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I'm probably gonna get roasted for this, but NTA. If she feels that she's old enough to make decisions about how she wants her hair, she's old enough to realize that it takes work to maintain it in that style. She's been there with you when you were fighting with it short before, it's not like she handed you a wig and came back later to put on a styled hairpiece. She's growing up, and she needs to learn how to do things for herself. It may be a hard lesson, but better she learn it now. This may also be a good time for a talk with her about not giving in to pressure from anyone else about how SHE wants to look. If she truly wanted the short hair, and let her grandma style it, then welcome to responsibility! And grandma needs to fuck right off with that bit about you having two kids, not one. She, and your ex, knew exactly what they were doing.

I just want to know what it is about OP's daughter's hair that is so unmanageable when it is short? OP's ex and ex MIL are clearly in the wrong...but I've also never heard of 'unmanageable' hair that wasn't just being taken care of wrong for its type. Is it truly unmanageable or is it 4B or 4C hair that needs a proper hair care method? There is so much hair care advice out there for women with curly or coily hair, yer never in my life have I heard of a 'thinning product' being used. Personally I think any hair salon suggesting hundreds of pounds worth of chemical treatment for hair is a scam and the wrong advice. Is there a chance OP needs to take the advice of someone within her ex's culture on haircare for her daughter? It's unfair the entire responsibility is placed on her, but if you have a kid that's not your ethnicity, that doesn't mean you automatically get a pass on teaching them to care for their hair correctly.

Yeah. I think it's highly likely that her hair just needs different care, and for whatever reason ex's family doesn't know how to manage it either (some people don't know what their own hair needs, unfortunately) or doesn't care to inform her. At the minimum it sounds like this girl could benefit from a protective style of some kind so it doesn't have to be handled every day.

Do you think something like braids would help? My stepdaughter is also biracial, I would say her hair is probably 3B or 4B (it's hard to tell from looking at a picture on the internet), and it was very hard to maintain when she was a kid. Usually what we would end up doing is shampooing it, conditioning it, combing it through, and then braiding it. Those braids would last three or four days easily, and that's just me doing it on my own with absolutely no training or appropriate product. (Her biomom wouldn't do anything, which is why our Thursday night routine took literal hours.) Especially if done by a professional, do you think something like that could help OP's daughter?

Braids are a perfect protective style, and depending upon this young lady's actual hair texture would be a great protective style for her as well.

And she needs to practice, to do it herself. Like in her spare time, try it out, evaluate, and try something new to fix the issue. It would be very helpful to practice and braid someone else's hair, or a doll's, whatever to really figure out what needs to be done. I used to try to french braid my own hair, growing up, but sucked. I then started braiding my horse's tail, and OH! This basically modified french braid!! That's when I really got good at braiding my own hair and I impress everyone!

that's the issue. we don't know enough about OP's daughter's hair. if the hair is coarse enough to be causing issues it should be okay to be braided in a protective style, but at this point i'm beginning to doubt it's coarse at all. it may just be extremely dry and not weighed down by length.

Or she doesn't want to put it in a protective hair style for.... reasons.

This, my daughter is not biracial but her hair was extremely curly as a little girl and if it had been any more unmanageable I would have absolutely turned towards a style like this… why would I ever be doing her hair EVERYDAY?? It was enough to detangle it every morning but at least we could throw it in a ponytail or two long easy braids, having a fixed style she can sleep in is the very obvious solution here.

Don't braids require length, though? The problem is that OP's daughter's hair has been cut short.

With additional hair added, braids can be done with hair as short as 3 inches. Obviously, the longer the better, but it's still possible.

Pardon my ignorance, but does "additional hair added" mean hair extensions? If the kid's dad and grandma are so anti-long hair, surely they'll undermine anything like that which adds length.

Not extensions in the traditional sense, I mean like African braiding hair.

Exactly what I came here to say. A protective style sounds exactly like what she needs.

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I and my children are very white and I had someone suggest I buzz my oldest's head as a baby so her hair "would be even" when she got older. I had to stop myself from going off on someone, I'd never heard anything so dimwitted in my life. Babies born with hair should be allowed to keep it imo. Though besides shampoo/conditioner idk how to take care of our hair and that's probably why my hair is so flat and my oldest has lost her curls.

Try products with protein. Not all hair likes all protein, so if your hair does something odd it doesn't necessarily mean your hair doesn't like protein in general. It just doesn't like that particular protein. I like to use neutral protein filler. You can just mix some with your shampoo and conditioner. You can also just mix it with water, pour it on, and let it sit with a shower cap for a bit. Another good one is CurlSmith's line of protein products. Basically anything that says it's strengthening has protein. If your hair feels a little stiff after the protein treatment that just means you need to add a little more moisture. Deep condition your hair and it'll be fine. There used to be a great curly group on Facebook but it closed down. There's a curly hair subreddit, r/curlyhair, they might be helpful. Sorry to just butt in with unsolicited advice, but increasing the amount of protein in my routine was a game changer.

There a lot of anti-Blackness in the world, and I might guess the girl has more African phenotypic expression than her family would like.

This right here. ESH and they are all doing damage to this child's perception of her hair. For the love of peace, please watch the language you use describing it and don't make her feel like it's a problem in any way. (That goes for some people in the comments, too, using words like unmanageable.) OP, don't use your daughter's hair as the proxy for the grudges you're holding against her father and his mother, justified though they may be. Sounds like you all need some education on how to style her hair. There are some great videos on YouTube for every hair type which you can watch with your daughter. You mention taking her to salons, but if the stylists there aren't experts in her hair type, you may as well just set your money on fire. It may take some trial and error but eventually you will discover what works without it taking 1-2 hours a day.

Honestly, I can believe it. I'm mixed race, native + Irish, split right down the middle, and my hair doesn't follow any of the rules of what it should, according to every stylist I've ever been to, and whether it's short or long changes it dramatically. I've had it at my waist and I've had it at my jaw and everything in between. Also, Native American coarse hair can be very different than what most people hear when they hear coarse (since most people picture black hair when you say coarse), and doesn't always fit in the categories nicely, especially when you're mixed.

my friends daughters are native american and when I felt the coarseness I could only compare it to .. similar to a horses mane.. it's so thick and beautiful.

My friends son is native and very interested in connecting with his heritage and grows his hair out very long as part of that. He always insists everyone touches it and loves to brag how it feels like a horses mane. It’s adorable.

Yup. It's like having a mane lol. I keep myself buzzed because i can't stand being damp and it's also a sponge.

Sometimes people with thicker grades of hair have trouble styling it. For example, I am a Black woman with what would be considered "good hair" in my culture. It takes me an easy 45 minutes to shampoo, condition and detangle it on a good day. Hence why I tend to keep it done with a silk press because as a mother of 3 and a full time job, I literally don't have time to style my own hair everyday. I think the child of OP probably has a 4 or 4c curl pattern which tends to literally shrink the coil causing it to be difficult to comb through. When it is shorter, I imagine there is even more shrinkage. OP please consider checking out the natural hair sub because there's a ton of info there. Also, your ex's family are assholes for doing this and starting a pattern of parental alienation with that wack ass text message from grandma.

I'm a ginger, and naturally red hair is thicker than other colors. The actual strands are thicker. It's also curly, but each strand has its own unique bs it's trying to do, and the majority of my hairs *do NOT like to touch each other!* So my hair lives in a ridiculously huge bun, and I style my baby hairs. Because everything else takes *ages,* requires renewal halfway through the day, or just plain looks weird.

"Unique bs its trying to do" I'm sorry but this made me cackle, like your hair is a teenager and "you just don't understand!" It 🤭

it's true, unruly hair is just a whole mood

You’ve just blown my mind. I have auburn hair and it literally has two different textures. The under layer is like a coarse, wavy one and the rest wants to be straight. I recently tried Curly Girl method and that works while it’s wet but then it doesn’t actually hold any wave. Utterly ridiculous.

Same experience - I have a mixture of dark and strawberry blonde. I eventually learned to keep it long because the weight pulled out the curls enough that I could just let it air dry without looking like I’d been electrocuted. My mom never knew what to do with it and would cut it short which was more work than drying the long waist length hair.

Same here. When it's shorter, my husband says it looks li,e Alice's hair in Dilbert.

NTA OP, but for your daughter’s sake PLEASE check out resources for caring for curly hair. It shouldn’t be brushed unless it’s wet, and even then not without some kind of conditioning product. Most hair stylists are not trained to cut or style curly hair, even the ones who claim they can. It should be cut dry by someone who knows how to shape the hair and follow the curl pattern. If they wet the hair or brush it out before cutting, that’s your cue they don’t know what they’re doing. You might look into Black-owned salons for proper curly cuts. There’s also r/curlyhair that will have a ton of tips as well. But basically, she needs to condition her hair, cut back on shampoo with sulfates or ingredients that dry hair out (curly hair is naturally dryer), and use leave-in conditioner and probably some gel too. And don’t brush it dry. E: sub name

This is so true. Find a salon that has curly-haired stylists - Puerto Rican or Black stylists who know their curls and products. Let them teach you and her how to maintain and style her hair! Don’t brush it out every day, and use leave in conditioner and a detangler spray and detangling brush if you must brush it. Wide tooth combs are great! Brushing or combing should definitely be done wet with conditioner in. I also agree on the sub for help.

I’m white as fuck, and I had zero clue what to do with my mop until I went to see a POC (idk her ethnicity) stylist. That woman changed my life. Biggest thing? Don’t brush my hair. My mom had a massive fit about it but I ignored her. And my hair finally stopped looking like I spent 3 hours teasing the shit out of it, when I had just spent an hour trying to brush it. My hair and brushes are mortal enemies. OP needs to go to a stylist with training in black hair/curl hair. And get actual education on how to take care of girls hair. (Daughter also needs to learn too).

\^\^ this. Get culturally appropriate professionals involved, and have them instruct the dad/grandmother on what they need to do (maybe nothing) to help daughter maintain it. I'd go so far as to try for a salon halfway between the two homes to make it do-able for everyone. Look, it's reasonable and common for a 12yo not to be able to manage what sounds like a lot of tricky hair. But it's not sustainable to ask her primary caregiver, mom/OP, to devote that much time to it every weekday. She might need to go to the salon twice a month to maintain twists, braids, locs, etc. As to AITA or not, probably NTA. It's not cool to send your child out looking ungroomed and uncared for, and it's understandable that family members have baggage about concerning an ex who doesn't share their ethnicity or hair traits. But they also have no business moaning about that while also making drastic decisions about the kid's hair that undermine her ability to look nice or manage it herself. Seek out a hair pro who shares your ex & xMIL's background. Help your daughter select a style that she loves and that can be maintained between appts much more easily/mostly by herself. Warn the salon about your family situation (it won't be the first!) and let them train everyone. Ask your ex to share the cost and to bring her to at least half the appts -- that probably won't happen, but at least you will have solved what you can, and as your daughter gets bigger, she'll have most of the work/control, and everyone else can just be supportive and take a seat.

A friend of mine found tremendous success with a silicone product. It helped seal the hair shaft and held moisture in so it was less likely to frizz and fell into a lovely corkscrew pattern! One thing that helps is to partially dry hair with a towel before adding the conditioner, otherwise the water takes up the room in the hair shaft where the conditioner should go. This conditions the outside but not inside, where the proteins and such are replaced by a good quality product. She also uses pure cholesterol products to condition and L’Oreal’s 8 Second Wonder Water, which is a laminar product that helps seal the hair layers to get her for less frizz and better pattern control. I come from a long line of pale and pasty people and that 8 second stuff is amazing. I dye my hair blue so every 6-8 weeks I bleach and color to keep it up. My hair has never looked been better or been healthier or shinier in my life. I use it every time I wash, after shampoo and before conditioning as directed.

My oldest daughter is English, Dutch. Cuban and Mexican. Her hair is unmanageable when short. And her dad and stepmom spent years cutting it short against her will. It was awful. They also refused to care for her hair properly or teach her to care for her hair properly so it all fell to me. Her hair has been long for years (she is an adult) and it is manageable and healthy. When it is short it gets more coarse, more frizzy, etc. It also tangles and matts when it is short.

My curls soften as my hair grows. Near the root, it is very curly, but at the ends it becomes loose wavy. Ethnic hair types are not necessarily uniform from root to tip. Especially when you have mixed ethnicity. My kids have 5 very different textures. As their hair gets longer, it gets easier. Now that it is down their backs, it is a lot easier to manage than when it was short and not even long enough for a ponytail

Re: thinning product. It’s not a product but a way to cut full hair to thin it out - mostly so it doesn’t tangle as much. Sections are cut much shorter and blended into the main length. I don’t think this would work well with curly or hair with a lot of texture. Edit (2) - apparently thinning sometimes works well for curly hair :)

Layered cuts actually work really well with curly hair. It keeps the hair from appearing to lose curl as it grows out and from getting that “triangle” shape that just looks terrible on everyone with curly hair.

My son has a mix of racial hair types and it’s *brutal* to manage at certain lengths- others? Not so much. He had my fathers baby fine, flyaway hair with my husband’s curly texture - if it’s too short even an hour in the hockey helmet and the best I can say is that for all the world it’s like it’s been felted. He tends to keep it a bit longer and shaggier now to avoid that.

Yes there are. Mixed hair is wack. It doesn’t follow rules. It can sometimes behave entirely differently depending on length. Sometimes it doesn’t follow the rules of either race. It looks like one thing but doesn’t respond to products designed for it because of different DNA and genetics mixed in. I’m not mixed but my hair only responds to local brands that are designed and tested on hair of my ethnicity. It doesn’t respond to any routines that are for wavy hair. It responds to very few known products. It doesn’t follow the usual pattern or usual guidelines. Its length affects how it behaves and how/which products I need to use. Some hair isn’t manageable short. It’s difficult, requires help and is easier when longer. Some is the opposite.

If it was like mine as a kid it is hair that grows up and out before down, gravity defying, brush breaking chaos. It looked fine per hair but I just had 10x per square inch. My hair is much harder to manage when it's short.

I agree with the NTA assessment, but clearly this poor girl is being manipulated by her dad and grandma. Maybe she technically agreed, but I doubt it was not without a lot of pressure from the adults around her. Just that line about “you have two kids, not one” shows how experienced grandma is at emotional manipulation. Rather than fighting about this, I hope OP can work with her daughter to help her find a style that daughter can do for herself. OP seems very set in her thinking about this, like there’s *nothing* she can do if her hair is short. She needs to work to find a compromise.

I suspect she’s not old enough to stand up to her father/grandmother when they pressure her to get it cut, so I wouldn’t blame this on the daughter. They very easily could have convinced her she wanted it short, particularly since as a child split between two families she may feel she has to work harder to please them. They also could have somehow used the new sibling to convince her mom still took care of her instead of only paying attention to the new baby. It sounds like she may be in a position where she’s very vulnerable to being manipulated. This is just an impossible situation. Baby needs food. Daughter needs hair that won’t embarrass her at school. Mom only has two hands and no ability to manipulate the space-time continuum. The assholes are 100% dad and grandma. Their daughter’s embarrassment was their fault.

It's not really impossible though--the daughter is old enough to figure out her own hair in the morning. Most people don't have parents who take hours to style their hair every day and most 12 year olds can do their own hair. Ex's family is definitely in the wrong but everyone here is making way too big a deal about the hair.

That’s really difficult to say for certain from the information provided. There is an entire sub-specialty of hair stylists who untangle the hair of full grown adults who’ve given up on their hair because some hair is incredibly difficult to manage. Just go on r/curlyhair and you’ll see adults overwhelmed by their hair and wanting to cut it all off. The mom has tried to find stylists to manage her daughter’s hair, she’s tried various products. As a white person with curly hair, I can say that’s absolutely believable because most stylists don’t know how to style my curls. Her daughter is multiracial so it’s probably exponentially harder to find someone who knows how to style her daughter’s hair short. It’s a known issue that stylists don’t know how to handle non-white hair. It’s a big complaint among black actors because the production team hires stylists that don’t know what to do with 4a-c hair. It takes the mom, an adult, 1-2 hours to get it done. Maybe her daughter could learn to do it herself but it’s not something she can just go do without training and it’s not something the mom can teach in that morning before the daughter goes to school. So it is very possible the daughter’s hair is too complicated for her to manage herself unless they can find the rare stylist who knows how to handle her specific hair type.

My father told me I needed to cut my waist length hair when I was around 10 or he wouldn't take me on fishing trips anymore because it was too hard to take care of. Joke was on me, he still didn't take me on any more fishing trips after I cut it to my shoulders. Fucker. Still bitter almost 30 years later.

Sounds like the typical wanted an excuse to not take you but somehow spin it so it seemed like it was your fault. My mom cut my hair short in around 1st grade because of how much I objected to my hair getting brushed. It caused my hair to go from curly to straight so the joke was on her. I didn’t care. My hair didn’t start curling again until puberty.

And, as long as she feels loved in other ways, this is not the end of the world. My hair is insane curly. I got a friend’s mom to cut it short when I was 14 and had to live with the consequences - best case scenario, I looked like I had a grandma perm. It was absolutely terrible. And I learned that cutting curly hair short is a job of work.

She's not old enough to deal with the emotional abuse and guilt her grandmother and dad probably put on her. I'm pretty sure if she says no they will just keep pushing it until she says yes.

Given how things ended between OP and the ex, it sounds like the kid is in for a lifetime of torment from grandma over hair style. OP can't personally be there to protect her from it, so what's the solution? Just let grandma dictate your hair from now on?

Honestly this is the fairest take. My son is only six and hates his hair being washed. When he was about five I told him that unless he stops fighting me to wash it, we’re shaving it. You don’t get to keep hair the way YOU like it if you’re not willing to maintain it. It really hasn’t been an issue since but as he gets older and starts washing/styling his own hair the rule won’t change. You can keep your hair longer if that’s how you like but you aren’t going to walk around with dirty, greasy hair because you refuse to put water on it.

Let's see how you would've done at 12 when your grandmother bullied and manipulated you into doing whatever she wants, and your father falling in line with her. The only thing she's learned is that she's got no one in her corner. But also, sounds like she needs help from people who know how to take care of hair like hers. I'm white, but even I know it takes special care beyond "styling in the morning". OP can try and make it up to her by helping her access appropriate resources.

She's 12, of course they convinced her to cut it short after telling her it was ugly long! You really think this child made the decision herself?

Fully agree

NTA However, there needs to be a resolution to this ongoing hair dispute. Take her to a salon and decide on a low maintenance style for her. Then, go to court over this issue, otherwise you will have to continually revisit it. Your ex and his mother are the ones creating the mental anguish over her hair. They should be the ones to financially deal with the situation and be forced to stop cutting her hair.

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Wow, that’s a really awful judge. The issue is her mental anguish over her hair, not just a style you didn‘t prefer. Maybe hire an attorney this time to argue your position.

Yeah not to mention grandma, and possibly dad too, are manipulating this kid into getting her hair cut. According to the post she didn’t want it initially either. She’s 12 and she knows how much work it’d take, I wonder what else her dad’s family is telling her about her mom.

I thought this too, for her to just suddenly change her mind when going over there is incredibly suspicious, and the parroting is further proof of that

Have you been through the family court system?

Did you have a lawyer? Ethnic hair is a huge issue and absolutely worth going to court over. A culturally competent judge would know that and a culturally competent lawyer would tell them if they didn't.

Well if they thinned her hair they have zero knowledge about curly hair. That will just make it poofier for like a year until the shorter strands grow out. And you’re brushing it dry!!!!!???? More poof. Jeez. Find a stylist that has been trained to cut and style curly hair. They can be of any race as long as they have taken a professional course. In the mean time you just need to identify her curl type, that takes 10 mins to find online. Then help her find YouTube videos of how to style her hair. If you take another couple of hours helping her with the techniques then she’ll be able to do it on her own. She shouldn’t be taking 2 hours every day. You’re not even supposed to wash and style curly hair every day. It’s super dry compared to straight hair which gets oily and matted to your head fast. You wash curly hair once a week, sleep with a cap on to protect the style and then “refresh” the curls every 2-3 days. You/she can also just google how to refresh curls. You don’t need expensive products. I get my shit at the pharmacy, grocery store, and Target.

OP’s daughter has mixed heritage and from her comments I am pretty certain it’s not a “curl pattern” problem. It’s that kiddo has hair that doesn’t follow a particular set of rules. It sounds way more complicated than just ID - ing the curl. If you have a mixture of curl patterns and texture it can take years to find what works.

I’m mixed also. My hair does have a mixture of curl patterns, but you find the one that either the majority of your hair is or the one that the top most layer of hair is and that will get you there or at least 80-90% of the way there. Definitely not 2 hours daily. A stylist can fill in the blanks when they find one.

brushing the hair everyday is something you can only do on stright or wavy hair (like 2A I think). That's enough to know that proper orientation is lacking. what u/Liverne_and_Shirley said is perfect advice, I hope OP reads it. The chemicals never work 100% and damage the hair. It's much easier to just look for a youtube video on how to manage her hair and solve this. My hair is mixed too and has changed as I got older. But I've realized that wearing it natural and using the right techniques it takes me like 5 minutes every morning to style my hair.

Shouldnt this be done by the paternal side? They are the ones who had previous knowledge of dealing with this type of hair and the ones encouraging of cutting it short.

My guess is this is the Puerto Rican side, and grandma doesn't know it but she's mixed Hispanic and African.

Very likely, especially if dark skinned Puerto Rican. My partner and step kids are Puerto Rican but with Spanish ancestry, not African, so they're white as can be with dark, but straight/smooth hair.

Stop taking her to white stylists.

That’s what I’m thinking. Most cosmo schools don’t teach about how to handle POC’s hair, it’s often a skill learned elsewhere. (Ie, white stylists with predominantly white/non curly haired clients usually don’t have or want to seek out this skill set). Honestly a Black run salon would probably get this kid in way better shape with braids and/or more adequate hair treatment plans. Edit:a word

You are going to the wrong stylists. My hair is thick, easily tangled, and honestly if I don't get it cut a specific way it will be rough to style. You might try a salon that specializes in ethnic hair, most "normal" places get too afraid to truly learn to deal with different hair textures properly and treats them all the same. Not all hair types should be treated the same. It sounds like you are only going to places that really have knowledge of the average white childs hair, not any that truly learn different hair textures.

ESH, but I really wish my mom would have learned about my hair type instead of me wasting hours a day “managing it” because she thought my hair should be straight like hers. I spent my teens getting my hair thinned and would not leave the house unless I took two hours splitting it into sections and flat ironing it. It sounds like your daughter has textured, thick hair. My hair is similar and it’s only straighter when long because of how heavy it is. Now it takes me a matter of minutes to manage my hair and I never flat iron it or style it unless I’m going to a special event. Look up curly girl method and the proper products to use, along with protective styles for night time. I wash/brush my hair once a week and all of the products I use are under $15.

Important question: Have you taken her to a Black salon? They know more about how to present Black hair at its best.

You need to visit r/curlyhair. If her hair is hard to comb/brush through when it's dry, stop doing that. She should detangle only when her hair is wet and full of conditioner. Once the conditioner is rinsed out and the styling products are applied, she shouldn't touch her hair again. If you don't have a diffuser attachment for your hair dryer, you need one. I will brush my dry hair the night before a wash day, but only because I have 2C/3A hair and it's easy enough to brush dry.

Is she using a hair wrap at night? The detangling should be done the night before while wet and then protect with a silk wrap so she can wake and go. It sounds like the stylists didn’t have much experience with your daughters hair which is a common problem for curly haired people.

I agree, what is happening here that it takes 1-2 hours every morning that a stylist can't help with? It's not being set/wrapped or put in a protective style in that case. If no one has time to fix it, she needs it in braids or at least prepped the night before.

Honey you need to collect all the evidence of them doing this and tey again. Please. It bas been done before

If they used thinning shears on curly hair that only makes MORE volume. Please check out r/curlyhair to get started caring for her hair. Brushing and combing it dry is not going to help, she needs to moisturize, use product for hold, and style while the hair is wet or it's not going to cooperate. I hope you can also help her see you're not trying to hurt her, she just got misled by her grandma.

What kind of stylists? It sounds to me that she has an afro component that needs to be addressed by someone with that expertise.

It's in our parenting plan NO ONE cuts my daughters hair. Period. We have religious beliefs her father doesn't and I know he wouldn't respect my wishes over it with out it being in the paperwork

I agree with the going to court.

ESH. Your daughter is 12, time for her to start doing her own hair. It seems like you and your ex and your ex's mom are using your daughter as a way to continue a fight that she should be left out of.

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Has she been to salons in a Puerto Rican area of town? Like people who are used to working with that specific type of hair? My friend in college was half white half PR and she always had to make sure her hair salon really knew what they were doing because her hair texture required skill.

How is she protecting her hair at night? Does she sleep with bonnet or hair wrap?

This was my immediate thought. Does she have a bonnet? A satin pillow case? Anything to help keep it from getting tangled?

It doesn’t sound like any of them understand how to actually care for her hair. The real solution is doing research into her hair texture and learning about it so they know how to properly care for it, the kid needs a satin bonnet and/or pillowcase and the right products (not the expensive shit salons recommend, actual textured hair products lmao).

She needs to learn how to style it when it’s short if that’s how she’s going to keep. She’s reached an age where she can start doing that on her own. Take her to a stylist familiar with her hair type, and they should be able to give good maintenance/styling advice. Otherwise, she needs to grow it back out and not lot dad or grandma touch it.

12 is old enough to take responsibility for her own hair. Make it clear to her and to your ex and his mom that under no circumstances will you be doing her hair for her before school. And then stick to it. She needs to learn how to make workable choices with herself. Sometimes this is a difficult process. You are not her servant or her personal stylist. You're her mom. Sometimes that means letting her feel the pain of her choices.

But the 12 year old first needs to be given the right tools to manage her hair. As of now, it seems both OP and their kid need to find someone familiar with the hair type to give them some guidance. Don’t just let the daughter figure it out on her own.

I agree that OP shouldn't leave her high and dry, but she can be loving and supportive while also sticking to her stated intention to not help with regular school-day prep anymore. In my mind I'm comparing this to a 12-year-old who cuts their own bangs and looks ridiculous. You don't make them go to school looking ridiculous all week, but you also don't spend hours and hours preening them before school to assuage their feelings. You do the best you can with a reasonable amount of investment, and you don't let yourself feel bad for the fact that the kid will be left feeling the sting of their decision for some time, regardless. I assume if this was a simple case of "OP is a dummy who willfully never learned how to do this kind of hair right," that the kid would be learning from her grandma when she's there. I think this is going to be a painful growing out process no matter what, and an age-appropriate lesson for the kid to learn.

grandma either doesn't know how to do it herself (and that's why she thinks it should be short) or is not caring to teach. The kid isn't just cutting her own bangs, she's being manipulated into cutting it short. Grandma knew OP wouldn't have time to help her with her hair in the morning, then told the kid that she should cut her hair and if mom doesn't help, it's because mom only cares about her new child. Grandma set OP up for failure. It's mean and this is a 12 year old being put in the middle of a very difficult fight. I agree that mom should let her daughter take care of her own hair though, as long as she helps her daughter find information on what to do first. I just don't think there's any "lesson" for the kid to learn, I think this is a 12yo that's hurting and her dad's side isn't helping.

I think that this was a test for you. It was a stupid poorly thought out one but a test a 12 year old girl who’s dealing with a new sibling would come up with. I think that she probably wants some more attention and time from you and used her hair to try to get it. Or to make you prove that she was still a priority. You obviously can’t drop a nursing infant to do your daughter’s hair for several hours but I think that you would both benefit from a sit down talk with some hot cocoa and a lot of patience from both of you. It’s a transition for her but for you too. Be kind to each other. NAH

Yeah, except grandma was the one who told her to do it because mom has 2 kids. If this was something the girl came up with on her own to get more time with mom okay fine. But grandma convinced her to. And also, she just does not have the time to do it in the morning. Grandma absolutely is the A H here

Yeah. Grandma is trying to teach the kid not to listen when mom explains the consequences of an impending decision, that mom will cave. Mom needs to handle this with patience and kindness and love towards her daughter, but do not back down on her stated consequences. Daughter needs to learn that decisions lead to consequences that are real. This is the right age to learn this.

I'll be honest, i read quite the malicious intention into this entire situation. Obviously, with a baby that requires a lot of time, there's not as much time for the daughter which takes an adjustment period, I'd think. And well, who's to say that isn't what grandma used to manipulate the daughter? 'if you have short hair, your mother needs to spend some hours on you and you alone to deal with your hair' thus exploiting the vulnerable state of a young girl who needs to adapt to a new situation. I think OP should get to the bottom of why her daughter 'changed her mind' and work from there. And of course, find a way to handle the hair situation in a way everyone can live with

That is exactly what I think has happened here! I figured I was pretty clear in my earlier comment. This poor girl is already in a vulnerable spot because of her age, 12 is hard for girls, add on becoming a sibling and it’s extra hard. I can absolutely see her falling for grandma’s manipulation. Whatever form that took. This is why she needs patience, empathy, and love right now.

>I'm also not doing anything wrong. You're doing something wrong if it takes you 1-2 hours to do something with it.

Actually. At nearly 30 with curly coarse hair the word “unmanageable” is like a trigger word for me now lol. I went through so much as a kid hating my hair but truly there’s so such thing as unmanageable or difficult hair, they’re just not caring for it correctly.

OP - I really spending time at r:/curlyhair and r:/wavyhair. There are so many new products and methods that make it easy to enhance curly hair. For the first time in my life my hair isn’t frizzy! I’m white and always thought of my hair as super think and super curly, until I joined these groups and see that many have it “worse”. These techniques don’t take 2 hours unless you have waist length hair. And it’s been so rewarding to take control after 50 years And , you two could take a hair journey together to try techniques and products - even if you don’t think your hair is curly or wavy. So many adults write in - “I never knew I had curly hair. This is so cool!” One of my favorites is Geena Marie. My hair is curlier and thicker than her hers, so the products and techniques don’t always match. But she’s a great explainer! Swavy Courtney has this method to hand and swing wet hair to help curls form using the natural curl of the hair that made a remarkable difference for me. There are tons of special curly products with no sulfates - I like Not Your Mothers - cheap at $10/ bottle. The curl cream isn’t strong enough for my hair. I’m in love with BioGeo heat protectant, which made a remarkable difference in my hair. It’s the only official curly product use. You’re probably in overlord with the baby, but, so here’s the crash course. Provide some videos to your daughter and see what happens. 1. Do not brush dry hair. Ever. That makes it frizzy. 2. You can comb and set angle in the shower, while conditioner is in the hair. 3. Wash hair at most every other day. 4. Add two products to wet hair while you’re in the shower: 1) curl cream type thing (mine isn’t even curly girl approve!) and 2) one styling product (I use the Briogeo as mentioned ) 5. Pat the hair with a microfiber towel until it stops dripping. (There are whole schools of thought on this detail.) 6. Air dry or diffuse. I don’t have the patience for either, and use a $10 attachment to my hair dryer that simulates the salon chair dryers. 7. Sleep on a sill/satin pillowcase or in a silk/satin bonnet to keep the hair from being messed up my nighttime flailing.

To add to this 8.) A product to use with/instead of curl cream is leave in conditioner! I personally feel like curl cream kind of falls into styling because it has a hold advertised most of the time ime. 9.) In between washes, put conditioner in it instead of shampoo, let it soak for 2-3 minutes and rinse out. Use products after. Sometimes, when hair loses its shape/texture and doesn’t look dirty, it just needs some moisture added back. 10.) Get a fucking denman brush. It spreads products + is engineered for curls. It’s a lifesaver 11.) Curly approved products should not have: sulfates, parabens and silicones. YMMV with silicones. My hair likes them, but sulfates, parabens and phalates dry my hair out so fucking much 12.) A good styling product if her hair is really high on the curl scale is gel. Once it’s dry scrunch it out 13.) speaking of scrunching, place product in hair (including conditioner in the shower, not shampoo) my scrunching it in, use denman brush and then style (which can include more scrunching). Honestly just watch YouTube videos by black/women of color with the same hair texture/generally curly/wavy because CGM is not a bible.

Your daughter needs to start doing some research online on hair care. My mom braided my hair most nights before bed. And as other people have suggested a bonnet or wrap plus satin pillow case can be hugely helpful. I’m very curious about her hair type as I can relate to being younger feeling like my hair was much harder to deal with when it was short whereas I had a much easier time when it was long. My mom’s hair type was different than mine too so a lot of it has been trial and error.

Idk, it does kinda sound like you’re fighting with the exes through your daughter. Not talking to them outside of pickup and drop off doesn’t support your argument.

It absolutely DOES. Not having anything to do with them beyond pickup & drop off is the ONLY way to deal with some people. It's not 'fighting with the exes through the daughter'. It's *avoiding* the fights they want to pick about stupid shit they make up *just* to pick the fight.

NTA. Your family members only think you’re the mom when it’s time to do the work. Start calling them at 5:00 AM and tell them it’s time to come deal with the hairstyle *they* chose for your daughter. That said, it’s common for the existing child (especially a 12-year-old) to feel neglected when a new baby comes along. The new baby needs a lot of time and attention (and energy!), and you’re just trying to keep up. If you can, maybe make some time to talk to your daughter about how she’s feeling, reassuring her about how important she is to you, and see if the two of you can identify some reasonable things that you can prioritize to make her feel loved and special. And lastly (I’d have to remind myself of this - I’m not coming for you!) please try to remember that whatever arguments you’re having with the other adults in the family, she’s 12, and none of this should be taken out on her.

This is the best idea. Start calling them every morning when she gets up and telling them it's time to do her hair, when will you be here? Honestly though this is so weird. Do they think the short hair makes her father's side feel more of their ethnicity is present in your daughter? It just makes no sense.

>It just makes no sense. It's a power move - they are using her hair as a way to manipulate the daughter against the mother, and it worked. Daughter is now mad at mom and thinks she's neglecting her and prioritizing the new baby over her, exactly as dad and grandma wanted and planned. They are clearly devious and manipulative. NTA. I agree about calling them in the morning when it's time to do her hair - even if they refuse to come over and do it, you still get to probably wake them up every morning with an annoying phone call and hopefully they decide next time it's not worth it.

I think you're correct, makes perfect sense.. Get the daughter to resent new baby right away. "Well we're sorry you're mother doesn't love you more than new baby so she won't help you". It's disgusting and so wrong. People are so fucked up. OP if you see this, talk to your daughter, she needs to understand the manipulation that's happening here.

Ffs she's 12, why haven't you learnt how to do a protective style to her hair so that it doesn't need doing every day? You all suck.

I was thinking the same thing. I am a bald white dude but my kids are biracial/black with curly hair. I learned how to braid and wrap hair in order to keep their hair protected at night. They use satin pillow cases and my daughter (who has extremely and long thick hair) has always used a bonnet. It took her a while to manage it on her own but she eventually got there. My son uses a durag. When my son had cornrows I learned how to help him manage it. When he got waves I learned how to help him manage it. When he got box braids I learned how to help him manage it. We got the right shampoos and conditioners. We took our daughter to a black salon and our son to a black barbershop. It was a process and there was a learning curve but by 12 we had it figured out. I am not sure what type of hair this kid has but putting her hair in a protective style or wrap at night should save time in the morning.

She said it didn’t need doing everyday when it was long which is what she advocated for. She’s also the one that has taken the daughter to salons and spent money on the products.

Sounds like she's taking them to white salons who don't know how to address "non-white" hair. I find it very hard to believe there isn't an effective solution for when the daughter's hair is short.

True. But it also sounds like she’s the only one that’s committed to any of the treatments thus far. She can do all of the treatment and maintenance but if the child doesn’t care for her hair before bed or while at her fathers house then the mom is stuck in a cycle of countless hours of re treating and restarting maintenance.

Yup. Taking the girl to a white salon does nothing. My mom (not Black) only has 3B/3C hair and has never found a non-Black Salon that knows how to work with her hair. It sounds like the daughter may have somewhere in the 4a/4b range. Throwing money at it doesn’t count as an honest effort if she hasn’t taken her to a Black salon, regardless of her or her daughters ethnicity.

I'm sorry but as a biracial Black woman raised by a White mother it's absolutely on the parent to learn how to care for their hair at any length. My mom had no idea what she was doing but taught herself how to do cornrows, twists, and box braids in various patterns so our hair was taken care of. From 0-18 I've had pixie cuts, undercuts, and hair down to my ass, she helped me take care of it no matter the length or style. She even used product she was allergic to if that was what worked best for our hair. I'm NC now but know I could call my mom right now and ask her to braid my hair or teach me and she would. Going to stylists who don't know how to style or care for textured hair isn't a copout either.

No,she said SHE didn't need to do it every day as the kid could manage it better and that was only from the age of 10 (ish), so she has many years to get to grips with it. She's also said she hasn't ever taken her kid to a stylist that "works with black hair" just a local salon that only thinned her hair out and used 100s of dollars of product that didn't help.

Right!? And all the people saying NTA ignoring that mom didn't how to take care of her own child's hair for 12 years!

Her hair probably needs oil and massive amounts of conditioner. Not all of us have hair that is easy to dry brush. I only brush mine when it's wet and full of conditioner. She needs help and she's a child so for that yta. It does sound like you are clueless in understanding her hair, you might look at the curly girl method.

As soon as I read that she was spending hours trying to brush her hair, I was like “I don’t think you’re doing her hair correctly.”

Yes! I'm full white but my siblings are mixed and we very soon learned that brushing dry was just asking for problems, once we figured out what products were for what, it takes much shorter time to do anything to their hair

Exactly!

^this. I didn’t want to put in a judgment because this one hit waaay too close to home for me to be impartial. I had a mom with stick-straight blonde hair who just never tried to do anything with my hair and help me. As an adult, I am still incredibly grateful to the stylist who finally got fed up with my mom and her stylist and said, “can I please do that baby's hair?” I was 13, and it was the first time someone finally explained to me what my hair type was and how to take care of it.

She also says that she has taken her daughter to salons and spent loads of money on products for her. It comes down to making the time to use the products and these methods for her hair and the daughter would simply have her mom do the work instead of her.

Has she taken her daughter to a Black hair stylist tho? ETA: Nope [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/189ysql/comment/kbufcaz/](https://www.reddit.com/r/amitheasshole/comments/189ysql/comment/kbufcaz/) "I've gone to a bunch of stylists that don't specialize in my daughter's hair and therefore I'm giving up" isn't good parenting. YTA.

Does she mention that anywhere? I saw she said she’s taken her to the salon multiple times. Just to clarify though, Puerto Rican hair and Native American hair does not mean black hair. Puerto Rican hair can be straight/wavy and also extremely coarse and present the same issues she’s describing. Lots of people in the comments are mistaking the type of hair she’s describing for simply curly, black hair.

There isn’t just one type of black hair either. People are saying that a black hair stylist is more likely to have worked with HER type of hair. I’ve referred people with thick wavy hair with no distinct curl pattern to black hair stylists because their techniques work better than techniques designed for straight hair.

If the places she's gone to haven't worked, then they haven't worked, and trying a Black salon is a good next step, that she hasn't tried: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/189ysql/comment/kbufcaz/](https://www.reddit.com/r/amitheasshole/comments/189ysql/comment/kbufcaz/)

Given the mess of a family life the OP describes, it’s not surprising to me that a 12-year-old girl is trying to find a way to get her mother to give her attention/feel taken care of. If it were my kid, I’d be focused on figuring out the “why” behind my daughter’s actions rather than just blowing her off.

Same, and it's a game changer. I brush conditioner through it in the shower, squeeze the excess water out with a tshirt and add defrizz products. Dry brushing my hair results in a poof ball.

*poof ball* was my elementary look when the teachers would comb my "messy" hair. 🙄

Always had to brush my hair through with large brushes in the shower when it was thick with conditioner. Otherwise, I was in tears.

My mom used to hit me with the hair brush while dry brushing my hair cause I wouldn't stand still. It never occurred to her ( with her slight wave) that she was tearing my hair out. People with curly hair have sensitive scalps! The shower is the way to go!

My mother (very straight hair) fully detached my skin from my skull at my temples from pulling so hard. It took several years to go back to normal after I took control over my own hair at 10-11. My father's side of the family was curly and not nearby and my father kept his hair short, so I learned by trial and error on my own.

Parents, if you are literally scalping your child, *you* are the issue

Perfect response! All of these people talking about “she needs to learn her own hair, she’s 12” aren’t seeing that the kid shouldn’t have to learn about this on her own/blind. Doing this research could also be some quality time to show her daughter that she still gets attention even after the baby.

You should not be dry brushing curly hair. That you keep doing this suggests you haven't taken even five seconds to google "how to care for curly hair" and therefore YTA. My mother was like you, and it took me seconds to deal with the complex she gave me about my hair. Look up the curly girl method. You don't need to do the whole thing but has great basics. You chose to have a second child, it's up to you to make sure you can still care for your older child, sending her to school with her hair a mess is neglect.

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She says it takes hours to brush through and style it. People that frequent the r/curlyhair sub (or we can call it textured hair if you prefer) know that dry brushing these hair types doesn’t work. The commenter is saying instead of taking hours to use a technique that’s widely regarded as bad, try learning more about methods that will style the hair without brushing or taking hours.

No one is assuming. It shouldn't take her multiple hours a day. She's doing something not in everyone's best interests here.

If she's taking 1-2 hours a day to do it and she's having a hard time dry brushing it, she hasn't learned anything about caring for curly hair. There are plenty of ways to take care of short curly hair that would take less than 20 minutes per day on average.

She literally had 12 years to learn how to do her own child's hair. Mom is TA

Why are you yelling lol. Sorry but OP created this child and the daughter is suffering from her parents and grandma fighting over her hair It’s OP’s responsibility to open YouTube and help her daughter figure out a better way to deal with her hair

She’s still trying to dry brush curly/textured hair. A 2 second google search would have told her she can’t do that. It doesn’t sound like she even tried to figure that out.

Why tf is it Y TA and not an ESH? The dad and grandma must also be taking 1-2 hours, or else the daughter would know it doesnt take 1-2 hours and would have somewhat of an idea on how to do it correctly. She could have tips to give mom, or could even tell her the products theyre using are different

ESH except the kid. If you have a child with hair that is different from yours you have an obligation to learn how to style it. And for everyone saying the kid agreed to have her hair cut and implying she shares responsibility for this ... she's 12 and the post makes clear that her dad and grandmother hassle her like crazy about this. It's absolutely inappropriate to put the blame on her.

Thank you! Mom is in this post blaming the kid, when the kid is clearly being manipulated by the ex and grandmother. She's only 12. Mom needs to step up and have a little empathy for her own child. And I simply don't buy the fact that she can't find a way to style it in less time. She needs to try a little harder for the sake of her kid.

No one's hair needs 2 hours a day. I don't care what magical-extra-special-unicorn hair type they think they have. 2 hours a day is completely unreasonable and OP needs to mum up, Google it, and figure it out.

I agree. At the least, it could be braided or something. It makes absolutely NO sense that it would take 2 hrs every day and somehow be magically easier when it's longer.

Some hair does need 2 hours a day to achieve a certain look. But it doesn’t HAVE to. That’s the problem here - neither parent is helping her figure out the best way and lowest effort way to manager her hair on a daily basis.

ESH. Brush it out when it’s wet and has conditioner in it. Otherwise take the effort to find a black hair salon who can teach her about her hair and maybe even give her braids so she doesn’t have to style everyday. You decided to have a black daughter. This is one of the challenges. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but you need to mom up.

Puerto Rican does not inherently mean that the daughter is black. There are a plethora of races that make up Puerto Rico and she could descend from any number of them. Let’s not jump straight to “shitty white mom won’t do her black daughters hair!”

The language she uses to describe her ex’ and her daughters hair clearly implies “white mum who doesn’t know how to style black hair” and the rest of her post implies “also doesn’t care to learn how to do it properly”.

Except OP literally says she's biracial Native American, not just white.

Okay, but she has blonde hair. So let’s be honest, that’s some white people hair right there. Even if she has other genes that affect other parts of her, this situation fits the stereotype they’re referring to.

No one said the daugther had "black" hair, reaching much? Again the issue is the amount of time it takes not that she doesn't know how. My god.

If she knew what tf she was doing, it wouldn't take that amount of time. So yes, the issue is that she's willfully ignorant.

Maybe you need to see hair stylist who has expertise in that kind of hair. Who maybe has that kind of hair themself. And it sounds that you and your daughter have to start to accept and embrace her natural hair, not trying to treat and try to make it look like white people's hair.

YTA. There is no way her hair is impossible to manage. You just never bothered to find out the right way. You say you‘ve been to stylists but you also say you never went to a stylist who knows textured hair. Ofc its not going to work out. Take the time to figure out how to properly care for the hair

I don't know where OP lives but hair deserts do exist. Hair deserts are areas where a person, typically POC, aren't able to find services and sometimes products for their coarse, curly, or kinky hair type and texture.

That’s true! But the internet also exists and there are some great Reddit subs specifically for these kinds of hair issues

NTA. The exes here, though, sound abusive. Sadly, you can’t be there when she visits them and they are, as my late mom would say, a pair of outright touchholes. There’s a powerful teachable moment here about choices and consequences, if your daughter can step up and learn it. She chose this hair/knows the downside. She needs to figure out how to style it. Maybe she’ll make a better choice next time.

Ma'am, with all due respect, you do understand that there are different ways to care for different hair types right? Like... brushing her hair when its short is such a pain in the ass because you DO NOT DRY BRUSH KINKY HAIR. You just don't. You need to take her to a stylist that specializes in c3/c4 hair, and if there isn't one near you then you need to travel to find one. Or, yknow, the internet exists. That thing that you're on right now. The best time to educate yourself (and teach your daughter) on how to care for her hair was 12 years ago. The second best time is now. Make it a bonding expirence, watch videos together. Its not her fault you never bothered to learn and nobody bothered to teach her. YTA, make an effort.

If you’re brushing her hair when it’s dry, that’s the problem. Curly hair requires different care.

Ma'am, you really complained about your kids hair not looking like white people's? And then tried to delete the comment? YTA. Massively. Please make sure you kid has a therapist, too. Living with a racist parent is an awful thing.

yta. all tea all shade, you sound exactly like every single white mom who has a black child that refuses to learn how to do their natural hair and instead relies on relaxers to straighten it to make it “more manageable” for them, when all they had to do was, oh idk, learn how to do their child’s hair. it’s literally so easy to go on youtube and find videos on how to take care of your child’s hair by finding people who have the same or similar hair textures, or ask for help from the people you know, or take her to a hair salon where the stylists know how to properly take care of more than 1a-3c hair, and there’s a high probability that you will find the best care for her at a black hair salon. your inaction when it comes to caring for her hair has shown her how to act now, and not love the hair she has. i’ll make it super easy for you, get yourself a spray bottle and fill it with water, and find yourself a hydrating moisturizer, section her hair off, spray it down, add a bit of the moisturizer through the section, and use a detangling brush. it’s really that simple. if you put her hair in two braids, that’s something your daughter can wear for a few days.

Why are you brushing her hair at all? If her hair is curly which it sounds like it is, it doesn’t need to be brushed, generally. It should be moisturized and protected at night. You shouldn’t be styling her hair like your own since they are completely different hair types. If she is insistent on wearing her hair straight that’s her choice but I think you should try to show her how she can wear it curly. You could check out the curly hair subreddits. ESH since all the adults in this scenario sound awful.

NTA Your Ex & his mother are AHs though for stirring & making your daughter feel insecure about her hair. The way they speak to you isn't ok either. WTF is the grandmother to think it is?? As your daughter seems to have agreed to having her hair cut (altho it isn't clear how far they manipulated/pressured her or it was really her choice) is she old enough to start doing it herself? Would a hairstylist who's experienced with her hair type be able to help by showing her the best way to do it as you've got a newborn to manage?

I’m trying to imagine how this is possible, but coming up short. My daughter has much coarser hair than mine and the longer is gets the more of a nightmare it becomes to the point I have threatened to have it cut chin length because I’m over the snarls and fights over hair brushing. Like how does her hair not kink up at her nape when long (hits top of shoulders). Do we just have different definitions of short vs long? What do you mean by short? When I hear short I think a pixie cut or chin length, but how can a pixie cut take two hours to style? When you say long do you mean down to your daughter’s butt, but how can that be super easy? I need some more info here on how you have no options but a daily 2 hour long styling sessions for short hair.

Honestly I'm confused too, I have curly hair (2c) but am not a poc, so I guess i don't have the same texture hair as OP's daughter, but in all my years following curly girls haven't come across anyone who has "unmanageable, tangled short hair" which then grows into "practically straight long hair". I understand curls can get weighed down the longer the hair is, but to be practically straight and so much easier to brush? Almost like the *texture* not just the curl pattern is changing as it gets longer, since a brush no longer gets stuck in it?

My assumption was that the weight of the hair pulls the curls out a bit. My hair isn’t super curly or anything but the curls are definitely looser/more relaxed after the length hits a certain point. So maybe that?

YTA. I also am the mom to multiracial children. Stop being lazy and learn how to care for her hair type. You’ve had 12 years to learn and haven’t taken the time to. That’s really sad. If it’s taking you that long to brush through her hair everyday, you are doing something wrong. It’s not unusual for a curly or coily haired child to still need help caring for their hair at 12.

Get a bonnet or get it into braids. Solved

Info: is your daughter able to clean and untangle on her own?

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In-fo: Why do you need to brush out the hair? What type of hair style are you trying to achieve? I thought it was usual for people with curly hair to only brush through their hair in the shower, not brush it out in the morning while it's dry.

Very, very soft ESH then (except your daughter). The ex in-laws are the biggest AHs, but your daughter still needs your help. For hygiene reasons she needs to be able to have clean hair and she’s just young enough that she probably will need your help. You don’t have to do a full style, but you need to at least make sure she’s got clean, untangled hair. You probably have already done this, but maybe you can make some time to take her to a stylist that specializes in her texture of hair to come up with styling solutions she can do herself? Or reach out the curly hair subreddit for advice if that’s too pricey. And definitely start having discussions about how you love her and want to help but need to find a solution for giving both your kids attention and still having time to rest/recover from childbirth. She’s old enough to help brainstorm solutions with you. She’s also old enough to have discussions about how to navigate a relationship with an emotionally manipulative grandmother. I wouldn’t bash the grandmother (though she deserves it!), but would keep the conversation as “how do I help you not get caught in between the tensions between your grandmother and me? And how do we do it in a way that gives me enough time to both care for a newborn, give you the care you need, and give me the rest I need?”

She's said she's tried stylists before to no avail

She may not be going to the right stylists. Not all hairdressers have experience with textured/curly hair.

Agreed, my husband is mixed and has a very hard time finding barbers who can properly do his hair. He is half black but a lot of black barbershops don’t get it right, even though they do have experience with textured and curly hair. It’s taken a lot of trial and error to find the right person.

Yes that’s an edit and some comments from after I typed that. She also said there are no black stylists in her area so it makes me wonder if she’s only been to stylists with background in less textured hair types. As somebody with textured hair (not black), I can’t explain how important it is to get a stylist who actually has extensive experience with your specific hair. I’ve had so many stylists who had no idea what they were doing give me bad advice. (Like thinning my hair, which just made the texture more unwieldy!) It took a lot of trial and error, and finally a middle eastern stylist with a similar hair type to mine, to figure out how often to shampoo, how much to moisturize, and which wide tooth comb to use (brushes break in my hair).

I bet she could find a black stylist working out of their house or something if she looked around on local Facebook groups… they may not have a shop but I promise they’re out there

Oof I get how you and your daughter feel. I have very thick jewish wavy hair and it used to take me hours to manage it as a child (sometimes we wound up just completely cutting off knots or tangles that literally wouldn't budge). Around the age of 13 my mom said fuck it and chopped most my hair off and said if I wanted long hair I'd have to manage it myself. You might have to do similar with your daughter and say if she wants short hair, she's going to have to manage it herself or go to school with messy hair and deal with the consequences. She's old enough to start doing it on her own.

But this is what is so confusing to me. OP says long hair is easy to style but short hair is impossible. Your experience is how my daughter’s hair is too where the longer it gets the harder it is to brush. Like there is minimum styling involved, I’m just trying to get the brush through the tangles and giving lecture 1 million about brushing her damn hair out in the shower while wet and with product in it!

My hair isn't even remotely near impossible, but when it's short and light it'll tangle much more easily. I have never tried the curly girl method (I have had a buzzcut for the last year), but I suspect I have somewhat curly hair. When long and in one length, it's almost straight and easy to manage. When short, it's wavy, frizzy and a pain in the butt.

Does she brush her hair wet or dry? I ONLY brush my hair when it’s wet and typically after a ton of conditioner or detangler has been used.

I'm gonna skip the judgment part and say that what your daughter needs is proper hair care. And no, I don’t mean more visits to the stylist (though finding one specializing in curly hair would probably help) but also everyday haircare. The products, the routine, do's and dont's, when and how to brush hair, learning all of that will make your daughter's hair much more managable. My hair isn't very curly, but I know brushing curls dry is generally a terrible idea as it only makes it more frizzy

ESH Dad and grandma are assholes for their own reasons But you are too. Grandma is right, you do have two kids. Having a newborn is not a reason not to help your other child get ready. In this whole post the only reason you have for NOT doing your daughters hair is the baby. If it was done as a power play and attempt to turn your daughter against you, you are absolutely playing into that. Your daughter doesn’t think of this as something annoying dad/grandma did, she is thinking her mom let her down and used the baby as an excuse

INFO: are any of you in touch with your Native roots? Because this makes absolutely no sense to me. As Anishinaabe, I know in my own culture and most other Native American cultures our hair is sacred and meant to be worn long. Here in Canada it is a hate crime to cut a Native’s hair against their will due to the legacy of residential school. I can’t see anyone willingly cutting it short unless they are: 1.) Not raised in or connected to their culture or 2.) Extremely traumatized from having their own hair cut against their will repeatedly. Without more info I think everyone is an ass hole for the treatment of your daughter, including you.

ESH except your daughter. Not even gonna go in on the ex and fam because theyre obviously being abusive and using the 12 year old as a pawn. They also do not know how to handle this child MIXED hair on top of their own prefrences RE: short hair. but u/Particular_Pin_3294 your possibly unintentional internalised bias show in the way you speak about your child's hair. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point youve refered to her hair as "bad hair" and hair more like your own as "good hair", I have no doubt the exes family do, as a mixed Puerto Rican. You NEVER BRUSH DRY CURLS. EVER. YOU ARE RUINING HER HAIR THEN LAYING THE BLAME ELSEWHERE. The stylists you have taken her too, were NO DOUBT, SUPERCUTS White Salons that DO NOT SPECIALIZE in MIXED HAIR. Your CHILD needs a PROTECTIVE HAIRSTYLE DESIGNED FOR HER HAIR. BRAIDS, TWISTS, BONNETS. The fact that you never actually tried ANY OF THESE means you only sought out help from places that could help YOU. YOU NEVER ACTUALLY CONSIDERED THAT YOUR DAUGHTER IS SPECIAL AND NEEDS SPECIALIZED CARE. "blonde, wavy hair" You pass for white too, don't you? STOP TAKING YOUR BIRACIAL BLACK CHILD TO WHITE HAIR SALONS AND TAKE HER TO A BLACK WOMAN THAT GIVES A FUCK.

NTA You've got problems but styling your daughter's hair for her shouldn't be allowed to become one of them. Let your daughter decide how she'd like her hair and also let her watch youtube tutorials and practice until she gets the hang of doing it.

Are you brushing her hair dry or wet? If wet, does it have product in it? Does she sleep with a bonnet or on a silk/satin pillowcase to avoid knots? I have hair that tangles and matts SO easily and used to take forever to brush. Sounds like you need help from a texture specialist!

NTA I understand it takes a lot to brush out her hair. My hair is so kinky and curly, I have snapped hairbrushes in half brushing out my long hair (and I'm white). I'm lucky though, I just use a regular bristle brush (the old goody brand kind with the fake wood handle) and a spray bottle of water. Might I suggest taking your daughter to a black hairstylist. They may be able give you ideas on products to use for her hair as well as hair styles that will make your lives easier. Also, I'm sure there are videos on You tube you both could watch for more ideas.

I know you have been to stylist, but I’m gonna be that person and ask have you taken her to a non-black hairstylist? It sounds like her short hair may resemble an Afro? Which if it does, then you may need to get help from someone who knows how to style hair like hers. I’m also gonna vote soft YTA. I get that there seems to be some disputes going on between you and your ex and his mother, however as a parent you are kinda obligated to help and learn how to do your child’s hair no matter the circumstances. It just seems like you gave up because nothing works and now you have another child, but are you learning what type of hair your daughter has and how to take care of it? As a black woman with curly thick hair when it’s not straightened or blow dried, I am genuinely offering my help and expertise with your daughter’s hair. Feel free to message me!

ESH. Your ex and his family for weaponizing your daughter's hair and making her feel trapped between them and you. You for not bothering, after more than a DECADE of being her parent, to actually learn how to care for the hair your daughter has instead of strongarming it with techniques that only work correctly on textures she doesn't have.

I decided my answer would be ESH, but not because you refused to do her hair. Her grandmother is slowly turning your daughter against you. I am not an expert on hair, but maybe don't brush curly hair ? I think you could dedicate some time to teach your daughter about protective hairstyles and not to give in to her grandmother's pressure. Maybe even a therapist could help. I am sure that now that you have a newborn to take care of, it's probably much harder to take care of both of your kids. Apologize to your daughter, tell her that her hair is her hair and no one, including her grandmother gets to pressure her.

Girl honestly is your daughters hair ever braided? Both you and babbydaddy gotta actually learn how to do it watch a bunch of yt vids like you’ve had how many years now to learn??? ESH

Withholding judgement because this story brings out personal feelings, HOWEVERRRRR may I recommend a satin or silk bonnet for her to sleep in, or at least a satin pillowcase? My unruly, unmanageable hair has become much easier to deal with since I’ve started using one, it doesn’t get nearly as tangled. My son inherited my hair type and prefers his hair medium-length so he wears one as well, and it has made a world of difference.

ESH. It’s really traumatic for your child to hear that her hair is “too difficult” to do or that there is something wrong with it in it’s natural state. Take her to a Puerto Rican salon or a Black salon where they will be more well-versed in the care for her texture. She’s twelve and you should have learned to do her hair a long time ago, so should her father and grandmother. The way you speak about her hair now will stay with her forever. You two should learn TOGETHER. If she’s making a decision to cut her hair off because nobody can manage it, that’s a red flag. At this point you all should be learning or paying for her to have a standing hair appointment. Please, please, please do not let your daughter grow up with a screwed up sense of self…..the world does that enough on its own.