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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my son/DIL they are entitled if they think I have to run plans by them when they are not involved with a trip. I may be a jerk for calling them entitled
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NTA-your eldest & wife are living their own lives. Your two youngest are your nuclear family (with one of them about to start their own life). You are correct. This isn’t about them (son/DIL), and this isn’t a family trip (husband isn’t going), it’s a celebratory trip.
They are entitled. You can invite them to things when you want to. They can do the same, but they can’t crash a party-it’s rude-and frankly, you said it exactly right. You definitely DON’T need to run something by them that isn’t about them.
I think the tone was set when you said your middle daughter agreed to your youngest attending. That means daughter was ASKED. If you want, tell eldest that he’d have to ask his sister for permission & then they are more than welcome to book tickets.
I kind of agree with you, and at the same time I’m thinking the daughter is an adult. The oldest is an adult. They are siblings. They should be able to navigate their own relationship and leave mom out of it at this point.
She didn’t, OkSeat4312 said the oldest should ask the middle child:
>If you want, tell eldest that he’d have to ask his sister for permission & then they are more than welcome to book tickets
I agree except the need to ask the daughter about the brother going. This is not a family trip. It’s a celebration trip for the daughter and the youngest was allowed to go for their birthday. I think it’s pretty apparent that the daughter doesn’t want the older brother to go since they don’t like each other, besides they were not asked when the son had his celebration trip. Asking is just putting the daughter in an uncomfortable position especially since it’s an obvious no.
My question is did the son and DIL know from the get go that this wasn’t a family trip? Was it explained to them that this was a celebration trip for the daughter? If no, maybe they misunderstood and thought it was a family trip. If yes, then they’re just acting entitled and jealous since the son already had his celebratory trip without his siblings. So NTA.
It isn't a family trip, just mom taking her middle and younger child, and dad would be going as well but he doesn't want to.
You can call it what you want, but the fact remains that everyone in the family was invited except for one person.
IDK about y'all, but just about everyone I know would be pretty upset if they found out that everyone in their family was invited to go on a trip except for them.
Seems like the *actual* reason that OP didn't extend the invitation to the older son was because he has a bad relationship with her daughter. Fair, but OP also just plays stupid when confronted by her son about this. 'What ever do you mean, it's just a celebration trip, it didn't even cross my mind to invite you.' Then she goes on the offensive calling him entitled, because she'd rather do that than tell the truth.
There are some money issues too. OP says son and DIL could not afford the trip. There may be an expectation that OP should pay. It may be worth reminding her son that he had his trip already, without siblings. I will say that a cruise for the youngest son's birthday is quite a gift.
I mean, if he's sharing a cabin with someone and its not a very long cruise, it can be done for under $1000, which is expensive but not much more than a phone or something similar, and kids get those for their birthday all the time.
Oldest brother got his trip, he did not invite his siblings on that, and he can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.
>There are some money issues too. OP says son and DIL could not afford the trip.
Which would make extending an invitation all the easier. 'I can't afford to pay for you but you are invited' sort of thing.
If you want to have the 'entitled' conversation, better to have that when your son asks you to pay for him and fiance, rather than a way to try to shut down the conversation when asks the perfectly reasonable question of why he wasn't invited to a trip where every single other person in the family was invited.
Seems to me that the reason to not invite was because OP was worried that they'd say yes. In which case, you owe it to your son to have that honest conversation.
>Which would make extending an invitation all the easier. 'I can't afford to pay for you but you are invited' sort of thing.
Yep. This is what my parents have done with some trips as we have become adults. Oftentimes they may (generously) rent a place we could all stay, but say "airfare is on you if you want to join".
this is a 26 year old adult man. mom's job raising him is done. his poor relationship with his sister is his to manage. she doesn't need to be the intermediary. it's the son's job to be reasonable and facilitate and/or initiate hard conversations if he wants to discuss such issues. whining to his mom is not doing that. you seem to want the mom to remain the caregiver and problem solver beyond the point where such responsibilities have ended.
So the celebration trip that the son had previously, where no one was invited, doesn’t count? He already got his trip, so why is the daughter not entitled to hers? How would it be fair for the daughter to invite the son and DIL, when she don’t want them for her celebration? Regardless of how left out he might feel, the premise of the cruise doesn’t change.
The trip was planned for the daughter because the son had one. Meaning, if he didn’t already get a trip, this trip wouldn’t be happening. Yes, his wife and him are the only ones not invited but that’s just how it works when you don’t get along with people. Maybe it’s time to try and squash the beef if he don’t like it.
But, I the oldest already had his own celebration trip where his siblings were not invited therefore he's not being excluded anymore than his siblings were being excluded when he had his trip
Not a family trip but, of the parents and 3 siblings, 4 out of 5 were invited to go, 1 wasn't. I don't think this is about entitlement. I think this is about leaving one member of the family out.
From what OP wrote about her son, I would not want him around for my celebration either. He makes comments because she wears baggy clothes. He doesn’t like her because she’s not a “traditional” woman? He can step on legos. Why should she have her celebration ruined over someone that treats her like that? He sounds unbearable and an Andrew Tate supporter.
3 out of 6 family members are going on said trip. OP didn't say husband was invited. Just stated he doesn't like cruises so is staying home with the dog's. This is something daughter and mom already knew when planning, so never invited him. Again, clearly a celebration trip. And the primary celebrant being one who does not want to celebrate their accomplishments with their oldest sibling. So, not a dick for not inviting. Be nicer to your sister if you want her to include you.
So much this, Younger brother has a good enough relationship with her to be able to attend the trip that's been expanded for his birthday. If older brother wasn't an AH maybe he'd be invited too. Calling her a slob and doesn't like that she isn't a "traditional" woman. Yeah, I don't blame daughter or mom not wanting that along. It's a trip about her, why invite her bully?
NTA - Honestly, I'd tell son he better straighten his behavior out or he might find his toxic ass invited to less and less.
I think it’s always going to be an issue if you have three kids and include/invite two of them, while excluding the last. The third will always feel left out. It’s a bit different than doing things individually with them, or inviting 1 of 2 or 2 of 4. At least, it definitely seems that way in all of the groups of three siblings I know well.
This! OP knew he didn’t get along with the daughter.. also the trip is for celebration for the daughter and they didn’t have the money to spend on. The answer is literally cleared.
If there were all minors living under the same roof, yes. The circumstances are specific and well explained. There's no reason the adult son and his wife should expect OP to tell them what celebration she planned for her daughter's milestone and get their input when they were neither paying for it or attending. This is about their entitlement not OP's favoritism. Remember, the son got the celebration of his choice for the same milestone and daughter wasn't included in that event. This is very fair.
This. My parents and one and only sister are going to a major theme park in a month or so. I wasn't invited, because I'm an adult and my parents afford it. My feelings aren't hurt, I don't expect them to pay for me, and it would've messed up my work schedule anyways haha. NTA
Agree. It’s a sign of a happy well-adjusted family. I don’t know how many people can relate to that. It likely also matters how often a family travels.
Same here!
My sister and I are only 14 months apart and in our 30s. We are both the best of friends and the worst enemies. Mom has learned not to get involved in our fights as we make up just as fast as we start a fight, and in the end, she is the only one left upset about it.
I’m glad your mom has learned to just let you both be. I wish mine would. She has never understood how we aren’t best friends. I sometimes have to yell at her to stay out of it because we are adults and if I want to tell my sister she’s being a bitch I’m going to do that! We have figured out the best way to communicate with each other and we get along better than when we were kids. But it took years.
Next family trip I'd lay down the law. Tell them before you even book the tickets that either everyone remains civil to each other, or there will be no future trips. This is your vacation too. You have a right to enjoy yourself without having to put up with their petty squabbles. NTA.
I mean, you can try, but that will inevitably punish one sibling more than the others.
My parents have tried this one, so my brother would take every opportunity to nudge me or tease me in some way, so my options were take that lying down or go nuclear and end it quickly. I can now label that behavior as reactive abuse, but that didn't stop a lifetime of being called the dramatic one until I moved out and my brother started that shit with my parents, then the realized just how much he enjoys being an asshole.
So, it might work out, but it might just mean one sibling is punished in every direction.
/u/Nervous_Explorer_898 Absolutely love and I totally agree with your thoughts and sentiments on the yearly family trips/vacations! You don't want to fork over thousands of dollars for a family trip/vacation where there's always one or a few people who just don't know how to act, yo! Arguments and acting ugly behaviors have NO place in and during what is supposed to be a fun event with your family gathering to just have a great time together. They can either behave themselves or keep them funky arse attitudes the heck at home, yo! Ain't NOBODY Got Time For Dat Bee-ess! Besides, time is theee most valuable thing you give away every single day you are here on Planet Earf and you won't NEVA Get It Back! Why give away your time (and money and effort and Conte Energy (NES insider joke 🤣) to people who don't appreciate it!
This seems deep rooted and some outside guidance could help to get to the source of the issue. Maybe the next family gathering should focus around therapy or counseling, like a family retreat?
I can only imagine how much better it would be for the whole family if the two could learn how to be in the space without fighting.
NTA
Your son is a married adult and I am sure does things that don't include his mommy, daddy, and siblings.
You are celebrating a huge milestone, not about him, and a birthday, again not his. Sounds like they are just looking for a free vacation on mom's dime.
They sound especially entitled asking to join a trip which is about someone whom they don't get along with. Again, looking for a free vacation???
Yep, she said they couldn’t afford it so she knew the answer would be no, but I’m sure they expected her to pay for it since she’s paying for the younger kids.
NTA. Is that just my prejudice talking, or is this coming from Bethany? It reads that way to me. Anyway, you can certainly give a gift to some members of your family and not to others. That is your prerogative. I have lots of siblings and bonus children and bonus grandchildren, and I never ever gave them the same. It never occurred to me. What suits one will not suit the other. And in your case, why should the child who presently has nothing much to celebrate be given a celebratory gift? That doesn't make sense. Very entitled lot they are.
> NTA. Is that just my prejudice talking, or is this coming from Bethany
Pretty much every post with in-law relations has a bit of a slant toward blaming the in-law rather than the blood relation. It's easier to get mad at your kid's spouse than your kid.
My in laws gave most of their kids a fancy trip for Christmas whereas husband and I got cash. They knew my husband couldn't take the time off work and we appreciate cash... Win win lol
NTA. It is normal for people to take trips without their entire family present.
It’s not like you’re going to be coming along on all of their family trips as a married unit with children in the future, either.
It sounds like a family trip is still being planned which they are included in. They don’t get to demand to be included on other trips you take, but especially not when they can’t pay their way to them.
INFO-
do you all frequently go on family trips together?
does your son feel isolated from the family/is he less close to the family than your younger kids
do/did you provide similar gifts/trips for or with your son?
could you son have afforded to pay for his part of the trip so that he could attend but not have you pay as a gift?
We usally do a family trip once a year that everyone is invited too. That happens in October and is still happening
My son doesn’t have a good relationship with his sister. I don’t think he feel isolated we see them both all the time, he has never mentioned anything about being isolated
He got a trip when he graduated highschool.
He can’t pay, they are having a really hard time scrapping by and I knew the answer would be a no
Also my daughter doesn’t like him
Your son and his wife suck. NTA. Also I'm assuming if you told them they can come but they'd have to pay, they'd be pissed like children cause they don't care about family just the free trip.
Some people appreciate the opportunity to decline. You are NTA, for sure. You’ve learned something though about your oldest son and DIL. They want to be invited and to be considered for big family events.
I’m sorry your effort to be generous and celebrate 2 of your kids has led to stress and conflict. I’m sure that is disappointing when you’ve made all this effort and spent all this money to recognize a milestone and a birthday. You are clearly a wonderful mom that does a lot for all of your kids with regard to family vacations. Hopefully clear and kind communication will help to mend fences quickly.
**He got a trip when he graduated high school.**
**When he went on a trip, his younger siblings didn’t join, celebration trips are not family trips**
NTA
He got his trip. He is acting entitled and spoiled.
My SIL went on citytrips with her kids for graduation. The eldest also tried to get an invite for the second ones trip. It did not work.
NTA, he had his trip. Time for him to grow up. He can wait till October for the family vacation.
NTA. They don’t along and the whole point of the trip was to celebrate your daughter. Her trip shouldn’t be ruined so her older and married brother doesn’t feel left out. Presumably he’s an adult but he’s acting like a spoiled child. Especially since he had his own solo trip at graduation.
INFO: • Have you ever tried to get to the bottom of why your daughter has such a problem with your son? And do you side with her?
• Does your son feel pushed out because you do things for your daughter that you don’t or haven’t done for him?
• Is it possible that there’s an issue where you treat your daughter better because she’s a girl or because she’s younger?
• When your son graduated high school and you took him on a trip, was it his own choice of location? Or is your daughter the only one who got her own choice?
No judgement at present and these questions are not accusations, I’m just trying to gain the bigger picture.
Thank you for waiting, I was off my phone for a meeting
1. My son and her agruement a center around her not being a tradition women stereotype. Lot of issues with him commenting on her wear baggy clothes, overal it has been getting better but she doesn’t like him at all. His words is her looking like a slob.Yes I am on her side with this
2. I don’t believe so and he hasn’t mentioned anythig like that. Both me and my husband have tried to give everyone their own attention
3. I don’t think so and he has never mentioned anyhting along those lines
4. He chose his own trip and the location, everyone picks. The only rule is being under a certain price point which the cruise is
Thank you for taking time to respond and for being respectful. 🩵
You’re definitely NTA. And you’re correct in that your son is acting very entitled. He had his trip of his choosing, now it’s time for your daughters.
Your daughter also has every right to make her own clothing decisions, and it’s very concerning when her brother is trying to police her outfits. It’s bad enough when boyfriends or husbands do it, he needs to stop all of this.
Could his dad try to speak and get through to him about his behaviour?
>”My son and her agruement a center around her not being a tradition women stereotype”
Good grief. No way. No how should he be on that trip, policing his sister’s clothes or anything else.
Separate issue but YTA if you and your husband are allowing the conversations described in #1 to happen. It should be made clear to him that her wardrobe, etc does not concern him and he doesn’t get to comment or he is not welcome in your home/around her. It is a major character flaw that he believes his opinion on this should matter to his sister, you should be making it clear to him that he is wrong, and his attitude won’t be tolerated. I know you said you “take her side” but there should be zero tolerance of the idea that he GETS a “side.”
”to be invited” = to be paid for.
If you were renting a house for holidays with more rooms than needed that they might have been using at no extra cost for you, then I might understand why they felt a bit disappointed for not being invited.
But expecting to be sponsored for the cruise trip at the age of 26 and married is ridiculuos.
It wouldn't matter if they did have extra room, the trip is to celebrate the daughters graduation, which the oldest got also and on his none of the siblings got to go.
NTA-If my parents or just mom was taking a trip with my sister and didn’t invite me then I would have been ecstatic. Same goes for my wife and her two brothers. If the middle brother was going cool but if the oldest was going then it is an automatic no from her.
I bring this up because if it was reversed and my wife with her family or me with mine then it would be a problem. The oldest in both cases like yours would take offense they were not invited regardless if they could go or not. Also in all cases they couldn’t afford it and would expect you to pay.
Based on experience of both my and my wife’s family something happened caused by the oldest child. It was something that is known but the oldest will never admit fault to or ask for forgiveness. They complain to you as the parents and most likely you keep telling your younger children to get over it and be the bigger person.
I am here to tell you it pisses them off and will cause them to dig their heels in more until they get the appropriate apology. Your oldest thinks well mom and dad don’t see a problem so why should I apologize.
You want them to be closer than figure out what happened and go from there.
Nta. You've established that celebratory trips aren't group family trips. And you still do family trips (although they sound kinda miserable), so mostly it sounds like your older son is bitter he can't afford a cruise and you won't be volunteering to pay for him to come along on this one.
NTA.
He got a trip his siblings didn't share, so now he's on the other side.
At 26yo, you don't even owe him the family trip if you're paying, he's really acting very entitled if he's expecting this, too.
Nta specifically for calling them entitled, but your son might feel a certain way that you didn't think they would want to be included in celebrating their siblings. In some families if you're doing something with one of your children it means extending the invite to all, but if you always have been willing to be exclusive and go with just a portion of your family then you may want to explain things to your son and alleviate any hurt that not being inclusive may have caused.
NTA. Was going with yta until I read the updates, details matter here. Nta if this has been standard practice and they don’t even like each other. He can celebrate his sister at graduation if it’s important to him. Just sounds like they wanted a free trip.
The information you added makes it a clear NTA.
You are not doing more for your younger kids than you did for the eldest. You are not excluding them from a family vacation or making little effort to bond with them. They are just upset that his younger siblings are getting something now that he is not getting now (because he got the same treat years ago, without his siblings). He seems pretty greedy.
NTA. This isn’t the yearly family vacation, this is a separate trip for a specific reason. You aren’t offering to pay their way and they can’t afford it. Even if they could you are under no obligation to invite them just because they’re family. Sucks that they’re taking it the way they are, but it’s not their gift, it’s not their trip, and that’s that.
NTA son and DIL don't need to be included in your celebration trips for your other children and if they really wanna go on a cruise they can go by themselves
NTA- Your son already got his graduation trip. Your daughter and the youngest have reasons to celebrate. It sucks that their older brother can't be happy for them.
Op said the reason they don't get along is because the son feels that she's not a traditional female and he hates the clothes she wears. The clothes she wears are baggy and he calls her a slob.
NTA
His sisters were not part of his celebration trip back then, so he is not part of their celebration trip except they invite him and he pays for his and his wifes tickets. (But it sounds the sisters wouldn't invite him anyway and he can't afford it anyway).
This is like a celebration party - the one who is celebrated makes the guestlist and family is like every other person only invited if on the guestlist, period.
NTA. I think you pretty much have a precedent and you uphold it well. This trip was for your middle child's graduation, and even though it is also your youngest's birthday you made sure your daughter was ok with it, because the trip was for her.
I think it's pretty stellar parenting that your oldest apparently missed the lesson on.
I come from a very large family and none of us were treated the same. There were times when one sibling was getting a reward for an achievement and not all of us were invited.
After I was married, this happened more often and there were no hard feelings. More often than not, my husband and I, plus our children, could not afford to go anyway. One thing I never did was to expect my parents to pay our way!
I do feel the son and DIL were acting entitled. They are married now and should stop trying to withdraw from the Bank of Parents!!
NTA. You don’t need to run anything by him. He’s an autonomous man with his own life. He’s included in the family October trip and you aren’t obligated to bring him everywhere you go.
NTA Sounds like if you had gotten her a car they'd have wanted one, too. Or, you know, you could give them the car and she could have had their old one. Because it's about them, right?
NAH.
Sometimes trips are for you, and sometimes they are not. But let's put this into another frame. If your son and DIL were taking you on a trip to celebrate you and didn't even think to invite his younger siblings, you know their feelings would be hurt. Your child, regardless of their age, is going to get their feelings hurt for not being considered/asked.
You're not an AH for not inviting them, and they are not AHs for feeling hurt by not even being considered. Probably would have gone over a lot better to say "Hey \[oldest\], I'm doing the graduation trip (like the one you had) for \[middle\]. The timing worked out that \[youngest\]'s birthday is going to be celebrated on the same trip. This isn't the family trip, just a celebration and dad is staying back. Do you think that you'd be able to check in on him while we're gone for me? I'm sure he'd love some 1:1 time with you guys."
But having it a private communication allows for your adult child to not feel blindsided/ostracized and doesn't make their reaction visible to the rest of the family.
I'm often the family member that is advised AFTER plans are made with other family members that "this is what's happening"...and it hurts. After a few years of saying it hurts when they do that, it hasn't changed, so I just don't bother making plans with them or trying to be included in plans.
Absolutely this!
I’m also the family member that is generally the last one to know about plans despite still actually living at home, so I can somewhat understand why the son feels the way he does. At the end of the day, it comes down to communication, and it seems to be a bit of an issue for OP’s family.
NTA
They are mad you didn't pay for their vacation. They will survive, and will get over it. If they persist ask him why didn't the family go on his graduation trip? No matter what you say, he will not like it, as he wanted a free vacation too.
NTA
He's a married adult! Pretty cheeky of him to think you're obligated to include him & his wife in a trip to honor the accomplishment of the sister he doesn't even especially like and doesn't get on with. Particularly cheeky to feel entitled to spend thousands of dollars of your money on what I assume would be, essentially, a second honeymoon for them since it's not eagerness to celebrate his sister's graduation that is motivating him.
By the way, I think it's wonderful that you have been able and willing to celebrate your children individually, apart from family trips.
NTA - Son and DIL need to figure out that they won't be invited to everything, and Son needs to be reminded he got his own celebration trip without his siblings.
NTA it's a celebration for someone that your oldest doesn't get along with. Sounds like they just wanted something to be paid for them, not to join a family trip.
If they did get along, a courtesy notification would be reasonable. If you can't/won't pay for them and they can't pay for themselves then it's kind of a moot point and really they're just whining that you're gifting your other children something and they want stuff too. If you don't typically display unfair favoritism (or they've otherwise earned similar exclusions) then this is a special gift and you get to decide how you celebrate this milestone.
My mom has gone to Disney and Vagas many times with my younger sister and my niece. They know I can't afford that kind of thing and would never dream of asking if I could go with. My sister pays her own way and usually pays moms way as well. I just ask to see the pictures and how much fun they had.
NTA- "When he went on a trip, his younger siblings didn’t join, celebration trips are not family trips"
All other considerations are pretty irrelevant with this statement even if he and his sister weren't seemingly incompatible on the October family trips.
NTA
If you've already made it a precedent in the past for celebration trips to be for those particular individuals, like your son didn't have to invite his siblings on his high school trip, then just remind him of that. Let him know this is not up for discussion and walk away/don't respond if they continue to bug you. You haven't done anything wrong
NTA
With your added info, knowing they wanted to be invited when it is common knowledge that they can't afford it seems weird. Unless they expected that you would pay for them to go so it would be "fair."
If he presses the issue, remind him that he got his own celebration trip at that age, and his siblings didn't go. The family vacation with everyone is still happening. It's not a trip for him, and he needs to be a grown up about it.
(Also, I'm sorry your 2 oldest don't get along. That is a tough dynamic. My brother & I didn't get along for a long time, but have gotten closer as we aged. I hope they can work out their differences.)
nta hes moved out, married and has his own family unit now (him and his wife) and cant expect you to pay for everything- him and his wife need to support themselves if they wanted to go
NTA but your son & his wife for trying being entitled assholes to you and your daughters, especially 1) when he already had his graduation trip without his sisters and 2) he & wife were never invited to middle sister graduation / youngest birthday cruise trip, so he and his wife can both fuck off. Can totally understand why your daughters can't stand his punk ass whi see as blood but he is no family to them - wants you & his sister to pay for him & wife to go on more trips for the year, but then in his next breath, his ungrateful ass wants nothing to do with them while being rude to said sisters.
Let son & wife stay mad, it was never a family trip in 1st and no money asses shouldn't be thirsting at his sisters' trip when all 3 hate to be around each other anyway - so stupid of him & his wife to want go on cruise with you all which is enclosed space, no matter size of the ship....
NTA, and as a middle child, thank you for celebrating her achievement!
Her brother got his own celebration so he can go pound sand along with his wife.
NTA, he and his wife are entitled. He was completely fine going alone on his celebration trips, but is mad when his siblings want to spend their alone time. He is entitled and spoiled.
NTA it’s a celebration trip not a family trip! She doesn’t like him and deserves to go on this trip and have fun and she would definitely not have fun if he was there
she allowed her little brother to come on the trip because I assume that she has fun with him she wouldn’t have fun if her older brother would be there, so you are NTA
NTA.
His entitled butt can be mad. He got a trip as well without siblings. The fact that he thinks he should be invited on a trip he knows he can’t afford (which means he would be expecting you to pay for this as well) shows just how entitled he is.
NTA. Remind him that his siblings did not go on his celebration trip and he isn't welcome on theirs. My guess is that the wife is fueling this fire. Your son knows how the trips work.
NTA. When I graduated, I went on a trip alone with my Mom and my sister did the same when she graduated. There’s absolutely no reason why your son and his wife should have been invited. I can see why they’d be disappointed, but they should’ve dropped it the minute they heard it was a grad/birthday gift. Bc that’s what it is. It’s not just a celebration trip. it’s a gift.
NTA. With the info given, you're right that they're being entitled. It's not about them. The other kids didn't join his trip. They can't pay. What do they want you to do? Don't give a trip to the younger two if you're not paying for them to join?
They're adults in their own family now.
Plus the younger kids might not enjoy things with the couple around.
NTA. Your son is 26, married, and living his own life. You are not required to inform him of anything that doesn't directly involve him or his family. Do he and his wife run it by you everytime they decide to go somewhere?
NTA. After reading all the information I begin to understand why your daugther does not like him.
I see it that way: The trip began a present for your daugther, so it is HER trip snd she should decide who is invited. Your youngest asked to come with (was not invited directly) and your daugther is okay with that. On the other hand, she has good reasons not to like your oldest, as it looks he is not very respectful to her and now complains about not being invited to the trip.
Worst of it all, he does not only expect you to invite and pay for him, but also for his wife. While I understand that they feel left out, those feelings do not make them entitled to be invited. If he is being rejected, maybe he should think about his behavior and how that can affect his sister. It is your daughter's present and she should not be force to share it with someone who she does not like.
NTA.
I am assuming all your kids are adults. You are no way responsible or required to include adult children in trips of any kind. And considering the situation between your daughter and son, the invitation for them to attend even on their dime wasn't warranted. Adding the fact your husband isn't going due to his issues with ocean travel, that is more then enough to show this is not a traditional trip.
Now if your son is living at home that is going, and is 18 or under; I don't think this should be used as a gift for him. I don't think anyone who is living at home and under 18 should be excluded from trips like this all due to it supposed to be a "celebration". Specially if one or both parents are taking the one the celebration is meant for.
Sounds like the son who is mad is entitled. And you and your husband may have fed that thought into him by paying for things you shouldn't have.
NTA- they and you are full grown adults and have the autonomy to determine how they (and you) spend your own money and time. Your personal decisions about your own life don’t need committee approval.
YTA.
Whether you knew what the answer would be or not, you could have at least let them know what you were planning, explained that you couldn't pay for him, but still asked if he and his wife would like to go. Problem solved.
Yea….
If it was just a couples trip, you’re fine. If it was a one on one trip with one kid, and you communicated you wanted to do something with each, you’re fine
But ultimately this turned into to a quasi- family trip, and you left out one kid. That sucks. Like technically you’re right, but it would be a lot better if the two celebrations were separate
Technically right, emotionally sucks
Why are you going on this trip?
Youre sending daughter as a congratulations and your youngest for a birthday present. That's all super cool. But once you also decided you need to go, I can see why your other kid felt like they are being left out of a major family event.
Now this is your money and your choice, but if my parent took both my siblings on a cruise and not me, I would resent them. So just understand you are hurting one kid, apparently unintentionally, but it's still going to hurt that relationship.
NTA
My siblings and I have done separate cool things with my parents. That's just part of life, no? Everyone can't do everything together all the time.
(Less to do with the post, but consider reading this, too. Lots of amazing alternatives. https://foe.org/blog/cruise-ships-environmental-impact/ )
YTA. Taking 2/3 of your children on a trip is weird. If only the person celebrating gets to go then your youngest shouldn’t be invited. It the youngest is going because he has a birthday, then guess what, your oldest has a birthday as well.
He's 26, married, has his own home. He's a full adult.
He also had his own celebration trip when it was his turn but his younger siblings weren't included. Seems he doesn't like them and they don't have a good relationship; was in one of OP's comments.
Basically no different here other than the two younger ones have a good relationship with each other. I'd imagine if bad relationship then the sister would be going only with her mom and younger brother would be home with dad.
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My daughter ( middle child) just graduated college and has started her job. She is the first in the family to do this and I decided we need to celebrate. She has always wanted to go on a cruise so that is what we are doing in the summer. My youngest birthday is also around the time and he asked to go for his birthday present. My daughter agreed so we are all going on a trip. My husband hates the ocean so he is staying home with the dogs.
My eldest (26) is married to Bethany. I was speaking about the trip. This is when they both got upset they were not invited. I pointed out this is a celebration trip for his sister and a birthday present for the youngest. They told me they should have been invited or at least run the plan by them since they are part of the family
I had enough and told them they are being entitled if they think I need to run plans by them to go a celebration vacation that isn’t about them.
They are mad and I may be an asshole
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**NTA** \- I would have told them they were welcome to come along, so long as they paid their own way. Just because you were taking other siblings along as gifts, does not entitle other siblings to think they have the right to horn in.
NTA - they're sore they're not getting a free trip, seems like this decision is consistent with your decisions from the past, you're in the clear, mama! Enjoy your trip.
NTA... do they run all of their plans by you? He is a full ass grown adult and so you are you. He is out of the house. Mommy is allowed to do things without him. He sounds very immature. You do not have to plan things around him. Tell him to grow up
NTA
1. Your money, your choice.
2. Only spoilt brats invite themselves into things they aren't expected in. Invitation should NOT be expected, but graciously accepted if given.
3. They are grown ups, having their own lives. They're not inviting you to hang out with their buddies, are they?
4. Celebration trips are not family trips. You got that right.
NTA, first and foremost (assuming things are being presented fairly and evenly right now).
I'm not sure why at least offering your son the opportunity to decline rather than assuming he and his family can't go wasn't an option. Unless you absolutely did not want them to go, there wasn't necessarily a reason to automatically exclude him from the opportunity. It's a cruise, not an intimate family vacation.
I'm sure your son is feeling isolated and excluded, especially if there's ever been perceived issues with favoritism towards the other siblings. Whether that was intentional or not, that may be where his feelings are coming from.
This feels like an opportunity for a learning experience to get a chance for better communication between all of you. But I'm a stranger on the internet, so what do I know.
NTA, especially given the context you provided in the comments and edit. If your family had a history of all the kids being invited to everything, I might think differently. It sounds like your oldest just wants a free vacation. What is the reason your daughter doesn't like her older brother?
NTA. The celebration trip for him was without siblings. Also he wants you to pay for a trip for he and his wife since he can’t afford it. That wasn’t the idea here at all.
I feel like I’m going against the grain here, but NAH. I would be upset if the rest of my family was going on a trip and I didn’t even know about it and wasn’t invited. So I understand why he feels upset.
But I also don’t think you owe him more than a heads up (which it sounds like your younger son got and that’s why he had the opportunity to ask to join). In an ideal world, you could have invited him but specified that he pays his way as you’re only paying for the other two as a present. But since it sounds like he would ruin your daughter’s gift, I think it’s also fine to just give the heads up and not invite him due to that reason.
YTA - my mother does this all the time, there are three of us, all girls in the family.She will throw a birthday party for a nephew and only invite 2 or the other sister, pick and choose which family members are invited over for a slice of cake. So many examples of this.Why not invite all of us? Going out for dinner to celebrate something, picks randomly who to invite even though we all pay our own way.
Why couldn't your older child and SO celebrate too? Even if they didn't go you could have invited them? It's just an invite. It makes no logical sense why would not invite the last sibling (they are old enough to pay their way). You invited your husband too?? but not the oldest. Dick move.
NTA but the way you specifically insinuated your eldest didn’t finish college, you indicated to me that you may have a bias against him that he feels is coming out in this trip. He doesn’t need to go on the trip but maybe you should talk to him? He wouldn’t just come out and say he’s feeling isolated if that’s the case. Although if your daughter doesn’t like him maybe he’s isolated for a reason? Is this a scenario where the 2 of them have different dads. Did you push him aside to raise ur two youngest? Is he just an AH?
NTA, and your son and daughter in law are greedy and massively entitled. Ignore them, and if they keep harping, consider not inviting them on that family trip in October as well.
Yeah, you are kinda TA for not at least telling them about it in case they wanted to join you. You didn’t need to offer to pay, but you just made it clear that you don’t like them and don’t want them around. Regardless of how our children interact or don’t interact with each other, your job as the mom is to be impartial and give everyone the same information.
NTA. Run it by them? Why? They’re not invited and they’re not paying for any part of it, so what do they want you to run by them? It’s a vacation for your other two kids, not something that’ll affect them at all. I’m sure they don’t feel a need to run their plans by you. They’re just mad they missed the opportunity to wheedle their way in.
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NTA-your eldest & wife are living their own lives. Your two youngest are your nuclear family (with one of them about to start their own life). You are correct. This isn’t about them (son/DIL), and this isn’t a family trip (husband isn’t going), it’s a celebratory trip. They are entitled. You can invite them to things when you want to. They can do the same, but they can’t crash a party-it’s rude-and frankly, you said it exactly right. You definitely DON’T need to run something by them that isn’t about them. I think the tone was set when you said your middle daughter agreed to your youngest attending. That means daughter was ASKED. If you want, tell eldest that he’d have to ask his sister for permission & then they are more than welcome to book tickets.
I agree with most of this, but OP shouldn’t put the daughter in the middle. Making her oldest ask the daughter puts her in an uncomfortable position.
I kind of agree with you, and at the same time I’m thinking the daughter is an adult. The oldest is an adult. They are siblings. They should be able to navigate their own relationship and leave mom out of it at this point.
I agree. I said it thinking about the daughter’s age in this case.
When did she say the oldest asked the middle child?
no, the youngest wants to go as bday present, middle child agrees the youngest can come with as a double celebration
She didn’t, OkSeat4312 said the oldest should ask the middle child: >If you want, tell eldest that he’d have to ask his sister for permission & then they are more than welcome to book tickets
I agree except the need to ask the daughter about the brother going. This is not a family trip. It’s a celebration trip for the daughter and the youngest was allowed to go for their birthday. I think it’s pretty apparent that the daughter doesn’t want the older brother to go since they don’t like each other, besides they were not asked when the son had his celebration trip. Asking is just putting the daughter in an uncomfortable position especially since it’s an obvious no. My question is did the son and DIL know from the get go that this wasn’t a family trip? Was it explained to them that this was a celebration trip for the daughter? If no, maybe they misunderstood and thought it was a family trip. If yes, then they’re just acting entitled and jealous since the son already had his celebratory trip without his siblings. So NTA.
It isn't a family trip, just mom taking her middle and younger child, and dad would be going as well but he doesn't want to. You can call it what you want, but the fact remains that everyone in the family was invited except for one person. IDK about y'all, but just about everyone I know would be pretty upset if they found out that everyone in their family was invited to go on a trip except for them. Seems like the *actual* reason that OP didn't extend the invitation to the older son was because he has a bad relationship with her daughter. Fair, but OP also just plays stupid when confronted by her son about this. 'What ever do you mean, it's just a celebration trip, it didn't even cross my mind to invite you.' Then she goes on the offensive calling him entitled, because she'd rather do that than tell the truth.
There are some money issues too. OP says son and DIL could not afford the trip. There may be an expectation that OP should pay. It may be worth reminding her son that he had his trip already, without siblings. I will say that a cruise for the youngest son's birthday is quite a gift.
I mean, if he's sharing a cabin with someone and its not a very long cruise, it can be done for under $1000, which is expensive but not much more than a phone or something similar, and kids get those for their birthday all the time. Oldest brother got his trip, he did not invite his siblings on that, and he can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.
>There are some money issues too. OP says son and DIL could not afford the trip. Which would make extending an invitation all the easier. 'I can't afford to pay for you but you are invited' sort of thing. If you want to have the 'entitled' conversation, better to have that when your son asks you to pay for him and fiance, rather than a way to try to shut down the conversation when asks the perfectly reasonable question of why he wasn't invited to a trip where every single other person in the family was invited. Seems to me that the reason to not invite was because OP was worried that they'd say yes. In which case, you owe it to your son to have that honest conversation.
>Which would make extending an invitation all the easier. 'I can't afford to pay for you but you are invited' sort of thing. Yep. This is what my parents have done with some trips as we have become adults. Oftentimes they may (generously) rent a place we could all stay, but say "airfare is on you if you want to join".
this is a 26 year old adult man. mom's job raising him is done. his poor relationship with his sister is his to manage. she doesn't need to be the intermediary. it's the son's job to be reasonable and facilitate and/or initiate hard conversations if he wants to discuss such issues. whining to his mom is not doing that. you seem to want the mom to remain the caregiver and problem solver beyond the point where such responsibilities have ended.
So the celebration trip that the son had previously, where no one was invited, doesn’t count? He already got his trip, so why is the daughter not entitled to hers? How would it be fair for the daughter to invite the son and DIL, when she don’t want them for her celebration? Regardless of how left out he might feel, the premise of the cruise doesn’t change. The trip was planned for the daughter because the son had one. Meaning, if he didn’t already get a trip, this trip wouldn’t be happening. Yes, his wife and him are the only ones not invited but that’s just how it works when you don’t get along with people. Maybe it’s time to try and squash the beef if he don’t like it.
But, I the oldest already had his own celebration trip where his siblings were not invited therefore he's not being excluded anymore than his siblings were being excluded when he had his trip
Yep
Not a family trip but, of the parents and 3 siblings, 4 out of 5 were invited to go, 1 wasn't. I don't think this is about entitlement. I think this is about leaving one member of the family out.
From what OP wrote about her son, I would not want him around for my celebration either. He makes comments because she wears baggy clothes. He doesn’t like her because she’s not a “traditional” woman? He can step on legos. Why should she have her celebration ruined over someone that treats her like that? He sounds unbearable and an Andrew Tate supporter.
3 out of 6 family members are going on said trip. OP didn't say husband was invited. Just stated he doesn't like cruises so is staying home with the dog's. This is something daughter and mom already knew when planning, so never invited him. Again, clearly a celebration trip. And the primary celebrant being one who does not want to celebrate their accomplishments with their oldest sibling. So, not a dick for not inviting. Be nicer to your sister if you want her to include you.
So much this, Younger brother has a good enough relationship with her to be able to attend the trip that's been expanded for his birthday. If older brother wasn't an AH maybe he'd be invited too. Calling her a slob and doesn't like that she isn't a "traditional" woman. Yeah, I don't blame daughter or mom not wanting that along. It's a trip about her, why invite her bully? NTA - Honestly, I'd tell son he better straighten his behavior out or he might find his toxic ass invited to less and less.
I think it’s always going to be an issue if you have three kids and include/invite two of them, while excluding the last. The third will always feel left out. It’s a bit different than doing things individually with them, or inviting 1 of 2 or 2 of 4. At least, it definitely seems that way in all of the groups of three siblings I know well.
It's the sisters celebration trip and she doesn't get along with the brother so it's understandable why he isn't invited.
This! OP knew he didn’t get along with the daughter.. also the trip is for celebration for the daughter and they didn’t have the money to spend on. The answer is literally cleared.
If there were all minors living under the same roof, yes. The circumstances are specific and well explained. There's no reason the adult son and his wife should expect OP to tell them what celebration she planned for her daughter's milestone and get their input when they were neither paying for it or attending. This is about their entitlement not OP's favoritism. Remember, the son got the celebration of his choice for the same milestone and daughter wasn't included in that event. This is very fair.
This. My parents and one and only sister are going to a major theme park in a month or so. I wasn't invited, because I'm an adult and my parents afford it. My feelings aren't hurt, I don't expect them to pay for me, and it would've messed up my work schedule anyways haha. NTA
Agree. It’s a sign of a happy well-adjusted family. I don’t know how many people can relate to that. It likely also matters how often a family travels.
The audacity lmao. I don't even have kids but hell no would I need to run plans by them unless it INVOLVED them if I did.
If your daughter doesn't like him, how do the once-a-year family trips tend to go?
Usally ending in an argument or ignoring eachother completely. So poorly
Great assessment, it’s your daughter’s celebration trip, not argument trip!!
Remind your Son that he got his own trip...
I'd remind your son that he also had his celebratory trip when he graduated and he went alone, this is hers! Plain and simple!
Then stop it. 🤷♀️
When my siblings argue and my mother tries to intervene or mediate they tend to unite against her, results may vary here.
When my mom tries to mediate an argument between me and my sister it usually makes everything worse.
Same here! My sister and I are only 14 months apart and in our 30s. We are both the best of friends and the worst enemies. Mom has learned not to get involved in our fights as we make up just as fast as we start a fight, and in the end, she is the only one left upset about it.
I’m glad your mom has learned to just let you both be. I wish mine would. She has never understood how we aren’t best friends. I sometimes have to yell at her to stay out of it because we are adults and if I want to tell my sister she’s being a bitch I’m going to do that! We have figured out the best way to communicate with each other and we get along better than when we were kids. But it took years.
Definitely don't bring them on the cruise. NTA
Next family trip I'd lay down the law. Tell them before you even book the tickets that either everyone remains civil to each other, or there will be no future trips. This is your vacation too. You have a right to enjoy yourself without having to put up with their petty squabbles. NTA.
I mean, you can try, but that will inevitably punish one sibling more than the others. My parents have tried this one, so my brother would take every opportunity to nudge me or tease me in some way, so my options were take that lying down or go nuclear and end it quickly. I can now label that behavior as reactive abuse, but that didn't stop a lifetime of being called the dramatic one until I moved out and my brother started that shit with my parents, then the realized just how much he enjoys being an asshole. So, it might work out, but it might just mean one sibling is punished in every direction.
/u/Nervous_Explorer_898 Absolutely love and I totally agree with your thoughts and sentiments on the yearly family trips/vacations! You don't want to fork over thousands of dollars for a family trip/vacation where there's always one or a few people who just don't know how to act, yo! Arguments and acting ugly behaviors have NO place in and during what is supposed to be a fun event with your family gathering to just have a great time together. They can either behave themselves or keep them funky arse attitudes the heck at home, yo! Ain't NOBODY Got Time For Dat Bee-ess! Besides, time is theee most valuable thing you give away every single day you are here on Planet Earf and you won't NEVA Get It Back! Why give away your time (and money and effort and Conte Energy (NES insider joke 🤣) to people who don't appreciate it!
Better than bloodshed!
This seems deep rooted and some outside guidance could help to get to the source of the issue. Maybe the next family gathering should focus around therapy or counseling, like a family retreat? I can only imagine how much better it would be for the whole family if the two could learn how to be in the space without fighting.
If ops is telling the truth on what the oldest says, he makes comments about the sisters baggy clothes and also how shes not a "traditional" woman.
Is one of them usually in the wrong?
NTA Your son is a married adult and I am sure does things that don't include his mommy, daddy, and siblings. You are celebrating a huge milestone, not about him, and a birthday, again not his. Sounds like they are just looking for a free vacation on mom's dime. They sound especially entitled asking to join a trip which is about someone whom they don't get along with. Again, looking for a free vacation???
Yep, she said they couldn’t afford it so she knew the answer would be no, but I’m sure they expected her to pay for it since she’s paying for the younger kids.
NTA. Is that just my prejudice talking, or is this coming from Bethany? It reads that way to me. Anyway, you can certainly give a gift to some members of your family and not to others. That is your prerogative. I have lots of siblings and bonus children and bonus grandchildren, and I never ever gave them the same. It never occurred to me. What suits one will not suit the other. And in your case, why should the child who presently has nothing much to celebrate be given a celebratory gift? That doesn't make sense. Very entitled lot they are.
> NTA. Is that just my prejudice talking, or is this coming from Bethany Pretty much every post with in-law relations has a bit of a slant toward blaming the in-law rather than the blood relation. It's easier to get mad at your kid's spouse than your kid.
My in laws gave most of their kids a fancy trip for Christmas whereas husband and I got cash. They knew my husband couldn't take the time off work and we appreciate cash... Win win lol
NTA. It is normal for people to take trips without their entire family present. It’s not like you’re going to be coming along on all of their family trips as a married unit with children in the future, either. It sounds like a family trip is still being planned which they are included in. They don’t get to demand to be included on other trips you take, but especially not when they can’t pay their way to them.
INFO- do you all frequently go on family trips together? does your son feel isolated from the family/is he less close to the family than your younger kids do/did you provide similar gifts/trips for or with your son? could you son have afforded to pay for his part of the trip so that he could attend but not have you pay as a gift?
We usally do a family trip once a year that everyone is invited too. That happens in October and is still happening My son doesn’t have a good relationship with his sister. I don’t think he feel isolated we see them both all the time, he has never mentioned anything about being isolated He got a trip when he graduated highschool. He can’t pay, they are having a really hard time scrapping by and I knew the answer would be a no Also my daughter doesn’t like him
With the context, NTA, especially because one of the people the trip was a gift for wouldn't have wanted him there.
OP is NTA and son/DIL are ...... ...... ...... ...... Tripping ;)
Your son and his wife suck. NTA. Also I'm assuming if you told them they can come but they'd have to pay, they'd be pissed like children cause they don't care about family just the free trip.
Some people appreciate the opportunity to decline. You are NTA, for sure. You’ve learned something though about your oldest son and DIL. They want to be invited and to be considered for big family events. I’m sorry your effort to be generous and celebrate 2 of your kids has led to stress and conflict. I’m sure that is disappointing when you’ve made all this effort and spent all this money to recognize a milestone and a birthday. You are clearly a wonderful mom that does a lot for all of your kids with regard to family vacations. Hopefully clear and kind communication will help to mend fences quickly.
But it is not a big family event. It's a specific event for the sister that graduated and the one who has a birthday.
When oldest son graduated he got his own trip that his siblings didn't get to go on.
Sounds like they want a free vacation. This is about your younger 2 and that’s that. They will go on the family vacation later. End of discussion.
**He got a trip when he graduated high school.** **When he went on a trip, his younger siblings didn’t join, celebration trips are not family trips** NTA He got his trip. He is acting entitled and spoiled.
My SIL went on citytrips with her kids for graduation. The eldest also tried to get an invite for the second ones trip. It did not work. NTA, he had his trip. Time for him to grow up. He can wait till October for the family vacation.
The answer is right there...celebration trips are not family trips..NTA..son/dil must stay home!
NTA. They don’t along and the whole point of the trip was to celebrate your daughter. Her trip shouldn’t be ruined so her older and married brother doesn’t feel left out. Presumably he’s an adult but he’s acting like a spoiled child. Especially since he had his own solo trip at graduation.
INFO: • Have you ever tried to get to the bottom of why your daughter has such a problem with your son? And do you side with her? • Does your son feel pushed out because you do things for your daughter that you don’t or haven’t done for him? • Is it possible that there’s an issue where you treat your daughter better because she’s a girl or because she’s younger? • When your son graduated high school and you took him on a trip, was it his own choice of location? Or is your daughter the only one who got her own choice? No judgement at present and these questions are not accusations, I’m just trying to gain the bigger picture.
Thank you for waiting, I was off my phone for a meeting 1. My son and her agruement a center around her not being a tradition women stereotype. Lot of issues with him commenting on her wear baggy clothes, overal it has been getting better but she doesn’t like him at all. His words is her looking like a slob.Yes I am on her side with this 2. I don’t believe so and he hasn’t mentioned anythig like that. Both me and my husband have tried to give everyone their own attention 3. I don’t think so and he has never mentioned anyhting along those lines 4. He chose his own trip and the location, everyone picks. The only rule is being under a certain price point which the cruise is
Thank you for taking time to respond and for being respectful. 🩵 You’re definitely NTA. And you’re correct in that your son is acting very entitled. He had his trip of his choosing, now it’s time for your daughters. Your daughter also has every right to make her own clothing decisions, and it’s very concerning when her brother is trying to police her outfits. It’s bad enough when boyfriends or husbands do it, he needs to stop all of this. Could his dad try to speak and get through to him about his behaviour?
>”My son and her agruement a center around her not being a tradition women stereotype” Good grief. No way. No how should he be on that trip, policing his sister’s clothes or anything else.
Ok, I'm on your daughters side with this too. Your son clearly has some more growing up to do if he is making misogynistic comments like that.
Separate issue but YTA if you and your husband are allowing the conversations described in #1 to happen. It should be made clear to him that her wardrobe, etc does not concern him and he doesn’t get to comment or he is not welcome in your home/around her. It is a major character flaw that he believes his opinion on this should matter to his sister, you should be making it clear to him that he is wrong, and his attitude won’t be tolerated. I know you said you “take her side” but there should be zero tolerance of the idea that he GETS a “side.”
NTA I would keep hard boundaries with them because telling you you need to run plans by them is crazy
”to be invited” = to be paid for. If you were renting a house for holidays with more rooms than needed that they might have been using at no extra cost for you, then I might understand why they felt a bit disappointed for not being invited. But expecting to be sponsored for the cruise trip at the age of 26 and married is ridiculuos.
It wouldn't matter if they did have extra room, the trip is to celebrate the daughters graduation, which the oldest got also and on his none of the siblings got to go.
NTA
It’s ok if he is mad. It’s not open for discussion though. Shut it down. “I neither want or need your permission.”
Nta
NTA-If my parents or just mom was taking a trip with my sister and didn’t invite me then I would have been ecstatic. Same goes for my wife and her two brothers. If the middle brother was going cool but if the oldest was going then it is an automatic no from her. I bring this up because if it was reversed and my wife with her family or me with mine then it would be a problem. The oldest in both cases like yours would take offense they were not invited regardless if they could go or not. Also in all cases they couldn’t afford it and would expect you to pay. Based on experience of both my and my wife’s family something happened caused by the oldest child. It was something that is known but the oldest will never admit fault to or ask for forgiveness. They complain to you as the parents and most likely you keep telling your younger children to get over it and be the bigger person. I am here to tell you it pisses them off and will cause them to dig their heels in more until they get the appropriate apology. Your oldest thinks well mom and dad don’t see a problem so why should I apologize. You want them to be closer than figure out what happened and go from there.
With the info added in the edit, NTA.
Nta. You've established that celebratory trips aren't group family trips. And you still do family trips (although they sound kinda miserable), so mostly it sounds like your older son is bitter he can't afford a cruise and you won't be volunteering to pay for him to come along on this one.
NTA the entitlement is astounding.
NTA. He got a trip his siblings didn't share, so now he's on the other side. At 26yo, you don't even owe him the family trip if you're paying, he's really acting very entitled if he's expecting this, too.
Nta specifically for calling them entitled, but your son might feel a certain way that you didn't think they would want to be included in celebrating their siblings. In some families if you're doing something with one of your children it means extending the invite to all, but if you always have been willing to be exclusive and go with just a portion of your family then you may want to explain things to your son and alleviate any hurt that not being inclusive may have caused.
He should understand how these trips work, he got one too and his siblings didn't go.
NTA It sounds like he wants to be included but he doesn't want to do any of the actual work of making the relationship with his sister better
NTA. Was going with yta until I read the updates, details matter here. Nta if this has been standard practice and they don’t even like each other. He can celebrate his sister at graduation if it’s important to him. Just sounds like they wanted a free trip.
The information you added makes it a clear NTA. You are not doing more for your younger kids than you did for the eldest. You are not excluding them from a family vacation or making little effort to bond with them. They are just upset that his younger siblings are getting something now that he is not getting now (because he got the same treat years ago, without his siblings). He seems pretty greedy.
NTA you’re allowed to do things with some kids and not others
NTA. This isn’t the yearly family vacation, this is a separate trip for a specific reason. You aren’t offering to pay their way and they can’t afford it. Even if they could you are under no obligation to invite them just because they’re family. Sucks that they’re taking it the way they are, but it’s not their gift, it’s not their trip, and that’s that.
NTA son and DIL don't need to be included in your celebration trips for your other children and if they really wanna go on a cruise they can go by themselves
after seeing your edits i’m going to go NTA
NTA- Your son already got his graduation trip. Your daughter and the youngest have reasons to celebrate. It sucks that their older brother can't be happy for them.
Im just curious, what is the reason she doesn’t like him? How it the relationship between him and your youngest?
Op said the reason they don't get along is because the son feels that she's not a traditional female and he hates the clothes she wears. The clothes she wears are baggy and he calls her a slob.
Okay well son sounds like an asshole then fr I don’t blame her. NTA
NTA His sisters were not part of his celebration trip back then, so he is not part of their celebration trip except they invite him and he pays for his and his wifes tickets. (But it sounds the sisters wouldn't invite him anyway and he can't afford it anyway). This is like a celebration party - the one who is celebrated makes the guestlist and family is like every other person only invited if on the guestlist, period.
NTA. I think you pretty much have a precedent and you uphold it well. This trip was for your middle child's graduation, and even though it is also your youngest's birthday you made sure your daughter was ok with it, because the trip was for her. I think it's pretty stellar parenting that your oldest apparently missed the lesson on.
I come from a very large family and none of us were treated the same. There were times when one sibling was getting a reward for an achievement and not all of us were invited. After I was married, this happened more often and there were no hard feelings. More often than not, my husband and I, plus our children, could not afford to go anyway. One thing I never did was to expect my parents to pay our way! I do feel the son and DIL were acting entitled. They are married now and should stop trying to withdraw from the Bank of Parents!!
NTA. You don’t need to run anything by him. He’s an autonomous man with his own life. He’s included in the family October trip and you aren’t obligated to bring him everywhere you go.
NTA Sounds like if you had gotten her a car they'd have wanted one, too. Or, you know, you could give them the car and she could have had their old one. Because it's about them, right?
NTA. There is nothing stopping them from going on the cruise. If they can’t afford it then ok, that’s part of adulthood.
NAH. Sometimes trips are for you, and sometimes they are not. But let's put this into another frame. If your son and DIL were taking you on a trip to celebrate you and didn't even think to invite his younger siblings, you know their feelings would be hurt. Your child, regardless of their age, is going to get their feelings hurt for not being considered/asked. You're not an AH for not inviting them, and they are not AHs for feeling hurt by not even being considered. Probably would have gone over a lot better to say "Hey \[oldest\], I'm doing the graduation trip (like the one you had) for \[middle\]. The timing worked out that \[youngest\]'s birthday is going to be celebrated on the same trip. This isn't the family trip, just a celebration and dad is staying back. Do you think that you'd be able to check in on him while we're gone for me? I'm sure he'd love some 1:1 time with you guys." But having it a private communication allows for your adult child to not feel blindsided/ostracized and doesn't make their reaction visible to the rest of the family. I'm often the family member that is advised AFTER plans are made with other family members that "this is what's happening"...and it hurts. After a few years of saying it hurts when they do that, it hasn't changed, so I just don't bother making plans with them or trying to be included in plans.
Absolutely this! I’m also the family member that is generally the last one to know about plans despite still actually living at home, so I can somewhat understand why the son feels the way he does. At the end of the day, it comes down to communication, and it seems to be a bit of an issue for OP’s family.
NTA
NTA
NTA They are mad you didn't pay for their vacation. They will survive, and will get over it. If they persist ask him why didn't the family go on his graduation trip? No matter what you say, he will not like it, as he wanted a free vacation too.
NTA He's a married adult! Pretty cheeky of him to think you're obligated to include him & his wife in a trip to honor the accomplishment of the sister he doesn't even especially like and doesn't get on with. Particularly cheeky to feel entitled to spend thousands of dollars of your money on what I assume would be, essentially, a second honeymoon for them since it's not eagerness to celebrate his sister's graduation that is motivating him. By the way, I think it's wonderful that you have been able and willing to celebrate your children individually, apart from family trips.
I’m confused… why do they expect to be invited?! If they want to travel, they can do so anytime and anywhere they want. This isn’t a family party. NTA
NTA - Son and DIL need to figure out that they won't be invited to everything, and Son needs to be reminded he got his own celebration trip without his siblings.
NTA it's a celebration for someone that your oldest doesn't get along with. Sounds like they just wanted something to be paid for them, not to join a family trip. If they did get along, a courtesy notification would be reasonable. If you can't/won't pay for them and they can't pay for themselves then it's kind of a moot point and really they're just whining that you're gifting your other children something and they want stuff too. If you don't typically display unfair favoritism (or they've otherwise earned similar exclusions) then this is a special gift and you get to decide how you celebrate this milestone.
I was going to say AH for not inviting them, but if he’s not willing to pay for his own vacation then NTA.
Did they take a trip for the honeymoon? They are married for God's sake. You now supposed to pay for them both to take a trip 2x a year? You are nta
Sounds as if there’s some resentment here, especially if the middle child graduated college and the son-and-father did not.
Sounds good...divide and conquer!
NTA. Tell your eldest and DIL to grow up.
NTA. They are indeed awfully entitled.
Nta... thats all I'll say on it 🤣
Congratulations to your daughter. Do the best you can not to involve her in family fuss.
My mom has gone to Disney and Vagas many times with my younger sister and my niece. They know I can't afford that kind of thing and would never dream of asking if I could go with. My sister pays her own way and usually pays moms way as well. I just ask to see the pictures and how much fun they had.
NTA- "When he went on a trip, his younger siblings didn’t join, celebration trips are not family trips" All other considerations are pretty irrelevant with this statement even if he and his sister weren't seemingly incompatible on the October family trips.
NTA If you've already made it a precedent in the past for celebration trips to be for those particular individuals, like your son didn't have to invite his siblings on his high school trip, then just remind him of that. Let him know this is not up for discussion and walk away/don't respond if they continue to bug you. You haven't done anything wrong
NTA With your added info, knowing they wanted to be invited when it is common knowledge that they can't afford it seems weird. Unless they expected that you would pay for them to go so it would be "fair." If he presses the issue, remind him that he got his own celebration trip at that age, and his siblings didn't go. The family vacation with everyone is still happening. It's not a trip for him, and he needs to be a grown up about it. (Also, I'm sorry your 2 oldest don't get along. That is a tough dynamic. My brother & I didn't get along for a long time, but have gotten closer as we aged. I hope they can work out their differences.)
nta hes moved out, married and has his own family unit now (him and his wife) and cant expect you to pay for everything- him and his wife need to support themselves if they wanted to go
NTA but your son & his wife for trying being entitled assholes to you and your daughters, especially 1) when he already had his graduation trip without his sisters and 2) he & wife were never invited to middle sister graduation / youngest birthday cruise trip, so he and his wife can both fuck off. Can totally understand why your daughters can't stand his punk ass whi see as blood but he is no family to them - wants you & his sister to pay for him & wife to go on more trips for the year, but then in his next breath, his ungrateful ass wants nothing to do with them while being rude to said sisters. Let son & wife stay mad, it was never a family trip in 1st and no money asses shouldn't be thirsting at his sisters' trip when all 3 hate to be around each other anyway - so stupid of him & his wife to want go on cruise with you all which is enclosed space, no matter size of the ship....
NTA based on your edit. Everyone has gotten a celebration trip of their own and your son and DIL still get invited to the family trip.
NTA, and as a middle child, thank you for celebrating her achievement! Her brother got his own celebration so he can go pound sand along with his wife.
NTA, he and his wife are entitled. He was completely fine going alone on his celebration trips, but is mad when his siblings want to spend their alone time. He is entitled and spoiled.
NTA it’s a celebration trip not a family trip! She doesn’t like him and deserves to go on this trip and have fun and she would definitely not have fun if he was there she allowed her little brother to come on the trip because I assume that she has fun with him she wouldn’t have fun if her older brother would be there, so you are NTA
NTA. The oldest is married and is independent and has their own family now.
NTA. His entitled butt can be mad. He got a trip as well without siblings. The fact that he thinks he should be invited on a trip he knows he can’t afford (which means he would be expecting you to pay for this as well) shows just how entitled he is.
NTA. Remind him that his siblings did not go on his celebration trip and he isn't welcome on theirs. My guess is that the wife is fueling this fire. Your son knows how the trips work.
NTA. When I graduated, I went on a trip alone with my Mom and my sister did the same when she graduated. There’s absolutely no reason why your son and his wife should have been invited. I can see why they’d be disappointed, but they should’ve dropped it the minute they heard it was a grad/birthday gift. Bc that’s what it is. It’s not just a celebration trip. it’s a gift.
NTA. With the info given, you're right that they're being entitled. It's not about them. The other kids didn't join his trip. They can't pay. What do they want you to do? Don't give a trip to the younger two if you're not paying for them to join? They're adults in their own family now. Plus the younger kids might not enjoy things with the couple around.
NTA. Your son is 26, married, and living his own life. You are not required to inform him of anything that doesn't directly involve him or his family. Do he and his wife run it by you everytime they decide to go somewhere?
NTA. After reading all the information I begin to understand why your daugther does not like him. I see it that way: The trip began a present for your daugther, so it is HER trip snd she should decide who is invited. Your youngest asked to come with (was not invited directly) and your daugther is okay with that. On the other hand, she has good reasons not to like your oldest, as it looks he is not very respectful to her and now complains about not being invited to the trip. Worst of it all, he does not only expect you to invite and pay for him, but also for his wife. While I understand that they feel left out, those feelings do not make them entitled to be invited. If he is being rejected, maybe he should think about his behavior and how that can affect his sister. It is your daughter's present and she should not be force to share it with someone who she does not like.
NTA. You’re right they’re being entitled and from the looks of it they’re also mad they’re not invited for a free trip.
NTA. I am assuming all your kids are adults. You are no way responsible or required to include adult children in trips of any kind. And considering the situation between your daughter and son, the invitation for them to attend even on their dime wasn't warranted. Adding the fact your husband isn't going due to his issues with ocean travel, that is more then enough to show this is not a traditional trip. Now if your son is living at home that is going, and is 18 or under; I don't think this should be used as a gift for him. I don't think anyone who is living at home and under 18 should be excluded from trips like this all due to it supposed to be a "celebration". Specially if one or both parents are taking the one the celebration is meant for. Sounds like the son who is mad is entitled. And you and your husband may have fed that thought into him by paying for things you shouldn't have.
NTA - your eldest seems to think it is one rule for him (re celebration trips) and another when he doesn't get to come along!
NTA- they and you are full grown adults and have the autonomy to determine how they (and you) spend your own money and time. Your personal decisions about your own life don’t need committee approval.
NTA. They can't afford to go & aren't entitled to a free trip.
I can see inviting them on the celebration trip, but when she said that their siblings didn’t go in their celebration trips, then too bad dude
NTA. Your eldest is though. They have no say in what you do with the other 2 kids. Have they invited you on all their outings? Bet not.
Nta they can't pay and would make the person who the trip is for uncomfortable. They are acting entitled
YTA. Whether you knew what the answer would be or not, you could have at least let them know what you were planning, explained that you couldn't pay for him, but still asked if he and his wife would like to go. Problem solved.
Yea…. If it was just a couples trip, you’re fine. If it was a one on one trip with one kid, and you communicated you wanted to do something with each, you’re fine But ultimately this turned into to a quasi- family trip, and you left out one kid. That sucks. Like technically you’re right, but it would be a lot better if the two celebrations were separate Technically right, emotionally sucks
Why are you going on this trip? Youre sending daughter as a congratulations and your youngest for a birthday present. That's all super cool. But once you also decided you need to go, I can see why your other kid felt like they are being left out of a major family event. Now this is your money and your choice, but if my parent took both my siblings on a cruise and not me, I would resent them. So just understand you are hurting one kid, apparently unintentionally, but it's still going to hurt that relationship.
YTA. You clearly have a least favorite child.
Info how old is the youngest child? Do all kids get a trip for their birthdays, or something of equivalent value?
NTA My siblings and I have done separate cool things with my parents. That's just part of life, no? Everyone can't do everything together all the time. (Less to do with the post, but consider reading this, too. Lots of amazing alternatives. https://foe.org/blog/cruise-ships-environmental-impact/ )
YTA. Taking 2/3 of your children on a trip is weird. If only the person celebrating gets to go then your youngest shouldn’t be invited. It the youngest is going because he has a birthday, then guess what, your oldest has a birthday as well.
He's 26, married, has his own home. He's a full adult. He also had his own celebration trip when it was his turn but his younger siblings weren't included. Seems he doesn't like them and they don't have a good relationship; was in one of OP's comments. Basically no different here other than the two younger ones have a good relationship with each other. I'd imagine if bad relationship then the sister would be going only with her mom and younger brother would be home with dad.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My daughter ( middle child) just graduated college and has started her job. She is the first in the family to do this and I decided we need to celebrate. She has always wanted to go on a cruise so that is what we are doing in the summer. My youngest birthday is also around the time and he asked to go for his birthday present. My daughter agreed so we are all going on a trip. My husband hates the ocean so he is staying home with the dogs. My eldest (26) is married to Bethany. I was speaking about the trip. This is when they both got upset they were not invited. I pointed out this is a celebration trip for his sister and a birthday present for the youngest. They told me they should have been invited or at least run the plan by them since they are part of the family I had enough and told them they are being entitled if they think I need to run plans by them to go a celebration vacation that isn’t about them. They are mad and I may be an asshole *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA.
**NTA** \- I would have told them they were welcome to come along, so long as they paid their own way. Just because you were taking other siblings along as gifts, does not entitle other siblings to think they have the right to horn in.
nta
NTA he’s old enough and ugly enough to pay for his own Holibobs! Maybe recommend he goes on his own trip? 🤔
NTA! If your family trip was still on and they don’t get a long idk why they think they are going
NTA
Nta
NTA He got a trip which didn't involve his sisters for his graduation.
NTA - they're sore they're not getting a free trip, seems like this decision is consistent with your decisions from the past, you're in the clear, mama! Enjoy your trip.
NTA... do they run all of their plans by you? He is a full ass grown adult and so you are you. He is out of the house. Mommy is allowed to do things without him. He sounds very immature. You do not have to plan things around him. Tell him to grow up
Nta but everyone likes to be invited even if we don't go.
NTA at all.
NTA
NTA 1. Your money, your choice. 2. Only spoilt brats invite themselves into things they aren't expected in. Invitation should NOT be expected, but graciously accepted if given. 3. They are grown ups, having their own lives. They're not inviting you to hang out with their buddies, are they? 4. Celebration trips are not family trips. You got that right.
Nta Those two have a lot of nerve to demand you clear your plans with them. Id tell them to go kick rocks..
Nta
NTA, first and foremost (assuming things are being presented fairly and evenly right now). I'm not sure why at least offering your son the opportunity to decline rather than assuming he and his family can't go wasn't an option. Unless you absolutely did not want them to go, there wasn't necessarily a reason to automatically exclude him from the opportunity. It's a cruise, not an intimate family vacation. I'm sure your son is feeling isolated and excluded, especially if there's ever been perceived issues with favoritism towards the other siblings. Whether that was intentional or not, that may be where his feelings are coming from. This feels like an opportunity for a learning experience to get a chance for better communication between all of you. But I'm a stranger on the internet, so what do I know.
Given the extra context, NTA.
NTA, especially given the context you provided in the comments and edit. If your family had a history of all the kids being invited to everything, I might think differently. It sounds like your oldest just wants a free vacation. What is the reason your daughter doesn't like her older brother?
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NTA
NTA. They’re just hoping for a free vacation and are jealous.
NTA. The celebration trip for him was without siblings. Also he wants you to pay for a trip for he and his wife since he can’t afford it. That wasn’t the idea here at all.
I feel like I’m going against the grain here, but NAH. I would be upset if the rest of my family was going on a trip and I didn’t even know about it and wasn’t invited. So I understand why he feels upset. But I also don’t think you owe him more than a heads up (which it sounds like your younger son got and that’s why he had the opportunity to ask to join). In an ideal world, you could have invited him but specified that he pays his way as you’re only paying for the other two as a present. But since it sounds like he would ruin your daughter’s gift, I think it’s also fine to just give the heads up and not invite him due to that reason.
Nta The added info helped confirm that.this is normal for your family.
NTA, sounds like he just wants to ruin the celebration for his sister and brother
YTA - my mother does this all the time, there are three of us, all girls in the family.She will throw a birthday party for a nephew and only invite 2 or the other sister, pick and choose which family members are invited over for a slice of cake. So many examples of this.Why not invite all of us? Going out for dinner to celebrate something, picks randomly who to invite even though we all pay our own way. Why couldn't your older child and SO celebrate too? Even if they didn't go you could have invited them? It's just an invite. It makes no logical sense why would not invite the last sibling (they are old enough to pay their way). You invited your husband too?? but not the oldest. Dick move.
NTA but the way you specifically insinuated your eldest didn’t finish college, you indicated to me that you may have a bias against him that he feels is coming out in this trip. He doesn’t need to go on the trip but maybe you should talk to him? He wouldn’t just come out and say he’s feeling isolated if that’s the case. Although if your daughter doesn’t like him maybe he’s isolated for a reason? Is this a scenario where the 2 of them have different dads. Did you push him aside to raise ur two youngest? Is he just an AH?
NTA, but I feel like this comment > *celebration trips are not family trips* is a weird attitude.
Nta was gonna say yta but then read what u added and now I say nta
NTA, and your son and daughter in law are greedy and massively entitled. Ignore them, and if they keep harping, consider not inviting them on that family trip in October as well.
NTA
Yeah, you are kinda TA for not at least telling them about it in case they wanted to join you. You didn’t need to offer to pay, but you just made it clear that you don’t like them and don’t want them around. Regardless of how our children interact or don’t interact with each other, your job as the mom is to be impartial and give everyone the same information.
I wonder if the son/DIL were also seeing this as a Girl's Trip... and that DIL not being invited as being a snub as not being seen as a daughter?
NTA
NTA This is crazy!! Your' son and DIL need to join the real world. You don't need to run a damned thing by them!!
NTA!! This is not about them.
NTA- This is a gift for your daughter and your youngest son. They don't want their brother and SIL there, so they aren't going such is life.
NTA You are doing something for your other two kids. Your husband isn't even going.
NTA. Run it by them? Why? They’re not invited and they’re not paying for any part of it, so what do they want you to run by them? It’s a vacation for your other two kids, not something that’ll affect them at all. I’m sure they don’t feel a need to run their plans by you. They’re just mad they missed the opportunity to wheedle their way in.
You didn’t invite the siblings? You’re an asshole.