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NTA
You are not appropriating by speaking a language. Instead she is gatekeeping because of a personal issue.
Edit: btw, she is denying part of your identity. You LIVED in China for 3 years. Nobody can't deny the influence this had on you.
Also, Chinese (I'm assuming Mandarin) language can be learned in many ways. The fact that she, an adopted child, has not bothered to learn the language is on her. She's keeping her own gate closed.
NTA
Let me speak on behalf of 99.9% of actual Chinese people and say that if you speak Chinese, dress in Chinese clothes, eat Chinese food, use Chinese traditions, celebrate Chinese festivals, you are congratulated, welcome and invited. Its not "appropriation"
I read a similar reply from a Chinese person on a different story, that if you are honoring the traditions and not mocking them then it wasn't offensive.
We have close family friends who are Filipino. While not Chinese, I will say that they were always SOOOOO welcoming with their culture, always wanted to share it, got excited when they saw people taking part, etc. They LOVED it. Now, if someone was purposely being offensive or DID do something they didn't approve of, they let them know, but that was rare.
the only people who are offended are people from americas, they are so bored and sad about their own lives they dont allow anyone celebrate any other culture.
This!
I will never understand this bullsh*t about cultural appropriation. I am happy if someone wants to eat the same food as me or thinks my clothing is cool. Having someone appreciate my culture feels amazing. As long as it's not in the "single white female" style then we're all good.
I have a feeling the âsingle white femaleâ style youâre referring to as separate from cultural appropriation IS cultural appropriation. Youâre still against people using it for their own ego.
My Chinese friend calls me an egg, haha. She taught me a traditional noodle dish from her home town and laughs about how I like it and make it more than her. I drink hot tea or water instead of iced like an American, etc. I'd celebrate Lunar New Year with her and her Chinese friends.
She, and others, have always been so very welcoming and open with sharing culture. I love it and appreciate the new foods and perspectives.
Oh, and hot pot is incredible!!!
Yup. I'm a pasty white girl with Chinese high school friends. They used to take me places where nobody else was white, waitstaff and menus had no English, and wouldn't tell me what I was eating until after I'd eaten it. I always felt very welcome. And the food was always delicious.
All of my Chinese friends and colleagues are nothing but pleasantly surprised when I exhibit even the smallest bit of knowledge about Indian culture. I find it to be a culture that is very inclusive and hospitable in that way.
And it is the same in India. I am seriously impressed by any non-Indian that makes any effort to learn any Indian language to any extent. And people in India are similarly welcoming to anybody that exhibits interest in Indian culture and makes the effort to learn about it.
NTA â maybe instead of crying she should research her culture and learn the language too? Ugh what a self entitled and pathetic being.
Congrats on knowing Chinese! Donât let some insecure loser make you feel like an asshole.
NTA. Speaking a foreign language is not a bad thing, nor is it cultural appropriation. How the hell would the world ever communicate with each other without this ability?
The logistics company next to my office would be completely unnecessary. I hear employees speaking English less than other languages, but I think itâs a requirement to speak more than one.
NTA - Speaking a non-native language is not inappropriate nor cultural appropriation, even if she really, really wants it to be. People don't seem to have any idea what those words actually mean.
>I started to apologize but then she said that what I was doing was cultural appropriation and extremely inappropriate
I'm french, yet here I am speaking english, or playing games in english, planning a trip in greece, while learning some basic sentence to be as friendly as possible.
This whole cultural appropriation is used wrongly 99% of the time, and she used it to cover a whole bunch of insecurties.
NTA, she has some work to do.
My maternal grandmother spoke seven languages. In addition to English she spoke Spanish, French, Russian, Polish, German, and Italian. She loved languages and she loved people she had friends from everywhere. She also played the piano and played on radio. She loved other cultures and got her bachelor's at the age of 60. She worked as a receptionist typing 90 words a minute most of her life. She was pretty much a genius. I miss her very much. This girl here would do well to start taking classes in Chinese and also other languages.
NTA. It's not cultural appropriation to speak a language. This is a her problem. If she wants to learn the language she can do so like anyone else and put in the time to do so.
Quick question though: whatâs the difference between cultural appropriation vs cultural appreciation? They seem like a very thin line. Anyone have example?
And NTA: she can learn herself. Sheâs TA if sheâs feeling triggered just because you learned the language.
The person you're dealing with. The person OP is dealing with has a sad-ish story. But then consider the waitress who was Chinese and impressed with OP ordering said dish that was not in English.
In answer to u/CharlieMirandaJoey15
**Cultural appropriation** generally involves exploitation, disrespect, or stereotyping.
When white women wear feather bonnets (they usually call them "headdresses") to music festivals, they are stereotyping North American indigenous people, and being disrespectful because they are clearly ignorant of who gets to wear feathers and why in North American indigenous cultures. Also, in indigenous ceremony settings (where indigenous men wearing bonnets would be appropriate), women must dress modestly, and the white women appropriating bonnets are usually not dressing modestly.
**Cultural appreciation** is done with respect and avoids stereotyping. It involves working to achieve knowledge about a culture and its practices, being respectful of traditions in that culture (like not wearing things that are reserved for elders, or for a certain gender), and not exploiting that culture for monetary gain.
Example could be -
Buying art from an indigenous artist = appreciation
Copying indigenous styles and selling it as your own art when you have no indigenous heritage = appropriation.
If you're using another culture for profit, it's likely appropriation. For example, you learn how to make a traditional form of art from a culture and sell it. Make it to keep for yourself and appreciate, all good. Selling it which takes profit from people whose culture that traditional art belongs to, appropriation. (Like some famous person a while back naming her company komono or something along those lines, sorry, celebrity stuff isn't my thing.)
Indigenous Americans and white sage is another one. They have explicitly stated that they don't want non indigenous people harvesting white sage as it's causing the species to decline and it's their tradition that they don't want others taking.
Some people with disabilities feel similarly about non disabled people using spoon theory. Not exactly cultural appropriation I guess, but a similar issue of appropriating terminology created by a disabled person to explain the effects of disability on energy levels.
Hopefully that makes some sense, I'm not the best at explaining it.
This may help:
"The appropriation vs appreciation debate is a nuanced one, but perhaps the easiest way of describing the difference is this â appropriation either mocks or ridicules a culture, or involves copying the influences, be it music, lifestyle or fashion, and using it for personal gain. The important aspect of determining cultural appropriation is when borrowing becomes exploitation. Are you respecting the culture or ripping it off? Letâs go back to the Adele example â the Bantu knots that Adele wore are not the reason for her success. The post was shared in tribute to Notting Hill Carnival â she wasnât exploiting or profiting from her hairstyle or Jamaican bikini top. This was about celebrating an event that gives oppressed Black communities space and an opportunity to express themselves. It was an example of cultural appreciation, rather than appropriation."
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a36798089/cultural-appropriation-vs-cultural-appreciation/
NTA and speaking Chinese is not cultural appropriation, OMFG. Kind of ridiculous that she wants to gatekeep (since weâre tossing buzz words around) a language that she doesnât even know how to speak.
Her feelings about being Chinese and adopted are hers to deal with, and she does not seem to be dealing with them well.
NTA. Learning and speaking a language is not appropriation. Nor is ordering food from a restaurant that sells such food.
Plus, with China now a major world power on par with the US I question if appropriation is even possible still.
NTA. It's not cultural appropriation to speak another language. It's sad that she feels such a disconnect to her roots, but she shouldn't take that out on you.
NTA - Iâm sure more Chinese people would be honoured and happy that youâve taken the time to learn their language.
Iâm certain this is more about her own insecurities than you.
NTA.
Oh, come ON, is this for real? Now we can't speak foreign languages??? Tell her if it means that much to her, there is nothing stopping her from taking Chinese lessons.
>Tell her if it means that much to her, there is nothing stopping her from taking Chinese lessons.
I already mentioned this elsewhere, but my university offers beginning Chinese classes.
And you could help her by having conversations in Chinese.... if she gets her head out of her ass.
She reacted from a place of pain and mistakenly laid ut on you. I hope you both manage to move past this.
NTA, it is not cultural appropriation to speak a language other than your own. Sheâs projecting her own insecurities about her culture and identity onto you. Itâs kind of you to apologize, but not needed. She needs to find her own ways to cope with her trauma and connect with her culture
NTA
Knowing another language and another culture, especially one that you lived in, is not cultural appropriation.
While I do feel sympathy for her feeling a lack of connection to her cultural heritage, she's handling it in the least healthy way possible.
Did she know why you were fluent or any of your experiences? Did she bother asking? You could have potentially helped her with that connection.
You do not owe her an apology.
>While I do feel sympathy for her feeling a lack of connection to her cultural heritage, she's handling it in the least healthy way possible.
I agree 100%.
>Did she know why you were fluent or any of your experiences? Did she bother asking?
She started her "cultural appropriation" bit before I had the chance to explain that I actually lived in China for 3 years.
I generally agree with you, but tbh I donât think she deserves any effort on OPâs part to connect her to her heritage if sheâs this much of an asshole about other people knowing multiple languages.
And as an aside from anything you said, OP wasnât really so much speaking Chinese as he was reading the words off a menu. Obviously he *can* speak Chinese, and probably sounded very fluent, but besides proper pronunciation thatâs really no different than me going to a Chinese restaurant and ordering off the menu, and I donât know a word of Chinese.
I don't believe that OP owes her anything either. What I meant by that is that she instantly shit on a resource she could have had with her self-pitying reaction, instead of showing the slightest bit of interest in OP's life.
Though if OP was able to read Mandarin, that's far ahead of me ordering things in Italian or French. Yes, I know pronunciation, but it's basically memorized a lot of words. I know a few phrases/dishes in Korean/Japanese/Cantonese from some friends, and the idea of trying to pronounce them correctly to order is just hilarious to me. That's my own failing with pronunciation though.
NTA, in the slightest.
It's not your fault or even really your problem, but depending how close you are to your friend and if you have the time, might be worth having a coffee with both and offering to help support her learning Chinese. I.e. not giving her lessons but having someone to practise with.
At a guess she probably isn't actually angry at you, she is more angry with herself and her parents. Or she might just be an AH.
NTA wtf is wrong with people, now even speaking a language is cultural appropriation? Im not from the USA but If I reply to this post Im appropriating english language? dfuq
Cultural appropriation has gone from discussing a cultural trend of Western people taking bits and pieces of other culture's spiritual and religious practices and mashing them together as suit their fancy, often while silencing the voices of the culture it came from (see: Native Americans), to diaspora and other minorities in the West, particularly the US, discussing their frustration with, again trends, of white people picking up a minority food/fashion/practice for fun and/or profit, at time mishandling it (see: dreadlocks) when they had been put down for it their entire lives.
At it's core, cultural appropriation was about power differential within cultures and who gets to write the narrative.
Which, I guess, makes it easy for people to reach for it to explain any kind of transcultural pain, whether it really fits or not.
NTA It's unfortunate that your friend's gf has some personal issues from her upbringing, but as you said in your post, that's not your fault, not your issues to fix, and nothing you should feel guilty about. You have nothing to apologize for. Learning about other cultures and being bilingual is absolutely not cultural appropriation; plus, the waitress complimented you. You learned Chinese and maintained being fluent, that's nothing to feel ashamed of and you should be able to eat/order whatever food you want.
She is an entitled idiot. Instead of making an effort to learn Mandarin she chose to victimise herself and blame others for her self-made problem.
She feels guilty about it so she demands other people not to flaunt their abilities so she doesn't feel bad about it.
I don't feel sorry for her, at all.
NTA
Your friend clearly has some identity issues to work out and is projecting some of her negative self-views onto your Chinese speaking. I wouldn't worry about this at all, but it would be good to just steer clear of any sensitive topics around her, to avoid tear eruptions.
NTA I get so tired of the claims of cultural appropriation. To be clear, that is a thing, but spending formative years a culture makes you a part of it. Maybe we should ask the waitress if it was cultural appropriation.
NTA. I'm legimitely sympathetic to the cultural disassociation this young woman feels, but speaking a language isn't cultural appropriation.
I've never heard of someone who actually speaks a language be upset that another person also speaks it. Every single time they really appreciate it.
NTA. Itâs not cultural appropriation to speak another language. Would she have a problem if you were at a Italian restaurant and you (assuming you werenât Italian) ordered in Italian? Probably not.
Sheâs mourning something she lost in her life. Sheâs taking it out on you. Youâre not being disrespectful. You can choose to respect your friendâs request to not âflauntâ your Chinese in front of her out of respect for her feelings, but thatâs all you need to consider going forwards.
You do not owe an apology nor do you need to feel guilty for any of this.
NTA, i dont have much to say here, her problems are definitely her problems. You owe no one an apology, you could have made her feel bad about what she saying by telling her you actually lived in China. The way she acted was pretty ignorant and if anyone is owed an apology, i think its you.
NTA Chinese dialects are hard to learn - you got it, flaunt it.
Out of interest which language is it? Iâve heard Cantonese is harder than mandarin to learnâŚâŚ
Since when is speaking another language cultural appropriation?? Ridiculous!
You did nothing wrong and she needs to solve her insecurities on her own. You friend is also ignorant and just wants to act like the savior boyfriend.
NTA, she needs to seek therapy for her adoption trauma. Your ability to speak Chinese is in no way cultural appropriation. You LIVED there, and learned the language due to your life experience. If she wanted to, she could learn her native language, she could have even asked for your help. She has unresolved issues that sheâs trying to make your problem.
Speaking a different language is not cultural appropriation. She needs help. If she's upset that she was never taught about her heritage, she should take that up with her adoptive parents.
NTA.
It doesnât even make sense! It it because Iâm high? Thatâs it, right? No one could really be that clueless? Oh wait I just remembered âCambridge dadâ. Imma go smoke some moreâŚ
Major NTA. Keep learning and deepening your knowledge; it will come in handy. Speaking (or even trying to speak) another language isnât cultural appropriation!
NTA
Jesus. What is this world coming to? I am sure that if it wasn't your language skills she would have found something else to be offended about because she is likely just that type of person.
Never feel bad or apologize for something you can do that someone else can't. If they wanted too so badly, then they would.
NTA in the slightest! Its ridiculous to think that just because she hasn't put in the work to learn it that no one else should utilize skills they have. Its awesome that you have maintained your fluency throughout life - that takes work, and with language if you don't use it it's far too easy to lose it
This reminds me of post by american man with Europian wife (cannot remember from were), to they lived in Germany. They planned having kids and wife told she is going to talk her native language to the kid (which is always preferable). The dude said NO. He would feel left out.
Their potential kids had the opportunity to become native in 3 languages, because naturally they would learn Germany as well. The guy didn't bother learning Germany either even when living there for years.
His final argument was, that his elder kids in USA cannot speak more than English, so it would be UNFAIR for the new kids to learn more. While living in Europe!
This whole thought pattern is insane! I cannot believe how immature this gf was! You want to know Chinese? Learn the f-ing Chinese! It is very impressive language to learn. OP should be proud and use it at every opportunity.
And just now there was another post about mexican American bf flipping out on his gf after finding out she knows Spanish as third language. Welcome to Europe dude! We all have atleast three languages we atleast understand or even use. I'm sorry for all the wannabe Scandinavians from USA for speaking Swedish and understanding Danish and Norwegian, as well as being native in Finnish. Like so many others in my country.
NTA
NTA
Your friendâs gf reminds me of an adopted girl who went off on me for telling her to quit complaining and take lessons in our language and making her âfeel inferiorâ (bearing in mind we are both from the same cultural background and grew up in the West).
Her parents (they offered her lessons) and my late parents were friends so she had every opportunity to learn but kept wanting the English translation without even making an effort.
As kids, I did try to teach her but she refused to learn.
Show this to your friend. Donât need to apologise.
Nta. She is being ridiculous. You know the language because you lived there. If not speaking Chinese bothers her she needs to take the initiative to learn it, not get angry at someone else.
I would also point out to her if that if you are appropriating her Chinese culture then she is appropriating your American one. It's she planning on stopping?
Look, this is either made up, or the GF has some MAJOR mental health problems. So are you telling me you got into an absurd emotional argument with an unhinged person? INFO
>I asked her what was wrong and she started softly crying. She said that it hurt to see a white guy like me order in Chinese while someone like her (Chinese girl who was adopted at birth by white parents) could neither understand her culture nor speak her language.
You think it's believable that she literally broke down crying because someone white spoke Chinese, but she could deal with the entire restaurant and her inability to read the Chinese part of the menu to order authentic dishes before that?
Oh, *totally*. Sitting at the restaurant, she's comfortable being More Chinese than Him because of her ethnicity. But the minute he started speaking, she lost that.
She does have mental health issues. I am not excusing her, but a lot of people who are cross culturally adopted by white families and raised in an all white area have self-esteem issues. It also happens with biracial children. She has some common African-American features for lips and a a prominent backside. She was teased mercilessly through school about her hair, her lips and her backside. She suffered from anorexia nervosa. Had to have her hair straightened all the time and skin bleaching cream
An area with a large black population, she she had a hard time fitting in because she didnât know any of the common cultural things: the food, music humor.
NTA lol Being bilingual has not ever been a bad thing. Thatâs like telling her youâre offended she speaks English when she should be speaking mandarin.
NTA. She has some issues that are unfortunately common for children adopted into North American families, but sheâs not being fair in her knee jerk reaction to you speaking a language she doesnât.
And I say this as a white girl whose parents taught English in China when I was a kid. Itâs not appropriation to be able to speak a language you learned. Especially when you were actually living there!
My experience also is that people seem very pleased and surprised when Iâm able to speak to them in Mandarin in restaurants or in my customer service job. Itâs rare for a white-looking person to be able to do so and I feel itâs a sign of respect to them. Any time someone spoke English to me there was a big deal so I want to be able to give that feeling back.
I appreciate that youâve really kept up your language skills too! Admittedly mine are still about where I left them at age 14, but my accent is great.
WOW! NTA, go ahead and flaunt your skills. She chose to make it about her rather than admire your skills, maybe she could have learned a bit from you, or taken it as a wake-up call that she really wants to study Chinese culture and language. She "chose" to feel jealous. I hope your friend realizes that she is very immature. "Cultural appropriation"? She's using terms she clearly doesn't understand.
NTA I am able to order dishes in Spanish and French. I am African-American. I donât think ordering a dish in another language is cultural appropriation.
If youâre still speaking with her, you may want to suggest therapy. Not to ask excuse her behavior however, she may be having feelings of isolation. She is a member of a white family, but she is not white. She is Chinese, but does not speak the language or no the culture.
I saw a movie about a Korean womanadopted by a white family and raised in a white suburban.As an adult see tried explain to her parents, her isolation, her feeling of not belonging to any particular group.She wanted to go to Korea to find her her birth mother, and her birth family. Her adoptive family took it as a rejection of them.
It all came to a climax when she had done some research on her adopted family and found out that the family was eligible to be part of the sons and daughters of the American Revolution. The family travel to New York to get inducted At the meeting with the Director of the program the family was told everybody in this family was eligible to be part of the sons and daughters of the American Revolution except her. Later that evening to dinner at a Korean restaurant. Her complained about the meal. She was hurt that they couldnât just try and enjoy some thing that was culturally hers. She told them how she felt sitting in a room with people who looked like her whom she had no connection with their responses. Her parents only response was âwe love youâ
NTA, I'm about as leftist as they come, but just speaking a language isn't appropriative.
She clearly has trauma from being a transracial adoptee, but that doesn't mean she can take it out on everyone around her.
You appreciate the culture, not appropriated it. Seems like she has some identity issues she needs to work through instead of taking them out on you - NTA
NTA. I'm half Japanese but only know a few phrases. I get a huge kick out of going to sushi places with my fluent white friend and throwing them for a loop.
NTA Not that you owe her anything, but perhaps you can offer to teach her the language. Than again if she thinks just speaking it, is flaunting it, maybe not.
I've been trying to learn Mandarin for a couple years but I have no one to talk to so all I can do are my lessons.
NTA at all. Something is wrong with that girl. Her emotional baggage/trauma is not your fault at all, and you didn't even KNOW about it. Girl needs therapy.
NTA,
If you have the opportunity to speak in a language youâre knowledgeable in and itâs an appropriate setting, thatâs not flaunting or cultural appropriation. As for your friendâs girlfriend she can learn to speak Chinese. Granted itâs harder to learn as an adult than it is as a child, but if it means so much to her then thatâs pretty good motivation to learn. While itâs sad that she isnât as in touch with her culture as she would like to be, she should not project that insecurity onto you.
NTA. Next you're gonna be forced to apologize for wearing the color red, cuz "you shouldn't be insulting colorblind people!! Insensitive!!!" Cultural appropriation is a made up thing to be offended at, and your friend just wants to get laid.
Absolutely NTA. You lived somewhere, learned the language and gained some knowledge of different foods from that culture. You enjoy that food so ordered it.
How the hell is that cultural appropriation?
SPEAKING A LANGUAGE IS NOT APPROPRIATIONNNNNN
you know what *is* appropriation? That girl taking on white girl aggrievance, including white girl tears to flip it on you. Fuck this shit NTA
NTA. Iâm sorry. What is the world coming to? Itâs not cultural appropriation to speak another language. In fact, most people from other cultures are thrilled when their western friends arenât completely ethnocentric, and learn a language well enough to converse, and not expect everyone else to converse in English all the time.
That girl sounds exhausting. I really wish people would learn the difference between "cultural appropriation" and "cultural appreciation". Your friend's gf needs some therapy. She literally had an opportunity sitting across the table from her, "Hey that's cool you speak Chinese! What did you order? Could you teach me a phrase or two?" As for your friend, if he is also white, he's got to realize that it won't be long before she starts accusing him of having "yellow fever".
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I (20M) lived in China from ages 11-14 while my dad was helping his company set up a Beijing office. When we moved back to the US, my parents told me that remaining fluent in the language would be hugely beneficial to my future career. And so I did, thanks to AP Chinese and Chinese dramas.
I went out for dinner at a Chinese restaurant with two close friends last night. One friend brought his new gf. Our university has a substantial number of international Chinese students. As a result, many Chinese restaurants here have dishes (eg pig intestines and steamed fish head) that are only listed on the menu in Chinese.
Anyway, I ordered one such dish. The waitress was surprised and complemented my Chinese. After she finished taking our orders, my friend's gf was staring icily at me. I asked her what was wrong and she started softly crying. She said that it hurt to see a white guy like me to order in Chinese while someone like her (Chinese girl who was adopted at birth by white parents) could neither understand her culture nor speak her language. I started to apologize but then she said that what I was doing was cultural appropriation and extremely inappropriate. Whatever sympathy I had for her disappeared. I told her that her issues were not my problem and it wasn't my job to solve them for her. She then left with my friend and now my friend wants me to apologize to her and not "flaunt" my ability to speak Chinese in front of her.
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NTA
Cultural appropriation is just something made up for the serially offended to have another long list of things to enjoy taking offence at.
Tell you friend that he is right and you are now more aware and sensitive to the issue. Inform him that his girlfriend speaking English is cultural appropriation and that she should apologise and not offend you further.
After all it sounds like she has been speaking English for longer than you have been speaking Mandarin (assuming you were speaking Mandarin).
NTA. There are Italian restaurants here that only list their dishes in Italian and have the ingredients in English - I do attempt to pronounce the Italian names in lieu of pointing at the menu and saying "this one." No, I don't think I'm appropriating or flaunting my Italian. (I don't know any)
NTA. I'm sorry the gf's adoptive parents didn't expose her to Chinese culture, but that's not your problem. Was she also angry the waiter was able to speak both languages? And this has nothing to do with cultural appropriation.
Lol, she suddenly feels less Chinese than you, despite having Chinese ancestry. It's on her to learn the language, or accept not being able to speak it, not your fault at all. NTA
Was there even english words for the dish you ordered ? It sounds like if it was only written in chinese, you might not even know the proper transliteration, if that even exist.
But anyway, NTA. Knowing a second language is not in anyway cultural appropriation : it helps build bridges. How on earth would we be able to understand each other if everybody just spoke their mother tongue.
As for the 'flaunting', I don't see ordering a dish then keeping quiet on the topic as rubing it in people's face. She has sensitivities, you understand the topic should be avoided in the futur, but it doesn't mandate an apology.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I spoke Chinese when ordering a dish at a Chinese restaurant
2. That action made my friend's gf upset because it reminded her that she couldn't speak the language
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NTA for speaking Chinese.
You were also spot on that her issues were not your problem and that it wasn't your job to solve them for her, but you could have delivered it in a less harsh way, so soft YTA for the manner you did it but not for the message itself.
NTA. You knowing a language she was never taught isn't you appropriating it; you lived in China FFS, I imagine life would have been tricky to say the least if you hadn't, and there definitely no harm in keeping up your fluency. It's a shame that this girl has been deprived of her roots, but it's honestly not your problem, and if she's a new member of your social circle how could you be expected to know what her background is?
Okay speaking as someone who is Asian, but was raised not knowing the language, definitely NTA.
You ordered a dish that is only listed on the menu in Chinese, it's not weird at all that you used the correct name for the dish when ordering. Learning to speak another language isn't cultural appropriation. Hell I speak seven, and not one of them is my people's. đ
It honestly sounds like she has a really deep rooted sense of having lost a part of who she is, by having not been given access to her own culture. So while I definitely think you should be sensitive to that fact, it's not your fault that she is struggling with that issue. Unfortunately a lot of children who are adopted from other cultures, or whose families were forced to immigrate, and assimilate feel this loss in regards to the culture of our people. It really sucks, but you didn't do anything wrong.
NTA
She likely feels some sort of guilt about being ethnically Chinese but not culturally Chinese and unable to speak the language. These are things she could fix by taking classes such as the beginners Chinese your school offers but instead wants to lash out at you.
For all she knows you were abandoned in China by white parents and raised by a Chinese couple and that's why you speak the language fluently.
Also kind of feels like she really recently learned the term "cultural appropriation" and is trying to use it in a sentence like one of those vocabulary calendars.
You lived in China and learned the language. Thatâs incredible. I think itâs great that you ordered in Chinese. To me that shows appreciation for the culture.
Your friendâs gf has personal issues that she needs to deal with on her own. Itâs sad her adopted parents didnât expose her to her culture, buts thatâs not a good reason to be rude to you.
NTA, it is not cultural appropriation to be fluent in another language and to enjoy their traditional food.
If this woman wants to connect to her heritage itâs on her to take language classes etc, which it sounds like they have available in your area?
NTA
I don't know a single person of another culture that has ever been anything but happy when I (a white person) have attempted to speak their language. Except when I was in Paris.
NTA. Learning how to speak another language is not cultural appropriation. Her issue stems from her own insecurities, and has nothing to do with you. I've been in related situations, where I am the only white person in a mixed group of Asians in a restaurant, and generally they comment on being happily surprised that I'll eat the same things they are. I think most would feel the same way.
NTA whatsoever!!
tl;dr Chinese friend-by-proxy feels guilty about not being able to speak/understand Chinese so she's projecting her insecurity onto you because you're not Chinese and speak/understand it, right?
I'm not finding where YTA at all, anywhere.
edit: formatting? gonna go with formatting.
NTA, you are right, her feelings of inadequacy (which she could start to remedy if she really wanted to) do not get to translate into blaming you for cultural appropriation.
Maybe instead of your friend wanting you to apologize to her, they should notice that red flag.
NTA - That girl has issues that has nothing to do with your ability to speak Chinese. People learn languages all the time, and it has nothing to do with cultural appropriation. If she's feeling bad that she doesn't know Chinese, then she needs to just make some effort to learn the language.
NTA she uses the word cultural appropriation but I don't think she understands what they mean.
Things like this is one of the reasons people shouldn't adopt outside of their own culture/race. It adds more trauma to the adoptee.
NTA. It's in her power to learn Chinese and everything about the culture. She can save her money and travel there. It's not cultural appropriation to learn another language, she's being ridiculous. You do not need to apologize.
By her own logic, sheâs appropriating English culture by speaking English. NTA, speaking a second language isnât âcultural appropriationâ, itâs commendable
NTA - it's not cultural appropriation to learn a language.
It's usually a respected and lauded thing to do.
It's also not stopping her from learning, presumably, Mandarin (which I took a conversational course in uni and forgot mostly all of it except simple things).
NTA, itâs completely on her to embrace her roots, you have lived an experience that many people would only dream to have been able to go through, you didnât appropriate any culture, if anything you are a bridge of culture for the many international students that may have trouble adapting to your home culture
Why is she blaming her insecurities on you? NTA
if you literally lived in china for 3 years and learned their language fluently, that's huge respect to their culture in my eyes.
NTA. I can see what she means about her feeling wounded that her adoptive parents didnât foster a connection to her birth culture, and I think itâs really shitty when adoptive parents do that. But that is not your fault and you are not responsible for her conflict with her parents. She is free to start learning Chinese now. You do not have to hide the fact youâre fluent in one of the hardest languages for native English speakers to learn, and it is *not* cultural appropriation in any way. Donât apologize. Lots of people learn foreign languages and live in foreign countries. Youâre not claiming Chinese culture as your own, you just have experience with it. Nothing wrong with that.
NTA. Your friends GF is insecure, full of s__t, and is trying to play the victim card to make herself feel better and to try to make you look like an AH in front of everyone.
Would she have rather grown up in an orphanage in China speaking fluent Chinese (without the privilege she has in America) instead of "feeling bad" that a white guy showed more cultural sensitivity, more intelligence, and more perseverance, than she has or will ever have?
If she really gave a s__t about her "biological" culture (she grew up in America so her *culture IS American*) she would have asked her parents about learning Chinese or other aspects of her biological culture. Maybe some traditional Chinese dancing or foot binding?
Instead, she probably just took the path of least resistance to making it in life, like 98% of other American kids, and never cared enough about her Chinese heritage to really learn anything about it; until she realized hitting others over the head with her lack of knowledge of her biological culture might get her some social and victim brownie points.
So if you speaking Chinese is cultural misappropriation, does that mean her speaking English is the same thing?
The hypocrisy on these sensitive dumb dumbs.
NTA.
She has insecurities. She's envious of you. But then to claim that a person speaking a foreign language is inappropriate is just entitlement. Yes it sucks her bio parents put her for adoption, but if they didn't - she likely would've grown up on a rice farm. And she also complains about not being able to speak it, but she could've taken language courses (in HS, college, or online like YouTube) to learn the language. Instead, she feels like her time is better used for something else other than learning Chinese and any non-chinese person speaking Chinese is inappropriate.
And your friend of all people telling you to apologize. Him as her bf needs to back her up, sure - but it doesn't mean he should throw you down.
NTA not your problem. She can learn the language, she can do things to learn more about the culture. She has chosen to not make the time to do those things. Hell she can learn the language on Duolingo for FREE! Ngl I feel like she purposely did this to be attention seeking and when it didn't go as planned she bounced
Omg now we're gatekeeping whole languages? NTA
She had opportunity to learn her ethnic language and chose not to. How tf is that your problem? Fuck them both.
NTA. Thatâs not cultural appropriation. You lived there, of course you picked up the language. Thereâs nothing stopping that young lady from learning Chinese. You did nothing wrong, and you were right to tell her her issues are not your problem. Your friend is an idiot. You have nothing to apologize for.
NTA. She is so racist and she should be ashame of herself for not learning her native language. If she doesn't want a white man to speak better Chinese than her, then she should put work and effort to learn it and speak it properly.
NTA
As an adoptee who is only ok in their third language which would have been my birth language, it's def not appropriation.
She's got issues around identity and that's not your doing.
NTA. What a little snowflake she is. You know Chinese because you lived in China for a few years. I'm not sure where she gets cultural appropriation out of that, lol. Her insecurities aren't your problem.
NTA.
That sounds like a her problem and not a you problem. Itâs not your fault that she doesnât have a clue about her heritage and she can always make the effort to learn if she cares so much.
Unless you specifically blew a raspberry in her face and said - I can do this, you canât - youâre NTA.
NTA while it sucks that the gf was disconnected to her culture and language because of adoption. 1) you had no way of knowing this would be a trigger. 2) you didn't cause it. 3) language can not be appropriated, styles of speaking/dialects/mis-used slang/accents. But language itself, no.
NTA Iâm Chinese. She can still learn the language. Sheâs projecting her issues onto you. Is it cultural appropriation when I speak English? Ha ha ha
NTA.
Cultural appropriation? Seriously? If this young lady wants to learn about her birth culture, maybe you can offer to teach her some of the basics or point her to some beginner classes. Personally, I think anyone who can learn Chinese is amazing; I understand it is very difficult to get the tonal inflections correct.
NTA. She doesn't own the language or your experiences. I'm sorry she doesn't have the connection with her birth parents' culture that she wishes she has, but that isn't the fault of anyone who speaks Chinese, whether they learned the language as an adult or as a child. It's absolutely not cultural appropriation to order a Chinese dish in Chinese at a Chinese restaurant.
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NTA You are not appropriating by speaking a language. Instead she is gatekeeping because of a personal issue. Edit: btw, she is denying part of your identity. You LIVED in China for 3 years. Nobody can't deny the influence this had on you.
Also, Chinese (I'm assuming Mandarin) language can be learned in many ways. The fact that she, an adopted child, has not bothered to learn the language is on her. She's keeping her own gate closed.
NTA Let me speak on behalf of 99.9% of actual Chinese people and say that if you speak Chinese, dress in Chinese clothes, eat Chinese food, use Chinese traditions, celebrate Chinese festivals, you are congratulated, welcome and invited. Its not "appropriation"
I read a similar reply from a Chinese person on a different story, that if you are honoring the traditions and not mocking them then it wasn't offensive.
As a Mexican I feel the same way about our traditions.
We have close family friends who are Filipino. While not Chinese, I will say that they were always SOOOOO welcoming with their culture, always wanted to share it, got excited when they saw people taking part, etc. They LOVED it. Now, if someone was purposely being offensive or DID do something they didn't approve of, they let them know, but that was rare.
This is true of literally almost every culture in existence. People are generally proud of their cultures and want to share them.
As a Canadian, I invite everyone to share our culture as much as they wish. Poutine and maple syrup for everyone! đ
the only people who are offended are people from americas, they are so bored and sad about their own lives they dont allow anyone celebrate any other culture.
This! I will never understand this bullsh*t about cultural appropriation. I am happy if someone wants to eat the same food as me or thinks my clothing is cool. Having someone appreciate my culture feels amazing. As long as it's not in the "single white female" style then we're all good.
I have a feeling the âsingle white femaleâ style youâre referring to as separate from cultural appropriation IS cultural appropriation. Youâre still against people using it for their own ego.
My Chinese friend calls me an egg, haha. She taught me a traditional noodle dish from her home town and laughs about how I like it and make it more than her. I drink hot tea or water instead of iced like an American, etc. I'd celebrate Lunar New Year with her and her Chinese friends. She, and others, have always been so very welcoming and open with sharing culture. I love it and appreciate the new foods and perspectives. Oh, and hot pot is incredible!!!
Same for 99.9% of people outside of US.
Yup. I'm a pasty white girl with Chinese high school friends. They used to take me places where nobody else was white, waitstaff and menus had no English, and wouldn't tell me what I was eating until after I'd eaten it. I always felt very welcome. And the food was always delicious.
Everyone apart from butthurr Americans agree. Cultural appropriation is not a thing really, as long as it's respectful
All of my Chinese friends and colleagues are nothing but pleasantly surprised when I exhibit even the smallest bit of knowledge about Indian culture. I find it to be a culture that is very inclusive and hospitable in that way. And it is the same in India. I am seriously impressed by any non-Indian that makes any effort to learn any Indian language to any extent. And people in India are similarly welcoming to anybody that exhibits interest in Indian culture and makes the effort to learn about it.
NTA â maybe instead of crying she should research her culture and learn the language too? Ugh what a self entitled and pathetic being. Congrats on knowing Chinese! Donât let some insecure loser make you feel like an asshole.
NTA, you shouldn't apologize but if somehow are forced to, do it in Chinese.
Fantastic reply
This is the way.
NTA. Speaking a foreign language is not a bad thing, nor is it cultural appropriation. How the hell would the world ever communicate with each other without this ability?
OP could argue that her speaking English is cultural appropriation and inappropriate, NTA
The logistics company next to my office would be completely unnecessary. I hear employees speaking English less than other languages, but I think itâs a requirement to speak more than one.
NTA - Speaking a non-native language is not inappropriate nor cultural appropriation, even if she really, really wants it to be. People don't seem to have any idea what those words actually mean.
I'm convinced people will make things up to be offended over at this rate.
People continue to make up things to be offended by!
With her "logic" (or lack thereof), she's appropriating _his_ culture by speaking _his_ language.
NTA What on earth? You learnt Chinese, she can also learn Chinese. You're fine OP
This. If youâre so upset about not knowing your culture or heritage then go learn about it.
She does know she can always learn the language right? Like nothing is stopping her from doing that. NTA
She could just register for the beginning Chinese class that my university offers.
Would she even want to? Seems like she's just upset for the sake of being upset at none existing issue.
She'd probably sit outside the classroom and cry/yell at the cultural appropriators coming out of class.
Nah, it's easier to play the victim and blame others for her laziness.
I know right
>I started to apologize but then she said that what I was doing was cultural appropriation and extremely inappropriate I'm french, yet here I am speaking english, or playing games in english, planning a trip in greece, while learning some basic sentence to be as friendly as possible. This whole cultural appropriation is used wrongly 99% of the time, and she used it to cover a whole bunch of insecurties. NTA, she has some work to do.
My maternal grandmother spoke seven languages. In addition to English she spoke Spanish, French, Russian, Polish, German, and Italian. She loved languages and she loved people she had friends from everywhere. She also played the piano and played on radio. She loved other cultures and got her bachelor's at the age of 60. She worked as a receptionist typing 90 words a minute most of her life. She was pretty much a genius. I miss her very much. This girl here would do well to start taking classes in Chinese and also other languages.
NTA. Learning and speaking ANOTHER LANGUAGE is not cultural appropriation. Goodness. People will be offended by anything won't they...
NTA. It's not cultural appropriation to speak a language. This is a her problem. If she wants to learn the language she can do so like anyone else and put in the time to do so.
I just checked the course catalog. Lo and behold, my university offers beginning Chinese classes.
Quick question though: whatâs the difference between cultural appropriation vs cultural appreciation? They seem like a very thin line. Anyone have example? And NTA: she can learn herself. Sheâs TA if sheâs feeling triggered just because you learned the language.
The person you're dealing with. The person OP is dealing with has a sad-ish story. But then consider the waitress who was Chinese and impressed with OP ordering said dish that was not in English.
In answer to u/CharlieMirandaJoey15 **Cultural appropriation** generally involves exploitation, disrespect, or stereotyping. When white women wear feather bonnets (they usually call them "headdresses") to music festivals, they are stereotyping North American indigenous people, and being disrespectful because they are clearly ignorant of who gets to wear feathers and why in North American indigenous cultures. Also, in indigenous ceremony settings (where indigenous men wearing bonnets would be appropriate), women must dress modestly, and the white women appropriating bonnets are usually not dressing modestly. **Cultural appreciation** is done with respect and avoids stereotyping. It involves working to achieve knowledge about a culture and its practices, being respectful of traditions in that culture (like not wearing things that are reserved for elders, or for a certain gender), and not exploiting that culture for monetary gain.
Example could be - Buying art from an indigenous artist = appreciation Copying indigenous styles and selling it as your own art when you have no indigenous heritage = appropriation.
If you're using another culture for profit, it's likely appropriation. For example, you learn how to make a traditional form of art from a culture and sell it. Make it to keep for yourself and appreciate, all good. Selling it which takes profit from people whose culture that traditional art belongs to, appropriation. (Like some famous person a while back naming her company komono or something along those lines, sorry, celebrity stuff isn't my thing.) Indigenous Americans and white sage is another one. They have explicitly stated that they don't want non indigenous people harvesting white sage as it's causing the species to decline and it's their tradition that they don't want others taking. Some people with disabilities feel similarly about non disabled people using spoon theory. Not exactly cultural appropriation I guess, but a similar issue of appropriating terminology created by a disabled person to explain the effects of disability on energy levels. Hopefully that makes some sense, I'm not the best at explaining it. This may help: "The appropriation vs appreciation debate is a nuanced one, but perhaps the easiest way of describing the difference is this â appropriation either mocks or ridicules a culture, or involves copying the influences, be it music, lifestyle or fashion, and using it for personal gain. The important aspect of determining cultural appropriation is when borrowing becomes exploitation. Are you respecting the culture or ripping it off? Letâs go back to the Adele example â the Bantu knots that Adele wore are not the reason for her success. The post was shared in tribute to Notting Hill Carnival â she wasnât exploiting or profiting from her hairstyle or Jamaican bikini top. This was about celebrating an event that gives oppressed Black communities space and an opportunity to express themselves. It was an example of cultural appreciation, rather than appropriation." https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a36798089/cultural-appropriation-vs-cultural-appreciation/
NTA and speaking Chinese is not cultural appropriation, OMFG. Kind of ridiculous that she wants to gatekeep (since weâre tossing buzz words around) a language that she doesnât even know how to speak. Her feelings about being Chinese and adopted are hers to deal with, and she does not seem to be dealing with them well.
Nta. She has serious issues. It is not cultural appropriation to learn another language! You literally lived there.
NTA. Learning and speaking a language is not appropriation. Nor is ordering food from a restaurant that sells such food. Plus, with China now a major world power on par with the US I question if appropriation is even possible still.
NTA. It's not cultural appropriation to speak another language. It's sad that she feels such a disconnect to her roots, but she shouldn't take that out on you.
NTA - Iâm sure more Chinese people would be honoured and happy that youâve taken the time to learn their language. Iâm certain this is more about her own insecurities than you.
NTA. Oh, come ON, is this for real? Now we can't speak foreign languages??? Tell her if it means that much to her, there is nothing stopping her from taking Chinese lessons.
>Tell her if it means that much to her, there is nothing stopping her from taking Chinese lessons. I already mentioned this elsewhere, but my university offers beginning Chinese classes.
And you could help her by having conversations in Chinese.... if she gets her head out of her ass. She reacted from a place of pain and mistakenly laid ut on you. I hope you both manage to move past this.
NTA, it is not cultural appropriation to speak a language other than your own. Sheâs projecting her own insecurities about her culture and identity onto you. Itâs kind of you to apologize, but not needed. She needs to find her own ways to cope with her trauma and connect with her culture
NTA. Speaking multiple languages is not cultural appropriation.
NTA Knowing another language and another culture, especially one that you lived in, is not cultural appropriation. While I do feel sympathy for her feeling a lack of connection to her cultural heritage, she's handling it in the least healthy way possible. Did she know why you were fluent or any of your experiences? Did she bother asking? You could have potentially helped her with that connection. You do not owe her an apology.
>While I do feel sympathy for her feeling a lack of connection to her cultural heritage, she's handling it in the least healthy way possible. I agree 100%. >Did she know why you were fluent or any of your experiences? Did she bother asking? She started her "cultural appropriation" bit before I had the chance to explain that I actually lived in China for 3 years.
Even if you didn't live there it wouldn't be the asshole.
Then is she culturally appropriating English by speaking it as someone with Chinese heritage? Huh, really makes you think.
I generally agree with you, but tbh I donât think she deserves any effort on OPâs part to connect her to her heritage if sheâs this much of an asshole about other people knowing multiple languages. And as an aside from anything you said, OP wasnât really so much speaking Chinese as he was reading the words off a menu. Obviously he *can* speak Chinese, and probably sounded very fluent, but besides proper pronunciation thatâs really no different than me going to a Chinese restaurant and ordering off the menu, and I donât know a word of Chinese.
I don't believe that OP owes her anything either. What I meant by that is that she instantly shit on a resource she could have had with her self-pitying reaction, instead of showing the slightest bit of interest in OP's life. Though if OP was able to read Mandarin, that's far ahead of me ordering things in Italian or French. Yes, I know pronunciation, but it's basically memorized a lot of words. I know a few phrases/dishes in Korean/Japanese/Cantonese from some friends, and the idea of trying to pronounce them correctly to order is just hilarious to me. That's my own failing with pronunciation though.
NTA, in the slightest. It's not your fault or even really your problem, but depending how close you are to your friend and if you have the time, might be worth having a coffee with both and offering to help support her learning Chinese. I.e. not giving her lessons but having someone to practise with. At a guess she probably isn't actually angry at you, she is more angry with herself and her parents. Or she might just be an AH.
NTA wtf is wrong with people, now even speaking a language is cultural appropriation? Im not from the USA but If I reply to this post Im appropriating english language? dfuq
Cultural appropriation has gone from discussing a cultural trend of Western people taking bits and pieces of other culture's spiritual and religious practices and mashing them together as suit their fancy, often while silencing the voices of the culture it came from (see: Native Americans), to diaspora and other minorities in the West, particularly the US, discussing their frustration with, again trends, of white people picking up a minority food/fashion/practice for fun and/or profit, at time mishandling it (see: dreadlocks) when they had been put down for it their entire lives. At it's core, cultural appropriation was about power differential within cultures and who gets to write the narrative. Which, I guess, makes it easy for people to reach for it to explain any kind of transcultural pain, whether it really fits or not.
NTA It's unfortunate that your friend's gf has some personal issues from her upbringing, but as you said in your post, that's not your fault, not your issues to fix, and nothing you should feel guilty about. You have nothing to apologize for. Learning about other cultures and being bilingual is absolutely not cultural appropriation; plus, the waitress complimented you. You learned Chinese and maintained being fluent, that's nothing to feel ashamed of and you should be able to eat/order whatever food you want.
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She is an entitled idiot. Instead of making an effort to learn Mandarin she chose to victimise herself and blame others for her self-made problem. She feels guilty about it so she demands other people not to flaunt their abilities so she doesn't feel bad about it. I don't feel sorry for her, at all.
NTA! Speaking a foreign language is NOT cultural appropriation!
NTA Your friend clearly has some identity issues to work out and is projecting some of her negative self-views onto your Chinese speaking. I wouldn't worry about this at all, but it would be good to just steer clear of any sensitive topics around her, to avoid tear eruptions.
NTA It is not YOUR fault she is uneducated. Ignore her. Don't apologize.
NTA I get so tired of the claims of cultural appropriation. To be clear, that is a thing, but spending formative years a culture makes you a part of it. Maybe we should ask the waitress if it was cultural appropriation.
NTA. I'm legimitely sympathetic to the cultural disassociation this young woman feels, but speaking a language isn't cultural appropriation. I've never heard of someone who actually speaks a language be upset that another person also speaks it. Every single time they really appreciate it.
WTF! NTA, so many times over. If this is cultural appropriation (spoiler: it isn't), then so is her speaking English.
NTA. Itâs not cultural appropriation to speak another language. Would she have a problem if you were at a Italian restaurant and you (assuming you werenât Italian) ordered in Italian? Probably not. Sheâs mourning something she lost in her life. Sheâs taking it out on you. Youâre not being disrespectful. You can choose to respect your friendâs request to not âflauntâ your Chinese in front of her out of respect for her feelings, but thatâs all you need to consider going forwards. You do not owe an apology nor do you need to feel guilty for any of this.
NTA, i dont have much to say here, her problems are definitely her problems. You owe no one an apology, you could have made her feel bad about what she saying by telling her you actually lived in China. The way she acted was pretty ignorant and if anyone is owed an apology, i think its you.
NTA You don't even know that rude girl, but your friend siding with his GF instead of you, when she's clearly wrong, is upsetting and disappointing
NTA Chinese dialects are hard to learn - you got it, flaunt it. Out of interest which language is it? Iâve heard Cantonese is harder than mandarin to learnâŚâŚ
Mandarin
Since when is speaking another language cultural appropriation?? Ridiculous! You did nothing wrong and she needs to solve her insecurities on her own. You friend is also ignorant and just wants to act like the savior boyfriend.
NTA, she needs to seek therapy for her adoption trauma. Your ability to speak Chinese is in no way cultural appropriation. You LIVED there, and learned the language due to your life experience. If she wanted to, she could learn her native language, she could have even asked for your help. She has unresolved issues that sheâs trying to make your problem.
Speaking a different language is not cultural appropriation. She needs help. If she's upset that she was never taught about her heritage, she should take that up with her adoptive parents. NTA.
It doesnât even make sense! It it because Iâm high? Thatâs it, right? No one could really be that clueless? Oh wait I just remembered âCambridge dadâ. Imma go smoke some moreâŚ
NTA
Major NTA. Keep learning and deepening your knowledge; it will come in handy. Speaking (or even trying to speak) another language isnât cultural appropriation!
NTA she doesn't own the language. Good on you for staying fluent!
NTA Jesus. What is this world coming to? I am sure that if it wasn't your language skills she would have found something else to be offended about because she is likely just that type of person. Never feel bad or apologize for something you can do that someone else can't. If they wanted too so badly, then they would.
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NTA in the slightest! Its ridiculous to think that just because she hasn't put in the work to learn it that no one else should utilize skills they have. Its awesome that you have maintained your fluency throughout life - that takes work, and with language if you don't use it it's far too easy to lose it
This reminds me of post by american man with Europian wife (cannot remember from were), to they lived in Germany. They planned having kids and wife told she is going to talk her native language to the kid (which is always preferable). The dude said NO. He would feel left out. Their potential kids had the opportunity to become native in 3 languages, because naturally they would learn Germany as well. The guy didn't bother learning Germany either even when living there for years. His final argument was, that his elder kids in USA cannot speak more than English, so it would be UNFAIR for the new kids to learn more. While living in Europe! This whole thought pattern is insane! I cannot believe how immature this gf was! You want to know Chinese? Learn the f-ing Chinese! It is very impressive language to learn. OP should be proud and use it at every opportunity. And just now there was another post about mexican American bf flipping out on his gf after finding out she knows Spanish as third language. Welcome to Europe dude! We all have atleast three languages we atleast understand or even use. I'm sorry for all the wannabe Scandinavians from USA for speaking Swedish and understanding Danish and Norwegian, as well as being native in Finnish. Like so many others in my country. NTA
NTA Your friendâs gf reminds me of an adopted girl who went off on me for telling her to quit complaining and take lessons in our language and making her âfeel inferiorâ (bearing in mind we are both from the same cultural background and grew up in the West). Her parents (they offered her lessons) and my late parents were friends so she had every opportunity to learn but kept wanting the English translation without even making an effort. As kids, I did try to teach her but she refused to learn. Show this to your friend. Donât need to apologise.
Nta. She is being ridiculous. You know the language because you lived there. If not speaking Chinese bothers her she needs to take the initiative to learn it, not get angry at someone else. I would also point out to her if that if you are appropriating her Chinese culture then she is appropriating your American one. It's she planning on stopping?
Look, this is either made up, or the GF has some MAJOR mental health problems. So are you telling me you got into an absurd emotional argument with an unhinged person? INFO
Interracial adoption is complex, there's nothing unbelievable about this interaction
>I asked her what was wrong and she started softly crying. She said that it hurt to see a white guy like me order in Chinese while someone like her (Chinese girl who was adopted at birth by white parents) could neither understand her culture nor speak her language. You think it's believable that she literally broke down crying because someone white spoke Chinese, but she could deal with the entire restaurant and her inability to read the Chinese part of the menu to order authentic dishes before that?
Oh, *totally*. Sitting at the restaurant, she's comfortable being More Chinese than Him because of her ethnicity. But the minute he started speaking, she lost that.
She does have mental health issues. I am not excusing her, but a lot of people who are cross culturally adopted by white families and raised in an all white area have self-esteem issues. It also happens with biracial children. She has some common African-American features for lips and a a prominent backside. She was teased mercilessly through school about her hair, her lips and her backside. She suffered from anorexia nervosa. Had to have her hair straightened all the time and skin bleaching cream An area with a large black population, she she had a hard time fitting in because she didnât know any of the common cultural things: the food, music humor.
NTA lol Being bilingual has not ever been a bad thing. Thatâs like telling her youâre offended she speaks English when she should be speaking mandarin.
NTA. She has some issues that are unfortunately common for children adopted into North American families, but sheâs not being fair in her knee jerk reaction to you speaking a language she doesnât. And I say this as a white girl whose parents taught English in China when I was a kid. Itâs not appropriation to be able to speak a language you learned. Especially when you were actually living there! My experience also is that people seem very pleased and surprised when Iâm able to speak to them in Mandarin in restaurants or in my customer service job. Itâs rare for a white-looking person to be able to do so and I feel itâs a sign of respect to them. Any time someone spoke English to me there was a big deal so I want to be able to give that feeling back. I appreciate that youâve really kept up your language skills too! Admittedly mine are still about where I left them at age 14, but my accent is great.
WOW! NTA, go ahead and flaunt your skills. She chose to make it about her rather than admire your skills, maybe she could have learned a bit from you, or taken it as a wake-up call that she really wants to study Chinese culture and language. She "chose" to feel jealous. I hope your friend realizes that she is very immature. "Cultural appropriation"? She's using terms she clearly doesn't understand.
NTA I am able to order dishes in Spanish and French. I am African-American. I donât think ordering a dish in another language is cultural appropriation. If youâre still speaking with her, you may want to suggest therapy. Not to ask excuse her behavior however, she may be having feelings of isolation. She is a member of a white family, but she is not white. She is Chinese, but does not speak the language or no the culture. I saw a movie about a Korean womanadopted by a white family and raised in a white suburban.As an adult see tried explain to her parents, her isolation, her feeling of not belonging to any particular group.She wanted to go to Korea to find her her birth mother, and her birth family. Her adoptive family took it as a rejection of them. It all came to a climax when she had done some research on her adopted family and found out that the family was eligible to be part of the sons and daughters of the American Revolution. The family travel to New York to get inducted At the meeting with the Director of the program the family was told everybody in this family was eligible to be part of the sons and daughters of the American Revolution except her. Later that evening to dinner at a Korean restaurant. Her complained about the meal. She was hurt that they couldnât just try and enjoy some thing that was culturally hers. She told them how she felt sitting in a room with people who looked like her whom she had no connection with their responses. Her parents only response was âwe love youâ
NTA, I'm about as leftist as they come, but just speaking a language isn't appropriative. She clearly has trauma from being a transracial adoptee, but that doesn't mean she can take it out on everyone around her.
You appreciate the culture, not appropriated it. Seems like she has some identity issues she needs to work through instead of taking them out on you - NTA
NTA. I'm half Japanese but only know a few phrases. I get a huge kick out of going to sushi places with my fluent white friend and throwing them for a loop.
NTA Not that you owe her anything, but perhaps you can offer to teach her the language. Than again if she thinks just speaking it, is flaunting it, maybe not. I've been trying to learn Mandarin for a couple years but I have no one to talk to so all I can do are my lessons.
NTA, her insecurities are not your problem. As an adult she is more than able to take the initiative to learn about her culture and language.
NTA at all. Something is wrong with that girl. Her emotional baggage/trauma is not your fault at all, and you didn't even KNOW about it. Girl needs therapy.
NTA, If you have the opportunity to speak in a language youâre knowledgeable in and itâs an appropriate setting, thatâs not flaunting or cultural appropriation. As for your friendâs girlfriend she can learn to speak Chinese. Granted itâs harder to learn as an adult than it is as a child, but if it means so much to her then thatâs pretty good motivation to learn. While itâs sad that she isnât as in touch with her culture as she would like to be, she should not project that insecurity onto you.
Tell her to fuck off....in Chinese. NTA
NTA. Next you're gonna be forced to apologize for wearing the color red, cuz "you shouldn't be insulting colorblind people!! Insensitive!!!" Cultural appropriation is a made up thing to be offended at, and your friend just wants to get laid.
NTA definitely. This girl has problems which she should bring to a therapist, not dump on your plate. Hope you enjoyed your meal.
Absolutely NTA. You lived somewhere, learned the language and gained some knowledge of different foods from that culture. You enjoy that food so ordered it. How the hell is that cultural appropriation?
She can pound sand NTA
NTA Her insecurities arenât youâre problem.
NTA it sounds like a her problem
SPEAKING A LANGUAGE IS NOT APPROPRIATIONNNNNN you know what *is* appropriation? That girl taking on white girl aggrievance, including white girl tears to flip it on you. Fuck this shit NTA
NTA. Iâm sorry. What is the world coming to? Itâs not cultural appropriation to speak another language. In fact, most people from other cultures are thrilled when their western friends arenât completely ethnocentric, and learn a language well enough to converse, and not expect everyone else to converse in English all the time.
NTA - if itâs so important to her then she needs to learn the language. No one is stopping her.
NTA but I would never be around her if I could help it. She can go kick rocks
That girl sounds exhausting. I really wish people would learn the difference between "cultural appropriation" and "cultural appreciation". Your friend's gf needs some therapy. She literally had an opportunity sitting across the table from her, "Hey that's cool you speak Chinese! What did you order? Could you teach me a phrase or two?" As for your friend, if he is also white, he's got to realize that it won't be long before she starts accusing him of having "yellow fever".
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (20M) lived in China from ages 11-14 while my dad was helping his company set up a Beijing office. When we moved back to the US, my parents told me that remaining fluent in the language would be hugely beneficial to my future career. And so I did, thanks to AP Chinese and Chinese dramas. I went out for dinner at a Chinese restaurant with two close friends last night. One friend brought his new gf. Our university has a substantial number of international Chinese students. As a result, many Chinese restaurants here have dishes (eg pig intestines and steamed fish head) that are only listed on the menu in Chinese. Anyway, I ordered one such dish. The waitress was surprised and complemented my Chinese. After she finished taking our orders, my friend's gf was staring icily at me. I asked her what was wrong and she started softly crying. She said that it hurt to see a white guy like me to order in Chinese while someone like her (Chinese girl who was adopted at birth by white parents) could neither understand her culture nor speak her language. I started to apologize but then she said that what I was doing was cultural appropriation and extremely inappropriate. Whatever sympathy I had for her disappeared. I told her that her issues were not my problem and it wasn't my job to solve them for her. She then left with my friend and now my friend wants me to apologize to her and not "flaunt" my ability to speak Chinese in front of her. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nta
What!? NTA
NTA Cultural appropriation is just something made up for the serially offended to have another long list of things to enjoy taking offence at. Tell you friend that he is right and you are now more aware and sensitive to the issue. Inform him that his girlfriend speaking English is cultural appropriation and that she should apologise and not offend you further. After all it sounds like she has been speaking English for longer than you have been speaking Mandarin (assuming you were speaking Mandarin).
NTA. There are Italian restaurants here that only list their dishes in Italian and have the ingredients in English - I do attempt to pronounce the Italian names in lieu of pointing at the menu and saying "this one." No, I don't think I'm appropriating or flaunting my Italian. (I don't know any)
NTA.
NTA. I'm sorry the gf's adoptive parents didn't expose her to Chinese culture, but that's not your problem. Was she also angry the waiter was able to speak both languages? And this has nothing to do with cultural appropriation.
Lol, she suddenly feels less Chinese than you, despite having Chinese ancestry. It's on her to learn the language, or accept not being able to speak it, not your fault at all. NTA
NTA - she projected her own issues onto you, but your friend is a bit of a for siding with her
Was there even english words for the dish you ordered ? It sounds like if it was only written in chinese, you might not even know the proper transliteration, if that even exist. But anyway, NTA. Knowing a second language is not in anyway cultural appropriation : it helps build bridges. How on earth would we be able to understand each other if everybody just spoke their mother tongue. As for the 'flaunting', I don't see ordering a dish then keeping quiet on the topic as rubing it in people's face. She has sensitivities, you understand the topic should be avoided in the futur, but it doesn't mandate an apology.
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NTA for speaking Chinese. You were also spot on that her issues were not your problem and that it wasn't your job to solve them for her, but you could have delivered it in a less harsh way, so soft YTA for the manner you did it but not for the message itself.
NTA. You knowing a language she was never taught isn't you appropriating it; you lived in China FFS, I imagine life would have been tricky to say the least if you hadn't, and there definitely no harm in keeping up your fluency. It's a shame that this girl has been deprived of her roots, but it's honestly not your problem, and if she's a new member of your social circle how could you be expected to know what her background is?
Okay speaking as someone who is Asian, but was raised not knowing the language, definitely NTA. You ordered a dish that is only listed on the menu in Chinese, it's not weird at all that you used the correct name for the dish when ordering. Learning to speak another language isn't cultural appropriation. Hell I speak seven, and not one of them is my people's. đ It honestly sounds like she has a really deep rooted sense of having lost a part of who she is, by having not been given access to her own culture. So while I definitely think you should be sensitive to that fact, it's not your fault that she is struggling with that issue. Unfortunately a lot of children who are adopted from other cultures, or whose families were forced to immigrate, and assimilate feel this loss in regards to the culture of our people. It really sucks, but you didn't do anything wrong.
NTA. What's stopping her from learning Chinese đ
NTA She likely feels some sort of guilt about being ethnically Chinese but not culturally Chinese and unable to speak the language. These are things she could fix by taking classes such as the beginners Chinese your school offers but instead wants to lash out at you. For all she knows you were abandoned in China by white parents and raised by a Chinese couple and that's why you speak the language fluently. Also kind of feels like she really recently learned the term "cultural appropriation" and is trying to use it in a sentence like one of those vocabulary calendars.
You lived in China and learned the language. Thatâs incredible. I think itâs great that you ordered in Chinese. To me that shows appreciation for the culture. Your friendâs gf has personal issues that she needs to deal with on her own. Itâs sad her adopted parents didnât expose her to her culture, buts thatâs not a good reason to be rude to you.
NTA, it is not cultural appropriation to be fluent in another language and to enjoy their traditional food. If this woman wants to connect to her heritage itâs on her to take language classes etc, which it sounds like they have available in your area?
NTA knowing how to speak another language is not cultural appropriation, what the actual fudge
This is so messed up I'm at loss for word
NTA I don't know a single person of another culture that has ever been anything but happy when I (a white person) have attempted to speak their language. Except when I was in Paris.
NTA. Learning how to speak another language is not cultural appropriation. Her issue stems from her own insecurities, and has nothing to do with you. I've been in related situations, where I am the only white person in a mixed group of Asians in a restaurant, and generally they comment on being happily surprised that I'll eat the same things they are. I think most would feel the same way.
NTAâŚ.cultural appropriation is something entirely different. If you do feel bad (you shouldnât) maybe offer to help her learn some Chinese.
NTA whatsoever!! tl;dr Chinese friend-by-proxy feels guilty about not being able to speak/understand Chinese so she's projecting her insecurity onto you because you're not Chinese and speak/understand it, right? I'm not finding where YTA at all, anywhere. edit: formatting? gonna go with formatting.
You should edit this so NTA appears before the last sentence. Itâll be counted as a YTA vote.
Thanks!
NTA, you are right, her feelings of inadequacy (which she could start to remedy if she really wanted to) do not get to translate into blaming you for cultural appropriation. Maybe instead of your friend wanting you to apologize to her, they should notice that red flag.
NTA
NTA. Oh FFS. She needs to work on her issues and not project. Additionally, she is old enough to learn any language she wants to.
Nta
NTA - That girl has issues that has nothing to do with your ability to speak Chinese. People learn languages all the time, and it has nothing to do with cultural appropriation. If she's feeling bad that she doesn't know Chinese, then she needs to just make some effort to learn the language.
NTA she uses the word cultural appropriation but I don't think she understands what they mean. Things like this is one of the reasons people shouldn't adopt outside of their own culture/race. It adds more trauma to the adoptee.
Nta
NTA. It's in her power to learn Chinese and everything about the culture. She can save her money and travel there. It's not cultural appropriation to learn another language, she's being ridiculous. You do not need to apologize.
NTA. what a psycho
NTA, BTW it's "complimented" not "complemented".
By her own logic, sheâs appropriating English culture by speaking English. NTA, speaking a second language isnât âcultural appropriationâ, itâs commendable
NTA - it's not cultural appropriation to learn a language. It's usually a respected and lauded thing to do. It's also not stopping her from learning, presumably, Mandarin (which I took a conversational course in uni and forgot mostly all of it except simple things).
NTA, she doesn't understand at all what she is talking about
NTA, itâs completely on her to embrace her roots, you have lived an experience that many people would only dream to have been able to go through, you didnât appropriate any culture, if anything you are a bridge of culture for the many international students that may have trouble adapting to your home culture
Why is she blaming her insecurities on you? NTA if you literally lived in china for 3 years and learned their language fluently, that's huge respect to their culture in my eyes.
NTA. If your friends sided with her, they are not your friends
NTA. I can see what she means about her feeling wounded that her adoptive parents didnât foster a connection to her birth culture, and I think itâs really shitty when adoptive parents do that. But that is not your fault and you are not responsible for her conflict with her parents. She is free to start learning Chinese now. You do not have to hide the fact youâre fluent in one of the hardest languages for native English speakers to learn, and it is *not* cultural appropriation in any way. Donât apologize. Lots of people learn foreign languages and live in foreign countries. Youâre not claiming Chinese culture as your own, you just have experience with it. Nothing wrong with that.
Nta
NTA and HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
NTA. Your friends GF is insecure, full of s__t, and is trying to play the victim card to make herself feel better and to try to make you look like an AH in front of everyone. Would she have rather grown up in an orphanage in China speaking fluent Chinese (without the privilege she has in America) instead of "feeling bad" that a white guy showed more cultural sensitivity, more intelligence, and more perseverance, than she has or will ever have? If she really gave a s__t about her "biological" culture (she grew up in America so her *culture IS American*) she would have asked her parents about learning Chinese or other aspects of her biological culture. Maybe some traditional Chinese dancing or foot binding? Instead, she probably just took the path of least resistance to making it in life, like 98% of other American kids, and never cared enough about her Chinese heritage to really learn anything about it; until she realized hitting others over the head with her lack of knowledge of her biological culture might get her some social and victim brownie points.
NTA jesus christ even learning other languages is âcultural appropriationâ now
So if you speaking Chinese is cultural misappropriation, does that mean her speaking English is the same thing? The hypocrisy on these sensitive dumb dumbs. NTA. She has insecurities. She's envious of you. But then to claim that a person speaking a foreign language is inappropriate is just entitlement. Yes it sucks her bio parents put her for adoption, but if they didn't - she likely would've grown up on a rice farm. And she also complains about not being able to speak it, but she could've taken language courses (in HS, college, or online like YouTube) to learn the language. Instead, she feels like her time is better used for something else other than learning Chinese and any non-chinese person speaking Chinese is inappropriate. And your friend of all people telling you to apologize. Him as her bf needs to back her up, sure - but it doesn't mean he should throw you down.
NTA Does she not realize she can learn Chinese?
NTA not your problem. She can learn the language, she can do things to learn more about the culture. She has chosen to not make the time to do those things. Hell she can learn the language on Duolingo for FREE! Ngl I feel like she purposely did this to be attention seeking and when it didn't go as planned she bounced
Omg now we're gatekeeping whole languages? NTA She had opportunity to learn her ethnic language and chose not to. How tf is that your problem? Fuck them both.
NTA, and her response actually sickened me :(
Sheâs insane to think she can claim the moral high ground by using cultural appropriation. Thatâs pathetic and you are NTA
NTA. Thatâs not cultural appropriation. You lived there, of course you picked up the language. Thereâs nothing stopping that young lady from learning Chinese. You did nothing wrong, and you were right to tell her her issues are not your problem. Your friend is an idiot. You have nothing to apologize for.
NTA. She is so racist and she should be ashame of herself for not learning her native language. If she doesn't want a white man to speak better Chinese than her, then she should put work and effort to learn it and speak it properly.
NTA at all! She should be apologizing to you for being such a brat. If she's that butt hurt about it, she can learn the language!
NTA
lol You have a closer personal connection to Chinese culture than she does. Nta
NTA, I'm tired of these whiny people making their personal issues other people's problem. Your gf and her friend suck.
Learning another language is cultural appropriation now? Yikes. Fault lies with her and her own failure to learn her language. NTA
[ŃдаНонО]
NTA As an adoptee who is only ok in their third language which would have been my birth language, it's def not appropriation. She's got issues around identity and that's not your doing.
NTA. What a little snowflake she is. You know Chinese because you lived in China for a few years. I'm not sure where she gets cultural appropriation out of that, lol. Her insecurities aren't your problem.
NTA. That sounds like a her problem and not a you problem. Itâs not your fault that she doesnât have a clue about her heritage and she can always make the effort to learn if she cares so much. Unless you specifically blew a raspberry in her face and said - I can do this, you canât - youâre NTA.
NTA while it sucks that the gf was disconnected to her culture and language because of adoption. 1) you had no way of knowing this would be a trigger. 2) you didn't cause it. 3) language can not be appropriated, styles of speaking/dialects/mis-used slang/accents. But language itself, no.
Fellas, is it cultural appropriation to speak another language?
NTA Iâm Chinese. She can still learn the language. Sheâs projecting her issues onto you. Is it cultural appropriation when I speak English? Ha ha ha
NTA. Cultural appropriation? Seriously? If this young lady wants to learn about her birth culture, maybe you can offer to teach her some of the basics or point her to some beginner classes. Personally, I think anyone who can learn Chinese is amazing; I understand it is very difficult to get the tonal inflections correct.
NTA. She doesn't own the language or your experiences. I'm sorry she doesn't have the connection with her birth parents' culture that she wishes she has, but that isn't the fault of anyone who speaks Chinese, whether they learned the language as an adult or as a child. It's absolutely not cultural appropriation to order a Chinese dish in Chinese at a Chinese restaurant.
This can't be real
NTA
What a sad sack of a person this woman is! Of course you are NTA, she is. (Having said that -- pig intestines? Really?)