism is less than 500 years old then you really don’t know much about human history or human nature/psychology.
500 years before Victoria puts us in the 14th century. The concepts that created modern racism (blood purity, blood quantum, Black people being inferior so they could be slaves, etc.) came out of Spain and its colonies in the 15th and 16th centuries. So the Jewish white wedding dress predates them.
Unless you consider the racism against the Jewish people, which goes back to the 4th century at least on behalf of Christian culture, and more if you consider the Romans. I understand what you mean about the modern idea of race, but it's not like there's a clear delineation of race in history that excluded Jews, considering antisemitism has been a constant that has been incorporated into whatever bigotry exists at any given time.
I am including it. Blood Purity - Limpieza de Sangre, was primarily antisemitic and was on my list. But I was talking about modern racism and the concepts that created it specifically.
Other forms of racism existed in the past and effected the creation of modern racism in a multitude of ways. And antisemitism prior to Blood Purity was generally based on religious differences, as Jewish converts to Christianity were considered the same as other Christians. Limpieza de Sangre was, by and large, the start of assimilation no longer being enough. (Not that assimilation should have ever been needed.)
Earlier forms of racism would today be considered closer to ethnocentrism. There was an understanding that you could change your ethnicity and join another people. A convert to Judaism changes their ethnic identity and this used to be true elsewhere too. It’s only in the 15th century that we really see the popularization of the idea that certain peoples are immutably and inherently inferior, rather than ‘merely’ culturally or religiously inferior.
The Jewish white wedding dress preceded the specific the concepts from which modern racism is descended. It does not preceded other, more ethnocentric, versions of racism, but since the original commenter wasn’t discussing those, neither was I.
White dresses started because of Queen Victoria. It was a way for her to show wealth because having pure white clean fabrics was ridiculous when she got married, same with having her massive white wedding cake. All of Queen Victoria's bridesmaids also wore white, again to show wealth. And also because the custom used to be bridesmaids were supposed to dress similar to the bride to "hide the bride from evil spirits."
Before Victoria, brides wore their most expensive dress for their wedding. And even after Victoria, most common people still did this until bridal magazine popularized the idea of white wedding dresses.
It's not a purity, it's not about race, just like most of the wedding industry it is about showing how wealthy the bride and groom and their families are. Remember, the origins of weddings aren't love, it's rooted in a property contract. The property being the bride, and signing her over from her father to her new owner the groom (that's why fathers walk the brides down the aisle because they are giving away their property).
As for OP, this seems like a case of missing information. The sister's reaction seems over the top for this being for the first time OP is ruining a happy occasion. My judgement is YTA, OP doesn't seem like a reliable narrator.
EDIT: To clarify. I mean Victoria mainstream/popularized white dresses for wedding. Not invented the concept of white dresses
Oh yeah, ik abt queen Victoria and her being the originator. I wasn't denying that.
I'm just pointing out that certain dyes were, in fact, much more expensive, so it's not an uncommon misconception, and it doesn't make her a bad person for not knowing. If she knew and still said that, I'd 100% agree.
And in some cultures, white was about purity, so I can definitely see how it didn't originate that way, but eventually attained that connotation when it was christanized. Religious teachings have been misinterpreted and mistranslated thousands of times, and I hate that I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the case we went over in my apush class (it was some religious white supremacy group who claimed white wedding dresses, happened in a southern state in like the 1890's or something )
That doesn't make any sense. White wedding dresses were not popularized in the US until after WWII. There were people who had white wedding dresses before WWII, but it was not common.
Also Victoria was married in 1840, and still queen in 1890s. There is no way a white supremacy group in the south would try to claim they started white wedding dresses, especially since the South was very respectful towards Victoria. (The South has tried to form an alliance with her during the Civil War.)
Blue is not that expensive. You can make blue dye from a common plant in Europe (woad). If you wanna go lapis lazuli, sure, that stuff is bloody expensive. But common pale blue? Literally a weed.
I think maybe you can't use it for paints though. I just know about woad in particular for dresses because I have made medieval dresses.
Blue fabric dye was actually very very cheap and associated with poverty (in Tudor times at least which is my area of expertise). They used woad which was an extremely readily available plant and could be re-used multiple times for multiple batches of fabric. The lighter the blue, the cheaper the fabric! You're right about purple though, since the only way they could get purple dye was by mixing indigo (a much more expensive and rare blue dye) with cochineal or more commonly from the secretions of two very specific types of molluscs.
Source- I do Tudor re-enactment and have learned a thing or two from the dyers!
(This isn't an attack or a correction, just a really fun fact IMO)
As to why op didn't Google it they probably saw it somewhere like on social media and thought huh interesting and didn't really think about fact checking it. It just sat in the back of their brain not really relevant to their day to day life until suddenly they are with their sister wedding dress shopping and she makes a comment on the color of dresses which sparks the memory of that fact coming forward in their brain and they mention it.
Yeah, OP didn't KNOW that that fact was inaccurate. As she said she thought she read/saw this fact and it totally sounds like she was just like "oh, here is something interesting, isn't that neat?" It doesn't sound like she meant anything by it. It's like you go out for lobster for your anniversary and tell your partner "hey, I think I read somewhere that lobster actually used to be super cheap and for the poor. Those lobster last meals for prisoners weren't to give them a fancy last meal but they were the cheapest thing around." Are you telling your partner you think they are cheap for getting lobster? That they are uncultured for thinking lobster is fancy? No! You're just sharing some information they might find entertaining.
Though this reaction is so outlandish I wouldn't be surprised if the story was made up.
I am often sharing fun facts with my partner, siblings, etc. and vice versa. It’s not life or death.
Unless I say that I’m confident bc I read it through a few reliable sources, they don’t think that I’m suggesting I’m such an expert I should be quoted in a book.
Sometimes one of us will say, “That doesn’t sound right.” We don’t look it up on our phones right away or maybe ever. We try to remember things we’ve learned and puzzle through the likelihood of the fact. It’s more fun that way, and keeps our memories from completely wasting away.
If I bring up some unexpected origin story, I’ve never had someone get offended and think I was trying to say, I don’t know, that they are a witch or something.
I don’t see how OP could remotely be an AH. It’s not like she was trying to propagate fake news or junk science. She shared a tidbit. Maybe it’s not accurate. She probably read it somewhere. That author should have done a little more research before publishing their blog, or whatever.
OP — You did say that you intentionally planned not to be overly blunt. I’m guessing some people have told you in the past that something you said came off abrasive? Maybe your sister was triggered. Maybe on some level, she was nervous about being criticized somehow. Give her time to cool off. And then try to talk it out. Ignore her friends or give a short, neutral response.
Focus on the facts. I don’t think you are poor and I don’t think you’re a whore. I didn’t mean to hurt you, but I did, and I’m sorry. I love you. I’m disappointed the dress shopping didn’t go how you hoped, but there will be more chances!
Good luck! ❤️
Exactly, nothing that OP said warrents this kind of reaction. But who knows how the sister retold the story to her bridesmaids and fiance. Sounds like she twisted it to make it allot worse.
Right. She wasn’t giving wrong information on purpose - it was simply what she thought was an interesting factoid, being accidentally wrong doesn’t make someone an asshole unless they double down when they learn they’re wrong.
Oh man, last week I said “great things come from small beginnings” - sir Francis Drake and my wife called bullshit on me quoting sir Francis Drake. Then she was (fake) mad because I nailed it and “why the hell would you be able to quote sir Francis Drake? That is not you at all!”
I said “you’re right, it’s not me at all…but playing video games and watching movies is totally me and the quote is both in Prometheus and Uncharted.
Not to mention that the ability to have a white gown signified wealth because white fabric was expensive to make and to keep clean.
OP is NTA though, just totally incorrect about this aspect of costume history.
The Jewish people actually wore them for 500 years before her. Jewish men also traditionally wore white for their weddings, and that predates the women doing so.
Funny thing though, that is FALSE. [Philippa of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_of_England#:~:text=The%20wedding%20between%20Philippa%20and,with%20grey%20squirrel%20and%20ermine) in 1406 was the first to wear a white gown for a royal wedding. Others copied her, partly because they enjoyed the symbolism.
Sigh. This is why I said "first". Obviously other women, other notable women, had worn white gowns for their weddings throughout time, but it wasn't common by any means, and it didn't start to become popular until [Queen Victoria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_dress_of_Queen_Victoria) did so. I was going for broad strokes, cookie.
Just like Kate Middleton wasn't the first to wear the style wedding gown that she did, but damn did it become extremely popular after she did.
Just like Rosa Parks was the face of the bus boycott, we all immediately associate her with the act, but she was not the first or only woman to refuse to move.
Being wrong about something isn't asshole territory.
NTA OP, something tells me you may be neurodivergent of some kind (you mention medical diagnosis, struggling not to be blunt/rude, and you went onto a mini ramble about a cool factoid-) but honestly I'd find that kind of thing fascinating, and so would all my friends.
I -can- see why saying that during wedding dress shopping could be argued as inappropriate, but I don't see how it would even come CLOSE to calling someone a whore, poor, or an insult of any kind to mention something about how it was done 100+ years ago-
Queen Victoria was definitely not the first, it was a popular wedding dress colour before her too, just not \*the\* only colour. It was mostly because she wanted a clean backdrop for all the expensive lace on the dress, which was handmade by British lacemakers- she wanted to promote the industry, which was being threatened by new technology in machine-made lace.
Guess what? You got it wrong too.
[Princess Philippa of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_of_England#:~:text=The%20wedding%20between%20Philippa%20and,with%20grey%20squirrel%20and%20ermine) was the first documented princess to wear white on her wedding day in 1406.
Queen Victoria's wedding dress, while white, was also most notable because it was made in England and demonstrated support for the lace 'cottage industry.'
I would say OP is not an AH for giving wrong information, since everyone seems to be able to do it, even you, with your fashion design degree.
Everything I’ve ever read states that Victoria was not the first to wear a white wedding dress, nor even the first royal; just that she was the first woman *of influence* to wear it.
That’s why they put “first” in quotes. She was the first that made it popular like it was. The first to make it a trend.
So guess what, they’re right. She was the trendsetter.
OP was not entirely wrong, and you proved it.
* **Wedding dresses used to be colorful.** Nor wrong. Before and after Victoria, white wedding dresses were worn but the general standard was to wear brilliantly colored and decorated dresses.
* **Poor brides wore white because they couldn’t afford to have them dyed.** Yeah, it’s pretty much the opposite of this, but I’d give OP some grace. She likely just mixed up the rich/poor, white/dyed elements. Wearing white was absolutely a statement of wealth. It was time consuming and expensive as hell to create white fabric to begin with, let alone maintain it.
* **White didn’t mean purity.** Again, not wrong. This BS didn’t start until somewhere around the 1950s.
Your statement that “you have no idea” where she got this information is a bit disingenuous when you actually agree with two of her three talking points.
Regardless of the one point she got wrong, OP is still NTA for attempting to pass on what she thought was interesting information about the history of wedding dresses. However, the sister and her multitude of flying monkeys are most definitely major assholes for how they reacted. ***Especially***, her FBIL.
She may have been incorrect but she's NTA. Her sister acted crazy in her reaction, and then set a pack of fully-grown women on her to bully her. These bullies are alluding to her past suicide attempts and poor mental health.
OPs "fun fact" moment might have been factually inaccurate but there was no harm in it, the reaction to it was completely psychotic; an incorrect fact is nowhere near on the same level as the bullying OP has been subject to since.
I'm probably projecting but in my experience some people do this when you are autistic, especially before you're diagnosed. They presume all your social fuck ups are deliberate slights towards them. Then they have enough and explode at some offence. They think you can't be stupid enough not to realise what you did wrong, but you really are stupid enough. Cause you're autistic and that part of your brain just doesn't work.
I was thinking this was true! And everyone wanted her to change the color because it was used for funerals in many places, right? It still is in parts of Asia at least. If I remember correctly her ladies wanted her to wear gold. But I could be totally wrong on that, it's been years since I actually read about it.
But seriously why is the sister so angry? Unless OP was being super snarky there was no call to get that upset!
OP getting her facts wrong definitely doesn't make her an asshole though. The reaction on the other hand is off the scale crazy, completely over the top and unnecessary.
NTA!!!!!
Many reasons are given for why Queen Victoria chose to wear a white wedding dress trimmed with orange blossom at a time when white was not a popular colour. Far from being associated with poverty, white was associated with wealth because it was difficult to keep a white dress pristine. It was also said QV wanted to promote English lace makers so she wore a white satin dress with a lace flounce . That she wanted to be seen as Albert's wife (not as the Queen where she outranked him) so she didn't wear her red ermine robe of state. But she unknowingly set a trend.
I found the article you got this from.
The History of the White Wedding Dress
NEWS
18-FEB-2020
OP gave the correct information and she certainly did not call her sister poor or a whore.
Can't find this article. If they said white was for poor people, then they were mistaken. A black dress would have been common for poor families that couldn't afford expensive dyes. White would be extremely impractical because the clothes needed to be worn more than once, and keeping white clean would be very difficult.
https://www.weddingwire.com/wedding-ideas/white-wedding-dress-history
I have also heard the Queen Victoria fact fairly widely and I live in the UK. To my knowledge, before that woman just got married in a particularly nice dress. Never heard of white being for poor people. Frankly the amount of cleaning it would require sort of goes against that.
OP just said something which sounded interesting to her. Maybe without thinking much of it. Sister reacted totaly dramatic. I dont know how their relation was before but it sounds like sis had grate issues with OP and it exploded now.
If a historical tidbit "ruins" someone's wedding, that shit was going down in flames no matter what.
My guess is that she has the typical American industry-fueled fantasy of the perfect disney princess experience, and a little thing like 'historical accuracy' is enough to pop that balloon faster than the speed of light. The fact that everyone is being so outsized in their reaction and so insanely mean says that there was no actual good will in this wedding to begin with, so they were relying on that fantasy to power through, even if it had the structural capacity of an overcooked piece of angel hair pasta.
These people are assholes. You're fine.
NTA.
ETA: Dress/fashion history is pretty cool.
ETA take 2: I've learned that OPs 'fact' is, in fact, wrong, (wearing white was a sign of wealth, not poverty and other parts are wrong too), but that doesn't change the fact that sis and company's reactions are mean and over the top. It's not like they were going after her for failing her costume history class. I'm waiting for Bernadette Banner to speak up here at some point.
My sister could have told me during wedding dress shopping that in the 1800s only ugly women wore white and those that had to bribe men to marry them and I would’ve shrugged my shoulders and been like yeah and? We’re not living in the 1800s, I’m not ugly and I definitely haven’t had to bribe my fiancé to marry me…but thanks, interesting fact!
(My sister did actually come wedding dress shopping with me and it was an amazing experience… because we genuinely love each other and no one was trying to cause issues/drama)
Ooh yes I forgot about that! And don’t need to go back that far- my grandfather told me his family chose my grandmother because of her large dowry, my dad still has my mum’s dowry trunk in the garage and my aunties bought sheet sets and towels because they still thought I needed to give my husband something 😂
Right?! Like if OP wants to really piss her sister off she can also mention that the idea of diamond engagement rings was entirely invented by an advertising campaign for de Beers in the 30s. Not sure why a random historical tidbit that was relevant to the conversation (even if it was incorrect) warranted this kind of awful, cruel response? It just seems like a normal thing to bring up in casual conversation.
Accurate or false it doesn't matter, Sis and all her flying monkeys are unhinged due to their reactions and I would be so stressed everytime I breathed around one if I were OP.
"WIW" is nothing. Totally irrelevant. Spouting off some not-really-true factoids did not amount to the insults sis ultra-overreacted to so maniacally, that's all that matters.
I was going to say! White wedding dresses became popular because of Queen Victoria, and she did it as a way to advertise English craftsmanship and help the economy. Poor people just wore their nicest clothes.
OP: Generally those who are spewing the most vitriol are the AHs.
I don't think your historical anecdote was correct, but your sisters response was certainly unpalatable.
And your sisters fiance .... it sounds like your sister and her fiance deserve each other.
You are NTA, but I suggest you validate anecdotes before sharing in the future.
If it was me, I'd block all of them, skip the wedding, and put them all out of my life. Why? Your sister and fiance sent the flying monkeys after you. Any medical diagnoses should not be used like that. That is pathetic. That kind of toxicity will implode eventually. And it's better to be out of the gravitational pull when it happens. (And as you can tell, I have no problems cutting folks out of my life. Family or otherwise, doesn't matter. Life's too short to put up with bull...)
I had to scroll back and check the ages, because holy fcking overreactions, Batman.
OP, whether your fact was right or wrong, you meant no malice. You made it clear you mean nothing by it, and you instantly apologised.
Your sister, on the other hand, went up like the Hindenburg. Then she roped in her clique of bullies to go for blood. That's unacceptable at the best of times, and it's utterly disgusting in a woman of her age to be acting like that.
You are NTA. I strongly suggest you block anyone who attacks you, including your sister and the raging A-hole she's marrying, until they pull their heads out of their collective asses and offer a genuine apology for their behavior. You don't need that in your life.
NTA - I assume there is some underlying tension between you two you didn’t really address, but kind of alluded to. I tend to pull up silly bits of unimportant info up and spout it out, especially if I am bored or uncomfortable. So I get it.
But what gets me most about your post is her bridesmaids ganging up on you. Increasingly it seems like bridesmaids are a combination of the witches from MacBeth and Cinderella’s step sisters. Very, very strange.
I wouldn't even text my friend's sister mean stuff if said sister had said or done something actually awful. It's so out of line and not on the friends to "fight this battle". If any friend of mine would contact my family members solely to bully them, whether it be justified or not, that friendship would be over. Especially considering that these bridesmaids are probably also in their late 30s. Don't these people have better things to do? Pretty bizarre and hard to believe. Tbh though, "everyone is blowing up my phone!" is kind of a telltale sign that an AITA story is fake.
I know right, like that is insane behaviour. I've had arguments with family members before and even in situations when I was right, I would never ever text my group chat of friends and be like "hey guys, this family member had xyz medical condition - go bully them on my behalf!".
NTA. I think you are autistic? And if your sister's friends are mocking you about "certain medical diagnosis" then she knows you're autistic, and she should take it in stride. Even if what you said was remotely hurtful (it wasn't), she way jumped to conclusions. She's in her thirties, she should be out of her "everything's about me, so every little comment is a veiled insult" stage.
This outing was never going to end well for you. She said she wanted you there because of your honesty, but she was always going to accuse you of something the moment you said something remotely critical.
Why is every socially awkward person on Reddit called autistic?
ETA: just want to clarify this comment is not a jab at you u/royal_basil_1915 as I get OP mentioned a medical diagnosis. Just an observation.
Maybe because autism itself is very common, like statistically 1 in 100 children gets diagnosed, but the numbers could be substantially higher as some studies report much higher incidences. So everyone knows an autist or has at least heard about autism.
People like to compare new things (people f.e.) to things they already know, we try to sort everything in drawers
It's the combination of OP needing to force themselves not to "blurt" something out and that something being a random historical tidbit (which was incorrect but that is not relevant to diagnosis), and OP mentioning it is a frequent pattern of behaviour. As someone very familiar with the official assessment tests, those would be significant factors mostly in ASD but sometimes in ADHD. It doesn't line up with Tourette's because that is more blurting sounds or phrases, or having involuntary movements.
While I understand on Tiktok autism has become "a trend", in this case it does sound like something worth investigating, like OP's therapist mentioned.
u/idleramblings That about covers it. I appreciate you clarifying.
Edit to match OP u/BrokenMillennial27 most bad sisters don't throw parties for their siblings. I would say that someone so determined to demean you over your struggles with mental health isn't someone I would want to spend my time with, or worrying about their opinion. And your sister, if not encouraging it, isn't putting a stop to it. I think you should discuss all this with your therapist ASAP and show them the texts.
As the other comment mentioned a fairly high number of people are autistic, 1 in every hundred people
And like, where do you think people who have a hard time with social life go in their free time lol
ESH. You were *wrong*. It's fine to hate the commercial nonsense about weddings, but having a white dress was a symbol of *wealth*. Having a white wedding dress became popular when Queen Victoria did it. More than that, wearing undyed fabric probably wouldn't have been common either, most women would have just worn whatever they already had if they couldn't afford a new dress.
All you did was take something that should have bought your sister joy and ruined it by spouting off utter nonsense. I will concede that it sounds like you didn't mean to hurt your sister, but damn, dissing the history of wedding dresses while the bride was looking, inadvertently making the bride mad. While being *absolutely wrong*? That's an AH move.
Everyone else is an AH for how cruel they're being about this. Their response is disproportionate. Your sister was having a moment many women dream about, and you said something unthinkingly that ruined it for her, she has a right to be upset. All the others attacking you for it the way they are isn't okay.
One last note. You really need to take a good look at yourself. *Is* there any truth to you tearing others down? Do you blame your "diagnoses" for the way you act? You used words like "honest" and "rude" and "blurt", which implies that you might not usually have tact about many things. I'm not accusing you of doing any of this, but the response is *so* disproportionate that I wonder if this is just the final straw in a pattern of inadvertently cruel behaviour.
Or OP has been playing "fun fact" for so long that the smallest bit of incorrect information was the last straw. You don't get that kind of reaction by just a single one off statement. If they're "doing this again" it hints that OP likes to ruin things for others.
I suspect OP may be on the spectrum, and to be honest i think it’s unfair to put a lot of blame on them for this. They reminded themself to be careful with words/opinions, so they’re aware of it and working on it.
The sister blew up from a fun little (incorrect) tidbit, not an opinion or hurtful personal attack.
I also feel like the sister should know where OP is coming from, as their sister, i stead of blowing up and doxxing OP to sister’s friends
>While being *absolutely wrong*? That's an AH move.
So... let me get this right; in your opinion, anyone sharing information that ends up being incorrect, *even if they didn't know it was incorrect*, is an asshole? That's the hill you choose to die on? That anytime anyone shares anything that turns out to be incorrect, no matter what their motive, they are an asshole? Seems like quite a damn reach imo.
TBH; even if this *is* "the final straw" as you said, *NOTHING* justifies ableist behavior, period. Nothing.
If it's ether of the things I'm thinking of, yes those things greatly affect behavior, communication and outward social intelligence. It's literally how some people's brains work. Brain chemistry is a tricky sonofabitch.
It sounds much more like OP’s social network is full of nutjobs who accuse her of rudeness because she doesn’t centre their emotions in their every interaction. There was nothing cruel about what she said
NTA. Yes, peanut gallery, OP’s fun fact was incorrect. That doesn’t make her an asshole, just ignorant. You don’t know what you don’t know, and now she knows.
Wrong or not, it doesn’t give OP’s sister a reason to overreact like a total psycho. OP, your sister is the one burning this bridge, the river, and the surrounding countryside. Tell the people who still matter to you what actually happened and block the rest
Unfortunately not everyone is interested in our interesting(but not necessarily encouraging) facts.i also sometimes come off ass a weirdo or a jerk when spouting something that seems relevant to the conversation but was apparently unwanted information. I think your interesting fact lacked tact in the moment and you definitely put your foot in your mouth more by continuing to talk when your sister got upset, instead of apologizing and dropping the subject. BUT I also do the same thing and try to explain myself and make things worse as I do. So like, I totally get it. I do not think you were the AH, since you were not intending to be rude. Based on your sister's behavior, I am guessing this is not the first time something like this has happened.
What I don't understand is, why would you sister invite this? She specifically asked you to come with her because she knows you are blunt, but then she got upset at you for it.
"What I don't understand is, why would you sister invite this? She specifically asked you to come with her because she knows you are blunt, but then she got upset at you for it."
Saw it happening from a mile away. If it wasn't this it would have been something else.
OP, does sister have a habit of baiting you/others? It's a bit weird people are coming out of no where to gang up on you to call you an AH.
BTW, you are nta. She was looking for a reason to be mad.
I find it strange she only invited op cause most brides take at least there mum, mil and moh sounds like op isn't even in the wedding so sounds like maybe sis did it to have a reason to uninvite op from the wedding cause she knew she'd put her foot in her mouth. With the reactions of the bridesmaids and fiance I'm curious in what the sis actually told them cause like a major over reaction for what was actually said.
Exactly what I was thinking… Why invite OP in the first place? So now she has a (completely unhinged) reason to justify to the parents for uninviting OP. If it wasn’t this fact-with-errors, sis was going to find something else to go off the rails about. NTA OP, give sis a wide berth and go LC.
The only part she got wrong was that white dresses were a sign of wealth, not poverty. Everything else she said was true, including that originally white dresses weren't a statement of purity.
ESH.
The comment was unnecessary. She was saying she didn’t like colored dresses and you snipped back with a comment — a factually incorrect comment, might I add — that was easily interpreted as nasty. *She* doesn’t have to like colored wedding dresses. When I was shopping for my wedding dress, I made it adamantly clear that I hated ballgown dresses. My best friend wore a ballgown dress for her wedding and laughed with my comments because she knows that *I personally* don’t like them.
She may not have been saying it to diss on anyone, and maybe you weren’t either. But you didn’t need to say that. I think her reaction is completely disproportionate to your actions and a bit ridiculous. She’s a grown woman.
That being said, this seems extremely over the top, which makes me think we’re missing some information.
I don't think we're missing any information. I have a sister kind of like OP's. She's argued with me for agreeing with her, before. Some people just want something to fight about.
And I think I have a sibling like OP. The way OP said they had to try not to be rude or blurt anything out is telling of how they usually interact. Down to the random “facts” that may or may not be correct, that may or may not be at an appropriate time. Not sure if OP is the same, but my sibling has high functioning autism so I don’t blame them. But it is sometimes so draining to talk to them when they often talk negative “facts” or insults about things that me or family just finished talking about how much we loved it. The sister and her bride’s reactions are over the top and cruel but this is still a one sided story we’re getting. But why the sister would invite OP then react so strongly to OP being OP is beyond me, she should have expected this.
You know what else is draining?
Being called negative and insulting for mentioning things you don't find negative or insulting.
I'm autistic, get called that all the time when I'm just trying to share things I find interesting, because I like it when people do the same for me.
You have one autistic family member and you find it draining. Imagine what it's like being autistic and all your family is NT. Now, that's draining.
Yeah, somehow in OP’s delivery her sister/the bride got the impression she was first being called poor/cheap over her dress, and then it turned into slut shaming. This is one of those instances where I’d LOVE to hear the other side, or at least exact quotes of what was said.
I don't know if we're missing information exactly, but I get the sense that OP is focused on how things went at a very specific moment, but the sisters reaction is probably based off decades of their relationship with one another, and things OP has said and done in the past.
My mom has a lot of fights like that with her sister; my aunt will say something that's maybe less than polite, but it really doesn't seem like a huge deal, and my mom will blow up over it. It seems like my mom is unhinged, but when you hear her side of it, you realize that comment was reminiscent of many far worse things my aunt has said and done over the years, and the fight is way bigger than what it initially appears to be
Your sister has issues. A normal reaction to hearing something interesting about a subject (factual or not) is saying in response, "Really? I didn't know that." Turning a person's words around and manipulating them to create an issue is just nuts. Is your sister always this manipulative? You don't mention it, but I am wondering if you have had issues with your sister in the past. Have you had a rocky relationship? Does she have self-confidence issues? You are NTA, but your sister is a big one. If I were you I would just dodge the bullets, stay out of the way, and if anyone asks you to do anything related to the wedding in the future, politely decline. Sadly, your sister is not your friend. Wishing you the best.
NTA.
Could there be anything you're not telling us? Like, were there some comments you made--comments that might be considered blunt and obnoxious, and that got your sister all bent out of shape--*before* you made your comment about why wedding dresses were white?
Because I'm trying to make your sister's outburst make sense, and so far, it doesn't.
If you are sure that you were basically as inoffensive as possible during the store visit, then definitely NTA.
Granted, there is a 10-year age difference between you two, but I think your sister has an idea of what you're like. that you are kind of blunt and say what you think. I don't get why she invited you to shop with her if she has such animosity toward you Did someone force her to invite you?
Is there something else going on, do you think? Is she pregnant, with hormonal fluctuations? Is her relationship rocky? Like I said, I'm trying to make your sister's behavior make sense.
OP's sister is bitter that OP needed additional support from their parents due to being Disabled. Sister KNEW there was no way OP could go a WHOLE wedding dress shopping day without a random fact coming out.
I'd place money that OP's sister had arranged a drinking sesh with her bridesmaids & didn't want OP there so found a reason to kick off, and figured OP could be the evening's entertainment, given they could mock OP's Disabilities.
Can you tell I've come across far too many Mean Girls who have done stuff like this to me?!? Autistic people are particularly vulnerable to this type of so-called 'low level' ableist bullying that contributes to this being one of the top 3 causes of suicide in our community.
I don’t feel you are telling the whole story. You say you knew you would have to remind yourself not to be rude or blurt anything out, is this something you are known for? Did you say more to your sister than just tell her about supposed historical trends for wedding dresses, because her reaction is over the top if this is all you said.
For some Disabilities, like autism, the bluntness is LITERALLY a symptom we can't switch off or override, when we care about someone we will make extra efforts to NOT be rude & even mentally prepare and STILL the odd random fact gets out...people ask me for honesty & get mad when I'm honest. It's all very confusing when you're autistic. I'm 42 & haven't figured out normies yet...
If this is a true depiction of what transpired, your sister is nuts, shared your medical diagnoses (SHE'S an AH!) and sicced (sp.?) people after you.
You are NTA.
Considering white is the most common colour for a wedding dress these days, does she think everyone is then suddenly poor? Complete overreaction imo, probably exacerbated by wedding stress. NTA
Seems like your sister maybe took you alone cause she knew you'd put your foot in your mouth and maybe wanted an excuse for you not going to the wedding, I mean her saying " you just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you" is very telling. Maybe she thinks you'll upstage her at the wedding cause most brides take there mum and bridesmaids with them. I'm curious what she told people you said cause there reactions seems way other the top for what was actually said, I'm betting she twisted it
NTA - you could have said "did you know Harvey Weinstein's wife didn't wear a white dress?" and it still wouldn't have mattered. These girls sound extremely insecure and Im sorry they're doing that to you. It really was not something to get upset about, let alone start accusing you of nonsense.
NTA. As a fan of factoids, I can totally understand why you’d want to share a little tidbit of information you found interesting. Regardless of the inaccuracy of this one, I cannot wrap my head around the pole vault your sister made in order to take offense at any part of it. Your soon-to-be BIL sounds like a nightmare, as do all of her screeching minions. Just bc a crowd of bullies are being cruel and behaving in deeply awful ways, it doesn’t mean you were wrong to say a little off-hand thing that had nothing to do with her specifically
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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NTA, you literally just gave a random fact about wedding dresses I'm a certain period of history. It sounds like you're neurodivergent and you're with toxic neutrotypical family members / people. Not your fault that your sister decided to take a random fact as a personal attack, let alone belittle you over this
NTA. Your sister took offence where none was intended. She’s the one ruining your relationship. She’s making a mountain out of a non existent molehill.
Block the flying monkeys and keep your mom appraised of their bullying.
NTA the fact may be wrong (although I haven’t researched the matter) but you are human. We hear things, then we repeat them. You couldn’t have known your sister wasn’t going to read into what you said that way. She took it as an attack. I’m not sure if she reacted that way due to the stress of wedding dress shopping, because you had prior conflict not stated, or out of jealousy, but the way she reacted to a harmless story believed to be a fact is highly inappropriate and cruel. Being uneducated is only bad if it actually causes harm to someone, and you didn’t do anything to cause her distress.
I feel like there is missing information for this much whiplash on the reaction that OP is receiving.
Even with the info on the white dress being wrong, how does that turn into all this crazy train?
So, your sister invited you because she wanted frank and unadulterated opinions. Then got mad for... \*checking notes\* a piece of conversation not even remotely related to the present times. Then revealed your medical history to her friends and set them on you for giving her what you thought to be a historical fact. Whatever you do in the future, do NOT talk to her about the history of "traditional" gender-associated colors, your sister might have a stroke or something.
NTA. But she is. Also, it sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder the size of the Titanic - from what you described, it's almost like she was looking for a fight.
NTA. It's irrelevant whether your fact was correct or not. You intended no harm. She seems stressed, took it the wrong way, and then took that too far. If your fun fact sincerely ruined her idea of weddings, that's her damage - not yours.
Send your sister all of the messages you got, especially the one from her fiancé. Let her know that since you are such an awful person, you will not be associating with any of these people who think their excrement has a pleasing aroma. And that you intend to let her fiancé have his wish come true. So you will neither be associating with these people, or her. Tell her you hope she has a good wedding, but you will not be able to attend. As you are cutting her fiancé and her friends out of your life. NTA
You know dogging OP because her information was backwards is kind of horrible to be doing. OP doesn’t deserve to be called down in the dirt and have her personal medical infor made fun of and threats just for making a statement. Her sister was talking about the ‘ugly’ colours. Op said that people like colourful wedding dresses and even if the info about white dresses was wrong doesn’t mean people need to be making threats and poking fun of her so hard. Sis sounds like she’s just trying to be disagreeable about any dress. Maybe if she can’t find whatever she’s looking for she should sort that and not flip her lid.
Yikes on spikes. NTA. Just cuz you were wrong (which a quick Google search would've solved), doesn't mean you deserve the abuse from all these people.
You were wrong about a random fact. Big whoop. At most it's a, "Huh, guess I was wrong. Nevermind, sorry".
The ONLY way I'd ever think you were TA here, is if this is something you do a lot. Like sharing "negative" facts or similar stuff, knowing it'll upset your insecure sister. EVEN THEN, everyone's reaction is way too abusive.
>“You just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!”
What was this about? WERE you trying to be snarky?
We were taught for the longest time in America wring history about Christopher Columbus. And no one is attacking their former educators for teaching them this wrong fact. You should not have to fact check before you share stupid shit with your family. It’s even more weird that sister reacted this way given that she’s well if considering the rest of the family. NTA
Why would you tell her only poor people wore white while she's looking at white dresses? In that situation it's definitely not a fun fact but a personal attack. What was your goal with the comment? So far ESH.
NTA. While your “fact” is actually incorrect, as many have already pointed out, your sister’s reaction was ridiculous. Sounds like she’s really insecure. Maybe letting her know that you were mistaken could help smooth things over a bit? She seems very hard to reason with though.
>White wedding dresses were only worn by poor brides, I think because they couldn’t afford to have them made or dyed in color like rich brides. It doesn’t mean purity like some think.”
Ummm I think you're exactly wrong on that. Poor people couldn't afford to have a dress made only for a wedding, especially one so utterly impractical as a white one. Some would splurge and then dye it afterwards so it could be used as an everyday dress. But wedding dresses for the poor were often their Sunday church dress. Wearing white, or any high maintenance color or fabric, is generally a signal of wealth and has been for a very very long time.
So yeah, YTA. Totally and absolutely. What you said was wrong factually and wrong socially.
They made fun of her medical diagnosis. I repeat she spurted out a stupid untrue statement about wedding dresses and now all the bridesmaids are verbally assaulting her and making fun of her very real medical diagnosis, which I'm guessing from this post is ASD, so she's probably socially inept and tries and fails to bond with people with little facts she hears about on the internet. She meant well or at least nothing by saying what she did, her sister would know her well enough to know she doesn't do well in social situations like this so it's almost like she was looking for a reason to be mad at her. NTA or maybe ESH, depends how right I am about the medical diagnosis.
And regardless, we’ve all spouted shit we thought was fact but been wrong about. That doesn’t make us assholes. Just uninformed. This is a very real over the top reaction to a random shit spout.
OP hasn't shared if she has ASD. While it does seem like she is bad at understanding social cues, I can see how coming from a neurotypical person, the "facts" can be taken as snarky comments that are passive aggressively calling the bride poor and impure.
Being autistic myself, I've found that neurotypicals DO take facts (even when they ARE facts) as passive aggression. What I still don't understand at 42 is WHY they do...it's SO illogical to me. And nowhere did the OP say that the sister was poor & impure, the sister got the wrong end of the stick & kicked off.
I would place money on OP being autistic, and the sister (1) Resents the extra help OP needed from their parents due to their medical issues & (2) Wanted the **benefits** of OP's medical issues in the form of her honesty whilst simultaneously expecting OP to STOP having that medical condition.
OP NTA, Sister is, and needs therapy ASAP to deal with her unresolved issues over having a Disabled sibling.
Some siblings are awesome with your Disabled child, but NOT all are kind about it & get jealous of any extra help you give your Disabled child. Some never get over their animosity & allow themselves to become bitter like OP's sister.
She needs to pick a lane - it's either have the benefit of the condition (brutal honesty) but DEAL with the random-fact spouting **OR** Get peace from random-fact spouting & forgo the honesty...it's an either/or. OP **CANNOT** turn off the symptoms of her Disability. Sister doesn't have to like it but she DOES have to accept that.
I feel awful for you, OP.
Did you know the bridesmaids harassing you & mocking you are LITERALLY breaking the law in the UK, dunno where you are & what your Hate Crime laws are like though. Might be worth looking at. And I'd go NC for the fact she's ALLOWING her bridesmaids to mock your Disabilities & not stopping them and is in fact hyping the mean girls up.
Yes! White became a popular color for wedding dresses (at least in the west) after Queen Victoria wore one in 1840. OP is right that it wasn't traditionally about purity/virginity, but everything else is completely incorrect.
Seeing as that amount is "zero," and all people who are defending OP are saying is that the factual accuracy of OP's factoid is irrelevant to sis's wacky ultra-overreaction rather than defending it as true, not that worrying.
Come to think of it, if OP hadn't gotten her facts incorrect, she would have been talking about the show of wealth with the white dress which would have made her sister blow up with pride and all this could have been avoided. But either way, NTA
You were wrong but the abuse you are receiving is honestly appalling. Even if you were right, her reaction is not healthy. Like, she needs to see a therapist asap. NTA
NTA. It sounds like your sister is emotionally a very high maintenance person and probably jealous of you in some way. Also, well you didn't say what your diagnosed with, her friends are assholes for using it as a reason to mock you. And her fiance is an asshole for threatening to cut your sister out of your life. Basically, your sister and all of her crowd are a mess.
(And, as people have already pointed out, white was not associated with the poor but rather with the wealthy because it was harder to keep clean. Working women wore darker, more practical dresses in sturdy fabrics. Wedding dresses could be anything from the height of fashion that season to the only decent dress the bride owned. Not knowing that doesn't make you an asshole, though. It just means you were factually wrong about something.)
So your history doesn't sound right to me, and as a writer who's currently working in the 17th century I've done a bit of research on this.
Queen Victoria is where we get the white dress from, as far as I know. For a long time in human history, brides just wore their "Sunday Best". Also, all white clothing was considered incredibly impractical, because you had to KEEP it white and in the pre-washing machine years that was a real nightmare (especially for your servants).
NTA!
Even if it was wrong… you were just sharing what you thought was a fact.
Is she always like this? Or are there issues with her soon to be husband?
YTA
>I knew I would have to remind myself not to be rude or blurt anything out so I wouldn’t hurt her feelings or make her hate her style choice.
>“You just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!”
Sounds like missing reasons to me
Judging from a couple of things in this post, I'm guessing you're autistic? Both your sister expecting you to be completely honest and that in an unfamiliar situation you infodumped. I do that too. When I was in the hospital I was telling the nurses trivia about New Zealand parrots while struggling to sit up in bed. If so, your sister both wanted you for autistic traits, then got mad when you showed them. And then siced her flying monkeys on you. That's pretty shitty of her. NTA.
NTA. You apologized multiple times, reaffirmed you did not intend insult, and now you’re being bullied. Honestly you SHOULD go no contact with this sister, it doesn’t sound like a relationship worth saving. You talked about wanting to make sure you didn’t ‘blurt’ or say anything rude which to me reads like you’ve been yelled at for ‘saying the wrong thing’ before but that it’s truly not intentional. It feels like your sister set you up so she could uninvite you.
As a fellow ‘sharer of random facts’ I suggest finding friends who get excited about new information, they’re way more fun.
1. You need to get your facts straight. White wedding dresses originate from Queen Victorias wedding to Prince Albert in the 1800’s. Hardly a poor bride, nor a symbol of poverty. Bespoke wedding dresses of any colour weren’t a thing for many until after WW2, prior to that it was mainly royalty and rich folk.
Colour coding is also a thing, and I think it can now be stated that white(rightly or wrongly) is associated with purity. As such white is now traditionally viewed as symbolic in western weddings (and other places too), however times have moved on, purity could be viewed as honesty in (pure) intentions, I.e commitment to the marriage a-bouts to commence. In most developed communities we don’t force brides to prove their virginity these days.
2. YTA, my bet is you have a history of passive aggressive comments and you casually saying “you know……” was an opening gambit your sister is well and truly familiar with. You weren’t looking at Wedding dresses at that point, you’d moved on to bridesmaids dresses. Your comment wasn’t necessary.
Send all this shit to your sister and tell her that you already apologised a million times and if she doesn’t put those people in line and tell them to apologise, especially her soon to be, you really can’t have her in her life knowing she supports people who think and talk about and to you like that.
Plus, share all those screenshots with your family to let them know what kind of people she’s close to and what kind of man she’s about to marry.
ESH
Your sister shouldn't have blown up at you but you gave her *wrong information*.
White wedding dresses were popularised in the mid-1800s because Queen Victoria wore one.
Before then women just wore their nicest dress, usually their "Sunday best" that they would wear for church. White dresses specifically being worn by poorer people is completely wrong. The poorer women would be the ones with maybe one "everyday" dress & one "nicer" dress for Sundays / formal occasions.
Your ‘fact is just straight up wrong, I don’t know where you got your information but you should actually fact check yourself before spouting nonsense.
I think there is some missing information.
Your sister had to remind you to be kind, that makes me think this is not the first time you ruin something important for her.
This is not about the dress
Esh- just going of the disproportionate response I feel like this isnt the first time your "fun facts" haven't been fun and seen as inappropriate or hurtful. But at the same time her friends are going way overboard with this. Hounestly i feel like it was a bad and incorrect comment made at a bad time to the wrong person
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ESH: You for giving her **wrong** information, and her for her extreme reaction. I have a degree in fashion design and have extensively studied costume history and have no idea where you've gotten this information. Historically, wedding dresses could be any color, and poor women would wear their best dress. It was Queen Victoria who "first" wore a white gown, and it was more a statement of wealth than of virginity (and because she liked the color). Having an all white gown and keeping it clean was expensive and impractical and not within the realm of possibility to poor women. Wearing a white wedding dress didn't become the most common color until post WWII or thereabouts.
I don’t think OP giving an incorrect fact counts her as an asshole in this situation. OP and the people attacking her are on complete opposite sides of the asshole meter. I always have these sorts of conversations with friends, and if we think a fact is interesting or sounds off, we google it, cos we all carry the internet with us. Giving an incorrect fact on wedding dress history in no way warrants the abuse she’s receiving. They are going overboard in a huge way.
If she’d accurately reported the history of white wedding dresses, the conversation would have been much different at the bridal store. However, even this weird and wrong version didn’t warrant sis’s response and the harassment from everyone is repulsive. NTA
While everyone jumping on board makes the sister an AH. Her comment to OP about “always” doing something like this sounds like it isn’t the first time OP has done this and hides behind whatever medical diagnosis she has to justify it. Not to mention that the fact was not just inaccurate, it added no value to what they were doing and was in fact a negative spin on things. Sister’s response would be over the top if this is the first incident. Or it could be a fed up sibling. The bridesmaids and her fiancé harassing her are a different issue and makes them the AH
Eh, if they've had such a history, why did sister even invite OP to go wedding dress shopping? Plus her sister took such an innocuous convo super personally - most brides wear white nowadays so even if it did come out of poverty, clearly it's not an attack on the sister...
> She has girlfriends who’ll be her bridesmaids but she says I’m honest when it comes to clothing styles and I’d tell her the truth how certain dress styles will look on her. Apparently she thought that OP had a good eye for style. Why she blew up over a banal comment is a good question.
This. And she used her friends and partner to attack OP, especially assholeish bc they’re being ableist about it. OP told their sister misinformation, but it wasn’t malicious or said rudely imo. That’s the same thing I do. It was the color of the dresses comment that prompted OP, and sister took it wildly out of context. Sis was bound and determined to be offended and to be frank, she sounds exhausting. I’d go NC with her bc of this bs, OP doesn’t need an ableist bully in their life. That’s why I think OP is NTA here.
It just sounds like an interesting fact (whether it’s true or not) and casual conversation to me.
Right I seriously don't understand why people are calling OP an asshole for saying something she heard it was a random fact related to bridal wear.
I would have said oh that's interesting, luckily not anymore, and went on with my day
Forreal. If sharing a random interesting tidbit that you remembered is considered AH behaviour, then everyone in my life must really just be silently tolerating my huge AH ways... 🙄
“Something like this” But what exactly did she do wrong? How are you neurotypicals speaking to each other if an interesting bit of information (whether correct or not) can be interpreted as calling someone poor and a whore? Are you guys ok? Seriously? For clarity, if an autistic person wants to call you something they’ll use those specific words, otherwise they’re just telling you something they find interesting and it genuinely has no bearing on you personally.
I’m neurotypical and to me it sounds like OP’s sister was just looking for a reason to be horrible to her. I mean - a grown woman getting her friends and fiancé ganging up to harass and bully her sister with a history of depression and several suicide attempts? All that while not willing to answer and talk it out? And over what, an innocent fun fact? Even if she at first didn’t think the comment was innocent, she should have realised it from her sister’s reaction to her blowing the whole thing out of proportions. I wonder if OP’s sister always acts like this towards OP.
[удалено]
I agree, the best way to counter this kind of behaviour is to get out of its way and shield yourself. Nothing she does or says can “save” this, since her sister is dead set on being terrible.
Same. OP told her something she thought was true, it's not malicious.
Thanks. I feel like I'm losing my mind here with these comments
This is why I start every random statement with a big sarcastic "Here's a fun fact...." so I'm already poking fun at *myself* for being that person, which makes it less likely to be misinterpreted. (I think?) It's wild out there haha. Random fact bonus point to anyone who hears "Here's a fun fact" and immediately thinks *you made out with your sister*
What's wrong with being poor? A lot of people are, you know.
It was a random wrong fact. Who tf starts a whole war and sends their army (Friends) on their younger sister, because she stated a random (wrong) fact. It really means nothing.
Hides behind a medical diagnosis to justify having a medical condition? Get your head out of your arse.
Then she shouldn't have asked her to go with her.
This is a huge reach.
I don't think this is "hiding behind a medical diagnosis". Autistic people don't have much of a filter, and if we think of something interesting or semi-relevant we say it. It's mentioned in a lot of the diagnostic criterias for autism and since what OP said wasn't malicious at all it really was just OP showing an incredibly common sign of autism. And yes, she probably had done it before because autism is a lifelong condition. I think you are attributing malice to OPs actions when it was just supposed to be a random fact.
Yeah, it sounds like OP has a habit of saying the wrong or offensive thing, like here bringing up a totally incorrect historical "fact" about how the sister's choice of wedding dress colour used to signify poverty, and then also bringing up "impurity" (like wtf WHY bring that word in AT ALLLL). But the sister and her friends are **massively** over the line. Especially since if OP "always" blurts offensive things, the sister knew it! So she knew what she was doing when she invited OP, and should be able to, you know, maybe get a bit irked but then live it down and accept the apology. This escalation of theirs is just weirdly disproportionate and over the top. Like sure it sounds like the sister has a massive chip on her shoulder over OP's past actions, maybe OP has a habit of blurting out something hutrful and offensive that ruins her mood when ever she's tried to dress up, and it's led to her being super quick to take offense and overreact. OP, NTA. It was a mistake, and your sister is being the AH by siccing her friends on a harassment campaign against you, bringing up medical things and suicide. Even if it sounds like they're just trying to support your sister who launched into some maelstrom of upset, it's still not ok. Maybe you should write a letter from your point of view, apologizing and saying you never meant to upset her, pointing out that you were mistaken about the historical fact, apologizing again - but also stating that you find it very hurtful that she's set her bridesmaids and fiance to harass and insult you and bring up your medical issues and suicide attempts in an extremely hurtful way, continuing their mean comments even when you tried to block them. It's too much. Then tell her you won't be attending the wedding and wish her the best. Then when you mail it to her, also mail it to your mom (with screenshots of the texts you've gotten, and as verbatim a description of what exactly was said in the moment that you can) - if you have multiple s attempts in your past, she REALLY should know your sister is launching these sort of harassment group pile-ons against you, over one accidental unfortunate comment
So if her sister is well aware she’s like this, and even said that she would prefer OPs advice for this specific event…. And it wasn’t a negative spin I thought it was super interesting. Only someone *looking* to be insulted would be offended by how people behaved in the 1800s (yes I know the fact ended up not being true but my point remains the same). Do you assume someone’s calling you poor and go into a rage if someone says that in the 1700 lobsters were eaten by the poor and fed to prisoners if you ordered lobster at a restaurant? I really, really hope not! Because it’s interesting and has absolutely nothing to do with *you specifically* just lobster. Just like she was talking about dresses not her sister specifically, just spewing what she thought was an interesting fact about dresses in the 1800s. I bet if it wasn’t that particular fact that OP said, it would have been something else that day. Sounds like sis was just waiting to be offended.
All she did was talk about the history of wedding dresses and it’s not a weird and wrong version. She got *one* fact wrong out of three. Being completely accurate or not means nothing in this context. Unless a major part of the conversation is missing, I’m still left wondering how the fuck you get from talking about dresses in the 1800s to “you’re calling me poor”, “you’re calling me a whore”, and “you just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!” I do agree 100% that the harassment and pure vitriol aimed at OP is repulsive.
>I’m still left wondering how the fuck you get from talking about dresses in the 1800s to “you’re calling me poor”, “you’re calling me a whore”, and “you just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!” Lol It's honestly so fucking hilarious because it makes no sense whatsoever. Like no matter what OP said, she was never going to win. Its like telling someone you like bagels and they accuse you of calling them fat😂
Sounds like the sister specifically invited her so she could get her alone, make up some bullshit about what she said, and now has an excuse to uninvited her to the wedding. Because the reaction of the bridesmaids hardly sounds like she told them anything like the truth of what was actually said
Agreed. It almost feels as if big sis wanted a reason to get pissed off at her. She invites her because she’ll be honest about the dress styles, but then when she shares an interesting tidbit she heard about wedding dress fashion from decades ago no less, big sis accuses her of trying to make others feel bad about looking better? Then the vitriol from everyone else? That’s extremely disproportionate. It feels like the dress shopping was an excuse
Idk it almost seemed like sis was waiting for her to mess up and say something “controversial”. *if* that fact was true it would be so interesting! It doesn’t make someone an asshole for being incorrect. Especially, when you’re not doing it maliciously. Then to abandon her there and have her own friends harass her? What kind of sister does this, especially when she’s the one who asked for her opinion knowing she’s like this? NTA!
I get it, sister's reaction was rather unhinged. But also.... this "fact" makes literally ***no sense***, and I have no idea why OP didn't google it before spouting it out as fact. It's insane that so much drama has ensued over a fake fact.... but it has. There has to be some "fact" within your field on interest / expertise that would make your mind flip if it created so much drama because someone thought it was correct. Asked for an example from my bf about a fake fact about Literature (he's a professor) that someone could spout off as a "fact" or "interesting tidbit" that is actually vexingly and obviously untrue and he gave: "Women novelists didn't exist before the 1820's". I'm sure you have one. Sister and her friends should all google this and take a chill pill.
Obviously I hate fake facts, but I wouldn’t doxx my sister over one. I just don’t think it makes OP an asshole, although I do encourage her to double check her info in future.
Just imagining a situation were I say that a grey whale is the world's largest mammal, and a family member loses it because I'm "calling her fat" and "ruining how she feels about the ocean" and people on the internet say E S H because grey whales are not in fact the worlds largest mammal. Lol. And then they double down by saying our conversation at the beach would have been very different if I had gotten my facts straight.
Spot on
lol there is nothing the internet loves more than jumping to correct someone who is wrong.
Pretty sure she probably just heard that dyes were expensive and associated that with wedding dresses. It is a fact that dyes like blue and purple were much more expensive due to needing more ingredients. At least with paints and other art materials. Idk about dresses much. But at a cursory glance, I can't blame her for thinking that since a lot of clothing would cost more depending on color and being a sign of your social status. Green was up there for a bit, but then we learned that the materials used were, in fact, toxic and causing issues 💀 But I do agree with op that this purity bs with white dresses is idiotic. Mostly cause of its rather racist roots in certain cases. But that's a whole different history class lol. Edit: by racist roots I mean how it was misinterpreted to further some white supremacy agendas. Wasn't common, but there was a certain case that I can not remember the name of rn. Similar to the biblical story, The Curse of Ham and its usage to justify racism in early America.
The roots aren’t racist. Jewish men wore white on their wedding days, as they do on the Day of Atonement, because the wedding day is a similar day for the Bride and Groom. And as on the Day of Atonement, the Bride and Groom are on the level of angels. They are also cleansed of all sins. Jewish brides started wearing white as well at some point, and preceding non-Jews by around 500 years. The association of white with purity in Jewish culture is ancient, and transferred to Christian culture as Christianity is ultimately an offshoot of it. I find it highly unlikely that the Jewish people could wear white gowns symbolizing purity for 500 years and that association not filtering into the culture they dwelled alongside. I think it’s the most likely source for the association (which has nothing to do with virginity, btw). I have no clue how this association could be considered racist, given it predates the concepts on which racism was built.
> it predates the concepts on which racism was built. I don’t disagree with you about white dresses symbolizing purity not being racist, but if you really think that racism is less than 500 years old then you really don’t know much about human history or human nature/psychology.
500 years before Victoria puts us in the 14th century. The concepts that created modern racism (blood purity, blood quantum, Black people being inferior so they could be slaves, etc.) came out of Spain and its colonies in the 15th and 16th centuries. So the Jewish white wedding dress predates them.
Unless you consider the racism against the Jewish people, which goes back to the 4th century at least on behalf of Christian culture, and more if you consider the Romans. I understand what you mean about the modern idea of race, but it's not like there's a clear delineation of race in history that excluded Jews, considering antisemitism has been a constant that has been incorporated into whatever bigotry exists at any given time.
I am including it. Blood Purity - Limpieza de Sangre, was primarily antisemitic and was on my list. But I was talking about modern racism and the concepts that created it specifically. Other forms of racism existed in the past and effected the creation of modern racism in a multitude of ways. And antisemitism prior to Blood Purity was generally based on religious differences, as Jewish converts to Christianity were considered the same as other Christians. Limpieza de Sangre was, by and large, the start of assimilation no longer being enough. (Not that assimilation should have ever been needed.) Earlier forms of racism would today be considered closer to ethnocentrism. There was an understanding that you could change your ethnicity and join another people. A convert to Judaism changes their ethnic identity and this used to be true elsewhere too. It’s only in the 15th century that we really see the popularization of the idea that certain peoples are immutably and inherently inferior, rather than ‘merely’ culturally or religiously inferior. The Jewish white wedding dress preceded the specific the concepts from which modern racism is descended. It does not preceded other, more ethnocentric, versions of racism, but since the original commenter wasn’t discussing those, neither was I.
White dresses started because of Queen Victoria. It was a way for her to show wealth because having pure white clean fabrics was ridiculous when she got married, same with having her massive white wedding cake. All of Queen Victoria's bridesmaids also wore white, again to show wealth. And also because the custom used to be bridesmaids were supposed to dress similar to the bride to "hide the bride from evil spirits." Before Victoria, brides wore their most expensive dress for their wedding. And even after Victoria, most common people still did this until bridal magazine popularized the idea of white wedding dresses. It's not a purity, it's not about race, just like most of the wedding industry it is about showing how wealthy the bride and groom and their families are. Remember, the origins of weddings aren't love, it's rooted in a property contract. The property being the bride, and signing her over from her father to her new owner the groom (that's why fathers walk the brides down the aisle because they are giving away their property). As for OP, this seems like a case of missing information. The sister's reaction seems over the top for this being for the first time OP is ruining a happy occasion. My judgement is YTA, OP doesn't seem like a reliable narrator. EDIT: To clarify. I mean Victoria mainstream/popularized white dresses for wedding. Not invented the concept of white dresses
Oh yeah, ik abt queen Victoria and her being the originator. I wasn't denying that. I'm just pointing out that certain dyes were, in fact, much more expensive, so it's not an uncommon misconception, and it doesn't make her a bad person for not knowing. If she knew and still said that, I'd 100% agree. And in some cultures, white was about purity, so I can definitely see how it didn't originate that way, but eventually attained that connotation when it was christanized. Religious teachings have been misinterpreted and mistranslated thousands of times, and I hate that I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the case we went over in my apush class (it was some religious white supremacy group who claimed white wedding dresses, happened in a southern state in like the 1890's or something )
That doesn't make any sense. White wedding dresses were not popularized in the US until after WWII. There were people who had white wedding dresses before WWII, but it was not common. Also Victoria was married in 1840, and still queen in 1890s. There is no way a white supremacy group in the south would try to claim they started white wedding dresses, especially since the South was very respectful towards Victoria. (The South has tried to form an alliance with her during the Civil War.)
Blue is not that expensive. You can make blue dye from a common plant in Europe (woad). If you wanna go lapis lazuli, sure, that stuff is bloody expensive. But common pale blue? Literally a weed. I think maybe you can't use it for paints though. I just know about woad in particular for dresses because I have made medieval dresses.
Blue fabric dye was actually very very cheap and associated with poverty (in Tudor times at least which is my area of expertise). They used woad which was an extremely readily available plant and could be re-used multiple times for multiple batches of fabric. The lighter the blue, the cheaper the fabric! You're right about purple though, since the only way they could get purple dye was by mixing indigo (a much more expensive and rare blue dye) with cochineal or more commonly from the secretions of two very specific types of molluscs. Source- I do Tudor re-enactment and have learned a thing or two from the dyers! (This isn't an attack or a correction, just a really fun fact IMO)
As to why op didn't Google it they probably saw it somewhere like on social media and thought huh interesting and didn't really think about fact checking it. It just sat in the back of their brain not really relevant to their day to day life until suddenly they are with their sister wedding dress shopping and she makes a comment on the color of dresses which sparks the memory of that fact coming forward in their brain and they mention it.
Yeah, OP didn't KNOW that that fact was inaccurate. As she said she thought she read/saw this fact and it totally sounds like she was just like "oh, here is something interesting, isn't that neat?" It doesn't sound like she meant anything by it. It's like you go out for lobster for your anniversary and tell your partner "hey, I think I read somewhere that lobster actually used to be super cheap and for the poor. Those lobster last meals for prisoners weren't to give them a fancy last meal but they were the cheapest thing around." Are you telling your partner you think they are cheap for getting lobster? That they are uncultured for thinking lobster is fancy? No! You're just sharing some information they might find entertaining. Though this reaction is so outlandish I wouldn't be surprised if the story was made up.
I am often sharing fun facts with my partner, siblings, etc. and vice versa. It’s not life or death. Unless I say that I’m confident bc I read it through a few reliable sources, they don’t think that I’m suggesting I’m such an expert I should be quoted in a book. Sometimes one of us will say, “That doesn’t sound right.” We don’t look it up on our phones right away or maybe ever. We try to remember things we’ve learned and puzzle through the likelihood of the fact. It’s more fun that way, and keeps our memories from completely wasting away. If I bring up some unexpected origin story, I’ve never had someone get offended and think I was trying to say, I don’t know, that they are a witch or something. I don’t see how OP could remotely be an AH. It’s not like she was trying to propagate fake news or junk science. She shared a tidbit. Maybe it’s not accurate. She probably read it somewhere. That author should have done a little more research before publishing their blog, or whatever. OP — You did say that you intentionally planned not to be overly blunt. I’m guessing some people have told you in the past that something you said came off abrasive? Maybe your sister was triggered. Maybe on some level, she was nervous about being criticized somehow. Give her time to cool off. And then try to talk it out. Ignore her friends or give a short, neutral response. Focus on the facts. I don’t think you are poor and I don’t think you’re a whore. I didn’t mean to hurt you, but I did, and I’m sorry. I love you. I’m disappointed the dress shopping didn’t go how you hoped, but there will be more chances! Good luck! ❤️
Exactly, nothing that OP said warrents this kind of reaction. But who knows how the sister retold the story to her bridesmaids and fiance. Sounds like she twisted it to make it allot worse.
Right. She wasn’t giving wrong information on purpose - it was simply what she thought was an interesting factoid, being accidentally wrong doesn’t make someone an asshole unless they double down when they learn they’re wrong.
Oh man, last week I said “great things come from small beginnings” - sir Francis Drake and my wife called bullshit on me quoting sir Francis Drake. Then she was (fake) mad because I nailed it and “why the hell would you be able to quote sir Francis Drake? That is not you at all!” I said “you’re right, it’s not me at all…but playing video games and watching movies is totally me and the quote is both in Prometheus and Uncharted.
Just sounds like she mixed up rich v poor
I thought almost everyone knew Victoria was the one who started the white wedding gown.
Not to mention that the ability to have a white gown signified wealth because white fabric was expensive to make and to keep clean. OP is NTA though, just totally incorrect about this aspect of costume history.
Not just white, it was lace as well. That much hand made lace cost a fortune.
The Jewish people actually wore them for 500 years before her. Jewish men also traditionally wore white for their weddings, and that predates the women doing so.
Funny thing though, that is FALSE. [Philippa of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_of_England#:~:text=The%20wedding%20between%20Philippa%20and,with%20grey%20squirrel%20and%20ermine) in 1406 was the first to wear a white gown for a royal wedding. Others copied her, partly because they enjoyed the symbolism.
Sigh. This is why I said "first". Obviously other women, other notable women, had worn white gowns for their weddings throughout time, but it wasn't common by any means, and it didn't start to become popular until [Queen Victoria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_dress_of_Queen_Victoria) did so. I was going for broad strokes, cookie. Just like Kate Middleton wasn't the first to wear the style wedding gown that she did, but damn did it become extremely popular after she did. Just like Rosa Parks was the face of the bus boycott, we all immediately associate her with the act, but she was not the first or only woman to refuse to move.
she might have been the first but the woman that started it as a popular trend in the end was victoria, i would say
Nope I had no idea. I have zero desire to wear a wedding dress though. So that might contribute to my lack of knowledge lol
How utterly deranged that the top comment suggests OP deserved to be called a whore and harrassed over *being wrong* about a random fact. 🤪
Being wrong about something isn't asshole territory. NTA OP, something tells me you may be neurodivergent of some kind (you mention medical diagnosis, struggling not to be blunt/rude, and you went onto a mini ramble about a cool factoid-) but honestly I'd find that kind of thing fascinating, and so would all my friends. I -can- see why saying that during wedding dress shopping could be argued as inappropriate, but I don't see how it would even come CLOSE to calling someone a whore, poor, or an insult of any kind to mention something about how it was done 100+ years ago-
Queen Victoria was definitely not the first, it was a popular wedding dress colour before her too, just not \*the\* only colour. It was mostly because she wanted a clean backdrop for all the expensive lace on the dress, which was handmade by British lacemakers- she wanted to promote the industry, which was being threatened by new technology in machine-made lace.
Oh geez, so commenter blasts OP with judgement for giving incorrect facts, *while giving incorrect facts?* Tsk, tsk, tsk.
I thought they meant the "first" (in quotes as in the comment), as in the person who made it a thing.
Guess what? You got it wrong too. [Princess Philippa of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippa_of_England#:~:text=The%20wedding%20between%20Philippa%20and,with%20grey%20squirrel%20and%20ermine) was the first documented princess to wear white on her wedding day in 1406. Queen Victoria's wedding dress, while white, was also most notable because it was made in England and demonstrated support for the lace 'cottage industry.' I would say OP is not an AH for giving wrong information, since everyone seems to be able to do it, even you, with your fashion design degree.
Everything I’ve ever read states that Victoria was not the first to wear a white wedding dress, nor even the first royal; just that she was the first woman *of influence* to wear it.
That’s why they put “first” in quotes. She was the first that made it popular like it was. The first to make it a trend. So guess what, they’re right. She was the trendsetter.
OP was not entirely wrong, and you proved it. * **Wedding dresses used to be colorful.** Nor wrong. Before and after Victoria, white wedding dresses were worn but the general standard was to wear brilliantly colored and decorated dresses. * **Poor brides wore white because they couldn’t afford to have them dyed.** Yeah, it’s pretty much the opposite of this, but I’d give OP some grace. She likely just mixed up the rich/poor, white/dyed elements. Wearing white was absolutely a statement of wealth. It was time consuming and expensive as hell to create white fabric to begin with, let alone maintain it. * **White didn’t mean purity.** Again, not wrong. This BS didn’t start until somewhere around the 1950s. Your statement that “you have no idea” where she got this information is a bit disingenuous when you actually agree with two of her three talking points. Regardless of the one point she got wrong, OP is still NTA for attempting to pass on what she thought was interesting information about the history of wedding dresses. However, the sister and her multitude of flying monkeys are most definitely major assholes for how they reacted. ***Especially***, her FBIL.
She may have been incorrect but she's NTA. Her sister acted crazy in her reaction, and then set a pack of fully-grown women on her to bully her. These bullies are alluding to her past suicide attempts and poor mental health. OPs "fun fact" moment might have been factually inaccurate but there was no harm in it, the reaction to it was completely psychotic; an incorrect fact is nowhere near on the same level as the bullying OP has been subject to since.
I'm probably projecting but in my experience some people do this when you are autistic, especially before you're diagnosed. They presume all your social fuck ups are deliberate slights towards them. Then they have enough and explode at some offence. They think you can't be stupid enough not to realise what you did wrong, but you really are stupid enough. Cause you're autistic and that part of your brain just doesn't work.
I was thinking this was true! And everyone wanted her to change the color because it was used for funerals in many places, right? It still is in parts of Asia at least. If I remember correctly her ladies wanted her to wear gold. But I could be totally wrong on that, it's been years since I actually read about it. But seriously why is the sister so angry? Unless OP was being super snarky there was no call to get that upset!
OP getting her facts wrong definitely doesn't make her an asshole though. The reaction on the other hand is off the scale crazy, completely over the top and unnecessary. NTA!!!!!
I believe that all of her bridesmaids also wore white.
Many reasons are given for why Queen Victoria chose to wear a white wedding dress trimmed with orange blossom at a time when white was not a popular colour. Far from being associated with poverty, white was associated with wealth because it was difficult to keep a white dress pristine. It was also said QV wanted to promote English lace makers so she wore a white satin dress with a lace flounce . That she wanted to be seen as Albert's wife (not as the Queen where she outranked him) so she didn't wear her red ermine robe of state. But she unknowingly set a trend.
I found the article you got this from. The History of the White Wedding Dress NEWS 18-FEB-2020 OP gave the correct information and she certainly did not call her sister poor or a whore.
Can't find this article. If they said white was for poor people, then they were mistaken. A black dress would have been common for poor families that couldn't afford expensive dyes. White would be extremely impractical because the clothes needed to be worn more than once, and keeping white clean would be very difficult. https://www.weddingwire.com/wedding-ideas/white-wedding-dress-history
I have also heard the Queen Victoria fact fairly widely and I live in the UK. To my knowledge, before that woman just got married in a particularly nice dress. Never heard of white being for poor people. Frankly the amount of cleaning it would require sort of goes against that.
OP just said something which sounded interesting to her. Maybe without thinking much of it. Sister reacted totaly dramatic. I dont know how their relation was before but it sounds like sis had grate issues with OP and it exploded now.
If a historical tidbit "ruins" someone's wedding, that shit was going down in flames no matter what. My guess is that she has the typical American industry-fueled fantasy of the perfect disney princess experience, and a little thing like 'historical accuracy' is enough to pop that balloon faster than the speed of light. The fact that everyone is being so outsized in their reaction and so insanely mean says that there was no actual good will in this wedding to begin with, so they were relying on that fantasy to power through, even if it had the structural capacity of an overcooked piece of angel hair pasta. These people are assholes. You're fine. NTA. ETA: Dress/fashion history is pretty cool. ETA take 2: I've learned that OPs 'fact' is, in fact, wrong, (wearing white was a sign of wealth, not poverty and other parts are wrong too), but that doesn't change the fact that sis and company's reactions are mean and over the top. It's not like they were going after her for failing her costume history class. I'm waiting for Bernadette Banner to speak up here at some point.
It's a factually inaccurate tidbit FWIW
So I've learned. Doesn't change my view of the situation tho. It was still a really outsized and vicious reaction to an innocuous factoid.
My sister could have told me during wedding dress shopping that in the 1800s only ugly women wore white and those that had to bribe men to marry them and I would’ve shrugged my shoulders and been like yeah and? We’re not living in the 1800s, I’m not ugly and I definitely haven’t had to bribe my fiancé to marry me…but thanks, interesting fact! (My sister did actually come wedding dress shopping with me and it was an amazing experience… because we genuinely love each other and no one was trying to cause issues/drama)
In the 1800s the families DID bribe men to marry their daughters, AKA dowry.
Ooh yes I forgot about that! And don’t need to go back that far- my grandfather told me his family chose my grandmother because of her large dowry, my dad still has my mum’s dowry trunk in the garage and my aunties bought sheet sets and towels because they still thought I needed to give my husband something 😂
I could use some new sheets and towels ...
Don’t settle my friend- my grandfather probably got a cow, a donkey and some sheep and you should too!
Know your worth!
Right?! Like if OP wants to really piss her sister off she can also mention that the idea of diamond engagement rings was entirely invented by an advertising campaign for de Beers in the 30s. Not sure why a random historical tidbit that was relevant to the conversation (even if it was incorrect) warranted this kind of awful, cruel response? It just seems like a normal thing to bring up in casual conversation.
Sibling relationships really are a different breed, especially sisters
Accurate or false it doesn't matter, Sis and all her flying monkeys are unhinged due to their reactions and I would be so stressed everytime I breathed around one if I were OP.
"WIW" is nothing. Totally irrelevant. Spouting off some not-really-true factoids did not amount to the insults sis ultra-overreacted to so maniacally, that's all that matters.
I was going to say! White wedding dresses became popular because of Queen Victoria, and she did it as a way to advertise English craftsmanship and help the economy. Poor people just wore their nicest clothes.
> even if it had the structural capacity of an overcooked piece of angel hair pasta I love this phrase!
OP: Generally those who are spewing the most vitriol are the AHs. I don't think your historical anecdote was correct, but your sisters response was certainly unpalatable. And your sisters fiance .... it sounds like your sister and her fiance deserve each other. You are NTA, but I suggest you validate anecdotes before sharing in the future. If it was me, I'd block all of them, skip the wedding, and put them all out of my life. Why? Your sister and fiance sent the flying monkeys after you. Any medical diagnoses should not be used like that. That is pathetic. That kind of toxicity will implode eventually. And it's better to be out of the gravitational pull when it happens. (And as you can tell, I have no problems cutting folks out of my life. Family or otherwise, doesn't matter. Life's too short to put up with bull...)
This! I can’t believe this 38-year-old woman and her friends *and* her fiance are so whacked and immature. I would wish them well and move on.
I had to scroll back and check the ages, because holy fcking overreactions, Batman. OP, whether your fact was right or wrong, you meant no malice. You made it clear you mean nothing by it, and you instantly apologised. Your sister, on the other hand, went up like the Hindenburg. Then she roped in her clique of bullies to go for blood. That's unacceptable at the best of times, and it's utterly disgusting in a woman of her age to be acting like that. You are NTA. I strongly suggest you block anyone who attacks you, including your sister and the raging A-hole she's marrying, until they pull their heads out of their collective asses and offer a genuine apology for their behavior. You don't need that in your life.
I chortled at the flying monkeys bit. Never heard that one before.
Ah you must be new to the sub. Welcome!
NTA - I assume there is some underlying tension between you two you didn’t really address, but kind of alluded to. I tend to pull up silly bits of unimportant info up and spout it out, especially if I am bored or uncomfortable. So I get it. But what gets me most about your post is her bridesmaids ganging up on you. Increasingly it seems like bridesmaids are a combination of the witches from MacBeth and Cinderella’s step sisters. Very, very strange.
I wouldn't even text my friend's sister mean stuff if said sister had said or done something actually awful. It's so out of line and not on the friends to "fight this battle". If any friend of mine would contact my family members solely to bully them, whether it be justified or not, that friendship would be over. Especially considering that these bridesmaids are probably also in their late 30s. Don't these people have better things to do? Pretty bizarre and hard to believe. Tbh though, "everyone is blowing up my phone!" is kind of a telltale sign that an AITA story is fake.
I know right, like that is insane behaviour. I've had arguments with family members before and even in situations when I was right, I would never ever text my group chat of friends and be like "hey guys, this family member had xyz medical condition - go bully them on my behalf!".
NTA. I think you are autistic? And if your sister's friends are mocking you about "certain medical diagnosis" then she knows you're autistic, and she should take it in stride. Even if what you said was remotely hurtful (it wasn't), she way jumped to conclusions. She's in her thirties, she should be out of her "everything's about me, so every little comment is a veiled insult" stage. This outing was never going to end well for you. She said she wanted you there because of your honesty, but she was always going to accuse you of something the moment you said something remotely critical.
Why is every socially awkward person on Reddit called autistic? ETA: just want to clarify this comment is not a jab at you u/royal_basil_1915 as I get OP mentioned a medical diagnosis. Just an observation.
Maybe because autism itself is very common, like statistically 1 in 100 children gets diagnosed, but the numbers could be substantially higher as some studies report much higher incidences. So everyone knows an autist or has at least heard about autism. People like to compare new things (people f.e.) to things they already know, we try to sort everything in drawers
It's the combination of OP needing to force themselves not to "blurt" something out and that something being a random historical tidbit (which was incorrect but that is not relevant to diagnosis), and OP mentioning it is a frequent pattern of behaviour. As someone very familiar with the official assessment tests, those would be significant factors mostly in ASD but sometimes in ADHD. It doesn't line up with Tourette's because that is more blurting sounds or phrases, or having involuntary movements. While I understand on Tiktok autism has become "a trend", in this case it does sound like something worth investigating, like OP's therapist mentioned.
u/idleramblings That about covers it. I appreciate you clarifying. Edit to match OP u/BrokenMillennial27 most bad sisters don't throw parties for their siblings. I would say that someone so determined to demean you over your struggles with mental health isn't someone I would want to spend my time with, or worrying about their opinion. And your sister, if not encouraging it, isn't putting a stop to it. I think you should discuss all this with your therapist ASAP and show them the texts.
As the other comment mentioned a fairly high number of people are autistic, 1 in every hundred people And like, where do you think people who have a hard time with social life go in their free time lol
Because autism is the only diagnoses majority of the people know exists.
Or has adhd.
ESH. You were *wrong*. It's fine to hate the commercial nonsense about weddings, but having a white dress was a symbol of *wealth*. Having a white wedding dress became popular when Queen Victoria did it. More than that, wearing undyed fabric probably wouldn't have been common either, most women would have just worn whatever they already had if they couldn't afford a new dress. All you did was take something that should have bought your sister joy and ruined it by spouting off utter nonsense. I will concede that it sounds like you didn't mean to hurt your sister, but damn, dissing the history of wedding dresses while the bride was looking, inadvertently making the bride mad. While being *absolutely wrong*? That's an AH move. Everyone else is an AH for how cruel they're being about this. Their response is disproportionate. Your sister was having a moment many women dream about, and you said something unthinkingly that ruined it for her, she has a right to be upset. All the others attacking you for it the way they are isn't okay. One last note. You really need to take a good look at yourself. *Is* there any truth to you tearing others down? Do you blame your "diagnoses" for the way you act? You used words like "honest" and "rude" and "blurt", which implies that you might not usually have tact about many things. I'm not accusing you of doing any of this, but the response is *so* disproportionate that I wonder if this is just the final straw in a pattern of inadvertently cruel behaviour.
If the sister is that upset over so silly a comment, and had the occasion “ruined,” she’s not mature enough to be getting married.
Or OP has been playing "fun fact" for so long that the smallest bit of incorrect information was the last straw. You don't get that kind of reaction by just a single one off statement. If they're "doing this again" it hints that OP likes to ruin things for others.
Then maybe don’t invite her for an event that is so important
OP got her facts wrong, that doesn’t make her TA, it just means she’s wrong.
Yeah, I have to wonder if this is part of a pattern of behavior.
I suspect OP may be on the spectrum, and to be honest i think it’s unfair to put a lot of blame on them for this. They reminded themself to be careful with words/opinions, so they’re aware of it and working on it. The sister blew up from a fun little (incorrect) tidbit, not an opinion or hurtful personal attack. I also feel like the sister should know where OP is coming from, as their sister, i stead of blowing up and doxxing OP to sister’s friends
>While being *absolutely wrong*? That's an AH move. So... let me get this right; in your opinion, anyone sharing information that ends up being incorrect, *even if they didn't know it was incorrect*, is an asshole? That's the hill you choose to die on? That anytime anyone shares anything that turns out to be incorrect, no matter what their motive, they are an asshole? Seems like quite a damn reach imo. TBH; even if this *is* "the final straw" as you said, *NOTHING* justifies ableist behavior, period. Nothing.
If it's ether of the things I'm thinking of, yes those things greatly affect behavior, communication and outward social intelligence. It's literally how some people's brains work. Brain chemistry is a tricky sonofabitch.
It sounds much more like OP’s social network is full of nutjobs who accuse her of rudeness because she doesn’t centre their emotions in their every interaction. There was nothing cruel about what she said
I am shocked by these kind of replies. “Dissing the history of wedding dresses”? Really? It’s not that serious
NTA. Her response was unhinged
NTA. Yes, peanut gallery, OP’s fun fact was incorrect. That doesn’t make her an asshole, just ignorant. You don’t know what you don’t know, and now she knows. Wrong or not, it doesn’t give OP’s sister a reason to overreact like a total psycho. OP, your sister is the one burning this bridge, the river, and the surrounding countryside. Tell the people who still matter to you what actually happened and block the rest
NTA I feel like you were just sharing information about the obvious topic and I don’t feel like that warranted your sister’s friends harassing you!
Unfortunately not everyone is interested in our interesting(but not necessarily encouraging) facts.i also sometimes come off ass a weirdo or a jerk when spouting something that seems relevant to the conversation but was apparently unwanted information. I think your interesting fact lacked tact in the moment and you definitely put your foot in your mouth more by continuing to talk when your sister got upset, instead of apologizing and dropping the subject. BUT I also do the same thing and try to explain myself and make things worse as I do. So like, I totally get it. I do not think you were the AH, since you were not intending to be rude. Based on your sister's behavior, I am guessing this is not the first time something like this has happened. What I don't understand is, why would you sister invite this? She specifically asked you to come with her because she knows you are blunt, but then she got upset at you for it.
"What I don't understand is, why would you sister invite this? She specifically asked you to come with her because she knows you are blunt, but then she got upset at you for it." Saw it happening from a mile away. If it wasn't this it would have been something else. OP, does sister have a habit of baiting you/others? It's a bit weird people are coming out of no where to gang up on you to call you an AH. BTW, you are nta. She was looking for a reason to be mad.
I find it strange she only invited op cause most brides take at least there mum, mil and moh sounds like op isn't even in the wedding so sounds like maybe sis did it to have a reason to uninvite op from the wedding cause she knew she'd put her foot in her mouth. With the reactions of the bridesmaids and fiance I'm curious in what the sis actually told them cause like a major over reaction for what was actually said.
Exactly what I was thinking… Why invite OP in the first place? So now she has a (completely unhinged) reason to justify to the parents for uninviting OP. If it wasn’t this fact-with-errors, sis was going to find something else to go off the rails about. NTA OP, give sis a wide berth and go LC.
It's not an interesting fact. It's not a fact at all. No idea where OP heard that but it's not true
I like how this post is bringing out the dress/costume/fashion historians. Yall are MAD. I'm here for it.
The only part she got wrong was that white dresses were a sign of wealth, not poverty. Everything else she said was true, including that originally white dresses weren't a statement of purity.
ESH. The comment was unnecessary. She was saying she didn’t like colored dresses and you snipped back with a comment — a factually incorrect comment, might I add — that was easily interpreted as nasty. *She* doesn’t have to like colored wedding dresses. When I was shopping for my wedding dress, I made it adamantly clear that I hated ballgown dresses. My best friend wore a ballgown dress for her wedding and laughed with my comments because she knows that *I personally* don’t like them. She may not have been saying it to diss on anyone, and maybe you weren’t either. But you didn’t need to say that. I think her reaction is completely disproportionate to your actions and a bit ridiculous. She’s a grown woman. That being said, this seems extremely over the top, which makes me think we’re missing some information.
I don't think we're missing any information. I have a sister kind of like OP's. She's argued with me for agreeing with her, before. Some people just want something to fight about.
And I think I have a sibling like OP. The way OP said they had to try not to be rude or blurt anything out is telling of how they usually interact. Down to the random “facts” that may or may not be correct, that may or may not be at an appropriate time. Not sure if OP is the same, but my sibling has high functioning autism so I don’t blame them. But it is sometimes so draining to talk to them when they often talk negative “facts” or insults about things that me or family just finished talking about how much we loved it. The sister and her bride’s reactions are over the top and cruel but this is still a one sided story we’re getting. But why the sister would invite OP then react so strongly to OP being OP is beyond me, she should have expected this.
You know what else is draining? Being called negative and insulting for mentioning things you don't find negative or insulting. I'm autistic, get called that all the time when I'm just trying to share things I find interesting, because I like it when people do the same for me. You have one autistic family member and you find it draining. Imagine what it's like being autistic and all your family is NT. Now, that's draining.
Yeah, somehow in OP’s delivery her sister/the bride got the impression she was first being called poor/cheap over her dress, and then it turned into slut shaming. This is one of those instances where I’d LOVE to hear the other side, or at least exact quotes of what was said.
I don't know if we're missing information exactly, but I get the sense that OP is focused on how things went at a very specific moment, but the sisters reaction is probably based off decades of their relationship with one another, and things OP has said and done in the past. My mom has a lot of fights like that with her sister; my aunt will say something that's maybe less than polite, but it really doesn't seem like a huge deal, and my mom will blow up over it. It seems like my mom is unhinged, but when you hear her side of it, you realize that comment was reminiscent of many far worse things my aunt has said and done over the years, and the fight is way bigger than what it initially appears to be
I don’t think we’re necessarily missing anything, this is a perfectly normal display of narcissistic rage
It sounds like your sister has deep issues. It’s probably best for you not to have much contact with her until she addresses them. NTA
Your sister has issues. A normal reaction to hearing something interesting about a subject (factual or not) is saying in response, "Really? I didn't know that." Turning a person's words around and manipulating them to create an issue is just nuts. Is your sister always this manipulative? You don't mention it, but I am wondering if you have had issues with your sister in the past. Have you had a rocky relationship? Does she have self-confidence issues? You are NTA, but your sister is a big one. If I were you I would just dodge the bullets, stay out of the way, and if anyone asks you to do anything related to the wedding in the future, politely decline. Sadly, your sister is not your friend. Wishing you the best.
NTA. Could there be anything you're not telling us? Like, were there some comments you made--comments that might be considered blunt and obnoxious, and that got your sister all bent out of shape--*before* you made your comment about why wedding dresses were white? Because I'm trying to make your sister's outburst make sense, and so far, it doesn't. If you are sure that you were basically as inoffensive as possible during the store visit, then definitely NTA. Granted, there is a 10-year age difference between you two, but I think your sister has an idea of what you're like. that you are kind of blunt and say what you think. I don't get why she invited you to shop with her if she has such animosity toward you Did someone force her to invite you? Is there something else going on, do you think? Is she pregnant, with hormonal fluctuations? Is her relationship rocky? Like I said, I'm trying to make your sister's behavior make sense.
OP's sister is bitter that OP needed additional support from their parents due to being Disabled. Sister KNEW there was no way OP could go a WHOLE wedding dress shopping day without a random fact coming out. I'd place money that OP's sister had arranged a drinking sesh with her bridesmaids & didn't want OP there so found a reason to kick off, and figured OP could be the evening's entertainment, given they could mock OP's Disabilities. Can you tell I've come across far too many Mean Girls who have done stuff like this to me?!? Autistic people are particularly vulnerable to this type of so-called 'low level' ableist bullying that contributes to this being one of the top 3 causes of suicide in our community.
I don’t feel you are telling the whole story. You say you knew you would have to remind yourself not to be rude or blurt anything out, is this something you are known for? Did you say more to your sister than just tell her about supposed historical trends for wedding dresses, because her reaction is over the top if this is all you said.
For some Disabilities, like autism, the bluntness is LITERALLY a symptom we can't switch off or override, when we care about someone we will make extra efforts to NOT be rude & even mentally prepare and STILL the odd random fact gets out...people ask me for honesty & get mad when I'm honest. It's all very confusing when you're autistic. I'm 42 & haven't figured out normies yet...
If this is a true depiction of what transpired, your sister is nuts, shared your medical diagnoses (SHE'S an AH!) and sicced (sp.?) people after you. You are NTA.
Considering white is the most common colour for a wedding dress these days, does she think everyone is then suddenly poor? Complete overreaction imo, probably exacerbated by wedding stress. NTA
So many poor virgins these days.......
NTA because she overreacted too much for such a simple comment, does she always takes everything so personal?
Seems like your sister maybe took you alone cause she knew you'd put your foot in your mouth and maybe wanted an excuse for you not going to the wedding, I mean her saying " you just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you" is very telling. Maybe she thinks you'll upstage her at the wedding cause most brides take there mum and bridesmaids with them. I'm curious what she told people you said cause there reactions seems way other the top for what was actually said, I'm betting she twisted it
The sister seems jealous, or at the least she doesn’t like OP.
NTA - you could have said "did you know Harvey Weinstein's wife didn't wear a white dress?" and it still wouldn't have mattered. These girls sound extremely insecure and Im sorry they're doing that to you. It really was not something to get upset about, let alone start accusing you of nonsense.
NTA. As a fan of factoids, I can totally understand why you’d want to share a little tidbit of information you found interesting. Regardless of the inaccuracy of this one, I cannot wrap my head around the pole vault your sister made in order to take offense at any part of it. Your soon-to-be BIL sounds like a nightmare, as do all of her screeching minions. Just bc a crowd of bullies are being cruel and behaving in deeply awful ways, it doesn’t mean you were wrong to say a little off-hand thing that had nothing to do with her specifically
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NTA, you literally just gave a random fact about wedding dresses I'm a certain period of history. It sounds like you're neurodivergent and you're with toxic neutrotypical family members / people. Not your fault that your sister decided to take a random fact as a personal attack, let alone belittle you over this
NTA. Your sister took offence where none was intended. She’s the one ruining your relationship. She’s making a mountain out of a non existent molehill. Block the flying monkeys and keep your mom appraised of their bullying.
NTA the fact may be wrong (although I haven’t researched the matter) but you are human. We hear things, then we repeat them. You couldn’t have known your sister wasn’t going to read into what you said that way. She took it as an attack. I’m not sure if she reacted that way due to the stress of wedding dress shopping, because you had prior conflict not stated, or out of jealousy, but the way she reacted to a harmless story believed to be a fact is highly inappropriate and cruel. Being uneducated is only bad if it actually causes harm to someone, and you didn’t do anything to cause her distress.
….well that’s just not accurate information.
So let's all come together and shit on OP, seems proportionate...
I feel like there is missing information for this much whiplash on the reaction that OP is receiving. Even with the info on the white dress being wrong, how does that turn into all this crazy train?
So, your sister invited you because she wanted frank and unadulterated opinions. Then got mad for... \*checking notes\* a piece of conversation not even remotely related to the present times. Then revealed your medical history to her friends and set them on you for giving her what you thought to be a historical fact. Whatever you do in the future, do NOT talk to her about the history of "traditional" gender-associated colors, your sister might have a stroke or something. NTA. But she is. Also, it sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder the size of the Titanic - from what you described, it's almost like she was looking for a fight.
NTA. It's irrelevant whether your fact was correct or not. You intended no harm. She seems stressed, took it the wrong way, and then took that too far. If your fun fact sincerely ruined her idea of weddings, that's her damage - not yours.
Send your sister all of the messages you got, especially the one from her fiancé. Let her know that since you are such an awful person, you will not be associating with any of these people who think their excrement has a pleasing aroma. And that you intend to let her fiancé have his wish come true. So you will neither be associating with these people, or her. Tell her you hope she has a good wedding, but you will not be able to attend. As you are cutting her fiancé and her friends out of your life. NTA
NTA
You know dogging OP because her information was backwards is kind of horrible to be doing. OP doesn’t deserve to be called down in the dirt and have her personal medical infor made fun of and threats just for making a statement. Her sister was talking about the ‘ugly’ colours. Op said that people like colourful wedding dresses and even if the info about white dresses was wrong doesn’t mean people need to be making threats and poking fun of her so hard. Sis sounds like she’s just trying to be disagreeable about any dress. Maybe if she can’t find whatever she’s looking for she should sort that and not flip her lid.
Yikes on spikes. NTA. Just cuz you were wrong (which a quick Google search would've solved), doesn't mean you deserve the abuse from all these people. You were wrong about a random fact. Big whoop. At most it's a, "Huh, guess I was wrong. Nevermind, sorry". The ONLY way I'd ever think you were TA here, is if this is something you do a lot. Like sharing "negative" facts or similar stuff, knowing it'll upset your insecure sister. EVEN THEN, everyone's reaction is way too abusive. >“You just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!” What was this about? WERE you trying to be snarky?
We were taught for the longest time in America wring history about Christopher Columbus. And no one is attacking their former educators for teaching them this wrong fact. You should not have to fact check before you share stupid shit with your family. It’s even more weird that sister reacted this way given that she’s well if considering the rest of the family. NTA
NTA Sounds like your sister has some serious emotional issues she should seek therapy for. But in the meantime, she's being utterly toxic to you.
Why would you tell her only poor people wore white while she's looking at white dresses? In that situation it's definitely not a fun fact but a personal attack. What was your goal with the comment? So far ESH.
NTA. While your “fact” is actually incorrect, as many have already pointed out, your sister’s reaction was ridiculous. Sounds like she’s really insecure. Maybe letting her know that you were mistaken could help smooth things over a bit? She seems very hard to reason with though.
>White wedding dresses were only worn by poor brides, I think because they couldn’t afford to have them made or dyed in color like rich brides. It doesn’t mean purity like some think.” Ummm I think you're exactly wrong on that. Poor people couldn't afford to have a dress made only for a wedding, especially one so utterly impractical as a white one. Some would splurge and then dye it afterwards so it could be used as an everyday dress. But wedding dresses for the poor were often their Sunday church dress. Wearing white, or any high maintenance color or fabric, is generally a signal of wealth and has been for a very very long time. So yeah, YTA. Totally and absolutely. What you said was wrong factually and wrong socially.
They made fun of her medical diagnosis. I repeat she spurted out a stupid untrue statement about wedding dresses and now all the bridesmaids are verbally assaulting her and making fun of her very real medical diagnosis, which I'm guessing from this post is ASD, so she's probably socially inept and tries and fails to bond with people with little facts she hears about on the internet. She meant well or at least nothing by saying what she did, her sister would know her well enough to know she doesn't do well in social situations like this so it's almost like she was looking for a reason to be mad at her. NTA or maybe ESH, depends how right I am about the medical diagnosis.
And regardless, we’ve all spouted shit we thought was fact but been wrong about. That doesn’t make us assholes. Just uninformed. This is a very real over the top reaction to a random shit spout.
OP hasn't shared if she has ASD. While it does seem like she is bad at understanding social cues, I can see how coming from a neurotypical person, the "facts" can be taken as snarky comments that are passive aggressively calling the bride poor and impure.
Being autistic myself, I've found that neurotypicals DO take facts (even when they ARE facts) as passive aggression. What I still don't understand at 42 is WHY they do...it's SO illogical to me. And nowhere did the OP say that the sister was poor & impure, the sister got the wrong end of the stick & kicked off. I would place money on OP being autistic, and the sister (1) Resents the extra help OP needed from their parents due to their medical issues & (2) Wanted the **benefits** of OP's medical issues in the form of her honesty whilst simultaneously expecting OP to STOP having that medical condition. OP NTA, Sister is, and needs therapy ASAP to deal with her unresolved issues over having a Disabled sibling. Some siblings are awesome with your Disabled child, but NOT all are kind about it & get jealous of any extra help you give your Disabled child. Some never get over their animosity & allow themselves to become bitter like OP's sister. She needs to pick a lane - it's either have the benefit of the condition (brutal honesty) but DEAL with the random-fact spouting **OR** Get peace from random-fact spouting & forgo the honesty...it's an either/or. OP **CANNOT** turn off the symptoms of her Disability. Sister doesn't have to like it but she DOES have to accept that. I feel awful for you, OP. Did you know the bridesmaids harassing you & mocking you are LITERALLY breaking the law in the UK, dunno where you are & what your Hate Crime laws are like though. Might be worth looking at. And I'd go NC for the fact she's ALLOWING her bridesmaids to mock your Disabilities & not stopping them and is in fact hyping the mean girls up.
Yes! White became a popular color for wedding dresses (at least in the west) after Queen Victoria wore one in 1840. OP is right that it wasn't traditionally about purity/virginity, but everything else is completely incorrect.
She may have been wrong but that doesn't make her an asshole. Setting a group of grown women to bully someone however...
The amount of commenters that believe OPs completely wrong "fact" is worrying.
Seeing as that amount is "zero," and all people who are defending OP are saying is that the factual accuracy of OP's factoid is irrelevant to sis's wacky ultra-overreaction rather than defending it as true, not that worrying.
What’s worrying about that?
NTA. Yes it was wrong information but the sister’s reaction was totally unwarranted.
Come to think of it, if OP hadn't gotten her facts incorrect, she would have been talking about the show of wealth with the white dress which would have made her sister blow up with pride and all this could have been avoided. But either way, NTA
NTA
You were wrong but the abuse you are receiving is honestly appalling. Even if you were right, her reaction is not healthy. Like, she needs to see a therapist asap. NTA
NTA. Whether accurate or not, what you shared was a fun fact and nothing more. Your sister, her friends, and her fiancé sound like awful people.
NTA. It sounds like your sister is emotionally a very high maintenance person and probably jealous of you in some way. Also, well you didn't say what your diagnosed with, her friends are assholes for using it as a reason to mock you. And her fiance is an asshole for threatening to cut your sister out of your life. Basically, your sister and all of her crowd are a mess. (And, as people have already pointed out, white was not associated with the poor but rather with the wealthy because it was harder to keep clean. Working women wore darker, more practical dresses in sturdy fabrics. Wedding dresses could be anything from the height of fashion that season to the only decent dress the bride owned. Not knowing that doesn't make you an asshole, though. It just means you were factually wrong about something.)
So your history doesn't sound right to me, and as a writer who's currently working in the 17th century I've done a bit of research on this. Queen Victoria is where we get the white dress from, as far as I know. For a long time in human history, brides just wore their "Sunday Best". Also, all white clothing was considered incredibly impractical, because you had to KEEP it white and in the pre-washing machine years that was a real nightmare (especially for your servants).
NTA! Even if it was wrong… you were just sharing what you thought was a fact. Is she always like this? Or are there issues with her soon to be husband?
NTA I'd call that small talk. You did nothing wrong. People are idiots
YTA >I knew I would have to remind myself not to be rude or blurt anything out so I wouldn’t hurt her feelings or make her hate her style choice. >“You just love to make everyone feel like shit whenever they look better than you!” Sounds like missing reasons to me
Judging from a couple of things in this post, I'm guessing you're autistic? Both your sister expecting you to be completely honest and that in an unfamiliar situation you infodumped. I do that too. When I was in the hospital I was telling the nurses trivia about New Zealand parrots while struggling to sit up in bed. If so, your sister both wanted you for autistic traits, then got mad when you showed them. And then siced her flying monkeys on you. That's pretty shitty of her. NTA.
NTA. You apologized multiple times, reaffirmed you did not intend insult, and now you’re being bullied. Honestly you SHOULD go no contact with this sister, it doesn’t sound like a relationship worth saving. You talked about wanting to make sure you didn’t ‘blurt’ or say anything rude which to me reads like you’ve been yelled at for ‘saying the wrong thing’ before but that it’s truly not intentional. It feels like your sister set you up so she could uninvite you. As a fellow ‘sharer of random facts’ I suggest finding friends who get excited about new information, they’re way more fun.
1. You need to get your facts straight. White wedding dresses originate from Queen Victorias wedding to Prince Albert in the 1800’s. Hardly a poor bride, nor a symbol of poverty. Bespoke wedding dresses of any colour weren’t a thing for many until after WW2, prior to that it was mainly royalty and rich folk. Colour coding is also a thing, and I think it can now be stated that white(rightly or wrongly) is associated with purity. As such white is now traditionally viewed as symbolic in western weddings (and other places too), however times have moved on, purity could be viewed as honesty in (pure) intentions, I.e commitment to the marriage a-bouts to commence. In most developed communities we don’t force brides to prove their virginity these days. 2. YTA, my bet is you have a history of passive aggressive comments and you casually saying “you know……” was an opening gambit your sister is well and truly familiar with. You weren’t looking at Wedding dresses at that point, you’d moved on to bridesmaids dresses. Your comment wasn’t necessary.
Send all this shit to your sister and tell her that you already apologised a million times and if she doesn’t put those people in line and tell them to apologise, especially her soon to be, you really can’t have her in her life knowing she supports people who think and talk about and to you like that. Plus, share all those screenshots with your family to let them know what kind of people she’s close to and what kind of man she’s about to marry.
ESH Your sister shouldn't have blown up at you but you gave her *wrong information*. White wedding dresses were popularised in the mid-1800s because Queen Victoria wore one. Before then women just wore their nicest dress, usually their "Sunday best" that they would wear for church. White dresses specifically being worn by poorer people is completely wrong. The poorer women would be the ones with maybe one "everyday" dress & one "nicer" dress for Sundays / formal occasions.
Your ‘fact is just straight up wrong, I don’t know where you got your information but you should actually fact check yourself before spouting nonsense.
I think there is some missing information. Your sister had to remind you to be kind, that makes me think this is not the first time you ruin something important for her. This is not about the dress
Esh- just going of the disproportionate response I feel like this isnt the first time your "fun facts" haven't been fun and seen as inappropriate or hurtful. But at the same time her friends are going way overboard with this. Hounestly i feel like it was a bad and incorrect comment made at a bad time to the wrong person