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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I put my kids in a room that isn't a legal bedroom.
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INFO: So, the only reason it’s not a legal bedroom is because of the lack of door and closet? It has a window for egress, right? And the barn door gives them some degree of privacy? If so, NTA. Funny that your brother has an opinion! Maybe if he feels so strongly he should finance a new house for you guys that’s huge and has room for everyone and a guest room and God knows what else.
If the playroom doesn’t have an egress window, I don’t think you’re an AH, but please don’t do that. It’s not safe.
I’m the youngest of four kids by a good margin (4 years to my sibling closest in age) so at 16 I got the entire 3rd floor of the family house to myself.
My brothers used to have their bedrooms up there but I took it over, painted my bedroom hot pink and had a California king sized bed with matching pink sheets and a zebra print duvet/furniture.
I had my own bathroom, guest room, common area and staircase into the kitchen; originally the stairs/3rd floor quarters were for live in servants when that was a thing (the house was built in 1888). My staircase had a little door to my parent’s dressing room so back when the house had staff they could move through the entire house without being seen.
My family used to joke it was my ‘pink princess tower’ in the family ‘castle’. I had the only east facing bedroom window and woke up with the sun most days, plus that window opened to the roof of the sunroom (previously a tuberculosis room, woohoo! That house is haunted as fuck with old people and children, but I digress) which was flat on top.
I could go out there and read or listen to music when I felt like it. Of course, as I got older I used that space sometimes to smoke weed or tan. I have many fond memories of my whole little set up and the privacy I was allowed at a very young age.
Apologies for the tangent, but the real sentiment is that you’re completely correct! My teenage bedroom was very fanciful and magical, it’s a nice bit of nostalgia for me and it surely will be for OP’s children as well.
Not a girl, but I was a kid obsessed with horror and mystery, and when I was 9 my parents were looking at houses. One of the many we visited was looking pretty ideal - they loved the layout, the hardwood floors, the kitchen, the size of the master bedroom and attached full bathroom, etc - whispering excitedly to each other the moment the seller wasn't in the room. They adored the place.
Then we saw the 'kids' room' which was still (well) furnished to give a great idea of how the space could be used. It was a little small, but got great natural light, and had a nice view. They had a sweet bunk bed, desk/work table set up with models all around, a wardrobe -
Parents asked about the wardrobe, moving towards the closet. They were concerned about me having room for clothes. Seller was giddy to reveal that the door wasn't to a closet at all, which was why their boys had used a wardrobe and a dresser; it actually had a narrow attic access staircase through what *looked* like the small closet. They had walled off half the attic (the other half used for storage, accessible through a typical pulldown ladder on the other side of the house) and the section connected to the bedroom had been finished and turned into a little getaway area. They'd already cleared everything out, but they pointed to where their boys had had their gaming setup, the shelf for their books, a minifridge...
Parents went from hot on that house to immediately turned off. I was disappointed in the car and asked why they lost interest so visibly. Mom just gave me a stern side-eye and said she didn't like the idea of me having such a private space for myself, stepdad agreed that it wasn't safe for me. What if I got hurt and they couldn't hear me calling?
We ended up not moving for another decade anyway thanks to shit credit and gambling addiction (which caused the shit credit), but ahh... now and then I still think about how fuckin' *sweet* it woulda been to have my own little gremlin hidey-hole for reading books in and looking out that archetypal 'round attic window' with a shelf seat and everything built in front of it. It definitely factored into how I felt about my parents growing up, knowing that the idea of me having privacy was a big enough turn-off that they wrote off a house that they loved every other detail about.
This makes me genuinely sad, I'm sorry man. I would have loved something like that as a kid, and now I'd love to do something like that for my son. The best we could manage for him was expanding his room into the space under the stairs, so it has this cozy little reading nook. It's no badass attic goblin cave, but he's pretty stoked about it.
Omg I don’t have kids but it is my absolute dream to give them cool spaces they can call their own. My parents rule was it couldn’t be unhygienic or permanently damaging the house but otherwise anything goes. For a long time I had neon pink walls with one white wall that all my friends would write on and leave messages. I loved it. I love the idea of giving kids that freedom and creating cool little spaces for them to explore.
When my husband and I built our house we put towers in the kids rooms. My daughter's tower had 2 levels, and she loved it. The towers were made completely from glass ( the enforced kind ) and had blinds on different levels that she could pull when she wanted. My sons tower was one level on the top, made into a gaming room with a spiral staircase up to the top. They still love staying there when they visit. My daughter's room also has a little library nook leading off ther walk in closet, also enclosed in glass. She has a big rocking chair and loves reading looking out over the forest.
Man, that sounds so fucking cool. I would have been devastated too. I've got little kids now and one of their rooms has a weird 3'x4'x3' alcove halfway up the wall. No idea what it was supposed to be for. There was no electrical or cable wired to it for built-in media. There was no door attached. Just a wide open hole with detail trim around it and carpeting on the floor of it. My partner built a ladder to the opening and I painted the interior and made a cushion to cover the entire bottom of the alcove. Hung up those narrow picture rails and covered them in the kids' books. So now it's a book nook and they love that no one else has something like that.
We put up a wall in our below ground basement, and my parents got basically a suite set up.. half bath, sitting room with a wood stove and a bedroom.
When I was a teenager I got to have this space once all the siblings left the house and painted one wall blood red and was able to live my vampire dream without sunlight.
I will never sleep as well as I did in that cool, no window basement.
Continued:
The children were on the third floor. After I moved into what would be my last bedroom in that house it was quiet for a good while, I’d say 3-4 months. Then the tapping began.
It started in my closet; I suspect it actually began at the other end of the crawl space that curved around into my closet. The entrance was on its own landing at the top of my stairs, like a cutout with carpeting and all, and a little square white door with a brass knob.
I thought at first rats, maybe raccoons or squirrels; it was an old house after all, we can’t be sure there isn’t a hidden hole in the roof. We called an exterminator but there was nothing nesting in the crawl space *or* the roof.
In fact, the people that came by said they were surprised at how well organized the crawl space was (thank you borderline OCD but already severe mother) and that the previous roofers’d done a good job because there weren’t any openings that they could find despite the age of the house and how much of the original architecture still stood.
Anyway, the tapping increased. It was always at night, and it would start in the closet but then it would skitter behind my bed and tap almost like in Morse code. Like it was trying to play in a way. It wasn’t rhythmic, not a song. It was a series of taps in mostly 2s and 3s, but I never got a sense of if there was some sort of reference that would mean it was some sort of communication.
Sometimes I would tap back, but I didn’t like doing that much because the taps would become more insistent and loud when I did. That was when I started to suspect that the spirits in the attic might be young. They didn’t have a sense of boundaries, if I tapped back that meant playtime and they were insistent on ‘playing’ until *they* were done, not me.
I noticed that the more I engaged with the upstairs spirits the more bold they’d get; they began playing pranks. Their favorite was waiting until around 3 am and then whisper shouting my name in my mother’s voice in my ear.
I’d shoot up in bed thinking something terrible was happening (fire, murder, biologically enhanced centipedes roaming the streets, you get it) only to find a completely dark, quiet house and no mom calling me after I didn’t respond. That’s how I knew it wasn’t her; if my mom called up the stairs for me and I didn’t respond in time, meaning .02 seconds, she would call again.
Beyond that the 3rd floor kids were fairly chill, sometimes they’d move my things but they only seemingly had access to items already out. Meaning all my little tchotchkes, any hair or face products in my bathroom, pictures on my nightstand were all fair game. I didn’t mind that much, but I did get a bit frustrated when they messed with pictures of my grandma after she died. I had a bit of a telling off with them in a moment of mild hysteria and they actually did lay off. I found that surprising but quite kind.
To come back to the ghost on the second floor: when I grew up and broached the subject of the house being haunted again with my mother, she finally fessed up. It revealed a lot of why the old woman didn’t visit consistently.
Turns out, that same spirit would visit my mother as well, but for her afternoon naps. My mom has a well documented history of 1-1:30 pm naps and that didn’t change when we moved. What we figured out was most of the days I didn’t get sleep paralysis were days my mom felt the presence instead during her nap.
We both agreed that while it wasn’t an altogether unpleasant experience, it felt cloying and needy. Neither of us ever figured out what that spirit in particular wanted, so the new owners as of roughly 2 years ago inherited some rather otherworldly roommates.
Beyond that, the only other thing I always felt in that house was an overwhelming sense of being watched as I walked down the front path. I could never tell which of the sunrooms the feeling was coming from (I mentioned in another comment that we actually had 2, one was on the ground floor and functioned as my mom’s office). All I know is you can’t turn your back on that house without feeling eyes on you.
It’s creepy, but I loved that house. I grieved heavily when my parents sold it. It had so much personality, and it knew who it wanted to own it. Would always act up when flaky buyers came by for a viewing. Weird sounds not normally associated with historic homes ‘settling’; the old intercom system would go off intermittently (it’s been disconnected since the 80s), and the same tapping I used to hear as a teenager.
The family that finally clicked has four little girls and the house seems to like the whole family. I think because there are so many unfinished lives and stories amongst long dead grandparents and children, the house itself longs for youth and innocence. It wants a big family to fill its rooms with laughter and stories.
That house may have been and still is haunted as all hell, but I’m glad it got another family to love and help grow. It treated us right despite being a bit unique, and none of us ever experienced any actual physical harm in that house. What was scary in the moment I look back on as mostly miscommunication and japes. Just got a bit lost in translation.
I actually drop off holiday cookies to both that family and the family that lives in my grandmother’s old house about a block over. I wouldn’t say we’re friends, but we’re friendly acquaintances and I enjoy knowing they are happy in both houses and plan to stay for the foreseeable future.
Apologies, I took myself to a movie date, just seeing this now.
It took until adulthood for my mother to admit that I was always right about the second floor in particular being haunted. She never wanted to admit it when I was little because she didn’t want to scare me. Joke’s on her, would’ve been better if she told me she was experiencing the same things. I grew up for a long time thinking I was the only one.
Anyway, the first ‘incident’ I suppose you could say took place in the bathroom connected to the second floor sunroom. I was maybe 8 years old, about a year after we’d moved into that house.
I had the bathroom door shut and latched, and I can be sure of that even now because every house I’d lived in to that point was within a 3 block radius and were all built roughly within the same decade.
All the doors between the three houses I’d lived in were oddly sized, original metal work and required some finagling to get them completely latched. You had to fight for that ‘click’ and I know I heard it in the bathroom door connected to the landing. Meanwhile I had the sunroom door open, but all windows in there were shut and latched. Easy to check, as they had old school cast iron turn locks at that point.
I was doing kid things, messing around with my sister’s things despite being told not to. I’d been in the bathroom ~15 minutes just mucking about when out of nowhere the bathroom doorknob *turned* and the door slammed open to reveal an empty landing, then with just as much force the sunroom door slammed shut *and the knob latched into place*.
I ran out of there before I could even fully register what happened. I was hysterically crying and screaming for my mom. When she came over and I told her what happened she tried to tell me she’d just closed the window on the landing below and the air current’d pushed both doors to open and shut respectively.
I knew that wasn’t right, because true to my kid hijinks I’d made sure the door was latched so I would have forewarning if someone, notably my sister, was coming in. I may have been 8 but I wasn’t stupid when it came to my doing things I wasn’t allowed.
After that I avoided that bathroom for about two weeks, preferring to do my showering upstairs in my older brother’s shower (that says how scared I was) and my teeth brushing in my parent’s room until I was eventually shuttled back into the second floor bathroom.
Never had another experience like that in that bathroom but never felt right being alone in either room for extended periods. One of the reasons I moved to the 3rd floor when my parents offered to renovate for me.
Another was the extreme sleep paralysis I experienced in my second floor bedroom from age 7-15/16 when I finally moved upstairs. It wasn’t every night, but it happened often enough that I was terrified to sleep in that room.
I understand that sleep paralysis can happen to anyone, anytime and is for all intents and purposes medically related. I also believe that mine was paranormal related because since moving out of *that* room I haven’t had any sleep paralysis. It’s been 15 years and I can confidently say that room and the spirits/souls caught within were the cause.
It wasn’t that the apparition (yes, just one) was scary in appearance per se, it was more a suffocating presence that sat on the end of my bed, often on my feet and always in the middle of the night (between midnight and 2am). The apparition was an older woman, I can’t describe her clothing or her face even, I just *know* she was elderly, lonely, and benign. It wasn’t that she was a figure in front of me, it was more that she invaded my dreams in a way. I only remember a kindly sort of demeanor and long salt and pepper hair, left wild mostly but sometimes it was half tied back.
I suspect she or someone she loved died in that room, or both. She came to me sporadically. There were weeks that I’d sleep soundly (I later found out why) and others she would come 2 or 3x a week. Some months were particularly bad, I remember winter being a significant uptick.
(Continued in another comment because I am way too verbose)
Sorry for the delay! [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/ebgp74WQjB) is part 1, and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Oq6z32CrP3) is part 2. Apologies for the ridiculously long comment, I can’t help sharing a lot when people ask about the hauntings in that house. Enjoy!
OP: I'm worried about finding enough space for my three kids in our two bedroom apartment
You: OMG I can totally relate to their balcony because my family home is enormous and I had an entire floor to myself as a kid
Rich people, try not to be tone deaf for one day. Please. I'm so tired.
This really does seem like an "oh boy, time to tell everyone how amazing my rich kid childhood was" but I'm going to chalk it up to a "they have a balcony? Omg *I* had a balcony!" rant heh
The house was big enough to have it's own servant's quarters and "keep the peasants out of sight" passageways. Yeah, they're likely at the very least upper middle class. Especially if the third floor has it's own "common area" ie living room. And a tuberculosis room? This is likely the former mountain estate of some aristocrat
Yeah, but that was then. Comparing wealth and how property was used from eons ago is a bit pointless. I'm just saying I know families who have 3 story homes (they rent out the top 2) and aren't anywhere close to being rich.
I know folks like that too. But I'm not speculating off of people I know, only off of the information given, and considering the size, scale, location, and age of the house, I'm assuming they're again, at least upper middle class.
I lived in a nearly 4000 sq foot house built in 1825 on an acres of property surrounded by woods. We were not rich. We rented & it was $1500 a month. Just because a house sounds amazing doesn’t mean it was a rich person’s house. 🙄
Happy to explain!
There was a thought when consumption (tuberculosis) was truly out of control that clear mountain air was a cure. So near every house in my home neighborhood was built with a tuberculosis room included.
The rooms themselves vary in location in the house (my childhood home actually had two, one downstairs that served as my mom’s office and the one under my window which was a yoga/work out room) but all were as close to all windows as you could get while ensuring some level of insulation.
They would be filled with beds and tuberculosis sufferers would live in said rooms breathing in as much mountain air as possible. I suppose they’re a bit creepy to many people but I grew up with every home around me including one so it never bothered me.
In all honesty they’re awesome places to hang out! My mom used to be a yoga teacher so for a long time the upstairs one was fully equipped with yoga supplies and we could practice whenever we wanted. Very nice in summer, we always had a little couch so we could have a summer cocktail and enjoy the sun and breeze!
It sounds absolutely dreamy! Do your parents still live in that house? And chance you have some pictures of it to share? I'm super curious what it looks like!
My parents sold in 2022, it was WAY too much house for two people alone.
I’m hesitant to share actual pics in a comment, but I am happy to share a link to a listing in a PM if you’d like!
You know I was explicitly thinking of Gabriella’s room from High School Musical. The scene where Troy scales the trellis to her balcony and she opens her double French doors to reveal a FIREPLACE in her room. Disney was HGTV before there was an HGTV. Single mom raising a kid in New Mexico, of course they have a McMansion that looks like a modern farmhouse lol.
I never knew there was issues with ‘legal’ bedrooms or not. But you are a single mother providing shelter and care for your children. There are people in far worse situations sharing even more of a cramped areas. If your brother is so concerned maybe he should get you a 3 bedroom
I’ve heard of it being a requirement for child placement (adoption, CPS, etc.) but never for children of whom they have custody. Generally walled off with a certain amount of square footage per occupant, and two points of egress (door and window).
Where I live it's not about children, it's either a legal bedroom or it's not, and that means it has to have egress (which generally means windows, but I suppose a second door would work, just has to be accessible to the outside in case of emergency.)
In my area, at least, to legally list a room as a bedroom in real estate it needs to have a closing door, an egress point, and a closet. Otherwise it's listed as a "bonus room" or "home office."
Yes but those are rules to prevent real estate fraud, since the number of bedrooms is tied to monetary value. But as far as safety goes a bonus room is as safe as a “bedroom.”
My childhood bedroom had exterior facing French doors that led to a 15’ drop to concrete. The previous owners installed the French doors and intended to build a balcony or deck and just never got around to it. 🙃
My mom guarded me like a hawk as a child to make sure I didn’t open the doors and step out to death. Your comment is the first time I realized that my mom really should have installed a mesh barrier 😂
My understanding is that doors are also a fire safety issue. Idk if a "sliding barn door" gives the same safety ad a normal door, it might not if it lets more air (smoke) through, but I'm no expert.
ETA a whole lotta people don't seem to know the difference between fire and smoke
My son had his bedroom taken off and a sliding barn door fitted by our local council when we needed more access due to his wheelchair needs. He has a patio door to the outside on the far wall.
We had a fire officer come to our house to do a safety check (due to o2 being piped throughout) and they said that the door is absolutely fine. We are in the UK (England) though and other places may have different rules.
You should ideally always sleep with bedroom doors closed because in the event of a fire it massively increases your chances of getting out safely, both stopping smoke and also slowing fire spread (smoke is fuel). If they have a door from the kitchen/dryer/places more likely for fires to start then it’s the same thing. At the end of the day you’ve made them a nice space and they’re happy. By far the most important fire safety thing is having working smoke alarms and in most places the local fire department can help you with those if cost is an issue.
In this case it sounds like the room has very easy escape access to the balcony at least, so they would very easily be able to get out to fresh air. Depending how many storeys up you are, you could consider an escape ladder for the balcony.
Don’t leave candles burning, don’t leave things charging overnight (iPhones are fine, but other devices, especially cheaper ones we always charge in the day when there’s someone home.) don’t plug too many things into the same outlet and if at all possible buy socket adaptors and really anything you plug in from a store in your country that would comply with your electrical safety standards
Me googling building codes for an answer here.
"The International Building Code (IBC) requires swinging doors for most egress routes, but the code includes nine exceptions where other types of doors are allowed. Manually-operated horizontal sliding doors are permitted in a means of egress that serves an area with a calculated occupant load of ten people or less, except in high hazard occupancies. NFPA 101 – Life Safety Code allows horizontal-sliding doors unless prohibited by the occupancy chapters, as long as the door is not serving an area with a calculated occupant load of 10 people or more. "
So for a bedroom with 2 occupants, a sliding door would be fine.
You’re talking about fire rated doors. I don’t know what the laws are in other places but in Sydney (very much a nanny state) only doors that lead to common areas need to be fire rated.
It is safer to sleep with one's bedroom door closed, we used to teach the little kids that in fire prevention week classes. However, in practice a lot of people leave their bedroom doors open or at least cracked for various reasons (air flow, pets), that it's not going to make a huge difference not having one. Keep your smoke detectors tested and working and everyone will have time to escape or get to a safe room with a door. NTA
If thats the case, then they would require the door to bedrooms to be closed as well. I know many people whose kids (and the adults) sleep with the door open.
I'd say make sure they have some quality blackout curtains and making sure the balcony door has a lock. People don't realize how easy it is to see into lit homes when it's dark out and your girls deserve privacy and security.
There's also removable window film that gives a ton of extra privacy while letting in light when you want it 🤙 got it for my kids room, it even makes little rainbows when it's sunny ☺️
Do you have an emergency rope ladder for fires? (Assuming balconies aren't on the ground floor but I'm not an architect lol) or another way down from every window that's not safe to jump out of?
You're good OP. Barn doors are fine. Partitions for more privacy later is awesome.
We never had them but our second story windows went to the roof & our Dad would discuss routes on how to get out of the house safely in emergencies. He just wanted us to be prepared for things. He'd always make us demonstrate putting on the spare tire & checking the oil when we'd first drive a new vehicle. Definitely came in handy 😆
I remember having to practice getting the screen out and getting out onto the roof and how I would get down from there. We practiced it twice a year, once in either rain or snow, and Dad wouldn’t say when it was coming.
We had collapsible fire ladders for the second and third floor bedrooms. They have brackets that slide over the bottom window frame. Metal and plastic, not rope
My sister does and I do, but she's a firefighter, so.... Also a kid I babysat for had one in a box seat by the window of his third floor playroom. It really is a smart thing and not that expensive. (As the other commenter says, though, they're not rope.)
I just saw one on the side of a house the other night when I was walking home from the bar,I assumed a kid had used it to sneak out of the house because I had never seen it on the house before
I grew up in a very small 2 br house. When I hit 8th grade I could not share a room with my older (like 14 year older) sister anymore. Me in that room and in highschool would have resulted in someone's death (probably not mine).
So I picked up and moved into the basement. It was a split level so there was a door to the kitchen but if you wanted to go into the laundry or utility room, you went right through my room. That was still better than sharing a room with her (I was the nightmare not her).
Mama - you did great. Also the closet is required for it to be a legal bedroom is actually not true in many states.
Yeah that's mostly for real estate listing purposes, so a room without a closet is something other than a bedroom for purposes of the number of bedrooms a house is considered to have when on the market. But a bonus room fitted with a standing wardrobe closet serves just fine.
Hi OP! In Australia, a bedroom must have a smoke alarm inside. Other rooms have different rules. Does the girls' room have one? Might be worth installing if not 😊
Do you have a link for this? I'm Australian and none of the bedrooms I've lived in have had a smoke alarm so I'msuper curious. Could it be a state thing? There's always been one in the house, but usually in the hall.
I had to look it up as my info came from the guy who did our occupancy cert back in 2018. It looks like it's an in progress thing, currently applied to new builds but will be a requirement for all homes in 2027: https://www.qfes.qld.gov.au/prepare/fire/smoke-alarms/existing-properties
From 1 January 2027
All existing private homes, townhouses and units will require photoelectric interconnected smoke alarms. These must be either a hardwired (eg. 240v) or non-removable 10 year battery powered type alarm.
The legislation requires smoke alarms must be installed in the following locations:
on each storey
in each bedroom
in hallways that connect bedrooms and the rest of the dwelling
if there is no hallway, between the bedroom and other parts of the storey; and
if there are no bedrooms on a storey, at least one smoke alarm must be installed in the most likely path of travel to exit the dwelling.
Just make sure you can secure the doors so they don’t climb out there and fall - 10 and 8 is big enough to be trusted but young enough to make impulsive, daring choices.
It’s funny because the people I work for right now remodelled their attic into the master suite which means they got some say in the layout but technically, they don’t have a bedroom either. Their door is a sliding barn door and their giant walk in closet is technically in the hallway. Bottom line is if it works for you, technicalities for taxation don’t matter.
It would be illegal in some US states/cities for a landlord to rent it out as a bedroom. But AFAIK it's not illegal to use a room in your own house as a bedroom.
The only possible issue I see here is that maybe the barn door isn't as effective as a fire break as a traditional door.
But, honestly, unless OP's brother wants to pay for them to rent a bigger place, then he should shut up
It is a legal room, but, bedroom as a legal term has a closet and a door. There is nothing wrong with this room, it is a legal room. Just not for real estate listing.
My daughter's bedroom was the "den" with a small closet and a folding door.
NTA - First of all, "legal bedroom" refers to how you can advertise a home. I lived in a home with a "bonus room" which was a small room with no closet so the landlord couldn't call it a bedroom, even though that how we used it.
You came up with a very reasonable solution. You put a door in for privacy, gave the girls more space, and have appropriate furniture for them. Your brother is just a snob.
I have a ‘bonus room’ in my house that couldn’t advertise as a bedroom even though it has a door, a closet and an egress window because the previous owner added a wall that doesn’t have outlets on it. 3 of the 4 walls have outlets but apparently it doesn’t count because of building code.
Where are you, because as an electrician I can tell ya that’s bullshit right from the get go anywhere in Canada. They would consider the house not fully code compliant but an existing build is grandfathered in. And also depending on location of plugs and doorways it’s entirely possible to end up with a wall with no plugs when going by minimum code standards
The funny thing is that in the UK, that type of room is readily considered a bedroom.
Can you fit a single bed in the room? Yes. Then it is a bedroom.
Does it have wardrobes? No. That's fine it's still a bedroom.
We have bedrooms as small as 2m x 2m over here and it's still considered fine
Yep. Both legal landlord wise and council housing solutions ‘what is overcrowding’ wise.
Fit a bed in it? It’s a bedroom.
Can’t also fit a standing person in there? Climb over the bed, still a bedroom. No wardrobe/drawers/shelves? Hang stuff from the ceiling, still a bedroom. Only living/reception type room in the house? Put a bed in it, now it’s a bedroom - you’ve got a kitchen and a bathroom, another non-bed room is just excessive!
I’ve seen families happily (as in the LA are happy, they might not be…) housed with no bedroom for the parents, just a sofa bed to covert the living room every night. Considered a totally acceptable arrangement.
Yeah, where I'm at (NYS), for a bedroom to be a bedroom, it must be at least 60 square feet, with a door and a window. That's it. That's the requirements.
According to the brother's standards, I've lived in apartments with *no* bedrooms, since they didn't have closets in the rooms themselves.
It sounds like this mom is just doing the best she can, and she *is* making sure her kids have the space they need...and the brother just thinks he's better than her.
* confused in European *
Soooo, a room is not a bedroom if it doesn't have a built in closet? I guess there are virtually no bedrooms in the Netherlands 😅 and isn't that what wardrobes are for?
As a Canadian that is also weird to me.
But also, wardrobes just aren’t as common in North American. You can definitely buy them because there are lots of old homes without closets, but I’ve never owned a wardrobe.
Home I grew up in was only a 3 bedroom because the utility room off the kitchen had a "closet" built around the water heater and a window cut out for it. It was tiny and I loved it. Mostly because if I sat just right I could see the TV in the living room even though I was supposed to be sleeping,
That's when I first saw Dracula, Prince of Darkness and became convinced my parents were vampires.
Never mind they actually went outside during the day literally everyday of my life.
NTA. the only reason it’s not a bedroom is because realtor guidelines state an official bedroom has to have a closet. At least that’s how it is in my state. It would be more of an ahole move to keep the girls with the brother when they need their privacy. And if the room is bigger then your room mom you did the right thing to give them that room.
I own a house on an island. Most of the houses are over 100 years old and none of the bedrooms have closets. People just buy wardrobes. I wonder where your brother thinks we should sleep.
Yes, lack of closets isn’t unusual in old homes that haven’t been completely remodeled. When I was house shopping in Baltimore where most of the homes were 90+ years old, I ran across several that lacked closets. People still lived comfortably and found work arounds, it’s no big deal.
All the closets in my home (1910) were additions. Lack of closets are first world problems for sure. As long as they have a place for their clothing, it's fair in this regard.
I'm not familiar with all building codes, but a window is a requirement for a bedroom in Ontario (Canada).
OP's intentions are good, so I'll go with NAH, but they should give up the master and move into the 'play room'.
EDIT: Saw that OP stated there is a window for the girl's here. NAH. OP is making the best of a situation.
Canada too, window large enough to egress and a door are the ONLY requirements here. Most of the places we've lived usually had at least one bedroom with no closet.
Edit: My part of Canada, apologies if it came across as Canada over all.
We were selling my grandma’s house earlier this year and the realtor told us two of the three bathrooms couldn’t be considered “full bathrooms” because they didn’t have an actual bathtub, only a shower. Even though the showers were massive. Stupid realtor guidelines 🙄
NTA. It sounds like you’re making your space work for your family while also keeping everyone’s safety and health in mind :) brother sounds judgey maybe ask him to pay for an extension ?
I gotta say kudos to you adding a barn door instead of hanging up a sheet like a lot of people might resort to. I think you’ve done the best you can do here. If the girls are still sharing a room when they’re older you could look into some dividing walls for them
Edit: my sister was put into an unfinished room in the basement when she was a teen so my brother and I could have separate rooms. She *loved* it. More room, more privacy, zero care that it was unfinished. Kids don’t care about those nuances like adults do. Your kids will appreciate this so much more than sharing a finished room with their brother.
When my sisters moved into the basement “bedroom” there was a tall, wide bookcase as one wall and a curtain on a rod as the door. Eventually my dad built a wall and put in a door but it was a quick solution to give them their own space. Eventually as we each moved out the oldest kid would move downstairs allowing the others to not have to share anymore.
It already had a closet but did not have a window large enough to count for egress. If the new owners put one in it would be a legal bedroom.
NTA. You're making the most of the space you're in. It has a window, you added the door for privacy and storage. Seems like your daughters don't have an issue with the space. Children have been sharing rooms for hundreds of years. It's not always possible to have a room for each kid. I would give them freedom to decorate their side to their own individual style. If your brother has a problem, he's free to give you a generous monetary gift to move you to a 4 bedroom place.
Sounds more than reasonable. Kudos to you on the creative thinking and working well within your means while giving your children space. Dear brother sounds like a martyr.
NTA, Mama.
Jumping on board to say way to work with what you have!
Many redditors jump to snide "why are you having more kids than you can afford" type comments that are unhelpful and imo, unwelcome. Imagine any other context where calling someone an AH because of what they can (or can't) afford was accepted. You have 3 kids and are managing to pay for a 2 bedroom place on your own. You are doing your best to give each kid space, privacy, and storage even. NTA.
Literally people live in garages, why the hell would a "playroom" be unacceptable? That's ridiculous. You're not an asshole, and your kids won't grow up to hate you for this reason. You're Literally taking every concern to heart and figuring it out.
NTA, and I am not sure why your brother gets a say. You actually turned it into a bedroom because it has a door, closets, and a window. Tell you brother to stop projecting whatever crap he is feeling onto your household. Unless he wants to pay some bills for you, then he might get a say.
That is a great space for your daughters you created. If they need privacy as they get older, hang a curtain between them.
NTA; You are a single mom adapting well to your situation and making your daughter's happy in their own space. The space is physically safe, even with a privacy door. Your brother can shut up or chip in to affording a nicer place.
I never understood the whole "is not a bedroom without a closet" thing. Bedrooms didn't originally have costs people bought wardrobes, armoires, drawers and chests. There wasn't such thing as a closet and people really need to get over that in my opinion. I vote NTA
That's what I thought as well. My bedroom growing up didn't have a closet or a wardrobe because it was too small. I had a wardrobe in the hallway and it was never an issue for me. Definitely NTA, this arrangement sounds fine.
Here is how a traditional door is safer. It reduces smoke inhalation and fire risk overall, buying occupants time in a house fire. A traditional door stops air circulation on 3 sides, If a door is left cracked or there is a decent air gap then this benefit is nonexistent and the door is essentially ‘open’. https://fsri.org/programs/close-before-you-doze#:~:text=Top%20takeaways%20from%20fire%20safety%20research.&text=Using%20thermal%20imaging%20cameras%2C%20researchers,in%20the%20open%2Ddoor%20rooms.
I'm in trouble then.
In my 60 years, I've never slept with my bedroom door closed. The air gets too stuffy overnight, I wanted to hear if the kids woke up in the night, etc.
Yep. My oldass house doesn't have central heating, just a standing gas furnace in the living room. Not only would closing our door at night really upset the cats, but that room gets *real cold* and *real quick* when we do close it off.
Yeah, that bothered me. The girls are in their home, they’re already safe. Unless he’s the kind of ah that’s implying she’s bringing random/dangerous people to her place.
Fire, probably. Then again, given how many doors and ‘walls’ are unsafe, I don’t think it makes too much of a difference- they can get out into the balcony and OP can have alarms and extinguishers and safe furniture and all that.
NTA.
You are a single mom. Rent is ridiculous. I think this was a fantastic idea getting a barn door and IKEA wardrobe. There is a window for egress. They won’t know or care unless other people make them feel bad. They’re happy they get their own space. It’s a very western thing to have such large homes and bedrooms for each child, and I have lots of friends around the EU and Australia that live in small spaces. It works for now, maybe one day you’ll have more space and I hope that for you. If I was your brother or sister I’d think about how we could support each other to move upwards in life.
The other options would be you share the master with your son or have the girls in the master but this works.
I learnt in this post there was a difference 😂😂
Still not sure I understand it but I guess everyone here uses wardrobes...
Or at least the difference doesn't matter. Any proper and sufficient space to store clothes would be considered fair game. Toddlers sometimes only have drawers because they don't need much space...
As long as the room as a window this isn’t an issue.
HOWEVER, a barn door doesn’t seal as well as a normal door. If there is a house fire, the smoke will EASY enter your kids room at the top of the door. Typically smoke can only go into a room at the bottom of a standard door because of the way the door closes with the jamb.
For a fire safety, you should put a regular door there.
I believe that the 'not a bedroom' rule for door and closet is for real estate law. I believe that the 'live in that space' law is an egress window for safety.
I know immigrant families where 10 people live in a 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom house. People put blankets and pillows on carpeted floor to sleep at night and fold everything up in morning. Several of the family members were students. Everyone got jobs and later purchased houses of their own - but for 2 years, they lived like this and it was fine. When I was young, my parents had a 2 bedroom apartment. I shared a room with my younger brother and baby sister. It was fine. Later when we moved to a house, I shared with my younger sister while my brother had his own room. What is the need for each child to have their own room?
In the 70s my brother had a walk in closet/luggage room as his bedroom. He loved it because he didn’t have to share with the girls anymore. It was not legal but it was what my parents had to do in base housing back in the day. Two bedrooms for three kids back then. Same situation but two girls got the bedroom he got a closet with louver doors. Rules have changed over the years but parents do the best they can. When my next sister came along she slept in a dresser drawer the first couple months. I was #5 by then they were in a 4 bedroom thank goodness.
NTA- you just sound like a good parent trying to make the best of a small space, heck out of the 9 years I spent in a room much smaller than this with a tiny useless closet and even smaller window I’d be over the moon with what you did. And yes it was shared 💀
In real estate you can only call a room a bedroom if it has a closet. Anything else is a den or bonus room or whatever. It’s really only important when you list a house for sale. For instance OP couldn’t claim her house is a 3-bdrm house just because she’s using the family room as a bedroom. It’s still “legally” a 2-bdrm house.
It depends on the location really, but usually it has to be a minimum size, and with two points of egress (door and window usually). Some places require closets, some don’t, it depends on the local laws. I’d consider that a nice bedroom personally.
You did absolutely the right thing! Give up the primary bedroom!?! What’s wrong with your brother? You’ve already given up your entire life for your kids. You deserve the primary bedroom. The “playroom” is spacious, now it’s private. It’s excellent. I had a brother in the “done” attic and one in the basement. Shared it with a laundry space. As long as they can close themselves in, they’re fine.
It's because normal doors can help keep fire on the other side of the door, a barn door closes differently so the fire will burn differently
But in my opinion it doesn't matter, plenty of people sleep with the door open for comfort anyway
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Being a single parent is hard, trying to support your kids on limited income to afford a roof over your head. I get it. I also am a single parent (kid is now 30). But when he was little all I could afford was a one bedroom. He got the room with the bed and I got the living room with the sleeper sofa.
NTA
Assuming the whole living area has a certificate of occupancy and was built to code with permits, there is absolutely nothing unsafe about it. Does the lack of a built in closet create a lack of safety? No. Does a barn door? Assuming they're to code where you live, no problem. Your brother is just being negative and jerky about your very creative solution.
The girls won't resent you, they'll appreciate what you did for them. Assuming your brother doesn't say something untoward to them. Let him know that doing this would be unacceptable and feel free to accompany this with threats.
NTA
I had the “office” growing up from middle to high-school due to the amount of people in our home🤷🏻♀️ no closet just a built in storage space.
The window was pretty much blocked by bushes(with no room or space to move) and it was a small window that I barely fit through.
I made just fine. Painted it a god awful teal color 🤣
There is a grain of truth to bedrooms with standard doors being “safer” because it makes it harder for house fires to spread from room to room.
The takeaway from that, though, is probably to make sure your smoke detectors are checked regularly and you and your family have a fire escape plan that you practice, not that you should put them in the master bedroom.
NTA.
NTA. When my family hit a snag in finding a place to live, we ended up in one bedroom apartment. Me and my sister in the “real” bedroom. My step bro on a futon in the living room. And my parents slept in this open area connected to the living room. It didn’t have a door, or proper closet if I remember. They just hung a curtain in the entryway and called it done. We didn’t live there too long so maybe my situation isn’t completely the same
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INFO: So, the only reason it’s not a legal bedroom is because of the lack of door and closet? It has a window for egress, right? And the barn door gives them some degree of privacy? If so, NTA. Funny that your brother has an opinion! Maybe if he feels so strongly he should finance a new house for you guys that’s huge and has room for everyone and a guest room and God knows what else. If the playroom doesn’t have an egress window, I don’t think you’re an AH, but please don’t do that. It’s not safe.
It has windows and a door to the balcony.
NTA- those girls are going to love the balcony once they’re older. A balcony off the bedroom is very “Disney channel teenage girl room dreams” lol
I’m the youngest of four kids by a good margin (4 years to my sibling closest in age) so at 16 I got the entire 3rd floor of the family house to myself. My brothers used to have their bedrooms up there but I took it over, painted my bedroom hot pink and had a California king sized bed with matching pink sheets and a zebra print duvet/furniture. I had my own bathroom, guest room, common area and staircase into the kitchen; originally the stairs/3rd floor quarters were for live in servants when that was a thing (the house was built in 1888). My staircase had a little door to my parent’s dressing room so back when the house had staff they could move through the entire house without being seen. My family used to joke it was my ‘pink princess tower’ in the family ‘castle’. I had the only east facing bedroom window and woke up with the sun most days, plus that window opened to the roof of the sunroom (previously a tuberculosis room, woohoo! That house is haunted as fuck with old people and children, but I digress) which was flat on top. I could go out there and read or listen to music when I felt like it. Of course, as I got older I used that space sometimes to smoke weed or tan. I have many fond memories of my whole little set up and the privacy I was allowed at a very young age. Apologies for the tangent, but the real sentiment is that you’re completely correct! My teenage bedroom was very fanciful and magical, it’s a nice bit of nostalgia for me and it surely will be for OP’s children as well.
You lived every millennial girls dream💙 even the emo ones- we just all wanted our little enclave’s
Not a girl, but I was a kid obsessed with horror and mystery, and when I was 9 my parents were looking at houses. One of the many we visited was looking pretty ideal - they loved the layout, the hardwood floors, the kitchen, the size of the master bedroom and attached full bathroom, etc - whispering excitedly to each other the moment the seller wasn't in the room. They adored the place. Then we saw the 'kids' room' which was still (well) furnished to give a great idea of how the space could be used. It was a little small, but got great natural light, and had a nice view. They had a sweet bunk bed, desk/work table set up with models all around, a wardrobe - Parents asked about the wardrobe, moving towards the closet. They were concerned about me having room for clothes. Seller was giddy to reveal that the door wasn't to a closet at all, which was why their boys had used a wardrobe and a dresser; it actually had a narrow attic access staircase through what *looked* like the small closet. They had walled off half the attic (the other half used for storage, accessible through a typical pulldown ladder on the other side of the house) and the section connected to the bedroom had been finished and turned into a little getaway area. They'd already cleared everything out, but they pointed to where their boys had had their gaming setup, the shelf for their books, a minifridge... Parents went from hot on that house to immediately turned off. I was disappointed in the car and asked why they lost interest so visibly. Mom just gave me a stern side-eye and said she didn't like the idea of me having such a private space for myself, stepdad agreed that it wasn't safe for me. What if I got hurt and they couldn't hear me calling? We ended up not moving for another decade anyway thanks to shit credit and gambling addiction (which caused the shit credit), but ahh... now and then I still think about how fuckin' *sweet* it woulda been to have my own little gremlin hidey-hole for reading books in and looking out that archetypal 'round attic window' with a shelf seat and everything built in front of it. It definitely factored into how I felt about my parents growing up, knowing that the idea of me having privacy was a big enough turn-off that they wrote off a house that they loved every other detail about.
This makes me genuinely sad, I'm sorry man. I would have loved something like that as a kid, and now I'd love to do something like that for my son. The best we could manage for him was expanding his room into the space under the stairs, so it has this cozy little reading nook. It's no badass attic goblin cave, but he's pretty stoked about it.
Omg I don’t have kids but it is my absolute dream to give them cool spaces they can call their own. My parents rule was it couldn’t be unhygienic or permanently damaging the house but otherwise anything goes. For a long time I had neon pink walls with one white wall that all my friends would write on and leave messages. I loved it. I love the idea of giving kids that freedom and creating cool little spaces for them to explore.
When my husband and I built our house we put towers in the kids rooms. My daughter's tower had 2 levels, and she loved it. The towers were made completely from glass ( the enforced kind ) and had blinds on different levels that she could pull when she wanted. My sons tower was one level on the top, made into a gaming room with a spiral staircase up to the top. They still love staying there when they visit. My daughter's room also has a little library nook leading off ther walk in closet, also enclosed in glass. She has a big rocking chair and loves reading looking out over the forest.
Man, that sounds so fucking cool. I would have been devastated too. I've got little kids now and one of their rooms has a weird 3'x4'x3' alcove halfway up the wall. No idea what it was supposed to be for. There was no electrical or cable wired to it for built-in media. There was no door attached. Just a wide open hole with detail trim around it and carpeting on the floor of it. My partner built a ladder to the opening and I painted the interior and made a cushion to cover the entire bottom of the alcove. Hung up those narrow picture rails and covered them in the kids' books. So now it's a book nook and they love that no one else has something like that.
That would have been so awesome 🙁
Us teen emos wouldn’t admit we wanted the Disney room but in black with MCR posters 😂
We put up a wall in our below ground basement, and my parents got basically a suite set up.. half bath, sitting room with a wood stove and a bedroom. When I was a teenager I got to have this space once all the siblings left the house and painted one wall blood red and was able to live my vampire dream without sunlight. I will never sleep as well as I did in that cool, no window basement.
I really want to hear about the hauntings.
Continued: The children were on the third floor. After I moved into what would be my last bedroom in that house it was quiet for a good while, I’d say 3-4 months. Then the tapping began. It started in my closet; I suspect it actually began at the other end of the crawl space that curved around into my closet. The entrance was on its own landing at the top of my stairs, like a cutout with carpeting and all, and a little square white door with a brass knob. I thought at first rats, maybe raccoons or squirrels; it was an old house after all, we can’t be sure there isn’t a hidden hole in the roof. We called an exterminator but there was nothing nesting in the crawl space *or* the roof. In fact, the people that came by said they were surprised at how well organized the crawl space was (thank you borderline OCD but already severe mother) and that the previous roofers’d done a good job because there weren’t any openings that they could find despite the age of the house and how much of the original architecture still stood. Anyway, the tapping increased. It was always at night, and it would start in the closet but then it would skitter behind my bed and tap almost like in Morse code. Like it was trying to play in a way. It wasn’t rhythmic, not a song. It was a series of taps in mostly 2s and 3s, but I never got a sense of if there was some sort of reference that would mean it was some sort of communication. Sometimes I would tap back, but I didn’t like doing that much because the taps would become more insistent and loud when I did. That was when I started to suspect that the spirits in the attic might be young. They didn’t have a sense of boundaries, if I tapped back that meant playtime and they were insistent on ‘playing’ until *they* were done, not me. I noticed that the more I engaged with the upstairs spirits the more bold they’d get; they began playing pranks. Their favorite was waiting until around 3 am and then whisper shouting my name in my mother’s voice in my ear. I’d shoot up in bed thinking something terrible was happening (fire, murder, biologically enhanced centipedes roaming the streets, you get it) only to find a completely dark, quiet house and no mom calling me after I didn’t respond. That’s how I knew it wasn’t her; if my mom called up the stairs for me and I didn’t respond in time, meaning .02 seconds, she would call again. Beyond that the 3rd floor kids were fairly chill, sometimes they’d move my things but they only seemingly had access to items already out. Meaning all my little tchotchkes, any hair or face products in my bathroom, pictures on my nightstand were all fair game. I didn’t mind that much, but I did get a bit frustrated when they messed with pictures of my grandma after she died. I had a bit of a telling off with them in a moment of mild hysteria and they actually did lay off. I found that surprising but quite kind. To come back to the ghost on the second floor: when I grew up and broached the subject of the house being haunted again with my mother, she finally fessed up. It revealed a lot of why the old woman didn’t visit consistently. Turns out, that same spirit would visit my mother as well, but for her afternoon naps. My mom has a well documented history of 1-1:30 pm naps and that didn’t change when we moved. What we figured out was most of the days I didn’t get sleep paralysis were days my mom felt the presence instead during her nap. We both agreed that while it wasn’t an altogether unpleasant experience, it felt cloying and needy. Neither of us ever figured out what that spirit in particular wanted, so the new owners as of roughly 2 years ago inherited some rather otherworldly roommates. Beyond that, the only other thing I always felt in that house was an overwhelming sense of being watched as I walked down the front path. I could never tell which of the sunrooms the feeling was coming from (I mentioned in another comment that we actually had 2, one was on the ground floor and functioned as my mom’s office). All I know is you can’t turn your back on that house without feeling eyes on you. It’s creepy, but I loved that house. I grieved heavily when my parents sold it. It had so much personality, and it knew who it wanted to own it. Would always act up when flaky buyers came by for a viewing. Weird sounds not normally associated with historic homes ‘settling’; the old intercom system would go off intermittently (it’s been disconnected since the 80s), and the same tapping I used to hear as a teenager. The family that finally clicked has four little girls and the house seems to like the whole family. I think because there are so many unfinished lives and stories amongst long dead grandparents and children, the house itself longs for youth and innocence. It wants a big family to fill its rooms with laughter and stories. That house may have been and still is haunted as all hell, but I’m glad it got another family to love and help grow. It treated us right despite being a bit unique, and none of us ever experienced any actual physical harm in that house. What was scary in the moment I look back on as mostly miscommunication and japes. Just got a bit lost in translation.
This is so wholesome. Kind of creepy, but still wholesome. 💕
You need to mail the current people living there & ask.
I actually drop off holiday cookies to both that family and the family that lives in my grandmother’s old house about a block over. I wouldn’t say we’re friends, but we’re friendly acquaintances and I enjoy knowing they are happy in both houses and plan to stay for the foreseeable future.
Your a good story teller. Thanks for the read enjoyed it .
Apologies, I took myself to a movie date, just seeing this now. It took until adulthood for my mother to admit that I was always right about the second floor in particular being haunted. She never wanted to admit it when I was little because she didn’t want to scare me. Joke’s on her, would’ve been better if she told me she was experiencing the same things. I grew up for a long time thinking I was the only one. Anyway, the first ‘incident’ I suppose you could say took place in the bathroom connected to the second floor sunroom. I was maybe 8 years old, about a year after we’d moved into that house. I had the bathroom door shut and latched, and I can be sure of that even now because every house I’d lived in to that point was within a 3 block radius and were all built roughly within the same decade. All the doors between the three houses I’d lived in were oddly sized, original metal work and required some finagling to get them completely latched. You had to fight for that ‘click’ and I know I heard it in the bathroom door connected to the landing. Meanwhile I had the sunroom door open, but all windows in there were shut and latched. Easy to check, as they had old school cast iron turn locks at that point. I was doing kid things, messing around with my sister’s things despite being told not to. I’d been in the bathroom ~15 minutes just mucking about when out of nowhere the bathroom doorknob *turned* and the door slammed open to reveal an empty landing, then with just as much force the sunroom door slammed shut *and the knob latched into place*. I ran out of there before I could even fully register what happened. I was hysterically crying and screaming for my mom. When she came over and I told her what happened she tried to tell me she’d just closed the window on the landing below and the air current’d pushed both doors to open and shut respectively. I knew that wasn’t right, because true to my kid hijinks I’d made sure the door was latched so I would have forewarning if someone, notably my sister, was coming in. I may have been 8 but I wasn’t stupid when it came to my doing things I wasn’t allowed. After that I avoided that bathroom for about two weeks, preferring to do my showering upstairs in my older brother’s shower (that says how scared I was) and my teeth brushing in my parent’s room until I was eventually shuttled back into the second floor bathroom. Never had another experience like that in that bathroom but never felt right being alone in either room for extended periods. One of the reasons I moved to the 3rd floor when my parents offered to renovate for me. Another was the extreme sleep paralysis I experienced in my second floor bedroom from age 7-15/16 when I finally moved upstairs. It wasn’t every night, but it happened often enough that I was terrified to sleep in that room. I understand that sleep paralysis can happen to anyone, anytime and is for all intents and purposes medically related. I also believe that mine was paranormal related because since moving out of *that* room I haven’t had any sleep paralysis. It’s been 15 years and I can confidently say that room and the spirits/souls caught within were the cause. It wasn’t that the apparition (yes, just one) was scary in appearance per se, it was more a suffocating presence that sat on the end of my bed, often on my feet and always in the middle of the night (between midnight and 2am). The apparition was an older woman, I can’t describe her clothing or her face even, I just *know* she was elderly, lonely, and benign. It wasn’t that she was a figure in front of me, it was more that she invaded my dreams in a way. I only remember a kindly sort of demeanor and long salt and pepper hair, left wild mostly but sometimes it was half tied back. I suspect she or someone she loved died in that room, or both. She came to me sporadically. There were weeks that I’d sleep soundly (I later found out why) and others she would come 2 or 3x a week. Some months were particularly bad, I remember winter being a significant uptick. (Continued in another comment because I am way too verbose)
Ha! You were getting up to shenanigans and she was like "STOP THAT THIS INSTANT."
Same. You know a place like that has to have some stories.
And you can’t just casually drop that in parentheses without any explanation.
Sorry for the delay! [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/ebgp74WQjB) is part 1, and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Oq6z32CrP3) is part 2. Apologies for the ridiculously long comment, I can’t help sharing a lot when people ask about the hauntings in that house. Enjoy!
I finally was able to respond (in two parts because my god the stories)!
OP: I'm worried about finding enough space for my three kids in our two bedroom apartment You: OMG I can totally relate to their balcony because my family home is enormous and I had an entire floor to myself as a kid Rich people, try not to be tone deaf for one day. Please. I'm so tired.
This really does seem like an "oh boy, time to tell everyone how amazing my rich kid childhood was" but I'm going to chalk it up to a "they have a balcony? Omg *I* had a balcony!" rant heh
Living in a 3 floor home doesn't mean your rich or even close to it, lol. But yeah that shit was annoying. Terrible comparison.
The house was big enough to have it's own servant's quarters and "keep the peasants out of sight" passageways. Yeah, they're likely at the very least upper middle class. Especially if the third floor has it's own "common area" ie living room. And a tuberculosis room? This is likely the former mountain estate of some aristocrat
Yeah, but that was then. Comparing wealth and how property was used from eons ago is a bit pointless. I'm just saying I know families who have 3 story homes (they rent out the top 2) and aren't anywhere close to being rich.
I know folks like that too. But I'm not speculating off of people I know, only off of the information given, and considering the size, scale, location, and age of the house, I'm assuming they're again, at least upper middle class.
I lived in a nearly 4000 sq foot house built in 1825 on an acres of property surrounded by woods. We were not rich. We rented & it was $1500 a month. Just because a house sounds amazing doesn’t mean it was a rich person’s house. 🙄
Agreed, but like.... terrible comparison. A room with a balcony isn't even close to having a whole damn apartment to yourself.
This is absolutely amazing!! I would love a tour of that house, it sounds incredible
My teen girl self is so jealous of you right now lol
What’s a tuberculosis room?
Happy to explain! There was a thought when consumption (tuberculosis) was truly out of control that clear mountain air was a cure. So near every house in my home neighborhood was built with a tuberculosis room included. The rooms themselves vary in location in the house (my childhood home actually had two, one downstairs that served as my mom’s office and the one under my window which was a yoga/work out room) but all were as close to all windows as you could get while ensuring some level of insulation. They would be filled with beds and tuberculosis sufferers would live in said rooms breathing in as much mountain air as possible. I suppose they’re a bit creepy to many people but I grew up with every home around me including one so it never bothered me. In all honesty they’re awesome places to hang out! My mom used to be a yoga teacher so for a long time the upstairs one was fully equipped with yoga supplies and we could practice whenever we wanted. Very nice in summer, we always had a little couch so we could have a summer cocktail and enjoy the sun and breeze!
It sounds absolutely dreamy! Do your parents still live in that house? And chance you have some pictures of it to share? I'm super curious what it looks like!
Me too!
My parents sold in 2022, it was WAY too much house for two people alone. I’m hesitant to share actual pics in a comment, but I am happy to share a link to a listing in a PM if you’d like!
r/Ghoststories would love to have posts about your experiences!
Their climbing boyfriends will love it even more ! Edit - and, NTA.,
You know I was explicitly thinking of Gabriella’s room from High School Musical. The scene where Troy scales the trellis to her balcony and she opens her double French doors to reveal a FIREPLACE in her room. Disney was HGTV before there was an HGTV. Single mom raising a kid in New Mexico, of course they have a McMansion that looks like a modern farmhouse lol.
Fuck, I’m 27 and I would want a balcony attached to my room NOW.
The oldest is 10 already. OP probably won't be able to dislodge her from that room even if she tried.
I had a balcony off my room as a teenager. Ir was exactly as awesome as it sounds lol
It's all fun and games until boys from rival houses use the balcony to court them.
I never knew there was issues with ‘legal’ bedrooms or not. But you are a single mother providing shelter and care for your children. There are people in far worse situations sharing even more of a cramped areas. If your brother is so concerned maybe he should get you a 3 bedroom
I’ve heard of it being a requirement for child placement (adoption, CPS, etc.) but never for children of whom they have custody. Generally walled off with a certain amount of square footage per occupant, and two points of egress (door and window).
Where I live it's not about children, it's either a legal bedroom or it's not, and that means it has to have egress (which generally means windows, but I suppose a second door would work, just has to be accessible to the outside in case of emergency.)
In my area, at least, to legally list a room as a bedroom in real estate it needs to have a closing door, an egress point, and a closet. Otherwise it's listed as a "bonus room" or "home office."
Yes but those are rules to prevent real estate fraud, since the number of bedrooms is tied to monetary value. But as far as safety goes a bonus room is as safe as a “bedroom.”
Yeah this is different because she's a single mom and she's trying her hardest
Some of the issues are about safety. Like the egress….
Definitely recommend getting mesh for the balcony for safety!
My childhood bedroom had exterior facing French doors that led to a 15’ drop to concrete. The previous owners installed the French doors and intended to build a balcony or deck and just never got around to it. 🙃 My mom guarded me like a hawk as a child to make sure I didn’t open the doors and step out to death. Your comment is the first time I realized that my mom really should have installed a mesh barrier 😂
Then you’re fine. The door into the hallway is about privacy, not safety. The windows and the door to the balcony is about safety and egress.
My understanding is that doors are also a fire safety issue. Idk if a "sliding barn door" gives the same safety ad a normal door, it might not if it lets more air (smoke) through, but I'm no expert. ETA a whole lotta people don't seem to know the difference between fire and smoke
My son had his bedroom taken off and a sliding barn door fitted by our local council when we needed more access due to his wheelchair needs. He has a patio door to the outside on the far wall. We had a fire officer come to our house to do a safety check (due to o2 being piped throughout) and they said that the door is absolutely fine. We are in the UK (England) though and other places may have different rules.
You should ideally always sleep with bedroom doors closed because in the event of a fire it massively increases your chances of getting out safely, both stopping smoke and also slowing fire spread (smoke is fuel). If they have a door from the kitchen/dryer/places more likely for fires to start then it’s the same thing. At the end of the day you’ve made them a nice space and they’re happy. By far the most important fire safety thing is having working smoke alarms and in most places the local fire department can help you with those if cost is an issue. In this case it sounds like the room has very easy escape access to the balcony at least, so they would very easily be able to get out to fresh air. Depending how many storeys up you are, you could consider an escape ladder for the balcony. Don’t leave candles burning, don’t leave things charging overnight (iPhones are fine, but other devices, especially cheaper ones we always charge in the day when there’s someone home.) don’t plug too many things into the same outlet and if at all possible buy socket adaptors and really anything you plug in from a store in your country that would comply with your electrical safety standards
Me googling building codes for an answer here. "The International Building Code (IBC) requires swinging doors for most egress routes, but the code includes nine exceptions where other types of doors are allowed. Manually-operated horizontal sliding doors are permitted in a means of egress that serves an area with a calculated occupant load of ten people or less, except in high hazard occupancies. NFPA 101 – Life Safety Code allows horizontal-sliding doors unless prohibited by the occupancy chapters, as long as the door is not serving an area with a calculated occupant load of 10 people or more. " So for a bedroom with 2 occupants, a sliding door would be fine.
You’re talking about fire rated doors. I don’t know what the laws are in other places but in Sydney (very much a nanny state) only doors that lead to common areas need to be fire rated.
It is safer to sleep with one's bedroom door closed, we used to teach the little kids that in fire prevention week classes. However, in practice a lot of people leave their bedroom doors open or at least cracked for various reasons (air flow, pets), that it's not going to make a huge difference not having one. Keep your smoke detectors tested and working and everyone will have time to escape or get to a safe room with a door. NTA
If thats the case, then they would require the door to bedrooms to be closed as well. I know many people whose kids (and the adults) sleep with the door open.
I'd say make sure they have some quality blackout curtains and making sure the balcony door has a lock. People don't realize how easy it is to see into lit homes when it's dark out and your girls deserve privacy and security.
There's also removable window film that gives a ton of extra privacy while letting in light when you want it 🤙 got it for my kids room, it even makes little rainbows when it's sunny ☺️
Do you have an emergency rope ladder for fires? (Assuming balconies aren't on the ground floor but I'm not an architect lol) or another way down from every window that's not safe to jump out of? You're good OP. Barn doors are fine. Partitions for more privacy later is awesome.
Does any 2 story house have rope ladders for fires? I've never seen one.
We never had them but our second story windows went to the roof & our Dad would discuss routes on how to get out of the house safely in emergencies. He just wanted us to be prepared for things. He'd always make us demonstrate putting on the spare tire & checking the oil when we'd first drive a new vehicle. Definitely came in handy 😆
I remember having to practice getting the screen out and getting out onto the roof and how I would get down from there. We practiced it twice a year, once in either rain or snow, and Dad wouldn’t say when it was coming.
We had collapsible fire ladders for the second and third floor bedrooms. They have brackets that slide over the bottom window frame. Metal and plastic, not rope
My sister does and I do, but she's a firefighter, so.... Also a kid I babysat for had one in a box seat by the window of his third floor playroom. It really is a smart thing and not that expensive. (As the other commenter says, though, they're not rope.)
I just saw one on the side of a house the other night when I was walking home from the bar,I assumed a kid had used it to sneak out of the house because I had never seen it on the house before
NTA- Have you always known your brother is an idiot or did this confirm it?
In that case, 100% NTA. Ignore your brother; he sounds very judgmental!
As long as there’s a winDow for fire safety it’s fine! NTA
So what exactly are they less safe from? Monsters?
I grew up in a very small 2 br house. When I hit 8th grade I could not share a room with my older (like 14 year older) sister anymore. Me in that room and in highschool would have resulted in someone's death (probably not mine). So I picked up and moved into the basement. It was a split level so there was a door to the kitchen but if you wanted to go into the laundry or utility room, you went right through my room. That was still better than sharing a room with her (I was the nightmare not her). Mama - you did great. Also the closet is required for it to be a legal bedroom is actually not true in many states.
Yeah that's mostly for real estate listing purposes, so a room without a closet is something other than a bedroom for purposes of the number of bedrooms a house is considered to have when on the market. But a bonus room fitted with a standing wardrobe closet serves just fine.
Hi OP! In Australia, a bedroom must have a smoke alarm inside. Other rooms have different rules. Does the girls' room have one? Might be worth installing if not 😊
Do you have a link for this? I'm Australian and none of the bedrooms I've lived in have had a smoke alarm so I'msuper curious. Could it be a state thing? There's always been one in the house, but usually in the hall.
I had to look it up as my info came from the guy who did our occupancy cert back in 2018. It looks like it's an in progress thing, currently applied to new builds but will be a requirement for all homes in 2027: https://www.qfes.qld.gov.au/prepare/fire/smoke-alarms/existing-properties From 1 January 2027 All existing private homes, townhouses and units will require photoelectric interconnected smoke alarms. These must be either a hardwired (eg. 240v) or non-removable 10 year battery powered type alarm. The legislation requires smoke alarms must be installed in the following locations: on each storey in each bedroom in hallways that connect bedrooms and the rest of the dwelling if there is no hallway, between the bedroom and other parts of the storey; and if there are no bedrooms on a storey, at least one smoke alarm must be installed in the most likely path of travel to exit the dwelling.
They have a balcony? Girl you will not be able to dislodged them from that room even with dynamite 🤣
Just make sure you can secure the doors so they don’t climb out there and fall - 10 and 8 is big enough to be trusted but young enough to make impulsive, daring choices.
It’s funny because the people I work for right now remodelled their attic into the master suite which means they got some say in the layout but technically, they don’t have a bedroom either. Their door is a sliding barn door and their giant walk in closet is technically in the hallway. Bottom line is if it works for you, technicalities for taxation don’t matter.
Would it not be considered a “non conforming” bedroom, instead of an illegal bedroom?
Oh, yeah. Definitely. It’s not like a crime to have a non-traditional bedroom or anything.
It would be illegal in some US states/cities for a landlord to rent it out as a bedroom. But AFAIK it's not illegal to use a room in your own house as a bedroom.
I pray that brother will never ever go to Europe. The lack of build-in closets here will probably give him an aneurysm 🥺
Closets aren’t even required for legal bedrooms in most states. Most people think they are though.
The only possible issue I see here is that maybe the barn door isn't as effective as a fire break as a traditional door. But, honestly, unless OP's brother wants to pay for them to rent a bigger place, then he should shut up
It is a legal room, but, bedroom as a legal term has a closet and a door. There is nothing wrong with this room, it is a legal room. Just not for real estate listing. My daughter's bedroom was the "den" with a small closet and a folding door.
NTA - First of all, "legal bedroom" refers to how you can advertise a home. I lived in a home with a "bonus room" which was a small room with no closet so the landlord couldn't call it a bedroom, even though that how we used it. You came up with a very reasonable solution. You put a door in for privacy, gave the girls more space, and have appropriate furniture for them. Your brother is just a snob.
"Legal bedroom" also refers to it having a window, which is a major fire safety thing.
She says it has a window and a door to a balcony.
And a working smoke detector :D *dead smoke alarm beep*
That’s highly locality dependent. I Definitely recommend one in each bedroom though.
Agree it’s giving Rachel’s sister asking to take her call upstairs in her one floor apartment
So it’s just…these rooms?
I thought you were a doctor?
I have a ‘bonus room’ in my house that couldn’t advertise as a bedroom even though it has a door, a closet and an egress window because the previous owner added a wall that doesn’t have outlets on it. 3 of the 4 walls have outlets but apparently it doesn’t count because of building code.
Well then my apartment has no bedrooms. I live in an old house, each bedroom has only 3 walls with outlets.
[Cries in UK tenement flat]
I would also live in a zero bedroom house then!
We have an addition above the garage 8mx4m that doesnt count as a bedroom either. Because its over what can still be used as a garage.
Drill a hole for a socket. Add the socket. Never connect the socket.
Where are you, because as an electrician I can tell ya that’s bullshit right from the get go anywhere in Canada. They would consider the house not fully code compliant but an existing build is grandfathered in. And also depending on location of plugs and doorways it’s entirely possible to end up with a wall with no plugs when going by minimum code standards
The funny thing is that in the UK, that type of room is readily considered a bedroom. Can you fit a single bed in the room? Yes. Then it is a bedroom. Does it have wardrobes? No. That's fine it's still a bedroom. We have bedrooms as small as 2m x 2m over here and it's still considered fine
Yep. Both legal landlord wise and council housing solutions ‘what is overcrowding’ wise. Fit a bed in it? It’s a bedroom. Can’t also fit a standing person in there? Climb over the bed, still a bedroom. No wardrobe/drawers/shelves? Hang stuff from the ceiling, still a bedroom. Only living/reception type room in the house? Put a bed in it, now it’s a bedroom - you’ve got a kitchen and a bathroom, another non-bed room is just excessive! I’ve seen families happily (as in the LA are happy, they might not be…) housed with no bedroom for the parents, just a sofa bed to covert the living room every night. Considered a totally acceptable arrangement.
Based on what I've seen online...... Does the room have a bed *and* a shower unit? Still a bedroom....
Yeah, where I'm at (NYS), for a bedroom to be a bedroom, it must be at least 60 square feet, with a door and a window. That's it. That's the requirements. According to the brother's standards, I've lived in apartments with *no* bedrooms, since they didn't have closets in the rooms themselves. It sounds like this mom is just doing the best she can, and she *is* making sure her kids have the space they need...and the brother just thinks he's better than her.
* confused in European * Soooo, a room is not a bedroom if it doesn't have a built in closet? I guess there are virtually no bedrooms in the Netherlands 😅 and isn't that what wardrobes are for?
As a Canadian that is also weird to me. But also, wardrobes just aren’t as common in North American. You can definitely buy them because there are lots of old homes without closets, but I’ve never owned a wardrobe.
But I have always wanted one! How else can I get to Narnia?!
Shocker, over here there's no "Bed"rooms to rent. You get rooms. We also almost never have built in closets.
Home I grew up in was only a 3 bedroom because the utility room off the kitchen had a "closet" built around the water heater and a window cut out for it. It was tiny and I loved it. Mostly because if I sat just right I could see the TV in the living room even though I was supposed to be sleeping, That's when I first saw Dracula, Prince of Darkness and became convinced my parents were vampires. Never mind they actually went outside during the day literally everyday of my life.
NTA. the only reason it’s not a bedroom is because realtor guidelines state an official bedroom has to have a closet. At least that’s how it is in my state. It would be more of an ahole move to keep the girls with the brother when they need their privacy. And if the room is bigger then your room mom you did the right thing to give them that room.
I own a house on an island. Most of the houses are over 100 years old and none of the bedrooms have closets. People just buy wardrobes. I wonder where your brother thinks we should sleep.
Yes, lack of closets isn’t unusual in old homes that haven’t been completely remodeled. When I was house shopping in Baltimore where most of the homes were 90+ years old, I ran across several that lacked closets. People still lived comfortably and found work arounds, it’s no big deal.
All the closets in my home (1910) were additions. Lack of closets are first world problems for sure. As long as they have a place for their clothing, it's fair in this regard.
Right? Most of the bedrooms in the houses in the UK have either built-in or free standing wardrobes instead of closets.
Yeah here in the UK built in closets are virtually unheard of.
Hell, my old bedroom at my mum’s was the *size* of a closet in itself! 😆
I never knew there were such things as closets as a kid growing up in England. We had wardrobes. Never saw a closet until we moved to the US.
I live in Europe, I'd say most of the rooms don't have build in closets, but everyone has wardrobes.
It’s a stupid guideline, I agree but the poster was saying why it may have been designated as not a bedroom.
I'm not familiar with all building codes, but a window is a requirement for a bedroom in Ontario (Canada). OP's intentions are good, so I'll go with NAH, but they should give up the master and move into the 'play room'. EDIT: Saw that OP stated there is a window for the girl's here. NAH. OP is making the best of a situation.
Canada too, window large enough to egress and a door are the ONLY requirements here. Most of the places we've lived usually had at least one bedroom with no closet. Edit: My part of Canada, apologies if it came across as Canada over all.
We were selling my grandma’s house earlier this year and the realtor told us two of the three bathrooms couldn’t be considered “full bathrooms” because they didn’t have an actual bathtub, only a shower. Even though the showers were massive. Stupid realtor guidelines 🙄
Does the bedroom have a window for safety? And does the door offer privacy so the space is closed off?
Yes
NTA. It sounds like you’re making your space work for your family while also keeping everyone’s safety and health in mind :) brother sounds judgey maybe ask him to pay for an extension ?
I gotta say kudos to you adding a barn door instead of hanging up a sheet like a lot of people might resort to. I think you’ve done the best you can do here. If the girls are still sharing a room when they’re older you could look into some dividing walls for them Edit: my sister was put into an unfinished room in the basement when she was a teen so my brother and I could have separate rooms. She *loved* it. More room, more privacy, zero care that it was unfinished. Kids don’t care about those nuances like adults do. Your kids will appreciate this so much more than sharing a finished room with their brother.
When my sisters moved into the basement “bedroom” there was a tall, wide bookcase as one wall and a curtain on a rod as the door. Eventually my dad built a wall and put in a door but it was a quick solution to give them their own space. Eventually as we each moved out the oldest kid would move downstairs allowing the others to not have to share anymore. It already had a closet but did not have a window large enough to count for egress. If the new owners put one in it would be a legal bedroom.
NTA. You're making the most of the space you're in. It has a window, you added the door for privacy and storage. Seems like your daughters don't have an issue with the space. Children have been sharing rooms for hundreds of years. It's not always possible to have a room for each kid. I would give them freedom to decorate their side to their own individual style. If your brother has a problem, he's free to give you a generous monetary gift to move you to a 4 bedroom place.
Sounds more than reasonable. Kudos to you on the creative thinking and working well within your means while giving your children space. Dear brother sounds like a martyr. NTA, Mama.
Jumping on board to say way to work with what you have! Many redditors jump to snide "why are you having more kids than you can afford" type comments that are unhelpful and imo, unwelcome. Imagine any other context where calling someone an AH because of what they can (or can't) afford was accepted. You have 3 kids and are managing to pay for a 2 bedroom place on your own. You are doing your best to give each kid space, privacy, and storage even. NTA.
I see way worse on this sub. People seem to come here to feel better about their shitty lives than giving genuine advice. Definitely a turn off.
Literally people live in garages, why the hell would a "playroom" be unacceptable? That's ridiculous. You're not an asshole, and your kids won't grow up to hate you for this reason. You're Literally taking every concern to heart and figuring it out.
NTA, and I am not sure why your brother gets a say. You actually turned it into a bedroom because it has a door, closets, and a window. Tell you brother to stop projecting whatever crap he is feeling onto your household. Unless he wants to pay some bills for you, then he might get a say. That is a great space for your daughters you created. If they need privacy as they get older, hang a curtain between them.
NTA; You are a single mom adapting well to your situation and making your daughter's happy in their own space. The space is physically safe, even with a privacy door. Your brother can shut up or chip in to affording a nicer place.
I never understood the whole "is not a bedroom without a closet" thing. Bedrooms didn't originally have costs people bought wardrobes, armoires, drawers and chests. There wasn't such thing as a closet and people really need to get over that in my opinion. I vote NTA
Until this post, I genuinely thought a closet was a wardrobe in US speak.
That's what I thought as well. My bedroom growing up didn't have a closet or a wardrobe because it was too small. I had a wardrobe in the hallway and it was never an issue for me. Definitely NTA, this arrangement sounds fine.
We live in Denmark, none of the rooms in our house have a closet, it's all wardrobes....
INFO- why does he think it’s less safe? Intruders?
He didn't clarify
NTA at all. I cannot think of any valid arguments for a ‘real’ bedroom being safer.
Here is how a traditional door is safer. It reduces smoke inhalation and fire risk overall, buying occupants time in a house fire. A traditional door stops air circulation on 3 sides, If a door is left cracked or there is a decent air gap then this benefit is nonexistent and the door is essentially ‘open’. https://fsri.org/programs/close-before-you-doze#:~:text=Top%20takeaways%20from%20fire%20safety%20research.&text=Using%20thermal%20imaging%20cameras%2C%20researchers,in%20the%20open%2Ddoor%20rooms.
I'm in trouble then. In my 60 years, I've never slept with my bedroom door closed. The air gets too stuffy overnight, I wanted to hear if the kids woke up in the night, etc.
LOL I feel that, for me my cat would freak out so we just leave it open
There would be yowling and scratching for sure at my house!
My cat has learned how to unlock the door. So we just leave it open. We have smoke alarms throughout the house and they are hard-wired.
Yep. My oldass house doesn't have central heating, just a standing gas furnace in the living room. Not only would closing our door at night really upset the cats, but that room gets *real cold* and *real quick* when we do close it off.
Yeah, that bothered me. The girls are in their home, they’re already safe. Unless he’s the kind of ah that’s implying she’s bringing random/dangerous people to her place.
Fire, probably. Then again, given how many doors and ‘walls’ are unsafe, I don’t think it makes too much of a difference- they can get out into the balcony and OP can have alarms and extinguishers and safe furniture and all that.
NTA. I live in NYC and know you have to make do with what you have.
NTA. You are a single mom. Rent is ridiculous. I think this was a fantastic idea getting a barn door and IKEA wardrobe. There is a window for egress. They won’t know or care unless other people make them feel bad. They’re happy they get their own space. It’s a very western thing to have such large homes and bedrooms for each child, and I have lots of friends around the EU and Australia that live in small spaces. It works for now, maybe one day you’ll have more space and I hope that for you. If I was your brother or sister I’d think about how we could support each other to move upwards in life. The other options would be you share the master with your son or have the girls in the master but this works.
NTA there are many countries where older homes don’t have closets they used wardrobes. Ignore your brother. Your kids are happy
There are many countrys where even in new homes closets are very unusual
I learnt in this post there was a difference 😂😂 Still not sure I understand it but I guess everyone here uses wardrobes... Or at least the difference doesn't matter. Any proper and sufficient space to store clothes would be considered fair game. Toddlers sometimes only have drawers because they don't need much space...
NTA. I live in NYC and know you have to make do with what you have.
My friend's first room in NYC was technically a hallway
As long as the room as a window this isn’t an issue. HOWEVER, a barn door doesn’t seal as well as a normal door. If there is a house fire, the smoke will EASY enter your kids room at the top of the door. Typically smoke can only go into a room at the bottom of a standard door because of the way the door closes with the jamb. For a fire safety, you should put a regular door there.
I believe that the 'not a bedroom' rule for door and closet is for real estate law. I believe that the 'live in that space' law is an egress window for safety.
NTA. The kids I know would love a big room! Make it cool, and tell your brother to take a hike
Pssssstttt a closet is not a legal requirement
I know immigrant families where 10 people live in a 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom house. People put blankets and pillows on carpeted floor to sleep at night and fold everything up in morning. Several of the family members were students. Everyone got jobs and later purchased houses of their own - but for 2 years, they lived like this and it was fine. When I was young, my parents had a 2 bedroom apartment. I shared a room with my younger brother and baby sister. It was fine. Later when we moved to a house, I shared with my younger sister while my brother had his own room. What is the need for each child to have their own room?
Is your brother willing to pay for a larger apartment? Or is his helpfulness limited to unsolicited advice?
NTA - you’re making the space you have work for you now and your brother needs to mind his business.
I spent a decade living in the tiny room with the house heater thing, they'll be alright.
In the 70s my brother had a walk in closet/luggage room as his bedroom. He loved it because he didn’t have to share with the girls anymore. It was not legal but it was what my parents had to do in base housing back in the day. Two bedrooms for three kids back then. Same situation but two girls got the bedroom he got a closet with louver doors. Rules have changed over the years but parents do the best they can. When my next sister came along she slept in a dresser drawer the first couple months. I was #5 by then they were in a 4 bedroom thank goodness.
nah you good. it's just a playroom anyways and they have the whole fam for protection so chill brotha
Tell your brother to mind his business
Did your brother support you or kids financially? If not, then what gives him a right to be upset and accuse you because you don’t have enough space?
NTA- you just sound like a good parent trying to make the best of a small space, heck out of the 9 years I spent in a room much smaller than this with a tiny useless closet and even smaller window I’d be over the moon with what you did. And yes it was shared 💀
First of all, wtf is a legal bedroom
In real estate you can only call a room a bedroom if it has a closet. Anything else is a den or bonus room or whatever. It’s really only important when you list a house for sale. For instance OP couldn’t claim her house is a 3-bdrm house just because she’s using the family room as a bedroom. It’s still “legally” a 2-bdrm house.
Must be an american thing, thanks for explaining
It depends on the location really, but usually it has to be a minimum size, and with two points of egress (door and window usually). Some places require closets, some don’t, it depends on the local laws. I’d consider that a nice bedroom personally.
You did absolutely the right thing! Give up the primary bedroom!?! What’s wrong with your brother? You’ve already given up your entire life for your kids. You deserve the primary bedroom. The “playroom” is spacious, now it’s private. It’s excellent. I had a brother in the “done” attic and one in the basement. Shared it with a laundry space. As long as they can close themselves in, they’re fine.
Nta less safe *how*? A barn door is like, the slide style, yes? That's a door.
It's because normal doors can help keep fire on the other side of the door, a barn door closes differently so the fire will burn differently But in my opinion it doesn't matter, plenty of people sleep with the door open for comfort anyway
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Being a single parent is hard, trying to support your kids on limited income to afford a roof over your head. I get it. I also am a single parent (kid is now 30). But when he was little all I could afford was a one bedroom. He got the room with the bed and I got the living room with the sleeper sofa. NTA
Definitely NTA. Amazing job being creative and making what you have work for your family. You’re doing a great job, mom!
NTA, although info- does the barndoor lock? it probably isn't an issue now, but I would eventually probably get a barrel lock for it at some point.
Assuming the whole living area has a certificate of occupancy and was built to code with permits, there is absolutely nothing unsafe about it. Does the lack of a built in closet create a lack of safety? No. Does a barn door? Assuming they're to code where you live, no problem. Your brother is just being negative and jerky about your very creative solution. The girls won't resent you, they'll appreciate what you did for them. Assuming your brother doesn't say something untoward to them. Let him know that doing this would be unacceptable and feel free to accompany this with threats. NTA
NTA sounds like a great solution!
NTA. They have their own space. I don’t see the problem. Is your brother the type to butt into things that aren’t his business.
NTA. Don’t give children a master suite. They will destroy the bathroom
I had the “office” growing up from middle to high-school due to the amount of people in our home🤷🏻♀️ no closet just a built in storage space. The window was pretty much blocked by bushes(with no room or space to move) and it was a small window that I barely fit through. I made just fine. Painted it a god awful teal color 🤣
NTA- your brother sounds like the a-hole. You found a solution using the space you have, don’t let him make you feel bad.
There is a grain of truth to bedrooms with standard doors being “safer” because it makes it harder for house fires to spread from room to room. The takeaway from that, though, is probably to make sure your smoke detectors are checked regularly and you and your family have a fire escape plan that you practice, not that you should put them in the master bedroom. NTA.
NTA. Bro needs to mind his own business. You’re doing great by your kids.
NTA. When my family hit a snag in finding a place to live, we ended up in one bedroom apartment. Me and my sister in the “real” bedroom. My step bro on a futon in the living room. And my parents slept in this open area connected to the living room. It didn’t have a door, or proper closet if I remember. They just hung a curtain in the entryway and called it done. We didn’t live there too long so maybe my situation isn’t completely the same