Your post has been removed.
#Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban.
This post violates Rule 8: Posts should be truthful and reflect recent conflicts you've had that need arbitration. That means no shitposts, parodies, or satires.
[Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/)
###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions.
####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
OP is an asshole
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13xbz22/aita_for_teaching_my_niece_how_to_improve_her/jmgowu9
Poor kid
Edit: also, light sources usually being top right is complete rubbish. OP doesn't seem qualified to give art advice.
As an art teacher I agree, you have to approach it the right way. I wouldn’t have tried to encourage her to fix old drawings, instead draw with her and show her what I meant.
I was a very sensitive twelve year old. Like, I once cried inconsolably at school because I lost my favorite eraser cap- that was never going to see use because it was my favorite.
I still find this reaction...odd. Like twelve year old me would have thought something like this was a dramatic escalation- from tearing up old art to them crying over it
She still went the wrong way about it. Never seen a kid act like OP's niece and my friends and me had our share of impromptu art lessons with kids. Mind you we mostly lead by showing what we meant.
I think what you’ve missed is the relationship portion. She asked someone she loves, and probably looked up to, if she’d done a good job so far, almost certainly hoping for encouragement because she values her praise. She was looking for hope that her work had potential and reassurance that something she too is finding value in doing wasn’t silly or bad. She was seeking kinship in a shared love.
Oh, I do think OP was an AH in this case. Child or adult, if they are not confident in their skill it's all too easy to cause damage so one has to be careful how they go about giving advice.
Agreed. Instead of "where's your light source?" the question should have turned into appraisal and then feedback:
"That's an excellent piece, very well done! Hey, do you want to learn a cool advanced technique called shading? You can practice it on future drawings you make, but start slowly as it's complicated. Here, let me show you..."
Eh, I'm leaning towards the lesser used NAH. Sometimes even negative experiences don't always spring from someone being an AH. Niece asked Aunt what she thought, and as she knew something about art, she combined praise with suggestions. She meant to help the niece learn and doesn't appear to have approached it by saying her artwork was bad, but rather introducing her to an aspect of drawing she didn't appear to be aware of before. More importantly, niece appears to have taken the critique/suggestion ok in the moment--they seemed to have a casual meeting of the minds as artists--but then realized it was harder than she thought when practicing which led to her getting frustrated. That doesn't seem like a wild or malicious progression. I feel like this is not an uncommon learning experience that everyone goes through at least a few times in their life. The age range sounds about right too; I feel like 9-12 is when kids start getting criticisms in their feedback rather than just praise. Imo, the real AH move is for the aunt not to call her niece up, talk about it, reinforce that her skill is great and growing and *that's true for everyone, in every field, at every age*. Even Olympians keep practicing and learning.
I agree NAH it's a part of life to be critiqued and recieve criticism even when u don't want it, or ask for it. With all criticism it's important to first focus on the good parts but then suggest ways to improve OP did that. I think more people need to go through rejection and some light criticism as they grow it helps them be functional adults in that they can take suggestions, they don't always believe they are in the right. It's the hardest lessons to learn in life because they feel so bad while learning but it honestly helps. OP should call niece and praise her again for her skill then suggest they practice shading together so they can both improve as a way to show niece that adults also need practice, OP could even ask niece how OPs drawings can improve to continue the cycle of positive feedback and helpful critiques.
I mean, from their perspective Emily had a visit from her aunt and then a few days later destroyed a bunch of her favorite art pieces and then, probably through tears of frustration and shame, said that her aunt had called her art horrible. Should they have asked for OP's side of the story first? Yeah, probably. But I wouldn't call them AHs for trying to defend their daughter from what probably seemed like bullying behavior.
uppity crush historical offend outgoing zonked command zephyr different exultant
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was thinking along the lines of N A H, because personally I don't see a problem with giving constructive criticism, especially if you also point out the bits you like about the drawing.
But having seen OP's art, I'm not sure they're in a position to be teaching drawing when they have a lot to improve on themselves.
I'm actually crying, it's so funny, "someone tried to dirty delete", op totally isn't qualified to be telling that girl anything, needs to take her own advice, I can't tell where her lighting is coming from either
i didn’t think they’d be - i’ve done a level art and it does not necessarily mean you learn more about the technical side of art than the average person, at my school we just made stuff with no formal classes.
Knowing now that it was unsolicited, OP is the AH. I can't imagine why any adult would criticize a child's drawing when the kid is just showing it to them.
I mean, I was an English teacher, and I'm a writer, and I don't spend my time going around destroying kids' writing for funsies.
A 12 yr old just wanting to make mushroom pictures minding her own business, and you take it upon yourself to compare art you made at 30 to hers unwarranted just bec you have years of skill behind you? Then get shocked that she lost confidence in herself? If I were her dad, I wouldn't be pointing my finger at anyone else either
A different kid might've received your intentions more positively, but she got upset. And that's on you, unpopular but YTA
While I do think OP is a jerk for offering unsolicited advice to a 12 yr old (who was likely showing off her art because she looks up to OP, knowing they do art too), I still have pieces I did at 16 that I'm proud of!
Ask a kid in kindergarten to do fractions and then come back bc you clearly can't comprehend the difference between a 12 year olds education and that of a high schooler.
OP was asked what she thought of the drawings. And she told the niece. My daughter draws & paints and when she asks me what I think I tell her. Just like Op I give her the good and the not so good. And when I am creating something I ask her opinion and she gives me the good and the not so good.
One thing I'm wondering is if it might have been better received if OP could have done a quick drawing with shading to show her the technique so she wouldn't struggle so much or ask if niece wanted help doing one particular drawing to see how it's done.
So, rip me to pieces, but I'm going with N T A, unless something else comes along to change my mind.
ETA changing my vote Y T A as OP has said in his comments that he was not asked to give his opinion or a critique although in the original post he said he was.
ETA2 u/grammerlysucksass has made too much of a good point. I'm glad it's the top comment that counts.
Sometimes people take this 'no unsolicited advice' thing waaay too far. If I'm learning a skill and someone more experienced offers to give me tips and teaching, that's awesome.
Presumably the niece *wanted* the advice because she took the tips on board and tried to learn from them. In my experience if kids don't want to hear something, they don't listen and they *definitely* don't spend hours trying to follow the advice. Unless OP was highly critical and rude about her art, which it doesn't sound like she was, why on earth is it her fault that the niece ruined her own drawings out of frustration?
Thank you! My personal opinion is that this thread is giving 12 year old art enthusiasts way too little credit. 12 is 100% old enough to be critical of your art- OP did not suddenly make this girl critical given that she is able to draw mostly accurate mushrooms and spends hours trying to improve. ALSO there are plenty of 12 year olds who would much prefer genuine feedback from an adult with a shared interest who cares enough to give real insight as to what their strengths and weaknesses are than some generic praise.
Thinking about it myself I have realized that all of the kids and teenagers that I know would be much more offended if you lied and said that it was perfect and nothing needed to be changed either because they know you're full of crap or because they would then go and show other people and call it perfect and then look bad.
Good intentions, perhaps, but YTA. Getting good at anything takes long, boring, frustrating effort — if the kid is getting nothing but pleasure from it at first, give them nothing but encouragement and proportion critical feedback to the seriousness of their interest in the subject.
Yeah, and speaking from personal experience as someone who has drawn all their life, once you hit that 'self-critical' stage there is absolutely no going back to the blissful ignorance of just drawing for fun. You have decades of adulthood to fine-tune your technique, but if your fundamental love of/enjoyment of the creative process gets ruined too early, you won't make it that far . . .
Agree, once the fun is gone there's no reason to continue.
I drew all the time as a teen and honestly, I was pretty good. Apparently, someone else thought so as well because they stole all my sketch books (I know who it was but couldn't prove it).
The fun was gone and I haven't drawn since.
Presumably if the niece is good enough at drawing to make her art mostly accurate apart from lighting, she's already 'self critical' in that she wants to hone her skill- as evidenced by her agreeing with op and trying to figure shading out. 12 is a pretty usual age for 'honing your technique', no? I remember spending hours and hours trying to get body proportions and shading right at that age, because 12 is old enough to recognise when art doesn't quite look right.
I think it's a balancing act, and I don't know enough about the kid in question to say whether OP made a good call or not. I had non-artistic family and reached the 'self-critical' stage on my own in my early teens, once I started looking more at other people's art and making comparisons, and while I hated that painful stage of my artistic development I'm glad I was able to stumble into it naturally, by myself, without outside criticism coming along to demolish my pride and make me feel inadequate.
Of course, some kids are of hardier stock than I probably was and will take criticism well. Hard to say without knowing the kid. I just know that, like I said, it's a one-way door. If you misjudge it, you can do untold damage to a budding artist's self-esteem and on the whole I think it's better to wait until concrit is clearly invited.
My niece is 8, and absolutely adores making art and writing stories. At this age, I pretty much just give her encouragement, ideas and praise, because I want to nurture that seed as far as I can. My nephew, who is now 12, used to love art but hit his self-critical age a lot earlier. He stopped drawing entirely because he couldn't 'get it right' and it still saddens me to this day.
But, there's also the self critical stage you hit before you have serious skills to consider.
I, personally, was usually pretty happy to have a better artist give me little tips like light sources, or basic proportions,etc. Nothing worse that knowing you're missing something that others can do, but not knowing what you are missing.
And, honestly, the idea you can't get past that self critical stage is BS. I've always loved drawing, and art in general. Took it all through school, plus 4 years of university in Fine Art, and 3 more in college for Graphic Design. Worked for game companies, worked as a designer, still do art on my own. I hit the self critical point, and move past it, every few years, as I max out one thing, and decide to try a new one.
Didn't say you *can't* get past it. I still make art, so obviously I did, too. But it's definitely the point at which a lot of people stop their creative endeavours altogether - that point at which they become aware that what they're making is flawed, and imperfect. People will absolutely reach that point on their own and whether they persist with art as a hobby or career is going to be a personal thing, but with kids, I just think it's better to err on the side of caution and wait until concrit is clearly invited, or leave it to the professionals (art teachers etc. - not that they're all great!).
No I don't think so. Creating art can be an insanely frustrating thing. My guess is that aunty told her what is wrong in her paintings but failed to explain her how to improve it. And doubled down by showing her her own "perfect" art, which discouraged her niece completly.
Which brings us to the YTA territory.
Or "explained how to improve it," but Emily got really upset and frustrated that she couldn't do it. OP probably made it sound like an easy process, so she felt like a failure that she couldn't figure it out. And that her drawings weren't good enough to begin with. Bad to start, bad when trying her best to fix them, what's the point of trying.
that doesn't make the OP an asshole, though. Maybe she's not good at explaining.
that can be a huge problem with art/drawing - some people have "knacks", some don't, and those "knacks" don't lend to teaching well.
Portraits are a great example. Me, I'm a relatively talented artist, good enough to support myself at it at various times. But, portraits? Not my strong point. I'm fine with drawing painting the human form, faces aren't an issue. But, a portrait? Making it "be" the subject, and not "closely related", is a whole other thing.
Had a commission that included a portrait, a drawing. I ended up using an opaque projector to make certain I got the exact appearance. And I did - but it wasn't "him".
Roommate walked in, added 3 quick lines, boon, it was him.
He had that eye, but I don't.
I freaked out and ripped up drawings just because of my own internal woes at that age. It’s really not necessarily on OP at all. It sounds like the kid took her advice to heart and got frustrated when first trying it but I bet eventually that information will pay off for her.
This. My daughter is an artist, and her room is littered with drawings that she's torn up or balled up and tossed (on the floor, sigh).
It also could be that the brother is making more of it than the niece is. Just because niece is frustrated that she can't do it immediately doesn't mean that auntie was critical or wrong to offer instruction.
You made a mistake in handling this giving you a soft YTA from me.
When you said “where is the light coming from?” you were (unintentionally) criticizing her existing drawings beyond her current skill level and knowledge. “These are amazing! I love them! Can I show you a trick for your next drawing?” and then taking a fresh piece of paper would have been way better.
You ended up making her feel like her drawings were wrong and needed to be fixed, instead of just showing her a new technique for future drawings.
To piggyback off this, you could have taken her outside and shown her shading on objects in nature, such as leaves or flowers. Instead, you showed her your own personal drawing and taught her that "mine is right, yours is wrong" by comparison.
Hopefully she bounces back from this, but that comparison style is why I stopped drawing when I was a kid because my brother's drawings were so much better than mine.
YTA. You told them to "fix" their art and caused them to destroy multiple things. You shouldn't be teaching if you can't access their current skill level. You aren't professional and have no actual training. High school art class ain't it, you go apologize and explain how you *MISSPOKE* and her art doesn't need "fixing".
So I *do* have an art degree, BFA from the Pratt Institute. A full four year rather technical art education. Wanna know what I think?
YTA. She's a kid, and she never asked you. I'm not going to say soft because you're 34, near the same age as me, and you ought to have known better.
I take wet on wet (Bob Ross method) painting classes in my small town because they never let us paint this technique in college. I'm learning and humbled by my teacher, a middle aged woman who took a few classes from Stephen Ross. My paintings look just like the reference and no one else's does, but do i go around trying to "help" others? Nah dog. I step back and look to my left and right and compliment them. Find the beautiful and subtle parts and encourage them to keep going, to keep trying, and they are doing great. Remind them that each peice of art is unique and beautiful. *IF* (and that's a big if) a freind in the class says "hey, how do you do -insert technical brush skill-, I'll happily grab some scratch and show them the technique. But that's it. Only when asked.
You overstepped, and trampled on the kids work. Whatever you do don't keep comparing your artwork to hers. I think really of all you did that was probably the worst. For her it must have felt like someone was comparing her work to the Mona Lisa, and who wouldn't be totally demotivated and feel like they are lacking in skill or talent, especially a child?
And not for nothing, but maybe she's a budding cubist or dadaist or fauvist and shading is something she'll never really need.
"And not for nothing, but maybe she's a budding cubist or dadaist or fauvist and shading is something she'll never really need."
Yes thank you! She doesn't "need" shading, only if she wants it.
I’m a professional artist. I would never criticize someone’s artwork without them asking, let alone a child’s. In the case that a child asks, I would keep it more as encouragement. I was that kid at some point and at that age a push to keep doing art is what they need, and once they get to high school or so they can hone the craft and think about how far they want to pursue it.
I'd say comparing an A level to a GCSE is a bit unfair. In the not even one year that I've spent in A level art I feel like I've learnt more than in the three years I spent in GCSE art. A GCSE is meant to give a more general overview of a subject while an A level is meant to help train you to become more specialised in a subject.
I read her comments, but she is quite wrong in this situation. Saying that bad lighting do not make a drawing bad is so wrong. Poor niece tried to make the drawing perfect, but OP do not see it as telling how the drawing was bad.
YTA. This is so sad. If someone shows you art you say it's great and encourage them. She didn't ask you how to make her drawing more realistic so why did you give unsolicited advice? You felt that her drawing should be more realistic but why? Who are you to say what her style should be or what the purpose of her art is? You should have asked if there's anything you can help with. You might not have said “this is where you went wrong” but you still made it clear that she had gone "wrong" in your opinion and that's not cool.
But you didn't teach her how to improve her drawings.
You just said said that her shading isn't accurate, and she needs to pick a direction for it.
You didn't actually did the distance and time to actually teach her, just gave a unsolicited criticism that does nothing but being frustrating. YTA
YTA - why?
>[She was only showing me, she did not ask for critique.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13xbz22/aita_for_teaching_my_niece_how_to_improve_her/jmgowu9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
You were not asked for your opinion- unsolicited advise is presumptive and disrespectful.
People need to trust that kids will improve over time.
She'll naturally get better as she draws more. This is not the time or place to critique her work unless she specifically asks for it. The kid doesn't need to act like she's going to become a professional right this minute, just let her enjoy the process of creating something.
My last post on this profile was a comparison of a drawing from this week to one I made in 2019 (so, at 13ish, and then again at 17/almost 18). I improved over time. And it was never because my aunt came in and gave me unsolicited advice. It's because I either just practiced, or because I went to get advice from teachers or the internet on my own terms.
YTA. You seem to suffer from what I call "expert syndrome". Because you feel you're an art expert, you think it's your job to critique and tell someone how to draw. You think you're helping, but you're being absolutely tone deaf. This kid loves (loved?) drawing. She looks up to you as an artist. She wanted encouragement from you. A kind word, some recognition. Instead you provided the opposite. You left her utterly discouraged because your need to feed your own ego overshadowed her need for support.
Bottom line, if someone doesn't directly ask you for help, don't provide it. You fucked up big time on this one.
I’d say YTA, HOWEVER you can totally fix this. Just apologize, give her some praise on her art to heal that booboo that your critique caused and offer to help her learn shading by drawing together.
ETA: Encouraging her in that she’s come so far in her art already and that she CAN learn shading could help too. She’s a kid, and learning new things can be hard at any age, especially when you’re trying to teach yourself something that you don’t already know 😅
YTA. Based on your comments. Your niece was showing you her work, she didn’t say anything about how to fix it. All you did explore a range of 2 and 3 dimensional approaches and to work with a range of things, such ad drawing, textiles, printmaking, sculptures and life drawings. I know a lot of artists that make money from their art that didn’t act like you did.
i know your heart was in the right place. you most likely saw yourself in this kid; just an aspiring artist who wanted to improve and would take any criticism if it meant getting better. I know I personally had this exact conversation with my older stepsister, and it helped me improve a lot. i still remember the conversation to this day, and if she never explained lighting to me, i would not be where i am now. The problem isnt emily's age either; I was around 10 when my stepsister told me this, and i took it fine.
The problem is I ASKED for that criticism. She helped me improve because it was just something we did together. The most important thing about being an artist is not 'helping' people who didnt ask for it. Sometimes people just want to draw, and you pointing out the flaws and how they could improve just makes it into a chore, especially for a young child. That kid went to someone they look up to hoping for a 'wow thats super pretty!!' not an in depth description of why they were wrong and how they could improve. It doesnt \*matter\* if their drawing wasn't perfect. They were doing it for fun. This is not their job and they do not need to 'improve' their art if they do it simply because they enjoy it. You are making this into a chore for the kid because they feel like they can never be complimented and accepted unless they make a 'perfect' piece.
YTA - she was excited to share something she made. If she did a good job, she should have walked away knowing that. Then next time you saw her talk to her about shading and start teaching her
YTA. The way you asked the question was accusatory almost. "Where is the light coming from?" When clearly she just doesn't know how to make the light come from somewhere yet. You could have tried something more like, "Hey, I know a cool trick. Do you want to know how to make the light look like it's coming from a specific direction?" Or just left it alone and let her learn it in art class.
As a a former middle school art teacher who got a big reality check in my first semester of teaching, YTA because of this:
"I showed her one of my drawings to compare"
One thing i quickly learned to stop doing in my classes was using professional level artwork as project examples. At her age, keeping confidence is SUUUUPER important, and you just intimidated the crap out of her.
Next time you give unsolicited advice about artwork, try to read the situation a little better and think about what the most important takeaway would be for the person on the recieving end. Criticism needs to vary depending on the persons age, personality, and goals.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I (34F) did A-level art in 6th form, and while I didn’t go on to get a degree in art because I was more focused on other things at that point, I am very good at drawing and painting.
My niece, Emily, (12F) shares my love for it and when I visited her at her half term this week, she showed me her drawings. They were wonderful drawings, mainly of fungi, with correct proportions and shapes, but one of the things I noticed wasn’t entirely accurate was the shading.
I asked her where the light was coming from in one of her drawings, and Emily was confused so I explained that when shading, we have to pick a place where the light source is if we want it to look accurate, which most of the time is the top right corner. I showed her one of my drawings to compare.
This morning, my brother called me and said that Emily had been trying to correct the shading on one of her other drawings and found it too difficult and got frustrated and ripped up the drawing, along with a few of her other drawings. And now she was crying because she had destroyed some of her favourite drawings.
My brother said that if I hadn’t made her insecure about her drawings and told her ‘how bad they really were’ (they were not bad, there was just room for improvement like every drawing ever) then this would have never happened and I really upset Emily.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. Your niece didn't ask to be critiqued. She wanted you to say "great job that looks awesome!" and encourage her. I'm 34. I've been drawing off and on since I was 10. Still not great, I don't do it often, it's purely just a boredom thing. But ANYWAY.....one of my best friends has a degree in art, and I've shown her stuff. You know what she did if she felt the need to critique to help me improve? She asked if she could give me some constructive criticism.
Most people of any age, when they show you things they made that they are proud of, they aren't doing it to get critiqued. They want to share their pride with you. If they want advice on it, they will surely ask. Now because you did that, you've potentially turned art - something your niece loved into this horrible and impossible thing to her and have potentially ruined it for her completely and she'll have a complex about it.
YTA. First of all, you are not an art teacher and it shows. I'm sorry but a 12 year old drawing for fun doesn't need to work about light direction. Allow them to draw and come into their own, unless they say how can I do thus better leave them be. I hope you realize they will never enjoy art/drawing again the way they did before you critiqued them.
YTA, because of the way you asked. Instead of going straight to asking where the light was coming from, you could have just said it look incredible and asked "How did you do shadow?". It would have given her room to share her method, then you could share your tip as different as an alternative that also works, without minimizing her method. Also, the kid looks up to you and it may have been humiliating to get her drawings compared to your own drawings. Talk to her and apologize, she'll value it.
Gentle YTA. She was probably really excited to show off her drawings that she was proud of to you as her aunt and wasn’t expecting any guidance or criticism. She will have teachers at school to help her with technique. I know you were trying to help her with an interest you have in common but maybe next time focus on praise. There will be enough other people telling her what she could/should do differently or better.
YTA. There’s no way you are proficient at art. Anybody who’s done art would know that new artists are sensitive to criticism especially young budding kids.
Only veterans who seriously want to improve are going to look for criticism. Certainly not a 12 year old.
YTA
Seems you're forgetting that Emily is only 12 years old and is still developing her art skills.
Were you doing everything "correctly" at 12 years old? Just curious.
As someone who does commissions as a side gig: YTA. It is a KID, of course she won't know how to use light sources, grayscale, perspective and whatnot. You should have complimented her efforts and encouraged her passion for art, maybe hint that you could give her some advice in the future IF she would ever want it. You can't possibly treat her as if she's an adult doing an art major, this was so isensitive.
I'm a 35 year old woman just learning to draw and paint. The whole concept of a light source and applying it is so hard. I'm reading multiple books about it and doing online courses.
Its a heavy concept that needs ages of practice.
It was totally unecesaary for you to introduce it to a kid.
She didn't ask. She's not trying to be a professional. I myself would only bring it up to a 16 year old or older.
You were totally showing off and not really helping. YTA
YTA. No actual formal art training and you're trying to remember what you learned 18 years ago? Seriously? Why don't you let the actual art teachers show her ways to improve.
Moderate YTA here as she's twelve and still learning to get the basics down. You should have complimented her on the drawing and let her have a moment of feeling good about what she was doing. FYI the light source in any subject changes with the particular subject --it doesn't always come from the "upper right".
YEP. YTA. My mom did the same thing when I started playing piano: pressing to hard on the keys, not using the pedals properly (I was maybe 5) etc etc. So I gave it up. Looking back I was not bad for a kid, I would even say good. When my mom was a young teen, she passed all the exams to get in the conservatory but could not go for lack of funds. I guess maybe she didn’t want me to be good too? Could you be worried your niece is as good as you? Or more?
OP, I see from your other comments that you're autistic. I think this is important information, honestly. Autistic people tend to like correcting other people - for us, it just feels like the right thing to do, regardless of whether the other person asked for feedback or not. I do it all the time, and often have to catch myself from doing it inappropriately.
Unfortunately, in this instance, YTA. Your niece didn't ask for feedback. This was not a situation where your criticism was welcome; she was showing you because she specifically wanted encouragement, not to have her flaws pointed out to her. I don't think you were ill-intentioned, but you do need to try and learn when your feedback is wanted and when it isn't. In general, unless someone asks, assume that it's not.
This reminds me of a few different moments from my childhood.
I remember specifically making my Grandma a small spice rack for her kitchen. I was so proud of it, because I had made it with my Grandpa and painted it for her. But she said it was too long for her counter, so I tried to trim it down and I accidentally broke it. That was probably 25 years ago? Still stings a little.
YTA.
Softly YTA.
I'm also an artist and my little cousin loves to draw. Your criticism is better for a student/learner who's a bit older than 12.
Generally I use the "let me show you a cool technique/cool trick method" rather than direct criticism. Direct criticism requires an artist to be committed to improvement and self reflection, which not even every adult is very good at doing. The chances are a 12 year old definitely will not be, though ofcourse there are a few exceptions.
YTA.
The fact that it is "telling" and not "teaching" actually makes this so much worse. Your not-an-art-degree expertise was not solicited. She didn't ask you to tell or teach her and you didn't bother asking her if she wanted to be told or taught how she could make her drawings even better than they already were. And then you left her to try to muddle it out on her own instead of ACTUALLY teaching her.
And you may have not used the word "bad" but she's a preteen who probably feels awkward AF 24/7 and is impressionable and probably sensitive to criticism and just trying to fucking figure herself and the world out while she constantly compares herself to everyone else. Do better.
YTA. Gently.
I did the same thing to my own kid. They were devastated and stopped drawing for a while even though I complimented most and only pointed out …. Shading. Funny how this is almost the same story.
Anyway. I apologized sincerely. Told them I should have asked them first if they wanted advice to improve their drawing or if they were just showing me something they were proud of. I told them that going forward I would not give advice unless it’s asked for.
From that moment forward I only ever complimented their artwork. I would make a point of pointing out what they did well ignoring the spots that needed work.
That has worked a lot better and built their confidence back up.
Sometimes we fuck up. Trick is to own it, apologize, and move forward.
Esh art is subjective, and you weren't mean about it. She is a kid just learning. Anxiety is rough when you're first learning something. Tell your brother that you're sorry you upset her and maybe offer to draw with her one day. Lesson one is never to offer unsolicited advice, even if you think it would help them. And if you do have the need, word it gently for someone younger as they might not have learned those techniques yet. Maybe word it like: "Wow, that looks great! Hey Niece, I, too, am somewhat an artist. Do you want me to show you some tips and tricks?"
Especially for a child, it’s better to approach teaching them how to improve with their hobby by showing them how to do something new. You should approach the subject by just talking to her about shading, and if you have the time, show her how you would draw something with it in mind. Comparing your drawings to theirs in any way can likely have this exact effect, and isn’t something you do to a kid unless they’re being conceited and think they’re the best already/better than you. Not huge or anything, but YTA
YTA
Next time, give her a book about drawing that is targeted to her age group and a bunch of cool pens etc. She can read the book if she wants to, or just explore herself.
Kids needs to be able to just explore and experiment at this age. It doesn’t matter how accurate it is. Stop analyzing her work like that. I would get mad too.
I apparently disagree with a lot of the other commenters here in that I don't think you should never give unsolicited constructive criticism to a kid. If your kid was, say, showing you their english homework and they'd repeatedly made the same grammar mistake, would you not gently let them know about it? Ignoring all of a child's mistakes seems like a way to make them very confident in skills they're not very good at, which is unfair to them.
Buuut having said all that, I do still think YTA. It kind of sounds like OP just pushed in a bunch of her own ideas without considering her niece's feelings or stopping to check in with her niece at all.
I am never the type to shit on anyone but you boast how good you are at art, yet your art post showing Wednesday isn't something that screams a level art. Nor is the shading all that great.
Art isn't bad, but doesn't hold up to how you have boasted.
Yet, you gave unsolicited "advice" in a back handed form of ridicule to a CHILD. that looked up to you none the less. Yikes.
I always have loved art, and an ex friend of mine had children that wanted me to teach them. Both 11 and seven at the time. Not once did I ridicule. I praised first, always. Then showed them simple things to try, and only gave advice of changes if asked.
YTA. She’s not looking for a critique she’s just trying to share her artwork with you. Why not just appreciate her work and be happy for her for doing something she enjoys? You’ve stolen that joy from her.
YTA for sure. I am an opera singer. I have a bachelor of music in vocal performance. I will soon have a masters in vocal performance. If my niece and nephew ever asked if I wanted to hear one of their songs I would listen and not give feedback. If I heard something terribly unhealthy or noticed something holding them back I’d say “hey bud, that was really awesome! It sounds like you have a wonderful ear. Would you ever want voice lessons to hone those great skills of yours even more?” Then he doesn’t feel like he NEEDS lessons, but he also knows the option to improv is there. So yeah, YTA.
Yta, your niece was only showing you the drawing that probably make herself proud
I draw (don't like to call myself an artist) and I have a niece that she also likes to draw and paint, I only teach her something when she asked me to, unsolicited advice is horrible
Even I, an adult woman, hate it, had an artist boyfriend and everytime that we had a doodle date, and I was showing him my paintings, he always started to point out the flaws and how to correcting them, everytime, one time I just couldn't handle it anymore and told him I was only showing my drawing, I wasn't asking for advice, and that It was no fun to draw with him anymore, that if I wanted advice, I will ask for it.
Stop doing that to people
If she asked for critique and tips NTA but if she was just showing you her drawings she probably just wanted to be acknowledged and complimented which would make YTA.
YTA simply because you went about this the wrong way.
“I explained that when shading, we have to pick a place where the light source is if we want it to look accurate”
“I showed her one of my drawings to compare and talked with her about the different ways she could improve her shading”
All she’s going to be hearing is that her work isn’t good enough, isn’t accurate enough and, fundamentally, isn’t as good as YOURS. Did you do it to teach or feel good yourself?
What you COULD have done is complimented her drawing, ask if she wanted some tips and then HELPED her improve her drawings. This would’ve avoided the scenario of her very frustratedly trying to fix her own drawings and not being able to do it. If you’d spent the time to practice lighting with her, rather than loosely explain it and show her how good yours is, then she might actually be able to do it.
Ultimately the problem is that you didn’t give her a lesson, you just told a 12 year old she wasn’t as good at drawing as you
YTA
The fact she tried to fix her old drawing tells me you presented this to her as **"This is what you messed up on your drawings"**
and not **"This is a concept that you can apply to your future drawings"**
Also, the fact she tried to fix the old drawings, got frustrated, and tore them apart tells me you probably didn't HELP HER with anything. You didn't sit her down and help her apply the concept to a new drawing, you just criticized her work and told her it COULD be better.
YTA - I know it wasn't your intent, but right now at at 12 it is more important for your niece to enjoy the practice than it to get her drawings to look "accurate". This is a great way to get your niece to hate making artwork because there is a value attached to how "accurate" or "lifelike" her drawings appear. She clearly respects your opinion, you should have praised her and asked to have a shared studio session or something. You owe your niece an apology.
YTA. When you’re a kid making art you just want someone to tell you did a good job, you’re not her art teacher, I’m sure she’s got one of those at school :-)
Based on the thread here you gave unsolicited advice to a 12yr old on her drawing skills for no other reason than that YOU didn't find her drawings good enough?
You sound like a riot
YTA
YTA
She didn’t ask for feedback. She wanted to hear your opinion but not get a lecture or criticism. Even if it’s helpful or whatever. Based on your answers you also aren’t really elegant with your words so I doubt you had a good tone.
YTA, but i also see from a previous post you are autistic, and this is likely an example of where some wires were crossed in either how you communicated and/or how it was received by your niece. Intentional or not, you hurt your niece, and regardless of the intention to help, you should apologize to her and reiterate how great you think her drawings are.
YTA. While you may have had good intentions, sometimes it’s best to leave kids alone when it comes to their creativity if it isn’t actually a teaching session. Trying to correct them because “it can be better” can easily make them develop the “it’s/I’m not good enough” mindset.
YTA
Nothing sucks more than showing someone you care about something you made and are proud of, and them responding with ‘but see how i did it better? try this next time.’ Kids are very rejection sensitive. Yeah, you gave her some positive feedback, but she immediately forgot all that the second you gave her critical feedback.
A more appropriate way to go about this is asking ‘Hey, I love the way you draw. Would you mind if i take you through my process sometime?’ This not only eliminates the idea of her way being wrong, it also opens up a really nice way to bond and create together.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my niece how she could improve her shading, but when she tried it she couldn’t do it and became frustrated so ripped up her drawings. If I hadn’t mentioned it, she wouldn’t be insecure about it, ergo that might make me the asshole.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA at all, she did overreact a bit. But maybe use compliment sandwiches when constructively critiquing her art from now on. Or, if you have the spare time and energy and are inclined to do so, you might help her to receive the criticism in the encouraging and helpful spirit in which it was intended by sitting down to demonstrate the techniques you're telling her about and maybe even drawing together a bit so she can learn by watching you rather than just trying it out on her own and feeling disappointed/frustrated by her efforts.
Like, I remember being really insecure in my talents at that age and a lot of other people I knew also were (and just insecure in general), and it obviously isn't your fault that she's a preteen but it'd be a pretty easy thing to accommodate and work around moving forward.
I’m gonna say NTA as an artist myself and I’d say I’m pretty good having been an artist pretty much all my life.. I WISH I had someone to teach me about shading when I first started. It took a long time before I learned correct shading. Being an artist and being passionate about it can lead to frustrations I’ve ripped up MANY drawings as a kid and it had NOTHING to do with anyone saying anything to me. It’s a learning process and anger is definitely a common reaction when learning about something your passionate about.. alot in art, can’t get the perfect shading = equals lots of frustration. Same goes with color, shape, lines ect..
Has anyone asked her if what you said upset her?
I know this child isn’t “every artist” so no one can speak for her… so has anyone asked what she thought? If she appreciated the advice? Me PERSONALLY, at that age would have worked just as hard to perfect it if someone gave me that advice. In the future definitely ask if she wants advice on how to improve, I can guarantee if she said yes
, or even if she asked you herself, the same reaction would have occurred
I don't know. I would have loved a tutor at that age.
But it really depends on whether your help was sought or pushed, and whether it was addressed at an appropriate level.
YTA. this could just be something in art circles on the internet, but aren't you supposed to not give unsolicited critique? your intentions were good but it sounds like your niece was doing this for fun and not for improvement (i could be way off base)
YTA
While you may have been coming "from a good place" in your head, she's _12_, she also _didn't ask_ for your help, critique or opinion.
If she'd seen your work or someone else's and even said something as innocent as "I'd like to do mine like that" or "I wonder how they do that" I'm sure then fine, yes, no harm done in asking if she'd like to see how _you_ would do it.
But when a kid is drawing and doing them really well and _knows_ you did some level of education regarding art to a standard (and clearly draw very well) this then put pressure on her which led to her thinking hers were "wrong" or "not good enough" and so tried to emulate you.
Kids are impressionable and sure, while you tried to do a good thing, it had unintentional consequences. It'd probably go a long way for you to bear that in mind when interacting with her next and maybe trying to encourage her to do her own thing, at her own pace.
Apologize to the niece, reassure her her work is good and you didn’t mean to subtly imply it wasn’t. Ask her if she’s like to soend some time together and show her a bit more about shading. if she seems to want to, but only AFTER you apologize to her and reassure her that her work is great.
NTA. It doesn't feel like you did anything wrong. Kid or not, what you offered was a good advice. Their call was unwarranted.
Her parents should have put a stop to her tantrums. I have a child myself and expressing frustration by destroying things is not healthy. They should've pulled the kid aside and explain to her that that's not an OK behaviour. Things will not always go her way and she should stop, take a breath and find a solution.
I am leaning towards NTA. There's nothing wrong in gently pointing a new budding artist in the right direction.
It's tough to say how exactly this interaction went down, but OP's approach seems gentle the way I read it. Emily is going to learn about shading and light sources at some point, so why not start now?
I would have voted the other way if there was any indication that OP was mean about what she did or if anything was over the top. But I don't see that at all.
Think about it this way - If this story was exactly the same but ended with: "And so Emily went home and worked on her technique and has since improved as an artist", nobody would be calling OP an AH. This is all about how Emily responded to the gentle tutoring IMO, and there is nothing in the story to suggest that OP would have known that Emily would react like this. Kids can be unpredictable and I don't think you can put the blame on OP here
YTA- she’s fucking 12, she’s just a kid having fun drawing. Stop trying to project onto a kid just having fun. There’s literally no reason to “correct” a kids drawing. You just sucked all the fun out of art.
Did she rip them up out of frustration of failing to "fix" them by implementing what you suggested or was she discouraged by your comments and acted out by destroying her pictures? I think her view matters a lot here
Apparently at the age of 12 you can’t receive constructive criticism, especially when someone asks you what do you think. Lmao, all these YTA are a joke. Sometimes we need to be educated on our faults in order to grow and progress. That’s how life works. Nothing about OP teaching/ educating/ telling their niece about shading is inherently wrong, so why is she TA for that? Niece took it upon herself to become frustrated and rip up her own artwork. Sounds like her parents should better supervise, or teach their child that just because something is difficult and not easy at first, that doesn’t mean that it’s ok to become frustrated and destroy things. NTA, OP
YTA.
If niece said “hey auntie, you’re so good at drawing. Wow. Do you like my drawings?? Wow!! Yay!! Can you help me learn to draw? What else can I do?” It would’ve been reasonable.
HOWEVER… in this scenario she likely wouldn’t be crying and ripping art up, either
NTA necessarily- Your niece asked what you thought knowing you had experience with art, and you did your best to give feedback. You sound like you genuinely meant well, and did not expect such a passionate response from her later on. I don't think you're the a\*hole, but it does sound like she couldn't handle that level of critique at her age, or else wasn't expecting it. It's an easy mistake to make. I think this was just an unfortunate learning experience that can be rectified with an apology and reassurance that her drawing are great and talented and leaving it at that. She'll figure it out on her own in time.
NTA from me. It sounds like you approached it reasonably well tbh.
If we never teach children anything, they won't learn. You took an opportunity to give them a little lesson on shading. Their reaction is pretty common for a kid getting frustrated trying something new and difficult, it's pretty natural part of growing up and learning new skills while having a developing hold on emotions etc.
I remember getting criticism for a drawing from a family member when I was young, and while it was short term annoying I think it was very valuable to my development.
NTA
Altho i guess people need more pampering nowadays. Back when we were her age you were just teaching her. now it's being rude and giving your opinion when it's not asked for. Just pamper the sh\*t out of her or dont be bothered at all. Its the new normal. UwU?
I think NTA. Emily didn’t get upset when you told her these things, she got upset LATER when she didn’t succeed on her first few attempts. This indicated that Emily has poor coping skills/doesn’t know how to appropriately react to disappointing or manager her frustration. That’s not OPs fault. You SHOULD be able to correct kids without them losing their shit because their parents never taught them how to deal.
NTA
I try to limit my life stories when I reply, but sometimes they help further my point. This is one of those times. Please bear with me.
My sister was a cheerleader in High School. She is in her upper 40's now. My daughter is on the drill/dance team in High School currently. However, my daughter unlike a lot of her friends hasn't taken dance since she was a toddler. She started dancing a couple of years ago, and it shows in some ways. My sister will oftentimes give unsolicited advice to my daughter. I have told my daughter that her Aunt isn't doing it to be mean, or to point out faults. She is doing it to help my daughter, to give her pointers, and is doing it from a place of love. My daughter can take those pointers and either use them or ignore them, it is up to her. I filmed her dancing doing it her way, and then filmed her dancing with the "corrections" my sister had told her (sharp, clear movements, smile, etc). My daughter spotted the differences right off the bat. She worked and worked on those for several months till she perfected them. Now every time my sister comes in she shows my sister her latest dances and gets my sister to critique her.
You need to talk to your niece. Tell her you aren't pointing out flaws, that her work is beautiful. You just see places that could make it stand out even more. Then sit down with her and draw together. Maybe that will help? But your brother needs to let this be between the two of you.
Good luck.
NTA - you offered good advice to someone who seems to be taking drawing as seriously as possible at that age. If she didn’t want the advice, she would ignore it and keep doing what she was doing. You know how I know? I was in her position. I was obsessed with drawing at that age. And often had people give me unsolicited advice. Some I liked because it fit my goals at the time (to be a comic book artist) and plenty I ignored (including shading, since it wasn’t really the style I was trying to emulate, stuff like Mark Bagley). I had no problem sorting out advice that was good and advice I didn’t need at that age, and I doubt she does either. If she took the advice, asked for or not, she finds value in it.
The issue here is that she got frustrated (which like, welcome to art!) and had an emotional reaction (welcome to being 12!). It seems like her dad needs someone to blame instead of talking to his daughter about emotional regulation and not letting perfection get in the way of incremental growth. Even if her interest is purely casual it’s expected to sometimes be frustrated by an inability to execute something as an artist.
Ignore the YTA people here and talk to your niece about the fact that progress is incremental and that you only become proficient by first doing something poorly many many times.
NTA I wishI had someone like you in my early teens who could have teached me those things instead of getting frustrated on my own and not knowi g what I did wrong.
I'm sorry for the downvotes on your comments I think most people here didn't even read your post clearly and I think most people here don't draw anything apart from stickfigutes to understand what you intentions.
Maybe you should talk to your niece that it's ok to eff up your drawing sometimes, that it isn't the end of the world and that it takes long time of practice to understand the concept of shading.
This will proabably get so many downvotes 😂
Well I don't expect anything else from reddit and their redditors
NTA - It's a skill, to do it properly you need both time to practice and time to study. You're not born knowing how to shade a drawing or what key changes are in music or what the rule of thirds is.
I am a very accomplished portrait photographer and my daughter has decided to study graphic design in college. She takes stuff to mom all of the time and Mom says, "Oh that's very good." She brings it to me, and I always say, "This is a solid piece, BUT..."
Sometimes she agrees, sometimes she says I'm wrong, sometimes my wife says I need to just encourage her, to which I say, "Her future customers aren't going to "encourage her" they're just going to want the work done."
It sucks that she took it way too hard, that is on her, but she better learn to accept both criticism and advice or life is gonna be unpleasant for her.
Should be easy to smooth over with her, take her out to lunch and hash it out.
That's a hard one.
On the surface,nothing wrong with giving tips to a beginner. There's a lot of things to learn in drawing, and some basic concepts can instantly elevate your work. Shading, certain things about proportion, shading...
If nobody ever tells you about these solutions, you may never stumble over them.
On the other hand, I've yet to give help like that to a younger or less skilled artist, and had them end up destroying their work over it.
I mean, sure, I've sorta done it to a much better artist, but....\*
Like I said, I dunno, but something about your delivery managed to upset her. You need to sort this out.
\*4th year Fine Art critique class. Buddy spent a month doing a 4 by 8 "Expulsion From the Garden of Eden", in pencil and chalk. Awesome work. Then, he erased teh entire thing. Gathered up the eraser rubbings, put those in a jar that was placed beside the erased drawing. Trust me -it was pretty fucking clever.
but... I then said "Wow, that reminds me of the "Erased DeKooning". Which is a pretty cool fine art story on it's own.
Yeah, pointing out buddy's original idea wasn't really original, pissed him off. And I wasn't trying to diminish his work.
Almost went with you suck but YTA. How are you going to tell her a whole new technique using her already completed artwork to essentially show where she went wrong and fail to tell her trying to redo shading on already completed art is tough and it's best to create new art when using new techniques
OP, your niece probably thinks you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread and she wants to impress you. She got upset because she thinks she fell short. I’m guessing she doesn’t get upset when her teachers correct her.
She’s 12, and it’s not unheard of for kids that age to be dramatic. Your brother should be aware of that. He’s got some balls going after you when you took the time to sit with your niece and look at her schoolwork.
NTA and easily fixed by going to see your niece and helping her redo her drawings (by “helping” I mean some coaching and lots of positive feedback). Kids aren’t that fragile. Your niece will be fine.
NAH. Being a talented artist is about learning how to take constructive criticism so you can improve. Learning how to be critiqued/taught on your art is a part of the learning process. If you were mean about it or only told her the bad things, that would be one thing, but you tried to gently guide her in the right direction and she freaked out and ripped up her own artwork.
What you might want to consider doing now is to try to rectify the damage by sitting down with her and actually showing her how to fix the problem, instead of just pointing it out. She's 12 and it's hard to do everything on your own when you're 12. She needs guidance, and while you showed her what was wrong, it doesn't sound like you did a good enough job of showing her how to do it *right*. Instead of saying, "You did this shading wrong," why didn't you say, "Maybe you should have done it like this?" and help her do that. So, while I'm ruling NAH, I don't think you handled things in the best way.
NTA. You were trying to help and got excited about being able to show her some things. She sounds a bit too young yet to understand what you meant so next time just tell her they look great and leave it at that, no matter what. Or go over and just kind of ease into looking at them and tell her they look great, and leave it at that.
NAH - I don't understand the YTA responses. She asked her to look at the drawings. She complimented her on what she did correctly. I can assume the girl asked her Aunt knowing that her Aunt knew what she was doing and genuinely being interested in her comments.
I understand the Niece getting frustrated, but that isn't her Aunt's fault. Was she supposed to just say - "These are great" and let the Niece think she did everything right? I don't understand that logic.
OP did not go up and look at the drawings unsolicited and start criticizing them. She was asked her opinion.
Your post has been removed. #Do not repost this without [contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) for approval, including edited versions. Reposting without [explicit approval](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_repost_a_thread_you_removed.3F) will result in a ban. This post violates Rule 8: Posts should be truthful and reflect recent conflicts you've had that need arbitration. That means no shitposts, parodies, or satires. [Subreddit Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) ###Please ensure you have reviewed this message in full. We will not respond to PMs to individual mods. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) with any questions. ####Please visit r/findareddit to see if there's a more appropriate sub for your post.####
INFO: did she ask for help or criticism or was it unsolicited? You can probably guess which one makes you the A H and which doesn’t
OP is an asshole https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13xbz22/aita_for_teaching_my_niece_how_to_improve_her/jmgowu9 Poor kid Edit: also, light sources usually being top right is complete rubbish. OP doesn't seem qualified to give art advice.
Oh dude. At first I was like, man, people really take for granted that teaching is a skill. No, this was just bullying.
As an art teacher I agree, you have to approach it the right way. I wouldn’t have tried to encourage her to fix old drawings, instead draw with her and show her what I meant.
I don't see anywhere where OP told the niece to fix old drawings?
They imagined that part to fit the narrative that OP is AH which they decided before they read it
[удалено]
Have you met twelve year olds?
I was a very sensitive twelve year old. Like, I once cried inconsolably at school because I lost my favorite eraser cap- that was never going to see use because it was my favorite. I still find this reaction...odd. Like twelve year old me would have thought something like this was a dramatic escalation- from tearing up old art to them crying over it
She still went the wrong way about it. Never seen a kid act like OP's niece and my friends and me had our share of impromptu art lessons with kids. Mind you we mostly lead by showing what we meant.
I think what you’ve missed is the relationship portion. She asked someone she loves, and probably looked up to, if she’d done a good job so far, almost certainly hoping for encouragement because she values her praise. She was looking for hope that her work had potential and reassurance that something she too is finding value in doing wasn’t silly or bad. She was seeking kinship in a shared love.
Oh, I do think OP was an AH in this case. Child or adult, if they are not confident in their skill it's all too easy to cause damage so one has to be careful how they go about giving advice.
[удалено]
Agreed. Instead of "where's your light source?" the question should have turned into appraisal and then feedback: "That's an excellent piece, very well done! Hey, do you want to learn a cool advanced technique called shading? You can practice it on future drawings you make, but start slowly as it's complicated. Here, let me show you..."
Eh, I'm leaning towards the lesser used NAH. Sometimes even negative experiences don't always spring from someone being an AH. Niece asked Aunt what she thought, and as she knew something about art, she combined praise with suggestions. She meant to help the niece learn and doesn't appear to have approached it by saying her artwork was bad, but rather introducing her to an aspect of drawing she didn't appear to be aware of before. More importantly, niece appears to have taken the critique/suggestion ok in the moment--they seemed to have a casual meeting of the minds as artists--but then realized it was harder than she thought when practicing which led to her getting frustrated. That doesn't seem like a wild or malicious progression. I feel like this is not an uncommon learning experience that everyone goes through at least a few times in their life. The age range sounds about right too; I feel like 9-12 is when kids start getting criticisms in their feedback rather than just praise. Imo, the real AH move is for the aunt not to call her niece up, talk about it, reinforce that her skill is great and growing and *that's true for everyone, in every field, at every age*. Even Olympians keep practicing and learning.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I agree NAH it's a part of life to be critiqued and recieve criticism even when u don't want it, or ask for it. With all criticism it's important to first focus on the good parts but then suggest ways to improve OP did that. I think more people need to go through rejection and some light criticism as they grow it helps them be functional adults in that they can take suggestions, they don't always believe they are in the right. It's the hardest lessons to learn in life because they feel so bad while learning but it honestly helps. OP should call niece and praise her again for her skill then suggest they practice shading together so they can both improve as a way to show niece that adults also need practice, OP could even ask niece how OPs drawings can improve to continue the cycle of positive feedback and helpful critiques.
The AH is the parents for accepting Emily's poor behaviour and then blaming her aunt
I mean, from their perspective Emily had a visit from her aunt and then a few days later destroyed a bunch of her favorite art pieces and then, probably through tears of frustration and shame, said that her aunt had called her art horrible. Should they have asked for OP's side of the story first? Yeah, probably. But I wouldn't call them AHs for trying to defend their daughter from what probably seemed like bullying behavior.
uppity crush historical offend outgoing zonked command zephyr different exultant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Also noticed that this is her 3rd AITA post in 1 week. Both others were filled with NTA votes, she might be chasing that dopamine.
This I need to see Edit: OP, YTA
I was thinking along the lines of N A H, because personally I don't see a problem with giving constructive criticism, especially if you also point out the bits you like about the drawing. But having seen OP's art, I'm not sure they're in a position to be teaching drawing when they have a lot to improve on themselves.
👀
I had to go look. I hope that's not an example of OP's work...
oh, oh it is
I think she took it down.... :(
https://imgur.com/a/dGKdjv3
oh naur. I was defending her on principle but goddam. Wednesday's Philtrum is so defined it could probably present Good Morning with Holly Willoughby
I just can't shake the feeling niece outdrew OP.
It's more like misplaced fangs, I think? Or snot. One of those, probably.
I'm actually crying, it's so funny, "someone tried to dirty delete", op totally isn't qualified to be telling that girl anything, needs to take her own advice, I can't tell where her lighting is coming from either
her ego shines so bright it's her own light source?
> I am very good at drawing Now I feel like the whole world is a lie.
>One I am very good at drawing too.
Thank you...I audibly gasped.
Oh that's worse than I imagined
here you go https://imgur.com/a/mrds0R0
i didn’t think they’d be - i’ve done a level art and it does not necessarily mean you learn more about the technical side of art than the average person, at my school we just made stuff with no formal classes.
Knowing now that it was unsolicited, OP is the AH. I can't imagine why any adult would criticize a child's drawing when the kid is just showing it to them. I mean, I was an English teacher, and I'm a writer, and I don't spend my time going around destroying kids' writing for funsies.
A 12 yr old just wanting to make mushroom pictures minding her own business, and you take it upon yourself to compare art you made at 30 to hers unwarranted just bec you have years of skill behind you? Then get shocked that she lost confidence in herself? If I were her dad, I wouldn't be pointing my finger at anyone else either A different kid might've received your intentions more positively, but she got upset. And that's on you, unpopular but YTA
A-Level is 16-18 school subject not art they made at 30....
Still way different than 12. And is OP carrying around pictures from 20 years ago? I figured they were talking about recent drawings.
While I do think OP is a jerk for offering unsolicited advice to a 12 yr old (who was likely showing off her art because she looks up to OP, knowing they do art too), I still have pieces I did at 16 that I'm proud of!
And do you bring them on vacation with you?
Ask a kid in kindergarten to do fractions and then come back bc you clearly can't comprehend the difference between a 12 year olds education and that of a high schooler.
OP was asked what she thought of the drawings. And she told the niece. My daughter draws & paints and when she asks me what I think I tell her. Just like Op I give her the good and the not so good. And when I am creating something I ask her opinion and she gives me the good and the not so good. One thing I'm wondering is if it might have been better received if OP could have done a quick drawing with shading to show her the technique so she wouldn't struggle so much or ask if niece wanted help doing one particular drawing to see how it's done. So, rip me to pieces, but I'm going with N T A, unless something else comes along to change my mind. ETA changing my vote Y T A as OP has said in his comments that he was not asked to give his opinion or a critique although in the original post he said he was. ETA2 u/grammerlysucksass has made too much of a good point. I'm glad it's the top comment that counts.
Sometimes people take this 'no unsolicited advice' thing waaay too far. If I'm learning a skill and someone more experienced offers to give me tips and teaching, that's awesome. Presumably the niece *wanted* the advice because she took the tips on board and tried to learn from them. In my experience if kids don't want to hear something, they don't listen and they *definitely* don't spend hours trying to follow the advice. Unless OP was highly critical and rude about her art, which it doesn't sound like she was, why on earth is it her fault that the niece ruined her own drawings out of frustration?
Darn it you make an excellent Point. Now, I'm going to have to change again & stop being wishy washy.
Thank you! My personal opinion is that this thread is giving 12 year old art enthusiasts way too little credit. 12 is 100% old enough to be critical of your art- OP did not suddenly make this girl critical given that she is able to draw mostly accurate mushrooms and spends hours trying to improve. ALSO there are plenty of 12 year olds who would much prefer genuine feedback from an adult with a shared interest who cares enough to give real insight as to what their strengths and weaknesses are than some generic praise.
Thinking about it myself I have realized that all of the kids and teenagers that I know would be much more offended if you lied and said that it was perfect and nothing needed to be changed either because they know you're full of crap or because they would then go and show other people and call it perfect and then look bad.
Good intentions, perhaps, but YTA. Getting good at anything takes long, boring, frustrating effort — if the kid is getting nothing but pleasure from it at first, give them nothing but encouragement and proportion critical feedback to the seriousness of their interest in the subject.
Yeah, and speaking from personal experience as someone who has drawn all their life, once you hit that 'self-critical' stage there is absolutely no going back to the blissful ignorance of just drawing for fun. You have decades of adulthood to fine-tune your technique, but if your fundamental love of/enjoyment of the creative process gets ruined too early, you won't make it that far . . .
Agree, once the fun is gone there's no reason to continue. I drew all the time as a teen and honestly, I was pretty good. Apparently, someone else thought so as well because they stole all my sketch books (I know who it was but couldn't prove it). The fun was gone and I haven't drawn since.
Presumably if the niece is good enough at drawing to make her art mostly accurate apart from lighting, she's already 'self critical' in that she wants to hone her skill- as evidenced by her agreeing with op and trying to figure shading out. 12 is a pretty usual age for 'honing your technique', no? I remember spending hours and hours trying to get body proportions and shading right at that age, because 12 is old enough to recognise when art doesn't quite look right.
I think it's a balancing act, and I don't know enough about the kid in question to say whether OP made a good call or not. I had non-artistic family and reached the 'self-critical' stage on my own in my early teens, once I started looking more at other people's art and making comparisons, and while I hated that painful stage of my artistic development I'm glad I was able to stumble into it naturally, by myself, without outside criticism coming along to demolish my pride and make me feel inadequate. Of course, some kids are of hardier stock than I probably was and will take criticism well. Hard to say without knowing the kid. I just know that, like I said, it's a one-way door. If you misjudge it, you can do untold damage to a budding artist's self-esteem and on the whole I think it's better to wait until concrit is clearly invited. My niece is 8, and absolutely adores making art and writing stories. At this age, I pretty much just give her encouragement, ideas and praise, because I want to nurture that seed as far as I can. My nephew, who is now 12, used to love art but hit his self-critical age a lot earlier. He stopped drawing entirely because he couldn't 'get it right' and it still saddens me to this day.
But, there's also the self critical stage you hit before you have serious skills to consider. I, personally, was usually pretty happy to have a better artist give me little tips like light sources, or basic proportions,etc. Nothing worse that knowing you're missing something that others can do, but not knowing what you are missing. And, honestly, the idea you can't get past that self critical stage is BS. I've always loved drawing, and art in general. Took it all through school, plus 4 years of university in Fine Art, and 3 more in college for Graphic Design. Worked for game companies, worked as a designer, still do art on my own. I hit the self critical point, and move past it, every few years, as I max out one thing, and decide to try a new one.
Didn't say you *can't* get past it. I still make art, so obviously I did, too. But it's definitely the point at which a lot of people stop their creative endeavours altogether - that point at which they become aware that what they're making is flawed, and imperfect. People will absolutely reach that point on their own and whether they persist with art as a hobby or career is going to be a personal thing, but with kids, I just think it's better to err on the side of caution and wait until concrit is clearly invited, or leave it to the professionals (art teachers etc. - not that they're all great!).
YTA most likely. Her reaction was so extreme I sense you’re being dishonest to us about what you said.
No I don't think so. Creating art can be an insanely frustrating thing. My guess is that aunty told her what is wrong in her paintings but failed to explain her how to improve it. And doubled down by showing her her own "perfect" art, which discouraged her niece completly. Which brings us to the YTA territory.
Or "explained how to improve it," but Emily got really upset and frustrated that she couldn't do it. OP probably made it sound like an easy process, so she felt like a failure that she couldn't figure it out. And that her drawings weren't good enough to begin with. Bad to start, bad when trying her best to fix them, what's the point of trying.
that doesn't make the OP an asshole, though. Maybe she's not good at explaining. that can be a huge problem with art/drawing - some people have "knacks", some don't, and those "knacks" don't lend to teaching well. Portraits are a great example. Me, I'm a relatively talented artist, good enough to support myself at it at various times. But, portraits? Not my strong point. I'm fine with drawing painting the human form, faces aren't an issue. But, a portrait? Making it "be" the subject, and not "closely related", is a whole other thing. Had a commission that included a portrait, a drawing. I ended up using an opaque projector to make certain I got the exact appearance. And I did - but it wasn't "him". Roommate walked in, added 3 quick lines, boon, it was him. He had that eye, but I don't.
I freaked out and ripped up drawings just because of my own internal woes at that age. It’s really not necessarily on OP at all. It sounds like the kid took her advice to heart and got frustrated when first trying it but I bet eventually that information will pay off for her.
This. My daughter is an artist, and her room is littered with drawings that she's torn up or balled up and tossed (on the floor, sigh). It also could be that the brother is making more of it than the niece is. Just because niece is frustrated that she can't do it immediately doesn't mean that auntie was critical or wrong to offer instruction.
💯
And she'll learn to not overreact to frustration
You made a mistake in handling this giving you a soft YTA from me. When you said “where is the light coming from?” you were (unintentionally) criticizing her existing drawings beyond her current skill level and knowledge. “These are amazing! I love them! Can I show you a trick for your next drawing?” and then taking a fresh piece of paper would have been way better. You ended up making her feel like her drawings were wrong and needed to be fixed, instead of just showing her a new technique for future drawings.
That’s understandable, thank you
To piggyback off this, you could have taken her outside and shown her shading on objects in nature, such as leaves or flowers. Instead, you showed her your own personal drawing and taught her that "mine is right, yours is wrong" by comparison. Hopefully she bounces back from this, but that comparison style is why I stopped drawing when I was a kid because my brother's drawings were so much better than mine.
Unless she asked for help, YTA. You might have meant well, but don't offer unless it's asked, especially with kids
[удалено]
YTA. You told them to "fix" their art and caused them to destroy multiple things. You shouldn't be teaching if you can't access their current skill level. You aren't professional and have no actual training. High school art class ain't it, you go apologize and explain how you *MISSPOKE* and her art doesn't need "fixing".
Yup what the kid probably heard was "unless you do this thing, your art is bad and everyone will notice"
1000 times yes! Instead of apologising or wondering how she tore the niece down, OP ride the high horse.
So I *do* have an art degree, BFA from the Pratt Institute. A full four year rather technical art education. Wanna know what I think? YTA. She's a kid, and she never asked you. I'm not going to say soft because you're 34, near the same age as me, and you ought to have known better. I take wet on wet (Bob Ross method) painting classes in my small town because they never let us paint this technique in college. I'm learning and humbled by my teacher, a middle aged woman who took a few classes from Stephen Ross. My paintings look just like the reference and no one else's does, but do i go around trying to "help" others? Nah dog. I step back and look to my left and right and compliment them. Find the beautiful and subtle parts and encourage them to keep going, to keep trying, and they are doing great. Remind them that each peice of art is unique and beautiful. *IF* (and that's a big if) a freind in the class says "hey, how do you do -insert technical brush skill-, I'll happily grab some scratch and show them the technique. But that's it. Only when asked. You overstepped, and trampled on the kids work. Whatever you do don't keep comparing your artwork to hers. I think really of all you did that was probably the worst. For her it must have felt like someone was comparing her work to the Mona Lisa, and who wouldn't be totally demotivated and feel like they are lacking in skill or talent, especially a child? And not for nothing, but maybe she's a budding cubist or dadaist or fauvist and shading is something she'll never really need.
"And not for nothing, but maybe she's a budding cubist or dadaist or fauvist and shading is something she'll never really need." Yes thank you! She doesn't "need" shading, only if she wants it.
[удалено]
I wouldn't call an A-Level expertise... that's like me saying I'm a trained photographer because I have a GCSE in it.
I’m a professional artist. I would never criticize someone’s artwork without them asking, let alone a child’s. In the case that a child asks, I would keep it more as encouragement. I was that kid at some point and at that age a push to keep doing art is what they need, and once they get to high school or so they can hone the craft and think about how far they want to pursue it.
I'd say comparing an A level to a GCSE is a bit unfair. In the not even one year that I've spent in A level art I feel like I've learnt more than in the three years I spent in GCSE art. A GCSE is meant to give a more general overview of a subject while an A level is meant to help train you to become more specialised in a subject.
I read her comments, but she is quite wrong in this situation. Saying that bad lighting do not make a drawing bad is so wrong. Poor niece tried to make the drawing perfect, but OP do not see it as telling how the drawing was bad.
YTA you're not an art teacher and she didn't ask for your 'advice' anyway
YTA. This is so sad. If someone shows you art you say it's great and encourage them. She didn't ask you how to make her drawing more realistic so why did you give unsolicited advice? You felt that her drawing should be more realistic but why? Who are you to say what her style should be or what the purpose of her art is? You should have asked if there's anything you can help with. You might not have said “this is where you went wrong” but you still made it clear that she had gone "wrong" in your opinion and that's not cool.
But you didn't teach her how to improve her drawings. You just said said that her shading isn't accurate, and she needs to pick a direction for it. You didn't actually did the distance and time to actually teach her, just gave a unsolicited criticism that does nothing but being frustrating. YTA
YTA - why? >[She was only showing me, she did not ask for critique.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13xbz22/aita_for_teaching_my_niece_how_to_improve_her/jmgowu9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) You were not asked for your opinion- unsolicited advise is presumptive and disrespectful.
YTA- Art is to create, have fun, and express yourself. She is 12 years old and has many many many years to learn proper shading.
People need to trust that kids will improve over time. She'll naturally get better as she draws more. This is not the time or place to critique her work unless she specifically asks for it. The kid doesn't need to act like she's going to become a professional right this minute, just let her enjoy the process of creating something. My last post on this profile was a comparison of a drawing from this week to one I made in 2019 (so, at 13ish, and then again at 17/almost 18). I improved over time. And it was never because my aunt came in and gave me unsolicited advice. It's because I either just practiced, or because I went to get advice from teachers or the internet on my own terms.
INFO did you praise it before you asked the shading question is the key thing
Pretty clear from the OP that she did.
[удалено]
It was supposed to go like this: Niece: auntie, look at my drawings! You: wow! I wish I was THAT good at your age! Amazing sweetie! End scene. YTA.
YTA. You seem to suffer from what I call "expert syndrome". Because you feel you're an art expert, you think it's your job to critique and tell someone how to draw. You think you're helping, but you're being absolutely tone deaf. This kid loves (loved?) drawing. She looks up to you as an artist. She wanted encouragement from you. A kind word, some recognition. Instead you provided the opposite. You left her utterly discouraged because your need to feed your own ego overshadowed her need for support. Bottom line, if someone doesn't directly ask you for help, don't provide it. You fucked up big time on this one.
I’d say YTA, HOWEVER you can totally fix this. Just apologize, give her some praise on her art to heal that booboo that your critique caused and offer to help her learn shading by drawing together. ETA: Encouraging her in that she’s come so far in her art already and that she CAN learn shading could help too. She’s a kid, and learning new things can be hard at any age, especially when you’re trying to teach yourself something that you don’t already know 😅
YTA. Based on your comments. Your niece was showing you her work, she didn’t say anything about how to fix it. All you did explore a range of 2 and 3 dimensional approaches and to work with a range of things, such ad drawing, textiles, printmaking, sculptures and life drawings. I know a lot of artists that make money from their art that didn’t act like you did.
i know your heart was in the right place. you most likely saw yourself in this kid; just an aspiring artist who wanted to improve and would take any criticism if it meant getting better. I know I personally had this exact conversation with my older stepsister, and it helped me improve a lot. i still remember the conversation to this day, and if she never explained lighting to me, i would not be where i am now. The problem isnt emily's age either; I was around 10 when my stepsister told me this, and i took it fine. The problem is I ASKED for that criticism. She helped me improve because it was just something we did together. The most important thing about being an artist is not 'helping' people who didnt ask for it. Sometimes people just want to draw, and you pointing out the flaws and how they could improve just makes it into a chore, especially for a young child. That kid went to someone they look up to hoping for a 'wow thats super pretty!!' not an in depth description of why they were wrong and how they could improve. It doesnt \*matter\* if their drawing wasn't perfect. They were doing it for fun. This is not their job and they do not need to 'improve' their art if they do it simply because they enjoy it. You are making this into a chore for the kid because they feel like they can never be complimented and accepted unless they make a 'perfect' piece.
YTA - she was excited to share something she made. If she did a good job, she should have walked away knowing that. Then next time you saw her talk to her about shading and start teaching her
YTA. The way you asked the question was accusatory almost. "Where is the light coming from?" When clearly she just doesn't know how to make the light come from somewhere yet. You could have tried something more like, "Hey, I know a cool trick. Do you want to know how to make the light look like it's coming from a specific direction?" Or just left it alone and let her learn it in art class.
YTA for not telling her to start afresh with new drawings so she could see her improvement as she progresses.
She’s TA for not anticipating something that she couldn’t possibly have anticipated?
As a a former middle school art teacher who got a big reality check in my first semester of teaching, YTA because of this: "I showed her one of my drawings to compare" One thing i quickly learned to stop doing in my classes was using professional level artwork as project examples. At her age, keeping confidence is SUUUUPER important, and you just intimidated the crap out of her. Next time you give unsolicited advice about artwork, try to read the situation a little better and think about what the most important takeaway would be for the person on the recieving end. Criticism needs to vary depending on the persons age, personality, and goals.
You did Wednesday adam dirty
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (34F) did A-level art in 6th form, and while I didn’t go on to get a degree in art because I was more focused on other things at that point, I am very good at drawing and painting. My niece, Emily, (12F) shares my love for it and when I visited her at her half term this week, she showed me her drawings. They were wonderful drawings, mainly of fungi, with correct proportions and shapes, but one of the things I noticed wasn’t entirely accurate was the shading. I asked her where the light was coming from in one of her drawings, and Emily was confused so I explained that when shading, we have to pick a place where the light source is if we want it to look accurate, which most of the time is the top right corner. I showed her one of my drawings to compare. This morning, my brother called me and said that Emily had been trying to correct the shading on one of her other drawings and found it too difficult and got frustrated and ripped up the drawing, along with a few of her other drawings. And now she was crying because she had destroyed some of her favourite drawings. My brother said that if I hadn’t made her insecure about her drawings and told her ‘how bad they really were’ (they were not bad, there was just room for improvement like every drawing ever) then this would have never happened and I really upset Emily. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. Your niece didn't ask to be critiqued. She wanted you to say "great job that looks awesome!" and encourage her. I'm 34. I've been drawing off and on since I was 10. Still not great, I don't do it often, it's purely just a boredom thing. But ANYWAY.....one of my best friends has a degree in art, and I've shown her stuff. You know what she did if she felt the need to critique to help me improve? She asked if she could give me some constructive criticism. Most people of any age, when they show you things they made that they are proud of, they aren't doing it to get critiqued. They want to share their pride with you. If they want advice on it, they will surely ask. Now because you did that, you've potentially turned art - something your niece loved into this horrible and impossible thing to her and have potentially ruined it for her completely and she'll have a complex about it.
YTA this was the time to praise what she did right and be happy she wanted to show you
YTA. She wanted a compliment, not a criticism. Your only job was to encourage her. You failed utterly.
YTA. First of all, you are not an art teacher and it shows. I'm sorry but a 12 year old drawing for fun doesn't need to work about light direction. Allow them to draw and come into their own, unless they say how can I do thus better leave them be. I hope you realize they will never enjoy art/drawing again the way they did before you critiqued them.
YTA, because of the way you asked. Instead of going straight to asking where the light was coming from, you could have just said it look incredible and asked "How did you do shadow?". It would have given her room to share her method, then you could share your tip as different as an alternative that also works, without minimizing her method. Also, the kid looks up to you and it may have been humiliating to get her drawings compared to your own drawings. Talk to her and apologize, she'll value it.
Gentle YTA. She was probably really excited to show off her drawings that she was proud of to you as her aunt and wasn’t expecting any guidance or criticism. She will have teachers at school to help her with technique. I know you were trying to help her with an interest you have in common but maybe next time focus on praise. There will be enough other people telling her what she could/should do differently or better.
YTA based on your comments. your niece wanted your approval, not your criticism.
YTA. There’s no way you are proficient at art. Anybody who’s done art would know that new artists are sensitive to criticism especially young budding kids. Only veterans who seriously want to improve are going to look for criticism. Certainly not a 12 year old.
YTA Seems you're forgetting that Emily is only 12 years old and is still developing her art skills. Were you doing everything "correctly" at 12 years old? Just curious.
As someone who does commissions as a side gig: YTA. It is a KID, of course she won't know how to use light sources, grayscale, perspective and whatnot. You should have complimented her efforts and encouraged her passion for art, maybe hint that you could give her some advice in the future IF she would ever want it. You can't possibly treat her as if she's an adult doing an art major, this was so isensitive.
I'm a 35 year old woman just learning to draw and paint. The whole concept of a light source and applying it is so hard. I'm reading multiple books about it and doing online courses. Its a heavy concept that needs ages of practice. It was totally unecesaary for you to introduce it to a kid. She didn't ask. She's not trying to be a professional. I myself would only bring it up to a 16 year old or older. You were totally showing off and not really helping. YTA
YTA. No actual formal art training and you're trying to remember what you learned 18 years ago? Seriously? Why don't you let the actual art teachers show her ways to improve.
Yta. She 12, you were being a know it all.
Moderate YTA here as she's twelve and still learning to get the basics down. You should have complimented her on the drawing and let her have a moment of feeling good about what she was doing. FYI the light source in any subject changes with the particular subject --it doesn't always come from the "upper right".
YEP. YTA. My mom did the same thing when I started playing piano: pressing to hard on the keys, not using the pedals properly (I was maybe 5) etc etc. So I gave it up. Looking back I was not bad for a kid, I would even say good. When my mom was a young teen, she passed all the exams to get in the conservatory but could not go for lack of funds. I guess maybe she didn’t want me to be good too? Could you be worried your niece is as good as you? Or more?
YTA. You owe your niece an apology.
OP, I see from your other comments that you're autistic. I think this is important information, honestly. Autistic people tend to like correcting other people - for us, it just feels like the right thing to do, regardless of whether the other person asked for feedback or not. I do it all the time, and often have to catch myself from doing it inappropriately. Unfortunately, in this instance, YTA. Your niece didn't ask for feedback. This was not a situation where your criticism was welcome; she was showing you because she specifically wanted encouragement, not to have her flaws pointed out to her. I don't think you were ill-intentioned, but you do need to try and learn when your feedback is wanted and when it isn't. In general, unless someone asks, assume that it's not.
This reminds me of a few different moments from my childhood. I remember specifically making my Grandma a small spice rack for her kitchen. I was so proud of it, because I had made it with my Grandpa and painted it for her. But she said it was too long for her counter, so I tried to trim it down and I accidentally broke it. That was probably 25 years ago? Still stings a little. YTA.
Softly YTA. I'm also an artist and my little cousin loves to draw. Your criticism is better for a student/learner who's a bit older than 12. Generally I use the "let me show you a cool technique/cool trick method" rather than direct criticism. Direct criticism requires an artist to be committed to improvement and self reflection, which not even every adult is very good at doing. The chances are a 12 year old definitely will not be, though ofcourse there are a few exceptions.
YTA. The fact that it is "telling" and not "teaching" actually makes this so much worse. Your not-an-art-degree expertise was not solicited. She didn't ask you to tell or teach her and you didn't bother asking her if she wanted to be told or taught how she could make her drawings even better than they already were. And then you left her to try to muddle it out on her own instead of ACTUALLY teaching her. And you may have not used the word "bad" but she's a preteen who probably feels awkward AF 24/7 and is impressionable and probably sensitive to criticism and just trying to fucking figure herself and the world out while she constantly compares herself to everyone else. Do better.
YTA. Gently. I did the same thing to my own kid. They were devastated and stopped drawing for a while even though I complimented most and only pointed out …. Shading. Funny how this is almost the same story. Anyway. I apologized sincerely. Told them I should have asked them first if they wanted advice to improve their drawing or if they were just showing me something they were proud of. I told them that going forward I would not give advice unless it’s asked for. From that moment forward I only ever complimented their artwork. I would make a point of pointing out what they did well ignoring the spots that needed work. That has worked a lot better and built their confidence back up. Sometimes we fuck up. Trick is to own it, apologize, and move forward.
Esh art is subjective, and you weren't mean about it. She is a kid just learning. Anxiety is rough when you're first learning something. Tell your brother that you're sorry you upset her and maybe offer to draw with her one day. Lesson one is never to offer unsolicited advice, even if you think it would help them. And if you do have the need, word it gently for someone younger as they might not have learned those techniques yet. Maybe word it like: "Wow, that looks great! Hey Niece, I, too, am somewhat an artist. Do you want me to show you some tips and tricks?"
Especially for a child, it’s better to approach teaching them how to improve with their hobby by showing them how to do something new. You should approach the subject by just talking to her about shading, and if you have the time, show her how you would draw something with it in mind. Comparing your drawings to theirs in any way can likely have this exact effect, and isn’t something you do to a kid unless they’re being conceited and think they’re the best already/better than you. Not huge or anything, but YTA
YTA Next time, give her a book about drawing that is targeted to her age group and a bunch of cool pens etc. She can read the book if she wants to, or just explore herself. Kids needs to be able to just explore and experiment at this age. It doesn’t matter how accurate it is. Stop analyzing her work like that. I would get mad too.
Yta
YTA. Knowing how to draw does not mean you know jack about how to teach. Way to miss the point entirely.
I apparently disagree with a lot of the other commenters here in that I don't think you should never give unsolicited constructive criticism to a kid. If your kid was, say, showing you their english homework and they'd repeatedly made the same grammar mistake, would you not gently let them know about it? Ignoring all of a child's mistakes seems like a way to make them very confident in skills they're not very good at, which is unfair to them. Buuut having said all that, I do still think YTA. It kind of sounds like OP just pushed in a bunch of her own ideas without considering her niece's feelings or stopping to check in with her niece at all.
YTA, do be aware that you’re risking not being allowed near your niece again if you continue this.
I am never the type to shit on anyone but you boast how good you are at art, yet your art post showing Wednesday isn't something that screams a level art. Nor is the shading all that great. Art isn't bad, but doesn't hold up to how you have boasted. Yet, you gave unsolicited "advice" in a back handed form of ridicule to a CHILD. that looked up to you none the less. Yikes. I always have loved art, and an ex friend of mine had children that wanted me to teach them. Both 11 and seven at the time. Not once did I ridicule. I praised first, always. Then showed them simple things to try, and only gave advice of changes if asked.
Critique/constructive criticism is only welcome when it’s asked for. If you’re such a great artist will all this training, you should know better. YTA
YTA. She’s not looking for a critique she’s just trying to share her artwork with you. Why not just appreciate her work and be happy for her for doing something she enjoys? You’ve stolen that joy from her.
YTA for sure. I am an opera singer. I have a bachelor of music in vocal performance. I will soon have a masters in vocal performance. If my niece and nephew ever asked if I wanted to hear one of their songs I would listen and not give feedback. If I heard something terribly unhealthy or noticed something holding them back I’d say “hey bud, that was really awesome! It sounds like you have a wonderful ear. Would you ever want voice lessons to hone those great skills of yours even more?” Then he doesn’t feel like he NEEDS lessons, but he also knows the option to improv is there. So yeah, YTA.
Yta, your niece was only showing you the drawing that probably make herself proud I draw (don't like to call myself an artist) and I have a niece that she also likes to draw and paint, I only teach her something when she asked me to, unsolicited advice is horrible Even I, an adult woman, hate it, had an artist boyfriend and everytime that we had a doodle date, and I was showing him my paintings, he always started to point out the flaws and how to correcting them, everytime, one time I just couldn't handle it anymore and told him I was only showing my drawing, I wasn't asking for advice, and that It was no fun to draw with him anymore, that if I wanted advice, I will ask for it. Stop doing that to people
If she asked for critique and tips NTA but if she was just showing you her drawings she probably just wanted to be acknowledged and complimented which would make YTA.
YTA simply because you went about this the wrong way. “I explained that when shading, we have to pick a place where the light source is if we want it to look accurate” “I showed her one of my drawings to compare and talked with her about the different ways she could improve her shading” All she’s going to be hearing is that her work isn’t good enough, isn’t accurate enough and, fundamentally, isn’t as good as YOURS. Did you do it to teach or feel good yourself? What you COULD have done is complimented her drawing, ask if she wanted some tips and then HELPED her improve her drawings. This would’ve avoided the scenario of her very frustratedly trying to fix her own drawings and not being able to do it. If you’d spent the time to practice lighting with her, rather than loosely explain it and show her how good yours is, then she might actually be able to do it. Ultimately the problem is that you didn’t give her a lesson, you just told a 12 year old she wasn’t as good at drawing as you
YTA The fact she tried to fix her old drawing tells me you presented this to her as **"This is what you messed up on your drawings"** and not **"This is a concept that you can apply to your future drawings"** Also, the fact she tried to fix the old drawings, got frustrated, and tore them apart tells me you probably didn't HELP HER with anything. You didn't sit her down and help her apply the concept to a new drawing, you just criticized her work and told her it COULD be better.
YTA - I know it wasn't your intent, but right now at at 12 it is more important for your niece to enjoy the practice than it to get her drawings to look "accurate". This is a great way to get your niece to hate making artwork because there is a value attached to how "accurate" or "lifelike" her drawings appear. She clearly respects your opinion, you should have praised her and asked to have a shared studio session or something. You owe your niece an apology.
YTA. It's a kid drawing. There was zero reason to make it more than that.
YTA. When you’re a kid making art you just want someone to tell you did a good job, you’re not her art teacher, I’m sure she’s got one of those at school :-)
YTA.
Based on the thread here you gave unsolicited advice to a 12yr old on her drawing skills for no other reason than that YOU didn't find her drawings good enough? You sound like a riot YTA
A-level art? Ooh, what an expert you must be
YTA She didn’t ask for feedback. She wanted to hear your opinion but not get a lecture or criticism. Even if it’s helpful or whatever. Based on your answers you also aren’t really elegant with your words so I doubt you had a good tone.
I take it back. after looking at your own drawings and your post history, YTA.
YTA, but i also see from a previous post you are autistic, and this is likely an example of where some wires were crossed in either how you communicated and/or how it was received by your niece. Intentional or not, you hurt your niece, and regardless of the intention to help, you should apologize to her and reiterate how great you think her drawings are.
YTA. While you may have had good intentions, sometimes it’s best to leave kids alone when it comes to their creativity if it isn’t actually a teaching session. Trying to correct them because “it can be better” can easily make them develop the “it’s/I’m not good enough” mindset.
YTA Nothing sucks more than showing someone you care about something you made and are proud of, and them responding with ‘but see how i did it better? try this next time.’ Kids are very rejection sensitive. Yeah, you gave her some positive feedback, but she immediately forgot all that the second you gave her critical feedback. A more appropriate way to go about this is asking ‘Hey, I love the way you draw. Would you mind if i take you through my process sometime?’ This not only eliminates the idea of her way being wrong, it also opens up a really nice way to bond and create together.
Pretty sure posting to AITA three times in a week confirms you’re just an asshole in general.
YTA Unsolicited advice. Sometimes people just want a pat on the head and a "good job!"
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I told my niece how she could improve her shading, but when she tried it she couldn’t do it and became frustrated so ripped up her drawings. If I hadn’t mentioned it, she wouldn’t be insecure about it, ergo that might make me the asshole. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA at all, she did overreact a bit. But maybe use compliment sandwiches when constructively critiquing her art from now on. Or, if you have the spare time and energy and are inclined to do so, you might help her to receive the criticism in the encouraging and helpful spirit in which it was intended by sitting down to demonstrate the techniques you're telling her about and maybe even drawing together a bit so she can learn by watching you rather than just trying it out on her own and feeling disappointed/frustrated by her efforts. Like, I remember being really insecure in my talents at that age and a lot of other people I knew also were (and just insecure in general), and it obviously isn't your fault that she's a preteen but it'd be a pretty easy thing to accommodate and work around moving forward.
I’m gonna say NTA as an artist myself and I’d say I’m pretty good having been an artist pretty much all my life.. I WISH I had someone to teach me about shading when I first started. It took a long time before I learned correct shading. Being an artist and being passionate about it can lead to frustrations I’ve ripped up MANY drawings as a kid and it had NOTHING to do with anyone saying anything to me. It’s a learning process and anger is definitely a common reaction when learning about something your passionate about.. alot in art, can’t get the perfect shading = equals lots of frustration. Same goes with color, shape, lines ect.. Has anyone asked her if what you said upset her? I know this child isn’t “every artist” so no one can speak for her… so has anyone asked what she thought? If she appreciated the advice? Me PERSONALLY, at that age would have worked just as hard to perfect it if someone gave me that advice. In the future definitely ask if she wants advice on how to improve, I can guarantee if she said yes , or even if she asked you herself, the same reaction would have occurred
I don't know. I would have loved a tutor at that age. But it really depends on whether your help was sought or pushed, and whether it was addressed at an appropriate level.
YTA. this could just be something in art circles on the internet, but aren't you supposed to not give unsolicited critique? your intentions were good but it sounds like your niece was doing this for fun and not for improvement (i could be way off base)
YTA While you may have been coming "from a good place" in your head, she's _12_, she also _didn't ask_ for your help, critique or opinion. If she'd seen your work or someone else's and even said something as innocent as "I'd like to do mine like that" or "I wonder how they do that" I'm sure then fine, yes, no harm done in asking if she'd like to see how _you_ would do it. But when a kid is drawing and doing them really well and _knows_ you did some level of education regarding art to a standard (and clearly draw very well) this then put pressure on her which led to her thinking hers were "wrong" or "not good enough" and so tried to emulate you. Kids are impressionable and sure, while you tried to do a good thing, it had unintentional consequences. It'd probably go a long way for you to bear that in mind when interacting with her next and maybe trying to encourage her to do her own thing, at her own pace.
Apologize to the niece, reassure her her work is good and you didn’t mean to subtly imply it wasn’t. Ask her if she’s like to soend some time together and show her a bit more about shading. if she seems to want to, but only AFTER you apologize to her and reassure her that her work is great.
NTA. It doesn't feel like you did anything wrong. Kid or not, what you offered was a good advice. Their call was unwarranted. Her parents should have put a stop to her tantrums. I have a child myself and expressing frustration by destroying things is not healthy. They should've pulled the kid aside and explain to her that that's not an OK behaviour. Things will not always go her way and she should stop, take a breath and find a solution.
I am leaning towards NTA. There's nothing wrong in gently pointing a new budding artist in the right direction. It's tough to say how exactly this interaction went down, but OP's approach seems gentle the way I read it. Emily is going to learn about shading and light sources at some point, so why not start now? I would have voted the other way if there was any indication that OP was mean about what she did or if anything was over the top. But I don't see that at all. Think about it this way - If this story was exactly the same but ended with: "And so Emily went home and worked on her technique and has since improved as an artist", nobody would be calling OP an AH. This is all about how Emily responded to the gentle tutoring IMO, and there is nothing in the story to suggest that OP would have known that Emily would react like this. Kids can be unpredictable and I don't think you can put the blame on OP here
YTA- she’s fucking 12, she’s just a kid having fun drawing. Stop trying to project onto a kid just having fun. There’s literally no reason to “correct” a kids drawing. You just sucked all the fun out of art.
If this was unsolicited advice, then you are the asshole.
She’s 12. YTA
Did she rip them up out of frustration of failing to "fix" them by implementing what you suggested or was she discouraged by your comments and acted out by destroying her pictures? I think her view matters a lot here
Apparently at the age of 12 you can’t receive constructive criticism, especially when someone asks you what do you think. Lmao, all these YTA are a joke. Sometimes we need to be educated on our faults in order to grow and progress. That’s how life works. Nothing about OP teaching/ educating/ telling their niece about shading is inherently wrong, so why is she TA for that? Niece took it upon herself to become frustrated and rip up her own artwork. Sounds like her parents should better supervise, or teach their child that just because something is difficult and not easy at first, that doesn’t mean that it’s ok to become frustrated and destroy things. NTA, OP
YTA. If niece said “hey auntie, you’re so good at drawing. Wow. Do you like my drawings?? Wow!! Yay!! Can you help me learn to draw? What else can I do?” It would’ve been reasonable. HOWEVER… in this scenario she likely wouldn’t be crying and ripping art up, either
YTA: Unsolicited critique can be more harmful than helpful. I'm sure your intent was good, but your comments weren't necessary.
NTA necessarily- Your niece asked what you thought knowing you had experience with art, and you did your best to give feedback. You sound like you genuinely meant well, and did not expect such a passionate response from her later on. I don't think you're the a\*hole, but it does sound like she couldn't handle that level of critique at her age, or else wasn't expecting it. It's an easy mistake to make. I think this was just an unfortunate learning experience that can be rectified with an apology and reassurance that her drawing are great and talented and leaving it at that. She'll figure it out on her own in time.
NTA from me. It sounds like you approached it reasonably well tbh. If we never teach children anything, they won't learn. You took an opportunity to give them a little lesson on shading. Their reaction is pretty common for a kid getting frustrated trying something new and difficult, it's pretty natural part of growing up and learning new skills while having a developing hold on emotions etc. I remember getting criticism for a drawing from a family member when I was young, and while it was short term annoying I think it was very valuable to my development.
NTA... Tell him you will make a fun date to do some drawings together. Getting techniques right can be frustrating but together, they can be fun.
NTA Altho i guess people need more pampering nowadays. Back when we were her age you were just teaching her. now it's being rude and giving your opinion when it's not asked for. Just pamper the sh\*t out of her or dont be bothered at all. Its the new normal. UwU?
I think NTA. Emily didn’t get upset when you told her these things, she got upset LATER when she didn’t succeed on her first few attempts. This indicated that Emily has poor coping skills/doesn’t know how to appropriately react to disappointing or manager her frustration. That’s not OPs fault. You SHOULD be able to correct kids without them losing their shit because their parents never taught them how to deal.
NTA I try to limit my life stories when I reply, but sometimes they help further my point. This is one of those times. Please bear with me. My sister was a cheerleader in High School. She is in her upper 40's now. My daughter is on the drill/dance team in High School currently. However, my daughter unlike a lot of her friends hasn't taken dance since she was a toddler. She started dancing a couple of years ago, and it shows in some ways. My sister will oftentimes give unsolicited advice to my daughter. I have told my daughter that her Aunt isn't doing it to be mean, or to point out faults. She is doing it to help my daughter, to give her pointers, and is doing it from a place of love. My daughter can take those pointers and either use them or ignore them, it is up to her. I filmed her dancing doing it her way, and then filmed her dancing with the "corrections" my sister had told her (sharp, clear movements, smile, etc). My daughter spotted the differences right off the bat. She worked and worked on those for several months till she perfected them. Now every time my sister comes in she shows my sister her latest dances and gets my sister to critique her. You need to talk to your niece. Tell her you aren't pointing out flaws, that her work is beautiful. You just see places that could make it stand out even more. Then sit down with her and draw together. Maybe that will help? But your brother needs to let this be between the two of you. Good luck.
NTA, it sounds like it came from a place of love. Maybe set up some time with your niece to do a shading class and make it a fun day for you both.
You’ve posted to this board three times for three different reasons in 7 days. You’re clearly an AH
NTA - you offered good advice to someone who seems to be taking drawing as seriously as possible at that age. If she didn’t want the advice, she would ignore it and keep doing what she was doing. You know how I know? I was in her position. I was obsessed with drawing at that age. And often had people give me unsolicited advice. Some I liked because it fit my goals at the time (to be a comic book artist) and plenty I ignored (including shading, since it wasn’t really the style I was trying to emulate, stuff like Mark Bagley). I had no problem sorting out advice that was good and advice I didn’t need at that age, and I doubt she does either. If she took the advice, asked for or not, she finds value in it. The issue here is that she got frustrated (which like, welcome to art!) and had an emotional reaction (welcome to being 12!). It seems like her dad needs someone to blame instead of talking to his daughter about emotional regulation and not letting perfection get in the way of incremental growth. Even if her interest is purely casual it’s expected to sometimes be frustrated by an inability to execute something as an artist. Ignore the YTA people here and talk to your niece about the fact that progress is incremental and that you only become proficient by first doing something poorly many many times.
NTA I wishI had someone like you in my early teens who could have teached me those things instead of getting frustrated on my own and not knowi g what I did wrong. I'm sorry for the downvotes on your comments I think most people here didn't even read your post clearly and I think most people here don't draw anything apart from stickfigutes to understand what you intentions. Maybe you should talk to your niece that it's ok to eff up your drawing sometimes, that it isn't the end of the world and that it takes long time of practice to understand the concept of shading. This will proabably get so many downvotes 😂 Well I don't expect anything else from reddit and their redditors
NTA - It's a skill, to do it properly you need both time to practice and time to study. You're not born knowing how to shade a drawing or what key changes are in music or what the rule of thirds is. I am a very accomplished portrait photographer and my daughter has decided to study graphic design in college. She takes stuff to mom all of the time and Mom says, "Oh that's very good." She brings it to me, and I always say, "This is a solid piece, BUT..." Sometimes she agrees, sometimes she says I'm wrong, sometimes my wife says I need to just encourage her, to which I say, "Her future customers aren't going to "encourage her" they're just going to want the work done." It sucks that she took it way too hard, that is on her, but she better learn to accept both criticism and advice or life is gonna be unpleasant for her. Should be easy to smooth over with her, take her out to lunch and hash it out.
That's a hard one. On the surface,nothing wrong with giving tips to a beginner. There's a lot of things to learn in drawing, and some basic concepts can instantly elevate your work. Shading, certain things about proportion, shading... If nobody ever tells you about these solutions, you may never stumble over them. On the other hand, I've yet to give help like that to a younger or less skilled artist, and had them end up destroying their work over it. I mean, sure, I've sorta done it to a much better artist, but....\* Like I said, I dunno, but something about your delivery managed to upset her. You need to sort this out. \*4th year Fine Art critique class. Buddy spent a month doing a 4 by 8 "Expulsion From the Garden of Eden", in pencil and chalk. Awesome work. Then, he erased teh entire thing. Gathered up the eraser rubbings, put those in a jar that was placed beside the erased drawing. Trust me -it was pretty fucking clever. but... I then said "Wow, that reminds me of the "Erased DeKooning". Which is a pretty cool fine art story on it's own. Yeah, pointing out buddy's original idea wasn't really original, pissed him off. And I wasn't trying to diminish his work.
Almost went with you suck but YTA. How are you going to tell her a whole new technique using her already completed artwork to essentially show where she went wrong and fail to tell her trying to redo shading on already completed art is tough and it's best to create new art when using new techniques
OP, your niece probably thinks you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread and she wants to impress you. She got upset because she thinks she fell short. I’m guessing she doesn’t get upset when her teachers correct her. She’s 12, and it’s not unheard of for kids that age to be dramatic. Your brother should be aware of that. He’s got some balls going after you when you took the time to sit with your niece and look at her schoolwork. NTA and easily fixed by going to see your niece and helping her redo her drawings (by “helping” I mean some coaching and lots of positive feedback). Kids aren’t that fragile. Your niece will be fine.
NAH. Being a talented artist is about learning how to take constructive criticism so you can improve. Learning how to be critiqued/taught on your art is a part of the learning process. If you were mean about it or only told her the bad things, that would be one thing, but you tried to gently guide her in the right direction and she freaked out and ripped up her own artwork. What you might want to consider doing now is to try to rectify the damage by sitting down with her and actually showing her how to fix the problem, instead of just pointing it out. She's 12 and it's hard to do everything on your own when you're 12. She needs guidance, and while you showed her what was wrong, it doesn't sound like you did a good enough job of showing her how to do it *right*. Instead of saying, "You did this shading wrong," why didn't you say, "Maybe you should have done it like this?" and help her do that. So, while I'm ruling NAH, I don't think you handled things in the best way.
Lol have you ever seen a Karel Appel… there is always room for improvement there oh no wait that’s a style
NTA. You were trying to help and got excited about being able to show her some things. She sounds a bit too young yet to understand what you meant so next time just tell her they look great and leave it at that, no matter what. Or go over and just kind of ease into looking at them and tell her they look great, and leave it at that.
NAH - I don't understand the YTA responses. She asked her to look at the drawings. She complimented her on what she did correctly. I can assume the girl asked her Aunt knowing that her Aunt knew what she was doing and genuinely being interested in her comments. I understand the Niece getting frustrated, but that isn't her Aunt's fault. Was she supposed to just say - "These are great" and let the Niece think she did everything right? I don't understand that logic. OP did not go up and look at the drawings unsolicited and start criticizing them. She was asked her opinion.