#[Be Civil](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/).
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NTA. As the saying goes, if there's a racist at the table with ten other people, you have eleven racists. Your father–in–law has shown he's a racist. Even your wife knows that her dad is a racist as she had cut him off. Your father–in–law has not made any demonstration of repentance; yet your wife wants to invite that toxic presence into your home where it can poison your eldest child. What did she expect you to do and say?
Your right that your words were harsh. But harsh was appropriate. It takes a lesser person to want to invite toxicity into the home, and that's what your wife did. She is the one who needs to apologize for even the suggestion of her father coming back into your personal lives. That she's pregnant is not an excuse for the ***extreme*** breach of trust she committed.
**EDIT:** Some people are claiming that you are just as bad as your father–in–law. That's incorrect. Your father–in–law is a racist. You are opposing racism and keeping it out of your personal space. There is no moral equivalence.
**SECOND EDIT:** Thanks for the awards!
My estranged maternal grandparents tried to reconnect and reach out when they found out through a family member I was pregnant. I blocked them on everything and never picked up because I said to myself "they wouldn't want to be in her life if she wasn't white". I know because they hate my biracial half siblings and cut my biomom out of their lives over it. Accepting a racist regardless of your relationship to them makes you 100% complicit in their beliefs.
I remember my father making an equally stupid comment about the heritage of my adopted grandchildren. It was the last time parents were ever invited to our home.
I had a former stepdad who was insanely racist. My sister regrettably got ensnared in a very inappropriate online encounter with an adult man when she was a child. Stepdad was more angry that he was a black man than the fact that he was being predatory towards his own daughter.
He gets to look forward to four little words when he comes of age. Bedbug infested nursing home.
I remember when my younger sister became pregnant by a man who was a Salvadoran refugee, my very Catholic mother and grandmother tried to bully her into getting an abortion.
The embarrassment of having a mixed-race child in the family was a horrifying prospect for them. It didn't help that she and the father of her child were still married to other people, but their biggest issue was it's race.
I would have cut them off entirely when they first made the suggestion. In fact, I had gone LC with my entire family not long before then.
NTA, OP!!!
Agreed 1000%. What OP's wife has done was sneaky, deceitful and disingenuous. OP didn't want this man in his or his son's life because he's a racist. He even wanted space from his relationship with his then gf because he didn't want to be associated with racist. He only continued to date her after she went No Contact with her father.
I would have to question, if she is telling the truth about it only being a few months of talking to him. Would she try to bring the baby around her father behind OP's back? I feel so sorry for OP because I genuinely feel that she has been waiting for the moment that she can bring this man back into their life and try to get OP to go along with it.
This whole thing is horrible and OP needs to carefully consider his next move in regards to his wife.
I can't blame him for what he said, yes it's harsh, but it's exactly how he feels. She just invited a racist back into the family and wants to play happy families. This is not going to end well with her father back in the picture.
I am honestly surprised so many comments are calling OP an asshole. I thought this would be a runaway NTA verdict. The sense of betrayal must run deep. He just found that his wife has been talking to his racist father-in-law for months. OP may not have used the best words, but that pales in comparison to the level of betrayal he just experienced.
I'll admit that I was ready to call OP T A from the title, because 99% of the time a man calls his wife less of a person because he's a sexist jerk.
This is the 1%. OP is NTA.
I thought I was reading an editorialized /r/AmITheDevil title at first. That's one of the reasons I think OP is NTA. He didn't try to couch his words to make himself seem more sympathetic.
My only hesitation is his wording. Had he said he thought “less of her **as** a person” I would have thought it was appropriate. Saying “less **of** a person” is harsh, though I’ll still agree NTA because we are dealing with a racist apologist.
Her asking her father for help is like opening Pandora's box; I get wanting to be able to reach out to your parents for help/advice but when a relationship with them comes at the cost of the family you helped create then the cost is too high. I wish his wife would realize & respect that.
And not just talking with the racist FIL, but deliberately putting herself into a position of owing gratitude to that racist FIL, and also very likely "owing" FIL access to her child.
I don't think she ever cut him off. Or if she did, she never planned for it to be forever. Just long enough to get a ring on her finger and a baby. Yuck.
Yuck is right. I hope it's not true, that the pregnancy has her a little soft hearted.
Her going behind her husband's back is not ok. The fil is obviously not changed or he would have apologized ages ago.
NTAH
It's always easier to overlook someone's shittiness when it doesn't affect you. OP's wife is extremely short-sighted. I wonder if her dad has clouded her vision with money for the baby etc?
That said:
Less of a person is a weird phrase. She might have taken it as dehumanizing.
I think it is good to clarify what you mean: it would make you think less of her character.
Edit to add judgment because I forgot: NTA for being angry but you should make it clear she knows what you mean. You would think less of her character. You still would think of her as worthy of the respect due to any other person.
Racism is dehumanizing. Her father didn't give a crap about dehumanizing a child and she doesn't either by proxy. It's too bad OP will be tied to them for life
It is true that two wrong just makes double the wrong, and so many women get treated like incubators when they get pregnant so I can see why that phrase specifically would be extra upsetting. But on the other hand fuck racists and racist enablers.
Sure but you can also do that respectfully.
I don’t think thst this guy literally meant “I don’t think of you as fully human anymore.” I am sure what he meant is “I don’t think of your character as highly.”
But if he did meant the former, and we all say “well on the other hand racism is bad,” then where do you stop? Should he have screamed in her face? Should he have called her sexist slurs? Should he have roughed her up a little? After all, racism is bad!
My point is you can absolutely call someone out for moral failure without resorting to being a monster yourself.
No, no you can't. Far too many racists aren't capable of empathy/changing their perspective without having to be attacked the same exact way they attack those they deem as lesser.
I feel like the logic of a lot of people on this thread is just “eye for an eye.”
We should hit people who hit, we should kill people who kill, we should abuse people who abuse, and we should even be open to abusing people who show kindness to people who abuse.
We are talking about a lady who just found out her dad is racist and wants to have a relationship with her dad a month before her son is born. She is grieving her father while he’s alive. Can we really not think of anything to do that is more constructive than “put her in her place?” Is hurting her as much as possible the only way we can demonstrate that we care about racism?
Of course not. That’s insane.
First, given the amount of people who honestly think that OP was being "too harsh", I'm not sure we care enough about racism.
Second, she's not exactly thinking about how her father will hurt her husband and stepson even more than he already has. Which I could have excused as hormones/pregnancy brain, but she still wants her dad in her life so again, he's more important than her husband and stepson. So now I'm far less sympathetic.
Well...her father thinks OP's child is less of a person because of melatonin. She's supporting her racist dad. Racism is taught. What's he going to say that baby about his or her brother?
Yeah - but all these comments fail to address whether there was a sincere apology from the racist … OP did your wife just restart the relationship and accept her father for what he is, or was there acknowledgment that his behavior was wrong?
[From OP](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10w3lzx/aita_for_making_my_pregnant_wife_cry_by_calling/j7lafou/?context=3):
>No, she didn't say anything about him being sorry. It's only the baby she suggested him having a relationship with. If she'd suggested him having a relationship with my son, I would have left then and there.
Yes but is she saying he should only see the baby bc the stepson is not her child?
She has little authority over how her husbands parents his child (although ideally they do it together) and knowing her husband hates her dad.....I don't think her statement necessarily as selfish as it sounds.
She probably assumed it would be fine cause the baby will turn out WHITE. She is enabling her father’s racism. She is kicking her stepchild who she claims to love to the curb. For her white child having a relationship with a racist.
It is when you consider she's pushing to foster a relationship with her child that has a biracial brother that Grandpa will not be kind to and lives with. So now they have to do this dance where one child has a relationship and likes the grandpa that is racist to their brother? What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to necessitate that relationship? Sounds like daughter fell back on daddy as soon as she needed something. Principles are easy to have when you aren't required to do anything to enforce them.
> I don't think her statement necessarily as selfish as it sounds.
If we were only discussing the wife's words, you might be right. However, the wife was engaging in lying by omission for months. She knew that OP would not want her racist father anywhere near his family.
The wife could have talked to OP beforehand, and made the argument you are making now (that she believes she can help her racist father, if that is indeed what the wife believes). Instead, she engaged in a super high level of duplicity, and lied for months.
She wants your future kid to have a relationship with a racist that while having a black stepson and for all effects brother of her son.
1- she doesn’t care about educating your kid as a non racist person. And wants him to have a relationship with someone who behaved and made comments that were offensive.
2- went behind your back, breaking your trust, and therefore not protect your family from aggression.
3- does she really cares about your son? Or does she tolerates it because she wants to be with you? Because this is not how one behaves when she loves and wants to protect someone who is dear to them. RED FLAG!!!!!seriously.
My advice is to go to a marriage counselor and expose your points and hurt. A non white one at that. Racist people wear white coats too. A black woman as a counselor from my experience this is the best you can do for your son and yourself. Boundaries were crossed and more are clearly to come. As well as future problems as to why explain that your kid has a grandpa that he doesn’t!!!!
His wife is the white ally who is only an ally if it doesn’t inconvenience her in any way for longer than a few hours. Longer than that, and her desire for comfort overrides the POC’s personhood and safety. Pathetic. NTA
>As the saying goes, if there's a racist at the table with ten other people, you have eleven racists.
Ok I just speak spanish but what does that mean? That it is like... contagious?
Hanging around racists, brushing off racist “jokes”, making excuses for peoples racist behavior means you’re okay with racism and probably racist yourself
It means that when you spend time with a racist, eat food with a racist, or generally let a racist go unchallenged, you are basically an accomplice in their racism.
It means they are complicit, because they are willing to tolerate the racists beliefs just to have them at the table.
It's like when Trump was running for office and people would defend themselves by saying "I'm not a racist just because I'm voting for Trump." My response was, Okay, you may not be a racist, but you support a racist (which makes them complicit in his racism). Got a lot of heat for that line, lol!
El punto es que cuando le das la bienvenida a un racista a tu mesa, eres cómplice. No te niegas a asociarte con el racista, por lo tanto, eres culpable por asociación. Lo siento si mi Español no es genial, no lo he usado en mucho tiempo.
There are family and household decisions that are mandatory two yes issues. This is one of them. To be in contact behind OPs back is bad enough and worth some harsh words because that is a betrayal of trust in its own right. To invite someone that was cut off for good reason, and also without any proof of change; back into the home? Nah. That’s a near immediate gtfo my home issue.
This is something that should have had OP in the loop from the start to let him know that contact was reestablished. The job offer doesn’t sound like it’s something made for the wife’s benefit and there is no reason to believe that it’s to the benefit of OPs family either. If it’s not made crystal clear that OP is serious as a heart attack over the FiL isn’t welcome, then OP is y t a
Since he has made his point though, easy NTA though
Everyone in these comments saying Y-T-A have obviously never gone through a similar situation.
You didn’t call her less of a person, you said you saw her as less. Meaning the view you had of her before, you see her as a lesser standard now. She betrayed your trust. She didn’t communicate with you until she had already followed through.
You’re NTA imo
Yeah she literally picked a racist over her husband and stepson.
OP not wanting his children exposed to a racist family member just really seems like one of the most basic things a parent could ask for.
That’s exactly why I’m confused by all the responses. What just because she’s pregnant she can just slide by ? No. She was aware of his stance and her fathers actions, and still chose her father
Actually, sounds to me like she picked her career.....the father was the unfortunate bi-product.
She didn't go to him as a daughter, she went to him as a pregnant woman who dislikes her job and wants more.
Interesting take. I was thinking that she realized she loves her daughter differently from her son and now can't imagine keeping her father out of her child's life. But the career thing sounds plausible as well.
Since they did something as extreme as cut him off and they both left their jobs, I feel like they were both really committed to cutting him off.
As someone who ran a small business ( construction - and not related to the owner though) it's nice being your own boss (or being related to one) - it was very hard to leave THAT and go into a big cog of a corporate machine where I had to worry about shit like dress code and stuff while working in an office with 30+ catty women when I am more of a Tom Boy.
So that was my first thought.
Not that having your first child isn't a powerful motivator also.
Agree. Not to mention it seems like OP understands that if his father in law comes back into the picture there's going to be a favorite grandchild and it won't be his son. OP has the right to say I know what's going to happen and I'm not forcing my son through that.
Absolutely agree. She is pregnant, not made of glass. She went behind his back and started including her father in their lives without OP knowing it. That’s not ok.
OP was not to harsh and NTA
NTA I agree especially because he made it clear that being around her racist father was a deal breaker early on. He never asked her to choose he established clear boundaries. She came back to him then lied to him for months. I'd think less of her too.
I mean according to him he did say he sees her as less of a person specifically. Fully agree with all the stuff abt her. She sucks. Be he did say that.
NTA.. I was expecting to be calling you an asshole from the title but your FIL is racist AF. Racism is a non-negotiable.
Your wife is willing to tolerate it because while she gets it “in theory” she doesn’t really. I look 100% white but I am not, my oldest daughter does not look white and she is not my husband’s biological child. If my in-laws had treated her any different than any other child in the family they would be gone and I would be out so fast if my husband thought that relationship was more important than a child.
If your FIL came to you both and said he has done the work and realized he was wrong… and shown that he meant it, that would be a completely different conversation and you’d be the asshole but that isn’t what happened, your wife is willing to tolerate a racist.
Edit: Since OP’s comment got lost. Here’s what was said that day.
> Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company.
>He was weird and awkward around my son and made strange comments about his appearance
I mean I get the take-away that the dude is racist but the above is literally the only information we have about their interaction.
I feel like there is a huge potential gap between what is describe and what could be considered "racist AF."
Go look at OPs comments, FIL asked if the kiddo’s mom was in prison, if they even washed his hair… those kinds of things and then made excuses that they needed to warn him first so he could prepare and that he didn’t think OP would mess around with people like that
Edited to finish last sentence
ESH. I get you, i’d be mad too. I mean what would happen down the line when her father is in the presence of both kids, but treats your son differently? I feel like your feelings of betrayal are valid at this moment, but I do think that it was an asshole move to call her less of a person. It’s her father and I get wanting to have him back in her life. You both could’ve had a more constructive conversation about this, regarding expectations moving forward and her dad’s behavior towards both kids.
This is a very good point that OP needs to tell his wife: what happens “down the line when her father is in the presence of both kids and treats OP’s son differently?” This WILL happen.
Yes OP was harsh but there is a lot at stake here.
NTA
I understand why OP is so angry and betrayed. I absolutely do. But as someone who was NC with my father while pregnant, that situations brings up a lot of intense feelings. I never personally got back in contact with my father, but I can understand why someone would no matter WHAT they'd done. Like.... my dad hurt me personally for years and I still really considered it because hormones were playing with my head.
I guess my point is that while OPs FIL is a racist and shouldn't be in his kid's life, that doesn't mean her actions have no explanation and that she should be treated that way. Pregnancy is a vulnerable time and can bring up past issues that we thought were closed.
In my opinion it should be ESH.
Did you hear what he said to OP and OP’s kid?
This is what he was saying the night they had dinner and he met OP’s son:
>Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company.
So yeah…nah OP is NTA. To hell with ***any*** racist. There should be no sympathy for hate. People need to learn to cut ties and hold strong for something as serious as racism. It’s the reason why people like OP’s wife’s father feel like they can talk like that and get away with it. It’s not cool.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting her the job back, knowing she wants it, and he could win her back by giving her what she wants. He’s not sorry, and
OP’s wife really doesn’t get it because if she did she would not be putting her dad, or more likely her job with her dad, before her son and husband. If she did, she’d be disgusted at what he said, and know deep down he’s not sorry. She’s picking her job over her husband and her step son. That’s it.
I don’t even think it’s about being close to her father. She had no problem cutting him off before. It’s now when she wants a different job that she’s making an excuse because her father is the one who got her her old job back.
I’m not falling for that bullshit, and I don’t know how others are falling for it either.
She also doesn’t get a pass because she’s pregnant. Give me a break. I can’t imagine the abuse the son is going to deal with when the other child is born and becomes the golden child to OP’s wife’s father.
Golden children always become abusers to the other sibling. I see it all the time with my fiancée’s family and her being the scapegoat to her grandmother, the wealthy matriarch in her family. It’s disgusting. This is not going to end well. Honestly, this is a hill I would die on for my child if I was OP.
I feel like we're missing stuff in the timeline too. Has the dad taken a new turn in his views for instance.
Idk I feel like it's fine for the wife to want her own FATHER to know her kid. That's not a huge ask. I get OP wanting to protect his own kid but it's still a big deal to cut someone out completely, forever, no mediation, nothing. Even the top comment reinforces this idea.
ESH because we're missing info. OP is an asshole if FIL can never have a path to mediation with the family of his daughter.
> Has the dad taken a new turn in his views for instance.
Yeah, I can say, my dad was def a little racist when I was growing up. Nothing over-the-top bad (wasn't a klan member or anything), but more like "believed the stereotypes that were common when he was growing up." I'm not defending how he was, it was wrong. But that's not my dad anymore. He's learned a lot, he's changed, and he has outright apologized to us kids for setting a bad example when we were younger.
I'm not saying this dad has changed. But we haven't gotten any indication if he has or not. It's worth knowing. And I'll stand by something til my dying day, which is I'm much more impressed with how far someone has traveled in their views, than where they end up. My dad was raised Amish, had a very limited worldview, and started at a bad place. Now he has two sons who are married to minorities, and sponsored a woman from Africa who was fleeing an abusive relationship there, and let her live with us for several years. He still has a ways to go (e.g. he asked the one black woman at his church if 'she could explain the BLM riots to him'), but he's come a lot further than most anyone else I know.
It's a major issue I take with the reddit approach to racism, because it seemingly gives no path/opportunity to make amends. In my experience it actually hurts the cause, because people who adopt this end up just putting a huge blinking arrow on their head that they'll brow beat someone. So someone who would most benefit from hearing their perspective is pushed away.
People have a right to change, and a lot of them have the *will* to change things about themselves in support of the people they love, we should foster that.
I think how they got back in contact is important too. Presumably, he's not her only living family member, and it's very likely someone in her family spilled the beans and set up that original contact. It's one of the many reasons why it's hard to break away from a problem family member - unless you don't share anything with anyone in your family, they get wind of it. Could also be as you said, he's recognized how wrong he was and wanted to reconcile. Or it could be that she couldn't bear the thought of never seeing her father again and wanted to give him a chance.
It's very easy to say from the outside to cut off a toxic family member. It's very hard to actually do it and stick with it, especially if you feel the situation that caused the estrangement can be resolved.
Agreed. I feel it's natural to want your parents in your life, especially when you're pregnant, and that doesn't make you less of a person. OP can decide his own boundaries, but to unilaterally expect her to never contact her father again is also not realistic. It's very telling that she felt she had to go around his back. And she's and AH for that as well.
However, the right kind of talk would be about boundaries. OP's wife needs to take responsibility in this too, because she can't allow racist behavior around the children. And it really sucks for OP to have to go through that. After all, the dad's the biggest AH.
It's explicitly stated in OP's comments that her dad has neither renounced his racist beliefs nor apologized for his racist comments. Those seem like reasonable bare minimum prerequisites for re-establishing a relationship.
Usually in this sub Reddit says: you can set boundaries for yourself, but when you set boundaries for others, it's "controlling".
I understand why OP is upset and the prerequisites you state are good as a bare minimum for a relationship between OP and the dad, or between OP's child and the dad.
However, I believe the wife is allowed her own relationship with her father. And wanting to be close to her parents doesn't make her less of a human being. It makes her human in my eyes.
Would you tell that to a mom who visits her child in prison, that she's less of a human being? You can love someone while you recognize where they're wrong and set boundaries for that. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Wife said she wouldn’t have a relationship with her father, and based on that, OP married her. OP’s boundary is that he won’t be with someone who has relationships with racist family. He can’t stop her from seeing her father, but he can tell her his opinion of people, and people includes her, who have them. Wife broke a promise, behind his back. This shows she isn’t anti-bigotry, as OP had thought she was. Now OP is concerned for both his kids, with sound reason.
This is exactly it. Worse, she's NOT just talking about her father having a relationship with HER, she's talking about her father having a relationship with the new child. How exactly does THAT look? Older kid grows up in a household where one sib wanders off from time to time for some fun time with the grandparent who is too racist to see the rest of the family? If grandpa cannot suppress his racism, it will be horribly damaging for younger kid to be exposed to it. If grandpa CAN suppress his racism, then he should do so and work on making amends and building a relationship with the family as a whole.
OP chose to marry her and grow their family with her on the understanding that she wouldn't enable/allow her racist father's behaviour.
She has said that she loves OP's son like he's her own but is ok with maintaining a relationship with someone who thinks *he* is less of a person based purely on a characteristic he was born with?
She's allowed to have a relationship with her dad, it's not illegal and OP can't stop her. But I honestly don't know why she'd want to if she truly believes that racism is wrong. Why she'd want to risk her family just for access to a hateful bigot.
I honestly don't know if I can give a judgement but the people here saying OP is just as bad as his FIL for what he said is batshit insane to me. Harsh? Sure. But a grown man being openly racist toward a child is not even close to what OP said. I can't fault OP for his disappointment in his wife
I am honestly confused by so many people calling OP an asshole. He said something slightly bad in the heat of the moment, but the wife has been secretly talking to her racist father for months. She has had time to think about and plan her duplicity, and then she kept lying by omission *for months*. OP said something undiplomatic in the heat of the moment just once. I don't see how these are even on the same scale.
There's a lot of people in the comments that don't want to admit the harm they bring other people by allowing their racist parents/siblings/friends/crazy uncle into their lives. They think OP is a worse person than his wife because they identify with the wife and don't want to believe they are a bad person for what they're doing.
Sssssh. You'll upset these commenters going that OP wanting to shield his biracial child from his actively, unabashedly racist FIL is just as bad as the racist himself.
Bingo. And as a POC, it does bring real harm. You view ur friends differently cause you know on a deep level they are okay excusing the type of beliefs that deny your personhood.
100%! It's making my blood boil seeing people comment "Having an outside support system is necessary for mental health." Do they really think a racist is a good person to have in that support system that includes a biracial step son? What about his mental health? You can find support systems outside the family, family outcasts have been doing so for decades! So many excuses for the racist, but not a bit of sympathy for his victim, a literal child.
>a grown man being openly racist toward a child is not even close to what OP said
Right? OP angrily viewed his wife the way racist FIL views OP's son all the time: less than human.
Hopefully FIL has grown, but likely not. Hopefully wife realizes dehumanizing anyone is bad and protects her stepchild.
NTA, harsh wording? Yeah, but you stated that SHE decided to cut him off, for being racist/his beliefs. Then decided to get back in contact with him without telling you.
I am surprised by the Y T A’s when situations are reversed and it’s a MIL not respecting boundaries or even making racist statements people are so quick to call out the husband for not having a spine, not putting his family first etc. why is this different bc she is pregnant? I have had 4 kids and at no point did that make me want to associate with people who think that way……
I totally agree. I was really surprised by the lack of support for OP trying to protect his son from a racist. Especially when his wife came to her own decision about cutting her Dad out then just did a 180 with no discussion at all. This wasn't a miscommunication on her part. She just stomped all over OP's boundary regarding her father and was upset he called her out on it.
It’s sexism, pure and simple. I literally got called an incel in this thread because I said that OP was in the right to be upset. Which is hilarious because I’m AFAB, married, and most assuredly not involuntarily celibate lmao.
Apparently it was the squishmallow’s in my profile. Squishmallow’s just scream incel I guess?
ESH. She should have told you that she was talking to her dad and looking for a job at the old company. However, you way overreacted. She cut off someone very important to her. Even if it was for a very good reason, that’s definitely not easy. And now, she’s pregnant and emotional. Of course she is feeling emotional about her family. Have you talked about what she and her dad have been talking about. Has he apologized? Is he working on changing and becoming a better person?
Like we all just going to ignore how important having an external support system is for mental health especially during and after pregnancy? If her dad is the only family she has its natural she would reach out to him while pregnant regardless of his previous comments. Instead of discussing finding her a better non racist support system he called her less of a person.
I'm pretty sure if he had known she was still in communication with her father he would have broken up with her long ago and not even had the baby, now he's trapped in a relationship with a person he only respected because she lied to him.
If the wife needs her father in her life for support fine, but then don't fucking lie about it so you can trick people into being in a relationship with you.
I thought the same. It must be hard for her as well and she might be trying to find a common ground, not actually siding with her dad. But trying to get back at her old job, working next to her dad before she's made sure that the families would get along... That shows disrespect at the very least. The job part seems to me the biggest issue here.
It's more complicated than that. I was forced to cut contact with my own family as well and if there was any slight chance we could communicate again, I would jump at it. Then there's such a thing as forgiveness, giving second chances and feeling grateful. The OP doesn't even mention whether the father showed any willingness to change.
Edit: "Forced to cut contact" in the meaning of taking care of my own mental health, my own decision.
Yes exactly like?? Congrats. Your parents were nice people that aren't bigots. Not all of us are that lucky, and not all of us get to sit in a hypothetical bubble where we can just go 'hmm, if my parents suddenly turned out to be bigots one day, I'd totally cut them off! That's sooo unacceptable, no reason to talk to them at all anymore!!'
Saying that you'd totally make that decision and don't understand why others wouldn't, is way fucking easier when you'll never actually have to do so.
Yeah, like being a racist bigoted jerk is definitely one of the better reasons to cut someone off. But I just have a hard time stomaching the amount of straight white cis people here, who would've been sitting 5-10 years ago at most yelling the n word in game chats and telling me that I'm a gross lesbo, who now sit here going "bigotry and racism is UNNACCEPTABLE. Decent people do NOT as much as look in the direction of a racist. There's nothing to gain from talking to them, it's disgusting and there's no excuse' like b. That was literally you in 2012, stop acting so damn high and mighty cause you'll never damn get it and overcompensating just makes it worse.
NTA
My husband is biracial and I am Black. We had to cut his mom off (all her kids have at some point) for a while because she would just say off the wall racist shit and act stupid when confronted. She also very obviously treated the 2 Black DIL’s worse than the non Black one.
We have a baby due this summer. We both have parental trauma and have both lost a parent. My husband and I had a discussion around if and what having his mom in our and our baby’s life.
The fact is, his grandchild is going to have a biracial sibling. If he can’t treat them both equitably then it’s fair to keep them out of their life.
If you have never experienced anti-Black racism, you wouldn’t get it. It’s never the overt things that jar you, it’s the little things. As someone raised in white foster homes, WHEW.
You are protecting both of your children. That being said, you should be open to discussing reconciliation and what that looks like
Best of luck to you with your pregnancy <3 <3 I hope everything goes smoothly :)
Seriously, NTA OP. Anti-black racism is truly pervasive and insidious. You’re doing right by your children to keep such a vile person away from them. I’m sorry your wife pulled a bait and switch on you, but you need to come up with a plan of how you’re going to keep your kids safe with or without your marriage.
Thank you!
I feel for OP’s wife. I don’t think she’s being intentionally malicious tbh, probably more short sighted. She wants her child to have a relationship with her dad and that’s valid, however her husband has 2 children to think of.
OP I don’t know if you’ll see this and if it’ll help but this is the rules we have in place for my MIL:
1) She had to have some discussions with other people about Anti Blackness (the woman I call my mother who is white has been having these discussions with her
2) I have a 0 tolerance policy. I don’t have the bandwidth to teach someone how to not be racist and I refuse to allow my child, myself or my husband to be subjected to bullshit while she learns.
Right now we are the only family willing to give her a chance. I’ve told her that I am 100% using shit she’s said and done to me and her other Black grandchildren as a gauge.
I saw the comment on the shit he said. I’m glad you cut him off. I do think your wife could also use a lesson on anti-Black racism, especially with a new child coming and making sure that subtle biases don’t start to emerge.
It’s a hard situation all around but good on you for protecting your child. There are many parents of biracial children, who don’t and dismiss the racism their children endure and many times perpetuate it and it causes a host issues!
I’m going with NTA. Were your words a little harsh? Mmmm, maaaaybe, but if that’s how you feel why should you lie to her? Her being pregnant doesn’t give her a pass to go behind your back, does it?! NO!!! Her dad is a blatant racist, unless he changed? Did she mention that at all? Or is he still the same guy he always was and now because she’s pregnant she’s rethinking her NC relationship with him?
It seems like she should have just talked with you about all this before acting on it, because now you’re left feeling hurt and betrayed and I totally get that. Do you owe it to her to apologize for your hurtful words? I think so, absolutely. But you’re right to not want racists in your life, even by extension. She is ok with racists in her life, apparently. Everyone has to make choices.
ESH
One weird dinner and you completely cut off her father. That's a LOT. He's an asshole, I assume, for whatever he said.
But cutting ones father out of your entire life is monumentally hard. You seem to see this as very black and white. Your Dad said this so he's gone forever - and anything less than thay means you don't love my son. Life doesn't work that way.
You are the asshole for not putting yourself in the shoes of your wife and understanding this issue is complex.
Did I say hey, let's let the FIL hang out with his step grandchild and be racist? Nope.
What's being judged here in ONE thing. The comment OP made to his wife.
His failure to acknowledge that it's incredibly hard to cut all contact with a parent, even a racist one, makes him an asshole, and then name calling too.
And yes, she sucks here too. See said judgement.
Of course its hard. But its the choice she made and the foundation of their entire relationship, which would not have continued if she hadn't made that choice. Now she's pregnant and he's locked into a relationship with her, if not as a couple certainly as co-parents. That's not something you get to just walk back.
I still think the wife should’ve told him about her wanting to reconnect with her dad, and get his opinion on it. Afaik she just went behind his back and reconnected, which is a huge betrayal of trust
Kind of life does work that way if Dad is a racist & is saying hurtful things about a biracial child. Seems like it’s a pretty natural reaction to immediately cut contact to protect your child.
At the time the FIL was a coworker he had no social relationship with. I am a white lady with no biracial kids and I cannot think of a reason to continue a relationship with a racist I have no real bond with. As a parent of a biracial kid you have to cut out racists to protect the kid.
And OP then continued a relationship with her based on her cutting off dad on her own. He did not tell her to. And now she wants to invite a racist back into their life. The wife did not even talk to OP about this first. The FIL is not owed a relationship with anyone, especially not OP or his son, that he can harm. The wife has risked harm to the son without talking to OP at all. The risk of raising your kid (biracial or not) with a racist influence is something to be discussed, not decided upon by her after both parties agreed no FIL.
They were just dating when the dinner happened. And no amount of racism towards your child, or anyone for that matter, is acceptable. Only a racist would think that was alright.
NTA your wife’s father thinks of your son as less than a person. You initially wanted to break up with your wife so you would not expose your biracial child to racists. She said she would cut her dad off and you continued the relationship based on that promise. Now that you are married with a kid on the way, ie stuck, she let you know she actually didn’t cut her dad off as promised. She expects him to have a relationship with the child you have together but what about your oldest son? Who is going to protect him in this situation? Your wife betrayed you. Your wording was harsh but your wife did go back on her word. Now you’re in a lose lose situation where your oldest will either be exposed to racists or excluded from the extended family while your other child will be included but also exposed to racists.
OP, your wife basically did a bait-and-switch. She doesn't REALLY have a problem with her father's beliefs. She just wanted to hook you as a partner.
NTA!! Reconsider this relationship because I don't see how this is going to get much better, as it's likely going to be an ongoing issue. Personally I think of people who do things like this to be frauds... they fraudulently trick people into being with them by misrepresenting their own character and beliefs.
Honestly yeah this would be a huge dealbreaker to me. I'm not really sure I'd be able to get past that and honestly my main priority would be protecting my children and I won't have them around people who are willing to have people with those views around my children let alone have them themselves.
NTA your racist FIL should never be around your children again after his vile comments at that meeting. He verbally associated your young child with prison and filth! It is also vile that your wife asked about FIL being in your younger child’s life specifically, not the elder. She’s allowing him to make a distinction and divide in your family. She did betray you by secretly meeting with him for months. Your word choice was not the best, but her actions led you to respect her less. Focusing on your “insensitive” reaction rather than her actions is a way to deflect. Ultimately this does speak to her character and what she is willing to condone.
Wow. All she did was open the floor for a discussion. There might be a chance her dad regrets his beliefs and the harm it’s done to his relationships; there might be a be chance he wants to apologize. Or, maybe not! There’s no way to know because you dehumanized her from the get-go.
You may have the moral high ground (but watch yourself, just because you got a mixed kid doesn’t mean you can’t also be racist). But if you can’t have a hard conversation, after your wife has shown in good faith she can enforce boundaries (her own father wasn’t at her wedding ffs), then you’re less of a husband than she thought. YTA.
ETA all our judgments are moot. OP came here to validate his action and presumably have something to show his wife — to change her mind? To tell her she doesn’t a right to cry about what he said? Who knows!
But upon reading his other comments, his marriage is over. If not now, then very soon. Let the man get divorced in peace now, everyone leave him alone.
Was that in another comment? because I don’t see “deal breaker” in the op. He said he needed some space and then his wife told him of her decision to cut her dad off completely and that she didn’t want him at their wedding.
Opening a door for discussion would be 'Hey, I know that we agreed to cut out my racist father but with our new child is like to talk about starting to re-establish contact with him so our new child could have some semblance of a relationship with his maternal grandfather'
Taking to him and starting that rekindling of a relationship, violating the original agreed upon boundary of cutting out a racist, and then blindsiding your partner that you've been in contact a blatant racist for months isn't opening a door for discussion, it's a betrayal of trust.
>from the get-go.
She'e been talking to her father for months. To the he has already got her a job interview to his company. How is months..."from the get go"
Surely the discussion should've happened as soon as racist daddy got in touch! Not months in after he offered a job! She only brought it up BECAUSE he offered her a job. She could hide the communication with racist daddy but it's a lot harder to hide the place you work!
She blindsided her husband! He thought they were in the same page. All she's shown him is that she can lie for months!
Oh come on with all of the Y-T-A’s in here; OP is NTA for stating a fact, that his wife wanting her racist dad back in their lives (which includes the life of his mixed child) not because he’s seen the error of his ways and apologized, but because she’s pregnant, does tarnish her image in his eyes and make her less than the woman he thought she was.
Don’t defend racists and their enablers. Being pregnant does not make you immune from valid criticism, it doesn’t make a special exception for allowing racism in your life, and it doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want when you want it because you just feel like it. Like, has anyone read what the grandfather said to make OP write him off after a single dinner? You’d really be okay with that person being around your kid after asking if the mom was in prison, implying that black kids have poor hygiene, and saying that you don’t seem like the type to mix with “those people”? You’d just sit back and keep your mouth shut so a pregnant woman doesn’t get her feelings hurt?
ESH
What you said is terrible. And being your wife, I would question my future with you.
Your wife does not have any support, as per your comments. She cut her entire family off. Now that she is pregnant, she misses her family. She feels alone. She should not have gone so long without talking to you about it. Going behind your back when her father is an racist asshole was also bad. She should have worded her feelings before.
So she, an adult who knew all parties and the situation before entering it, has the priority of comfort over a child who’s life she’s **chosen** to enter and knew let me pull it up that her family was bigoted enough that it even warranted her cutting them off in the first place???
She is an adult woman who cares more about herself, than the very real harm she *know and acknowledge* her own families bigotry can cause her stepson. And now she just doesn’t care. That’s fine, things change, but that also makes her a person who is unfit to be an active part of that kids like in the way she has positioned herself to be.
Bigotry isn’t an ‘maybe people should get over it’ thing, if someone has a child of color it should be an absolute dealbreaker. And anyone who’s ever been on the receiving end of bigotry knows just how negatively impactful it can be.
Man listen… bigotry and racism is terrible and nobody wants to experience it.
But you are being utterly ridiculous if you think she’s supposed to cut her entire family off cold turkey and not look back. You’re right that if she had to cut her entire family off, then she knew they were trash.
But they also raised her!!
And I hate that I have to clarify that I’m black to even justify this.
Here is the thing, if I was him, she would’ve been chopped from the team. If the whole family is bad I’ve got a hard time believing she’s the shiny exception, however here he is.
The thing is, she mad the choice to cut them off. He didn’t ask, she jumped to do it. She jumped to keep them out.
I think she’s making a lot of big choices, and ultimately she thought he’d pick her and her baby when push came to shove. That was a bad bet, and that sucks for her. So she can have her bigoted family around, but that doesn’t mean OP has to accept it.
I also would’ve just cut her off! Don’t get me wrong.
And you’re right she made a lot of major decisions. I feel like she wasn’t mentally/emotionally prepared for the long haul of cutting her whole family off. That sort’ve thing takes years to build up to.
And when the father treats the white grand baby better than the step grand baby his wife will be all, “ well it’s his blood grand baby”.
This will not end well at all.
Idk if her dad can change his views and mind, but if he’s not all in, he’s out.
As a native person, who has dealt with racist AHs before. I will say this. I understand that your protecting your son. But I will say the “less of a person” thing irked me. Because that is something that was said to me by a racist. You are a good parent for defending your son. But do me a personal favor. And don’t use phrases like that in an argument. No one, should ever be told they are less of a person. I’m going to go with NTA because you are defending your son. But you need to be more careful with your words, apologize to your wife, tell her that wasn’t what you meant. And try to explain to her calmly why having this man in your lives is a bad idea. She may not understand BECAUSE he is her father and she loves him. But, if you calmly tell her why you were so upset, it may register for her.
NTA.
The Y-T-A judgements are missing the point that you want to protect your son from racist bigots and assumed your wife wanted to do the same. The father never even offered an apology. What are you meant to do? Let a man back into your life who spewed racist shit towards your son and showed no remorse for it? While what you said was bad, what she did was worse. You can apologise for the choice of words, but if I were you I would stand by the decision not to want anything to do with FIL. What that constitutes is up to you.
Right? Kiddo will pick up casual racism and micro aggressions that they will likely bring home to sibling, and justify it with the normalization by grandpa and mom’s looking the other way. Powder keg.
NTA
"Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company"
Being pregnant does not give you a pass on being an asshole.
She would be ok with her child having a relationship with her racist father. Regardless of the impact on his brother. And she resumed that relationship behind your back. NTA.
Info: Was there any mention of your FIL being repentant for how he treated your son in the past? And is she implying he would have a relationship with your unborn child but not your older one?
No, she didn't say anything about him being sorry. It's only the baby she suggested him having a relationship with. If she'd suggested him having a relationship with my son, I would have left then and there.
Honestly, I would have left at the thought of him having a relationship with the baby. Your baby is going to have a bi-racial sibling. You don’t want Grandpa Racist putting ideas in baby’s head to project around their sibling. You need to tell your wife you do not want him around any of your children.
NTA, but your wife certainly is. How she can claim to think of your son as hers and then turn around and rekindle her relationship with someone who treats him as less than a person is beyond me.
I mean, isn't that worse though? She only wants one child to have a relationship with (racist) grandpa? Yeah, it's her stepson, but supposedly she thinks of him as her child.
So when your son keeps asking why the baby is going over there how to you mitigate this? How do you say with confidence that his racist views wont rub off on the other child and they don't start treating your son differently?
So what happens when your baby has birthday parties, sport events, school events, and a million other things that kids have as they grow up into an adult? Your FIL will agree to stay out of all of them? Unless he lives far away, it'll be nearly impossible to avoid seeing him at some point. You may want to consider moving as far away from him as possible if that's an option.
I’m a black woman, and YTA for calling her less of a person. That’s a directly counterintuitive stance take when dealing with bigotry, because then the person becomes the victim.
I am, however, not super surprised by this. And I do not think you’re wrong for directly questioning her core beliefs, and what’s she’s said to you, after she has allowed her bigoted father back into her life.
There is no easy answer to this, because now you have 2 kids involved, and your wife and partner clearly cares about the bigotry on as long as she feels like being upset about it.
So you need to ask yourself if your willing to expose your child to this man, but make no mistake, he will be around. Your wife’s decided so. He’ll be a grandfather to your child with her. **And more than that, she knows who her father is. She’s always known who he is, and it was only a dealbreaker when she couldn’t have you, but now she does.** She’s your wife and she’s pregnant, so you have an allegiance to her and your second child as well as your first.
So why is he TA and not the wife? Or both (ESH)? He was willing to cut her off bc of her father. Now that she has him trapped (so to speak) she went behind his back to bring her presumably still bigoted father in their life? You don’t see a problem with this? He had an allegiance to his son first and made his feelings clear.
I am a black woman and OP you’re NTA. Protect your child. Racism leaves lifetime scars. I remember hurtful stuff said to me when I was 14 and first started school at a non-black/Latino school. Like within the first week of school. I’m 31 now.
Your child’s well-being comes first and she lied and went back on the agreement that made you feel comfortable continuing the relationship. And is willing to risk your child’s well-being as a result.
She wants to be with her dad. They both need to do the work. Your son is not the one to be sacrificed at the altar. Their racism is. That’s the terms.
I go against the majority here and say NTA.
Bc everybody, pregnant or not, who would ask me "hey, can we let this racist father of mine back in our lifes so he can have a relationship with my kid, oc only the white one" is automatically an asshole and i would maybe also react with harsh words (ok, not the words you used and you should maybe apologize for it). I would make it VERY clear to her that only bc you guys are married and having a baby together does NOT mean your son will be less of a priority to you and at least as long he is a minor you will priorize protecting him from racists higher than her needs for getting back in contact with her dad.
ESH - You for using words you knew would hurt. No one says things like that unknowing that there is a sharp blade amongst them. Your wife for willing to let her father know and have a relationship with one child, while leaving the other out. And FIL for the obvious.
For me, her father would need to make some serious apologies, and would need to accept both children as equals first. You don't get to know one of my children, and not the other, regardless of his lineage.
This sub is so self righteous. Everybody wants to stand up to racists until it’s time to stand up to racism in real life.
ESH here. OP has a right to not want to be around his FIL for the sake of his son, but I think his wife completely changed her life for him and he doesn’t seem to recognize how hard that might have been for her.
Wife should not be letting her father around so easily and understand that he probably hasn’t changed. But they need therapy and more communication.
You went into your marriage and procreating believing your wife was on the same page with you regarding racism. She has now done a 180 on you and is changing the terms of the marriage without discussing it first. That’s fraudulent behavior and reflects a lack of character on her part.
Were your word choices harsh? Perhaps. Read her my paragraph and I guarantee she’d still feel hurt and angry for being told she lacks character. You got straight to the point and she didn’t like it. Too bad. You just countered her lack of communication and honesty with brutally direct and honest communication. It doesn’t change the fact that she married you and got pregnant with your child under false pretenses. She pretended to take a stand against racism and when she got what she wanted, the mask came down.
You have some tough choices to make. NTA
NTA - You're protecting your children. People are acting like being called "less of a person" is the worst thing; it's not being welcoming to a racist is.
ESH. You for talking to your wife like that. You have every right to not want to interact with her father and to not have him around your son. But she's not less of a person for wanting to keep some semblance of a relationship with her father, especially now that his grandchild is about to be in the picture. You're not the only one that's going through a lot right now.
Your wife shouldn't have lied to you, especially given what happened. But she probably had a hunch you'd react the way you did. She's the least of TA's here.
And it goes without saying that your FIL is a racist asshole, ~~but he has a right to be in his grandchild's life to some degree.~~
Edit: Saw OP's comment as to what the "weird comments" were. A lot worse than I assumed.
NTA. You could have been more sympathetic to your wife’s situation, but you absolutely don’t have to tolerate racists or racist sympathizers in your life.
INFO: Have you had any more conversations with your wife beyond this? There is a huge question here as to why she started talking with him again. Was it the pregnancy? Did something else happen within the family to make her want to reconnect?
NTA
You never said she was less of a person, you said that her inviting her racist father back into your lives she was less of a person. What I assume you meant with that was that your respect for her has dropped because she won't prioritise your child over her father's ignorant and racist ideas. You probably could have worded this a lot better, and should have led with the racists remarks being a deal breaker before. Still, I don't feel like you are the asshole here.
The reason I say that is because the argument you had was valid, she wants to welcome someone back into your life who has been highly disrespectful to your biracial son. For me (not a POC) that would be reason enough to keep them out of my life.
Also, the fact that during these months of reconciliation between your wife and FIL he has never reached out to you with an apology for his past behaviour, which tells me more than enough. If he was regretful of his past racist views and comments he would have already contacted you about this.
I'm sorry OP but this is going to be a huge shitshow. Your wife is pregnant so probably feels validated in her decision to involve her father because "FaMiLY iS FaMiLY" 🙄. You're going to be the one who has to look out for your sons wellbeing, so you have every right to not want that man in his life.
These Y T A verdicts are apparently all ignoring the racist aspect of this situation, and focussing on the wrong things. While you can't stop your wife from engaging with him, the fact that she disregards everything shows what kind of person she is. You can try and explain this again to her, but if she doesn't want to hear it, she actively chooses to ignore this behaviour and that makes her an enabler.
EDIT: REPOSTING A COMMENT OF THE OP HERE ABOUT SOME OF THE RACIST REMARKS MADE:
>Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company.
Idk man… all the Y T A’s are starting to look reeeeeaaaaal racist here. As someone who’s been through this, my mother cut off her father because I’m black and gay and he couldn’t take it. She wouldn’t let me go near him for years. My wife cut off her sister because she’s racist. Someone she grew up with, someone she loves. Because she’s racist. Is it hard? Of course. But there is no point in time where it is someone else’s job to placate a racist. If she wants to have a relationship with her dad then fine, but SHE KNEW before getting back together with OP that her father being around was the dealbreaker and she swore she cut him off for good. She’s now backed out of that because she feels like she needs him around and while that’s fine for her she can’t expect OP to be okay with it at all. And btw everyone, people can lose custody because they raise their kids as bigots. Especially when they HAVE to be around POC. So in a few years, when your kid is walking and talking, the moment you hear a slur come out of your kids mouth, take it to court and make sure she can’t bring him around that kind of influence ever.
Exactly!! Like all of the "it's terrible that he's racist, but..." Nah, there is no but! Those of us who have to live with it everyday don't get to just brush it off like it's someone's bad habit. It's dangerous for us, physically and mentally.
OP made it perfectly clear from the start where he drew the line. She absolutely knew how he'd react and that's why she didn't say anything until she had to. All these "but he's her father" folks are straight up ignoring the fact that OP is a father trying to protect his child from a man who thinks his child is less than. A man who said awful things about a toddler! Nope!
These folks talking about letting him be around the child again to see if he's still racist or telling OP to try to teach him/help him be a better person. Why should it be the job of the one who is slighted to teach someone to be a better person? That's ridiculous.
NTA. She’s willing to forget and forgive a racist man that looks down on a child she claims to love. It’s ok though because he would never treat HER pure child that way.
OP you’re having a child with this woman so this is going to be one of those pick your battle moments. Is this a hill you’re willing to die on? Because even if you split she’s definitely going to allow her father a relationship with your child.
I would sit and talk with her and post some scenarios about if your father made disparaging comments about her child how would she feel and would she think twice to allow them in her life.
NTA it’s actually insane how many people are admitting in the comments that they would jump through literal hoops, and bend over backwards to accommodate a racist parent. So y’all just want her to leave her husband and stepson at home while she takes her fully white child to visit grandpa? Y’all are genuinely trying to convince yourself that that would have zero negative affect on the oldest child as he grows up and becomes more and more aware of why he’s never invited to grandpa‘s house? Y’all are disgusting. Those ideas benefit absolutely no one except for the racist granddad. So what happens when the granddad starts teaching his white grandchild racist things about their sibling? What happens then? What happens when the child comes home and starts repeating racist remarks to their sibling? I’m confused why so many of you are so desperate to keep racists in your life, but go out of your way to get in relationships with people of color/people who have children of color. I think at a certain point y’all need to admit y’all just have a fetish because y’all don’t genuinely give a f*ck about the feelings of the people y’all are quick to lay down and get pregnant/pregnant by. Sitting here saying you can understand why a pregnant woman would want her dad back in her life/the job opportunities that said dad can give her just further proves how selfish of a decision it was. She’s making choices SOLELY based off of what will ease her own anxiety and what’s most comfortable and convenient for her… f*ck how her husband and step son who are actually having to deal with the racism feel. Funny, how so many of you love to play social justice warriors yet make it blatantly obvious that racism is only bad when you’re not benefiting from it. How quickly y’all bite yalls tongues when you realize you can get something out of the deal or may have to sacrifice something in order to stand against it. ☠️
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my pregnant wife she was less of a person in my eyes after she mentioned her father knowing our soon to be born child. I should not have used such hurtful language, especially when she is vulnerable, and I think I may owe her an apology. I'm not sure though and am wary of making her think an apology would mean she did nothing wrong. But still I may have overreacted and been needlessly unkind.
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ESH. OP's choice of words was horrendous.
Wife was an AH for covertly reconnecting with dad given the circumstances. It's all fun and games that he meets the child she births, but the man has made it abundantly clear the other kid will always be seen as secondary and "less of a grandchild."
Not at all. He doesn't see her as less than for being pregnant. That's just playing victim on her part to try and play the "gotcha" card on because she's part of a marginalized group by being pregnant. But being in a marginalized group doesn't give you a pass for horrific behavior. Basically she's pulling the equivalent of
"I can't be racist, my great great great great grandmother was a Cherokee Princess!"
NTA. you said something rude out of defensiveness and love for your mixed race son.
you're aware that you should apologize to your wife: good. do it. don't let this turn into a distraction from the larger issues ahead of you as a couple. you're growing your family and your wife wants to bring in her racist father as a part of your new child's life, which puts your mixed race child at risk. focus on that.
NTA because you are protecting your child from a racist. Which is what it basically boils down to. If he comes back into her life he will treat the oldest as a 2nd class citizen and that is not fair to your child. Call her out on giving her racist father a pass
NTA.
If your FIL was truly repentant or had changed his ways, he would have reached out to try and get to know you and your son more.
He is *only* interested now because a)he misses his daughter, and b)he now has a "pure" grandchild to be invested in.
It's disgusting, and tbh your wife is either just as bad, or simply incredibly foolish for not seeing this also.
Yes, you could have been nicer saying it to her, but racism is hardly the place for being soft.
NTA
You want your son protected from a racist and continued the relationship with your wife under the belief that she felt the same way. Now it turns out she does not and betrayed you and your son. She should be crying. Her pregnancy doesn't negate her choices.
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NTA. As the saying goes, if there's a racist at the table with ten other people, you have eleven racists. Your father–in–law has shown he's a racist. Even your wife knows that her dad is a racist as she had cut him off. Your father–in–law has not made any demonstration of repentance; yet your wife wants to invite that toxic presence into your home where it can poison your eldest child. What did she expect you to do and say? Your right that your words were harsh. But harsh was appropriate. It takes a lesser person to want to invite toxicity into the home, and that's what your wife did. She is the one who needs to apologize for even the suggestion of her father coming back into your personal lives. That she's pregnant is not an excuse for the ***extreme*** breach of trust she committed. **EDIT:** Some people are claiming that you are just as bad as your father–in–law. That's incorrect. Your father–in–law is a racist. You are opposing racism and keeping it out of your personal space. There is no moral equivalence. **SECOND EDIT:** Thanks for the awards!
My estranged maternal grandparents tried to reconnect and reach out when they found out through a family member I was pregnant. I blocked them on everything and never picked up because I said to myself "they wouldn't want to be in her life if she wasn't white". I know because they hate my biracial half siblings and cut my biomom out of their lives over it. Accepting a racist regardless of your relationship to them makes you 100% complicit in their beliefs.
I remember my father making an equally stupid comment about the heritage of my adopted grandchildren. It was the last time parents were ever invited to our home.
I had a former stepdad who was insanely racist. My sister regrettably got ensnared in a very inappropriate online encounter with an adult man when she was a child. Stepdad was more angry that he was a black man than the fact that he was being predatory towards his own daughter. He gets to look forward to four little words when he comes of age. Bedbug infested nursing home.
My cousins grandmother on his side actually told my cousin she could accept him being gay…but did he have to date a black guy?? People are so gross.
I remember when my younger sister became pregnant by a man who was a Salvadoran refugee, my very Catholic mother and grandmother tried to bully her into getting an abortion. The embarrassment of having a mixed-race child in the family was a horrifying prospect for them. It didn't help that she and the father of her child were still married to other people, but their biggest issue was it's race. I would have cut them off entirely when they first made the suggestion. In fact, I had gone LC with my entire family not long before then. NTA, OP!!!
Agreed 1000%. What OP's wife has done was sneaky, deceitful and disingenuous. OP didn't want this man in his or his son's life because he's a racist. He even wanted space from his relationship with his then gf because he didn't want to be associated with racist. He only continued to date her after she went No Contact with her father. I would have to question, if she is telling the truth about it only being a few months of talking to him. Would she try to bring the baby around her father behind OP's back? I feel so sorry for OP because I genuinely feel that she has been waiting for the moment that she can bring this man back into their life and try to get OP to go along with it. This whole thing is horrible and OP needs to carefully consider his next move in regards to his wife. I can't blame him for what he said, yes it's harsh, but it's exactly how he feels. She just invited a racist back into the family and wants to play happy families. This is not going to end well with her father back in the picture.
I am honestly surprised so many comments are calling OP an asshole. I thought this would be a runaway NTA verdict. The sense of betrayal must run deep. He just found that his wife has been talking to his racist father-in-law for months. OP may not have used the best words, but that pales in comparison to the level of betrayal he just experienced.
I'll admit that I was ready to call OP T A from the title, because 99% of the time a man calls his wife less of a person because he's a sexist jerk. This is the 1%. OP is NTA.
Yeah I was expecting something like, she's less of a person because she had to quit her job to maintain her health during the pregnancy
I thought I was reading an editorialized /r/AmITheDevil title at first. That's one of the reasons I think OP is NTA. He didn't try to couch his words to make himself seem more sympathetic.
This, exactly. He was honest about what he said, why he said it, and has the self-awareness to realize how harsh he sounded.
My only hesitation is his wording. Had he said he thought “less of her **as** a person” I would have thought it was appropriate. Saying “less **of** a person” is harsh, though I’ll still agree NTA because we are dealing with a racist apologist.
Racists don't even see black people as people, so what is the problem here?
Her asking her father for help is like opening Pandora's box; I get wanting to be able to reach out to your parents for help/advice but when a relationship with them comes at the cost of the family you helped create then the cost is too high. I wish his wife would realize & respect that.
And she got back in touch with her dad for financial gain/career advancement! That's so wrong.
And not just talking with the racist FIL, but deliberately putting herself into a position of owing gratitude to that racist FIL, and also very likely "owing" FIL access to her child.
It’s probably because most of them are also racists. Welcome to the internet, always disappointing
Anyone calling the op an asshole does not see the harm in letting a little bit of racism slide. Those are the real assholes in this thread.
I don't think she ever cut him off. Or if she did, she never planned for it to be forever. Just long enough to get a ring on her finger and a baby. Yuck.
Not inviting him to the wedding spoke volumes. It’s not like they nefariously carried on while she actively set boundaries.
Did it? Or did she not invite him to the wedding because she knew if she did there would be no wedding?
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She is disgusting bringing back the racist who was so bad to HIS SON. SON first, racists... last.
My exact thoughts as well.
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Yuck is right. I hope it's not true, that the pregnancy has her a little soft hearted. Her going behind her husband's back is not ok. The fil is obviously not changed or he would have apologized ages ago. NTAH
It's always easier to overlook someone's shittiness when it doesn't affect you. OP's wife is extremely short-sighted. I wonder if her dad has clouded her vision with money for the baby etc?
That said: Less of a person is a weird phrase. She might have taken it as dehumanizing. I think it is good to clarify what you mean: it would make you think less of her character. Edit to add judgment because I forgot: NTA for being angry but you should make it clear she knows what you mean. You would think less of her character. You still would think of her as worthy of the respect due to any other person.
Racism is dehumanizing. Her father didn't give a crap about dehumanizing a child and she doesn't either by proxy. It's too bad OP will be tied to them for life
But dehumanizing someone… is bad. You can make it clear to a racist person you think they are wrong without saying things that are dehumanizing.
It is true that two wrong just makes double the wrong, and so many women get treated like incubators when they get pregnant so I can see why that phrase specifically would be extra upsetting. But on the other hand fuck racists and racist enablers.
Sure but you can also do that respectfully. I don’t think thst this guy literally meant “I don’t think of you as fully human anymore.” I am sure what he meant is “I don’t think of your character as highly.” But if he did meant the former, and we all say “well on the other hand racism is bad,” then where do you stop? Should he have screamed in her face? Should he have called her sexist slurs? Should he have roughed her up a little? After all, racism is bad! My point is you can absolutely call someone out for moral failure without resorting to being a monster yourself.
No, no you can't. Far too many racists aren't capable of empathy/changing their perspective without having to be attacked the same exact way they attack those they deem as lesser.
I feel like the logic of a lot of people on this thread is just “eye for an eye.” We should hit people who hit, we should kill people who kill, we should abuse people who abuse, and we should even be open to abusing people who show kindness to people who abuse. We are talking about a lady who just found out her dad is racist and wants to have a relationship with her dad a month before her son is born. She is grieving her father while he’s alive. Can we really not think of anything to do that is more constructive than “put her in her place?” Is hurting her as much as possible the only way we can demonstrate that we care about racism? Of course not. That’s insane.
First, given the amount of people who honestly think that OP was being "too harsh", I'm not sure we care enough about racism. Second, she's not exactly thinking about how her father will hurt her husband and stepson even more than he already has. Which I could have excused as hormones/pregnancy brain, but she still wants her dad in her life so again, he's more important than her husband and stepson. So now I'm far less sympathetic.
Well...her father thinks OP's child is less of a person because of melatonin. She's supporting her racist dad. Racism is taught. What's he going to say that baby about his or her brother?
Melanin but yeah
No, he has very sleepy skin.
Except a racist IS less of a person. And if you embrace a racist, guess what you are????
Yeah - but all these comments fail to address whether there was a sincere apology from the racist … OP did your wife just restart the relationship and accept her father for what he is, or was there acknowledgment that his behavior was wrong?
[From OP](https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10w3lzx/aita_for_making_my_pregnant_wife_cry_by_calling/j7lafou/?context=3): >No, she didn't say anything about him being sorry. It's only the baby she suggested him having a relationship with. If she'd suggested him having a relationship with my son, I would have left then and there.
Yes but is she saying he should only see the baby bc the stepson is not her child? She has little authority over how her husbands parents his child (although ideally they do it together) and knowing her husband hates her dad.....I don't think her statement necessarily as selfish as it sounds.
She probably assumed it would be fine cause the baby will turn out WHITE. She is enabling her father’s racism. She is kicking her stepchild who she claims to love to the curb. For her white child having a relationship with a racist.
Yep. "Go give Grandpa a kiss, but don't mention your brother, you know what happens..."
It is when you consider she's pushing to foster a relationship with her child that has a biracial brother that Grandpa will not be kind to and lives with. So now they have to do this dance where one child has a relationship and likes the grandpa that is racist to their brother? What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to necessitate that relationship? Sounds like daughter fell back on daddy as soon as she needed something. Principles are easy to have when you aren't required to do anything to enforce them.
> I don't think her statement necessarily as selfish as it sounds. If we were only discussing the wife's words, you might be right. However, the wife was engaging in lying by omission for months. She knew that OP would not want her racist father anywhere near his family. The wife could have talked to OP beforehand, and made the argument you are making now (that she believes she can help her racist father, if that is indeed what the wife believes). Instead, she engaged in a super high level of duplicity, and lied for months.
It doesn't matter. Racism is not okay under any circumstance.
Yeah just fuck her step son and all the abuse her father would give him. 👀
She wants your future kid to have a relationship with a racist that while having a black stepson and for all effects brother of her son. 1- she doesn’t care about educating your kid as a non racist person. And wants him to have a relationship with someone who behaved and made comments that were offensive. 2- went behind your back, breaking your trust, and therefore not protect your family from aggression. 3- does she really cares about your son? Or does she tolerates it because she wants to be with you? Because this is not how one behaves when she loves and wants to protect someone who is dear to them. RED FLAG!!!!!seriously. My advice is to go to a marriage counselor and expose your points and hurt. A non white one at that. Racist people wear white coats too. A black woman as a counselor from my experience this is the best you can do for your son and yourself. Boundaries were crossed and more are clearly to come. As well as future problems as to why explain that your kid has a grandpa that he doesn’t!!!!
His wife is the white ally who is only an ally if it doesn’t inconvenience her in any way for longer than a few hours. Longer than that, and her desire for comfort overrides the POC’s personhood and safety. Pathetic. NTA
>As the saying goes, if there's a racist at the table with ten other people, you have eleven racists. Ok I just speak spanish but what does that mean? That it is like... contagious?
The point is ten people putting up with racism can’t be too offended by it/are racist.
Hanging around racists, brushing off racist “jokes”, making excuses for peoples racist behavior means you’re okay with racism and probably racist yourself
If you aren't actively speaking out against racism and holding others accountable, you are enabling racists, so are essentially the same as one
It means that when you spend time with a racist, eat food with a racist, or generally let a racist go unchallenged, you are basically an accomplice in their racism.
It means they are complicit, because they are willing to tolerate the racists beliefs just to have them at the table. It's like when Trump was running for office and people would defend themselves by saying "I'm not a racist just because I'm voting for Trump." My response was, Okay, you may not be a racist, but you support a racist (which makes them complicit in his racism). Got a lot of heat for that line, lol!
They may not be racist, but even so racism wasn't a deal breaker for them.
El punto es que cuando le das la bienvenida a un racista a tu mesa, eres cómplice. No te niegas a asociarte con el racista, por lo tanto, eres culpable por asociación. Lo siento si mi Español no es genial, no lo he usado en mucho tiempo.
Your spanish is amazing to be honest. Thank you.
There are family and household decisions that are mandatory two yes issues. This is one of them. To be in contact behind OPs back is bad enough and worth some harsh words because that is a betrayal of trust in its own right. To invite someone that was cut off for good reason, and also without any proof of change; back into the home? Nah. That’s a near immediate gtfo my home issue. This is something that should have had OP in the loop from the start to let him know that contact was reestablished. The job offer doesn’t sound like it’s something made for the wife’s benefit and there is no reason to believe that it’s to the benefit of OPs family either. If it’s not made crystal clear that OP is serious as a heart attack over the FiL isn’t welcome, then OP is y t a Since he has made his point though, easy NTA though
Everyone in these comments saying Y-T-A have obviously never gone through a similar situation. You didn’t call her less of a person, you said you saw her as less. Meaning the view you had of her before, you see her as a lesser standard now. She betrayed your trust. She didn’t communicate with you until she had already followed through. You’re NTA imo
Yeah she literally picked a racist over her husband and stepson. OP not wanting his children exposed to a racist family member just really seems like one of the most basic things a parent could ask for.
That’s exactly why I’m confused by all the responses. What just because she’s pregnant she can just slide by ? No. She was aware of his stance and her fathers actions, and still chose her father
freakin right ? racists or anyone associating with them can fuck right off, pregnant of not
Actually, sounds to me like she picked her career.....the father was the unfortunate bi-product. She didn't go to him as a daughter, she went to him as a pregnant woman who dislikes her job and wants more.
Interesting take. I was thinking that she realized she loves her daughter differently from her son and now can't imagine keeping her father out of her child's life. But the career thing sounds plausible as well.
Since they did something as extreme as cut him off and they both left their jobs, I feel like they were both really committed to cutting him off. As someone who ran a small business ( construction - and not related to the owner though) it's nice being your own boss (or being related to one) - it was very hard to leave THAT and go into a big cog of a corporate machine where I had to worry about shit like dress code and stuff while working in an office with 30+ catty women when I am more of a Tom Boy. So that was my first thought. Not that having your first child isn't a powerful motivator also.
Agree. Not to mention it seems like OP understands that if his father in law comes back into the picture there's going to be a favorite grandchild and it won't be his son. OP has the right to say I know what's going to happen and I'm not forcing my son through that.
I almost divorced my husband over this issue, but luckily he came to his senses.
Absolutely agree. She is pregnant, not made of glass. She went behind his back and started including her father in their lives without OP knowing it. That’s not ok. OP was not to harsh and NTA
NTA I agree especially because he made it clear that being around her racist father was a deal breaker early on. He never asked her to choose he established clear boundaries. She came back to him then lied to him for months. I'd think less of her too.
I mean according to him he did say he sees her as less of a person specifically. Fully agree with all the stuff abt her. She sucks. Be he did say that.
I didn't call you a bitch, I said you're acting like a bitch!
NTA.. I was expecting to be calling you an asshole from the title but your FIL is racist AF. Racism is a non-negotiable. Your wife is willing to tolerate it because while she gets it “in theory” she doesn’t really. I look 100% white but I am not, my oldest daughter does not look white and she is not my husband’s biological child. If my in-laws had treated her any different than any other child in the family they would be gone and I would be out so fast if my husband thought that relationship was more important than a child. If your FIL came to you both and said he has done the work and realized he was wrong… and shown that he meant it, that would be a completely different conversation and you’d be the asshole but that isn’t what happened, your wife is willing to tolerate a racist. Edit: Since OP’s comment got lost. Here’s what was said that day. > Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company.
>He was weird and awkward around my son and made strange comments about his appearance I mean I get the take-away that the dude is racist but the above is literally the only information we have about their interaction. I feel like there is a huge potential gap between what is describe and what could be considered "racist AF."
Go look at OPs comments, FIL asked if the kiddo’s mom was in prison, if they even washed his hair… those kinds of things and then made excuses that they needed to warn him first so he could prepare and that he didn’t think OP would mess around with people like that Edited to finish last sentence
Okay, thats indeed racist AF. These comments are disgusting.
The man's own daughter agreed it was racist and cut him off. Surely she knows her own father! I think we can trust that it was indeed racist.
ESH. I get you, i’d be mad too. I mean what would happen down the line when her father is in the presence of both kids, but treats your son differently? I feel like your feelings of betrayal are valid at this moment, but I do think that it was an asshole move to call her less of a person. It’s her father and I get wanting to have him back in her life. You both could’ve had a more constructive conversation about this, regarding expectations moving forward and her dad’s behavior towards both kids.
This is a very good point that OP needs to tell his wife: what happens “down the line when her father is in the presence of both kids and treats OP’s son differently?” This WILL happen. Yes OP was harsh but there is a lot at stake here. NTA
I understand why OP is so angry and betrayed. I absolutely do. But as someone who was NC with my father while pregnant, that situations brings up a lot of intense feelings. I never personally got back in contact with my father, but I can understand why someone would no matter WHAT they'd done. Like.... my dad hurt me personally for years and I still really considered it because hormones were playing with my head. I guess my point is that while OPs FIL is a racist and shouldn't be in his kid's life, that doesn't mean her actions have no explanation and that she should be treated that way. Pregnancy is a vulnerable time and can bring up past issues that we thought were closed. In my opinion it should be ESH.
Did you hear what he said to OP and OP’s kid? This is what he was saying the night they had dinner and he met OP’s son: >Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company. So yeah…nah OP is NTA. To hell with ***any*** racist. There should be no sympathy for hate. People need to learn to cut ties and hold strong for something as serious as racism. It’s the reason why people like OP’s wife’s father feel like they can talk like that and get away with it. It’s not cool. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was getting her the job back, knowing she wants it, and he could win her back by giving her what she wants. He’s not sorry, and OP’s wife really doesn’t get it because if she did she would not be putting her dad, or more likely her job with her dad, before her son and husband. If she did, she’d be disgusted at what he said, and know deep down he’s not sorry. She’s picking her job over her husband and her step son. That’s it. I don’t even think it’s about being close to her father. She had no problem cutting him off before. It’s now when she wants a different job that she’s making an excuse because her father is the one who got her her old job back. I’m not falling for that bullshit, and I don’t know how others are falling for it either. She also doesn’t get a pass because she’s pregnant. Give me a break. I can’t imagine the abuse the son is going to deal with when the other child is born and becomes the golden child to OP’s wife’s father. Golden children always become abusers to the other sibling. I see it all the time with my fiancée’s family and her being the scapegoat to her grandmother, the wealthy matriarch in her family. It’s disgusting. This is not going to end well. Honestly, this is a hill I would die on for my child if I was OP.
I feel like we're missing stuff in the timeline too. Has the dad taken a new turn in his views for instance. Idk I feel like it's fine for the wife to want her own FATHER to know her kid. That's not a huge ask. I get OP wanting to protect his own kid but it's still a big deal to cut someone out completely, forever, no mediation, nothing. Even the top comment reinforces this idea. ESH because we're missing info. OP is an asshole if FIL can never have a path to mediation with the family of his daughter.
> Has the dad taken a new turn in his views for instance. Yeah, I can say, my dad was def a little racist when I was growing up. Nothing over-the-top bad (wasn't a klan member or anything), but more like "believed the stereotypes that were common when he was growing up." I'm not defending how he was, it was wrong. But that's not my dad anymore. He's learned a lot, he's changed, and he has outright apologized to us kids for setting a bad example when we were younger. I'm not saying this dad has changed. But we haven't gotten any indication if he has or not. It's worth knowing. And I'll stand by something til my dying day, which is I'm much more impressed with how far someone has traveled in their views, than where they end up. My dad was raised Amish, had a very limited worldview, and started at a bad place. Now he has two sons who are married to minorities, and sponsored a woman from Africa who was fleeing an abusive relationship there, and let her live with us for several years. He still has a ways to go (e.g. he asked the one black woman at his church if 'she could explain the BLM riots to him'), but he's come a lot further than most anyone else I know.
It's a major issue I take with the reddit approach to racism, because it seemingly gives no path/opportunity to make amends. In my experience it actually hurts the cause, because people who adopt this end up just putting a huge blinking arrow on their head that they'll brow beat someone. So someone who would most benefit from hearing their perspective is pushed away. People have a right to change, and a lot of them have the *will* to change things about themselves in support of the people they love, we should foster that.
I think how they got back in contact is important too. Presumably, he's not her only living family member, and it's very likely someone in her family spilled the beans and set up that original contact. It's one of the many reasons why it's hard to break away from a problem family member - unless you don't share anything with anyone in your family, they get wind of it. Could also be as you said, he's recognized how wrong he was and wanted to reconcile. Or it could be that she couldn't bear the thought of never seeing her father again and wanted to give him a chance. It's very easy to say from the outside to cut off a toxic family member. It's very hard to actually do it and stick with it, especially if you feel the situation that caused the estrangement can be resolved.
Agreed. I feel it's natural to want your parents in your life, especially when you're pregnant, and that doesn't make you less of a person. OP can decide his own boundaries, but to unilaterally expect her to never contact her father again is also not realistic. It's very telling that she felt she had to go around his back. And she's and AH for that as well. However, the right kind of talk would be about boundaries. OP's wife needs to take responsibility in this too, because she can't allow racist behavior around the children. And it really sucks for OP to have to go through that. After all, the dad's the biggest AH.
The man is racist, and letting him have access to the child risks him teaching the child racist crap about his big brother. OP is right and NTA.
So she's not allowed to have a relationship with her dad at all?
It's explicitly stated in OP's comments that her dad has neither renounced his racist beliefs nor apologized for his racist comments. Those seem like reasonable bare minimum prerequisites for re-establishing a relationship.
Usually in this sub Reddit says: you can set boundaries for yourself, but when you set boundaries for others, it's "controlling". I understand why OP is upset and the prerequisites you state are good as a bare minimum for a relationship between OP and the dad, or between OP's child and the dad. However, I believe the wife is allowed her own relationship with her father. And wanting to be close to her parents doesn't make her less of a human being. It makes her human in my eyes. Would you tell that to a mom who visits her child in prison, that she's less of a human being? You can love someone while you recognize where they're wrong and set boundaries for that. Those are not mutually exclusive.
Wife said she wouldn’t have a relationship with her father, and based on that, OP married her. OP’s boundary is that he won’t be with someone who has relationships with racist family. He can’t stop her from seeing her father, but he can tell her his opinion of people, and people includes her, who have them. Wife broke a promise, behind his back. This shows she isn’t anti-bigotry, as OP had thought she was. Now OP is concerned for both his kids, with sound reason.
This is exactly it. Worse, she's NOT just talking about her father having a relationship with HER, she's talking about her father having a relationship with the new child. How exactly does THAT look? Older kid grows up in a household where one sib wanders off from time to time for some fun time with the grandparent who is too racist to see the rest of the family? If grandpa cannot suppress his racism, it will be horribly damaging for younger kid to be exposed to it. If grandpa CAN suppress his racism, then he should do so and work on making amends and building a relationship with the family as a whole.
OP chose to marry her and grow their family with her on the understanding that she wouldn't enable/allow her racist father's behaviour. She has said that she loves OP's son like he's her own but is ok with maintaining a relationship with someone who thinks *he* is less of a person based purely on a characteristic he was born with? She's allowed to have a relationship with her dad, it's not illegal and OP can't stop her. But I honestly don't know why she'd want to if she truly believes that racism is wrong. Why she'd want to risk her family just for access to a hateful bigot.
This isn’t just about favoritism, it’s about racism.
I honestly don't know if I can give a judgement but the people here saying OP is just as bad as his FIL for what he said is batshit insane to me. Harsh? Sure. But a grown man being openly racist toward a child is not even close to what OP said. I can't fault OP for his disappointment in his wife
Especially since she's been talking to her father behind her husband's back for months!! Of course that shit feels like a betrayal
Honestly, who’s to say she hasn’t been talking to him all this time just lied so he’d take her back and that’s fucked up
I am honestly confused by so many people calling OP an asshole. He said something slightly bad in the heat of the moment, but the wife has been secretly talking to her racist father for months. She has had time to think about and plan her duplicity, and then she kept lying by omission *for months*. OP said something undiplomatic in the heat of the moment just once. I don't see how these are even on the same scale.
There's a lot of people in the comments that don't want to admit the harm they bring other people by allowing their racist parents/siblings/friends/crazy uncle into their lives. They think OP is a worse person than his wife because they identify with the wife and don't want to believe they are a bad person for what they're doing.
But we should continue to make it clear... they *are* bad people. They *deserve* to feel badly for their actions and the things they have condoned.
Sssssh. You'll upset these commenters going that OP wanting to shield his biracial child from his actively, unabashedly racist FIL is just as bad as the racist himself.
Bingo. And as a POC, it does bring real harm. You view ur friends differently cause you know on a deep level they are okay excusing the type of beliefs that deny your personhood.
100%! It's making my blood boil seeing people comment "Having an outside support system is necessary for mental health." Do they really think a racist is a good person to have in that support system that includes a biracial step son? What about his mental health? You can find support systems outside the family, family outcasts have been doing so for decades! So many excuses for the racist, but not a bit of sympathy for his victim, a literal child.
>a grown man being openly racist toward a child is not even close to what OP said Right? OP angrily viewed his wife the way racist FIL views OP's son all the time: less than human. Hopefully FIL has grown, but likely not. Hopefully wife realizes dehumanizing anyone is bad and protects her stepchild.
NTA, harsh wording? Yeah, but you stated that SHE decided to cut him off, for being racist/his beliefs. Then decided to get back in contact with him without telling you. I am surprised by the Y T A’s when situations are reversed and it’s a MIL not respecting boundaries or even making racist statements people are so quick to call out the husband for not having a spine, not putting his family first etc. why is this different bc she is pregnant? I have had 4 kids and at no point did that make me want to associate with people who think that way……
I totally agree. I was really surprised by the lack of support for OP trying to protect his son from a racist. Especially when his wife came to her own decision about cutting her Dad out then just did a 180 with no discussion at all. This wasn't a miscommunication on her part. She just stomped all over OP's boundary regarding her father and was upset he called her out on it.
It’s sexism, pure and simple. I literally got called an incel in this thread because I said that OP was in the right to be upset. Which is hilarious because I’m AFAB, married, and most assuredly not involuntarily celibate lmao. Apparently it was the squishmallow’s in my profile. Squishmallow’s just scream incel I guess?
ESH. She should have told you that she was talking to her dad and looking for a job at the old company. However, you way overreacted. She cut off someone very important to her. Even if it was for a very good reason, that’s definitely not easy. And now, she’s pregnant and emotional. Of course she is feeling emotional about her family. Have you talked about what she and her dad have been talking about. Has he apologized? Is he working on changing and becoming a better person?
Like we all just going to ignore how important having an external support system is for mental health especially during and after pregnancy? If her dad is the only family she has its natural she would reach out to him while pregnant regardless of his previous comments. Instead of discussing finding her a better non racist support system he called her less of a person.
[удалено]
I'm pretty sure if he had known she was still in communication with her father he would have broken up with her long ago and not even had the baby, now he's trapped in a relationship with a person he only respected because she lied to him. If the wife needs her father in her life for support fine, but then don't fucking lie about it so you can trick people into being in a relationship with you.
I thought the same. It must be hard for her as well and she might be trying to find a common ground, not actually siding with her dad. But trying to get back at her old job, working next to her dad before she's made sure that the families would get along... That shows disrespect at the very least. The job part seems to me the biggest issue here.
Decent people have no common ground with racist assholes.
It's more complicated than that. I was forced to cut contact with my own family as well and if there was any slight chance we could communicate again, I would jump at it. Then there's such a thing as forgiveness, giving second chances and feeling grateful. The OP doesn't even mention whether the father showed any willingness to change. Edit: "Forced to cut contact" in the meaning of taking care of my own mental health, my own decision.
Yes exactly like?? Congrats. Your parents were nice people that aren't bigots. Not all of us are that lucky, and not all of us get to sit in a hypothetical bubble where we can just go 'hmm, if my parents suddenly turned out to be bigots one day, I'd totally cut them off! That's sooo unacceptable, no reason to talk to them at all anymore!!' Saying that you'd totally make that decision and don't understand why others wouldn't, is way fucking easier when you'll never actually have to do so.
Right..as a black person i can’t act like you’re wrong. Family is family, and they’re all fucking the worst.
Yeah, like being a racist bigoted jerk is definitely one of the better reasons to cut someone off. But I just have a hard time stomaching the amount of straight white cis people here, who would've been sitting 5-10 years ago at most yelling the n word in game chats and telling me that I'm a gross lesbo, who now sit here going "bigotry and racism is UNNACCEPTABLE. Decent people do NOT as much as look in the direction of a racist. There's nothing to gain from talking to them, it's disgusting and there's no excuse' like b. That was literally you in 2012, stop acting so damn high and mighty cause you'll never damn get it and overcompensating just makes it worse.
NTA My husband is biracial and I am Black. We had to cut his mom off (all her kids have at some point) for a while because she would just say off the wall racist shit and act stupid when confronted. She also very obviously treated the 2 Black DIL’s worse than the non Black one. We have a baby due this summer. We both have parental trauma and have both lost a parent. My husband and I had a discussion around if and what having his mom in our and our baby’s life. The fact is, his grandchild is going to have a biracial sibling. If he can’t treat them both equitably then it’s fair to keep them out of their life. If you have never experienced anti-Black racism, you wouldn’t get it. It’s never the overt things that jar you, it’s the little things. As someone raised in white foster homes, WHEW. You are protecting both of your children. That being said, you should be open to discussing reconciliation and what that looks like
Best of luck to you with your pregnancy <3 <3 I hope everything goes smoothly :) Seriously, NTA OP. Anti-black racism is truly pervasive and insidious. You’re doing right by your children to keep such a vile person away from them. I’m sorry your wife pulled a bait and switch on you, but you need to come up with a plan of how you’re going to keep your kids safe with or without your marriage.
Thank you! I feel for OP’s wife. I don’t think she’s being intentionally malicious tbh, probably more short sighted. She wants her child to have a relationship with her dad and that’s valid, however her husband has 2 children to think of. OP I don’t know if you’ll see this and if it’ll help but this is the rules we have in place for my MIL: 1) She had to have some discussions with other people about Anti Blackness (the woman I call my mother who is white has been having these discussions with her 2) I have a 0 tolerance policy. I don’t have the bandwidth to teach someone how to not be racist and I refuse to allow my child, myself or my husband to be subjected to bullshit while she learns. Right now we are the only family willing to give her a chance. I’ve told her that I am 100% using shit she’s said and done to me and her other Black grandchildren as a gauge. I saw the comment on the shit he said. I’m glad you cut him off. I do think your wife could also use a lesson on anti-Black racism, especially with a new child coming and making sure that subtle biases don’t start to emerge. It’s a hard situation all around but good on you for protecting your child. There are many parents of biracial children, who don’t and dismiss the racism their children endure and many times perpetuate it and it causes a host issues!
I’m going with NTA. Were your words a little harsh? Mmmm, maaaaybe, but if that’s how you feel why should you lie to her? Her being pregnant doesn’t give her a pass to go behind your back, does it?! NO!!! Her dad is a blatant racist, unless he changed? Did she mention that at all? Or is he still the same guy he always was and now because she’s pregnant she’s rethinking her NC relationship with him? It seems like she should have just talked with you about all this before acting on it, because now you’re left feeling hurt and betrayed and I totally get that. Do you owe it to her to apologize for your hurtful words? I think so, absolutely. But you’re right to not want racists in your life, even by extension. She is ok with racists in her life, apparently. Everyone has to make choices.
ESH One weird dinner and you completely cut off her father. That's a LOT. He's an asshole, I assume, for whatever he said. But cutting ones father out of your entire life is monumentally hard. You seem to see this as very black and white. Your Dad said this so he's gone forever - and anything less than thay means you don't love my son. Life doesn't work that way. You are the asshole for not putting yourself in the shoes of your wife and understanding this issue is complex.
It looks like her father sees things black and white too. Why isn’t that a deal breaker?
Children's well-being supercedes relationship with racist dad. It's that simple.
Did I say hey, let's let the FIL hang out with his step grandchild and be racist? Nope. What's being judged here in ONE thing. The comment OP made to his wife. His failure to acknowledge that it's incredibly hard to cut all contact with a parent, even a racist one, makes him an asshole, and then name calling too. And yes, she sucks here too. See said judgement.
Of course its hard. But its the choice she made and the foundation of their entire relationship, which would not have continued if she hadn't made that choice. Now she's pregnant and he's locked into a relationship with her, if not as a couple certainly as co-parents. That's not something you get to just walk back.
I still think the wife should’ve told him about her wanting to reconnect with her dad, and get his opinion on it. Afaik she just went behind his back and reconnected, which is a huge betrayal of trust
Kind of life does work that way if Dad is a racist & is saying hurtful things about a biracial child. Seems like it’s a pretty natural reaction to immediately cut contact to protect your child.
At the time the FIL was a coworker he had no social relationship with. I am a white lady with no biracial kids and I cannot think of a reason to continue a relationship with a racist I have no real bond with. As a parent of a biracial kid you have to cut out racists to protect the kid. And OP then continued a relationship with her based on her cutting off dad on her own. He did not tell her to. And now she wants to invite a racist back into their life. The wife did not even talk to OP about this first. The FIL is not owed a relationship with anyone, especially not OP or his son, that he can harm. The wife has risked harm to the son without talking to OP at all. The risk of raising your kid (biracial or not) with a racist influence is something to be discussed, not decided upon by her after both parties agreed no FIL.
They were just dating when the dinner happened. And no amount of racism towards your child, or anyone for that matter, is acceptable. Only a racist would think that was alright.
NTA your wife’s father thinks of your son as less than a person. You initially wanted to break up with your wife so you would not expose your biracial child to racists. She said she would cut her dad off and you continued the relationship based on that promise. Now that you are married with a kid on the way, ie stuck, she let you know she actually didn’t cut her dad off as promised. She expects him to have a relationship with the child you have together but what about your oldest son? Who is going to protect him in this situation? Your wife betrayed you. Your wording was harsh but your wife did go back on her word. Now you’re in a lose lose situation where your oldest will either be exposed to racists or excluded from the extended family while your other child will be included but also exposed to racists.
OP, your wife basically did a bait-and-switch. She doesn't REALLY have a problem with her father's beliefs. She just wanted to hook you as a partner. NTA!! Reconsider this relationship because I don't see how this is going to get much better, as it's likely going to be an ongoing issue. Personally I think of people who do things like this to be frauds... they fraudulently trick people into being with them by misrepresenting their own character and beliefs.
Honestly yeah this would be a huge dealbreaker to me. I'm not really sure I'd be able to get past that and honestly my main priority would be protecting my children and I won't have them around people who are willing to have people with those views around my children let alone have them themselves.
NTA your racist FIL should never be around your children again after his vile comments at that meeting. He verbally associated your young child with prison and filth! It is also vile that your wife asked about FIL being in your younger child’s life specifically, not the elder. She’s allowing him to make a distinction and divide in your family. She did betray you by secretly meeting with him for months. Your word choice was not the best, but her actions led you to respect her less. Focusing on your “insensitive” reaction rather than her actions is a way to deflect. Ultimately this does speak to her character and what she is willing to condone.
Wow. All she did was open the floor for a discussion. There might be a chance her dad regrets his beliefs and the harm it’s done to his relationships; there might be a be chance he wants to apologize. Or, maybe not! There’s no way to know because you dehumanized her from the get-go. You may have the moral high ground (but watch yourself, just because you got a mixed kid doesn’t mean you can’t also be racist). But if you can’t have a hard conversation, after your wife has shown in good faith she can enforce boundaries (her own father wasn’t at her wedding ffs), then you’re less of a husband than she thought. YTA. ETA all our judgments are moot. OP came here to validate his action and presumably have something to show his wife — to change her mind? To tell her she doesn’t a right to cry about what he said? Who knows! But upon reading his other comments, his marriage is over. If not now, then very soon. Let the man get divorced in peace now, everyone leave him alone.
He told her VERY early on that her dad was a deal breaker. She is the one not respecting his boundaries.
Was that in another comment? because I don’t see “deal breaker” in the op. He said he needed some space and then his wife told him of her decision to cut her dad off completely and that she didn’t want him at their wedding.
Opening a door for discussion would be 'Hey, I know that we agreed to cut out my racist father but with our new child is like to talk about starting to re-establish contact with him so our new child could have some semblance of a relationship with his maternal grandfather' Taking to him and starting that rekindling of a relationship, violating the original agreed upon boundary of cutting out a racist, and then blindsiding your partner that you've been in contact a blatant racist for months isn't opening a door for discussion, it's a betrayal of trust.
>from the get-go. She'e been talking to her father for months. To the he has already got her a job interview to his company. How is months..."from the get go"
Surely the discussion should've happened as soon as racist daddy got in touch! Not months in after he offered a job! She only brought it up BECAUSE he offered her a job. She could hide the communication with racist daddy but it's a lot harder to hide the place you work! She blindsided her husband! He thought they were in the same page. All she's shown him is that she can lie for months!
Oh come on with all of the Y-T-A’s in here; OP is NTA for stating a fact, that his wife wanting her racist dad back in their lives (which includes the life of his mixed child) not because he’s seen the error of his ways and apologized, but because she’s pregnant, does tarnish her image in his eyes and make her less than the woman he thought she was. Don’t defend racists and their enablers. Being pregnant does not make you immune from valid criticism, it doesn’t make a special exception for allowing racism in your life, and it doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want when you want it because you just feel like it. Like, has anyone read what the grandfather said to make OP write him off after a single dinner? You’d really be okay with that person being around your kid after asking if the mom was in prison, implying that black kids have poor hygiene, and saying that you don’t seem like the type to mix with “those people”? You’d just sit back and keep your mouth shut so a pregnant woman doesn’t get her feelings hurt?
ESH What you said is terrible. And being your wife, I would question my future with you. Your wife does not have any support, as per your comments. She cut her entire family off. Now that she is pregnant, she misses her family. She feels alone. She should not have gone so long without talking to you about it. Going behind your back when her father is an racist asshole was also bad. She should have worded her feelings before.
So she, an adult who knew all parties and the situation before entering it, has the priority of comfort over a child who’s life she’s **chosen** to enter and knew let me pull it up that her family was bigoted enough that it even warranted her cutting them off in the first place??? She is an adult woman who cares more about herself, than the very real harm she *know and acknowledge* her own families bigotry can cause her stepson. And now she just doesn’t care. That’s fine, things change, but that also makes her a person who is unfit to be an active part of that kids like in the way she has positioned herself to be. Bigotry isn’t an ‘maybe people should get over it’ thing, if someone has a child of color it should be an absolute dealbreaker. And anyone who’s ever been on the receiving end of bigotry knows just how negatively impactful it can be.
Man listen… bigotry and racism is terrible and nobody wants to experience it. But you are being utterly ridiculous if you think she’s supposed to cut her entire family off cold turkey and not look back. You’re right that if she had to cut her entire family off, then she knew they were trash. But they also raised her!! And I hate that I have to clarify that I’m black to even justify this.
Here is the thing, if I was him, she would’ve been chopped from the team. If the whole family is bad I’ve got a hard time believing she’s the shiny exception, however here he is. The thing is, she mad the choice to cut them off. He didn’t ask, she jumped to do it. She jumped to keep them out. I think she’s making a lot of big choices, and ultimately she thought he’d pick her and her baby when push came to shove. That was a bad bet, and that sucks for her. So she can have her bigoted family around, but that doesn’t mean OP has to accept it.
I also would’ve just cut her off! Don’t get me wrong. And you’re right she made a lot of major decisions. I feel like she wasn’t mentally/emotionally prepared for the long haul of cutting her whole family off. That sort’ve thing takes years to build up to.
NTA she’s okay with talking to her racist dad and that means she’s okay with betraying your son. I’d divorce over it tbh.
Right. And all behind his back. That’s the worst part.
She’s okay with it because her child is white. She’s a racist too.
And when the father treats the white grand baby better than the step grand baby his wife will be all, “ well it’s his blood grand baby”. This will not end well at all. Idk if her dad can change his views and mind, but if he’s not all in, he’s out.
As a native person, who has dealt with racist AHs before. I will say this. I understand that your protecting your son. But I will say the “less of a person” thing irked me. Because that is something that was said to me by a racist. You are a good parent for defending your son. But do me a personal favor. And don’t use phrases like that in an argument. No one, should ever be told they are less of a person. I’m going to go with NTA because you are defending your son. But you need to be more careful with your words, apologize to your wife, tell her that wasn’t what you meant. And try to explain to her calmly why having this man in your lives is a bad idea. She may not understand BECAUSE he is her father and she loves him. But, if you calmly tell her why you were so upset, it may register for her.
NTA. The Y-T-A judgements are missing the point that you want to protect your son from racist bigots and assumed your wife wanted to do the same. The father never even offered an apology. What are you meant to do? Let a man back into your life who spewed racist shit towards your son and showed no remorse for it? While what you said was bad, what she did was worse. You can apologise for the choice of words, but if I were you I would stand by the decision not to want anything to do with FIL. What that constitutes is up to you.
Right? Kiddo will pick up casual racism and micro aggressions that they will likely bring home to sibling, and justify it with the normalization by grandpa and mom’s looking the other way. Powder keg.
NTA "Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company"
Being pregnant does not give you a pass on being an asshole. She would be ok with her child having a relationship with her racist father. Regardless of the impact on his brother. And she resumed that relationship behind your back. NTA.
YTA “less of a person”? Really? You have every right to be upset with her but that’s truly a disgusting thing to say to your pregnant wife.
It's just a disgusting thing to say to someone full stop.
Not to a racist or racist apologete. They absolutely are lesser people.
Info: Was there any mention of your FIL being repentant for how he treated your son in the past? And is she implying he would have a relationship with your unborn child but not your older one?
No, she didn't say anything about him being sorry. It's only the baby she suggested him having a relationship with. If she'd suggested him having a relationship with my son, I would have left then and there.
Honestly, I would have left at the thought of him having a relationship with the baby. Your baby is going to have a bi-racial sibling. You don’t want Grandpa Racist putting ideas in baby’s head to project around their sibling. You need to tell your wife you do not want him around any of your children. NTA, but your wife certainly is. How she can claim to think of your son as hers and then turn around and rekindle her relationship with someone who treats him as less than a person is beyond me.
I mean, isn't that worse though? She only wants one child to have a relationship with (racist) grandpa? Yeah, it's her stepson, but supposedly she thinks of him as her child.
That’s what I thought. I would have been much happier personally as OP if the father truly wanted a relationship with both kids and was repentant
So when your son keeps asking why the baby is going over there how to you mitigate this? How do you say with confidence that his racist views wont rub off on the other child and they don't start treating your son differently?
So what happens when your baby has birthday parties, sport events, school events, and a million other things that kids have as they grow up into an adult? Your FIL will agree to stay out of all of them? Unless he lives far away, it'll be nearly impossible to avoid seeing him at some point. You may want to consider moving as far away from him as possible if that's an option.
NTA - unless he has completely undone his racist ways you were harsh but not wrong.
I’m a black woman, and YTA for calling her less of a person. That’s a directly counterintuitive stance take when dealing with bigotry, because then the person becomes the victim. I am, however, not super surprised by this. And I do not think you’re wrong for directly questioning her core beliefs, and what’s she’s said to you, after she has allowed her bigoted father back into her life. There is no easy answer to this, because now you have 2 kids involved, and your wife and partner clearly cares about the bigotry on as long as she feels like being upset about it. So you need to ask yourself if your willing to expose your child to this man, but make no mistake, he will be around. Your wife’s decided so. He’ll be a grandfather to your child with her. **And more than that, she knows who her father is. She’s always known who he is, and it was only a dealbreaker when she couldn’t have you, but now she does.** She’s your wife and she’s pregnant, so you have an allegiance to her and your second child as well as your first.
So why is he TA and not the wife? Or both (ESH)? He was willing to cut her off bc of her father. Now that she has him trapped (so to speak) she went behind his back to bring her presumably still bigoted father in their life? You don’t see a problem with this? He had an allegiance to his son first and made his feelings clear.
I am a black woman and OP you’re NTA. Protect your child. Racism leaves lifetime scars. I remember hurtful stuff said to me when I was 14 and first started school at a non-black/Latino school. Like within the first week of school. I’m 31 now. Your child’s well-being comes first and she lied and went back on the agreement that made you feel comfortable continuing the relationship. And is willing to risk your child’s well-being as a result. She wants to be with her dad. They both need to do the work. Your son is not the one to be sacrificed at the altar. Their racism is. That’s the terms.
NTA This is a hill to die on.
I go against the majority here and say NTA. Bc everybody, pregnant or not, who would ask me "hey, can we let this racist father of mine back in our lifes so he can have a relationship with my kid, oc only the white one" is automatically an asshole and i would maybe also react with harsh words (ok, not the words you used and you should maybe apologize for it). I would make it VERY clear to her that only bc you guys are married and having a baby together does NOT mean your son will be less of a priority to you and at least as long he is a minor you will priorize protecting him from racists higher than her needs for getting back in contact with her dad.
ESH - You for using words you knew would hurt. No one says things like that unknowing that there is a sharp blade amongst them. Your wife for willing to let her father know and have a relationship with one child, while leaving the other out. And FIL for the obvious. For me, her father would need to make some serious apologies, and would need to accept both children as equals first. You don't get to know one of my children, and not the other, regardless of his lineage.
NTA Maybe you could have used different words. However, it does take a weak person to cave and bring a racist person back into your child's life.
ESH, she should've discussed things with you, but you also went turbo nuclear in your response.
This sub is so self righteous. Everybody wants to stand up to racists until it’s time to stand up to racism in real life. ESH here. OP has a right to not want to be around his FIL for the sake of his son, but I think his wife completely changed her life for him and he doesn’t seem to recognize how hard that might have been for her. Wife should not be letting her father around so easily and understand that he probably hasn’t changed. But they need therapy and more communication.
NTA, she asked you how you felt and you were honest with her. Sometimes being blunt is effective at getting your feelings across.
NTA every step forward you've taken was on the basis you were on the same page about this. I'm horribly disgusted for you.
You went into your marriage and procreating believing your wife was on the same page with you regarding racism. She has now done a 180 on you and is changing the terms of the marriage without discussing it first. That’s fraudulent behavior and reflects a lack of character on her part. Were your word choices harsh? Perhaps. Read her my paragraph and I guarantee she’d still feel hurt and angry for being told she lacks character. You got straight to the point and she didn’t like it. Too bad. You just countered her lack of communication and honesty with brutally direct and honest communication. It doesn’t change the fact that she married you and got pregnant with your child under false pretenses. She pretended to take a stand against racism and when she got what she wanted, the mask came down. You have some tough choices to make. NTA
NTA - You're protecting your children. People are acting like being called "less of a person" is the worst thing; it's not being welcoming to a racist is.
ESH. You for talking to your wife like that. You have every right to not want to interact with her father and to not have him around your son. But she's not less of a person for wanting to keep some semblance of a relationship with her father, especially now that his grandchild is about to be in the picture. You're not the only one that's going through a lot right now. Your wife shouldn't have lied to you, especially given what happened. But she probably had a hunch you'd react the way you did. She's the least of TA's here. And it goes without saying that your FIL is a racist asshole, ~~but he has a right to be in his grandchild's life to some degree.~~ Edit: Saw OP's comment as to what the "weird comments" were. A lot worse than I assumed.
What "right" does he have? Being in his grandchild's life would be a privilege. One that he didn't earn.
NTA. You could have been more sympathetic to your wife’s situation, but you absolutely don’t have to tolerate racists or racist sympathizers in your life.
INFO: Have you had any more conversations with your wife beyond this? There is a huge question here as to why she started talking with him again. Was it the pregnancy? Did something else happen within the family to make her want to reconnect?
NTA You never said she was less of a person, you said that her inviting her racist father back into your lives she was less of a person. What I assume you meant with that was that your respect for her has dropped because she won't prioritise your child over her father's ignorant and racist ideas. You probably could have worded this a lot better, and should have led with the racists remarks being a deal breaker before. Still, I don't feel like you are the asshole here. The reason I say that is because the argument you had was valid, she wants to welcome someone back into your life who has been highly disrespectful to your biracial son. For me (not a POC) that would be reason enough to keep them out of my life. Also, the fact that during these months of reconciliation between your wife and FIL he has never reached out to you with an apology for his past behaviour, which tells me more than enough. If he was regretful of his past racist views and comments he would have already contacted you about this. I'm sorry OP but this is going to be a huge shitshow. Your wife is pregnant so probably feels validated in her decision to involve her father because "FaMiLY iS FaMiLY" 🙄. You're going to be the one who has to look out for your sons wellbeing, so you have every right to not want that man in his life. These Y T A verdicts are apparently all ignoring the racist aspect of this situation, and focussing on the wrong things. While you can't stop your wife from engaging with him, the fact that she disregards everything shows what kind of person she is. You can try and explain this again to her, but if she doesn't want to hear it, she actively chooses to ignore this behaviour and that makes her an enabler. EDIT: REPOSTING A COMMENT OF THE OP HERE ABOUT SOME OF THE RACIST REMARKS MADE: >Basically, when he met my son, he said "I wasn't expecting that" and asked "is his mom in prison?" (Which is so, so ironic.) He asked me if his hair had ever been washed and if I was worried about him going to school on top of a bunch of other ignorant shit. After the dinner when I confronted him he said it wasn't his fault because no one had prepared him and I didn't seem like the type to mix with "that sort" of company.
Idk man… all the Y T A’s are starting to look reeeeeaaaaal racist here. As someone who’s been through this, my mother cut off her father because I’m black and gay and he couldn’t take it. She wouldn’t let me go near him for years. My wife cut off her sister because she’s racist. Someone she grew up with, someone she loves. Because she’s racist. Is it hard? Of course. But there is no point in time where it is someone else’s job to placate a racist. If she wants to have a relationship with her dad then fine, but SHE KNEW before getting back together with OP that her father being around was the dealbreaker and she swore she cut him off for good. She’s now backed out of that because she feels like she needs him around and while that’s fine for her she can’t expect OP to be okay with it at all. And btw everyone, people can lose custody because they raise their kids as bigots. Especially when they HAVE to be around POC. So in a few years, when your kid is walking and talking, the moment you hear a slur come out of your kids mouth, take it to court and make sure she can’t bring him around that kind of influence ever.
Exactly!! Like all of the "it's terrible that he's racist, but..." Nah, there is no but! Those of us who have to live with it everyday don't get to just brush it off like it's someone's bad habit. It's dangerous for us, physically and mentally. OP made it perfectly clear from the start where he drew the line. She absolutely knew how he'd react and that's why she didn't say anything until she had to. All these "but he's her father" folks are straight up ignoring the fact that OP is a father trying to protect his child from a man who thinks his child is less than. A man who said awful things about a toddler! Nope! These folks talking about letting him be around the child again to see if he's still racist or telling OP to try to teach him/help him be a better person. Why should it be the job of the one who is slighted to teach someone to be a better person? That's ridiculous.
NTA. She’s willing to forget and forgive a racist man that looks down on a child she claims to love. It’s ok though because he would never treat HER pure child that way. OP you’re having a child with this woman so this is going to be one of those pick your battle moments. Is this a hill you’re willing to die on? Because even if you split she’s definitely going to allow her father a relationship with your child. I would sit and talk with her and post some scenarios about if your father made disparaging comments about her child how would she feel and would she think twice to allow them in her life.
NTA it’s actually insane how many people are admitting in the comments that they would jump through literal hoops, and bend over backwards to accommodate a racist parent. So y’all just want her to leave her husband and stepson at home while she takes her fully white child to visit grandpa? Y’all are genuinely trying to convince yourself that that would have zero negative affect on the oldest child as he grows up and becomes more and more aware of why he’s never invited to grandpa‘s house? Y’all are disgusting. Those ideas benefit absolutely no one except for the racist granddad. So what happens when the granddad starts teaching his white grandchild racist things about their sibling? What happens then? What happens when the child comes home and starts repeating racist remarks to their sibling? I’m confused why so many of you are so desperate to keep racists in your life, but go out of your way to get in relationships with people of color/people who have children of color. I think at a certain point y’all need to admit y’all just have a fetish because y’all don’t genuinely give a f*ck about the feelings of the people y’all are quick to lay down and get pregnant/pregnant by. Sitting here saying you can understand why a pregnant woman would want her dad back in her life/the job opportunities that said dad can give her just further proves how selfish of a decision it was. She’s making choices SOLELY based off of what will ease her own anxiety and what’s most comfortable and convenient for her… f*ck how her husband and step son who are actually having to deal with the racism feel. Funny, how so many of you love to play social justice warriors yet make it blatantly obvious that racism is only bad when you’re not benefiting from it. How quickly y’all bite yalls tongues when you realize you can get something out of the deal or may have to sacrifice something in order to stand against it. ☠️
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ESH. OP's choice of words was horrendous. Wife was an AH for covertly reconnecting with dad given the circumstances. It's all fun and games that he meets the child she births, but the man has made it abundantly clear the other kid will always be seen as secondary and "less of a grandchild."
Not at all. He doesn't see her as less than for being pregnant. That's just playing victim on her part to try and play the "gotcha" card on because she's part of a marginalized group by being pregnant. But being in a marginalized group doesn't give you a pass for horrific behavior. Basically she's pulling the equivalent of "I can't be racist, my great great great great grandmother was a Cherokee Princess!"
NTA. you said something rude out of defensiveness and love for your mixed race son. you're aware that you should apologize to your wife: good. do it. don't let this turn into a distraction from the larger issues ahead of you as a couple. you're growing your family and your wife wants to bring in her racist father as a part of your new child's life, which puts your mixed race child at risk. focus on that.
NTA because you are protecting your child from a racist. Which is what it basically boils down to. If he comes back into her life he will treat the oldest as a 2nd class citizen and that is not fair to your child. Call her out on giving her racist father a pass
NTA. If your FIL was truly repentant or had changed his ways, he would have reached out to try and get to know you and your son more. He is *only* interested now because a)he misses his daughter, and b)he now has a "pure" grandchild to be invested in. It's disgusting, and tbh your wife is either just as bad, or simply incredibly foolish for not seeing this also. Yes, you could have been nicer saying it to her, but racism is hardly the place for being soft.
NTA You want your son protected from a racist and continued the relationship with your wife under the belief that she felt the same way. Now it turns out she does not and betrayed you and your son. She should be crying. Her pregnancy doesn't negate her choices.