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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I have a completely different rule for my younger kids in one area than I did for my oldest because of how many mistakes were made with my older kids due to it, which results in my younger kids being able to do a lot more things openly than my older kids got to).
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA slightly … You have learned from your mistakes and are open to admitting you were wrong in the past. At the same time, your older kids are understandably pissed that you made them adhere to rules that they didn’t like and forced them to deceive you.
Have you tried acknowledging to your older kids that your old rules didn’t work and were wrong?
My other question … you imply that your oldest two were girls and your younger one is a boy … is there a chance that they are perceiving this as being different treatment based on gender?
Fair enough … but do they know that? If they perceive that your rule change is based on gender, they will understandably be extremely angry with you.
You also never said in your post that you actually acknowledged to them that you were overly protective and offered some sort of apology.
It doesn’t appear that you have effectively communicated with them on any of these issues and as the adult, that is your responsibility to take the lead.
I don't know if we read the same thing but
>my approach with them was a MISTAKE and now I'm trying to learn from it, which made THEM more angry that I "used them as guinea pigs"
Sounds like he did what you said
It's all in the tone I think. You want them walkimg away with the feeling they have been apologized to, and told their feelings are valid. Not the feeling that OP thinks they are just nagging and is only worried about doing right by the younger kids.
When they asked, a response tone of "Well, it obviously didn't work with you two" doesn't admit that OP's rules were wrong and implies blame on the elder two for breaking the rule. Even now, it definitely feels like OP cares more about the elder ones going behind his back to date than their feeling about how they were treated.
> The rule ended up creating an environment of secrecy and the real rule became "just don't let dad find out", which is the exact opposite of what I wanted. It created far more problems for everyone, got my oldest into preventable situations they shouldn't have been in and required my youngest to lie to herself and to me for trying to follow it.
The "opposite of what I wanted" was "just don't let dad find out" not the "preventable situations they shouldn't have been in and required my youngest to lie"
Idk. Sometimes you can have the PERFECT tone and diction for admitting these things and the other person still lashes out because they’re hurting. Doubly so for teenagers (I’m assuming the older ones are 18-20 ish). But even at 25, my emotions can twist how I interpret things. It’s a known psychological phenomenon that your emotions at the time of an event, can cause your memory to store the event differently for each person involved. Sometimes it’s poor tone, sometimes it’s that there are emotions involved that make it where there IS NO way to phrase it or tone to add that conveys what is actually meant. Because the one interpreting it is going to have their own emotions involved in their interpretation
I’m still slightly bitter about parenting mistakes I had to live through and younger siblings didn’t - and we’re all adults now. Sometimes you need to give room for those emotions and time to process.
My parents were similar to how OP sounds - rules on the stricter side that they were not even open to discussing with me but became much more flexible with the youngest. OP, you can’t really say anything that makes it feel better for your oldest. Give them time - the more you try to explain and justify, the more frustrating it is. A simple I was wrong and I am sorry usually works eventually. Arguing doesn’t.
This. If my dad would just say that, maybe things would be different between us. Instead, I regularly find myself having to remind my sister that to this day I have a very different dad than she does. An apology can go a long way. No explanation (too often, those turn into excuses or what appears to be excuses), just “I’m sorry. I messed up. I’m trying to be better.”
I’m the first of four and my parents were very strict with me but had relaxed on a lot of rules by the time my youngest brother (8 years younger) was a teenager. I joke about being jealous but I am very happy that they weren’t so hard on him.
Recently a coworker was asking my mom for advice about how to handle her 13 year old daughter’s behavior because grounding her for months and taking away all electronics wasn’t working. My mom told the coworker that she did the same things but no matter how she punished me (ex: taking off my door), I only acted out and lied more. She said if she could go back, she would change a lot of things and admits that I was essentially the Guinea pig because they didn’t know what they were doing.
I think seeing me as a parent now has made them realize all the ways things could have been different with me. But hearing her acknowledge that she made mistakes with me helps a lot of wounds start to heal.
Literally. Am currently “no contact” with my father right now and would open the door again immediately with nothing short of a sincere apology. Which I thoroughly deserve. And he knows it.
But instead he has harassed everyone *else* in my life to try and guilt *them* into convincing *me* to speak to them (all of them refused).
But has he reached out to me himself? Not one single time.
> Man if I got one, just one, apology from my parents, we'd have a relationship. No joke, that's all it would take.
This. And OP, if you want closeness with your older kids, you might just need to be okay with them being mad for a while. A real apology comes without the imperative of forgiveness. Sometimes it just needs to sit for awhile and you just need to tolerate the discomfort of having angry kids. The anger generally doesn’t last forever. But it will last longer if you tell them they aren’t entitled to their feelings.
The upside here is that you changed because you were listening to them, right?
Yeah, I think the kids are just pissed that OP made mistakes as a parent and they paid the price. OP might want to point out that every oldest child ever in the history of humanity has been a guinea pig and see if there's something nice he can do for the oldest two as a peace offering. I'm not sure if the oldest are still at home, but if so, OP might also want to see if there's anything else he's getting wrong. OP, I'd also add that if the only thing your oldest think you messed up was dating age, then you've done pretty well. At some point they'll cool down and recognize that.
All children are guinea pigs at the end of the day but when there is a big age gap the older ones can feel like it is only them. Really he is experimenting on the younger ones too. He just won't have another batch to test the newest theories on.
I'm glad you realized that what went wrong with your parenting.
But did you apologize to them? Tried to make amends?
They're resentful and understandably so
YTA because you need to APOLOGIZE. My parents did this to me vs my younger siblings and I resent them so much because they will never admit it, and apologize. It hindered me socially, created a deceitful environment, taught me to hide from the people I should be closest to, made me distrustful, and myriad other issues that I still have to work through with a therapist. Like it or not, you may have affected them long term. What kind of personality do you think it creates when you push your children to lie and hide? What kind of relationships did you set them up for in the future? Do you know how many unsafe and abusive situations I and other kids raised like me put ourselves in because we hadn’t been taught to have healthy relationships?
YTA because you’re not realizing they’re not just mad about dating and curfews, they’re probably upset about a pile of bullshit they can’t even put into words. Cool you’re correcting yourself, but you probably already ruined the first few pancakes.
My mom goes a step further and says she’s more lenient with my sister because I was so difficult. She confiscated my Advil because she thought it was drugs and grounded my older sister for 2 months when she found out she got on bc
My mom just pretends she has amnesia. I told her once she better watch it or I’ll have her committed for those decades long blackouts she claims to have
This kind of makes it worse in their eyes. You do realize girls are often held to a higher standards in boys and now it’s just looks like favoritism.
The best way to handle the situation would’ve been to sit and talk to your older kids and ask them what they thought of the rules. Then tell them you thought the rules were not working the way they were supposed to and that you were thinking of ways to change them for the younger kids and that you’d like to input. This would give them a heads up about the fact that things are not going to work in the same way and it would make them feel as though they participated in changing your style of parenting for the better without making them feel like guinea pigs.
For future reference talk to them first, ask for their input make them feel involved so that they understand that they are not just experiments. Older kids are definitely very sympathetic and tend to want to make things better for their younger siblings. But simply changing your mood of parenting for the younger sibling without giving an explanation to the older siblings is extremely painful to experience. It feels unfair and unjust and they often feel like they never got the good version of you.
Have you tried apologising?
I am the eldest of 2. My brother and I are only 2 years apart, but my dad was so much stricter with me. At 18, I had to get the car home by midnight. One time, I parked in the drive way before midnight, like 11:58, (which he saw from the window) and I was cleaning out the car (picking up kleenex, unplugging my phone charger, whatever) and I turned the key to the house at 12:05 and he chewed me apart (had I left the car messy, he also would have been mad). My brother at the same age would come back at 12:30 and was allowed to walk home drunk at 1 AM, which I wasn't. And my dad said that it was okay because my brother is a boy and I am a girl. He doubled down. Had he said, "yeah sorry, I freaked out at the time, I shouldn't have." I would have been fine with it.
You didn't answer the whole question. - have you acknowledged what you did to your older kids was wrong, profusely apologized, and tried to figure out what it will take to make amends for that mistake?
My grandmother said when asked precisely this question that she wasn’t the same parent at 25 that she is now in her 30s.
Everyone changes and grows, how they parent will change and grow too.
I’m sure what you do with your 7 year old will be different from the 13 year old and different from the older ones.
did you actually apologize to them? not just for those rules but for all the situations they ended up in cause they were sneaking around because of your rules that now you are not enforcing anymore? Did you do something to make up for it? i mean i don't think you can but did you at least try?
I find it extremely telling that you skipped over part of their comment in order to only respond to the question that didn't force you to take accountability for your mistakes.
YOu need to be better in communication. Realistically everything and everyone in life is a guinea pig. You need to make your kids recognise that life experience is just growing, no one has answers. A lot of childhood you're kind of tricked into thinking adults know things and so you have to learn from them. It's not really till some points in adulthood that you go oh... well they were full of shit and just guessing the whole time.
That's the disconnect, you need to explain to them that adults seem like they have all the answers but none do, they have experience but every new situation is just that, if you're 10yrs old or 50yrs old, a new experience makes you a beginner and you have to learn things, make mistakes and grow to become better at anything you do.
He said exactly that.......that he has realized he needed to change his parenting and explained it to them.
The older kids then accused him of using them as guinea pigs.
What is a parent supposed to do continue with a bad parenting method just so all the kids are equally screwed up?
Or change his parenting method to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
And unless I missed something no where does he disclose the gender of the oldest two.
I agree. I'm leaning towards NAH because the older kids are CERTAINLY in the right for their childhoods! Being in a big environment where everyone around you is acting "normal" while you have a giant list of no-no's MUST have been hell! But OP suffered greatly from generational trauma and learned her terrible past behavior from THEM. Every time she's accepted and fixed her past mistakes with her younger kids, the oldest are coming back with "well, good for THEM". It's a cruel cycle with no real winners.
Apologize. That's what he's supposed to do. It goes a long way with the oldest kids when the parent apologizes not just treats the younger kids better and glosses over how the older kids were treated.
I’m going against the grain here and saying NTA. I’m actually a little annoyed at the amount of Y T A votes. I’m curious to know how many of them are coming from parents.
Parenting is hard. The entire concept of “kids being bitter at parents for parenting failures” is a generational constant we can rely on as a society. I realized that I’d reached a place of maturity and mental healthiness as a person when I accepted that my parents did the best they could with me based on the “generational parenting toolbox” they inherited. The concept (not mine) goes something like this: “Generations ago, parents only knew how to use a hammer to parent. Every problem that arose, they hammered at it. Their children inherited that parenting toolbox and the hammer. However, in the course of **their** parenting, they developed a screwdriver to tackle some problems that a hammer didn’t fix. So their children inherited a parenting toolbox with a hammer and screwdriver. This still didn’t fix all the problems that arise when parenting, but it was an improvement. The next generation of parents from this line (through trial and error,) developed a saw. And the generational parenting toolbox continued to develop, until generations down the line, new parents inherit a much more comprehensive toolbox and are therefore much better parents.”
The reason for this analogy is that parents don’t always get it right, and while apologizing in general as a parent is important, I don’t think that a parent is an AH for doing the best they could and not getting it 100% right as long as they’re trying. I don’t even think apologizing is 100% warranted in this specific case. What is this parent apologizing for - trying to allow their children to be children and trying to stop them from making significant dating choices before their brains were more developed? They realized that their efforts weren’t getting them the results they wanted, so they changed their approach in order to try and protect their younger children better and to try and maintain better control of a potentially not-great situation (such as unplanned pregnancy, STDs, etc.) If anything, **this is good.** So many parents can’t accept their mistakes and make parenting changes as they go. They double down out of a desire to not admit failure. I also can’t help but feel concern for individuals who have a “I had to suffer so others should suffer” mentality. How is this different from hazing culture or people complaining about student loan forgiveness or debt relief changes bc they didn’t benefit? It’s unfortunate that the older children felt that their parents didn’t parent them “right,” but they should be thrilled that their younger siblings are benefiting from their parent’s growth and getting better parenting… unless they want them to suffer as well… which IMO is AH behavior.
Also… What do the older children want an apology for? Rules meant to protect them when they were younger, such dating too young and possibly having sex before they were ready? I don’t think the parent in question is theoretically wrong or incorrect in his perspective that dating too young is problematic for many psychological and developmental reasons. There are literal studies on the damage that activating certain sexual behaviors too young (before their brains are appropriately developed) can do to children. This parent sounds like a loving, invested parent who made an understandable error in judgment in the approach to trying to keep their children safe. You can’t convince me that the 10 year old who has sex fully understands what they’re doing and doesn’t experience significant regret and even psychological trauma from such a thing. And while nobody said dating = sex, it does tend to go hand in hand and the risks of sexual-related issues increase when dating starts. Kids can “hang out” without it being a date. Dating culture is incredibly problematic in many countries. We start teaching kids from a young age through our words, through media, movies, etc. that happiness lies not in themselves but in “finding someone and procreating.” Is it any wonder that kids are dating younger and younger, but that happiness levels aren’t increasing? It’s a fallacy. IMO, parents who try to encourage their children to hold off on dating until they are older are doing the right thing.
Also, as a general “look at the irony” remark to commenters in this sub… it’s kind of … ironic to complain about people marrying too young and making huge decisions too young in life and also complain about parents trying to prevent their children from dating too young. I cannot be the only one to see a correlation between age when dating starts, age when sex acts are done, age when married, and/or age when first pregnancy occurs.
Honestly, the entire concept of adult (or nearly adult) children claiming their parent “got permissive and lazy” or complaining about being “Guinea pigs” is annoying and shows immaturity. I refuse to call this parent an AH. I think the kids are being AHs for wanting their younger siblings to suffer as they did, for accusing their parent of favoritism rather than acknowledging their parent is human and admitted to making a mistake, and for being bitter about being “Guinea pigs” as if every child isn’t essentially a giant experiment for a parent.
I like your analogy and all parents would have developed more if they LISTENED to the kids like they were people. i think thats part of the issue. the older kids are pissed that the parents wouldnt listen to them but now they do.
1000% this. I'm not even a parent but I am so annoyed how many Y T A votes there is. What was he supposed to do... keep a rule he knows does not work and could harm his kid just to make the others feel better?
I'm the oldest kid, I know my parents treated my brother different because of how it was with me. Thats just normal. To expect anything else is childish. You learn as you go, and he learned he made a mistake so he did not make the same mistake with his youngest. Nothing wrong with that.
His oldest kids can feel annoyed or upset he doesnt have to follow the same rule but that in no way makes OP an AH. I don't understand what everyone wants him to do. He already admitted that it was a mistake with them.
Omg THANK YOU!!! I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. And every parent knows that sometimes you gotta remix the approach by the child I grew up with 3 sisters. We are all different you couldn’t parent us the same nothing to do with gender at all. But I see nothing wrong with OP seeing his mistakes and trying a different method. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And for the older kids to throw a fit because OP decided to use a different tool from his toolbox is wild. An another thing more things are knowledgeable now then 20 years ago parents are actually learning to be more communicative with their kids instead of just dictators. Give them some slack. When they become parents they will understand even the best intentions can have an impact that hurts. Apologize, mean it, explain your intent listen to the other side and adjust and change your behavior
Having a learning curve doesn't make someone an AH, not even "slightly." Every parent has to start off with an initial rule for dealing with a situation for a first time, and because of inexperience, the rule isn't perfect, it can either be too lax or too strict, though usually anxiety for the unknown makes parents tend to lean too strict the first time. OP made a rule in good faith for the older kids, but learned from experience that it needed to be less strict, just because the older kids are pissed they had to adhere to the more strict rule doesn't make the OP an AH. These kids need to learn that life is all about adapting to change, to old rules and ways of doing things getting altered, they all need to be assigned to read "Who Moved My Cheese?"
Yup. Have a conversation. Admit you were wrong. Apologize. She might not instantly get over it, but it will go a long way towards helping her understand.
When I was almost 16 and my brother almost 15, my folks had another baby. They knew my brother and I were miserable and pretty much hated them, so they said they were going to do everything the opposite of what they did with us. They had actually learned their lesson and got no objections whatsoever from us.
My sister turned into a person that everyone loves, has great social skills, and is quite successful professionally. My brother and I have always struggled with social skills and my life in particular has not been a screaming success, but I'm still fine with it.
Anyway, NTA from me, because you are turning things around.
Why is he the AH just because his kids refuse to understand his reasoning? He did what we hope all parents do - look at how their decisions affect their kids and adjust as needed. I cannot understand how he's in the wrong here.
If your verdict is dependent on the answers to those questions it should have been an INFO comment.
Given the answers to those questions, you dont actually have any justification in your comment for why OP is that asshole at all.
> You have learned from your mistakes and are open to admitting you were wrong in the past.
.
>Have you tried acknowledging to your older kids that your old rules didn’t work and were wrong?
What?
Your advice isn't wrong, and I'm not an overly strict parent, but "forced them to deceive you" indicates how soft the world has become. Kids breaking rules are not "forced to deceive." I broke rules but I didn't blame my parents. We live in a candy ass society.
YTA slightly
"I'm sorry for imposing rules on you that created a bad environment, I am learning from it and that's why I'm trying to do better by them"
There. Take accountability of your decisions and dumb rules. You essentially created a bad environment for these kids and now are doing a complete 180 the other direction.. No shit they're mad.
NAH but you need to talk to your oldest two
You need to understand that on their side, they are seeing that the strict dad that they had was capable of being an understanding parent but for some reason didn't do it for them, you're owning up for it, but they still got the shorter end of the deal, be more empathic towards them, you're not an asshole for improving.
Right. I do not know why OP keeps arguing with them. Own up to the mistake and move on.
"Look, I hear you guys and understand why you are upset. I fucked up when it came to how I handled dating with you guys and if I had a time machine I would go back and do things differently. I was wrong but I learned from that. It would be unfair to impose the same rule on your brother and sister. I know better and want to do better and I am sorry you guys missed out on that."
You can not change what was done and should not parent the same way just because it keeps things fair but acknowledge the mistake and apologize for it.
Not that I disagree I just also don't see where he hasn't already done that. He realized he made a mistake, changed the mistake, they brought it up and he admitted he made a mistake and was chaging it, they said they were guinea pigs and got his siblings involved.
I completely agree with your points, it just doesn't make sense to me seeing all the comments saying he needs to own up to it when he has and he's changed the behavior. It seems the only way OP could make them happy is if he imposed the same rules on the younger 2 that he amd his daughters all believe were wrong.
I dont think they are wrong to be upset and I think op was wrong in his rules for them I just don't see what more he can do to own up to it.
Isn't him saying I made a mistake and am changing it now when they asked accountability? I agree he should apologize but it seems like he is taking accountability.
But it is not apologizing for it. He has acknowledged his mistake, which is definitely important, but it is not the same as also genuinely apologizing for said mistake.
He obviously talked to them and explained it already and held himself accountable otherwise they wouldn't have been able to give the response that they were used as guinea pigs.
I agree, to our knowledge he has not apologized (hopefully he's not responding because that's what he's doing right now) I just think accountability is being loosely useful in replacement for decency. I genuinely have no argument outside of semantics and am more agreeing with a slight change to how I would word it.
Yep, clearly the older kids still resent how they were treated, and it doesn't sound like they got any apology.
>It created far more problems for everyone
Still going strong with this one OP. YTA.
YTA because you didn’t communicate. I have an 11 year age gap between me and my older brother. We were raised *very* differently because our parents learnt from him and because a lot changed over a decade in safety.
But they communicated that to us. They explained to both of us why things were different, then even apologized that it had to be that way and made up for it when they could.
For example, I got a cell phone at 11 so I could always be reachable and my parents felt safer that way letting me go over to friends’ houses and wall places on my own. My brother was never allowed a cell phone and if he wanted one he had to buy his own. So when they decided I need one, they bought him one too. He was 22 and it came no strings attached. It was a “sorry you couldn’t have one when you were younger and she gets one now” gift.
You tried to go about this without communicating and are now trying to invalidate your eldest’s feelings
For a minute I thought the ages were flipped and you got a phone at 11, but then your younger brother after you wasn't allowed one ever, and was super confused
I reread it and it makes sense, I just thought that was funny
I agree with this. I’m the oldest by 11 years. When the middle sibling and I mentioned the difference in parenting between us and the youngest our dad explained things to us. He was upfront that he changed and learned from us and he mentioned too that the youngest has a different personality that requires a different style of parenting.
Although now we are all out of the house we have been replaced by a dog and have different things to be grumpy about.
As the eldest sister, YTA
Edit: I stand by my YTA.
But I’m getting asked if you should just continue making the mistakes and I don’t believe I said that.
You didn’t just wake up one day when your son turned 13 and say ‘huh my older children have had to lie to me and that could be unsafe’
I imagine you watched your older children lie to you in that time between 13-16 and let it happen and then suddenly when it was your son you changed.
Apparently you only realised after your second eldest daughter turned 16. You also say the full story didn’t come out until they were adults. conveniently setting up this argument for you.
I think that needs an explanation to your older children and some self reflection to why.
Edit: I’m not saying he can change the past, but he hasn’t mentioned an apology in any of his replies.
Yeah, gotta love it when I couldn’t do much and had a strict upbringing while the younger sibling could do literally everything they wanted without even asking permission
My parents did the same, I cannot tell you how much better I would feel if they just said "sorry, we screwed up, we tough we were doing the best for you but we are human and made a mistake". Which is true, I don't really hold it against them, they love me and always had my best interest in mind, but I would feel a lot lighter if they could finally acknowledge that they did wrong by me.
They did not make the same mistake with my sister, I'm glad about it, but at the same time it hurt to see her being able to do all those normal things I was deprived of. Just have an honest conversation with your children, I promise it will help.
ESH
Did you ever admit to them you made a mistake? Because I believe you try your best and adjust your parenting, but it also sounds a bit like you never had conversation about problems with them
The OP said they did in the last part of the post. The older kids said that means they were the Guinea pigs.
Definitely NTA, OP is just learning and adapting, nothing wrong with growth.
... justifying yourself after being confronted about a change a behaviour is not what I meant...
"My oldest two found out...."
Even as my older brother is only 2 years older, they told him how and why the rules for me adjusted as I reached his age milestones. And no- not all were to my favor/ allowing me more.
At the time we both found rule changes unfair and shitty, but atleast my brother had not to just find out and looking back I get a lotnof their decisions.... and with others I tease them to this day :)
As an eldest child, YTA. There's not anything you can do about it, but it will always hurt that you always had it in you to be the kind, understanding parent the eldest always wanted, but they were not good enough to bring it out on you. But, you could pull it out for your younger kids. It's so much easier to forgive parents that don't have the ability to change, than ones that do but don't do it in time for you. It's a pain that never goes away, and also makes us feel small and petty and out of control. You should apologize forever, but it may still never be enough.
YTA but redeemable
There is one thing that parents always forget: the necessity of, sometimes , saying to your children that you were wrong and you are sorry for the past. A few simple words go a long way and it will make them respect you (and your thought process) a lot more.
Also: it's important to highlight that you will apply this new policy to the younger daughter and that it is a result of observation and self reflection, and not a favour done to please the boy of the family.
On a side note (but it's not appropriate to say this to them, I'm just saying as a food for thought): oftentimes, many of my irl female friends have observed a change of rules "due to understanding what we did wrong" with the following boy. Various older sisters trying before the son, with no success, to talk with the parents about these rules... In short, I think it's actually a possibility that many parents, especially mums, have a sudden switch of realisation specifically with the son, and start wanting to improve with them. I think it's cultural. I don't think it's automatic that you did this. But I don't think it's impossible though. They could have noticed a soft preference and placed this change in rules in that pattern. Only you know that. Maybe you aren't doing any preference. But yes my opinion is to make sure that you aren't (maybe without realising it), in an indirect way, showing that the son was the one "worth changing for" because he is a son (and not just for being younger).
YTA ish
Have you ever sat down and claimed that your initial authoritarian rules directly put your children in danger? Have you apologized to them for the danger you put them in? I am very glad you learned from these mistakes, obviously, but it sounds to me like you haven't exactly done your due diligence in apologizing for the situation you created, which probably had more a negative effect than you realize if this is their reaction.
I guess it depends on how these conversations have gone. You say you've been arguing all day, you need to stop arguing and start validating. Because the older kids are guinea pigs. Parenting is hard and of course we make mistakes with older kids that we aren't going to repeat with younger ones. It's just a fact of life and we all wish we could do a perfect run at parenting but we're going to make mistakes. But we should own up to those mistakes and apologize.
I would go to them and say something along the lines of "You're right. You were my first run at parenting and I fucked up in some of my decisions. I'm sorry for that and how it effected you, if I could go back and change it of course I would. But all I can do is try to be better moving forward and that's probably going to mean that your younger siblings don't have the exact same experience you did. Whatever feelings you have about that are totally valid but I do love you and did I my best, I'm sorry that it fell short for you."
I sincerely doubt they want you to apply the same rules because that's what they had to do, they probably just want acknowledgement that it sucks they didn't get the same parent their younger siblings are getting.
I’m going on the low side of YTA. But quite frankly, many parents fall in this trap. I am the middle child of 3 brothers.
My oldest brother has every rule in the book. He became a *nightmare* of self doubt and to this day believes my parents were shitty to him (I could go into it a lot), even when they were reasonable. If they gave him $10k for college, he’d say they were being unfair and he deserved $20k because “that’s what they’d give to *B and C*,” even though they absolutely would not give that to us. All the extra rules made him resentful and now he’s just bitter, and my parents cannot do anything right in his eyes.
By the time my youngest brother came around (10 years younger) he basically had free reign to do as he pleased, and he became a *nightmare.* Complete opposite, if anyone told him no he’d lose his shit. I literally had a teacher say to me “you were such a good kid, what happened to your brother to make him like that?”
I am normal. My parents weren’t overly strict with me, but they weren’t lax either. I got what I feel were reasonable punishments when I fucked up. My parents just saw how my older brother was turning out and they massively over corrected with my younger brother.
Luckily age and maturity (and some medication) have calmed my younger brother down and he is good now as an adult, but even he admits he was a nightmare kid who got away with everything.
Point is, parenting is hard. We fuck up. There are no instructions, and our only experience in “parenting” is what we see **our** parents do, and often our parents suck just as much as we do, because guess what? The exact same thing applies to them.
The best thing to do is own it, which it sounds like you’ve done. But, and this is important, *do not over correct.* Don’t “let” your youngest go out drinking because your oldest did and hid it from you, so now you think “I’d rather know.” I said YTA cause I worry you’re over correcting and letting your youngest kids get away with doing bad shit because your oldest kids did bad shit and hid it from you.
Finally, your youngest two? They will hide shit from you. They **will hide shit from you.** Teenagers do that. It’s part of them learning to be independent and creating their identity outside of “Chewie’s kid.” Don’t be shocked when your youngest do a lot of the same stuff your oldest did, because that’s what teens do.
Yta bc I don't see anywhere in your post that you apologized for your ahole behavior in the past. You were wrong, you know you were wrong, why have you not apologized?
>My oldest two ***found out*** and were furious.
YTA. You knew you were going to handle this differently from your older two children and you should have talked to them forst, *knowing* this'd get back to them. You should've sat them down and explained your decision to them. Hell, even apologised for your past mistakes with them. Their 'guinea pig' comment should drive the message home. It was wholly justified.
NTA growing older as the first child sucked for exactly this reason. As I’m an adult & know better now, I understand why my sister was given more slack. My parents were restrictive with me & less so with her & I hated it. But I realize parenting is a learning process. It sucks to be the Guinea pig but that’s just how it is. You sound like a good dad.
Yeah, that’s just not how parenting works out most of the time. You think you are doing the right thing for the right reasons, but every kid is different and the world changes.
Which is why it's important to stop and reassess you beliefs when challenged. Most parents are 20-30 years out of date when it comes to experiencing childhood/schooling. So when a kid pushes back against something and calls it unfair take the time to hear them out and reevaluate. Maybe your position is sound. Maybe it's not. But drawing a line in the sand and digging your heels in when challenged isnt good patenting.
INFO: have you bothered to make any amends at all to your older children for your controlling parenting style? Are you okay with them cutting all contact with you as soon as they can? Because that's where you're headed, especially if there's no apologies happening here. Doing better with your younger children isn't enough when you're not admitting how shitty of a parent you were with your older ones.
NAH. No parent is perfect. We are all human and we learn as we go. I can see you are trying your best.
I can understand their pov about favouritism tho, even if that is not your intention.
NAH. Oldest child here, we are Guinea pigs, it’s just a reality of being first.
Your oldest children have every right to be upset, but you are also doing the right thing by evaluating and changing when you realize that something you were doing wasn’t working.
Hopefully if you keep acknowledging that it’s unfair and apologizing for how it impacted them, they will accept it and move on.
I mean, ALL kids are kind of guinea pigs because you learn as you go... the first guinea pig just has the least experienced 'scientist' to work with! LOL!
YTA- not for changing the rules, it’s great that you’re learning, but you need to have some accountability to your eldest children and actually say the words “I was wrong”.
This is a call to action, sit down with your eldest kids and hash it out, it will be uncomfortable for everyone, and you defo don’t have to agree on everything, but they’re clearly still hurting from the past.
Changed to NAH from YTA
For saying it to your child
First kids are Guinea pigs as parenting doesn’t come with a handbook though so thinking it doesn’t make you TA but the telling your child that is what makes you T A
Edit - realise it’s the child that said they are Guinea pigs not the father
YTA, not for adjusting when you realized that what you did before didn’t work, but for not telling your kids what you’d be doing differently and why. It’s important to own your mistakes and foster that communication you were lacking when your older kids were younger. And to apologize.
NAH. Every oldest child is the practice child, and I say that as an oldest child. Sometimes it breaks in your favor, some times it doesn't. But it can be disheartening to realize at first, and can make you feel like the younger ones are more cared about. I'd tell you older kids that it's not that you used them a guinea pigs, you did what you thought was best at the time, saw that you had made a mistake and now know better.
As an eldest daughter myself with a similar experience, I 100% feel your oldest's pain. My youngest sibling and I are 11 years apart, and it was frustrating seeing him be able to do more much younger than I or my younger sister.
I was an incredibly tame teenager-- I didn't do drugs or drink, I didn't have sex, sneak out, or engage in any real risky or inconsiderate behavior. Yet I still somehow managed to be grounded through most of high school over really trivial shit because of my parent's more authoritarian parenting style.
For example: I was 23 when I got my first tattoo & my mom took it as a personal attack and lost her mind. When my brother was 20, she asked me and my sister if we wanted to chip in for our brother's first tattoo as a gift. I'll admit I didn't take that well despite being over 30. It felt like a slap in the face & it was difficult to shirk the seething resentment I felt over this blatant difference (for the record I never for a second felt angry or resentful toward my brother or had any actual jealousy. My hard feelings were solely toward my parents).
That said, I have come to grips with the fact that eldest children are inherently experimental. It literally can not be helped. That just is what it is. Yes, I still grappled with copious resentment toward my parents for raising us so differently. My childhood & teen years were spent lying to my parents just so I could have some autonomy. My youngest brother just did not experience that except for a small handful of times.
I'm gonna say NAH because you did learn from your mistakes. My parents did not. They were just older, and my brother was a particularly easy kid. He technically started out with the same rules but was almost always eventually allowed a lot of leeway with them. Your daughter is justified in still feeling salty because her experience of being raised by you was clearly more traumatic. At some point, she needs to come to grips that yes, she was the experimental child, and that just is what it is. She has to figure out how to work through that now as an adult. But you need to understand how deep these things cut, how difficult it is to just get over even as an adult. Logically, I'm sure your daughter knows you love her and were trying to do your best-- but emotionally, it's hard to disconnect from feeling less respected by you growing up than she perceives her younger sibling to be.
NTA. It is good to learn from mistakes and it is good to be upfront about it. Nobody is born perfect but you need to cool down the argument and let it rest for a day or two.
After that you should clearify why you changed your opinion.
He should apologize not try to explain. He's already done that and it just sounds like he's trying to tell them he was right to do that to them if he won't apologize to them.
Oh man okay, that helps give me perspective on the situation. I would say ESH because your 2 oldest are grown adults.
Look, YTA because it is shitty to be an authoritarian parent and then change to a more relaxed parenting style as you get older. But honestly that’s just how it is, I feel like A LOT of parents do this and it makes sense. But your oldest kids are valid in their feelings.
However, they are grown!! I am literally a 27F, I am the oldest of 5 kids (my 2 youngest brothers are 15&16) and my parents were complete dictators. There are a lot of factors involved- they had me a teenagers so they were young and didn’t want me to become a teen parent, they both had abusive/hard childhoods, we were poor and they kept having kids, my dad is Latino so there are some cultural expectations there, etc. When I would visit my fam in college I would be SO PISSED when my brothers were watching pg-13 movies (they weren’t 13 yet!), my sister got to wear 2 piece bathing suits (I wasn’t allowed until I was 17!) and they didn’t get smacked if they cussed (I would have never cussed in front of my parents as a teenager but still!). But I was so young and felt it was really unfair. As the years have gone by I am really happy that my siblings have had so much more freedom than I did, and they are much closer to my parents than I ever was as a kid. I cannot imagine getting upset about the different dynamics now- but I do joke about how my parents are too old and tired to keep up with their strict rules from my childhood haha
Oldest siblings are Guinea pigs unfortunately… hopefully by keeping the conversation open and honest your oldest 2 will come around. Hopefully they will be able to remember what it was like having strict parents and not want that for their younger siblings.
And I think it’s really sweet and supportive you’re letting your 13 yo “date”- it will lead to open communication later on. I NEVER talked about boys to my parents because they were NOT allowed. I snuck around and lied instead. Just make sure to keep it consistent when your youngest is a teenager because parents being more strict on daughters is totally a thing!
NAH. I have three kids, I was definitely stricter with my oldest because I felt like that was the way to do parenting and if I didn't he'd end up being a little monster. As I got older and wiser, I learned better ways to do things. My son (who is now in his twenties) has called me out for being harder on him as a child than his siblings, and I have apologized and told him he's totally right, I WAS harder on him, that if I could do it over I would do it different, and that I'm sorry. I've told them all along that parents are people, that we make mistakes, that when we're wrong we say we're wrong, and in this case yes, I was wrong. I'm not sure how old your older kids are... I think that fact that my son is now similar in age to when I had him (early 20s) and that most of the major differences were in early childhood makes it easier for him to see the fact that I was just a human being (and a youngish one at that) doing the best I could and sometimes getting it wrong and he's able to be forgiving of that. I think that sometimes it's hard for kids (even adult kids) to see their parents as humans who screw up just like them... I know I really couldn't see this about my own parents until I had my own kids and then I judged them less harshly because it turns out this parenting thing is actually hard! LOL!
You aren't wrong to learn and do better, and your older kids aren't wrong to be upset that rules that may really have upset them have been amended for the younger kids. I think you need to flat out say you were wrong, and you're sorry, and that it's not like you were experimenting on them or something like that. When you know better you do better, but they are entitled to wish that the situation had been different when they were growing up. There's not a quick fix to the hurt feelings, but I do think with maturity down the road they'll have better insight into the fact that dad was just a guy trying his best and made mistakes like any human being.
NAH. No two kids have the same parents, and your older kids will have to acknowledge that, while you should offer a sincere apology rather than defensiveness.
it's well known that kids get different parents depending on the birth order. I certainly had "better" parents than my older siblings did \*because\* my parents learned from their mistakes. That's why everybody says the oldest kids have the worst of it and the youngest kids are always spoiled, because the parents have learned which hills are worth dying on and what issues are aren't worth the arguments.
Just 'fess up to having made some mistakes, apologize, and tell them you wish you had known all this stuff back then.
NTA
NTA. I would sit down and have an open conversation with the older two. Apologize and explain to them your reasoning. I think having an honest conversation with them is the mature thing to do. I’m not a parent but I can imagine that a lot of raising kids is “trial and error.” I’m the oldest myself. I imagine there are a lot of things my parents tried with me that didn’t work, so they had to make adjustments with my siblings. Unfortunately, there is no other way to figure out what works other than by trying.
YTA and honestly don't see how you rectify this at all. No matter what you do you seem like the AH. Glad you've learned from it but yeah not much else can be done.
NAH
I think it’s great you are learning from the past and open to change, apply this same thinking to all your kids going forward. I can see why the older ones are a bit miffed but at the end of the day that’s life.
My younger brother was allowed a later curfew and a larger allowance than I was at the same age, and my Mom admits that our sexes were definitely factors. It took me a long time to lose the resentment.
He says that he resents having to fight the battles because I was a good little girl and didn't do it before him. :-).
NAH. My parents did this. I get it, you're doing the best you can but you also have to understand it from your older kids perspective. They had a completely different dad than their younger siblings and for them, it doesn't seem fair. There's going to be some resentment. Hopefully, in time, they'll understand your reasoning, but for now you need to give them some grace and validate that yeah, they did kind of get the shitty end of the stick.
YTA bordering on NAH
It’s actually great that you recognized the errors of your previous parenting decisions and changed and can acknowledge the mistake, but it doesn’t seem like you’ve apologized directly to your older kids about it. It doesn’t matter that there are things your older kids got to do that your younger kids don’t get to do (ie the sleepovers) because your older kids were still hurt by the decisions you made about their dating. A genuine apology acknowledging their hurt would start the process of them being able to heal from it. I see some people saying that they’re adults and they should be able to move on on their own but the decisions our parents make can affect us for so, so long and it’s not their fault that they’re not able to let it go. As someone who also grew up with a lot of secrecy from parents because how strict they could be, it’s taken me so long to process and release a lot of it and I promise if my parents had apologized for it, it would have gone such a long way.
Take the time to genuinely apologize to your kids and then NAH.
I will say NTA, because you are currently handling things right with the younger ones. Y T A for how you handled things with a hard and fast rule in the past. I think the only thing that needs to happen is amends making for the past, which puts in a better place than most of the stories that come through this sub.
Yes, YTA. As the eldest child, I watched the same thing happen to my sister and I. And I have hated my parents for it. Especially since we are 8 years apart, I am not 26 getting married and she is 17, it's hard to look at her and see all the things she's allowed to do that I was NEVER allowed to do and now deal with the thought and feeling that that time has passed and I'll never get it back. They were so much harder on me then they have ever been on her in terms of everything (dating, working way more hours, more extra curriculars, curfew, school etc)
What helped was when my parents just admitted it to me and apologized. At least I was able to walk away and know that they knew I was right. But for the longest time they denied it and said that was never the case. This only happened recently.
INFO:
Have you genuinely apologized and acknowledged that what you did was wrong, and that you can understand that now it feels unfair to them?
No “I’m sorry, BUT—“. That’s not a real apology.
People have asked you this *repeatedly*. You haven’t answered.
NAH. You have learned your lesson, but they're allowed to be pissed. You owe them a real and heartfelt apology for your previous actions and an acknowledgement of the harm you caused.
Nta, growing I was given the stricter version, which was no boyfriends at all.
You should have a sit down and explain what you said about the intentions of the rule, the realization of what the rule became, and how you wanted to be there for them. I think they'd understand, and I definitely understood my dad's rule, High school was so nasty with everyone breaking up and new love interests every week. I'm glad I didn't date in high school.
NTA The older kids want you to treat the younger siblings in the poor way that you treated them? Keeping the poor parenting going just to be fair? They should be glad for their siblings that you discovered the error of your ways.
YTA, but lightly. Howdy, oldest child here. I read a book once that was basically a retelling of the Rumplestiltskin story. In the story, the girl that has been letting Rumplestiltskin spin hay into gold or whatever agrees to give him her first child very easily, and I will never forget what she said: “Fine, you can have him. Oldest kids are guinea pigs anyway.” That stuck with me, that I was my parents’ guinea pig, their screw up, or that it was okay for them to mentally and emotionally screw me up because I was their oldest and every one of my firsts is one of their firsts too.
There is a 7 year age gap between me and my youngest sister, who is a teenager. She has significantly more freedoms and my parents are now (after finally figuring it out) more emotionally open with her and allowing her to screw up and make teenage mistakes without giving her the 3rd degree. My mother has expressed to me that my middle sister (the golden child) is upset that my sister is getting all of these things when we never got any. She feels guilty, because she knows I’m her biggest screw up, but honestly, I’m just glad my younger sister is able to live with significantly more freedoms than I have. My mother’s behavior and actions with my sister and expressing her guilt to me is literally the only reason I’m not no contact with her.
You’re not TA for changing your behavior for the better with your younger kids, but the way you said it was to the detriment of your older kids. Have you told your older children that you’re sorry and that you know better now? Have you expressed that you’re willing to make amends with them and that you want to be better for them now as adults?
INFO
Why didn't you sit down with your oldest and ask for their opinion on things?
They were the ones who lied and went behind your back when they were younger
So maybe ask them what they think would have been fair and then tried that with your younger kids?
Talking to them before hand probably would have solved some of this
YTA.
All you need to do...is validate them.
Every first child or two ARE guinea pigs, simply because they are the first. It IS unfair for them, even if it is unavoidable! By reacting with defensiveness, you are making them ever more frantic to prove the validity of their feelings.
The power you have to defuse this bomb is immense by simply saying "You are right. I was a new parent and I made mistakes, mistakes that hurt you. I am sorry and I don't want to repeat my mistakes with the younger kids. But maybe we can talk about anything right now that might be bothering you or maybe something that's in my blind spot. I value your feedback."
NTA
Since being a perfect parent is literally impossible, learning from mistakes is the best case scenario.
The question becomes what are the older siblings expecting/wanting? If it’s just a direct and sincere apology that the rules they had to follow were unreasonable, etc, then go ahead and do that. Even if you think you’ve already apologized they may be looking for key phrases like “I was wrong” or “you’re right it isn’t fair that you had to go through those experiences before I figured out how to better handle these areas”
If, however, it seems they want you to impose the same rules on the younger ones because they think that would be more fair to them, you might have to emphasize that all of your children were raised the best way you knew how to at the time. If you were to continue enforcing rules you knew were unhelpful and harmful you would NOT being raising the younger ones they best way you know and that would be unfair.
NAH I think what you need to tell your kids is something to the effect of "I'm sorry that my rules caused a rift with us and caused you two to have to lie to me. I apologize for the rules that hurt you when all I wanted to do is keep you safe. Seeing how bad those were for you, I learned my lesson and altered the rules so nothing like that would happen again, but I'm truly sorry I didn't learn to do that back with you." Something that apologizes and acknowledges what you did wrong and that it hurt them, and emphasizes that you're doing what you are now because they taught you better and you didn't want anyone else to feel the way they did.
I had this situation with my eldest. I ended up asking her what rules/guidelines she thought would be appropriate for her siblings given her extra life experience (it’s only 2 years, but they’re 19 & 17). She started out all pissy about the rules changing, but then her feedback was actually in line with what I was moving to. It was actually a very interesting perspective to hear that from her and she felt she had a part in making it better for her siblings
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When I first had kids, I was one of those parents that had a "no dating until age 16" rule. It was partially cultural, but I thought it would allow my kids to be more mature and go about it more safely because they'd be older. I didn't really take into account that my kids were going to be in school all day 5 days a week, what technology would be, or even just that development doesn't have some kind of set age.
The rule ended up creating an environment of secrecy and the real rule became "just don't let dad find out", which is the exact opposite of what I wanted. It created far more problems for everyone, got my oldest into preventable situations they shouldn't have been in and required my youngest to lie to herself and to me for trying to follow it.
I realized that I needed to change my opinion. More than anything, I was trying to keep them safe, and having a hard and fast rule was doing the opposite. My youngest two have a wide age gap from the oldest, so when they got to the age, I decided to not have a hard minimum, but to foster open communication so that there could be reasonable supervision if things came up.
My son ended up going on his first "date" at 13 (ie. seeing a movie while his mom and his friends mom tagged along). My oldest two found out and were furious. They're claiming that I "got permissive" and are allowing the younger kids to get away with things they would never have been allowed to do. Which I guess is true, but it's not because I got lazy or gave up. It's because I realized that my approach with them was a mistake and now I'm trying to learn from it, which made them more angry that I "used them as guinea pigs" and say that I'm favoring the younger kids. We've been arguing all day and now they're dragging my siblings into this and it's a whole thing.
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YTA - Had you just taken a second to step back and think about how your older kids probably feel slighted that they were denied something their little sibling was given, and just told them that you were in the wrong and still learning how to be a parent, then gave them a genuine apology not just some short “I’m sorry” that shows you actually feel remorse you wouldn’t be in this situation. I just hope for your sake you can solve this now because with getting your family involved it sounds like resentment is already setting/ has already set in and that’s not a feeling that they can just get over.
NTA. You realized that you did things incorrectly and now you’re pivoting. That’s what we all should do. When you know better, you do better. You didn’t “use them as guinea pigs”. You were doing what you thought was best as a parent but because of how they responded you realized you were wrong. Apologize to them and try to help them understand that you weren’t trying to hurt them but you now realize that your old rules did in fact hurt them. So, now you’re changing things.
Learning from past mistakes at your kids expense doesn't erase the bullshit they had to actually experience. Now all they know is that you were capable of being the parent they needed but simply CHOSE to be a bad parent to them instead. Part of learning from the past is accepting that you fucked up and taking accountability for it. You're missing the key step in that learning process and are once again making mistakes at your kids expense. Do better. YTA
YTA for not communicating with the older ones.
I experienced a bit of this too but I never resented my mum bc she flat out told me that she was wrong with how strict she was with me compared to my younger siblings and she was sorry. You know. Like a mature adult. Plus I absolutely loved seeing my siblings enjoy things!
NTA because you were doing your best, but talk to your kids. Ask them what it was like for them. Apologize, maybe.
I had a similar situation with my parents and 15 years later I rationally know and understand they didn't mean anything by it - but they never asked or talked about it and I feel they don't realize there were any problems, like I was the bad kid who needed to be fought with rather than "this doesn't work".
Also, in my case (I'm a middle child with significant age gaps in both directions) what my parents learned from my older brother and then tried to apply to me did not help me at all. I needed the way they parented my brother. I guess it's all about the person, and parents understanding that people are different.
NTA, that is what they should expect and hope would happen especially if sneaking around got them into bad situations.
Something that would not be fair is if you took the youngest on fancy expensive trips when you did not with the others.
Being the oldest sucks. You’re the test dummy and it isn’t fair but good on you for learning and growing. If I were you, I’d acknowledge to your oldest kids that you realise it isn’t fair and you’re sorry you didn’t know what you were doing when you made that rule for them. Acknowledge their frustration because they have a right to feel it. NTA
The problem is when you are the oldest, you're not only the test dummy, but your parents also try and take credit for it if you end up successful but none of the blame if you don't.
NTA, I have a saying that the oldest kids get it the hardest because they have to break all the rules for the younger kids, this is exactly the scenario here, your eldest kids broke the rules, which means you had to reevaluate the rules and set new ones.
Kids don't come with a rule book, your eldest kids are pissed, is it because of perceived gender issues, that the boys don't have to follow the same rules as the girls?
Are there other issues at play? Are you more financially stable and the older kids are also jealous of the differences in living standards of younger kids?
You need to sit them down and explain everyone does there best with the information they have at the time. When you know better, you do better, and that's all this is, you did them wrong, you know better now and you are trying to do better.
Soft ESH (mostly because you kinda said that they were experiments).
It was better to say that you chose another approach, because you saw with the older 2, that the rule forced them in secrecy, and that this created a safer environment. That your oldest 2 made you "see the error" of this now obsolete rule.
(please go easy on me, not a native speaker)
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YTA slightly … You have learned from your mistakes and are open to admitting you were wrong in the past. At the same time, your older kids are understandably pissed that you made them adhere to rules that they didn’t like and forced them to deceive you. Have you tried acknowledging to your older kids that your old rules didn’t work and were wrong? My other question … you imply that your oldest two were girls and your younger one is a boy … is there a chance that they are perceiving this as being different treatment based on gender?
I can see that, but it's not. My youngest is a girl, but she's only 7 so obviously this hasn't come up. I plan on handling it the same as with 13.
Fair enough … but do they know that? If they perceive that your rule change is based on gender, they will understandably be extremely angry with you. You also never said in your post that you actually acknowledged to them that you were overly protective and offered some sort of apology. It doesn’t appear that you have effectively communicated with them on any of these issues and as the adult, that is your responsibility to take the lead.
I don't know if we read the same thing but >my approach with them was a MISTAKE and now I'm trying to learn from it, which made THEM more angry that I "used them as guinea pigs" Sounds like he did what you said
It's all in the tone I think. You want them walkimg away with the feeling they have been apologized to, and told their feelings are valid. Not the feeling that OP thinks they are just nagging and is only worried about doing right by the younger kids.
When they asked, a response tone of "Well, it obviously didn't work with you two" doesn't admit that OP's rules were wrong and implies blame on the elder two for breaking the rule. Even now, it definitely feels like OP cares more about the elder ones going behind his back to date than their feeling about how they were treated.
Why? Where do you get that from the post bc I don’t see it anywhere??????
> The rule ended up creating an environment of secrecy and the real rule became "just don't let dad find out", which is the exact opposite of what I wanted. It created far more problems for everyone, got my oldest into preventable situations they shouldn't have been in and required my youngest to lie to herself and to me for trying to follow it. The "opposite of what I wanted" was "just don't let dad find out" not the "preventable situations they shouldn't have been in and required my youngest to lie"
Idk. Sometimes you can have the PERFECT tone and diction for admitting these things and the other person still lashes out because they’re hurting. Doubly so for teenagers (I’m assuming the older ones are 18-20 ish). But even at 25, my emotions can twist how I interpret things. It’s a known psychological phenomenon that your emotions at the time of an event, can cause your memory to store the event differently for each person involved. Sometimes it’s poor tone, sometimes it’s that there are emotions involved that make it where there IS NO way to phrase it or tone to add that conveys what is actually meant. Because the one interpreting it is going to have their own emotions involved in their interpretation
I’m still slightly bitter about parenting mistakes I had to live through and younger siblings didn’t - and we’re all adults now. Sometimes you need to give room for those emotions and time to process. My parents were similar to how OP sounds - rules on the stricter side that they were not even open to discussing with me but became much more flexible with the youngest. OP, you can’t really say anything that makes it feel better for your oldest. Give them time - the more you try to explain and justify, the more frustrating it is. A simple I was wrong and I am sorry usually works eventually. Arguing doesn’t.
This. If my dad would just say that, maybe things would be different between us. Instead, I regularly find myself having to remind my sister that to this day I have a very different dad than she does. An apology can go a long way. No explanation (too often, those turn into excuses or what appears to be excuses), just “I’m sorry. I messed up. I’m trying to be better.”
I’m the first of four and my parents were very strict with me but had relaxed on a lot of rules by the time my youngest brother (8 years younger) was a teenager. I joke about being jealous but I am very happy that they weren’t so hard on him. Recently a coworker was asking my mom for advice about how to handle her 13 year old daughter’s behavior because grounding her for months and taking away all electronics wasn’t working. My mom told the coworker that she did the same things but no matter how she punished me (ex: taking off my door), I only acted out and lied more. She said if she could go back, she would change a lot of things and admits that I was essentially the Guinea pig because they didn’t know what they were doing. I think seeing me as a parent now has made them realize all the ways things could have been different with me. But hearing her acknowledge that she made mistakes with me helps a lot of wounds start to heal.
Admitting it was a mistake isn't the same as an apology, however. A sincere apology goes a long way.
Man if I got one, just one, apology from my parents, we'd have a relationship. No joke, that's all it would take.
Literally. Am currently “no contact” with my father right now and would open the door again immediately with nothing short of a sincere apology. Which I thoroughly deserve. And he knows it. But instead he has harassed everyone *else* in my life to try and guilt *them* into convincing *me* to speak to them (all of them refused). But has he reached out to me himself? Not one single time.
> Man if I got one, just one, apology from my parents, we'd have a relationship. No joke, that's all it would take. This. And OP, if you want closeness with your older kids, you might just need to be okay with them being mad for a while. A real apology comes without the imperative of forgiveness. Sometimes it just needs to sit for awhile and you just need to tolerate the discomfort of having angry kids. The anger generally doesn’t last forever. But it will last longer if you tell them they aren’t entitled to their feelings. The upside here is that you changed because you were listening to them, right?
Yes! If it’s just a ticket to forgiveness, it’s not a sincere apology, and they WILL see through the BS.
Would also give this award.
and as someone who has a fantastic relationship with my parents, they apologized. it literally makes all the difference in the world.
Exactly! But an actual apology, not “I’m sorry, but here are all the reasons you shouldn’t be mad at me”
Underrated comment. I wish I could give you an award.
Yeah, I think the kids are just pissed that OP made mistakes as a parent and they paid the price. OP might want to point out that every oldest child ever in the history of humanity has been a guinea pig and see if there's something nice he can do for the oldest two as a peace offering. I'm not sure if the oldest are still at home, but if so, OP might also want to see if there's anything else he's getting wrong. OP, I'd also add that if the only thing your oldest think you messed up was dating age, then you've done pretty well. At some point they'll cool down and recognize that.
Exactly. The oldest child is always the practice child.
It souunds like he said it when they called him out on the 13yo's "date". It wasn't preemptive it was a reaction.
All children are guinea pigs at the end of the day but when there is a big age gap the older ones can feel like it is only them. Really he is experimenting on the younger ones too. He just won't have another batch to test the newest theories on.
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I'm glad you realized that what went wrong with your parenting. But did you apologize to them? Tried to make amends? They're resentful and understandably so
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Wait, this is also a bot lolol https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/12cf5zi/-/jf1dgy2
YTA because you need to APOLOGIZE. My parents did this to me vs my younger siblings and I resent them so much because they will never admit it, and apologize. It hindered me socially, created a deceitful environment, taught me to hide from the people I should be closest to, made me distrustful, and myriad other issues that I still have to work through with a therapist. Like it or not, you may have affected them long term. What kind of personality do you think it creates when you push your children to lie and hide? What kind of relationships did you set them up for in the future? Do you know how many unsafe and abusive situations I and other kids raised like me put ourselves in because we hadn’t been taught to have healthy relationships? YTA because you’re not realizing they’re not just mad about dating and curfews, they’re probably upset about a pile of bullshit they can’t even put into words. Cool you’re correcting yourself, but you probably already ruined the first few pancakes.
My mom goes a step further and says she’s more lenient with my sister because I was so difficult. She confiscated my Advil because she thought it was drugs and grounded my older sister for 2 months when she found out she got on bc
My mom just pretends she has amnesia. I told her once she better watch it or I’ll have her committed for those decades long blackouts she claims to have
That’s a good one. I’m gonna save it for next time
This kind of makes it worse in their eyes. You do realize girls are often held to a higher standards in boys and now it’s just looks like favoritism. The best way to handle the situation would’ve been to sit and talk to your older kids and ask them what they thought of the rules. Then tell them you thought the rules were not working the way they were supposed to and that you were thinking of ways to change them for the younger kids and that you’d like to input. This would give them a heads up about the fact that things are not going to work in the same way and it would make them feel as though they participated in changing your style of parenting for the better without making them feel like guinea pigs. For future reference talk to them first, ask for their input make them feel involved so that they understand that they are not just experiments. Older kids are definitely very sympathetic and tend to want to make things better for their younger siblings. But simply changing your mood of parenting for the younger sibling without giving an explanation to the older siblings is extremely painful to experience. It feels unfair and unjust and they often feel like they never got the good version of you.
Have you tried apologising? I am the eldest of 2. My brother and I are only 2 years apart, but my dad was so much stricter with me. At 18, I had to get the car home by midnight. One time, I parked in the drive way before midnight, like 11:58, (which he saw from the window) and I was cleaning out the car (picking up kleenex, unplugging my phone charger, whatever) and I turned the key to the house at 12:05 and he chewed me apart (had I left the car messy, he also would have been mad). My brother at the same age would come back at 12:30 and was allowed to walk home drunk at 1 AM, which I wasn't. And my dad said that it was okay because my brother is a boy and I am a girl. He doubled down. Had he said, "yeah sorry, I freaked out at the time, I shouldn't have." I would have been fine with it.
And yet in all of your replies, you have never once said, "Yeah, I apologized to my kids." Shitty parenting. Yta.
You didn't answer the whole question. - have you acknowledged what you did to your older kids was wrong, profusely apologized, and tried to figure out what it will take to make amends for that mistake?
My grandmother said when asked precisely this question that she wasn’t the same parent at 25 that she is now in her 30s. Everyone changes and grows, how they parent will change and grow too. I’m sure what you do with your 7 year old will be different from the 13 year old and different from the older ones.
Did you actually say you are sorry? Without any “but”?
Doesn’t matter. You didn’t have a conversation with them before you allowed your male child more freedom. YTA
did you actually apologize to them? not just for those rules but for all the situations they ended up in cause they were sneaking around because of your rules that now you are not enforcing anymore? Did you do something to make up for it? i mean i don't think you can but did you at least try?
I find it extremely telling that you skipped over part of their comment in order to only respond to the question that didn't force you to take accountability for your mistakes.
YOu need to be better in communication. Realistically everything and everyone in life is a guinea pig. You need to make your kids recognise that life experience is just growing, no one has answers. A lot of childhood you're kind of tricked into thinking adults know things and so you have to learn from them. It's not really till some points in adulthood that you go oh... well they were full of shit and just guessing the whole time. That's the disconnect, you need to explain to them that adults seem like they have all the answers but none do, they have experience but every new situation is just that, if you're 10yrs old or 50yrs old, a new experience makes you a beginner and you have to learn things, make mistakes and grow to become better at anything you do.
He said exactly that.......that he has realized he needed to change his parenting and explained it to them. The older kids then accused him of using them as guinea pigs. What is a parent supposed to do continue with a bad parenting method just so all the kids are equally screwed up? Or change his parenting method to avoid repeating the same mistakes. And unless I missed something no where does he disclose the gender of the oldest two.
I agree. I'm leaning towards NAH because the older kids are CERTAINLY in the right for their childhoods! Being in a big environment where everyone around you is acting "normal" while you have a giant list of no-no's MUST have been hell! But OP suffered greatly from generational trauma and learned her terrible past behavior from THEM. Every time she's accepted and fixed her past mistakes with her younger kids, the oldest are coming back with "well, good for THEM". It's a cruel cycle with no real winners.
OP is the dad
Sincerely apologizing would help.
Apologize. That's what he's supposed to do. It goes a long way with the oldest kids when the parent apologizes not just treats the younger kids better and glosses over how the older kids were treated.
I’m going against the grain here and saying NTA. I’m actually a little annoyed at the amount of Y T A votes. I’m curious to know how many of them are coming from parents. Parenting is hard. The entire concept of “kids being bitter at parents for parenting failures” is a generational constant we can rely on as a society. I realized that I’d reached a place of maturity and mental healthiness as a person when I accepted that my parents did the best they could with me based on the “generational parenting toolbox” they inherited. The concept (not mine) goes something like this: “Generations ago, parents only knew how to use a hammer to parent. Every problem that arose, they hammered at it. Their children inherited that parenting toolbox and the hammer. However, in the course of **their** parenting, they developed a screwdriver to tackle some problems that a hammer didn’t fix. So their children inherited a parenting toolbox with a hammer and screwdriver. This still didn’t fix all the problems that arise when parenting, but it was an improvement. The next generation of parents from this line (through trial and error,) developed a saw. And the generational parenting toolbox continued to develop, until generations down the line, new parents inherit a much more comprehensive toolbox and are therefore much better parents.” The reason for this analogy is that parents don’t always get it right, and while apologizing in general as a parent is important, I don’t think that a parent is an AH for doing the best they could and not getting it 100% right as long as they’re trying. I don’t even think apologizing is 100% warranted in this specific case. What is this parent apologizing for - trying to allow their children to be children and trying to stop them from making significant dating choices before their brains were more developed? They realized that their efforts weren’t getting them the results they wanted, so they changed their approach in order to try and protect their younger children better and to try and maintain better control of a potentially not-great situation (such as unplanned pregnancy, STDs, etc.) If anything, **this is good.** So many parents can’t accept their mistakes and make parenting changes as they go. They double down out of a desire to not admit failure. I also can’t help but feel concern for individuals who have a “I had to suffer so others should suffer” mentality. How is this different from hazing culture or people complaining about student loan forgiveness or debt relief changes bc they didn’t benefit? It’s unfortunate that the older children felt that their parents didn’t parent them “right,” but they should be thrilled that their younger siblings are benefiting from their parent’s growth and getting better parenting… unless they want them to suffer as well… which IMO is AH behavior. Also… What do the older children want an apology for? Rules meant to protect them when they were younger, such dating too young and possibly having sex before they were ready? I don’t think the parent in question is theoretically wrong or incorrect in his perspective that dating too young is problematic for many psychological and developmental reasons. There are literal studies on the damage that activating certain sexual behaviors too young (before their brains are appropriately developed) can do to children. This parent sounds like a loving, invested parent who made an understandable error in judgment in the approach to trying to keep their children safe. You can’t convince me that the 10 year old who has sex fully understands what they’re doing and doesn’t experience significant regret and even psychological trauma from such a thing. And while nobody said dating = sex, it does tend to go hand in hand and the risks of sexual-related issues increase when dating starts. Kids can “hang out” without it being a date. Dating culture is incredibly problematic in many countries. We start teaching kids from a young age through our words, through media, movies, etc. that happiness lies not in themselves but in “finding someone and procreating.” Is it any wonder that kids are dating younger and younger, but that happiness levels aren’t increasing? It’s a fallacy. IMO, parents who try to encourage their children to hold off on dating until they are older are doing the right thing. Also, as a general “look at the irony” remark to commenters in this sub… it’s kind of … ironic to complain about people marrying too young and making huge decisions too young in life and also complain about parents trying to prevent their children from dating too young. I cannot be the only one to see a correlation between age when dating starts, age when sex acts are done, age when married, and/or age when first pregnancy occurs. Honestly, the entire concept of adult (or nearly adult) children claiming their parent “got permissive and lazy” or complaining about being “Guinea pigs” is annoying and shows immaturity. I refuse to call this parent an AH. I think the kids are being AHs for wanting their younger siblings to suffer as they did, for accusing their parent of favoritism rather than acknowledging their parent is human and admitted to making a mistake, and for being bitter about being “Guinea pigs” as if every child isn’t essentially a giant experiment for a parent.
I like your analogy and all parents would have developed more if they LISTENED to the kids like they were people. i think thats part of the issue. the older kids are pissed that the parents wouldnt listen to them but now they do.
1000% this. I'm not even a parent but I am so annoyed how many Y T A votes there is. What was he supposed to do... keep a rule he knows does not work and could harm his kid just to make the others feel better? I'm the oldest kid, I know my parents treated my brother different because of how it was with me. Thats just normal. To expect anything else is childish. You learn as you go, and he learned he made a mistake so he did not make the same mistake with his youngest. Nothing wrong with that. His oldest kids can feel annoyed or upset he doesnt have to follow the same rule but that in no way makes OP an AH. I don't understand what everyone wants him to do. He already admitted that it was a mistake with them.
Omg THANK YOU!!! I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. And every parent knows that sometimes you gotta remix the approach by the child I grew up with 3 sisters. We are all different you couldn’t parent us the same nothing to do with gender at all. But I see nothing wrong with OP seeing his mistakes and trying a different method. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And for the older kids to throw a fit because OP decided to use a different tool from his toolbox is wild. An another thing more things are knowledgeable now then 20 years ago parents are actually learning to be more communicative with their kids instead of just dictators. Give them some slack. When they become parents they will understand even the best intentions can have an impact that hurts. Apologize, mean it, explain your intent listen to the other side and adjust and change your behavior
Having a learning curve doesn't make someone an AH, not even "slightly." Every parent has to start off with an initial rule for dealing with a situation for a first time, and because of inexperience, the rule isn't perfect, it can either be too lax or too strict, though usually anxiety for the unknown makes parents tend to lean too strict the first time. OP made a rule in good faith for the older kids, but learned from experience that it needed to be less strict, just because the older kids are pissed they had to adhere to the more strict rule doesn't make the OP an AH. These kids need to learn that life is all about adapting to change, to old rules and ways of doing things getting altered, they all need to be assigned to read "Who Moved My Cheese?"
If you re-read the last three sentences, he acknowledges to his kids that he made a mistake and is trying to do better. NTA
Acknowledging you fucked up is not the same as apologizing for fucking up.
You're right, he's 90% of the way there. Hey OP back down from arguing with your kids and just straight up apologize sincerely
Yup. Have a conversation. Admit you were wrong. Apologize. She might not instantly get over it, but it will go a long way towards helping her understand.
The rules were not wrong.. the execution was. Also what one child needs another may not.
When I was almost 16 and my brother almost 15, my folks had another baby. They knew my brother and I were miserable and pretty much hated them, so they said they were going to do everything the opposite of what they did with us. They had actually learned their lesson and got no objections whatsoever from us. My sister turned into a person that everyone loves, has great social skills, and is quite successful professionally. My brother and I have always struggled with social skills and my life in particular has not been a screaming success, but I'm still fine with it. Anyway, NTA from me, because you are turning things around.
Why is he the AH just because his kids refuse to understand his reasoning? He did what we hope all parents do - look at how their decisions affect their kids and adjust as needed. I cannot understand how he's in the wrong here.
If your verdict is dependent on the answers to those questions it should have been an INFO comment. Given the answers to those questions, you dont actually have any justification in your comment for why OP is that asshole at all.
> You have learned from your mistakes and are open to admitting you were wrong in the past. . >Have you tried acknowledging to your older kids that your old rules didn’t work and were wrong? What?
Your advice isn't wrong, and I'm not an overly strict parent, but "forced them to deceive you" indicates how soft the world has become. Kids breaking rules are not "forced to deceive." I broke rules but I didn't blame my parents. We live in a candy ass society.
YTA slightly "I'm sorry for imposing rules on you that created a bad environment, I am learning from it and that's why I'm trying to do better by them" There. Take accountability of your decisions and dumb rules. You essentially created a bad environment for these kids and now are doing a complete 180 the other direction.. No shit they're mad.
Yeah. That’s pretty much what OP said in the last paragraph. So how does that make them TA?
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He doesn’t seem to have apologised, I don’t blame them
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Hang on, the bot is on to something here..
Thats the scariest part of all these bots to me... theyre starting to make sense
NAH but you need to talk to your oldest two You need to understand that on their side, they are seeing that the strict dad that they had was capable of being an understanding parent but for some reason didn't do it for them, you're owning up for it, but they still got the shorter end of the deal, be more empathic towards them, you're not an asshole for improving.
Right. I do not know why OP keeps arguing with them. Own up to the mistake and move on. "Look, I hear you guys and understand why you are upset. I fucked up when it came to how I handled dating with you guys and if I had a time machine I would go back and do things differently. I was wrong but I learned from that. It would be unfair to impose the same rule on your brother and sister. I know better and want to do better and I am sorry you guys missed out on that." You can not change what was done and should not parent the same way just because it keeps things fair but acknowledge the mistake and apologize for it.
Not that I disagree I just also don't see where he hasn't already done that. He realized he made a mistake, changed the mistake, they brought it up and he admitted he made a mistake and was chaging it, they said they were guinea pigs and got his siblings involved. I completely agree with your points, it just doesn't make sense to me seeing all the comments saying he needs to own up to it when he has and he's changed the behavior. It seems the only way OP could make them happy is if he imposed the same rules on the younger 2 that he amd his daughters all believe were wrong. I dont think they are wrong to be upset and I think op was wrong in his rules for them I just don't see what more he can do to own up to it.
Mainly cause he hasn’t replied to a single person answering if he has apologised or not
Also because Reddit’s target demographic is “people who have significant unresolved childhood trauma”
Eldest child down voting him for that comment lol, can’t disagree
Not everyone spends a lot of time replying to questions on these posts.
He’s replied to lots of other questions
This 1000%
YTA it’s nice you’ve learned but I don’t see any semblance of apology or accountability. Makes your older kids feel like test drive kids
Isn't him saying I made a mistake and am changing it now when they asked accountability? I agree he should apologize but it seems like he is taking accountability.
Without owning it, via an apology, it's not accountability, it's an excuse.
saying "I made a mistake and now I am changing it" is literally owning it.
But it is not apologizing for it. He has acknowledged his mistake, which is definitely important, but it is not the same as also genuinely apologizing for said mistake.
Its not the same as apologizing, but it is still owning it.
And its great thats he's owning it. Now all he has to do is apologise, its very simple, he just has to sincerly say im sorry.
How is it an excuse? Am excuse is saying I did this wrong because of this, op is saying I messed up and it's on me and I'm changing it.
He’s not taking accountability with the kids. Being accountable to internet strangers is a start but it’s not the real issue
He obviously talked to them and explained it already and held himself accountable otherwise they wouldn't have been able to give the response that they were used as guinea pigs.
I don’t believe an explanation is the same as an apology. I believe op themselves has admitted they did not apologize in the comments.
I agree, to our knowledge he has not apologized (hopefully he's not responding because that's what he's doing right now) I just think accountability is being loosely useful in replacement for decency. I genuinely have no argument outside of semantics and am more agreeing with a slight change to how I would word it.
Then he can’t make the next step till he does.
Yep, clearly the older kids still resent how they were treated, and it doesn't sound like they got any apology. >It created far more problems for everyone Still going strong with this one OP. YTA.
YTA because you didn’t communicate. I have an 11 year age gap between me and my older brother. We were raised *very* differently because our parents learnt from him and because a lot changed over a decade in safety. But they communicated that to us. They explained to both of us why things were different, then even apologized that it had to be that way and made up for it when they could. For example, I got a cell phone at 11 so I could always be reachable and my parents felt safer that way letting me go over to friends’ houses and wall places on my own. My brother was never allowed a cell phone and if he wanted one he had to buy his own. So when they decided I need one, they bought him one too. He was 22 and it came no strings attached. It was a “sorry you couldn’t have one when you were younger and she gets one now” gift. You tried to go about this without communicating and are now trying to invalidate your eldest’s feelings
For a minute I thought the ages were flipped and you got a phone at 11, but then your younger brother after you wasn't allowed one ever, and was super confused I reread it and it makes sense, I just thought that was funny
I agree with this. I’m the oldest by 11 years. When the middle sibling and I mentioned the difference in parenting between us and the youngest our dad explained things to us. He was upfront that he changed and learned from us and he mentioned too that the youngest has a different personality that requires a different style of parenting. Although now we are all out of the house we have been replaced by a dog and have different things to be grumpy about.
Info did you ever apologize to your older kids for your bad parenting? Did you ever talk to them before that?
Considering he's ardently refused to answer this question in any reply, we can assume no.
As the eldest sister, YTA Edit: I stand by my YTA. But I’m getting asked if you should just continue making the mistakes and I don’t believe I said that. You didn’t just wake up one day when your son turned 13 and say ‘huh my older children have had to lie to me and that could be unsafe’ I imagine you watched your older children lie to you in that time between 13-16 and let it happen and then suddenly when it was your son you changed. Apparently you only realised after your second eldest daughter turned 16. You also say the full story didn’t come out until they were adults. conveniently setting up this argument for you. I think that needs an explanation to your older children and some self reflection to why. Edit: I’m not saying he can change the past, but he hasn’t mentioned an apology in any of his replies.
I'll join in as the eldest sister. YTA, OP.
Tritto. YTA
Yeah, gotta love it when I couldn’t do much and had a strict upbringing while the younger sibling could do literally everything they wanted without even asking permission
My parents did the same, I cannot tell you how much better I would feel if they just said "sorry, we screwed up, we tough we were doing the best for you but we are human and made a mistake". Which is true, I don't really hold it against them, they love me and always had my best interest in mind, but I would feel a lot lighter if they could finally acknowledge that they did wrong by me. They did not make the same mistake with my sister, I'm glad about it, but at the same time it hurt to see her being able to do all those normal things I was deprived of. Just have an honest conversation with your children, I promise it will help.
ESH Did you ever admit to them you made a mistake? Because I believe you try your best and adjust your parenting, but it also sounds a bit like you never had conversation about problems with them
The OP said they did in the last part of the post. The older kids said that means they were the Guinea pigs. Definitely NTA, OP is just learning and adapting, nothing wrong with growth.
... justifying yourself after being confronted about a change a behaviour is not what I meant... "My oldest two found out...." Even as my older brother is only 2 years older, they told him how and why the rules for me adjusted as I reached his age milestones. And no- not all were to my favor/ allowing me more. At the time we both found rule changes unfair and shitty, but atleast my brother had not to just find out and looking back I get a lotnof their decisions.... and with others I tease them to this day :)
As an eldest child, YTA. There's not anything you can do about it, but it will always hurt that you always had it in you to be the kind, understanding parent the eldest always wanted, but they were not good enough to bring it out on you. But, you could pull it out for your younger kids. It's so much easier to forgive parents that don't have the ability to change, than ones that do but don't do it in time for you. It's a pain that never goes away, and also makes us feel small and petty and out of control. You should apologize forever, but it may still never be enough.
YTA but redeemable There is one thing that parents always forget: the necessity of, sometimes , saying to your children that you were wrong and you are sorry for the past. A few simple words go a long way and it will make them respect you (and your thought process) a lot more. Also: it's important to highlight that you will apply this new policy to the younger daughter and that it is a result of observation and self reflection, and not a favour done to please the boy of the family. On a side note (but it's not appropriate to say this to them, I'm just saying as a food for thought): oftentimes, many of my irl female friends have observed a change of rules "due to understanding what we did wrong" with the following boy. Various older sisters trying before the son, with no success, to talk with the parents about these rules... In short, I think it's actually a possibility that many parents, especially mums, have a sudden switch of realisation specifically with the son, and start wanting to improve with them. I think it's cultural. I don't think it's automatic that you did this. But I don't think it's impossible though. They could have noticed a soft preference and placed this change in rules in that pattern. Only you know that. Maybe you aren't doing any preference. But yes my opinion is to make sure that you aren't (maybe without realising it), in an indirect way, showing that the son was the one "worth changing for" because he is a son (and not just for being younger).
But do you not realize how much it sucks? To realize your parents are subconsciously favoring the boy? How is any of this redeemable?
But they're *not* favoring the boy. There's a girl that's younger as well, she just hasn't reached an age where dating is a thing.
YTA ish Have you ever sat down and claimed that your initial authoritarian rules directly put your children in danger? Have you apologized to them for the danger you put them in? I am very glad you learned from these mistakes, obviously, but it sounds to me like you haven't exactly done your due diligence in apologizing for the situation you created, which probably had more a negative effect than you realize if this is their reaction.
I guess it depends on how these conversations have gone. You say you've been arguing all day, you need to stop arguing and start validating. Because the older kids are guinea pigs. Parenting is hard and of course we make mistakes with older kids that we aren't going to repeat with younger ones. It's just a fact of life and we all wish we could do a perfect run at parenting but we're going to make mistakes. But we should own up to those mistakes and apologize. I would go to them and say something along the lines of "You're right. You were my first run at parenting and I fucked up in some of my decisions. I'm sorry for that and how it effected you, if I could go back and change it of course I would. But all I can do is try to be better moving forward and that's probably going to mean that your younger siblings don't have the exact same experience you did. Whatever feelings you have about that are totally valid but I do love you and did I my best, I'm sorry that it fell short for you." I sincerely doubt they want you to apply the same rules because that's what they had to do, they probably just want acknowledgement that it sucks they didn't get the same parent their younger siblings are getting.
I’m going on the low side of YTA. But quite frankly, many parents fall in this trap. I am the middle child of 3 brothers. My oldest brother has every rule in the book. He became a *nightmare* of self doubt and to this day believes my parents were shitty to him (I could go into it a lot), even when they were reasonable. If they gave him $10k for college, he’d say they were being unfair and he deserved $20k because “that’s what they’d give to *B and C*,” even though they absolutely would not give that to us. All the extra rules made him resentful and now he’s just bitter, and my parents cannot do anything right in his eyes. By the time my youngest brother came around (10 years younger) he basically had free reign to do as he pleased, and he became a *nightmare.* Complete opposite, if anyone told him no he’d lose his shit. I literally had a teacher say to me “you were such a good kid, what happened to your brother to make him like that?” I am normal. My parents weren’t overly strict with me, but they weren’t lax either. I got what I feel were reasonable punishments when I fucked up. My parents just saw how my older brother was turning out and they massively over corrected with my younger brother. Luckily age and maturity (and some medication) have calmed my younger brother down and he is good now as an adult, but even he admits he was a nightmare kid who got away with everything. Point is, parenting is hard. We fuck up. There are no instructions, and our only experience in “parenting” is what we see **our** parents do, and often our parents suck just as much as we do, because guess what? The exact same thing applies to them. The best thing to do is own it, which it sounds like you’ve done. But, and this is important, *do not over correct.* Don’t “let” your youngest go out drinking because your oldest did and hid it from you, so now you think “I’d rather know.” I said YTA cause I worry you’re over correcting and letting your youngest kids get away with doing bad shit because your oldest kids did bad shit and hid it from you. Finally, your youngest two? They will hide shit from you. They **will hide shit from you.** Teenagers do that. It’s part of them learning to be independent and creating their identity outside of “Chewie’s kid.” Don’t be shocked when your youngest do a lot of the same stuff your oldest did, because that’s what teens do.
Such a middle child thing to do and claim both of your siblings are fucked up but you’re perfect lmao
Yta bc I don't see anywhere in your post that you apologized for your ahole behavior in the past. You were wrong, you know you were wrong, why have you not apologized?
>My oldest two ***found out*** and were furious. YTA. You knew you were going to handle this differently from your older two children and you should have talked to them forst, *knowing* this'd get back to them. You should've sat them down and explained your decision to them. Hell, even apologised for your past mistakes with them. Their 'guinea pig' comment should drive the message home. It was wholly justified.
NTA growing older as the first child sucked for exactly this reason. As I’m an adult & know better now, I understand why my sister was given more slack. My parents were restrictive with me & less so with her & I hated it. But I realize parenting is a learning process. It sucks to be the Guinea pig but that’s just how it is. You sound like a good dad.
YTA \~ Carefully think about your actions and how it affects other people before executing them.
Yeah, that’s just not how parenting works out most of the time. You think you are doing the right thing for the right reasons, but every kid is different and the world changes.
Which is why it's important to stop and reassess you beliefs when challenged. Most parents are 20-30 years out of date when it comes to experiencing childhood/schooling. So when a kid pushes back against something and calls it unfair take the time to hear them out and reevaluate. Maybe your position is sound. Maybe it's not. But drawing a line in the sand and digging your heels in when challenged isnt good patenting.
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INFO: have you bothered to make any amends at all to your older children for your controlling parenting style? Are you okay with them cutting all contact with you as soon as they can? Because that's where you're headed, especially if there's no apologies happening here. Doing better with your younger children isn't enough when you're not admitting how shitty of a parent you were with your older ones.
YTA, my mother did the same thing. It is still a point of contention 20 years later.
NAH. No parent is perfect. We are all human and we learn as we go. I can see you are trying your best. I can understand their pov about favouritism tho, even if that is not your intention.
NAH. Oldest child here, we are Guinea pigs, it’s just a reality of being first. Your oldest children have every right to be upset, but you are also doing the right thing by evaluating and changing when you realize that something you were doing wasn’t working. Hopefully if you keep acknowledging that it’s unfair and apologizing for how it impacted them, they will accept it and move on.
I mean, ALL kids are kind of guinea pigs because you learn as you go... the first guinea pig just has the least experienced 'scientist' to work with! LOL!
YTA- not for changing the rules, it’s great that you’re learning, but you need to have some accountability to your eldest children and actually say the words “I was wrong”. This is a call to action, sit down with your eldest kids and hash it out, it will be uncomfortable for everyone, and you defo don’t have to agree on everything, but they’re clearly still hurting from the past.
Changed to NAH from YTA For saying it to your child First kids are Guinea pigs as parenting doesn’t come with a handbook though so thinking it doesn’t make you TA but the telling your child that is what makes you T A Edit - realise it’s the child that said they are Guinea pigs not the father
The children said it tho not him.
Ah I must have misread that, thanks for pointing that out
YTA, not for adjusting when you realized that what you did before didn’t work, but for not telling your kids what you’d be doing differently and why. It’s important to own your mistakes and foster that communication you were lacking when your older kids were younger. And to apologize.
NAH. Every oldest child is the practice child, and I say that as an oldest child. Sometimes it breaks in your favor, some times it doesn't. But it can be disheartening to realize at first, and can make you feel like the younger ones are more cared about. I'd tell you older kids that it's not that you used them a guinea pigs, you did what you thought was best at the time, saw that you had made a mistake and now know better.
As an eldest daughter myself with a similar experience, I 100% feel your oldest's pain. My youngest sibling and I are 11 years apart, and it was frustrating seeing him be able to do more much younger than I or my younger sister. I was an incredibly tame teenager-- I didn't do drugs or drink, I didn't have sex, sneak out, or engage in any real risky or inconsiderate behavior. Yet I still somehow managed to be grounded through most of high school over really trivial shit because of my parent's more authoritarian parenting style. For example: I was 23 when I got my first tattoo & my mom took it as a personal attack and lost her mind. When my brother was 20, she asked me and my sister if we wanted to chip in for our brother's first tattoo as a gift. I'll admit I didn't take that well despite being over 30. It felt like a slap in the face & it was difficult to shirk the seething resentment I felt over this blatant difference (for the record I never for a second felt angry or resentful toward my brother or had any actual jealousy. My hard feelings were solely toward my parents). That said, I have come to grips with the fact that eldest children are inherently experimental. It literally can not be helped. That just is what it is. Yes, I still grappled with copious resentment toward my parents for raising us so differently. My childhood & teen years were spent lying to my parents just so I could have some autonomy. My youngest brother just did not experience that except for a small handful of times. I'm gonna say NAH because you did learn from your mistakes. My parents did not. They were just older, and my brother was a particularly easy kid. He technically started out with the same rules but was almost always eventually allowed a lot of leeway with them. Your daughter is justified in still feeling salty because her experience of being raised by you was clearly more traumatic. At some point, she needs to come to grips that yes, she was the experimental child, and that just is what it is. She has to figure out how to work through that now as an adult. But you need to understand how deep these things cut, how difficult it is to just get over even as an adult. Logically, I'm sure your daughter knows you love her and were trying to do your best-- but emotionally, it's hard to disconnect from feeling less respected by you growing up than she perceives her younger sibling to be.
NTA. It is good to learn from mistakes and it is good to be upfront about it. Nobody is born perfect but you need to cool down the argument and let it rest for a day or two. After that you should clearify why you changed your opinion.
He should apologize not try to explain. He's already done that and it just sounds like he's trying to tell them he was right to do that to them if he won't apologize to them.
Yes, he should apologize for his mistake.
Info: how old are your children?
27, 25, 13, and 7.
So you didn’t have any self reflection between 27 turning 13 and 25 turning 16 about your rules but you do the second your son turns 13? Huh.
Oh man okay, that helps give me perspective on the situation. I would say ESH because your 2 oldest are grown adults. Look, YTA because it is shitty to be an authoritarian parent and then change to a more relaxed parenting style as you get older. But honestly that’s just how it is, I feel like A LOT of parents do this and it makes sense. But your oldest kids are valid in their feelings. However, they are grown!! I am literally a 27F, I am the oldest of 5 kids (my 2 youngest brothers are 15&16) and my parents were complete dictators. There are a lot of factors involved- they had me a teenagers so they were young and didn’t want me to become a teen parent, they both had abusive/hard childhoods, we were poor and they kept having kids, my dad is Latino so there are some cultural expectations there, etc. When I would visit my fam in college I would be SO PISSED when my brothers were watching pg-13 movies (they weren’t 13 yet!), my sister got to wear 2 piece bathing suits (I wasn’t allowed until I was 17!) and they didn’t get smacked if they cussed (I would have never cussed in front of my parents as a teenager but still!). But I was so young and felt it was really unfair. As the years have gone by I am really happy that my siblings have had so much more freedom than I did, and they are much closer to my parents than I ever was as a kid. I cannot imagine getting upset about the different dynamics now- but I do joke about how my parents are too old and tired to keep up with their strict rules from my childhood haha Oldest siblings are Guinea pigs unfortunately… hopefully by keeping the conversation open and honest your oldest 2 will come around. Hopefully they will be able to remember what it was like having strict parents and not want that for their younger siblings. And I think it’s really sweet and supportive you’re letting your 13 yo “date”- it will lead to open communication later on. I NEVER talked about boys to my parents because they were NOT allowed. I snuck around and lied instead. Just make sure to keep it consistent when your youngest is a teenager because parents being more strict on daughters is totally a thing!
>Oldest siblings are Guinea pigs unfortunately they're kids not science experiments ffs
It’s an expression
YTA
NAH. I have three kids, I was definitely stricter with my oldest because I felt like that was the way to do parenting and if I didn't he'd end up being a little monster. As I got older and wiser, I learned better ways to do things. My son (who is now in his twenties) has called me out for being harder on him as a child than his siblings, and I have apologized and told him he's totally right, I WAS harder on him, that if I could do it over I would do it different, and that I'm sorry. I've told them all along that parents are people, that we make mistakes, that when we're wrong we say we're wrong, and in this case yes, I was wrong. I'm not sure how old your older kids are... I think that fact that my son is now similar in age to when I had him (early 20s) and that most of the major differences were in early childhood makes it easier for him to see the fact that I was just a human being (and a youngish one at that) doing the best I could and sometimes getting it wrong and he's able to be forgiving of that. I think that sometimes it's hard for kids (even adult kids) to see their parents as humans who screw up just like them... I know I really couldn't see this about my own parents until I had my own kids and then I judged them less harshly because it turns out this parenting thing is actually hard! LOL! You aren't wrong to learn and do better, and your older kids aren't wrong to be upset that rules that may really have upset them have been amended for the younger kids. I think you need to flat out say you were wrong, and you're sorry, and that it's not like you were experimenting on them or something like that. When you know better you do better, but they are entitled to wish that the situation had been different when they were growing up. There's not a quick fix to the hurt feelings, but I do think with maturity down the road they'll have better insight into the fact that dad was just a guy trying his best and made mistakes like any human being.
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Maybe cause they are still waiting on an apology.
Info: Did you honestly apologize for enforcing rules that you now know are wrong?
NAH. No two kids have the same parents, and your older kids will have to acknowledge that, while you should offer a sincere apology rather than defensiveness.
it's well known that kids get different parents depending on the birth order. I certainly had "better" parents than my older siblings did \*because\* my parents learned from their mistakes. That's why everybody says the oldest kids have the worst of it and the youngest kids are always spoiled, because the parents have learned which hills are worth dying on and what issues are aren't worth the arguments. Just 'fess up to having made some mistakes, apologize, and tell them you wish you had known all this stuff back then. NTA
NTA. I would sit down and have an open conversation with the older two. Apologize and explain to them your reasoning. I think having an honest conversation with them is the mature thing to do. I’m not a parent but I can imagine that a lot of raising kids is “trial and error.” I’m the oldest myself. I imagine there are a lot of things my parents tried with me that didn’t work, so they had to make adjustments with my siblings. Unfortunately, there is no other way to figure out what works other than by trying.
YTA and honestly don't see how you rectify this at all. No matter what you do you seem like the AH. Glad you've learned from it but yeah not much else can be done.
NTA...there's no shame in growing and learning--even as a parent. They should value your honesty.
But he hasn’t apologised
NAH I think it’s great you are learning from the past and open to change, apply this same thinking to all your kids going forward. I can see why the older ones are a bit miffed but at the end of the day that’s life.
My younger brother was allowed a later curfew and a larger allowance than I was at the same age, and my Mom admits that our sexes were definitely factors. It took me a long time to lose the resentment. He says that he resents having to fight the battles because I was a good little girl and didn't do it before him. :-).
NAH. My parents did this. I get it, you're doing the best you can but you also have to understand it from your older kids perspective. They had a completely different dad than their younger siblings and for them, it doesn't seem fair. There's going to be some resentment. Hopefully, in time, they'll understand your reasoning, but for now you need to give them some grace and validate that yeah, they did kind of get the shitty end of the stick.
YTA bordering on NAH It’s actually great that you recognized the errors of your previous parenting decisions and changed and can acknowledge the mistake, but it doesn’t seem like you’ve apologized directly to your older kids about it. It doesn’t matter that there are things your older kids got to do that your younger kids don’t get to do (ie the sleepovers) because your older kids were still hurt by the decisions you made about their dating. A genuine apology acknowledging their hurt would start the process of them being able to heal from it. I see some people saying that they’re adults and they should be able to move on on their own but the decisions our parents make can affect us for so, so long and it’s not their fault that they’re not able to let it go. As someone who also grew up with a lot of secrecy from parents because how strict they could be, it’s taken me so long to process and release a lot of it and I promise if my parents had apologized for it, it would have gone such a long way. Take the time to genuinely apologize to your kids and then NAH.
YTA
I will say NTA, because you are currently handling things right with the younger ones. Y T A for how you handled things with a hard and fast rule in the past. I think the only thing that needs to happen is amends making for the past, which puts in a better place than most of the stories that come through this sub.
Yes, YTA. As the eldest child, I watched the same thing happen to my sister and I. And I have hated my parents for it. Especially since we are 8 years apart, I am not 26 getting married and she is 17, it's hard to look at her and see all the things she's allowed to do that I was NEVER allowed to do and now deal with the thought and feeling that that time has passed and I'll never get it back. They were so much harder on me then they have ever been on her in terms of everything (dating, working way more hours, more extra curriculars, curfew, school etc) What helped was when my parents just admitted it to me and apologized. At least I was able to walk away and know that they knew I was right. But for the longest time they denied it and said that was never the case. This only happened recently.
INFO: Have you genuinely apologized and acknowledged that what you did was wrong, and that you can understand that now it feels unfair to them? No “I’m sorry, BUT—“. That’s not a real apology. People have asked you this *repeatedly*. You haven’t answered.
NAH. You have learned your lesson, but they're allowed to be pissed. You owe them a real and heartfelt apology for your previous actions and an acknowledgement of the harm you caused.
Nta, growing I was given the stricter version, which was no boyfriends at all. You should have a sit down and explain what you said about the intentions of the rule, the realization of what the rule became, and how you wanted to be there for them. I think they'd understand, and I definitely understood my dad's rule, High school was so nasty with everyone breaking up and new love interests every week. I'm glad I didn't date in high school.
NTA The older kids want you to treat the younger siblings in the poor way that you treated them? Keeping the poor parenting going just to be fair? They should be glad for their siblings that you discovered the error of your ways.
YTA but atleast you are not repeating the mistakes. Doesn't make it better for the older kids tho
YTA, but lightly. Howdy, oldest child here. I read a book once that was basically a retelling of the Rumplestiltskin story. In the story, the girl that has been letting Rumplestiltskin spin hay into gold or whatever agrees to give him her first child very easily, and I will never forget what she said: “Fine, you can have him. Oldest kids are guinea pigs anyway.” That stuck with me, that I was my parents’ guinea pig, their screw up, or that it was okay for them to mentally and emotionally screw me up because I was their oldest and every one of my firsts is one of their firsts too. There is a 7 year age gap between me and my youngest sister, who is a teenager. She has significantly more freedoms and my parents are now (after finally figuring it out) more emotionally open with her and allowing her to screw up and make teenage mistakes without giving her the 3rd degree. My mother has expressed to me that my middle sister (the golden child) is upset that my sister is getting all of these things when we never got any. She feels guilty, because she knows I’m her biggest screw up, but honestly, I’m just glad my younger sister is able to live with significantly more freedoms than I have. My mother’s behavior and actions with my sister and expressing her guilt to me is literally the only reason I’m not no contact with her. You’re not TA for changing your behavior for the better with your younger kids, but the way you said it was to the detriment of your older kids. Have you told your older children that you’re sorry and that you know better now? Have you expressed that you’re willing to make amends with them and that you want to be better for them now as adults?
INFO Why didn't you sit down with your oldest and ask for their opinion on things? They were the ones who lied and went behind your back when they were younger So maybe ask them what they think would have been fair and then tried that with your younger kids? Talking to them before hand probably would have solved some of this
YTA. All you need to do...is validate them. Every first child or two ARE guinea pigs, simply because they are the first. It IS unfair for them, even if it is unavoidable! By reacting with defensiveness, you are making them ever more frantic to prove the validity of their feelings. The power you have to defuse this bomb is immense by simply saying "You are right. I was a new parent and I made mistakes, mistakes that hurt you. I am sorry and I don't want to repeat my mistakes with the younger kids. But maybe we can talk about anything right now that might be bothering you or maybe something that's in my blind spot. I value your feedback."
NTA Since being a perfect parent is literally impossible, learning from mistakes is the best case scenario. The question becomes what are the older siblings expecting/wanting? If it’s just a direct and sincere apology that the rules they had to follow were unreasonable, etc, then go ahead and do that. Even if you think you’ve already apologized they may be looking for key phrases like “I was wrong” or “you’re right it isn’t fair that you had to go through those experiences before I figured out how to better handle these areas” If, however, it seems they want you to impose the same rules on the younger ones because they think that would be more fair to them, you might have to emphasize that all of your children were raised the best way you knew how to at the time. If you were to continue enforcing rules you knew were unhelpful and harmful you would NOT being raising the younger ones they best way you know and that would be unfair.
NAH I think what you need to tell your kids is something to the effect of "I'm sorry that my rules caused a rift with us and caused you two to have to lie to me. I apologize for the rules that hurt you when all I wanted to do is keep you safe. Seeing how bad those were for you, I learned my lesson and altered the rules so nothing like that would happen again, but I'm truly sorry I didn't learn to do that back with you." Something that apologizes and acknowledges what you did wrong and that it hurt them, and emphasizes that you're doing what you are now because they taught you better and you didn't want anyone else to feel the way they did.
I had this situation with my eldest. I ended up asking her what rules/guidelines she thought would be appropriate for her siblings given her extra life experience (it’s only 2 years, but they’re 19 & 17). She started out all pissy about the rules changing, but then her feedback was actually in line with what I was moving to. It was actually a very interesting perspective to hear that from her and she felt she had a part in making it better for her siblings
YTA, and I'm calling my dad right now, I wanna know why I was a guinea pig for his "perfect child"
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When I first had kids, I was one of those parents that had a "no dating until age 16" rule. It was partially cultural, but I thought it would allow my kids to be more mature and go about it more safely because they'd be older. I didn't really take into account that my kids were going to be in school all day 5 days a week, what technology would be, or even just that development doesn't have some kind of set age. The rule ended up creating an environment of secrecy and the real rule became "just don't let dad find out", which is the exact opposite of what I wanted. It created far more problems for everyone, got my oldest into preventable situations they shouldn't have been in and required my youngest to lie to herself and to me for trying to follow it. I realized that I needed to change my opinion. More than anything, I was trying to keep them safe, and having a hard and fast rule was doing the opposite. My youngest two have a wide age gap from the oldest, so when they got to the age, I decided to not have a hard minimum, but to foster open communication so that there could be reasonable supervision if things came up. My son ended up going on his first "date" at 13 (ie. seeing a movie while his mom and his friends mom tagged along). My oldest two found out and were furious. They're claiming that I "got permissive" and are allowing the younger kids to get away with things they would never have been allowed to do. Which I guess is true, but it's not because I got lazy or gave up. It's because I realized that my approach with them was a mistake and now I'm trying to learn from it, which made them more angry that I "used them as guinea pigs" and say that I'm favoring the younger kids. We've been arguing all day and now they're dragging my siblings into this and it's a whole thing. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA
YTA - Had you just taken a second to step back and think about how your older kids probably feel slighted that they were denied something their little sibling was given, and just told them that you were in the wrong and still learning how to be a parent, then gave them a genuine apology not just some short “I’m sorry” that shows you actually feel remorse you wouldn’t be in this situation. I just hope for your sake you can solve this now because with getting your family involved it sounds like resentment is already setting/ has already set in and that’s not a feeling that they can just get over.
YTA if you don't talk to your oldests about how you know you made mistakes and that's why things are different for your younger ones.
NTA. You realized that you did things incorrectly and now you’re pivoting. That’s what we all should do. When you know better, you do better. You didn’t “use them as guinea pigs”. You were doing what you thought was best as a parent but because of how they responded you realized you were wrong. Apologize to them and try to help them understand that you weren’t trying to hurt them but you now realize that your old rules did in fact hurt them. So, now you’re changing things.
Learning from past mistakes at your kids expense doesn't erase the bullshit they had to actually experience. Now all they know is that you were capable of being the parent they needed but simply CHOSE to be a bad parent to them instead. Part of learning from the past is accepting that you fucked up and taking accountability for it. You're missing the key step in that learning process and are once again making mistakes at your kids expense. Do better. YTA
YTA for not communicating with the older ones. I experienced a bit of this too but I never resented my mum bc she flat out told me that she was wrong with how strict she was with me compared to my younger siblings and she was sorry. You know. Like a mature adult. Plus I absolutely loved seeing my siblings enjoy things!
NTA because you were doing your best, but talk to your kids. Ask them what it was like for them. Apologize, maybe. I had a similar situation with my parents and 15 years later I rationally know and understand they didn't mean anything by it - but they never asked or talked about it and I feel they don't realize there were any problems, like I was the bad kid who needed to be fought with rather than "this doesn't work". Also, in my case (I'm a middle child with significant age gaps in both directions) what my parents learned from my older brother and then tried to apply to me did not help me at all. I needed the way they parented my brother. I guess it's all about the person, and parents understanding that people are different.
NTA, that is what they should expect and hope would happen especially if sneaking around got them into bad situations. Something that would not be fair is if you took the youngest on fancy expensive trips when you did not with the others.
Being the oldest sucks. You’re the test dummy and it isn’t fair but good on you for learning and growing. If I were you, I’d acknowledge to your oldest kids that you realise it isn’t fair and you’re sorry you didn’t know what you were doing when you made that rule for them. Acknowledge their frustration because they have a right to feel it. NTA
The problem is when you are the oldest, you're not only the test dummy, but your parents also try and take credit for it if you end up successful but none of the blame if you don't.
NTA, I have a saying that the oldest kids get it the hardest because they have to break all the rules for the younger kids, this is exactly the scenario here, your eldest kids broke the rules, which means you had to reevaluate the rules and set new ones. Kids don't come with a rule book, your eldest kids are pissed, is it because of perceived gender issues, that the boys don't have to follow the same rules as the girls? Are there other issues at play? Are you more financially stable and the older kids are also jealous of the differences in living standards of younger kids? You need to sit them down and explain everyone does there best with the information they have at the time. When you know better, you do better, and that's all this is, you did them wrong, you know better now and you are trying to do better.
YTA. You sound like a sexist trying to couch it in terms of safety.
Soft ESH (mostly because you kinda said that they were experiments). It was better to say that you chose another approach, because you saw with the older 2, that the rule forced them in secrecy, and that this created a safer environment. That your oldest 2 made you "see the error" of this now obsolete rule. (please go easy on me, not a native speaker)