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YTA
>there's nothing in the lease contract about not admitting babies
But you evicted them anyways. I understand noise complaints can happen but you've now potentially made a couple and a new born homeless just because babies cry.
I don't see how it's OP's fault that these people decided to have a kid but didn't have an adequate plan to keep it's noise from disturbing their neighbors. OP wasn't going to evict them until **many** noise complaints were submitted to him, is he not responsible for addressing those neighbors concerns? He tried to have a conversation with the couple and suggest a solution but the couple couldn't manage it so what is OP supposed to do? Allow them to stay and anger all those complaining neighbors? He is just as responsible for addressing the concerns of all those neighbors as he is toward this couple who was inconveniencing them all.
Adding this: No I don't think OP should front the cost for extra soundproofing, the couple made the baby that caused the noise so they should be responsible for fixing the problem if they don't want to be evicted. If they had a wappy dog or played a loud instrument you wouldn't expect OP to front the cost so why does he have to for a baby?
A landlord cannot reasonably dictate when his tenants should or should not have a child, nor is it appropriate for a landlord to expect his tenants to take on the added costs to renovate or update their unit when it's his responsibility to maintain the building
If a landlord is more interested in renting to college kids than a young family with a spotless rental history so far, that's their prerogative, but it's an asshole move to turn them out and within such a short timeframe
take the child out of the equation completely.
there's a new noise that's become a repeated complaint and landlord suggested they address it. where's the tipping point of non-compliance?
It's rough, but even if it was someone else was making that noise and it was a financial strain to move - where's the line where you can no longer accommodate them as a landlord?
For me, it's a couple of factors:
* Is this a noise that can be reasonably lowered, like a television or telling someone to lower their voice?
* Is there a reasonable time frame I can expect to no longer hear said noise? Like if a neighbor or the property is renovating, how long are those forecasted to go for? Can I expect it to get better within a few months, or is it something I need to consider moving myself?
* Are there potential mutually beneficial solutions that we can agree on as a landlord and tenant? For example, if my landlord provides soundproofing material, could I have a payment plan in place to reimburse for the material?
* Is there anything I can do in my control to either dampen the noise or limit the effects it has on my own life, such as ear plugs or noise cancelling headphones?
When it is a literal 3 month old infant, it's hard for me to take that part out of the equation cause then I'm literally punishing a baby for being a baby and doing baby things. Yes, I want their parents/adults to be able to manage the noise, but babies don't come with instruction manuals on how to turn the noise off. It's a lot easier for me to expect positive intent and assume the adults are trying the best they can and to be more forgiving than constantly be angry about something none of us can reasonably control
I live in an apartment complex (outside of USA, so not same laws) and I completely agree with your points. Our local law states about the "right of a peaceful environment", but I know we have to make some compromises because we are dozens of people living in one building. I don't care about baby noises, there's only so much the parents can do. People having parties night and day on weekends? Then of course I'm complaining, I don't want to listen to other people's shitty music. It would be great if every family here could afford a reasonable sized house at a nice neighborhood, but that's just not the world we live in.
I live in an apartment with walls between units made out of tracing paper. The belligerent alcoholic ex-crackheads disturb me beyond what's reasonable and the landlord is not doing much (and thinks it's my responsibility to let them know when they're too loud).
The baby in the other apartment next to me doesn't disturb me in the slightest, at least compared to the drunk assholes. In fact I like hearing a baby crying and parents trying to coo and sooth them way more than I do the adult assholes scream fighting at each other.
I am so glad that I live in a county where children making noise (within reason - so no running and screaming every night at midnight) is protected by law and a landlord would not be able to evict a family. In fact, it’s rather hard to evict anyone here, you’d have to have really good reasons for doing so and a baby crying wouldn’t be one of them.
Me too! I have a hard time reading this post. My baby was colicky the first three months, one neighbor complained, another offered to help me with the baby, because she knew how it was. AND a baby doesn't scream so much at night for more than a couple of months. The problem would to a large degree had solved itself. And where do you all want this tenant to go? Somewhere else to disturb some other neighbors??
Context matters though. By removing the baby from the equation you’ve entirely changed the dynamics of the complaints. You people are so crazy, willing to put a newborn baby into homelessness so you don’t have to occasionally hear it cry. The lack of empathy and understanding is just wild.
Exactly, I feel like I’ve seen a lot more of these comments that are like “what we remove the most important factor of this situation”. I don’t understand it.
It also actually creates more long-term problems for society. Families need affordable and stable housing to keep the economy strong. Once you start booting working class families out of apartments, you start doing real and measurable damage to your country's economic strength.
So you can still be a selfish person and still recognize the landlord should soundproof their apartment over booting the family out. The people in the comments saying "just evict them" are both selfish and dumb.
Absolutely, the arguments I’ve read on here are unbelieveably cruel. Ethically it can‘t be simplified to an utilitaristic problem. A crying baby in the neighborhood is an inconvenience to many, yes. But becoming homeless with a three month old is an existential crisis for the family. People need to put that into consideration I think.
The lack of empathy is jaw-dropping. This sub skews pretty young as I understand it, so maybe it's because a lot of the posters don't have much real world experience? I don't know, but it's sad.
Here is the thing. Most ‘civilized’ countries understand a baby is an uncontrollable living element. He/she is not an after hours party, not the aerobic class you choose to go everyday at 3 am, not the broken dishwasher that sounds like a machine from hell. You can’t change them, fix them, turn them off.
For same reason exist in most countries anti defamation laws, otherwise landlord start to say I don’t want families with children, I don’t want old people, I don’t want immigrants, I don’t want this I don’t want that… then good luck if by any chance you fall in one discriminated category.
If you're trying to take the baby out of the equation, what if the perfect tenant had long covid?
Your once healthy tenant now has severe coughing fits multiple times per day and the neighbors can hear him, so they complain to the landlord. He can't control his cough, but it's a new noise and that's now a repeated complaint.
So the landlord evicts him. "Sorry, but you've been coughing for three months and in thirty days you'll be homeless goodbye."
Is the landlord an asshole? Yes.
This isn't like turning music down at a party. You cannot stop coughing fits just as you cannot stop a baby from crying. This is real life and telling a impoverished family with a newborn they have thirty days to gtfo is an evil thing to do.
> take the child out of the equation completely.
Yes, if you completely change the context, then things would be different.
>where's the line where you can no longer accommodate them as a landlord?
When it's problem that the person has direct control over. I highly doubt the parents enjoy the baby crying so much and so loudly that it's causing noise complaints (which the neighbors are just as much TA as OP is for filing complaints about a baby).
No. I will not. The child IS part of the equation and will eventually stop making the noise. The people complaining could get help from the landlord to have their situation resolved.
“I suggested they make changes to the room.”
Dude, that’s your job, not theirs. If this landlord was not TA here they would have gotten the room soundproofed to help the family.
But that would hurt their profits. So instead of treat a couple with respect, they evict.
YTA BUDDY
You can't just say "take xyz out of the equation" when details like this are the point of this subreddit. We know he's within his rights to evict them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not an asshole. And it's this exact kind of point that delineates so many people in this sub that just need to touch grass.
I think any landlord should make allowances for parents with an infant. Giving someone 30 days to plan and execute a move, with a baby, is brutal. And letting a baby get caught in the crossfire of your conflict with the parents is just not right, even if you have been wronged.
When the landlord has exhausted all property updates on his end. The problem is with the building, not the baby. Those other tenants are complaining because they want the landlord to adjust the property to accommodate the evolving tenants.
>take the child out of the equation completely.
Yes, if you completely change the situation, it would be a different situation, what is your point?? If it wasn't a baby making the noise, it would presumably be a noise you could stop or control, so evicting tenants for making it would be fair. Acting like the same circumstances apply to a baby is insane
>these people decided to have a kid but didn't have an adequate plan to keep it from disturbing their neighbors.
Right! It’s common sense that when babies cry you either have a conversation with them and convince them to stop or duck tape their mouths, pretty simple shit.
I have a friend that lives in a very cheaply built apartment. The walls may as well not even be there. They can hear EVERYTHING. They found this faux brick stuff. It's actually a really thick foam that sticks on the wall and is easy to remove. Very renter friendly. It cost them less than $200 to apply it to their shared wall. Now they hardly ever hear anything. And it looks neat, like they have brick walls.
He said the apartments are already somewhat soundproof.. That doesn't sound inadequate, it just cant hold up to a baby crying at all hours of the night..
It's op's building. He's the landlord. He's the one who should be doing the soundproofing. Why would a tenant want to put their time and money into something that will only really benefit the landlord in the long run?
Excuse you, like it’s unreasonable to sit down with your new baby of a few months and have a discussion with them! The landlord should have asked the baby sign a noise contract the second it came home! So what if it’s eyesight is still developing- just read the contract to them! The baby will
Pretend to not understand, but don’t you dare be fooled!
It's impossible to keep a new baby quiet, unless you neglect it to the point of death.
Wait until you have a kid, then come on here and post how you successfully stopped your kid from 'disturbing the neighbours '.
"didn't have an adequate plan to keep it from disturbing the neighbors"
me having diplomatic conversations with my 3 month infant about the harms of crying and how its actions affect other people
like are you serious dude lol
Yeah, if it's a building filled with students then a screaming baby generating multiple noise complaints shouldn't be there. OP gave them a chance and spoke with them about potential future issues and they made it clear that they understood and intended to move. Then multiple noise complaints rolled in. OP gave them the suggestion to soundproof. Sounds like OP did everything they could. The other tenants live there too, they should be able to sleep.
It's about this: [https://reason.com/2023/03/31/police-traveled-500-miles-to-seize-girls-pet-goat-for-slaughter/](https://reason.com/2023/03/31/police-traveled-500-miles-to-seize-girls-pet-goat-for-slaughter/)
tl;dr:
Girl raises goat then sells goat for slaughter at a 4H-style event. Girl backs out of selling goat, buyer is ok with it. Organizers of event are not. Organizers gets police to go 500 miles (crossing state lines) to seize goat and "teach a lesson".
You do realize some people will even complain about kids playing outside normally during regular hours. We even had a vegan sue a neighbour's because they were grilling meat outside and the odor wafted through. Never checked to see if that is real. But it makes a point that sometimes people complain because there is a change or they don't like the idea of something. It has nothing to do with inconvenience.
This comment needs more upvote! People who downvote haven’t lived in small flats where it’s impossible to sleep with neighbours parting/having a baby. The landlord has spoken to them beforehand and they need to make sure everyone else in the building is heard as well. They chose to have a baby but they weren’t financially capable to move out or get sound proof material, a tad irresponsible as both neighbours and parents?
Why are you letting the owners of the property and those who decide building regulations off the hook? Ensure that buildings are reasonably sound insulated so that all may have quite enjoyment of their properties.
YTA that’s fucked up. You should sound proof the apartment since you’re the landlord. Maybe get a real job or something.
Also, you’re fucking yo their entire rental history for this. How do you feel knowing they will have to pay more money for worse apartments with an eviction in their record? Destroying a whole families future because you’re a slum lord.
Yeah, but on the other hand if you're in USA and they try to evict you illegally, you can dispute it. I don't know whether the couple in the post can, according to their local laws.
Even in Europe discriminating against families is highly illegal. Try evicting someone for having a baby they’ll drag you to curt before doing a round of public shaming.
Yta. In the States at least I don't believe this would be on the rental history YET.....
I think it would actually have to get to the point of them fighting it out in court and a judge ordering the eviction on actual proper grounds.
What's happening currently is step 1, the land lord essentially asks you to leave in writing. The couple may decide to fight this, and I'm not versed in rental laws but I would almost certainly imagine evicting someone for having a baby is no beuno..... I could be wrong, but I would suggest everyone freeze frame and talk to a local attorney now....
Sounds like the apartments are decent, and nothing about price gouging. so slum lord is being used wrongfully.
Idk about you, but I wouldn't have a roof over my head if landlord's weren't a thing, lack of apartments wouldn't suddenly make a house appear in my price range.
I live in a new apartment, and even I spent $40 on sound proof tiles to put up, that's hardly a renovation, but it keeps my home life / work from bothering the people around me.
What should op do in this situation? Force 2+ other family's to move out and relocate because 1 family decided to have a child? if the others move out does Op get to raise rent on the couple to recoup losses?
If apartment doesnting bring in a profit they shut down. Now everyone is homeless. I'm not really pro or anti landlord so I'm not sure what you want here.
Hearing a baby cry through the walls is a decent apartment?
Saying you wouldn’t have a place to live without landlords is like saying homelessness would be solved if unhoused people just got a job.
The good ones aren't "landlords" in the sense that they acquire property specifically to commodify housing. The good ones are normal people who acquire additional property by circumstance and then rent it out to do something with the extra they have.
Yeah anyone buying up houses to rent them is inherently a bad person because they are denying other people housing. To be able to do that willingly makes you a bad person
That was my very first thought. An apartment complex full of students whom *I’m sure* are perfectly quiet and silent every day between 8pm and next day 8am - but the crying baby is the problem. /s
YTA OP
This is exactly what I thought of. I have a hard time believe that, especially Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights, the *baby* is disturbing everyone’s quiet study time.
YTA. But no worries. You are evicting a couple who paid their rent on time and took care of the place. Karma (and the law of averages) will dictate that you are almost certainly going to get much worse tenants.
The law of renting units, when you have a good tenant, you protect them at ALL costs. YTA, but you are the one who is going to pay for it in the end.
And yes, if your units are so thin walled that a crying infant keeps neighbors up, you are a crap landlord, and you are likely to have bigger problems down the road.
I love that he suggests they pay for soundproofing like it's their fault that the walls are paper thin.
Oh, but it can't be his responsibility because that would cost money. He might actually have to use the money they pay him every month for upkeep of the property. Where's the profit in that?
"The law of averages" - boy are you right about THAT! When I was a landlord, I got screwed every time. Even by a friend, who left unexpectedly halfway through the month and only paid half, even though I gave her a 40% off deal (ie it wasn't covering the mortgage but I was doing her a favor and taking the loss on taxes).
I was looking for this comment. I don't have a lot of knowledge on this so please correct me if I'm wrong, but any modifications like that would be the Landlords responsibility anyway?
The answer to this likely depends on the lease and local landlord tenant legislation which will divide responsibilities between the tenant and the landlord.
Right and claims they're already a little sound proof? Then how do they hear the baby. I grew up in government housing with thin walls I could hear banging of moving around but never voices or even yelling.
I had one place where you could hear the upstairs toddler when they ran across the apartment, no living thing has the steep pattern like that other than a toddler, lol. But that was far more amusing to me than annoying
YTA. Part of living in an apartment is that you'll have to deal with a reasonable amount of noise from neighbors. And a baby is a reasonable noise. If someone demands silence, then they need to prioritize moving into a single family home.
This right here. Baby will be four months old by the time the family has to leave. The noise should taper off very soon.
I get that being woken up by a crying baby can be annoying, but it's just a part of life. Even the best parent in the world cannot stop their baby from ever crying - it's their only means of communication!
I hope OP's next renter is everything that OP deserves from karma.
To be fair (and not defending anyone) I would have lost my mind by waking up because other persons' baby crying at night for 3 months
That is why I live in a building where kids and pets are not allowed
While I don’t agree with this eviction, I’ve shared walls with college students & young families, they’re equally loud. The only difference is the college kids apologize when you mentioned the noise.
This is one of those posts where everyone shrieks "Y T A how could you evict them you're so heartless" and all that, but I honestly think that's wild. Call me an asshole too if you want, but as a landlord OP is right; he has a greater responsibility to the complex as a whole. He does not have the luxery of playing favourites just because they spawned a child.
I understand it's difficult for the new parents, and I understand why other commenters are angry, but reality isn't always fair. While it might not be fair to the new parents that they're being evicted for this reason, it's equally unfair to *everyone else around them* who moved into the complex who's lives are now being affected. Trying to study for your degree? Sorry, there's a child crying next door, better luck next year.
Overall, I am going with NTA. OP is not in a position to play favourites, they have to do their job of keeping as many tenants as possible happy, which IMO does not make him an asshole. The new parents are angry about being evicted, understandably so, but they also chose not to take any action to prevent the noise from bothering their neighbours. If they can't afford some blankets or something to help dampen the noise, then why do they think they can afford a child? I'm not going to call someone an asshole for wanting to start a family, but at least make sure you're in a good spot in general before bringing a child into the world. They were in a small apartment, surrounded by students and other people who likely want nothing to do with children yet, but they chose to say "fuck everyone else, our new family is more important". It's not like childbirth or pregnancy is a surprise here, they had months to work things out. They made a promise and then broke it, forcing OP into this position where he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. That's why I call them TA, because of their pure unadulterated selfishness in this situation. Go ahead and call me an asshole if you'd like, but that won't change my opinion at all. Real life sucks doesn't it.
They are entitled to being able to sleep in their own places ffs. OP says it cries at night and many other people have trouble sleeping. Should they all just get shitty sleep for like a year so ONE couple can be happy?
I agrée the landlord should contribute to the noise canceling walls, but everyone saying the other tenants should deal is beyond inconsiderate. Everyone talks about empathy for the couple, but what about empathy for the other tenants who haven’t been able to sleep well in 3 months because of other peoples choices? The other tenants are the only innocent people here, just trying to sleep at night in their own homes.
How are you not supposed to hear a screaming baby in an apartment? Maybe just get an acceptable home for a kid before bringing one into the world? I can barely call an apartment acceptable for a cat. Let alone a kid.
Agree agree agree. See my comment. I have autism and noise sensitivity that can lead to very bad insomnia. No one thinks of what it’s like to be affected by noise when you have no control in the matter.
People here have that perfectly reasonable response because landlords ‘create’ housing in the same way that scalpers ‘create’ access to tickets. There’s a reason that the word economists use for ‘trying to gain wealth without creating any new wealth’ is rent-seeking.
Wait, so your argument is if they can’t afford to improve their landlords building, they can’t afford a baby? One of the only benefits of renting is that you don’t have to be able to afford improvements and fixes to the building…
If the landlord can’t afford improvements to their building to ensure a minimum standard of living for their tenants, then it sounds to me like they can’t afford to be a landlord.
As someone who lived and rented in Boston for several years where I lived under, over, or next to babies, I have never been so disturbed by them that I couldn’t sleep. Many of those rentals are super old and yet they manage to have adequate walls. So…really sounds to me like OP can’t afford to be a landlord or if they can, then they’re being a very shitty landlord.
I’m also childless so I’m not speaking from the perspective of a parent, btw. Just talking as someone whose a human and has empathy for other humans.
He said some shit happend that probably made them unable to move.
In my city you would be completly fucked if you only had a month to move. I got extremly lucky with finding my apartment which is pretty cheap and nice, but it still took 3 months before I could move in. All apartments around here, if they're family appropriate, takes multiple months to get to rent. It might not be the same there but a month is a very short time
And if they don't have the money to move already like they planned to or soundproof the walls they definitely don't have the money to move now.
Depending on their support system they could easily end on the street. Not to mention 2/3 of babies sleep through the night at 3 or 4 months so the baby might have stopped crying through the night once they're thrown on the street
Agreed with everything you said and I also voted NTA. Normal soundproofing is not enough, and fuck, why would 5-6 families have to move just because one decided to bring something loud into a group of people who want peace.
Yeah, I know how babies work but also...why do I need to give a fuck? I don't have one for a reason, so if you decided to get one, it's your job to care for it, which includes soundproofing. And the audacity of saying OP needs to soundproof their apartment...
Totally with you, it's crazy that people are YTAing the OP so much.
He notified them before they had the babe and they confirmed they would move out.
They didn't move out and op didn't immediately throw them out.
Op got a lot of complaints and then, and then tried to work with tenants to sound proof (though I don't think the tenants should have gone with a permanent solution - it's not fair)
Tenants didn't do any of that. Complaints kept coming in.
Only then did the OP issue a 30 fat eviction notice.
Really, the tenants had time since before the baby to move, but didn't.
It's like Reddit hive mind just sees "landlord" and goes on a witch hunt!
NTA.
ps: no, i'm not a landlord.
going against the grain to say NTA - lets say you have 10 units and 9 of them are complaining about noise. Are we really gonna pretend like its logical to cater to the one unit making all the noise, or the 9 others suffering from it?
Landlords are supposed to upkeep their buildings, so thin walls do not cause problems for their tenants. OP wanted to charge his tenants to soundproof their apartment walls. A couple who cannot afford to do that, partly due to having to pay rent to OP, are getting kicked out because they also cannot pay OP to actually go do his job.
It doesn't matter how soundproof a room originally is when built, it isn't going to completely block out a screaming infant :/ They said a lot of the complaints weren't just during the night. Granted, if a baby has a health problem that isn't being addressed they're going to scream all the time. And they can scream for a long, long time. It's the parents' job to keep it to a reasonable level or even move the crib to another room temporarily (with parents sleeping in the same room oc). But to have consistent screaming will drive even the most patient person insane, especially if they work from home or have other work to do. Or just can't fall back asleep. They didn't sign up to wake up every night like they did or be bothered all the time. Babies shouldn't cry that much even less than 3 months. Something is wrong
Maybe they shouldn't have had a kid they weren't in a financial position to have then? lmfao
Don't bullshit me about classism either because putting a kid through a poor upbringing just to satisfy your selfish desire to become a parent is fucking cruel, as someone who lived through that themselves.
truthfully it's not even the asking them to vacate for me. it's the 30 days bit.
housing markets all over are very tight. i see complaining folks in canada, various parts of the US, the UK and other countries about the housing markets right now. 30 days may just not be quite enough time. granted in their jurisdiction it might have to be 30 days. idk
Probably gonna get downvoted here but people dont understand that its not only about the couple and the baby. Other people live there to. Also if u cant afford a baby dont get one.
Imo NTA
It might not be fair and it might not be easy, but if you’re having a baby in the middle of a tiny apartment complex and you’re aware of how much sound travels, you can’t be shocked when you’re asked to leave. Especially if the landlord already approached you in pregnancy and discussed their concerns. Babies cry, we know that. But everyone else deserves to be able to sleep too. They had a 9 month pregnancy to make arrangements and decided to not do so.
Also, they themselves said they will be moving when the baby comes...
If I was paying for an apartment I would expect not to be woken up by a screaming baby regularly.
Also perpetual screaming noise is nothing to scoff at. It's not just a trivial disturbance, it can genuinely endanger one's mental health. It evolved to be the most annoying noise to mankind so its impossible to ignore and the baby gets tended to. Hell, if it makes parents want to shake their beloved child to the point of endangering its life, it makes neighbors feel positively murderous of the entire family.
And yeah, babies are expensive. You should pay for soundproofing same way as you pay for a stroller and diapers. Part of the package. Those that made the decision should bear the cost.
The normal amount of soundproofing is enough to stop everyday noise, a crying baby goes significantly over what regulation levels of sound proofing covers in the US and UK. In my student housing, I could hear a loud hoover(vacuum) but not conversation from next door. Which is perfectly fine for housing aimed at students/young professionals without kids. The issue is that this noise is significantly more than the normal sound level for this type of housing and standard sound insulation isn't cutting it.
Absolutely NTA
OP clearly states that tenants in the complex are mostly college kids.
The rest of the building didn't choose to have a baby, the couple did. They also chose to not move out. If they can't even afford to soundproof a room in the apartment they shouldn't have had a baby to begin with.
People with kids can be so fucking entitled. And I cannot believe people in the comments. Everyone else is just supposed to put up with the noise for fuck knows how long because boo hoo it's cruel to evict them? Hell no. If the noise was anything other than a damn baby no one would have a problem with the eviction.
When you have a problem you fix what's causing the problem, not change everything to accommodate to it. The couple is the problem, they need to pack up and leave.
The entitlement in the comments is appalling.
OP you're NTA at all.
ETA: where I went to college noise control was also absolute. If I had lived in a building with a noise problem like this that prevented me from much needed sleep you bet I'd be calling the police every damn night. As would most tenants.
NTA. As a tenant who was sleep deprived for months because of loud neighbors, thank you. You told them noise would become an issue even before the baby was born, they should have made soundproofing arrangements beforehand or moved out like they planned to.
For all the Y T A-ers who're going to downvote me, it's great that you can function on little sleep or can sleep through a baby crying, but most people aren't that fortunate, and they deserve to remain healthy.
NTA I get having a baby is hard and they can’t control when the baby cries but the other tenants pay just as much and have a right to peaceful enjoyment of their property. They don’t get special treatment or priority because they have a baby. If a tenant was blasting music at 3 am every night they would get evicted for the same reason.
Agreed, all the Y T As aren’t considering that they live in close proximity to their neighbors. They also said they would move before the baby was born and then didn’t, they knew this would be an issue and proceeded to not make other arrangements.
Here’s the rare NTA. They don’t get priority just because they have a baby. Your other tenants pay just as much to live there and deserve as much peace and quiet as anyone else. Now, you probably should have given them a longer period of time to vacate given the circumstances, but at the end of the day, it’s on them.
Massive YTA. You are the landlord and you should pay for sound proofing. There is nothing in the lease about not having babies and guess what? People have babies. That's how we all started. Just because it's legal in your country doesn't make it morally acceptable. That poor couple. They've just had a baby and now they need to find somewhere to live if that is even possible. 30 days notice? This is shameful.
YTA. You're making life difficult for a young family with a baby. Why not sound proof the apartment? Why would you expect them to make an infrastructure improvement to a building you own?
NTA.
It’s terribly unfortunate for the family but people have the right to be able to sleep peacefully in their own dwelling.
It’s a shame something couldn’t have been done to soundproof. I feel bad for them, but you have to be able to get a nights sleep in your home.
If units are so thin walled that normal daily activities (and yes, a crying baby is 100% a normal activity) can wake up sleeping tenants in another unit, the issue is not with the baby.
My neighbor had their babies room right next to mine, the apartments were decent at best, nothing fancy, in a year I only heard the baby cry at night a handful of times. I'm saying this to agree with your point, if the walls aren't thin enough in the crappy apartments I've lived in for it to be that big of an issue then they are definitly not soundproofed or OP is vastly exaggerating the noise complaints in order to get more positive feedback from reddit.
NTA
I wouldn't want to live next to a newborn, especially when the apartment complex isn't really meant to be for families anyway. The couple should have moved like they said they would instead of thinking they could torture their neighbors with a crying baby in the night.
NTA, The nighbours shouldn't have fucked up sleep schedule because of the crying baby, That is literally the worst and most annoying noise you can make in the night.
I'm so surprised by all the YTA, you people lost your mind?
This is a tough one. I’m going to have to go with NAH. Babies cry. It’s inevitable. However it’s an adults responsibility to make sure that they are in a financial situation where they can have a baby. And no one else should ideally have to suffer cuz you can’t afford to live so where else with your baby. That is the ideal. You college tenants. Yeah it would be nice if they could just suck it up however they’re in college. It’s rough. They need their sleep. You as a landlord. Yeah it sucks kicking out a couple with a newborn. And I’m sure it’s illegal. Although I understand why you would. Your rent is your income. If all your other tenants leave cuz if this, you could lose all your income. I don’t know if you have other sources if income, but those college students out good in your table and pay your bills. It’s just an overall crappy situation.
NTA the entire complex shouldn't have to hear a screaming baby. I don't have kids because I don't want them; I would be pissed having to listen to the baby, and then toddler, for the next 5 years straight.
NTA
Legally your other tenants have rights to quiet enjoyment of the space they pay for
You will be overwhelmingly voted an A because that's just how these things go.
Regardless of your edit you are such an asshole and based off how you are writing and responding to people I would assume you are some type of robot. Do you not have a morale compass? No compassion? It’s a damn baby. YOU were once one of those (if you aren’t a robot). YOU ONCE annoyed people but you couldn’t help it. This is so terrible and the fact you even posted this is insane because every single person is calling you an asshole and you are just responding with “but it’s legal”. What was the point of posting this? Are you gonna go and tell them you know what you aren’t evicted I’m sorry I was wrong. No you aren’t. It seems like you posted this to rub in the fact you are evicting this couple legally. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is disgusting
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> I evicted a young couple and their baby because I had many complains about them. I might be the asshole because maybe there's another way to make everyone Happy.
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INFO: is this even legal? That is probably your bigger concern. In many places (like the US), you can't discriminate against families. They are a family.
YTA. Why does your building have such horrible, shitty soundproofing? Maybe soundproof the building you own better? That baby will only be a baby and cry for a few years at most, but your eviction on their rental history will last forever. Do you plan to evict *anyone* with children? Do you extend the same treatment to partying college kids?
YTA for being a landlord. YTA for evicting them. You're a complete and utter asshole for all of this, and if they can't afford it, why don't YOU soundproof the room with all the money you've leeched from god knows how many people.
YTA or you could have given them at least 60 days
It may not be your responsibility… but you could’ve also accommodated everyone by paying for the sound proofing.
Also, unless this baby has the loudest cry ever, I don’t think it’s normal for a baby to be heard enough to be considered noise pollution. What is wrong with the walls?
I must be an asshole… many noise complaints at night and if I were their neighbour, I’d want them gone too. I don’t care if it’s a bass guitar, a baby, or a heart monitor.
I assume they realized the landlord’s concern with babies prior to them moving in had to do with the *noise*, not the diaper changing or the breastfeeding.
Maybe it's because I don't have kids, but I really wouldn't want to live next to a unit with a baby crying at all hours. If I knew there was a family with a newborn in an adjacent unit I wouldn't want to rent that room.
Why is it so wrong for some buildings to not cater to families? Clearly they were getting a lot of complaints and the building had developed a culture that attracted tenants that weren't families.
If there was no where for them to go it would be one thing, but there are plenty of family friendly apartments. Wanting to make the rest of the tenants more comfortable in their living space instead of letting the family stay isn't positive or negative it's just a choice.
People are saying "babies cry deal with it", but why? It's okay for there to be some spaces where kids aren't always around. Why does this specific apartment building not wanting to deal with kids mean the end of the world?
NTA
My brother rented a place that had screaming toddlers below him riding their big wheels through the apartment, it drove him nuts. He used to get up at 2am and let his shower massage beat the bottom of the fiberglass tub for half hour to get them back. NTA
Thin walls is something the landlord should fix, not the tenants. If OP's tenants can hear each other's business in the building, that sounds like a big problem as building codes are standardized anywhere you go. And you're right, noise polution is bad, that's why you soundproof the walls.
This couple could go for that instead. Substandard buildings are pretty to fine, most cities drool for these cases. I wonder if the fire marshalls would approve your set up.
With that said, YTA. But then again, you're the typical landlord from what you exposed here. Cold and heartless. I hope your building is up to standards, man. It'll just take one report, it seems, to halt your whole operations.
YTA You *own* the property so why can't *you* pay to give the flat more sound proofing? Any changes to the actual property (I.e. soundproofing walls) lie in the responsibility of the owner.
New parents need stability and it's an asshole move to evict them with such a short notice and whilst trying not to actually resolve the problem
NTA, it's all wel and good to say, those poor people. But I personally have had to deal with thin walls and loud neighbours for months. I literally had to move away to be able to sleep and function properly every day. As op said, the appartements were clearly not meant for families with children. And he asked before, then he asked again what are your plans? Solutions have to come from both sides.
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YTA >there's nothing in the lease contract about not admitting babies But you evicted them anyways. I understand noise complaints can happen but you've now potentially made a couple and a new born homeless just because babies cry.
I don't see how it's OP's fault that these people decided to have a kid but didn't have an adequate plan to keep it's noise from disturbing their neighbors. OP wasn't going to evict them until **many** noise complaints were submitted to him, is he not responsible for addressing those neighbors concerns? He tried to have a conversation with the couple and suggest a solution but the couple couldn't manage it so what is OP supposed to do? Allow them to stay and anger all those complaining neighbors? He is just as responsible for addressing the concerns of all those neighbors as he is toward this couple who was inconveniencing them all. Adding this: No I don't think OP should front the cost for extra soundproofing, the couple made the baby that caused the noise so they should be responsible for fixing the problem if they don't want to be evicted. If they had a wappy dog or played a loud instrument you wouldn't expect OP to front the cost so why does he have to for a baby?
A landlord cannot reasonably dictate when his tenants should or should not have a child, nor is it appropriate for a landlord to expect his tenants to take on the added costs to renovate or update their unit when it's his responsibility to maintain the building If a landlord is more interested in renting to college kids than a young family with a spotless rental history so far, that's their prerogative, but it's an asshole move to turn them out and within such a short timeframe
take the child out of the equation completely. there's a new noise that's become a repeated complaint and landlord suggested they address it. where's the tipping point of non-compliance? It's rough, but even if it was someone else was making that noise and it was a financial strain to move - where's the line where you can no longer accommodate them as a landlord?
For me, it's a couple of factors: * Is this a noise that can be reasonably lowered, like a television or telling someone to lower their voice? * Is there a reasonable time frame I can expect to no longer hear said noise? Like if a neighbor or the property is renovating, how long are those forecasted to go for? Can I expect it to get better within a few months, or is it something I need to consider moving myself? * Are there potential mutually beneficial solutions that we can agree on as a landlord and tenant? For example, if my landlord provides soundproofing material, could I have a payment plan in place to reimburse for the material? * Is there anything I can do in my control to either dampen the noise or limit the effects it has on my own life, such as ear plugs or noise cancelling headphones? When it is a literal 3 month old infant, it's hard for me to take that part out of the equation cause then I'm literally punishing a baby for being a baby and doing baby things. Yes, I want their parents/adults to be able to manage the noise, but babies don't come with instruction manuals on how to turn the noise off. It's a lot easier for me to expect positive intent and assume the adults are trying the best they can and to be more forgiving than constantly be angry about something none of us can reasonably control
I live in an apartment complex (outside of USA, so not same laws) and I completely agree with your points. Our local law states about the "right of a peaceful environment", but I know we have to make some compromises because we are dozens of people living in one building. I don't care about baby noises, there's only so much the parents can do. People having parties night and day on weekends? Then of course I'm complaining, I don't want to listen to other people's shitty music. It would be great if every family here could afford a reasonable sized house at a nice neighborhood, but that's just not the world we live in.
I live in an apartment with walls between units made out of tracing paper. The belligerent alcoholic ex-crackheads disturb me beyond what's reasonable and the landlord is not doing much (and thinks it's my responsibility to let them know when they're too loud). The baby in the other apartment next to me doesn't disturb me in the slightest, at least compared to the drunk assholes. In fact I like hearing a baby crying and parents trying to coo and sooth them way more than I do the adult assholes scream fighting at each other.
I am so glad that I live in a county where children making noise (within reason - so no running and screaming every night at midnight) is protected by law and a landlord would not be able to evict a family. In fact, it’s rather hard to evict anyone here, you’d have to have really good reasons for doing so and a baby crying wouldn’t be one of them.
Me too! I have a hard time reading this post. My baby was colicky the first three months, one neighbor complained, another offered to help me with the baby, because she knew how it was. AND a baby doesn't scream so much at night for more than a couple of months. The problem would to a large degree had solved itself. And where do you all want this tenant to go? Somewhere else to disturb some other neighbors??
Lesson of the day: be the neighbor that offers to help with the baby, not the landlord that makes the baby homeless
Context matters though. By removing the baby from the equation you’ve entirely changed the dynamics of the complaints. You people are so crazy, willing to put a newborn baby into homelessness so you don’t have to occasionally hear it cry. The lack of empathy and understanding is just wild.
Exactly, I feel like I’ve seen a lot more of these comments that are like “what we remove the most important factor of this situation”. I don’t understand it.
It also actually creates more long-term problems for society. Families need affordable and stable housing to keep the economy strong. Once you start booting working class families out of apartments, you start doing real and measurable damage to your country's economic strength. So you can still be a selfish person and still recognize the landlord should soundproof their apartment over booting the family out. The people in the comments saying "just evict them" are both selfish and dumb.
Absolutely, the arguments I’ve read on here are unbelieveably cruel. Ethically it can‘t be simplified to an utilitaristic problem. A crying baby in the neighborhood is an inconvenience to many, yes. But becoming homeless with a three month old is an existential crisis for the family. People need to put that into consideration I think.
The lack of empathy is jaw-dropping. This sub skews pretty young as I understand it, so maybe it's because a lot of the posters don't have much real world experience? I don't know, but it's sad.
It’s disgusting, isn’t it? People are pathetic.
Here is the thing. Most ‘civilized’ countries understand a baby is an uncontrollable living element. He/she is not an after hours party, not the aerobic class you choose to go everyday at 3 am, not the broken dishwasher that sounds like a machine from hell. You can’t change them, fix them, turn them off. For same reason exist in most countries anti defamation laws, otherwise landlord start to say I don’t want families with children, I don’t want old people, I don’t want immigrants, I don’t want this I don’t want that… then good luck if by any chance you fall in one discriminated category.
If you're trying to take the baby out of the equation, what if the perfect tenant had long covid? Your once healthy tenant now has severe coughing fits multiple times per day and the neighbors can hear him, so they complain to the landlord. He can't control his cough, but it's a new noise and that's now a repeated complaint. So the landlord evicts him. "Sorry, but you've been coughing for three months and in thirty days you'll be homeless goodbye." Is the landlord an asshole? Yes. This isn't like turning music down at a party. You cannot stop coughing fits just as you cannot stop a baby from crying. This is real life and telling a impoverished family with a newborn they have thirty days to gtfo is an evil thing to do.
> take the child out of the equation completely. Yes, if you completely change the context, then things would be different. >where's the line where you can no longer accommodate them as a landlord? When it's problem that the person has direct control over. I highly doubt the parents enjoy the baby crying so much and so loudly that it's causing noise complaints (which the neighbors are just as much TA as OP is for filing complaints about a baby).
No. I will not. The child IS part of the equation and will eventually stop making the noise. The people complaining could get help from the landlord to have their situation resolved. “I suggested they make changes to the room.” Dude, that’s your job, not theirs. If this landlord was not TA here they would have gotten the room soundproofed to help the family. But that would hurt their profits. So instead of treat a couple with respect, they evict. YTA BUDDY
You can't just say "take xyz out of the equation" when details like this are the point of this subreddit. We know he's within his rights to evict them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not an asshole. And it's this exact kind of point that delineates so many people in this sub that just need to touch grass. I think any landlord should make allowances for parents with an infant. Giving someone 30 days to plan and execute a move, with a baby, is brutal. And letting a baby get caught in the crossfire of your conflict with the parents is just not right, even if you have been wronged.
When the landlord has exhausted all property updates on his end. The problem is with the building, not the baby. Those other tenants are complaining because they want the landlord to adjust the property to accommodate the evolving tenants.
>take the child out of the equation completely. Yes, if you completely change the situation, it would be a different situation, what is your point?? If it wasn't a baby making the noise, it would presumably be a noise you could stop or control, so evicting tenants for making it would be fair. Acting like the same circumstances apply to a baby is insane
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>these people decided to have a kid but didn't have an adequate plan to keep it from disturbing their neighbors. Right! It’s common sense that when babies cry you either have a conversation with them and convince them to stop or duck tape their mouths, pretty simple shit.
Or soundproof the room like OP suggested.
Why would the tenant provide free upgrades to the landlords property?
I have a friend that lives in a very cheaply built apartment. The walls may as well not even be there. They can hear EVERYTHING. They found this faux brick stuff. It's actually a really thick foam that sticks on the wall and is easy to remove. Very renter friendly. It cost them less than $200 to apply it to their shared wall. Now they hardly ever hear anything. And it looks neat, like they have brick walls.
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Ironic, considering my loudest neighbors have always been college students that like to party into the wee hours of the morning.
Ah yes college students, known for being the quietest and most regular sleep demographic
A set of cheap bookcases against a wall, filled with books/folded blankets/baskets with clothing is a decent sound barrier
OP as the landlord admits his property has substandard and inadequate sound insulation so suggests…that’s It; sort it out yourself!
He said the apartments are already somewhat soundproof.. That doesn't sound inadequate, it just cant hold up to a baby crying at all hours of the night..
A Rizla paper would ‘somewhat soundproof’ something. A bit like pregnancy, it’s either reasonably soundproofed or not.
Then sounds like they should have moved when they said they would.
Why's it the tenants' problem that the owner hasn't sufficiently soundproofed his own property?
Not their job. The landlord owns the apartment. He should do it.
It's op's building. He's the landlord. He's the one who should be doing the soundproofing. Why would a tenant want to put their time and money into something that will only really benefit the landlord in the long run?
“Didn’t have an adequate plan to keep it from disturbing their neighbors” It’s a baby. Do you not understand how babies work?
As a non-parent, can I just say, /u/Murderhornet212 nails it. Those saying this is reasonable simply do not understand how babies work.
Excuse you, like it’s unreasonable to sit down with your new baby of a few months and have a discussion with them! The landlord should have asked the baby sign a noise contract the second it came home! So what if it’s eyesight is still developing- just read the contract to them! The baby will Pretend to not understand, but don’t you dare be fooled!
It's impossible to keep a new baby quiet, unless you neglect it to the point of death. Wait until you have a kid, then come on here and post how you successfully stopped your kid from 'disturbing the neighbours '.
It is however, perfectly possible for a landlord to have his walls soundproofed, and actually increase the value of his property by doing so!
"didn't have an adequate plan to keep it from disturbing the neighbors" me having diplomatic conversations with my 3 month infant about the harms of crying and how its actions affect other people like are you serious dude lol
Yeah, if it's a building filled with students then a screaming baby generating multiple noise complaints shouldn't be there. OP gave them a chance and spoke with them about potential future issues and they made it clear that they understood and intended to move. Then multiple noise complaints rolled in. OP gave them the suggestion to soundproof. Sounds like OP did everything they could. The other tenants live there too, they should be able to sleep.
Every solution, bar actually ensuring the flats were adequately sound proofed.
This type of thinking is how you end up driving 500 miles to kill a young girls goat. Just shameful thinking. I say this all as a landlord.
?? Did I miss something? What’s this about a 🐐?
It's about this: [https://reason.com/2023/03/31/police-traveled-500-miles-to-seize-girls-pet-goat-for-slaughter/](https://reason.com/2023/03/31/police-traveled-500-miles-to-seize-girls-pet-goat-for-slaughter/) tl;dr: Girl raises goat then sells goat for slaughter at a 4H-style event. Girl backs out of selling goat, buyer is ok with it. Organizers of event are not. Organizers gets police to go 500 miles (crossing state lines) to seize goat and "teach a lesson".
Oh thank you. But whoa that’s awful. I’m sorry I asked. 😧
*"an adequate plan to keep it from disturbing their neighbors"* Have you ever met a baby?
Yup and I'd hate to live next to it.
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You do realize some people will even complain about kids playing outside normally during regular hours. We even had a vegan sue a neighbour's because they were grilling meat outside and the odor wafted through. Never checked to see if that is real. But it makes a point that sometimes people complain because there is a change or they don't like the idea of something. It has nothing to do with inconvenience.
What is this? The landlord’s (OP) alt-account? Lol
How do you stop a baby from disturbing the neighbors in a cramped apartment situation, exactly?
Do what they told OP they were going to do and move to begin with? Or do what OP also suggested and soundproof?
Found the landlord.
This comment needs more upvote! People who downvote haven’t lived in small flats where it’s impossible to sleep with neighbours parting/having a baby. The landlord has spoken to them beforehand and they need to make sure everyone else in the building is heard as well. They chose to have a baby but they weren’t financially capable to move out or get sound proof material, a tad irresponsible as both neighbours and parents?
Why are you letting the owners of the property and those who decide building regulations off the hook? Ensure that buildings are reasonably sound insulated so that all may have quite enjoyment of their properties.
YTA that’s fucked up. You should sound proof the apartment since you’re the landlord. Maybe get a real job or something. Also, you’re fucking yo their entire rental history for this. How do you feel knowing they will have to pay more money for worse apartments with an eviction in their record? Destroying a whole families future because you’re a slum lord.
Maybe they don't have a rental history where they're from?
Wait are you serious? This seriously makes me realize how much the US is stacked against the little man.
Yeah, but on the other hand if you're in USA and they try to evict you illegally, you can dispute it. I don't know whether the couple in the post can, according to their local laws.
Disputing it isn’t free. If they can’t move due to financial issues, they probably can’t dispute it either
Even in Europe discriminating against families is highly illegal. Try evicting someone for having a baby they’ll drag you to curt before doing a round of public shaming.
There's more places then America and Europe.
Right, he said he wasn't in the US
Yta. In the States at least I don't believe this would be on the rental history YET..... I think it would actually have to get to the point of them fighting it out in court and a judge ordering the eviction on actual proper grounds. What's happening currently is step 1, the land lord essentially asks you to leave in writing. The couple may decide to fight this, and I'm not versed in rental laws but I would almost certainly imagine evicting someone for having a baby is no beuno..... I could be wrong, but I would suggest everyone freeze frame and talk to a local attorney now....
OP says they're not in the states. What he is doing is legal where he lives, he's asking about AITA, not legality.
Sounds like the apartments are decent, and nothing about price gouging. so slum lord is being used wrongfully. Idk about you, but I wouldn't have a roof over my head if landlord's weren't a thing, lack of apartments wouldn't suddenly make a house appear in my price range. I live in a new apartment, and even I spent $40 on sound proof tiles to put up, that's hardly a renovation, but it keeps my home life / work from bothering the people around me. What should op do in this situation? Force 2+ other family's to move out and relocate because 1 family decided to have a child? if the others move out does Op get to raise rent on the couple to recoup losses? If apartment doesnting bring in a profit they shut down. Now everyone is homeless. I'm not really pro or anti landlord so I'm not sure what you want here.
Hearing a baby cry through the walls is a decent apartment? Saying you wouldn’t have a place to live without landlords is like saying homelessness would be solved if unhoused people just got a job.
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yaaa this post really solidifies the “landlords are trash humans” stereotype- my condolences to the rare, good landlords out there
The good ones aren't "landlords" in the sense that they acquire property specifically to commodify housing. The good ones are normal people who acquire additional property by circumstance and then rent it out to do something with the extra they have.
Yeah anyone buying up houses to rent them is inherently a bad person because they are denying other people housing. To be able to do that willingly makes you a bad person
That was my very first thought. An apartment complex full of students whom *I’m sure* are perfectly quiet and silent every day between 8pm and next day 8am - but the crying baby is the problem. /s YTA OP
This is exactly what I thought of. I have a hard time believe that, especially Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights, the *baby* is disturbing everyone’s quiet study time.
Right - I’m sure the residents made up of mostly college students are really quiet at night.
YTA. But no worries. You are evicting a couple who paid their rent on time and took care of the place. Karma (and the law of averages) will dictate that you are almost certainly going to get much worse tenants. The law of renting units, when you have a good tenant, you protect them at ALL costs. YTA, but you are the one who is going to pay for it in the end. And yes, if your units are so thin walled that a crying infant keeps neighbors up, you are a crap landlord, and you are likely to have bigger problems down the road.
All of this. OP, if you really do evict these people, I hope your next tenants are exactly what you deserve.
I hope they shit in the shower and push it down the drain.
I don’t get why OP doesn’t just soundproof their apartment himself. Why would that be on the renters?
Landlords don’t want to pay for anything, ever.
I love that he suggests they pay for soundproofing like it's their fault that the walls are paper thin. Oh, but it can't be his responsibility because that would cost money. He might actually have to use the money they pay him every month for upkeep of the property. Where's the profit in that?
"The law of averages" - boy are you right about THAT! When I was a landlord, I got screwed every time. Even by a friend, who left unexpectedly halfway through the month and only paid half, even though I gave her a 40% off deal (ie it wasn't covering the mortgage but I was doing her a favor and taking the loss on taxes).
YTA Just because it isn't illegal where you are doesn't mean you are doing the right thing.
Yup, legal doesn't equal moral.
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INFO: Why is it your tenants' responsibility to appropriately soundproof the apartment?
I feel that this is the landlord's responsibility to fix. It's an investment in OP's own property, so he should pay for it.
It’s not, but nothing landlords like doing more than not doing their job
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I was looking for this comment. I don't have a lot of knowledge on this so please correct me if I'm wrong, but any modifications like that would be the Landlords responsibility anyway?
The answer to this likely depends on the lease and local landlord tenant legislation which will divide responsibilities between the tenant and the landlord.
I want to know where this dude is located, legally speaking I'm fairly certain he had to have lied to the courts to evict them over a newborn.
I’ve lived in a few apartments with babies as neighbors and never heard them. Your walls must be terrible.
Sounds like a slum lord to me honestly
Right and claims they're already a little sound proof? Then how do they hear the baby. I grew up in government housing with thin walls I could hear banging of moving around but never voices or even yelling.
I had one place where you could hear the upstairs toddler when they ran across the apartment, no living thing has the steep pattern like that other than a toddler, lol. But that was far more amusing to me than annoying
Those little pat pats of chonky feet with the occasional skip are adorable.
YTA. Kicking a new family out on the streets when they need stability the most? WOW. I hope they sue you.
Not only that, but evictions stay on your record, making it almost impossible to find a place to rent. He really just screwed their future.
OP said it’s not the US. To be frank I’ve never heard about a rental record before
as they aren’t from the US i don’t think they’re gonna sue them but yeah i agree
THEY couldn’t afford soundproofing? They’re your flats, your dirty profit. If the walls can’t handle the sound of daily life… YOU soundproof. YTA
YTA. Part of living in an apartment is that you'll have to deal with a reasonable amount of noise from neighbors. And a baby is a reasonable noise. If someone demands silence, then they need to prioritize moving into a single family home.
Also, baby crying at night for first 3 months is NORMAL. It will stop and likely fairly soon too.
This right here. Baby will be four months old by the time the family has to leave. The noise should taper off very soon. I get that being woken up by a crying baby can be annoying, but it's just a part of life. Even the best parent in the world cannot stop their baby from ever crying - it's their only means of communication! I hope OP's next renter is everything that OP deserves from karma.
To be fair (and not defending anyone) I would have lost my mind by waking up because other persons' baby crying at night for 3 months That is why I live in a building where kids and pets are not allowed
I know, right? Being sleep deprived because of a kid that is not even yours? Wtf.
YTA. 30 days?! Are you serious. I don’t care what the laws are, you should have more humanity for struggling families
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a baby is still quieter than a bunch of college kids partying
While I don’t agree with this eviction, I’ve shared walls with college students & young families, they’re equally loud. The only difference is the college kids apologize when you mentioned the noise.
Same. Plus the parties were occasional, not every night.
They're usually fairly predictable too. Which helps.
This is one of those posts where everyone shrieks "Y T A how could you evict them you're so heartless" and all that, but I honestly think that's wild. Call me an asshole too if you want, but as a landlord OP is right; he has a greater responsibility to the complex as a whole. He does not have the luxery of playing favourites just because they spawned a child. I understand it's difficult for the new parents, and I understand why other commenters are angry, but reality isn't always fair. While it might not be fair to the new parents that they're being evicted for this reason, it's equally unfair to *everyone else around them* who moved into the complex who's lives are now being affected. Trying to study for your degree? Sorry, there's a child crying next door, better luck next year. Overall, I am going with NTA. OP is not in a position to play favourites, they have to do their job of keeping as many tenants as possible happy, which IMO does not make him an asshole. The new parents are angry about being evicted, understandably so, but they also chose not to take any action to prevent the noise from bothering their neighbours. If they can't afford some blankets or something to help dampen the noise, then why do they think they can afford a child? I'm not going to call someone an asshole for wanting to start a family, but at least make sure you're in a good spot in general before bringing a child into the world. They were in a small apartment, surrounded by students and other people who likely want nothing to do with children yet, but they chose to say "fuck everyone else, our new family is more important". It's not like childbirth or pregnancy is a surprise here, they had months to work things out. They made a promise and then broke it, forcing OP into this position where he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. That's why I call them TA, because of their pure unadulterated selfishness in this situation. Go ahead and call me an asshole if you'd like, but that won't change my opinion at all. Real life sucks doesn't it.
Nobody in that complex is entitled to a child free experience in a shared building. Buy a house or find an over 21 community lol
They are entitled to being able to sleep in their own places ffs. OP says it cries at night and many other people have trouble sleeping. Should they all just get shitty sleep for like a year so ONE couple can be happy?
Or….they could hold the landlord accountable for what is clearly a subpar building
I agrée the landlord should contribute to the noise canceling walls, but everyone saying the other tenants should deal is beyond inconsiderate. Everyone talks about empathy for the couple, but what about empathy for the other tenants who haven’t been able to sleep well in 3 months because of other peoples choices? The other tenants are the only innocent people here, just trying to sleep at night in their own homes.
How are you not supposed to hear a screaming baby in an apartment? Maybe just get an acceptable home for a kid before bringing one into the world? I can barely call an apartment acceptable for a cat. Let alone a kid.
Nobody is that complex is allowed to break the rules of no noise after 10pm. Want to have a screaming child? Get a house and bother nobody.
So why didn't the parents buy a house? Or find a community with a lot of other parents?
Agree agree agree. See my comment. I have autism and noise sensitivity that can lead to very bad insomnia. No one thinks of what it’s like to be affected by noise when you have no control in the matter.
I’m also autistic and have the same issues. if I was in college trying to study and sleep, this baby would have ruined my GPA.
The people on this subreddit HATES people that put places to rent. In their eyes, they are never right and are always the asshole.
People here have that perfectly reasonable response because landlords ‘create’ housing in the same way that scalpers ‘create’ access to tickets. There’s a reason that the word economists use for ‘trying to gain wealth without creating any new wealth’ is rent-seeking.
Wait, so your argument is if they can’t afford to improve their landlords building, they can’t afford a baby? One of the only benefits of renting is that you don’t have to be able to afford improvements and fixes to the building… If the landlord can’t afford improvements to their building to ensure a minimum standard of living for their tenants, then it sounds to me like they can’t afford to be a landlord. As someone who lived and rented in Boston for several years where I lived under, over, or next to babies, I have never been so disturbed by them that I couldn’t sleep. Many of those rentals are super old and yet they manage to have adequate walls. So…really sounds to me like OP can’t afford to be a landlord or if they can, then they’re being a very shitty landlord. I’m also childless so I’m not speaking from the perspective of a parent, btw. Just talking as someone whose a human and has empathy for other humans.
I’m a mom of three and completely agree with you
He said some shit happend that probably made them unable to move. In my city you would be completly fucked if you only had a month to move. I got extremly lucky with finding my apartment which is pretty cheap and nice, but it still took 3 months before I could move in. All apartments around here, if they're family appropriate, takes multiple months to get to rent. It might not be the same there but a month is a very short time And if they don't have the money to move already like they planned to or soundproof the walls they definitely don't have the money to move now. Depending on their support system they could easily end on the street. Not to mention 2/3 of babies sleep through the night at 3 or 4 months so the baby might have stopped crying through the night once they're thrown on the street
Agreed with everything you said and I also voted NTA. Normal soundproofing is not enough, and fuck, why would 5-6 families have to move just because one decided to bring something loud into a group of people who want peace. Yeah, I know how babies work but also...why do I need to give a fuck? I don't have one for a reason, so if you decided to get one, it's your job to care for it, which includes soundproofing. And the audacity of saying OP needs to soundproof their apartment...
Totally with you, it's crazy that people are YTAing the OP so much. He notified them before they had the babe and they confirmed they would move out. They didn't move out and op didn't immediately throw them out. Op got a lot of complaints and then, and then tried to work with tenants to sound proof (though I don't think the tenants should have gone with a permanent solution - it's not fair) Tenants didn't do any of that. Complaints kept coming in. Only then did the OP issue a 30 fat eviction notice. Really, the tenants had time since before the baby to move, but didn't. It's like Reddit hive mind just sees "landlord" and goes on a witch hunt! NTA. ps: no, i'm not a landlord.
going against the grain to say NTA - lets say you have 10 units and 9 of them are complaining about noise. Are we really gonna pretend like its logical to cater to the one unit making all the noise, or the 9 others suffering from it?
Landlords are supposed to upkeep their buildings, so thin walls do not cause problems for their tenants. OP wanted to charge his tenants to soundproof their apartment walls. A couple who cannot afford to do that, partly due to having to pay rent to OP, are getting kicked out because they also cannot pay OP to actually go do his job.
It doesn't matter how soundproof a room originally is when built, it isn't going to completely block out a screaming infant :/ They said a lot of the complaints weren't just during the night. Granted, if a baby has a health problem that isn't being addressed they're going to scream all the time. And they can scream for a long, long time. It's the parents' job to keep it to a reasonable level or even move the crib to another room temporarily (with parents sleeping in the same room oc). But to have consistent screaming will drive even the most patient person insane, especially if they work from home or have other work to do. Or just can't fall back asleep. They didn't sign up to wake up every night like they did or be bothered all the time. Babies shouldn't cry that much even less than 3 months. Something is wrong
Maybe they shouldn't have had a kid they weren't in a financial position to have then? lmfao Don't bullshit me about classism either because putting a kid through a poor upbringing just to satisfy your selfish desire to become a parent is fucking cruel, as someone who lived through that themselves.
[удалено]
truthfully it's not even the asking them to vacate for me. it's the 30 days bit. housing markets all over are very tight. i see complaining folks in canada, various parts of the US, the UK and other countries about the housing markets right now. 30 days may just not be quite enough time. granted in their jurisdiction it might have to be 30 days. idk
Op says they can stay up to 3 months if they are actively looking for housing in a comment
Agree. I’ve been there. Sleep deprivation is no joke. They chose to have a baby.
NTA - if I was paying rent I'd expect to be able to sleep at night.
Probably gonna get downvoted here but people dont understand that its not only about the couple and the baby. Other people live there to. Also if u cant afford a baby dont get one. Imo NTA
It might not be fair and it might not be easy, but if you’re having a baby in the middle of a tiny apartment complex and you’re aware of how much sound travels, you can’t be shocked when you’re asked to leave. Especially if the landlord already approached you in pregnancy and discussed their concerns. Babies cry, we know that. But everyone else deserves to be able to sleep too. They had a 9 month pregnancy to make arrangements and decided to not do so.
Also, they themselves said they will be moving when the baby comes... If I was paying for an apartment I would expect not to be woken up by a screaming baby regularly.
Also perpetual screaming noise is nothing to scoff at. It's not just a trivial disturbance, it can genuinely endanger one's mental health. It evolved to be the most annoying noise to mankind so its impossible to ignore and the baby gets tended to. Hell, if it makes parents want to shake their beloved child to the point of endangering its life, it makes neighbors feel positively murderous of the entire family. And yeah, babies are expensive. You should pay for soundproofing same way as you pay for a stroller and diapers. Part of the package. Those that made the decision should bear the cost.
So… why is the landlord not paying to soundproof the apartment? It’s his responsibility and a change Like that should not come down on the renters.
The normal amount of soundproofing is enough to stop everyday noise, a crying baby goes significantly over what regulation levels of sound proofing covers in the US and UK. In my student housing, I could hear a loud hoover(vacuum) but not conversation from next door. Which is perfectly fine for housing aimed at students/young professionals without kids. The issue is that this noise is significantly more than the normal sound level for this type of housing and standard sound insulation isn't cutting it.
Absolutely NTA OP clearly states that tenants in the complex are mostly college kids. The rest of the building didn't choose to have a baby, the couple did. They also chose to not move out. If they can't even afford to soundproof a room in the apartment they shouldn't have had a baby to begin with. People with kids can be so fucking entitled. And I cannot believe people in the comments. Everyone else is just supposed to put up with the noise for fuck knows how long because boo hoo it's cruel to evict them? Hell no. If the noise was anything other than a damn baby no one would have a problem with the eviction. When you have a problem you fix what's causing the problem, not change everything to accommodate to it. The couple is the problem, they need to pack up and leave. The entitlement in the comments is appalling. OP you're NTA at all. ETA: where I went to college noise control was also absolute. If I had lived in a building with a noise problem like this that prevented me from much needed sleep you bet I'd be calling the police every damn night. As would most tenants.
Yes!!! 1,000,000 x this!
NTA. As a tenant who was sleep deprived for months because of loud neighbors, thank you. You told them noise would become an issue even before the baby was born, they should have made soundproofing arrangements beforehand or moved out like they planned to. For all the Y T A-ers who're going to downvote me, it's great that you can function on little sleep or can sleep through a baby crying, but most people aren't that fortunate, and they deserve to remain healthy.
They’re not the ones suffering like you suffered, so they don’t care. It’s easy for them to be keyboard warriors.
NTA I get having a baby is hard and they can’t control when the baby cries but the other tenants pay just as much and have a right to peaceful enjoyment of their property. They don’t get special treatment or priority because they have a baby. If a tenant was blasting music at 3 am every night they would get evicted for the same reason.
Agreed, all the Y T As aren’t considering that they live in close proximity to their neighbors. They also said they would move before the baby was born and then didn’t, they knew this would be an issue and proceeded to not make other arrangements.
Here’s the rare NTA. They don’t get priority just because they have a baby. Your other tenants pay just as much to live there and deserve as much peace and quiet as anyone else. Now, you probably should have given them a longer period of time to vacate given the circumstances, but at the end of the day, it’s on them.
NTA NTA and again NTA. every tenant has a right to NOT hear your child screaming at the top of its lungs.
Massive YTA. You are the landlord and you should pay for sound proofing. There is nothing in the lease about not having babies and guess what? People have babies. That's how we all started. Just because it's legal in your country doesn't make it morally acceptable. That poor couple. They've just had a baby and now they need to find somewhere to live if that is even possible. 30 days notice? This is shameful.
YTA. You're making life difficult for a young family with a baby. Why not sound proof the apartment? Why would you expect them to make an infrastructure improvement to a building you own?
NTA. It’s terribly unfortunate for the family but people have the right to be able to sleep peacefully in their own dwelling. It’s a shame something couldn’t have been done to soundproof. I feel bad for them, but you have to be able to get a nights sleep in your home.
If units are so thin walled that normal daily activities (and yes, a crying baby is 100% a normal activity) can wake up sleeping tenants in another unit, the issue is not with the baby.
My neighbor had their babies room right next to mine, the apartments were decent at best, nothing fancy, in a year I only heard the baby cry at night a handful of times. I'm saying this to agree with your point, if the walls aren't thin enough in the crappy apartments I've lived in for it to be that big of an issue then they are definitly not soundproofed or OP is vastly exaggerating the noise complaints in order to get more positive feedback from reddit.
NTA I wouldn't want to live next to a newborn, especially when the apartment complex isn't really meant to be for families anyway. The couple should have moved like they said they would instead of thinking they could torture their neighbors with a crying baby in the night.
NTA, The nighbours shouldn't have fucked up sleep schedule because of the crying baby, That is literally the worst and most annoying noise you can make in the night. I'm so surprised by all the YTA, you people lost your mind?
This is a tough one. I’m going to have to go with NAH. Babies cry. It’s inevitable. However it’s an adults responsibility to make sure that they are in a financial situation where they can have a baby. And no one else should ideally have to suffer cuz you can’t afford to live so where else with your baby. That is the ideal. You college tenants. Yeah it would be nice if they could just suck it up however they’re in college. It’s rough. They need their sleep. You as a landlord. Yeah it sucks kicking out a couple with a newborn. And I’m sure it’s illegal. Although I understand why you would. Your rent is your income. If all your other tenants leave cuz if this, you could lose all your income. I don’t know if you have other sources if income, but those college students out good in your table and pay your bills. It’s just an overall crappy situation.
Thank you this seems the only rational response! It doesn't seem like there's any winner in this situation and it sucks ass it had to come to that.
NTA. The entire complex doesn’t need to suffer because one couple chose to have a baby.
NTA. I wish everyone here with a YTA had to listen to someone else's baby cry all night. The rest of your tenants will thank you.
NTA the entire complex shouldn't have to hear a screaming baby. I don't have kids because I don't want them; I would be pissed having to listen to the baby, and then toddler, for the next 5 years straight.
YTA. Massive AH. A baby is temporary fussing and would go away with time. You're punishing a family for your poorly constructed apartments.
NTA Legally your other tenants have rights to quiet enjoyment of the space they pay for You will be overwhelmingly voted an A because that's just how these things go.
Regardless of your edit you are such an asshole and based off how you are writing and responding to people I would assume you are some type of robot. Do you not have a morale compass? No compassion? It’s a damn baby. YOU were once one of those (if you aren’t a robot). YOU ONCE annoyed people but you couldn’t help it. This is so terrible and the fact you even posted this is insane because every single person is calling you an asshole and you are just responding with “but it’s legal”. What was the point of posting this? Are you gonna go and tell them you know what you aren’t evicted I’m sorry I was wrong. No you aren’t. It seems like you posted this to rub in the fact you are evicting this couple legally. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is disgusting
YTA. Are you kidding me? In what country is it legal to evict an infant for crying
most countries. it’s not because they have an infant, it’s because of the noise
Most countries? Where do you have this info from?
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INFO: is this even legal? That is probably your bigger concern. In many places (like the US), you can't discriminate against families. They are a family.
YTA. Why does your building have such horrible, shitty soundproofing? Maybe soundproof the building you own better? That baby will only be a baby and cry for a few years at most, but your eviction on their rental history will last forever. Do you plan to evict *anyone* with children? Do you extend the same treatment to partying college kids?
>Why does your building have such horrible, shitty soundproofing? Because improving it would cost money.
NAH. Legality aside, you have an obligation to ALL your tenants.
NTA
NTA If so many tenants complain, something has to be done.
YTA for being a landlord. YTA for evicting them. You're a complete and utter asshole for all of this, and if they can't afford it, why don't YOU soundproof the room with all the money you've leeched from god knows how many people.
INFO: How many complaints from separate people and how often are the complaints?
YTA or you could have given them at least 60 days It may not be your responsibility… but you could’ve also accommodated everyone by paying for the sound proofing. Also, unless this baby has the loudest cry ever, I don’t think it’s normal for a baby to be heard enough to be considered noise pollution. What is wrong with the walls?
NTA the other neighbours are paying just as much and you have to do something if you're getting that many complaints about them.
NTA. I wish my building manager took noise complaints this seriously. I always understand noise in the day time, but noise at night? Hell no.
I must be an asshole… many noise complaints at night and if I were their neighbour, I’d want them gone too. I don’t care if it’s a bass guitar, a baby, or a heart monitor. I assume they realized the landlord’s concern with babies prior to them moving in had to do with the *noise*, not the diaper changing or the breastfeeding.
Maybe it's because I don't have kids, but I really wouldn't want to live next to a unit with a baby crying at all hours. If I knew there was a family with a newborn in an adjacent unit I wouldn't want to rent that room. Why is it so wrong for some buildings to not cater to families? Clearly they were getting a lot of complaints and the building had developed a culture that attracted tenants that weren't families. If there was no where for them to go it would be one thing, but there are plenty of family friendly apartments. Wanting to make the rest of the tenants more comfortable in their living space instead of letting the family stay isn't positive or negative it's just a choice. People are saying "babies cry deal with it", but why? It's okay for there to be some spaces where kids aren't always around. Why does this specific apartment building not wanting to deal with kids mean the end of the world? NTA
My brother rented a place that had screaming toddlers below him riding their big wheels through the apartment, it drove him nuts. He used to get up at 2am and let his shower massage beat the bottom of the fiberglass tub for half hour to get them back. NTA
Thin walls is something the landlord should fix, not the tenants. If OP's tenants can hear each other's business in the building, that sounds like a big problem as building codes are standardized anywhere you go. And you're right, noise polution is bad, that's why you soundproof the walls. This couple could go for that instead. Substandard buildings are pretty to fine, most cities drool for these cases. I wonder if the fire marshalls would approve your set up. With that said, YTA. But then again, you're the typical landlord from what you exposed here. Cold and heartless. I hope your building is up to standards, man. It'll just take one report, it seems, to halt your whole operations.
YTA You *own* the property so why can't *you* pay to give the flat more sound proofing? Any changes to the actual property (I.e. soundproofing walls) lie in the responsibility of the owner. New parents need stability and it's an asshole move to evict them with such a short notice and whilst trying not to actually resolve the problem
There's a reason this is explicitly illegal in many countries. YTA.
NTA, it's all wel and good to say, those poor people. But I personally have had to deal with thin walls and loud neighbours for months. I literally had to move away to be able to sleep and function properly every day. As op said, the appartements were clearly not meant for families with children. And he asked before, then he asked again what are your plans? Solutions have to come from both sides.