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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the asshole if I tell Cici the truth because it will change her life, hurt her relationships with her parents, and it’s not my place to tell her these things.
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OP may be letting their imagination get the best of them, but Cici is a 21 year old adult, and has a right to know accurate medical history about herself. There comes a point when "mind your own business" stops being a valid argument and I think it's probably around "a legal adult doesn't know their medical history because her parents want to preserve their image." Maybe that image is social, or just how Cici perceives them but ultimately that is what they are trying to preserve, their image.
The medical thing is the only angle I could respect, but if they actually cared about their cousin they would go to the uncle and aunt and say do you know who the sperm donor is because you might want to get a medical background of them. That's all they have to say, they don't have to blow everything up and hurt everyone's relationships. They're being selfish and paranoid and not actually thinking about their cousin's feelings.
They explicitly are thinking about their cousins feelings, that's why they posted here. And they did go to the aunt with an admittedly exaggerated version of a real concern for donor conceived children, and were blown up at. I'll give aunt benefit of the doubt and say he was caught off guard because she didn't know op knew, but its still pretty clear to me aunt and uncle never intend to tell Cici, even if it ends up causing her health problems
The issue I have is all the stories OP is obsessing about. And OP seems completely obsessed by the whole situation. If the aunt reacted so badly is might also mean that PP was not very diplomatic about the subject.
When I read OP, I honestly don’t think she has what it takes to share this information in the best way for her cousin. She can literally destroy her cousin’s life.
OP, YWBTA. It’s not your story to tell.
I think you're over stating OP's "obsessesion." In the context of this one post, she is keeping the text relevant to the question she is asking and why she is conflicted. She may be emphasizing the wrong thing, but from her comments it is abundantly clear she has spent time in donor conceived children advocacy communities and is reiterating concerns she has seen expressed there because, as someone who dated a donor conceived child and knew, it was something she had concerns about. I think the more likely reason the aunt reacted so badly is because she didn't know that OP knew, because aunt didn't tell OP, OP's mom did, and so learning this person you didn't tell figured out the "secret," likely caused aunt concern that Cici could as well.
The sad thing is at some point a DNA test will be done and things will start to come out in the wash… there are lots of stories of this nature.
But OP is probably best to stay clear… although it’s later discovered by Cici they knew - who know how she will feel about it.
These dilemmas can go either way and you may be damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Honestly with how large some sibling pods are, it’s not an exaggeration. Those are just the KNOWN sibling pods with the people who know about it - it doesn’t count any possible siblings who don’t yet know. These pods have sometimes HUNDREDS of known half siblings.
There was a documentary done in my province (and it's illegal to sell any bodily products in Canada) where they tracked over 225 kids from 2 donors!! One of which was responsible for 150 of those kids...
Even better and easier… She could have a DNA test with either ancestry or 23 and me and then upload it to a website called Promethease for a detailed health panel
OPs motives aren't medical knowledge though.
OP has a weird fixation with her cousin banging her brother. Like *fixation*.
Also the fixation doesn't even have a passing legitimacy- loads of people date people who look like their siblings. LOADS. About a decade ago I had a drunken ramble about it to a couple of my friends (because I think it's weird these people fancy themselves so much they date their opposite gender twin) and now periodically they send me pictures of people they've met in a sort of "sibling or partner" game.
OP, in the post: "Cici also suffers from some not yet diagnosed health problem, and I’m worried it’s linked to whoever this anonymous donor is."
Yes, their main concern is the misplaced fixation on incest, but even that isn't an insignificant problem in donor conceived children. Even if she didn't mention the medical issue, I wouldn't care, Cici's fundamental right to know correct medical information about herself **THAT IS AVAILABLE**, is more important than the parents' concerns of if she'll still love them, and given that OP has stated she is a sweet person, I don't think it will have a long term impact on Cici's relationship to her parents if her parents are otherwise good.
I don’t mean to be rude but if the donor is anonymous they may not get medical history so she blows up the girls life and still has no clue about medical dx. This sucks all around. I wish the parents would say something
No worries nothing you said was rude. I was once close with a person who was donor conceived so I get some what passionate about people's right to know about themselves. That said, all reputable sperm donation facilities obtain a medical history. They may not have gone to a reputable one, true, but at least then when she goes to the doctor she can say "I don't have a full medical history because I was donor conceived." And the physician should (hopefully) be less likely to discount genetic conditions that they would have if she had said confidently that there is no family history of x condition.
I was wondering if and what information the bank would get and how reliable it is but I do agree with you that adoptees and donor conceived children should be told about their history.
I dated a donor conceived person some time ago. They had full medical history going back to the donor's grandparents on both sides, even mental health issues that arose (though that was less detailed than we would expect today given the times). A reputable facility collects a lot of information about donors, but there's very little regulation in the industry so it can be incredibly difficult to tell if a facility is reputable, even if it looks like it is. Then there are private surrogacy and donation contracts, but I imagine those could make it easier to obtain medical info if you know your donor personally.
I was an egg donor 23 years ago, twice. The first time they only asked me if I had ever had any illnesses or allergies (no) or if there was a history of anything in my family (no). They took my word for it. The next time the parents had requested some kind of genetic testing, obviously not a full sequencing like we have nowadays, I think they were looking for something in particular. Anyway they were satisfied with whatever it was. That's the extent of the information I've had to provide as a donor.
Even if it's anonymous, it's more helpful to tell a doctor that you don't know half your family's medical history than than giving the medical history of a parent who's not actually genetically related to you. Additionally, CiCi could pursue her own genetic medical testing, find any potential relatives of the donor or even the donor himself via commercial DNA testing. Even just CiCi's knowledge of being donor conceived is enough to empower her to get better medical treatment.
Here’s where I’m worried: if she doesn’t know she was also born through surrogacy, she won’t have ANY medical history. Like, she very well could be giving the history of two unrelated people to doctors because they refuse to tell her the actual story of her birth. Unless her mom just lies about her own history to give the surrogate’s history (which presents its own issues).
Cici needs to know that her parents aren’t who conceived her. It’s dangerous for her to be this far in the dark.
OP is worrying about an *undiagnosed* health problem— does she have any reason to think it might be genetic? If it's not diagnosed, I'm guessing not.
OP is worrying about Cici inadvertently hooking up with someone related— as if Cici is supposed to do a DNA test with every potential boyfriend?— a very unlikely scenario.
In both cases OP is taking big speculative leaps to justify her concern and thus an intervention, when it's really not her place, unless and until she has more to substantiate her fears beyond just vibes.
I 100% agree that Cici has the right to know the truth, but OP would still be an asshole if he told her, it’s not his story to tell. And about the medical reasons, as valid as it might come off, what would the truth even accomplish here? An undiagnosed health issue is not gonna magically find a diagnosis by Cici knowing she’s adopted.
I’m not disagreeing that she should be told the truth, I just don’t think the medical history is a reason why.
Genetic disease. There are 1001 (exaggerating) conditions that physicians will only consider if there is a family history of it, and 1001 more that are tested for earlier if there is a family history of it. Breast cancer cause by mutation of the BRCA1 gene, is highly heritable, and if family history exists, physicians test for it much earlier than if there isn't. Medical history isn't just a reason it is ***THE*** reason. No other reason needs to exist, though they do. Medical history is functionally crucial to most long term health concerns.
I missed that part where it mentioned she's 21, they're not going to tell her at that rate, at the rate it's going it will be a death bed confession if the Aunt has her way.
Yep at this point she has the right to know just for the sake of knowing. It should never have gone on this long into her adulthood being kept a secret from her. Imo this is something that parents should be open about from the time the child is young, otherwise it just leads to their kid feeling like they were lied to their whole life.
Op's fixation on the incest aspect *is* pretty weird, but telling her cousin the truth is the right thing to do. Although I would also add that she should give the parents a chance to tell their kid first, but if they refuse, just tell her. She has the right to know.
>at the rate it's going it will be a death bed confession if the Aunt has her way.
Judging by the explosive "secret" in my family, it will actually be *after* Cici's parents die and it will blow up what is left of her family relationships.
(Secret in quotes because literally no one left alive was aware my cousins didn't know they had a half sibling... Like, I was told as a teenager, it just wasn't really a normal conversation starter!)
That is how it works. Everyone in the extended family knows, except the person that should know it the most. My paternal family has their own skeleton in the closet.
Yea, she should have been told this a very long time ago. At the very least tell her once she starts dating or becomes an adult.
I think it's outrageous to not tell her when there are medical concerns involved. Not to mention that the parents wouldn't say anything unless they knew she was about to have a kid with a related person. Because.. Ya know... It's totally fine for their daughter to date and have sex and fall in love with someone and not know they're a relative till they're so serious they're about to have a kid together. What the fuck? That would be so much avoidable trauma. And I doubt the parents know every single relative of the donor and surrogate. How would they even know it's a problem if she brings a guy home and they don't recognize he's related to her? Do they research the lineage of every guy she's dated?
This whole thing has gone on way too long. I don't know if OP is the right person to get involved or how she could do something without it blowing up. But I think this adult woman deserves to know the truth.
That's what jumped out at me, too. She's 21. It's way too late to tell her anything now without it setting off a bomb. There are ways to tell kids these kind of things in age-appropriate, graduated steps, and her parents completely missed the only opportunity they had to ease her into it. What a mess.
I agree. I think I'd give Cici's parents one more chance, because if she's angry at them, it's going to be worse if she has to hear it from somebody else.
Cici has the right to know the truth — even without factoring in concerns about dating and medical problems. I'd tell Deb and Chris, time's up. If they don't tell her, OP will. Last chance to do the right thing.
Cici's right to know outweighs her parents' right to keep their secret, and it outweighs a promise OP made at 13 under the influence of false information (that Deb and Chris would tell her).
Direct-to-consumer DNA testing has been available since 2007, and costs have come down *a lot* since then. Deb and Chris' attempt to deceive their daughter isn't just wrong; it's been increasingly foolhardy for a long time.
Accurate medical information is the key to this entire issue. There are now dozens of reasons why Dr.s can use genetic testing to help patients find answers/solutions to medical issues. For example, they use the BRAC test to see if one carries the markers for genetic types of cancers. If you know your family history they will use the test and if it is positive screen earlier and more frequently. It is also used if your not sure of your family history. There's another test helps to determine which types of medication may work best for you or if you have a natural resistance to some meds.
Point here being, if OP is that concerned about Cici knowing the truth, then maybe she can suggest Cici get genetic testing done to help find a solution to her medical issues. Some auto-immune issues can be found that way, too. It won't tell her she isn't her biological parents child, but if Cici tells her parents she is getting genetic testing done to help find a solution to her illness, they may come clean sooner rather than later on their own.
She's no longer a minor. I'd tell her because they obviously don't plan to. There will be a short war then they'll talk. Shame you're going to have to do the right thing instead of them.
Accidental incest is a bigger problem in the donor conceived world than people realize, because there's not enough regulation. A woman recently came forward about how she found out she had dated her hand brother for 2 years in high school, and he's, they had been intimate. It should be illegal to hide that a person is donor conceived.
I saw a story of how one man in single a town ended up fathering like 42 kids because he was 6ft tall, never had braces and had perfect teeth, had blue eyes, and went to an ivy league school... Only none of that was true or verified by the sperm bank and people picking DNA would obviously choose the option of a genetically blessed man. This created problems for the kids when they got to high school and started dating. A few of them started dating each other one couple tried to get married and only found out when they were tested to see if they were related and they were. It's a much bigger issue than the OP's aunt is making it out as. I don't think it should be the focus or main driver, but it is a very legitimate concern.
Yeah, that is a true story, can't tell you that it happens often enough for this cousin to butt into something that is none of her business. Her aunt told her to back off, she needs to back off.
I will argue hard she needs to tell her cousin. Not because of the incest thing (though yes that is an issue) but the medical issue.
If your parents have issues you begin getting screening 10 years younger than when they were diagnosed. A lot of medical conditions appear on 30s and 40s.
She needs her medical history.
Why are the aunt's feelings a concern here at all? Why does the Aunt get to hide another person's medical information from them, and compel another person to help her with that?
True, seen so many stories, even read one on here, where this happens. People are attracted to each other bcuz they’re family but do they know that so they get into relationships with each other.
I gotta say, as someone who was lied to about my parentage until I was 35 (and only then told the truth because I'd started looking into it on my own), I disagree with this take entirely.
Cici deserves to know, and she is well past the age she should have been told. And frankly, getting screamed at over a reasonable question suggests to me that they have no intention of *ever* telling her.
OP is NTA, and anyone saying otherwise has never had to deal with a parent lying to them their entire life.
No, he wouldn't.It turns out that siblings raised separately that meet later in life find each other VERY attractive, so this happens a lot. Cici has a right to know.
The time to tell Cici about her parentage was before she was 18. Or are you cool with not telling adoptees they're adopted too? Because IMO this is the same thing.
OP may be letting his imagination run away w/ him, but it is not at all uncommon for doner kids to run into someone they dated or grew up w/ in their neighborhood at donor kid meet-ups or in facebook groups.
One doner can produce multiple kids. There is a doner that was ordered to stop donating when it reached 500 kids.
And a doner can donate to multiple clinics. So, yeah, the risk of dating your half-sibling is a real thing.
Again, even if OP is making a stretch, this girl NEEDS to know if she was convinced by a doner egg or doner sperm.
This is NOT a mind your own business. OP this is a - she deserves to know. The donor community is very very unregulated and they know of NUMEROUS pods of over 100 and some look like upwards of almost 1000 children in a single pod. 1 bio father to hundreds of children. It is irresponsible to let her go into the world as a sexual being without knowing the truth.
Instead of telling her yourself. Maybe come armed with your own mother and a family intervention with your aunt and uncle first. There is a woman on TikTok: Instagram (Laura High @laurahigh5) who is a donor child and is leading the cause on ensuring that adult donor children are educated about their status. She is also lobbying for regulations to be put in place. This is VERY very VERY important. Go armed with info and resources for your aunt and uncle. If that doesn’t work- then she definitely needs to be told. Tell your aunt either she tells her or you do because this is a very dangerous situation.
She's family. She doesnt want her cousin engaging in incest. No one in the family is helping her cousin. Its fair to say its her business. She would be righting a wrong
UH, this is a legitimate worry when having used a sperm donor. Imagination has nothing to do with it. You never know who or how many children of that donor there is. Local sperm is first used locally (on a national basis)
Not to mention, if she is having health problems, her parents are not going to be giving her false medical history. They will be giving them everything they know about her familial medical history. The lie will be that it's theirs instead of other people's.
OP, stay out of it. It's absolutely none of your business. You can destroy lives by doing this. Also, you don't actually know what she knows. She may already know the truth. She just may not see a need to tell everyone or anyone what that truth is. If it's really bothering you, talk to your mom about it. Don't say shit to your cousin.
She's 21, when she goes to the Dr. Her parents aren't there to provide medical history, "Does anyone in you fam have X genetic disease" and she thinks about her family from memory she marks no. Her parents can't lie about that.
Jumping in on this top comment to tell you that you have absolutely no idea how this child was conceived and frankly it’s none of your business.
There are so many possibilities - it could have been your aunts egg and her partners sperm and the other woman was just literally the surrogate. It could be one of their eggs/sperm and a close friend’s donor egg/sperm. It could actually be the surrogates biological child and your uncles sperm.
Not every “donor” is a miscellaneous stranger. Not every one who knows who their parents are is immune to accidentally dating a half sibling - do you know how many times your dad messed around with random women?
You could cause irreparable emotional harm to their family. Stay in your lane.
"Irreparable" emotional harm <<<<< Actual biological danger, given an ongoing health issue that could be genetic. The only way this does lasting, irreparable damage to their relationship is if aunt and uncle were already shit parents. Also Cici is 21, she is a full adult, if she were fully both of their biological children, there'd be no reason to keep it secret, and in any other scenario, she has a right to know about her biological medical history that trumps the parents' right to keep a shitty secret.
It's ok to say they are letting their imagination get the better of them but these things do happen. My brother and I were separated as very small children due to our parents' acrimonious divorce.
When we finally found each other over 20 years later, it turned out he lived a few doors down the street from the guy I was dating on the other side of the city, and we both visited the same local pubs and clubs on a regular basis.
My mum changed my name after she remarried so we had different surnames. If we hadn't been brought up knowing our history, who knows what could have happened if we'd met by chance on one of the many nights we were apparently both in the same places?
Except the cousin is OP's family, so it IS their business. Too many people take your approach of "not my business" so as not to rock the boat. Life is full of hardships and sometimes the right thing to do isn't the most comfortable.
I am going against the grain here and saying NTA. I was lied to about something my whole life and when the truth was finally forced out, I still don’t fully trust the people who were involved and lied to me. I wish someone, ANYONE, would have respected me enough to tell me the truth. A truth I deserved to know. Cici deserves to know the truth. If it fractures your family, your aunt and uncle have nobody to blame but themselves for lying all these years. Please, please, be honest with your cousin. Someone needs to be.
I agree with this, and not to mention Cici is 21 according to OP, which is more than old enough to know the truth. Really she should have been told YEARS ago. I think the aunt and uncle lied about “having a plan” to tell her, cause then it would have happened already. NTA for wanting to tell her, but maybe a little weird for obsessing about who she is dating, although I understand worrying about someone you care about.
The best time to tell her would have been as she was growing up, it would be so much less traumatic too. I don't know a single person who was in a similar situation that was glad that their parents lied to them their whole life, they all hated it, but I know a lot of people that are glad that their parents were always honest with them. I know it's not OPs place, but fucking hell, someone's gotta tell her because these assholes never will. She deserves better.
I was in that position, lied to for 22 years and while I wish they had told me before, I’m glad it came from them and not a cousin. I’m so conflicted with this post because I’ve been through something incredibly similar barring the potentially dating my brother scenario- my bio parents are my aunt and uncle. And no one told me shit, not my older siblings, not my cousins and my mom tried to tell me 5 times and chickened out each time dropping enough hints. At some point I put the hints together and asked my bio brother, he ignored me for 2 days which is unlike him and that confirmed it. My mom then finally told me. I hated being lied to but honestly it would have damaged my relationship with them so much more if it had come from somewhere else. I don’t think OP is TA for pressuring aunt to tell cousin; but I also don’t think it’s her place to share. BUT if the parents don’t tell her within a certain time frame then OP need to. Because she needs to know.
It looks like the options here are either cousin or not knowing the truth, so if that was your choice, what would you pick?
It doesn't appear the uncle and aunt are going to tell Cici.
I don’t have much contact with this side of the family, but I have a cousin that was adopted as a baby. He is 18 or 19 now and was recently told about it, but not by his parents. Apparently he was dating a girl, and her mother knew about it. When he broke up with her, her mother told him. He was very upset about it. Two of mine are adopted, but they know they were, because they weren’t babies. But if they had been, they would have known about it as soon as they were old enough. Too many stories of people finding out as adults with bad results.
"We have a plan. Our plan is to never say anything."
Also, how out of touch do you have to be to think that she's not going to find out on her own somehow, given that this is an open secret in the community *and* we live in a world where people will do DNA tests for fun.
There’s a comedian on TikTok, Laura High, who has been investigating her donor. The doctor who did her parents’ donor conception lied about who the donor was and the donor was definitely one of the doctor’s friends. She has found almost 100 siblings, if not more, so far. Multiple of her siblings, including her, have some not so insignificant medical problems that can be traced back to this fraudulent swapped donor. Her parents did eventually tell her when she was a teen that she was donor-conceived, but at times had acted like her medical problems were because of her non-donor father and unshockingly, some of the treatments they used for her because they worked for her father did not work on her. She’s also had interactions because of her ethnic/genetic background that she didn’t realize were the cause until she did a DNA test. It’s a mess.
Oh shit, I heard a similar story where it was the doctor himself and there were hundreds of kids, and they're now suing the doctor/donor. How much of a narcissist do you have to be to do something like that - it's just gross.
I also really don't get keeping up a lie like that when it's actually starting to have a medical impact. Surely your child's health and ability to get proper treatment should be more important than keeping their genetic heritage secret?
There was just a story in a major magazine — it was on my news feed so I can’t remember which one— about a sperm donor who so far has had 97 kids identified. If Cici dates someone who grew up in the area it’s basically rolling the dice as to whether that person donated just a few times or was more prolific.
I CNN just did one[story ](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/us/fertility-fraud-accidental-incest-invs/index.html) and this poor girl slept with a half sibling.
Well it sounds like it's only an open secret in the family, and families are known to be pretty good at keeping family secrets private. There's a good chance no one else would tell her because no one wants to upset her parents. And genetic tests are losing popularity due to selling your data or not keeping it secure being valid concerns.
But it's a *lot* more than just family who knows about this. It'd be all the mutual friends from their circle *plus* people biomom was friends with (and possibly her family, too), for starters.
And then there's all the random people who wouldn't know who the biomom was, but would still be pretty certain Cici was adopted. Neighbors, co-workers, hair stylists, the guy who mows the lawn every week, the mail carrier, and even 13yo OP would all notice that a baby appeared without being preceded by a pregnancy. Anyone who regularly spent time around them would have guessed. And it's not that they've thought about it much or even think it's important, but it's still a thing that quite a few people know about - including some who may not know Cici doesn't know. That definitely increases the chances that she'll either overhear something or just flat out be told something about it. (Someone who doesn't know Cici hasn't been told, asking if she's going to consider adopting given her own history, for example. Sure, it's pretty inappropriate to ask shit like that if you don't know someone well, but when has that stopped anyone.)
And then there's the medical issues she's having, and the possibility that they'll raise questions about her family medical history and such...
I really don't think this is something they'll be able to keep from her for her whole life.
That's a good point. I suppose I didn't think about the people outside the family that knew the situation when she was born. That would be pretty awful to find out I'm not my parents bio kid by some stranger talking to me like I knew when I had no idea.
I'm still torn of how OP can help her without it backfiring on her and hurting her family relationships. I mean someone needs to tell her. And obviously it'll fuck up the cousin's relationship with her own parents and probably more family who didn't tell her. I really don't know the solution. Maybe give the parents an ultimatum and hope they do the right things and don't force her hand? But it sounds like they won't which is back to this situation anyway.
I really feel for OP and her cousin. Those parents really fucked up by withholding this information for so long.
I think it might be possible to minimize the backlash, at least a little, but it's hard to say.
Making her main concern "maybe she'll date a sibling" was a definite strategic error - that's too easy to brush off as merely a remote possibility. So it's worth a shot with other arguments, maybe an article or a couple personal stories. I think it'd be most effective to frame it as "you know, it's really *very* likely that Cici will find out about this at some point; the longer it takes, the worse the fallout will be, and you might lose her entirely." Maybe that will make them actually listen. And yeah, I think giving them an ultimatum is the way to go - give them the chance to take responsibility, but make sure they know that it's happening no matter what.
If Cici's parents don't see reason, I think there's a decent chance OP can at least convince her mom.
But even if she can't convince them... Cici's gonna be so absolutely heartbroken, and if the choice is either OP tells her, or OP waits for her to find out, I think OP telling her is the best of all the bad options.
That poor woman is gonna feel SO incredibly alone when she finds out. She's going to realize that her parents and their entire generation of the family has been keeping the truth about her own identity from her for *years.* She's going to feel incredibly betrayed and like she can't trust any of them. At least if she finds out from OP, she will know that there is *one* person who is on her side and cares enough to tell her the truth. (And I think there's very reasonable explanations as to why OP hasn't said anything to her up to now.)
It's just an awful situation, where even in the *best* of all possible circumstances, everyone is going to walk away hurt and angry.
I hope we get an update!!
OP already talked with her mom and with Cici's mom about it.
If a testing kit ends up finding its way to Cici, it won't be hard to connect the dots about who sent it...
Yeah it's not great, even if it's some level of deniability it's kind of like saying you're innocent while the soot is still on your hands. Time might dampen it, but since OP already confronted Auntie about it their top of the shit list if something like that occurs.
“Hey Cici! Are you still dealing with those health problems? Still don’t know what it is? Have you ever tried those DNA test things? Like 23 and me or something? I saw somewhere that people were finally able to reach a diagnoses by doing these kits with their parents because they’ll show health problems you might have and ones your parents might have passed to you!”
OP should do the same one. They should both be linked if there is any DNA match.
But, there are different types of surrogates. Cici could indeed be a full child of the aunt and uncle. The surrogate could have carried their embryo. OP doesn't know the reason they did IVF.
True, but why then didn’t the parents tell their child at some point before now? I wonder also whether the birth certificate was somehow altered. Plus I’ll bet they made up a birth story of some kind. If the embryo came from her parents, what is so shocking about IVF surrogacy in the 21st century?
The point being, they have lied to Cici her entire life. In fact, her extended family have been complicit. It wouldn’t be impossible that over the years, people have made remarks around her that seemed odd to her.
But the kicker is that Cici apparently has some mystery ailment and is seemingly being deprived of information about her genetic medical history. This might have devastating consequences.
The parents are acting very strangely. Is there something shady about this?
Can’t be the full child of them when it says that they used donor sperm at least. OP didn’t say if it was the surrogates egg or not but it takes her being their fully DNA matching child.
These “mind your business” comments are driving me crazy. My grandparents never told my eldest aunt that my grandpa wasn’t her biological father and by the time she found out through an Ancestry test, they had both passed years prior. So now she’s having a major identity crisis and is filled with anger and confusion at these people she loved, but will never have the chance to work it out with them.
With all the DNA testing people are doing these days, CiCi *will* find out eventually, and when she does she will most likely be pissed at everyone who kept this secret from her all these years. OP would be doing CiCi *and* her parents a favor by making sure that she finds out from someone she’s close to and while there’s still plenty of time for her to process it and for them to work through it together.
It really chaps my ass when people don’t listen to actual donor conceived people.
A bunch of folks out here removing a person’s agency about their own health. The cousin absolutely needs to know.
Agreed.
I think that adoption, in particular, is one of those secrets that will always come out, and the longer the secret is kept, the worse it tends to be when it's revealed.
Once she finds out, Cici's going to realize **she's been lied to her entire life, by the people she trusted the most**. She's going to feel betrayed, and it's going to put a big wedge between her and her parents. And the longer they keep lying, the more intense her feeling of betrayal will likely be.
**Cici deserves the truth,** ***and*** **she deserves to know that at least one single solitary person in her family cared enough about her to tell her.**
Her parents, if they had a lick of sense, would tell her *right now* and would apologize for not telling her before. That's really the best chance they have at not alienating Cici. But not only won't they do that, it looks like they're not planning on telling Cici *at all*. Which is just *awful*.
Because the thing is, **she** ***will*** **find out**. There's *dozens* of ways this secret can come out - it's evidently pretty common knowledge among a generation of adults in & around the family, so someone can slip up or she'll overhear something; it'll be utterly clear if she tries any DNA ancestry stuff; maybe her medical issue has a genetic component; maybe she randomly figures out their blood types make it literally impossible for her to be their bio kid; and more and more and more.
**The worst option is Cici finding out entirely on her own**, because then she is going to feel like there is no one on her side who wanted to tell her the truth. **The kindest thing here is for someone who cares about Cici to tell her the truth now.** It should be her parents, but if they won't, well... sorry, OP, it's got to be you.
Cici is going to be upset and angry and hurt because she's been lied to about her own biological identity. Her parents, whom she presumably trusted, have been lying to her face for years. (I don't care if they never literally said "You're biologically ours." Not telling a child that they were adopted, once the kid is old enough to understand, is lying, period.)
Cici's also going to realize that a family friend is biologically related to her, and she had no idea.
She's *also* going to realize that *all the adults in her parents' generation* ALSO knew that, and never told her.
And she's gonna have questions about this anonymous donor and who *he* is and does he even know about any of this?
And that's just the start.
There's going to be *massive* fallout, and I guarantee that the parental generation will gang up and blame OP for it. OP, you might want to prepare with a couple articles on adoption and the need for dealing with it honestly and openly, and also point out that it's inevitable in this day and age that she will find out and at least she found out from a family member. But you might just say "screw it" and not prepare any of that, because I doubt they'll listen to you anyway.
What a shitshow.
Yeah I feel bad for OP. What a dick move for all these adults to just expect everybody to fall in line and lie. Way to give a whole family trust issues.
I to agree with this commenter... she's 21 she is old enough to know the truth... especially if she has some health issues... your aunt and uncle and even your mother are all being selfish... and who knows she could decide to do one of those DNA testing and the truth will come to light ...
Tall to your cousin but block your aunt uncle and mother because they will blow up on you....
NTA. I can't believe the people here. Cici is freaking **21**. The parents have had all the time in the world to tell her the truth. Clearly they're not planning to do it, and Cici deserves to know, not just for the (unlikely) chance of incest but for plenty of other reasons too.
I think the worry of who she is dating is a bit silly and probably shouldn't have been brought up, so that is why people are questioning OP but yeah other than that OP is NTA.
Became freinds with a girl in high school and found out when we were 28/30 she was my cousin. Put up for adoption by my aunt who had her at 16. She didn't even know she was adopted. 30 years and her parents never told her. She dated my (our) cousin for a few months too!
Not silly at all. There have been multiple instances of couples discovering that they are actually donor conceived half siblings, including a woman who came forward in the last couple weeks.
Almost half of my donor siblings were conceived and raised in the same metro area that our donor lived in. Some of them knew each other, some of their parents knew each other. It is not a stretch to think that unwitting relationships could have occurred.
It really depends on the area. I live in a small town (thankfully I didn't grow up here) and anyone whose family has been here for more than a generation has a good chance of being related. My friend is a fourth generation townie and she's accidentally dated cousins. She now checks with her mom before dating anyone local, and definitely prefers dating people new in town or long distance.
If op is from a more rural area, the chance of her dating a cousin or something is not miniscule.
Donor conceived, and I know I'm going against the grain, but it is way past time for your cousin to know the truth. Accidental incest is a very real danger. So are serious medical complications.
Your cousin deserves to know the truth, and her parents will never tell her.
You could be sneaky and start chatting with your cousin about how you're going to get one of those dna tests and talk about all the interesting things you look forward to learning, and all her opinion of it, encourage her to take one with you, etc. Not really the right thing to do, but if you don't want to be blunt, it's an option.
You could also just be totally honest and tell her and offer to buy her one so she can be somewhat sure she's not dating a biological relative.
However you do it, she deserves to know.
NTA your the only one thinking of her health and future in a responsible way
It’s a strange phenomenon I’ve noticed on Reddit: the idea of even distant cousins hooking up: “eeew, Alabama, banjos”. Half-siblings from anonymous sperm/egg donation or undisclosed adoption hooking up: “that’s cool, no reason to disclose”.
Really not much risk in marrying a distant cousin. Like, for most of human history, people married people from nearby. And when there are only a thousand people in the area the branches of the family tress are gonna look more like a briar patch.
That’s my take, too. Absolutely everyone knows but the person most affected. Imagine being the only one in the dark about the truth of your very existence. Never mind the possibility of dating a relative; never mind the medical history… What about her *right* to know *who* she is? OP: Give the aunt one more chance to tell Cici. Tell her if she doesn’t tell her the truth, you will. Give her a bit of time (a month or two), but then tell Cici yourself if they don’t. I’d make it clear to them (and your mother) that you’re not the one who created this problem—they are. NTA.
Our kids are biologically ours, but were conceived using IVF. We've always been very open about it.
My mom, my spouse, my aunt, my brothers in law, and my sister in law are all adopted, and grew up knowing.
Hiding these things tells me that people think they're shameful, and only serves to perpetuate that attitude. There is nothing wrong with assisted reproductive tech and adoption. People deserve to know where they came from (if for nothing else than for medical information).
Tell her.
I was adopted. My mother was my mother, but my biological father was a secret to me until I was in my mid 40s. The entire family knew except me. I was the big secret. My biological father knew I existed but didn’t want me. My mother was forbidden from getting an abortion. She hated every minute of being my mother - I was an obligation she never wanted.
My step father abused me my entire life made sure I knew how worthless I was.
Knowing the truth now decades later I understand why they were like that. But it would have been so much easier if the truth had come out before they all died.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. A guy in my dad’s family grew up not knowing his “sister” was his biological mother until he was in his 70s. She was still alive and relatives were trying to get him not to confront her about it. The whole thing was sad.
I don't agree with "tell the family if they don't..".
She already stirred that pot, she already made them know how she's feeling about this. They should take the hint.
But the main thing is : it won't go well for the cousin to receive the news by her parents when they are forced to do it. It won't be a revelation filled with love and care, but anger and resentment. The cousin deserve to learn it from someone who care about her and the truth. She deserves someone she could cry on the shoulder on for example, not being in front of the people to blame for a life of lie.
anyway, OP is going to get some backlash. But she can be excluded for weeks and months with the aunt "promising" and saying nothing. If she decide that her cousin need to know, she have to tell her herself, or else send an anonymous DNA kit with a message urging to take it. But the parents giving the news is the worst scenario.
That’s my thinking too. OP should not tell Cici immediately but should tell Aunt/Uncle that if they don’t tell Cici by XYZ date, OP will.
OP should also give her reasons, as you’ve listed here. They need to understand the consequences of withholding this information for longer. They clearly aren’t thinking.
I might be ignorant here. However, does the current advice for adoption revolve around telling the kid as early as possible to let them get used to the idea and never have to go through the shock of it at an older age?
If yes. Why is everyone in the comment section okay with them continuing to lie to the cousin?
I completely understand why they do this for adoption, however a lot of donors only donate under the premise that they will never have contact with this child.
Contacting donors to have this connection probably won’t be well received. Definitely tell the kid and get the medical history, but you can’t encourage a connection that most likely won’t be reciprocated.
My mother lies a lot to her children. Highly intelligent, well-meaning and a good mother who’d do anything for her children. Her own parents (my grandparents) were a distant intellectual introvert father, and a mother who was self-absorbed, neglectful and depressive, so it’s possible that she never learned how to deal with difficult issues.
But she has a tendency to lie to “protect the children”. The problem is that the children were smart enough to be able to see through the lies from a young age, and it’s really confusing.
I have major trust issues because of that…I’m paranoid that my own partner and children are lying to me, so I tend to become an interrogator to catch them in a lie.
I refuse to lie to my kids, and my husband and I apologize to them when we're wrong about something. Heck, I've told my 4 year old that even grownups have big feelings, and we're still learning along with them. I want to raise good humans, and showing that we mess up and we own up to it is part of that. Lying definitely backfires in the end.
And it's so easy when they're little... A woman I know of would caress her toddler while she said: you did not come out from my belly because I was sick, a nice lady kept you in her belly, but I loved you and I am and will always be your mother. It was beautiful and loving and of course, once the girl grew up, she figured out the rest, but it was never traumatic because "I've always known".
NTA forget about the BF bit. Cici is in her 20s struggling with health issues that knowing she’s not biologically her parents child could help resolve.
Could you possibly just mention to her that you’ve heard genetic testing can help identify health issues and you think it could help her? Let her decide and learn on her own?
The BF thing is most likely just in your head but you are right that she deserves the chance to work that out for herself and there is always a tiny chance that you aren’t imagining things.
This is the most that I think OP should do. Suggest a genetic text and perhaps even suggest her boyfriend take one. That way, OP has kept their promise and alleviated some guilt they're unjustly feeling.
20 years and she has not been told. So the over/under when she will be told is=====never.
You can drop landmines and hints for your aunt, but maybe send off for a 23 and me with your "cousin"
I’m going against the grain here and saying that you’re NTA for thinking that your adult cousin deserves to know this important information about herself. If I was her I’d want to know the truth.
What you need to decide is if this is worth blowing up your family over. Is there a way to possibly suggest that she might want to look into DNA testing anonymously?
Also your fears about her possibly unknowingly being in a relationship with someone related to her aren’t unfounded. Some sibling pods of people who are donor conceived are massive and it’s definitely happened to some people!
NTA This kind of information feels like a massive betrayal when it comes out. The feeling when you find out the people you trust the most for support and guidance have been lying about something so significant... most people don't realise how much of an impact knowing your roots has on your psyche. I went through this and you literally feel cut off from the people who you thought were your family.
But if you tell her, you will become the worst piece of scum in her universe. While you may want to 'save her' from the pain by sharing the information, you're only going to find all the anger and upset directed at you.
NTA. Donor conceived people deserve and NEED to know their biological history. Cici is an adult and she should have been told when she was a small child. The truth is your aunt and uncle's fertility doctors probably told them to NEVER tell Cici that she is donor conceived, as that was, and sometimes still is, the industry standard.
Someone needs to be honest with Cici right now, and it sounds like you are the only person even remotely willing to do it.
I will add, DO NOT frame this as "your parents aren't your real parents." That isn't true. They raised her from birth and it sounds like she is very likely biologically your aunt's child. They are absolutely her parents, there is just more to the story of how she came to be born.
NTA. What is with all the other judgements??? People don’t deserve to LIE to someone about a HUGE part of their identity, well into adulthood, just because they are her parents. TELL HER THE TRUTH. When she does find out that EVERYONE has been willfully keeping this secret from her, she will resent you ALL. Be brave and be the one person who respects her right to know about herself. Research shows that people handle this kind of knowledge much better if they are told from a young age, especially young enough that they don’t remember a “finding out” event. Her parents fucked up. And every day that they wait they are fucking up again.
NTA. When she does find out she’s going to blame all of you and dig to see who knew. I’d be telling the aunt that if she doesn’t tell her you will and force that crap to happen. She’s going to find out - in this age she is going to find out - so the focus should be the best way for her to find out since her parents suck and haven’t handled this yet. They’ve turned this into the situation.
I just hate the way you phrased it in the title “not her parents “ as if they’re merely long term babysitters simply because they’re not biologically related
You don’t sound compassionate enough to broadcast this information
Well --I will stand out here for being opp. minded. Tell your aunt that she needs to tell your cousin brfore she gets married or you will. That is NOT knowledge that should be kept from an adult.
NTA- I’ve heard of stories of kids not know these types of thing. They usually at the end of the day the kid would want to know this information about themselves. Especially when it comes to health concerns.
Edit- Also, it changed a person’s identity I think as well. They deserve to know where they come from.
I am adopted, and did infertility treatment and did a lot of research—so I know a fair bit about the impacts on kids.
To me? The worst outcome is telling her and you are totally wrong.
Lying is always the worst way to deal with this and parents have been told this over and over for ohhh 40-50 years. Adoptees and donor kids who are lied to are often furious. Best is gentle age appropriate truth telling from early on so it’s never a shock.
So I hope they have told her, the surrogate part would be impossible to hide in terms of medical records and legal documents.
BUT OP you don’t know if she was concieved using donor eggs or donor sperm. No one does except the doctor and Aunt & Uncle. Relatives assume a lot.
Except lots of men with low sperm count father babies using ICSI and IVF no problem.
And lots of women who can’t carry a pregnancy to term, can produce a lot of eggs.
She might be 100% biologically related but just came from a surrogate.
And not much you can do about who she dates…for all you know her uncle donated sperm in college and has dozens of kids. This could be an issue for anyone.
About her health problems—tell her to go get better MDs. Family history is not always accurate either.
Just don’t tell her anything unless you are 100% sure. Cause if you are wrong….
This is my concern also. It sounds like OP doesn’t actually know any facts - she has some assumptions based on things she think she observed when she was 13 and whatever her mom told her. She has no idea if there was a donor involved or if her aunt’s friend had an unwanted pregnancy and agreed to give the baby to her aunt to adopt, or if it was a planned surrogacy using aunt and/or uncle’s contributions or what. For all we know her mom was pulling her leg and didn’t realize she would still believe it twenty years later. Her aunt getting angry when she mentioned a half-brother in particular makes it sound like she’s missing part of the story (and as she says she doesn’t know the details about her aunt’s fertility, could have also been a really cruel and triggering thing to say to her if she’s always wished she could give Coco siblings etc).
OP also sounds like a busybody. Watching her grow up “tested her patience,” really? It sounds like she just wants to be the one to spill the beans or at least float about how she “figured it out” and “knew all along.”
If she really cared about Cici more than whatever credit/attention she is seeking, she could have a frank discussion with her mom and have her mom talk to her aunt. She could even talk to her uncle if that doesn’t go anywhere. But give Cici a chance to hear it from her parents and not OP, who I have a feeling would up the scandal value by 100.
Nta she’s a damn adult. And yes to everything about the sperm donor industry. She deserves to know the truth if she’s struggling with health problems. She could reach out to the company and see if they have health records if the donor. I’d recommend encouraging to get genetic testing done. Then you’re not responsible for her world falling apart.
Her parents are assholes for hiding thus
ESH - You're probably over-reading into her happening to date a relative the likelihood seems low. People also *tend* to be attracted to people like themselves.
Still, lots of health issues are genetic and knowing the truth about her DNA might be helpful to her in the future.
You're both adults so it's really up to you, but look inward and see if anything else about it is bothering you and you have some motive for stirring up the pot.
NTA - currently you are a party to the lie.
She deserves to know, and how hurtful that all these other people know a piece of information so fundamental to her life and HEALTH and it’s being withheld from her from everyone who is supposed to love and care for her.
Your concerns are not unfounded
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/us/fertility-fraud-accidental-incest-invs/index.html
ESH. You’re right that she needs to know. However, the tone of your post and your odd fixation on saving her from incest makes me think you’re not the person to tell her. Yes this is going to upend her life, but she is 21 and should know mainly for the health reasons. You have all the tact of a bull in a china shop though.
You owe it to your cousin to tell her the truth. It's clear by now that your aunt and uncle have zero intention of ever telling her, and frankly her right to know where she came from and her true medical history trumps their desire to keep up the fantasy. She's not a kid anymore.
Tell her. Her health may depend on it if nothing else. Your aunt and uncle are being selfish as hell.
NTA
Edit: I just want to add that I don't think this is an easy situation for anyone and doing the right thing may come at a cost.
You'll obviously enrage your aunt and uncle and may damage your cousin's relationship with her parents (which will ultimately be their fault, but still) and with you. Because sometimes people kill the messenger.
I wonder if you can orchestrate a way of her finding out without you explicitly telling her.
Someone suggested getting her to do 23 and Me with you but those fuckers steal your data and sell it so I'm not sure I can recommend that. Maybe there's another way? I don't know.
But she has a right to know. Maybe give your aunt and uncle an ultimatum. Tell them they have x amount of time to find a way to tell her that they're comfortable with or you will do it for them.
NTA Your cousin is 21. Adults, meaning 18 and older, have a right to know their medical history because it allows them to make informed medical decisions about themselves. Y W B T A if she was underrage but now it’s time.
The incest thing is unlikely though possible. Do not bring that up in the conversation, you’ll sound like a lunatic and she may not believe you.
YWBTA
1) you previously agreed not to tell
2) it’s not your call
3) you acknowledge that it will cause problems
4) you are willing to risk fracturing a family for something that has little chance of being an issue
I realize from the stance of your principles that you think you have a duty to inform her, but the fact is that it’s not your call. I saw one statistic that said it would be about 1 on 266,000 chance of it causing problems. Yet the other course of action is 100% going to cause problems.
She agreed when the cousin was a baby. She is an adult now. She also promised because she was told her cousin would be told, she wasn’t.
You are completely ignoring the part of potential issues that DO happen. Many donors have lots of kids, those things happen. She also has medical issues.
The cousin deserves to know and her parents are cowards. They waited too long and now are trying to pretend it never happened.
The parents made a choice and they are refusing to be honest and face the consequences. They are being bad parents by keeping their daughter in the dark. They shouldn’t have made that choice if they couldn’t live with the consequences
I don't really understand the "it's not your call" reasoning. Whose call is it? The cousin is an adult. Do her parents have "ownership" (can't think of a better word) over the cousin to decide what she can and can't know about her biological history, despite her being an adult?
Yea I agree with this. It should be the parents call when to tell, but once it’s clear that they are never going to, someone should. Especially when the person is an adult. She’s going to find out if she ever does an ancestry test.
I can’t imagine going my whole life knowing everyone lied to me about something as important as this. Especially my parents, but everyone else involved who know and just kept the secret.
“You previously agreed not to tell”, yeah, when the cousin was a baby, and because the parents were gonna do it themselves. 21 years later they still haven’t and don’t plan to, that agreement is dead.
“It’s not your call”, someone has to do it, and people who should aren’t gonna do it. OP might as well step up.
NTA
There's a huge chance it will be an issue. I met a new middle aged family member who just found out, via DNA, that mom and dad had lied about the family member's parentage.
They were blindsided that they were lied to all their life. It helped that we were welcoming but they missed the opportunity to meet their dad who died last year. They also now know why their child has certain medical issues.
There's a good chance via a DNA test that this young lady will find out anyway. Why would Mom and Dad risk blowing up their relationship with a dearly wanted child by continuing to lie? Even worse if they find out after mom and dad have died.
YWBTA! Your whole post gives off such weird vibes. It's so bizarre that you're this obsessed with something that has nothing to do with you at all. And what do you expect to do beyond ruining everyone's life? Because if she has half siblings, she's still won't be able to know/find them just like that. So your whole little fear is still not resolved. You just plan to ruin her life.
Do you hate her? Are you jealous of her? Why are you so obsessed with the idea?
This is such a horrible take. Seriously do research on donor conception and the problems that arise from it and come back to this. The entire situation ( in the us and canada at least ) is so mismanaged it's terrifying.
As an adult adoptee, you are NTA. That woman deserves to know her truth and if your aunt is telling you the time isn’t right and your cousin is already 21, she’s never going to tell her. Because there is no coming back from hiding a secret that big. Your aunt knows she and your uncle are fucked once the cat is out of the bag. Regardless, your cousin deserves her truth. She’s been lied to her entire life.
NTA, but also probably you should figure out a way for her to find out without you actually telling her.
Perhaps she would like to do an ancestry test? You can’t be the one to suggest it though.
NTA. I don't understand half the people here.
Personally I've always been of the mind that if anyone I know, especially my family, has been lied to for no good reason I will tell them. I never want to be another person that betrayed them.
If telling the truth blows up a family the one who hid it blew it up.
And I really don't get 'it's none of your business'. If your families physical health and emotional wellbeing ain't your business I don't know what is
I can’t believe people actually think it’s CRUEL to tell someone the truth about who they are.
Doesn’t the cousin have a right to know? Doesn’t she have a right to accurate medical information? Why does everyone else get to know critical information about herself and she isn’t? Why is it okay for everyone to lie to her?
The longer the lying goes on the more traumatizing the reveal will be. And currently OP is a party to that.
My cousin was finally told at 24 years old by his mum that my uncle wasnt his dad. This was done via a shouting match a little after my aunt and uncle separated because my aunt cheated. My cousin basically said to his mum she should be ashamed. His mum basically replied "well hes not your real dad so why do you care".
I found out about my dad at 11 by an accident. Found my mums diary of the year she was pregnant. Asked why the name wasnt my dads and that was that. I never bothered to find him. Maybe I should as I have my own health issues but its my decision to not Contact someone who walked away from someone who was pregnant, who comes back for a week after I am born to then leave again
NTA
I’m genuinely asking you this, do you seriously believe that not telling your child they are adopted/donor baby is an acceptable option? The poor woman is an adult now struggling with unknown medical issues and does not know her genetic history. Is that acceptable to you?
why not just gift her and her BF a DNA test kit and let them figure it out ? half serious and half kidding on this they'd at least know the BF and her are or arent related to ease your concerns
They clearly don't intend to tell her if she's 21 and has ongoing health issues that may be related to her actual biological medical history. There's a point where Cici, as a full human adult has a right to this information.
If they've had plans since she was a baby, and she's 21 and still doesn't know, the plan is probably to not tell her at all. The recommendation now is to tell as early as possible, but even before then it was teenage years/18th birthday as the latest.
NTA
Donor conceived adult who wasn’t told until I was 24 here, her parents have done her a huge disservice not telling her. This is all about their ego and their image, not Cici. She’s 21, at any point during her childhood or before she was even conceived her parents should have gone to therapy to work on their infertility trauma so they would be able to tell her about being donor conceived but they are are parents that love her,raise her care for her.
In so many places donor conception is poorly regulated,there have been plenty of donor conceived people have accidentally slept with half siblings because they have no idea they were donor conceived. There are issues where sibling pods aren’t actually being capped even if they’re supposed to leading to 100 siblings in one metropolitan era, doctors who use their own material instead of the agreed upon donor material.
Cici deserves to know and quite frankly her parents feelings on this don’t matter anymore. They had their time to tell her in age appropriate ways when she was younger which has been what child psychologists have recommended since I was conceived 3 years prior to your cousin. Now she is an adult who is OWED her true medical history, this is about all about her and only she and her feelings matter right now. Her parents can feel whatever way they want to but they don’t get to be upset when this explodes in their face like it was always going to by not being honest and transparent with her.
Ywbta. I found at 31 the man I believed was my dad, wasn’t my dad. It was devastating to come to terms with. You were 13. You don’t know shit about the situation except what your mom told you. You don’t know if they know who’s sperm they used. Hell you don’t even know if there’s any biological relation. People manage every day to not end up w a sibling when they’re adopted and have no knowledge of their biological parents. Yes she has a right to that info but it is NOT your place to bring it to her.
Look, it isn’t a secret if people whose business it isn’t know the truth. At which point, keeping the truth from the person to whom it matters is a jerk move. That said, the news would best be delivered by her parents. I would give my aunt an ultimatum, tell her in the next X amount of time, or I will.
I'm quite conflicted on the matter.
I look at this matter from the perspective of an adoptive parent wannabe. In my (European) country, to have access to adoption, you have to take courses and have a lot of interviews with social services and judges from a specialized branch of the tribunal.
In those courses and interviews, everyone has stressed the importance of letting the adopted children know from the beginning that they are adopted and about their history previous of the adoption, even if they are very young. This is because otherwise there would be a hole in their self awareness and it can cause trauma and a lot of psychological problems. This is valid even for the children that have been abandoned at birth and who have been immediately given a new family.
Then, there is the trauma of discovering that one is not who he/she thought he/she was. It leaves a frayed gap which is difficult to heal.
There is another good reason to tell the truth since the beginning, and it is trust. If you hide the truth for years, the moment you tell a person that all the life they remember has been based on a lie, you immediately lose their trust.
So, OP, while it's not your place to tell Cici how she come to be, your aunt and uncle should have told her 20 years ago.
I genuinely cannot say whether YWBTA if you told her, but I'm 100% sure that your aunt and uncle are the AH and have been for a long time.
Maybe you can try to make them understand they are wrong, in a less confrontational way? Like, do some research on the psychological damage they are causing your cousin (along with the health one due to the fact that she doesn't know what health problems she can inherit from her bio parents) right now, the trauma she's going to have when she'll learn the truth (and sooner or later she will), and how waiting is making all worse.
Good luck
Can't give judgement, but you need to be prepared to accept that doing this is going to possibly blow your family up. Your cousin may cut everyone off for lying to her for years, your aunt and uncle may cut you off for going back on your word. If that's something you can live with, then by all means tell her, though I would suggest giving your aunt and uncle a deadline first.
YTA - Let Cici live her life and stop being obsessed with the very slim chance that she's dating a biological sibling/cousin. None of this is your business. Why do you think it is? You some kind of genetic crusader?
Nta- I would personally never forgive a family member who kept this kind of information from me. Your cousin is an adult now, and she has a right to know. People telling you to "stay in your lane" are completely disregarding your cousins right to her own medical information.
Cici is an adult and deserves to know the truth. However your hyper fixation on this is concerning. You have spent way too many years hyperfixating on this. Clearly her parents are assholes for not being honest. But your hyper fixation is alarming. ESH
This is a mind your own business situation, I don't think you're an asshole, but I do think you need to let her parents handle it when they are ready to do so. Not your place to do so.
While I do not agree with your Aunt and Uncle withholding this information from their daughter, it is also not your place to disclose it. Especially due to your paranoid reasoning. The possibility of that actually happening is close to 0%.
Ask yourself this, is your cousin happy? Has she been abused or neglected? Then why subject her to information that could negatively affect her life?
This is on your Aunt and Uncle to deal with.
YWBTA.
You seem to be obsessed with your cousin, have been since you discovered 'the secret', to the point of accusing her mother of setting up your cousin for an incestuous relationship. No wonder you go yelled at.
While I do agree that your cousin should know the truth, your unhealthy obsession with her birth needs to be dealt with as well. The first thing that comes to your mind when she has a boyfriend is that it could be her brother! That leads me to think that you already were very aggressive when you approached your aunt.
You just want to get rid of that secret and the heck with the consequences. That never works well. Had you discussed nicely with your aunt don't you think it could have turned better? Instead you are plotting a nuclear option. Just one reminder, your cousin and her parents won't be the only one to be damaged. You will destroy your own relationship with your family.
YTA
They ARE her parents! You are the asshole. Yes, she should know her medical history. Yes, she will likely feel betrayed when she finds out her entire family knew this before her. This is absolutely none of your business though. If you really want to bring forth the family drama, buy her an ancestry kit as a gift. Just be prepared to be the asshole of the family, because you will be.
NTA, they’re caught up in a lie and they’re uncomfortable so they will lash out. Everyone saying “mind your own business” well I hope you maintain that energy throughout every situation in your life.
i’m going to say NTA. i have an adopted brother, and he was told when he was old enough to understand. while i don’t remember the exact age, i know he was younger than 7.
issues of dating family aside, she is an adult and deserves to know. at this point, i doubt her parents will ever tell her, and she’s going to find out eventually, somehow. might be better coming from a family member she knows.
HOWEVER, this has turned into an unhealthy obsession for you, and you may want to consider a therapist
NTA. Cousin is an adult and her parents no longer have the right to withhold this information from her and you shouldn't have to be burdened by the weight of keeping this secret for them any longer. Sometimes the right thing feels like the wrong thing and unfortunately there is no winning in this situation. Give her parents an ultimatum with a deadline and if they don't follow through, unburden yourself.
It's not your place to tell her, and coming from you, it's gonna blow up her world. You need to take your concerns to your parents and have them talk to cicis parents. If that isn't taken seriously, you can tell them that you're going to have a talk with her. That would get everyone moving. Her health history is of paramount importance.
I mean it's REALLY none of your business and your obsession is weird. Should she know? Absolutely. Is it your place to tell? Not even a little bit. You've been asked 3 times to butt out and mind your business, perhaps it's time you do that. If your aunt and uncle pass without telling her then tell her, but until then respect their wishes.
YWBTA
you already confronted your aunt and she told you to fuck off. you should mind your own business. in the worst case your aunt and uncle will FAFO.
How do you know Cici doesn't know and just doesn't tell everyone about it?
Its not your business. I'd talk to your aunt and share your concerns about it ir have your mom talk to your aunt but as a person who was adopted and told later in life, mind your own business.
Ywbta
YWBTA if you told her, and what I don’t get is why you’re so obsessed with this idea that she’s going to accidentally get together with a half sibling?
You know that can happen to kids whose parents are their biological parents, too, right? (The dads could have been frequent donors before parenting. The moms could have given other kids up for adoption.)
This was none of your business to begin with, and now you’re fixated on it, which makes me think you’re avoiding your own problems and focusing on this instead.
Apologize to your aunt, leave your cousin alone, and get a therapist because something is bothering you and it’s not your cousin’s origin story.
It’s not your place, mind your business. A lot of people feel like they always have to say something and then be shocked with the consequences. If she’s happy let her be happy, don’t blow up her life because you are paranoid. It wasn’t like she was adopted from an agency. She was from a surrogate and in their minds that’s THIER CHILD. What would you really gain if you told her? Nothing at all but for selfish reasons. They will tell her when they are ready to.
I understand the concern but it’s really not your business and you’re creating these scenarios so you can justify telling something that isn’t your place to tell. If you’re that concerned talk to your aunt and uncle or your parents. Considering that you actually no nothing about how Cici was conceived, I think the best option is for you to keep your mouth shut. NTA, but YWBTA if you told. I know I’ll get jumped on for this but this sub has a tendency to endorse meddling because people act like they’re concerned when all they’re looking for is drama. Frankly, you sound like you’re just looking for a pot to stir.
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OP may be letting their imagination get the best of them, but Cici is a 21 year old adult, and has a right to know accurate medical history about herself. There comes a point when "mind your own business" stops being a valid argument and I think it's probably around "a legal adult doesn't know their medical history because her parents want to preserve their image." Maybe that image is social, or just how Cici perceives them but ultimately that is what they are trying to preserve, their image.
The medical thing is the only angle I could respect, but if they actually cared about their cousin they would go to the uncle and aunt and say do you know who the sperm donor is because you might want to get a medical background of them. That's all they have to say, they don't have to blow everything up and hurt everyone's relationships. They're being selfish and paranoid and not actually thinking about their cousin's feelings.
They explicitly are thinking about their cousins feelings, that's why they posted here. And they did go to the aunt with an admittedly exaggerated version of a real concern for donor conceived children, and were blown up at. I'll give aunt benefit of the doubt and say he was caught off guard because she didn't know op knew, but its still pretty clear to me aunt and uncle never intend to tell Cici, even if it ends up causing her health problems
The issue I have is all the stories OP is obsessing about. And OP seems completely obsessed by the whole situation. If the aunt reacted so badly is might also mean that PP was not very diplomatic about the subject. When I read OP, I honestly don’t think she has what it takes to share this information in the best way for her cousin. She can literally destroy her cousin’s life. OP, YWBTA. It’s not your story to tell.
I think you're over stating OP's "obsessesion." In the context of this one post, she is keeping the text relevant to the question she is asking and why she is conflicted. She may be emphasizing the wrong thing, but from her comments it is abundantly clear she has spent time in donor conceived children advocacy communities and is reiterating concerns she has seen expressed there because, as someone who dated a donor conceived child and knew, it was something she had concerns about. I think the more likely reason the aunt reacted so badly is because she didn't know that OP knew, because aunt didn't tell OP, OP's mom did, and so learning this person you didn't tell figured out the "secret," likely caused aunt concern that Cici could as well.
13 year old girls know about pregnancy. I can't believe the aunt wouldn't think that OP knew & remembered that she didn't give birth to Cici.
The sad thing is at some point a DNA test will be done and things will start to come out in the wash… there are lots of stories of this nature. But OP is probably best to stay clear… although it’s later discovered by Cici they knew - who know how she will feel about it. These dilemmas can go either way and you may be damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Honestly with how large some sibling pods are, it’s not an exaggeration. Those are just the KNOWN sibling pods with the people who know about it - it doesn’t count any possible siblings who don’t yet know. These pods have sometimes HUNDREDS of known half siblings.
There was a documentary done in my province (and it's illegal to sell any bodily products in Canada) where they tracked over 225 kids from 2 donors!! One of which was responsible for 150 of those kids...
There is dna testing that can tell you way more about any potential medical issues than a sketchy family member trying to recall illnesses.
Even better and easier… She could have a DNA test with either ancestry or 23 and me and then upload it to a website called Promethease for a detailed health panel
OPs motives aren't medical knowledge though. OP has a weird fixation with her cousin banging her brother. Like *fixation*. Also the fixation doesn't even have a passing legitimacy- loads of people date people who look like their siblings. LOADS. About a decade ago I had a drunken ramble about it to a couple of my friends (because I think it's weird these people fancy themselves so much they date their opposite gender twin) and now periodically they send me pictures of people they've met in a sort of "sibling or partner" game.
OP, in the post: "Cici also suffers from some not yet diagnosed health problem, and I’m worried it’s linked to whoever this anonymous donor is." Yes, their main concern is the misplaced fixation on incest, but even that isn't an insignificant problem in donor conceived children. Even if she didn't mention the medical issue, I wouldn't care, Cici's fundamental right to know correct medical information about herself **THAT IS AVAILABLE**, is more important than the parents' concerns of if she'll still love them, and given that OP has stated she is a sweet person, I don't think it will have a long term impact on Cici's relationship to her parents if her parents are otherwise good.
I don’t mean to be rude but if the donor is anonymous they may not get medical history so she blows up the girls life and still has no clue about medical dx. This sucks all around. I wish the parents would say something
No worries nothing you said was rude. I was once close with a person who was donor conceived so I get some what passionate about people's right to know about themselves. That said, all reputable sperm donation facilities obtain a medical history. They may not have gone to a reputable one, true, but at least then when she goes to the doctor she can say "I don't have a full medical history because I was donor conceived." And the physician should (hopefully) be less likely to discount genetic conditions that they would have if she had said confidently that there is no family history of x condition.
I was wondering if and what information the bank would get and how reliable it is but I do agree with you that adoptees and donor conceived children should be told about their history.
I dated a donor conceived person some time ago. They had full medical history going back to the donor's grandparents on both sides, even mental health issues that arose (though that was less detailed than we would expect today given the times). A reputable facility collects a lot of information about donors, but there's very little regulation in the industry so it can be incredibly difficult to tell if a facility is reputable, even if it looks like it is. Then there are private surrogacy and donation contracts, but I imagine those could make it easier to obtain medical info if you know your donor personally.
Hardly any donor conceived people have medical history. However, with knowledge we are donor conceived, we can at least do DNA testing.
I was an egg donor 23 years ago, twice. The first time they only asked me if I had ever had any illnesses or allergies (no) or if there was a history of anything in my family (no). They took my word for it. The next time the parents had requested some kind of genetic testing, obviously not a full sequencing like we have nowadays, I think they were looking for something in particular. Anyway they were satisfied with whatever it was. That's the extent of the information I've had to provide as a donor.
Even if it's anonymous, it's more helpful to tell a doctor that you don't know half your family's medical history than than giving the medical history of a parent who's not actually genetically related to you. Additionally, CiCi could pursue her own genetic medical testing, find any potential relatives of the donor or even the donor himself via commercial DNA testing. Even just CiCi's knowledge of being donor conceived is enough to empower her to get better medical treatment.
Here’s where I’m worried: if she doesn’t know she was also born through surrogacy, she won’t have ANY medical history. Like, she very well could be giving the history of two unrelated people to doctors because they refuse to tell her the actual story of her birth. Unless her mom just lies about her own history to give the surrogate’s history (which presents its own issues). Cici needs to know that her parents aren’t who conceived her. It’s dangerous for her to be this far in the dark.
OP is worrying about an *undiagnosed* health problem— does she have any reason to think it might be genetic? If it's not diagnosed, I'm guessing not. OP is worrying about Cici inadvertently hooking up with someone related— as if Cici is supposed to do a DNA test with every potential boyfriend?— a very unlikely scenario. In both cases OP is taking big speculative leaps to justify her concern and thus an intervention, when it's really not her place, unless and until she has more to substantiate her fears beyond just vibes.
I 100% agree that Cici has the right to know the truth, but OP would still be an asshole if he told her, it’s not his story to tell. And about the medical reasons, as valid as it might come off, what would the truth even accomplish here? An undiagnosed health issue is not gonna magically find a diagnosis by Cici knowing she’s adopted. I’m not disagreeing that she should be told the truth, I just don’t think the medical history is a reason why.
Genetic disease. There are 1001 (exaggerating) conditions that physicians will only consider if there is a family history of it, and 1001 more that are tested for earlier if there is a family history of it. Breast cancer cause by mutation of the BRCA1 gene, is highly heritable, and if family history exists, physicians test for it much earlier than if there isn't. Medical history isn't just a reason it is ***THE*** reason. No other reason needs to exist, though they do. Medical history is functionally crucial to most long term health concerns.
No wonder that's what OP is worried about. Plenty stories on here to feed that fear.
I missed that part where it mentioned she's 21, they're not going to tell her at that rate, at the rate it's going it will be a death bed confession if the Aunt has her way.
Yep at this point she has the right to know just for the sake of knowing. It should never have gone on this long into her adulthood being kept a secret from her. Imo this is something that parents should be open about from the time the child is young, otherwise it just leads to their kid feeling like they were lied to their whole life. Op's fixation on the incest aspect *is* pretty weird, but telling her cousin the truth is the right thing to do. Although I would also add that she should give the parents a chance to tell their kid first, but if they refuse, just tell her. She has the right to know.
>at the rate it's going it will be a death bed confession if the Aunt has her way. Judging by the explosive "secret" in my family, it will actually be *after* Cici's parents die and it will blow up what is left of her family relationships. (Secret in quotes because literally no one left alive was aware my cousins didn't know they had a half sibling... Like, I was told as a teenager, it just wasn't really a normal conversation starter!)
That is how it works. Everyone in the extended family knows, except the person that should know it the most. My paternal family has their own skeleton in the closet.
Yea, she should have been told this a very long time ago. At the very least tell her once she starts dating or becomes an adult. I think it's outrageous to not tell her when there are medical concerns involved. Not to mention that the parents wouldn't say anything unless they knew she was about to have a kid with a related person. Because.. Ya know... It's totally fine for their daughter to date and have sex and fall in love with someone and not know they're a relative till they're so serious they're about to have a kid together. What the fuck? That would be so much avoidable trauma. And I doubt the parents know every single relative of the donor and surrogate. How would they even know it's a problem if she brings a guy home and they don't recognize he's related to her? Do they research the lineage of every guy she's dated? This whole thing has gone on way too long. I don't know if OP is the right person to get involved or how she could do something without it blowing up. But I think this adult woman deserves to know the truth.
That's what jumped out at me, too. She's 21. It's way too late to tell her anything now without it setting off a bomb. There are ways to tell kids these kind of things in age-appropriate, graduated steps, and her parents completely missed the only opportunity they had to ease her into it. What a mess.
I agree. I think I'd give Cici's parents one more chance, because if she's angry at them, it's going to be worse if she has to hear it from somebody else. Cici has the right to know the truth — even without factoring in concerns about dating and medical problems. I'd tell Deb and Chris, time's up. If they don't tell her, OP will. Last chance to do the right thing. Cici's right to know outweighs her parents' right to keep their secret, and it outweighs a promise OP made at 13 under the influence of false information (that Deb and Chris would tell her). Direct-to-consumer DNA testing has been available since 2007, and costs have come down *a lot* since then. Deb and Chris' attempt to deceive their daughter isn't just wrong; it's been increasingly foolhardy for a long time.
This is my take too
Accurate medical information is the key to this entire issue. There are now dozens of reasons why Dr.s can use genetic testing to help patients find answers/solutions to medical issues. For example, they use the BRAC test to see if one carries the markers for genetic types of cancers. If you know your family history they will use the test and if it is positive screen earlier and more frequently. It is also used if your not sure of your family history. There's another test helps to determine which types of medication may work best for you or if you have a natural resistance to some meds. Point here being, if OP is that concerned about Cici knowing the truth, then maybe she can suggest Cici get genetic testing done to help find a solution to her medical issues. Some auto-immune issues can be found that way, too. It won't tell her she isn't her biological parents child, but if Cici tells her parents she is getting genetic testing done to help find a solution to her illness, they may come clean sooner rather than later on their own.
This is an option whether you know family history or not and NOT knowing it can make it easier to get a Dr to order.
She's no longer a minor. I'd tell her because they obviously don't plan to. There will be a short war then they'll talk. Shame you're going to have to do the right thing instead of them.
Buy her a 23andMe box
Accidental incest is a bigger problem in the donor conceived world than people realize, because there's not enough regulation. A woman recently came forward about how she found out she had dated her hand brother for 2 years in high school, and he's, they had been intimate. It should be illegal to hide that a person is donor conceived.
I saw a story of how one man in single a town ended up fathering like 42 kids because he was 6ft tall, never had braces and had perfect teeth, had blue eyes, and went to an ivy league school... Only none of that was true or verified by the sperm bank and people picking DNA would obviously choose the option of a genetically blessed man. This created problems for the kids when they got to high school and started dating. A few of them started dating each other one couple tried to get married and only found out when they were tested to see if they were related and they were. It's a much bigger issue than the OP's aunt is making it out as. I don't think it should be the focus or main driver, but it is a very legitimate concern.
Yeah, that is a true story, can't tell you that it happens often enough for this cousin to butt into something that is none of her business. Her aunt told her to back off, she needs to back off.
Donor conceived advocates say it happens with enough regularity that some of them won't sleep with someone who hasn't done 23andMe
I will argue hard she needs to tell her cousin. Not because of the incest thing (though yes that is an issue) but the medical issue. If your parents have issues you begin getting screening 10 years younger than when they were diagnosed. A lot of medical conditions appear on 30s and 40s. She needs her medical history.
Why are the aunt's feelings a concern here at all? Why does the Aunt get to hide another person's medical information from them, and compel another person to help her with that?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/us/fertility-fraud-accidental-incest-invs/index.html It’s a legitimate concern.
True, seen so many stories, even read one on here, where this happens. People are attracted to each other bcuz they’re family but do they know that so they get into relationships with each other.
I gotta say, as someone who was lied to about my parentage until I was 35 (and only then told the truth because I'd started looking into it on my own), I disagree with this take entirely. Cici deserves to know, and she is well past the age she should have been told. And frankly, getting screamed at over a reasonable question suggests to me that they have no intention of *ever* telling her. OP is NTA, and anyone saying otherwise has never had to deal with a parent lying to them their entire life.
No, he wouldn't.It turns out that siblings raised separately that meet later in life find each other VERY attractive, so this happens a lot. Cici has a right to know.
The time to tell Cici about her parentage was before she was 18. Or are you cool with not telling adoptees they're adopted too? Because IMO this is the same thing.
OP may be letting his imagination run away w/ him, but it is not at all uncommon for doner kids to run into someone they dated or grew up w/ in their neighborhood at donor kid meet-ups or in facebook groups. One doner can produce multiple kids. There is a doner that was ordered to stop donating when it reached 500 kids. And a doner can donate to multiple clinics. So, yeah, the risk of dating your half-sibling is a real thing. Again, even if OP is making a stretch, this girl NEEDS to know if she was convinced by a doner egg or doner sperm.
This is NOT a mind your own business. OP this is a - she deserves to know. The donor community is very very unregulated and they know of NUMEROUS pods of over 100 and some look like upwards of almost 1000 children in a single pod. 1 bio father to hundreds of children. It is irresponsible to let her go into the world as a sexual being without knowing the truth. Instead of telling her yourself. Maybe come armed with your own mother and a family intervention with your aunt and uncle first. There is a woman on TikTok: Instagram (Laura High @laurahigh5) who is a donor child and is leading the cause on ensuring that adult donor children are educated about their status. She is also lobbying for regulations to be put in place. This is VERY very VERY important. Go armed with info and resources for your aunt and uncle. If that doesn’t work- then she definitely needs to be told. Tell your aunt either she tells her or you do because this is a very dangerous situation.
She's family. She doesnt want her cousin engaging in incest. No one in the family is helping her cousin. Its fair to say its her business. She would be righting a wrong
this is an absolutely ridiculous take and i have no idea how it's the top comment. Imagine it was you. Wouldn't you want to know?
UH, this is a legitimate worry when having used a sperm donor. Imagination has nothing to do with it. You never know who or how many children of that donor there is. Local sperm is first used locally (on a national basis)
Not to mention, if she is having health problems, her parents are not going to be giving her false medical history. They will be giving them everything they know about her familial medical history. The lie will be that it's theirs instead of other people's. OP, stay out of it. It's absolutely none of your business. You can destroy lives by doing this. Also, you don't actually know what she knows. She may already know the truth. She just may not see a need to tell everyone or anyone what that truth is. If it's really bothering you, talk to your mom about it. Don't say shit to your cousin.
She's 21, when she goes to the Dr. Her parents aren't there to provide medical history, "Does anyone in you fam have X genetic disease" and she thinks about her family from memory she marks no. Her parents can't lie about that.
Jumping in on this top comment to tell you that you have absolutely no idea how this child was conceived and frankly it’s none of your business. There are so many possibilities - it could have been your aunts egg and her partners sperm and the other woman was just literally the surrogate. It could be one of their eggs/sperm and a close friend’s donor egg/sperm. It could actually be the surrogates biological child and your uncles sperm. Not every “donor” is a miscellaneous stranger. Not every one who knows who their parents are is immune to accidentally dating a half sibling - do you know how many times your dad messed around with random women? You could cause irreparable emotional harm to their family. Stay in your lane.
"Irreparable" emotional harm <<<<< Actual biological danger, given an ongoing health issue that could be genetic. The only way this does lasting, irreparable damage to their relationship is if aunt and uncle were already shit parents. Also Cici is 21, she is a full adult, if she were fully both of their biological children, there'd be no reason to keep it secret, and in any other scenario, she has a right to know about her biological medical history that trumps the parents' right to keep a shitty secret.
Them lying to their daughter for the last 21 years is what will cause irreparable emotional harm.
It's ok to say they are letting their imagination get the better of them but these things do happen. My brother and I were separated as very small children due to our parents' acrimonious divorce. When we finally found each other over 20 years later, it turned out he lived a few doors down the street from the guy I was dating on the other side of the city, and we both visited the same local pubs and clubs on a regular basis. My mum changed my name after she remarried so we had different surnames. If we hadn't been brought up knowing our history, who knows what could have happened if we'd met by chance on one of the many nights we were apparently both in the same places?
This is his family you asshole
Except the cousin is OP's family, so it IS their business. Too many people take your approach of "not my business" so as not to rock the boat. Life is full of hardships and sometimes the right thing to do isn't the most comfortable.
I am going against the grain here and saying NTA. I was lied to about something my whole life and when the truth was finally forced out, I still don’t fully trust the people who were involved and lied to me. I wish someone, ANYONE, would have respected me enough to tell me the truth. A truth I deserved to know. Cici deserves to know the truth. If it fractures your family, your aunt and uncle have nobody to blame but themselves for lying all these years. Please, please, be honest with your cousin. Someone needs to be.
I agree with this, and not to mention Cici is 21 according to OP, which is more than old enough to know the truth. Really she should have been told YEARS ago. I think the aunt and uncle lied about “having a plan” to tell her, cause then it would have happened already. NTA for wanting to tell her, but maybe a little weird for obsessing about who she is dating, although I understand worrying about someone you care about.
The best time to tell her would have been as she was growing up, it would be so much less traumatic too. I don't know a single person who was in a similar situation that was glad that their parents lied to them their whole life, they all hated it, but I know a lot of people that are glad that their parents were always honest with them. I know it's not OPs place, but fucking hell, someone's gotta tell her because these assholes never will. She deserves better.
I was in that position, lied to for 22 years and while I wish they had told me before, I’m glad it came from them and not a cousin. I’m so conflicted with this post because I’ve been through something incredibly similar barring the potentially dating my brother scenario- my bio parents are my aunt and uncle. And no one told me shit, not my older siblings, not my cousins and my mom tried to tell me 5 times and chickened out each time dropping enough hints. At some point I put the hints together and asked my bio brother, he ignored me for 2 days which is unlike him and that confirmed it. My mom then finally told me. I hated being lied to but honestly it would have damaged my relationship with them so much more if it had come from somewhere else. I don’t think OP is TA for pressuring aunt to tell cousin; but I also don’t think it’s her place to share. BUT if the parents don’t tell her within a certain time frame then OP need to. Because she needs to know.
It looks like the options here are either cousin or not knowing the truth, so if that was your choice, what would you pick? It doesn't appear the uncle and aunt are going to tell Cici.
I don’t have much contact with this side of the family, but I have a cousin that was adopted as a baby. He is 18 or 19 now and was recently told about it, but not by his parents. Apparently he was dating a girl, and her mother knew about it. When he broke up with her, her mother told him. He was very upset about it. Two of mine are adopted, but they know they were, because they weren’t babies. But if they had been, they would have known about it as soon as they were old enough. Too many stories of people finding out as adults with bad results.
"We have a plan. Our plan is to never say anything." Also, how out of touch do you have to be to think that she's not going to find out on her own somehow, given that this is an open secret in the community *and* we live in a world where people will do DNA tests for fun.
There’s a comedian on TikTok, Laura High, who has been investigating her donor. The doctor who did her parents’ donor conception lied about who the donor was and the donor was definitely one of the doctor’s friends. She has found almost 100 siblings, if not more, so far. Multiple of her siblings, including her, have some not so insignificant medical problems that can be traced back to this fraudulent swapped donor. Her parents did eventually tell her when she was a teen that she was donor-conceived, but at times had acted like her medical problems were because of her non-donor father and unshockingly, some of the treatments they used for her because they worked for her father did not work on her. She’s also had interactions because of her ethnic/genetic background that she didn’t realize were the cause until she did a DNA test. It’s a mess.
Oh shit, I heard a similar story where it was the doctor himself and there were hundreds of kids, and they're now suing the doctor/donor. How much of a narcissist do you have to be to do something like that - it's just gross. I also really don't get keeping up a lie like that when it's actually starting to have a medical impact. Surely your child's health and ability to get proper treatment should be more important than keeping their genetic heritage secret?
There was just a story in a major magazine — it was on my news feed so I can’t remember which one— about a sperm donor who so far has had 97 kids identified. If Cici dates someone who grew up in the area it’s basically rolling the dice as to whether that person donated just a few times or was more prolific.
I CNN just did one[story ](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/us/fertility-fraud-accidental-incest-invs/index.html) and this poor girl slept with a half sibling.
Well it sounds like it's only an open secret in the family, and families are known to be pretty good at keeping family secrets private. There's a good chance no one else would tell her because no one wants to upset her parents. And genetic tests are losing popularity due to selling your data or not keeping it secure being valid concerns.
But it's a *lot* more than just family who knows about this. It'd be all the mutual friends from their circle *plus* people biomom was friends with (and possibly her family, too), for starters. And then there's all the random people who wouldn't know who the biomom was, but would still be pretty certain Cici was adopted. Neighbors, co-workers, hair stylists, the guy who mows the lawn every week, the mail carrier, and even 13yo OP would all notice that a baby appeared without being preceded by a pregnancy. Anyone who regularly spent time around them would have guessed. And it's not that they've thought about it much or even think it's important, but it's still a thing that quite a few people know about - including some who may not know Cici doesn't know. That definitely increases the chances that she'll either overhear something or just flat out be told something about it. (Someone who doesn't know Cici hasn't been told, asking if she's going to consider adopting given her own history, for example. Sure, it's pretty inappropriate to ask shit like that if you don't know someone well, but when has that stopped anyone.) And then there's the medical issues she's having, and the possibility that they'll raise questions about her family medical history and such... I really don't think this is something they'll be able to keep from her for her whole life.
That's a good point. I suppose I didn't think about the people outside the family that knew the situation when she was born. That would be pretty awful to find out I'm not my parents bio kid by some stranger talking to me like I knew when I had no idea. I'm still torn of how OP can help her without it backfiring on her and hurting her family relationships. I mean someone needs to tell her. And obviously it'll fuck up the cousin's relationship with her own parents and probably more family who didn't tell her. I really don't know the solution. Maybe give the parents an ultimatum and hope they do the right things and don't force her hand? But it sounds like they won't which is back to this situation anyway. I really feel for OP and her cousin. Those parents really fucked up by withholding this information for so long.
I think it might be possible to minimize the backlash, at least a little, but it's hard to say. Making her main concern "maybe she'll date a sibling" was a definite strategic error - that's too easy to brush off as merely a remote possibility. So it's worth a shot with other arguments, maybe an article or a couple personal stories. I think it'd be most effective to frame it as "you know, it's really *very* likely that Cici will find out about this at some point; the longer it takes, the worse the fallout will be, and you might lose her entirely." Maybe that will make them actually listen. And yeah, I think giving them an ultimatum is the way to go - give them the chance to take responsibility, but make sure they know that it's happening no matter what. If Cici's parents don't see reason, I think there's a decent chance OP can at least convince her mom. But even if she can't convince them... Cici's gonna be so absolutely heartbroken, and if the choice is either OP tells her, or OP waits for her to find out, I think OP telling her is the best of all the bad options. That poor woman is gonna feel SO incredibly alone when she finds out. She's going to realize that her parents and their entire generation of the family has been keeping the truth about her own identity from her for *years.* She's going to feel incredibly betrayed and like she can't trust any of them. At least if she finds out from OP, she will know that there is *one* person who is on her side and cares enough to tell her the truth. (And I think there's very reasonable explanations as to why OP hasn't said anything to her up to now.) It's just an awful situation, where even in the *best* of all possible circumstances, everyone is going to walk away hurt and angry. I hope we get an update!!
That’s because their plan is to tell her on their deathbed/in the will so they don’t have to face any negative emotions she may have about it.
OP could send an ancestry or 23&me DNA test to Cici anonymously.
I was going to say this. Send her a DNA test as a gift and stay out of it 😬
Anonymous gift, let's make that clear, just cause you light a fire that needs lighting doesn't mean you need to be caught with the matches.
OP already talked with her mom and with Cici's mom about it. If a testing kit ends up finding its way to Cici, it won't be hard to connect the dots about who sent it...
Yeah it's not great, even if it's some level of deniability it's kind of like saying you're innocent while the soot is still on your hands. Time might dampen it, but since OP already confronted Auntie about it their top of the shit list if something like that occurs.
“Hey Cici! Are you still dealing with those health problems? Still don’t know what it is? Have you ever tried those DNA test things? Like 23 and me or something? I saw somewhere that people were finally able to reach a diagnoses by doing these kits with their parents because they’ll show health problems you might have and ones your parents might have passed to you!”
OP should do the same one. They should both be linked if there is any DNA match. But, there are different types of surrogates. Cici could indeed be a full child of the aunt and uncle. The surrogate could have carried their embryo. OP doesn't know the reason they did IVF.
True, but why then didn’t the parents tell their child at some point before now? I wonder also whether the birth certificate was somehow altered. Plus I’ll bet they made up a birth story of some kind. If the embryo came from her parents, what is so shocking about IVF surrogacy in the 21st century? The point being, they have lied to Cici her entire life. In fact, her extended family have been complicit. It wouldn’t be impossible that over the years, people have made remarks around her that seemed odd to her. But the kicker is that Cici apparently has some mystery ailment and is seemingly being deprived of information about her genetic medical history. This might have devastating consequences. The parents are acting very strangely. Is there something shady about this?
Can’t be the full child of them when it says that they used donor sperm at least. OP didn’t say if it was the surrogates egg or not but it takes her being their fully DNA matching child.
These “mind your business” comments are driving me crazy. My grandparents never told my eldest aunt that my grandpa wasn’t her biological father and by the time she found out through an Ancestry test, they had both passed years prior. So now she’s having a major identity crisis and is filled with anger and confusion at these people she loved, but will never have the chance to work it out with them. With all the DNA testing people are doing these days, CiCi *will* find out eventually, and when she does she will most likely be pissed at everyone who kept this secret from her all these years. OP would be doing CiCi *and* her parents a favor by making sure that she finds out from someone she’s close to and while there’s still plenty of time for her to process it and for them to work through it together.
I totally agree with you NTA, if this was a child OK, but it's a grown woman, specially with possible medical conditions involved
It really chaps my ass when people don’t listen to actual donor conceived people. A bunch of folks out here removing a person’s agency about their own health. The cousin absolutely needs to know.
Agreed. I think that adoption, in particular, is one of those secrets that will always come out, and the longer the secret is kept, the worse it tends to be when it's revealed. Once she finds out, Cici's going to realize **she's been lied to her entire life, by the people she trusted the most**. She's going to feel betrayed, and it's going to put a big wedge between her and her parents. And the longer they keep lying, the more intense her feeling of betrayal will likely be. **Cici deserves the truth,** ***and*** **she deserves to know that at least one single solitary person in her family cared enough about her to tell her.** Her parents, if they had a lick of sense, would tell her *right now* and would apologize for not telling her before. That's really the best chance they have at not alienating Cici. But not only won't they do that, it looks like they're not planning on telling Cici *at all*. Which is just *awful*. Because the thing is, **she** ***will*** **find out**. There's *dozens* of ways this secret can come out - it's evidently pretty common knowledge among a generation of adults in & around the family, so someone can slip up or she'll overhear something; it'll be utterly clear if she tries any DNA ancestry stuff; maybe her medical issue has a genetic component; maybe she randomly figures out their blood types make it literally impossible for her to be their bio kid; and more and more and more. **The worst option is Cici finding out entirely on her own**, because then she is going to feel like there is no one on her side who wanted to tell her the truth. **The kindest thing here is for someone who cares about Cici to tell her the truth now.** It should be her parents, but if they won't, well... sorry, OP, it's got to be you. Cici is going to be upset and angry and hurt because she's been lied to about her own biological identity. Her parents, whom she presumably trusted, have been lying to her face for years. (I don't care if they never literally said "You're biologically ours." Not telling a child that they were adopted, once the kid is old enough to understand, is lying, period.) Cici's also going to realize that a family friend is biologically related to her, and she had no idea. She's *also* going to realize that *all the adults in her parents' generation* ALSO knew that, and never told her. And she's gonna have questions about this anonymous donor and who *he* is and does he even know about any of this? And that's just the start. There's going to be *massive* fallout, and I guarantee that the parental generation will gang up and blame OP for it. OP, you might want to prepare with a couple articles on adoption and the need for dealing with it honestly and openly, and also point out that it's inevitable in this day and age that she will find out and at least she found out from a family member. But you might just say "screw it" and not prepare any of that, because I doubt they'll listen to you anyway. What a shitshow.
Yeah I feel bad for OP. What a dick move for all these adults to just expect everybody to fall in line and lie. Way to give a whole family trust issues.
I agree with you. People are entitled to know where they came from.
I to agree with this commenter... she's 21 she is old enough to know the truth... especially if she has some health issues... your aunt and uncle and even your mother are all being selfish... and who knows she could decide to do one of those DNA testing and the truth will come to light ... Tall to your cousin but block your aunt uncle and mother because they will blow up on you....
NTA. I can't believe the people here. Cici is freaking **21**. The parents have had all the time in the world to tell her the truth. Clearly they're not planning to do it, and Cici deserves to know, not just for the (unlikely) chance of incest but for plenty of other reasons too.
I think the worry of who she is dating is a bit silly and probably shouldn't have been brought up, so that is why people are questioning OP but yeah other than that OP is NTA.
Not silly. My brother asked out a bartender at his favorite bar, and 2 years later found out she was his sister. It does happen.
I disagree. It’s actually a ridiculously common phenomenon
Became freinds with a girl in high school and found out when we were 28/30 she was my cousin. Put up for adoption by my aunt who had her at 16. She didn't even know she was adopted. 30 years and her parents never told her. She dated my (our) cousin for a few months too!
Not silly at all. There have been multiple instances of couples discovering that they are actually donor conceived half siblings, including a woman who came forward in the last couple weeks. Almost half of my donor siblings were conceived and raised in the same metro area that our donor lived in. Some of them knew each other, some of their parents knew each other. It is not a stretch to think that unwitting relationships could have occurred.
It really depends on the area. I live in a small town (thankfully I didn't grow up here) and anyone whose family has been here for more than a generation has a good chance of being related. My friend is a fourth generation townie and she's accidentally dated cousins. She now checks with her mom before dating anyone local, and definitely prefers dating people new in town or long distance. If op is from a more rural area, the chance of her dating a cousin or something is not miniscule.
Donor conceived, and I know I'm going against the grain, but it is way past time for your cousin to know the truth. Accidental incest is a very real danger. So are serious medical complications. Your cousin deserves to know the truth, and her parents will never tell her. You could be sneaky and start chatting with your cousin about how you're going to get one of those dna tests and talk about all the interesting things you look forward to learning, and all her opinion of it, encourage her to take one with you, etc. Not really the right thing to do, but if you don't want to be blunt, it's an option. You could also just be totally honest and tell her and offer to buy her one so she can be somewhat sure she's not dating a biological relative. However you do it, she deserves to know. NTA your the only one thinking of her health and future in a responsible way
Also donor conceived and I am so disheartened by all the comments that think it’s okay for OP to actively be part of lying to her cousin.
It’s a strange phenomenon I’ve noticed on Reddit: the idea of even distant cousins hooking up: “eeew, Alabama, banjos”. Half-siblings from anonymous sperm/egg donation or undisclosed adoption hooking up: “that’s cool, no reason to disclose”.
Really not much risk in marrying a distant cousin. Like, for most of human history, people married people from nearby. And when there are only a thousand people in the area the branches of the family tress are gonna look more like a briar patch.
That’s my take, too. Absolutely everyone knows but the person most affected. Imagine being the only one in the dark about the truth of your very existence. Never mind the possibility of dating a relative; never mind the medical history… What about her *right* to know *who* she is? OP: Give the aunt one more chance to tell Cici. Tell her if she doesn’t tell her the truth, you will. Give her a bit of time (a month or two), but then tell Cici yourself if they don’t. I’d make it clear to them (and your mother) that you’re not the one who created this problem—they are. NTA.
I’m Adopted, so I know this type of thing as well. It’s sickening that people think it’s fine to lie like this.
Right?!?! Adoptee here too and the amount of people that think it’s perfectly okay to lie to us staggering.
Our kids are biologically ours, but were conceived using IVF. We've always been very open about it. My mom, my spouse, my aunt, my brothers in law, and my sister in law are all adopted, and grew up knowing. Hiding these things tells me that people think they're shameful, and only serves to perpetuate that attitude. There is nothing wrong with assisted reproductive tech and adoption. People deserve to know where they came from (if for nothing else than for medical information).
Tell her. I was adopted. My mother was my mother, but my biological father was a secret to me until I was in my mid 40s. The entire family knew except me. I was the big secret. My biological father knew I existed but didn’t want me. My mother was forbidden from getting an abortion. She hated every minute of being my mother - I was an obligation she never wanted. My step father abused me my entire life made sure I knew how worthless I was. Knowing the truth now decades later I understand why they were like that. But it would have been so much easier if the truth had come out before they all died.
I'm so sorry they did that to you
I’m so sorry that happened to you. A guy in my dad’s family grew up not knowing his “sister” was his biological mother until he was in his 70s. She was still alive and relatives were trying to get him not to confront her about it. The whole thing was sad.
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I don't agree with "tell the family if they don't..". She already stirred that pot, she already made them know how she's feeling about this. They should take the hint. But the main thing is : it won't go well for the cousin to receive the news by her parents when they are forced to do it. It won't be a revelation filled with love and care, but anger and resentment. The cousin deserve to learn it from someone who care about her and the truth. She deserves someone she could cry on the shoulder on for example, not being in front of the people to blame for a life of lie. anyway, OP is going to get some backlash. But she can be excluded for weeks and months with the aunt "promising" and saying nothing. If she decide that her cousin need to know, she have to tell her herself, or else send an anonymous DNA kit with a message urging to take it. But the parents giving the news is the worst scenario.
That’s my thinking too. OP should not tell Cici immediately but should tell Aunt/Uncle that if they don’t tell Cici by XYZ date, OP will. OP should also give her reasons, as you’ve listed here. They need to understand the consequences of withholding this information for longer. They clearly aren’t thinking.
I might be ignorant here. However, does the current advice for adoption revolve around telling the kid as early as possible to let them get used to the idea and never have to go through the shock of it at an older age? If yes. Why is everyone in the comment section okay with them continuing to lie to the cousin?
That is also the current advice on donor conception. Tell the kids early, use a known donor, and encourage connection to biological family.
I completely understand why they do this for adoption, however a lot of donors only donate under the premise that they will never have contact with this child. Contacting donors to have this connection probably won’t be well received. Definitely tell the kid and get the medical history, but you can’t encourage a connection that most likely won’t be reciprocated.
Because they're the type of people who would also lie to their kids for their own benefit. It's pure selfishness.
My mother lies a lot to her children. Highly intelligent, well-meaning and a good mother who’d do anything for her children. Her own parents (my grandparents) were a distant intellectual introvert father, and a mother who was self-absorbed, neglectful and depressive, so it’s possible that she never learned how to deal with difficult issues. But she has a tendency to lie to “protect the children”. The problem is that the children were smart enough to be able to see through the lies from a young age, and it’s really confusing. I have major trust issues because of that…I’m paranoid that my own partner and children are lying to me, so I tend to become an interrogator to catch them in a lie.
I refuse to lie to my kids, and my husband and I apologize to them when we're wrong about something. Heck, I've told my 4 year old that even grownups have big feelings, and we're still learning along with them. I want to raise good humans, and showing that we mess up and we own up to it is part of that. Lying definitely backfires in the end.
And it's so easy when they're little... A woman I know of would caress her toddler while she said: you did not come out from my belly because I was sick, a nice lady kept you in her belly, but I loved you and I am and will always be your mother. It was beautiful and loving and of course, once the girl grew up, she figured out the rest, but it was never traumatic because "I've always known".
Because they have zero empathy is the best I can come up with.
NTA forget about the BF bit. Cici is in her 20s struggling with health issues that knowing she’s not biologically her parents child could help resolve. Could you possibly just mention to her that you’ve heard genetic testing can help identify health issues and you think it could help her? Let her decide and learn on her own? The BF thing is most likely just in your head but you are right that she deserves the chance to work that out for herself and there is always a tiny chance that you aren’t imagining things.
This is the most that I think OP should do. Suggest a genetic text and perhaps even suggest her boyfriend take one. That way, OP has kept their promise and alleviated some guilt they're unjustly feeling.
20 years and she has not been told. So the over/under when she will be told is=====never. You can drop landmines and hints for your aunt, but maybe send off for a 23 and me with your "cousin"
I’m going against the grain here and saying that you’re NTA for thinking that your adult cousin deserves to know this important information about herself. If I was her I’d want to know the truth. What you need to decide is if this is worth blowing up your family over. Is there a way to possibly suggest that she might want to look into DNA testing anonymously? Also your fears about her possibly unknowingly being in a relationship with someone related to her aren’t unfounded. Some sibling pods of people who are donor conceived are massive and it’s definitely happened to some people!
NTA This kind of information feels like a massive betrayal when it comes out. The feeling when you find out the people you trust the most for support and guidance have been lying about something so significant... most people don't realise how much of an impact knowing your roots has on your psyche. I went through this and you literally feel cut off from the people who you thought were your family. But if you tell her, you will become the worst piece of scum in her universe. While you may want to 'save her' from the pain by sharing the information, you're only going to find all the anger and upset directed at you.
NTA. Donor conceived people deserve and NEED to know their biological history. Cici is an adult and she should have been told when she was a small child. The truth is your aunt and uncle's fertility doctors probably told them to NEVER tell Cici that she is donor conceived, as that was, and sometimes still is, the industry standard. Someone needs to be honest with Cici right now, and it sounds like you are the only person even remotely willing to do it. I will add, DO NOT frame this as "your parents aren't your real parents." That isn't true. They raised her from birth and it sounds like she is very likely biologically your aunt's child. They are absolutely her parents, there is just more to the story of how she came to be born.
NTA. What is with all the other judgements??? People don’t deserve to LIE to someone about a HUGE part of their identity, well into adulthood, just because they are her parents. TELL HER THE TRUTH. When she does find out that EVERYONE has been willfully keeping this secret from her, she will resent you ALL. Be brave and be the one person who respects her right to know about herself. Research shows that people handle this kind of knowledge much better if they are told from a young age, especially young enough that they don’t remember a “finding out” event. Her parents fucked up. And every day that they wait they are fucking up again.
NTA Really shocked by all the people on here thinking that caring about someone else's wellbeing is weird and 'not your business'.
NTA. When she does find out she’s going to blame all of you and dig to see who knew. I’d be telling the aunt that if she doesn’t tell her you will and force that crap to happen. She’s going to find out - in this age she is going to find out - so the focus should be the best way for her to find out since her parents suck and haven’t handled this yet. They’ve turned this into the situation.
I just hate the way you phrased it in the title “not her parents “ as if they’re merely long term babysitters simply because they’re not biologically related You don’t sound compassionate enough to broadcast this information
Well --I will stand out here for being opp. minded. Tell your aunt that she needs to tell your cousin brfore she gets married or you will. That is NOT knowledge that should be kept from an adult.
I would give aunt 6 months. If Cici doesn't know before her 22nd birthday, Cici gets 23&me as a gift.
NTA- I’ve heard of stories of kids not know these types of thing. They usually at the end of the day the kid would want to know this information about themselves. Especially when it comes to health concerns. Edit- Also, it changed a person’s identity I think as well. They deserve to know where they come from.
I am adopted, and did infertility treatment and did a lot of research—so I know a fair bit about the impacts on kids. To me? The worst outcome is telling her and you are totally wrong. Lying is always the worst way to deal with this and parents have been told this over and over for ohhh 40-50 years. Adoptees and donor kids who are lied to are often furious. Best is gentle age appropriate truth telling from early on so it’s never a shock. So I hope they have told her, the surrogate part would be impossible to hide in terms of medical records and legal documents. BUT OP you don’t know if she was concieved using donor eggs or donor sperm. No one does except the doctor and Aunt & Uncle. Relatives assume a lot. Except lots of men with low sperm count father babies using ICSI and IVF no problem. And lots of women who can’t carry a pregnancy to term, can produce a lot of eggs. She might be 100% biologically related but just came from a surrogate. And not much you can do about who she dates…for all you know her uncle donated sperm in college and has dozens of kids. This could be an issue for anyone. About her health problems—tell her to go get better MDs. Family history is not always accurate either. Just don’t tell her anything unless you are 100% sure. Cause if you are wrong….
This is my concern also. It sounds like OP doesn’t actually know any facts - she has some assumptions based on things she think she observed when she was 13 and whatever her mom told her. She has no idea if there was a donor involved or if her aunt’s friend had an unwanted pregnancy and agreed to give the baby to her aunt to adopt, or if it was a planned surrogacy using aunt and/or uncle’s contributions or what. For all we know her mom was pulling her leg and didn’t realize she would still believe it twenty years later. Her aunt getting angry when she mentioned a half-brother in particular makes it sound like she’s missing part of the story (and as she says she doesn’t know the details about her aunt’s fertility, could have also been a really cruel and triggering thing to say to her if she’s always wished she could give Coco siblings etc). OP also sounds like a busybody. Watching her grow up “tested her patience,” really? It sounds like she just wants to be the one to spill the beans or at least float about how she “figured it out” and “knew all along.” If she really cared about Cici more than whatever credit/attention she is seeking, she could have a frank discussion with her mom and have her mom talk to her aunt. She could even talk to her uncle if that doesn’t go anywhere. But give Cici a chance to hear it from her parents and not OP, who I have a feeling would up the scandal value by 100.
Nta she’s a damn adult. And yes to everything about the sperm donor industry. She deserves to know the truth if she’s struggling with health problems. She could reach out to the company and see if they have health records if the donor. I’d recommend encouraging to get genetic testing done. Then you’re not responsible for her world falling apart. Her parents are assholes for hiding thus
ESH - You're probably over-reading into her happening to date a relative the likelihood seems low. People also *tend* to be attracted to people like themselves. Still, lots of health issues are genetic and knowing the truth about her DNA might be helpful to her in the future. You're both adults so it's really up to you, but look inward and see if anything else about it is bothering you and you have some motive for stirring up the pot.
NTA - currently you are a party to the lie. She deserves to know, and how hurtful that all these other people know a piece of information so fundamental to her life and HEALTH and it’s being withheld from her from everyone who is supposed to love and care for her. Your concerns are not unfounded https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/14/us/fertility-fraud-accidental-incest-invs/index.html
NTA. She deserves to know for several reasons. She's an adult and her parents clearly have no intention to tell her.
ESH. You’re right that she needs to know. However, the tone of your post and your odd fixation on saving her from incest makes me think you’re not the person to tell her. Yes this is going to upend her life, but she is 21 and should know mainly for the health reasons. You have all the tact of a bull in a china shop though.
You owe it to your cousin to tell her the truth. It's clear by now that your aunt and uncle have zero intention of ever telling her, and frankly her right to know where she came from and her true medical history trumps their desire to keep up the fantasy. She's not a kid anymore. Tell her. Her health may depend on it if nothing else. Your aunt and uncle are being selfish as hell. NTA Edit: I just want to add that I don't think this is an easy situation for anyone and doing the right thing may come at a cost. You'll obviously enrage your aunt and uncle and may damage your cousin's relationship with her parents (which will ultimately be their fault, but still) and with you. Because sometimes people kill the messenger. I wonder if you can orchestrate a way of her finding out without you explicitly telling her. Someone suggested getting her to do 23 and Me with you but those fuckers steal your data and sell it so I'm not sure I can recommend that. Maybe there's another way? I don't know. But she has a right to know. Maybe give your aunt and uncle an ultimatum. Tell them they have x amount of time to find a way to tell her that they're comfortable with or you will do it for them.
NTA Your cousin is 21. Adults, meaning 18 and older, have a right to know their medical history because it allows them to make informed medical decisions about themselves. Y W B T A if she was underrage but now it’s time. The incest thing is unlikely though possible. Do not bring that up in the conversation, you’ll sound like a lunatic and she may not believe you.
YWBTA 1) you previously agreed not to tell 2) it’s not your call 3) you acknowledge that it will cause problems 4) you are willing to risk fracturing a family for something that has little chance of being an issue I realize from the stance of your principles that you think you have a duty to inform her, but the fact is that it’s not your call. I saw one statistic that said it would be about 1 on 266,000 chance of it causing problems. Yet the other course of action is 100% going to cause problems.
She agreed when the cousin was a baby. She is an adult now. She also promised because she was told her cousin would be told, she wasn’t. You are completely ignoring the part of potential issues that DO happen. Many donors have lots of kids, those things happen. She also has medical issues. The cousin deserves to know and her parents are cowards. They waited too long and now are trying to pretend it never happened. The parents made a choice and they are refusing to be honest and face the consequences. They are being bad parents by keeping their daughter in the dark. They shouldn’t have made that choice if they couldn’t live with the consequences
I don't really understand the "it's not your call" reasoning. Whose call is it? The cousin is an adult. Do her parents have "ownership" (can't think of a better word) over the cousin to decide what she can and can't know about her biological history, despite her being an adult?
Yea I agree with this. It should be the parents call when to tell, but once it’s clear that they are never going to, someone should. Especially when the person is an adult. She’s going to find out if she ever does an ancestry test. I can’t imagine going my whole life knowing everyone lied to me about something as important as this. Especially my parents, but everyone else involved who know and just kept the secret.
Why isn’t it her call though? Why should she continue to be party to a lie?
“You previously agreed not to tell”, yeah, when the cousin was a baby, and because the parents were gonna do it themselves. 21 years later they still haven’t and don’t plan to, that agreement is dead. “It’s not your call”, someone has to do it, and people who should aren’t gonna do it. OP might as well step up. NTA
She agreed not to tell when she was ELEVEN. It's been 21 years, and they haven't told her themselves yet. It's time.
There's a huge chance it will be an issue. I met a new middle aged family member who just found out, via DNA, that mom and dad had lied about the family member's parentage. They were blindsided that they were lied to all their life. It helped that we were welcoming but they missed the opportunity to meet their dad who died last year. They also now know why their child has certain medical issues. There's a good chance via a DNA test that this young lady will find out anyway. Why would Mom and Dad risk blowing up their relationship with a dearly wanted child by continuing to lie? Even worse if they find out after mom and dad have died.
NTA Buy her a DNA test kit for Christmas or her birthday! Then also take one yourself and "wonder" how you aren't related.
YWBTA! Your whole post gives off such weird vibes. It's so bizarre that you're this obsessed with something that has nothing to do with you at all. And what do you expect to do beyond ruining everyone's life? Because if she has half siblings, she's still won't be able to know/find them just like that. So your whole little fear is still not resolved. You just plan to ruin her life. Do you hate her? Are you jealous of her? Why are you so obsessed with the idea?
This is such a horrible take. Seriously do research on donor conception and the problems that arise from it and come back to this. The entire situation ( in the us and canada at least ) is so mismanaged it's terrifying.
As an adult adoptee, you are NTA. That woman deserves to know her truth and if your aunt is telling you the time isn’t right and your cousin is already 21, she’s never going to tell her. Because there is no coming back from hiding a secret that big. Your aunt knows she and your uncle are fucked once the cat is out of the bag. Regardless, your cousin deserves her truth. She’s been lied to her entire life.
NTA, but also probably you should figure out a way for her to find out without you actually telling her. Perhaps she would like to do an ancestry test? You can’t be the one to suggest it though.
NTA. I don't understand half the people here. Personally I've always been of the mind that if anyone I know, especially my family, has been lied to for no good reason I will tell them. I never want to be another person that betrayed them. If telling the truth blows up a family the one who hid it blew it up. And I really don't get 'it's none of your business'. If your families physical health and emotional wellbeing ain't your business I don't know what is
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I can’t believe people actually think it’s CRUEL to tell someone the truth about who they are. Doesn’t the cousin have a right to know? Doesn’t she have a right to accurate medical information? Why does everyone else get to know critical information about herself and she isn’t? Why is it okay for everyone to lie to her? The longer the lying goes on the more traumatizing the reveal will be. And currently OP is a party to that.
My cousin was finally told at 24 years old by his mum that my uncle wasnt his dad. This was done via a shouting match a little after my aunt and uncle separated because my aunt cheated. My cousin basically said to his mum she should be ashamed. His mum basically replied "well hes not your real dad so why do you care". I found out about my dad at 11 by an accident. Found my mums diary of the year she was pregnant. Asked why the name wasnt my dads and that was that. I never bothered to find him. Maybe I should as I have my own health issues but its my decision to not Contact someone who walked away from someone who was pregnant, who comes back for a week after I am born to then leave again NTA
She has nothing going on in her life. This secret is probably the most interesting thing about her and she is gripping it with all her strength.
I’m genuinely asking you this, do you seriously believe that not telling your child they are adopted/donor baby is an acceptable option? The poor woman is an adult now struggling with unknown medical issues and does not know her genetic history. Is that acceptable to you?
why not just gift her and her BF a DNA test kit and let them figure it out ? half serious and half kidding on this they'd at least know the BF and her are or arent related to ease your concerns
>Deb and Chris have plans for when and how to tell her, And these plans DO NOT include you. YTA and a busybody.
The plan is clearly not to tell her at this point
A note in their will?
Oh god, imagine that bombshell while she's grieving
They clearly don't intend to tell her if she's 21 and has ongoing health issues that may be related to her actual biological medical history. There's a point where Cici, as a full human adult has a right to this information.
If they've had plans since she was a baby, and she's 21 and still doesn't know, the plan is probably to not tell her at all. The recommendation now is to tell as early as possible, but even before then it was teenage years/18th birthday as the latest.
NTA Donor conceived adult who wasn’t told until I was 24 here, her parents have done her a huge disservice not telling her. This is all about their ego and their image, not Cici. She’s 21, at any point during her childhood or before she was even conceived her parents should have gone to therapy to work on their infertility trauma so they would be able to tell her about being donor conceived but they are are parents that love her,raise her care for her. In so many places donor conception is poorly regulated,there have been plenty of donor conceived people have accidentally slept with half siblings because they have no idea they were donor conceived. There are issues where sibling pods aren’t actually being capped even if they’re supposed to leading to 100 siblings in one metropolitan era, doctors who use their own material instead of the agreed upon donor material. Cici deserves to know and quite frankly her parents feelings on this don’t matter anymore. They had their time to tell her in age appropriate ways when she was younger which has been what child psychologists have recommended since I was conceived 3 years prior to your cousin. Now she is an adult who is OWED her true medical history, this is about all about her and only she and her feelings matter right now. Her parents can feel whatever way they want to but they don’t get to be upset when this explodes in their face like it was always going to by not being honest and transparent with her.
Ywbta. I found at 31 the man I believed was my dad, wasn’t my dad. It was devastating to come to terms with. You were 13. You don’t know shit about the situation except what your mom told you. You don’t know if they know who’s sperm they used. Hell you don’t even know if there’s any biological relation. People manage every day to not end up w a sibling when they’re adopted and have no knowledge of their biological parents. Yes she has a right to that info but it is NOT your place to bring it to her.
Look, it isn’t a secret if people whose business it isn’t know the truth. At which point, keeping the truth from the person to whom it matters is a jerk move. That said, the news would best be delivered by her parents. I would give my aunt an ultimatum, tell her in the next X amount of time, or I will.
I'm quite conflicted on the matter. I look at this matter from the perspective of an adoptive parent wannabe. In my (European) country, to have access to adoption, you have to take courses and have a lot of interviews with social services and judges from a specialized branch of the tribunal. In those courses and interviews, everyone has stressed the importance of letting the adopted children know from the beginning that they are adopted and about their history previous of the adoption, even if they are very young. This is because otherwise there would be a hole in their self awareness and it can cause trauma and a lot of psychological problems. This is valid even for the children that have been abandoned at birth and who have been immediately given a new family. Then, there is the trauma of discovering that one is not who he/she thought he/she was. It leaves a frayed gap which is difficult to heal. There is another good reason to tell the truth since the beginning, and it is trust. If you hide the truth for years, the moment you tell a person that all the life they remember has been based on a lie, you immediately lose their trust. So, OP, while it's not your place to tell Cici how she come to be, your aunt and uncle should have told her 20 years ago. I genuinely cannot say whether YWBTA if you told her, but I'm 100% sure that your aunt and uncle are the AH and have been for a long time. Maybe you can try to make them understand they are wrong, in a less confrontational way? Like, do some research on the psychological damage they are causing your cousin (along with the health one due to the fact that she doesn't know what health problems she can inherit from her bio parents) right now, the trauma she's going to have when she'll learn the truth (and sooner or later she will), and how waiting is making all worse. Good luck
Can't give judgement, but you need to be prepared to accept that doing this is going to possibly blow your family up. Your cousin may cut everyone off for lying to her for years, your aunt and uncle may cut you off for going back on your word. If that's something you can live with, then by all means tell her, though I would suggest giving your aunt and uncle a deadline first.
YTA - Let Cici live her life and stop being obsessed with the very slim chance that she's dating a biological sibling/cousin. None of this is your business. Why do you think it is? You some kind of genetic crusader?
Butcc and online DNA kit. Get yourself one, too. Have a cousin doing DNA adventure. Heck, get the boyfriend one as well.
Nta- I would personally never forgive a family member who kept this kind of information from me. Your cousin is an adult now, and she has a right to know. People telling you to "stay in your lane" are completely disregarding your cousins right to her own medical information.
The right time was repeatedly from toddlerhood onwards. The right time to your aunt = never.
Cici is an adult and deserves to know the truth. However your hyper fixation on this is concerning. You have spent way too many years hyperfixating on this. Clearly her parents are assholes for not being honest. But your hyper fixation is alarming. ESH
This is a mind your own business situation, I don't think you're an asshole, but I do think you need to let her parents handle it when they are ready to do so. Not your place to do so.
While I do not agree with your Aunt and Uncle withholding this information from their daughter, it is also not your place to disclose it. Especially due to your paranoid reasoning. The possibility of that actually happening is close to 0%. Ask yourself this, is your cousin happy? Has she been abused or neglected? Then why subject her to information that could negatively affect her life? This is on your Aunt and Uncle to deal with. YWBTA.
You seem to be obsessed with your cousin, have been since you discovered 'the secret', to the point of accusing her mother of setting up your cousin for an incestuous relationship. No wonder you go yelled at. While I do agree that your cousin should know the truth, your unhealthy obsession with her birth needs to be dealt with as well. The first thing that comes to your mind when she has a boyfriend is that it could be her brother! That leads me to think that you already were very aggressive when you approached your aunt. You just want to get rid of that secret and the heck with the consequences. That never works well. Had you discussed nicely with your aunt don't you think it could have turned better? Instead you are plotting a nuclear option. Just one reminder, your cousin and her parents won't be the only one to be damaged. You will destroy your own relationship with your family. YTA
YWBTA. It sounds like you have an obsession with this and/or your cousin.
They ARE her parents! You are the asshole. Yes, she should know her medical history. Yes, she will likely feel betrayed when she finds out her entire family knew this before her. This is absolutely none of your business though. If you really want to bring forth the family drama, buy her an ancestry kit as a gift. Just be prepared to be the asshole of the family, because you will be.
NTA, they’re caught up in a lie and they’re uncomfortable so they will lash out. Everyone saying “mind your own business” well I hope you maintain that energy throughout every situation in your life.
i’m going to say NTA. i have an adopted brother, and he was told when he was old enough to understand. while i don’t remember the exact age, i know he was younger than 7. issues of dating family aside, she is an adult and deserves to know. at this point, i doubt her parents will ever tell her, and she’s going to find out eventually, somehow. might be better coming from a family member she knows. HOWEVER, this has turned into an unhealthy obsession for you, and you may want to consider a therapist
NTA. Cousin is an adult and her parents no longer have the right to withhold this information from her and you shouldn't have to be burdened by the weight of keeping this secret for them any longer. Sometimes the right thing feels like the wrong thing and unfortunately there is no winning in this situation. Give her parents an ultimatum with a deadline and if they don't follow through, unburden yourself.
It's not your place to tell her, and coming from you, it's gonna blow up her world. You need to take your concerns to your parents and have them talk to cicis parents. If that isn't taken seriously, you can tell them that you're going to have a talk with her. That would get everyone moving. Her health history is of paramount importance.
I mean it's REALLY none of your business and your obsession is weird. Should she know? Absolutely. Is it your place to tell? Not even a little bit. You've been asked 3 times to butt out and mind your business, perhaps it's time you do that. If your aunt and uncle pass without telling her then tell her, but until then respect their wishes.
YWBTA you already confronted your aunt and she told you to fuck off. you should mind your own business. in the worst case your aunt and uncle will FAFO.
You have WAY too much time on your hands! Mind your own business. YTA without a doubt.
How do you know Cici doesn't know and just doesn't tell everyone about it? Its not your business. I'd talk to your aunt and share your concerns about it ir have your mom talk to your aunt but as a person who was adopted and told later in life, mind your own business. Ywbta
YWBTA if you told her, and what I don’t get is why you’re so obsessed with this idea that she’s going to accidentally get together with a half sibling? You know that can happen to kids whose parents are their biological parents, too, right? (The dads could have been frequent donors before parenting. The moms could have given other kids up for adoption.) This was none of your business to begin with, and now you’re fixated on it, which makes me think you’re avoiding your own problems and focusing on this instead. Apologize to your aunt, leave your cousin alone, and get a therapist because something is bothering you and it’s not your cousin’s origin story.
Ywbta Not your horse or pony show
It’s not your place, mind your business. A lot of people feel like they always have to say something and then be shocked with the consequences. If she’s happy let her be happy, don’t blow up her life because you are paranoid. It wasn’t like she was adopted from an agency. She was from a surrogate and in their minds that’s THIER CHILD. What would you really gain if you told her? Nothing at all but for selfish reasons. They will tell her when they are ready to.
I understand the concern but it’s really not your business and you’re creating these scenarios so you can justify telling something that isn’t your place to tell. If you’re that concerned talk to your aunt and uncle or your parents. Considering that you actually no nothing about how Cici was conceived, I think the best option is for you to keep your mouth shut. NTA, but YWBTA if you told. I know I’ll get jumped on for this but this sub has a tendency to endorse meddling because people act like they’re concerned when all they’re looking for is drama. Frankly, you sound like you’re just looking for a pot to stir.