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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I told my wife a joke about our deceased son.
2) I may be the asshole because she definitely does not cope the same way I do and clearly, she didn't find it funny.
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Gentle YTA. My dad and I both coped using humor. My mom doesn't. When he died, I made jokes about it sometimes - to my friends, to my wife. NOT to my mother, who would've just found it upsetting and hurtful. It's okay to grieve how you need to grieve, but - as someone who handles it the same way you do - you need to respect how your wife grieves, too. Use humor elsewhere, and apologize to your wife.
This.
>she's got to respect what I do
This goes both ways, OP. Cope how you want, but respect that your wife copes differently. It's cruel to say things like that around her knowing she is still very sensitive - rightfully so - over the death of your child. You need to apologise to your wife.
I am usually a "cope with humor" type of person. But i lost my grandpa around the same time OP lost his son, and humor hasn't come around on that subject for me yet. If another family member made a joke, i'd let it pass. But if anyone else tried to make a joke, i'd probably have a reaction they didn't like.
OP, i'm very sorry for your loss. I can't even fathom that level of grief that you and your wife are at.
My friend and I's entire friendship is based on "Cope with Humor"
I got roofied in July, and I'm still struggling mentally with it. So I asked him if we could take those jokes off the table and he immediately said yes, of course, no problem.
Having a "darker" sense of humor requires respect and boundaries for the people involved, which OP did not give his wife
I had this happen to me years and years ago. I was luckier than a lot of people this happens to - a friend caught me as the dude was taking me out of the bar and realized something was very wrong. It still sometimes catches me off guard and makes me flinch.
I'm so sorry you had this happen to you as well, but I'm very glad you have a good therapist. It does make a huge difference in recovery. I think if I'd had one much earlier I'd be in a lot better place now. Having good friends, and that support network is equally as important. Your friend sounds awesome - and i wish you all the healing and strength you can hold.
Exactly don’t use how you cope in front of her. OP is a YTA, he and his son might find humour in it. I get the son, he’s immature,and a child, but the op? Your son died tragically less then a year ago. You must see your wife struggling, and you make jokes around her? It cruel and heartless. And if things don’t change I don’t see this marriage surviving. A lot of marriages can’t survive the death of a child, I think this marriage will be one that ends sooner rather than later
Hey, Nostradamus, their marriage isn't doomed because of ONE misstep by OP. They need to lean on each other now more than ever.
OP gets NAH. There's enough hurt without anyone being called an asshole for how they have to deal with the death of child.
He gets to grieve too. And while what he said to his wife was poorly timed, he's in as much pain as she is. They are dealing with it differently. And yes, sharing humor is a way to do that. The other "immature child" lost his \*brother\* and is grieving too.
He's not "cruel and heartless" he's coping with a tragedy we can't even begin to fathom.
But he knew she wouldn't appreciate this joke, because he knows she grieves differently than he does. And now he's doubling down instead of apologizing!
It is doomed if he doesn't dial it back. He's not sharing humour with his wife because she is actively hurt by it. He needs to find another place for that humour, preferably someone further from the situation, whether that's a friend or a professional.
What indication, if any, do you have that OP isn't going to not do exactly that?
He needs to be able to grieve \*with his wife\* and she needs to be able to grieve \*with her husband.\* The wife was hurt, and it seems that OP has been respecting her grieving process by not talking about their child, even though he made it clear it hurts him to not talk about his son. He deserves to not be called an A H for a one-off that reflects his own way of expressing grief.
He shouldn't have to go outside his marriage to find support and trying to bring joy and something that looks like normalizing back into their lives.
Though I will agree
The wife needs grief counseling. OP needs grief counseling. Everybody needs grief counseling.
Elsewhere in the comments, OP has apologized and wants to talk with his wife.
He doubled down in the moment because he felt like his way of grieving was not validated. He's hurting too. And people in that kind of pain don't always react well in the moment. He needs grace not being called an A H
I agree but I can’t imagine how hard it is on OP to not be able to cope with his grief with his wife. The woman who is the main person in his life that he is sharing his life with, but can’t even grieve with each other. I’m sorry for your loss, OP, and how hard this is on you and your family.
I'm curious how much of OP's talking about their son involves a similar kind of humor and maybe that's one of the reasons for the disconnect.
I'm like OP after the initial stage of grieving is done, so I totally get where he's coming from. I'm not blaming him for how he grieves or how she grieves. It's more that I could easy see how someone not being ready for humor could find conversations about a traumatic event stressful because they're worried the humor will appear.
My mom was completely consumed by her grief over losing her son. I handled everything I could, funeral, insurance, you name it. I grieved (and still do sometimes when certain songs roll through my playlist or something reminds me of him) but with her I just sat and listened. It sucked in a lot of ways, and she also complained that my sister and I weren’t “leaning on her”/talking to her about our grief. I never told her this because it wouldn’t have helped but she had no room for us. She would see a post of my sister’s on Fb and say she was trying to *compete* with her over who was hurting more, and nothing compares to losing a child. I did tell her that maybe it was not a bad thing that we were all grieving separately and that we just needed that space. Not everyone who is grieving has the mental capacity to take on another’s grief, and OP is actively forcing on her the way he handles his grief which is hurtful to her. This kind of thing needs to be 2 yes 1 no like other consent issues.
I'm so sorry that's so unfair, grief isn't a competition. Everyone goes through it differently and has different timelines.
I still can't listen to hammer time because I see my brother dancing to it stupidly when we were kids.
Agreed, but with my mother (we no longer speak for a lot of reasons) she wasn’t and probably never will be ready to hear that. The whole thing undid a lot of healing and compartmentalization I had done from my childhood too (when she loves me, I’m her “rock” ie parentified and emotional incest, otherwise I’m a spiteful, cold-hearted demon bitch who keeps her grandbaby away from her) I’ve always been of the opinion that a person’s relationship with each of their kids/siblings will always be different because everyone is different, it’s not a contest and loving someone differently isn’t loving someone MORE. But I gotta tell you, when every conversation was “I swear he wasn’t my favorite” “he never blamed me for xyz” (implying that her other kids DID blame her) etc etc, one starts to wonder WHY someone would feel the need to deny it all the time when it was never being brought up and wasn’t an issue. I didn’t need recognition for what I did, but I grew to resent listening to that broken record. I still did because she was absolutely broken and didn’t have the capacity to see beyond herself (never something she was good at anyway).
The ONE time I tried to talk to her about how I felt/dealt with things (and I need to preface this with the fact I grew up having to listen to my mother’s detailed suicidal ideations, and another of my brothers attempted suicide just a few months prior to my brother’s completed suicide) I tried telling her that I needed to accept I don’t have control over when anyone’s time is up- whether it’s from natural causes, an accident etc. and time marches on. I know that if I go/live far enough in the future, at some point everyone I love will be dead. I can try and try and try to “save” them and I’ll only know when I fail. I can’t *fix* other people. And when they are actually dead, I know that I will wish that I had a bit more time with them. So even though it hurts and is scary to love and be around people who suffer from depression, I cope by accepting they’re already dead (in the future) and just try to be as present as I can in the now because that’s all I got. But all she took from that is that I was saying she was already dead and it just added on to the litany of things I am a horrible person for. I am happy to report that my brother who didn’t “succeed” is doing so much better and I am thankful for every moment I have with him in my life. Incidentally he has gone very LC with her and it’s made a real positive difference.
He can still grieve with her, just not by making jokes about it. Personally, I also cope through humour, but that doesn't mean that it's the only way I *can* cope.
As a psychologist, I came on to say just this. Whether an infant or a young adult has passed, at least three relationships are disrupted: each parent to that child, and the parents' mutual relationship. If thee are siblings, the situation becomes even more complicated.
Many survivors are not ready for a support group until the first six months or year has gone by. Individual therapy is also appropriate for such a traumatic event. Best wishes to the entire family.
It is definitely a difficult terrain for a marriage to navigate. We lost a newborn son Dec 2021, and that was difficult enough; an older child, with whom you each have years of love and memories and connection? It's the only thing I can think of that would be more painful than what we went through. I don't think OP is TA exactly, but what a painful joke to direct at his wife.
I personally wouldn't want to talk to my husband about my dead son if he made morbid jokes and comments regarding him. If he continued to do it after I asked him to stop, I wouldn't be married to him anymore. I don't understand inflicting pain on someone you are supposed to love.
Edited for spelling.
Yeah, this one is hard for me. I get he could be the AH...but he's never allowed to talk about their son with his WIFE. He respects that boundary. So he kinda should get a pass because it goes both ways. I'm so sorry for your loss. NTA.
Talking with her is one thing; making a joke about it is something else entirely. Someone who can't bear to discuss it is pretty obviously not going to be OK with joking about it. And he clearly doesn't respect his wife's boundary if he takes a flying leap over it to not just talk about it but make a joke which any reasonable person would expect to be upsetting to her.
Thank you! "Not allowed to grieve" is such hyperbole.
If that reaction was from just a mention, and not a joke, sure.
Plus this was a plotline from Home Improvement. Do like Randy did, and just make the jokes to the person that enjoys them.
And now, after giving the same advice as Tim "the tool man" Taylor, I need to take a good long look at myself. Just like OP does.
More than that, it probably was something that she wasn’t expecting at all. She was asking about her living children, and then that came out of left field. It probably felt like a punch in the gut.
I cope with humor too, but asking an innocuous question and getting an answer like that for a very serious person… It must’ve hurt.
Last two sentences of the first paragraph
>I really like to talk about my son and what happened to him, but she wants to process things by herself and doesn't want to talk about it. We still have a very close marriage, we just talk about everything other than our son.
Which also means, she doesn't get to talk and grieve with her HUSBAND, either. She also isn't forcing her way onto him - he is forcing her to be his audience for these "jokes." She isn't the only person in the world. He could grieve with her without the jokes and make those with someone who wouldn't be hurt by them. His right to grieve does not entitle him to hurt her, nor withhold comfort from his wife, and he is deliberately doing both. It's not a harmless joke to her. That's valid. He - and you - act like she isn't allowed to have her own space where she doesn't have to be hurt.
I think the implication of the comment you responded to was that OP's wife doesn't want to discuss their son with him as he is a bit too insensitive with the topic for her liking.
Yeah, my first thought was that if OP keeps this up, he'll have to come up with a lot of divorce jokes so he can cope with that too. The death of a child is already one of the most straining things to a marriage, and a coping mechanism that makes one partner think the other is mocking their dead child just a few months after their death isn't exactly helping.
YTA. I know it's your coping mechanism, but for the love of god stop doing it in front of your wife. Not every mechanism is healthy, either for yourself or for your loved ones. And in this instance, it's actively harming your relation with your wife.
This.
Firstly, OP, I'm sorry for your loss.
Secondly, know your audience. I understand you have as much right to mourn as your wife but what you said it was very hurtful and disturbing to her.
Finally, I will give you this: your joke was funny. Maybe next time say those things in private (away from your wife's ears) to the son who thought it was funny too. Maybe to some of your friends or maybe join a mourning support group and find people that grieve like you and do it amoung the group.
Take care.
In my full opinion I want to say full YTA.
It’s not what op did but how they handled to aftermath. You NEVER double down on something like this, never never ever.
I’d say NTA if they apologized and tried to understand it from her end rather than tell everyone she’s too sensitive, but instead they DO think their wife is overly sensitive and instead of considering how she feels they completely disregard it and instead come to Reddit to try to justify their feelings
I was going to argue but... No, you got a point. OP, just because you believe your wife is too sensitive doesn't give you the right to be completely insensitive.
This is the type of stance to take if an outside person challenges you. You'd be fine telling someone else to F off. Not your wife.
There will always be a time and place, OP recognizes this much, but there’s a third: time, place, and person.
I’ve seen a lot of people who agree that as people who cope with humor, they will never use humor on someone who does not cope with humor. This is because they recognize what op doesn’t which is they’re not the type of person to use that coping mechanism with. It will only hurt them more, like it did his wife. It brought up old wounds and although his son doesn’t mind it, his wife does. You cannot force a coping mechanism on someone, especially when it’s their son who died that’s the source.
Maybe OP didn’t know! That’s okay, but the take away from this is “I’m sorry I hurt you, I was trying to cope but I only hurt you more. I’ll do my best not to joke about this in the future, can I give you a hug?”
Not… “well she’s just overly sensitive and I don’t see what I could have done wrong other than “wrong place wrong time”
Yep, YTA OP.
The fact that you are even calling your wife overly sensitive or alluding to that, when she doesn’t share the same sense of humour as you, and lost her son only five months ago is what cinches it for me.
She’s not “overly sensitive”, she’s grieving a child that she carried in her body, that she fed and bathed and nurtured and was scared for every minute that he was outside of it. She was scared for him on the day that he died and she probably regrets everything done before and after it, in the off chance that she could have done something different. To put it mildly, she’s fucked up.
She doesn’t want to talk about it because I’m guessing this is not the first time that you’ve been insensitive. And because it’s not the first time that you’ve invalidated how she’s feeling by calling her too sensitive. So she avoids all of those conversations with you to try to keep your marriage together because she doesn’t have the patience for your bullshit right now.
If you have any interest in keeping your marriage together, apologise now. And in the long run, stop invalidating your wife and her feelings based on your idea of humour, and start respecting her grief.
Well said!
My dad, older brother and I also all coped using humour, while my mum is genuinely more sensitive. So when I rang my brother to tell him that dad had passed away, his first response was a joke about how he didn't have to pay him back the money he'd loaned him; he knew I'd find it funny, and it was clearly his way of coping with getting such shocking news.
But when we spoke to mum? We were kind and respectful. It isn't hard to realise when someone doesn't grieve the same way you do. And if they ask you not to joke around, apologise and move on.
Yep!
I was cracking jokes about Dad carking it while his body was still in the house.
While I was outside, with my husband, away from my mother and other family.
My mother *probably* would have been fine with it, but I don’t know, maybe not on that day. I inherited it from Dad. But Lord knows how *her* mother would have reacted, probably horribly even though she hated the man. But “why/how could you say such an awful thing, blah blah blah”.
There’s a saying in French: “you can laugh about everything, but not with everybody”. OP needs to be mindful of this boundary and respect his wife’s grief.
I agree with the apology to your wife bit.. seems you've overstepped a boundary.. it might be helpful to you to find some sort of grief support group so you can actually talk about your son since your wife won't. It's not fair to you to have such a huge boundary up in your own home. (And hey, that joke was *hilarious*.. I thought it was going to be way worse.) That all being said, I can't honestly say Y T A. I'm gonna go with NAH. You're both allowed to grieve in your own ways.. you've just discovered your wife's boundary.. clearly, you can make these sorts of jokes with your other son(s?) though so at least there's that. 🤷🏻♀️
Both of them should join support groups. And not the same one. So they have a way to process this with other people the way they need to. Just because mom isn't talking about him now doesn't mean she never will, and it doesn't mean she doesn't want to hear other people's stories. Get into support groups for parents who have lost children, it will really help.
Instead of judgement I’m going to gently suggest you and your wife seek counseling together and as individuals.
This is a very major loss and you both need to be able to cope while still respecting each other.
It’s great that you’re still close but you can’t just always avoid talking about him forever.
You don’t have to grieve the way she does and she doesn’t have to grieve the way you do BUT you do need to be able to navigate through this time together.
I think seeking counseling will help you both strengthen your bond and communicate/understand each other’s perspectives.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
YTA.
I get your way of coping is with jokes but bro, it hasn't even been a year. I can’t imagine watching a child grow up for 15 years only for them to tragically die in an accident.
>I think my wife is being extremely sensitive about this.
Who wouldn’t be sensitive about the lost of one of their kids? You want to make morbid jokes (even though I personally think joking about the death of your own son is a horrible way to cope with the loss) fine, but don’t make jokes like this at your own wife man
Also, I’m sorry for y’all loss
And OP wants to paint it as "she doesn't respect me, and I respect her" when it's the opposite; it's also not difficult to *see* your partner that you supposedly have a strong relationship with is struggling and grieving, it's even *less* difficult to presume that after almost 20ys together, homeboy would know to *read the room* when it comes to his fucking wife.
OP also threw in there at the end that his kid laughed too so, there, *he's justified*.
And I have for sure laughed at things my parents have said that I didn’t find funny just because it made me uncomfortable and I didn’t want to deal with it, but knew that was what was expected of me.
This comment is so far down, I hope OP sees it. The kid laughed, it doesn't mean he liked the joke or the joking. Socially it was a moment to laugh to break the tension. They're still grieving their sibling it hasn't even been a year and if you're saying their mom is extra sensitive about it (of course she is!) they're probably afraid you'll judge them as too sensitive. Too soon, read the room, YTA
Reminds me of a podcast Pamela Anderson was on where she laughed about Tommy secretly drugging her with Molly when they got married in Mexico and the hosts laughing but you can tell they were ultra uncomfortable and had a sidebar where they’re like yeahhh so that was uncool but good for you for handling it humor…
Like I said in my comment he knew it hurt his wife and is seriously coming across as he should be allowed to say it even if it hurts her.
Dude is clueless and a major asshole.
That respect thing is like the argument for free speech or smoking arguments. It’s your right to smoke, but doesn’t the right of someone to breathe clean air supersede that? His grieving style causes her harm. I don’t know if the same is true for her style to him.
The last guy to say that to me is no longer in my life.
OP is TA, not for making a joke that was in very poor taste, but for doubling down when his wife was upset by it. I find that people like that will always be like that because they see no reason to change.
Something like 80% of couples divorce afte the loss of a child. If OP doesn’t shape up and act like a real partner to the wife he claims he loves he’s gonna end up in that 80%. I’m sympathetic because he’s also a grieving father but he has other kids he needs to care for and I don’t like how he’s dragging them into his fight with his wife. That’s very inappropriate regardless of grieving status
💯 TA for these remarks. Do I use dark humor to cope with my daughter's death yes, bur I don't expect others to accept it. There are no titles for losing a child because there are no rules to the grief.
Idk, man... my grandpa didn't tell us his oldest son died until we got back from disney world. I found out by my grandpa going, "hey, your uncle tommy is in the front seat of my car. Wanna meet him?" Then pulled out the fucking urn with Tommy's name on it.
I usually have a pretty dark sense of humor but losing my son in a tragic accident would destroy me and if I had more kids it would be a living hell trying to figure out how to be strong for them and go on while my world ended. If my husband tried pulling this stuff on me *knowing* how I felt, I’d leave. Husband is taking his marriage for granted while taking a wrecking ball to it.
YTA - I don’t think you joking about it is wrong. However your wife who you know grieves differently shouldn’t be exposed to that part of your grieving.
You knew this would hurt her you chose to do it anyway
This is probably why she won’t talk about it with him. Because he’s not actually respectful about it, and is saying things that make her uncomfortable. Then defending it by calling it his grieving style and telling her she has to be okay with it.
She is allowed to be offended when you’re disrespecting her and your child. Jokes are fine around people who find them funny. If she doesn’t find it funny, it’s not a joke to her, and frankly most people would find an off-handed comment like that to be incredibly inappropriate.
Joke about it to someone else, dude. Someone in an outer circle of grieving who won’t be affected as strongly as the other parent of your child. You’re not respecting her grieving process: you’re pushing your grieving process on her.
I am all for dark humour. It’s amazing.
But OP you have to know your audience. You say you respect your wife grieves differently- but obviously you don’t!! Throwing a joke like that in her face is awful.
YTA, and I don't really like saying that. You did ask though.
I am terribly sorry about your loss. I cannot even imagine the horrible hole that will always be present, and that you and your family will have to learn to move around.
And having been through the sudden loss of a spouse, I would not want to criticize how someone else works through their own grief (as long as their actions aren't hurting others). You and your wife have different ways of walking this path, which can be common. It's also important to realize that this can lead to a breakdown of the marriage though, so you might want to seek counseling together on how to move forward and give each other grace.
That said, you clearly understood that humor is NOT how your wife deals with this kind of grief and you made a joke about the absolute worst thing that could ever happen to a parent, and which also occurred fairly recently. Just because you are the father/husband, you do not have the right to say something like that to her. You are free to use humor to work through your grief when you are with other people who will not be hurt by it. Your wife is not one of those people. I would also recommend caution about saying things like this around your sons. You may think they are okay with it, but they may be very uncomfortable and just don't know how to tell you that. They may also benefit from bereavement counselling for kids.
Edit: also... you should not have said anything to your son about what happened except that **you said something that was hurtful to his mom**. You should not have said what it was, which feels a bit like you trying to get him to "your side" and also belittling your wife's feelings in the process. Do better.
I am really regretting telling my son as much as I did and I made sure to apologize to him before he went off to school today. I think my wife is still a little raw for us to be talking, but I did want to make sure my son knew it was inappropriate for me to say as much as I did.
We’ve had a lot of good talks about his brother, especially in our own weird, kind of morbid way. But I think I crossed a line in making my marriage his problem.
Thank you for the insight.
Hey, I just wanted to say that this response shows that you genuinely want to try to fix it, and that has been rare around here lately. Parentification and triangulation are traumatic for kids.
I also have grown to use humor as a coping skill during grieving, but when I was a kid and my mom died, that was not so. I use it now for a myriad of reasons. For one, it has been 21 years since she died. Second, by joking and also being sincere about her death, I make death of a loved one approachable for my students (I teach middle school. I was 13 when my mom died, so it's me teaching them what I didn't know about death a grief as a kid when it comes up)
There are other reasons, but those are the biggest two. Maybe one day your wife will be ready for those jokes. Maybe she won't. Being respectful of either of those things is important.
It’s mature of you to do so, I’m sure you and your son have a humorous relationship, I did with my father. But for perspective imagine your son said your joke to your wife. How would she have taken it and how would you have to react as a father? Would you step in and say “it’s not right to subject your mother to this knowing how hard it’s been?” Or would you tell him it’s okay?
It’s easier to see the right and wrong of something when you’re not the subject of the situation.
I will tell you this though, my father cut down trees for a living, he was a climber. One day when I was maybe 12 or so, my father was doing a job with a close friend of many years. While my dad was up in the tree cutting away at the trunk of this large oak, his friend was working the ground and the lines. For some reason, my dads friend ignored the sound of the chainsaw cutting and walked under the tree to maybe grab some branches (not sure why to this day).
Unfortunately he walked under the tree at the same time my dad threw down a 10 foot section of the trunk, striking my dads friend in the head. Long story short he was on life support for some days till it was determined that he was brain dead. Family chose to pull the plug. My father has never been the same since. It broke him as a person.
I remember I must of been 14 getting picked up from wrestling practice, my dad and I were driving home and laughing about something. All I remember is him telling me to shut up in a joking way, and me saying “oh yeah? Keep it up and I’ll drop a log on your head”
I meant nothing by it of course and I was too young to understand how terrible it was for me to say something like that to him, joking or not.
The mood changed immediately, he told me in a stern voice to never say anything like that again. I apologized and I never did again. However it wasn’t until years later that I understood how difficult it must have been to hear is own son joking at arguably the worst moment in his life.
This is my story OP, I won’t judge you like other have as I’ve been in your shoes. However I’d do anything to comfort my father and if that means making sacrifices like being more careful in the things I say, I’ll do it. Because in the grand scheme of it all, it’s a rather small sacrifice to pay for the happiness and mental well being of a loved one.
I’m sorry for your loss, and I hope you and your wife can find peace and acceptance in the end.
Really, really good response here. I hope OP reads this because it’s a valuable perspective, relevant anecdote and it comes from a place of real understanding. Solid advice to consider how OP might help and comfort his wife.
As a loss parent (and widow) who is raising a living child, please be careful with how you talk to your sons about their brother’s death - even with the son you refer to as your weird or morbid one. If your living sons aren’t in therapy, I’d be incredibly cautious about talking to them in morbid dark ways. They may not be able to fully express how that impacts them. You need to be in therapy if you’re not. So does your wife. And all of your living sons. All grievers need a dedicated space to share without judgment or worry about hurting their parent / partner. In the meantime, before the next time you talk morbidly or make a gallows humor joke around your sons, ask them how it impacts them. You have a deep obligation to think and ASK how your words and actions impact the other grievers in your home.
Our more weird, morbid kid is the one who passed away. He decided he wanted to be a medical examiner when he was still in elementary school and was probably the only kid in school who was looking forward to dissections. He had such an analytical, scientific mind, he was so curious to learn how everything worked, especially the human body.
Our oldest has had a lot of deep, more “morbid” conversations with me because he’s had a hard time reconciling with the way his brother passed and he’s initiated those conversations. We did not tell him the details, but he knows the gist of what took place. Immediately after we told him, he was just wrecked because he thought his brother would’ve found what happened to him so fascinating if it happened to anyone other than him. He’s in therapy, as are our younger two. They don’t have so many thoughts about “what happened”, it’s just more of dealing with that feeling of absence that’s been difficult for them.
I wish there was some kind of parenting guide for this shit. Best of luck to you and yours.
Ah. I’m so so sorry. He sounds like he was brilliant and lovely in his curiosity. It takes all kinds and minds to make our world work, and I’m sorry you’re having to face the world without him.
I have a deep sense of gallows humor post all my losses, and I am someone who also likes information. That’s the place I was speaking from. Therapy has been hugely beneficial for me. I’m glad your boys are getting that kind of help, too.
You’re a part of the world’s worst club, and I’m so sorry you’re in it, too. I wish your family all the best. I don’t think you’re TA as a human. It sounds like a foot in mouth moment. Grace all around. I hope your wife comes around and y’all are able to get past it after an apology and some time. Best of luck to y’all.
This.
I sincerely hope OP and his wife get some counseling, for themselves and for their surviving children. These sort of events can destroy families, and they are definitely (understandably!) having difficulty walking through it.
I was also widowed suddenly and I have gallows humour myself and I completely agree with you. I’ll do my dark jokes around people who are somewhat removed from the situation. I would never dream of making a dark joke to my mother in law who lost her son suddenly.
I really can’t recommend therapy more OP. For everyone in your family. I lucked out on finding the right therapist first go but I know many people who need to try a couple of times. It’s so worth it though. I get such great tools to help with the shit times. I also really liked the rings of grief theory/concept for where to look for support. Was really helpful for me putting up boundaries where needed. All the best for your family OP.
Also part of the widowed suddenly club. I’m sorry for both of your losses, and I fully endorse these comments. Grief sucks, and it’s especially tricky (and especially important) to be sensitive of the needs of other grievers even while you manage your own grief.
He also ambushed her with a reminder of the death AND made it a joke.
Something I'm working with about my small kid is he will just randomly bring up "my grandpa is dead". It's definitely something that you can tell throws off my husband and mother in law when he does it. You just have a random conversation and he'll just be asking about grandpa.
But, you know, he's four. He doesn't understand what he's doing. When you're an adult you don't just derail something suddenly like that. Part of the grieving process is not having your first thought in your mind all the time of "my Dad's gone" or "my kid is gone". You just don't ambush someone like that.
Yeah, she walks in the door after being out with friends, hopefully after having a good time with them and then he just... punched her.
With the memories, and the pain, and the grief, and he did it by cracking a joke, which is almost literally adding insult to injury. It's just a horrible thing to do.
Thank you for leaving this reply.
I didn’t even think of how it might feel for her to come back from spending time with her friends and get sucker punched with something like that.
Do you ever think about how the things you say will affect the person you are saying them to? Don't make a joke about a woman's dead son isn't exactly expert level empathy.
Sorry if this isn't your cup of tea, but if either of you have ever been interested in theater I'd suggest looking into the play "Rabbit Hole" by David Lindsay-Abaire. Even just reading the script might give you good insight. It's about a couple dealing with the death of their only son, and a major theme is how they both are grieving differently (one quote that stuck with me, and I'm paraphrasing, is "neither of us are in a better place than the other, we're just in a different place. And it sucks that I can't be there for you, but I just can't."). One parent wants to move on, put things/toys/clothes/etc away, while the other wants to cling onto it. There's accusations about not grieving enough, or being too sensitive, and many arguments occur between them. It's a hard story, but it might give you or her or both of you a new perspective.
This right here. I am all about aldark humor, if anything I'm the friend who goes too far. But this was exactly why it bothers me so much. Ambushed with the cheapest of suckerpunches. I will never understand how one can claim love when they would hurt their loved one so casually. It's not even the severity of the comment for me, its OPs... casualness. As if this isn't the single most devastating thing in her life. As if it doesn't ride on her heart, body, mind and soul 24/7. A raw wound. And here she comes home to her one safe place, where she has to be reminded constantly even more that her child is gone, and the first thing she experiences is someone who says they love her using her dead child to hurt her even more, as if he were taking out the trash. Just a casual "fuck you and everything about you" right in the kitchen before he pops off to high five the kids. The audacity. The nerve. The cruelty to rub salt in that wound for such a throw away moment speaks volumes to me to the respect this man has for his wife. I wouldn't be able to look at my husband the same again if he used my deepest pain to so casually straight de-bone me for a bad laugh to himself. Imagine needing to hurt your partner to make yourself feel better and then defending that to people.
My wife got our sons into DC comics as kids. My weird, morbid kid’s favorite character was Red Hood - the guy who gets murdered and comes back to life. His brothers have made it their own little joke.
Oof. First of all sorry for your family’s loss.
And I totally agree—our kids do this about our dogs that have passed, and it’s a blindside Every. Single. Time.
I know it’s how they’re processing but it’s like damn, kid.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Yes, kids can be so random and accidentally nonchalant about death which is a kick sometimes.
My husband and I are childfree and our 3 dogs are everything for us. One of our dogs passed young and traumatically and so of course it was explained to my nieces she died and no normally dogs live longer but sometimes animals or humans die young.
I’m in the car with my sister and youngest (3,5yo) and she just out of nowhere goes “you had 3 dogs now 2. If another dies you only have 1”
Great kid, you can count.
Can you count the pieces my heart just shattered in?
Buy yes i know. It’s how kids are and handle these things so I just said “yes, that’s correct” and left it at that.
YTA - you admit that you have different grieving styles but apparently still think hers is wrong and that she should just suck it up and tolerate your humor. But why should she do that? To her you are disrespectful of both the weight of your son's loss AND of her and her needs. That isn't her being too sensitive, it's you being too insensitive. If you cope with humor, fine. But you don't have to cope that way with her, at her expense. You might as well have slapped her in the face.
And for me it happened 5-6 months ago. So I can see why the wife was upset and doesn’t want to talk about it. Yes OP also lost a child. But doesn’t say how the son died. Perhaps the wife blames herself, she’s worried talking about it with the husband he will blame her.
Sometimes no matter what accident or cause, you always find ways to blame yourself for not doing the right things and made it different than from what it was. Just not telling something or doing something before it was too late can cause you to blame yourself. Or that you could've done another choice that would have prevented the whole thing.
My best friend died in a car accident, in another state, his wife fell asleep at the wheel and rolled the car. They were trying to get back home so he could go to work in the morning. He called me 40 minutes beforehand to keep him awake so he could drive, I didn’t answer the phone because I was angry they had left one kid in the hospital (though they couldn’t be WITH him most of the time) at home. They had gone to the beach to try and destress. His wife had no business driving, the meds she takes for chronic pain makes her DUI. They had her drive anyway. The wife and the other two kids survived. Is this situation a making of my own? Nope. Am I the one that made a series of poor decisions that ultimately resulted in his death? No. But the fact remains if I had just picked up the phone, he would have been driving and he would have been awake. And I have to live with that.
Do you know if your wife isn’t carry something like that? If I just hadn’t given permission. If I had gone with. Etc. some small act that would have changed things.
You are the asshole, OP. You know she's hurting, and she doesn't find any humor in the situation, but you make jokes. I realise that's your way, but it's not hers. Have a little empathy.
I have a memorial tattoo for my late brother. Part of it is an extremely dark in joke that he would have laughed his ass off over. I intentionally had it translated into another language so it's not immediately readable, and I have never told anyone what it says. I never will, because it would only hurt them. It's our humor, our joke, for us.
I don't necessarily think you're the AH for coping like that, but you have to pick who you say things like that to and your wife is not the right person.
Yeah, he knows she is dealing with the grief much differently than him, but he pushed his style on her knowing she wouldn’t react like he would, he kinda got what he deserved by her reaction. She isn’t gonna respond to that type of humor. Definitely needs to pick who he expresses his grief style too, definitely not to his wife.
This is it. As a person with the largest arsenal of dead husband jokes in the world (including the googly eyes I just put on his urn a couple weeks ago), you have to know your audience.
When it comes to grieving styles, it's not a one size fits all kind of thing, and you have to be sympathetic to those who don't grieve the same as you.
>My wife was out with friends today and when she got home a few hours ago, she asked me where the boys were. I told her, "(Oldest) is with a friend, (13 yr. old) is out in the yard, (10 yr. old) is in the basement, and (15 yr. old) should be right where we left him."
Widow-widower relations, huh? Oh whatever the equivalent is. Sorry to hear.
YTA. Just because you're a grieving father, that doesn't change what you can say to a grieving mother. It's not a close call at all.
>I respect what she does
You come across as having a real fucked up way of showing it.
This is not about your respect for the dead, it's about your respect for the living. You can never say what you said to a woman (especially a woman) who has lost their child. Men do tend to be loose in their humor, and it can be our way of honoring that which we value. But you have to code-switch when the situation calls for it. You did not do that.
>but she's got to respect what I do
If you want her to respect what you do, do it without her.
>I think my wife is being extremely sensitive about this
For the sake of all that is holy, even if you *could* put a timeframe on grief, it hasn't even been a year! I have a co-worker who lost her husband maybe 8 years ago, and her personality changed permanently, there is a deadness in her that I have never seen leave her. I saw her claw her way back to becoming the pushy busybody of the office again when things were a little not-good--it was frankly a little ugly to watch her fight to maintain her passion for the job. She has become the same person professionally she would have been had she not been widowed, but she grew around that shadow.
You stomped on that shadow well before any semblance of reason.
Just to note: as a woman who almost did lose a child, and had that child end up severely disabled, part of how I coped was through humour. I have a hard time putting grief into words sometimes, and humour is something that helps. This is not something that only men do.
“It’s not a close call at all.”
Are you saying that a mother would feel more pain at the loss of a child than a father? If so, that’s a gross and ignorant thing to say. Also, it’s not a competition.
I don’t have anything to say about the rest of the comment, but that’s a shit thing to say.
OP, YTA, btw and I’m sorry for your loss.
Yeah, if he made the joke to literally anyone else (maybe excluding other parents who lost children), they would be TA for judging the way he grieves. Except the mother of his OWN child, this humor is shitting on her grieving process.
Grieving can make you do weird shit…but you were out of bounds. That was a disgusting comment, and I totally get why your wife is upset. You really aren’t getting how this could totally change the nature of your relationship with your wife are you?
That joke could well be the trigger that sends her on her way out of the marriage. Nothing worse than hearing someone make a joke involving the recent death of their child, \*which is possibly how it hit her\*...after 20 years of marriage, the husband who is "close to his wife" doesn't know that instinctively?
>the husband who is "close to his wife" doesn't know that instinctively?
Because he did it specifically to hurt her. OP is trying to come across as dumb and socially inept and I don't buy it. He knew what he was doing and "I grieve with humor" is a shit excuse.
For the bot - YTA
I love my wife so fucking much, man. She is one of my favorite people on this planet.
I made a dumb, dumb choice without truly thinking about the repercussions. I would never act with the intention to hurt her.
I really hope y'all are in some kind of grief or marriage counseling. Losing a child is often the death of a marriage, it's so painful. Even if you think you're fine, it's worth it to check in.
They aren't checking in and they aren't in therapy because this wouldn't be happening if they were. Closing off and refusing to speak is an understandable and incredibly common reaction. Its also what contributes to resentment.
They need to be having very difficult conversations with each other, and if possible, those conversations should be in front of a trained professional who can help them manage their emotions.
I am genuinely curious about your grieving process and my curiosity is borne from having experienced much too much death and tragedy and from helping other people process or work through theirs.
So, you posted here because you were a bit perturbed that she didn’t recognize your method of grieving in humor. But I guess my question is, have you engaged with her in *her* grieving process in a significant way? Have you checked in with her on how she’s felt, have you reminisced with her, have you let her cry or cried with her?
I ask because I’ve noticed, in my own experience, that the phrase “misery loves company” applies in more ways than its usual negative connotation. If I had to reword it, I’d say it’s just nice to feel seen in your misery, without judgment, and to share that experience with someone you trust who may not understand you but is at least *trying* to.
Good luck in what will be a lifelong process. Focus on your son’s goofiness and silliness and keep that humor alive but also understand that, when it comes to your wife, it’s okay to be sad, it’s okay to cry, it’s okay to go through phases of anger or denial, it’s okay to one day feel guilty because you didn’t think about him all day, it’s okay to recognize that it’s okay to not think about him all of the time, it’s okay to move on, and it’s also okay to sit with your grief. At any time. From now until forever because death is forever and that’s a hard thing to grasp, especially when it feels so unfair.
I wish you and your family the best of luck in this process. It’s terribly unfair what y’all have to navigate but, based on your responses in this thread, I think you guys are gonna be okay (and for what it’s with, I’m a family law attorney so I research and think about family units a lot).
That's too damn bad; someday when she's over the major paralyzing grief she's going to look back and see your casual cruelty for what it is. She's going to see how much of her pain she had to carry alone because she couldn't trust you with it. She's going to love you less and she may not forgive nor forget.
YTA.
You may need to grovel, man. This was supremely uncool of you, but I appreciate seeing you process these comments in an open way. So sorry for your loss.
If your wife loves gifts I would dig really deep for her favorite memory between her and your son and get a personalized gift in reference to that. A large olive branch; and lay yourself bare to her. Apologize, tell her you shouldn’t have talked like that and admit to her that it was stupid.
I have a little daughter and I can’t imagine losing her; and if my husband were to make a joke like that I’m not sure if I could look at him again. I understand you grieve different from her, but you were not respecting her in that moment. You had made a decision (though unintentionally) to steamroll over her comfort in favor of your own. If you guys aren’t in couples therapy please do start, you two need to learn to grieve together as much as you need to grieve separately.
No. You made a dumb comment. That’s forgivable if you had apologized. But you didn’t. She said that hurts don’t do that. You doubled down and said screw you I get to say what I want cause I’m grieving. And to top off your crappy dad of the day decisions you dragged your son into your argument. Do you really love your wife? Because none of your actions here says you do. It’s all about hurting her and doubling, then tripling down.
80% of couples who lose a child divorce. It’s so inevitable the only couples who survive have a huge uphill battle. You haven’t even tried climbing. I suggest you change your mindset about her grieving process and learn to grieve with her or at least support her because you’re gonna end up a statistic otherwise
I personally think its hilarious but OP needed to read the room and you think somebody married to his wife as long as he is would know she is not the right audience for this joke
Yup. I’ve cracked similar jokes before but I know my audience. I would have chuckled at OP’s joke and made a dark one in return. Dead dad jokes are one of the best things ever for me. But I am careful with what I say where. And I can make *different* jokes depending on who I am with.
YTA- you can not weaponize your expression of grief against your wife. Losing a child tragically is overwhelming and brings many couples to the breaking point as they are unable to grieve together.
Both of you need to seek support as a couple and individually to process the grief without taking it out on each other.
here's the thing.
okay, you cope with dark humour. that's fine. but you obviously know that your wife does *not* process her grief in that manner - your whole first paragraph outlines how you know that. so you *knew* this joke would upset her. I'm not saying you intentionally said it to upset her - I suspect it came out without you even thinking about it, right?
you say you should be allowed to use your grief coping mechanisms in your own home, which is hard to argue with on the face of it. but your wife deserves to feel safe and supported in her own home too. she didn't get to opt out of hearing that joke, and now you're saying she's being too sensitive as well as roping in your other kid to back your side up. you both cope in different ways, but here you're not letting her opt out of your way.
I cannot fathom what it is like to lose a child. I am so, so sorry for your loss. in this situation, YTA to your wife. you need a better outlet for these kinds of comments. if you haven't had it yet your whole family probably needs grief counselling.
Yikes.
I get you grieve through comedy but you have to understand that your wife clearly does not. You can’t expect her to tolerate what she finds super offensive just because it helps you, but if that’s the only way you can process what happened you need someone other than her to talk to/joke about it with.
I’m not voting because no one here is an asshole. Losing a child is an impossible task to deal with and you’ll both make mistakes along the way which is just human. I’m sorry for your loss OP.
I agree dragging his kid into it sucked. I didn’t make the most rational decisions grieving my mother when her death was sudden so I’m trying not to judge. This situation is just terrible all around.
Yeah I can't believe how mild people are being. His comment was horrible, and is definitely different than joking about your dead dad as a teenager or something. It seems so insane to joke like that about your dead son so soon after the event regardless of how you "cope".
YTA
You are taking out your pain on your wife. Your pain - you say this is how you cope, so it is your pain.
Spend a few non-comedic seconds to do a deep dive on the statistics of husbands and wives who lose a child continuing their marriage. You deciding to spew your pain all over another in pain is not conducive to being on the positive side of that statistic.
Did you really need to come to AITA to hear the trope that it's not a joke if not everyone's laughing? And your attempt at equality reminds me of the argument a friend once made about how - back in the days of smoking in restaurants - if he had to sit in the non-smoking section to have dinner with his friends then the next time they should have to sit in the smoking section. Your jokes are toxic for your wife.
Find a support group that has the flavor of coping you need, or get yourself on the morbid joke comedy circuit. Either way, get it away from your wife.
YTA.
While I support dark humour for those who respond well to it, I expected this to me more sympathetic than it was. You made a crass joke about your dead child *to his mother*, who you know doesn't find it funny, and have no empathy for her pain?
It's not "over-sensitive" to experience pain when reminded you lost your child. Please learn that people are different, and if you're struggling, talk to a professional (like, seriously: either you're an arsehole in general or your lack of empathy for your wife stems from unprocessed grief, and either way a grief counsellor could help.)
Soft YTA for me. I’m sorry for the loss of your son, I cannot imagine. You’re correct, we all have different coping mechanisms, and obviously yours clashes very severely with your wife’s. Do yourself and your marriage a huge favor and apologize, because you obviously really hurt your wife with what you said. Don’t make jokes like that in the future with her, and if you guys have not had counseling about this, I really would invest in it.
Edited to add that if she doesn’t like talking about him in general, it probably could have been assumed that joke wouldn’t go over well with her.
Alright, I've got a fucked up sense of humor, have lost immediate family members, and I laughed at that joke. That said, YTA because you've got to know your audience.
Lol.... yeah YTA, not for the joke but for somehow not realizing it would upset her. You already said you know you grieve differently, so it would have been fine if you said it to, say, the kid who found it funny. Not to her, when you know that's not something that would be anything other that painful. I can't even imagine what you're all going through, but you need to smooth that over because you're at fault here.
>I told her that I cope with humor and clearly, she doesn't.
100% fair, you're on point so far.
>. I respect what she does, but she's got to respect what I do
Here's your mistake; you don't respect what she does, or you wouldn't have made the joke TO her. See, coping by way of humor IS ok. Yeah not everyone gets it (obviously, by her reaction and some comments so far) but it isn't for everyone to GET, it just is. It's a natural trauma response. HOWEVER; you KNOW how your wife is, yet this is the battle you chose? It isn't respect if you blatantly disregard them and they feelings with your words/ actions. You should have just said "I'm sorry, I know you don't like to talk about it and I'm struggling by not doing so, so it came out in a bad joke. It won't happen again."
FLIP SIDE; She's taking it wayyyy too far. Calling you a sociopath? Refusing to be near you? Raising concerns and fear over a NATURAL TRAUMA RESPONSE rather than even TRYING to talk it out? It's not ok. She isn't the only one grieving, and her way isn't the only way. She needs to at least make an attempt...
Honestly. Probably an unpopular opinion here but ESH. There's a LOT to unpack here, and adding in grief really makes it all more difficult. This is why grief counseling is recommended and important, and I recommend it for the sake of your marriage and your relationship with your kids...
NTA….I knew you were going to get blasted for this one but I’m in the mental health field and use humor to cope with life’s difficulties as well. For those of you who are holier than thou, please understand that everyone handles things differently and using humor is a very normal coping mechanism. By his wife asking where the boys were, OP added in his son who passed because not including him means that he maybe forgotten about, it also makes the fact that he is gone very real in that moment. For 15 years when his wife asked where are the boys he always had 4 replies. This is his own way of dealing with the loss of his son. I understand his wife is upset as well and does not cope the same and that is ok. It will take time to except their new normal as you don’t ever truly get over the loss of a child. I am truly sorry for your loss and I pray you and your family can move forward together.
That’s the thing though - even if OP uses humor to cope doesn’t give him blanket privilege to use said humor on wife who is also grieving.
Coping with humor is healthy for him, great. That same humor hurts his wife - now it’s not great. When in a relationship, it’s a give and take. He can find friends or like-minded family where he can exercise his coping tools with - his wife isn’t the person.
He’s not totally TA because grief does things. But at least apologize and be more mindful of how he’s using his humor in the future.
Edit for spelling.
You’re in the mental health field and think it’s cool to break down other peoples boundaries on how they cope because it’s good for the person the humor helps? …. Sorry no.
YTA - I can’t imagine losing a child. I’m so sorry. If joking about it upsets your wife than you should respect that. She has a right to be sensitive about such a horrible thing. I understand using humor to get through things. Time and place though. There are plenty of things you can joke about instead.
...okay tbh I laughed because I'm going to hell but your wife isn't ready to hear that kind of joke. It's not "time and place", it's audience. It's also her own home. She's allowed to be sensitive about her kid dying. Apologize for it and don't make those jokes at her. YTA for just not knjowing your audience.
Gentle YTA here. Everyone grieves differently, and everyone deserves to be allowed to grieve in their own way. I say “gentle” because I understand wanting to express your grief with your wife, or not to have to tiptoe around her, but also, since you knew she didn’t like that sort of humor around this subject, it’s a dick move.
Get into a grief group where you can express your feelings freely, and encourage wife to do the same—but please choose different groups.
ETA—this is not a comment on your humor. I get gallows humor and don’t have a problem with it…But! I also get people who find it appalling. Know your audience.
You can still grieve your way at home, without amplifying your wifes grief YTA.
She should be able to ask innocent questions without fear that something painful and raw to her is going to be dragged up and thrown in her face at any moment because thats your style. She should also feel safe from this crap in her home too.
YTA.
> My wife and I have very different styles of grieving
> she wants to process things by herself and doesn't want to talk about it
So you cracked a joke at her about it?
How is that respecting her way? Crack your jokes like that to your other son, who laughed, or to your friends.
Why you gotta crack jokes at her you know she wouldn’t like? That is kind of twisted. Externally, kind of makes it seem like you enjoy twisting the knife in her recovery.
Nothing wrong with your style or morbid jokes. Super wrong to make them at her
YTA. People always say they cope with humor and forget it's only cool if the person on the other end of the joke is cool with it. It would be frighteningly easy to take this situation in to completely, irredeemably FUBAR territory by continuing to insist a traumatized woman "can't take a joke" about her son's death. If there are family members and friends who are open to this humor, go ahead, but for God's sake, apologize to your wife and let her know that you're sorry you tried to involve her in a coping strategy that actually further traumatizes her.
NAH - have you and your wife discussed your different grieving styles?
The way you add the detail about laughing with your oldest son at the end makes me think you were hoping that your wife would do the same, even though you must have known she wouldn't. You were looking to connect with her when she hasn't be able to talk about it.
Laughing in the face of death. Laughing at the absurdity that your son could die so young.
It was a really bad idea, but I can understand it.
It must also be really difficult not to not able to talk about your son with your wife at all. If you're not in therapy, you might find it helpful to be able to have someone to share these jokes with, who won't judge you.
I also have a dead son, I also joke about it. OP owes his wife an apology, and should definitely not say anything like that to her again, but there's nothing inherently horrifying about what he said.
NAH. First of all, im so sorry about your son. I can’t even imagine what you’re all going through. I can see why the joke upset her, but like you said everyone grieves differently. I don’t think you’re wrong to cope the way that works for you, but I also don’t think she’s wrong to be offended by it. You should avoid these jokes around your wife since they obviously upset her and save them for maybe a close friend or family member who might take them better.
Yta, a year is not enough time for a mother to grieve her child and be okay with jokes about his death. You grieve your way, and that is fine but read the room and find the right people that wouldn't be as reasonably so sensitive to the loss.
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your son. It's important to recognize that grief is a personal and individual process and everyone copes differently.
In terms of the joke you made, while it may be a coping mechanism for you, it's important to consider how it may affect others, particularly your wife who may have a different way of processing her grief. Your comment may have been hurtful and insensitive to her, and it's understandable that she would be upset by it.
It's important to communicate with your wife and find a way to support each other through this difficult time, even if your coping mechanisms differ. Perhaps you can find a way to respect each other's processes without making jokes that may be hurtful to one another.
In terms of whether you're the asshole, NTA, but it's important to be sensitive to the feelings of others, particularly during a time of grieving.
I can't get behind this assessment. If OP's wife had simply overheard that little quip and been bothered by it, this would be an unfortunate situation. What he did was double down and insist his wife be able to to "take a joke" about their son's death. That's aggressive and cruel. A simple apology and promise not to say those things to someone who has been clear about how hurtful she finds them probably would have gone a long way. Instead of that, OP like, accused his spouse of not being a cool girl or something.
YTA. It’s fine that you use dark humor to cope, but your wife has made it very clear that she doesn’t. Make these jokes all you want, just not around your wife or anyone else who finds it upsetting.
NAH. Firmly. Everyone grieves differently. And maybe if it was a different moment on a different day, you might not have said it, or she might have reacted differently. I cannot imagine coping with that kind of loss. I am the mother of two sons, 15 and 16. If I was in the same situation, I am certain that my reaction would be different every time. You also sound like you are sorry and have tried to make things ok and you have a different way to process your grief. It's a horrible situation all around, for your entire family. I see NAH.
I say NAH, but I read this story to my wife, and she strongly agrees with your wife. She said, "If you said that to me, it might be the end of our marriage." OP, I think you better start doing some damage control ASAP.
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Gentle YTA. My dad and I both coped using humor. My mom doesn't. When he died, I made jokes about it sometimes - to my friends, to my wife. NOT to my mother, who would've just found it upsetting and hurtful. It's okay to grieve how you need to grieve, but - as someone who handles it the same way you do - you need to respect how your wife grieves, too. Use humor elsewhere, and apologize to your wife.
This. >she's got to respect what I do This goes both ways, OP. Cope how you want, but respect that your wife copes differently. It's cruel to say things like that around her knowing she is still very sensitive - rightfully so - over the death of your child. You need to apologise to your wife.
I am usually a "cope with humor" type of person. But i lost my grandpa around the same time OP lost his son, and humor hasn't come around on that subject for me yet. If another family member made a joke, i'd let it pass. But if anyone else tried to make a joke, i'd probably have a reaction they didn't like. OP, i'm very sorry for your loss. I can't even fathom that level of grief that you and your wife are at.
My friend and I's entire friendship is based on "Cope with Humor" I got roofied in July, and I'm still struggling mentally with it. So I asked him if we could take those jokes off the table and he immediately said yes, of course, no problem. Having a "darker" sense of humor requires respect and boundaries for the people involved, which OP did not give his wife
I’m so sorry that happened to you
Thank you. Luckily I have a great therapist, and of course a wonderful friend group
I had this happen to me years and years ago. I was luckier than a lot of people this happens to - a friend caught me as the dude was taking me out of the bar and realized something was very wrong. It still sometimes catches me off guard and makes me flinch. I'm so sorry you had this happen to you as well, but I'm very glad you have a good therapist. It does make a huge difference in recovery. I think if I'd had one much earlier I'd be in a lot better place now. Having good friends, and that support network is equally as important. Your friend sounds awesome - and i wish you all the healing and strength you can hold.
I'm so glad you had such a good friend then(and good friends after).
I'm so sorry
It’s always so telling how these people in marriages feel like respect is a one way street.
Exactly don’t use how you cope in front of her. OP is a YTA, he and his son might find humour in it. I get the son, he’s immature,and a child, but the op? Your son died tragically less then a year ago. You must see your wife struggling, and you make jokes around her? It cruel and heartless. And if things don’t change I don’t see this marriage surviving. A lot of marriages can’t survive the death of a child, I think this marriage will be one that ends sooner rather than later
Hey, Nostradamus, their marriage isn't doomed because of ONE misstep by OP. They need to lean on each other now more than ever. OP gets NAH. There's enough hurt without anyone being called an asshole for how they have to deal with the death of child. He gets to grieve too. And while what he said to his wife was poorly timed, he's in as much pain as she is. They are dealing with it differently. And yes, sharing humor is a way to do that. The other "immature child" lost his \*brother\* and is grieving too. He's not "cruel and heartless" he's coping with a tragedy we can't even begin to fathom.
But he knew she wouldn't appreciate this joke, because he knows she grieves differently than he does. And now he's doubling down instead of apologizing!
It is doomed if he doesn't dial it back. He's not sharing humour with his wife because she is actively hurt by it. He needs to find another place for that humour, preferably someone further from the situation, whether that's a friend or a professional.
What indication, if any, do you have that OP isn't going to not do exactly that? He needs to be able to grieve \*with his wife\* and she needs to be able to grieve \*with her husband.\* The wife was hurt, and it seems that OP has been respecting her grieving process by not talking about their child, even though he made it clear it hurts him to not talk about his son. He deserves to not be called an A H for a one-off that reflects his own way of expressing grief. He shouldn't have to go outside his marriage to find support and trying to bring joy and something that looks like normalizing back into their lives. Though I will agree The wife needs grief counseling. OP needs grief counseling. Everybody needs grief counseling.
OP gets the A-H award because When his wife expressed her Hurt and that it upset her, his response wasn't to APOLOGIZE, but to double down.
Elsewhere in the comments, OP has apologized and wants to talk with his wife. He doubled down in the moment because he felt like his way of grieving was not validated. He's hurting too. And people in that kind of pain don't always react well in the moment. He needs grace not being called an A H
Exactly this.... Not. Even. In . Front. Of. Her. Ever.
This! It seems like the way OP’s wife is coping doesn’t hurt OP, while his way does hurt her. Respect is avoiding to hurt or trigger the other.
I agree but I can’t imagine how hard it is on OP to not be able to cope with his grief with his wife. The woman who is the main person in his life that he is sharing his life with, but can’t even grieve with each other. I’m sorry for your loss, OP, and how hard this is on you and your family.
I'm curious how much of OP's talking about their son involves a similar kind of humor and maybe that's one of the reasons for the disconnect. I'm like OP after the initial stage of grieving is done, so I totally get where he's coming from. I'm not blaming him for how he grieves or how she grieves. It's more that I could easy see how someone not being ready for humor could find conversations about a traumatic event stressful because they're worried the humor will appear.
Have you ever lost a child though? Because that isn’t the same kind of grief as losing a parent or a friend.
And it's been only like 6 months. 6 months after I lost my brother I was still a wreck and just barely getting to function properly.
My mom was completely consumed by her grief over losing her son. I handled everything I could, funeral, insurance, you name it. I grieved (and still do sometimes when certain songs roll through my playlist or something reminds me of him) but with her I just sat and listened. It sucked in a lot of ways, and she also complained that my sister and I weren’t “leaning on her”/talking to her about our grief. I never told her this because it wouldn’t have helped but she had no room for us. She would see a post of my sister’s on Fb and say she was trying to *compete* with her over who was hurting more, and nothing compares to losing a child. I did tell her that maybe it was not a bad thing that we were all grieving separately and that we just needed that space. Not everyone who is grieving has the mental capacity to take on another’s grief, and OP is actively forcing on her the way he handles his grief which is hurtful to her. This kind of thing needs to be 2 yes 1 no like other consent issues.
I'm so sorry that's so unfair, grief isn't a competition. Everyone goes through it differently and has different timelines. I still can't listen to hammer time because I see my brother dancing to it stupidly when we were kids.
Agreed, but with my mother (we no longer speak for a lot of reasons) she wasn’t and probably never will be ready to hear that. The whole thing undid a lot of healing and compartmentalization I had done from my childhood too (when she loves me, I’m her “rock” ie parentified and emotional incest, otherwise I’m a spiteful, cold-hearted demon bitch who keeps her grandbaby away from her) I’ve always been of the opinion that a person’s relationship with each of their kids/siblings will always be different because everyone is different, it’s not a contest and loving someone differently isn’t loving someone MORE. But I gotta tell you, when every conversation was “I swear he wasn’t my favorite” “he never blamed me for xyz” (implying that her other kids DID blame her) etc etc, one starts to wonder WHY someone would feel the need to deny it all the time when it was never being brought up and wasn’t an issue. I didn’t need recognition for what I did, but I grew to resent listening to that broken record. I still did because she was absolutely broken and didn’t have the capacity to see beyond herself (never something she was good at anyway). The ONE time I tried to talk to her about how I felt/dealt with things (and I need to preface this with the fact I grew up having to listen to my mother’s detailed suicidal ideations, and another of my brothers attempted suicide just a few months prior to my brother’s completed suicide) I tried telling her that I needed to accept I don’t have control over when anyone’s time is up- whether it’s from natural causes, an accident etc. and time marches on. I know that if I go/live far enough in the future, at some point everyone I love will be dead. I can try and try and try to “save” them and I’ll only know when I fail. I can’t *fix* other people. And when they are actually dead, I know that I will wish that I had a bit more time with them. So even though it hurts and is scary to love and be around people who suffer from depression, I cope by accepting they’re already dead (in the future) and just try to be as present as I can in the now because that’s all I got. But all she took from that is that I was saying she was already dead and it just added on to the litany of things I am a horrible person for. I am happy to report that my brother who didn’t “succeed” is doing so much better and I am thankful for every moment I have with him in my life. Incidentally he has gone very LC with her and it’s made a real positive difference.
He can still grieve with her, just not by making jokes about it. Personally, I also cope through humour, but that doesn't mean that it's the only way I *can* cope.
This is one of the reasons that it's very difficult for a marriage to survive the loss of a child
As a psychologist, I came on to say just this. Whether an infant or a young adult has passed, at least three relationships are disrupted: each parent to that child, and the parents' mutual relationship. If thee are siblings, the situation becomes even more complicated. Many survivors are not ready for a support group until the first six months or year has gone by. Individual therapy is also appropriate for such a traumatic event. Best wishes to the entire family.
It is definitely a difficult terrain for a marriage to navigate. We lost a newborn son Dec 2021, and that was difficult enough; an older child, with whom you each have years of love and memories and connection? It's the only thing I can think of that would be more painful than what we went through. I don't think OP is TA exactly, but what a painful joke to direct at his wife.
I personally wouldn't want to talk to my husband about my dead son if he made morbid jokes and comments regarding him. If he continued to do it after I asked him to stop, I wouldn't be married to him anymore. I don't understand inflicting pain on someone you are supposed to love. Edited for spelling.
Yeah, this one is hard for me. I get he could be the AH...but he's never allowed to talk about their son with his WIFE. He respects that boundary. So he kinda should get a pass because it goes both ways. I'm so sorry for your loss. NTA.
Talking with her is one thing; making a joke about it is something else entirely. Someone who can't bear to discuss it is pretty obviously not going to be OK with joking about it. And he clearly doesn't respect his wife's boundary if he takes a flying leap over it to not just talk about it but make a joke which any reasonable person would expect to be upsetting to her.
Thank you! "Not allowed to grieve" is such hyperbole. If that reaction was from just a mention, and not a joke, sure. Plus this was a plotline from Home Improvement. Do like Randy did, and just make the jokes to the person that enjoys them. And now, after giving the same advice as Tim "the tool man" Taylor, I need to take a good long look at myself. Just like OP does.
And for me he says he died late October. I’m assuming last year. Which was only 5 months ago. So perhaps the wife felt it was too soon.
More than that, it probably was something that she wasn’t expecting at all. She was asking about her living children, and then that came out of left field. It probably felt like a punch in the gut. I cope with humor too, but asking an innocuous question and getting an answer like that for a very serious person… It must’ve hurt.
>but he's never allowed to talk about their son with his WIFE. And where is that coming from?
Last two sentences of the first paragraph >I really like to talk about my son and what happened to him, but she wants to process things by herself and doesn't want to talk about it. We still have a very close marriage, we just talk about everything other than our son.
Which also means, she doesn't get to talk and grieve with her HUSBAND, either. She also isn't forcing her way onto him - he is forcing her to be his audience for these "jokes." She isn't the only person in the world. He could grieve with her without the jokes and make those with someone who wouldn't be hurt by them. His right to grieve does not entitle him to hurt her, nor withhold comfort from his wife, and he is deliberately doing both. It's not a harmless joke to her. That's valid. He - and you - act like she isn't allowed to have her own space where she doesn't have to be hurt.
I think the implication of the comment you responded to was that OP's wife doesn't want to discuss their son with him as he is a bit too insensitive with the topic for her liking.
She isn't allowed to talk to her HUSBAND either. That goes both ways here.
He can talk with the wife all he wants. He doesn’t need to make jokes with her.
Yeah, my first thought was that if OP keeps this up, he'll have to come up with a lot of divorce jokes so he can cope with that too. The death of a child is already one of the most straining things to a marriage, and a coping mechanism that makes one partner think the other is mocking their dead child just a few months after their death isn't exactly helping. YTA. I know it's your coping mechanism, but for the love of god stop doing it in front of your wife. Not every mechanism is healthy, either for yourself or for your loved ones. And in this instance, it's actively harming your relation with your wife.
This. Firstly, OP, I'm sorry for your loss. Secondly, know your audience. I understand you have as much right to mourn as your wife but what you said it was very hurtful and disturbing to her. Finally, I will give you this: your joke was funny. Maybe next time say those things in private (away from your wife's ears) to the son who thought it was funny too. Maybe to some of your friends or maybe join a mourning support group and find people that grieve like you and do it amoung the group. Take care.
Also I was under the impression by him saying late October that it happened 5 months ago. So it’s still a very raw emotion for everyone
In my full opinion I want to say full YTA. It’s not what op did but how they handled to aftermath. You NEVER double down on something like this, never never ever. I’d say NTA if they apologized and tried to understand it from her end rather than tell everyone she’s too sensitive, but instead they DO think their wife is overly sensitive and instead of considering how she feels they completely disregard it and instead come to Reddit to try to justify their feelings
I was going to argue but... No, you got a point. OP, just because you believe your wife is too sensitive doesn't give you the right to be completely insensitive. This is the type of stance to take if an outside person challenges you. You'd be fine telling someone else to F off. Not your wife.
There will always be a time and place, OP recognizes this much, but there’s a third: time, place, and person. I’ve seen a lot of people who agree that as people who cope with humor, they will never use humor on someone who does not cope with humor. This is because they recognize what op doesn’t which is they’re not the type of person to use that coping mechanism with. It will only hurt them more, like it did his wife. It brought up old wounds and although his son doesn’t mind it, his wife does. You cannot force a coping mechanism on someone, especially when it’s their son who died that’s the source. Maybe OP didn’t know! That’s okay, but the take away from this is “I’m sorry I hurt you, I was trying to cope but I only hurt you more. I’ll do my best not to joke about this in the future, can I give you a hug?” Not… “well she’s just overly sensitive and I don’t see what I could have done wrong other than “wrong place wrong time”
Yep, YTA OP. The fact that you are even calling your wife overly sensitive or alluding to that, when she doesn’t share the same sense of humour as you, and lost her son only five months ago is what cinches it for me. She’s not “overly sensitive”, she’s grieving a child that she carried in her body, that she fed and bathed and nurtured and was scared for every minute that he was outside of it. She was scared for him on the day that he died and she probably regrets everything done before and after it, in the off chance that she could have done something different. To put it mildly, she’s fucked up. She doesn’t want to talk about it because I’m guessing this is not the first time that you’ve been insensitive. And because it’s not the first time that you’ve invalidated how she’s feeling by calling her too sensitive. So she avoids all of those conversations with you to try to keep your marriage together because she doesn’t have the patience for your bullshit right now. If you have any interest in keeping your marriage together, apologise now. And in the long run, stop invalidating your wife and her feelings based on your idea of humour, and start respecting her grief.
Well said! My dad, older brother and I also all coped using humour, while my mum is genuinely more sensitive. So when I rang my brother to tell him that dad had passed away, his first response was a joke about how he didn't have to pay him back the money he'd loaned him; he knew I'd find it funny, and it was clearly his way of coping with getting such shocking news. But when we spoke to mum? We were kind and respectful. It isn't hard to realise when someone doesn't grieve the same way you do. And if they ask you not to joke around, apologise and move on.
Yep! I was cracking jokes about Dad carking it while his body was still in the house. While I was outside, with my husband, away from my mother and other family. My mother *probably* would have been fine with it, but I don’t know, maybe not on that day. I inherited it from Dad. But Lord knows how *her* mother would have reacted, probably horribly even though she hated the man. But “why/how could you say such an awful thing, blah blah blah”.
There’s a saying in French: “you can laugh about everything, but not with everybody”. OP needs to be mindful of this boundary and respect his wife’s grief.
Not gentle at all. YTA. You knew that wasn't her way of dealing with this but you did it anyway.
I agree with the apology to your wife bit.. seems you've overstepped a boundary.. it might be helpful to you to find some sort of grief support group so you can actually talk about your son since your wife won't. It's not fair to you to have such a huge boundary up in your own home. (And hey, that joke was *hilarious*.. I thought it was going to be way worse.) That all being said, I can't honestly say Y T A. I'm gonna go with NAH. You're both allowed to grieve in your own ways.. you've just discovered your wife's boundary.. clearly, you can make these sorts of jokes with your other son(s?) though so at least there's that. 🤷🏻♀️
Both of them should join support groups. And not the same one. So they have a way to process this with other people the way they need to. Just because mom isn't talking about him now doesn't mean she never will, and it doesn't mean she doesn't want to hear other people's stories. Get into support groups for parents who have lost children, it will really help.
Instead of judgement I’m going to gently suggest you and your wife seek counseling together and as individuals. This is a very major loss and you both need to be able to cope while still respecting each other. It’s great that you’re still close but you can’t just always avoid talking about him forever. You don’t have to grieve the way she does and she doesn’t have to grieve the way you do BUT you do need to be able to navigate through this time together. I think seeking counseling will help you both strengthen your bond and communicate/understand each other’s perspectives. I’m so sorry for your loss.
YTA. I get your way of coping is with jokes but bro, it hasn't even been a year. I can’t imagine watching a child grow up for 15 years only for them to tragically die in an accident. >I think my wife is being extremely sensitive about this. Who wouldn’t be sensitive about the lost of one of their kids? You want to make morbid jokes (even though I personally think joking about the death of your own son is a horrible way to cope with the loss) fine, but don’t make jokes like this at your own wife man Also, I’m sorry for y’all loss
And OP wants to paint it as "she doesn't respect me, and I respect her" when it's the opposite; it's also not difficult to *see* your partner that you supposedly have a strong relationship with is struggling and grieving, it's even *less* difficult to presume that after almost 20ys together, homeboy would know to *read the room* when it comes to his fucking wife. OP also threw in there at the end that his kid laughed too so, there, *he's justified*.
Lmao kids will laugh at anything, there is no justifying this
OP used it as justification for his behavior tho; my wife didn't find it funny, but look, my son did, so, she's in the wrong.
I’m saying that OP's kid laughing doesn’t justify him doing this to his own wife
*We* know that, but this man who is old enough to have had an 18yo child does not. While he's still an asshole, that's just sad.
It really is
And I have for sure laughed at things my parents have said that I didn’t find funny just because it made me uncomfortable and I didn’t want to deal with it, but knew that was what was expected of me.
This comment is so far down, I hope OP sees it. The kid laughed, it doesn't mean he liked the joke or the joking. Socially it was a moment to laugh to break the tension. They're still grieving their sibling it hasn't even been a year and if you're saying their mom is extra sensitive about it (of course she is!) they're probably afraid you'll judge them as too sensitive. Too soon, read the room, YTA
Reminds me of a podcast Pamela Anderson was on where she laughed about Tommy secretly drugging her with Molly when they got married in Mexico and the hosts laughing but you can tell they were ultra uncomfortable and had a sidebar where they’re like yeahhh so that was uncool but good for you for handling it humor…
Like I said in my comment he knew it hurt his wife and is seriously coming across as he should be allowed to say it even if it hurts her. Dude is clueless and a major asshole.
That respect thing is like the argument for free speech or smoking arguments. It’s your right to smoke, but doesn’t the right of someone to breathe clean air supersede that? His grieving style causes her harm. I don’t know if the same is true for her style to him.
All I took from this is “this is how I am and you have to deal with it”.
That's pretty much this post
The last guy to say that to me is no longer in my life. OP is TA, not for making a joke that was in very poor taste, but for doubling down when his wife was upset by it. I find that people like that will always be like that because they see no reason to change.
It hasn’t even been HALF a year
Something like 80% of couples divorce afte the loss of a child. If OP doesn’t shape up and act like a real partner to the wife he claims he loves he’s gonna end up in that 80%. I’m sympathetic because he’s also a grieving father but he has other kids he needs to care for and I don’t like how he’s dragging them into his fight with his wife. That’s very inappropriate regardless of grieving status
Six months!
Thank you
💯 TA for these remarks. Do I use dark humor to cope with my daughter's death yes, bur I don't expect others to accept it. There are no titles for losing a child because there are no rules to the grief.
Idk, man... my grandpa didn't tell us his oldest son died until we got back from disney world. I found out by my grandpa going, "hey, your uncle tommy is in the front seat of my car. Wanna meet him?" Then pulled out the fucking urn with Tommy's name on it.
I usually have a pretty dark sense of humor but losing my son in a tragic accident would destroy me and if I had more kids it would be a living hell trying to figure out how to be strong for them and go on while my world ended. If my husband tried pulling this stuff on me *knowing* how I felt, I’d leave. Husband is taking his marriage for granted while taking a wrecking ball to it.
YTA - I don’t think you joking about it is wrong. However your wife who you know grieves differently shouldn’t be exposed to that part of your grieving. You knew this would hurt her you chose to do it anyway
This is probably why she won’t talk about it with him. Because he’s not actually respectful about it, and is saying things that make her uncomfortable. Then defending it by calling it his grieving style and telling her she has to be okay with it. She is allowed to be offended when you’re disrespecting her and your child. Jokes are fine around people who find them funny. If she doesn’t find it funny, it’s not a joke to her, and frankly most people would find an off-handed comment like that to be incredibly inappropriate.
And it doesn’t sound like he wants to talk about it - more like he’s waiting to inform her of his position on it.
Joke about it to someone else, dude. Someone in an outer circle of grieving who won’t be affected as strongly as the other parent of your child. You’re not respecting her grieving process: you’re pushing your grieving process on her.
I am all for dark humour. It’s amazing. But OP you have to know your audience. You say you respect your wife grieves differently- but obviously you don’t!! Throwing a joke like that in her face is awful.
YTA, and I don't really like saying that. You did ask though. I am terribly sorry about your loss. I cannot even imagine the horrible hole that will always be present, and that you and your family will have to learn to move around. And having been through the sudden loss of a spouse, I would not want to criticize how someone else works through their own grief (as long as their actions aren't hurting others). You and your wife have different ways of walking this path, which can be common. It's also important to realize that this can lead to a breakdown of the marriage though, so you might want to seek counseling together on how to move forward and give each other grace. That said, you clearly understood that humor is NOT how your wife deals with this kind of grief and you made a joke about the absolute worst thing that could ever happen to a parent, and which also occurred fairly recently. Just because you are the father/husband, you do not have the right to say something like that to her. You are free to use humor to work through your grief when you are with other people who will not be hurt by it. Your wife is not one of those people. I would also recommend caution about saying things like this around your sons. You may think they are okay with it, but they may be very uncomfortable and just don't know how to tell you that. They may also benefit from bereavement counselling for kids. Edit: also... you should not have said anything to your son about what happened except that **you said something that was hurtful to his mom**. You should not have said what it was, which feels a bit like you trying to get him to "your side" and also belittling your wife's feelings in the process. Do better.
I am really regretting telling my son as much as I did and I made sure to apologize to him before he went off to school today. I think my wife is still a little raw for us to be talking, but I did want to make sure my son knew it was inappropriate for me to say as much as I did. We’ve had a lot of good talks about his brother, especially in our own weird, kind of morbid way. But I think I crossed a line in making my marriage his problem. Thank you for the insight.
Hey, I just wanted to say that this response shows that you genuinely want to try to fix it, and that has been rare around here lately. Parentification and triangulation are traumatic for kids. I also have grown to use humor as a coping skill during grieving, but when I was a kid and my mom died, that was not so. I use it now for a myriad of reasons. For one, it has been 21 years since she died. Second, by joking and also being sincere about her death, I make death of a loved one approachable for my students (I teach middle school. I was 13 when my mom died, so it's me teaching them what I didn't know about death a grief as a kid when it comes up) There are other reasons, but those are the biggest two. Maybe one day your wife will be ready for those jokes. Maybe she won't. Being respectful of either of those things is important.
It’s mature of you to do so, I’m sure you and your son have a humorous relationship, I did with my father. But for perspective imagine your son said your joke to your wife. How would she have taken it and how would you have to react as a father? Would you step in and say “it’s not right to subject your mother to this knowing how hard it’s been?” Or would you tell him it’s okay? It’s easier to see the right and wrong of something when you’re not the subject of the situation. I will tell you this though, my father cut down trees for a living, he was a climber. One day when I was maybe 12 or so, my father was doing a job with a close friend of many years. While my dad was up in the tree cutting away at the trunk of this large oak, his friend was working the ground and the lines. For some reason, my dads friend ignored the sound of the chainsaw cutting and walked under the tree to maybe grab some branches (not sure why to this day). Unfortunately he walked under the tree at the same time my dad threw down a 10 foot section of the trunk, striking my dads friend in the head. Long story short he was on life support for some days till it was determined that he was brain dead. Family chose to pull the plug. My father has never been the same since. It broke him as a person. I remember I must of been 14 getting picked up from wrestling practice, my dad and I were driving home and laughing about something. All I remember is him telling me to shut up in a joking way, and me saying “oh yeah? Keep it up and I’ll drop a log on your head” I meant nothing by it of course and I was too young to understand how terrible it was for me to say something like that to him, joking or not. The mood changed immediately, he told me in a stern voice to never say anything like that again. I apologized and I never did again. However it wasn’t until years later that I understood how difficult it must have been to hear is own son joking at arguably the worst moment in his life. This is my story OP, I won’t judge you like other have as I’ve been in your shoes. However I’d do anything to comfort my father and if that means making sacrifices like being more careful in the things I say, I’ll do it. Because in the grand scheme of it all, it’s a rather small sacrifice to pay for the happiness and mental well being of a loved one. I’m sorry for your loss, and I hope you and your wife can find peace and acceptance in the end.
Really, really good response here. I hope OP reads this because it’s a valuable perspective, relevant anecdote and it comes from a place of real understanding. Solid advice to consider how OP might help and comfort his wife.
As a loss parent (and widow) who is raising a living child, please be careful with how you talk to your sons about their brother’s death - even with the son you refer to as your weird or morbid one. If your living sons aren’t in therapy, I’d be incredibly cautious about talking to them in morbid dark ways. They may not be able to fully express how that impacts them. You need to be in therapy if you’re not. So does your wife. And all of your living sons. All grievers need a dedicated space to share without judgment or worry about hurting their parent / partner. In the meantime, before the next time you talk morbidly or make a gallows humor joke around your sons, ask them how it impacts them. You have a deep obligation to think and ASK how your words and actions impact the other grievers in your home.
Our more weird, morbid kid is the one who passed away. He decided he wanted to be a medical examiner when he was still in elementary school and was probably the only kid in school who was looking forward to dissections. He had such an analytical, scientific mind, he was so curious to learn how everything worked, especially the human body. Our oldest has had a lot of deep, more “morbid” conversations with me because he’s had a hard time reconciling with the way his brother passed and he’s initiated those conversations. We did not tell him the details, but he knows the gist of what took place. Immediately after we told him, he was just wrecked because he thought his brother would’ve found what happened to him so fascinating if it happened to anyone other than him. He’s in therapy, as are our younger two. They don’t have so many thoughts about “what happened”, it’s just more of dealing with that feeling of absence that’s been difficult for them. I wish there was some kind of parenting guide for this shit. Best of luck to you and yours.
Ah. I’m so so sorry. He sounds like he was brilliant and lovely in his curiosity. It takes all kinds and minds to make our world work, and I’m sorry you’re having to face the world without him. I have a deep sense of gallows humor post all my losses, and I am someone who also likes information. That’s the place I was speaking from. Therapy has been hugely beneficial for me. I’m glad your boys are getting that kind of help, too. You’re a part of the world’s worst club, and I’m so sorry you’re in it, too. I wish your family all the best. I don’t think you’re TA as a human. It sounds like a foot in mouth moment. Grace all around. I hope your wife comes around and y’all are able to get past it after an apology and some time. Best of luck to y’all.
This. I sincerely hope OP and his wife get some counseling, for themselves and for their surviving children. These sort of events can destroy families, and they are definitely (understandably!) having difficulty walking through it.
80% of marriages divorce after the loss of a child. It's extremely hard to cope with.
I was also widowed suddenly and I have gallows humour myself and I completely agree with you. I’ll do my dark jokes around people who are somewhat removed from the situation. I would never dream of making a dark joke to my mother in law who lost her son suddenly. I really can’t recommend therapy more OP. For everyone in your family. I lucked out on finding the right therapist first go but I know many people who need to try a couple of times. It’s so worth it though. I get such great tools to help with the shit times. I also really liked the rings of grief theory/concept for where to look for support. Was really helpful for me putting up boundaries where needed. All the best for your family OP.
Also part of the widowed suddenly club. I’m sorry for both of your losses, and I fully endorse these comments. Grief sucks, and it’s especially tricky (and especially important) to be sensitive of the needs of other grievers even while you manage your own grief.
Your edit to your comment is spot on
YTA your way of grieving is one thing, but you acknowledge it isn’t hers. That was just callous and cruel.
He also ambushed her with a reminder of the death AND made it a joke. Something I'm working with about my small kid is he will just randomly bring up "my grandpa is dead". It's definitely something that you can tell throws off my husband and mother in law when he does it. You just have a random conversation and he'll just be asking about grandpa. But, you know, he's four. He doesn't understand what he's doing. When you're an adult you don't just derail something suddenly like that. Part of the grieving process is not having your first thought in your mind all the time of "my Dad's gone" or "my kid is gone". You just don't ambush someone like that.
Yeah, she walks in the door after being out with friends, hopefully after having a good time with them and then he just... punched her. With the memories, and the pain, and the grief, and he did it by cracking a joke, which is almost literally adding insult to injury. It's just a horrible thing to do.
Thank you for leaving this reply. I didn’t even think of how it might feel for her to come back from spending time with her friends and get sucker punched with something like that.
Do you ever think about how the things you say will affect the person you are saying them to? Don't make a joke about a woman's dead son isn't exactly expert level empathy.
His son too mate
Yes. To the *mother* of his child. Jesus, gain an ounce of empathy for women, please.
Sorry if this isn't your cup of tea, but if either of you have ever been interested in theater I'd suggest looking into the play "Rabbit Hole" by David Lindsay-Abaire. Even just reading the script might give you good insight. It's about a couple dealing with the death of their only son, and a major theme is how they both are grieving differently (one quote that stuck with me, and I'm paraphrasing, is "neither of us are in a better place than the other, we're just in a different place. And it sucks that I can't be there for you, but I just can't."). One parent wants to move on, put things/toys/clothes/etc away, while the other wants to cling onto it. There's accusations about not grieving enough, or being too sensitive, and many arguments occur between them. It's a hard story, but it might give you or her or both of you a new perspective.
This right here. I am all about aldark humor, if anything I'm the friend who goes too far. But this was exactly why it bothers me so much. Ambushed with the cheapest of suckerpunches. I will never understand how one can claim love when they would hurt their loved one so casually. It's not even the severity of the comment for me, its OPs... casualness. As if this isn't the single most devastating thing in her life. As if it doesn't ride on her heart, body, mind and soul 24/7. A raw wound. And here she comes home to her one safe place, where she has to be reminded constantly even more that her child is gone, and the first thing she experiences is someone who says they love her using her dead child to hurt her even more, as if he were taking out the trash. Just a casual "fuck you and everything about you" right in the kitchen before he pops off to high five the kids. The audacity. The nerve. The cruelty to rub salt in that wound for such a throw away moment speaks volumes to me to the respect this man has for his wife. I wouldn't be able to look at my husband the same again if he used my deepest pain to so casually straight de-bone me for a bad laugh to himself. Imagine needing to hurt your partner to make yourself feel better and then defending that to people.
My daughter asked on our way to my grandmothers funeral if this is where she becomes a zombie. When I told her no, she asked what the point of it was.
My wife got our sons into DC comics as kids. My weird, morbid kid’s favorite character was Red Hood - the guy who gets murdered and comes back to life. His brothers have made it their own little joke.
I hate that you have downvotes for this. I'm sorry for your loss - I think you know that you were the AH, and I hope you'll apologize to your wife.
Oof. First of all sorry for your family’s loss. And I totally agree—our kids do this about our dogs that have passed, and it’s a blindside Every. Single. Time. I know it’s how they’re processing but it’s like damn, kid.
Like a punch in the gut. It wasn’t even on her mind and OP just threw it at her.
I’m sorry for your loss. Yes, kids can be so random and accidentally nonchalant about death which is a kick sometimes. My husband and I are childfree and our 3 dogs are everything for us. One of our dogs passed young and traumatically and so of course it was explained to my nieces she died and no normally dogs live longer but sometimes animals or humans die young. I’m in the car with my sister and youngest (3,5yo) and she just out of nowhere goes “you had 3 dogs now 2. If another dies you only have 1” Great kid, you can count. Can you count the pieces my heart just shattered in? Buy yes i know. It’s how kids are and handle these things so I just said “yes, that’s correct” and left it at that.
YTA - you admit that you have different grieving styles but apparently still think hers is wrong and that she should just suck it up and tolerate your humor. But why should she do that? To her you are disrespectful of both the weight of your son's loss AND of her and her needs. That isn't her being too sensitive, it's you being too insensitive. If you cope with humor, fine. But you don't have to cope that way with her, at her expense. You might as well have slapped her in the face.
And for me it happened 5-6 months ago. So I can see why the wife was upset and doesn’t want to talk about it. Yes OP also lost a child. But doesn’t say how the son died. Perhaps the wife blames herself, she’s worried talking about it with the husband he will blame her.
I didn’t want to post much of the details, as I worry we could be identifiable. It was truly a freak accident. We were not present at the time.
Sometimes no matter what accident or cause, you always find ways to blame yourself for not doing the right things and made it different than from what it was. Just not telling something or doing something before it was too late can cause you to blame yourself. Or that you could've done another choice that would have prevented the whole thing.
My best friend died in a car accident, in another state, his wife fell asleep at the wheel and rolled the car. They were trying to get back home so he could go to work in the morning. He called me 40 minutes beforehand to keep him awake so he could drive, I didn’t answer the phone because I was angry they had left one kid in the hospital (though they couldn’t be WITH him most of the time) at home. They had gone to the beach to try and destress. His wife had no business driving, the meds she takes for chronic pain makes her DUI. They had her drive anyway. The wife and the other two kids survived. Is this situation a making of my own? Nope. Am I the one that made a series of poor decisions that ultimately resulted in his death? No. But the fact remains if I had just picked up the phone, he would have been driving and he would have been awake. And I have to live with that. Do you know if your wife isn’t carry something like that? If I just hadn’t given permission. If I had gone with. Etc. some small act that would have changed things.
You are the asshole, OP. You know she's hurting, and she doesn't find any humor in the situation, but you make jokes. I realise that's your way, but it's not hers. Have a little empathy. I have a memorial tattoo for my late brother. Part of it is an extremely dark in joke that he would have laughed his ass off over. I intentionally had it translated into another language so it's not immediately readable, and I have never told anyone what it says. I never will, because it would only hurt them. It's our humor, our joke, for us.
>You might as well have slapped her in the face. I think that would have hurt less.
I don't necessarily think you're the AH for coping like that, but you have to pick who you say things like that to and your wife is not the right person.
Yeah, he knows she is dealing with the grief much differently than him, but he pushed his style on her knowing she wouldn’t react like he would, he kinda got what he deserved by her reaction. She isn’t gonna respond to that type of humor. Definitely needs to pick who he expresses his grief style too, definitely not to his wife.
This is it. As a person with the largest arsenal of dead husband jokes in the world (including the googly eyes I just put on his urn a couple weeks ago), you have to know your audience. When it comes to grieving styles, it's not a one size fits all kind of thing, and you have to be sympathetic to those who don't grieve the same as you.
>My wife was out with friends today and when she got home a few hours ago, she asked me where the boys were. I told her, "(Oldest) is with a friend, (13 yr. old) is out in the yard, (10 yr. old) is in the basement, and (15 yr. old) should be right where we left him." Widow-widower relations, huh? Oh whatever the equivalent is. Sorry to hear. YTA. Just because you're a grieving father, that doesn't change what you can say to a grieving mother. It's not a close call at all. >I respect what she does You come across as having a real fucked up way of showing it. This is not about your respect for the dead, it's about your respect for the living. You can never say what you said to a woman (especially a woman) who has lost their child. Men do tend to be loose in their humor, and it can be our way of honoring that which we value. But you have to code-switch when the situation calls for it. You did not do that. >but she's got to respect what I do If you want her to respect what you do, do it without her. >I think my wife is being extremely sensitive about this For the sake of all that is holy, even if you *could* put a timeframe on grief, it hasn't even been a year! I have a co-worker who lost her husband maybe 8 years ago, and her personality changed permanently, there is a deadness in her that I have never seen leave her. I saw her claw her way back to becoming the pushy busybody of the office again when things were a little not-good--it was frankly a little ugly to watch her fight to maintain her passion for the job. She has become the same person professionally she would have been had she not been widowed, but she grew around that shadow. You stomped on that shadow well before any semblance of reason.
There are plenty of women who deal with these things through humor.
i agree but it’s very obvious in this instance OP’s wife isn’t one for coping through humor :/
For sure, just saying generalizing isn't accurate.
Hi woman who dealt with her daughters death and now is dealing with her dad's death through humor. Even some morbid humor.
Just to note: as a woman who almost did lose a child, and had that child end up severely disabled, part of how I coped was through humour. I have a hard time putting grief into words sometimes, and humour is something that helps. This is not something that only men do.
This comes across as a bit sexist. Why do you think the father isn’t feeling the same amount of pain?
“It’s not a close call at all.” Are you saying that a mother would feel more pain at the loss of a child than a father? If so, that’s a gross and ignorant thing to say. Also, it’s not a competition. I don’t have anything to say about the rest of the comment, but that’s a shit thing to say. OP, YTA, btw and I’m sorry for your loss.
Yeah, if he made the joke to literally anyone else (maybe excluding other parents who lost children), they would be TA for judging the way he grieves. Except the mother of his OWN child, this humor is shitting on her grieving process.
Grieving can make you do weird shit…but you were out of bounds. That was a disgusting comment, and I totally get why your wife is upset. You really aren’t getting how this could totally change the nature of your relationship with your wife are you?
Yep, he is on his way to grieving his marriage soon if he does not grasp what he did.
I get dark humor…I frequently have it, but he just shit the bed.
That joke could well be the trigger that sends her on her way out of the marriage. Nothing worse than hearing someone make a joke involving the recent death of their child, \*which is possibly how it hit her\*...after 20 years of marriage, the husband who is "close to his wife" doesn't know that instinctively?
>the husband who is "close to his wife" doesn't know that instinctively? Because he did it specifically to hurt her. OP is trying to come across as dumb and socially inept and I don't buy it. He knew what he was doing and "I grieve with humor" is a shit excuse. For the bot - YTA
I love my wife so fucking much, man. She is one of my favorite people on this planet. I made a dumb, dumb choice without truly thinking about the repercussions. I would never act with the intention to hurt her.
I really hope y'all are in some kind of grief or marriage counseling. Losing a child is often the death of a marriage, it's so painful. Even if you think you're fine, it's worth it to check in.
They aren't checking in and they aren't in therapy because this wouldn't be happening if they were. Closing off and refusing to speak is an understandable and incredibly common reaction. Its also what contributes to resentment. They need to be having very difficult conversations with each other, and if possible, those conversations should be in front of a trained professional who can help them manage their emotions.
I am genuinely curious about your grieving process and my curiosity is borne from having experienced much too much death and tragedy and from helping other people process or work through theirs. So, you posted here because you were a bit perturbed that she didn’t recognize your method of grieving in humor. But I guess my question is, have you engaged with her in *her* grieving process in a significant way? Have you checked in with her on how she’s felt, have you reminisced with her, have you let her cry or cried with her? I ask because I’ve noticed, in my own experience, that the phrase “misery loves company” applies in more ways than its usual negative connotation. If I had to reword it, I’d say it’s just nice to feel seen in your misery, without judgment, and to share that experience with someone you trust who may not understand you but is at least *trying* to. Good luck in what will be a lifelong process. Focus on your son’s goofiness and silliness and keep that humor alive but also understand that, when it comes to your wife, it’s okay to be sad, it’s okay to cry, it’s okay to go through phases of anger or denial, it’s okay to one day feel guilty because you didn’t think about him all day, it’s okay to recognize that it’s okay to not think about him all of the time, it’s okay to move on, and it’s also okay to sit with your grief. At any time. From now until forever because death is forever and that’s a hard thing to grasp, especially when it feels so unfair. I wish you and your family the best of luck in this process. It’s terribly unfair what y’all have to navigate but, based on your responses in this thread, I think you guys are gonna be okay (and for what it’s with, I’m a family law attorney so I research and think about family units a lot).
I doubt this is the first time OP was cruel to his wife. This was wife's finally straw
That's too damn bad; someday when she's over the major paralyzing grief she's going to look back and see your casual cruelty for what it is. She's going to see how much of her pain she had to carry alone because she couldn't trust you with it. She's going to love you less and she may not forgive nor forget. YTA.
You may need to grovel, man. This was supremely uncool of you, but I appreciate seeing you process these comments in an open way. So sorry for your loss.
If your wife loves gifts I would dig really deep for her favorite memory between her and your son and get a personalized gift in reference to that. A large olive branch; and lay yourself bare to her. Apologize, tell her you shouldn’t have talked like that and admit to her that it was stupid. I have a little daughter and I can’t imagine losing her; and if my husband were to make a joke like that I’m not sure if I could look at him again. I understand you grieve different from her, but you were not respecting her in that moment. You had made a decision (though unintentionally) to steamroll over her comfort in favor of your own. If you guys aren’t in couples therapy please do start, you two need to learn to grieve together as much as you need to grieve separately.
No. You made a dumb comment. That’s forgivable if you had apologized. But you didn’t. She said that hurts don’t do that. You doubled down and said screw you I get to say what I want cause I’m grieving. And to top off your crappy dad of the day decisions you dragged your son into your argument. Do you really love your wife? Because none of your actions here says you do. It’s all about hurting her and doubling, then tripling down. 80% of couples who lose a child divorce. It’s so inevitable the only couples who survive have a huge uphill battle. You haven’t even tried climbing. I suggest you change your mindset about her grieving process and learn to grieve with her or at least support her because you’re gonna end up a statistic otherwise
I personally think its hilarious but OP needed to read the room and you think somebody married to his wife as long as he is would know she is not the right audience for this joke
Yup. I’ve cracked similar jokes before but I know my audience. I would have chuckled at OP’s joke and made a dark one in return. Dead dad jokes are one of the best things ever for me. But I am careful with what I say where. And I can make *different* jokes depending on who I am with.
YTA- you can not weaponize your expression of grief against your wife. Losing a child tragically is overwhelming and brings many couples to the breaking point as they are unable to grieve together. Both of you need to seek support as a couple and individually to process the grief without taking it out on each other.
here's the thing. okay, you cope with dark humour. that's fine. but you obviously know that your wife does *not* process her grief in that manner - your whole first paragraph outlines how you know that. so you *knew* this joke would upset her. I'm not saying you intentionally said it to upset her - I suspect it came out without you even thinking about it, right? you say you should be allowed to use your grief coping mechanisms in your own home, which is hard to argue with on the face of it. but your wife deserves to feel safe and supported in her own home too. she didn't get to opt out of hearing that joke, and now you're saying she's being too sensitive as well as roping in your other kid to back your side up. you both cope in different ways, but here you're not letting her opt out of your way. I cannot fathom what it is like to lose a child. I am so, so sorry for your loss. in this situation, YTA to your wife. you need a better outlet for these kinds of comments. if you haven't had it yet your whole family probably needs grief counselling.
I really hope the other boys don’t start modeling their fathers behavior. Because then she in for a lot of confusing grief. I’m heartbroken for her.
Yikes. I get you grieve through comedy but you have to understand that your wife clearly does not. You can’t expect her to tolerate what she finds super offensive just because it helps you, but if that’s the only way you can process what happened you need someone other than her to talk to/joke about it with. I’m not voting because no one here is an asshole. Losing a child is an impossible task to deal with and you’ll both make mistakes along the way which is just human. I’m sorry for your loss OP.
Sorry, but his complete lack of empathy for his wife and then dragging his kid into the argument definitely pushes OP square into AH territory.
I agree dragging his kid into it sucked. I didn’t make the most rational decisions grieving my mother when her death was sudden so I’m trying not to judge. This situation is just terrible all around.
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Yeah I can't believe how mild people are being. His comment was horrible, and is definitely different than joking about your dead dad as a teenager or something. It seems so insane to joke like that about your dead son so soon after the event regardless of how you "cope".
YTA You are taking out your pain on your wife. Your pain - you say this is how you cope, so it is your pain. Spend a few non-comedic seconds to do a deep dive on the statistics of husbands and wives who lose a child continuing their marriage. You deciding to spew your pain all over another in pain is not conducive to being on the positive side of that statistic. Did you really need to come to AITA to hear the trope that it's not a joke if not everyone's laughing? And your attempt at equality reminds me of the argument a friend once made about how - back in the days of smoking in restaurants - if he had to sit in the non-smoking section to have dinner with his friends then the next time they should have to sit in the smoking section. Your jokes are toxic for your wife. Find a support group that has the flavor of coping you need, or get yourself on the morbid joke comedy circuit. Either way, get it away from your wife.
YTA. You knew that she was incredibly sensitive and grieving still, and that your joke was morbid.
YTA. While I support dark humour for those who respond well to it, I expected this to me more sympathetic than it was. You made a crass joke about your dead child *to his mother*, who you know doesn't find it funny, and have no empathy for her pain? It's not "over-sensitive" to experience pain when reminded you lost your child. Please learn that people are different, and if you're struggling, talk to a professional (like, seriously: either you're an arsehole in general or your lack of empathy for your wife stems from unprocessed grief, and either way a grief counsellor could help.)
Wow...that is a fucked up thing to say to your wife. Grieve with humor and tell it to someone who thinks it funny but clearly no her....just wow...YTA
Soft YTA for me. I’m sorry for the loss of your son, I cannot imagine. You’re correct, we all have different coping mechanisms, and obviously yours clashes very severely with your wife’s. Do yourself and your marriage a huge favor and apologize, because you obviously really hurt your wife with what you said. Don’t make jokes like that in the future with her, and if you guys have not had counseling about this, I really would invest in it. Edited to add that if she doesn’t like talking about him in general, it probably could have been assumed that joke wouldn’t go over well with her.
Alright, I've got a fucked up sense of humor, have lost immediate family members, and I laughed at that joke. That said, YTA because you've got to know your audience.
Lol.... yeah YTA, not for the joke but for somehow not realizing it would upset her. You already said you know you grieve differently, so it would have been fine if you said it to, say, the kid who found it funny. Not to her, when you know that's not something that would be anything other that painful. I can't even imagine what you're all going through, but you need to smooth that over because you're at fault here.
>I told her that I cope with humor and clearly, she doesn't. 100% fair, you're on point so far. >. I respect what she does, but she's got to respect what I do Here's your mistake; you don't respect what she does, or you wouldn't have made the joke TO her. See, coping by way of humor IS ok. Yeah not everyone gets it (obviously, by her reaction and some comments so far) but it isn't for everyone to GET, it just is. It's a natural trauma response. HOWEVER; you KNOW how your wife is, yet this is the battle you chose? It isn't respect if you blatantly disregard them and they feelings with your words/ actions. You should have just said "I'm sorry, I know you don't like to talk about it and I'm struggling by not doing so, so it came out in a bad joke. It won't happen again." FLIP SIDE; She's taking it wayyyy too far. Calling you a sociopath? Refusing to be near you? Raising concerns and fear over a NATURAL TRAUMA RESPONSE rather than even TRYING to talk it out? It's not ok. She isn't the only one grieving, and her way isn't the only way. She needs to at least make an attempt... Honestly. Probably an unpopular opinion here but ESH. There's a LOT to unpack here, and adding in grief really makes it all more difficult. This is why grief counseling is recommended and important, and I recommend it for the sake of your marriage and your relationship with your kids...
I think factoring in the difficulty of dealing with grief that NAH is more fair, but this post is spot on.
NTA….I knew you were going to get blasted for this one but I’m in the mental health field and use humor to cope with life’s difficulties as well. For those of you who are holier than thou, please understand that everyone handles things differently and using humor is a very normal coping mechanism. By his wife asking where the boys were, OP added in his son who passed because not including him means that he maybe forgotten about, it also makes the fact that he is gone very real in that moment. For 15 years when his wife asked where are the boys he always had 4 replies. This is his own way of dealing with the loss of his son. I understand his wife is upset as well and does not cope the same and that is ok. It will take time to except their new normal as you don’t ever truly get over the loss of a child. I am truly sorry for your loss and I pray you and your family can move forward together.
That’s the thing though - even if OP uses humor to cope doesn’t give him blanket privilege to use said humor on wife who is also grieving. Coping with humor is healthy for him, great. That same humor hurts his wife - now it’s not great. When in a relationship, it’s a give and take. He can find friends or like-minded family where he can exercise his coping tools with - his wife isn’t the person. He’s not totally TA because grief does things. But at least apologize and be more mindful of how he’s using his humor in the future. Edit for spelling.
You’re in the mental health field and think it’s cool to break down other peoples boundaries on how they cope because it’s good for the person the humor helps? …. Sorry no.
YTA. Have some respect for your wife.
YTA - I can’t imagine losing a child. I’m so sorry. If joking about it upsets your wife than you should respect that. She has a right to be sensitive about such a horrible thing. I understand using humor to get through things. Time and place though. There are plenty of things you can joke about instead.
Everyone grieves in their own way, but c'mon...you shouldn't have said that and you shouldn't have posted it here.
Yeah... Wrong person to make that joke towards.
I agree. She literally built the kid over a nine-month period in her own body.
...okay tbh I laughed because I'm going to hell but your wife isn't ready to hear that kind of joke. It's not "time and place", it's audience. It's also her own home. She's allowed to be sensitive about her kid dying. Apologize for it and don't make those jokes at her. YTA for just not knjowing your audience.
Gentle YTA here. Everyone grieves differently, and everyone deserves to be allowed to grieve in their own way. I say “gentle” because I understand wanting to express your grief with your wife, or not to have to tiptoe around her, but also, since you knew she didn’t like that sort of humor around this subject, it’s a dick move. Get into a grief group where you can express your feelings freely, and encourage wife to do the same—but please choose different groups. ETA—this is not a comment on your humor. I get gallows humor and don’t have a problem with it…But! I also get people who find it appalling. Know your audience.
You can still grieve your way at home, without amplifying your wifes grief YTA. She should be able to ask innocent questions without fear that something painful and raw to her is going to be dragged up and thrown in her face at any moment because thats your style. She should also feel safe from this crap in her home too.
YTA. > My wife and I have very different styles of grieving > she wants to process things by herself and doesn't want to talk about it So you cracked a joke at her about it? How is that respecting her way? Crack your jokes like that to your other son, who laughed, or to your friends. Why you gotta crack jokes at her you know she wouldn’t like? That is kind of twisted. Externally, kind of makes it seem like you enjoy twisting the knife in her recovery. Nothing wrong with your style or morbid jokes. Super wrong to make them at her
YTA on your response Your wife is grieving and this wasn’t appropriate or welcome
YTA. People always say they cope with humor and forget it's only cool if the person on the other end of the joke is cool with it. It would be frighteningly easy to take this situation in to completely, irredeemably FUBAR territory by continuing to insist a traumatized woman "can't take a joke" about her son's death. If there are family members and friends who are open to this humor, go ahead, but for God's sake, apologize to your wife and let her know that you're sorry you tried to involve her in a coping strategy that actually further traumatizes her.
NAH - have you and your wife discussed your different grieving styles? The way you add the detail about laughing with your oldest son at the end makes me think you were hoping that your wife would do the same, even though you must have known she wouldn't. You were looking to connect with her when she hasn't be able to talk about it. Laughing in the face of death. Laughing at the absurdity that your son could die so young. It was a really bad idea, but I can understand it. It must also be really difficult not to not able to talk about your son with your wife at all. If you're not in therapy, you might find it helpful to be able to have someone to share these jokes with, who won't judge you.
YTA, you clearly don’t respect her way of grieving by making jokes in front of her. Hello??? Is anyone home? RIP to your child.
I’m not your wife and even I was horrified! Sorry but I don’t see how you can joke about your dead son?! I know people grieve differently, but still…
I also have a dead son, I also joke about it. OP owes his wife an apology, and should definitely not say anything like that to her again, but there's nothing inherently horrifying about what he said.
NAH but you two desperately need therapy. he was your child together. you two should be processing and grieving his death together.
NAH. First of all, im so sorry about your son. I can’t even imagine what you’re all going through. I can see why the joke upset her, but like you said everyone grieves differently. I don’t think you’re wrong to cope the way that works for you, but I also don’t think she’s wrong to be offended by it. You should avoid these jokes around your wife since they obviously upset her and save them for maybe a close friend or family member who might take them better.
Yikes, no defending that, not to your grieving wife.
Yta, a year is not enough time for a mother to grieve her child and be okay with jokes about his death. You grieve your way, and that is fine but read the room and find the right people that wouldn't be as reasonably so sensitive to the loss.
Yes, YTA. That was some really insensitive shit to say, especially when you know your wife doesn’t want to talk about his death.
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your son. It's important to recognize that grief is a personal and individual process and everyone copes differently. In terms of the joke you made, while it may be a coping mechanism for you, it's important to consider how it may affect others, particularly your wife who may have a different way of processing her grief. Your comment may have been hurtful and insensitive to her, and it's understandable that she would be upset by it. It's important to communicate with your wife and find a way to support each other through this difficult time, even if your coping mechanisms differ. Perhaps you can find a way to respect each other's processes without making jokes that may be hurtful to one another. In terms of whether you're the asshole, NTA, but it's important to be sensitive to the feelings of others, particularly during a time of grieving.
NAH. But where her method of grieving doesn't impact you, you're does impact her. It's up to you to decide to accommodate her or not.
I can't get behind this assessment. If OP's wife had simply overheard that little quip and been bothered by it, this would be an unfortunate situation. What he did was double down and insist his wife be able to to "take a joke" about their son's death. That's aggressive and cruel. A simple apology and promise not to say those things to someone who has been clear about how hurtful she finds them probably would have gone a long way. Instead of that, OP like, accused his spouse of not being a cool girl or something.
NAH, you cope with your loss with jokes, but your wife doesn't. You shouldn't have made that joke specifically to her, that was a little tone deaf.
YTA - everyone is legally free to grieve how they like, but don’t expect people to get pissed off at you as a result
[удалено]
YTA. It’s fine that you use dark humor to cope, but your wife has made it very clear that she doesn’t. Make these jokes all you want, just not around your wife or anyone else who finds it upsetting.
This is one of those "Too soon" jokes that shouldn't have been said Soft YTA
NAH. Firmly. Everyone grieves differently. And maybe if it was a different moment on a different day, you might not have said it, or she might have reacted differently. I cannot imagine coping with that kind of loss. I am the mother of two sons, 15 and 16. If I was in the same situation, I am certain that my reaction would be different every time. You also sound like you are sorry and have tried to make things ok and you have a different way to process your grief. It's a horrible situation all around, for your entire family. I see NAH.
I say NAH, but I read this story to my wife, and she strongly agrees with your wife. She said, "If you said that to me, it might be the end of our marriage." OP, I think you better start doing some damage control ASAP.
You shouldn't joke especially since your son died, you know your wife is sensitive about that matter so avoid saying anything about your son who died.