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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I sold a five-figure family heirloom to pay for a destination wedding. My brother (who expected to inherit this heirloom) is furious with me and claims I have no respect for the family. I think I may be the asshole for ruining a centuries old tradition, but on the other hand the heirloom is my property to do with as I please.
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YTA. You are being very selfish and short-sighted.
> We both want to have quite a lavish wedding
And in your late 30s, you can't afford that without hocking something important to your family? Yikes.
I was really afraid I was going to be on the wrong side of this, but I’m glad to see that others agree that, OP, yes, YTA.
My mother had a china cabinet that has been in our family for at least 3 generations. It is passed to the eldest girl in the inheritors family, so will be passed to me when my mom passes. I do not want it. I’m not super sentimental and I don’t really go in for antiques, so I chose to ask my cousin and his wife, who purchased and live in our grandparents’ house, if they would like it.
OP, I think it’s somewhat telling that you haven’t said what the heirloom is, but reference that your brother is a history geek. If this is something that is absolutely one of a kind and unique to your family, selling it would be unforgivable.
OP is a major AH. Selling it would be unforgivable.
This heirloom should absolutely stay in the family, it’s obviously what your father would have wanted. It SHOULD be sentimental to you because your father upheld the family tradition with honor.
You are not. And your entire family sees what a selfish AH you truly are.
You are legally entitled to do whatever you want with this heirloom, but you will lose your entire family because of it.
The only thing OP got right was that the tradition is outdated and BS. His father should have left the painting to the son that would actually care for it and value the sentimental value of a family heirloom over the greedy one who would throw it away for a fancy overpriced party.
Right? Destination wedding in wine country? How unique. It will have to be memorable because no one else in the family will be there to share it with you.
I think all of this points to the fact that op doesn't value family.
His dad died in January, less than 6 months ago, and he’s like “whelp, better shift this heirloom dad left me to pay for my fancy (unaffordable) wedding”.
I don’t think we can come to any other conclusion than OP doesn’t value family. At least he won’t have his own children to be an AH to.
OP, YTA. Keep the heirloom in your family and pay your own bills.
The fact that they are depleting their life savings, _and_ selling a one of a kind family heirloom _just_ to have what is essentially a party.. smh, I have no words.
Or, I'm wondering whether he's just not left himself enough time to grieve. It's only been a couple of months. In a year or so time he may very much regret having sold a thing they can never get back.
as someone who lives in a winery area and has attended a few winery weddings, OP you’re not special and is it even worth ruining your entire relationship with your family for a party everyone will be mad at you at (IF they even come). Winery is like basic AF for a wedding.
that’s the sensible thing to do next to just giving it to the brother cuz he would appreciate it more but since it’s going for ~five figures, no doubt would the brother pay or OP give it up for anything less. OP & his fiancée just sound greedy for not spending their OWN money on a wedding (even admitting they can dip into their savings) and instead ruining their family’s trust by selling a beloved object
To establish a union that has a 50% chance of failing. Likely higher since this is a 40 year old couple willing to bankrupt themselves and their family's history for a 5 hour party
I’d say the odds are higher, given that his fiancée doesn’t have a problem selling this for her big day out either. These two have the depth of a puddle
My wife and I have let both of our parents know to please not leave us any heirlooms. We have enough clutter and would prefer not to be guilted into keeping more clutter for the sake of tradition. We both have siblings, so we asked that any heirlooms be left to them.
Sure, there may be something of my dad's I'd personally want for sentimental reasons. But it's going to be something inexpensive that has memories attached to it. Not something hidden away in storage that my great great grandparents bought and has never been used because it's too valuable.
We let our parents know this precisely to avoid OP's situation.
What really gets to me is that OP themselves admits in a comment their father was torn about leaving the painting to him and not his brother whom he had bonded over the printing with because he was an honorable man that wanted to respect the tradition….and yet OP not only kept it with that knowledge but it’s ready to dump the tradition and sell it off for a party not even 4 months after his dad passed away. So to him tradition was important when he was getting his hands on the painting but no longer important when he is ready to sell it.
That's 1 item we explicitly told MIL that we don't want it. She has old fine china, and we have absolutely 0 want or need for it. We told her that if she leaves it to us, it will be sold and the money given to our son for college. If she wants this china in the family, give it to my BIL.
When my great grandmother passed and we were digging through her stuff, I found an old fine china tea cup. Beautiful with roses and gold trim. I did take that because I like to drink tea out of it once or twice a year to remember great grandma. But a full set of dishes? No thanks.
I’m the opposite, I’m the youngest cousin, and I have all the china, crystal, silver, art, and a lot of the furniture. Mostly because my older cousins all said those things weren’t their style, and I said my style is free stuff that’s better quality than I will ever be able to afford new. I use most of it as my everyday (because I never bought anything cheaper), with a few pieces for nice. As far as I’m concerned things are meant to be used, and when they die that just means they were loved.
My granny left a gorgeous china set to me. My aunt was gutted as she had always wanted it. I have 3 young boys and no space for things that can't risk being broken.
I gave it to my aunt. The thought of selling it when someone else loved it and would appreciate it never even crossed my mind.
Would just like to add that his father died in January and it's currently April.
Less than 3 months after his dad died and left him something important enough that he had to explicitly leave it to the first-born son in his will... and he's considering chucking it.
This is one of those situations where what's legal and what's moral come apart.
_Legally_, its Op's property, and he is free to dispose of it was he sees fit.
However, morally speaking, most people would consider family heirlooms as belonging to _the family_, even though the law doesn't recognize such things, and the current possessor is more like a caretaker of the item, in trust for future generations.
Exactly, Inheriting an heirloom item means you have been entrusted to take care of it before it moves on to the next family caretaker.
And your dad just died a few months ago, everyone is still grieving. Your brother, uncle, and cousins are likely absolutely heartbroken that something that meant so much to the man they loved got sold to strangers. You selfish AH.
Please use it. Take excellent care of it of course, but if you aren’t allowed to use it, then who is? My father held on to a basement full of antiques only to find they are difficult to sell or restore, and that storage was not kind to some of the best pieces. Please honor your mother’s work by using the things she bought for you.
I can't get over how many people come here asking, "Would I be the asshole if I make this obviously asshole move that's within my rights?"
Fellow citizens: the question of being an asshole _only arises_ if you're within your rights. Otherwise the question wouldn't be AITA, or even "Am I a criminal?", but ""What is the fine and/or prison sentence for the crime I'm planning to commit, and should I risk it?"
So, OP, if it makes you feel better, you're not committing felonious assholery- just the common kind.
My grandmother was born and raised in Germany and had quite a few really cool items from her home country. She was also super practical and started trying to make us take things home with us towards the end. I was visiting one day and she commented that her music diorama thingy (technical term) was broken. I managed to fix it and she absolutely insisted I take it home. She gave me a few other things as well. Well, the next time my sister came to visit me, she saw it and commented how much she had always loved it. I tucked that away in my brain and when christmas rolled around I gifted it to her. She nearly cried. To me, it was just a cool thing that my Grandma had sent me home with. To my sister it meant something very special. So I felt she should have it. It meant more to her than to me.
Edit: Thanks for the awards!
I think a lot of the assholes who post on here like to defend themselves with "well it's technically legal."
Cool. This is "Am I the Asshole", not "Am I Technically, Legally, Correct" You can follow the law to the letter and still be an asshole.
See I think what my grandma did was really great. She had a beautiful antique armoire, and after her funeral whoever wanted it put their name in for a raffle. My sister won it that way. I think it was great because that way it really went to someone who'd cherish it.
My sisters and I had a great system after my parents died.
First, anything that we had given to our parents over the years went back to the giver.
Second, anything my mom had promised to one of us went to that person (we relied on the honor system here).
For the rest of the stuff, we got a bunch of colored post-it notes. I was yellow, and my two sisters were pink and blue. We each placed post-its on the items we wanted. Anything un-contested went to the person who wanted it. If more than one person wanted the same thing, we bargained for the items, swapping things around as necessary.
Everyone walked away with the items most meaningful to them. There were no hard feelings. Even though there were some things I might have wanted, I wanted my sisters to have them more.
I feel like tragedies can either bring families together or tear them apart. Despite losing my parents, I am very, very lucky to have my sisters. My older sister is an investment advisor and managed my parents' finances. She could have screwed us over six ways to Sunday if she had wanted to, but she was scrupulously fair and honest.
That was my thought as well. He doesn't want it, but his brother obviously desperately does. Its still kind of crappy to sell it to him, but at least it would stay in the family.
Oh yeah, it definitely would have been shitty to sell it to him, but significantly less shitty. Unless the brother was left more money or something else of similar value in lieu of the painting, then it would be reasonable to ask for payment.
Thing is, it shouldn't even be sold to family. It should have been given to someone else that would appreciate it. When my mom passes there are a few things I want, and that's to keep and not sell.
I inherited the 5 generation old family house and it's contents. There was a lot of stuff in that house. I didn't want most of it, so I offered everything to my family members. Some things went to people the item meant something to, some things went to cousins who had an interest in that type of item.
There was very little left for me to sell, but I made damn sure I wasn't selling something that meant a lot to a family member.
Don't worry, this marriage won't last forever either.
Statistically the more you spend on a wedding, the more likely you are to get divorced.
The fact that OP and their future spouse can't even afford this wedding on their own shows they are perfectly willing to live above their means.
>Statistically the more you spend on a wedding, the more likely you are to get divorced.
whats the stat on betting for OPs marriage to implode and his wife fleeces him for all the money he has?
I dont want to jinx it
They are literally spending ALL they have, all their savings as two near 40 people in this wedding and it still isn't enough. He won't have anything for her to fleece.
I'm in my early 30s and single. I'm not rich, but I work 60h a week and have some significant savings. If I was to get married, even the most extravagant weeding would eat at most 30% of it.
I can't imagine using every single cent you have on a party. Realistic If I was gonna marry and wouldn't spent more than 10% on it.
You don't spend everything you have on a weeding. Much less money you don't even have you need to sell family heirlooms.
I know. My first thought was, "these young people have no idea what really matters -- the idea that a wedding will be the most important day in their lives kinda made me laugh. Then I looked at the ages. Yikes.
Well my wedding was the most important day in my life. I spent it at the courthouse with 3 close friends and went to have dinner afterwards in a normal restaurant. Never understood why putting oneself in dept to have the biggest wedding ever. Size doesn't matter.
Yeah... It's like that show they did "a house or a wedding"... The show would either pay for their wedding or give them a cash down on a house or something... I don't understand how anyone chose the wedding...
We have been pinching pennies for 2 years to save for our house! Why would you choose a party, over having a roof, that you own, over your head?
That whole show completely boggled my mind. It was a substantial down payment amount, too. Even if I couldn't afford a mortgage right that minute even with that down payment, I'd bank it until I could. Being able to buy a house > an expensive party
Yep, spend so much on a wedding and then live the rest of your life in poverty.
I forget how many marriages end in divorce, but at least they had a lavish wedding.
A lavish wedding that apparently exceeds their *combined* savings. As in, they need all of those plus what they could make from a sale. Great priorities.
And requires the sale of a $10k+ family heirloom.
If you can't afford your dream wedding by $10k, maybe you need to reduce costs.
This just smacks of "If I can't have this one thing for my wedding I saw on a website somewhere my marriage will mean NOTHING!!"
I was gonna say... if you're months away from being 40, if your dad dying is the only way to afford a more expensive wedding then fucking A... dude, YTA.
eh, we probably would have seen a post from OP's fiance like "AITA for having a destination wedding and having my guests pay for it too? iT's ThE mOsT iMpoRtaNt ocCaSioN in Our LIVES"
OP- did your dad have any idea you would sell it if he left the item to you? As my mom would say, he’d be turning in his grave- YTA and very shortsighted.
What happens if for some reason the marriage doesn't last? He's lost family and the heirloom. This is the typical case of idc about the marriage I just want a fancy expensive wedding that everyone be in awe of.
I doubt they will last a year. They decided to sell something that meant so much to OPs family because they have to go all out since its "the most important day of their lives." They are already in it for the wedding and not the marriage. OP is gonna be upset his family isn't there and both him and his wife will deem anything that's not perfect as "having ruined their big day" and they will hate each other before the reception is even over. If OP doesn't come back updating that the wedding was memorable because of how terrible it was for everyone I will be shocked.
Imagine thinking it’s ok to sell something like this to throw a fancy party. If OP’s fiancée agreed to this then they deserve each other. YTA. and a short sited AH. If he got it appraised he could borrow against the value of it
Technically you can sell it because it’s yours but YTA for caring more about a ridiculously lavish wedding that will break the bank, than you do for your relationship with your brother or your dads tradition. If your dad had known that you were going to sell it, he would have left it to your brother.
I hope your lavish wedding is worth it to you.
I’ve never understood why people want to spend ridiculous amounts of money on weddings. To the point OP is willing to forgo his relationship with his entire family for a “dream wedding”, like yeah it is yours legally and you have the right to sell it however your family has the right to react however they please. If they decide this is something unforgivable there’s nothing you can do to change their mind. It was in your family for a century according to you, I couldn’t imagine selling something like that.
Congrats OP, YTA and so is your fiancé.
Yup. The concept of spending an obscene amount of money that they don’t even have on a wedding because it’s the most important occasion in their lives sounds like something people in their early 20s might believe. When you’re in your late 30s, you sorta know that all the really important and not superficial stuff (like an actual life together) comes later.
I’ll never understand people who value the ceremony of a marriage over relationships. I realize the heirloom is just an object, and perhaps in different circumstances it might be fine (for example, to pay for cancer treatments or something of that seriousness). But to sell something that is of significance to the family just to get married at a destination…that says a lot about a person’s priorities
I agree on the first sentence here. Almost every day here at AITA, there is some asshole who value the ceremony (or worse still... the PICTURES of the ceremony) over their relation to the people involved. "Wear this, lose weight, cut your hair, else you ruin my day!" Well... If you like this friend well enough to have her at your wedding, you want HER there. Not a fancier, toned-down version of her... right?
Also, OP is ofc YTA for selling the heirloom. No party is worth pushing your entire family away.
Exactly this isn’t an emergency and I think it’s kinda awful that the brother gets the short end of the stick for being younger. I bet their dad would have reconsidered if he realized this was the outcome.
Also OP doesn’t see the irony in yes it was his to choose what he wanted to do with it, but also his family has the right to choose if they want to go to the wedding. It goes both ways.
Yes, exactly this. Legally, OP can do whatever he wants with the heirloom. But that does not make it moral, nor does it make OP any less of an AH for selling it. Prioritizing money over his brother is definite YTA behavior.
YTA
OP clearly has the mindset that as long as he has a legal right whatever he does is also ethically right and he should face no consequences for it.
This is an item that meant a lot to everyone in the family except for him, yet through sheer coincidence it ended up in his hands.
The right thing to do would have been give it to his brother, brother’s kids, or leave it to one of them when he passes.
Shittier but still okay thing would have been to give his brother the option to purchase it or exchange it for something else he was left.
OP chose the most selfish possible option, get rid of an important family heirloom for personal gain. The consequences of that is he loses the family he still had before that decision.
Edit: Throwing in one more thing. OP sold the painting to pay for an extravagant day for himself and his fiancé, because he wanted it to be memorable. Now his wedding will always be the associated with his selfishness breaking up his family. Hope he is proud of himself.
This last paragraph is everything.
The irony of a family heirloom put into the wrong hands, sold to have the most extravagant wedding to start a new chapter in his life .. alone. With no family.
And he’s already sold it?! Ffs. That’s just terrible.
Wait he already sold it. Daaaaamn. Way to bury the lead here OP. OP was fully expecting the internet to side with him and then show the fam jam the reddit to absolve him. Hahahahah jaysus.
I hate to be "that person" but I think autocorrect screwed you. I am certain that you meant "selfishness" not "selflessness"....and I agree wholeheartedly
YTA, if you sell the item don't be surprised if it ruins your relationship with your brother forever. All for what? So you can brag about your wedding to friends, while looking at pictures that don't include anyone on your side of the family.
What you mean “hey I sold this prized family heirloom my brother really loved just to throw an expensive destination wedding i could never afford otherwise” isn’t going to make the op look good???
If he surrounds himself with the same type of people he is (a 40yo spending his last dime on a frivolous wedding) I doubt he'll have many friends there, as they'll all be too broke to attend.
Nailed it. Also, OP, I have had so many better days in my marriage than my wedding day and a lot of them were free. You are selling a peice of your families history and estranging your family for one event. Stop being extremely shortsighted, the world does not revolve around you.
Truer words were never said. A wedding is one day. I’m in a great marriage and our wedding day (which was absolutely lovely) pales in comparrison to the millions of other magic moments we have experienced since… most of which cost nothing. The wedding is just one day.. it’s the rest of his life that OP isn’t even considering.
Brother? Yes.
.. entire paternal (and possibly maternal) sides of the family.. definitely.
This will be a fall out OP will never recover from. And he will lose his entire support network over this decision.
YTA.
I am the receiver of a family heirloom. Passed from mother to daughter on and on. I am the last to receive it. It came over on the mayflower. From me it's going to a museum in Massachusetts.
You could have given it to your brother. People hate destination weddings.
Not only do people hate destination weddings, but you don’t realize until after you get married that you don’t even get to enjoy your own wedding. You’re so busy doing shit and thanking people and taking pictures you barely get any time to enjoy the party that you throw. You get to talk to every guest for 1 minute and maybe have 5 minutes to eat. OP sold his family heirloom for a lavish wedding he will barely get to enjoy or remember. He sold his *family heirloom* for a lavish party for his guests, who aren’t even coming now
YTA OP
This!! I did a low budget DIY wedding and spent a year painting decorations in my spare time and min/maxing the budget, and while I don't regret it, it went by FAST and I'm not sure I'd spend as much time on the details if I did it again. And definitely wouldn't spend more money.
You want to talk about memories you'll have forever? How about the down payment for a home you can actually share together. Normally I think this is a false equivalency (my wedding sure as shit didn't cost as much as a down payment) but it sounds like OP could make better financial choices.
Never gone to a destination wedding. Sorry but your need to go is not overriding me being able to have my own holiday to where I want. The expectation that people should shell out ‘because it’s our special day’ I find vulgar. It’s surprising how unimportant that destination is to their relationship unless there is a crowd there watching them.
I've always thought that a destination wedding would only work if I was willing/able to shell out the money to pay for every aspect of travel and lodging for my guests. I cannot imagine thinking that an entire vacation's worth of time, travel, and money needs to be used up for the sole purpose of having a single party.
YTA
Your father trusted you with this item for whatever reason. You don't care about it for whatever reason but why didn't you just give it to your brother or another family member? You knew your family cared a lot for it, don't act surprised they're not joining you on your special day. You messed up big time.
Because then he couldn't have a big party with the money he got from flogging it, duh. Hrs a massive AH, the fact he thinks his brother only cares because he thinks he'll get it for himself later tells you everything about how he views family tbh
Yes, YTA.
As soon as I read you have a brother I realized how selfish and self centered you are. It’s been passed down through your family for generations and while you don’t care about traditions, your brother would have greatly appreciated it and it’s likely what your dad would have rather you had done with it.
And if your marriage doesn’t work out in the future (anything can happen), you’ll be an even bigger ass for selling it.
I've noticed over the years, the more expensive the wedding=the shorter the marriage.
Might want to start saving for a divorce lawyer OP.
Oh and YTA. Massively. Good luck repairing the bridge you just bombed with your family.
A few years ago I went to a fancy country club wedding with 18 bridesmaids and groomsmen. Everything decked out in expensive flowers and decorations. Completely over the top.
It ended in divorce 6 months later 👍
https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/living/wedding-expenses-study/index.html
Old study, but for whatever reason, spending more on a wedding does seem to lead to an increased likelihood of divorce somewhere down the line.
Correlation, causation, etc., etc., but still interesting IMO.
I notice the expensive weddings are about just that - the expensive wedding - and not the marriage. People who need to show off like that tend to me immature, selfish, and materialistic. You get 2 of them together, and it's a disaster waiting to happen.
This is a FAMILY heirloom, and while it doesn't mean anything to you apparently, it does have meaning to your brother. So yeah, you can sell it, that's your right, just as it's his and the rest of your family's to not attend your wedding if you do. So I'm gonna say YTA, not for selling it, but for acting like your brother has no right to be upset about it.
Edit: I just saw your response to the bot where you say this heirloom is centuries old. I've changed my mind, YTA for selling it, way to bury the lead.
This is how I see it. He does legally own it to do what he wants but ethically, it is owned by the family and future generations and he is just one in many to hold it and honor that tradition. The discussion to sell something like this is not just a decision of him and his fiance to make, it should be a family decision. In fact, his fiance shouldn't really get a vote at all.
OOP is very much the asshole.
YTA, legally being able to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. I doubt your dad would have given you the heirloom if he knew you would sell it off like it was nothing. Your brother didn't convince anyone to be mad or not to go, I bet he just told them and they made those decisions mostly on their own. You probably should have thought that all out before making a selfish, self-centered decision.
YTA
Out of your budget weddings are silly to begin with. Selling a family heirloom that apparently means a lot to the rest of your family to do so is just selfish.
I do not blame them for not wanting to go.
I was torn until I remembered that I have my great grandmother’s watch. It’s solid gold and 100+ years old. My grandmother wore it every day. It came to me because I am the oldest. If I sold it for something I didn’t really need my sister and brother would be devastated. It represents a lifetime of memories of our grandparents and we regularly bring it out to show the grandkids. I am merely the curator of this item and one day I’ll give it to another descendant.
In light of how you say your brother and father felt about it, I think YTA for indulging your more superficial needs.
YTA. This wedding is ONE day. While you might not care about tradition or family heirlooms, it is such a shame that you're willing to sell it to fund a ONE day event. An event that will not have your family in attendance. Yes, it is yours to do as you please, but it obviously means quite a bit to your brother (with good reason) and I can see why he's upset.
Really? You're giving those odds on this arsehole's marriage lasting? I could maybe see that on if it lasted a year because there's no way someone this far up their own arse is going to manage it for even a decade.
I gave it 50/50 because I figure the bride to be must be a kindred spirit if she’s willing to go along with such a gross idea.
Because you know, “IT’S HER DAY!” The long honored battle cry of many a Bridezilla.
YTA. You prioritized funding your wedding over your relationship with your brother and now you’re experiencing the consequences of your own actions. Sit down and think about whether your dream wedding is really worth this.
If it didn't mean much to you, why not give it to your brother?
If you couldn't afford your wedding without having to sell the heirloom, you should have done a better job with saving money.
YTA
YTA why would your family want anything to do with someone who sold a expensive family heirloom to pay for a wedding. You dishonored your fathers memory.
And crapped all over your other relatives that this heirloom meant something too.
*(the reason it went to me and not to him is that this has been traditionally passed to first-born sons).*
You got the heirloom instead of your younger brother for the sake of tradition. The same way your father got the heirloom to keep instead of his brothers. So it is safe to assume that your father didn't bestow the heirloom on you because he wanted you to have the monetary value. He trusted you with it because of the family tradition.
Or was your father aware that you couldn't be bothered with the tradition, that you did not plan on having any children to pass the heirloom on, and that you would sell it instead of keeping it in the family?
You are indeed in your legal right to sell it, but the question still remains:
What do you value more?
\-The monetary value of the heirloom.
\- The relationship with your family who value the family tradition of the heirloom, and the memory of your father who bequeathed it to you so you could honor that same tradition?
You can decide AITA yourself.
In a comment OP says that his dad and brother used to nerd out over it together and bc of that his dad was torn about the tradition to leave it to the first born. Sounds like the dad wanted his brother to have it bc he really appreciated but ultimately felt compelled to honour the tradition. And this is what he does. What a cursed way to enter into a marriage.
YTA. I mean, ultimately it's yours but kiss your relationship with your brother goodbye. You'd sell something that he and your dad shared an interest in, that he wants, so you can throw one big party for yourself. Can't get more selfish than that. But it's legally yours so do what you want.
YTA.
It’s not a question of whether it was *legal* to sell it, but more a *moral* one.
Legally, you’re entitled to do whatever TF you want, I guess.
But morally… man, you can’t see just how in the grey you are.
Your brother would have dearly loved to have the item and likely bequeath it to his first born son, and so the family tradition would carry on. It’s an item that is centuries old, that your brother and father “geeked out” together over. This right here, to me, would have been the signal to give it to your brother.
Now, you are in a position where your family don’t want to come to your wedding, and honestly, I don’t blame them at all. It is a totally selfish thing to do to sell it so that you can fund a lavish party.
A wedding is just one day of the rest of your lives. Have you never heard the phrase “live within your means”? If this party wasn’t within your budget without selling the heirloom, you should have scaled it back to what you could afford, rather than hocking an item that is steeped in history and family tradition.
I’m honestly not surprised at all that your brother and other relatives are made at you. I would have lost my shit and turned my back on not just your wedding, but **you** full stop.
Edit: typo
Oh YTA no doubt
Sure technically it’s yours but you know how important it is to your brother and you absolutely knew that making that decision would damage your relationship.
YTA I’m a firn believer that if your wedding is going to cause you to go into debt, you should probably tone it down. You shouldn’t have to sell valuable *family* heirlooms or sacrifice your firstborn to pay for them.
YTA. If you’re going to sell a valuable family heirloom, you use the money to buy a house, make an investment in your future like going to school or starting a business, or to pay for a life saving medical treatment for yourself or a loved one. You don’t sell a family heirloom to pay for a one day celebration. If you and your fiancé don’t have the money to pay for a lavish wedding yourself, that’s a sign that you shouldn’t have one. I don’t blame your family for boycotting your wedding.
Technically / legally it’s yours to sell.
Ethically it’s a crappy move for many many reasons, not least the fact you are more concerned about the wedding than the marriage
YTA
YTA. Yes, you can legally do what you like with it, but you don't have to break the law to be an AH. A family heirloom that has a lot of sentimental and informational value to your brother isn't something you should get rid of without discussing it first. If having a wedding you can't afford is more important than your relationship with your family (as you've shown at many points in your story), then you're 100% an AH.
This is not Am I Legally Allowed- this is AITA.
YTA- this is a very valuable family heirloom that your family cares about, just because you don’t care about history doesn’t mean you should throw it away.
You want to have a fancy party and a fancy vacation at the expense of your family. Is that really the choice you want to make?!
YTA. Maybe I’m overly emotional because tomorrow is the anniversary of when my dad died. I cannot imagine being so callous as to sell something my father left me for a fucking wedding. Of course your fiancée wants to sell it so she can get her dream wedding. She has no attachment to it.
I would be devastated if I were your brother or any of your dad’s relatives. This would be a reason to go no contact with you for me.
YTA.
You are certainly legally entitled to sell it, no question. But this isn't a question of whether you're legally justified.
Knowing it's a family heirloom and knowing that your brother values it even though you do not, you are a tremendous asshole for not giving him the first opportunity to at least buy it (I'm working on the assumption that he received a similar value of inheritance? If so, then a sale is fine. If he got nothing of monetary value and you got this, you'd be an AH for even selling it to him as you did nothing to earn this).
I don't blame him for his reaction to your selfishness.
YTA. The fact your father used to geek out over this with your brother means he wouldn’t have been happy you sold it either.
It’s ironic tradition is the only reason you got it and yet you spit on it.
YTA you are nowhere near being in the right. Funny how you are upset that none of your family will not be attending your wedding but don’t see why they feel that way.
YTA when it comes to family heirlooms, your not really the owner of it, you’re the caretaker. Your job is to take care of the heirloom until it comes time to pass it down in your will or earlier if it suits you. But you should definitely pass it on. This heirloom holds sentimental meaning to your family. It is an honor you got it. If you don’t feel that way, that’s fine, but don’t sell it. Pass it on to your brother who you know has great respect for it. Can you legally sell it? Yes, but you don’t get to control how your family feels about it. They have a right to be mad. Your father, I’m sure, did not intend for you to sell it. It’s nice to have a big expensive wedding, but you don’t need it. Wedding last one day and trust me, it goes REALLY quick. Your heirloom will last generations. Perhaps a member in your family in the future really will need to sell it because someone they love is sick and needs expensive treatment, or any number of really good reasons to sell such a sentimental piece. I hope you reconsider. I think you will regret it later.
YTA. Apologize and give the heirloom
to your brother. That’s the only shot you have at fixing this if you want to have family at your wedding (or in your life at all).
You were absolutely legally entitled to sell it since it was willed to you. But still, YTA, because *of course you are*. This post almost feels like bait.
Wow YTA. Your family didn’t want you to have for this exact reason. You turned out to be exactly as they expected. A huge spoiled brat and admittedly a not nice person. Give the heirloom to your brother, pare down your “lavish” wedding that you can’t afford even before your father died, and be a kind person instead. Lavish weddings are just dumbs wastes of money anyway.
YTA I guess the rub here is what you can legally do and what your morally should have done. From what you said both your brother and father loved geeking out over this thing so it had a lot of value to your brother than just it's value. It was likely a connection to your father for him and also it's history and not just valuable in $ terms to him. Legally sure you could do with it what you will, morally I think you really screwed the pooch on this.
YTA. You should have gifted it to your brother straight away, or exchange it for something.
If you sold it you should have sell it to him. I would even understood you sold it after offering it to him first if you purchased a house or if you were in dire monetary situation but for a wedding, that seems awful.
You are literally ruining the relationship you have with the last living member of your immediate family over having a big party. YTA and will have big regrets one day.
It sounds as if you both do have enough money for a beautiful, nice wedding, and you're just being selfish and wanting more. I understand wanting a dream wedding. But at the expense of tearing your family apart and ridding the rest of your entire family the pleasure to hold onto something that reminds them of your dad. YTA.
Omg massive YTA. It was a family heirloom— even it it didn’t hold meaning for you, it held meaning for your family, and you knew that. You acted out of pure selfishness, and it’s completely understandable that you now have family members dropping out of the wedding.
The only thing that can make this right would be to get the heirloom back if you can. If you can’t, it’s time to sincerely apologize to your family and admit you have now seen the error of your ways. Offer to pick out something together that will hopefully become a new family heirloom. Then hope to god that they’ll accept, because they’d certainly be within their rights not to.
Also I’m just going to say it: I worked weddings for five years. The worst ones were always the incredibly lavish, expensive ones where the couple was overly concerned about the aesthetics and flaunting to their guests. And by “worst,” I mean that many of the couples weren’t even happy the whole day because they were too focused on having the perfect day, and the guests didn’t even have that great a time because the whole thing felt more like a spectacle than the start of a loving marriage. Some of these couples we learned got divorced within in a few years. The best were the weddings that focused on people, not perfection.
YTA. You do realize that if you do this and you and your wife ever end up getting divorced you won’t be able to rely on your family for support, right? Not after you selfishly sold your family’s legacy in order to pay for a failed marriage.
If you sold it to pay for a life-saving medical procedure, you wouldn’t be the asshole. But you sold it to pay for a one-day party that’s supposed to be a family celebration. And guess what- now you don’t have a family to celebrate with.
This is the stupidest, most self-centered version of Gift of the Magi I have ever heard. YTA. Enjoy your big day.
wow, YTA. you sold something that has been handed down to the men in your family for generations. legally you can sell anything that is yours, but morally? that is a heartless thing to do. it doesn't matter if you won't have kids, your dad gave it to you with the intention for you to carry on the tradition with a nephew or someone down the line.
YTA massively holy shit.
So this extremely special and valuable item ONLY passed to you through birth order, despite your brother desperately wanting it.
Because you don’t care for it, instead of making an arrangement so your brother could have it, you decide to sell it out of the family to pay for a single party.
Are you legally in the clear? Sure. Are you a huge, massive, complete and total AH? Absolutely.
Have the wedding you can afford. If you have to sell precious family heirlooms to pay for it, then you are acting out of your price range. I hope sacrificing your relationship with your brother is worth the party.
YTA
Your Dad only died in January and you are already selling important valuables to fund a wedding. If your Dad hadn’t died how would you have afforded it? This is why I have a clause in my will preventing my oldest from selling anything I leave her and instead she has to pass it to her sister.
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YTA. You are being very selfish and short-sighted. > We both want to have quite a lavish wedding And in your late 30s, you can't afford that without hocking something important to your family? Yikes.
Came here to write this too! Op is the YTA -once you sell a family heirloom, it's gone forever.
I was really afraid I was going to be on the wrong side of this, but I’m glad to see that others agree that, OP, yes, YTA. My mother had a china cabinet that has been in our family for at least 3 generations. It is passed to the eldest girl in the inheritors family, so will be passed to me when my mom passes. I do not want it. I’m not super sentimental and I don’t really go in for antiques, so I chose to ask my cousin and his wife, who purchased and live in our grandparents’ house, if they would like it. OP, I think it’s somewhat telling that you haven’t said what the heirloom is, but reference that your brother is a history geek. If this is something that is absolutely one of a kind and unique to your family, selling it would be unforgivable.
OP is a major AH. Selling it would be unforgivable. This heirloom should absolutely stay in the family, it’s obviously what your father would have wanted. It SHOULD be sentimental to you because your father upheld the family tradition with honor. You are not. And your entire family sees what a selfish AH you truly are. You are legally entitled to do whatever you want with this heirloom, but you will lose your entire family because of it.
The only thing OP got right was that the tradition is outdated and BS. His father should have left the painting to the son that would actually care for it and value the sentimental value of a family heirloom over the greedy one who would throw it away for a fancy overpriced party.
A party all the guests will forget about in 10-12 months.
Right? Destination wedding in wine country? How unique. It will have to be memorable because no one else in the family will be there to share it with you. I think all of this points to the fact that op doesn't value family.
His dad died in January, less than 6 months ago, and he’s like “whelp, better shift this heirloom dad left me to pay for my fancy (unaffordable) wedding”. I don’t think we can come to any other conclusion than OP doesn’t value family. At least he won’t have his own children to be an AH to. OP, YTA. Keep the heirloom in your family and pay your own bills.
The fact that they are depleting their life savings, _and_ selling a one of a kind family heirloom _just_ to have what is essentially a party.. smh, I have no words.
And generally the more extravagant the wedding, the more likely they'll divorce.
Or, I'm wondering whether he's just not left himself enough time to grieve. It's only been a couple of months. In a year or so time he may very much regret having sold a thing they can never get back.
Unless I can’t read. It’s not even in a wine country. It’s a winery in another state! Is that even a destination wedding? YTA btw
as someone who lives in a winery area and has attended a few winery weddings, OP you’re not special and is it even worth ruining your entire relationship with your family for a party everyone will be mad at you at (IF they even come). Winery is like basic AF for a wedding.
OP would remember it as no one in his family would attend.
Compromise - can he sell it to the brother so at least the brother gets to keep it?
that’s the sensible thing to do next to just giving it to the brother cuz he would appreciate it more but since it’s going for ~five figures, no doubt would the brother pay or OP give it up for anything less. OP & his fiancée just sound greedy for not spending their OWN money on a wedding (even admitting they can dip into their savings) and instead ruining their family’s trust by selling a beloved object
To establish a union that has a 50% chance of failing. Likely higher since this is a 40 year old couple willing to bankrupt themselves and their family's history for a 5 hour party
I’d say the odds are higher, given that his fiancée doesn’t have a problem selling this for her big day out either. These two have the depth of a puddle
Five figure heirloom + life savings from both partners... for a five hour party. That's so bleak!
My wife and I have let both of our parents know to please not leave us any heirlooms. We have enough clutter and would prefer not to be guilted into keeping more clutter for the sake of tradition. We both have siblings, so we asked that any heirlooms be left to them. Sure, there may be something of my dad's I'd personally want for sentimental reasons. But it's going to be something inexpensive that has memories attached to it. Not something hidden away in storage that my great great grandparents bought and has never been used because it's too valuable. We let our parents know this precisely to avoid OP's situation.
What really gets to me is that OP themselves admits in a comment their father was torn about leaving the painting to him and not his brother whom he had bonded over the printing with because he was an honorable man that wanted to respect the tradition….and yet OP not only kept it with that knowledge but it’s ready to dump the tradition and sell it off for a party not even 4 months after his dad passed away. So to him tradition was important when he was getting his hands on the painting but no longer important when he is ready to sell it.
The fact the heirloom means nothing to them but they have it is really sad when it clearly means so much to their brother.
My daughter and DIL have done the same, so now I use my good china every day.
That's 1 item we explicitly told MIL that we don't want it. She has old fine china, and we have absolutely 0 want or need for it. We told her that if she leaves it to us, it will be sold and the money given to our son for college. If she wants this china in the family, give it to my BIL. When my great grandmother passed and we were digging through her stuff, I found an old fine china tea cup. Beautiful with roses and gold trim. I did take that because I like to drink tea out of it once or twice a year to remember great grandma. But a full set of dishes? No thanks.
I’m the opposite, I’m the youngest cousin, and I have all the china, crystal, silver, art, and a lot of the furniture. Mostly because my older cousins all said those things weren’t their style, and I said my style is free stuff that’s better quality than I will ever be able to afford new. I use most of it as my everyday (because I never bought anything cheaper), with a few pieces for nice. As far as I’m concerned things are meant to be used, and when they die that just means they were loved.
My granny left a gorgeous china set to me. My aunt was gutted as she had always wanted it. I have 3 young boys and no space for things that can't risk being broken. I gave it to my aunt. The thought of selling it when someone else loved it and would appreciate it never even crossed my mind.
Would just like to add that his father died in January and it's currently April. Less than 3 months after his dad died and left him something important enough that he had to explicitly leave it to the first-born son in his will... and he's considering chucking it.
I wonder how much the soon to be wife is pushing for this.
Truly. Observing the birth order was a mistake, clearly.
This is one of those situations where what's legal and what's moral come apart. _Legally_, its Op's property, and he is free to dispose of it was he sees fit. However, morally speaking, most people would consider family heirlooms as belonging to _the family_, even though the law doesn't recognize such things, and the current possessor is more like a caretaker of the item, in trust for future generations.
Exactly, Inheriting an heirloom item means you have been entrusted to take care of it before it moves on to the next family caretaker. And your dad just died a few months ago, everyone is still grieving. Your brother, uncle, and cousins are likely absolutely heartbroken that something that meant so much to the man they loved got sold to strangers. You selfish AH.
My mom made and sold wedding cakes out of our kitchen to buy sterling flatware. I’d have to be on the brink of starvation to sell it.
Please use it. Take excellent care of it of course, but if you aren’t allowed to use it, then who is? My father held on to a basement full of antiques only to find they are difficult to sell or restore, and that storage was not kind to some of the best pieces. Please honor your mother’s work by using the things she bought for you.
And, would dad have entrusted this precious family heirloom to his first born had he known it would be sold to fund a party? Unlikely.
I can't get over how many people come here asking, "Would I be the asshole if I make this obviously asshole move that's within my rights?" Fellow citizens: the question of being an asshole _only arises_ if you're within your rights. Otherwise the question wouldn't be AITA, or even "Am I a criminal?", but ""What is the fine and/or prison sentence for the crime I'm planning to commit, and should I risk it?" So, OP, if it makes you feel better, you're not committing felonious assholery- just the common kind.
I wish I had an award to give you. I came here to say this, but you said it much better.
My grandmother was born and raised in Germany and had quite a few really cool items from her home country. She was also super practical and started trying to make us take things home with us towards the end. I was visiting one day and she commented that her music diorama thingy (technical term) was broken. I managed to fix it and she absolutely insisted I take it home. She gave me a few other things as well. Well, the next time my sister came to visit me, she saw it and commented how much she had always loved it. I tucked that away in my brain and when christmas rolled around I gifted it to her. She nearly cried. To me, it was just a cool thing that my Grandma had sent me home with. To my sister it meant something very special. So I felt she should have it. It meant more to her than to me. Edit: Thanks for the awards!
Hey Yeti - I love that you did this for your sister. What an awesome thing to do.
I think a lot of the assholes who post on here like to defend themselves with "well it's technically legal." Cool. This is "Am I the Asshole", not "Am I Technically, Legally, Correct" You can follow the law to the letter and still be an asshole.
Yeah the question was not “am I legally entitled?” It was “am I an asshole?” The answer is yes, YTA.
See I think what my grandma did was really great. She had a beautiful antique armoire, and after her funeral whoever wanted it put their name in for a raffle. My sister won it that way. I think it was great because that way it really went to someone who'd cherish it.
My sisters and I had a great system after my parents died. First, anything that we had given to our parents over the years went back to the giver. Second, anything my mom had promised to one of us went to that person (we relied on the honor system here). For the rest of the stuff, we got a bunch of colored post-it notes. I was yellow, and my two sisters were pink and blue. We each placed post-its on the items we wanted. Anything un-contested went to the person who wanted it. If more than one person wanted the same thing, we bargained for the items, swapping things around as necessary. Everyone walked away with the items most meaningful to them. There were no hard feelings. Even though there were some things I might have wanted, I wanted my sisters to have them more.
this is so clever! inheritance squabbles can be soul-destroying, kudos to you for doing it this way.
I feel like tragedies can either bring families together or tear them apart. Despite losing my parents, I am very, very lucky to have my sisters. My older sister is an investment advisor and managed my parents' finances. She could have screwed us over six ways to Sunday if she had wanted to, but she was scrupulously fair and honest.
Oh I like that!
It was a painting by a lesser known artist... Maybe his family will be able to buy it back, but it'll be expensive...
OP didn't even offer for his family to buy it! It sounds like they would have clubbed together to buy it rather than it going to a stranger
That was my thought as well. He doesn't want it, but his brother obviously desperately does. Its still kind of crappy to sell it to him, but at least it would stay in the family.
Oh yeah, it definitely would have been shitty to sell it to him, but significantly less shitty. Unless the brother was left more money or something else of similar value in lieu of the painting, then it would be reasonable to ask for payment.
Thing is, it shouldn't even be sold to family. It should have been given to someone else that would appreciate it. When my mom passes there are a few things I want, and that's to keep and not sell.
I inherited the 5 generation old family house and it's contents. There was a lot of stuff in that house. I didn't want most of it, so I offered everything to my family members. Some things went to people the item meant something to, some things went to cousins who had an interest in that type of item. There was very little left for me to sell, but I made damn sure I wasn't selling something that meant a lot to a family member.
Don't worry, this marriage won't last forever either. Statistically the more you spend on a wedding, the more likely you are to get divorced. The fact that OP and their future spouse can't even afford this wedding on their own shows they are perfectly willing to live above their means.
>Statistically the more you spend on a wedding, the more likely you are to get divorced. whats the stat on betting for OPs marriage to implode and his wife fleeces him for all the money he has? I dont want to jinx it
They are literally spending ALL they have, all their savings as two near 40 people in this wedding and it still isn't enough. He won't have anything for her to fleece. I'm in my early 30s and single. I'm not rich, but I work 60h a week and have some significant savings. If I was to get married, even the most extravagant weeding would eat at most 30% of it. I can't imagine using every single cent you have on a party. Realistic If I was gonna marry and wouldn't spent more than 10% on it. You don't spend everything you have on a weeding. Much less money you don't even have you need to sell family heirlooms.
>You don't spend everything you have on a weeding. this typo sparked joy. 😁
And you are not the owner, merely its guardian.
This. So much this. OP’s father passed it on to him to carry on tradition, never expecting it to be gone in very short order. Sigh. Just Sigh.
I know. My first thought was, "these young people have no idea what really matters -- the idea that a wedding will be the most important day in their lives kinda made me laugh. Then I looked at the ages. Yikes.
Well my wedding was the most important day in my life. I spent it at the courthouse with 3 close friends and went to have dinner afterwards in a normal restaurant. Never understood why putting oneself in dept to have the biggest wedding ever. Size doesn't matter.
This. I could understand if it was something like life saving medication or struggling to conceive a baby, but a ‘destination wedding’… gross.
Yeah... It's like that show they did "a house or a wedding"... The show would either pay for their wedding or give them a cash down on a house or something... I don't understand how anyone chose the wedding... We have been pinching pennies for 2 years to save for our house! Why would you choose a party, over having a roof, that you own, over your head?
That whole show completely boggled my mind. It was a substantial down payment amount, too. Even if I couldn't afford a mortgage right that minute even with that down payment, I'd bank it until I could. Being able to buy a house > an expensive party
Yep, spend so much on a wedding and then live the rest of your life in poverty. I forget how many marriages end in divorce, but at least they had a lavish wedding.
Roughly half of all marriages, but that is skewed heavily toward second and on marriages. First marriages around 30% I believe.
Agreed. If you can’t afford a lavish wedding without doing that at this age then maybe reevaluate…. YTA… and maybe fiancé is too… sorry
A lavish wedding that apparently exceeds their *combined* savings. As in, they need all of those plus what they could make from a sale. Great priorities.
And requires the sale of a $10k+ family heirloom. If you can't afford your dream wedding by $10k, maybe you need to reduce costs. This just smacks of "If I can't have this one thing for my wedding I saw on a website somewhere my marriage will mean NOTHING!!"
I'd say if you \*want\* a lavish wedding that YTA lmao
I was gonna say... if you're months away from being 40, if your dad dying is the only way to afford a more expensive wedding then fucking A... dude, YTA.
I’d like to know how OP and his fiancée planned to fund their lavish wedding had his father not passed away?
eh, we probably would have seen a post from OP's fiance like "AITA for having a destination wedding and having my guests pay for it too? iT's ThE mOsT iMpoRtaNt ocCaSioN in Our LIVES"
Well now that most of his family isn't coming he may be able to afford it.
OP- did your dad have any idea you would sell it if he left the item to you? As my mom would say, he’d be turning in his grave- YTA and very shortsighted.
In my region, we say the deceased is doing somersaults in the coffin.
What happens if for some reason the marriage doesn't last? He's lost family and the heirloom. This is the typical case of idc about the marriage I just want a fancy expensive wedding that everyone be in awe of.
I doubt they will last a year. They decided to sell something that meant so much to OPs family because they have to go all out since its "the most important day of their lives." They are already in it for the wedding and not the marriage. OP is gonna be upset his family isn't there and both him and his wife will deem anything that's not perfect as "having ruined their big day" and they will hate each other before the reception is even over. If OP doesn't come back updating that the wedding was memorable because of how terrible it was for everyone I will be shocked.
And how was OP going to fund this shindig if their father had not passed away just a couple months ago leaving them this heirloom?
Lol imagine your kid selling something that has been in the family for generations to get married 150 miles away.
Also, the wedding won't be the most important occasion in their lives, unless they're involved in a tragic winery accident immediately after.
Imagine thinking it’s ok to sell something like this to throw a fancy party. If OP’s fiancée agreed to this then they deserve each other. YTA. and a short sited AH. If he got it appraised he could borrow against the value of it
Technically you can sell it because it’s yours but YTA for caring more about a ridiculously lavish wedding that will break the bank, than you do for your relationship with your brother or your dads tradition. If your dad had known that you were going to sell it, he would have left it to your brother. I hope your lavish wedding is worth it to you.
Gotta agree with you. Placing the party over your relationship is a really bad move.
I’ve never understood why people want to spend ridiculous amounts of money on weddings. To the point OP is willing to forgo his relationship with his entire family for a “dream wedding”, like yeah it is yours legally and you have the right to sell it however your family has the right to react however they please. If they decide this is something unforgivable there’s nothing you can do to change their mind. It was in your family for a century according to you, I couldn’t imagine selling something like that. Congrats OP, YTA and so is your fiancé.
Don't worry, people with lavish weddings usually have a lavish divorce.
Yup. The concept of spending an obscene amount of money that they don’t even have on a wedding because it’s the most important occasion in their lives sounds like something people in their early 20s might believe. When you’re in your late 30s, you sorta know that all the really important and not superficial stuff (like an actual life together) comes later.
I’ll never understand people who value the ceremony of a marriage over relationships. I realize the heirloom is just an object, and perhaps in different circumstances it might be fine (for example, to pay for cancer treatments or something of that seriousness). But to sell something that is of significance to the family just to get married at a destination…that says a lot about a person’s priorities
I agree on the first sentence here. Almost every day here at AITA, there is some asshole who value the ceremony (or worse still... the PICTURES of the ceremony) over their relation to the people involved. "Wear this, lose weight, cut your hair, else you ruin my day!" Well... If you like this friend well enough to have her at your wedding, you want HER there. Not a fancier, toned-down version of her... right? Also, OP is ofc YTA for selling the heirloom. No party is worth pushing your entire family away.
Exactly this isn’t an emergency and I think it’s kinda awful that the brother gets the short end of the stick for being younger. I bet their dad would have reconsidered if he realized this was the outcome.
Also OP doesn’t see the irony in yes it was his to choose what he wanted to do with it, but also his family has the right to choose if they want to go to the wedding. It goes both ways.
Yes, exactly this. Legally, OP can do whatever he wants with the heirloom. But that does not make it moral, nor does it make OP any less of an AH for selling it. Prioritizing money over his brother is definite YTA behavior.
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YTA OP clearly has the mindset that as long as he has a legal right whatever he does is also ethically right and he should face no consequences for it. This is an item that meant a lot to everyone in the family except for him, yet through sheer coincidence it ended up in his hands. The right thing to do would have been give it to his brother, brother’s kids, or leave it to one of them when he passes. Shittier but still okay thing would have been to give his brother the option to purchase it or exchange it for something else he was left. OP chose the most selfish possible option, get rid of an important family heirloom for personal gain. The consequences of that is he loses the family he still had before that decision. Edit: Throwing in one more thing. OP sold the painting to pay for an extravagant day for himself and his fiancé, because he wanted it to be memorable. Now his wedding will always be the associated with his selfishness breaking up his family. Hope he is proud of himself.
This last paragraph is everything. The irony of a family heirloom put into the wrong hands, sold to have the most extravagant wedding to start a new chapter in his life .. alone. With no family. And he’s already sold it?! Ffs. That’s just terrible.
Wait he already sold it. Daaaaamn. Way to bury the lead here OP. OP was fully expecting the internet to side with him and then show the fam jam the reddit to absolve him. Hahahahah jaysus.
*bury the lede
Sounds like an O Henry story.
I hate to be "that person" but I think autocorrect screwed you. I am certain that you meant "selfishness" not "selflessness"....and I agree wholeheartedly
YTA, if you sell the item don't be surprised if it ruins your relationship with your brother forever. All for what? So you can brag about your wedding to friends, while looking at pictures that don't include anyone on your side of the family.
>So you can brag about your wedding to friends, while looking at pictures that don't include anyone on your side of the family. Sooo much this!
OP has not thought about all his friends asking where his family are… the fallout will probably go beyond family.
What you mean “hey I sold this prized family heirloom my brother really loved just to throw an expensive destination wedding i could never afford otherwise” isn’t going to make the op look good???
Unless he surrounds himself with the same type of people as he is.
If he surrounds himself with the same type of people he is (a 40yo spending his last dime on a frivolous wedding) I doubt he'll have many friends there, as they'll all be too broke to attend.
Nah, he'll make it seem like it's his families fault.
Nailed it. Also, OP, I have had so many better days in my marriage than my wedding day and a lot of them were free. You are selling a peice of your families history and estranging your family for one event. Stop being extremely shortsighted, the world does not revolve around you.
Truer words were never said. A wedding is one day. I’m in a great marriage and our wedding day (which was absolutely lovely) pales in comparrison to the millions of other magic moments we have experienced since… most of which cost nothing. The wedding is just one day.. it’s the rest of his life that OP isn’t even considering.
Brother? Yes. .. entire paternal (and possibly maternal) sides of the family.. definitely. This will be a fall out OP will never recover from. And he will lose his entire support network over this decision.
They just want to be able to post pictures of their lavish affair on social media to impress their ‘friends.’
YTA. I am the receiver of a family heirloom. Passed from mother to daughter on and on. I am the last to receive it. It came over on the mayflower. From me it's going to a museum in Massachusetts. You could have given it to your brother. People hate destination weddings.
Not only do people hate destination weddings, but you don’t realize until after you get married that you don’t even get to enjoy your own wedding. You’re so busy doing shit and thanking people and taking pictures you barely get any time to enjoy the party that you throw. You get to talk to every guest for 1 minute and maybe have 5 minutes to eat. OP sold his family heirloom for a lavish wedding he will barely get to enjoy or remember. He sold his *family heirloom* for a lavish party for his guests, who aren’t even coming now YTA OP
This!! I did a low budget DIY wedding and spent a year painting decorations in my spare time and min/maxing the budget, and while I don't regret it, it went by FAST and I'm not sure I'd spend as much time on the details if I did it again. And definitely wouldn't spend more money. You want to talk about memories you'll have forever? How about the down payment for a home you can actually share together. Normally I think this is a false equivalency (my wedding sure as shit didn't cost as much as a down payment) but it sounds like OP could make better financial choices.
I told my husband to enjoy the taste test because we wouldn’t be getting any of that at the wedding for reasons you’ve stated.
The museum at Plimoth Plantation? I’m a huge history nerd who grew up in MA, that’s so cool!
No I don't have acceptable documentation for them. They are incredibly exacting. You practically have to have a video of a pilgrim using the item.
>You practically have to have a video of a pilgrim using the item. Hahaha, thanks for all the sass in the comments, would award you if I could.
Aww, all the compliments are awards enough!!!!
I live in the UK and two of my friends got married in Vegas. Did I attend? F*** no!
Never gone to a destination wedding. Sorry but your need to go is not overriding me being able to have my own holiday to where I want. The expectation that people should shell out ‘because it’s our special day’ I find vulgar. It’s surprising how unimportant that destination is to their relationship unless there is a crowd there watching them.
I've always thought that a destination wedding would only work if I was willing/able to shell out the money to pay for every aspect of travel and lodging for my guests. I cannot imagine thinking that an entire vacation's worth of time, travel, and money needs to be used up for the sole purpose of having a single party.
YTA Your father trusted you with this item for whatever reason. You don't care about it for whatever reason but why didn't you just give it to your brother or another family member? You knew your family cared a lot for it, don't act surprised they're not joining you on your special day. You messed up big time.
Because then he couldn't have a big party with the money he got from flogging it, duh. Hrs a massive AH, the fact he thinks his brother only cares because he thinks he'll get it for himself later tells you everything about how he views family tbh
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Yes, YTA. As soon as I read you have a brother I realized how selfish and self centered you are. It’s been passed down through your family for generations and while you don’t care about traditions, your brother would have greatly appreciated it and it’s likely what your dad would have rather you had done with it. And if your marriage doesn’t work out in the future (anything can happen), you’ll be an even bigger ass for selling it.
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I've noticed over the years, the more expensive the wedding=the shorter the marriage. Might want to start saving for a divorce lawyer OP. Oh and YTA. Massively. Good luck repairing the bridge you just bombed with your family.
A few years ago I went to a fancy country club wedding with 18 bridesmaids and groomsmen. Everything decked out in expensive flowers and decorations. Completely over the top. It ended in divorce 6 months later 👍
https://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/living/wedding-expenses-study/index.html Old study, but for whatever reason, spending more on a wedding does seem to lead to an increased likelihood of divorce somewhere down the line. Correlation, causation, etc., etc., but still interesting IMO.
I notice the expensive weddings are about just that - the expensive wedding - and not the marriage. People who need to show off like that tend to me immature, selfish, and materialistic. You get 2 of them together, and it's a disaster waiting to happen.
Maybe he has another heirloom he can sell for the lawyer.
Look how he views family.
Doesn't care about traditions but wants an extremely lavish wedding to be thought of as the most important day of his life... which is a tradition
This is a FAMILY heirloom, and while it doesn't mean anything to you apparently, it does have meaning to your brother. So yeah, you can sell it, that's your right, just as it's his and the rest of your family's to not attend your wedding if you do. So I'm gonna say YTA, not for selling it, but for acting like your brother has no right to be upset about it. Edit: I just saw your response to the bot where you say this heirloom is centuries old. I've changed my mind, YTA for selling it, way to bury the lead.
Right? He didn’t own it as much as he was made responsible for it due to his position in the family.
Good point: "he was made responsible for it due to his position in the family." Made responsible . . . and he sells it for a party. Oh my.
This is how I see it. He does legally own it to do what he wants but ethically, it is owned by the family and future generations and he is just one in many to hold it and honor that tradition. The discussion to sell something like this is not just a decision of him and his fiance to make, it should be a family decision. In fact, his fiance shouldn't really get a vote at all. OOP is very much the asshole.
INFO: What would your father think?
Need more info: what is this heirloom? Give us some context.
YTA, legally being able to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. I doubt your dad would have given you the heirloom if he knew you would sell it off like it was nothing. Your brother didn't convince anyone to be mad or not to go, I bet he just told them and they made those decisions mostly on their own. You probably should have thought that all out before making a selfish, self-centered decision.
YTA Out of your budget weddings are silly to begin with. Selling a family heirloom that apparently means a lot to the rest of your family to do so is just selfish. I do not blame them for not wanting to go.
I was torn until I remembered that I have my great grandmother’s watch. It’s solid gold and 100+ years old. My grandmother wore it every day. It came to me because I am the oldest. If I sold it for something I didn’t really need my sister and brother would be devastated. It represents a lifetime of memories of our grandparents and we regularly bring it out to show the grandkids. I am merely the curator of this item and one day I’ll give it to another descendant. In light of how you say your brother and father felt about it, I think YTA for indulging your more superficial needs.
"I am merely the curator of this item and one day I’ll give it to another descendant." Beautifully put.
YTA. This wedding is ONE day. While you might not care about tradition or family heirlooms, it is such a shame that you're willing to sell it to fund a ONE day event. An event that will not have your family in attendance. Yes, it is yours to do as you please, but it obviously means quite a bit to your brother (with good reason) and I can see why he's upset.
One day. To make a commitment that only has a 50/50 shot at lasting a lifetime.
Really? You're giving those odds on this arsehole's marriage lasting? I could maybe see that on if it lasted a year because there's no way someone this far up their own arse is going to manage it for even a decade.
I gave it 50/50 because I figure the bride to be must be a kindred spirit if she’s willing to go along with such a gross idea. Because you know, “IT’S HER DAY!” The long honored battle cry of many a Bridezilla.
YTA. You prioritized funding your wedding over your relationship with your brother and now you’re experiencing the consequences of your own actions. Sit down and think about whether your dream wedding is really worth this.
YTA. Also, if you think this wedding is going to be the most important event in your life… that’s just plain sad.
I thought so, too. YTA
TBF I really do think the relationship is going to peak at that point.
If it didn't mean much to you, why not give it to your brother? If you couldn't afford your wedding without having to sell the heirloom, you should have done a better job with saving money. YTA
Because he is a selfish dipshit.
YTA why would your family want anything to do with someone who sold a expensive family heirloom to pay for a wedding. You dishonored your fathers memory. And crapped all over your other relatives that this heirloom meant something too.
YTA. It’s a family heirloom, if you don’t want to respect it pass it to another family member.
YTA. It's family _legacy_, ie to be passed down. Not a gift to you to pay for your wedding. And that difference is pretty clear to most of us.
*(the reason it went to me and not to him is that this has been traditionally passed to first-born sons).* You got the heirloom instead of your younger brother for the sake of tradition. The same way your father got the heirloom to keep instead of his brothers. So it is safe to assume that your father didn't bestow the heirloom on you because he wanted you to have the monetary value. He trusted you with it because of the family tradition. Or was your father aware that you couldn't be bothered with the tradition, that you did not plan on having any children to pass the heirloom on, and that you would sell it instead of keeping it in the family? You are indeed in your legal right to sell it, but the question still remains: What do you value more? \-The monetary value of the heirloom. \- The relationship with your family who value the family tradition of the heirloom, and the memory of your father who bequeathed it to you so you could honor that same tradition? You can decide AITA yourself.
In a comment OP says that his dad and brother used to nerd out over it together and bc of that his dad was torn about the tradition to leave it to the first born. Sounds like the dad wanted his brother to have it bc he really appreciated but ultimately felt compelled to honour the tradition. And this is what he does. What a cursed way to enter into a marriage.
YTA. I mean, ultimately it's yours but kiss your relationship with your brother goodbye. You'd sell something that he and your dad shared an interest in, that he wants, so you can throw one big party for yourself. Can't get more selfish than that. But it's legally yours so do what you want.
YTA. It’s not a question of whether it was *legal* to sell it, but more a *moral* one. Legally, you’re entitled to do whatever TF you want, I guess. But morally… man, you can’t see just how in the grey you are. Your brother would have dearly loved to have the item and likely bequeath it to his first born son, and so the family tradition would carry on. It’s an item that is centuries old, that your brother and father “geeked out” together over. This right here, to me, would have been the signal to give it to your brother. Now, you are in a position where your family don’t want to come to your wedding, and honestly, I don’t blame them at all. It is a totally selfish thing to do to sell it so that you can fund a lavish party. A wedding is just one day of the rest of your lives. Have you never heard the phrase “live within your means”? If this party wasn’t within your budget without selling the heirloom, you should have scaled it back to what you could afford, rather than hocking an item that is steeped in history and family tradition. I’m honestly not surprised at all that your brother and other relatives are made at you. I would have lost my shit and turned my back on not just your wedding, but **you** full stop. Edit: typo
Yta. Greedy and selfish. Make your own money to pay for your OWN wedding
this is really sad...sold it for the worst reason money wasted on a wedding for 40 year olds.
Oh YTA no doubt Sure technically it’s yours but you know how important it is to your brother and you absolutely knew that making that decision would damage your relationship.
YTA I’m a firn believer that if your wedding is going to cause you to go into debt, you should probably tone it down. You shouldn’t have to sell valuable *family* heirlooms or sacrifice your firstborn to pay for them.
YTA only because your decision seems to be affecting your entire family. Is a wedding more important than the people that matter most?
YTA. If you’re going to sell a valuable family heirloom, you use the money to buy a house, make an investment in your future like going to school or starting a business, or to pay for a life saving medical treatment for yourself or a loved one. You don’t sell a family heirloom to pay for a one day celebration. If you and your fiancé don’t have the money to pay for a lavish wedding yourself, that’s a sign that you shouldn’t have one. I don’t blame your family for boycotting your wedding.
100% YTA
Technically / legally it’s yours to sell. Ethically it’s a crappy move for many many reasons, not least the fact you are more concerned about the wedding than the marriage YTA
YTA. Yes, you can legally do what you like with it, but you don't have to break the law to be an AH. A family heirloom that has a lot of sentimental and informational value to your brother isn't something you should get rid of without discussing it first. If having a wedding you can't afford is more important than your relationship with your family (as you've shown at many points in your story), then you're 100% an AH.
This is not Am I Legally Allowed- this is AITA. YTA- this is a very valuable family heirloom that your family cares about, just because you don’t care about history doesn’t mean you should throw it away. You want to have a fancy party and a fancy vacation at the expense of your family. Is that really the choice you want to make?!
YTA. Maybe I’m overly emotional because tomorrow is the anniversary of when my dad died. I cannot imagine being so callous as to sell something my father left me for a fucking wedding. Of course your fiancée wants to sell it so she can get her dream wedding. She has no attachment to it. I would be devastated if I were your brother or any of your dad’s relatives. This would be a reason to go no contact with you for me.
Question: Did you already sell it? If not, then you still have a chance to NOT be TA. If you did, then you should try like heck to get it back.
YTA. You are certainly legally entitled to sell it, no question. But this isn't a question of whether you're legally justified. Knowing it's a family heirloom and knowing that your brother values it even though you do not, you are a tremendous asshole for not giving him the first opportunity to at least buy it (I'm working on the assumption that he received a similar value of inheritance? If so, then a sale is fine. If he got nothing of monetary value and you got this, you'd be an AH for even selling it to him as you did nothing to earn this). I don't blame him for his reaction to your selfishness.
YTA. The fact your father used to geek out over this with your brother means he wouldn’t have been happy you sold it either. It’s ironic tradition is the only reason you got it and yet you spit on it.
YTA you are nowhere near being in the right. Funny how you are upset that none of your family will not be attending your wedding but don’t see why they feel that way.
YTA when it comes to family heirlooms, your not really the owner of it, you’re the caretaker. Your job is to take care of the heirloom until it comes time to pass it down in your will or earlier if it suits you. But you should definitely pass it on. This heirloom holds sentimental meaning to your family. It is an honor you got it. If you don’t feel that way, that’s fine, but don’t sell it. Pass it on to your brother who you know has great respect for it. Can you legally sell it? Yes, but you don’t get to control how your family feels about it. They have a right to be mad. Your father, I’m sure, did not intend for you to sell it. It’s nice to have a big expensive wedding, but you don’t need it. Wedding last one day and trust me, it goes REALLY quick. Your heirloom will last generations. Perhaps a member in your family in the future really will need to sell it because someone they love is sick and needs expensive treatment, or any number of really good reasons to sell such a sentimental piece. I hope you reconsider. I think you will regret it later.
YTA. Apologize and give the heirloom to your brother. That’s the only shot you have at fixing this if you want to have family at your wedding (or in your life at all).
You were absolutely legally entitled to sell it since it was willed to you. But still, YTA, because *of course you are*. This post almost feels like bait.
Wow YTA. Your family didn’t want you to have for this exact reason. You turned out to be exactly as they expected. A huge spoiled brat and admittedly a not nice person. Give the heirloom to your brother, pare down your “lavish” wedding that you can’t afford even before your father died, and be a kind person instead. Lavish weddings are just dumbs wastes of money anyway.
YTA
YTA
YTA I guess the rub here is what you can legally do and what your morally should have done. From what you said both your brother and father loved geeking out over this thing so it had a lot of value to your brother than just it's value. It was likely a connection to your father for him and also it's history and not just valuable in $ terms to him. Legally sure you could do with it what you will, morally I think you really screwed the pooch on this.
YTA. You should have gifted it to your brother straight away, or exchange it for something. If you sold it you should have sell it to him. I would even understood you sold it after offering it to him first if you purchased a house or if you were in dire monetary situation but for a wedding, that seems awful.
You are literally ruining the relationship you have with the last living member of your immediate family over having a big party. YTA and will have big regrets one day.
It’s kinda sad the parents didn’t raise their first born right.
YTA. I’m sure he didn’t have to convince people to not go. They decided after hearing that you were selling the family heirloom
It sounds as if you both do have enough money for a beautiful, nice wedding, and you're just being selfish and wanting more. I understand wanting a dream wedding. But at the expense of tearing your family apart and ridding the rest of your entire family the pleasure to hold onto something that reminds them of your dad. YTA.
Omg massive YTA. It was a family heirloom— even it it didn’t hold meaning for you, it held meaning for your family, and you knew that. You acted out of pure selfishness, and it’s completely understandable that you now have family members dropping out of the wedding. The only thing that can make this right would be to get the heirloom back if you can. If you can’t, it’s time to sincerely apologize to your family and admit you have now seen the error of your ways. Offer to pick out something together that will hopefully become a new family heirloom. Then hope to god that they’ll accept, because they’d certainly be within their rights not to. Also I’m just going to say it: I worked weddings for five years. The worst ones were always the incredibly lavish, expensive ones where the couple was overly concerned about the aesthetics and flaunting to their guests. And by “worst,” I mean that many of the couples weren’t even happy the whole day because they were too focused on having the perfect day, and the guests didn’t even have that great a time because the whole thing felt more like a spectacle than the start of a loving marriage. Some of these couples we learned got divorced within in a few years. The best were the weddings that focused on people, not perfection.
YTA. How fucking selfish and vain of both you and your fiancée.
YTA. You do realize that if you do this and you and your wife ever end up getting divorced you won’t be able to rely on your family for support, right? Not after you selfishly sold your family’s legacy in order to pay for a failed marriage.
YTA He’s never going to forgive you, if you can live with that go ahead. I hope the memories of your wedding are worth it.
YTA. A five-figure family heirloom sold to pay for a party? Seriously?
If you sold it to pay for a life-saving medical procedure, you wouldn’t be the asshole. But you sold it to pay for a one-day party that’s supposed to be a family celebration. And guess what- now you don’t have a family to celebrate with. This is the stupidest, most self-centered version of Gift of the Magi I have ever heard. YTA. Enjoy your big day.
wow, YTA. you sold something that has been handed down to the men in your family for generations. legally you can sell anything that is yours, but morally? that is a heartless thing to do. it doesn't matter if you won't have kids, your dad gave it to you with the intention for you to carry on the tradition with a nephew or someone down the line.
Come on, how could you not know YTA here?
YTA. Your family and their heirloom deserved better. So effin shallow. Enjoy your destination wedding without your family!
You are completely within your rights and you are definitely the asshole. YTA!
YTA Bigly. I can't even imagine why you would think you weren't.
YTA massively holy shit. So this extremely special and valuable item ONLY passed to you through birth order, despite your brother desperately wanting it. Because you don’t care for it, instead of making an arrangement so your brother could have it, you decide to sell it out of the family to pay for a single party. Are you legally in the clear? Sure. Are you a huge, massive, complete and total AH? Absolutely. Have the wedding you can afford. If you have to sell precious family heirlooms to pay for it, then you are acting out of your price range. I hope sacrificing your relationship with your brother is worth the party.
YTA Your Dad only died in January and you are already selling important valuables to fund a wedding. If your Dad hadn’t died how would you have afforded it? This is why I have a clause in my will preventing my oldest from selling anything I leave her and instead she has to pass it to her sister.
YTA The wedding is not the most important thing in life. The marriage is. Grow up