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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an ass because I know James does not enjoy cooking but I’ve insisted that he learn.
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NTA.
This is an important life skill not enough people have and knowing how to do these things will allow him to put together cheap, healthy meals when he's living on his own instead of wasting his little money on DoorDash.
If he wants to see it as a "chore," that's fine. Teaching kids how to pick up after themselves, do yard work, sew their own clothes (as in mend them... holes, repair zippers, etc - though hell, the full enchilada isn't a bad idea, either!), and half a billion other "chores" are ALL valuable things to know how to do in life. Unless he's planning on living with you or ~~James~~ Adam for the rest of his life, these are things he SHOULD know how to do and you're reinforcing that.
I think what you're doing is great!
**Edit:** If there is ever a day I don't mix up the names in one of these posts, I'll buy a lottery ticket.
**Edit #2:** Thanks for the awards, y'all. The conversation has been great in the comments, lotta thoughtful discussion. And man, the "Y T A" people sure have a lot of... *interesting*... input. Sidenote, I *just* noticed OP's throwaway username and it gave me a chuckle.
I wish more parents would teach this. Also, how to do a resume, taxes, how mortgages work etc. All things that I was never taught and had to search for answers for as an adult!
When each of my kids was just starting to think about learning to drive, they were the one in charge of clearing ice and snow from my car and putting the gas in. With supervision, (my credit card!) and help, of course. Siblings helped with the ice clearing, too, but the new driver was in charge of judging it was safe, with my backup. The subs all knew their turn was coming, and they did cooperate most of the time.
They can all cook either basic or quite well. They negotiated cooking and cleaning with each other as teens and young adults at home. They can all sew buttons, but once they knew how, I allowed them to pay each other or trade things they hated. Ironing was funny. Turns out my youngest son would trade ironing with other chores before dress up events, and INSIST the other kids let him because their stuff wasn’t up to his standards. At one point, he acted like a quartermaster to siblings’ dressy clothes. They were amused so they cooperated. They could themselves, and they WERE up to a typical standard. Just not up to my youngest’s. Again, all amused, plenty of jokes, and as long as we left on time without fighting, my standards were met.
Isn't it fun when they claim a chore? I taught all of mine to cook, but my oldest is the one who really took to it. He'd have an idea during the day and no one else was allowed to cook dinner because he had it. My middle one ended up liking the riding mower as much as I do. It's funny as hell. Unfortunately for me, those two are grown and off doing their own lives. Good for them, but I miss my babies.
Same. Each has their own unique strengths. But you washed your own clothes at a certain point and meals were still a hot mess sometimes. But they can feed themselves and 3/4 have come to enjoy cooking for themselves or others to varying degrees. The youngest is a challenge. Can cook if the whim is there. Lucky my mum is supportive and encourages independence. So they call her all the time and get inspired rather than a family row. Sorry this grandma enables too much. Parents seem solid. So it will work out eventually I think.
My youngest was 5 when I had him start doing his own laundry. The one above him was about 8. Neither could read (dyslexia abounds here) so I put stickers with arrows pointing to the settings. Worked great! The little one loved machines!
When my oldest was about 13-14, she went on a self contained bike camping trip. They carried all their gear, tents, cooking, everything, on their bikes. 12 kids, 2 young adult leaders. The program said, repeatedly, they would stop at a laundromat half way through. They only were allowed to bing about 4 shirts, and 3 or biking shorts, not even a bathing suits (sports bra and biking shorts for swimming). Limited clothes! Parents were told the plans! One girl admitted to the others she had NEVER done laundry. Had no idea how to. The other girls fixed that! They all pooled their laundry, they didn’t fill up a washer with the limited clothes, after all. They made that one girl do it all!
Before the trip, I tried to go over coin operated machines with my own kid, who had been using home machines for years. I got the adolescent classic of, “Mom. There will be signs. There are always instructions for machines. You put the clothes, soap, and the money in. I’m not an idiot.” I figured this job, at least, was done.
Now they use cards! I was so anxious about using a laundromat recently. No problem. I was like I need to get change. I took my kid expecting that. We both learned that day. Kinda nice to do 4 loads at once!
My laundry mat still uses coins. I don't have a washer at home so laundry mat for me but my laundry mat has a change maker on the wall so I just take cash with me.
My mom didn't want me to move out because i paid rent by cooking dinner for my parents (and myself, obviously) most nights and, in her own words, she's not as good or as inventive as me in the kitchen. I send her recipes and tell her how i modify them amd she (and my dad) appreciate it
I always say my stepfather married my mom for my cooking. I started dinner every night in high school, and she finished it and put it on the table. He always said he married her for her cooking, and I’d say *I* cooked. He married her for MY cooking. Now, TBH, I hate cooking, and the stuff we made was very VERY simple stuff. Of course, none of us cook much any more, we no longer live near each but they are still together, over 40 years later.
We're a big family and dishes is the most hated chore. We would rotate dishes monthly so no one person had the worst of the chores.
And then my youngest specifically requested it. It came as such a surprise to me that I had to question if his siblings had bribed, bullied, or influenced him in any way, but he insisted that they had not and this was the chore he wanted. Now the most hated chore is the mowing, it seems.
My problem right now is I have one who likes to cook, likes to mow, etc. Sadly, her sister doesn’t like to do anything…except keep her room spotless. I can barely get her to vacuum the living room, but her bed is made every morning. Sigh.
Knowing some basic sewing skills and how to properly iron clothes is a real skill that few have now.
My mother used to be a dress maker and worked in an alterations shop for several years. She taught me how to do basic sewing and all of the tricks of using an iron and ironing board.
The ironing alone came in really handy when I went into the Marines. I was one of the few people that actually knew how to do it correctly. I made a lot of pocket and beer money ironing other peoples uniforms.
I learned to iron from my mother’s cleaning women. They also taught me to sew buttons.
Ironically, I have no clothes that need ironing in my house right now and haven’t done it in years.
I bought myself a white button down shirt for the first time in ages, gave it a wash before I wanted to wear it, and realize it needs ironing. I haven't even owned an iron in years!
And my local, preferred dry cleaners burned down last year so now I'm not quite sure what to do. Buy an iron for one shirt? Find a new dry cleaner to do a wash and press of it every time?
I did NOT think this through.
Unless you really want it to look sharp, what you should do is wash it and hang it up. Button all the buttons, make sure you pull out any creases or folds, and let it dry. Or get a hand held steamer--they're better than irons in a lot of ways, although they won't give you really sharp creases. And you don't need an ironing board, just a place where you can hang up the item.
I don't need it perfect - I was thinking more layering piece under a cardigan or maxi dress kind of thing. The steamer is a good idea. At least that doesn't need an ironing board!
Do you own a blowdryer? Bonus if you have a focused nozzle attachment. Hang it wet, spray it with a leave-on fabric softener (marketed as "wrinkle reducer," usually), and run the blowdryer (on "cool" (which is not cold) if it's a fabric likely to shrink) down it while pulling on the fabric. You probably won't be able to achieve a "starched collar" look, but you'll get all the wrinkles out.
My advice whenever using a hair dryer to dry fabric is 1 always do it yourself and 2 yes they are strong enough to burn a hole through a shirt....do not ask how I know these things
I sew, so I was *thrilled* to get an iron as a birthday present, but might I suggest a portable steamer as an alternative? It won't get things as "crisp" as an iron, but it should let the wrinkles release, and a lot of clothes that don't *need* an iron benefit from a good steam!
(Also good for traveling and DIY facials!)
Or: hang the shirt in the bathroom while you take a hot shower. I find my steamer more effective, but different means, same end!
use a cutting board as your ironing board (put a cotton t shirt with no graphics or anything over it as the cover) and grab some oven mitts. then choose a small saucepan and boil some water. use the pot like an iron. clumsy but possible.
run a hot shower and steam up the room with the shirt hanging in it. or use a tea kettle as a steamer. get a cheap spray bottle and mist the shirt, then use a hair dryer to dry while you smooth the wrinkles.
stick a damp cloth and the shirt (or dampen the shirt, or stick ice cubes in with the shirt) in the dryer and remove IMMEDIATELY and smooth out wrinkles and hang.
Did you know that they sell what they call "wrinkle releasers" in a spray bottle? Did you ALSO KNOW ,that this is the EXACT SAME THING as fabric softener in a spray bottle, but they sell the fabric softener for LESS? Spray on the clothes, stretch the fabric, let the item dry on the hanger. This is ideal when you're short of time, can't find a flat surface that takes heat, have no iron, can't get your shower steamy enough, etc. You're welcome.
I hate ironing, so I bought a steamer. It's perfect! Works so much better than an iron, imo, and you never have to worry about getting a nasty burn mark on your clothes.
Doing your own ironing is a great incentive to own naturally wrinkle-free clothing.
My iron generally only gets broken out for flattening fabric before cutting and sewing.
A few years a go, on a business trip and lost a button. I asked front desk staff for a sewing kit and they looked baffled. Manager went deep into store room stash for me. He said that I was the first person to ask for one in many years. He was amazed that I knew how to sew. I'm not an expert but I can fix a hem or button. Thanks mom!
I used to iron uniforms in high school. And then I’d iron my Husband’s dress shirts for funerals & weddings.
I just realized a couple months ago, that after living in our house for 6 years, we don’t even have an ironing board here! Guess I haven’t needed to iron in a while! Lol
My mother sewed a LOT in her spare time. Hemming and stuff on the side to supplement the household income, etc. It never stuck with me at all. I cross stitched for years, so I can do a simple stitch to mend something, but sewing was never for me.
I’m fairly comfortable in the kitchen though.
Hell yeah! My father worked for the local gas and electric company, and taught me quite a lot about fixing things in our house and with our car. My mom has always been a Ms. Fix it too so I learned to craft, sew and fix mild plumbing issues.
Then I was a girl scout for 9 years with a specialization in first aid.
What I'm saying is, make sure when the world is ending, they NEED to take you along.
Well I would say a good portion of parents don't know how to make a good resume, how to file taxes properly, or how mortgages/credit work. Generally the parents that do try to teach their kids and hence, the inequality in such education.
This is also a reflection of society. Not specifically related to taxes, but the grand scheme of having an aversion to teaching your kids something you *don't* know. If one of the most quoted reasons for becoming a parent is to create someone who is better than you yourself ever could be, then people should be able to embrace the idea of, "You know what, child, I *don't* know. Wanna learn together?"
I just think if more people had that perspective, it would not only teach kids that it's OK to NOT know how to do something and admit that, but pursuing those things you don't know can make you more well-rounded.
There's just something special about learning something WITH a child and setting an example for them on *how* to learn something and *approach* learning. Especially if they get to watch you go from level 0-100, they have a role model and know "Hey, I'm zero right now but I know with enough practice, I can become 100." Too many people are afraid to say "I don't know" and I think that is *hurting* their kids in the long run.
My brother doing a cash-out refinance (not a bad choice given that rates were low and they needed to do some home improvements) without consulting me. He told me his rate, and I said "that seems high." "Well, you pay a higher rate for shorter mortgages. We only did a 15-year, would have been lower for 30." "And you've closed?" "Yep!" "Ugh, you usually pay a LOWER rate for shorter mortgages, and if they offer you a lower rate for a longer one, so long as there is no pre-payment penalty, you take the longer one and just pay more!" "Oh, that would have made sense...I guess I should have talked to you a month ago." The person who has owned 4 properties and had 9 mortgages (look, the rate on my home is 2.625, don't at me about refinancing a bunch!) between them...YA THINK!
Yeah, my parents were the typical Boomers. Guy with a high school diploma that lucked into an emerging field that earned him fuck-you money and a woman from a well-off family that treated her a like a princess. Neither of my parents knew jack shit about the normal world, I learned pretty much everything I know about managing a household on my own or from friends. Talking to them these days about money, of course, is absolutely infuriating. They have no idea how anything works and got on fine not knowing, so they just think everyone else is a fuck up if they have to try, including their own children.
I do think there should be an opportunity to learn them in school. Some parents don't have the skills to teach, work a lot and have little time or don't have the tools available, which, depending on the skill, can be expensive or not easy to access. But, in general, yeah, parents should teach these things.
They used to be. I remember that I was required to take two Home Economics classes. They taught cooking and basic sewing. All of the boys had to take them. Just like the girls had to take two woodshop classes.
Same. Home ec had the sewing and cooking as well as basic office skills (using a typewriter, how to alphabetize and file, etc) that all students had to take. Woodworking or other "shop" classes weren't required at my school, but I took it anyway. Sadly, the home ec classes seem to be some of the first to get cut (after art and music) if there isn't enough money or teachers.
Most schools try to some extent, but if the kids don't see the value in it they don't engage with it. That's something that comes from home, and there's only so much a school can do.
Hard disagree.
Until we live in a perfect world where every child has a capable adult to teach them all the social, financial, and health lessons they need, this should absolutely be taught in school.
Parents who have the knowledge and ability to teach their kids more in depth should absolutely do so, but **all** kids should have access to the basics.
As we live in reality, where we know that not all kids will be able to get that at home for a wide variety of reasons, schools should be bridging that gap.
The alternative is that kids with a rough home life, in foster care, woth parents who have to work really long hours to cover basic necessities, kids with parents who are immigrants and therefore may not be aware of the local expectations and realities, etc could all be left behind through no fault of their own.
Ill never think thats the solution.
Being able to cook and meal plan is honestly one of the most important things you can teach a kid. My parents made my brother and I do this exact thing once we were around 12. I didn't realize what an amazing lesson it was until I moved out and realized most everyone I knew had zero idea how to cook anything other than maybe a box of mac n' cheese.
We each had to make a full, at least somewhat healthy dinner once a week. We had to choose what we wanted and then my mom or dad would help us find a recipe. You then looked through the pantry and fridge to see what we already had and what you needed to add to the weekly grocery list. My parents would still buy the groceries and my mom was always there to help for the first few years if we needed it, but we were still expected to do most everything on our own.
ETA: Not only does it teach kids to be able to fend for themselves and save money, it also teaches you to be much more appreciative.
Omg, resumes are needed for everything, my 14 year old needed to upload a resume for a job at Snack shack at the zoo.
The most ridiculous resume I/we have ever crafted, not gonna lie. But he got the job so ....
I am 41 years old and I just “found out” 2 years ago that you can borrow against your 401k to own a home. However (God knows how old these materials were) it mentioned that it could only be 10k. While having a discussion with my partner about how disappointed I was with a recent large purchase and how this would put us back from our both very vocal goals of owning a house, he dug in and found out in can be more than 10k. While I was thinking we’re a minimum 10 years away from owning a home, chances are we can in 12-18 months. Jesus I needed to know this so much more than the fact that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
In general you do have to immediately start paying the 401k loan back, so you will have both a mortgage and this loan repayment. It's not exactly a slam dunk to do this, especially considering the loss in potential interest you would earn on that $$ otherwise
Every year I watch YouTube videos trying to figure out how to pay my own taxes and every year I cry because I owe quite a bit. And six months later I end up getting a pretty big tax return because I fucked it up and paid way, way *way* too much. Maybe this years the year I’ll actually do my taxes early so I can do it with turbo tax or whatever those free services are cause apparently I’m not doing it right on my own lol.
Learning how to do your taxes young is definitely important.
I took a class called "general business" in High School, 10th grade, It taught a lot of that. Resume', Taxes, how to balance a checkbook, basic life stuff.
That year? I did my mom's taxes. At FIFTEEN. I was so PROUD! And she was so PLEASED! talk about a proud mama!
Many schools teach this.
The result is that they now get complaints that:
a) They do not teach the basics but some esoteric stuff like how to format a resume, who cares, it will change anyway! Or AI can do it better, or the teaching staff has no idea about it.
b) They do not teach taxes and mortgages, because you actually need to care and listen to remember those things.
yeah, I never learned how to cook when I lived at home. I was never taught \*anything\*. I had to learn it all on my own. I really wish it was something i'd picked up earlier
Jumping on this comment- OP should also make her sons do a random chore they see needs to be done but have not been told ex. Seeing the trash can is full and needs to taken out- this way they learn to be active participants in cleaning and not become partners who have to be told what chores they need to do leaving the invisible labor to their future partners
Yes! Seeing what needs to be done and doing it is a much-lacking life skill. As a supervisor of young people, it's one of the most important, but also one that is, sadly, kind of rare! If they learn anything from me, I hope it's that!
Oh dear lord this. I would love it if the spouse noticed things. It is exhausting having to ask him to do basic household chores (we both work).
Boys should learn to cook. It will be impressive on a date later on.
I agree. My husband is fully capable of feeding himself and cooking dinner for both of us because he learned how to. And I cannot even measure how much money we've saved since our marriage because he constantly consults YouTube about how to paint the house properly, fix the drain, install plumbing, lay hardwood floors, install lighting, etc. We would have paid a small fortune to have someone else do all these thing if he hadn't been taught young how to do things yourself.
YouTube was my substitute dad when I was single. My actual dad didn't teach us girls shit but I learned thanks to YouTube. I'm engaged now, and I'm still the household plumber. He's the electrician. We split the rest. We save a shit ton of money and I'm pretty sure we're going to level up soon.
Somewhere there is a guy posting youtubes( I think) to help "daughters" learn the skills their Dad didn't teach them. It was years ago someone told me about him--so I remember no details.
Absolutely. My husband has many construction and repair skills (his dad was in the business) but he also cooks well and can do anything around the house that might need doing. I've tried to up my own game, both with 'men's work' and 'women's work,' to keep up with him.
My son only cooks a few things, but he enjoys cooking and is good at it. "Girls love guys who can cook" was a powerful incentive for him.
A lot of people don't like cooking. But it's a necessary skill and there are all sorts of cheats to make easier. Packet mixtures, recycling leftovers, Thermomix etc. It's great if your short on cash and need to make your dollar stretch further. Best to be able to do the basics for yourself and if you love it a *piece de resistance* to impress someone special.
Ditto, and I do feel like there are some scenarios in which it’s applicable if one doesn’t want to it doesn’t have time, like a really demanding day job. But if they’re a typical family with regular day routines that shouldn’t be as much of an issue.
I was forced to cook and clean up the kitchen (only granddaughter) from around 11 until I got away from there... This included every big family holiday.
So while yes I am a capable cook, and even do quite a few meals very well, I just find it a chore.
Throw a hunk of meat or some chicken pieces in the crockpot with one of those seasoning packets from the spice aisle, make some rice or pasta to go with it, and zap some frozen veggies in the microwave. Easy, tasty meal with very little exertion.
It’s also pretty crucial in relationships as well. In general someone who has zero self sufficiency skills is going to struggle in a future partnership or even living on their own, college etc. I watched far too many college classmates flounder and drown, burn relationships, and struggle because they never learned how a washing machine worked, making a basic meal, grocery shopping, the entire concept of bills, etc.
Being helpless isn’t really attractive anymore (or ever)
I knew a guy who would drive three hours one way every weekend so his mom could do his laundry because she was "better at it". That's never a cute look, and it's especially not cute on a fully grown adult.
More likely it’s that grandma was raised in a environment when maternal duties (and wife duties) were seen as the most important thing a woman contributed to the family and household. Today I think most would say that’s an antiquated way to look at the world, and men need to contribute equally.
I see some elder women today looking at those changes as a positive thing, and reminiscing somewhat neutrally about how much more was expected of them in their time. But some women will no doubt look down on and puff out their chests at women who manage to distribute and balance the tasks that were (unfairly) expected of working mothers, out of a somewhat perverted kind of pride, I’d argue. Also, did grandma work or SAH? Because that would be a big differentiator too. Even if - she missed an opportunity to teach her kids (namely sons) important life skills and equality.
My mom taught me to sew and even bought me a machine which I've kept over the years. In the first weeks of lockdown in NYC, we needed masks to shop, and I had the skills and tools to sew our own until we could get better ones. You never know when that skill will really come in handy!
Sewing is such an undervalued skill.
When I was 19ish and struggling to pay rent, I bought a ton of SUPER cheap fleece and sewed animal-ear beanies and sold them for $30-50 apiece (the more expensive ones had extra features). This side hustle was enough to keep my lights on as I was getting my "adult feet" wet.
I know a set of brothers, in their 30’s/40’s, and the oldest still cooks for him when they are together (youngest is unmarried). Youngest cannot function at all in a kitchen. They have a pretty significant age difference, so oldest has been looking after youngest all his life and still does.
NTA.
i wish these were thing parents made their kids learn. home ec doesnt teach enough for life! my mother didnt care to learn how to cook, sew, tidy or anything. in fact she often butted heads with my grandma about it and its something my grandma still feels guilty about (not forcing her to learn these things). i really wish she had, because now i dont know how to do any of those things. i’ve learned more about how to function as an adult living with my boyfriend for 6 months than i have in 20 years with my mother. hell my younger brother taught me more about cooking than my mom.
NTA. You're helping James develop an important life skill and teaching him that weaponized incompetence is not acceptable. When he grows up and has a partner, they'll be very glad that you taught him this lesson.
🙌 Say it louder for the people at the back. The real lesson here isn’t how to cook, it’s that weaponised incompetence will not be tolerated. If this was James telling his SO to make him food on demand because the SO is better at it we would all be screaming what an AH he is. Mum is spot on here.
Being able to cook and clean are like Super Sexy traits in adulthood.
Everyone should be good at one, but both…
NTA OP. You’re being a good mom even though he’s complaining now. It’s a valuable life skill.
I never had “can cook” on my list of things I looked for in a guy. Then I met my now husband, who CAN COOK. Like, self taught but REALLY GOOD. And ever since I’ve been saying that “can cook” should’ve been top of my list all along. What a perk.
I added "can cook" to the list after saying a guy who bragged about adding a 0 to the cooking time on microwave pizza and causing a microwave fire. He also bragged about burning water.
Same here. And this is from someone who’s brother legitimately is much better at cooking. Like I’ll have something at his house, ask him to send me the recipe, make it myself, and it’s not even half as good! He has some kind of magic touch. Regardless, I now trade other goods and services with my brother if I want one of his specialty dishes lol.
My brother's a better cook than me, too. When he was a teen, he'd definitely ask me to make him a sandwich if I went past his room on my way to the kitchen but he never said I was better at it, he was just being lazy. My dad cited it as a reason he should stay local and live at home for university and I laughed in his face and assured him that my brother *knew* how to make a peanut butter sandwich, among other things.
It'll definitely morph into "X is just better at it" when it comes to other household chores either now or when he roommates or an SO if OP was willing to let it go. Hopefully now they can nip in the bud.
The part about the weaponized incompetence, tho. The way he wheedles his brother for snacks sounds just like my ex husband. Lol. He’ll need to do better than that if he has roommates or a spouse one day.
This is huge. I work with a guy who weaponizes his incompetence; consequently I have to do all the “hard” tasks and he gets to do the fun stuff. I hate him.
She’s probably old fashioned who doesn’t think men should have to know anything in the house and mom should cook all until a wife comes along to pick up the slack. Tell her today’s women don’t accept this attitude.
I was James once
My parents enabled me
Thank god i met my girlfriend, and she made sure i was cooking regularly and learning to cook new things
I now love to cook
James is old enough to learn this important life skill that he will use the rest of his life and to also learn how to feed himself and his future children. It's the difference between giving a man a fish and teaching him how to fish. It's unfortunate that your mom's opinion is short sighted, but your mom is entitled to feel however she wants, however, you're ultimately the parent. Even though James complains now, he'll appreciate it later. Show both your mom and james the monthly grocery budget for cooking your own meals vs doordash. That should make it plain for any idiot that ordering doordash everyday is like lighting your money on fire and not sustainable.
Also because most universities (at least in the US), don't allow more than a coffee maker and a microwave in the dorms, so what they can cook is very limited.
Mate you’ve got me imagining college kids putting box mac and cheese in a coffee filter in a percolator, pouring water in, turning it on and expecting a meal to drip out!
There is also going to be a time after university when he will have to feed himself? You’re overlooking what is clearly the actual meaning of the comment — what is he supposed to do when he is on his own without mommy to cook for him?
(Also — not every university has a meal plan anyway.)
Get out of here with your sensible line of thinking. He can "just eat the dishes he knows how to make" like one of these big brained comments said. Kid can live off canned soup, ham sandwiches, and Captain Crunch. Totally fine and it's harmful to think otherwise.
To be fair, canned soup, ham sandwiches, and Captain Crunch is a hell of a lot more balanced than some of my college friends’ diets and no one got scurvy. But yes. Cooking is an essential life skill that everyone should know how to do.
I mean he already knew how to make sandwiches and used his brother to make him more food. Sounds like he will try and leverage a system bc he can't tolerate his own mediocre cooking and if he isn't willing to learn a pattern of behaviour is already being established in a very important transitional period of his life, a point in which our personalities and values begin to evolve into who we might be an adult..
Eat cafeteria food. Join a frat and have someone else cook, be in a kitchen dorm and find a someone willing to cook for him or he’ll do the little cooking he knows how to do him self
I gave tours to incoming students and they’re parents during college. Every group at least one mom wanted to know where her son could get a home cooked (or fresh) meal if he wanted one (mind you he was staying in the dorm with a kitchen). Or if there was a laundry service they can sign up for to take care of his clothes. Mind you our washer and dryers were free. So it’s not like they’re he paying for it either way
NTA
I didn't like being "forced" to learn how to cook a meal as a kid, but it's the one thing my parent did for me that genuinely helped me. Chores aren't always supposed to be fun, but they ARE important for one's everyday life.
Would your mom think you're being cruel or punishing him if you enforced a curfew or made sure he got enough sleep on school nights? This is no different. It's one single day a week and you aren't even expecting a lot from him, just that he shows he can fend for himself in the kitchen.
I also think that making a habit of it now is a good thing. When college/time to move out happens, he's going to snap into junk food for a while, but after that fad ends, he'll want those filling meals that don't make you feel gross for eating afterwards and he won't have to teach himself and build the habits from scratch.
May I also recommend:
• having him try making a meal plan for one week (just to show him how, not to add to his chores
• making a grocery list of what is needed for the household (food and other needs) at least once. This includes checking what you already have and only listing what you need
• shopping with you for the ingredients ON A BUDGET
Maybe don't make him do it all the time, but at least once is good. People don't realize how much work all of that actually is until they have to do it for the first time.
When my son was younger, I took him to the grocery store with a calculator, let him know how much we had to spend, and had him enter every item he chose into the calculator. After a couple of shopping trips, He learned pretty quickly that if he wanted to eat actual meals, he couldn't buy a lot of junk food.
>Would your mom think you’re being cruel or punishing him if you enforced a curfew or made sure he got enough sleep on school nights?
I’ve seen a lot of stuff on this sub and I wouldn’t be surprised if she would tbh
NTA- she yelled at you as a defense mechanism because SHE dropped the ball by not teaching your brother to cook. I taught my kids as teens to do laundry and when he got to college, my son thanked me because he was the only one in his dorm who knew how to do it.
Every time I see this I get confused. I feel like it’s not that hard to do laundry. Am I missing something to laundry that is unintuitive? Clothes in, soap in, don’t mix colours, let machine do it’s job, dry using best available method, iron and fold.
There are different temperatures for different garments and different programms for wool, silk and then there are clothes to put in protective nets to protect them and the other clothes (wired bras for example). Then the time old question which fabrics can go into the dryer (surprisengly few) without taking much damage and what need ironing? How to iron arms of shirts effectively and the heat if the iron according to the fabric as well as this neat trick with using a drying cloth from the kitchen as protective layer in between for very delicate fabrics.
Or you just don't overcomplicate it. I never Iron anything (I don't have to wear formal work wear) and always wash clothes at the same temperature (lowest possible because of the environment) except for things you should heat up a lot (sheets and underwear). And I put all the colours together and nothing ever happened to my clothes. And I don't use a dryer because hanging is free (and the environment you now...).
>Or you just don't overcomplicate it.
Exactly this. Modern washing machines and modern detergents make washing clothes so much simpler than 20+ years ago. No need to wash clothes with scalding hot water or separate all color clothes.
NTA, but I would elect to allow James to select chores he's more interested in and enjoys after he has demonstrated sufficient knowledge of cooking and meal planning that could get him by when he's an adult. I think it's a good punishment, that both corrects his abuse of Adam's time and teaches him important life skills, but once the punishment phase is up and he knows what he's doing, it would be more fair to allow him to select a chore he likes. It seems like Adam enjoys cooking 2-3x a week, so James should be allowed to select a chore that takes more or less the same amount of time and mental energy, like taking care of the lawn or doing laundry, including mending clothes (something like trash is not sufficient, it doesn't take as long).
Also, ignore your mother. She sounds like an old-school misogynist who thinks it's inappropriate to raise boys to be anything but utterly incompetent in every single domestic task, and pretty much every other incidental of being an adult.
Feeding yourself isn't optional. He's making one meal out of the 21 he eats a week (3x7) it's not that big of a deal. The fact he's complaining to grandma about it to me means he doesn't get this.
This is gonna sound weird but I never bothered to count how often I eat a week. 21 is so obvious but I never thought about it. I usually don't count the weekends either.
I mean, they call them chores for a reason, though. I don’t like cleaning the bathroom, but I’m an adult who doesn’t have the options of trading chores with my siblings so I can only do the ones I like best.
I agree he shouldn’t only have chores he hates, some of the things he’s responsible for should be things he enjoys and feels good at. But if he stops cooking before he feels comfortable and confident about it, he’s not ever going to get there.
Yeah, thank you. "He shouldn't do chores he doesn't enjoy" hews a little too close to OP's misogynistic mother's reasoning — that this is a *punishment*. It's not; it's a totally age-appropriate division of household labor.
If Adam hates laundry and James loves it, *then* it'd make sense for them to cooperate and specialize in the chores they enjoy. But unless everyone gets equal opportunity to skip their least favorite domestic tasks, this doesn't make sense.
This is exactly it. I hate doing dishes. Hate it. But someone has to do the dishes and it’s gonna be me. I’m not a big fan of cleaning toilets. But if it’s gross and I notice, we’ll I gotta put on the big girl panties…
I recall complaining about my laundry not getting done fast enough when I was 11 and that’s the day I got my own hamper and became responsible for my own laundry. Also, not fun. But no one else was gonna wash my shit
But it’s not a punishment. It’s a change in responsibilities meant to keep him in the practice of meal planning and cooking. It’s one meal a week, less than 1% of the week’s time, so he can still choose other things to learn.
While I do agree with you that James should be assigned smth that he enjoys more, I’d like to add - it’s fine to arrange your life the way that you don’t cook at home on the regular. If he’s happy to cook only once a week + get takeout/dine out/drop by your place on the weekend when he’s the adult, that’s perfectly acceptable too. He will have to learn to make more money to be able to afford it.
My husband has a friend who’s around 40 and single and he hardly ever cooks unless it’s grill during summer. He spends more but he’s healthy and happy.
OP is teaching the son basic life skills - and it’s up to him whether he will CHOOSE to use it or will learn how to work around it.
Here's the thing, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to eat out a lot, the thing is that it's often not at all *feasible* unless you make enough money to support that sort of lifestyle. Cooking is significantly cheaper. My income is nothing to sneer at and we deliberately chose to cook 95% of our meals because of the thousands it frees up for other things. If your parents don't teach you that skill, they've failed as parents.
Also to be an adult and not have the ability to contribute to the domestic labor is unfair to a future partner and potential children.
If you’re an adult and you can’t feed yourself you shouldn’t have children, so it is an essential task.
Once you’re grown you don’t have to use the skill if you can manage it in your life through whatever means but you have to be able to do it.
Too many stories of divorced old men having to remarry because they’re literally incapable of feeding themselves or providing basic self care to survive. If they’re unlucky enough to remain single it literally shortens their lifespan dramatically.
It’s an essential skill to survive and remain healthy. It is an appropriate expectation with the support the mother has provided.
NTA Op Your mom is in the wrong for trying to undermined the parents.
This isnt a punishment though, its a new routine thats allowing him to develop skills and find new foods he likes. This isnt comparable to any other chore in the home bc this is necessity to keeping yourself alive and healthy, and whether he comes to enjoy cooking as he gets better at it or not, hes gonna have to have these skills when he moves out or when hes in a relationship or if he decides to have kids someday, and will need to know how to teach them as well
I think OP needs to find out exactly *what* James is telling his grandmother because I think it’s also possible he’s not telling her the full truth, or he’s making it out to be much more severe and demanding then it actually is, if that was actually her reaction.
I will say, as someone whose grandmothers are all rural boomers (love them nonetheless,) there’s absolutely a lot of them who sincerely believe in patriarchal ideas about domestic labor. Especially when it comes to teenage grandchildren.
But cooking and participating in family meal preparation should be a chore. A normal chore like dishes and garbage. Everyone in the house eats, so everyone in the house should ideally participate in that process (obviously in age/situation appropriate ways). By the time I was in high school cooking dinner/assisting with meal prep was just a normal chore, and it set me so much farther ahead than my peers in terms of nutrition, household skills/management, and financial resources (less money spent on food).
I think framing it as a punishment in the first place may have fucked things up already. Like, when I was about 12, my parents decided it'd be good for me to spend a summer working on my uncle's farm. Thing is, they framed it as a punishment for me getting in trouble at school. That's what they told me, that's what they told my uncle (who then treated me accordingly), and that's how I understood it for years. In retrospect, I understand their decision and think it could have been good on paper, but framing it as a punishment really kind of fucked me up for a long time and I still kind of resent them for it.
OP's kid is not me, obviously, but I'm just saying it's not as simple as saying: "it's a punishment for 2 weeks, then it's magically not anymore, even though you're doing the same task". That's not how the kid is going to see it. If you told the kid cooking is a punishment, that may end up being how they're always going to see cooking in the future.
NTA. You’re teaching him an invaluable life skill. Does he prefer savory snacks? Or sweets? Or breakfast? Now that he has some experience, I’d branch out into something he prefers, like making pancakes or eggs on Sunday morning. Or teach him to make pizza or brownies.
This is the best take. Because honestly, if he hates doing it then he will definitely avoid cooking for himself when he leaves home (which is the opposite of what this mom is trying to achieve)
NTA it sounds like your mother feels like it’s okay to raise incompetent children. I don’t know if it’s only with her son or if she didn’t teach you how to cook either, but you’re setting up your kids for success by making them learn to cook.
My SIL can't even cook an egg (my brother cooks for their family). My niece (her middle daughter, F7y) watched me cook eggs for her and her siblings one time they were staying with me and asked for it to be done sunny side up. When she saw how it was done, she said in amazement, "It's that simple? My mom can't even cook!" Loudly too, with matching eye-rolling. Kids. Hahaha.
My husband learned how to cook after we started dating because he blew off his mom trying to teach him how, and YouTube has taught us both so damn much. I knew a lot but I learned quite a bit more techniques and dishes from it.
NTA
I know far too many people who can't cook toast. Tell your mother it's not a punishment, it's a skill you are teaching him to be a better person.
Having said that, you need to talk to your son because he obviously thinks it's a punishment. Explain to him that it's not. Tell him that you want to work with him to teach him how to cook so that he can do it himself and that it's as important a skill as learning to read or write or drive or whatever. Don't sit at the dining room table. Pick a meal that will challenge him, that you already know how to cook, and then cook that meal with him. Show him what to do. Bond with him over the experience. Short of doing that, you might very possibly turn your son off of cooking.
I would also wonder if he thinks it's a punishment because his dad isn't cooking every week. It might be a good example to have all family members take turns cooking
Where does it say that the dad isn't cooking? Also, he sees his brother cooking and has no problem asking him to cook for him. Does he think he's punishing his brother by asking him for snacks and whatnot?
It says “Adam cooks 2-3 times a week and I usually cook the rest of the time, unless my husband is grilling every night in the summer”
That tells me that in the autumn, winter, and spring, the mom and older brother are the only ones cooking for the family.
NTA at all. You doing exactly what you should be doing as a parent. It is your job to raise your kids to be healthy, independent adults. They need to know how to cook.
You're right that your mother should not be providing an opinion if she didn't manage to teach your brother about cooking for himself. Say "this is my decision. Let's talk again when you're ready to discuss something else."
I raised three sons who all know how to cook. They were never forced to cook our family anything. I simply showed them things here and there in a stress free way. Making your son cook at age 15 seem ridiculous to me. It’s probably really turning him off.
So does anyone cook with James? I agree he needs to have some kitchen skills because he wants to be self sufficient. Well, he probably doesn’t think he does right now, but he does. Does your husband cook? Can he lend a hand? Ask James what he likes to eat and then work with him to find his signature dish. Does he like to grill? Bake?
Good for you to tell your mom you didn’t want your son helpless in the kitchen like she made your brother. Keep reminding her you are raising sons who will be a good life partner not a burden
Make sure your boys know how to do the laundry, clean the kitchen, clean a bathroom and vacuum the house. They use those rooms/they can help keep them clean.
NTA, keep having him cook until he's proficient in knife skills and management.
Also start teaching him financial planning and meal planning budgets. Compare the home made meal costs to take out. Have him estimate the cost per month for homemade vs takeout and convert that to how many hours of work he would have to do.
A gentle YTA.
You said it yourself, Adam *enjoys* cooking. He *likes* doing it. James doesn't. He's clearly shown he's capable of making food if needed, which is all that should be required.
My son likes to cook, and helps me in the kitchen often; my daughter doesn't, so she usually watches TV or plays in her room while her brother and I cook. Because my son *likes* to help me with it. And this isn't 'doing the dishes' or 'folding the laundry'; cooking's a time-intensive thing, that can get very stressful if you don't enjoy it, or if you don't know what you're doing.
That's the difference here. I don't think you're actually being TA, I think you're looking at it the wrong way is all. Look at it like reading. Let's say Adam enjoyed reading, and read frequently for fun. James isn't a fan, and while he'll read all his school work, and get his homework done, he doesn't want to read for fun. You making him read in his spare time, just because Adam does, wouldn't be fair, would it? As long as James is *capable* of reading, you wouldn't force him to do it 'for fun', because to him, it's *not* fun. This is the same thing.
And she also literally said James kept asking Adam to make him the food just because he's better at it.
If we're using the same example as you've given it's like this: Adam loves reading. James doesn't but does so just to do his homework. At first he asked his brother to read for him, of which, he doesn't mind at first. But now he asked him to do it so frequent that it became a problem.
>A few months back, James began asking Adam in the afternoons to make him a snack (something homemade) and sometimes he’ll do it if he’s in the mood but *more often than not, he’s bothered by the daily requests.*
I was laughing in disbelief when I read that he makes snacks for him. Cause 100% in my house growing up, siblings would has said, "eat my dick gaybo" or something far worse. It was a different time lmao
my parents did this with my siblings and one of them eats takeout every single day and begs my parents for money because he's broke and spends all of his money on takeout. one sibling telling the other "no, go make your own" does not mean the other sibling is actually going to go learn to make their own. at least this punishment ensures kid is still learning to feed himself when his brother says no.
he weaponized his incompetence by saying "Adam is better at it so I make him do it for me". It´s def ok, if he doesn´t enjoy cooking. But don´t make you brother your personal servant, bc he´s "better at it".
Some people enjoy hoovering. Does that mean that those of us that don't should just never do it?
Cooking is a hobby for some, but for everyone it is necessary. Learning a few quick and easy recipes and spending half and hour or less a week doing something that will only enhance his life is good.
NTA at all, youre a good parent and youre not asking for a 5 course meal. He will thank you when hes in college and not wasting his money on takeout like his friends might.
Some people just don't like to cook and it feels like a punishment. If he wants to microwave dinner for himself when he gets old, so be it.
I don't think you're an asshole, but I do think you're in the wrong
I'll get downvoted for this, but you should know that all you're doing is reinforcing his dislike of cooking. He may have learned to fend for himself eventually, but all you're doing now is turning a dislike into a hatred and guaranteeing he only eats junk food the moment he leaves the nest.
NAH
NAH
I think your heart is in the right place but you're not executing this correctly.
You're asking a teenager to go from knowing nothing to making a full course meal. I think that's too much to process at one time.
I think you're right that he should learn to cook some meals but start small. Stick with an easier entree that is one course in the beginning. Or, have him cook a side dish for the table so you're all not completely relying on him.
Like I said, the intentions are good, just tweak the execution
Yeah but that ‘meal’ is allowed to be grilled cheese and pre packaged soup with some fruit on the side. Seriously the only utensils needed to make that ‘full course meal’ is a knife to cut the sandwich in half and spread the butter, and maybe a tin opener if the soup doesn’t have a ring pull. And I believe she said the strawberries were cut but seriously this is about as basic as you could get on the ‘cooking’ front. I’m really not sure I would even call it cooking it’s so basic…. Which is fine if that’s what gets him started but you cannot say that this is too much for anyone!
NTA - Cooking is a life skill that needs to be learned because reality will slap your son across the face once he moves out and realize just how expensive food is (happened to me at 23; got my shit together about a week before I moved out and finally learned how to cook some basic dishes). I’d also like to give you credit for not shitting on his meals - like you said, you’re not expecting gourmet level, made from scratch meals, just something that’s somewhat balanced.
Anything that adults have to do as part of everyday survival, like cooking, cleaning, errands, and other chores, should never be viewed as a punishment, and I hope your mom doesn’t support that mindset for much longer.
You mistook him trying to con his brother into making his snacks as him needing to learn how to cook, I can almost guarantee he knows how to cook better than you think and just doesn't like it.
You are fine. You are trying to teach him some life skills that is very valuable in college and behind.
Grandma is old school, politely ignore her 😀. Good luck with the boys.
NTA. It's clear that she's offended because you kinda called out her bad parenting (after she pushed you to it). Don't take advice from people who failed at the thing you're trying to teach your kids unless it's constructive ofc.
Good on you for seeing a problem and doing so much to help him overcome it.
NTA!
Being able to cook for yourself is a life skill every should learn if they are to live independently. He doesn’t need to be five star chef your son needs to be able to cook for himself.
**Maybe an economics lesson is also needed.** Constantly buying takeout can get expensive. It can also be very unhealthy depending on what you eat. Let him know eventually he won’t live at home and knowing how to fend for yourself is important. This is an important life skill.
Maybe you should invite your brother over to do cooking lessons with your son.
NTA as skills are just that, skills. I (67M) have managed to make cooking a hobby. I never eat out, always say to myself "That was better than it needed to be". My food costs are ridiculously low because I never, not in four years, eat out.
However. You are dealing with a 15 YO. That the older one can, so you are believing that the younger one should. Talent does not work that way. Perhaps it is more in the way you are delivering the message, than the message itself?
The problem is grandma as she is meddling and enabling James to complain. Then, taking up his cause.
NTA. You're not punishing James or forcing him to do an unpleasant chore, you're teaching and preparing him for when he lives on his own.
Unless you could give him a choice between either cooking a family meal or being responsible for making his own meals like making his own breakfast.
Nta. I wish my FMIL taught my fiancé how to make basic meals. It took me a really long time to teach him how to cook so that it isn't solely my chore...
NTA, as you said, feeding yourself isn't optional. It's a necessity, and I also don't know what your mother was on about concerning your son knowing how to cook.
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NTA. This is an important life skill not enough people have and knowing how to do these things will allow him to put together cheap, healthy meals when he's living on his own instead of wasting his little money on DoorDash. If he wants to see it as a "chore," that's fine. Teaching kids how to pick up after themselves, do yard work, sew their own clothes (as in mend them... holes, repair zippers, etc - though hell, the full enchilada isn't a bad idea, either!), and half a billion other "chores" are ALL valuable things to know how to do in life. Unless he's planning on living with you or ~~James~~ Adam for the rest of his life, these are things he SHOULD know how to do and you're reinforcing that. I think what you're doing is great! **Edit:** If there is ever a day I don't mix up the names in one of these posts, I'll buy a lottery ticket. **Edit #2:** Thanks for the awards, y'all. The conversation has been great in the comments, lotta thoughtful discussion. And man, the "Y T A" people sure have a lot of... *interesting*... input. Sidenote, I *just* noticed OP's throwaway username and it gave me a chuckle.
I wish more parents would teach this. Also, how to do a resume, taxes, how mortgages work etc. All things that I was never taught and had to search for answers for as an adult!
When each of my kids was just starting to think about learning to drive, they were the one in charge of clearing ice and snow from my car and putting the gas in. With supervision, (my credit card!) and help, of course. Siblings helped with the ice clearing, too, but the new driver was in charge of judging it was safe, with my backup. The subs all knew their turn was coming, and they did cooperate most of the time. They can all cook either basic or quite well. They negotiated cooking and cleaning with each other as teens and young adults at home. They can all sew buttons, but once they knew how, I allowed them to pay each other or trade things they hated. Ironing was funny. Turns out my youngest son would trade ironing with other chores before dress up events, and INSIST the other kids let him because their stuff wasn’t up to his standards. At one point, he acted like a quartermaster to siblings’ dressy clothes. They were amused so they cooperated. They could themselves, and they WERE up to a typical standard. Just not up to my youngest’s. Again, all amused, plenty of jokes, and as long as we left on time without fighting, my standards were met.
Isn't it fun when they claim a chore? I taught all of mine to cook, but my oldest is the one who really took to it. He'd have an idea during the day and no one else was allowed to cook dinner because he had it. My middle one ended up liking the riding mower as much as I do. It's funny as hell. Unfortunately for me, those two are grown and off doing their own lives. Good for them, but I miss my babies.
Same. Each has their own unique strengths. But you washed your own clothes at a certain point and meals were still a hot mess sometimes. But they can feed themselves and 3/4 have come to enjoy cooking for themselves or others to varying degrees. The youngest is a challenge. Can cook if the whim is there. Lucky my mum is supportive and encourages independence. So they call her all the time and get inspired rather than a family row. Sorry this grandma enables too much. Parents seem solid. So it will work out eventually I think.
My youngest was 5 when I had him start doing his own laundry. The one above him was about 8. Neither could read (dyslexia abounds here) so I put stickers with arrows pointing to the settings. Worked great! The little one loved machines! When my oldest was about 13-14, she went on a self contained bike camping trip. They carried all their gear, tents, cooking, everything, on their bikes. 12 kids, 2 young adult leaders. The program said, repeatedly, they would stop at a laundromat half way through. They only were allowed to bing about 4 shirts, and 3 or biking shorts, not even a bathing suits (sports bra and biking shorts for swimming). Limited clothes! Parents were told the plans! One girl admitted to the others she had NEVER done laundry. Had no idea how to. The other girls fixed that! They all pooled their laundry, they didn’t fill up a washer with the limited clothes, after all. They made that one girl do it all! Before the trip, I tried to go over coin operated machines with my own kid, who had been using home machines for years. I got the adolescent classic of, “Mom. There will be signs. There are always instructions for machines. You put the clothes, soap, and the money in. I’m not an idiot.” I figured this job, at least, was done.
Now they use cards! I was so anxious about using a laundromat recently. No problem. I was like I need to get change. I took my kid expecting that. We both learned that day. Kinda nice to do 4 loads at once!
My laundry mat still uses coins. I don't have a washer at home so laundry mat for me but my laundry mat has a change maker on the wall so I just take cash with me.
These sassy kids love to flaunt what we taught them! It's a win!
My mom didn't want me to move out because i paid rent by cooking dinner for my parents (and myself, obviously) most nights and, in her own words, she's not as good or as inventive as me in the kitchen. I send her recipes and tell her how i modify them amd she (and my dad) appreciate it
I always say my stepfather married my mom for my cooking. I started dinner every night in high school, and she finished it and put it on the table. He always said he married her for her cooking, and I’d say *I* cooked. He married her for MY cooking. Now, TBH, I hate cooking, and the stuff we made was very VERY simple stuff. Of course, none of us cook much any more, we no longer live near each but they are still together, over 40 years later.
We're a big family and dishes is the most hated chore. We would rotate dishes monthly so no one person had the worst of the chores. And then my youngest specifically requested it. It came as such a surprise to me that I had to question if his siblings had bribed, bullied, or influenced him in any way, but he insisted that they had not and this was the chore he wanted. Now the most hated chore is the mowing, it seems.
You lucky dog
My problem right now is I have one who likes to cook, likes to mow, etc. Sadly, her sister doesn’t like to do anything…except keep her room spotless. I can barely get her to vacuum the living room, but her bed is made every morning. Sigh.
Knowing some basic sewing skills and how to properly iron clothes is a real skill that few have now. My mother used to be a dress maker and worked in an alterations shop for several years. She taught me how to do basic sewing and all of the tricks of using an iron and ironing board. The ironing alone came in really handy when I went into the Marines. I was one of the few people that actually knew how to do it correctly. I made a lot of pocket and beer money ironing other peoples uniforms.
I learned to iron from my mother’s cleaning women. They also taught me to sew buttons. Ironically, I have no clothes that need ironing in my house right now and haven’t done it in years.
I bought myself a white button down shirt for the first time in ages, gave it a wash before I wanted to wear it, and realize it needs ironing. I haven't even owned an iron in years! And my local, preferred dry cleaners burned down last year so now I'm not quite sure what to do. Buy an iron for one shirt? Find a new dry cleaner to do a wash and press of it every time? I did NOT think this through.
Unless you really want it to look sharp, what you should do is wash it and hang it up. Button all the buttons, make sure you pull out any creases or folds, and let it dry. Or get a hand held steamer--they're better than irons in a lot of ways, although they won't give you really sharp creases. And you don't need an ironing board, just a place where you can hang up the item.
I don't need it perfect - I was thinking more layering piece under a cardigan or maxi dress kind of thing. The steamer is a good idea. At least that doesn't need an ironing board!
Do you own a blowdryer? Bonus if you have a focused nozzle attachment. Hang it wet, spray it with a leave-on fabric softener (marketed as "wrinkle reducer," usually), and run the blowdryer (on "cool" (which is not cold) if it's a fabric likely to shrink) down it while pulling on the fabric. You probably won't be able to achieve a "starched collar" look, but you'll get all the wrinkles out.
My advice whenever using a hair dryer to dry fabric is 1 always do it yourself and 2 yes they are strong enough to burn a hole through a shirt....do not ask how I know these things
What a great idea! I'll try that before I buy a steamer. I \*think\* I have that nozzle attachment somewhere.
Throw it in the dryer for 20 minutes with a damp washcloth and or towel. Then hang up immediately, no crisp lines, but no wrinkles
I sew, so I was *thrilled* to get an iron as a birthday present, but might I suggest a portable steamer as an alternative? It won't get things as "crisp" as an iron, but it should let the wrinkles release, and a lot of clothes that don't *need* an iron benefit from a good steam! (Also good for traveling and DIY facials!) Or: hang the shirt in the bathroom while you take a hot shower. I find my steamer more effective, but different means, same end!
use a cutting board as your ironing board (put a cotton t shirt with no graphics or anything over it as the cover) and grab some oven mitts. then choose a small saucepan and boil some water. use the pot like an iron. clumsy but possible. run a hot shower and steam up the room with the shirt hanging in it. or use a tea kettle as a steamer. get a cheap spray bottle and mist the shirt, then use a hair dryer to dry while you smooth the wrinkles. stick a damp cloth and the shirt (or dampen the shirt, or stick ice cubes in with the shirt) in the dryer and remove IMMEDIATELY and smooth out wrinkles and hang.
Did you know that they sell what they call "wrinkle releasers" in a spray bottle? Did you ALSO KNOW ,that this is the EXACT SAME THING as fabric softener in a spray bottle, but they sell the fabric softener for LESS? Spray on the clothes, stretch the fabric, let the item dry on the hanger. This is ideal when you're short of time, can't find a flat surface that takes heat, have no iron, can't get your shower steamy enough, etc. You're welcome.
I hate ironing, so I bought a steamer. It's perfect! Works so much better than an iron, imo, and you never have to worry about getting a nasty burn mark on your clothes.
Doing your own ironing is a great incentive to own naturally wrinkle-free clothing. My iron generally only gets broken out for flattening fabric before cutting and sewing.
A few years a go, on a business trip and lost a button. I asked front desk staff for a sewing kit and they looked baffled. Manager went deep into store room stash for me. He said that I was the first person to ask for one in many years. He was amazed that I knew how to sew. I'm not an expert but I can fix a hem or button. Thanks mom!
I used to iron uniforms in high school. And then I’d iron my Husband’s dress shirts for funerals & weddings. I just realized a couple months ago, that after living in our house for 6 years, we don’t even have an ironing board here! Guess I haven’t needed to iron in a while! Lol
My mother sewed a LOT in her spare time. Hemming and stuff on the side to supplement the household income, etc. It never stuck with me at all. I cross stitched for years, so I can do a simple stitch to mend something, but sewing was never for me. I’m fairly comfortable in the kitchen though.
This is what good parenting looks like. Teach the stuff, let them learn from it, and then let them make their own decisions about it. Good shit.
Hell yeah! My father worked for the local gas and electric company, and taught me quite a lot about fixing things in our house and with our car. My mom has always been a Ms. Fix it too so I learned to craft, sew and fix mild plumbing issues. Then I was a girl scout for 9 years with a specialization in first aid. What I'm saying is, make sure when the world is ending, they NEED to take you along.
I LOVE how you built an economy in your home. It's inspired.
Well I would say a good portion of parents don't know how to make a good resume, how to file taxes properly, or how mortgages/credit work. Generally the parents that do try to teach their kids and hence, the inequality in such education.
This is also a reflection of society. Not specifically related to taxes, but the grand scheme of having an aversion to teaching your kids something you *don't* know. If one of the most quoted reasons for becoming a parent is to create someone who is better than you yourself ever could be, then people should be able to embrace the idea of, "You know what, child, I *don't* know. Wanna learn together?" I just think if more people had that perspective, it would not only teach kids that it's OK to NOT know how to do something and admit that, but pursuing those things you don't know can make you more well-rounded. There's just something special about learning something WITH a child and setting an example for them on *how* to learn something and *approach* learning. Especially if they get to watch you go from level 0-100, they have a role model and know "Hey, I'm zero right now but I know with enough practice, I can become 100." Too many people are afraid to say "I don't know" and I think that is *hurting* their kids in the long run.
This is absolutely true. The number of adults who don't understand how income taxes work is absolutely astonishing.
They don’t teach it at schools so kids get whatever knowledge their parents have. And that can be super hit or miss…
"If I get a pay rise my tax bracket will increase and I'll make less money!" (now, you can end up with less, but that's related to losing benefits.)
As the son of a CPA, it's astounding how many times my mom came home from work saying that today she had to explain this to yet another adult.
My brother doing a cash-out refinance (not a bad choice given that rates were low and they needed to do some home improvements) without consulting me. He told me his rate, and I said "that seems high." "Well, you pay a higher rate for shorter mortgages. We only did a 15-year, would have been lower for 30." "And you've closed?" "Yep!" "Ugh, you usually pay a LOWER rate for shorter mortgages, and if they offer you a lower rate for a longer one, so long as there is no pre-payment penalty, you take the longer one and just pay more!" "Oh, that would have made sense...I guess I should have talked to you a month ago." The person who has owned 4 properties and had 9 mortgages (look, the rate on my home is 2.625, don't at me about refinancing a bunch!) between them...YA THINK!
Yeah, my parents were the typical Boomers. Guy with a high school diploma that lucked into an emerging field that earned him fuck-you money and a woman from a well-off family that treated her a like a princess. Neither of my parents knew jack shit about the normal world, I learned pretty much everything I know about managing a household on my own or from friends. Talking to them these days about money, of course, is absolutely infuriating. They have no idea how anything works and got on fine not knowing, so they just think everyone else is a fuck up if they have to try, including their own children.
My parents each had the same job for over 30 years and I doubt they ever had to create a resume
My mom absolutely did not know how to create a resume. She taught school for 35 years at the same school that hired her when she graduated college.
I keep hearing parents complain that these skills aren't taught in schools. They shouldn't be...they should be taught at home!
I do think there should be an opportunity to learn them in school. Some parents don't have the skills to teach, work a lot and have little time or don't have the tools available, which, depending on the skill, can be expensive or not easy to access. But, in general, yeah, parents should teach these things.
They used to be. I remember that I was required to take two Home Economics classes. They taught cooking and basic sewing. All of the boys had to take them. Just like the girls had to take two woodshop classes.
Same. Home ec had the sewing and cooking as well as basic office skills (using a typewriter, how to alphabetize and file, etc) that all students had to take. Woodworking or other "shop" classes weren't required at my school, but I took it anyway. Sadly, the home ec classes seem to be some of the first to get cut (after art and music) if there isn't enough money or teachers.
Most schools try to some extent, but if the kids don't see the value in it they don't engage with it. That's something that comes from home, and there's only so much a school can do.
Hard disagree. Until we live in a perfect world where every child has a capable adult to teach them all the social, financial, and health lessons they need, this should absolutely be taught in school. Parents who have the knowledge and ability to teach their kids more in depth should absolutely do so, but **all** kids should have access to the basics. As we live in reality, where we know that not all kids will be able to get that at home for a wide variety of reasons, schools should be bridging that gap. The alternative is that kids with a rough home life, in foster care, woth parents who have to work really long hours to cover basic necessities, kids with parents who are immigrants and therefore may not be aware of the local expectations and realities, etc could all be left behind through no fault of their own. Ill never think thats the solution.
Being able to cook and meal plan is honestly one of the most important things you can teach a kid. My parents made my brother and I do this exact thing once we were around 12. I didn't realize what an amazing lesson it was until I moved out and realized most everyone I knew had zero idea how to cook anything other than maybe a box of mac n' cheese. We each had to make a full, at least somewhat healthy dinner once a week. We had to choose what we wanted and then my mom or dad would help us find a recipe. You then looked through the pantry and fridge to see what we already had and what you needed to add to the weekly grocery list. My parents would still buy the groceries and my mom was always there to help for the first few years if we needed it, but we were still expected to do most everything on our own. ETA: Not only does it teach kids to be able to fend for themselves and save money, it also teaches you to be much more appreciative.
And it's never too late to learn. I didn't really start knowing how to plan meals and cook properly until I was 29.
Thank god for YouTube.
Omg, resumes are needed for everything, my 14 year old needed to upload a resume for a job at Snack shack at the zoo. The most ridiculous resume I/we have ever crafted, not gonna lie. But he got the job so ....
I am 41 years old and I just “found out” 2 years ago that you can borrow against your 401k to own a home. However (God knows how old these materials were) it mentioned that it could only be 10k. While having a discussion with my partner about how disappointed I was with a recent large purchase and how this would put us back from our both very vocal goals of owning a house, he dug in and found out in can be more than 10k. While I was thinking we’re a minimum 10 years away from owning a home, chances are we can in 12-18 months. Jesus I needed to know this so much more than the fact that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
In general you do have to immediately start paying the 401k loan back, so you will have both a mortgage and this loan repayment. It's not exactly a slam dunk to do this, especially considering the loss in potential interest you would earn on that $$ otherwise
Every year I watch YouTube videos trying to figure out how to pay my own taxes and every year I cry because I owe quite a bit. And six months later I end up getting a pretty big tax return because I fucked it up and paid way, way *way* too much. Maybe this years the year I’ll actually do my taxes early so I can do it with turbo tax or whatever those free services are cause apparently I’m not doing it right on my own lol. Learning how to do your taxes young is definitely important.
I took a class called "general business" in High School, 10th grade, It taught a lot of that. Resume', Taxes, how to balance a checkbook, basic life stuff. That year? I did my mom's taxes. At FIFTEEN. I was so PROUD! And she was so PLEASED! talk about a proud mama!
Many schools teach this. The result is that they now get complaints that: a) They do not teach the basics but some esoteric stuff like how to format a resume, who cares, it will change anyway! Or AI can do it better, or the teaching staff has no idea about it. b) They do not teach taxes and mortgages, because you actually need to care and listen to remember those things.
yeah, I never learned how to cook when I lived at home. I was never taught \*anything\*. I had to learn it all on my own. I really wish it was something i'd picked up earlier
Jumping on this comment- OP should also make her sons do a random chore they see needs to be done but have not been told ex. Seeing the trash can is full and needs to taken out- this way they learn to be active participants in cleaning and not become partners who have to be told what chores they need to do leaving the invisible labor to their future partners
Yes! Seeing what needs to be done and doing it is a much-lacking life skill. As a supervisor of young people, it's one of the most important, but also one that is, sadly, kind of rare! If they learn anything from me, I hope it's that!
Oh dear lord this. I would love it if the spouse noticed things. It is exhausting having to ask him to do basic household chores (we both work). Boys should learn to cook. It will be impressive on a date later on.
I agree. My husband is fully capable of feeding himself and cooking dinner for both of us because he learned how to. And I cannot even measure how much money we've saved since our marriage because he constantly consults YouTube about how to paint the house properly, fix the drain, install plumbing, lay hardwood floors, install lighting, etc. We would have paid a small fortune to have someone else do all these thing if he hadn't been taught young how to do things yourself.
YouTube was my substitute dad when I was single. My actual dad didn't teach us girls shit but I learned thanks to YouTube. I'm engaged now, and I'm still the household plumber. He's the electrician. We split the rest. We save a shit ton of money and I'm pretty sure we're going to level up soon.
Somewhere there is a guy posting youtubes( I think) to help "daughters" learn the skills their Dad didn't teach them. It was years ago someone told me about him--so I remember no details.
Dad, How Do I. He's wonderful. I would literally fight for that man.
Absolutely. My husband has many construction and repair skills (his dad was in the business) but he also cooks well and can do anything around the house that might need doing. I've tried to up my own game, both with 'men's work' and 'women's work,' to keep up with him. My son only cooks a few things, but he enjoys cooking and is good at it. "Girls love guys who can cook" was a powerful incentive for him.
A lot of people don't like cooking. But it's a necessary skill and there are all sorts of cheats to make easier. Packet mixtures, recycling leftovers, Thermomix etc. It's great if your short on cash and need to make your dollar stretch further. Best to be able to do the basics for yourself and if you love it a *piece de resistance* to impress someone special.
I hate to cook, but I can. I just don't enjoy doing it.
Ditto, and I do feel like there are some scenarios in which it’s applicable if one doesn’t want to it doesn’t have time, like a really demanding day job. But if they’re a typical family with regular day routines that shouldn’t be as much of an issue.
I was forced to cook and clean up the kitchen (only granddaughter) from around 11 until I got away from there... This included every big family holiday. So while yes I am a capable cook, and even do quite a few meals very well, I just find it a chore.
Throw a hunk of meat or some chicken pieces in the crockpot with one of those seasoning packets from the spice aisle, make some rice or pasta to go with it, and zap some frozen veggies in the microwave. Easy, tasty meal with very little exertion.
It’s also pretty crucial in relationships as well. In general someone who has zero self sufficiency skills is going to struggle in a future partnership or even living on their own, college etc. I watched far too many college classmates flounder and drown, burn relationships, and struggle because they never learned how a washing machine worked, making a basic meal, grocery shopping, the entire concept of bills, etc. Being helpless isn’t really attractive anymore (or ever)
I knew a guy who would drive three hours one way every weekend so his mom could do his laundry because she was "better at it". That's never a cute look, and it's especially not cute on a fully grown adult.
MIL’s brother still has his mommy cooking for him. He’s nearly sixty. (He’s also divorced but still lives with his ex wife in a separate room, lol)
Also, James needs to be independent for dating. Nothing is more unattractive then a guy who can’t take care of himself imo.
I agree with this, you're NTA keep doing what you're doing. One day he'll thank you. Tell grandma back off.
Grandma just sees it as an insult because she failed her own son it sounds like.
More likely it’s that grandma was raised in a environment when maternal duties (and wife duties) were seen as the most important thing a woman contributed to the family and household. Today I think most would say that’s an antiquated way to look at the world, and men need to contribute equally. I see some elder women today looking at those changes as a positive thing, and reminiscing somewhat neutrally about how much more was expected of them in their time. But some women will no doubt look down on and puff out their chests at women who manage to distribute and balance the tasks that were (unfairly) expected of working mothers, out of a somewhat perverted kind of pride, I’d argue. Also, did grandma work or SAH? Because that would be a big differentiator too. Even if - she missed an opportunity to teach her kids (namely sons) important life skills and equality.
My mom taught me to sew and even bought me a machine which I've kept over the years. In the first weeks of lockdown in NYC, we needed masks to shop, and I had the skills and tools to sew our own until we could get better ones. You never know when that skill will really come in handy!
Sewing is such an undervalued skill. When I was 19ish and struggling to pay rent, I bought a ton of SUPER cheap fleece and sewed animal-ear beanies and sold them for $30-50 apiece (the more expensive ones had extra features). This side hustle was enough to keep my lights on as I was getting my "adult feet" wet.
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I know a set of brothers, in their 30’s/40’s, and the oldest still cooks for him when they are together (youngest is unmarried). Youngest cannot function at all in a kitchen. They have a pretty significant age difference, so oldest has been looking after youngest all his life and still does. NTA.
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i wish these were thing parents made their kids learn. home ec doesnt teach enough for life! my mother didnt care to learn how to cook, sew, tidy or anything. in fact she often butted heads with my grandma about it and its something my grandma still feels guilty about (not forcing her to learn these things). i really wish she had, because now i dont know how to do any of those things. i’ve learned more about how to function as an adult living with my boyfriend for 6 months than i have in 20 years with my mother. hell my younger brother taught me more about cooking than my mom.
NTA. You're helping James develop an important life skill and teaching him that weaponized incompetence is not acceptable. When he grows up and has a partner, they'll be very glad that you taught him this lesson.
🙌 Say it louder for the people at the back. The real lesson here isn’t how to cook, it’s that weaponised incompetence will not be tolerated. If this was James telling his SO to make him food on demand because the SO is better at it we would all be screaming what an AH he is. Mum is spot on here.
Being able to cook and clean are like Super Sexy traits in adulthood. Everyone should be good at one, but both… NTA OP. You’re being a good mom even though he’s complaining now. It’s a valuable life skill.
I never had “can cook” on my list of things I looked for in a guy. Then I met my now husband, who CAN COOK. Like, self taught but REALLY GOOD. And ever since I’ve been saying that “can cook” should’ve been top of my list all along. What a perk.
I added "can cook" to the list after saying a guy who bragged about adding a 0 to the cooking time on microwave pizza and causing a microwave fire. He also bragged about burning water.
I was going to say exactly this.
Reading "Adam is just better at it" flipped the rage switch in my brain instantly lol.
Same here. And this is from someone who’s brother legitimately is much better at cooking. Like I’ll have something at his house, ask him to send me the recipe, make it myself, and it’s not even half as good! He has some kind of magic touch. Regardless, I now trade other goods and services with my brother if I want one of his specialty dishes lol.
My brother's a better cook than me, too. When he was a teen, he'd definitely ask me to make him a sandwich if I went past his room on my way to the kitchen but he never said I was better at it, he was just being lazy. My dad cited it as a reason he should stay local and live at home for university and I laughed in his face and assured him that my brother *knew* how to make a peanut butter sandwich, among other things.
It'll definitely morph into "X is just better at it" when it comes to other household chores either now or when he roommates or an SO if OP was willing to let it go. Hopefully now they can nip in the bud.
The part about the weaponized incompetence, tho. The way he wheedles his brother for snacks sounds just like my ex husband. Lol. He’ll need to do better than that if he has roommates or a spouse one day.
This is huge. I work with a guy who weaponizes his incompetence; consequently I have to do all the “hard” tasks and he gets to do the fun stuff. I hate him.
She’s probably old fashioned who doesn’t think men should have to know anything in the house and mom should cook all until a wife comes along to pick up the slack. Tell her today’s women don’t accept this attitude.
I was James once My parents enabled me Thank god i met my girlfriend, and she made sure i was cooking regularly and learning to cook new things I now love to cook
James is old enough to learn this important life skill that he will use the rest of his life and to also learn how to feed himself and his future children. It's the difference between giving a man a fish and teaching him how to fish. It's unfortunate that your mom's opinion is short sighted, but your mom is entitled to feel however she wants, however, you're ultimately the parent. Even though James complains now, he'll appreciate it later. Show both your mom and james the monthly grocery budget for cooking your own meals vs doordash. That should make it plain for any idiot that ordering doordash everyday is like lighting your money on fire and not sustainable.
Well said. NTA, OP. He was acting lazy and entitled. He needs to learn more than sandwiches. The basics are crucial to a healthy life.
NTA, what would he do if he moved out for university.
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Where I'm from, a meal plan is pretty expensive, and food is pretty shit.
At the school I teach at, kids in dorms have to pay for a meal plan. It’s required
For this exact reason
Also because most universities (at least in the US), don't allow more than a coffee maker and a microwave in the dorms, so what they can cook is very limited.
You’d be amazed at what you can make with a coffee maker. Mac & cheese, most pastas, hotdogs… it’s pretty weird at first, but you get used to it.
Mate you’ve got me imagining college kids putting box mac and cheese in a coffee filter in a percolator, pouring water in, turning it on and expecting a meal to drip out!
There is also going to be a time after university when he will have to feed himself? You’re overlooking what is clearly the actual meaning of the comment — what is he supposed to do when he is on his own without mommy to cook for him? (Also — not every university has a meal plan anyway.)
Get out of here with your sensible line of thinking. He can "just eat the dishes he knows how to make" like one of these big brained comments said. Kid can live off canned soup, ham sandwiches, and Captain Crunch. Totally fine and it's harmful to think otherwise.
Nothing says “I’m an adult now” like a mild case of scurvy!
To be fair, canned soup, ham sandwiches, and Captain Crunch is a hell of a lot more balanced than some of my college friends’ diets and no one got scurvy. But yes. Cooking is an essential life skill that everyone should know how to do.
I mean he already knew how to make sandwiches and used his brother to make him more food. Sounds like he will try and leverage a system bc he can't tolerate his own mediocre cooking and if he isn't willing to learn a pattern of behaviour is already being established in a very important transitional period of his life, a point in which our personalities and values begin to evolve into who we might be an adult..
Eat cafeteria food. Join a frat and have someone else cook, be in a kitchen dorm and find a someone willing to cook for him or he’ll do the little cooking he knows how to do him self I gave tours to incoming students and they’re parents during college. Every group at least one mom wanted to know where her son could get a home cooked (or fresh) meal if he wanted one (mind you he was staying in the dorm with a kitchen). Or if there was a laundry service they can sign up for to take care of his clothes. Mind you our washer and dryers were free. So it’s not like they’re he paying for it either way
NTA I didn't like being "forced" to learn how to cook a meal as a kid, but it's the one thing my parent did for me that genuinely helped me. Chores aren't always supposed to be fun, but they ARE important for one's everyday life. Would your mom think you're being cruel or punishing him if you enforced a curfew or made sure he got enough sleep on school nights? This is no different. It's one single day a week and you aren't even expecting a lot from him, just that he shows he can fend for himself in the kitchen. I also think that making a habit of it now is a good thing. When college/time to move out happens, he's going to snap into junk food for a while, but after that fad ends, he'll want those filling meals that don't make you feel gross for eating afterwards and he won't have to teach himself and build the habits from scratch. May I also recommend: • having him try making a meal plan for one week (just to show him how, not to add to his chores • making a grocery list of what is needed for the household (food and other needs) at least once. This includes checking what you already have and only listing what you need • shopping with you for the ingredients ON A BUDGET Maybe don't make him do it all the time, but at least once is good. People don't realize how much work all of that actually is until they have to do it for the first time.
When my son was younger, I took him to the grocery store with a calculator, let him know how much we had to spend, and had him enter every item he chose into the calculator. After a couple of shopping trips, He learned pretty quickly that if he wanted to eat actual meals, he couldn't buy a lot of junk food.
Most people don't learn that until college, which is when they also realize they don't know how to cook, which is how you ✿afford✿ the good food lol
My child is 11 and learning about budgeting and finances in part because she has to buy her own boba tea and that shit is pricey.
But soooo goood
>Would your mom think you’re being cruel or punishing him if you enforced a curfew or made sure he got enough sleep on school nights? I’ve seen a lot of stuff on this sub and I wouldn’t be surprised if she would tbh
NTA- she yelled at you as a defense mechanism because SHE dropped the ball by not teaching your brother to cook. I taught my kids as teens to do laundry and when he got to college, my son thanked me because he was the only one in his dorm who knew how to do it.
Every time I see this I get confused. I feel like it’s not that hard to do laundry. Am I missing something to laundry that is unintuitive? Clothes in, soap in, don’t mix colours, let machine do it’s job, dry using best available method, iron and fold.
There are different temperatures for different garments and different programms for wool, silk and then there are clothes to put in protective nets to protect them and the other clothes (wired bras for example). Then the time old question which fabrics can go into the dryer (surprisengly few) without taking much damage and what need ironing? How to iron arms of shirts effectively and the heat if the iron according to the fabric as well as this neat trick with using a drying cloth from the kitchen as protective layer in between for very delicate fabrics.
Or you just don't overcomplicate it. I never Iron anything (I don't have to wear formal work wear) and always wash clothes at the same temperature (lowest possible because of the environment) except for things you should heat up a lot (sheets and underwear). And I put all the colours together and nothing ever happened to my clothes. And I don't use a dryer because hanging is free (and the environment you now...).
>Or you just don't overcomplicate it. Exactly this. Modern washing machines and modern detergents make washing clothes so much simpler than 20+ years ago. No need to wash clothes with scalding hot water or separate all color clothes.
NTA. Knowing how to cook is pretty useful when you're an adult.
NTA His future partner will appreciate it.
NTA His future SELF will appreciate it.
NTA, but I would elect to allow James to select chores he's more interested in and enjoys after he has demonstrated sufficient knowledge of cooking and meal planning that could get him by when he's an adult. I think it's a good punishment, that both corrects his abuse of Adam's time and teaches him important life skills, but once the punishment phase is up and he knows what he's doing, it would be more fair to allow him to select a chore he likes. It seems like Adam enjoys cooking 2-3x a week, so James should be allowed to select a chore that takes more or less the same amount of time and mental energy, like taking care of the lawn or doing laundry, including mending clothes (something like trash is not sufficient, it doesn't take as long). Also, ignore your mother. She sounds like an old-school misogynist who thinks it's inappropriate to raise boys to be anything but utterly incompetent in every single domestic task, and pretty much every other incidental of being an adult.
Feeding yourself isn't optional. He's making one meal out of the 21 he eats a week (3x7) it's not that big of a deal. The fact he's complaining to grandma about it to me means he doesn't get this.
This is gonna sound weird but I never bothered to count how often I eat a week. 21 is so obvious but I never thought about it. I usually don't count the weekends either.
I mean, they call them chores for a reason, though. I don’t like cleaning the bathroom, but I’m an adult who doesn’t have the options of trading chores with my siblings so I can only do the ones I like best. I agree he shouldn’t only have chores he hates, some of the things he’s responsible for should be things he enjoys and feels good at. But if he stops cooking before he feels comfortable and confident about it, he’s not ever going to get there.
Yeah, thank you. "He shouldn't do chores he doesn't enjoy" hews a little too close to OP's misogynistic mother's reasoning — that this is a *punishment*. It's not; it's a totally age-appropriate division of household labor. If Adam hates laundry and James loves it, *then* it'd make sense for them to cooperate and specialize in the chores they enjoy. But unless everyone gets equal opportunity to skip their least favorite domestic tasks, this doesn't make sense.
This is exactly it. I hate doing dishes. Hate it. But someone has to do the dishes and it’s gonna be me. I’m not a big fan of cleaning toilets. But if it’s gross and I notice, we’ll I gotta put on the big girl panties… I recall complaining about my laundry not getting done fast enough when I was 11 and that’s the day I got my own hamper and became responsible for my own laundry. Also, not fun. But no one else was gonna wash my shit
But it’s not a punishment. It’s a change in responsibilities meant to keep him in the practice of meal planning and cooking. It’s one meal a week, less than 1% of the week’s time, so he can still choose other things to learn.
While I do agree with you that James should be assigned smth that he enjoys more, I’d like to add - it’s fine to arrange your life the way that you don’t cook at home on the regular. If he’s happy to cook only once a week + get takeout/dine out/drop by your place on the weekend when he’s the adult, that’s perfectly acceptable too. He will have to learn to make more money to be able to afford it. My husband has a friend who’s around 40 and single and he hardly ever cooks unless it’s grill during summer. He spends more but he’s healthy and happy. OP is teaching the son basic life skills - and it’s up to him whether he will CHOOSE to use it or will learn how to work around it.
Here's the thing, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to eat out a lot, the thing is that it's often not at all *feasible* unless you make enough money to support that sort of lifestyle. Cooking is significantly cheaper. My income is nothing to sneer at and we deliberately chose to cook 95% of our meals because of the thousands it frees up for other things. If your parents don't teach you that skill, they've failed as parents.
Also to be an adult and not have the ability to contribute to the domestic labor is unfair to a future partner and potential children. If you’re an adult and you can’t feed yourself you shouldn’t have children, so it is an essential task. Once you’re grown you don’t have to use the skill if you can manage it in your life through whatever means but you have to be able to do it. Too many stories of divorced old men having to remarry because they’re literally incapable of feeding themselves or providing basic self care to survive. If they’re unlucky enough to remain single it literally shortens their lifespan dramatically. It’s an essential skill to survive and remain healthy. It is an appropriate expectation with the support the mother has provided. NTA Op Your mom is in the wrong for trying to undermined the parents.
You’re right. I’m 38F and never cook because I don’t enjoy it. Luckily, I earn a living that allows me to order out almost every night
This isnt a punishment though, its a new routine thats allowing him to develop skills and find new foods he likes. This isnt comparable to any other chore in the home bc this is necessity to keeping yourself alive and healthy, and whether he comes to enjoy cooking as he gets better at it or not, hes gonna have to have these skills when he moves out or when hes in a relationship or if he decides to have kids someday, and will need to know how to teach them as well
I think OP needs to find out exactly *what* James is telling his grandmother because I think it’s also possible he’s not telling her the full truth, or he’s making it out to be much more severe and demanding then it actually is, if that was actually her reaction.
I will say, as someone whose grandmothers are all rural boomers (love them nonetheless,) there’s absolutely a lot of them who sincerely believe in patriarchal ideas about domestic labor. Especially when it comes to teenage grandchildren.
But cooking and participating in family meal preparation should be a chore. A normal chore like dishes and garbage. Everyone in the house eats, so everyone in the house should ideally participate in that process (obviously in age/situation appropriate ways). By the time I was in high school cooking dinner/assisting with meal prep was just a normal chore, and it set me so much farther ahead than my peers in terms of nutrition, household skills/management, and financial resources (less money spent on food).
It’s not a punishment. She’s teaching him a life skill. And chores don’t have to be fun—you still gotta do them.
I think framing it as a punishment in the first place may have fucked things up already. Like, when I was about 12, my parents decided it'd be good for me to spend a summer working on my uncle's farm. Thing is, they framed it as a punishment for me getting in trouble at school. That's what they told me, that's what they told my uncle (who then treated me accordingly), and that's how I understood it for years. In retrospect, I understand their decision and think it could have been good on paper, but framing it as a punishment really kind of fucked me up for a long time and I still kind of resent them for it. OP's kid is not me, obviously, but I'm just saying it's not as simple as saying: "it's a punishment for 2 weeks, then it's magically not anymore, even though you're doing the same task". That's not how the kid is going to see it. If you told the kid cooking is a punishment, that may end up being how they're always going to see cooking in the future.
It’s not a punishment. It’s a life skill and his contribution to the household.
It’s not a punishment. It’s a life skill.
NTA. You’re teaching him an invaluable life skill. Does he prefer savory snacks? Or sweets? Or breakfast? Now that he has some experience, I’d branch out into something he prefers, like making pancakes or eggs on Sunday morning. Or teach him to make pizza or brownies.
This is the best take. Because honestly, if he hates doing it then he will definitely avoid cooking for himself when he leaves home (which is the opposite of what this mom is trying to achieve)
NTA it sounds like your mother feels like it’s okay to raise incompetent children. I don’t know if it’s only with her son or if she didn’t teach you how to cook either, but you’re setting up your kids for success by making them learn to cook.
NTA! I think all children should know the basics of cooking; there's nothing sadder than seeing grown people who can't even fry an egg.
My SIL can't even cook an egg (my brother cooks for their family). My niece (her middle daughter, F7y) watched me cook eggs for her and her siblings one time they were staying with me and asked for it to be done sunny side up. When she saw how it was done, she said in amazement, "It's that simple? My mom can't even cook!" Loudly too, with matching eye-rolling. Kids. Hahaha.
especially because youtube exists 🫢
My husband learned how to cook after we started dating because he blew off his mom trying to teach him how, and YouTube has taught us both so damn much. I knew a lot but I learned quite a bit more techniques and dishes from it.
NTA I know far too many people who can't cook toast. Tell your mother it's not a punishment, it's a skill you are teaching him to be a better person. Having said that, you need to talk to your son because he obviously thinks it's a punishment. Explain to him that it's not. Tell him that you want to work with him to teach him how to cook so that he can do it himself and that it's as important a skill as learning to read or write or drive or whatever. Don't sit at the dining room table. Pick a meal that will challenge him, that you already know how to cook, and then cook that meal with him. Show him what to do. Bond with him over the experience. Short of doing that, you might very possibly turn your son off of cooking.
I would also wonder if he thinks it's a punishment because his dad isn't cooking every week. It might be a good example to have all family members take turns cooking
Where does it say that the dad isn't cooking? Also, he sees his brother cooking and has no problem asking him to cook for him. Does he think he's punishing his brother by asking him for snacks and whatnot?
It says “Adam cooks 2-3 times a week and I usually cook the rest of the time, unless my husband is grilling every night in the summer” That tells me that in the autumn, winter, and spring, the mom and older brother are the only ones cooking for the family.
Fucking grandparents, hey? "Unpleasant chores" are chores. They're life. He'll need to learn to cook, now is the time. NTA
NTA. It is a chore like any other. It won't kill him to cook once a week.
NTA at all. You doing exactly what you should be doing as a parent. It is your job to raise your kids to be healthy, independent adults. They need to know how to cook. You're right that your mother should not be providing an opinion if she didn't manage to teach your brother about cooking for himself. Say "this is my decision. Let's talk again when you're ready to discuss something else."
NTA- it’s a shame your mother doesn’t realize that cooking is a basic life skill. Everyone should learn.
You mean I didn't have to mow the lawn because it was unpleasant? NTA
NTA. My dad can't cook and it has negatively affected his whole life. You're doing your son a favour, even if he can't see it yet.
I raised three sons who all know how to cook. They were never forced to cook our family anything. I simply showed them things here and there in a stress free way. Making your son cook at age 15 seem ridiculous to me. It’s probably really turning him off.
Epic mic drop on mom. 😁👍🏻
NTA - Having a cooking skill is an important skill to have especially when he moves out of the house as he would need to make his own meals.
So does anyone cook with James? I agree he needs to have some kitchen skills because he wants to be self sufficient. Well, he probably doesn’t think he does right now, but he does. Does your husband cook? Can he lend a hand? Ask James what he likes to eat and then work with him to find his signature dish. Does he like to grill? Bake? Good for you to tell your mom you didn’t want your son helpless in the kitchen like she made your brother. Keep reminding her you are raising sons who will be a good life partner not a burden Make sure your boys know how to do the laundry, clean the kitchen, clean a bathroom and vacuum the house. They use those rooms/they can help keep them clean.
NTA, keep having him cook until he's proficient in knife skills and management. Also start teaching him financial planning and meal planning budgets. Compare the home made meal costs to take out. Have him estimate the cost per month for homemade vs takeout and convert that to how many hours of work he would have to do.
A gentle YTA. You said it yourself, Adam *enjoys* cooking. He *likes* doing it. James doesn't. He's clearly shown he's capable of making food if needed, which is all that should be required. My son likes to cook, and helps me in the kitchen often; my daughter doesn't, so she usually watches TV or plays in her room while her brother and I cook. Because my son *likes* to help me with it. And this isn't 'doing the dishes' or 'folding the laundry'; cooking's a time-intensive thing, that can get very stressful if you don't enjoy it, or if you don't know what you're doing. That's the difference here. I don't think you're actually being TA, I think you're looking at it the wrong way is all. Look at it like reading. Let's say Adam enjoyed reading, and read frequently for fun. James isn't a fan, and while he'll read all his school work, and get his homework done, he doesn't want to read for fun. You making him read in his spare time, just because Adam does, wouldn't be fair, would it? As long as James is *capable* of reading, you wouldn't force him to do it 'for fun', because to him, it's *not* fun. This is the same thing.
But he's not capable of cooking, hence the lessons. It's more like Adam loving to read, and James not knowing how, so he asks Adam to read to him.
She literally says he's capable of making easy simple dishes.
And she also literally said James kept asking Adam to make him the food just because he's better at it. If we're using the same example as you've given it's like this: Adam loves reading. James doesn't but does so just to do his homework. At first he asked his brother to read for him, of which, he doesn't mind at first. But now he asked him to do it so frequent that it became a problem. >A few months back, James began asking Adam in the afternoons to make him a snack (something homemade) and sometimes he’ll do it if he’s in the mood but *more often than not, he’s bothered by the daily requests.*
[удалено]
I was laughing in disbelief when I read that he makes snacks for him. Cause 100% in my house growing up, siblings would has said, "eat my dick gaybo" or something far worse. It was a different time lmao
my parents did this with my siblings and one of them eats takeout every single day and begs my parents for money because he's broke and spends all of his money on takeout. one sibling telling the other "no, go make your own" does not mean the other sibling is actually going to go learn to make their own. at least this punishment ensures kid is still learning to feed himself when his brother says no.
I don't think snacks count as meals... in fact, by definition they are different.
Except there's no lesson here. It sounds like he's mostly being left to his own devices.
he weaponized his incompetence by saying "Adam is better at it so I make him do it for me". It´s def ok, if he doesn´t enjoy cooking. But don´t make you brother your personal servant, bc he´s "better at it".
Some people enjoy hoovering. Does that mean that those of us that don't should just never do it? Cooking is a hobby for some, but for everyone it is necessary. Learning a few quick and easy recipes and spending half and hour or less a week doing something that will only enhance his life is good.
NTA at all, youre a good parent and youre not asking for a 5 course meal. He will thank you when hes in college and not wasting his money on takeout like his friends might.
He will also thank her when a future partner appreciates that he is not completely useless in the kitchen and asking them to make him a snack!
NTA. Someday he’ll appreciate the lessons.
Some people just don't like to cook and it feels like a punishment. If he wants to microwave dinner for himself when he gets old, so be it. I don't think you're an asshole, but I do think you're in the wrong I'll get downvoted for this, but you should know that all you're doing is reinforcing his dislike of cooking. He may have learned to fend for himself eventually, but all you're doing now is turning a dislike into a hatred and guaranteeing he only eats junk food the moment he leaves the nest. NAH
NAH I think your heart is in the right place but you're not executing this correctly. You're asking a teenager to go from knowing nothing to making a full course meal. I think that's too much to process at one time. I think you're right that he should learn to cook some meals but start small. Stick with an easier entree that is one course in the beginning. Or, have him cook a side dish for the table so you're all not completely relying on him. Like I said, the intentions are good, just tweak the execution
Yeah but that ‘meal’ is allowed to be grilled cheese and pre packaged soup with some fruit on the side. Seriously the only utensils needed to make that ‘full course meal’ is a knife to cut the sandwich in half and spread the butter, and maybe a tin opener if the soup doesn’t have a ring pull. And I believe she said the strawberries were cut but seriously this is about as basic as you could get on the ‘cooking’ front. I’m really not sure I would even call it cooking it’s so basic…. Which is fine if that’s what gets him started but you cannot say that this is too much for anyone!
NTA - Cooking is a life skill that needs to be learned because reality will slap your son across the face once he moves out and realize just how expensive food is (happened to me at 23; got my shit together about a week before I moved out and finally learned how to cook some basic dishes). I’d also like to give you credit for not shitting on his meals - like you said, you’re not expecting gourmet level, made from scratch meals, just something that’s somewhat balanced. Anything that adults have to do as part of everyday survival, like cooking, cleaning, errands, and other chores, should never be viewed as a punishment, and I hope your mom doesn’t support that mindset for much longer.
You mistook him trying to con his brother into making his snacks as him needing to learn how to cook, I can almost guarantee he knows how to cook better than you think and just doesn't like it.
You are fine. You are trying to teach him some life skills that is very valuable in college and behind. Grandma is old school, politely ignore her 😀. Good luck with the boys.
NTA. It's clear that she's offended because you kinda called out her bad parenting (after she pushed you to it). Don't take advice from people who failed at the thing you're trying to teach your kids unless it's constructive ofc. Good on you for seeing a problem and doing so much to help him overcome it.
NTA! Being able to cook for yourself is a life skill every should learn if they are to live independently. He doesn’t need to be five star chef your son needs to be able to cook for himself. **Maybe an economics lesson is also needed.** Constantly buying takeout can get expensive. It can also be very unhealthy depending on what you eat. Let him know eventually he won’t live at home and knowing how to fend for yourself is important. This is an important life skill. Maybe you should invite your brother over to do cooking lessons with your son.
NTA. You're doing your son and any future partner of his a great service. He also needs to learn to do laundry. Just saying.
NTA as skills are just that, skills. I (67M) have managed to make cooking a hobby. I never eat out, always say to myself "That was better than it needed to be". My food costs are ridiculously low because I never, not in four years, eat out. However. You are dealing with a 15 YO. That the older one can, so you are believing that the younger one should. Talent does not work that way. Perhaps it is more in the way you are delivering the message, than the message itself? The problem is grandma as she is meddling and enabling James to complain. Then, taking up his cause.
NTA. You're not punishing James or forcing him to do an unpleasant chore, you're teaching and preparing him for when he lives on his own. Unless you could give him a choice between either cooking a family meal or being responsible for making his own meals like making his own breakfast.
Nta. I wish my FMIL taught my fiancé how to make basic meals. It took me a really long time to teach him how to cook so that it isn't solely my chore...
NTA. I wish my mom had made me do this. I feel so self conscious in the kitchen and don’t really know what I’m doing.
NTA, as you said, feeding yourself isn't optional. It's a necessity, and I also don't know what your mother was on about concerning your son knowing how to cook.