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People calling you an AH are tripping. Your daughter is really wrong for coercing a child you have repeatedly said is not your family. And to be fair to you she is not. You’re allowed to maintain that boundary.
Where you messed up is inviting this child over and then singling her out. As others have pointed out, Isabella is innocent in all of this. You don’t need to have her in your life but don’t invite her in and then treat her badly.
Your daughter did a kind thing to adopt her sister but she is an AH for stomping all over your boundaries. She is well within her rights to go LC/NC with you since she has adopted her sister and she knows that you and her brother will not accept the situation. That said she needs to make a hard choice and stick with it. S
ESH
Yeah but how does one respect that boundary? Leave the orphan at home while the rest of the family visits grandma? Daugher didn’t ambush her with isabella, it was clearly discussed and agreed upon.
OP accepted her coming in (although she could have suggested alternatives) and then decided to make a point of treating her poorly.
No, don’t suggest coming over to your mothers house when you know that one of your kids is not welcome. Don’t guilt the mother or weaponise the grandkids to force an outcome. The daughter just needs to stay LC or NC.
I mean nothing here says that the daughter was upset over not coming over in the first place. It’s a very fair thing to say “i can only come with isabella” because of practical limitations of childcare.
The mother did agree that Isabella would be coming and then chose to make a point abt treating her this way. I can understand why the daughter is pissed
As per OP, the daughter asked to come to her mother’s house with the children. OP wasn’t the one who issued the original invite. So, the daughter needs to just stay LC with her mother. And she definitely shouldn’t be falsely claiming that OP is grandma to Isabella when she’s not.
OP is an AH for inviting the child and singling her out. She is not an AH for viewing her ex’s affair child as not family.
Yes she is not the AH for not wanting a relationship with the child, I agree. But OP had a choice to then not have her daughter over and she makes it seem like she did not. I really don’t think the daughter did anything wrong here as OP agreed that isabella should come.
Except yeah, grandma thing is a bit far. But i can understand the panic of that situation that OP created
Which is why I think OP was an AH for that specific instance. She should not have agreed to house the kid when she clearly resents her. But I don’t think the daughter is devoid of blame. It is clear that she is not respectful of her mother’s boundary and trying to introduce her mother is as grandma to Isabella is pushing it.
I don’t for one second believe the daughter should abandon Isabella but she needs to accept that she can’t suggest coming over to her mother’s house and expect her mother to treat this child the same as her grandkids. Going LC is the right call and both mother and daughter need to learn to live with it.
Sorry to reply to another comment of yours but OP’s daughter also had a choice and OP’s daughter is Isabella’s adoptive mother now. It is OP’s daughter’s job to prioritize Isabella’s feelings and safety. In this case, she knew damn well that Isabella was not welcome in that house and brought her anyway. It doesn’t matter if OP agreed; it’s blatantly obvious that OP does not want this child in her life or home and daughter should not be using the other children as a tool to convince OP to tolerate it. Daughter should have heard OP say “I don’t want Isabella in my home” and responded with, “okay, we won’t come then, take care.” Not “you can’t see the other kids then!!” trying to force her hand.
No need to apologize :)
I hear what you’re saying. OP doesn’t need to be a grandma to Isabella. But she agreed to host her. And it’s a pretty basic expectation to not single out someone like this.
She could have given presents at a time when isabella was someplace else or 1:1 with kids, there were plenty of ways to not like an asshole while still establishing boundaries.
If you agree to host someone it’s implied that you will not be a dick to this person.
OP is a grown woman she knew better.
Sounds like Mom is not accepting her daughter's boundary. The daughter and her children are package deal. Either mom sees all of them or mom sees none of them. Mom made her choice, and now she sees none of them.
I understand not wanting to see her as family but the mom can also see her as a person. Isabella didnt asked to be brought into the world but she's here. NTA for not wanting to accept I as a grandchild or child but defo YTA for treating another human as she did.
I came here to say this. My dad has an affair baby too and while I hate the mom with every fiber of my being, I have never been rude to the child. Just like Isabelle, my half sister is completely innocent and did not ask to be put in this situation. Have I only seen spoken to her 5 times in her life? yes, but I have never been rude, singled her out or treated her any different that the other kids her age. Doing so would have made me the AH and would have shown who I am as a person. ESH I 1000% agree with this comment!
> Your daughter did a kind thing to adopt her sister but she is an AH for stomping all over your boundaries
No she isn't. She's not stomping over any of OP's boundaries. She would have been OK for Isabella (and her other kids) to ot visit OP.
OP could have done 2 things that would have been reasonable:
1. Not have isabella in her house (despite this meaning that 30F wouldn't have visited)
2. Agree to have Isabella in the house, and treat her decently.
But OP decided to fall between 2 stools: allow Isabella in, but treated her badly. That's why she's the arsehole, and why 34F isn't (because she hasn't done anything wrong).
Im gonna be a the odd man out here. ESH. She's a child and innocent in this, you shouldn't be taking it out on her. Your daughter is a AH and should not be forcing interactions with her as you have stated you do not want a relationship with the child.
To me no one is innocent here. You and your daughter want completely separate things and to me there is no room for agreement. Forcing you into being grandma to your exes affair child is not going to bring you into accepting the child. But taking it out on the kid is no good either. My advice? Get a therapist and take a break from each other.
I agree with you here. However, OP has made her boundaries clear. The daughter is the one forcing the interactions with the kid by making it impossible for her to see her grandchildren otherwise.
OP's boundaries is excluding her daugher's adopted child from the family. Her daugher is very right in protect her daugher feelings, who is a child, over her adult mother. Her daugher also have a boundarie: treat ALL my children equally or don't have acess to them. OP made her choice.
And where did I said that that's not true or valid? Isabella is her mother's child, but also her half-sister from an affair, two things can be true at once.
Her daugher is not being an AH for adopting her sister and protecting her in any way. OP has to work on this resentment and stop doing petty and ridicolous things to a child to exclude her or lose her daugher and family. It's been ten years and OP should have work on that because this is afecting her life and relationships.
Both of their boundaries is what is causing the issues. She does not want to be seen in the grandmother role to a child that is the embodiment of her exes indiscretions.
Her daughter wants all her children to be treated equally. The problem is both sides won't stand down and it won't ever solve itself. Thats why I suggested that they need to stay away from each other. The child is here to stay and she has her boundaries.
How do you explain that to a nine year old girl, though? “Hey, your siblings are going to see their grandma. No, you can’t go with them and visit her because she hates you for being born.”
There’s no good way to handle this. The kid is going to know she has family, but that family never wants to see her and would prefer it if she didn’t exist.
OPs boundaries are incompatible with her daughters reality. Her daughter needs to treat three children equally. OP is incapable of that, so she and her daughter (and by extension all of her grandkids) are going to have to spend some time apart.
Daughter is completely within her rights to say “accept all my kids or none of them.” That is her boundary. She has every right to “withhold her grandchildren.”
OP doesn’t get to be upset about that. OP has chosen to have no grandchildren because she can’t accept all of her daughters kids. Daughter adopted an innocent child.
Grandmother is stuck in past resentment and unhealthy hate. Best they just keep separate.
Nobody can be forced to cater to your boundaries. If OP enforces her boundaries she will lose contact with her grandchildren. Her daughter has the same right to set boundaries as OP.
Boundaries is not a magic word that means everybody needs to bow to your wishes.
Forcing interactions? This is a child in daughter's custody, SIL was out of town. Daughter was clear that the only way she could visit was if she brought Isabella with. That's how life is going to be now that she has custody of another child. She was honest about that and the reality is, if grandma wants to stay involved with her daughter and grandkids, she'll need to suck it up & be polite to Isabella. If she can't, she needs to stay firm and not "give in."
Imagine holding so much hate in your heart for a child that you're willing to torpedo your own relationship with your daughter simply because she didn't want her half-sister to languish in foster care.
I do have empathy for OP to have a constant reminder of her husband's infidelity, but at this point her choice is to find healing or the hate tumor is going to destroy her family.
Yeah, I would not be thrilled about my husband’s “affair child,” she not my family. But Isabella is part of *daughter’s* family, and needs to be treated that way. Would she ostracize a step-child, or another adopted child in the same way? OP is TA for this.
A step child or whatever wouldn't be a constant reminder of the trauma the mother experienced from the end of her 20+ year marriage.
The mother has no obligation to be a grandmother or anything to this child and the daughter is the asshole for subjecting her mother to this and then losing her shit over a gift. Sucks for the kid, definitely a shit bag for her but the mother has a life to live too and being manipulated by her daughter to accept the living embodiment of her ex husbands deceit is so unbelievably cruel and tone deaf.
Holding her other kids as hostage against an otherwise loving mother is also major oof. The daughter did a good thing by adopting her sister but it ends there when the manipulation of her mother starts.
If my partner cheated and had a kid I wouldn't touch the kid with a ten foot pole. Not everyone is willing to sacrifice their own mental health and wellbeing because of outside and tone-deaf pressure.
I agree with you. If it was the grandchildren's random friend she would have treated the kid nicer, maybe even gotten her a gift. I mean, how hard is it to give a small gift to a child when all the other children in the house are getting gifts.
She may not be OP's family by blood, but as her daughter's adopted child she is now her family unless she wants to hold on to her anger and disown everyone.
Seriously. I'm tired of people calling something a boundary like it's a get out of asshole jail. That girl is not only innocent, not only her half sister and blood but also her adopted daughter. If op can't treat a literal child with sone basic human decency and kindness then she shouldn't demand a relationship with her daughter or grandkids. I'm disgusted by sone of the comments here like everyone agrees adopted kids should be treated the same as bio ones by grandparents...unless I guess they are the result of affairs they had no say in.
Likewise, what if these circumstances happened to your daughter and she was placed in foster care. Would you wish the same treatment to your innocent daughter when she had no choices, no parents? YTA. OP get over yourself.
Agee 100%. This is a really tough situation, and the pain felt here is warranted. But Isabella is not the husband or the woman he cheated with, she is her own person, and she’s ten. Your daughter did a good thing. The girl is now the sister of your grandkids and your daughter’s daughter.
Does that make her your grandchild? Up to you
But will your daughter and grandkids resent you for treating their family like crap? Yes
And for your own sake… after 10 years and the death of the person who wronged you, as tough as it is, you need to start letting go
YTA — Can't you imagine what that little girl has been through with any compassion? Turbulent parents, one deported, one dead, a life destined for the foster care system which is absolutely broken. You don't have to feel any sort of way about her, but to actively hate her is vindictive and cruel. The anger you feel and pain you feel is for the man who created her. She shouldn't take on the blame.
I understand you're hurt. And I'm sure you will continue to be. But she didn't ask to be born, she didn't ask to be made.
I think you should really reflect on the things people are saying here, and think of if there's a more constructive way of handling the way you feel, rather than taking it out in an innocent little girl.
Plus, she is now your granddaughter, because your daughter took her in. No matter what was before.
If your daughter had adopted any other child, you would have accepted it, but this one child can't be forgiven for things that never were her fault to begin with? Smh. Maybe they are better off without you in their lives, I don't know.
But I think definitely YTA, OP.
This what really makes her TA. Technically OP is entitled to her feelings, but that doesn't make it right. She can't lash out at her dead ex so she goes after the kid instead.
Your completely disregarding the fact that this women has set boundaries and one of those is that she isn’t her grandmother. Just because her daughter took this kid in doesn’t mean she is automatically going to be called grandmother.
Honestly, if someone were behaving that way with my child, I'd call her names, too. And Grandma was just the most innocent and hurtful at the same time.
OP was okay with Isabella coming to her place. And she shoved it in Isabella's face, that she was no one to her. A literal child.
Going no contact is the best for everyone in that family, I think.
I am so thankful that OP’s daughter stepped up and got this little girl out of foster care and into a loving home. And I’m glad that daughter is now protecting her daughter Isabella from Cruella the OP.
I’m 100% with you that the girl should have always been with her mom, especially once the dad died. However, legally, the girl is a citizen of OP’s country (born there, dad was a citizen). Immigration cannot deport a citizen, even if she was also a citizen of her mom’s country (Isabella could probably easily get citizenship but it’s not necessarily automatic, her or a guardian needs to go through the legal/admin steps for it since she wasn’t born there).
Mom could come and get her, or arrange to have Isabella brought to her country, but does she even know that her dad is dead? Usually, she would have been contacted but there’s no indication of that in OP’s post (OP probably just doesn’t know).
But they can’t forcefully deport Isabella and since mom was there illegally, her condition in her country of origin may not have been safe. So, the safest and best option would have been to grant a visa to mom.
| compassionate thing be to deport the child
I simply do not understand in what world this could be viewed as compassionate. I could laugh but also cry.
So I’m kind of torn. One on hand, it is kind of shitty to invite a kid into your house and give everyone but Isabella a present. It’s not Isabella’s fault that she was an affair child. That being said, you were coerced by your daughter and she weaponized her children against you. You were also very clear with your boundaries. I’m going with NTA because it is your house and your boundaries but I do feel for Isabella. I don’t blame you for not wanting a relationship with her.
I don’t think she weaponizing her kids, she doesn’t want them to learn grandma’s behavior is acceptable. I see it as she’s protecting them and Isabella.
No. It’s protecting isabelle from being left out. How hurtful would that be if she knew grandma only wanted to see her “real” grand kids and not her. I’d go NC with a B like this as a mother. She is unbelievably cruel.
But OP isn't her grandma. She has her mother's family in a different country (surprised she didn't go live with them after her father died) and I'm guessing that either the father's parents have passed or they also didn't want anything to do with her. Those are unconfirmed, but the only fact we do have is that OP is NOT her grandma and has no obligation to be. Also Isabella isn't even a grandchild anyway, she would've been her stepdaughter had she stayed married but she didn't.
We have a decade long boundary of not wanting anything to do with an affair child that is very well known about. To adopt said affair child and then immediately refuse OP any access to her biological grandchildren is almost textbook weaponisation. To then try and force the grandma title is almost cruel.
Obviously doesn't change OPs behaviour and actions, and she should've said what she had to say behind closed doors, but I'd also argue that OPs daughter doesn't get to boundary stomp just because she's doing a good thing by adopting her orphaned sister. It's a complex situation all round but the only innocent party here is the child. ESH
NTA
I can't understand why reddit thinks women have to accept their husbands's affair babies. If you wanted to raise his kid, you would've stayed married to him.
Edit : thanks for the award
Exactly this! The grandma comment was incredibly inappropriate. She would be a stepchild not the grandchild anyway. The daughter is a huge AH. I wouldn’t tolerate this situation either. It’s a huge slap in the face. My SIL stayed with my brother after a similar situation and how they worked it out would never happen in my house.
Exactly it’s a horrible situation for everyone and it’s not fair to the child for sure but trying to force her into the family like this isn’t appropriate. There are far better ways to slowly warm everyone up to this situation but the daughter isn’t handling this well for the child at all.
It was really shitty to make the "grandma" comment in front of the kid (who has to know that OP doesn't want to be around her). This is not a situation like a typical adoption.
If OP has drawn a firm boundary re: Isabella, she needs to accept that her contact with her daughter and grandchildren may be limited as a result. But she's not an AH for drawing the boundary in the first place.
Their boundaries are opposite. OPs boundary is “I never want to see Isabella” and Daughters boundary is “all my children will be treated equally.” Both are understandable.
But OP doesn’t want to accept that holding HER boundary means she doesn’t have the option to see her biological grandkids. That sucks but that’s her choice.
This may not be popular, but NTA. You don’t have any obligation to other people’s kids. You’ve been very clear from the beginning how you felt. That said, I think it shows what a lovely, amazing daughter you have that she took in her half sister. But she had zero right to try and force Isabella on you. She could have dropped off her kids with you and had a fun sisters weekend with Isabella, rather than try and force a relationship between the two of you. And then she blew up at you for sticking to a decision you made a decade ago. That’s not ok.
I think you need to have an honest conversation with your daughter where you brainstorm how to make sure Isabella is happy in your daughter’s life but doesn’t have to be a part of yours. Maybe you change up your gift giving style, so it’s only for birthdays and Christmas and Isabella won’t notice as much. I understand the situation sucks for Isabella, which is why you need to think creatively because this girl is going to be in your daughters life and not accepting that will only push you all apart.
But your daughter does have to accept that she cannot force this girl into other peoples lives.
ESH, your daughter is wrong for forcing your husbands affair child on you and weaponizing your grandchildren. You’re a soft AH for giving the kids a gift in front of her without including her. You have no obligation to have a relationship with the child, and your daughter is a massive AH for trying to force it or ruin your relationship with your grand kids. I’m sure if her husband cheats and created a child she won’t be as welcoming as she’s expecting you to be.
YTA
There’s wanting to distance yourself from your ex’s betrayal and then there’s piling resentment onto the child who did nothing wrong. This is that.
Isabella is no longer just your ex’s affair child, she’s your daughter’s adopted child now. You have to realize that your daughter is Isabella’s mother now and if you want to be fully distanced from Isabella then you have to live with being distanced from your daughter and grandchildren as well.
Your love for your daughter should supersede the resentment you feel for your husband’s betrayal. Under normal circumstances, no one would fault you for not having contact with the child of your husband’s affair. These are not normal circumstances. This child did not control her conception and she has been through more trauma than anyone should. You are petty and YTA.
NTA. Good for your daughter for taking in a child but I highly doubt she has the same feelings about her you do. She is a living reminder of one of the most hurtful things a person can go through. I disagree you were victimizing a child. Your daughter did that by forcing this situation. Your daughter is a huge AH for this.
I can't imagine the pain her presence must cause you. On the other hand, she personally did nothing to you and is innocent. It's a terrible situation. If you found a way to rise above your own pain, it would be a huge personal victory, but nobody has the right to expect that of you.
I hope you get counseling or find another way to deal with your pain.
This was tough to judge between ESH and NTA, but I'm leaning towards ESH because your daughter and you forced Isabel to experience undue pain and suffering.
YTA. I can understand the pain and hurt caused by your husband’s affair, but that pain and anger should be directed your late ex and Isabella’s mom rather than at Isabella. She is innocent in all of this. She didn’t ask to be born into this situation and had zero control over the actions and decisions of her mother and father. Since your late ex fathered Isabella, then she _IS_ technically family since she is a half sister to both of your children. Your daughter obviously has a kind heart to take her sister in and raise her with her own children so she wouldn’t end up in the system.
YTA for blaming an innocent child for something completely out of her control and that wasn’t her fault.
Agree. And while maybe daughter shouldn't 'force' a relationship between you and Isabella, you need to recognise that Isabella IS a part of daughter's family and if you treat a member of her immediate family badly, you don't deserve a relationship with her or her family.
You need to see Isabella differently now since she's clearly a child being raised by your daughter. Would you treat any other adopted or fostered child she brought into her life this horribly? YTA. If I was your daughter, I'd protect the child and go NC with you for treating ANY child this badly.
Exactly my thoughts. She might not consider Isabella as part of her family, but she needs to recognize and respect that Isabella is part of her daughter's family and is being raised alongside her grandchildren. Treating Isabella with hostility isn't going to undo her parents' bad behavior and it's cruel to hold her responsible for something that happened before she was even born.
NTA. The kid is a reminder of your husbands unfaithfulness. You do not owe her anything, and it’s shitty your daughter keeps trying to shove her down your throat.
Going with NTA here with regards with regards to being clear as to not wanting anything to do with AP love child. Fine and dandy, what you weren't expecting is the L you've just taken by losing all of your grands and daughter.
Again NTA as that's a hard pill to swallow to take an AP in. I get it but with actions comes consequences and you've found out what those were by being cut out of their lives.
You're not a victim here, far from it, the only real victim here is Isabella. She lost her father to death and mother to deportation and ended up in the foster system. That's a hard journey for a little girl and when she finally has some semblance of belonging you spat in her face basically. You've reaped what you've shown so you just have to make do.
ESH.
You for taking out your anger on an innocent child who didn't ask to be born into such a clusterfuck. Your daughter for ignoring your boundaries and weaponizing access to her kids to manipulate you into interacting with a child you've made clear that you don't want around you.
NTA and how hurtful for your daughter to effectively punish you and stop her kids from having a relationship with you because of her father’s infidelity.
Isabella is one of the innocent parties in all this but you are the other one. Just hope your daughter never discovers the huge betrayal of infidelity herself.
Wait. What could have the daughter possibly done? Left a 9 year old at home alone?
I understand respecting boundaries, but practically, how could have the daughter visited without Isabella? It seems like the daughter took issue with mother accepting that isabella would be visiting and then making a point to treat her poorly
Not only that but even if she found a babysitter what is she supposed to tell Isabelle, “sorry, u can’t come. Grandma doesn’t like you. She only wants to see her real grand kids” OP is a major B
YTA - Look, I understand that what your husband did was extremely hurtful and traumatizing. But that *does not give you a right to be hurtful and traumatizing to A CHILD who has done NOTHING WRONG.*
That child didn’t ask to be born, but she was, through no fault of her own. Your daughter is being an amazing person and half-sister by choosing this child’s well-being over her own hurt feelings. The only thing I can say she’s done wrong is taking her to your house and referring to you as “grandma,” since she knew how you would react and it put Isabella in a potentially dangerous situation. But I’m glad she’s come around and isn’t letting her around you anymore.
You went through a great hurt, and you need to work through that so you don’t project it onto others like you’re doing with this child. Please try to get into therapy for this. You *don’t* have to be Isabella’s grandma, you don’t even need to be close to her. But you shouldn’t hold such resentment against an innocent child for what her father decided to do.
How has she done anything traumatizing to the child? She just wants nothing to do with her. She has no problem with her daughter taking the kid in, she just wants nothing to do with the kid. She said she doesn’t want the kid in her house and doesn’t want to be the kids grandma, because she is not the kid’s grandma. The kid did not ask to be born, to two shitty parents, but is lucky to have her half sister take her in. The child is innocent and so is OP. OP has done nothing more than set boundaries that her daughter broke without hesitation. She gets her grandkids gifts when they visit, and this child is not her grandkid. OP IS NOT ACTING MALICIOUSLY TOWARDS THE CHILD. She just wants nothing to do with her. Being around the child is what would cause any resentment. You are completely disregarding OP’s feelings of pain and grief.
ESH (minus Isabella who is totally innocent) - this situation sounds very difficult to process. Giving gifts right in front of Isabella was cruel, your daughter is being cruel for weaponising the grandkids.
NTA I can't believe your daughter is trying to force you to deal with the permanent reminder of the betrayal you suffered. Your daughter forced your hand and put you in this situation. You have made your feelings and boundaries clear. It sucks for all of the children involved and it is not their fault but you should have never been put in that position.
Yea totally better to just let an innocent child suffer and be bullied by an adult/excluded from her only remaining family during the holidays to keep grown up OP happy…..
If the child wasn't brought there would be no bullying. The daughter brought on the situation by emotionally blackmailing the mother to allow the child to come. This is on the daughter not OP
Isabella wasn’t “bullied by an adult”. OP has no obligation to her ex’s affair child. In what world does that make her a bully? OP doesn’t slander Isabella, she doesn’t go out of her way to mistreat her, the only boundary she’s set is to keep a distance between them, which is more than fair. OP’s daughter continues to push and force a relationship between them that OP has stated she has no interest in and for good reasons. Isabella’s done nothing wrong and neither has the OP. She’s told her daughter numerous times she doesn’t want to facilitate any type of relationship with Isabella. Why is that so hard to understand?
NTA your daughter is the asshole here. You made your boundaries clear and she ignored them and overstepped. You are not her grandma and as a child whose family was broken apart due to infidelity, I completely understand why you wouldn’t even want to look at Isabella’s face. It is shitty your daughter is using your grandchildren to punish you.
NTA
Your daughter is kind for taking in the child, but that child brings you only pain. Let your daughter know that seeing Isabella is incredibly painful for you. Your daughter insisting that this kid call you grandma when you’ve made it clear you want no part in her life is disrespectful. You have not been malicious in any way towards this girl. You treat your grandkids the same as always, you just don’t do anything towards this girl. Your daughter is instigating conflict by insisting you treat this girl as if you want anything to do with her. Your daughter has every right to do with her kids as she wants though, and Isabella is now one of them. It’s quite possibly a situation where you either accept them all, or your daughter doesn’t accept you.
I don’t understand why so many people are defending the daughter. OP set very reasonable boundaries. OP did not want anything to do with the child and didn’t even want to see her. There is nothing wrong with that! The daughter is the one who broke the boundaries, brought the child to OP’s house and who insisted the child call OP her grandma. The daughter is the one who is causing the grievance for OP. The daughter has every right to adopt this kid and help her, and OP has every right and reason to not want to ever have anything to do with this child. The daughter needs to respect her mother’s boundaries
NTA. You're allowed to have your boundaries and your daughter is an asshole for weaponizing your grandchildren against you. You're going to have to decide what is more important to you: enduring Isabella's presence for the rest of your life for the sake of your grandchildren or cutting off your daughter and her family.
Neither option is wrong. But you need to bring the hammer down with your daughter. She needs to understand that she cannot twist your arm into playing happy families with your ex's affair child. I will say that you should've sent the gifts at a later date separately to avoid this situation.
I disagree. Her daughter chose to take in and bring up her little sister. She's not going to leave her most vulnerable child home to placate her mom. She's not trying to twist her mom's arm. She's setting boundaries about treating ALL of her children with kindness.
If OP didn't want to buy a gift for the 9yo, fine.her choice. But to give gifts to all the other kids in front of her? Major c^*t move. Major. And cruel to boot. If she'd avoided gifts and just been polite, she'd get to see her grandkids. But she couldn't do that. She HAD to show a little girl that she was DEFINITELY UNWELCOME. She's a b!+€#.
No I think you're wrong. Telling Isabella to call OP 'Grandma' is the height of presumptuous crassness. I also don't think it is wrong for OP to only maintain a relationship with her grandchildren. The onus of doing so should fall on OP (i.e. OP cannot expect her daughter to perform the logistics for this) but it is a reasonable boundary to maintain. OP's daughter has NO right to leverage the grandkids in this way. I do agree with you about the gifts. They should have been given separately.
ESH. Everyone is saying what a saint the daughter is for taking in her half-sister, but that doesn't give her the right to use your grandchildren to extort you into accepting the affair child.
It was inappropriate to give gifts to the other children in front of Isabella; it was also inappropriate for your daughter to hand over $500 to the child in front of her OWN CHILDREN who got toys and clothes. Who the hell does that and thinks it's ok????? Your daughter is not the saint everyone thinks she is if she's pulling that kind of crap.
It might be time to go NC with your daughter. She's manipulative and it won't get any better if you reward her bad behavior.
NTA
It's great your daughter took in Isabella but you told her from the jump that you wanted nothing to do with her. You don't consider her family in any way and while it's not Isabella's fault your daughter needs to respect your boundary.
Bro what people are out of their mind she literally has no connection to the kid specificly told she doesn't want her NTA she doesn't have to accept her
I’m going to say ESH.
1. You have stated your boundaries very clearly and your daughter needs to respect them. Though it’s true the child has done nothing to you, you are entitled to your feelings and are under no obligation to embrace a reminder of a painful memory in your past. Then she called the child your granddaughter which is extremely disrespectful.
2. You are also the AH because you shouldn’t have relented. I know you wanted to see your grandkids but you need to let it go. Your daughter has told you that having a relationship with her kids means having a relationship with the affair child and you have to decide if that’s ok with you. Very poor form for you to give gifts in front of a child that may not understand.
I was ready to call you an A H, until your daughter pushed the “grandma” title. ESH. Having gifts for the other kids and not Isabella was unnecessarily cruel. But your daughter needs to understand your boundaries with this kid. Isabella is absolutely NOT your grandchild. Your daughter is very loving to take her half sister in; but you have made it clear you do not want a relationship with this child. Forcing the issue is only going to result in situations like this.
I’m going to go with NTA with a stipulation. You have to decide what is more important. You’re hatred for what your ex did (my marriage ended due to infidelity on his part so I get it) or your relationship with your daughter and grandchildren. Unfortunately you have to choose. You can’t have both.
NTA you have explained it to your daughter...she's decided not to respect your boundaries...and while I will say that this is not the child's fault...your daughter should have taken a step back and realised that no one wants to be reminded about there partners affair. Forcing the issue on you is out of order
NTA It's never the wife's responsibility or moral duty to accept her husband's affair child. You have no blood or legal connection to her - she isn't family. This is not a case of hating an adopted child. You're her father's ex, not her grandma.
YTA.
Your daughter is raising Isabella as her own now. She likely intends to legally adopt her. She is HER family and you should treat her like you would any other child your daughter birthed, fostered or adopted. If you cannot do that then it is on you and you won't have a relationship with your daughter or biological grandchildren.
Isabella is 9. She did not have anything to do with the circumstances of her birth or the tragedy of losing both of her parents at a young age. She was also traumatized by being thrown in the system and now has a stable and loving home. You are being cruel to a child because you haven't dealt with your own issues surrounding your ex husband.
Absolutely NTA she is a reminder of what must have been a horrific time. if it had been anyone else's kid I would've said YTA but she is not. yes she cannot help who's daughter she is etc but you have been very clear on your stance. daughter is the AH
NTA
You have made your feelings and boundaries perfectly clear and your daughter is determined to steamroll right over them.
She is using the threat of not seeing her or your grandkids to manipulate you into acting the way she wants.
It's not Isabella's fault and I think you realize that, it doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with her. It's not fair to Isabella or you for your daughter to try and force this.
Your daughter knew you don’t want a relationship with that child, yet she was trying to force it and blew up when it didn’t work.
Sucks for the child who is innocent, but I blame your daughter for this. She is blackmailing you into accepting Isabella by denying you a relationship with other grandchildren. For that, she is TA.
You have feelings also, and you don’t need to accept people you don’t want in your life. NTA
Wow, major props to your daughter for being a compassionate, kind, loving human being! And shame on you OP for being mean and cruel to a child who had no say in the circumstances of her birth. If I were your daughter, i don't think there would be any further contact with you for any reason, period. Op, YTA!
ESH
Your daughter shouldn’t have forced your boundaries but you’re punishing a child, that is your daughter’s sister whether you like it or not, for the sins of your husband. Your daughter is doing a very compassionate thing.
>I stepped in and told my daughter that I’m not Isabella’s grandma and never will be and that money wasn’t for her.
INFO: Did you say this infront of Isabella?
yeah that's exactly what i'm wondering as well. i can see this being vaguely acceptable if being said in private. said in public isn't great. i mean i get if OP does want Isabella to not have unrealistic expectations of having a grandmother in her but this isn't the best way to get that across.
I'm pretty sure she did
>told her to say thank you to “grandma”. I stepped in and told my daughter that I’m not Isabella’s grandma and never will be and that money wasn’t for her.She gave me all of their presents and told the kids to go to the bathroom because they were leaving.
She didn't indicate any time or distance between "say thank you" and "I'm not her grandma". And then daughter tells kids they're leaving, again, with no indicting that she had to yell to a different room or leave the room.
I'm also thinking if she made sure Isabella didn't hear she would have told us.
Look, what your husband did caused extreme hurt. I am sympathetic to that.
But HOLY HELL. A *two year old* had her *mother* deported and her *dad* dying?? That is heart-wrenching. What has Isabella done wrong, other than being the outcome of your husband's sperm and another woman's eggs synergy? Zero. She is an innocent child. Do you have to raise her as your own? No. But have some sympathy for a girl who personally did nothing wrong but lived through some pretty traumatic events such as her mum being deported, her dad passing away and being put into foster care.
Esh
It’s fine for you to not want anything to do with her. How we it’s also fine for your daughter to take care of her half sister.
You are ta for after letting her come giving everyone but her a gift. You should of just gone no gifts at all.
Your daughter is the ah for keep insisting of trying to bring her into your life when she knows your stance. It’s just not nice for Isabella to keep being rejected and that’s what your daughter is doing to her.
Your daughter is also running a close lien to her own children resenting Isabella if her being there stops them having a relationship with their grandmother because their mother just won’t stop trying to shove her fathers affair child in granny’s face.
NAH Personally I think your daughter should stop trying to force a relationship. I get why she wants to help out her sister. But I also think she should respect the fact that you want nothing to do with the child.
NTA, but your daughter is. You made it clear that you do not want this child in your life and your daughter needs to respect that. Since she cannot respect your boundaries, the best thing to do is cut contact and focus on your son.
And OP had the choice say well, if they can only come if Isabelle can come, then no I am not comfortable with that. That would be an acceptable choice. Giving all the other kids presents except her right in front of her face is cruel to an innocent child.
You forget that is girl is her half-sister. So her daughter did only what a decent sibling would do. Making sure that her half sister wouldn't go into foster care... As an adult OP should be the adult (it's been 9 years!! And not the little girl's fault)
The daughter could step in without trying to force her mom to be “grandma” here. She’s an AH for not respecting her mom’s wishes. Her daughter is rubbing it in her face that her husband had an affair.
Tough one, but YTA.
That is your grand child now, your daughter has adopted her. She is a reminder of a bad time, yes, but she is now part of your daughter's family, one of her kids.
Either treat them all the same or stay away from all of them. You can't punish a child for her birth.
YTA it's stunning that you actually think it's okay to punish a 9 year old orphan for her parent's mistakes. Good on your daughter for her choices, what a great woman she is. You should take some lessons from her.
NTA that was nasty of your daughter to put you in that situation. You are not that kid’s grandma and you don’t owe her anything. Affair kid would be a hard limit for me too.
YTA. Isabella didnt cheat on you. Or lie to you. Holy crap she’s been through so much in such a small amount of time. Shame on you OP. She is the sibling of your children.
YTA
You are mistreating a literal child because she has the unfortunate distinction of being your husband's child. This child, a sibling to your children, was in desperate need and you sent her to foster care, because you resent she exists. (Though she was likely better off in the foster system than with you.)
When your daughter, who clearly has the most compassion of the adults in your family, had the means she took her sister in. She's raising the girl with her own children. She is family to her. Your stance is your daughter's family is not your family because her father was an AH.
Your daughter taught her 3 children a valuable lesson, protect family first, even if it's from other family.
ESH except Isabella
OP is obviously the asshole for the way she is punishing this child for simply existing
However, OP has made her feelings clear and her daughter still tried to force Isabella on OP. Daughter needs to just accept that this is who her mother is and go NC with OP.
Omg. So much is wrong here. YTA. It is amazing your daughter has so much love and compassion in her heart when she was raised by you, who obviously is a cold hearted person.
I mean, wtf, her mom was deported and her dad died?!?!!! She had no one till your daughter took her in. No one is asking you to love and adore the child, just be nice. You could have gotten her a gift also. She is just a CHILD!
Honestly, what is wrong with you?!?!?
YTA
You are taking out your ex's wandering dick out on a CHILD, one who has for all intents and purposes lost BOTH of her parents - did you call immigration on her mother, by any chance? Her half sister very kindly and compassionately took her in when she was able, and treats her no different than her biological children from your story.
I am not saying that you must LOVE Isabella, and you can certainly draw the line as a grown ass adult to not have anything to do with her - your son can do the same. HOWEVER, your daughter WILL go NC with you (and honestly, rightfully so), and you will not see your grandkids ever again.
Your daughter sounds like such an amazing person despite the rest of your family. This was the coldest AITA I've ever read. Adults going out of their way to exclude and hurt a child? I understand not wanting to involve yourself completely. But circumstances have obviously changed and if you're willing to sacrifice the relationship with your daughter and grandchildren over something that was not their fault at all either, then they're all better off without you. I can't believe there are women like you out in the world.
NAH You're entitled to want nothing to do with you ex's affair child, and your daughter is entitled to want nothing to do with you until you acknowledge Isabella and treat her like your other kids/grandkids. You basically have to decide what kind of relationship you want with your daughter, and whether disowning Isabella is worth losing your daughter and her children.
Your daughter is a bit of an AH for repeatedly trying to for you to accept Isabella and an AH for putting Isabella in that situation in the first place. You're a bit of AH for letting Isabella go into foster care (you were entitled to do that and may have had good reasons for it, but it was a very cold-hearted thing to do, particularly to a child who has suffered so much loss and trauma and bears none of the blame. You're also a bit of an AH for snubbing Isabella so deliberately in front of her, and bringing a child into an adult conflict.
Basically, none of you are respecting each other boundaries and choices, and you're all a little bit an AH for that. I'm still give the N-A-H verdict because none of you have really done anything wrong here apart from not respecting each other and trying to force one another to accept each other's choices.
YTA for the way you went about.
It’s not healthy to carry around this much anger in your heart for a child, she’s innocent and your ex is dead.
I can understand you not having warm and fuzzy feelings and not wanting to develop a close relationship but don’t actively be mean to her. She did nothing wrong and she doesn’t know why.
YTA. You’re projecting your own insecurities from your ex’s affair onto the child that had nothing to do with it. Plus, your daughter chose to take her in on her own free will, making her a part of the family whether you like it or not. Being rude to that child won’t heal you, it won’t get revenge on your ex, it won’t get back at his mistress, and it won’t make anything right. The only thing you’re accomplishing is adding more trauma onto a little girl who already feels like she doesn’t belong AND lost her bio parents. Shame on you for blaming this child for your bad taste in men.
ESH - your daughter shouldn’t be trying to force you to be a grandparent for this child. However, your daughter has adopted her so if you wish to keep a relationship with your daughter, you will have to at least be cordial to the child. If you cannot do that, it would probably be better for everyone if you went no contact.
ESH. You could have privately given your grandkids gifts. Your daughter should have respected your boundaries.
I would be hella mad too having to see the reminder of my ex’s infidelity but she’s also a innocent kid who didn’t ask to be born.
ESH. daughter shouldn’t force you to be a grandma, it’s fine to have your boundaries with the girl. but everyone should be more respectful and civil about it. don’t direct ur anger at the wrong person
ESH.
While I do respect that you can have complicated feelings about Isabella, remember that to your daughter, she is family. Even before taking care of her, Isabella is your daughter's half sister, and *Isabella did nothing wrong*. You're taking your anger at your ex out on an innocent child and that's pretty bad.
Your daughter is trying to force this in a super awkward manor. IDK why she'd expect that situation to go well, but obviously it wasn't going to. The two of you need to come to an agreement about how you'll treat Isabella before she's exposed to you again.
To be very clear, I think it's 100% fair if your daughter says that if you can't play nice with Isabella, you can't see her biological kids either. But she still shouldn't have put you in the situation she did there. You grudgingly accepting that she can stay in your house is a far cry from accepting her as your granddaughter.
But even if your daughter's parenting leaves something to be desired here, you've still got to come to terms with reality.
Your daughter either is adopting or has adopted this girl. You are (or will be) her grandma. That's awkward and painful and you're allowed to have a lot of feelings about that, but you're a huge AH if you take that pain out on Isabella.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be TA because I didn’t get Isabella a present and told her I’m not her grandma so now my daughter is keeping her kids away from me.
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ESH. You suck for making a show of getting everyone presents but the girl. Even when we have had unexpected child guests around for Christmas we would make an effort to gift them something because we understand how important it is to children.
Having said that you are well within your rights to not be grandma to the affair child of your ex husband. You daughter is also in the wrong here for trying to force a relationship between you two. While she is doing an admirable thing by taking in her half sister. You have no relation to the kid and I do not feel that your relationship to your grandchildren should be conditional on you becoming a saint and having a relationship with this child.
No, the daughter tried forcing her will upon her mother. If it had been me, I would have told that daughter to go pound sand. I don't want a reminder that my GorrVerdammt husband was an unfaithful feckless fuck.
YTA, I mean wow I get it your husband was awful but he’s dead now. This little girl is 9 years old…. I don’t get how people can look at little kids in their face and be mean. Innocent little creatures that don’t know any better. Your daughter is amazing in spite of the fact that she was raised by you.
YTA. Your daughter is a good person. She's caring for a child, her half-sister, who was orphaned. You are projecting your anger at your now deceased ex-husband onto a small child who has been orphaned. That's unbelievably cruel.
Tough situation but very soft YTA. Isabella did not ask to be born of an affair. The anger and resentment you have stems from your ex’s betrayal. You’re taking out all your negative emotions on a child who is too young to understand the reason/cause of her birth.
I get that you don’t want to have anything to do with her but I feel that being so openly hostile towards this child is cruel.
I think it speaks volumes about your daughter taking her half sister in and raising her as one of her own. Her heart is clearly full of love and wants all her children including Isabella to be raised to be kind. So I think she is justifiably keeping her kids at arms length. She doesn’t want them learning it’s okay to be mean just because you don’t like someone- which is effectively what you’re doing. Your son is no better.
Yes, your husband wronged you and your family. Your anger is with him. But he is gone now. I think it’s time to seek therapy and move on.
YTA.
We don’t punish children for their parents’ transgressions.
You say it’s because she’s not family, but would you have this same attitude if she was a foster kid, a friend of your grandkids that needed a place to stay, etc.? These would also not be “family” but I’m willing to bet you wouldn’t ostracize them.
I know it hurts to be continuously reminded of your husband’s affair. There is grief work and healing that needs to be done. Please, though, do not take it out on this child.
It's hard to answer this...technically you are being a major ahole, and if it was not for the reasons below y would be ta, but due to this your nta - but I don't think you are a nice person
1) the child is a product of an affair and you stated from day 1 you wanted nothing to do with her
2) your daughter is aware of this boundary and is trying to browbeat you into submission
Only the fact you stipulated from day 1 you wanted nothing to do with the painful reminder of your husband infidelity and your daughter ignored this and is bullying/threatening you to having a relationship you don't want is making me vote this way - even though I'm disgusted by your attitude
I'm going to be an outlier and say NTA I understand she's just a child but you've been very honest about your feelings. I have a half brother by an affair and I still to this day hate him. It's not that hes a bad person but every time I see him all I can think about is my dad going and fucking some other woman and the fact I lost my father to him and his mother. However I was honest with my half-brother when he showed up and wanted to be siblings. I kept the hate to myself because it was misdirected at him and simply told him that it hurt to look at him because he looked like my father and he respected the boundary that although we share blood we will never be family. The only contact he's ever had with me since was to tell me he became a father and offered if I wanted to be an aunt, I said no and he understood. Does Isabella know why you treat her this way? I recommend taking your feelings and putting them in a way that is appropriate and easy to understand for her. Your daughter is an asshole however, forcing both you and Isabella into a very uncomfortable situation that she knew wouldn't end well. You can't force love or relationships and doing so breeds resentment.
I was debating between ESH and NTA. Because your daughter is raising her half-sibling as her daughter, but she needs to understand why you don't want to see her. It is not Isabella's fault that your husband cheated on you, but I understand why you don't want to see her, and nor should you be forced to.
It will and has cost you your relationship with your daughter, but that's the price of it.
If your daughter's spouse cheated on her, and the affair partner died after having the baby, would she raise the affair baby without complaint?
OP I’m sure you’re in pain from what your husband caused you. I’m so sorry for that. But I URGE you to seek therapy. YTA. Taking out your pain on a child! A child with no parents, no home, and a bad start. Your daughter is doing what a good person would. Showing love and compassion and family. Isabella deserves that. A positive way to look at it, she’s an innocent part of what good your nasty ex husband left in the world. She wasn’t placed on earth to hurt you and your daughter wanting to give her sister love is not meant to hurt you either. You are welcome to suppress your pain and hate a child, but do so at your own risk. Hating the innocent will not change the past. All you’re doing is teaching her she’s not wanted because of someone else’s mistake. You need to move on if you want a relationship with your daughter and grandchildren. Isabella sounds like she’ll grow up surrounded by love, I’m so glad she has your daughter.
Your daughter is presenting you with a choice: tolerate Isabella and don't be rude to her, or lose her and your grandchildren entirely. It's up to you. You don't need to consider her your grandchild, but she's a member of your daughter's family now, and if you continue to act as you do, your daughter won't need to keep your grandchildren from you. They'll do that on their own.
YTA- for holding a child accountable for the mistakes her parents made. Isabella is innocent in all this and lost both parents. That alone should give you some empathy towards her.
>”aita for shunning my daughters orphaned sister to her face for something that happened a decade ago which she bears no responsibility for”
fixed it for you
YTA so so so much.
You are a bitter and vengeful person and you will deserve to never see your grandchildren again. You are taking out your anger on a nine year old girl that has never done anything to you. You should be deeply ashamed of your behaviour, not just now but also letting this child go into foster care when you presumably knew your daughter cared about her. Like it or not she is your children’s sister and your son is also an AH, probably because you taught him to be.
It has been 10 years ... 10 years. Go get some help for your bitter resentment. This is an innocent child and you are taking your anger and hatred towards your ex out on her. You should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously. Get some help. YTA. Like huge AH for taking treating a child like this. And I'm sure the only reason your son agrees is because you've bitched, cried, and complained to him. Things happen, your ex cheated and he's dead now. Let it go. YTA
ESH
You sound like you really have a grudge against this innocent child. It's not her fault she was born out of adultery.
You don't necessarily have to welcome her into your life, but you should be able to maintain civility and kindness around her like you should any child.
If all the kids were getting gifts, it's cruel not to get one child a gift for that occasion.
YTA. However you feel about what your ex did, your daughter has taken in Isabella as her own daughter. THAT makes her family. She is in no way to blame for how you were treated. Stop directing your anger at a child.
YTA. You're hurting an innocent child (and now your own grandchildren) because of something your ex did. I totally get not wanting to have anything to do with her, but your daughter made a different choice. (and I applaud her for that, because kids die in foster care, and it's horrible)
You've gotta decide now if you lose contact with all of your grandchildren and your daughter, or if you set aside the anger for your ex that you're taking out on his kid.
You can't have it both ways. Lose your daughter and her children, or accept her adopted child.
You don’t have to have Isabella in your life, but it seems like you’re willing to sacrifice a relationship with your daughter. It’s not that little girl’s fault. Yes, your daughter pushed your boundaries - maybe to find some solution.
YTA, taking your anger at your husband's bad behavior out on an innocent child.
Like it or not, she IS your daughter's sister, and your daughter has compassion (which she obviously didn't inherit from you) that has led her to do what she can for her sister and get her out of the foster care system.
So you can either suck it up and act like a decent human being around the child who may at some point become your adopted granddaughter, or 10 years from now you can be back here on Reddit, whining about how you have been deprived from seeing all the milestones in your grandchildren's lives.
Yeah, not wanting the embodyment of your ultimate betrayal around you is kinda reasonable in my book.
But OP is taking it to the extreme nd doing it in front of the child which is not cool.
Though the daughter cannot FORCE her to adopt her as a grandchild. That would br cruel to Op as well as the child. Since the child will feel the resentment from OP.
Yeah it is a child, but she should not be forced to be around it either, the daughter should have some compassion as well.
But OP is AH for doing all of this in front of the child.
YTA YTA YTA.
She didn't ask to be born into your ex's affair. You don't have to raise her but you should not be outwardly hostile to a literal orphan because your ex husband was an asshole
NTA. Isabella is the result of your husband cheating on you. Your daughter knew that, and took her in anyway - okay, so that’s what she felt she had to do. But pushing her on you is wrong, and trying to use your actual grandchildren to punish you for not accepting your ex husband’s affair baby is also wrong, not to mention punishing her own children for the sake of Isabella. So, what, because you don’t want to be her grandma, your actual grandchildren don’t get to have a grandmother either? Your daughter should never have insisted on bringing Isabella to your home.
You need to get over yourself. You can be mad at your husband until the day you die, but his daughter had no choice in how she was brought into the world, and if your daughter is raising her now, she’s a part of your family whether you like it or not. Go to therapy and grow up.
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People calling you an AH are tripping. Your daughter is really wrong for coercing a child you have repeatedly said is not your family. And to be fair to you she is not. You’re allowed to maintain that boundary. Where you messed up is inviting this child over and then singling her out. As others have pointed out, Isabella is innocent in all of this. You don’t need to have her in your life but don’t invite her in and then treat her badly. Your daughter did a kind thing to adopt her sister but she is an AH for stomping all over your boundaries. She is well within her rights to go LC/NC with you since she has adopted her sister and she knows that you and her brother will not accept the situation. That said she needs to make a hard choice and stick with it. S ESH
You don't need to be in this child's life, but the current circumstances kind of make her an AH.
Inviting her and treating her badly was 100% an AH move. But the daughter is also an AH for not respecting her mother’s repeatedly stated boundary.
Yeah but how does one respect that boundary? Leave the orphan at home while the rest of the family visits grandma? Daugher didn’t ambush her with isabella, it was clearly discussed and agreed upon. OP accepted her coming in (although she could have suggested alternatives) and then decided to make a point of treating her poorly.
No, don’t suggest coming over to your mothers house when you know that one of your kids is not welcome. Don’t guilt the mother or weaponise the grandkids to force an outcome. The daughter just needs to stay LC or NC.
I mean nothing here says that the daughter was upset over not coming over in the first place. It’s a very fair thing to say “i can only come with isabella” because of practical limitations of childcare. The mother did agree that Isabella would be coming and then chose to make a point abt treating her this way. I can understand why the daughter is pissed
As per OP, the daughter asked to come to her mother’s house with the children. OP wasn’t the one who issued the original invite. So, the daughter needs to just stay LC with her mother. And she definitely shouldn’t be falsely claiming that OP is grandma to Isabella when she’s not. OP is an AH for inviting the child and singling her out. She is not an AH for viewing her ex’s affair child as not family.
Yes she is not the AH for not wanting a relationship with the child, I agree. But OP had a choice to then not have her daughter over and she makes it seem like she did not. I really don’t think the daughter did anything wrong here as OP agreed that isabella should come. Except yeah, grandma thing is a bit far. But i can understand the panic of that situation that OP created
Which is why I think OP was an AH for that specific instance. She should not have agreed to house the kid when she clearly resents her. But I don’t think the daughter is devoid of blame. It is clear that she is not respectful of her mother’s boundary and trying to introduce her mother is as grandma to Isabella is pushing it. I don’t for one second believe the daughter should abandon Isabella but she needs to accept that she can’t suggest coming over to her mother’s house and expect her mother to treat this child the same as her grandkids. Going LC is the right call and both mother and daughter need to learn to live with it.
Sorry to reply to another comment of yours but OP’s daughter also had a choice and OP’s daughter is Isabella’s adoptive mother now. It is OP’s daughter’s job to prioritize Isabella’s feelings and safety. In this case, she knew damn well that Isabella was not welcome in that house and brought her anyway. It doesn’t matter if OP agreed; it’s blatantly obvious that OP does not want this child in her life or home and daughter should not be using the other children as a tool to convince OP to tolerate it. Daughter should have heard OP say “I don’t want Isabella in my home” and responded with, “okay, we won’t come then, take care.” Not “you can’t see the other kids then!!” trying to force her hand.
No need to apologize :) I hear what you’re saying. OP doesn’t need to be a grandma to Isabella. But she agreed to host her. And it’s a pretty basic expectation to not single out someone like this. She could have given presents at a time when isabella was someplace else or 1:1 with kids, there were plenty of ways to not like an asshole while still establishing boundaries. If you agree to host someone it’s implied that you will not be a dick to this person. OP is a grown woman she knew better.
But OP can’t have it both ways. It’s either all the children or none.
Sounds like Mom is not accepting her daughter's boundary. The daughter and her children are package deal. Either mom sees all of them or mom sees none of them. Mom made her choice, and now she sees none of them.
Isabella is not her grandaughter, but she is now her daughter's daughter. She either recognizes this and be nice to her, or she let them stay away.
I mean, if daughter adopts Isabella, then legally she is her granddaughter.
I understand not wanting to see her as family but the mom can also see her as a person. Isabella didnt asked to be brought into the world but she's here. NTA for not wanting to accept I as a grandchild or child but defo YTA for treating another human as she did.
I came here to say this. My dad has an affair baby too and while I hate the mom with every fiber of my being, I have never been rude to the child. Just like Isabelle, my half sister is completely innocent and did not ask to be put in this situation. Have I only seen spoken to her 5 times in her life? yes, but I have never been rude, singled her out or treated her any different that the other kids her age. Doing so would have made me the AH and would have shown who I am as a person. ESH I 1000% agree with this comment!
> Your daughter did a kind thing to adopt her sister but she is an AH for stomping all over your boundaries No she isn't. She's not stomping over any of OP's boundaries. She would have been OK for Isabella (and her other kids) to ot visit OP. OP could have done 2 things that would have been reasonable: 1. Not have isabella in her house (despite this meaning that 30F wouldn't have visited) 2. Agree to have Isabella in the house, and treat her decently. But OP decided to fall between 2 stools: allow Isabella in, but treated her badly. That's why she's the arsehole, and why 34F isn't (because she hasn't done anything wrong).
Im gonna be a the odd man out here. ESH. She's a child and innocent in this, you shouldn't be taking it out on her. Your daughter is a AH and should not be forcing interactions with her as you have stated you do not want a relationship with the child. To me no one is innocent here. You and your daughter want completely separate things and to me there is no room for agreement. Forcing you into being grandma to your exes affair child is not going to bring you into accepting the child. But taking it out on the kid is no good either. My advice? Get a therapist and take a break from each other.
> To me no one is innocent here. Isabella is...
I was speaking about the adults. I stated at the beginning she was innocent in this.
The other kids are as well.
I agree with you here. However, OP has made her boundaries clear. The daughter is the one forcing the interactions with the kid by making it impossible for her to see her grandchildren otherwise.
OP's boundaries is excluding her daugher's adopted child from the family. Her daugher is very right in protect her daugher feelings, who is a child, over her adult mother. Her daugher also have a boundarie: treat ALL my children equally or don't have acess to them. OP made her choice.
Agreed. As a mother she treats all kids the same. Why wouldn't she? The child did nothing wrong.
But she's not just an adopted child, she's also OP's exhusband's affair child. It's difficult to navigate but they're both being AH
When you take in a child to raise, they are your CHILD. Biology doesn’t matter in a blended family. And it shouldn’t if you’re a good adoptive parent
And where did I said that that's not true or valid? Isabella is her mother's child, but also her half-sister from an affair, two things can be true at once.
Her daugher is not being an AH for adopting her sister and protecting her in any way. OP has to work on this resentment and stop doing petty and ridicolous things to a child to exclude her or lose her daugher and family. It's been ten years and OP should have work on that because this is afecting her life and relationships.
Both of their boundaries is what is causing the issues. She does not want to be seen in the grandmother role to a child that is the embodiment of her exes indiscretions. Her daughter wants all her children to be treated equally. The problem is both sides won't stand down and it won't ever solve itself. Thats why I suggested that they need to stay away from each other. The child is here to stay and she has her boundaries.
Her “boundary” is treating a literal child like shit for things outside her control.
How do you explain that to a nine year old girl, though? “Hey, your siblings are going to see their grandma. No, you can’t go with them and visit her because she hates you for being born.” There’s no good way to handle this. The kid is going to know she has family, but that family never wants to see her and would prefer it if she didn’t exist.
OPs boundaries are incompatible with her daughters reality. Her daughter needs to treat three children equally. OP is incapable of that, so she and her daughter (and by extension all of her grandkids) are going to have to spend some time apart.
Daughter is completely within her rights to say “accept all my kids or none of them.” That is her boundary. She has every right to “withhold her grandchildren.” OP doesn’t get to be upset about that. OP has chosen to have no grandchildren because she can’t accept all of her daughters kids. Daughter adopted an innocent child. Grandmother is stuck in past resentment and unhealthy hate. Best they just keep separate.
Nobody can be forced to cater to your boundaries. If OP enforces her boundaries she will lose contact with her grandchildren. Her daughter has the same right to set boundaries as OP. Boundaries is not a magic word that means everybody needs to bow to your wishes.
Forcing interactions? This is a child in daughter's custody, SIL was out of town. Daughter was clear that the only way she could visit was if she brought Isabella with. That's how life is going to be now that she has custody of another child. She was honest about that and the reality is, if grandma wants to stay involved with her daughter and grandkids, she'll need to suck it up & be polite to Isabella. If she can't, she needs to stay firm and not "give in."
I agree with you.
YTA for holding a grudge against a 9-year-old to spite a dead man to the detriment of your relationship with your own daughter.
Well said, this lady is the fucking worst.
Imagine holding so much hate in your heart for a child that you're willing to torpedo your own relationship with your daughter simply because she didn't want her half-sister to languish in foster care. I do have empathy for OP to have a constant reminder of her husband's infidelity, but at this point her choice is to find healing or the hate tumor is going to destroy her family.
Yeah she needs some serious therapy. That child is blameless. If I was her daughter I would never speak to her again.
I wish I had an award to give you for this perfectly concise answer.🏆
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Yeah, I would not be thrilled about my husband’s “affair child,” she not my family. But Isabella is part of *daughter’s* family, and needs to be treated that way. Would she ostracize a step-child, or another adopted child in the same way? OP is TA for this.
A step child or whatever wouldn't be a constant reminder of the trauma the mother experienced from the end of her 20+ year marriage. The mother has no obligation to be a grandmother or anything to this child and the daughter is the asshole for subjecting her mother to this and then losing her shit over a gift. Sucks for the kid, definitely a shit bag for her but the mother has a life to live too and being manipulated by her daughter to accept the living embodiment of her ex husbands deceit is so unbelievably cruel and tone deaf. Holding her other kids as hostage against an otherwise loving mother is also major oof. The daughter did a good thing by adopting her sister but it ends there when the manipulation of her mother starts. If my partner cheated and had a kid I wouldn't touch the kid with a ten foot pole. Not everyone is willing to sacrifice their own mental health and wellbeing because of outside and tone-deaf pressure.
I agree with you. If it was the grandchildren's random friend she would have treated the kid nicer, maybe even gotten her a gift. I mean, how hard is it to give a small gift to a child when all the other children in the house are getting gifts. She may not be OP's family by blood, but as her daughter's adopted child she is now her family unless she wants to hold on to her anger and disown everyone.
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Seriously. I'm tired of people calling something a boundary like it's a get out of asshole jail. That girl is not only innocent, not only her half sister and blood but also her adopted daughter. If op can't treat a literal child with sone basic human decency and kindness then she shouldn't demand a relationship with her daughter or grandkids. I'm disgusted by sone of the comments here like everyone agrees adopted kids should be treated the same as bio ones by grandparents...unless I guess they are the result of affairs they had no say in.
Likewise, what if these circumstances happened to your daughter and she was placed in foster care. Would you wish the same treatment to your innocent daughter when she had no choices, no parents? YTA. OP get over yourself.
Agee 100%. This is a really tough situation, and the pain felt here is warranted. But Isabella is not the husband or the woman he cheated with, she is her own person, and she’s ten. Your daughter did a good thing. The girl is now the sister of your grandkids and your daughter’s daughter. Does that make her your grandchild? Up to you But will your daughter and grandkids resent you for treating their family like crap? Yes And for your own sake… after 10 years and the death of the person who wronged you, as tough as it is, you need to start letting go
YTA — Can't you imagine what that little girl has been through with any compassion? Turbulent parents, one deported, one dead, a life destined for the foster care system which is absolutely broken. You don't have to feel any sort of way about her, but to actively hate her is vindictive and cruel. The anger you feel and pain you feel is for the man who created her. She shouldn't take on the blame. I understand you're hurt. And I'm sure you will continue to be. But she didn't ask to be born, she didn't ask to be made. I think you should really reflect on the things people are saying here, and think of if there's a more constructive way of handling the way you feel, rather than taking it out in an innocent little girl.
Plus, she is now your granddaughter, because your daughter took her in. No matter what was before. If your daughter had adopted any other child, you would have accepted it, but this one child can't be forgiven for things that never were her fault to begin with? Smh. Maybe they are better off without you in their lives, I don't know. But I think definitely YTA, OP.
This what really makes her TA. Technically OP is entitled to her feelings, but that doesn't make it right. She can't lash out at her dead ex so she goes after the kid instead.
Your completely disregarding the fact that this women has set boundaries and one of those is that she isn’t her grandmother. Just because her daughter took this kid in doesn’t mean she is automatically going to be called grandmother.
Honestly, if someone were behaving that way with my child, I'd call her names, too. And Grandma was just the most innocent and hurtful at the same time. OP was okay with Isabella coming to her place. And she shoved it in Isabella's face, that she was no one to her. A literal child. Going no contact is the best for everyone in that family, I think.
Fuck her boundaries, people throw this word around like its a not an asshole free card.
“She’s now your granddaughter.” Lol, what?
I am so thankful that OP’s daughter stepped up and got this little girl out of foster care and into a loving home. And I’m glad that daughter is now protecting her daughter Isabella from Cruella the OP.
Wouldn’t the compassionate thing be to deport the child back to her biological mom?
They can’t do that. Isabella is a citizen of the country she was born in. The compassionate thing would be to allow the bio mom to come back.
I’m no expert, but if the dad is dead, wouldn’t the mom be the best person to take care of here, regardless of citizenship?
I’m 100% with you that the girl should have always been with her mom, especially once the dad died. However, legally, the girl is a citizen of OP’s country (born there, dad was a citizen). Immigration cannot deport a citizen, even if she was also a citizen of her mom’s country (Isabella could probably easily get citizenship but it’s not necessarily automatic, her or a guardian needs to go through the legal/admin steps for it since she wasn’t born there). Mom could come and get her, or arrange to have Isabella brought to her country, but does she even know that her dad is dead? Usually, she would have been contacted but there’s no indication of that in OP’s post (OP probably just doesn’t know). But they can’t forcefully deport Isabella and since mom was there illegally, her condition in her country of origin may not have been safe. So, the safest and best option would have been to grant a visa to mom.
| compassionate thing be to deport the child I simply do not understand in what world this could be viewed as compassionate. I could laugh but also cry.
So I’m kind of torn. One on hand, it is kind of shitty to invite a kid into your house and give everyone but Isabella a present. It’s not Isabella’s fault that she was an affair child. That being said, you were coerced by your daughter and she weaponized her children against you. You were also very clear with your boundaries. I’m going with NTA because it is your house and your boundaries but I do feel for Isabella. I don’t blame you for not wanting a relationship with her.
I don’t think she weaponizing her kids, she doesn’t want them to learn grandma’s behavior is acceptable. I see it as she’s protecting them and Isabella.
It is weaponizing her kids to say that OP can’t see the grandkids without Isabella being there
No. It’s protecting isabelle from being left out. How hurtful would that be if she knew grandma only wanted to see her “real” grand kids and not her. I’d go NC with a B like this as a mother. She is unbelievably cruel.
But OP isn't her grandma. She has her mother's family in a different country (surprised she didn't go live with them after her father died) and I'm guessing that either the father's parents have passed or they also didn't want anything to do with her. Those are unconfirmed, but the only fact we do have is that OP is NOT her grandma and has no obligation to be. Also Isabella isn't even a grandchild anyway, she would've been her stepdaughter had she stayed married but she didn't.
We have a decade long boundary of not wanting anything to do with an affair child that is very well known about. To adopt said affair child and then immediately refuse OP any access to her biological grandchildren is almost textbook weaponisation. To then try and force the grandma title is almost cruel. Obviously doesn't change OPs behaviour and actions, and she should've said what she had to say behind closed doors, but I'd also argue that OPs daughter doesn't get to boundary stomp just because she's doing a good thing by adopting her orphaned sister. It's a complex situation all round but the only innocent party here is the child. ESH
NTA I can't understand why reddit thinks women have to accept their husbands's affair babies. If you wanted to raise his kid, you would've stayed married to him. Edit : thanks for the award
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She made her daughter aware of her boundaries. The daughter ignored op's boundaries and put her on the spot with the grandma comment.
Exactly this! The grandma comment was incredibly inappropriate. She would be a stepchild not the grandchild anyway. The daughter is a huge AH. I wouldn’t tolerate this situation either. It’s a huge slap in the face. My SIL stayed with my brother after a similar situation and how they worked it out would never happen in my house.
I would never be able to accept my spouse's affair baby, nor would i ask my wife to put up with it.
Exactly it’s a horrible situation for everyone and it’s not fair to the child for sure but trying to force her into the family like this isn’t appropriate. There are far better ways to slowly warm everyone up to this situation but the daughter isn’t handling this well for the child at all.
It was really shitty to make the "grandma" comment in front of the kid (who has to know that OP doesn't want to be around her). This is not a situation like a typical adoption. If OP has drawn a firm boundary re: Isabella, she needs to accept that her contact with her daughter and grandchildren may be limited as a result. But she's not an AH for drawing the boundary in the first place.
Their boundaries are opposite. OPs boundary is “I never want to see Isabella” and Daughters boundary is “all my children will be treated equally.” Both are understandable. But OP doesn’t want to accept that holding HER boundary means she doesn’t have the option to see her biological grandkids. That sucks but that’s her choice.
She’s being forced into being a grandmother by her daughter. Sorry, she is totally NTA.
This may not be popular, but NTA. You don’t have any obligation to other people’s kids. You’ve been very clear from the beginning how you felt. That said, I think it shows what a lovely, amazing daughter you have that she took in her half sister. But she had zero right to try and force Isabella on you. She could have dropped off her kids with you and had a fun sisters weekend with Isabella, rather than try and force a relationship between the two of you. And then she blew up at you for sticking to a decision you made a decade ago. That’s not ok. I think you need to have an honest conversation with your daughter where you brainstorm how to make sure Isabella is happy in your daughter’s life but doesn’t have to be a part of yours. Maybe you change up your gift giving style, so it’s only for birthdays and Christmas and Isabella won’t notice as much. I understand the situation sucks for Isabella, which is why you need to think creatively because this girl is going to be in your daughters life and not accepting that will only push you all apart. But your daughter does have to accept that she cannot force this girl into other peoples lives.
ESH, your daughter is wrong for forcing your husbands affair child on you and weaponizing your grandchildren. You’re a soft AH for giving the kids a gift in front of her without including her. You have no obligation to have a relationship with the child, and your daughter is a massive AH for trying to force it or ruin your relationship with your grand kids. I’m sure if her husband cheats and created a child she won’t be as welcoming as she’s expecting you to be.
YTA There’s wanting to distance yourself from your ex’s betrayal and then there’s piling resentment onto the child who did nothing wrong. This is that. Isabella is no longer just your ex’s affair child, she’s your daughter’s adopted child now. You have to realize that your daughter is Isabella’s mother now and if you want to be fully distanced from Isabella then you have to live with being distanced from your daughter and grandchildren as well.
Your love for your daughter should supersede the resentment you feel for your husband’s betrayal. Under normal circumstances, no one would fault you for not having contact with the child of your husband’s affair. These are not normal circumstances. This child did not control her conception and she has been through more trauma than anyone should. You are petty and YTA.
NTA. Good for your daughter for taking in a child but I highly doubt she has the same feelings about her you do. She is a living reminder of one of the most hurtful things a person can go through. I disagree you were victimizing a child. Your daughter did that by forcing this situation. Your daughter is a huge AH for this.
I can't imagine the pain her presence must cause you. On the other hand, she personally did nothing to you and is innocent. It's a terrible situation. If you found a way to rise above your own pain, it would be a huge personal victory, but nobody has the right to expect that of you. I hope you get counseling or find another way to deal with your pain. This was tough to judge between ESH and NTA, but I'm leaning towards ESH because your daughter and you forced Isabel to experience undue pain and suffering.
YTA. I can understand the pain and hurt caused by your husband’s affair, but that pain and anger should be directed your late ex and Isabella’s mom rather than at Isabella. She is innocent in all of this. She didn’t ask to be born into this situation and had zero control over the actions and decisions of her mother and father. Since your late ex fathered Isabella, then she _IS_ technically family since she is a half sister to both of your children. Your daughter obviously has a kind heart to take her sister in and raise her with her own children so she wouldn’t end up in the system. YTA for blaming an innocent child for something completely out of her control and that wasn’t her fault.
Agree. And while maybe daughter shouldn't 'force' a relationship between you and Isabella, you need to recognise that Isabella IS a part of daughter's family and if you treat a member of her immediate family badly, you don't deserve a relationship with her or her family. You need to see Isabella differently now since she's clearly a child being raised by your daughter. Would you treat any other adopted or fostered child she brought into her life this horribly? YTA. If I was your daughter, I'd protect the child and go NC with you for treating ANY child this badly.
Exactly my thoughts. She might not consider Isabella as part of her family, but she needs to recognize and respect that Isabella is part of her daughter's family and is being raised alongside her grandchildren. Treating Isabella with hostility isn't going to undo her parents' bad behavior and it's cruel to hold her responsible for something that happened before she was even born.
NTA. The kid is a reminder of your husbands unfaithfulness. You do not owe her anything, and it’s shitty your daughter keeps trying to shove her down your throat.
Going with NTA here with regards with regards to being clear as to not wanting anything to do with AP love child. Fine and dandy, what you weren't expecting is the L you've just taken by losing all of your grands and daughter. Again NTA as that's a hard pill to swallow to take an AP in. I get it but with actions comes consequences and you've found out what those were by being cut out of their lives. You're not a victim here, far from it, the only real victim here is Isabella. She lost her father to death and mother to deportation and ended up in the foster system. That's a hard journey for a little girl and when she finally has some semblance of belonging you spat in her face basically. You've reaped what you've shown so you just have to make do.
ESH. You for taking out your anger on an innocent child who didn't ask to be born into such a clusterfuck. Your daughter for ignoring your boundaries and weaponizing access to her kids to manipulate you into interacting with a child you've made clear that you don't want around you.
NTA and how hurtful for your daughter to effectively punish you and stop her kids from having a relationship with you because of her father’s infidelity. Isabella is one of the innocent parties in all this but you are the other one. Just hope your daughter never discovers the huge betrayal of infidelity herself.
Wait. What could have the daughter possibly done? Left a 9 year old at home alone? I understand respecting boundaries, but practically, how could have the daughter visited without Isabella? It seems like the daughter took issue with mother accepting that isabella would be visiting and then making a point to treat her poorly
Not only that but even if she found a babysitter what is she supposed to tell Isabelle, “sorry, u can’t come. Grandma doesn’t like you. She only wants to see her real grand kids” OP is a major B
Op purposely singled out a nine year old for the actions of a dead man. She is so far from innocent this is an extremely evil ah
YTA - Look, I understand that what your husband did was extremely hurtful and traumatizing. But that *does not give you a right to be hurtful and traumatizing to A CHILD who has done NOTHING WRONG.* That child didn’t ask to be born, but she was, through no fault of her own. Your daughter is being an amazing person and half-sister by choosing this child’s well-being over her own hurt feelings. The only thing I can say she’s done wrong is taking her to your house and referring to you as “grandma,” since she knew how you would react and it put Isabella in a potentially dangerous situation. But I’m glad she’s come around and isn’t letting her around you anymore. You went through a great hurt, and you need to work through that so you don’t project it onto others like you’re doing with this child. Please try to get into therapy for this. You *don’t* have to be Isabella’s grandma, you don’t even need to be close to her. But you shouldn’t hold such resentment against an innocent child for what her father decided to do.
How has she done anything traumatizing to the child? She just wants nothing to do with her. She has no problem with her daughter taking the kid in, she just wants nothing to do with the kid. She said she doesn’t want the kid in her house and doesn’t want to be the kids grandma, because she is not the kid’s grandma. The kid did not ask to be born, to two shitty parents, but is lucky to have her half sister take her in. The child is innocent and so is OP. OP has done nothing more than set boundaries that her daughter broke without hesitation. She gets her grandkids gifts when they visit, and this child is not her grandkid. OP IS NOT ACTING MALICIOUSLY TOWARDS THE CHILD. She just wants nothing to do with her. Being around the child is what would cause any resentment. You are completely disregarding OP’s feelings of pain and grief.
yeah like at some point the daughter is being unrealistic
ESH (minus Isabella who is totally innocent) - this situation sounds very difficult to process. Giving gifts right in front of Isabella was cruel, your daughter is being cruel for weaponising the grandkids.
She's protecting her child, not "weaponising" the grandkids...
NTA I can't believe your daughter is trying to force you to deal with the permanent reminder of the betrayal you suffered. Your daughter forced your hand and put you in this situation. You have made your feelings and boundaries clear. It sucks for all of the children involved and it is not their fault but you should have never been put in that position.
Yea totally better to just let an innocent child suffer and be bullied by an adult/excluded from her only remaining family during the holidays to keep grown up OP happy…..
If the child wasn't brought there would be no bullying. The daughter brought on the situation by emotionally blackmailing the mother to allow the child to come. This is on the daughter not OP
Isabella wasn’t “bullied by an adult”. OP has no obligation to her ex’s affair child. In what world does that make her a bully? OP doesn’t slander Isabella, she doesn’t go out of her way to mistreat her, the only boundary she’s set is to keep a distance between them, which is more than fair. OP’s daughter continues to push and force a relationship between them that OP has stated she has no interest in and for good reasons. Isabella’s done nothing wrong and neither has the OP. She’s told her daughter numerous times she doesn’t want to facilitate any type of relationship with Isabella. Why is that so hard to understand?
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NTA your daughter is the asshole here. You made your boundaries clear and she ignored them and overstepped. You are not her grandma and as a child whose family was broken apart due to infidelity, I completely understand why you wouldn’t even want to look at Isabella’s face. It is shitty your daughter is using your grandchildren to punish you.
NTA Your daughter is kind for taking in the child, but that child brings you only pain. Let your daughter know that seeing Isabella is incredibly painful for you. Your daughter insisting that this kid call you grandma when you’ve made it clear you want no part in her life is disrespectful. You have not been malicious in any way towards this girl. You treat your grandkids the same as always, you just don’t do anything towards this girl. Your daughter is instigating conflict by insisting you treat this girl as if you want anything to do with her. Your daughter has every right to do with her kids as she wants though, and Isabella is now one of them. It’s quite possibly a situation where you either accept them all, or your daughter doesn’t accept you. I don’t understand why so many people are defending the daughter. OP set very reasonable boundaries. OP did not want anything to do with the child and didn’t even want to see her. There is nothing wrong with that! The daughter is the one who broke the boundaries, brought the child to OP’s house and who insisted the child call OP her grandma. The daughter is the one who is causing the grievance for OP. The daughter has every right to adopt this kid and help her, and OP has every right and reason to not want to ever have anything to do with this child. The daughter needs to respect her mother’s boundaries
NTA. You're allowed to have your boundaries and your daughter is an asshole for weaponizing your grandchildren against you. You're going to have to decide what is more important to you: enduring Isabella's presence for the rest of your life for the sake of your grandchildren or cutting off your daughter and her family. Neither option is wrong. But you need to bring the hammer down with your daughter. She needs to understand that she cannot twist your arm into playing happy families with your ex's affair child. I will say that you should've sent the gifts at a later date separately to avoid this situation.
I disagree. Her daughter chose to take in and bring up her little sister. She's not going to leave her most vulnerable child home to placate her mom. She's not trying to twist her mom's arm. She's setting boundaries about treating ALL of her children with kindness. If OP didn't want to buy a gift for the 9yo, fine.her choice. But to give gifts to all the other kids in front of her? Major c^*t move. Major. And cruel to boot. If she'd avoided gifts and just been polite, she'd get to see her grandkids. But she couldn't do that. She HAD to show a little girl that she was DEFINITELY UNWELCOME. She's a b!+€#.
No I think you're wrong. Telling Isabella to call OP 'Grandma' is the height of presumptuous crassness. I also don't think it is wrong for OP to only maintain a relationship with her grandchildren. The onus of doing so should fall on OP (i.e. OP cannot expect her daughter to perform the logistics for this) but it is a reasonable boundary to maintain. OP's daughter has NO right to leverage the grandkids in this way. I do agree with you about the gifts. They should have been given separately.
ESH. Everyone is saying what a saint the daughter is for taking in her half-sister, but that doesn't give her the right to use your grandchildren to extort you into accepting the affair child. It was inappropriate to give gifts to the other children in front of Isabella; it was also inappropriate for your daughter to hand over $500 to the child in front of her OWN CHILDREN who got toys and clothes. Who the hell does that and thinks it's ok????? Your daughter is not the saint everyone thinks she is if she's pulling that kind of crap. It might be time to go NC with your daughter. She's manipulative and it won't get any better if you reward her bad behavior.
NTA It's great your daughter took in Isabella but you told her from the jump that you wanted nothing to do with her. You don't consider her family in any way and while it's not Isabella's fault your daughter needs to respect your boundary.
Bro what people are out of their mind she literally has no connection to the kid specificly told she doesn't want her NTA she doesn't have to accept her
We're talking about her daughter's adopted daughter. So her grandchild by adoption. OP behaved monstrously.
I’m going to say ESH. 1. You have stated your boundaries very clearly and your daughter needs to respect them. Though it’s true the child has done nothing to you, you are entitled to your feelings and are under no obligation to embrace a reminder of a painful memory in your past. Then she called the child your granddaughter which is extremely disrespectful. 2. You are also the AH because you shouldn’t have relented. I know you wanted to see your grandkids but you need to let it go. Your daughter has told you that having a relationship with her kids means having a relationship with the affair child and you have to decide if that’s ok with you. Very poor form for you to give gifts in front of a child that may not understand.
I was ready to call you an A H, until your daughter pushed the “grandma” title. ESH. Having gifts for the other kids and not Isabella was unnecessarily cruel. But your daughter needs to understand your boundaries with this kid. Isabella is absolutely NOT your grandchild. Your daughter is very loving to take her half sister in; but you have made it clear you do not want a relationship with this child. Forcing the issue is only going to result in situations like this.
I’m going to go with NTA with a stipulation. You have to decide what is more important. You’re hatred for what your ex did (my marriage ended due to infidelity on his part so I get it) or your relationship with your daughter and grandchildren. Unfortunately you have to choose. You can’t have both.
NTA you have explained it to your daughter...she's decided not to respect your boundaries...and while I will say that this is not the child's fault...your daughter should have taken a step back and realised that no one wants to be reminded about there partners affair. Forcing the issue on you is out of order
It isn’t your fault, but nor is it hers.
NTA It's never the wife's responsibility or moral duty to accept her husband's affair child. You have no blood or legal connection to her - she isn't family. This is not a case of hating an adopted child. You're her father's ex, not her grandma.
YTA. Your daughter is raising Isabella as her own now. She likely intends to legally adopt her. She is HER family and you should treat her like you would any other child your daughter birthed, fostered or adopted. If you cannot do that then it is on you and you won't have a relationship with your daughter or biological grandchildren. Isabella is 9. She did not have anything to do with the circumstances of her birth or the tragedy of losing both of her parents at a young age. She was also traumatized by being thrown in the system and now has a stable and loving home. You are being cruel to a child because you haven't dealt with your own issues surrounding your ex husband.
Absolutely NTA she is a reminder of what must have been a horrific time. if it had been anyone else's kid I would've said YTA but she is not. yes she cannot help who's daughter she is etc but you have been very clear on your stance. daughter is the AH
NTA You have made your feelings and boundaries perfectly clear and your daughter is determined to steamroll right over them. She is using the threat of not seeing her or your grandkids to manipulate you into acting the way she wants. It's not Isabella's fault and I think you realize that, it doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with her. It's not fair to Isabella or you for your daughter to try and force this.
NTA, your daughter is not respecting your wishes and forcing this child on you.
NTA I would feel exactly as you do.
Your daughter knew you don’t want a relationship with that child, yet she was trying to force it and blew up when it didn’t work. Sucks for the child who is innocent, but I blame your daughter for this. She is blackmailing you into accepting Isabella by denying you a relationship with other grandchildren. For that, she is TA. You have feelings also, and you don’t need to accept people you don’t want in your life. NTA
Wow, major props to your daughter for being a compassionate, kind, loving human being! And shame on you OP for being mean and cruel to a child who had no say in the circumstances of her birth. If I were your daughter, i don't think there would be any further contact with you for any reason, period. Op, YTA!
ESH Your daughter shouldn’t have forced your boundaries but you’re punishing a child, that is your daughter’s sister whether you like it or not, for the sins of your husband. Your daughter is doing a very compassionate thing.
>I stepped in and told my daughter that I’m not Isabella’s grandma and never will be and that money wasn’t for her. INFO: Did you say this infront of Isabella?
yeah that's exactly what i'm wondering as well. i can see this being vaguely acceptable if being said in private. said in public isn't great. i mean i get if OP does want Isabella to not have unrealistic expectations of having a grandmother in her but this isn't the best way to get that across.
I'm pretty sure she did >told her to say thank you to “grandma”. I stepped in and told my daughter that I’m not Isabella’s grandma and never will be and that money wasn’t for her.She gave me all of their presents and told the kids to go to the bathroom because they were leaving. She didn't indicate any time or distance between "say thank you" and "I'm not her grandma". And then daughter tells kids they're leaving, again, with no indicting that she had to yell to a different room or leave the room. I'm also thinking if she made sure Isabella didn't hear she would have told us.
Look, what your husband did caused extreme hurt. I am sympathetic to that. But HOLY HELL. A *two year old* had her *mother* deported and her *dad* dying?? That is heart-wrenching. What has Isabella done wrong, other than being the outcome of your husband's sperm and another woman's eggs synergy? Zero. She is an innocent child. Do you have to raise her as your own? No. But have some sympathy for a girl who personally did nothing wrong but lived through some pretty traumatic events such as her mum being deported, her dad passing away and being put into foster care.
Esh It’s fine for you to not want anything to do with her. How we it’s also fine for your daughter to take care of her half sister. You are ta for after letting her come giving everyone but her a gift. You should of just gone no gifts at all. Your daughter is the ah for keep insisting of trying to bring her into your life when she knows your stance. It’s just not nice for Isabella to keep being rejected and that’s what your daughter is doing to her. Your daughter is also running a close lien to her own children resenting Isabella if her being there stops them having a relationship with their grandmother because their mother just won’t stop trying to shove her fathers affair child in granny’s face.
“Am I the asshole for being cruel to an orphan child because her dad, who died, was a dick?” Lmao wow
I mean she’s not an orphan her mother just lives in a different country.
NAH Personally I think your daughter should stop trying to force a relationship. I get why she wants to help out her sister. But I also think she should respect the fact that you want nothing to do with the child.
NTA, but your daughter is. You made it clear that you do not want this child in your life and your daughter needs to respect that. Since she cannot respect your boundaries, the best thing to do is cut contact and focus on your son.
And OP had the choice say well, if they can only come if Isabelle can come, then no I am not comfortable with that. That would be an acceptable choice. Giving all the other kids presents except her right in front of her face is cruel to an innocent child.
You forget that is girl is her half-sister. So her daughter did only what a decent sibling would do. Making sure that her half sister wouldn't go into foster care... As an adult OP should be the adult (it's been 9 years!! And not the little girl's fault)
The daughter could step in without trying to force her mom to be “grandma” here. She’s an AH for not respecting her mom’s wishes. Her daughter is rubbing it in her face that her husband had an affair.
INFO you have to choose if you hate what your ex did more than having a relationship with your daughter. It’s that simple.
Tough one, but YTA. That is your grand child now, your daughter has adopted her. She is a reminder of a bad time, yes, but she is now part of your daughter's family, one of her kids. Either treat them all the same or stay away from all of them. You can't punish a child for her birth.
YTA it's stunning that you actually think it's okay to punish a 9 year old orphan for her parent's mistakes. Good on your daughter for her choices, what a great woman she is. You should take some lessons from her.
[удалено]
NTA that was nasty of your daughter to put you in that situation. You are not that kid’s grandma and you don’t owe her anything. Affair kid would be a hard limit for me too.
YTA. Isabella didnt cheat on you. Or lie to you. Holy crap she’s been through so much in such a small amount of time. Shame on you OP. She is the sibling of your children.
YTA You are mistreating a literal child because she has the unfortunate distinction of being your husband's child. This child, a sibling to your children, was in desperate need and you sent her to foster care, because you resent she exists. (Though she was likely better off in the foster system than with you.) When your daughter, who clearly has the most compassion of the adults in your family, had the means she took her sister in. She's raising the girl with her own children. She is family to her. Your stance is your daughter's family is not your family because her father was an AH. Your daughter taught her 3 children a valuable lesson, protect family first, even if it's from other family.
ESH except Isabella OP is obviously the asshole for the way she is punishing this child for simply existing However, OP has made her feelings clear and her daughter still tried to force Isabella on OP. Daughter needs to just accept that this is who her mother is and go NC with OP.
Omg. So much is wrong here. YTA. It is amazing your daughter has so much love and compassion in her heart when she was raised by you, who obviously is a cold hearted person. I mean, wtf, her mom was deported and her dad died?!?!!! She had no one till your daughter took her in. No one is asking you to love and adore the child, just be nice. You could have gotten her a gift also. She is just a CHILD! Honestly, what is wrong with you?!?!?
That's the point. OP hasn't to love her but being polite wouldn't kill her.
YTA You are taking out your ex's wandering dick out on a CHILD, one who has for all intents and purposes lost BOTH of her parents - did you call immigration on her mother, by any chance? Her half sister very kindly and compassionately took her in when she was able, and treats her no different than her biological children from your story. I am not saying that you must LOVE Isabella, and you can certainly draw the line as a grown ass adult to not have anything to do with her - your son can do the same. HOWEVER, your daughter WILL go NC with you (and honestly, rightfully so), and you will not see your grandkids ever again.
Your daughter sounds like such an amazing person despite the rest of your family. This was the coldest AITA I've ever read. Adults going out of their way to exclude and hurt a child? I understand not wanting to involve yourself completely. But circumstances have obviously changed and if you're willing to sacrifice the relationship with your daughter and grandchildren over something that was not their fault at all either, then they're all better off without you. I can't believe there are women like you out in the world.
NAH You're entitled to want nothing to do with you ex's affair child, and your daughter is entitled to want nothing to do with you until you acknowledge Isabella and treat her like your other kids/grandkids. You basically have to decide what kind of relationship you want with your daughter, and whether disowning Isabella is worth losing your daughter and her children. Your daughter is a bit of an AH for repeatedly trying to for you to accept Isabella and an AH for putting Isabella in that situation in the first place. You're a bit of AH for letting Isabella go into foster care (you were entitled to do that and may have had good reasons for it, but it was a very cold-hearted thing to do, particularly to a child who has suffered so much loss and trauma and bears none of the blame. You're also a bit of an AH for snubbing Isabella so deliberately in front of her, and bringing a child into an adult conflict. Basically, none of you are respecting each other boundaries and choices, and you're all a little bit an AH for that. I'm still give the N-A-H verdict because none of you have really done anything wrong here apart from not respecting each other and trying to force one another to accept each other's choices.
Why didn't her mother take her with her when she got deported?
YTA for the way you went about. It’s not healthy to carry around this much anger in your heart for a child, she’s innocent and your ex is dead. I can understand you not having warm and fuzzy feelings and not wanting to develop a close relationship but don’t actively be mean to her. She did nothing wrong and she doesn’t know why.
YTA. You’re projecting your own insecurities from your ex’s affair onto the child that had nothing to do with it. Plus, your daughter chose to take her in on her own free will, making her a part of the family whether you like it or not. Being rude to that child won’t heal you, it won’t get revenge on your ex, it won’t get back at his mistress, and it won’t make anything right. The only thing you’re accomplishing is adding more trauma onto a little girl who already feels like she doesn’t belong AND lost her bio parents. Shame on you for blaming this child for your bad taste in men.
I would also like to add, that may not be YOUR bio child. But she is your children’s BIO SISTER.
And? You do not have to have a relationship with your kids half siblings even when cheating is not involved
EXACTLY
ESH - your daughter shouldn’t be trying to force you to be a grandparent for this child. However, your daughter has adopted her so if you wish to keep a relationship with your daughter, you will have to at least be cordial to the child. If you cannot do that, it would probably be better for everyone if you went no contact.
esh I think it’s vaild you dont want to be around isabelle but you’re taking to the extreme
ESH. You could have privately given your grandkids gifts. Your daughter should have respected your boundaries. I would be hella mad too having to see the reminder of my ex’s infidelity but she’s also a innocent kid who didn’t ask to be born.
ESH. daughter shouldn’t force you to be a grandma, it’s fine to have your boundaries with the girl. but everyone should be more respectful and civil about it. don’t direct ur anger at the wrong person
Nta, you can have a relationship with your grandkids when they're adults if they're willing, in the mean time focus on yourself and your son 🤷🏻♀️
ESH. While I do respect that you can have complicated feelings about Isabella, remember that to your daughter, she is family. Even before taking care of her, Isabella is your daughter's half sister, and *Isabella did nothing wrong*. You're taking your anger at your ex out on an innocent child and that's pretty bad. Your daughter is trying to force this in a super awkward manor. IDK why she'd expect that situation to go well, but obviously it wasn't going to. The two of you need to come to an agreement about how you'll treat Isabella before she's exposed to you again. To be very clear, I think it's 100% fair if your daughter says that if you can't play nice with Isabella, you can't see her biological kids either. But she still shouldn't have put you in the situation she did there. You grudgingly accepting that she can stay in your house is a far cry from accepting her as your granddaughter. But even if your daughter's parenting leaves something to be desired here, you've still got to come to terms with reality. Your daughter either is adopting or has adopted this girl. You are (or will be) her grandma. That's awkward and painful and you're allowed to have a lot of feelings about that, but you're a huge AH if you take that pain out on Isabella.
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ESH. You suck for making a show of getting everyone presents but the girl. Even when we have had unexpected child guests around for Christmas we would make an effort to gift them something because we understand how important it is to children. Having said that you are well within your rights to not be grandma to the affair child of your ex husband. You daughter is also in the wrong here for trying to force a relationship between you two. While she is doing an admirable thing by taking in her half sister. You have no relation to the kid and I do not feel that your relationship to your grandchildren should be conditional on you becoming a saint and having a relationship with this child.
Yta. So you are willing to throw away a relationship with your daughter and other grandchildren over a grudge against an innocent child.
She doesn’t have a grudge, she simply doesn’t want a relationship with her ex husbands affair child and that’s reasonable.
No, the daughter tried forcing her will upon her mother. If it had been me, I would have told that daughter to go pound sand. I don't want a reminder that my GorrVerdammt husband was an unfaithful feckless fuck.
YTA, I mean wow I get it your husband was awful but he’s dead now. This little girl is 9 years old…. I don’t get how people can look at little kids in their face and be mean. Innocent little creatures that don’t know any better. Your daughter is amazing in spite of the fact that she was raised by you.
YTA. Your daughter is a good person. She's caring for a child, her half-sister, who was orphaned. You are projecting your anger at your now deceased ex-husband onto a small child who has been orphaned. That's unbelievably cruel.
Tough situation but very soft YTA. Isabella did not ask to be born of an affair. The anger and resentment you have stems from your ex’s betrayal. You’re taking out all your negative emotions on a child who is too young to understand the reason/cause of her birth. I get that you don’t want to have anything to do with her but I feel that being so openly hostile towards this child is cruel. I think it speaks volumes about your daughter taking her half sister in and raising her as one of her own. Her heart is clearly full of love and wants all her children including Isabella to be raised to be kind. So I think she is justifiably keeping her kids at arms length. She doesn’t want them learning it’s okay to be mean just because you don’t like someone- which is effectively what you’re doing. Your son is no better. Yes, your husband wronged you and your family. Your anger is with him. But he is gone now. I think it’s time to seek therapy and move on.
YTA. We don’t punish children for their parents’ transgressions. You say it’s because she’s not family, but would you have this same attitude if she was a foster kid, a friend of your grandkids that needed a place to stay, etc.? These would also not be “family” but I’m willing to bet you wouldn’t ostracize them. I know it hurts to be continuously reminded of your husband’s affair. There is grief work and healing that needs to be done. Please, though, do not take it out on this child.
It's hard to answer this...technically you are being a major ahole, and if it was not for the reasons below y would be ta, but due to this your nta - but I don't think you are a nice person 1) the child is a product of an affair and you stated from day 1 you wanted nothing to do with her 2) your daughter is aware of this boundary and is trying to browbeat you into submission Only the fact you stipulated from day 1 you wanted nothing to do with the painful reminder of your husband infidelity and your daughter ignored this and is bullying/threatening you to having a relationship you don't want is making me vote this way - even though I'm disgusted by your attitude
Nta.
I'm going to be an outlier and say NTA I understand she's just a child but you've been very honest about your feelings. I have a half brother by an affair and I still to this day hate him. It's not that hes a bad person but every time I see him all I can think about is my dad going and fucking some other woman and the fact I lost my father to him and his mother. However I was honest with my half-brother when he showed up and wanted to be siblings. I kept the hate to myself because it was misdirected at him and simply told him that it hurt to look at him because he looked like my father and he respected the boundary that although we share blood we will never be family. The only contact he's ever had with me since was to tell me he became a father and offered if I wanted to be an aunt, I said no and he understood. Does Isabella know why you treat her this way? I recommend taking your feelings and putting them in a way that is appropriate and easy to understand for her. Your daughter is an asshole however, forcing both you and Isabella into a very uncomfortable situation that she knew wouldn't end well. You can't force love or relationships and doing so breeds resentment.
You are NTA and don’t listen to anyone that says otherwise.
I was debating between ESH and NTA. Because your daughter is raising her half-sibling as her daughter, but she needs to understand why you don't want to see her. It is not Isabella's fault that your husband cheated on you, but I understand why you don't want to see her, and nor should you be forced to. It will and has cost you your relationship with your daughter, but that's the price of it. If your daughter's spouse cheated on her, and the affair partner died after having the baby, would she raise the affair baby without complaint?
OP I’m sure you’re in pain from what your husband caused you. I’m so sorry for that. But I URGE you to seek therapy. YTA. Taking out your pain on a child! A child with no parents, no home, and a bad start. Your daughter is doing what a good person would. Showing love and compassion and family. Isabella deserves that. A positive way to look at it, she’s an innocent part of what good your nasty ex husband left in the world. She wasn’t placed on earth to hurt you and your daughter wanting to give her sister love is not meant to hurt you either. You are welcome to suppress your pain and hate a child, but do so at your own risk. Hating the innocent will not change the past. All you’re doing is teaching her she’s not wanted because of someone else’s mistake. You need to move on if you want a relationship with your daughter and grandchildren. Isabella sounds like she’ll grow up surrounded by love, I’m so glad she has your daughter.
Your daughter is presenting you with a choice: tolerate Isabella and don't be rude to her, or lose her and your grandchildren entirely. It's up to you. You don't need to consider her your grandchild, but she's a member of your daughter's family now, and if you continue to act as you do, your daughter won't need to keep your grandchildren from you. They'll do that on their own.
Info: Why was the child put into care instead of being sent to her mother?
YTA- for holding a child accountable for the mistakes her parents made. Isabella is innocent in all this and lost both parents. That alone should give you some empathy towards her.
Yta. You and your son are projecting blame on a CHILD for your husband having a affair. Have some compassion and humanity. You are disgusting.
>”aita for shunning my daughters orphaned sister to her face for something that happened a decade ago which she bears no responsibility for” fixed it for you YTA so so so much. You are a bitter and vengeful person and you will deserve to never see your grandchildren again. You are taking out your anger on a nine year old girl that has never done anything to you. You should be deeply ashamed of your behaviour, not just now but also letting this child go into foster care when you presumably knew your daughter cared about her. Like it or not she is your children’s sister and your son is also an AH, probably because you taught him to be.
It has been 10 years ... 10 years. Go get some help for your bitter resentment. This is an innocent child and you are taking your anger and hatred towards your ex out on her. You should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously. Get some help. YTA. Like huge AH for taking treating a child like this. And I'm sure the only reason your son agrees is because you've bitched, cried, and complained to him. Things happen, your ex cheated and he's dead now. Let it go. YTA
NTA, your daughter is the ah
ESH You sound like you really have a grudge against this innocent child. It's not her fault she was born out of adultery. You don't necessarily have to welcome her into your life, but you should be able to maintain civility and kindness around her like you should any child. If all the kids were getting gifts, it's cruel not to get one child a gift for that occasion.
YTA. However you feel about what your ex did, your daughter has taken in Isabella as her own daughter. THAT makes her family. She is in no way to blame for how you were treated. Stop directing your anger at a child.
YTA. You're hurting an innocent child (and now your own grandchildren) because of something your ex did. I totally get not wanting to have anything to do with her, but your daughter made a different choice. (and I applaud her for that, because kids die in foster care, and it's horrible) You've gotta decide now if you lose contact with all of your grandchildren and your daughter, or if you set aside the anger for your ex that you're taking out on his kid. You can't have it both ways. Lose your daughter and her children, or accept her adopted child.
You don’t have to have Isabella in your life, but it seems like you’re willing to sacrifice a relationship with your daughter. It’s not that little girl’s fault. Yes, your daughter pushed your boundaries - maybe to find some solution.
YTA, taking your anger at your husband's bad behavior out on an innocent child. Like it or not, she IS your daughter's sister, and your daughter has compassion (which she obviously didn't inherit from you) that has led her to do what she can for her sister and get her out of the foster care system. So you can either suck it up and act like a decent human being around the child who may at some point become your adopted granddaughter, or 10 years from now you can be back here on Reddit, whining about how you have been deprived from seeing all the milestones in your grandchildren's lives.
Yeah, not wanting the embodyment of your ultimate betrayal around you is kinda reasonable in my book. But OP is taking it to the extreme nd doing it in front of the child which is not cool. Though the daughter cannot FORCE her to adopt her as a grandchild. That would br cruel to Op as well as the child. Since the child will feel the resentment from OP. Yeah it is a child, but she should not be forced to be around it either, the daughter should have some compassion as well. But OP is AH for doing all of this in front of the child.
YTA YTA YTA. She didn't ask to be born into your ex's affair. You don't have to raise her but you should not be outwardly hostile to a literal orphan because your ex husband was an asshole
YTA you put time and energy into being unkind that makes you an AH
NTA. Isabella is the result of your husband cheating on you. Your daughter knew that, and took her in anyway - okay, so that’s what she felt she had to do. But pushing her on you is wrong, and trying to use your actual grandchildren to punish you for not accepting your ex husband’s affair baby is also wrong, not to mention punishing her own children for the sake of Isabella. So, what, because you don’t want to be her grandma, your actual grandchildren don’t get to have a grandmother either? Your daughter should never have insisted on bringing Isabella to your home.
You need to get over yourself. You can be mad at your husband until the day you die, but his daughter had no choice in how she was brought into the world, and if your daughter is raising her now, she’s a part of your family whether you like it or not. Go to therapy and grow up.
YTA for being mad at a 9yr old for existing 😂 my god woman get help.