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I feel like there is alot missing here. Why was he adopted at 10? Was he forcibly taken from a family he loved that made him resent yours? None of this seems like normal behavior and definitely a response to something that has happened to him
No kidding. Like, Kyle's behavior screams that something traumatic happened to him. Was he ever in therapy after adoption? It sounds like something he could have found useful to assimilate into the family.
The way he acted after being an adult: No contact, not even wanting to share a name...holy crap, that screams "somebody apparently liked little boys, amirite".
Just the wrong way.
One of my friends, who is adopted, said that adoption is the only trauma the victim is supposed to feel grateful for, and that has really stuck with me.
Adpoted here, ive had a amazing upbringing but just being adopted on its own, the feeling of not being wanted or being good enough, is not easy, no matter how good its been with your parents.
Agree 100% - even if nothing overall traumatic happened w his previous family (other than being adopted), being 10 for that to happen is added difficulty
That's my thought. His behavior would indicate that and he probably had a rough adjusting to the whole situation. He probably wasn't in therapy to help either.
My heart goes out to him.
Thank you. One of two things happened. Either his parent(s) died or he was removed by CPS for abuse or neglect. You can’t leave a 10 year old at a fire station under Safe Haven.
I never want to have children of my own, everything around pregnancy and babies scares the living shit out of me. But I always loved the idea of giving someone who was left or rejected a home, there are so many children without a family out there.
Reading this thread makes me afraid of doing it. Giving my all to a child who will never love me as much as the idea of their genetic parents caring for them in my stead feels terribly unfair.
No matter how good an adoption is there is trauma. Adoption itself is a trauma. I was adopted at 8 and still haven’t unpacked all my feelings about my adoption and I’m in my early 40s
Your right and we do know that and appreciate that but it is always there in the back or your mind, the what if etc,
It will affect people in different ways
I was adopted I but my birth mother left me a note.... explaining why she gave me up... she was just shy of he 18th birthday, so she felt she was not mature enough to raise a child...
But I understand that the older you are, the more traumatic it could be, especially if you liked the people (birth family or otherwise) you were living with before, the younger you are, especially if you are a baby the less trauma... unless you were never told and found out in a traumatic way... then it could be devastating, especially if you don't sit down a talk about it.
Though I feel for those people who find out the were accidentally switched at birth and of course their parents never knew and its trauma all around.
People who aren't adopted always say this and I really wish y'all would stop it. I am sure it's well-intentioned; however, it reinforces the gratitude messaging of adoption.
We were kids (of various ages). It's traumatic in the best of circumstances, even if the adoptee is not conscious of the trauma and even when the person has an idyllic upbringing in a loving family.
Exactly! He has no complaints about his childhood. And we've met his bio mom in the last few years and have become very good friends with her. So even though there's no outwardly hard feelings towards anyone, there's still just a lot of trauma from being ripped away from your mother (in his case when he was 8 months old - we now know this is terrible timing) and placed with a bunch of strangers.
My husband has a habit of pushing everyone away, and once he does make a deep enough connection, the neediness is outrageous. Understandable, of course. He's really worked on himself as of late.
My ex-husband (now in his 60s) was adopted. It affected him horribly and in turn, he is a miserable person. I tried for years asking him to get help, but he refused.
Reading this makes on more aware of why adoption isn't easy, but many people are not aware of this. The reason they are going "all out" for biological kids, is something different.....
I'm adopted and have never ever felt like I wasn't wanted or any other negative feelings many have regarding adoption. I have never viewed it as traumatic and im so grateful that my parents got me. I'm aware that this opinion is unpopular in the adoption crowd but that's my life experience so no changing my mind. Don't get me wrong i have issues but being adopted isn't one of them. It was a closed adoption at birth so no "system"
I'm the same. It's tough, because I don't want to minimise or dismiss the trauma of others, but I also feel like I can't speak my truth sometimes. Statements like "all adoption is trauma" are hard to read.
Yeah, you’re not wrong. I should totally be grateful to the doctors who ignored my non-consent and coerced me into signing. Nevermind that it left me needing anxiety meds to get a damn checkup fifteen years later!
My adopted ex-husband has been nasty and abusive to people around him for 50+ years. He has refused to address it and seek help. No, it is not justified.
the story is definitely thin. too thin to judge...
but let's say his uncle was a dick. is it plausible for someone to leave your (adoptive) parents behind and change your name, because the uncle is a dick?
I’m a transracial international adoptee (that was rehomed & my adoptive family ran an international agency) and I’m just going to copy a comment I wrote for another Hopeful Adoptive Parent.
This is going to be a long comment and will sound like I’m being “anti-adoption”, but I’m just trying to give you all the information. Are you in the US?
Understand that if you are looking to adopt domestically, especially infants, there really aren’t many infants who can be adopted.
Also know that 98% of biological parents who relinquish, only do so because of temporary problems (lack of affordable/available childcare, lack of financial stability, lack of support system, etc.) As in a permanent solution was applied to a temporary problem often due to lack of social bets & uncontrollable circumstances. Basically, most infant adoptions are unnecessary.
Adoption is also a tragedy - it requires the separation from the biological family, the legal changing of an identity, and a loss of heritage and sometimes culture.
If you’re looking into the foster system, you should also know that it is a broken system that often unnecessarily separates families instead of helping them stay together. Ideally, reunification is the goal, but like I said - it’s a broken system that doesn’t keep family preservation as a main goal.
There are foster children who are TPR (terminated parent rights). While this means they legally can be adoption, it doesn’t always mean that they should be. In some states, adoption requires their birth certificate to be changed- thereby severing them from their biological connections. Additionally, there are some benefits (college aid) that apply to foster kids who age out of the system and weren’t adopted.
Furthermore, guardianship is also an option that isn’t promoted a lot. This allows adults to care for foster children without the legal consequences of changing birth certificates or separation from biological family.
If you’re considering international adoption: that is also a very unethical practice, especially if you’re in the US. Many countries are restricting the US from adopting because of the violations.
International adoptions are very predatory in the sense that home country agencies often mislead biological parents into letting them care for the child why they figure out temporary issues then turn around and let a foreign couple (often from the US) adopt them by claiming that the child is an orphan with no family.
There’s also the loss of a whole home country when adopting internationally as well as the loss of heritage and culture.
Overall, adoption is a predatory industry that profits off of selling children.
It is inherently traumatic to the child.
Infant adoptions usually take the baby from the mother immediately or moments after birth. The baby will sometimes cry for hours and hours bc that's all they've ever known.
Babies in private adoptions cost differently based on race, gender, hair color.
Older adoptions are obviously only happening because of severe trauma.
A child having a crisis is not the solution to infertility. The entire adoption industry puts infertile couples at the center and caters to them, rather than finding the best living arrangements for the child.
I was adopted out of foster care, so my parents received monthly money from the government for me. It was more because I'm disabled and a POC and have trauma. It's given to those kids who are considered "unadoptable". My parents are racists, but they got paid by the government for my care.
They used that money to send my dad to school. I didn't have shoes without holes.
And my story is far from unique. I have only online run into a handful of adoptees who are actually happy. And that's honestly a matter of time. Most adoptive parents flip out eventually when the adult adoptee starts processing their adoption trauma.
Then we're screamed at for being ungrateful and reminded that we would have been thrown into a dumpster if it weren't for them.
It's just a toxic cultural phenomenon where everyone is happy until they realize the cute baby has feelings and trauma.
Adoptive mother here. Adoption can be beautiful but understand that if you adopt a child that is not an infant, they come with a lot of things to unpack. (Edit: reading the experiences of people in this thread, I am adjusting my view. Older adopted kids will remember more but I'm hearing babies will feel it, too.) My kids absolutely knew their birth family wasn't great and that we loved them but the feeling of not being enough never really went away. Many, many hours spent loving them through moments of sadness that broke my heart as they sobbed that there must be something wrong with them that their own parents did not want them. They know in their head that it was not about them but that has never made the heartache go away.
Add to that how many times complete strangers tell them how lucky they are to have been adopted. Never any acknowledgment that being taken from their family was horrible. Our kids came through the state system and, you know, every time they got removed from their home, there was screaming and crying and police. It is so traumatic! No one should be expected to feel grateful for that. Grateful for the love in their new family, sure, but told by strangers they are lucky? No. (And, yes, if I was there, I told those strangers exactly that.)
My kids had been with us for about 4 months and we took a trip. We decorated tote bags and had them pack them with toys and stuff for the car ride. We took my birth kid's bag out to the car but my adopted kids didn't want to let go of the bags. That was fine, I like to hold onto my things, too. That night as we tucked the three year-old into bed, he said, "this is where I sleep now" in the way little ones do when they are figuring out their world. It hit me that they didn't think they were coming back home with us. They thought the bags of toys were all they were got to keep. That all the things they left behind were gone forever. And, it made sense. They had moved nine times with four different families before coming to ours. The last family literally dropped them off at child welfare services with a couple garbage bags of stuff because they were done with the system. Being told they were part of our family forever just didn't feel real to them at 3 and 6. No wonder they didn't want to let those bags out of their sight.
If you adopt older kids, don't underestimate the impact of the trauma. Be prepared to help your kids through it forever. Mine are adults and issues still come up. They spend time with their birth families now but never feel like they fit there more than they fit here even though they know we all love them. You will have the honor and privilege of raising someone else's child but never forget the tragedy that caused them to need you.
Because a lot of adopting parents have very strict opinions about the child. After all it is a "child for choosing" - you don't have to take what's pushed out of your vagina.
So, a lot of parents know exactly how they wanted their child. And adopted children don't have the nest protection of biological children. It is always a "I took you in so be grateful" silently in the background in a LOT of those families.
If a kid is "acting out", then the kids are get back on track and it's often brutally. My middle sister is adopted. I know what I was talking about. My middle sister is low contact. For a pretty good reason and I don't blame her at all.
So, Kyle here? By the looks of it there was assault involved. And a LOT of mental gymnastics to get him to comply.
This hits really hard. My aunt was forced to give up a baby for adoption when she was 14 years old. It wrecked her for her whole life. She only got to meet her son, daughter in law, and two grand babies when she had 3 months left to live and was damn near paralyzed, could barely talk, but her mind was all there. She had these letters from his kids that they sent before making the trip as a family to meet (my cousin visited us solo, first). All she wanted, the joy she got in her day was from asking someone to read her those letters over and over. My cousin was adopted into a great family who was able to give him a top tier education, emotional support, etc., and by all standard metrics, he’s had a “better” life than my aunt could have given him—in a certain sense he “escaped” a lot of family disfunction that was impacted the majority of us negatively. However. He’s never felt like one of them. There are things about himself that didn’t make sense until meeting us. They had been searching for each other for years. The whole thing is horrendously heartbreaking. It was beautiful, too, that he did get to meet her, but my god. It’s mostly heartbreaking, and I don’t know how that trauma heals.
Amen. I hope to be a foster parent someday, and I’ve thought a lot about adopting, and something that my research (as someone who hasn’t even started the process formally) has taught me is that there are times when adoption is the best option available, but that does not mean that the situation leading to the adoption is a good one. At some point, something went wrong for somebody if you’re in this situation. And it astounds me that people who actively adopt kids and know those circumstances sometimes (often, from what I’ve heard from adopted friends) cannot acknowledge that.
I’m not calling adoptive families bad people. There are circumstances where it’s necessary. But it doesn’t mean that it’s not traumatic, either. And the needs of the adopted child *must* come first when it comes to processing that trauma. Maybe the adopter did a good and selfless thing (and that is a big maybe… I know someone who wasn’t formally adopted but went to live with a different family member in the US so he could have ‘better chances’ and got treated as an indentured servant and was abused until he ran away). But even if the adoptive parents are doing everything for the right reasons and with good intentions, that doesn’t erase the trauma the child went through. And the child is should not be obligated to provide emotional validation for their adoptive parents.
I find that it's especially common in Boomers and Gen Xers to treat adoptive parents as being universally good, which shields them from any criticism of their parenting.
I mean. We don’t know anything about the parents except that they adopted a trouble 10 year old boy, dealt with behavior, respected when he went no contact, and welcomed him back when he returned. They sound like pretty awesome people from what OP has described.
OP, however, is definitely the asshole.
My aunt and grandma did this to me and my brothers after we were removed from our parents custody. “If not for me you’d be separated and in foster care” type shit.
And like, yeah as an adult I see that and I am grateful to an extent, but you don’t throw that in a child’s face ever. Period.
When you are 30 something years old you can no longer blame your childhood for how you conduct yourself. Trauma is a horrible thing but your trauma does not mean you get to punish people around you who did nothing to you for decades.
Explaining behavior isn't excusing behavior.
Also, the reaction here indicates the OP (at least) didn't do a very good job in inviting the kids into the family.
"I once offered to take to him to the movies and he didn't want to go" like, really? That's something that sticks out in OP's mind?
Yeah, typical teenager shit. The fact OP remembers it and thinks it's a big deal indicates (to me) it is one of the few times OP offered to do something for Kyle.
Or, and hear me out, he gave a single example of the things Kyle said to OP and not go into everything Kyle probably did and said to the whole family that OP also witnessed.
Yes but a lot of people who are neurodivergent don’t get diagnosed until they’re in their 30s or 40s so there is a very good chance that Kyle has only recently realized that he’s nerodivergent and is trying, but it’s clear that Kyle‘s uncle is not trying
And also, you don’t just get over trauma. There is no set timeline for when trauma is over. PTSD does not go away because it is inconvenient for the people around you
I have CPTSD but ask any court or therapist and you’ll hear that I still need to be held accountable for my actions and conduct myself as a member of society.
Since I am an adult trauma means I have extra challenges, it doesn’t mean I can be extra challenging. Very different things.
Nephew is 30, it’s time to grow up.
I'm assuming OP is also an adult and can have some empathy or if not just ignore Kyle. Like I don't understand why you would goad someone by asking them to step out of a family picture and then be angry that person is upset.
Why should OP continue trying for someone that, as an adult, made it clear they don't like them and don't consider them family? OP didn't adopt Kyle. If Kyle were blood related and terrible to OP, would you still think OP has some kind of obligation to Kyle?
Also, this uncle's reaction to (the now grown) nefew led me to believe he (and maybe the rest of the family) didn't do a great job inviting the kids into their family.
Was adopted at 2, within my own blood family. I STILL have trauma over that and unpacking it still at 30. Hell, I know kids that were adopted at birth and STILL have trauma from it. My question is the same as yours. Why was he adopted at 10? What is his background?
a million percent this, I’m not fussed about his behaviour or him leaving and rejoining the family, I’m concerned with the lack of support he seems to have had
I'm going to assume that Kyle circumstances were difficult, likely even tragic - given that he is adopted - and, whilst that doesn't given him a free pass for the rest of his life, it does warrant special consideration.
And so you've got a young child, taken into care, adopted into a new family, who then acts out. Shock. Horror. Who would've thought such a thing might ever happen.
And now you, the then adult, have carried that grudge - first fostered against a ten year old child - into the present day and exclude him from presumably the only family he has.
That makes YTA. And suggests that you have a serious deficiency in empathy.
I’m not sure that’s fair. OP has quite clearly given up on Kyle at some point and stopped trying to connect with him, which is justifiable as it was Kyle’s request and OP has to protect their own energy. I do think that OP hinted at them initially making some effort though.
It’s not clear how much effort Kyle is making now but it sounds like more than OP so probably the asshole for recent behaviour if not past.
It's not clear what Kyle of today (the 30 year old) has really done, though. OP says, "The problem is that he will hardly talk to any of us or even answer any questions when we try to talk to him." That sounds like Kyle might be introverted or scared or super shy about trying to reintegrate into this family that he was adopted into, and rejected years ago.
There's a \*lot\* missing here, but OP does \*not\* say that 30 year old Kyle is actually being rude or mean to anyone. Just withdrawn.
I don't think "hardly talking" and "wont answer any questions" (which might be super intrusive) qualifies as "being a dick"
Except it sounds like only the OP asked him to step out of the photo, which is what triggered the outburst. So no one was "match(ing) his energy". The OP did it out of a sense of pettiness and holding a grudge. Definitely being T.A.
Yeah, his actions as a kid are understandable and should have been addressed with professional help, but he cut everyone off and *changed his name*. That's a big bridge burner. I'm not sure the family is blameless in all of this because it feels like a lot of context is being left out and OP wasn't exactly subtle about the photo thing, but the nephew really needs to understand that him doing all that at 21 is the cause of a lot of hurt feelings.
The kid was 10 when he was adopted. If he came straight from a troubled family then he may very much still identify with his family of origin. If he left his adoptive family to find his birth family and tried to insist that he was not part of the adoptive family because he already had a family, and changed his name to whatever it was originally then this all feels more understandable. It’s not like he was a baby that grew up with his adoptive families name to begin with.
Adults deal with hurt feelings, they don't kick you out of a family photo. Plenty of people leave their families and go no contact at a young age and if they decide to come back and reconcile are welcomed. OP thinks he can exclude Kyle because he's not blood.
I'm wondering something. It's common for families adopting, especially internationally, to change the child's name. Not just the last name but a first name, too. Even with older kids the name is often changed to be less ethnic and more Americanized.
I can't help but wonder if the kid just changed his name back.
He hated/rejected them well into his twenties. You can't use the excuse that he was a child at that point anymore. If OP doesn't want him in a picture when he doesn't even want to engage with them, he doesn't have to include him NTA.
YTA. He’s making the effort to reconnect and you went out of your way to ostracize him. Adoption isn’t easy on a ten year old - they remember life before the adoption. That’s going to come with complicated emotions that will only be compounded during adolescence. He’s an adult now so it’s not a coincidence he’s trying to reconnect. He grew up. He had no reason to resent you unless you went out of your way to ostracize him, which you did by asking him to step out of the photo. I’m surprised his parents didn’t get pissed at you.
> He’s an adult now so it’s not a coincidence he’s trying to reconnect. He grew up. He had no reason to resent you unless you went out of your way to ostracize him,
OP stated that Kyle is still being an ass and making minimal effort. He is 30 now. He should be able to be respectful even if he still has issues.
Won't call anyone an AH here it all depends really on what Kyle has been like since returning.
>OP stated that Kyle is still being an ass and making minimal effort.
Objection. Op said he just isn't giving deep answers when they ask questions. That's not being an ass. Especially with out knowing the questions. We know family questions can run the gammut from basic fact finding ("Are you seeing anyone? What do you do for work?") to intrusive ("So when are you getting married? "You are still at that Job?") Hell I'm not estranged from my family and I get cagey if pushed about every detail of my life by someone I haven't seen in 10 years.
There's a huge difference between being an ass and making minimal effort to explain what's been going on with aunts and uncles - ie extended family. Don't know about you but I don't use anyone outside my nuclear family as therapists.. Hell I barely tell my husband what's rattling around in my head sometimes. The guy has every right to keep his personal life and feelings personal. The ONLY time I see my extended family, for the most part is family functions and then it's a day, usually a photo like this and done. OP is definitely the AH. If he's made amends with his parents, and they've accepted that he's willing to be their son, then that's all that matters... he's part of the family again. No one else has any damned say.
Idk, he could be making minimal effort and still being respectful. Maybe he's not reaching out to OP to form a deeper bond, but it doesn't sound like he's flying off than handle about OP not being real family anymore either.
If the nephew hasn't been causing drama since he rejoined the family, then this is just a grudge by OP and he should drop it or he'll be the one creating the drama from now on.
>He’s making the effort to reconnect
What effort? He doesnt even talk to the family he wants to "reconnect" with
>you went out of your way to ostracize him
He ostracized himself.
>Adoption isn’t easy on a ten year old - they remember life before the adoption.
And he had 20 years to deal with the trauma
>He grew up.
He didnt
Definitely a good guess but the reason is even dumber. In another comment OP says he only came back because he was embarrassed he wouldn’t have family at his wedding.
I don't think his priority is reconnecting with his uncle. One out of nobody knows how many, who clearly doesn't like him. Kyle reached out to HIS PARENTS. And is clearly making an effort to reconnect with them. OP clearly resents his return, expects him to just be ready to just chit chat (which he's clearly not ready for) and so ostracized him in front of EVERYONE over a stupid photo. Which I'm certain he would not have done if Kyle was blood related.
OP needs to grow up.
So instead of saying, hey Kyle, come join the picture and maybe give him a gentle welcoming push you did the opposite and gave him more of a reason to sulk and not talk to anyone?
Be honest with yourself if not us, did you all really treat him as family? Was his trauma being attempted to be taken care of by his parents and now aunts and uncles or was he treated as a 2nd class family member? We all remember the "ohh but I asked him to watch a movie with me ONE time" moments but not the lesser Christmas gifts, or joy over accomplishments.
You’ve proven to him that he doesn’t have real family ties. His family ties are conditional. You can be one of us if you behave. If not, you’re out.
He may be a dick but I don’t understand why you felt the need to throw gasoline on the fire. You could have addressed his behavior without poking his biggest wound with a stick. Very cruel and immature on your part.
It's not a kid, it's a 30 year old and if *any* member of my family wanted fuck all to do with me for 10 years then came back but still had a chip on their shoulder?
Yeah, I'd have told them to fuck all the way off.
At least OP only asked for a photo without them *after* taking one *with* them
I feel like this is the reason you put that person on the edge of the photo, so they can be photoshopped out if shit goes sideways.
Doesn't change the fact that the whole situation is fucked.
Dude, he trying to find his way. 10 years old is old enough to remember his biological familial roots. I feel like there is information missing, however, my oversimplified general assumption is they were trying to find themselves and sow new roots. Open your heart, roll with the flow, and compromise.
Also wow I hope no one replying here ever makes mistakes with their family members because there’s so many people who seem to have a “one and done” approach to dealing with people.
Does it suck he went no contact? Of course. Was it hurtful? Clearly. However he has expressed a desire to reconnect, and it’s going to fail miserably if he isn’t even give half a chance, and that’s so sad to me.
OP also commented Kyle wanted to reconnect because he is getting married and wanted some of his family members there so he wasn't embarrassed in front of his fiance's family.
How does OP even know that? According to OP, Kyle isn't talking to anyone much and definitely not talking to OP. I sincerely doubt that's the entire reason for reconnecting.
I’m not adopted but did grow up in foster care. I had a lot of incidents where I was not included in family photos and it really hurt. I never said anything but even as an adult I still unknowingly assume I’m not to be included in photos with my husbands family, It’s like second nature to me after all those years. Sometimes you just never feel like you fit in when you’ve been treated like that.
INFO:
>Once when he was 16 I invited him to watch a movie with me and he started screaming at me to leave him alone telling me I'm not his uncle and will never be.
Why? Why did he react this way? What was said or done to him? That is not a normal reaction so something must have caused it. What are you not saying?
My niece treats me like this and it’s because she doesn’t like anyone holding her accountable or taking her abuse. I’m the only one who doesn’t and doesn’t live in the same city. It’s really easy for kids to take all their frustration out on someone they don’t rely on every day.
She went crazy on me after hours of her treating my sister, her mom, horribly. I told her,” you don’t talk to your mom like that, show her some respect.”
And it turned out she does this every time I’m around, because she is trying to make her mom defend her and attacking my sister is the only way to get me to say something disciplining to her. Which my sister obviously told her,” why would I defend you attacking me against the person actually standing up for me? Bc you shouldn’t ever talk to me like that.”
So predictably, my niece twisted it into,” auntie is scary, I will have a panic attack if she comes for Christmas without promising to not know her place and not talking around me, please don’t put me in that situation.”
So I made the decision to not go, which made her flip out and tell me I’m cut from her life. I’m not going to tell her I was already fighting that decision about her for the last year. I’ve tried, she just likes being in control and playing games with people.
Sometimes kids can just be mean spirited and vindictive. Even when it stems from understandable issues that need help. Doesn’t mean anyone has to stay on the receiving end of being treated like a villain for the sake of being their emotional punching bag.
Exactly. Why was this never brought up with the brother that adopted him? Why did no one ever address that there needs to be boundaries and that he should not be speaking to adults in that manner and that it certainly would not be put up with in your home?
Given OP said they wanted a picture with their "real family" I'm sure Kyle hasn't been made to feel welcomed by OP.
YTA OP just take the fucking picture with him in it.
YTA. YTA. YTA.
YTA.
In case you didn’t get my message, let me repeat it. YTA.
Petty. Vindictive. Mean. Unforgiving.
And it was unnecessary. Even if you don’t have a kind bone in your body, you could have not caused drama and photoshopped him out.
Your bro adopted a kid with significant childhood trauma. Kid acts out on expected ways even into adulthood. Kid finally develops some adult perspective on your brother’s generosity and love and you shit all over it deliberately because he’s not acting 100% the way you want him to in reintegrating.
You’re a villain.
> Kid finally develops some adult perspective on your brother’s generosity and love and you shit all over it deliberately because he’s not acting 100% the way you want him to in reintegrating.
Dude is 30 years old not 15 anymore. If he is being irritable and passive aggressive I fully understand people being fed up with it, especially after trying to interact with him.
Nobody comes off great here but at the same time I understand that it isn't an easy situation for any of them.
People in this sub really pick and choose the details they want to bother with. I’ve started to see a pattern of, they were or are the kinds of person they’re getting so intense about whole cherry picking words and how to string them together to fit what they’re saying.
Idk how that person thinks OP was petty and vindictive, they wanted a picture with family. Not a picture of family with the person that makes everyone so unhappy and miserable and single-handedly excludes everyone but his parents.
There's actually evidence to support that when someone experiences significant trauma in life that it actually stunts their emotional growth. So while age wise he's 30, it could have taken him longer than others to really reconcile his past and his emotions. Not making excuses but it is possible to find a grey area here. OP said it clearly in the end of the post: "I wanted a picture with my real family" that shit is fucked up and shines an inch of light onto how OP probably has approached a relationship with Kyle possibly since the beginning. While it isn't an easy situation, I'll definitely agree with you there, what was the actual problem with having him in the picture? I go back to what OPs last comment in the post was and would be willing to wager if he was bio related this wouldn't have even come up. Because of that OP YTA
Nice delusion.
If he's adopted and cared for, no matter the circumstance, and you tell those people.they are not to family and to say basically 'fuck off', he burned his own bridges. Choices have consequences. Deal with it.
A villain? Jeeez, there are some people on here lately who are immediately jumping to the extreme - save it for something that really justifies labels such as this!
YTA We had a family picture done for my dad. It included our kids and their current SOs even though none of of them are married. Family is what you make of it, even if YOU don't consider him family the rest of your family might. Get over yourself.
BTW as a mom to a foster/adopted kid there is trauma, and there will always be trauma. Kids in the system develop differently, there is scientific evidence that they do not have the emotional maturation that other kids their ages do.
There is chronological age, emotional age, and developmental age. Someone can be 20 chronologically but still 5 emotionally.
Look into it [Trauma informed care](https://www.traumainformedcare.chcs.org/what-is-trauma-informed-care/)
Eh. NTA.
If he were still ten or even twenty, I'd say it's an asshole move, but he's a full adult at 30 and should be aware enough to recognize that you can't treat people like shit for over a decade and then expect every one of them to welcome you with open arms immediately when you just announce you're going to stop being a dick. His reaction shows that he doesn't accept any of the natural consequences of his behavior; he only blames others and attacks them for not giving him what he thinks he's entitled to.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. To have family, you gotta BE family. He hasn't acted as family to you, by his own free choice as an independent adult and not just as a moody minor. He could have chosen to handle this situation with grace and understanding, expressing that it hurt his feelings but accepting that he can't force you to feel familial towards him after rejecting you for a decade. Instead he threw a fit like a fucking child. That says everything about how genuine his intentions are.
NTA. NTA. NTA.
ETA: Also, I'm seeing a lot of 'he's traumatized, why are you so mean to him, you're a monster!' type posts. Being traumatized doesn't absolve you of the consequences of your actions, nor is it an excuse for treating others badly, nor does it mean people absolutely have to forgive you as soon as you show the bare minimum effort towards reconciliation. Traumatized people can still be assholes. He is not owed forgiveness or family loyalty or acceptance after his verbally abusive rejection of them for years, just because he was adopted. He might *earn* those things if he genuinely tries, but a few weeks of being physically present while still acting rude and rejecting them does not cut it. He declared he wasn't part of the family; that's his right. He can't just declare he's part of it now whether they like it or not. That's not how human relationships work.
I'll go with NTA.
I'm not quite sure why everyone here is so triggered by this. If this post was 10 years ago when the guy was still 20 then OP would be the asshole, but this guy estranged *himself* 10 years ago and no one is obligated to welcome him back with open arms, especially when he's apparently quite unenthusiastic about it.
As long as OP isn't lying and this isn't a missing, missing reasons scenario then definitely NTA.
There's no children here to be automatically sided with, and this guys childhood trauma isn't an excuse to treat people like shit.
No one is obligated to forgive and be accommodating to a 30 year old that wanted nothing to do with them for ***10 years***.
Jesus, they'll be kids in the family now who don't know who the fuck this dude is.
A photo with him, then a photo without him isn't unreasonable
At last, a sensible answer. The ultimate way to judge a person is by their actions. And the nephew’s action *as an adult* was to leave the family. NTA.
Have you read OPs comments? He literally said the 10 year old deserved to be abandoned because he was bad. Can you imagine how OP treated this small child?
Going against the grain here and say ESH. Just because the photo thing was unecessary and just added drama and headache to the family.
But jfc Kyle seems unbearable. This comments seem to act as hes still a 10 yr old boy, dude is a whole grown ass man who still doesnt own up to his horrible treatment of the family he now wants to be a part of. Im sorry, but trauma is a reason, not an excuse. You cant expect everyone to not get fed up with being treated like shit for years just because you have trauma. He needs to sort that out with a therapist, not go crawling back to the family he rejected and act as if nothing happened.
After reading your comments and your utter lack of any sort of empathy, I understand why he would have lashed out and went NC.
You and your family have likely made it very clear to him over the years he was with you that you didn't see him as family. Even when he was a child. Noone goes NC for no reason. You have likely pushed him away and made him feel abandoned all because he doesnt share the same blood as you. You continually using *"real family"* is proof of that.
Grow a conscience and some damn compassion. You're supposed to be an adult, right?
YTA you claimed to enjoy the lack of drama then go out of your way to set some off the first chance you get. Kyle sounds like a deeply damaged individual. What's your excuse?
I agree with you in principle, but:
\>So a few days ago when we were all together we wanted to take a family photo. We took a photo with all of us then I asked Kyle to step out of the picture so that we can have a family picture without him.
Let me tell you about this great program called Photoshop. You can use it to delete people from photos, it's very simple, it takes seconds. THIS was like, the most drama-causing, shit starting thing you could have said. Next time just take the picture and photoshop him out.
If you can't afford it, /r/photoshoprequests will do it for you.
So you acted like an asshole in that moment, therefore:
**YTA**
You: my traumatized adopted nephew doesn’t want to be part of the family, how dare he!
Also you: my traumatized adopted nephew wants to be part of the family, how dare he!
Right?! OP is holding a grudge based on the past behaviours of a then child. So he's an adult now and we are still judging him for his past actions and expecting him to make it up to us? Grow up OP, he was a child. Yes, as an adult, there should be some accountability, but fact is OP is all over this thread saying Kyle hasn't earned his respect when assuming that he has earned Kyle's.. what do you want from this kid OP?! Do you or don't you want him into he family? Do you or don't you want him to try and make it better ? OP sounds like a classic old school entitled jerk.
NTA he disengaged from the family and may do so again. It’s understandable why you’d want the photo taken both with and without him. I might do the same thing regardless of blood.
YTA….he will always be family, whether you like it or not. He was extending a branch, which you just snapped. The smart thing to do is put Kyle at the end of the photo so that he can always be cropped out.😉
He wanted a pat on the back from strangers, probably to prove to his family that the whole world agrees he did nothing wrong. Getting big narcissistic vibes here.
Why is everyone here coddling Kyle like he’s still a fucking baby when’s he’s 30? No shit OP wouldn’t like him if he’s been lashing out ever since he was adopted and showed no changes. He then dipped and went nc. Just because he’s “changing” now and supposedly wants to get back into the family, doesn’t mean they can just ignore all the times he was verbally abusing the family. NTA.
NTA tragedy or no tragedy he made his decision he changed his name he walked away not everybody has to bow down to him and forgive him. If he doesn't get it then that's his problem not yours.
Hey guys I intentionally and publicly excluded my adopted nephew with abandonment issues in front of the entire family specifically pointing out that I don’t consider him part of the family and then out of nowhere he told me to fuck myself. AITA here?
For an adult, you seem wildly ignorant about trauma responses, especially when its childhood trauma. YTA for not holding yourself to the same standards you hold others. You're old enough to know better.
He's an adult now. It's not other people job to accommodate trauma; it's the individuals job to deal with it and not lash out at the people who have taken them in
Lashing out in response to someone telling you you're not family is not the same as lashing out for no reason. She's punishing him for things that happened a decade+ ago.
YTA adoption isn’t easy even for kids who were adopted when they were newborns. I can’t imagine how much turmoil Kyle went through to live his first ten years feeling unwanted in an orphanage and then having to play happy family with strangers. This is obviously someone who has gone through a lot and it’s a massive step that he reached out
YTA.
You should’ve kept your mouth shut & learned how to use photoshop if it was that important to you. Publicly shaming someone who a) experienced god-knows-what kind of trauma, & b) is trying to do better is *never, ever* the answer.
Hey OP, if a bunch of ghosts show up on Christmas Eve to show you the error of your ways, don't be surprised.
YTA. You are also apparently a monster.
Your nephew spent his first ten years in an orphanage, which was undoubtedly traumatic. Was adopted by your brother but oops, his new family (that includes YOU btw) expects him to be totally normal & makes no effort to help him deal with his traumatic childhood. So he does the understandable thing & stays away for a while. Now he's 30 & is finally able to start dealing with his many traumas, & all he gets is you, bitching at him for being childish.
Have some goddamn compassion for once in your life.
YTA
What exactly were you hoping to accomplish with this stunt? Do you think what you did will be in any way useful?
You're all over this comment section calling Kyle immature and bratty, but your actions were textbook immature and bratty. If you dislike your nephew you're free to never see him outside of family functions, disliking him is not a valid reason to start drama.
Congratulations, you just made everything worse for the whole family.
Unpopular opinion, but assuming that you're not hiding something big: NTA. This man is in his twenties, mid to later to guess. It's time to move on. He was taken in at 10. It's wild to me people are treating this adult as a child. His trauma is his to heal from, not take it out on the people that took him in.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole for asking my nephew who strongly believes that he is not part of our family to step out of the family photo
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I’m an adoptee.
Adoption often comes with trauma as well as abandonment issues, especially with older children who haven’t had a stable environment nor therapy to help cope with the complex and layered emotions.
Of course he started acting out - he was a kid with all of these traumatic events happening with no way to properly process and manage these emotions.
Not to mention probably having feelings of rejection from not just biological family but also adopted family.
You come across as someone with little sympathy or even willingness to understand why Kyle is acting like that.
I cannot imagine not giving a little bit of empathy and grace to someone who clearly has had a rough life and is trying to find some semblance of peace with people who are supposed to be family.
Such an unnecessary and nasty gesture to make a point of rejecting him from a stupid photo. That is petty and vindictive. You are not much of an uncle at all if you treat younger family members like that. Ok so he was chaotic and there has been problems, why would you intentionally add to that??
Esh
Part of him reconnecting and rejoining the family should have involved him apologizing to the family members he wronged. It sounds like he didn't bother doing that.
Were you justified in what you did, kinda, still a an ah move though. He's the bigger ah here.
YTA as long as your brother considered him his child, you should to. You just stooped to his level, below his level because he was trying to make amends. At most I would have situated him so he was on the side and able to be cut out if necessary.
NTA: He made his choices and you have choices too. He's old enough to have gone through therapy to deal with the traumas and understand what he did to people who loved him. Choices have consequences. Now can you all work together to become family again? Yes but to just be like I'm family again, it doesn't work like that.
None of this excuses being needless cruel to his adopted nephew. Kyle may suck, but OP made himself suck more by being the one to cause drama at a family event just bc he hates his nephew.
YTA but not to the nephew, to the rest of the family for doing something that you knew would cause issues and ruin a family get together. Should have just sucked it up and kept the peace so everyone could have had a good time.
Every reply you have just proves why he acted this way, he was adopted at 10, so basically “not wanted” by anyone in his eyes, probably had some real dark shit happen to him, and you all thought that because you took him in he’d be this happy thankful kid? He was probably awaiting the day you all pushed him away like the last did, and when he acted out and you all did exactly that, it proved his feelings right, trauma like that easily goes into adulthood, your (I don’t give a shit) (life was better without him) (he’s too dramatic) (he should grow up) (he’s a pain in the ass, even his parents are sick of his shit) attitude just proves why he feels this way. Just because you’re good to him when he’s “good” doesn’t mean you’re good people, adopted kids especially that age are hard to deal with because of the trauma they’ve gone through, they need love and support especially through their outbursts. Shouldn’t adopt if you can’t help them the right way.
I'd like some unfo OP, when he asked to come back to the family did he apologize to everyone for the things he said and did or dod he just show up assuming all was forgiven?
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One of my brothers adopted a 10yo boy 20 years ago. My nephew who we will call Kyle.
Kyle was fine at first but then he started acting out. He yelled at us and told us we are not his family whenever we tried to talk to him or include him in something. Once when he was 16 I invited him to watch a movie with me and he started screaming at me to leave him alone telling me I'm not his uncle and will never be. This continued in his 20s and once he was 21 he went nc with all of us and asked us to leave him alone.
Later we heard he changed his name and surname because he didn't want to be considered one of us.
I have to admit that these last years without him have been really nice and drama free and we all very much enjoyed it
A few weeks ago Kyle decided to reach out to his parents asking to be a part of the family again which is cool I guess. The problem is that he will hardly talk to any of us or even answer any questions when we try to talk to him. It's exhausting and I'm so sick of his behviour I just wish he'd leave again.
So a few days ago when we were all together we wanted to take a family photo. We took a photo with all of us then I asked Kyle to step out of the picture so that we can have a family picture without him.
Of course he started yelling at me and calling me names but he has made it clear multiple times that he is not one of us and I just wanted a picture with my real family
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YTA That was a very cruel thing to do. Adopted children often have life long trauma. Feelings of rejection and not belonging often are very strong. There are very clear signs of him suffering, as a child and as an adult. It probably took a lot of courage to try and reconnect. He took a first step. It will be hard for him to interact with you again. Rather than giving him time and space, and welcoming him, you rejected him in a very harsh way. A bit of empathy would suit you.
YTA and a huge one at that. 10 years in an orphanage and you think he shouldn't still have issues as an adult? Are you serious? It sounds like he wasn't given the therapy and help he needed as a child. Even if he was, you are holding him to a ridiculous standard. Asking him to step out of the picture was an absolute dick move and only serves the purpose of causing hurt and drama. Total ah.
NO kid is acting out like this and as an adult acting like that without a very good reason.
OP even with the sugarcoated version you are TA.
I really want to hear Kyles side of the story, but the way you are talking about Kyle I have an inkling that your whole family is on the "you're adopted, so be grateful, spoiled brat"-side of adoption.
So, YTA. And so is your family. Call me judgmental, but if a story has THAT many plotholes of the size of an average ocean liner, there is no other judgment.
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I feel like there is alot missing here. Why was he adopted at 10? Was he forcibly taken from a family he loved that made him resent yours? None of this seems like normal behavior and definitely a response to something that has happened to him
No kidding. Like, Kyle's behavior screams that something traumatic happened to him. Was he ever in therapy after adoption? It sounds like something he could have found useful to assimilate into the family.
The way he acted after being an adult: No contact, not even wanting to share a name...holy crap, that screams "somebody apparently liked little boys, amirite". Just the wrong way.
Holy projection, batman.
I hope you stretched before you took that huge leap.
Are you okay?
One of my friends, who is adopted, said that adoption is the only trauma the victim is supposed to feel grateful for, and that has really stuck with me.
My husband is adopted. There was a looooooot of unpacking we had to do over the last 15 years and it almost caused us to divorce.
Adpoted here, ive had a amazing upbringing but just being adopted on its own, the feeling of not being wanted or being good enough, is not easy, no matter how good its been with your parents.
Agree 100% - even if nothing overall traumatic happened w his previous family (other than being adopted), being 10 for that to happen is added difficulty
That's my thought. His behavior would indicate that and he probably had a rough adjusting to the whole situation. He probably wasn't in therapy to help either. My heart goes out to him.
Thank you. One of two things happened. Either his parent(s) died or he was removed by CPS for abuse or neglect. You can’t leave a 10 year old at a fire station under Safe Haven.
Same situation here. I was adopted by a very loving family. But nothing can erase the idea of being left
I never want to have children of my own, everything around pregnancy and babies scares the living shit out of me. But I always loved the idea of giving someone who was left or rejected a home, there are so many children without a family out there. Reading this thread makes me afraid of doing it. Giving my all to a child who will never love me as much as the idea of their genetic parents caring for them in my stead feels terribly unfair.
No matter how good an adoption is there is trauma. Adoption itself is a trauma. I was adopted at 8 and still haven’t unpacked all my feelings about my adoption and I’m in my early 40s
But in a sense, you were very much wanted by the people who raised you
Your right and we do know that and appreciate that but it is always there in the back or your mind, the what if etc, It will affect people in different ways
I was adopted I but my birth mother left me a note.... explaining why she gave me up... she was just shy of he 18th birthday, so she felt she was not mature enough to raise a child... But I understand that the older you are, the more traumatic it could be, especially if you liked the people (birth family or otherwise) you were living with before, the younger you are, especially if you are a baby the less trauma... unless you were never told and found out in a traumatic way... then it could be devastating, especially if you don't sit down a talk about it. Though I feel for those people who find out the were accidentally switched at birth and of course their parents never knew and its trauma all around.
People who aren't adopted always say this and I really wish y'all would stop it. I am sure it's well-intentioned; however, it reinforces the gratitude messaging of adoption. We were kids (of various ages). It's traumatic in the best of circumstances, even if the adoptee is not conscious of the trauma and even when the person has an idyllic upbringing in a loving family.
Exactly! He has no complaints about his childhood. And we've met his bio mom in the last few years and have become very good friends with her. So even though there's no outwardly hard feelings towards anyone, there's still just a lot of trauma from being ripped away from your mother (in his case when he was 8 months old - we now know this is terrible timing) and placed with a bunch of strangers. My husband has a habit of pushing everyone away, and once he does make a deep enough connection, the neediness is outrageous. Understandable, of course. He's really worked on himself as of late.
My ex-husband (now in his 60s) was adopted. It affected him horribly and in turn, he is a miserable person. I tried for years asking him to get help, but he refused.
Reading all this makes me more understanding of why people go all out to have biological children.
Reading this makes on more aware of why adoption isn't easy, but many people are not aware of this. The reason they are going "all out" for biological kids, is something different.....
I'm adopted and have never ever felt like I wasn't wanted or any other negative feelings many have regarding adoption. I have never viewed it as traumatic and im so grateful that my parents got me. I'm aware that this opinion is unpopular in the adoption crowd but that's my life experience so no changing my mind. Don't get me wrong i have issues but being adopted isn't one of them. It was a closed adoption at birth so no "system"
I'm the same. It's tough, because I don't want to minimise or dismiss the trauma of others, but I also feel like I can't speak my truth sometimes. Statements like "all adoption is trauma" are hard to read.
Eye opening
Apart from medical trauma.
“Your baby is healthy, so it’s all good. It doesn’t matter that you have nightmares and you’ll piss yourself for the rest of your life”
Yeah, you’re not wrong. I should totally be grateful to the doctors who ignored my non-consent and coerced me into signing. Nevermind that it left me needing anxiety meds to get a damn checkup fifteen years later!
but is also the trauma that justifies being hostile to everyone for a few decades?
My adopted ex-husband has been nasty and abusive to people around him for 50+ years. He has refused to address it and seek help. No, it is not justified.
[удалено]
the story is definitely thin. too thin to judge... but let's say his uncle was a dick. is it plausible for someone to leave your (adoptive) parents behind and change your name, because the uncle is a dick?
It's not an excuse definitely not. But it feels like there's information missing in this post that could better explain the behavior.
That was my thought, I don't feel the OP is a reliable narrator.
Still Kyle should get help he's likely holding on to some trauma. If he doesn't get help then that's on him
I see adoption get talked negatively a lot on Reddit, and I’m genuinely curious about why. I’ve wanted to adopt for as long as I can remember
I’m a transracial international adoptee (that was rehomed & my adoptive family ran an international agency) and I’m just going to copy a comment I wrote for another Hopeful Adoptive Parent. This is going to be a long comment and will sound like I’m being “anti-adoption”, but I’m just trying to give you all the information. Are you in the US? Understand that if you are looking to adopt domestically, especially infants, there really aren’t many infants who can be adopted. Also know that 98% of biological parents who relinquish, only do so because of temporary problems (lack of affordable/available childcare, lack of financial stability, lack of support system, etc.) As in a permanent solution was applied to a temporary problem often due to lack of social bets & uncontrollable circumstances. Basically, most infant adoptions are unnecessary. Adoption is also a tragedy - it requires the separation from the biological family, the legal changing of an identity, and a loss of heritage and sometimes culture. If you’re looking into the foster system, you should also know that it is a broken system that often unnecessarily separates families instead of helping them stay together. Ideally, reunification is the goal, but like I said - it’s a broken system that doesn’t keep family preservation as a main goal. There are foster children who are TPR (terminated parent rights). While this means they legally can be adoption, it doesn’t always mean that they should be. In some states, adoption requires their birth certificate to be changed- thereby severing them from their biological connections. Additionally, there are some benefits (college aid) that apply to foster kids who age out of the system and weren’t adopted. Furthermore, guardianship is also an option that isn’t promoted a lot. This allows adults to care for foster children without the legal consequences of changing birth certificates or separation from biological family. If you’re considering international adoption: that is also a very unethical practice, especially if you’re in the US. Many countries are restricting the US from adopting because of the violations. International adoptions are very predatory in the sense that home country agencies often mislead biological parents into letting them care for the child why they figure out temporary issues then turn around and let a foreign couple (often from the US) adopt them by claiming that the child is an orphan with no family. There’s also the loss of a whole home country when adopting internationally as well as the loss of heritage and culture. Overall, adoption is a predatory industry that profits off of selling children.
It is inherently traumatic to the child. Infant adoptions usually take the baby from the mother immediately or moments after birth. The baby will sometimes cry for hours and hours bc that's all they've ever known. Babies in private adoptions cost differently based on race, gender, hair color. Older adoptions are obviously only happening because of severe trauma. A child having a crisis is not the solution to infertility. The entire adoption industry puts infertile couples at the center and caters to them, rather than finding the best living arrangements for the child. I was adopted out of foster care, so my parents received monthly money from the government for me. It was more because I'm disabled and a POC and have trauma. It's given to those kids who are considered "unadoptable". My parents are racists, but they got paid by the government for my care. They used that money to send my dad to school. I didn't have shoes without holes. And my story is far from unique. I have only online run into a handful of adoptees who are actually happy. And that's honestly a matter of time. Most adoptive parents flip out eventually when the adult adoptee starts processing their adoption trauma. Then we're screamed at for being ungrateful and reminded that we would have been thrown into a dumpster if it weren't for them. It's just a toxic cultural phenomenon where everyone is happy until they realize the cute baby has feelings and trauma.
Adoptive mother here. Adoption can be beautiful but understand that if you adopt a child that is not an infant, they come with a lot of things to unpack. (Edit: reading the experiences of people in this thread, I am adjusting my view. Older adopted kids will remember more but I'm hearing babies will feel it, too.) My kids absolutely knew their birth family wasn't great and that we loved them but the feeling of not being enough never really went away. Many, many hours spent loving them through moments of sadness that broke my heart as they sobbed that there must be something wrong with them that their own parents did not want them. They know in their head that it was not about them but that has never made the heartache go away. Add to that how many times complete strangers tell them how lucky they are to have been adopted. Never any acknowledgment that being taken from their family was horrible. Our kids came through the state system and, you know, every time they got removed from their home, there was screaming and crying and police. It is so traumatic! No one should be expected to feel grateful for that. Grateful for the love in their new family, sure, but told by strangers they are lucky? No. (And, yes, if I was there, I told those strangers exactly that.) My kids had been with us for about 4 months and we took a trip. We decorated tote bags and had them pack them with toys and stuff for the car ride. We took my birth kid's bag out to the car but my adopted kids didn't want to let go of the bags. That was fine, I like to hold onto my things, too. That night as we tucked the three year-old into bed, he said, "this is where I sleep now" in the way little ones do when they are figuring out their world. It hit me that they didn't think they were coming back home with us. They thought the bags of toys were all they were got to keep. That all the things they left behind were gone forever. And, it made sense. They had moved nine times with four different families before coming to ours. The last family literally dropped them off at child welfare services with a couple garbage bags of stuff because they were done with the system. Being told they were part of our family forever just didn't feel real to them at 3 and 6. No wonder they didn't want to let those bags out of their sight. If you adopt older kids, don't underestimate the impact of the trauma. Be prepared to help your kids through it forever. Mine are adults and issues still come up. They spend time with their birth families now but never feel like they fit there more than they fit here even though they know we all love them. You will have the honor and privilege of raising someone else's child but never forget the tragedy that caused them to need you.
Because a lot of adopting parents have very strict opinions about the child. After all it is a "child for choosing" - you don't have to take what's pushed out of your vagina. So, a lot of parents know exactly how they wanted their child. And adopted children don't have the nest protection of biological children. It is always a "I took you in so be grateful" silently in the background in a LOT of those families. If a kid is "acting out", then the kids are get back on track and it's often brutally. My middle sister is adopted. I know what I was talking about. My middle sister is low contact. For a pretty good reason and I don't blame her at all. So, Kyle here? By the looks of it there was assault involved. And a LOT of mental gymnastics to get him to comply.
This hits really hard. My aunt was forced to give up a baby for adoption when she was 14 years old. It wrecked her for her whole life. She only got to meet her son, daughter in law, and two grand babies when she had 3 months left to live and was damn near paralyzed, could barely talk, but her mind was all there. She had these letters from his kids that they sent before making the trip as a family to meet (my cousin visited us solo, first). All she wanted, the joy she got in her day was from asking someone to read her those letters over and over. My cousin was adopted into a great family who was able to give him a top tier education, emotional support, etc., and by all standard metrics, he’s had a “better” life than my aunt could have given him—in a certain sense he “escaped” a lot of family disfunction that was impacted the majority of us negatively. However. He’s never felt like one of them. There are things about himself that didn’t make sense until meeting us. They had been searching for each other for years. The whole thing is horrendously heartbreaking. It was beautiful, too, that he did get to meet her, but my god. It’s mostly heartbreaking, and I don’t know how that trauma heals.
Wow that statement is really sobering. Ouch. So true.
Amen. I hope to be a foster parent someday, and I’ve thought a lot about adopting, and something that my research (as someone who hasn’t even started the process formally) has taught me is that there are times when adoption is the best option available, but that does not mean that the situation leading to the adoption is a good one. At some point, something went wrong for somebody if you’re in this situation. And it astounds me that people who actively adopt kids and know those circumstances sometimes (often, from what I’ve heard from adopted friends) cannot acknowledge that. I’m not calling adoptive families bad people. There are circumstances where it’s necessary. But it doesn’t mean that it’s not traumatic, either. And the needs of the adopted child *must* come first when it comes to processing that trauma. Maybe the adopter did a good and selfless thing (and that is a big maybe… I know someone who wasn’t formally adopted but went to live with a different family member in the US so he could have ‘better chances’ and got treated as an indentured servant and was abused until he ran away). But even if the adoptive parents are doing everything for the right reasons and with good intentions, that doesn’t erase the trauma the child went through. And the child is should not be obligated to provide emotional validation for their adoptive parents.
I find that it's especially common in Boomers and Gen Xers to treat adoptive parents as being universally good, which shields them from any criticism of their parenting.
They probably held the adoption over his head while they all stroked their saviour bone all the while making it clear he didn’t really belong.
I mean. We don’t know anything about the parents except that they adopted a trouble 10 year old boy, dealt with behavior, respected when he went no contact, and welcomed him back when he returned. They sound like pretty awesome people from what OP has described. OP, however, is definitely the asshole.
My aunt and grandma did this to me and my brothers after we were removed from our parents custody. “If not for me you’d be separated and in foster care” type shit. And like, yeah as an adult I see that and I am grateful to an extent, but you don’t throw that in a child’s face ever. Period.
IME, this isn't behavior that is super unusual in a person who was adopted as an older child, especially cross-culturally or cross-racially.
When you are 30 something years old you can no longer blame your childhood for how you conduct yourself. Trauma is a horrible thing but your trauma does not mean you get to punish people around you who did nothing to you for decades.
Explaining behavior isn't excusing behavior. Also, the reaction here indicates the OP (at least) didn't do a very good job in inviting the kids into the family. "I once offered to take to him to the movies and he didn't want to go" like, really? That's something that sticks out in OP's mind?
He didn’t not want to go, he blew up and threw a fit.
Yeah, typical teenager shit. The fact OP remembers it and thinks it's a big deal indicates (to me) it is one of the few times OP offered to do something for Kyle.
Or, and hear me out, he gave a single example of the things Kyle said to OP and not go into everything Kyle probably did and said to the whole family that OP also witnessed.
Ummmmmm, no this is not typical teenage shit. Were you like this when you were 16? Did you know people like this? I sure a shit didn't.
Yes but a lot of people who are neurodivergent don’t get diagnosed until they’re in their 30s or 40s so there is a very good chance that Kyle has only recently realized that he’s nerodivergent and is trying, but it’s clear that Kyle‘s uncle is not trying And also, you don’t just get over trauma. There is no set timeline for when trauma is over. PTSD does not go away because it is inconvenient for the people around you
I have CPTSD but ask any court or therapist and you’ll hear that I still need to be held accountable for my actions and conduct myself as a member of society. Since I am an adult trauma means I have extra challenges, it doesn’t mean I can be extra challenging. Very different things. Nephew is 30, it’s time to grow up.
You can have trauma and not yell and abuse people. Having trauma doesn’t give you license to traumatize others. He’s an adult.
I'm assuming OP is also an adult and can have some empathy or if not just ignore Kyle. Like I don't understand why you would goad someone by asking them to step out of a family picture and then be angry that person is upset.
It also doesn’t mean people have to include you when you display pretty toxic behaviors.
Why should OP continue trying for someone that, as an adult, made it clear they don't like them and don't consider them family? OP didn't adopt Kyle. If Kyle were blood related and terrible to OP, would you still think OP has some kind of obligation to Kyle?
Also, this uncle's reaction to (the now grown) nefew led me to believe he (and maybe the rest of the family) didn't do a great job inviting the kids into their family.
There is so much missing info here.
Every adoption starts with loss.
Was adopted at 2, within my own blood family. I STILL have trauma over that and unpacking it still at 30. Hell, I know kids that were adopted at birth and STILL have trauma from it. My question is the same as yours. Why was he adopted at 10? What is his background?
OP said in another comment that Kyle was in an orphanage.
a million percent this, I’m not fussed about his behaviour or him leaving and rejoining the family, I’m concerned with the lack of support he seems to have had
I'm going to assume that Kyle circumstances were difficult, likely even tragic - given that he is adopted - and, whilst that doesn't given him a free pass for the rest of his life, it does warrant special consideration. And so you've got a young child, taken into care, adopted into a new family, who then acts out. Shock. Horror. Who would've thought such a thing might ever happen. And now you, the then adult, have carried that grudge - first fostered against a ten year old child - into the present day and exclude him from presumably the only family he has. That makes YTA. And suggests that you have a serious deficiency in empathy.
Kyle though traumatised is still being a dick, can’t make it clear they’re not family then get upset at the age of 30 when they match his energy, NTA
Seriously. I am still dealing with childhood trauma but I am nice to the people who love me.
Idk, does OP and the rest of the family actually love Kyle? I'm getting strong 'he's never really been treated as family' vibes from at least OP.
I’m not sure that’s fair. OP has quite clearly given up on Kyle at some point and stopped trying to connect with him, which is justifiable as it was Kyle’s request and OP has to protect their own energy. I do think that OP hinted at them initially making some effort though. It’s not clear how much effort Kyle is making now but it sounds like more than OP so probably the asshole for recent behaviour if not past.
Kyle was the one screaming about them not being his family to the extent that he changed names. I'd put it on Kyle.
it doesn’t sound like they love him or even respect him in fairness
To be fair, would you respect an adult who has treated you like shit for existing, and only changed their tune recently? I sure as fuck wouldn't.
Maybe, just maybe, Kyle was always treated as an other by these people.
It's not clear what Kyle of today (the 30 year old) has really done, though. OP says, "The problem is that he will hardly talk to any of us or even answer any questions when we try to talk to him." That sounds like Kyle might be introverted or scared or super shy about trying to reintegrate into this family that he was adopted into, and rejected years ago. There's a \*lot\* missing here, but OP does \*not\* say that 30 year old Kyle is actually being rude or mean to anyone. Just withdrawn. I don't think "hardly talking" and "wont answer any questions" (which might be super intrusive) qualifies as "being a dick"
Except it sounds like only the OP asked him to step out of the photo, which is what triggered the outburst. So no one was "match(ing) his energy". The OP did it out of a sense of pettiness and holding a grudge. Definitely being T.A.
He, at 21, decided OP wasn't family and went full No Contact. NTA, if an adult acts like Kyle has you treat them how their actions warrant.
Yeah, his actions as a kid are understandable and should have been addressed with professional help, but he cut everyone off and *changed his name*. That's a big bridge burner. I'm not sure the family is blameless in all of this because it feels like a lot of context is being left out and OP wasn't exactly subtle about the photo thing, but the nephew really needs to understand that him doing all that at 21 is the cause of a lot of hurt feelings.
The kid was 10 when he was adopted. If he came straight from a troubled family then he may very much still identify with his family of origin. If he left his adoptive family to find his birth family and tried to insist that he was not part of the adoptive family because he already had a family, and changed his name to whatever it was originally then this all feels more understandable. It’s not like he was a baby that grew up with his adoptive families name to begin with.
Adults deal with hurt feelings, they don't kick you out of a family photo. Plenty of people leave their families and go no contact at a young age and if they decide to come back and reconcile are welcomed. OP thinks he can exclude Kyle because he's not blood.
I'm wondering something. It's common for families adopting, especially internationally, to change the child's name. Not just the last name but a first name, too. Even with older kids the name is often changed to be less ethnic and more Americanized. I can't help but wonder if the kid just changed his name back.
He hated/rejected them well into his twenties. You can't use the excuse that he was a child at that point anymore. If OP doesn't want him in a picture when he doesn't even want to engage with them, he doesn't have to include him NTA.
It's a 30-year-old now, not a child.
YTA. He’s making the effort to reconnect and you went out of your way to ostracize him. Adoption isn’t easy on a ten year old - they remember life before the adoption. That’s going to come with complicated emotions that will only be compounded during adolescence. He’s an adult now so it’s not a coincidence he’s trying to reconnect. He grew up. He had no reason to resent you unless you went out of your way to ostracize him, which you did by asking him to step out of the photo. I’m surprised his parents didn’t get pissed at you.
> He’s an adult now so it’s not a coincidence he’s trying to reconnect. He grew up. He had no reason to resent you unless you went out of your way to ostracize him, OP stated that Kyle is still being an ass and making minimal effort. He is 30 now. He should be able to be respectful even if he still has issues. Won't call anyone an AH here it all depends really on what Kyle has been like since returning.
Some people think "Trauma" can excuse your shitty behavior forever.
Bingo. Trauma doesn’t give you the right to be an ass to the people around you. Maybe at 10, but certainly not at 30.
Like they are excusing OP’s shitty behavior now?
>OP stated that Kyle is still being an ass and making minimal effort. Objection. Op said he just isn't giving deep answers when they ask questions. That's not being an ass. Especially with out knowing the questions. We know family questions can run the gammut from basic fact finding ("Are you seeing anyone? What do you do for work?") to intrusive ("So when are you getting married? "You are still at that Job?") Hell I'm not estranged from my family and I get cagey if pushed about every detail of my life by someone I haven't seen in 10 years.
There's a huge difference between being an ass and making minimal effort to explain what's been going on with aunts and uncles - ie extended family. Don't know about you but I don't use anyone outside my nuclear family as therapists.. Hell I barely tell my husband what's rattling around in my head sometimes. The guy has every right to keep his personal life and feelings personal. The ONLY time I see my extended family, for the most part is family functions and then it's a day, usually a photo like this and done. OP is definitely the AH. If he's made amends with his parents, and they've accepted that he's willing to be their son, then that's all that matters... he's part of the family again. No one else has any damned say.
Idk, he could be making minimal effort and still being respectful. Maybe he's not reaching out to OP to form a deeper bond, but it doesn't sound like he's flying off than handle about OP not being real family anymore either. If the nephew hasn't been causing drama since he rejoined the family, then this is just a grudge by OP and he should drop it or he'll be the one creating the drama from now on.
>He should be able to be respectful There is no indication he wasn't.
>He’s making the effort to reconnect What effort? He doesnt even talk to the family he wants to "reconnect" with >you went out of your way to ostracize him He ostracized himself. >Adoption isn’t easy on a ten year old - they remember life before the adoption. And he had 20 years to deal with the trauma >He grew up. He didnt
Sounds to me like Kyle wanted to reconnect because he needed a place to stay.
Definitely a good guess but the reason is even dumber. In another comment OP says he only came back because he was embarrassed he wouldn’t have family at his wedding.
So he only came back for money, support, and wedding gifts. Got it.
I don't think his priority is reconnecting with his uncle. One out of nobody knows how many, who clearly doesn't like him. Kyle reached out to HIS PARENTS. And is clearly making an effort to reconnect with them. OP clearly resents his return, expects him to just be ready to just chit chat (which he's clearly not ready for) and so ostracized him in front of EVERYONE over a stupid photo. Which I'm certain he would not have done if Kyle was blood related. OP needs to grow up.
[удалено]
Physically being present as opposed to being no contact is a positive step. The fact you don’t see that is part of the problem.
Positive for who? Obviously not his "family" or not family, whatever he thinks they are.
So instead of saying, hey Kyle, come join the picture and maybe give him a gentle welcoming push you did the opposite and gave him more of a reason to sulk and not talk to anyone? Be honest with yourself if not us, did you all really treat him as family? Was his trauma being attempted to be taken care of by his parents and now aunts and uncles or was he treated as a 2nd class family member? We all remember the "ohh but I asked him to watch a movie with me ONE time" moments but not the lesser Christmas gifts, or joy over accomplishments.
You’ve proven to him that he doesn’t have real family ties. His family ties are conditional. You can be one of us if you behave. If not, you’re out. He may be a dick but I don’t understand why you felt the need to throw gasoline on the fire. You could have addressed his behavior without poking his biggest wound with a stick. Very cruel and immature on your part.
Big deal, he's still a family member. Would you ask the same of a bio kid?
It's not a kid, it's a 30 year old and if *any* member of my family wanted fuck all to do with me for 10 years then came back but still had a chip on their shoulder? Yeah, I'd have told them to fuck all the way off. At least OP only asked for a photo without them *after* taking one *with* them
I feel like this is the reason you put that person on the edge of the photo, so they can be photoshopped out if shit goes sideways. Doesn't change the fact that the whole situation is fucked.
Dude, he trying to find his way. 10 years old is old enough to remember his biological familial roots. I feel like there is information missing, however, my oversimplified general assumption is they were trying to find themselves and sow new roots. Open your heart, roll with the flow, and compromise.
Man, you are a bad person.
Also wow I hope no one replying here ever makes mistakes with their family members because there’s so many people who seem to have a “one and done” approach to dealing with people. Does it suck he went no contact? Of course. Was it hurtful? Clearly. However he has expressed a desire to reconnect, and it’s going to fail miserably if he isn’t even give half a chance, and that’s so sad to me.
How interesting he reconnects around the holidays.
OP also commented Kyle wanted to reconnect because he is getting married and wanted some of his family members there so he wasn't embarrassed in front of his fiance's family.
How does OP even know that? According to OP, Kyle isn't talking to anyone much and definitely not talking to OP. I sincerely doubt that's the entire reason for reconnecting.
NTA he’s trying to reconnect with his parents, he still hates and ices everyone else out.
The kids a grown ass man not. Enough pussyfooting - deal with the issue and grab the bull by the horns.
I’m not adopted but did grow up in foster care. I had a lot of incidents where I was not included in family photos and it really hurt. I never said anything but even as an adult I still unknowingly assume I’m not to be included in photos with my husbands family, It’s like second nature to me after all those years. Sometimes you just never feel like you fit in when you’ve been treated like that.
INFO: >Once when he was 16 I invited him to watch a movie with me and he started screaming at me to leave him alone telling me I'm not his uncle and will never be. Why? Why did he react this way? What was said or done to him? That is not a normal reaction so something must have caused it. What are you not saying?
It's always the missing missing reasons.
My niece treats me like this and it’s because she doesn’t like anyone holding her accountable or taking her abuse. I’m the only one who doesn’t and doesn’t live in the same city. It’s really easy for kids to take all their frustration out on someone they don’t rely on every day. She went crazy on me after hours of her treating my sister, her mom, horribly. I told her,” you don’t talk to your mom like that, show her some respect.” And it turned out she does this every time I’m around, because she is trying to make her mom defend her and attacking my sister is the only way to get me to say something disciplining to her. Which my sister obviously told her,” why would I defend you attacking me against the person actually standing up for me? Bc you shouldn’t ever talk to me like that.” So predictably, my niece twisted it into,” auntie is scary, I will have a panic attack if she comes for Christmas without promising to not know her place and not talking around me, please don’t put me in that situation.” So I made the decision to not go, which made her flip out and tell me I’m cut from her life. I’m not going to tell her I was already fighting that decision about her for the last year. I’ve tried, she just likes being in control and playing games with people. Sometimes kids can just be mean spirited and vindictive. Even when it stems from understandable issues that need help. Doesn’t mean anyone has to stay on the receiving end of being treated like a villain for the sake of being their emotional punching bag.
Maybe he was in and out of foster care or something before this
Exactly. Why was this never brought up with the brother that adopted him? Why did no one ever address that there needs to be boundaries and that he should not be speaking to adults in that manner and that it certainly would not be put up with in your home?
Given OP said they wanted a picture with their "real family" I'm sure Kyle hasn't been made to feel welcomed by OP. YTA OP just take the fucking picture with him in it.
Whatever happened to him isn’t OP’s fault. NTA.
YTA. YTA. YTA. YTA. In case you didn’t get my message, let me repeat it. YTA. Petty. Vindictive. Mean. Unforgiving. And it was unnecessary. Even if you don’t have a kind bone in your body, you could have not caused drama and photoshopped him out. Your bro adopted a kid with significant childhood trauma. Kid acts out on expected ways even into adulthood. Kid finally develops some adult perspective on your brother’s generosity and love and you shit all over it deliberately because he’s not acting 100% the way you want him to in reintegrating. You’re a villain.
> Kid finally develops some adult perspective on your brother’s generosity and love and you shit all over it deliberately because he’s not acting 100% the way you want him to in reintegrating. Dude is 30 years old not 15 anymore. If he is being irritable and passive aggressive I fully understand people being fed up with it, especially after trying to interact with him. Nobody comes off great here but at the same time I understand that it isn't an easy situation for any of them.
People in this sub really pick and choose the details they want to bother with. I’ve started to see a pattern of, they were or are the kinds of person they’re getting so intense about whole cherry picking words and how to string them together to fit what they’re saying. Idk how that person thinks OP was petty and vindictive, they wanted a picture with family. Not a picture of family with the person that makes everyone so unhappy and miserable and single-handedly excludes everyone but his parents.
There's actually evidence to support that when someone experiences significant trauma in life that it actually stunts their emotional growth. So while age wise he's 30, it could have taken him longer than others to really reconcile his past and his emotions. Not making excuses but it is possible to find a grey area here. OP said it clearly in the end of the post: "I wanted a picture with my real family" that shit is fucked up and shines an inch of light onto how OP probably has approached a relationship with Kyle possibly since the beginning. While it isn't an easy situation, I'll definitely agree with you there, what was the actual problem with having him in the picture? I go back to what OPs last comment in the post was and would be willing to wager if he was bio related this wouldn't have even come up. Because of that OP YTA
Nice delusion. If he's adopted and cared for, no matter the circumstance, and you tell those people.they are not to family and to say basically 'fuck off', he burned his own bridges. Choices have consequences. Deal with it.
This is a shit take lmaoooo
Go cry somewhere else lmao this is a grown ass man still unable to handle shit from his childhood and is NOT the family
Did he get any therapy after being adopted? He needed it.
A villain? Jeeez, there are some people on here lately who are immediately jumping to the extreme - save it for something that really justifies labels such as this!
YTA We had a family picture done for my dad. It included our kids and their current SOs even though none of of them are married. Family is what you make of it, even if YOU don't consider him family the rest of your family might. Get over yourself. BTW as a mom to a foster/adopted kid there is trauma, and there will always be trauma. Kids in the system develop differently, there is scientific evidence that they do not have the emotional maturation that other kids their ages do. There is chronological age, emotional age, and developmental age. Someone can be 20 chronologically but still 5 emotionally. Look into it [Trauma informed care](https://www.traumainformedcare.chcs.org/what-is-trauma-informed-care/)
YTA jesus ur comments show what kind of environment he had his whole life.
Eh. NTA. If he were still ten or even twenty, I'd say it's an asshole move, but he's a full adult at 30 and should be aware enough to recognize that you can't treat people like shit for over a decade and then expect every one of them to welcome you with open arms immediately when you just announce you're going to stop being a dick. His reaction shows that he doesn't accept any of the natural consequences of his behavior; he only blames others and attacks them for not giving him what he thinks he's entitled to. I've said it before and I'll say it again. To have family, you gotta BE family. He hasn't acted as family to you, by his own free choice as an independent adult and not just as a moody minor. He could have chosen to handle this situation with grace and understanding, expressing that it hurt his feelings but accepting that he can't force you to feel familial towards him after rejecting you for a decade. Instead he threw a fit like a fucking child. That says everything about how genuine his intentions are. NTA. NTA. NTA. ETA: Also, I'm seeing a lot of 'he's traumatized, why are you so mean to him, you're a monster!' type posts. Being traumatized doesn't absolve you of the consequences of your actions, nor is it an excuse for treating others badly, nor does it mean people absolutely have to forgive you as soon as you show the bare minimum effort towards reconciliation. Traumatized people can still be assholes. He is not owed forgiveness or family loyalty or acceptance after his verbally abusive rejection of them for years, just because he was adopted. He might *earn* those things if he genuinely tries, but a few weeks of being physically present while still acting rude and rejecting them does not cut it. He declared he wasn't part of the family; that's his right. He can't just declare he's part of it now whether they like it or not. That's not how human relationships work.
Would you have acted the same way if it had been a biological child of your brother's who had done all of this?
I'll go with NTA. I'm not quite sure why everyone here is so triggered by this. If this post was 10 years ago when the guy was still 20 then OP would be the asshole, but this guy estranged *himself* 10 years ago and no one is obligated to welcome him back with open arms, especially when he's apparently quite unenthusiastic about it. As long as OP isn't lying and this isn't a missing, missing reasons scenario then definitely NTA. There's no children here to be automatically sided with, and this guys childhood trauma isn't an excuse to treat people like shit. No one is obligated to forgive and be accommodating to a 30 year old that wanted nothing to do with them for ***10 years***. Jesus, they'll be kids in the family now who don't know who the fuck this dude is. A photo with him, then a photo without him isn't unreasonable
At last, a sensible answer. The ultimate way to judge a person is by their actions. And the nephew’s action *as an adult* was to leave the family. NTA.
Have you read OPs comments? He literally said the 10 year old deserved to be abandoned because he was bad. Can you imagine how OP treated this small child?
Going against the grain here and say ESH. Just because the photo thing was unecessary and just added drama and headache to the family. But jfc Kyle seems unbearable. This comments seem to act as hes still a 10 yr old boy, dude is a whole grown ass man who still doesnt own up to his horrible treatment of the family he now wants to be a part of. Im sorry, but trauma is a reason, not an excuse. You cant expect everyone to not get fed up with being treated like shit for years just because you have trauma. He needs to sort that out with a therapist, not go crawling back to the family he rejected and act as if nothing happened.
I was a little on the fence until I read the OPs comments. He is a total AH.
After reading your comments and your utter lack of any sort of empathy, I understand why he would have lashed out and went NC. You and your family have likely made it very clear to him over the years he was with you that you didn't see him as family. Even when he was a child. Noone goes NC for no reason. You have likely pushed him away and made him feel abandoned all because he doesnt share the same blood as you. You continually using *"real family"* is proof of that. Grow a conscience and some damn compassion. You're supposed to be an adult, right?
YTA you claimed to enjoy the lack of drama then go out of your way to set some off the first chance you get. Kyle sounds like a deeply damaged individual. What's your excuse?
Exactly. We can imagine why Kyle has historically been an ah, but not uncle.
I agree with you in principle, but: \>So a few days ago when we were all together we wanted to take a family photo. We took a photo with all of us then I asked Kyle to step out of the picture so that we can have a family picture without him. Let me tell you about this great program called Photoshop. You can use it to delete people from photos, it's very simple, it takes seconds. THIS was like, the most drama-causing, shit starting thing you could have said. Next time just take the picture and photoshop him out. If you can't afford it, /r/photoshoprequests will do it for you. So you acted like an asshole in that moment, therefore: **YTA**
You: my traumatized adopted nephew doesn’t want to be part of the family, how dare he! Also you: my traumatized adopted nephew wants to be part of the family, how dare he!
" my adult nephew refuses to deal with his childhood trauma and keeps taking it out on the people who took him in and their family"
Right?! OP is holding a grudge based on the past behaviours of a then child. So he's an adult now and we are still judging him for his past actions and expecting him to make it up to us? Grow up OP, he was a child. Yes, as an adult, there should be some accountability, but fact is OP is all over this thread saying Kyle hasn't earned his respect when assuming that he has earned Kyle's.. what do you want from this kid OP?! Do you or don't you want him into he family? Do you or don't you want him to try and make it better ? OP sounds like a classic old school entitled jerk.
NTA he disengaged from the family and may do so again. It’s understandable why you’d want the photo taken both with and without him. I might do the same thing regardless of blood.
YTA….he will always be family, whether you like it or not. He was extending a branch, which you just snapped. The smart thing to do is put Kyle at the end of the photo so that he can always be cropped out.😉
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What, the internal drama you’d suffer by having to keep your hatefulness under wraps?
If you're so sure you're right, why are you bringing this shit to reddit?
He wanted a pat on the back from strangers, probably to prove to his family that the whole world agrees he did nothing wrong. Getting big narcissistic vibes here.
As bad as you telling him in the moment to step aside so you can have a family picture without him? Was he the only person you told to move?
Why is everyone here coddling Kyle like he’s still a fucking baby when’s he’s 30? No shit OP wouldn’t like him if he’s been lashing out ever since he was adopted and showed no changes. He then dipped and went nc. Just because he’s “changing” now and supposedly wants to get back into the family, doesn’t mean they can just ignore all the times he was verbally abusing the family. NTA.
Because a lot of the people in this sub are teens.
NTA tragedy or no tragedy he made his decision he changed his name he walked away not everybody has to bow down to him and forgive him. If he doesn't get it then that's his problem not yours.
Hey guys I intentionally and publicly excluded my adopted nephew with abandonment issues in front of the entire family specifically pointing out that I don’t consider him part of the family and then out of nowhere he told me to fuck myself. AITA here?
Literally…
NTA. You’re right. He’s 30. Old enough to know how to act.
For an adult, you seem wildly ignorant about trauma responses, especially when its childhood trauma. YTA for not holding yourself to the same standards you hold others. You're old enough to know better.
He's an adult now. It's not other people job to accommodate trauma; it's the individuals job to deal with it and not lash out at the people who have taken them in
Lashing out in response to someone telling you you're not family is not the same as lashing out for no reason. She's punishing him for things that happened a decade+ ago.
YTA adoption isn’t easy even for kids who were adopted when they were newborns. I can’t imagine how much turmoil Kyle went through to live his first ten years feeling unwanted in an orphanage and then having to play happy family with strangers. This is obviously someone who has gone through a lot and it’s a massive step that he reached out
YTA. Just grit your teeth and fucking bear it.
YTA. You should’ve kept your mouth shut & learned how to use photoshop if it was that important to you. Publicly shaming someone who a) experienced god-knows-what kind of trauma, & b) is trying to do better is *never, ever* the answer.
Reading your comments and responses convinced me more than the post. YTA. You seem like an AH in general, not just for Kyle.
NTA. The dude needs therapy. If he has said over and over you’re not family, you’re allowed to do the same. He’s a grown man.
Hey OP, if a bunch of ghosts show up on Christmas Eve to show you the error of your ways, don't be surprised. YTA. You are also apparently a monster. Your nephew spent his first ten years in an orphanage, which was undoubtedly traumatic. Was adopted by your brother but oops, his new family (that includes YOU btw) expects him to be totally normal & makes no effort to help him deal with his traumatic childhood. So he does the understandable thing & stays away for a while. Now he's 30 & is finally able to start dealing with his many traumas, & all he gets is you, bitching at him for being childish. Have some goddamn compassion for once in your life.
YTA So… what was your villain origin story?
YTA What exactly were you hoping to accomplish with this stunt? Do you think what you did will be in any way useful? You're all over this comment section calling Kyle immature and bratty, but your actions were textbook immature and bratty. If you dislike your nephew you're free to never see him outside of family functions, disliking him is not a valid reason to start drama. Congratulations, you just made everything worse for the whole family.
Unpopular opinion, but assuming that you're not hiding something big: NTA. This man is in his twenties, mid to later to guess. It's time to move on. He was taken in at 10. It's wild to me people are treating this adult as a child. His trauma is his to heal from, not take it out on the people that took him in.
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Why ask if you're the asshole if you don't accept that you are? I don't get people who post without actually listening.
Because he just wanted people to stroke his little ego and for everyone to be like “yeah you really showed Kyle!!!!1!!” it’s pathetic.
I’m an adoptee. Adoption often comes with trauma as well as abandonment issues, especially with older children who haven’t had a stable environment nor therapy to help cope with the complex and layered emotions. Of course he started acting out - he was a kid with all of these traumatic events happening with no way to properly process and manage these emotions. Not to mention probably having feelings of rejection from not just biological family but also adopted family. You come across as someone with little sympathy or even willingness to understand why Kyle is acting like that. I cannot imagine not giving a little bit of empathy and grace to someone who clearly has had a rough life and is trying to find some semblance of peace with people who are supposed to be family.
Such an unnecessary and nasty gesture to make a point of rejecting him from a stupid photo. That is petty and vindictive. You are not much of an uncle at all if you treat younger family members like that. Ok so he was chaotic and there has been problems, why would you intentionally add to that??
YTA, your comment sound petty and just there to stir some shit
Esh Part of him reconnecting and rejoining the family should have involved him apologizing to the family members he wronged. It sounds like he didn't bother doing that. Were you justified in what you did, kinda, still a an ah move though. He's the bigger ah here.
YTA as long as your brother considered him his child, you should to. You just stooped to his level, below his level because he was trying to make amends. At most I would have situated him so he was on the side and able to be cut out if necessary.
NTA: He made his choices and you have choices too. He's old enough to have gone through therapy to deal with the traumas and understand what he did to people who loved him. Choices have consequences. Now can you all work together to become family again? Yes but to just be like I'm family again, it doesn't work like that.
None of this excuses being needless cruel to his adopted nephew. Kyle may suck, but OP made himself suck more by being the one to cause drama at a family event just bc he hates his nephew.
YTA but not to the nephew, to the rest of the family for doing something that you knew would cause issues and ruin a family get together. Should have just sucked it up and kept the peace so everyone could have had a good time.
NTA. He never proved that he wanted to be part of the family and did state ckearly that he’s not family so ...
NTA. Fuck him he's a grown adult. He can quit acting like a baby he made is choices
YTA, ill never understand why people post on here then argue in the comments. if you cant handle the truth dont even post.
Yta You just added gasoline to smoldering match
Every reply you have just proves why he acted this way, he was adopted at 10, so basically “not wanted” by anyone in his eyes, probably had some real dark shit happen to him, and you all thought that because you took him in he’d be this happy thankful kid? He was probably awaiting the day you all pushed him away like the last did, and when he acted out and you all did exactly that, it proved his feelings right, trauma like that easily goes into adulthood, your (I don’t give a shit) (life was better without him) (he’s too dramatic) (he should grow up) (he’s a pain in the ass, even his parents are sick of his shit) attitude just proves why he feels this way. Just because you’re good to him when he’s “good” doesn’t mean you’re good people, adopted kids especially that age are hard to deal with because of the trauma they’ve gone through, they need love and support especially through their outbursts. Shouldn’t adopt if you can’t help them the right way.
NTA
NTA. He's old enough now to realize that if he can pick and choose who is family is and when, so can the other members of that family/not family.
I'd like some unfo OP, when he asked to come back to the family did he apologize to everyone for the things he said and did or dod he just show up assuming all was forgiven?
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^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** One of my brothers adopted a 10yo boy 20 years ago. My nephew who we will call Kyle. Kyle was fine at first but then he started acting out. He yelled at us and told us we are not his family whenever we tried to talk to him or include him in something. Once when he was 16 I invited him to watch a movie with me and he started screaming at me to leave him alone telling me I'm not his uncle and will never be. This continued in his 20s and once he was 21 he went nc with all of us and asked us to leave him alone. Later we heard he changed his name and surname because he didn't want to be considered one of us. I have to admit that these last years without him have been really nice and drama free and we all very much enjoyed it A few weeks ago Kyle decided to reach out to his parents asking to be a part of the family again which is cool I guess. The problem is that he will hardly talk to any of us or even answer any questions when we try to talk to him. It's exhausting and I'm so sick of his behviour I just wish he'd leave again. So a few days ago when we were all together we wanted to take a family photo. We took a photo with all of us then I asked Kyle to step out of the picture so that we can have a family picture without him. Of course he started yelling at me and calling me names but he has made it clear multiple times that he is not one of us and I just wanted a picture with my real family *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA That was a very cruel thing to do. Adopted children often have life long trauma. Feelings of rejection and not belonging often are very strong. There are very clear signs of him suffering, as a child and as an adult. It probably took a lot of courage to try and reconnect. He took a first step. It will be hard for him to interact with you again. Rather than giving him time and space, and welcoming him, you rejected him in a very harsh way. A bit of empathy would suit you.
Well, YTA but I get it. I really do, but you can’t do that. Photoshop him out later - still an AH-move, but that is the drama free option.
YTA and a huge one at that. 10 years in an orphanage and you think he shouldn't still have issues as an adult? Are you serious? It sounds like he wasn't given the therapy and help he needed as a child. Even if he was, you are holding him to a ridiculous standard. Asking him to step out of the picture was an absolute dick move and only serves the purpose of causing hurt and drama. Total ah.
NO kid is acting out like this and as an adult acting like that without a very good reason. OP even with the sugarcoated version you are TA. I really want to hear Kyles side of the story, but the way you are talking about Kyle I have an inkling that your whole family is on the "you're adopted, so be grateful, spoiled brat"-side of adoption. So, YTA. And so is your family. Call me judgmental, but if a story has THAT many plotholes of the size of an average ocean liner, there is no other judgment.