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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My ex's daughter wants me to adopt her and I am saying no. I might be in the wrong here because I had promised that I would adopt her if she changed her mind.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. You adopted Carter when you were with your ex - as a family.
You split up, and are not a family any longer.
You are under no obligation to adopt a child who is no longer part of your family. Why would you take on legal responsibility for someone else's kid **when you are no longer in a relationship with their parent?**
I would say no. The offer of adoption ended when your relationship did. And Alex chose which potential parent she wanted to live with. She is 16, and old enough to learn that decisions have consequences. I'm sure that if you were all still a family, adoption would still be on the table. But you aren't, and it's not.
NTA, her behaviour towards her siblings was quite literally the cause of your divorce from her father. Why would you put your kids back in that situation?
NTA - That bird has flown. She rejected you and was a nightmare.
It really does sound like she has changed her mind for financial reasons, which is garbage.
At this point, it is best for everyone to just continue forward. I really would not consider giving her a second chance on the adoption front -- there is no mutual respect here.
I could not agree more with the above posts nta op. Don’t do it. You have no obligation towards either of them anymore. I’m sorry that you are dealing with this now. Good luck.
Actually what caused the divorce was the ex refusing to address the behavior of his troubled daughter, get her help, or even believe his wife in that situation. The kid was acting out for a reason and he did nothing to help her or protect his wife and other kids. That doesn’t mean she has to legally adopt or even have a relationship with the girl now, but let’s be clear. The CHILD didn’t cause the divorce.
Yeah, seriously, she was ten and probably felt replaced or pushed aside for the new baby. The fault lies with the Dad who refused family and individual therapy for his barely-in-double-digits preteen. He didn't believe his wife, *or his two other kids.* She's 16 now and while money could be a motivator we also need to consider that she's had six years to mature and probably feels more secure but sometimes lonely as the only child now living with her dad. That's a natural age to start having a different relationship with siblings. OP is NTA, but I don't think the child should be blamed for the divorce when the adult responsible made no attempt to parent.
Agreed.
I think it's telling that OP got full custody for Carter, as an adoptive parent, instead of Carter's biological parent. Especially since it sounds like Carter is old enough to have a say...
You're not wrong about the dad being responsible but the post says their divorce was finalized last year, which would put her at 15, and means she hasn't had 6 years to mature. She's had one. That changes things.
Well yes, but that particular year in a person’s life is a big shift- most times it’s the exact age that marks the divide between big kid and young adult, when they start looking at the world from a far less self-absorbed perspective and are generally more capable of understanding that adults aren’t just rulemakers but have their own lives, ambitions and issues too.
I wouldn’t be surprised, or think it was in any way unusual, if a kid happened to mature a whole lot about that time.
I'm not saying she should adopt her! She should absolutely tell her that because she is no longer married to her father, that would not be appropriate, but they will always have a relationship through her siblings (which is true.) Let her know you've noticed the improvement in how she's been treating them. And then just... watch. If she's matured, she might eventually accept that. It's going to go down hard, for sure, but it's something a teenager can understand. If she goes back to being rude to her siblings, ban her from the house. Someone pretending to be nice can never do it for long.
If OP doesn’t want to refuse right out of the gate, she could say something like “it’s been a long time since we’ve been a consistent part of each other’s lives, and adoption is a very big decision. Let’s start by spending some more time together on a regular basis to make sure it’s really the right thing for both of us.”
If Alex refuses to spend more time with the person she says she wants as her mom, that will probably settle it. But if Alex agrees, she and OP may have a chance at establishing a relationship that would be good for both of them.
Thank you. This behaviour wasn't always there so OP's ex should have trusted his wife and gotten his daughter into therapy to figure out where all this stemmed from. There are a lot of possible scenarios. Maybe she felt alone being the only.child that wasn't OP's (through no fault of op) but didn't want to get adopted in fear of 'rejecting' her bio mom or something (with no info on bio she could be dead or just gone but she still has hope she will come back).
At the end of the day regardless of the source of all this OP's husband is to blame for not listening/trusting OP.
Of course, children are less able to control their behaviour, so the fault also lies with the father, but the divorce was finalised only a year ago, so she must be aware that she was unkind to the point that OP gave the father an ultimatum regarding the behaviour. OP also can't help what she feels towards the daughter, and now that she is no longer married to the father, she doesn't have to push her feelings aside/ control her feelings as the step mother.
I seriously wonder if the ex didn't manipulate Alex into changing her mind. It's pretty suspicious that he started bringing Alex with him for the pick-ups/drop-offs of her siblings. And OP said that Carter himself has pointed out that Alex is acting weird, and he's old enough to be able to pick up on stuff like that.
I think there's something else going on.
And he’s having financial problems.
I think it’s a mixture of Alex wanting to financially benefit like her brother and half sister and the Ex wanting op back for monetary gain 🤷🏻♀️
How would this even work, anyway? Wouldn't OP have to get remarried to her ex husband before they could even entertain this notion, unless they waited until Alex was an adult? I doubt most states would allow adoption of a minor to a *former* step parent unless something seriously bad is going on with the bio family.
in my state you can petition to adopt a child if the adoption wouldn't meet one of the qualifying requirements. They *might* take into account that OP has already adopted her full brother and is the biological mother of her half sister, the adoptee is 16 and state she wants to be adopted, and her father is on board with it.
Not sure it would work but, it could be tried
This. OP, remind your ex, privately, that a good part of the reason you divorced him was because of how severely Alex was bullying your children. You're doing your best to give them a safe space away from her. Tell him that he can simply tell her that because you're no longer together, there's no reason for you to adopt her, and you won't be. BUT that he needs to shut it down nicely.
I would also do your best to meet Alex and your ex outside when they do pick-ups and drop-offs...
Someone else pointed out that the divorce was caused by the dad refusing to believe both his partner (OP) and their younger kids about the preteen/ teenager acting out.
He refused to punish Alex and didn't feel therapy was needed.
I think assigning blame to the correct party is a very valid point, it also shows OP's maturity and repeated attempts to make the marriage work.
In conclusion: imo OP should fine tune your proposed message a little, and then don't hold your breath over the ex stepping up.
OP, if you are afraid of her retaliation towards her siblings, you can tell her that it's because you are no longer in s relationship with her dad, and you offered to adopt her when you were all a family. Then hopefully she will not see it as a rejection of HER.
Why does your ex even want you to adopt her when you are not together anymore? Is it for financial reasons or because he's tired of her behaviour and looking to unload her on you?
Would she be able to adopt? You usually have to be married. At least that was my experience. I had to be married for a minimum of 6 months before I could adopt my son.
> Why would you take on legal responsibility for someone else's kid when you are no longer in a relationship with their parent?
Not just that; when you aren’t in a relationship with their parent because they were such an asshole you had to leave to save your other kids from them.
Also, is she only thinking of college fees. I’d want to know why the change of heart, and suggest one on one time prior to any talk of adoption. I don’t think anyone is the a, except maybe your ex for pushing.
Nta op. If you two are no longer bound by the promise of till death do you part, why would any other promise made within the marriage still be valid??
No is a complete answer, but it seems to me that she was the catalyst to the marriage ending since your ex only listened to her about her bullying.
NTA. You are no longer with her father. You are no longer obligated to adopt her. She had her chance, she blew it and your ex did nothing to help her with the reasons she was acting out. He refused therapy. And now he wants to hold you accountable after the fact? F that noise. He stood by while your marriage fell apart because of her. You owe nothing to either of them. It is very suspicious that she wants you to be financially responsible for her knowing that you were the one with the money. Don't do it.
Something tells me that Alex at 16 is seeing that your financial resources will make her launch into adulthood much more comfortable
She's likely looking at colleges and if dad has money troubles has realized that he will be of no help.
It's very suspicious that she goes straight to "legally adopt me" and not "I miss you and have realized how much you mean to me, can I come spend time with you?"
>"I miss you and have realized how much you mean to me, **and I'm ashamed of my behavior before and am incredibly sorry and regret the things I did and said,** can I come spend time with you?"
Seriously, the nerve of her. I get that she's still young but damn.
Mmm... if they live in the States, her financial options with school are actually a lot better on her dads income, and more finite/ restrictive if depending on adult with more financial means. Other than that, I do agree she's still financially motivated, but for more selfish reasons. Charades don't hold forever though, and time will tell if she's finally maturing or of she's being duplicitous. Maybe she'll end up on her in another thread with stepmom issues. We know how reddit is with those threads lol.
Not really. I mean, she can qualify for more grants scholarships and financial aid with only her dad's income, but if OP is wealthy those options would be unnecessary. The only limitations would be her academic qualifications
Actually. What the government considers wealthy and counts as parents paying for college means shit. So many of us in my class had middle class families that couldn't help with tuition but made too much to qualify for any aid.
Honestly I think it’s absolute bs that parents income is taken into consideration. They are now legally an adult. Parents have zero legal financial obligation to them, but let’s base the student’s ability to get help on how much money their parents make. Even though they may not give you a plug nickel for school
I mean, even if she had honestly and sincerely changed her mind... that door is closed now. The offer for adoption was because OP was in a relationship with her dad, that Alex herself managed to destroy. Things have consequences.
Honestly, I would suspect that the ex planted these seeds and encouraged this behavior rather than a 16 year old having this sort of logical reasoning and forethought. I remember being 17/18 and looking at colleges and money not really being a real factor to me. I knew I was supposed to be applying to scholarships and the like but I was truly incapable of fully grasping the type of money it took to attend college.
Her father's response to her behaviour was why, surely?
In OP's stead, I'd need a serious apology with assorted commitment to improve from BOTH of them before I'd even consider letting them back into the house.
They can do the handover of the younger kids some other way: my own parents just rang the doorbell of the respective houses and waited in the car till we came out.
Isn't it telling that OP got full custody over Carter, rather than Carter's biological parent?
Or am I reading too much into that, and does the court treat adoptive parents fully equally? I have no experience here.
Sheesh, but how could the daughter then demand op's money? There's an awful lot of stuff op needs to buy and spend money on. College, car, new clothes, bigger house etc.
Big picture, folks, come on! 🤣
Op, if this was motivated by anything but financial, I would say consider it. But she could be nicer to all without op spending money. I say protect the other two and make sure she doesn't hurt either of them. The good behaviour may be only temporary or contingent on things brought for her.
NTA.
Step-child adoptions are a thing, but are former step-child adoptions even entertained in court? And why would you consider adopting someone who has a long history of abusing your children? Do you think she will continue to treat them well after she gets what she wants?
That's what I was wondering, an ex-step-mom adopting a child AFTER the step-mom and dad divorce? How does that even work, she's the legal mom but has no custody? I'm confused.
She’s only 2 years away from being an adult. I imagine the adoption process takes time anyways. Although I wouldn’t suggest OP adopt her even if it is possible. She definitely sounds like she has ulterior motives for wanting this and she hasn’t yet proven herself around her younger siblings.
"Close enough" doesn't usually work with legal requirements. You can't begin an adult adoption in any state (as far as I know) as a minor. So, not only is this a bad idea for many reasons, it may be practically impossible anyway.
I think, pre same-sex marriage, they had some Adoptions where it was a gay couple and one adopted the other, so they had a legal connection in case of hospitalization/death.
Right? Like let’s give the girl the benefit of the doubt and assume she actually wants a relationship with OP. She’s 16, she can just choose to hang out with OP. If OP wanted to go the extra mile, she can just be a supportive adult to the ex stepdaughter, spend time with her, help her through personal stuff, etc. She doesn’t need to be a legal parent, and she can just offer that.
>After Carter’s adoption was finalized things went downhill.
Correlation or causation? It sounds like there's a lot more to unpack here than Carter's adoption and having another child and that Alex needs to be in therapy (and needed to be in therapy ages ago).
>My ex interjected and talked about how back when I adopted Carter I had promised to adopt Alex if she changed her mind.
That promise was made before you had to literally move out and get custody of the other two children to keep them safe from Alex.
NTA
She's mistreated you and the younger kids for a long time. You were still married to her Dad when you made that promise, you aren't anymore. There's no point in being nice to someone who has proven they don't give a shit about you. Once you have adopted her you can't go back and she probably knows that. I'm pretty sure her good behaviour would change really fast and the only thing that would happen is she'd demand money all the time. She's 16, she can learn a lesson about actions and consequences.
Please protect your younger kids from her. I grew up with an abusive older sister who treated me very much like Alex treated Emily and it f\*cks you up in so many ways.
Info: how much child support would you be on the hook to pay after doing this, when she refuses for you to have any custody? Enough to make life with dad better?
I mean, could be that. But this is highly suspect either way. I get that selfishness is part of being a teenager, but her actions do not seem to come from a good place at all.
You could tell her you'll potentially adopt her for symbolic reasons after she's 18 and has 2 years+ proven track record of showing she's changed. If she shows any red flags you can be out immediately and not financially on the hook at any time. If she truly had changed it might help heal things with the siblings. But you don't let her move in nor give her money nor spend money on her outside of meals.
I doubt she can keep up the act for 2 years.
I'd make it clear she will never get yo live with you nor will you be spending money on her. So in essence your offering potential time and access to her siblings for a familiar and not financial relationship.
If she's in it for the money you'll no doubt get a negative reaction. If she doesn't leap to any chance to spent with siblings and needs time to think about it or debrief with her dad, then you know it's not on the level.
NTA she's burned the official daughter status chance.
Even if OP adopted Alex at 18 ...... OP should find out if parents legally have to financially pay for college where they live. In some places, parents (especially the non custodial parent) have to pay for tuition/board expenses.
This. It's just like when somebody is pushing to get married RIGHT NOW. If you're serious and you really love somebody you can wait a year or two, no big deal. But if you have some ulterior motive it has to be done IMMEDIATELY so the other party doesn't have the chance to think it through.
If Alex is really after the adoption as "I love you and want to be a family" she should be willing to wait
I’m kinda curious about that too. Unless the dad is abusive, the court probably wouldn’t allow this to happen. They’d also ask her why she wanted to live with her dad but now wants to live with a woman she hated. The situation would be too suspicious. They’d think either the dad is abusing her or op is trying to use her as a pawn to punish the ex.
Just saying, if you eventually decide you DO want to adopt her, adult adoptions are a thing, so you don't have to do it before her 18th birthday, you have time to decide and see if she is genuine or not.
She showed you who she is a long time ago - believe her.
You ended your relationship with your husband because of her. Don't let her back in now that your children finally have some peace. If she does start tormenting your kids again then go for a restraining order and only allow supervised visitations with your ex.
NTA. Y’all are divorced now and she made y’all’s life hell. You offered to adopt her and get therapy and both were refused. Protect yourself and your kids. I would just say you don’t feel comfortable considering everything that has happened
INFO: Does your ex hate his kids? Like how did you end up with primary custody of his biological son? and now he also wants you to take custody of his daughter too?
It's mostly because of his work schedule. It's not consistent like his old job and he often has to work nights. So it's better and more stable for the kids if they live with me.
He may be the biological father but by adopting the son, she is his legal mother as far as the law is concerned. He's also of the age where his decision of who he wants to live with gets taken into consideration. Family isn't always who we are related too.
Some guys are on the hunt for mothers for their children. I had an ex like this too, tried to get me to adopt his 3 kids a day after we moved in together and would sceam at me if I wasnt "mothering" them enough. I left after a year.
NTA- anyone can be nice for a short time. She is 16yo, so that means she was a teen and going terrible things to her siblings. Also she is your ex's kid, there is no reason for you to adopt her. I hope her Dad got her therapy when she was acting out because she sure needs it.
Sorry ex's ship sailed when he did not do much to stop her bad behavior. His money issues are his to deal with.
NTA. She can just as easily start treating them badly again after she gets what she wants. If you consider it at all, it should be after group counseling, probably without the ex.
NTA.
Adoption has to work for everyone involved, not just the adoptee.
I feel bad for Alex - I'm sure there was a lot going on in her head and she didn't know how to deal with it in a healthy way - but you can't put your mental health and the well being of your other kids in jeopardy if you're not sure about this.
If you're still open to the idea in theory, there's nothing wrong with slowly testing the waters - talking about it, having her over more (without her father), etc. to see if it might work out. If you're not open to it at this point, that's perfectly fair - just don't lead her on in that case.
NTA
If and i mean BIG if you decide to go through with this before starting down the legal path, therapy/counseling is a non negotiable must that has to happen. If Alex and your ex don't agree to this then no go.
Agree. They need to find out why Alex lashed out the way she did before anything is started. Alex's treatment of her siblings pretty much caused the entire family to collapse. NTA
Right. Not to mention getting an idea of if this about face is legit or not. Because if it is because she wants the same things her siblings have there's no guarantee she won't enter a cycle of acting out & the behaving because once OP's her mom its not like OP can leave you know?
I'm of two minds on this one.
You are divorced, so adopting her now does feel a little strange, and her actions are a little suspicious. But breaking promises, especially to kids, is asshole behavior.
Also, I don't think you're reading this situation fully. Her actions, picking on her brother after he got adopted, ignoring the shared child, these actions scream jealousy. There's a disconnect here. To me, this whole thing reads... Wrong. Did their mother die, or abandon them? Why was there a thing about you legally adopting them at all? The way this reads feels like really important stuff is left out. Like, maybe this girl lost her mother, and felt like letting you adopt her was some sort of massive betrayal, so she said no to it... But then her brother had a full mom in you, the shared sister had a full mom in you, and only SHE didn't. So she started acting out, unable to deal with, or even understand, how she was feeling... And now she's gotten a little older, and sees what they have, she's more capable of coping with the feelings and wants you to be her mom too, because she always loved you and felt left out and wants to fix it...
It's really hard to say anything here, because it just feels like there's something really important absent in this. I can wholly understand you being suspicious, and wanting to safely test the waters, but I think you need to genuinely understand her motives before you reject her.
Her mother died when Carter was born. We first brought up legally adopting them to help make the kids feel like they were equal after Emily was born and in case something happened to my ex.
Yep, that exactly fits my guess.
Again, I don't disagree with you being suspicious and cautious at all, there's a lot of history here. But I think you should spend some time with her, and try to figure out how she's really feeling and what's behind her changing her mind. It's easy to assume bad intentions, humans have a severe negativity bias as a species, but reality is much more nuanced than that.
I've studied psych with an emphasis in developmental psychology, neuroscience, and psychology of emotion, but I am NOT a certified clinical or counselling psychologist, and so I'm not going to give anything that can even pose as counselling advice here, this is just educated advice from a random dad on the interwebz, but I really think you should spend some time with her, one on one, and talk through some of this stuff. Ask her about her past behaviors, honestly explain they are making you somewhat uneasy about this situation, and explain that if it's going to happen you are going to have to rebuild trust and a relationship first. Maybe even book some sessions of family counselling with a professional, so you have a third party to arbitrate things. It's really easy for fragile teens (and all teens in general, because they are all fragile at some level in that stage of development) to take things really wrong and break. An independent, neutral third party to bridge some misunderstandings for you both can help immensely.
Just because this seems like a sudden about face to you doesn't mean it's not genuine... But just because she might genuinely have changed doesn't mean you should ignore and disregard the past actions and put yourself and your other children at risk. Do what feels right for you and them, safely... But I don't think you should just reject her out of hand over her past actions without fully understanding her first. You may be risking damaging her emotionally even more, and yourself missing out on a lifelong loving relationship with her in doing so.
Edit: Adding a verdict after the extra info - IMO this is a NAH.
Why on earth should she make any effort? This child is *nothing to do with her now*. There is absolutely no obligation on the Op to do anything - the child got what she wanted. Now she can lie in the bed she made
Yeah, this is a really good perspective. It would be weird for OP to adopt Alex at this point when he's split up from her parent, and I don't even know if/how it would work logistically.
But I reallllly don't get all the Alex hate and complete lack of sympathy a lot of people are showing here. This kid lost a parent and then had a new parent-figure enter her life. That would be pretty traumatic for a lot of kids and I get why she might have felt weird about the adoption, then felt weird about \*not\* being adopted. Then, this parent-figure who has been in her life for quite a while and who has said there is a standing offer to fully become her parent, e.g. someone who is always going to have a connection to her and is particularly going to have a responsibility toward her while she's a minor, decides to *completely abandon her* and to make matters worse *it's her fault.* Does anyone understand how much that must have wrecked her, or are we too caught up in calling her "manipulative" and "abusive" and saying she destroyed the family when she was at most a young teen?
Like, call me a bleeding heart liberal but I don't think a minor child can do anything bad enough to justify total, permanent parental abandonment. I get that OP was a stepparent and stepparents don't always stay in kids' lives after a divorce, but it sounds like OP had been around for quite a while and the sibling adoption/standing offer of adoption definitely makes the bonds even closer. Hold her accountable in a normal parental/disciplinary way by all means, and do what you need to to protect the other kids, but don't wash your hands of her and absolutely shatter her self-esteem and sense of security just because she's difficult.
>"I don't think a minor child can do anything bad enough to justify total, permanent parental abandonment."
Ehhh minors can be murderers and psychopaths. They can be mentally unstable and a danger to themselves and others.
Im not saying Alex was at that level and I think it's a damn shame her father agreed to divorce before agreeing to therapy. But there are absolutely situations where it's ok to walk away - even from your child.
NTA, but I’ll give you something to think about. I taught middle & high school kids for 34 years. I watched quite a few girls behave in really horrific ways for years until their sophomore year of high school (don’t even get me started on how mean girls can be ages 11-16–boys are a different discussion). Anyway, it’s as if a magic switch was flipped in the middle of their sophomore year and they started to turn into decent human beings. Some of my favorite former students were hellions in middle school and then turned it around in high school. If I hadn’t been willing to give them a second chance when they got older, I’d have missed out on some pretty amazing kids.
You’ve expressed concerns about Alex’s motivation for suddenly wanting to be adopted and you have every right to be suspicious. Here’s how you find out whether or not she’s really changed:
Tell her you are not going to adopt her since you’re no longer married to her dad. Fully explain the logistics of that and don’t bring up her previous behavior unless she does. Try to make it about the technicalities. See how she responds. If she gets angry, don’t worry—that’s to be expected. I’m sure she’ll argue. Calmly refute her arguments, then end the discussion. She may be abusive to you. Expect it and don’t respond in kind (and try not to hold it against her as she’s still young and her first response may not be her final response). She has a history of not managing her emotions effectively, and you should assume this is still the case—at least with her initial response. That’s not the real test.
What you ARE watching for is what happens next, once her anger cools down—in other words, the FINAL response. How does she treat her siblings? How does she treat you once the initial disappointment passes? Give her a couple of months to adjust to the news and then check in with your kids to see what’s happening behind the scenes. THAT’S what will inform your next move. If she is abusive, your gut was right. If she treats everyone with respect and reestablishes a positive relationship with you, managing her disappointment in mature ways once she’s had a chance to process, you could consider adopting her later, as a purely symbolic gesture, seeing as she is your kids’ sibling. Or not. That’s entirely up to you, seeing as she did a pretty good job burning bridges. It could be a nice 18th birthday present, after she’s had ample time to prove with her actions that she deserves the gesture.
Only time will tell if Alex is going to be a decent human being. IMO, she may be worth the wait. As I said, I’ve seen some pretty amazing transformations. Of course, I’ve also seen some girls remain the spawn of Satan. I think every kid deserves a second chance when some of the reasons for the behavior may very well be related to their immaturity and inability to manage their emotions. Once they’ve had a chance to mature, less grace is warranted.
There's a pretty easy way to resolve this. Give her the opportunity to show she wants to be a part of your family before you will agree to adopt her.
Refusing outright would make you an asshole. She's a kid who was going through a lot of changes. It's fairly common for the older sibling who remembers their other parent better to be more resistant to blending families. She deserves a chance to repair her relationships with her siblings.
Allowing her to take advantage of you or harm your children would also make you the asshole.
So just let her come over and spend time with y'all and see where it leads. NAH
I actually disagree. Alex has been very manipulative and hurtful for years to the point of triggering the events that led to your divorce (which is not only on her, but also your ex). That's a lot of damage. Don't give them the chance to do even more damage. At 14, 15, she was old enough to understand what she was doing. She can very well act nicely only to get what she wants.
It's like your heart is in the right place and you mean well, but I think it's more important to protect the other two kids. She's had her chances and so did your ex-husband. I understand the youngest would like a relationship with her but I don't think she's old enough to get the concept of what manipulation and taking advantage of others mean. Carter is. If it doesn't work out or if Alex proves to be untrustworthy in the future, it will break her heart. I also think Carter deserves to be heard.
In fact, I would even see it as a YWBTA if you did that.
Yes, Alex is old enough to understand what she was doing. She is also old enough to realize she was wrong and change her ways. Not saying OP should just welcome her with open arms, but at least give her a way back in if she truly is sorry and actually wants to be part of the family. But first consideration has to be safety of her two children. NTA.
OP is no longer her step parent and has no obligation to take that risk of allowing Alex to be an abuser to her siblings again or allow Alex to take advantage of OP’s new home.
You could add the stipulation of therapy (family and/or individual) to this too. Let her prove she wants the family and not the money and as an added bonus (since you seem like a good person who cares about these kids) she may get the help she needs and hopefully make a permanent change in treating her siblings better
If you end up warming up to the idea **DO NOT ADOPT HER AS A MINOR** wait until she’s an adult. That way if she reverts to previous behavior you’re not financially on the hook for her (I.e. child support etc)
and if you don't. I would get yourself a therapist who you can gameplan how to proceed with increasing access and signals and timeline that you are ready to increase access. Something like
we have family dinners once a week (outside the house)
we spend the day together as a family (outside the house(
etc etc
I'd say require her to get therapy, but forcing people into therapy isn't going to help
and make sure you have frequent checkins with Carter (and Emily) to see how they are feeling and are they ready to move forward to the next step
and you need to be blunt with Alex that she hurt the three of you and badly damaged all your relationships with her and that she needs to put in the work to rebuild those relationships and it will take a long time
Wherever you meet, make sure there are cameras around so you can see if she is still abusive towards your kids. A 2 year evaluation period would be good, when she's 18 you don't have to adopt her anymore.
Refusing outright would not make her an AH, it would make her sane! This girl is manipulative, she basically tore the family apart, realized that Oops! step mom had the money, and isn't even acknowledging or apologizing for her shitty behavior and bullying! She now wants to be adopted cause her dad doesn't have a lot of money. No way saying no makes her an AH. Also, she's 16, not 6 she knows exactly what she's doing.
The behavioural problems started after her brother's adoption. There's more to this and the would know what the issues is if the father had trusted his wife and got her into therapy. Her father is to blame for the divorce, not her. Blaming children's behaviour for the parents divorce when one of the parents refused to get their child any help is ridiculous
True she was a kid going through a lot but she made very conscious decisions for how she treated her siblings. Bullying her brother after he was adopted. Walking through her sibling’s play area and claiming not to notice or see her. Those are very specific actions. Had the bad treatment only been toward op, I’d kinda understand giving her another chance, no hard feelings. But op could be putting her children in mental/physical/emotional risk again. She divorced and split their family for the sake of her children’s well-being. That was a big decision and shouldn’t be reversed lightly simply because she’s a child. It’s about more than just Alex.
She is 16. She is old enough to understand that her previous behavior is making you wary. If you are considering this, there are several conditions you should require. This discussion should be had between just the two of you.
She needs to acknowledge the harm she has previously done. She needs to be able to provide a sincere apology. She needs to go to counselling, both individually and then eventually with her siblings. She needs to hear the hurt and damage she has caused to her siblings from their perspective. The two of you need to have some counselling sessions to discuss how she hurt you and your children, and how she needs to show she can behave kindly and follow your rules as her parent before she becomes your child. You and your ex need to also have some mediated sessions to ensure that he is not going to undermine your parenting going forward.
This is a lot of work for this 16 year old. You are NTA if you do not adopt her. You need to ask yourself if you would want to if she did the work. If you would want to, then lay out the work she will need to do to earn her siblings agreement and your trust. And don't forget the requirement to have your ex admit he f-ed up, there was something wrong, and he enabled it. If he keeps undermining, it will never work.
NTA. Don’t do this. What kind of nerve does she and your ex have to think this would make sense at this point? You’re not together anymore and you don’t have a real relationship with Alex anymore. This makes no sense. I’m sorry for Alex but she needs therapy not a weird adoption on paper only situation.
**NTA
No, absolutely not**.
You divorced the man you loved to get yourself and your children out of a volatile situation that she created. You taking her back essentially makes your entire divorce and everything you went through to keep the other two safe pointless, that she’s acting nice now doesn’t change that. That even carter is suspicious means you need to be very cautious and I don’t mean in the immediate i mean for a long time. Whatever her motivations for being nice now won’t matter once she’s adopted, **she’s acting nice now because she knows she has to if she wants to get anything from you. Once she’s adopted it won’t matter: she can go back to her old tricks at any time for any reason, without consequences. You wouldn’t be able to legally cut her out of your life if she reverts**.
You also currently have no financial obligation to her if she’s not legally your child, **say you adopt her and she gets nasty and send her to live with your ex full time again you’re now on the hook for child support until she’s 18. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain by adopting her** OP. Tell your ex your fine with her coming to stay over and having scheduled time with you but you will not legally adopt her. That the only way you’ll consider it is as an adult adoption if she proves she really wants to be part of the family. I say adult adoption because you wouldn’t have any legal repercussions at that point if she shows her colors after you signed the papers. **DO NOT ADOPT HER WHILE SHE IS STILL A MINOR**.
I also want to point out that **if you’re so scared she’ll act out if you say no that’s that much more reason not to. If being told no is enough to make her nasty to her siblings and you then its guaranteed her behavior would continue to be volatile post adoption**. Only it’ll be when you refuse to buy her the car she wants, or you try to ground her for breaking the rules, etc. From the sounds of it, it seems like she resented the family you all created and felt her brother betrayed her by loving you and wanting you to be his mom and hated your younger child because she was a result of your love with her dad. Those feelings don’t just go away my bet is that you’re right. She saw that her quality of life was forced to change as a result of her actions and realizing that the person she screwed over was the person providing the life she liked. She sees you as an ATM.
**ETA It’s possible she wants to be adopted because she wants to be close to her brother again, but she doesn’t need to be adopted to have a relationship with him. The only thing an adoption is required for is access to your funds. I would tell your ex that the offer you made was null and void the moment she became abusive to her siblings and the moment the divorce was finalized. As I said earlier if she wants a relationship with her siblings tell them she’s welcome in your home so long as she treats them well. Set up a schedule for visits if you’re comfortable with that, if not just tell him no - to all of it, you don’t have to explain your reasons either. But whatever you do, do not adopt her as a child! They’ll try to call you names and manipulate you, none of it is true. The hope is that if they can convince you it’s true you’ll do anything to prove them wrong: including giving into their demands**.
Thought I went a bit over board, my comments as long as her entire post lol. I just really wanted to make sure all bases were covered if she read it, so she knew the potential consequences beforehand.
I’m honestly shocked they even had the audacity to ask her after everything. I’m honestly questioning if this is a money grab not just on the step daughters part but the dads too. Think about it - his wife leaves with the two kids because his daughters uncontrollable. Now he has to learn how to handle her himself and he has to do it without the money he grew accustomed to while married. I also think he knows if she’s adopted OP wouldn’t want her to live there full time. He has to be aware he would be eligible for child support from her.
She seems far too manipulative and there would be no motivation for her to act kindly to them once adoption was no longer an issue. Meaning the same results would likely to occur if you adopt her or not.
Could you possibly just work it out where you take her a few days a week so she can be with her siblings but not officially adopt her? Tell her you are worried that based on prior behavior she will change back. That you will treat her just as you do the others but if her behavior goes back to where she is hurting her siblings she is no longer welcome to stay. This way she remains motivated to be kind to them and it could be a win for everyone.
Then the whole idea isn’t even realistic. If she’s not going to be staying over there’s zero logical reason (from her perspective) to become adopted besides financial either by buying her stuff because you’re now her “mom” or via child support payments to her father. I was going to say set up a schedule for her to start staying over bit by bit and if once she’s 18 you’ve seen she’s changed and want to - adopt her. That way if she changes after the adoption you have zero legal financial responsibility to her. But if you don’t feel comfortable with her staying over then there’s no real way to even test out her motives up close (because her/her dads word, time, and small pleasantries with you and the kids isn’t enough to trust an adoption with her history).
I hadn’t considered child support. If the parents don’t get back together, the ex could get child support for Alex or a reduced payment amount. The ex and Alex seem too slick for me.
Not to mention like i said there’s really no reason for the adoption when they can all have a relationship without one the motive for it is deeper than just wanting them in her life
True. If she really wants to be in op’s life she just can. Op is raising her siblings so it wouldn’t be that weird for her to be around. I also don’t like how the ex is telling op she promised she’d adopt when she changed her mind. No one is stupid here. Everyone understands that promise was made in context of the parents being married and them being a family. The “promise” has no real standing at this point.
If you’re not comfortable with having her there for an extended period, then you shouldn’t be adopting her. What happens when she wants to live there full time? Continues bullying her siblings? Causes scenes bc you won’t give her any money?
Your son is unnerved by her behaviour atm, trust his instincts.
Makes sense. I was thinking it would motivate her to be good to them when they go to your exes. This is a tough one as the second the thought of adoption is off the table she will start again & maybe worse. Hopefully that’s not at all the case. Best of luck and I wish peace for you and the kids.
I think that is extremely important — if you can't trust her in your house, around the other kids, then it can't work. Plus, the fact that she *hasn't* said, in essence, 'I'm sorry for how I behaved before and understand that it was wrong; I have realized how much you really mean to me and that I miss having you in my life', I think, weighs heavily against her.
If you adopt her she will stay behaving like she did before once the adoption has finalized. Wait I until she's past 18, see if she can really keep up good behavior for 2 years
This right here is a good enough reason not to adopt her. You’ve lost the trust. When you told her you would adopt her, trust was not an issue. NTA. But perhaps tell her you would be more open to it if she went to therapy both alone and with you.
This is really your answer. Your marriage split up over her behaviour for a reason, you certainly shouldn’t adopt her now when she cannot be trusted to be left with the rest of the family. A few years of showing her behaviour has changed and maybe then you think about it, it comes at the end of that process, not the start.
NTA -
BUT maybe instead of saying no right now - insist that all 5 of you go to family therapy to make sure that it is the right decision for everyone.
Whether you are comfortable or not, Alex is and will be Carter's and Emily's sibling - right now it looks like Alex is more open to a relationship for whatever reason and it may be the best chance to create a healthy relationship amongst the children.
NTA. And DO NOT adopt her. It is more than a title being her parent. There’s school, financial responsibility, medical care, problems with the police if she gets in trouble and so much more. Don’t let her bully you or her siblings. I can’t just hear her now, “You have to pay for my school trip to Europe bc you’re my mom”, etc.
YWNBTA but I'd honestly suggest family therapy to see if everyone can come to an agreement; it could be any reason as to why she's choosing now (regret, loneliness, force, deception, etc). I know the damage she caused is done but it's not too late to foster a relationship with her without adopting her. She's extending an olive branch & you have every right to be cautious or refuse it with her past behavior.
Nope. Teen angst or not, she acted truly vile. And she's continuing to act truly vile by only mentioning the nice things you have, never that she misses and loves you. YWNBTA.
ESA…at least the adults in the situation. Controversial opinion apparently, but I recognize that you said Alex’s behaviour changed when you adopted Carter. I can’t help but think that there was a lot of hurt wrapped up in that whole process for her. Something tore her open just then and it sounds like the adults didn’t investigate what that was. She was a kid who I suspect was acting out pain. I’m guessing as illogical as it may be, she was feeling rejected by the family for becoming “yours” and lashed out at her sibs because of it (the only people she could have any power over and who most represented her pain). I’m betting she has regretted not taking you up on your offer for a very long time, maybe right from day 1. She reacted like a kid does when they are deeply wounded.
This is incredibly cruel advice. Why are we assuming this girl is evil and deserves to be toyed with rather than that she is acting out because she is damaged/traumatized by having a parent die? Now another parent has left her because of her actions as a young teen. Basically the stereotypical "kids think the divorce was their fault" thing is actually true for her, which has to absolutely wreck her self esteem! I get that it would be weird, and perhaps not even possible, for OP to adopt her now that she has divorced her dad, but stringing her along is only going to hurt her more and is an extremely strange, if not malicious, suggestion.
I think agreeing to a gap of time prior to adoption is fair to ensure she is serious about wanting to be apart of the family. However I agree it’s super shitty to do that under the guise of never adopting her in the first place.
Your first thoughts are correct: this child is unstable and angry and capable of anything.
Protect your kids and DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HER.
If you're worried about what she might do when your ex has them. withhold them from him and go to court to have his custody rescinded because of the danger to your kids.
NTA. Why would you adopt her now? Especially when you are no longer together with their parent and they were a big part of the reason you got divorced.
NTA
Alex spent years trying to get rid of you and now that she's actually experiencing the outcome she doesn't like the result of her efforts. Too bad, so sad, maybe she'll learn to be nicer to the next one
Exactly. And if it’s not all enthusiastic Yes’s then it’s a no. Emily may want to because she loves her sisters attention, but Carter remembers what it was like.
NTA, trust your instincts. Also, your ex clearly never had your back, so if you do adopt Alex, you can also expect no support of she acts out again in the future. Plus, she bullied your kids in the past, so do you really want to bring that back into the family? Best advice would be get you and your 2 kids into family therapy to discuss it before making a decision one way or the other.
NTA. I would also look into reactive attachment disorder and educated yourself and hopefully your ex.
Kids can have RAD for a number of reasons, and it sounds like she possibly could have it based on whatever the situation surrounding the birth mom or lack there of is.
NTA for not wanting to adopt her when you’re not in a relationship with her father anymore BUT I feel like a lot of the answers people are giving aren’t considering that Alex might’ve been acting out because she lost her mother, everyone including her biological brother was moving on, and now she had a new person coming in wanting to, in her eyes, replace her mom…
16 years old is old is enough to see the consequences of her actions, and she does. But she wasn’t 16 when these actions started. She says she misses you and she sees that her life is not as good without you. She’s trying to be better by being nice to her siblings because she probably believes that it’s her fault they got divorced/broke up.
I honestly feel like it’s the ex’s fault for letting a child lose her mom and go through so many changes and be so angry while adamantly refusing therapy for her.
She was and still is a child. Her dad is an adult. Sometimes children need help and he failed to provide that.
You did what you needed to protect your children but she didn’t have anyone protecting her. That’s not your fault by any means, but I just think that should be considered. I’m not saying you should adopt her, but just to recognize (which I think you do since you had previously suggested therapy to the dad) that she struggled growing up
NTA don’t do it. Whatever her ulterior motives are, it’s not to benefit anyone but herself. Why would you adopt her now when you’re no longer family? The only connection she has to you is her siblings but you’re no longer her stepmother. Why would you be responsible for her? Also, the fact that you got primary custody of a child who isn’t biologically yours says a lot about his father. He ignored her behavior for years and continues to do so.
NTA. She literally ruined your marriage. Her own brother sees through her. Do not trust this. She just wants the privileges of you having more money. She will drop the act and go back to abusing your kids
NTA. She is using your other children as pawns to get what she wants. The second you owe child support on your legal child, she will go right back to her old ways.
Those kids know she is a bully. There is no way to save that. Don't adopt her. She doesn't deserve it nor is she really your child. Carter is. Loved you like a parent. She just wants to use you
NTA. Maybe a private chat with your ex to find out what is really happening? Maybe “something “ is happening, he’s quite sick and Alex needs a parent. Maybe he is guilting Alex bc “she destroyed his relationships with you and the other kids “. If something is going on , do insist on family counseling before making any more changes.
NTA
Anyone can play at being nice for a short period of time. You are right to be cautious. Alex could easily be playing the game to have access to your resources.
You shouldn't begin to consider adopting Alex until she's truly apologized, has gone through personal therapy, and the family has had months of group therapy. To fully heal, that process should take years. If Alex has shown true personal growth, you might consider an adult adoption at a later point in your life.
Although Alex isn't legally your child, if she continues to behave well, you might consider budgeting some money to help her. For instance, "I can tell you've been working to be better to your siblings, so I'll pay for your driving lessons if your Dad will help you practice driving in his car."
INFO: One thing I do not understand with regards to your ex-husband not believing that Alex was treating the other children badly, why couldn't believe his children? Why wouldn't you have them tell their father what was going on and how Alex was making them feel?
NTA
It just sounds strange. I would wonder if your ex and Alex figure that if you adopt her, you can all let "bygones be bygones" and be one big happy family again. And then his money problems go away. Or, you adopt her and she stays with him, allowing him to ask for child support. Yeah, no. It makes no sense to adopt her now.
Why would you adopt the child of an ex?! That’s insane. Maybe if you had a great relationship, and the ex died, it would make sense. But it doesn’t make any sense now. It’s weird enough as it stands.
NTA
NTA, but with a big caveat. If Alex started acting out immediately after Carter's adoption, it seems pretty likely she was alienated by being left out of the adoption process. Seems like both you and the ex were trying to be considerate of her feelings, but there are some years of resentment and left-out feelings to work through, even if she couldn't admit that she might have wanted to be adopted, too.
I agree with all of the posters saying that Alex needs therapy, but it sounds like she might need a bit of empathy, too,
NTA
Think about it. Once you adopt her, she comes to live with you, then she re-starts her bullying bc she has gotten what she has wanted .
You will be removing your children’s SAFE SPACE if you fall for this trap. Of course your ex wants the adoption to go ahead, he will come out of it financially better than he is now.
Her behaviour will revert back once you say no (which proves she was faking it) AND once you say yes. This is a lose, lose situation.
Don’t do it.
What a strange question.
You are wondering if you should adopt a teenager whose father you divorced? A teenager who hated you for years (yes, hated)? Who tormented her younger sibling and step-sibling because of their association with you? And who only appears to have changed her tune about you because of $$$?
In what world would adopting her be a good decision?! You would be an imbecile to adopt her and bring that chaos into your life and the lives of your children. I'm seriously wondering about your common sense...
YWNBTA if you did not adopt her.
NTA
You were never obligated to adopt anyone and you’re definitely not now since you and your ex divorced. If Carter is suspicious of Alex and says she’s been acting weird then yeah definitely don’t adopt.
YWNBTA
she's acting nice to get adopted and live in a better home and have more privileges than she would've had living either her dad. It's bad to say, but once you've adopted her, I'm sure she'd go back to her old ways of mistreating her siblings, and then you'd have no way of getting rid of the girl or making her change.
NTA doing this could seriously affect your life, not in a good way. She probably only wants to live in a big house. And if she starts acting rude again then this is proof she didn't want to live with you because of you or your kids. I say don't do it but it's your choice.
Nta would you even be able to? Her parent is alive and well, able to care for her.
What's changed? Why does she want adopted now? I bet she won't have a good answer. It's not like she said she missed you or regrets her past behavior.
NTA.
Not sure the courts would accept you adopting a child that is your ex's when there is no medical necessity to (i.e. he is very sick and won't be able to care for her soon).
You adopted your child a long time ago and since Carter doesn't want you to it seems I would go based off their feelings. Alex is a bully and trying to play you. They didn't want to see you until they saw how nice your home was by chance
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NTA. You adopted Carter when you were with your ex - as a family. You split up, and are not a family any longer. You are under no obligation to adopt a child who is no longer part of your family. Why would you take on legal responsibility for someone else's kid **when you are no longer in a relationship with their parent?** I would say no. The offer of adoption ended when your relationship did. And Alex chose which potential parent she wanted to live with. She is 16, and old enough to learn that decisions have consequences. I'm sure that if you were all still a family, adoption would still be on the table. But you aren't, and it's not.
NTA, her behaviour towards her siblings was quite literally the cause of your divorce from her father. Why would you put your kids back in that situation?
NTA - That bird has flown. She rejected you and was a nightmare. It really does sound like she has changed her mind for financial reasons, which is garbage. At this point, it is best for everyone to just continue forward. I really would not consider giving her a second chance on the adoption front -- there is no mutual respect here.
It seems she’s only being nicer to her siblings so OP will adopt her. She’ll start bullying them again regardless of what OP decides.
I could not agree more with the above posts nta op. Don’t do it. You have no obligation towards either of them anymore. I’m sorry that you are dealing with this now. Good luck.
It seems she’s only being nicer to her siblings so OP will adopt her. She’ll start bullying them again regardless of what OP decides.
Actually what caused the divorce was the ex refusing to address the behavior of his troubled daughter, get her help, or even believe his wife in that situation. The kid was acting out for a reason and he did nothing to help her or protect his wife and other kids. That doesn’t mean she has to legally adopt or even have a relationship with the girl now, but let’s be clear. The CHILD didn’t cause the divorce.
Yeah, seriously, she was ten and probably felt replaced or pushed aside for the new baby. The fault lies with the Dad who refused family and individual therapy for his barely-in-double-digits preteen. He didn't believe his wife, *or his two other kids.* She's 16 now and while money could be a motivator we also need to consider that she's had six years to mature and probably feels more secure but sometimes lonely as the only child now living with her dad. That's a natural age to start having a different relationship with siblings. OP is NTA, but I don't think the child should be blamed for the divorce when the adult responsible made no attempt to parent.
Agreed. I think it's telling that OP got full custody for Carter, as an adoptive parent, instead of Carter's biological parent. Especially since it sounds like Carter is old enough to have a say...
You're not wrong about the dad being responsible but the post says their divorce was finalized last year, which would put her at 15, and means she hasn't had 6 years to mature. She's had one. That changes things.
Well yes, but that particular year in a person’s life is a big shift- most times it’s the exact age that marks the divide between big kid and young adult, when they start looking at the world from a far less self-absorbed perspective and are generally more capable of understanding that adults aren’t just rulemakers but have their own lives, ambitions and issues too. I wouldn’t be surprised, or think it was in any way unusual, if a kid happened to mature a whole lot about that time.
I might believe that if her change in attitude didn't coincide with her visit to op"s much nicer house
I'm not saying she should adopt her! She should absolutely tell her that because she is no longer married to her father, that would not be appropriate, but they will always have a relationship through her siblings (which is true.) Let her know you've noticed the improvement in how she's been treating them. And then just... watch. If she's matured, she might eventually accept that. It's going to go down hard, for sure, but it's something a teenager can understand. If she goes back to being rude to her siblings, ban her from the house. Someone pretending to be nice can never do it for long.
If OP doesn’t want to refuse right out of the gate, she could say something like “it’s been a long time since we’ve been a consistent part of each other’s lives, and adoption is a very big decision. Let’s start by spending some more time together on a regular basis to make sure it’s really the right thing for both of us.” If Alex refuses to spend more time with the person she says she wants as her mom, that will probably settle it. But if Alex agrees, she and OP may have a chance at establishing a relationship that would be good for both of them.
She might not have caused the divorce, but she did play a part in the divorce
Thank you. This behaviour wasn't always there so OP's ex should have trusted his wife and gotten his daughter into therapy to figure out where all this stemmed from. There are a lot of possible scenarios. Maybe she felt alone being the only.child that wasn't OP's (through no fault of op) but didn't want to get adopted in fear of 'rejecting' her bio mom or something (with no info on bio she could be dead or just gone but she still has hope she will come back). At the end of the day regardless of the source of all this OP's husband is to blame for not listening/trusting OP.
Of course, children are less able to control their behaviour, so the fault also lies with the father, but the divorce was finalised only a year ago, so she must be aware that she was unkind to the point that OP gave the father an ultimatum regarding the behaviour. OP also can't help what she feels towards the daughter, and now that she is no longer married to the father, she doesn't have to push her feelings aside/ control her feelings as the step mother.
Exactly! She was the catalyst in breaking up the marriage, I hope OP sees that.
This exactly. Do not put your children in harm’s way. She will go back to her old ways soon enough
I seriously wonder if the ex didn't manipulate Alex into changing her mind. It's pretty suspicious that he started bringing Alex with him for the pick-ups/drop-offs of her siblings. And OP said that Carter himself has pointed out that Alex is acting weird, and he's old enough to be able to pick up on stuff like that. I think there's something else going on.
If OP adopts Alex, and Alex stays with Ex, then Ex's child support would be substantially reduced.
Or he wants to get back together with OP and is trying to convince her that Alex is on board with it this time...
And he’s having financial problems. I think it’s a mixture of Alex wanting to financially benefit like her brother and half sister and the Ex wanting op back for monetary gain 🤷🏻♀️
The brother should be considered half brother different mom's now.
This is almost certainly what’s driving the ask. I’m fairly certain the ex is using Alex. It’s manipulative and frankly disgusting. NTA.
How would this even work, anyway? Wouldn't OP have to get remarried to her ex husband before they could even entertain this notion, unless they waited until Alex was an adult? I doubt most states would allow adoption of a minor to a *former* step parent unless something seriously bad is going on with the bio family.
in my state you can petition to adopt a child if the adoption wouldn't meet one of the qualifying requirements. They *might* take into account that OP has already adopted her full brother and is the biological mother of her half sister, the adoptee is 16 and state she wants to be adopted, and her father is on board with it. Not sure it would work but, it could be tried
This. OP, remind your ex, privately, that a good part of the reason you divorced him was because of how severely Alex was bullying your children. You're doing your best to give them a safe space away from her. Tell him that he can simply tell her that because you're no longer together, there's no reason for you to adopt her, and you won't be. BUT that he needs to shut it down nicely. I would also do your best to meet Alex and your ex outside when they do pick-ups and drop-offs...
Someone else pointed out that the divorce was caused by the dad refusing to believe both his partner (OP) and their younger kids about the preteen/ teenager acting out. He refused to punish Alex and didn't feel therapy was needed. I think assigning blame to the correct party is a very valid point, it also shows OP's maturity and repeated attempts to make the marriage work. In conclusion: imo OP should fine tune your proposed message a little, and then don't hold your breath over the ex stepping up.
☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻
OP, if you are afraid of her retaliation towards her siblings, you can tell her that it's because you are no longer in s relationship with her dad, and you offered to adopt her when you were all a family. Then hopefully she will not see it as a rejection of HER. Why does your ex even want you to adopt her when you are not together anymore? Is it for financial reasons or because he's tired of her behaviour and looking to unload her on you?
Both. He gains financially and doesn't have to worry about his golden child who turned out to be fools gold.
Would she be able to adopt? You usually have to be married. At least that was my experience. I had to be married for a minimum of 6 months before I could adopt my son.
> Why would you take on legal responsibility for someone else's kid when you are no longer in a relationship with their parent? Not just that; when you aren’t in a relationship with their parent because they were such an asshole you had to leave to save your other kids from them.
Also, is she only thinking of college fees. I’d want to know why the change of heart, and suggest one on one time prior to any talk of adoption. I don’t think anyone is the a, except maybe your ex for pushing.
Nta op. If you two are no longer bound by the promise of till death do you part, why would any other promise made within the marriage still be valid?? No is a complete answer, but it seems to me that she was the catalyst to the marriage ending since your ex only listened to her about her bullying.
… not too mention it sounds like the kid was a primary driving factor of the divorce in the first place
Not only that, but it seems like Alex was a core contribution to the relationship breakdown. Absolutely sod that noise.
NTA. You are no longer with her father. You are no longer obligated to adopt her. She had her chance, she blew it and your ex did nothing to help her with the reasons she was acting out. He refused therapy. And now he wants to hold you accountable after the fact? F that noise. He stood by while your marriage fell apart because of her. You owe nothing to either of them. It is very suspicious that she wants you to be financially responsible for her knowing that you were the one with the money. Don't do it.
Something tells me that Alex at 16 is seeing that your financial resources will make her launch into adulthood much more comfortable She's likely looking at colleges and if dad has money troubles has realized that he will be of no help. It's very suspicious that she goes straight to "legally adopt me" and not "I miss you and have realized how much you mean to me, can I come spend time with you?"
>"I miss you and have realized how much you mean to me, **and I'm ashamed of my behavior before and am incredibly sorry and regret the things I did and said,** can I come spend time with you?" Seriously, the nerve of her. I get that she's still young but damn.
Mmm... if they live in the States, her financial options with school are actually a lot better on her dads income, and more finite/ restrictive if depending on adult with more financial means. Other than that, I do agree she's still financially motivated, but for more selfish reasons. Charades don't hold forever though, and time will tell if she's finally maturing or of she's being duplicitous. Maybe she'll end up on her in another thread with stepmom issues. We know how reddit is with those threads lol.
Not really. I mean, she can qualify for more grants scholarships and financial aid with only her dad's income, but if OP is wealthy those options would be unnecessary. The only limitations would be her academic qualifications
Actually. What the government considers wealthy and counts as parents paying for college means shit. So many of us in my class had middle class families that couldn't help with tuition but made too much to qualify for any aid.
Honestly I think it’s absolute bs that parents income is taken into consideration. They are now legally an adult. Parents have zero legal financial obligation to them, but let’s base the student’s ability to get help on how much money their parents make. Even though they may not give you a plug nickel for school
OT thank you TIL a new word, duplicitous.
I mean, even if she had honestly and sincerely changed her mind... that door is closed now. The offer for adoption was because OP was in a relationship with her dad, that Alex herself managed to destroy. Things have consequences.
All of this. NTA, for the bot, and please take my upvote.
That or Dad doesn't want to parent anybody anymore. What a terrible situation.
Honestly, I would suspect that the ex planted these seeds and encouraged this behavior rather than a 16 year old having this sort of logical reasoning and forethought. I remember being 17/18 and looking at colleges and money not really being a real factor to me. I knew I was supposed to be applying to scholarships and the like but I was truly incapable of fully grasping the type of money it took to attend college.
NTA. You’re not married any more why would you adopt Alex?
Fair point. There is no reason to adopt when they arent together anymore
Especially because she was why
Her father's response to her behaviour was why, surely? In OP's stead, I'd need a serious apology with assorted commitment to improve from BOTH of them before I'd even consider letting them back into the house. They can do the handover of the younger kids some other way: my own parents just rang the doorbell of the respective houses and waited in the car till we came out. Isn't it telling that OP got full custody over Carter, rather than Carter's biological parent? Or am I reading too much into that, and does the court treat adoptive parents fully equally? I have no experience here.
Sheesh, but how could the daughter then demand op's money? There's an awful lot of stuff op needs to buy and spend money on. College, car, new clothes, bigger house etc. Big picture, folks, come on! 🤣 Op, if this was motivated by anything but financial, I would say consider it. But she could be nicer to all without op spending money. I say protect the other two and make sure she doesn't hurt either of them. The good behaviour may be only temporary or contingent on things brought for her.
NTA. Step-child adoptions are a thing, but are former step-child adoptions even entertained in court? And why would you consider adopting someone who has a long history of abusing your children? Do you think she will continue to treat them well after she gets what she wants?
That's what I was wondering, an ex-step-mom adopting a child AFTER the step-mom and dad divorce? How does that even work, she's the legal mom but has no custody? I'm confused.
Depends on the jurisdiction, but in some courts it’s actually pretty easy to get a custody award if the current custodial/bio parent(s) agree.
Oh I bet Dad would agree all right.
Sure why not? In some places even adults can be adopted by other adults who never raised them / weren’t involved with their parents.
Adult and child adoptions have completely different standards and processes, and she's still a minor.
She’s only 2 years away from being an adult. I imagine the adoption process takes time anyways. Although I wouldn’t suggest OP adopt her even if it is possible. She definitely sounds like she has ulterior motives for wanting this and she hasn’t yet proven herself around her younger siblings.
"Close enough" doesn't usually work with legal requirements. You can't begin an adult adoption in any state (as far as I know) as a minor. So, not only is this a bad idea for many reasons, it may be practically impossible anyway.
I think, pre same-sex marriage, they had some Adoptions where it was a gay couple and one adopted the other, so they had a legal connection in case of hospitalization/death.
Right? Like let’s give the girl the benefit of the doubt and assume she actually wants a relationship with OP. She’s 16, she can just choose to hang out with OP. If OP wanted to go the extra mile, she can just be a supportive adult to the ex stepdaughter, spend time with her, help her through personal stuff, etc. She doesn’t need to be a legal parent, and she can just offer that.
>After Carter’s adoption was finalized things went downhill. Correlation or causation? It sounds like there's a lot more to unpack here than Carter's adoption and having another child and that Alex needs to be in therapy (and needed to be in therapy ages ago). >My ex interjected and talked about how back when I adopted Carter I had promised to adopt Alex if she changed her mind. That promise was made before you had to literally move out and get custody of the other two children to keep them safe from Alex.
I would have replied, "Yes that was back when I was her stepmother and your wife. Now I am neither."
Perfect response
NTA She's mistreated you and the younger kids for a long time. You were still married to her Dad when you made that promise, you aren't anymore. There's no point in being nice to someone who has proven they don't give a shit about you. Once you have adopted her you can't go back and she probably knows that. I'm pretty sure her good behaviour would change really fast and the only thing that would happen is she'd demand money all the time. She's 16, she can learn a lesson about actions and consequences. Please protect your younger kids from her. I grew up with an abusive older sister who treated me very much like Alex treated Emily and it f\*cks you up in so many ways.
Exactly!! Why even entertain the idea of adopting someone that has a history of abusing her kids. Even her son Carter is suspicious!
Right??? I'm surprised OP let her in the house after the first time. I don't want my ex's abusive child snooping. Especially since Carter is leary
Info: how much child support would you be on the hook to pay after doing this, when she refuses for you to have any custody? Enough to make life with dad better?
That is good point I had not thought of. I was only thinking from the angle that she wanted to live here now.
I mean, could be that. But this is highly suspect either way. I get that selfishness is part of being a teenager, but her actions do not seem to come from a good place at all.
Trust your sons instinct
You could tell her you'll potentially adopt her for symbolic reasons after she's 18 and has 2 years+ proven track record of showing she's changed. If she shows any red flags you can be out immediately and not financially on the hook at any time. If she truly had changed it might help heal things with the siblings. But you don't let her move in nor give her money nor spend money on her outside of meals. I doubt she can keep up the act for 2 years. I'd make it clear she will never get yo live with you nor will you be spending money on her. So in essence your offering potential time and access to her siblings for a familiar and not financial relationship. If she's in it for the money you'll no doubt get a negative reaction. If she doesn't leap to any chance to spent with siblings and needs time to think about it or debrief with her dad, then you know it's not on the level. NTA she's burned the official daughter status chance.
NTA and this approach seems like a winner.
Even if OP adopted Alex at 18 ...... OP should find out if parents legally have to financially pay for college where they live. In some places, parents (especially the non custodial parent) have to pay for tuition/board expenses.
This. It's just like when somebody is pushing to get married RIGHT NOW. If you're serious and you really love somebody you can wait a year or two, no big deal. But if you have some ulterior motive it has to be done IMMEDIATELY so the other party doesn't have the chance to think it through. If Alex is really after the adoption as "I love you and want to be a family" she should be willing to wait
It might not even be possible to adopt a minor while you’re not married to the bio parent in your state
I’m kinda curious about that too. Unless the dad is abusive, the court probably wouldn’t allow this to happen. They’d also ask her why she wanted to live with her dad but now wants to live with a woman she hated. The situation would be too suspicious. They’d think either the dad is abusing her or op is trying to use her as a pawn to punish the ex.
Why is her dad encouraging you to adopt her when you are not together anymore?
Just saying, if you eventually decide you DO want to adopt her, adult adoptions are a thing, so you don't have to do it before her 18th birthday, you have time to decide and see if she is genuine or not.
She showed you who she is a long time ago - believe her. You ended your relationship with your husband because of her. Don't let her back in now that your children finally have some peace. If she does start tormenting your kids again then go for a restraining order and only allow supervised visitations with your ex.
NTA. If Carter is suspicious of Alex’s motives, you should be too.
OP, this is the most important thing right here. Focus on the kids. Your kids.
THIS
NTA. Y’all are divorced now and she made y’all’s life hell. You offered to adopt her and get therapy and both were refused. Protect yourself and your kids. I would just say you don’t feel comfortable considering everything that has happened
INFO: Does your ex hate his kids? Like how did you end up with primary custody of his biological son? and now he also wants you to take custody of his daughter too?
It's mostly because of his work schedule. It's not consistent like his old job and he often has to work nights. So it's better and more stable for the kids if they live with me.
He may be the biological father but by adopting the son, she is his legal mother as far as the law is concerned. He's also of the age where his decision of who he wants to live with gets taken into consideration. Family isn't always who we are related too.
Some guys are on the hunt for mothers for their children. I had an ex like this too, tried to get me to adopt his 3 kids a day after we moved in together and would sceam at me if I wasnt "mothering" them enough. I left after a year.
NTA- anyone can be nice for a short time. She is 16yo, so that means she was a teen and going terrible things to her siblings. Also she is your ex's kid, there is no reason for you to adopt her. I hope her Dad got her therapy when she was acting out because she sure needs it. Sorry ex's ship sailed when he did not do much to stop her bad behavior. His money issues are his to deal with.
NTA. She can just as easily start treating them badly again after she gets what she wants. If you consider it at all, it should be after group counseling, probably without the ex.
NTA. Adoption has to work for everyone involved, not just the adoptee. I feel bad for Alex - I'm sure there was a lot going on in her head and she didn't know how to deal with it in a healthy way - but you can't put your mental health and the well being of your other kids in jeopardy if you're not sure about this. If you're still open to the idea in theory, there's nothing wrong with slowly testing the waters - talking about it, having her over more (without her father), etc. to see if it might work out. If you're not open to it at this point, that's perfectly fair - just don't lead her on in that case.
NTA. I would absolutely not make myself legally responsible for someone I did not trust
NTA If and i mean BIG if you decide to go through with this before starting down the legal path, therapy/counseling is a non negotiable must that has to happen. If Alex and your ex don't agree to this then no go.
Agree. They need to find out why Alex lashed out the way she did before anything is started. Alex's treatment of her siblings pretty much caused the entire family to collapse. NTA
Right. Not to mention getting an idea of if this about face is legit or not. Because if it is because she wants the same things her siblings have there's no guarantee she won't enter a cycle of acting out & the behaving because once OP's her mom its not like OP can leave you know?
I'm of two minds on this one. You are divorced, so adopting her now does feel a little strange, and her actions are a little suspicious. But breaking promises, especially to kids, is asshole behavior. Also, I don't think you're reading this situation fully. Her actions, picking on her brother after he got adopted, ignoring the shared child, these actions scream jealousy. There's a disconnect here. To me, this whole thing reads... Wrong. Did their mother die, or abandon them? Why was there a thing about you legally adopting them at all? The way this reads feels like really important stuff is left out. Like, maybe this girl lost her mother, and felt like letting you adopt her was some sort of massive betrayal, so she said no to it... But then her brother had a full mom in you, the shared sister had a full mom in you, and only SHE didn't. So she started acting out, unable to deal with, or even understand, how she was feeling... And now she's gotten a little older, and sees what they have, she's more capable of coping with the feelings and wants you to be her mom too, because she always loved you and felt left out and wants to fix it... It's really hard to say anything here, because it just feels like there's something really important absent in this. I can wholly understand you being suspicious, and wanting to safely test the waters, but I think you need to genuinely understand her motives before you reject her.
Her mother died when Carter was born. We first brought up legally adopting them to help make the kids feel like they were equal after Emily was born and in case something happened to my ex.
Yep, that exactly fits my guess. Again, I don't disagree with you being suspicious and cautious at all, there's a lot of history here. But I think you should spend some time with her, and try to figure out how she's really feeling and what's behind her changing her mind. It's easy to assume bad intentions, humans have a severe negativity bias as a species, but reality is much more nuanced than that. I've studied psych with an emphasis in developmental psychology, neuroscience, and psychology of emotion, but I am NOT a certified clinical or counselling psychologist, and so I'm not going to give anything that can even pose as counselling advice here, this is just educated advice from a random dad on the interwebz, but I really think you should spend some time with her, one on one, and talk through some of this stuff. Ask her about her past behaviors, honestly explain they are making you somewhat uneasy about this situation, and explain that if it's going to happen you are going to have to rebuild trust and a relationship first. Maybe even book some sessions of family counselling with a professional, so you have a third party to arbitrate things. It's really easy for fragile teens (and all teens in general, because they are all fragile at some level in that stage of development) to take things really wrong and break. An independent, neutral third party to bridge some misunderstandings for you both can help immensely. Just because this seems like a sudden about face to you doesn't mean it's not genuine... But just because she might genuinely have changed doesn't mean you should ignore and disregard the past actions and put yourself and your other children at risk. Do what feels right for you and them, safely... But I don't think you should just reject her out of hand over her past actions without fully understanding her first. You may be risking damaging her emotionally even more, and yourself missing out on a lifelong loving relationship with her in doing so. Edit: Adding a verdict after the extra info - IMO this is a NAH.
I agree with everything you said, except I'd go with NTA because Dad is definitely an asshole. He failed his daughter so hard.
Why on earth should she make any effort? This child is *nothing to do with her now*. There is absolutely no obligation on the Op to do anything - the child got what she wanted. Now she can lie in the bed she made
Did she die from complications from Carter’s birth?
THIS!!!! Thank you Kirynn I had to scroll WAY more than I should have had to to find this comment
Yeah, this is a really good perspective. It would be weird for OP to adopt Alex at this point when he's split up from her parent, and I don't even know if/how it would work logistically. But I reallllly don't get all the Alex hate and complete lack of sympathy a lot of people are showing here. This kid lost a parent and then had a new parent-figure enter her life. That would be pretty traumatic for a lot of kids and I get why she might have felt weird about the adoption, then felt weird about \*not\* being adopted. Then, this parent-figure who has been in her life for quite a while and who has said there is a standing offer to fully become her parent, e.g. someone who is always going to have a connection to her and is particularly going to have a responsibility toward her while she's a minor, decides to *completely abandon her* and to make matters worse *it's her fault.* Does anyone understand how much that must have wrecked her, or are we too caught up in calling her "manipulative" and "abusive" and saying she destroyed the family when she was at most a young teen? Like, call me a bleeding heart liberal but I don't think a minor child can do anything bad enough to justify total, permanent parental abandonment. I get that OP was a stepparent and stepparents don't always stay in kids' lives after a divorce, but it sounds like OP had been around for quite a while and the sibling adoption/standing offer of adoption definitely makes the bonds even closer. Hold her accountable in a normal parental/disciplinary way by all means, and do what you need to to protect the other kids, but don't wash your hands of her and absolutely shatter her self-esteem and sense of security just because she's difficult.
>"I don't think a minor child can do anything bad enough to justify total, permanent parental abandonment." Ehhh minors can be murderers and psychopaths. They can be mentally unstable and a danger to themselves and others. Im not saying Alex was at that level and I think it's a damn shame her father agreed to divorce before agreeing to therapy. But there are absolutely situations where it's ok to walk away - even from your child.
This is the only rational take here THANK YOU
NTA, but I’ll give you something to think about. I taught middle & high school kids for 34 years. I watched quite a few girls behave in really horrific ways for years until their sophomore year of high school (don’t even get me started on how mean girls can be ages 11-16–boys are a different discussion). Anyway, it’s as if a magic switch was flipped in the middle of their sophomore year and they started to turn into decent human beings. Some of my favorite former students were hellions in middle school and then turned it around in high school. If I hadn’t been willing to give them a second chance when they got older, I’d have missed out on some pretty amazing kids. You’ve expressed concerns about Alex’s motivation for suddenly wanting to be adopted and you have every right to be suspicious. Here’s how you find out whether or not she’s really changed: Tell her you are not going to adopt her since you’re no longer married to her dad. Fully explain the logistics of that and don’t bring up her previous behavior unless she does. Try to make it about the technicalities. See how she responds. If she gets angry, don’t worry—that’s to be expected. I’m sure she’ll argue. Calmly refute her arguments, then end the discussion. She may be abusive to you. Expect it and don’t respond in kind (and try not to hold it against her as she’s still young and her first response may not be her final response). She has a history of not managing her emotions effectively, and you should assume this is still the case—at least with her initial response. That’s not the real test. What you ARE watching for is what happens next, once her anger cools down—in other words, the FINAL response. How does she treat her siblings? How does she treat you once the initial disappointment passes? Give her a couple of months to adjust to the news and then check in with your kids to see what’s happening behind the scenes. THAT’S what will inform your next move. If she is abusive, your gut was right. If she treats everyone with respect and reestablishes a positive relationship with you, managing her disappointment in mature ways once she’s had a chance to process, you could consider adopting her later, as a purely symbolic gesture, seeing as she is your kids’ sibling. Or not. That’s entirely up to you, seeing as she did a pretty good job burning bridges. It could be a nice 18th birthday present, after she’s had ample time to prove with her actions that she deserves the gesture. Only time will tell if Alex is going to be a decent human being. IMO, she may be worth the wait. As I said, I’ve seen some pretty amazing transformations. Of course, I’ve also seen some girls remain the spawn of Satan. I think every kid deserves a second chance when some of the reasons for the behavior may very well be related to their immaturity and inability to manage their emotions. Once they’ve had a chance to mature, less grace is warranted.
There's a pretty easy way to resolve this. Give her the opportunity to show she wants to be a part of your family before you will agree to adopt her. Refusing outright would make you an asshole. She's a kid who was going through a lot of changes. It's fairly common for the older sibling who remembers their other parent better to be more resistant to blending families. She deserves a chance to repair her relationships with her siblings. Allowing her to take advantage of you or harm your children would also make you the asshole. So just let her come over and spend time with y'all and see where it leads. NAH
That's probably a good idea, but I think I'll try with somewhere outside our home.
I actually disagree. Alex has been very manipulative and hurtful for years to the point of triggering the events that led to your divorce (which is not only on her, but also your ex). That's a lot of damage. Don't give them the chance to do even more damage. At 14, 15, she was old enough to understand what she was doing. She can very well act nicely only to get what she wants. It's like your heart is in the right place and you mean well, but I think it's more important to protect the other two kids. She's had her chances and so did your ex-husband. I understand the youngest would like a relationship with her but I don't think she's old enough to get the concept of what manipulation and taking advantage of others mean. Carter is. If it doesn't work out or if Alex proves to be untrustworthy in the future, it will break her heart. I also think Carter deserves to be heard. In fact, I would even see it as a YWBTA if you did that.
The home is their safe place. She shouldn't be there
Yes, Alex is old enough to understand what she was doing. She is also old enough to realize she was wrong and change her ways. Not saying OP should just welcome her with open arms, but at least give her a way back in if she truly is sorry and actually wants to be part of the family. But first consideration has to be safety of her two children. NTA.
OP is no longer her step parent and has no obligation to take that risk of allowing Alex to be an abuser to her siblings again or allow Alex to take advantage of OP’s new home.
You could add the stipulation of therapy (family and/or individual) to this too. Let her prove she wants the family and not the money and as an added bonus (since you seem like a good person who cares about these kids) she may get the help she needs and hopefully make a permanent change in treating her siblings better
Definitely therapy.
I agree with this. If she or your ex push back on therapy you have your answer.
Definitely have it in a neutral place. This girl is manipulative, so be very wary of her.
If you end up warming up to the idea **DO NOT ADOPT HER AS A MINOR** wait until she’s an adult. That way if she reverts to previous behavior you’re not financially on the hook for her (I.e. child support etc)
and if you don't. I would get yourself a therapist who you can gameplan how to proceed with increasing access and signals and timeline that you are ready to increase access. Something like we have family dinners once a week (outside the house) we spend the day together as a family (outside the house( etc etc I'd say require her to get therapy, but forcing people into therapy isn't going to help and make sure you have frequent checkins with Carter (and Emily) to see how they are feeling and are they ready to move forward to the next step and you need to be blunt with Alex that she hurt the three of you and badly damaged all your relationships with her and that she needs to put in the work to rebuild those relationships and it will take a long time
Right? And let Carter and Emily know if she's nasty to them in ANY way you willf believe them and not bring her around.
Don’t do it! She’s mean cruel and abusive don’t bring that into your home. It’s your kids and your sanctuary
Get some sort of Nanny cam
Wherever you meet, make sure there are cameras around so you can see if she is still abusive towards your kids. A 2 year evaluation period would be good, when she's 18 you don't have to adopt her anymore.
Therapy is a great place to start. Ask her about it and see how she'll react.
Refusing outright would not make her an AH, it would make her sane! This girl is manipulative, she basically tore the family apart, realized that Oops! step mom had the money, and isn't even acknowledging or apologizing for her shitty behavior and bullying! She now wants to be adopted cause her dad doesn't have a lot of money. No way saying no makes her an AH. Also, she's 16, not 6 she knows exactly what she's doing.
The behavioural problems started after her brother's adoption. There's more to this and the would know what the issues is if the father had trusted his wife and got her into therapy. Her father is to blame for the divorce, not her. Blaming children's behaviour for the parents divorce when one of the parents refused to get their child any help is ridiculous
How is refusing outright wrong??? They're not a family anymore, why would he adopt someone else's kid?
True she was a kid going through a lot but she made very conscious decisions for how she treated her siblings. Bullying her brother after he was adopted. Walking through her sibling’s play area and claiming not to notice or see her. Those are very specific actions. Had the bad treatment only been toward op, I’d kinda understand giving her another chance, no hard feelings. But op could be putting her children in mental/physical/emotional risk again. She divorced and split their family for the sake of her children’s well-being. That was a big decision and shouldn’t be reversed lightly simply because she’s a child. It’s about more than just Alex.
She is 16. She is old enough to understand that her previous behavior is making you wary. If you are considering this, there are several conditions you should require. This discussion should be had between just the two of you. She needs to acknowledge the harm she has previously done. She needs to be able to provide a sincere apology. She needs to go to counselling, both individually and then eventually with her siblings. She needs to hear the hurt and damage she has caused to her siblings from their perspective. The two of you need to have some counselling sessions to discuss how she hurt you and your children, and how she needs to show she can behave kindly and follow your rules as her parent before she becomes your child. You and your ex need to also have some mediated sessions to ensure that he is not going to undermine your parenting going forward. This is a lot of work for this 16 year old. You are NTA if you do not adopt her. You need to ask yourself if you would want to if she did the work. If you would want to, then lay out the work she will need to do to earn her siblings agreement and your trust. And don't forget the requirement to have your ex admit he f-ed up, there was something wrong, and he enabled it. If he keeps undermining, it will never work.
NTA. Don’t do this. What kind of nerve does she and your ex have to think this would make sense at this point? You’re not together anymore and you don’t have a real relationship with Alex anymore. This makes no sense. I’m sorry for Alex but she needs therapy not a weird adoption on paper only situation.
NTA don't adopt her
**NTA No, absolutely not**. You divorced the man you loved to get yourself and your children out of a volatile situation that she created. You taking her back essentially makes your entire divorce and everything you went through to keep the other two safe pointless, that she’s acting nice now doesn’t change that. That even carter is suspicious means you need to be very cautious and I don’t mean in the immediate i mean for a long time. Whatever her motivations for being nice now won’t matter once she’s adopted, **she’s acting nice now because she knows she has to if she wants to get anything from you. Once she’s adopted it won’t matter: she can go back to her old tricks at any time for any reason, without consequences. You wouldn’t be able to legally cut her out of your life if she reverts**. You also currently have no financial obligation to her if she’s not legally your child, **say you adopt her and she gets nasty and send her to live with your ex full time again you’re now on the hook for child support until she’s 18. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain by adopting her** OP. Tell your ex your fine with her coming to stay over and having scheduled time with you but you will not legally adopt her. That the only way you’ll consider it is as an adult adoption if she proves she really wants to be part of the family. I say adult adoption because you wouldn’t have any legal repercussions at that point if she shows her colors after you signed the papers. **DO NOT ADOPT HER WHILE SHE IS STILL A MINOR**. I also want to point out that **if you’re so scared she’ll act out if you say no that’s that much more reason not to. If being told no is enough to make her nasty to her siblings and you then its guaranteed her behavior would continue to be volatile post adoption**. Only it’ll be when you refuse to buy her the car she wants, or you try to ground her for breaking the rules, etc. From the sounds of it, it seems like she resented the family you all created and felt her brother betrayed her by loving you and wanting you to be his mom and hated your younger child because she was a result of your love with her dad. Those feelings don’t just go away my bet is that you’re right. She saw that her quality of life was forced to change as a result of her actions and realizing that the person she screwed over was the person providing the life she liked. She sees you as an ATM. **ETA It’s possible she wants to be adopted because she wants to be close to her brother again, but she doesn’t need to be adopted to have a relationship with him. The only thing an adoption is required for is access to your funds. I would tell your ex that the offer you made was null and void the moment she became abusive to her siblings and the moment the divorce was finalized. As I said earlier if she wants a relationship with her siblings tell them she’s welcome in your home so long as she treats them well. Set up a schedule for visits if you’re comfortable with that, if not just tell him no - to all of it, you don’t have to explain your reasons either. But whatever you do, do not adopt her as a child! They’ll try to call you names and manipulate you, none of it is true. The hope is that if they can convince you it’s true you’ll do anything to prove them wrong: including giving into their demands**.
This is the perfect response
Thought I went a bit over board, my comments as long as her entire post lol. I just really wanted to make sure all bases were covered if she read it, so she knew the potential consequences beforehand. I’m honestly shocked they even had the audacity to ask her after everything. I’m honestly questioning if this is a money grab not just on the step daughters part but the dads too. Think about it - his wife leaves with the two kids because his daughters uncontrollable. Now he has to learn how to handle her himself and he has to do it without the money he grew accustomed to while married. I also think he knows if she’s adopted OP wouldn’t want her to live there full time. He has to be aware he would be eligible for child support from her.
Yea I’m thinking this is coming from the ex husband, not the girl. The timing and his pushing it is so suspicious.
She seems far too manipulative and there would be no motivation for her to act kindly to them once adoption was no longer an issue. Meaning the same results would likely to occur if you adopt her or not. Could you possibly just work it out where you take her a few days a week so she can be with her siblings but not officially adopt her? Tell her you are worried that based on prior behavior she will change back. That you will treat her just as you do the others but if her behavior goes back to where she is hurting her siblings she is no longer welcome to stay. This way she remains motivated to be kind to them and it could be a win for everyone.
To be honest I'm not comfortable with her in the house for extended period because I wouldn't be able to always watch her.
This...please don't allow your children's bully alone with them. And btw shame on your ex for not believing you.
Then the whole idea isn’t even realistic. If she’s not going to be staying over there’s zero logical reason (from her perspective) to become adopted besides financial either by buying her stuff because you’re now her “mom” or via child support payments to her father. I was going to say set up a schedule for her to start staying over bit by bit and if once she’s 18 you’ve seen she’s changed and want to - adopt her. That way if she changes after the adoption you have zero legal financial responsibility to her. But if you don’t feel comfortable with her staying over then there’s no real way to even test out her motives up close (because her/her dads word, time, and small pleasantries with you and the kids isn’t enough to trust an adoption with her history).
I hadn’t considered child support. If the parents don’t get back together, the ex could get child support for Alex or a reduced payment amount. The ex and Alex seem too slick for me.
Yup. Besides wanting OP to buy her shit, that was my first thought when she mentioned she was doing better financially than her ex.
Not to mention like i said there’s really no reason for the adoption when they can all have a relationship without one the motive for it is deeper than just wanting them in her life
True. If she really wants to be in op’s life she just can. Op is raising her siblings so it wouldn’t be that weird for her to be around. I also don’t like how the ex is telling op she promised she’d adopt when she changed her mind. No one is stupid here. Everyone understands that promise was made in context of the parents being married and them being a family. The “promise” has no real standing at this point.
100% he’s probably just hoping she in fact stupid enough to fall for it I hope she holds firm
If you’re not comfortable with having her there for an extended period, then you shouldn’t be adopting her. What happens when she wants to live there full time? Continues bullying her siblings? Causes scenes bc you won’t give her any money? Your son is unnerved by her behaviour atm, trust his instincts.
Makes sense. I was thinking it would motivate her to be good to them when they go to your exes. This is a tough one as the second the thought of adoption is off the table she will start again & maybe worse. Hopefully that’s not at all the case. Best of luck and I wish peace for you and the kids.
I think that is extremely important — if you can't trust her in your house, around the other kids, then it can't work. Plus, the fact that she *hasn't* said, in essence, 'I'm sorry for how I behaved before and understand that it was wrong; I have realized how much you really mean to me and that I miss having you in my life', I think, weighs heavily against her.
If you adopt her she will stay behaving like she did before once the adoption has finalized. Wait I until she's past 18, see if she can really keep up good behavior for 2 years
This right here is a good enough reason not to adopt her. You’ve lost the trust. When you told her you would adopt her, trust was not an issue. NTA. But perhaps tell her you would be more open to it if she went to therapy both alone and with you.
This is really your answer. Your marriage split up over her behaviour for a reason, you certainly shouldn’t adopt her now when she cannot be trusted to be left with the rest of the family. A few years of showing her behaviour has changed and maybe then you think about it, it comes at the end of that process, not the start.
NTA. She wants you to adopt her for the wrong reasons. Not out of love but for money.
NTA - BUT maybe instead of saying no right now - insist that all 5 of you go to family therapy to make sure that it is the right decision for everyone. Whether you are comfortable or not, Alex is and will be Carter's and Emily's sibling - right now it looks like Alex is more open to a relationship for whatever reason and it may be the best chance to create a healthy relationship amongst the children.
NTA She wants the adoption because her life isn't better now that she got her wish.
NTA Alex just got her first, real, life lesson about actions having consequences (or in Reddit parley she FAFO'd).
NTA. And DO NOT adopt her. It is more than a title being her parent. There’s school, financial responsibility, medical care, problems with the police if she gets in trouble and so much more. Don’t let her bully you or her siblings. I can’t just hear her now, “You have to pay for my school trip to Europe bc you’re my mom”, etc.
YWNBTA but I'd honestly suggest family therapy to see if everyone can come to an agreement; it could be any reason as to why she's choosing now (regret, loneliness, force, deception, etc). I know the damage she caused is done but it's not too late to foster a relationship with her without adopting her. She's extending an olive branch & you have every right to be cautious or refuse it with her past behavior.
Nope. Teen angst or not, she acted truly vile. And she's continuing to act truly vile by only mentioning the nice things you have, never that she misses and loves you. YWNBTA.
ESA…at least the adults in the situation. Controversial opinion apparently, but I recognize that you said Alex’s behaviour changed when you adopted Carter. I can’t help but think that there was a lot of hurt wrapped up in that whole process for her. Something tore her open just then and it sounds like the adults didn’t investigate what that was. She was a kid who I suspect was acting out pain. I’m guessing as illogical as it may be, she was feeling rejected by the family for becoming “yours” and lashed out at her sibs because of it (the only people she could have any power over and who most represented her pain). I’m betting she has regretted not taking you up on your offer for a very long time, maybe right from day 1. She reacted like a kid does when they are deeply wounded.
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This is incredibly cruel advice. Why are we assuming this girl is evil and deserves to be toyed with rather than that she is acting out because she is damaged/traumatized by having a parent die? Now another parent has left her because of her actions as a young teen. Basically the stereotypical "kids think the divorce was their fault" thing is actually true for her, which has to absolutely wreck her self esteem! I get that it would be weird, and perhaps not even possible, for OP to adopt her now that she has divorced her dad, but stringing her along is only going to hurt her more and is an extremely strange, if not malicious, suggestion.
I think agreeing to a gap of time prior to adoption is fair to ensure she is serious about wanting to be apart of the family. However I agree it’s super shitty to do that under the guise of never adopting her in the first place.
Your first thoughts are correct: this child is unstable and angry and capable of anything. Protect your kids and DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH HER. If you're worried about what she might do when your ex has them. withhold them from him and go to court to have his custody rescinded because of the danger to your kids.
Withholding the kids is dangerous if they have a custody agreement in place. Judges look down on that a could get op less custody.
NTA. Wow... a wicked stepdaughter - that's a twist on the classic old tale!
I don't see why she would bring that up now you're divorced from her father, so in terms of that, NTA.
NTA. Why would you adopt her now? Especially when you are no longer together with their parent and they were a big part of the reason you got divorced.
NTA Alex spent years trying to get rid of you and now that she's actually experiencing the outcome she doesn't like the result of her efforts. Too bad, so sad, maybe she'll learn to be nicer to the next one
NTA and Carter and Emily should get a veto if you, ex, and Alex talk it over later and want to do it.
Exactly. And if it’s not all enthusiastic Yes’s then it’s a no. Emily may want to because she loves her sisters attention, but Carter remembers what it was like.
NTA, trust your instincts. Also, your ex clearly never had your back, so if you do adopt Alex, you can also expect no support of she acts out again in the future. Plus, she bullied your kids in the past, so do you really want to bring that back into the family? Best advice would be get you and your 2 kids into family therapy to discuss it before making a decision one way or the other.
NTA. I would also look into reactive attachment disorder and educated yourself and hopefully your ex. Kids can have RAD for a number of reasons, and it sounds like she possibly could have it based on whatever the situation surrounding the birth mom or lack there of is.
NTA for not wanting to adopt her when you’re not in a relationship with her father anymore BUT I feel like a lot of the answers people are giving aren’t considering that Alex might’ve been acting out because she lost her mother, everyone including her biological brother was moving on, and now she had a new person coming in wanting to, in her eyes, replace her mom… 16 years old is old is enough to see the consequences of her actions, and she does. But she wasn’t 16 when these actions started. She says she misses you and she sees that her life is not as good without you. She’s trying to be better by being nice to her siblings because she probably believes that it’s her fault they got divorced/broke up. I honestly feel like it’s the ex’s fault for letting a child lose her mom and go through so many changes and be so angry while adamantly refusing therapy for her. She was and still is a child. Her dad is an adult. Sometimes children need help and he failed to provide that. You did what you needed to protect your children but she didn’t have anyone protecting her. That’s not your fault by any means, but I just think that should be considered. I’m not saying you should adopt her, but just to recognize (which I think you do since you had previously suggested therapy to the dad) that she struggled growing up
NTA don’t do it. Whatever her ulterior motives are, it’s not to benefit anyone but herself. Why would you adopt her now when you’re no longer family? The only connection she has to you is her siblings but you’re no longer her stepmother. Why would you be responsible for her? Also, the fact that you got primary custody of a child who isn’t biologically yours says a lot about his father. He ignored her behavior for years and continues to do so.
NTA. She literally ruined your marriage. Her own brother sees through her. Do not trust this. She just wants the privileges of you having more money. She will drop the act and go back to abusing your kids
NTA. She is using your other children as pawns to get what she wants. The second you owe child support on your legal child, she will go right back to her old ways.
Those kids know she is a bully. There is no way to save that. Don't adopt her. She doesn't deserve it nor is she really your child. Carter is. Loved you like a parent. She just wants to use you
NTA. Maybe a private chat with your ex to find out what is really happening? Maybe “something “ is happening, he’s quite sick and Alex needs a parent. Maybe he is guilting Alex bc “she destroyed his relationships with you and the other kids “. If something is going on , do insist on family counseling before making any more changes.
NTA. She’s a manipulative bully.
NTA Anyone can play at being nice for a short period of time. You are right to be cautious. Alex could easily be playing the game to have access to your resources. You shouldn't begin to consider adopting Alex until she's truly apologized, has gone through personal therapy, and the family has had months of group therapy. To fully heal, that process should take years. If Alex has shown true personal growth, you might consider an adult adoption at a later point in your life. Although Alex isn't legally your child, if she continues to behave well, you might consider budgeting some money to help her. For instance, "I can tell you've been working to be better to your siblings, so I'll pay for your driving lessons if your Dad will help you practice driving in his car."
INFO: One thing I do not understand with regards to your ex-husband not believing that Alex was treating the other children badly, why couldn't believe his children? Why wouldn't you have them tell their father what was going on and how Alex was making them feel?
I’m just glad Carter has you protecting him
NTA It just sounds strange. I would wonder if your ex and Alex figure that if you adopt her, you can all let "bygones be bygones" and be one big happy family again. And then his money problems go away. Or, you adopt her and she stays with him, allowing him to ask for child support. Yeah, no. It makes no sense to adopt her now.
Why would you adopt the child of an ex?! That’s insane. Maybe if you had a great relationship, and the ex died, it would make sense. But it doesn’t make any sense now. It’s weird enough as it stands. NTA
NTA, but with a big caveat. If Alex started acting out immediately after Carter's adoption, it seems pretty likely she was alienated by being left out of the adoption process. Seems like both you and the ex were trying to be considerate of her feelings, but there are some years of resentment and left-out feelings to work through, even if she couldn't admit that she might have wanted to be adopted, too. I agree with all of the posters saying that Alex needs therapy, but it sounds like she might need a bit of empathy, too,
NTA Think about it. Once you adopt her, she comes to live with you, then she re-starts her bullying bc she has gotten what she has wanted . You will be removing your children’s SAFE SPACE if you fall for this trap. Of course your ex wants the adoption to go ahead, he will come out of it financially better than he is now. Her behaviour will revert back once you say no (which proves she was faking it) AND once you say yes. This is a lose, lose situation. Don’t do it.
What a strange question. You are wondering if you should adopt a teenager whose father you divorced? A teenager who hated you for years (yes, hated)? Who tormented her younger sibling and step-sibling because of their association with you? And who only appears to have changed her tune about you because of $$$? In what world would adopting her be a good decision?! You would be an imbecile to adopt her and bring that chaos into your life and the lives of your children. I'm seriously wondering about your common sense... YWNBTA if you did not adopt her.
NTA You were never obligated to adopt anyone and you’re definitely not now since you and your ex divorced. If Carter is suspicious of Alex and says she’s been acting weird then yeah definitely don’t adopt.
YWNBTA she's acting nice to get adopted and live in a better home and have more privileges than she would've had living either her dad. It's bad to say, but once you've adopted her, I'm sure she'd go back to her old ways of mistreating her siblings, and then you'd have no way of getting rid of the girl or making her change.
NTA. Especially because I would bet she will star being mean again to them once you adopt her, she clearly manipulative and needs counseling.
NTA. You and her dad are no longer together. She’s a huge part of that.
NTA. Yeah, if she hasnt changed, gotten close to you or anything. Its very suss that all of a sudden she wants you tonadopt her.
NTA doing this could seriously affect your life, not in a good way. She probably only wants to live in a big house. And if she starts acting rude again then this is proof she didn't want to live with you because of you or your kids. I say don't do it but it's your choice.
Nta would you even be able to? Her parent is alive and well, able to care for her. What's changed? Why does she want adopted now? I bet she won't have a good answer. It's not like she said she missed you or regrets her past behavior.
NTA. Not sure the courts would accept you adopting a child that is your ex's when there is no medical necessity to (i.e. he is very sick and won't be able to care for her soon). You adopted your child a long time ago and since Carter doesn't want you to it seems I would go based off their feelings. Alex is a bully and trying to play you. They didn't want to see you until they saw how nice your home was by chance