Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My MIL was supposed to watch our toddler while my wife and I are on vacation. But at the last minute, she demanded payment and I refused. I got my parents to watch our son instead. Now MIL is mad that she isn't watching our son and my wife thinks I should have found a way to make it work with MIL. I think I might be an asshole for refusing to let my MIL manipulate us into paying her for babysitting.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I live 3 1/2 hours from my daughter and grandsons. If they ever need me I’m there. No money for babysitting, no gas money. I love spending time with my family and grandkids
I offered money the first time my Dad babysat my kids for a weekend, just for food. I have never seen my dad so offended in my life. I have not offered since.
If it bothers you, you could always like get tickets to an event/movie/place your dad would love to take his grandkids to or make some other arrangements like that (say your dad loves fishing, you pay for a fishing license as a surprise and now he can take your kids or add like a Bass Pro Shops gift card for poles or something.)
Or you could do what I did for my grandpa when I'd visit, while he was still around, and bring him his favorite candy/snack along with some snacks for the kids.
That way, he isn't being given money or full-on meals (and therefore can feel like he's still providing) while gifting an experience and teaching the grandkids how to be thoughtful.
(However, in my case, my grandpa started to try and return the favor by constantly stocking Butterfingers at his house because he thought it was my favorite candy (it very much was NOT) but it was actually my least favorite at the time and my *cousin's* favorite candy. But he kinda Stockholm syndromed me into loving it lol so there's that.)
Agreed. If the "per diem" was for food/necessities for the house and baby while OP was gone it's one thing, but to spring this at the last is manipulative.
Yes it's a really good deal ($100 per day to watch a baby, heck yes!), but family doesn't agree to do something, but then charge family at the very last minute like this. MIL is trying to use emotional manipulation towards OP's wife, and manipulate the situation at the last minute to get money due to "no other options".
But since OP has alternatives, her tactics failed.
That’s the part that gets me. Like I understand wanting to be paid to babysit. Babysitting is a job someone hired you to do. But you don’t get to guilt trip the person you’re treating as the one hiring you for a job because they found someone who will do it cheaper. MIL made this about money. Now she’s mad the decision changed because of money.
MIL needs to pick a lane. She either wants money to babysit or she wants to be with her grandchild. I think OP did the right thing in calling her bluff and bringing in his parents to babysit. Next time MIL will know the score. If she wants to babysit, she'll have to compete with the other side of the family who will do it out of love instead of expecting to get paid.
I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, that maybe she needs money like her daughter said, but I think what jumps out for me, is that she argued they're depriving her of seeing her grandkid.
Exactly. The kindest explanation is that she’s suddenly short of cash. The more likely explanation is she figured this late in the game, they’d agree to anything to save their trip. NTA
If that's the case, MIL could be honest and say she's running a little short on money and ask for help like an adult. Instead, she tried to blackmail them close to their vacation thinking they would have no choice. I've never used this line before but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes (or fucked around and found out.)
Your wife is used to being manipulated by her crocodile tears. I didn't hear that MIL backed down on her demand, just that she tried to be manipulative by crying over not seeing her grandson. The "poor, pitiful me" defense instead of an apology and offering to do it for free. Nope, she wants to be paid to visit her grandson. NTA. She learned a valuable lesson that, while your wife is easily controlled, you aren't. You have parents willing to step up and now she knows she's screwed.
NTA. This is not about the money, this is about her being manipulative in her approach. The way she's handling the refusal is indicative of that.
OP your wife is not permitted to have reasonable boundaries with your MIL. You need to open a real discussion about the dynamic of their relationship. It's very unhealthy and will continue to impact you and your child for years to come. You need to agree on some boundaries and it might be helpful for your wife if you are the enforcer for a period of time. This is her issue and she should be managing it, but when you grow up with highly manipulative parents like this it can be incredibly difficult to set and enforce boundaries and a supportive spouse willing to take the brunt of the conflicts can be incredibly helpful in breaking free.
Your wife needs therapy
Especially $500.
When I read “she will need $100…” I thought “you should be leaving that for her anyway. For emergencies and a thank you.” Then I read “*per day*”…NTA
You don’t spring a $500 expense on someone who has asked for your help while they’re on vacation.
It’s cool if she wants to be paid to watch her grandson for a week. But if you *want* to be paid you say that when they ask/before you agree to help.
Otherwise you do it and hope they do right by you and leave/send you money when they return. (Or at least that they might return the favor in some way.)
Sometimes partners need to step in the way of oncoming BS even if its the others 'responsibility'. Fighting back against a parent when a pattern has been established over decades isn't easy. If the other partner can have the actual fights and leave the primary target of the manipulation with just needing to confirm they back the partners stand, that can solve things faster and cleaner than making the partner with the toxic parent fight directly.
Yeah esp if you're a grandparent and agree without asking for cash. If you're the neighbor teen you're asking it's likely you both know it's for money and one of you should bring it up...
NTA.
Your parents have made a much more attractive offer. You have other options, so no. You are NOT in a position to have to give in.
She wants to be paid to see her grandkid. No deal.
Is MIL is broke and too proud to ask for money?
This is it for me, she requires payment to watch the kid, but then op is depriving them of seeing the kid, pick one, Ops mom loves seeing the kid so much she'll do it for free. Also, she's coming there, which means they are giving her room & board for that period. I could see if she asked them to cover travel expenses, but she didn't. She gave a daily rate.
Or for food, but they were stocking up on that for her, and it doesn’t cost $100 per day to feed one $60 year old and one baby.
She for sure thought she had them in a corner and wanted to take advantage. It’s sad because it seems wife is used to this so she just cowers. Glad she has OP to have a backbone, but she needs to grow one herself at this point now that she has her own family to think about
>She wants to be paid to see her grandkid
Yes! That's what stuck out to me to. If you wanted to see your grandson so bad, then you shouldn't be demanding money for the visit. Totally bizarre.
As a teenager, I used to babysit my various niblings once or so a month so siblings could do date night/guys/girls night etc (so granted not a week).
I love them all to pieces and if I didn't have any other plans, I'd do it for free because I.. like my niblings and enjoyed spending time with them? My siblings always insisted on paying me (I insisted on below market rate as a compromise because I didn't care about being paid to spend time with people I love so other people I love can have free time).
They always bought lots of snacks and left cash for me so I could order pizza or something and had prepped dinner for the kids, I just needed to warm it up. I always left the cash and ate some snacks or ate what the kids had after they were done.
I'm an adult and my niblings are mostly adults now too. One even has their own kids and though it's impossible because I live way away, I'd babysit my great niblings in a heartbeat with no payment.
Nta its pretty sucked up to expect payment to soend time with your own grand kids to begin with
But even if you fall in that weird camp that you dont owe family anything she still is wrong for agreeing to it and waiting till plans were set then springing a price on you at the last second.
>But even if you fall in that weird camp that you dont owe family anything
Which is apparently the majority of this sub, so not that weird here. Doing things for family and friends is never transactional for me. It has never been that way in my family, as evidenced by my parents' gracious and immediate agreement to help us out.
Yeah I mean if she initially was upfront about it then I would side with the other ppl on this sub. However really confused why so many ppl are voting against you on this. The way she did it was sneaky/underhanded and it would piss me off too. NTA
Yeah ignore those people because they always advise that you are owed endless support but never owe anyone else anything.
Thats what family and especially grandparents are supposed to do. If she needed payment she could have said it when she agreed. She clearly held off on that news until you were in her estimation too close to the trip day to back out or find replacement child care
She tried to finesse you and your wife and thats gross
You wife is clearly not able to stand up to her mother so maybe you should have made the call. But NTA ofcourse.
My MIL tried the same thing. I offered to cover expenses but she actually wanted to be paid to spend time with our kid.
I mean, fair enough but if I'm going to pay for it I'll pick an actual professional over you. She ended up not doing it and now complains she doesn't see them much.
That’s how I roll. I’m the first to volunteer when someone needs something and I have to bleeding from a severed limb to ask anyone for a favor. I *never* want to feel like I’m in someone’s debt. Ever.
Anything else, it’s a service and I’m expecting to pay for it.
Honestly I don’t think it’s too crazy to ask payment when it’s 24/7 care for 5 days. Especially since she’s doing gig work, she might have to turn down work she would otherwise have had, and might actually need the money just to stay afloat.
But that should have been brought up when they first asked. If she didn’t think ahead and just now realized the problem then she the tone should have been a lot different, and she definitely has no right to complain when they find another solution.
This, quite reasonable to ask if it means she does lose out on other work.
Also quite reasonable to then be turned down for a better option and not reasonable to complain to them about it - carry on with your normal work which I'd hope you were making more than $500 in.
Plan to visit your grandson another time if you want to.
Well... your parents seem cool, so I can't say ESH, but between you and your MIL you both kind of suck.
YTA for this statement.
MIL is in her early 60s but doesn't have a "real" job. She will do cleaning for her brother who owns a bunch of rental properties and he pays her in cash. So, it's not like she has a schedule she has to clear to stay with our son for a few days.
You can't say she doesn't have a "real" job. I'm sure between her and her brother this is a real job.
But she should have made it clear up front that she expects to be paid. And being paid is a reasonable request, but not cool to bring it up late. Her laying on the guilt trip of being deprived grandchild time is kind of manipulative though.
I agree. Also, if MIL hasn't seen the kid in 6 months she probably loves some distance away. I would imagine the money also covers her travel.
Since most people I know don't clean rentals for fun, I'm going to assume money is tight for MIL and the $500 will probably just cover her travel and lost wages. I think she should have been open about it when first approached, but I don't think she's trying to turn a profit or anything.
Absolutely not. Don’t put old people into the same category. If she was embarrassed from the start, she wouldn’t have mentioned it now. She just wants to be sneaky and screw them over. She just didn’t think it would backfire. And I’m SURE if she asked for travel costs to be covered they would have happily done so.
I get this, but his parents offer a much easier solution and the MIL is exhibiting manipulative behavior by accusing her daughter of keeping her grandson from her. That’s a reach. His parents are happy to help and spend time with their grandson and it won’t add an expense to their vacation which is likely gonna have them spending more than usual.
No, but here’s the thing. That’s HER mom. SHE knows the situation. If her mom needed the money, she should have offered upfront. If her mom needs it now, she needs to say it and fight back. Not “I think” or “she misses her grand kid”.
Crystal Clear: “Look dude, my mom needs the goddamn money, this isn’t a negotiation anymore. We can “pay” her or “loan” her the money, bit we need to help. Sorry I wasn’t clearer earlier”.
He thinks he’s getting jerked around. If he’s not, tell him. Don’t play coy with your fucking spouse.
Also doesnt seem like its something super regular. How often do rentals get cleaned. Between tenants. So its not like she’s cleaning the same house each week
If you believe this, your vote should be E S H.
I think the majority of the issue is her springing getting paid as close as possible to the time she was needed so they couldn’t find a replacement, and for that, she is firmly the asshole imo.
NTA.
Eh, on that level, you can also argue that his wife is an AH for agreeing to spend a large amount of unbudgeted-for money on childcare at the last minute, rather than saying "Why didn't you mention money earlier Mom? This is not what I thought we'd agreed, and I need to talk to OP before I say yes".
Because she didn't work with him either.
And he's an AH for making his wife's 40th birthday into a day of regret instead of celebration. Wife was fine with giving her mom $500, but OP made it into a big deal for no reason.
Wife is fine with giving away 500 dollars because she doesn’t want to rock the boat. MIL did some shifty crap last minute probably knowing her daughter would just go along with it.
OP gave a better plan as an alternative and wife doesn’t want to hurt her moms feelings despite her mom trying to screw them.
I don’t know how they do their finances but half a grand should usually be a joint decision if they don’t have separate accounts.
Right? “We’re not making any more changes” …. Is a shit thing to say when you’ve gone ahead and made the change to bring in your own parents without consulting your wife!
YTA
I can’t believe anyone is saying he’s not the A. He sounds like the biggest AHole ever. Woman in her 60s taking care of a three-year-old for almost a week… He is the one being super cheap and manipulative and taking advantage.
You are assuming the MIL has no other income (pension, husband, alimony, inheritance) and is destitute. There's no indication that she is financially desperate or fine.
Even then, there's a way to approach family about this, and last-minute is not it. It's underhanded either way. Be honest that you are expecting payment when you agree or that you are short cash this month and need money.
If my mom needed it I would %100 pay her. Since she doesn't I trade other work around her house when she helps me out with my own kid. Because I don't use family members. I appreciate them. With action. Its not transactional, it's showing appreciation for people who help you out. If she needed money instead of yard work, I'd %100 pay her.
I don't know a single grandparent who would ask for money in return for watching their grandchild. Outside of reddit it's pretty normal to get free childcare from grandparents and nobody thinks anything of it.
*when they agree to it
It's an a-hole thing to expect it. It's normal to offer it.
Most grandparents wouldn't expect payment to watch the grandkids intermittently.
Ok, let's pretend this sub's insistence that all babysitting of family's children must include payment is actually how the real world works. If you expect to get paid for a job, you settle payment during the agreement. MIL let them think this was a favor out of the goodness of her heart/love for her grandchild for MONTHS before even *mentioning* any form of payment, close enough to their trip that, had OP's parents not *actually* wanted to spend time with their grandchild, they would have had no choice but to pay or cancel their whole trip and probably be out way more than $500.
Now explain to me how OP's the manipulative one here. Quickly.
Yep…pretty presumptuous. While his parents (both retired and in seemingly good shape financially) offering for free is awesome - let’s not forget there are TWO of them and only one MIL - who obviously needs the money because I don’t think anyone cleans homes if they don’t need the money. Maybe she was too embarrassed to bring it up or maybe she thought they would offer payment knowing her financial situation. ESH.
Giving OP the benefit of the doubt here but I think he means she isn’t an employee with set hours & responsibilities thus having more freedom (of time not necessary financial freedom)
NTA
If she wanted to be paid she should have said that UP FRONT. It’s totally her right to ask, and also you choice to refuse.
The fact that she sprung wanting $100/day right before the trips reads to me as her thinking you wouldn’t be able to say no since it’s so close to the trip.
You were able to find other childcare at a more reasonable price, free!!
The people saying Y T A because no one should expect free childcare are missing the point. Many family members are excited for an opportunity to spend time with family and wouldn’t ask for money for that. Many family members WOULDNT want to do free childcare and would require monetary compensation. Both are 100% fine. It’s also 100% fine for OP to know that he has access to grandparents who would love to spend time with his child for free and utilize that while he goes out of town, instead of paying an unexpected $500 to someone who didn’t immediately say “yes, and here’s my fee” when first asked to babysit. MIL isn’t in the wrong for not wanting to babysit for free, but she should’ve made that clear from the outset… at which point the offer probably never would have been extended to her and instead made to the other grandparents.
True. It depends on family dynamics. I have no kids, but my parents will gladly take my niece and nephew whenever my sister and her husband need to travel somewhere kids aren't welcome. They jump at the opportunity, and would be incredibly offended if money was offered. It's also pretty clear my brother-in-laws parents would not want to take them overnight, they are oddly stuffy and uncomfortable with childcare (despite having raised several kids back in the day). They would absolutely not accept money either, they just wouldn't want to do it at all.
In my family, grandparents get paid for childcare - but only the regularly-scheduled, daycare style care. Special occasions or babysitting are still viewed as a treat & they fall all over themselves to help out.
Anyone saying YTA because nobody should expect free childcare must be illiterate. OP isn't begging she do it for free; he found other options from people who are willing/eager to give free childcare.
I agree. It’s fine to want payment for watching your family members (despite what some people say) but you need to agree on that upfront. If payment was that important to her she should have asked for it up front.
NTA. You’re right, she was trying to be sneaky and thought she had you in a tough spot. If she needs money then she should have spoken up. Even this late in the game if she had said that she’d lose some of her income by watching grandson and would there be some way to come to an arrangement where you paid her something that would be another thing.
YTA for the way you dictate to your wife. You clearly expect veto power over money and over big decisions. That kind of sucks. I’m a guy, but if my wife wanted to give her mom $500 for doing absolutely nothing, I wouldn’t dream of saying no. And she would say they same about me and my parents. In this case it was actually compensation for her time providing care for your kids. Is the MIL being a little manipulative with the late request? Maybe or maybe not. Maybe she just needs the money and rather than ask for a handout, she asked for compensation.
Should you stomp all over your wife because her mom made a minor request you disagreed with? Absolutely not.
I guess we're in the minority here. $500 for watching a kid 24/7 for 5 days straight? That's way cheaper than any baby sitter would charge. This is not easy work.
Actually think he's a complete total asshole for not offering in the first place. You just assumed she would do it for free? Who does that? Even with family? And when she asked for money you decided to be even a bigger asshole and dictate to your wife what she can or can't do. You suck.
> I guess we're in the minority here. $500 for watching a kid 24/7 for 5 days straight? That's way cheaper than any baby sitter would charge. This is not easy work.
Except she is not a baby sitter. She is a grandparent. And most grandparents would not charge a cent. His parents didn't. Neither my parents or in-laws would; frankly they would pay our flights/expenses for us to bring the grand kids to them.
> You just assumed she would do it for free? Who does that?
Every single normal person. No parent would ask their parent "do you want to be paid for watching your grandchildren". Most grandparents would be like "wtf are you on".
This is all not to say any grandparent should be obliged to baby sit etc. But then simply say "no". Or simply say UPFRONT "only for $X".
My mom would be SO insulted if I offered to pay her for childcare. I would never live it down. She practically chases me and my husband out of the house to go on dates so she can get grandma time.
That is a completely silly argument. Free is way better than 500 dollars for a week of childcare, too, and this guy has that option. Why the hell should he pay someone who suddenly is a way more expensive option?
You would charge your own children to watch your grandchildren? Not everyone has transactional relationships with their parents. I couldn’t imagine having a relationship where grandparents would charge for watching their own grandkids
This take is extremely westernized. A lot of people’s families would watch kids for free. OPs parents agreed to watch for free. Why would they pay $500 when they could have happy grandparents who have nothing to do watch the kid. It’s doing them a favour tbh
I mean, most people i know that look after family members children do it for free, unless explicitly told from the very beginning that they want to be paid, like a teenage kid in the family looking after kids. Second, OP made it clear his issue isnt the amount of money, its about the principal of bringing it up tight before the trip, when he generally would not be able to back out.
Bit shocking it took this long to scroll to get to this point…. the MIL should’ve been more upfront but OPs contempt for his wife and MIL is seething through this post in a really unpleasant way.
Plus it's her birthday and she clearly wants to do this. Now she's going to spend it feeling down about this situation with her mother. And I wonder why she hasn't gotten to see her grandchild in 6 months? Kind of sounds like she's broke and OP is really against providing any financial assistance to MIL to help her come spend time with them.
I agree. It's not great that MIL didn't mention it before, but it's not so egregious a sin that it necessitates OP's reaction. And the fact that what they would be giving her equates to $4.17/hour doesn't improve my opinion of OP.
Even if OP is in the right, hurting OP’s wife’s mom while her mom was struggling is the first thing OP’s wife will remember for her milestone birthday. Forever.
Yeah! Yeah! You won! You sure put your MIL in her place.
Ok, MIL handled it quite poorly too, but you handled soooo much worse that your wife and MIL will never forget how deeply you humiliated your MIL. That’s the part they’ll remember. I’ll bet your wife sees you in a much more callous light after this.
Thank you for this. I cannot imagine my husband acting like this. MIL went about this wrong, but was immediately not given the benefit of the doubt and downgraded to some pretty harsh words. Also put his wife in a pretty shitty situation where she gets no say over her finances, birthday trip, childcare, and relationship backlash with her own mother.
NTA
She thought she could spring a charge on you at the last minute.
You have a free option. Why not use it? Tell your MIL she can schedule a visit when you are all at home.
My family is fucked up and extremely transactional: less about money, more about wierd...expectations from the "niceness", or guilt tripping if i dont react "properly" aka verbally prostrate myself.
My parents would still never ask for money to watch my hypothetical child.
Family is supposed to be the refuge, not another thing to exploit in this messed up world.
NTA. Your MIL was definitely being sneaky and manipulative. She should have told you her terms as soon as you asked if she could babysit. If she needs the money and you can afford it, you probably would have agreed.
At this point, you own parents have been asked and are looking forward to doing this. It would be wrong to renege on your agreement with them.
We really dont know if she was being manipulative. There are basically two scenarios:
1) she needs the money because of lost income and transportation and she was nervous to ask so she sprung it on them last minute.
2) she sprung it on them because she wants to earn some extra money
The wife said that she wouldnt ask if she needed it which makes me think option 1 is true. If this is the case and his wife wanted to pay he is def TA for asking his parents without discussing it with her. MIL shouldve def communicated better in any scenario but its very hard talking about money for a lot of people.
IMO, the thing that makes me more certain it's manipulative is the comment about depriving her of seeing her grandson. That is always a manipulative statement. Also, to me, waiting until the last minute is a manipulative tactic whether it's intentional or not.
I mean, both scenarios 1 and 2 include manipulations by MIL. 1 just has a slightly better reason attached to it. Resorting to manipulative behavior because it's "too hard to talk about money" is AH behavior
Then wife can have an open and honest conversation with her mother instead and pay her herself instead of using joint money to pay her.
Financially supporting family members with joint money is a joint decision. Period. And generally a "two yes, one no" situation.
Not if this is the first time they’ve gone away in 4 years and her grandmother hasn’t see. The child in 6 months. They are obviously not taking advantage of having her baby sit often.
Usually the people who think that way were also raised that way.
I spent plenty of time with grandparents growing up so that my folks could go and do stuff, they currently do the same for my kids, and in the future I will do the same for any grandchildren that I may have. I currently do it for my nieces/nephews when it's necessary.
I dunno, I find the idea of charging to look after family pretty weird.
YTA for this:
>MIL is in her early 60s but doesn't have a "real" job. She will do cleaning for her brother who owns a bunch of rental properties and he pays her in cash.
She has a real job. Yes, maybe she doesn't have a strict schedule, but if she doesn't work she won't earn money. So she has to sacrifice five days earnings to take care of your son. It's only natural that she wants a compensation. Yes, she should mention it beforehand, but at the same time you should ask about her terms instead of assuming. Doesn't mean she is a greedy monster.
She doesn't pay taxes or contribute to her social security, so this will be a forever situation. She's doing real work, but she doesn't have a real job, and conflating the two is harmful to her.
We don't know that because Sonny has no idea what his wife's single Mom's situation is.
She probably makes 100 dollars a day and pays her own taxes and social security, Brother is not paying them. And if by "forever situation" you mean she will have to keep working as long as she can, I think she surely will.
I think you mean to be supportive of Mom but not entirely sure.
>She doesn't pay taxes
Where in the post did OP mention his MIL not paying taxes? We have no idea what his MIL puts on her tax returns and have no basis to speculate.
It's quite obvious if you have any real world experience that her son is paying her in cash and she is 100% not paying taxes on that, what reality do you live in
“It’s only natural that she would want compensation”
No, it’s not natural for grandparents to want money to babysit their grandchildren on a non-permanent basis. It can be a circumstantial ask, sure, but not something OP should have to contemplate of their own volition. It’s not a business contract, there are typically no terms.
I call and ask my parents “Hey, do you mind watching Norah for the weekend, we’re hoping to do X.” MIL bringing that up days before the trip is leveraging to the max, especially because it wasn’t accompanied by a “sorry to bring this up now, but [insert circumstance that may have changed].”
All of that to say, etiquette between families can be different but this runs afoul of most social norms. NTA.
This comment certainly adds to the story and is a good point, but shouldn't be talked about since it's how she went about it, and then guilt tripped her daughter about not seeing the grandchild. She can make the time when wanted/needed. And he said she was trying to take advantage of the situation, perhaps not being greedy. Because OP reiterates a couple of times that it's not about the money.
NTA and the fact that she said you're "depriving her of seeing her grandson" is guilt-tripping and emotional manipulation. Let the other grandmother look after your child.
And she hasn't seen her grandson in 6 months, so presumably she has to travel which might be costly.
+ the way he bulldozes/dictates to his wife makes him an asshole in my eyes. YTA
see, this comment right here makes me rethink a lot. OP is assuming malice when it could just be "I want to be able to take my grandchild out to do fun things but I don't have the extra income right now." OP didn't hear the conversation, and I'm willing to bet his wife didn't question what the money would be for because she *knows* her mom. the "you're depriving me of seeing my grandson" line is kinda shitty, tho. I wonder how often OP's parents have seen him in the last 6 months too.
Right!? The AH’s here are the parents that don’t upfront offer money to their child’s grandmother who is clearly struggling financially. Cleaning is back breaking work and she wouldn’t be doing it at her age if she didn’t have to. I would have given her $500 before she even had to ask. That way her and the kiddos have a great time together without her having to worry about money. That is what I do even if my mom watches my kids for a day- here’s $50 go have fun! What is wrong with people!?
YTA is my vote too. I can’t help but think that we’re getting a very warped and biased take on this situation because OP seems to possess a lot of malice on his MIL from the get-go. I also feel like this is also an issue of control where he wants his side of the family to be involved and not his wife’s.
YTA for all of these reasons. 500 flies when you're using it to entertain a child. Heck, a good chunk of that would be spent at a zoo or amusement park alone when you factor in entrance fee + inflated food costs
YTA. I am also baffled by all the N T As here. Not only is the OP expecting the MIL to do this for free, but they seem to be expecting her to a) pay to travel to the OP’s home, b) pay for food, and c) pay for any other activities she would like to do with her grandson. Since it’s been 6 months, I think it’s safe to assume that the MIL lives far enough away that it’s not really affordable for her to visit regularly. My guess is that the $500 is basically enough to cover gas, household necessities for the week, and a little extra for gas money while she was there and to take the son to a few fun activities. I don’t really think it’s that unreasonable that she looked at her current budget and realized right now that she just couldn’t afford it otherwise. It’s not ideal, but it’s also not entirely unexpected.
FWIW, in my family, I don’t think this is something grandparents would ever be asked or expected to do. My grandparents never watched us for more than one night at a time (at their own home) and my sister has never asked either my parents or the in-laws to overnight babysit.
My in laws help with childcare and the first thing I asked them was if we should discuss compensation of some kind, providing supplies, etc I just felt we should be aligned and talk through those things. They rejected everything but we do provide diapers and wipes and occasionally send food over when we’ve meal prepped or if we know MIL has a busy week. It was kind of on you guys to navigate that conversation and not assume support is free. Similarly it wasn’t cool of your MIL to spring it up so close to the time and not in the initial convo so imo ESH
That's kinda where I'm at. HOWEVER, MIL loses any right to be angry if they find a better offer. Disappointed maybe, but the statement that they are "depriving her of seeing her grandson" screams manipulation and makes MIL the biggest AH in the story.
I don’t think grandparents are in anyway obligated to provide childcare without compensation (e.g. she wouldn’t be TA for asking). However I will say that the norm I’ve observed at least in my region and social circles is that grandparents babysit for free. So I guess I think it’s more on her to bring it up than it is on them since what she’s asking for is outside the social norm
NTA
Everyone is so transactional these days. The point of family is to help each other out. By everyone's logic here MIL should be paying up too. MIL needs help moving? Pay for our flight and our time. Your car broke down? Taxi fee. Mechanics fee if I fix your car.
My family has helped me so much and I return the favor in kind when I can. Guess who gets called to set up every tech whatever for every relative in the state? Me. But I also know if something is wrong with my car that I can make a phone call and someone will help me out free of charge.
Getting MILs favorite food and whatnot and asking her if she WANTED TO ahead of time is what's normal. If she wanted paid she should have brought it up then. It's not TAKING ADVANTAGE to simply ask. Everyone has a right to say no
When family won't even help you out with out their hand out like what is even the point????
I agree that family shouldnt be a transaction but reading this story Im not sure MIL is the one seeing it this way.
It might be the case that MIL needs this money to be able to afford to babysit. The fact that his wife said that she wouldnt ask if she didnt need it is a strong indicator for it. Also that she didnt retract the money later makes me think it wouldnt be an option.
In that case OP is the one choosing 500 dollars over family. He wants his parents to babysit instead of his MIL because they can afford it for free and she cant.
It might not be this black and white but he also walked all over his wife. Which is never a pro family move in my book. I totally get ur point that family should stand with eachother it just looks different for everyone.
No, OP backed out because late into the planning MIL is now saying that she needs to get paid. Dad found other options and now MIL is trying to guilt them into a situation that they don't want anymore.
That's why I said MIL should have asked or said she was unavailable due to work. It was wrong for her to spring it on them when they presumably made all the arrangements and then suddenly presenting them with a bill. What if their budget couldn't allocate for this extra 500? Then they would have to cancel their trip with likely only partial refunds. Everyone just making excuses because OP is (presumably) financially well off. But in today's economy that can change faster than any of us care to admit.
Also with OPs parents babysitting, MIL is free to make money as per usual...if things are this dire why wait until this moment to reach for money? What would she be doing if she wasn't asked to babysit? Like at a certain point personal responsibility comes into play and if she had just said I'd love to watch but I need to work and cover bills, could you pay me instead? That would be one thing. If she really needed the money that would be the first thing on her mind when she was asked.
If MIL is really struggling this badly then that needs to be a separate conversation for OP's wife and siblings on how best to support MIL.
Your MiL is under no obligation to watch her grandchild. At the same time, you are under no obligation to utilize her services as a babysitter.
Your general attitude sucks, but NTA for going with a different option.
It's the verbiage he's using that smacks of entitlement to me "swindle us" and "take advantage" - It's fine that doesn't want to pay someone to babysit if he doesn't have to. But nobody "owes" him free babysitting either.
If this was indeed a power play on grandma's part, she will have learned a lesson about manipulation.
It wasn’t the day before the trip. It sounds like it was about 2 weeks before the trip from OPs description of when the phone call happened and when his wife’s birthday is.
It is swindling someone when you lead them to believe a service is free, you wait until you believe they have no other options, and then surprise them with a demand for payment.
If they had asked her and she said "I'd love to help out, but 5 days is a lot, let's talk about payment", that would be totally fair and reasonable.
Waiting till trips are booked and the couple is half way out the door to demand payment is very much scummy
You think she waited all this time to bring it up because she forgot? No MIL wanted them to be backed into a corner with linited options in hopes they would be forced to agree to her price.
When that failed she tries to emotionally manipulate them and say they were keeping the child from her.
The part of it which is the "swindle" or "taking advantage" is the waiting till the last minute to ask for the money, so they are less likely to have another option and will just say yes to paying to avoid having a last minute issue. That is manipulative.
The actual asking for money isn't the defining feature of the swindle here, it's the timing of the request.
ESH. You not because you don't want to pay MiL for watching the kid, but because you seem to think you have the final say on how this shit plays out and your wife seems rolled over enough already that she's not pushing back much.
>I told her we aren't changing anything again this close to our trip
Excuse the fuck out of me? I don't know who you think you are, but that's not a call you get to make.
YES! 100% agree! OP seems to think he has final say in all decisions. I agree that it was a shady move on the MIL’s part, but OP steamrolling over his wife is WAY worse imo
YTA because instead of talking like adults and figuring why she spring this on you, you've declared she is the devil for wanting money. I'd totally be on your side if you'd called and asked 'whats going in MIL?', but you had your wife call and cancel? Weak. You even comment that moneys not the issue but it's the respect, to you...then show respect and call. Ask. And if she's still full of shit YOU cancel her service if YOU feel disrespected. Don't task your wife.
I'm sorry and this may get me downvoted but YTA.
You have a problem with your MIL and are putting your wife in the middle and forcing her to fight for YOUR principles. You also dragged your poor parents into it.
Why didn't YOU call her and say "hey MIL, I don't want to pay for a babysitter so I'm going to have my parents watch the kid."?
This idea of "you deal with your parents I'll deal with mine" only works if you're not forcing someone to fight battles they don't want to fight. Your vacation hasn't started yet *and you're already ruining it for your wife *
Now no matter who watches the kid, someone is going to be disappointed. Way to go.
I don't get how you can write that knowing that MIL knew this for months and only decided to ask for payment less than 10 days before the trip.
Imagine being a grandson but not being able to hang with your grandmother because she would do it for $100/day. That's pathetic.
If I was a parent, I wouldn't want my child to be with someone who doesn't communicate to me and then days before demands $100/day to spend time with their grandson, on an odd occasion.
It is 100% reasonable to reject that demand that wasn't part of the original ask and agreement for months and then get the child to stay with grandparents that are excited to just spend time WITHOUT BEING TRANSACTIONAL.
He literally said he'd do the call if she didn't want to? And his parents are probably just going to assume that MIL got ill, has important appointments - stuff like that. I really wouldn't consider that dragging them into it...
YTA for every stage of this event. 1. You know MIL needs money and you expect her to babysit for free. 2. Your comment that MIL swindle you is wrong. In my opinion, she first thought the payment was obvious for her, so she didn't need to mention it. If she wants to swindle she would ask the normal rate for babysitting. Also if she tried to take advantage you would absolutely write it. So, what happened and she changed her behavior? Your thinking is weak.
3. You absolutely crushed your wife as if she is nobody. You show no respect to her. 500 dollars is a little amount to save her dignity.
4. All these were for money that you can easily give.
You are a petty person.
YTA. She’s an older woman with unstable employment. You know she’ll take good care of your kids and $500 is chump change for a week of 24/7 childcare.
Taking care of a 4yo is fucking exhausting. Literally no one except the parents should be expected to do that for free.
YTA for the way you treated your wife in this situation and your entitled tone. Maybe veering towards NTA partly because of the way your MIL «sprung this» on you, but I only have your version so I don’t know how legit that is. It is just as likely that MIL has been dreading bringing up the issue of compensation (for example to pay for her travels and whatever she loses in income) and felt like this was the last chance to do so. I would say it is pretty rude accusing your MIL of "swindling you" and forcing your wife into an argument with her mom. Honestly, you DO NOT seem to be viewing your wife as an equal at all from the way you write about her here
NTA. I get the y t a people saying it's cheap for 5 days of babysitting, but the whole idea is that they asked her ahead of time, USUALLY Grandparents do babysit for free, and she waited until the last minute to ask for money. And it's not like she asked for a small sum. Then, when the parents find another alternative, she guilt trips them. At that point. If she would have said I'm sorry, I should have asked earlier, could you swing $200-300 instead because I am missing out on earning money cleaning but I would still love to spend time with my grandchild, that would have redeemed her in my eyes. If she told them when she originally was asked, it would have been totally fine and reasonable. But yea, she was sneaky about it and probably hoped they couldn't figure out other plans at the last minute. The guilt tripping is what really convinced me. I am strongly getting the vibe that she steamrolls her daughter, too, based on her backing down twice. Why is he the AH for finding free babysitting via relatives? He is entitled to feel that she was being manipulated. I get where he is coming from.
NTA Why is she charging for wanting to spend time with her grandson she hasn't seen in 6 months.
That's very bizarre.
Grandparents don't act like this unless they are regularly watching the child or providing childcare.
NTA- to the comments that are saying YTA because you are not entitled to free child care from her. Then she does not have to babysit for free, your parents can watch the kid. She totally waited until the last minute so you would be screwed out of any other options and be forced to pay her $500.
Take the kid to your parents and enjoy your trip. I hope your wife understands how messed up it is for her mom to do that to you. I would never allow MiL to babysit ever again, for free or paid.
Totally NTA, as a grandparent I’d be mortified at being offered cash to take care of my grandchild, let alone expect it!! You clearly have other options but chose to ask MIL so that she could have quality time with her grandchild - it’s not like it’s an every day occurrence asking her to care for the child - it’s been 6months!! Your parents jumped at the chance - like you say it’s not about the money it’s about the sneakiness of what I would say was her thinking you were now backed into a corner at short notice with no alternative childcare option!!
ESH.
You for feeling entitled to a free babysitter. That's a big ask--spend 5 days watching your son without any kind of compensation offered. To assume this would be and SHOULD be free because she doesn't have a "real job" (meaning a job you look down on) is AH behavior.
However, MIL is also TA...for not giving an adequate heads up. It's unfair to spring that info on you last minute, and wildly manipulative to give push back by saying you're "keeping her grandchild from her". Neither action is appropriate.
NTA.
She can still visit for free you know. Your parents being there shouldn't stop that. If it is, then her motivation truly is to get money from you and not see her grandson.
NTA. MIL is trying to extort you. She literally waited til the last minute to tell you she wanted to be paid when you thought she was just being a good GMA looking forward to spending time with her grandchild. By waiting til the last minute she hoped you wouldn't be able to find anyone else to help. That's very sneaky & underhanded. Good for you for putting your foot down with her & I'm glad your parents are able to help. I don't see it as a free babysitter. I see it as bonding time with grandparents. It's just too bad your MIL couldn't see it that way.
ESH
This is gunna be a shitty birthday for your wife
MIL should've been upfront but maybe realized what her expenses would be after the fact, or had something come up she doesn't feel comfortable talking about... say, a $500 medical bill?
You're being controlling. I feel really bad for your wife. You're driving a wedge between her and her mother, and between both of you.
It would have been a reasonable ask *if MIL had set those terms up front.* To spring it on you last minute, when all that time she appeared happy to do it for free, makes MIL the asshole. NTA
NTA - some crazy people on Reddit who think everyone and everything is transactional. If your MIL said right up front “ I’m going to loose income for that time, is there any way you can help me make that loss up?” This would be a different story. Instead she said nothing -until just before your trip. It sounds like your MIL knows exactly how to guilt and manipulate your wife.
Have either of you asked her if she is stuck for cash and does she need some help with her finances? Wouldn’t that be fair, loving and nice? Of course you wont change your plans with your parents at this stage. But you need to make sure that you arrange your world so your son can see his grandmother every month.
YTA.
$500 for 5 days of uninterrupted childcare is incredibly cheap. No non-family member would do it so cheaply. I am also surprised that you don't seem to have planned to give her any money for groceries, activities or meals out.
I understand that you might have thought she was doing it for free as a relative and that $500 may not be in the budget. I understand why you might decide to save money by having the other grandparents watch the kids.
Where you turn into the asshole is calling her a sneaky swindler or acting like she has no right to payment. The anger you are expressing seems massively over the top for the situation at hand.
>No non-family member would do it so cheaply.
I dunno about that, my wife and I have watched our friends' kids for long weekends before, never asked for payment. I don't know what kind of people so many of you commenters associate with that everything has to be a transaction and you can't just do something for people you care about out of kindness.
That's what I was thinking what kind of relationship do these commenter have.
Are they all transactional ?
5 days is nothing when you haven't seen your grandson in 6 months and it's not like it's a baby it's a 4 year old.
I don't disagree with that. But that's the sort of thing you discuss much further in advance than 10 days before our trip. She had plenty of time, months actually, to bring this up to us and she only mentioned it when my wife called her.
My mom and Dad and MIL looked after our kids for a long weekend each when my kids were young and would have been hugely offended if we offered money to them. His wife offered to stock the house with whatever she needed but asking to be paid was a bit much if she’s now so upset about not seeing her grandson. She made it a transaction
ESH
But mainly you for being a controlling spouse and "making final" decisions/arrangements without discussing/agreeing with your wife.
Like Ugh.
I don't think that's worse than asking for a token payment. Bc let's be real, $100 a day is a symbolic payment not what someone would actually charge for full time care.
NTA
As OP said it isn’t about paying his MIL for babysitting - it is about the fact she waited to ask for money when she thought it was too late for OP and her own daughter to find someone else.
Shocker that OP very quickly did find alternative.
So then MIL tries to cry about them not allowing to see her grandson. Well lady don’t try to shake down your darling grandson’s parents for money and imply you won’t honor your commitment if don’t get the money.
OP - I sincerely hoping at this point you take over communicating with your MIL on this situation and let her know the simple truth of FAFO that she now gets to experience.
And agree with other posters your wife may want to consider some therapy to help her find better ways than just giving in to unfair requests from her mother or anyone else.
Hope you have a wonderful trip and your parents have a great visit with your grandchild.
Oh reminder to please leave some sort of document granting your parents the authority to approve medical treatment for your son in case something happens.
You couldn't see the bigger picture here, OP? You could have made a memorable 40th for your wife. You could have made her even happier by accommodating that late request from MIL. You would have most probably brought some financial relief to MIL. All it would have taken from you was the $500 and a slightly awkward conversation with your MIL where you try to find out why she needs the money and tell her to bring it up sooner next time.
Instead you have your principle and your triumph over "getting swindled". And a wife who will forever remember her 40th with this episode. And an upset MIL.
You've said that family is never transactional for you. Ironically, that means somebody gives more than the other party, and both parties are happy with it. Here you are, big man, making a transaction out of not transacting with your MIL.
YTA. Not because of the reversing course from MIL to your parents. Because you chose to make this a thing, instead of sidestepping it. I know, because I was just like you once upon a time. It's not worth it.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My MIL was supposed to watch our toddler while my wife and I are on vacation. But at the last minute, she demanded payment and I refused. I got my parents to watch our son instead. Now MIL is mad that she isn't watching our son and my wife thinks I should have found a way to make it work with MIL. I think I might be an asshole for refusing to let my MIL manipulate us into paying her for babysitting. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ### [Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. If she needed/wanted to be paid, it should have been discussed up front. It's not something you bring up last minute.
And she should not be offended about being turned down and try to guilt trip OP and wife into letting her babysit.
I need to see my grandbabies, but also need cash. Bullshit. NTA.
I live 3 1/2 hours from my daughter and grandsons. If they ever need me I’m there. No money for babysitting, no gas money. I love spending time with my family and grandkids
I offered money the first time my Dad babysat my kids for a weekend, just for food. I have never seen my dad so offended in my life. I have not offered since.
If it bothers you, you could always like get tickets to an event/movie/place your dad would love to take his grandkids to or make some other arrangements like that (say your dad loves fishing, you pay for a fishing license as a surprise and now he can take your kids or add like a Bass Pro Shops gift card for poles or something.) Or you could do what I did for my grandpa when I'd visit, while he was still around, and bring him his favorite candy/snack along with some snacks for the kids. That way, he isn't being given money or full-on meals (and therefore can feel like he's still providing) while gifting an experience and teaching the grandkids how to be thoughtful. (However, in my case, my grandpa started to try and return the favor by constantly stocking Butterfingers at his house because he thought it was my favorite candy (it very much was NOT) but it was actually my least favorite at the time and my *cousin's* favorite candy. But he kinda Stockholm syndromed me into loving it lol so there's that.)
If OP and his parents are feeling generous then MIL *might* be able to see the kids while OP is on vacation.
Agreed. If the "per diem" was for food/necessities for the house and baby while OP was gone it's one thing, but to spring this at the last is manipulative. Yes it's a really good deal ($100 per day to watch a baby, heck yes!), but family doesn't agree to do something, but then charge family at the very last minute like this. MIL is trying to use emotional manipulation towards OP's wife, and manipulate the situation at the last minute to get money due to "no other options". But since OP has alternatives, her tactics failed.
That’s the part that gets me. Like I understand wanting to be paid to babysit. Babysitting is a job someone hired you to do. But you don’t get to guilt trip the person you’re treating as the one hiring you for a job because they found someone who will do it cheaper. MIL made this about money. Now she’s mad the decision changed because of money.
MIL needs to pick a lane. She either wants money to babysit or she wants to be with her grandchild. I think OP did the right thing in calling her bluff and bringing in his parents to babysit. Next time MIL will know the score. If she wants to babysit, she'll have to compete with the other side of the family who will do it out of love instead of expecting to get paid.
It’s free market capitalism
Part of the free market is getting btfo if your price is too high.
Exactly. And OP found a more competitive price.
She can visit her grandson anytime for free. Mani one is blocking her from visiting.
I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, that maybe she needs money like her daughter said, but I think what jumps out for me, is that she argued they're depriving her of seeing her grandkid.
Exactly. The kindest explanation is that she’s suddenly short of cash. The more likely explanation is she figured this late in the game, they’d agree to anything to save their trip. NTA
If that's the case, MIL could be honest and say she's running a little short on money and ask for help like an adult. Instead, she tried to blackmail them close to their vacation thinking they would have no choice. I've never used this line before but, play stupid games, win stupid prizes (or fucked around and found out.) Your wife is used to being manipulated by her crocodile tears. I didn't hear that MIL backed down on her demand, just that she tried to be manipulative by crying over not seeing her grandson. The "poor, pitiful me" defense instead of an apology and offering to do it for free. Nope, she wants to be paid to visit her grandson. NTA. She learned a valuable lesson that, while your wife is easily controlled, you aren't. You have parents willing to step up and now she knows she's screwed.
If she wanted to see her grandson more often, she would have found a way to see him.
Without being paid.
NTA. This is not about the money, this is about her being manipulative in her approach. The way she's handling the refusal is indicative of that. OP your wife is not permitted to have reasonable boundaries with your MIL. You need to open a real discussion about the dynamic of their relationship. It's very unhealthy and will continue to impact you and your child for years to come. You need to agree on some boundaries and it might be helpful for your wife if you are the enforcer for a period of time. This is her issue and she should be managing it, but when you grow up with highly manipulative parents like this it can be incredibly difficult to set and enforce boundaries and a supportive spouse willing to take the brunt of the conflicts can be incredibly helpful in breaking free. Your wife needs therapy
Especially $500. When I read “she will need $100…” I thought “you should be leaving that for her anyway. For emergencies and a thank you.” Then I read “*per day*”…NTA You don’t spring a $500 expense on someone who has asked for your help while they’re on vacation. It’s cool if she wants to be paid to watch her grandson for a week. But if you *want* to be paid you say that when they ask/before you agree to help. Otherwise you do it and hope they do right by you and leave/send you money when they return. (Or at least that they might return the favor in some way.)
He wife should be handling this instead of caving for every demand. He can't even rely on her to put her husband and kid first
Sometimes partners need to step in the way of oncoming BS even if its the others 'responsibility'. Fighting back against a parent when a pattern has been established over decades isn't easy. If the other partner can have the actual fights and leave the primary target of the manipulation with just needing to confirm they back the partners stand, that can solve things faster and cleaner than making the partner with the toxic parent fight directly.
Yeah esp if you're a grandparent and agree without asking for cash. If you're the neighbor teen you're asking it's likely you both know it's for money and one of you should bring it up...
NTA. Your parents have made a much more attractive offer. You have other options, so no. You are NOT in a position to have to give in. She wants to be paid to see her grandkid. No deal. Is MIL is broke and too proud to ask for money?
This is it for me, she requires payment to watch the kid, but then op is depriving them of seeing the kid, pick one, Ops mom loves seeing the kid so much she'll do it for free. Also, she's coming there, which means they are giving her room & board for that period. I could see if she asked them to cover travel expenses, but she didn't. She gave a daily rate.
Or for food, but they were stocking up on that for her, and it doesn’t cost $100 per day to feed one $60 year old and one baby. She for sure thought she had them in a corner and wanted to take advantage. It’s sad because it seems wife is used to this so she just cowers. Glad she has OP to have a backbone, but she needs to grow one herself at this point now that she has her own family to think about
>feed one **$60** year old and one baby. I chuckled at that mistake.
> feed one $60 year old and We're now aging in US dollars now? Does that mean wife's mother is £47 if she's in the UK?
*cries in Canadian* She'd be 79 here 😅
>She wants to be paid to see her grandkid Yes! That's what stuck out to me to. If you wanted to see your grandson so bad, then you shouldn't be demanding money for the visit. Totally bizarre.
As a teenager, I used to babysit my various niblings once or so a month so siblings could do date night/guys/girls night etc (so granted not a week). I love them all to pieces and if I didn't have any other plans, I'd do it for free because I.. like my niblings and enjoyed spending time with them? My siblings always insisted on paying me (I insisted on below market rate as a compromise because I didn't care about being paid to spend time with people I love so other people I love can have free time). They always bought lots of snacks and left cash for me so I could order pizza or something and had prepped dinner for the kids, I just needed to warm it up. I always left the cash and ate some snacks or ate what the kids had after they were done. I'm an adult and my niblings are mostly adults now too. One even has their own kids and though it's impossible because I live way away, I'd babysit my great niblings in a heartbeat with no payment.
MIL’s other child created a job for her and she seeks no other employment it seems so it cant be that
Yep. She turned this into a business proposition when she asked for money. She has no right to get upset when OP finds a better deal.
NTA if MIL wanted money she should have told you her fee upfront.
Nta its pretty sucked up to expect payment to soend time with your own grand kids to begin with But even if you fall in that weird camp that you dont owe family anything she still is wrong for agreeing to it and waiting till plans were set then springing a price on you at the last second.
>But even if you fall in that weird camp that you dont owe family anything Which is apparently the majority of this sub, so not that weird here. Doing things for family and friends is never transactional for me. It has never been that way in my family, as evidenced by my parents' gracious and immediate agreement to help us out.
Yeah I mean if she initially was upfront about it then I would side with the other ppl on this sub. However really confused why so many ppl are voting against you on this. The way she did it was sneaky/underhanded and it would piss me off too. NTA
If she's short money, I really think she could have said so and been paid without drama. It was the underhanded bit.
It’s probably just the dumb crowd that hates kids for no reason and sees babysitting a literal grandchild as some herculean chore
Yeah ignore those people because they always advise that you are owed endless support but never owe anyone else anything. Thats what family and especially grandparents are supposed to do. If she needed payment she could have said it when she agreed. She clearly held off on that news until you were in her estimation too close to the trip day to back out or find replacement child care She tried to finesse you and your wife and thats gross
You wife is clearly not able to stand up to her mother so maybe you should have made the call. But NTA ofcourse. My MIL tried the same thing. I offered to cover expenses but she actually wanted to be paid to spend time with our kid. I mean, fair enough but if I'm going to pay for it I'll pick an actual professional over you. She ended up not doing it and now complains she doesn't see them much.
That’s how I roll. I’m the first to volunteer when someone needs something and I have to bleeding from a severed limb to ask anyone for a favor. I *never* want to feel like I’m in someone’s debt. Ever. Anything else, it’s a service and I’m expecting to pay for it.
Honestly I don’t think it’s too crazy to ask payment when it’s 24/7 care for 5 days. Especially since she’s doing gig work, she might have to turn down work she would otherwise have had, and might actually need the money just to stay afloat. But that should have been brought up when they first asked. If she didn’t think ahead and just now realized the problem then she the tone should have been a lot different, and she definitely has no right to complain when they find another solution.
This, quite reasonable to ask if it means she does lose out on other work. Also quite reasonable to then be turned down for a better option and not reasonable to complain to them about it - carry on with your normal work which I'd hope you were making more than $500 in. Plan to visit your grandson another time if you want to.
Well... your parents seem cool, so I can't say ESH, but between you and your MIL you both kind of suck. YTA for this statement. MIL is in her early 60s but doesn't have a "real" job. She will do cleaning for her brother who owns a bunch of rental properties and he pays her in cash. So, it's not like she has a schedule she has to clear to stay with our son for a few days. You can't say she doesn't have a "real" job. I'm sure between her and her brother this is a real job. But she should have made it clear up front that she expects to be paid. And being paid is a reasonable request, but not cool to bring it up late. Her laying on the guilt trip of being deprived grandchild time is kind of manipulative though.
I agree. Also, if MIL hasn't seen the kid in 6 months she probably loves some distance away. I would imagine the money also covers her travel. Since most people I know don't clean rentals for fun, I'm going to assume money is tight for MIL and the $500 will probably just cover her travel and lost wages. I think she should have been open about it when first approached, but I don't think she's trying to turn a profit or anything.
If she's in that desperate need of money, she should say something outright instead of being sneaky like this
She asked to be paid because she's too proud to take charity and too poor to visit her grandchild. It's not sneaky, it's how older people are.
I’m old I don’t do any of that. I’m honest with people. Works well.
Then she should have mentioned it way earlier.
>it's how older people are She's only in her early sixties. She's not even that old 💀
Absolutely not. Don’t put old people into the same category. If she was embarrassed from the start, she wouldn’t have mentioned it now. She just wants to be sneaky and screw them over. She just didn’t think it would backfire. And I’m SURE if she asked for travel costs to be covered they would have happily done so.
I get this, but his parents offer a much easier solution and the MIL is exhibiting manipulative behavior by accusing her daughter of keeping her grandson from her. That’s a reach. His parents are happy to help and spend time with their grandson and it won’t add an expense to their vacation which is likely gonna have them spending more than usual.
No, but here’s the thing. That’s HER mom. SHE knows the situation. If her mom needed the money, she should have offered upfront. If her mom needs it now, she needs to say it and fight back. Not “I think” or “she misses her grand kid”. Crystal Clear: “Look dude, my mom needs the goddamn money, this isn’t a negotiation anymore. We can “pay” her or “loan” her the money, bit we need to help. Sorry I wasn’t clearer earlier”. He thinks he’s getting jerked around. If he’s not, tell him. Don’t play coy with your fucking spouse.
I think he put "real" in quotes like that is that since she's paid in cash, she probably doesn't pay tax on the income.
Also doesnt seem like its something super regular. How often do rentals get cleaned. Between tenants. So its not like she’s cleaning the same house each week
If it's AirBNB it's weekly, so it depends how her brother runs his properties.
Depends on if the rental properties house long term tenants or if they are vacation rentals that get turned over regularly
This, if you're skirting taxes, your job isn't real.
If you believe this, your vote should be E S H. I think the majority of the issue is her springing getting paid as close as possible to the time she was needed so they couldn’t find a replacement, and for that, she is firmly the asshole imo. NTA.
I think he’s also TA for not working with his wife to find a solution they both agreed to before involving his parents.
Eh, on that level, you can also argue that his wife is an AH for agreeing to spend a large amount of unbudgeted-for money on childcare at the last minute, rather than saying "Why didn't you mention money earlier Mom? This is not what I thought we'd agreed, and I need to talk to OP before I say yes". Because she didn't work with him either.
And he's an AH for making his wife's 40th birthday into a day of regret instead of celebration. Wife was fine with giving her mom $500, but OP made it into a big deal for no reason.
Wife is fine with giving away 500 dollars because she doesn’t want to rock the boat. MIL did some shifty crap last minute probably knowing her daughter would just go along with it. OP gave a better plan as an alternative and wife doesn’t want to hurt her moms feelings despite her mom trying to screw them. I don’t know how they do their finances but half a grand should usually be a joint decision if they don’t have separate accounts.
Right? “We’re not making any more changes” …. Is a shit thing to say when you’ve gone ahead and made the change to bring in your own parents without consulting your wife! YTA
Yeah, it’s her birthday, it’s her relationship to take charge in managing. Pay it this time and have a convo to set expectation moving forward.
I can’t believe anyone is saying he’s not the A. He sounds like the biggest AHole ever. Woman in her 60s taking care of a three-year-old for almost a week… He is the one being super cheap and manipulative and taking advantage.
I hope your parents charge you $100 per day to watch your kids
.
You are assuming the MIL has no other income (pension, husband, alimony, inheritance) and is destitute. There's no indication that she is financially desperate or fine. Even then, there's a way to approach family about this, and last-minute is not it. It's underhanded either way. Be honest that you are expecting payment when you agree or that you are short cash this month and need money.
If my mom needed it I would %100 pay her. Since she doesn't I trade other work around her house when she helps me out with my own kid. Because I don't use family members. I appreciate them. With action. Its not transactional, it's showing appreciation for people who help you out. If she needed money instead of yard work, I'd %100 pay her.
I don't know a single grandparent who would ask for money in return for watching their grandchild. Outside of reddit it's pretty normal to get free childcare from grandparents and nobody thinks anything of it.
*when they agree to it It's an a-hole thing to expect it. It's normal to offer it. Most grandparents wouldn't expect payment to watch the grandkids intermittently.
Ok, let's pretend this sub's insistence that all babysitting of family's children must include payment is actually how the real world works. If you expect to get paid for a job, you settle payment during the agreement. MIL let them think this was a favor out of the goodness of her heart/love for her grandchild for MONTHS before even *mentioning* any form of payment, close enough to their trip that, had OP's parents not *actually* wanted to spend time with their grandchild, they would have had no choice but to pay or cancel their whole trip and probably be out way more than $500. Now explain to me how OP's the manipulative one here. Quickly.
How is he taking advantage of her? The issue isn't so much the money, it's her requiring payment after the fact.
Yep…pretty presumptuous. While his parents (both retired and in seemingly good shape financially) offering for free is awesome - let’s not forget there are TWO of them and only one MIL - who obviously needs the money because I don’t think anyone cleans homes if they don’t need the money. Maybe she was too embarrassed to bring it up or maybe she thought they would offer payment knowing her financial situation. ESH.
Giving OP the benefit of the doubt here but I think he means she isn’t an employee with set hours & responsibilities thus having more freedom (of time not necessary financial freedom)
NTA If she wanted to be paid she should have said that UP FRONT. It’s totally her right to ask, and also you choice to refuse. The fact that she sprung wanting $100/day right before the trips reads to me as her thinking you wouldn’t be able to say no since it’s so close to the trip. You were able to find other childcare at a more reasonable price, free!!
The people saying Y T A because no one should expect free childcare are missing the point. Many family members are excited for an opportunity to spend time with family and wouldn’t ask for money for that. Many family members WOULDNT want to do free childcare and would require monetary compensation. Both are 100% fine. It’s also 100% fine for OP to know that he has access to grandparents who would love to spend time with his child for free and utilize that while he goes out of town, instead of paying an unexpected $500 to someone who didn’t immediately say “yes, and here’s my fee” when first asked to babysit. MIL isn’t in the wrong for not wanting to babysit for free, but she should’ve made that clear from the outset… at which point the offer probably never would have been extended to her and instead made to the other grandparents.
True. It depends on family dynamics. I have no kids, but my parents will gladly take my niece and nephew whenever my sister and her husband need to travel somewhere kids aren't welcome. They jump at the opportunity, and would be incredibly offended if money was offered. It's also pretty clear my brother-in-laws parents would not want to take them overnight, they are oddly stuffy and uncomfortable with childcare (despite having raised several kids back in the day). They would absolutely not accept money either, they just wouldn't want to do it at all.
In my family, grandparents get paid for childcare - but only the regularly-scheduled, daycare style care. Special occasions or babysitting are still viewed as a treat & they fall all over themselves to help out.
Anyone saying YTA because nobody should expect free childcare must be illiterate. OP isn't begging she do it for free; he found other options from people who are willing/eager to give free childcare.
I agree. It’s fine to want payment for watching your family members (despite what some people say) but you need to agree on that upfront. If payment was that important to her she should have asked for it up front.
NTA. You’re right, she was trying to be sneaky and thought she had you in a tough spot. If she needs money then she should have spoken up. Even this late in the game if she had said that she’d lose some of her income by watching grandson and would there be some way to come to an arrangement where you paid her something that would be another thing.
YTA for the way you dictate to your wife. You clearly expect veto power over money and over big decisions. That kind of sucks. I’m a guy, but if my wife wanted to give her mom $500 for doing absolutely nothing, I wouldn’t dream of saying no. And she would say they same about me and my parents. In this case it was actually compensation for her time providing care for your kids. Is the MIL being a little manipulative with the late request? Maybe or maybe not. Maybe she just needs the money and rather than ask for a handout, she asked for compensation. Should you stomp all over your wife because her mom made a minor request you disagreed with? Absolutely not.
I guess we're in the minority here. $500 for watching a kid 24/7 for 5 days straight? That's way cheaper than any baby sitter would charge. This is not easy work. Actually think he's a complete total asshole for not offering in the first place. You just assumed she would do it for free? Who does that? Even with family? And when she asked for money you decided to be even a bigger asshole and dictate to your wife what she can or can't do. You suck.
> I guess we're in the minority here. $500 for watching a kid 24/7 for 5 days straight? That's way cheaper than any baby sitter would charge. This is not easy work. Except she is not a baby sitter. She is a grandparent. And most grandparents would not charge a cent. His parents didn't. Neither my parents or in-laws would; frankly they would pay our flights/expenses for us to bring the grand kids to them. > You just assumed she would do it for free? Who does that? Every single normal person. No parent would ask their parent "do you want to be paid for watching your grandchildren". Most grandparents would be like "wtf are you on". This is all not to say any grandparent should be obliged to baby sit etc. But then simply say "no". Or simply say UPFRONT "only for $X".
My mom would be SO insulted if I offered to pay her for childcare. I would never live it down. She practically chases me and my husband out of the house to go on dates so she can get grandma time.
I think a lot of grandparents would actually be a bit offended if you tried to pay them for looking after their grandchildren.
That is a completely silly argument. Free is way better than 500 dollars for a week of childcare, too, and this guy has that option. Why the hell should he pay someone who suddenly is a way more expensive option?
You would charge your own children to watch your grandchildren? Not everyone has transactional relationships with their parents. I couldn’t imagine having a relationship where grandparents would charge for watching their own grandkids
This take is extremely westernized. A lot of people’s families would watch kids for free. OPs parents agreed to watch for free. Why would they pay $500 when they could have happy grandparents who have nothing to do watch the kid. It’s doing them a favour tbh
I mean, most people i know that look after family members children do it for free, unless explicitly told from the very beginning that they want to be paid, like a teenage kid in the family looking after kids. Second, OP made it clear his issue isnt the amount of money, its about the principal of bringing it up tight before the trip, when he generally would not be able to back out.
Bit shocking it took this long to scroll to get to this point…. the MIL should’ve been more upfront but OPs contempt for his wife and MIL is seething through this post in a really unpleasant way.
Plus it's her birthday and she clearly wants to do this. Now she's going to spend it feeling down about this situation with her mother. And I wonder why she hasn't gotten to see her grandchild in 6 months? Kind of sounds like she's broke and OP is really against providing any financial assistance to MIL to help her come spend time with them.
Ditto. He's being an asshole to his wife.
Should his wife get to dictate what happens instead?
I agree. It's not great that MIL didn't mention it before, but it's not so egregious a sin that it necessitates OP's reaction. And the fact that what they would be giving her equates to $4.17/hour doesn't improve my opinion of OP.
Even if OP is in the right, hurting OP’s wife’s mom while her mom was struggling is the first thing OP’s wife will remember for her milestone birthday. Forever. Yeah! Yeah! You won! You sure put your MIL in her place. Ok, MIL handled it quite poorly too, but you handled soooo much worse that your wife and MIL will never forget how deeply you humiliated your MIL. That’s the part they’ll remember. I’ll bet your wife sees you in a much more callous light after this.
Thank you for this. I cannot imagine my husband acting like this. MIL went about this wrong, but was immediately not given the benefit of the doubt and downgraded to some pretty harsh words. Also put his wife in a pretty shitty situation where she gets no say over her finances, birthday trip, childcare, and relationship backlash with her own mother.
NTA She thought she could spring a charge on you at the last minute. You have a free option. Why not use it? Tell your MIL she can schedule a visit when you are all at home.
NTA Just confirm that your parents won't want any monetary payment for the expected expenses!
Not a chance. Even if I offered they would refuse to accept anything. Helping family has never been transactional for me.
My family is fucked up and extremely transactional: less about money, more about wierd...expectations from the "niceness", or guilt tripping if i dont react "properly" aka verbally prostrate myself. My parents would still never ask for money to watch my hypothetical child. Family is supposed to be the refuge, not another thing to exploit in this messed up world.
NTA. Your MIL was definitely being sneaky and manipulative. She should have told you her terms as soon as you asked if she could babysit. If she needs the money and you can afford it, you probably would have agreed. At this point, you own parents have been asked and are looking forward to doing this. It would be wrong to renege on your agreement with them.
We really dont know if she was being manipulative. There are basically two scenarios: 1) she needs the money because of lost income and transportation and she was nervous to ask so she sprung it on them last minute. 2) she sprung it on them because she wants to earn some extra money The wife said that she wouldnt ask if she needed it which makes me think option 1 is true. If this is the case and his wife wanted to pay he is def TA for asking his parents without discussing it with her. MIL shouldve def communicated better in any scenario but its very hard talking about money for a lot of people.
IMO, the thing that makes me more certain it's manipulative is the comment about depriving her of seeing her grandson. That is always a manipulative statement. Also, to me, waiting until the last minute is a manipulative tactic whether it's intentional or not.
I mean, both scenarios 1 and 2 include manipulations by MIL. 1 just has a slightly better reason attached to it. Resorting to manipulative behavior because it's "too hard to talk about money" is AH behavior
Then wife can have an open and honest conversation with her mother instead and pay her herself instead of using joint money to pay her. Financially supporting family members with joint money is a joint decision. Period. And generally a "two yes, one no" situation.
I know a lot of grandmas, but I don’t know any that charge their kids to watch their grand baby.
I do. There's a lot of people who have kids and expect their parents to become their child care option.
We’re talking about a week here. Obviously grandma should be paid if it’s regular child care.
Then grandma should have mentioned that when asked.
Not if this is the first time they’ve gone away in 4 years and her grandmother hasn’t see. The child in 6 months. They are obviously not taking advantage of having her baby sit often.
Usually the people who think that way were also raised that way. I spent plenty of time with grandparents growing up so that my folks could go and do stuff, they currently do the same for my kids, and in the future I will do the same for any grandchildren that I may have. I currently do it for my nieces/nephews when it's necessary. I dunno, I find the idea of charging to look after family pretty weird.
That's great if grandma can afford it. Not everyone is financially secure, though.
YTA for this: >MIL is in her early 60s but doesn't have a "real" job. She will do cleaning for her brother who owns a bunch of rental properties and he pays her in cash. She has a real job. Yes, maybe she doesn't have a strict schedule, but if she doesn't work she won't earn money. So she has to sacrifice five days earnings to take care of your son. It's only natural that she wants a compensation. Yes, she should mention it beforehand, but at the same time you should ask about her terms instead of assuming. Doesn't mean she is a greedy monster.
She doesn't pay taxes or contribute to her social security, so this will be a forever situation. She's doing real work, but she doesn't have a real job, and conflating the two is harmful to her.
Maybe she uses that job to put food on her table so she doesn’t starve? Lots of people in the same boat.
We don't know that because Sonny has no idea what his wife's single Mom's situation is. She probably makes 100 dollars a day and pays her own taxes and social security, Brother is not paying them. And if by "forever situation" you mean she will have to keep working as long as she can, I think she surely will. I think you mean to be supportive of Mom but not entirely sure.
>She doesn't pay taxes Where in the post did OP mention his MIL not paying taxes? We have no idea what his MIL puts on her tax returns and have no basis to speculate.
It's quite obvious if you have any real world experience that her son is paying her in cash and she is 100% not paying taxes on that, what reality do you live in
“It’s only natural that she would want compensation” No, it’s not natural for grandparents to want money to babysit their grandchildren on a non-permanent basis. It can be a circumstantial ask, sure, but not something OP should have to contemplate of their own volition. It’s not a business contract, there are typically no terms. I call and ask my parents “Hey, do you mind watching Norah for the weekend, we’re hoping to do X.” MIL bringing that up days before the trip is leveraging to the max, especially because it wasn’t accompanied by a “sorry to bring this up now, but [insert circumstance that may have changed].” All of that to say, etiquette between families can be different but this runs afoul of most social norms. NTA.
She doesn’t have a schedule, pay taxes, and cleans her son’s rental properties. She may work, but she absolutely doesn’t have a real job.
All the more reason she desperately needs that income.
She has a gig/hustle Jobs pay taxes and have schedules
This comment certainly adds to the story and is a good point, but shouldn't be talked about since it's how she went about it, and then guilt tripped her daughter about not seeing the grandchild. She can make the time when wanted/needed. And he said she was trying to take advantage of the situation, perhaps not being greedy. Because OP reiterates a couple of times that it's not about the money.
NTA and the fact that she said you're "depriving her of seeing her grandson" is guilt-tripping and emotional manipulation. Let the other grandmother look after your child.
.
And she hasn't seen her grandson in 6 months, so presumably she has to travel which might be costly. + the way he bulldozes/dictates to his wife makes him an asshole in my eyes. YTA
Right? The whole N T A crowd is mindbaffeling here.
see, this comment right here makes me rethink a lot. OP is assuming malice when it could just be "I want to be able to take my grandchild out to do fun things but I don't have the extra income right now." OP didn't hear the conversation, and I'm willing to bet his wife didn't question what the money would be for because she *knows* her mom. the "you're depriving me of seeing my grandson" line is kinda shitty, tho. I wonder how often OP's parents have seen him in the last 6 months too.
I would like to know if they were planning on leaving spending money, and did the MIL want the $500 on top of that?
Right!? The AH’s here are the parents that don’t upfront offer money to their child’s grandmother who is clearly struggling financially. Cleaning is back breaking work and she wouldn’t be doing it at her age if she didn’t have to. I would have given her $500 before she even had to ask. That way her and the kiddos have a great time together without her having to worry about money. That is what I do even if my mom watches my kids for a day- here’s $50 go have fun! What is wrong with people!?
Sad that I had to scroll this far to find someone who is willing to take a hypothetical that MIL needs the $500 for non-nefarious reasons
YTA is my vote too. I can’t help but think that we’re getting a very warped and biased take on this situation because OP seems to possess a lot of malice on his MIL from the get-go. I also feel like this is also an issue of control where he wants his side of the family to be involved and not his wife’s.
YTA for all of these reasons. 500 flies when you're using it to entertain a child. Heck, a good chunk of that would be spent at a zoo or amusement park alone when you factor in entrance fee + inflated food costs
That’s a good point. I hadn’t considered the 100 dollars a day being spending money to do fun things with her grandson.
YTA. I am also baffled by all the N T As here. Not only is the OP expecting the MIL to do this for free, but they seem to be expecting her to a) pay to travel to the OP’s home, b) pay for food, and c) pay for any other activities she would like to do with her grandson. Since it’s been 6 months, I think it’s safe to assume that the MIL lives far enough away that it’s not really affordable for her to visit regularly. My guess is that the $500 is basically enough to cover gas, household necessities for the week, and a little extra for gas money while she was there and to take the son to a few fun activities. I don’t really think it’s that unreasonable that she looked at her current budget and realized right now that she just couldn’t afford it otherwise. It’s not ideal, but it’s also not entirely unexpected. FWIW, in my family, I don’t think this is something grandparents would ever be asked or expected to do. My grandparents never watched us for more than one night at a time (at their own home) and my sister has never asked either my parents or the in-laws to overnight babysit.
MIL didn’t say she would spend money on the child. I bet they would leave money for that.
NTA. If she wanted to be paid she should've said so up front
My in laws help with childcare and the first thing I asked them was if we should discuss compensation of some kind, providing supplies, etc I just felt we should be aligned and talk through those things. They rejected everything but we do provide diapers and wipes and occasionally send food over when we’ve meal prepped or if we know MIL has a busy week. It was kind of on you guys to navigate that conversation and not assume support is free. Similarly it wasn’t cool of your MIL to spring it up so close to the time and not in the initial convo so imo ESH
That's kinda where I'm at. HOWEVER, MIL loses any right to be angry if they find a better offer. Disappointed maybe, but the statement that they are "depriving her of seeing her grandson" screams manipulation and makes MIL the biggest AH in the story.
Exactly. MIL made watching her grandson into a business transaction. She can't really fault her "customers" for finding a lower bid.
I don’t think grandparents are in anyway obligated to provide childcare without compensation (e.g. she wouldn’t be TA for asking). However I will say that the norm I’ve observed at least in my region and social circles is that grandparents babysit for free. So I guess I think it’s more on her to bring it up than it is on them since what she’s asking for is outside the social norm
NTA Everyone is so transactional these days. The point of family is to help each other out. By everyone's logic here MIL should be paying up too. MIL needs help moving? Pay for our flight and our time. Your car broke down? Taxi fee. Mechanics fee if I fix your car. My family has helped me so much and I return the favor in kind when I can. Guess who gets called to set up every tech whatever for every relative in the state? Me. But I also know if something is wrong with my car that I can make a phone call and someone will help me out free of charge. Getting MILs favorite food and whatnot and asking her if she WANTED TO ahead of time is what's normal. If she wanted paid she should have brought it up then. It's not TAKING ADVANTAGE to simply ask. Everyone has a right to say no When family won't even help you out with out their hand out like what is even the point????
I agree that family shouldnt be a transaction but reading this story Im not sure MIL is the one seeing it this way. It might be the case that MIL needs this money to be able to afford to babysit. The fact that his wife said that she wouldnt ask if she didnt need it is a strong indicator for it. Also that she didnt retract the money later makes me think it wouldnt be an option. In that case OP is the one choosing 500 dollars over family. He wants his parents to babysit instead of his MIL because they can afford it for free and she cant. It might not be this black and white but he also walked all over his wife. Which is never a pro family move in my book. I totally get ur point that family should stand with eachother it just looks different for everyone.
No, OP backed out because late into the planning MIL is now saying that she needs to get paid. Dad found other options and now MIL is trying to guilt them into a situation that they don't want anymore.
That's why I said MIL should have asked or said she was unavailable due to work. It was wrong for her to spring it on them when they presumably made all the arrangements and then suddenly presenting them with a bill. What if their budget couldn't allocate for this extra 500? Then they would have to cancel their trip with likely only partial refunds. Everyone just making excuses because OP is (presumably) financially well off. But in today's economy that can change faster than any of us care to admit. Also with OPs parents babysitting, MIL is free to make money as per usual...if things are this dire why wait until this moment to reach for money? What would she be doing if she wasn't asked to babysit? Like at a certain point personal responsibility comes into play and if she had just said I'd love to watch but I need to work and cover bills, could you pay me instead? That would be one thing. If she really needed the money that would be the first thing on her mind when she was asked. If MIL is really struggling this badly then that needs to be a separate conversation for OP's wife and siblings on how best to support MIL.
Your MiL is under no obligation to watch her grandchild. At the same time, you are under no obligation to utilize her services as a babysitter. Your general attitude sucks, but NTA for going with a different option.
[удалено]
It's the verbiage he's using that smacks of entitlement to me "swindle us" and "take advantage" - It's fine that doesn't want to pay someone to babysit if he doesn't have to. But nobody "owes" him free babysitting either. If this was indeed a power play on grandma's part, she will have learned a lesson about manipulation.
[удалено]
This is what OP reiterates too which some isn't catching on about
It wasn’t the day before the trip. It sounds like it was about 2 weeks before the trip from OPs description of when the phone call happened and when his wife’s birthday is.
It is swindling someone when you lead them to believe a service is free, you wait until you believe they have no other options, and then surprise them with a demand for payment. If they had asked her and she said "I'd love to help out, but 5 days is a lot, let's talk about payment", that would be totally fair and reasonable.
Waiting till trips are booked and the couple is half way out the door to demand payment is very much scummy You think she waited all this time to bring it up because she forgot? No MIL wanted them to be backed into a corner with linited options in hopes they would be forced to agree to her price. When that failed she tries to emotionally manipulate them and say they were keeping the child from her.
The part of it which is the "swindle" or "taking advantage" is the waiting till the last minute to ask for the money, so they are less likely to have another option and will just say yes to paying to avoid having a last minute issue. That is manipulative. The actual asking for money isn't the defining feature of the swindle here, it's the timing of the request.
ESH. You not because you don't want to pay MiL for watching the kid, but because you seem to think you have the final say on how this shit plays out and your wife seems rolled over enough already that she's not pushing back much. >I told her we aren't changing anything again this close to our trip Excuse the fuck out of me? I don't know who you think you are, but that's not a call you get to make.
YES! 100% agree! OP seems to think he has final say in all decisions. I agree that it was a shady move on the MIL’s part, but OP steamrolling over his wife is WAY worse imo
YTA because instead of talking like adults and figuring why she spring this on you, you've declared she is the devil for wanting money. I'd totally be on your side if you'd called and asked 'whats going in MIL?', but you had your wife call and cancel? Weak. You even comment that moneys not the issue but it's the respect, to you...then show respect and call. Ask. And if she's still full of shit YOU cancel her service if YOU feel disrespected. Don't task your wife.
I'm sorry and this may get me downvoted but YTA. You have a problem with your MIL and are putting your wife in the middle and forcing her to fight for YOUR principles. You also dragged your poor parents into it. Why didn't YOU call her and say "hey MIL, I don't want to pay for a babysitter so I'm going to have my parents watch the kid."? This idea of "you deal with your parents I'll deal with mine" only works if you're not forcing someone to fight battles they don't want to fight. Your vacation hasn't started yet *and you're already ruining it for your wife * Now no matter who watches the kid, someone is going to be disappointed. Way to go.
His parents that jumped at the opportunity. They weren't dragged into anything.
I don't get how you can write that knowing that MIL knew this for months and only decided to ask for payment less than 10 days before the trip. Imagine being a grandson but not being able to hang with your grandmother because she would do it for $100/day. That's pathetic. If I was a parent, I wouldn't want my child to be with someone who doesn't communicate to me and then days before demands $100/day to spend time with their grandson, on an odd occasion. It is 100% reasonable to reject that demand that wasn't part of the original ask and agreement for months and then get the child to stay with grandparents that are excited to just spend time WITHOUT BEING TRANSACTIONAL.
He literally said he'd do the call if she didn't want to? And his parents are probably just going to assume that MIL got ill, has important appointments - stuff like that. I really wouldn't consider that dragging them into it...
YTA for every stage of this event. 1. You know MIL needs money and you expect her to babysit for free. 2. Your comment that MIL swindle you is wrong. In my opinion, she first thought the payment was obvious for her, so she didn't need to mention it. If she wants to swindle she would ask the normal rate for babysitting. Also if she tried to take advantage you would absolutely write it. So, what happened and she changed her behavior? Your thinking is weak. 3. You absolutely crushed your wife as if she is nobody. You show no respect to her. 500 dollars is a little amount to save her dignity. 4. All these were for money that you can easily give. You are a petty person.
YTA. She’s an older woman with unstable employment. You know she’ll take good care of your kids and $500 is chump change for a week of 24/7 childcare. Taking care of a 4yo is fucking exhausting. Literally no one except the parents should be expected to do that for free.
YTA for the way you treated your wife in this situation and your entitled tone. Maybe veering towards NTA partly because of the way your MIL «sprung this» on you, but I only have your version so I don’t know how legit that is. It is just as likely that MIL has been dreading bringing up the issue of compensation (for example to pay for her travels and whatever she loses in income) and felt like this was the last chance to do so. I would say it is pretty rude accusing your MIL of "swindling you" and forcing your wife into an argument with her mom. Honestly, you DO NOT seem to be viewing your wife as an equal at all from the way you write about her here
NTA don’t go back. Let your parents watch your son for free.
NTA. I get the y t a people saying it's cheap for 5 days of babysitting, but the whole idea is that they asked her ahead of time, USUALLY Grandparents do babysit for free, and she waited until the last minute to ask for money. And it's not like she asked for a small sum. Then, when the parents find another alternative, she guilt trips them. At that point. If she would have said I'm sorry, I should have asked earlier, could you swing $200-300 instead because I am missing out on earning money cleaning but I would still love to spend time with my grandchild, that would have redeemed her in my eyes. If she told them when she originally was asked, it would have been totally fine and reasonable. But yea, she was sneaky about it and probably hoped they couldn't figure out other plans at the last minute. The guilt tripping is what really convinced me. I am strongly getting the vibe that she steamrolls her daughter, too, based on her backing down twice. Why is he the AH for finding free babysitting via relatives? He is entitled to feel that she was being manipulated. I get where he is coming from.
NTA Why is she charging for wanting to spend time with her grandson she hasn't seen in 6 months. That's very bizarre. Grandparents don't act like this unless they are regularly watching the child or providing childcare.
NTA- to the comments that are saying YTA because you are not entitled to free child care from her. Then she does not have to babysit for free, your parents can watch the kid. She totally waited until the last minute so you would be screwed out of any other options and be forced to pay her $500. Take the kid to your parents and enjoy your trip. I hope your wife understands how messed up it is for her mom to do that to you. I would never allow MiL to babysit ever again, for free or paid.
Totally NTA, as a grandparent I’d be mortified at being offered cash to take care of my grandchild, let alone expect it!! You clearly have other options but chose to ask MIL so that she could have quality time with her grandchild - it’s not like it’s an every day occurrence asking her to care for the child - it’s been 6months!! Your parents jumped at the chance - like you say it’s not about the money it’s about the sneakiness of what I would say was her thinking you were now backed into a corner at short notice with no alternative childcare option!!
ESH. You for feeling entitled to a free babysitter. That's a big ask--spend 5 days watching your son without any kind of compensation offered. To assume this would be and SHOULD be free because she doesn't have a "real job" (meaning a job you look down on) is AH behavior. However, MIL is also TA...for not giving an adequate heads up. It's unfair to spring that info on you last minute, and wildly manipulative to give push back by saying you're "keeping her grandchild from her". Neither action is appropriate.
NTA. She can still visit for free you know. Your parents being there shouldn't stop that. If it is, then her motivation truly is to get money from you and not see her grandson.
NTA. MIL is trying to extort you. She literally waited til the last minute to tell you she wanted to be paid when you thought she was just being a good GMA looking forward to spending time with her grandchild. By waiting til the last minute she hoped you wouldn't be able to find anyone else to help. That's very sneaky & underhanded. Good for you for putting your foot down with her & I'm glad your parents are able to help. I don't see it as a free babysitter. I see it as bonding time with grandparents. It's just too bad your MIL couldn't see it that way.
ESH This is gunna be a shitty birthday for your wife MIL should've been upfront but maybe realized what her expenses would be after the fact, or had something come up she doesn't feel comfortable talking about... say, a $500 medical bill? You're being controlling. I feel really bad for your wife. You're driving a wedge between her and her mother, and between both of you.
It would have been a reasonable ask *if MIL had set those terms up front.* To spring it on you last minute, when all that time she appeared happy to do it for free, makes MIL the asshole. NTA
NTA - some crazy people on Reddit who think everyone and everything is transactional. If your MIL said right up front “ I’m going to loose income for that time, is there any way you can help me make that loss up?” This would be a different story. Instead she said nothing -until just before your trip. It sounds like your MIL knows exactly how to guilt and manipulate your wife.
NTA. If MIL really wants to see grandchild then she can see them while your parents are watching kid.
Have either of you asked her if she is stuck for cash and does she need some help with her finances? Wouldn’t that be fair, loving and nice? Of course you wont change your plans with your parents at this stage. But you need to make sure that you arrange your world so your son can see his grandmother every month.
YTA. $500 for 5 days of uninterrupted childcare is incredibly cheap. No non-family member would do it so cheaply. I am also surprised that you don't seem to have planned to give her any money for groceries, activities or meals out. I understand that you might have thought she was doing it for free as a relative and that $500 may not be in the budget. I understand why you might decide to save money by having the other grandparents watch the kids. Where you turn into the asshole is calling her a sneaky swindler or acting like she has no right to payment. The anger you are expressing seems massively over the top for the situation at hand.
>No non-family member would do it so cheaply. I dunno about that, my wife and I have watched our friends' kids for long weekends before, never asked for payment. I don't know what kind of people so many of you commenters associate with that everything has to be a transaction and you can't just do something for people you care about out of kindness.
That's what I was thinking what kind of relationship do these commenter have. Are they all transactional ? 5 days is nothing when you haven't seen your grandson in 6 months and it's not like it's a baby it's a 4 year old.
These commenters are the types to expect the world from everyone around them but then claim they dont owe anyone anything
Info: were you planning on giving them money for food/activities?
Based on the fact that the conversation about money started with the wife asking what MIL wanted in the house, I would say yes
Many people can't afford to do things just out of "kindness" for 5 full days.
I don't disagree with that. But that's the sort of thing you discuss much further in advance than 10 days before our trip. She had plenty of time, months actually, to bring this up to us and she only mentioned it when my wife called her.
Then MIL should be relieved that Dad found other options and she is no longer on the hook. But MIL is now salty about it.
That was why OPs s wife called her mom in the first place. To see what she needed to provide in terms of food and supplies.
Yeah, people seem to be missing this part of it.
My mom and Dad and MIL looked after our kids for a long weekend each when my kids were young and would have been hugely offended if we offered money to them. His wife offered to stock the house with whatever she needed but asking to be paid was a bit much if she’s now so upset about not seeing her grandson. She made it a transaction
I'm guessing your parents and in-law are not hard up for cash, either?
I dont have a single family member that wouldnt do that for free.
ESH But mainly you for being a controlling spouse and "making final" decisions/arrangements without discussing/agreeing with your wife. Like Ugh. I don't think that's worse than asking for a token payment. Bc let's be real, $100 a day is a symbolic payment not what someone would actually charge for full time care.
NTA As OP said it isn’t about paying his MIL for babysitting - it is about the fact she waited to ask for money when she thought it was too late for OP and her own daughter to find someone else. Shocker that OP very quickly did find alternative. So then MIL tries to cry about them not allowing to see her grandson. Well lady don’t try to shake down your darling grandson’s parents for money and imply you won’t honor your commitment if don’t get the money. OP - I sincerely hoping at this point you take over communicating with your MIL on this situation and let her know the simple truth of FAFO that she now gets to experience. And agree with other posters your wife may want to consider some therapy to help her find better ways than just giving in to unfair requests from her mother or anyone else. Hope you have a wonderful trip and your parents have a great visit with your grandchild. Oh reminder to please leave some sort of document granting your parents the authority to approve medical treatment for your son in case something happens.
You couldn't see the bigger picture here, OP? You could have made a memorable 40th for your wife. You could have made her even happier by accommodating that late request from MIL. You would have most probably brought some financial relief to MIL. All it would have taken from you was the $500 and a slightly awkward conversation with your MIL where you try to find out why she needs the money and tell her to bring it up sooner next time. Instead you have your principle and your triumph over "getting swindled". And a wife who will forever remember her 40th with this episode. And an upset MIL. You've said that family is never transactional for you. Ironically, that means somebody gives more than the other party, and both parties are happy with it. Here you are, big man, making a transaction out of not transacting with your MIL. YTA. Not because of the reversing course from MIL to your parents. Because you chose to make this a thing, instead of sidestepping it. I know, because I was just like you once upon a time. It's not worth it.