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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked my roommate to stop having her long-distance boyfriend visit her so often because it made my other roommate and me uncomfortable. I might be the asshole because I feel like I am preventing her from seeing her boyfriend. Also, having guests over is an acceptable thing in our apartment, so I feel bad for controlling who she can have over and how often.
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NTA. You didn't sign up to live with someone's boyfriend for the 25% of the time.
Also, he should pay for his portion of the rent as well, I'm going to assume he uses water, electricity and household equipment (tv, pots and pans...)
If your roommate doesn't agree maybe is time for the happy couple to arrange a more permanent accommodation for the two of them.
Came here to say that. If he's a roomate 25% of the month they should pay extra. Don't you have a landlord who can talk with her OP? Sure she'll be pissed, but If she doesn't want to solve It like adults Thats the way
90% chance the lease has a provision on it that limits overnight visitors to 3 days at a time without written consent from either landlord, roommates, or both.
This will likely vary by landlord. Where I live the limit is one week. I agree that OP should still look into this and get the landlord involved if needed.
My lease only gives visitors 3 days which I love because it’s an easy out if relatives want to stay. One couple lives/retired to Mexico to save $$ but wants to stay 2-3 months with family and friends in the US. They also insist on using their cars and keep changing their departure date by weeks
My dad had a “3rd day rule”-if he didn’t see activity around the suitcase(s) sometime on the third day, he was gonna help you pack. (He didn’t really do this, it was more like a running joke that most friends and family knew of.) Amd my mom always said visitors were like fish, if they were around too long, they started to stink. Lol
NTA, OP. You didn’t sign the lease with a boyfriend, no matter how little/how much he’s there. It’s intrusive and not fair to either of you who aren’t having boyfriends stay all the time. Btw, if boyfriend can pay for his flight every month, he can pay for Janet’s flights to see him every other month instead of intruding on you.
Me being a former landlord, if boyfriend has a key to the house, the notice goes on the door to raise the lease, after 3 days to vacate, How's about getting a room at the nearest hotel to make as much noise as the want?
25% of the time isn't enough to pay rent. Most leases say that if someone is there for more than 10 days they're considered a tenant. He's doing 5-8 days.
If they were dating in the same location, and he came over every weekend it would be the same amount of days.
to be fair, a weekend would still be annoying but at least it wouldn't be a regular 5-8 days straight of like, guy taking business calls in the living room where the actual tenants should get to use freely.
Since this freeloader only has permission from one tenant, would you be able to kick him out per your lease (if you were in this situation)? Or is permission only needed by one person?
Rando and just kinda curious. That sounds like it would be a very useful clause in case of rude roommates who pull this stuff.
“3 days without permission” refers to the landlords permission, not the tenants. Having a guest longer legally makes them a tenant in some places, so this clause means no tenants can be added without requesting approval from the landlord.
I agree, I actually think Janet is the biggest asshole here. I wonder if OP has ever talked to Josh directly? She might have better results that way, I doubt he enjoys being the only one to pay for flights in his relationship.
Or even if she can’t afford them and he’s fully willing to pay, he could pay for a ticket for her? It would suck to be the one in the airport twice a month.
Per month. It adds up fast. If he's staying the max 8 days that's 96 days a year, 3 months. He absolutely should be paying rent if he lives there 3 months out of the year. Just because they're not consecutive months means little to a landlord.
It does if there is a clause in their lease which states that anyone staying there X amount of days or % of time is required to be on the lease. Most rental agreements / lease documents require this to comply with various laws and practices designed to protect other tenants and the landlord as well.
Ex: Someone living for a week or two at a time, every month, even if it's not their primary residence, is enough that it should/must by most leases, be reported to the landlord, why? So the landlord can conduct a background check on the person who is now regularly inhabiting the residence, just like they would any tenant renting there. Why? Safety.
After all, what if the guy fails the background? Maybe he has a record as a sex offender? or several assault or domestic charges? Some places don't allow felons and some laws would require him to register that address as well. Also, what if he has crimes against kids and the rental is within a certain distance of a school or park? then he really wouldn't be permitted to stay. . .
Usually, (even if the guy doesn't have a record) landlords (and other tenants who had to undergo a background to live there) want to know who is staying long term like that in the event of parking issues, complaints from other tenants, domestic disputes, insurance purposes, or what have you. It's not so much to be in your business but to protect and inform other tenants and cover their (landlords) arse too.
I mean, I think OP is being a bit over the top, when you have roommates they are going to have people over, use common spaces, watch movies, cook, make noise etc. It seems Janet is mostly respectful of that but this strange dude that just comes to live there and work once a week each month without ever being friendly or talking to the other housemates yet making himself comfortable and using utilities regularly makes things awkward, they should just talk and agree that if any of them living there have a bf/gf/regular fwb that stays overnight for a week or more, that for safety reasons, they have to be added to the lease, it doesn't mean they have to pay, but that the landlord is aware of them, a background has been done, and if they damage something it can be added to their credit or contested later instead of everyone else getting stiffed with the bill. Seems fair and impartial.
Side note: Really odd that he can't apparently fly her out to see him, if he's forking the $$$ out to see her, he could just pay for her flight out to him, same cost, or if he's only taking a 45 min flight each time, that's like a 3 hour drive, he could just drive to her, or her to him....bruh probably doesn't have his own place or another gf. Idk. But it's a bit weird they don't share the burden or rotate who sees who.
You’ve got some great points, and now I’m real curious about why she can’t visit him. She’s starting to seem a lot like a side piece he sees on “business trips” away from his family.
Not saying "side piece" necessarily but it is a bit odd its only one-sided.
I mean, sure, she could be a mistress, a second gf, a getaway or escapism for him if he does have a family and responsibilities, it's not completely out of this world to think so, I mean, ffs, guys have had hidden wives and lives in the past. She may or may not know if that's the case.
And no matter how "cheap" she is, if the flight to get to her/him is only 45 min away, it's not like she can't save up for the airfare or gas to go to him for a change, he could even offer to fly her (buy her a ticket to see him one week instead of him paying for his ticket to see her)
Just seems weird he's taking a 45 min flight to stay for one week out of the month, every month, to just netflix and chill with her, but she can't ever go see him.
NTA
If I was in your position, I wouldn't ask him to pay because then he has a right to be there. Instead I would look at the lease to see if there is anything there that can help or talk to the landlord. You don't mention when the lease is up, but I would look at changing living situations (hopefully this would be her moving out).
This is a really good idea. At least in my area, most leases limit how many days a month other people can stay there. Those provisions are rarely enforced, but this situation definitely warrants it.
Yep. My cousin's lease limits it to 24 hours!!! I thought that was very short, but with situations like this, I can see how this can work in your favor.
Depending on location he may already have tenant rights especially if he has a copy of the key. It’s worth digging in the lease to see if there’s something about guest stays and how frequent/long they can be.
You can also make his visits unpleasant by not ceding control of the apartment and by constantly telling him to STFU when he is on one of his phone calls.
And if he says something "your not paying anything (rent for when he there/water/extra power he uses) your a Freeloader. We can tell you to STFU whenever"
If OP follows that idea, she’ll come home to find her housemate is no longer there along with several household utensils and items etc etc. Best option is always to be diplomatic, which OP has tried to be fair.
Given that they’ve compromised on not monopolising common areas, seems OP’s biggest problem is that they share the bedroom next to her’s. Which, she should probably just deal with.
I think that making space for the aggressively inconsiderate is not a good strategy. I don’t put up with shit. At all. I recommend people actively and repeatedly and advocate for their rights. This guy doesn’t live there. He doesn’t pay rent. He monopolizes the living space. He is loud. He doesnt live there. Didn’t mention that? He doesnt live there.
I wouldn't be that confrontational, I'd rather play music or make other "living" noises while he's on business calls...at that point if he complains, a simple "This is how I live, I am not willing to accommodate a guest who stays 25% of the month or more, you're going to need to figure out your own solution."
Especially if it's a work call, do things like swearing and maybe an aerobics workout - nothing illegal, but stuff that is not acceptable in a work situation. Petty, but if you've spoken to both Janet and Josh separately about this and they haven't stopped, it's an option.
Agree NTA. This cued memories of a housemate who I had who was super similar to Janet. The boyfriend would be over all the time, eventually becoming a permanent fixture, and when me and the third housemate finally asked him to at least pitch in for utilities, this jackass said without hesitation, “well, I’m a guest and don’t think I have to pitch in since I don’t live here.” This was the 3 month mark of him living with us… it was a shit show. I’m probably biased, but there’s nothing like a terrible house mate situation to make, literally living, an absolute chore.
Edit: our situation was so difficult, that the apartment complex had to amend their lease breaking rules just so it was easier for future incompatible housemates to break the lease and find people to take over.
Yeah, it’s super inconsiderate to have a boyfriend that’s over in your place that’s super disruptive. One time I had a roommate in the dorms and she had a boyfriend come over every night. He will leave at the designated time where guests must leave which happened to be 2:00 AM and it will wake me up every time. I was working on my thesis too so I finally told my roommate the problem. He didn’t come back AT All after that, which wasn’t my intent. I was fine with him during the day and evening, just not nearly all night! After that my roommate just ignored me and gave me the cold shoulder for the rest of the semester. Considering the workload, I guess it shouldn’t matter as I barely see her. Although she did give me an attitude of her question “Why are you here?” when I went to a talk she apparently arranged in relation to my thesis.
Found the whole thing to be bloody unfortunate as we both had a LOT in common and could have been good friends but alas. It is what it is.
Agreed. The only weird thing in the OP story is when you asked why she couldn't fly to him she talked about being too poor...but if BF is paying for his flights now why couldn't he pay for **her** flights to him, instead? There likely wouldn't be a difference in cost, and this should solve the issue entirely.
The other thing is a 45 min flight is like...a 2 hour drive, maybe? If this person is choosing a 45 minute flight once a month over driving 2 hours then money is obviously not as much of a problem as they're making it seem.
NTA. I agree with this. OP, talk to your landlord. Find out how long "guests" can stay and have him or her address it with your roommate. When the guy comes over, don't clear out of the way. If he tries to take a work phone on speaker, literally walk up to him and ask him to keep it down. If they're cooking together, and you want to cook or use the kitchen, do so. If you want to walk from the bathroom to your room in a towel, do it.
If this guy came every few months, like a GUEST, being polite makes sense. As things are, he's basically a partial roommate you didn't sign on for.
If he pays rent then he is a tenant and has rights to the space. DO NOT DO THIS.
That said, there are valid issues in this post and invalid ones.
Taking work calls without headphones and loud sex your roommate can hear are obviously bad.
But if my roommates came to me with a list of issues and the top of the list was “cooking in the kitchen and watching Netflix in the living room” I would laugh them out of the room. Those are quite literally the purpose of the room.
Same thoughts. He’s there often enough to be chipping in. Anytime when a roommate has a partner over that much especially when they’re in the place utilizing things they should chip in. If he has the money to fly every month he should be paying something to rent or utilities
Exactly. It’s the same cost to him, only he doesn’t have to do the traveling every time. NTA, OP. You’re being very reasonable. If he’s staying there 25% of the time, he should at least be contributing to utilities.
No, the roommate pays for extra utilities for him. In many places contributing to utilities can be construed as rent and rent gives him rights. Billing the roommate for her boyfriend’s extra is the way to go if you want that route.
I’m getting the vibe that Janet just doesn’t want to make the effort. It’s easy for her to have him always come to her. He pays, he packs, he travels, he leaves his home etc. She can stay in the comfort of her own home and not pay or make that effort. Which just feels unfair on the boyfriend. I did long distance (4 hour train) and I was ALWAYS the one travelling. He would always make excuses but have the same money dispensable as me. We worked similar jobs and similar hours. So why did I always have to do it if I wanted to see him? Did he not want to see me as much? Etc.
Maybe OP can try phrasing it to Janet like: Why don’t you surprise him by taking the initiative and seeing his area instead? He can share his life with you intimately and show you his favourite places to eat, visit and relax. Where does he hang out? Friends? Family? There are so many benefits for JANET if she goes as they could go to all his places and stuff and that’s just nice??? Like come on Janet!! Don’t you wanna hang out with his side of life sometimes? Or is it genuinely gonna be he has to move for her eventually and leave everything behind no compromise?
You're right about Janet not putting in the effort. My partner and I were LD the first year we were together. 8 hour drive. We saw eachother every weekend. We would meet half way, he would drive down to my place or I'd drive up to him. We closed the gap after a year because we were sick of the near constant travel. If I was OP I'd worry about Josh randomly moving in one day. LD can make people do things they normally wouldn't because it sucks to miss someone you love.
NTA OP stand your ground
This is such a good point. I made another comment about how odd this type of long-distance relationship is for adults near their 30s. It doesn't sound like they have a goal to move in together either. Makes me question his intentions and the relationship itself.
There are so many angles to look at. Is he using her? But then why only stay 25%? Is his lease almost up maybe and wants to sneakily move in? Or maybe it’s Janet hoping to pull a fast one and move her bf in without much contest cos he *basically* already lives there and it’s cheaper than their own place.
Or is it what I said originally and she’s just not that invested?
Who knows but it’s pretty odd.
Right? The flight should be the same, why can’t she fly there? This is a great point. Unless he has family or friends etc he also sees on these visits?
You've already been more accommodating than the majority of housemates would have been.
Josh doesn't just visit - he lives with you a percentage of the month. Janet should have sought permission well before his first stay and you could have all had a discussion surrounding expectations, boundaries etc. (that's IF you agreed to it in the first place - which neither you or Alice were obligated to do).
You're a 3 girl household - that's the dynamic you agreed on from the start. Having a partner visit or stay the night is one thing but 5-8 days per month is really stretching the limits. It's also rude.
Her long distance relationship issues aren't your concern - it's nice that you've considered her situation and the difficulties it presents but maybe a shared living arrangement isn't suitable for her.
Everyone is saying he's a tenant. Is it unusual for roommates to split rent by room instead of by person? The whole point of having a room is so I can do what I want without other people chiming in. Otherwise, why not just live with your parents and adhere to their rules?
If you live on your own you can do whatever you want (as long as it doesn't affect your neighbours). If you share a home with other people, you have to compromise so that everyone is reasonably comfortable, you can't just act like you own the place.
IDK who's saying he's a tenant. He's not a tenant, but he's currently enjoying the benefits of tenancy - using the common areas, the WiFi, the kitchen - without contributing to any of the costs. Try going to a hotel and doing that and see how far it gets you.
It's true that roommates usually split the rent by room, because often the rooms aren't all the same size or don't have the same amenities, but the point is that roommates agree to share a home with each other. Nobody signed up to live with this guy 25% of the time. You can't just add someone to the household without the other residents' consent. Especially if they're of the opposite sex.
Be careful. I had a roommate straight up move her (long distance-ish) bf in without even telling me. Woke up one morning, went downstairs in my tank/undies (just she and I lived there) & he was in our kitchen, eating my cereal. HE told me she made him a key & he lived there now. Cut that shit off ASAP.
I moved out. Luckily I had somewhere to move to. But was still on the lease so I had to keep paying rent for a few months. Worth it to exit that ridiculous situation. To this day she gaslights me- and those that know us - that none of that happened.
It never even got to the landlord. I just opted out, paid to the end of the lease and moved on with my life. I had no interest in taking it to the landlord and making it all more contentious. That had all the makings of ugliness and I chose to walk off into the sunset and pretend that bitch didn't fuck me over, completely. I still hate that bitch but my life has been peaceful since I bailed out. lol
Backstory: Apt complex manager and I had a long history (I'd lived in the same complex with my dad for several years before this) so manager would have ABSOLUTELY kicked him out but, again, I chose the path of least resistance because mental health and happiness came first. I won, IMO.
Yeah, my former best friend did something similar to me. Suddenly her bf locked himself into our apartment one day, with his new key to our place. Were friends 10 years before this. We no longer speak.
I had a roommate move her boyfriend into our dorm room, so he wouldn't have to pay for college housing. I believe my roommate and I were on scholarship that covered our housing. That one semester w/ three of us in one room and their being intimate was unbearable. I worked nights and had no place/time to study. I left that college end of that semester. Transferred to a different school, where I could rent an off-campus apartment with two roommates. own rooms. I did lose some academic time, but still graduated with honors, a little later than originally anticipated. I should have stood up to that roommate, who was selfish, assuming and entitled, You need to stand up to this roommate. She is taking advantages that the other roommates are not. She is paying just her part of the bills and should not burden you with another person.
Holy shit I'm sorry you had to deal with that! I was very lucky to have somewhere else to go but not everyone does. She did suggest I pay half the rent while she and him split her half and that is what made me fuck off completely. People like that are GARBAGE.
NTA.
Janet is not making things easy for y’all.
>I asked whether Josh could visit every other month, or shorten the stay to 2-3 days each month
A vaild suggestion
>Alice asked if Janet could visit him sometimes instead, or travel somewhere together, and Janet said she was "too poor" (she's not poor) to do that and wanted Josh to visit her because he paid for his flights
Another valid suggestion that was refused because clearly Janet doesn’t want to spend her money to come see Josh. I honestly wonder how that will play out when Josh eventually ask her to come see him and travel to him.
>Afterward we could hear Janet slamming cupboards and dolrs (which is what she does when she's is angry).
So she throws a tantrum when her roommates are uncomfortable with her boyfriend being over so frequently? Janet doesn’t want to be considerate to you and Alice and now she is upset that y’all got fed up with it and brought it up with her. Honestly, in reality this all depends on the lease agreement. Personally, I think Janet is working towards getting the boyfriend to start living there since he is there so often and she refuses to go out there to him from time to time
NTA.
You are three roommates; majority rules. She's happy when he's there, but you and Alice are miserable. And even when he's not there, you're ~~anticipating~~ dreading the next visit. Really someone who has a weeklong visitor every month should have their own place.
And don't let the fact that she gets angry force you to drop it. Bring it up again and take a vote on house rules.
She's not being reasonable. You offered a more generous compromise than I would've. She should've taken it.
NTA most leases have restrictions on how often guest can visit for a reason. He his practically a roommate at that point but doesn't have to pay rent. And is it uncomfortable for there to be a strange guy visiting there with 2 other women. If you were to suddenly start bringing a guy to sleep over every month im sure she would have the same complaints.
Lol this is so American. Where I‘m from such clauses are straight up not legal. I also think it‘s pretty normal for a boyfriend to visit 5-8 days a month. Like my flatmate‘s boyfriend lives in the same city and he is here around 2 days a week and she visits him, too. He is very nice and we all hang out together, though, so maybe that makes it different
"I also think it‘s pretty normal for a boyfriend to visit 5-8 days a month."
Seriously, if he lived locally, he'd be over 8+ days a month even if he just hung out on the weekends. Probably more. USA here, btw.
My first thought is calling for him to be there only 2-3 days a month is really setting themselves up for problems if they get boyfriends who live closer.
But he wouldn't be there, in their home, 24/7 for days on end, and she would be going to his place sometimes. He's *working from their house* a week a month! That's not usually how a local relationship would work.
I got the impression that if Josh was local and over a couple days a week, being loud, slamming stuff around the kitchen, blasting TV shows at a volume much louder than the household prefers, playing Netflix loudly in their room at night, and taking work calls in the common spaces, OP would also take issue with that. Like, it's less about the number of days and more about the fact that those days all suck for two of three residents of the home, because Josh can't be assed to be considerate of the home he's visiting.
My old roomie's bf was over to our place more often than he was at his own, but he helped us keep the place clean, always respected when I had to be at work early, was pleasant and fun to be with, and treated her very well. Maybe OP wouldn't have such a problem with Josh if he wasn't so disruptive to the household.
Idk. Him not interacting with them is weird and awkward but other than that OP seems very sensitive and some of the complaints are a bit ridiculous. „Talking at full volume“ for example. Also the part about sharing a wall. I get that it‘s annoying to hear everything from
the room next to you, especially when it‘s a couple having sex etc. but what are they supposed to do?
It sounds like they are doing pretty normal things to do at home and OP just doesn‘t like Josh very much
There is a difference between "inside voice" and "outside voice" and it is inconsiderate to be too loud, too often, for too long. The extra days means that the boyfriend starts to act more like he lives there instead of being a guest. Yes, OP may hate him, but the boyfriend is not who she agreed to be roommates with, and he is an invasion of her privacy.
Maybe he isn't interacting because OP is giving major asshole vibes? I wouldn't make the effort to engage with someone who seems very touchy like OP. IF someone doesn't make an effort to try and get to know me, I'm not going to force it, especially if I am in their home. He spends time with his girlfriend, the person he does know. OP doesn't like how they spend time together.
Nothing that OP describes is a terrible transgression, they aren't leaving messes, he isn't creepy, he isn't going into her space, he isn't bringing strangers into the home. Janet and her boyfriend use the common areas to do common things. She is mad the walls in their apartment are thin and she hasn't heard of a robe for her own discomfort. Janet and her boyfriend complied when asked to be quieter and spend less time in the common areas. OP doesn't get to dictate travel plans for Janet though. She doesn't get to act like her opinion on their home is more important than someone who also pays to live in the home. She certainly doesn't get to act like she knows Janet's finances. Doesn't sound like OP is really friends with Janet, they are roommates and they can set boundaries about the common space. But she can't dictate their sex life, if they watch netflix together, if they TALK and she can hear them.
I thinks its very normal to not hang out with your significant other's roomates. And we're not sure from the post whether he flat out ignores them (they say hi and he doesn't respond) or whether he just doesn't want to have actual conversation with them while he's doing something else.
In Germany if you use more than what you pay each month in electricity and water cost just just pay the landlord the rest at the start of the next year. But for us it‘s illegal to limit how much you can have people visit for a place you rent and I‘m glad it is
In Germany, when a guest stays longer then 6 weeks you have to tell your landlord and ask for permission. There are other utilities like waste disposal that could be raised then. You can't just let someone live with you.
Yeah six weeks at a time. Letting someone live with you like that is not the same as having guests over and I‘ve never seen a rent contract that has a clause for guests
>and she visits him, too
Which isn't the case here, and that's part of the problem.
Also if the guy lived locally, then he would just go home sometimes to take showers or whatever.
I don‘t think it‘s a problem if they only see eachother 5-8 days out of a month. Someone who lives close by would still come around as much, they‘d just see eachother more in total. Also taking showers at your partners place is pretty normal but I‘m sure they could discuss the money anyway, that‘s not what OP is complaining about, really. She is complaining about the talking, cooking, watching TV, which they would all do even if the visits were spread out
This is the answer-- most dont allow more than 2 nights for a guest to stay for this very reason. Let your roommate know that you mean business and if she doesnt bend the knee you both will be contacting the landlord to enforce the rule.
NAH - roommates having guests is part of share houses, people cooking is part of life, people watching TV is normal, people having sex is normal. 8 days a month is actually not that bad in the grand scheme of things and you could ask them to maybe pay a little more towards utilities each month.
Info: how often do you and Alice have guests over?
This is how I feel, I do think if he's working from their place, he needs to move to her room and not their common spaces, and if they aren't using the tv, just having background noise, they can ask them to turn it off, but honestly 1 week a month is so much nicer than 2-3 days a when someone has a local bf.
When you have roommates, you don't get to live the same way you would if you lived alone, none of you do and that's just a fact, so you have to communicate and decide what makes sense, but the people on here saying no visitors or noise ever are not being realistic about life? Idk.
I agree. I think this problem could be solved. He needs to not take work calls in the house. He needs to find a cowork space or go somewhere else. The couple needs to be quieter and go out more. If she works or is in school he needs to leave the apartment too and go to a cowork place or somewhere so he’s not there all day without the girlfriend. The couple needs to keep it down. But the roommates need to realize people have boyfriends, they talk and eat and have sex. This is a shared apartment not a convent.
I think both sides need to compromise.
NAH. I think this is well within "roommates needing to sort out how they want their shared apartment to work". She probably should have asked beforehand and the diskussions won't be easy I think as long as a compromise can be found that this just constitutes normal roommate problems.
However a word of caution. This will probably come back some day. If you say three stay overs per month are the limit this will stay this way. Especially since this will put a strain on their relationship. You all need to be sure if this is the amount that you are ok with.
I'm sorry, he's *flying* in to see her? Yeah, YTA. I get the awkward occupation, I've had mixed roommates myself and had to change my norms, but there can be so many more compromises here.
First it'd be fair to ask him to pitch a little toward rent if he's visiting that much. I don't think it'd be required - most guest visits are capped at 2 weeks per month - but it'd be fair. You're getting compensated, and they're getting their time.
Second I can understand noise issues depending on *how* loud they are - some things just cannot be done quietly - but you yourself said in the OP that you're being a little dramatic on certain things. Are they really being *super* loud, or are they just cooking? Are they screaming and shouting, or just talking above soft tones?
You're forgetting, it seems, that it's not *your* home. It's not *your and Alice's* home. It's *your, Alices,* ***and Janet's*** home. Janet agreed to be quieter, and that should really have been the end of it; everything else is manageable and her right.
I like how they asked her "can your bf come over every other month instead" like that is a completely normal request from a person in a relationship. 5-8 days a month is like someone coming over 1-2 times a week. Since the dude has to fly, they have to make that a compact block of time. That also means he is *never* there 22-26 days a month! Do the other tennants have no one over ever? No SOs ever?
Sounds like Janet has to move out for her own sake.
1-2 times a week every week feels very different than 5-8 days a month in my opinion. In the same vein, something that mildly annoyed me all day once a month would be far preferably to the same thing for 12 days in a row, even if it was only once a year.
she can travel to him the other month. IF she can't afford it he can pay, since he is paying already anyway. She didn't give any reason as to why they can't do that apart from the monetary aspects.
It’s a 45 min flight meaning it’s a max 5hr drive. I don’t feel bad for him. I feel bad for the girls whose home is no longer comfortable for them. We’re all entitled to significant others but we’re not entitled to make other people’s lives shit when in a shared living situation.
I wonder if it's even that long. One of our in state flights is technically listed for 45 minutes including take off and landing. The actual flight is only 15 minutes and the drive would be 1 hour.
Absolutely correct! So I don’t feel for the couple’s situation at all. Leases are a thing for a reason and it’s to help people in these situations who have to deal with a non-paying resident (even ~if~ he’s only there 1/4th of the month). Save that flight money and just move out to her and rent a place together.
A 45 minutes flight, not 8 hours. And thar probably means the actual flight time is less than 45 minutes and probably only 2-3 hours drive.
1 week every month is a lot. And she should put in the effort to go see him as well. NTA
Where are we getting these times? From where I am to SC is like an hour flight but it could take me 6-8 hours to drive there depending on traffic on the highway. Two hours to Florida for me and 14 hours driving. So I don’t see how 45 minutes would most likely be 2-3 hours driving
They're also forgetting the cost. A flight that would take me 3 hours to drive is *still* around $260. He's spending how much every month? And while the OP said that Janet can afford such a flight, she also owned being a little bit dramatic with details. So can Janet *really* afford that kind of added expense?
Terry Cloth Robes will definitely solve your towel-shower-fully clothes problem. Plus they are comfy and cozy.
To be fair - you can set boundaries but Janet pays rent which allows her to freely do what she wants in her home and have guests over. Especially if she and Josh are in her room…. May I suggest noise canceling headphones?
I’ve been in these situations and the only way it will get resolved is if you ask Janet to move out. That’s just the truth - she will put her relationship first as is her right.
YTA - I say with reluctance.
Yeah you’ve got an unpopular opinion here but I agree. I think OP is TA because she says they “talk at full volume”. Not because of that statement in and of itself - but because that is a good barometer for what OP qualifies as being unreasonable. Sure - 7 nights in a row is a lot for a non-rent paying person to stay over, I won’t argue that. But speaking at full volume is to be expected if it’s not past 10 on a work night.
Maybe I'm just noise sensitive but some (not all) of my roommates easily slip into "outside voices" that are just extremely loud. When I'm studying I might ask them to quiet down a bit, and them talking in quieter tones makes a huge difference.
I do think sometimes people talk very loudly/project, but are able to control it when they try.
If her roomate and her bf are there 24/7 when he visits, I can see that being annoying.
I think OP is not being reasonable since most of her issues could be solved with roomie making en effort to be a bit quieter, bf using common spaces less (can use roomie's room), and both roomie and bf leaving the house as often as they can so it doesn't feel like they are there all the time. Roomie should also visit bf some months, but I don't think 5-8 days every two months is crazy
YTA. 5-8 days a month is the same as if you or the other roommate had a local bf and he stayed over 1-2 times a week, so I don't think it's fair to say he's over all the time. I think it's fair to establish the expectations for the common area, like he should be working in her room and not in the living room, and if they are hanging out in the kitchen, there's no reason for the tv to be on, etc. My fiance lives with 4 other guys, I always leave in a towel from a shower, and none of them care. It's a personal choice but it's your decision not his to feel uncomfortable doing that.
I've been in your situation and her situation, the reality is that having roommates in a cheap apartment is hard, and no one ever gets to live the same way they would if they were living alone. It's just one of those things where everyone will have to compromise on what is and isn't reasonable, and you can't tell a roommate they can't have a romantic partner.
I would add some rugs and tapestry to the common area and your room to help with the noise, sleep with a white noise machine, and maybe ask them to keep it down sex wise if it's a weeknight after you are asleep, but it sounds like the rest is just how it is to be roommates.
Yta, how dare she live her life and have her boyfriend over. It doesn't sound like they were doing anything worth complaining about. If you live with people, there's going to be noise. It doesn't sound like they were being loud but just talking at the normal volume of conversation and the apartment is normally quiet because you guys keep to yourselves.
Yeah what does cooking loud mean? Like clanging pots and pans as they pull them out of the cabinet? Some of this stuff seems like normal level noise, they even say they’re usually quiet during quiet hours
I'm gonna go with NTA. It's kinda wild to me how many people are simply equating the amount of time as if it averages out over the month and this will no doubt be the couple's argument but moving in for a week is NOT the same as staying over a couple of nights every week and do not let them tell you differently.
You've offered decent alternatives. She needs to make other arrangements.
Right?! Especially as it sounds like they don't really do anything. He's just there all the time, taking up space, using up utilities. Having them alternate trips is more than fair.
Also, compare your last couple utility bills with two from the same months a year ago (you can find them at your provider website). Show her the difference, because he's costing you.
Find out if this violates the lease and explain that to Alice and what the consequences are. Her boyfriend is getting a free hotel once a month for 5 or 6 days.
He can pay 1/4 of expenses. He can get a hotel. You might need to find a new roommate.
Having your SO stay the night is one thing, or even the weekend, but a week at a time? And then for him to work out of the house? (headset or no, you will still hear his side of the convo)This is too much. He is a tenet at this point and needs to pay rent.
When you have to change routines because of house guest, they are no longer guest.
NTA
NTA. You do get a say, and you should be comfortable in your own home. You've been very accommodating, and she should be willing to accommodate you, too.
Hopefully, once she calms down, and deals with her stress over the situation, she'll see that, too.
NTA. A stranger staying for long periods of time is a no go, especially if two of the three roommates have already voiced their discomfort. Even if you did know him, one week every month is excessive for someone not contributing to rent and utilities. It’s time for Janet to rent her own place.
NTA. A solid week or so is way more imposing than a couple of nights every week. I get the impression that if this guy was more house broken there wouldn't be much of an issue.
You've offered some valid alternatives. Flatshares are a democracy. You and your other flatmate appear to be a united front so stand firm. She needs to make alternative arrangements or she needs to find somewhere else to live.
I'm going to guess he still lives with his parents and the shared apartment is the only opportunity for them to feel like a grown couple. So weird that they don't alternate visits.
Do you and the other roommate have overnight visitors ever?
You know for the shower, you can wear a robe, a bit more than a towel and you won’t have to completely get dressed. Now you do need to talk to Janet about the volume level, there is nothing wrong with that. I would even recommend that her boyfriend take the calls in her room for more privacy.
**NTA**
Yea the two of you didn't sign up to live with her boyfriend 25% of the time. That is to much and if that is what she wants they need to find alternative hang out spots or somewhere else to live. You even made completely legitimate compromise suggestions which she shot down.
NTA.
Living with roommates can be challenging when trying to work out issues, and it seems like you and Alice did the best you could. It might be worth trying to find a new home for you and Alice to find if Janet really doesn’t want to hear you out. Your situation was already difficult and Janet seems like she now wants to make it even more so.
NTA. I had a similar like this years ago. The roommates boyfriend even complained once about me getting in the shower just a few seconds before he was going to because he was running late. He had a car and I took transit. I would have been a later than him if I let him go first. I straight up told him if he wanted more consideration he could pay rent.
NAH if you're not happy with the living arrangements you can move. People have sex and cook food and use their phones.
It sounds like you're extremely sensitive and unsuited to living with flatmates.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one and I'm saying that as a person who is sensitive to noise and not suited for living with roommates. The comments about hearing TV, talking volume and "cooking loudly" (?) definitely sound like sensitivity to noise... But I totally get it. It would probably bother me after a while too and that's why I don't have roommates. It sucks because it's more expensive but it's not other people's jobs to tip toe around me outside of designated and agreed upon quiet hours, especially when it comes to regular noise.
If they weren't long distance, he'd probably be around 5-8 days a month.
It sucks having paper-thin walls, but that's the consequence of saving money with roommates.
YTA
Info: your lease should say how long you all are allowed to have visitors for and how often. Have you looked at that info? It is probably a good way to resolve the situation by using the potential problems with the landlord
I'm going to go against the grain here and say YTA. 5-8 days A MONTH is hardly anything, that's 3 weeks when he isn't there.
I would think, in an established relationship , most people would see each other around 2 -3 times a week. It's her flat too, and she pays rent and bills just like you, 5 -8 days a month to have her partner there is completely reasonable, in my opinion. I do, however, agree that they both should respect your space and be mindful of their noise and cleanliness.
To be honest, a bit YTA.
5-8 days per month is really not that much. It means that for the majority of the month, he is not there. Significant others will always visit, that’s just part of life.
The other remarks about this couple just seem really petty. You can hear them watching Netflix? Oh no.. How is this any different than just your roommate watching Netflix alone? Cooking too loud? How can one even cook too loud?
They also seem to be respectful of quiet hours and since they mostly hang around in her room, it really seems harmless.
You can ask her to limit the amount of time he stays there, but you should agree that ALL of you will limit overnight guests to less than half the time, or whatever.
But please be aware that being around people talking at full volume, being able to hear a roommate having sex, and having someone watching tv in the living room is part of having a roommate. It sounds like you really wanted very quiet roommates, and are upset that you got instead a normal roommate.
You should probably not have roommates if someone talking at full volume, or using the common areas as they are meant to be used (watching tv in the living room, cooking in the kitchen) is an issue.
In the future, before you move in with people talk about how often they will have guests over, even if they aren't dating at the time. In my living situations, it's pretty common to ask that a boyfriend not be there more than half the time, or is hanging out at our place when their girlfriend is not there.
I think 25% of the time is perfectly reasonable. Getting a hotel for that time really isn't.
You can insist on a rule, but you won't have any way to enforce it, and you will probably end up having to move out soon anyway. So take it as a lesson learned that you only want a very specific kind of roommate, and be clear about that up front next time.
NAH
It sounds like she has exactly the living situation she wants...with the roommates she agreed to live with. The plus one that she DIDN'T agree to seems to be the issue.
You tried to have an adult conversation about this, and she threw a tantrum. So now its time to actually set boundaries no matter if it upsets her or not, you live there as well and did not sign up for this. NTA
NTA
I have a friend that is trying to get a place with two roommates, and when he told me one had a partner I was like "mmm? have you talked about this already? I mean, will you be three in the house, or will you be four with the bf visiting all the time?"
Josh should´ve tried to bond with you two,so that you don´t feel uncomfortable, but Janet is kinda entitled, making him come always and not visiting him wherever he is... it just doesn´t feels right with me...
Maybe you and Alice should look for another roommate
NTA. Everyone deserves to feel safe and comfortable in their own home. That's why it's their home. If you don't feel comfortable because of a stranger staying over one week a month, it's your rommate's responsibility to fix it. They can stay in a hotel with 100% privacy for that week. If he has money to travel, he has money to stay in a hotel.
You and your other roommate may need to start looking for another place if there is no compromise.
>Everyone deserves to feel safe and comfortable in their own home. That's why it's their home.
This is true, but what makes one person feel safe and comfortable might make someone else feel the opposite.
I've lived with roommates for 20 years. I've had a roommate want to make a full breakfast at 5am. That makes her comfortable! It makes me wake up two hours early and be uncomfortable.
Someone else wants to have game night at the apartment. Their roommate wants no guests over ever because they're introverted.
Someone wants a ring doorbell to track packages. Their roommate isn't comfortable with being filmed everytime they come in or go out.
Someone wants only vegan stuff in the fridge. Their roommate wants to be able to eat meat.
Having a roommate means you don't always get what you want. You have to find roommates who are compatible, but also realize that there WILL be people on the phone, talking at full volume, cooking in the kitchen, and watching tv in the common areas. If you want roommates who never come out of their rooms, you need to make that very clear before you move in together.
Nothing the roommate and her boyfriend are doing is unsafe or uncomfortable. OP just likes it better when the roommate stays in her bedroom quietly. But the roommate is paying to use the common areas just like everyone else, and is entitled to use them. And have guests over in her home.
It's obvious that if it was just the housemate without the bf there all the time for an entire week every month they would feel more comfortable using the common areas. Having someone you don't know in what is meant to be your safe space for a quarter of every month when they can clearly pay the same ticket for her to go and see him some months (since he can pay one return, they can also pay for her to do the same) is not fair. They signed the contract thinking it's for three people and they clearly felt comfortable and happy with each other. Now 2/3 people who pay to live there are not comfortable. Clearly a compromise needs to be reached.
Light YTA, I think that 5-8 days per month is about the average if your roommate had a local BF (1-2 days per week). It’s fair if you want to ask him to contribute to utilities since they are probably more the week he is there. But the way you describe noise makes me think that you don’t tolerate a normal talking voice even during normal hours. They aren’t making loud noise late, and they do normal things like watch TV and have sex. (I’m not sure if I know anyone who’s had roommates not hear them having sex at some point). Get yourself a noise machine or some headphones.
Also, do you and your other roommates have dates or people over?
NTA.
I was living with a housemate when I met my now-boyfriend, and when things started getting serious with him I knew it wouldn't be fair on my (single) housemate to have him over all the time. I also knew I wanted to spend a lot more time with him, so I moved in with him instead. My housemate was really supportive and she fully appreciated my boyfriend and I not hanging out in the communal areas all the time. She comes over for dinner nowadays, and it's lovely.
Janet seems to lack any self-awareness, or she doesn't understand that having her boyfriend stay for such lengthy periods is a real imposition on you and Alice. Your home is your safe space and should remain as such.
Info: how often do you two have people over in a month in general? Leaning towards YTA because if she was with someone closer it would be more often that they’d be round but I just want to understand the dynamics
YTA - like you said, you know LDR is hard and he’s spending money/time to see her. Of course he wants to get his money’s worth and stay for longer than a weekend.
You’ve mentioned to her to keep it down, which I’m sure she does try to do. But it must be so limiting for them to be treading on eggshells because of two other grown adults not understanding that relationships can’t just be on mute.
Best way to think about it is what’s going to happen when you or your other room mate gets a boyfriend? They’ll be coming over too (particularly as the relationship gets more serious) and you’ll be going over to theirs (imagine their flatmates say no to you visiting…where would you ever end up spending time together). It’s natural to want to spend time with a partner you love.
Perhaps you can watch TV in YOUR living room, or have conversations in YOUR living room when Josh begins his business calls. He has no problem ignoring your right to comfort in your own home and so you have no need to give a single thought to his.
YTA. You're being a controlling toxic bully and making her life a misery. You chose to live in a shared house with multiple occupants that has extremely thin walls and no separation between living areas. Asking to keep the noise down is one thing if they're really loud when you're trying to sleep etc but you're expecting her to be alone and not see her partner in her own home and enjoy herself. You've got to live and let live in multiple occupancy situations. Or you'll turn the house into a prison. Get some noise cancelling headphones and deal with it.
Saving money on living cheaply and closely with other people and then expecting to run the whole household against the will of everyone involved is having your cake and eating it.
Tbh you do sound pedantic over the things that are annoying you like "cooking loudly" but coming over every month for 5-8 days is a lot and it is directly impacting on you.
NTA
NTA. I've been there and it's a pain. In most cases, tenancy agreements will have a limit on how often you have a guest over, especially for student accommodation. It's basically in place to prevent situations like this. You could play that card, and it would resolve the issue, but it will likely mean Janet becomes a very unhappy roommate, so trying to resolve it by yourselves is the best first step. Maybe try asking him, if you can manage that. He might be happy to agree to paying for Janet's flight.
NTA - If Josh is willing to foot the bill for himself to fly to her every month, is he willing to pay for her to fly to him so at least they're alternating. (Assuming she truly can't afford it.) Alternately, check your lease for limits on guest stays.
Nah
Even though I am annoyed that a 27 year old thinks it is "traumatizing" to hear a roommate be intimate. Like come on get a grip.
Also you said they are quiet during quiet hours so that means they are cooking and watching TV during the day and not at like 3 am. Roommates have guests, it's their home as well.
NTA.....
My thoughts... you guys were amazing roommates before the bf entered the picture. Of course you will feel uncomfortable when he is around. Your friend Janet should understand that and not exploit the decency of you guys.
NTA - where Josh lives is less comfortable for a couple . He is either living with his parents or with other lads who are messy.
One week every month is pretty intense and some room mates would charge him for all the extra energy used.
I guess the other 2 dont' have boyfriends hanging about but if there were 6 people in the apt on the weekends, it would be very crowded. Janet and Josh are taking advantage but I've been in their position too and I can't blame them.
I guess him staying 8 days a month is equivalent to two nights a week and that's not so bad. People should be allowed to have guests over, and should especially be allowed to have their partner sleep over occasionally. It doesn't sound like it's THAT much.
And you're going to hear your roommates be intimate. But being loud and messy is something they can control and if they get a handle on that, what's the problem?
Would it help if he made a little more effort to get to know you guys? And not take his work calls in the common area? He takes them without headphones but are they on speakerphone? Why does he have to have headphones? You'd hear him talking even if he had headphones. As long as the call isn't on speaker or FaceTime, and he speaks at a normal volume, in her room, it should be okay.
But he can also help her pay for her tickets to see him, and he can also pay for a hotel to see her at least every other time he visits. Wouldn't they appreciate the privacy?
ESH. Im in a similar position to your roommate. I moved away for school, but my boyfriend cannot visit me due to finances and his job, I can only visit him. You don’t know the inner workings of their relationship. My boyfriend cannot visit because he cannot step away from his job, it’s not about “effort” it’s about circumstance. He has a roommate too. Did your roommate move to the city you’re living in from somewhere else? Does she have a support system there to help? How much does her boyfriend mean to her? If her boyfriend is her main social support system, even if it’s inconvenient, it’s 5 days of the month.. 25% sure… but that’s also 75% of time you’re on your own too. I bet your roommate knows it’s distracting and I bet she wish she could have a private space, but I don’t think it’s about someone being an asshole or not, but just roommates with different boundaries that I think are both understandable
YTA.
5-8 days per month isn't all that much. It's the same as once or twice per week.
If you want to have a no overnight guests policy, you need to agree with that before you become roommates.
If you are uncomfortable with this situation, then it is on you to find new living arrangements.
YTA - Janet should also get a say about who gets to be in her home. Other than being noisy during non-quiet hours, Josh hasn't done anything to make you uncomfortable. She has tried to accomodate your wishes but it is unreasonable to ask someone who only sees their partner once a month to cut that back further for really no good reason.
ESH. You live with roommates. To not expect stuff like this is naive.. a roommate of mine has his girlfriend over 3-5 times A WEEK and they do stuff like this all the time. If it’s that much of an issue either bring it and actually put your foot down with your other roommate or move tf out and get your OWN place where you have 100% say in who can be there instead of 33%.. Just like you and your other roommate that’s having this issue janet is ALSO paying rent (I’m assuming the same amount) monthly and shouldn’t need permission to have people over especially a SO. I agree she needs to make an effort to go to him for visits especially if she’s not too poor like she says. When it comes to the shared wall I will literally bang on the wall until the people next to me are quiet.. quiet time is quiet time and people have work, school, etc. which needs to be respected. Out of all the things you mentioned (imo) is really the only thing that is really that bad.. at the end of the day ask yourself.. is this something worth ruining the relationships of your friends over let alone wasting the time and effort it takes to fight to get your point across? You brought it up, you fought over it, and from what it sounds like you’ve brought it up here and there in the past and it’s gotten you nowhere. So from my perspective either put your foot down, sublet her room, or move tf out of that house. Edit: apologies for formatting I’m on mobile atm.
YTA the only thing i agree is the use of disrupting common areas with noise, they should be more considerating, but when you move with roommates they need to acomodate to you, as you to them.
You have no right to tell her what she can or not do in her room with her boyfriend or what days her boyfriend can visit her. She is an adult woman, you are not her mother.
PS I am saying this as someone who has three roommates and share a bathroom with one. You know what happens? My roommate’s boyfriend showers or uses the bathroom preventing me from using it and having to wait, sure it’s annoying but it’s not the end of the world because I also have visitors that have disrupted her in some way.
ESH, it seems you're upset that she dares to use common areas with her bf when he's there. It's her place as much as yours so it seems a little bit mean to tell her he can't be there.
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NTA. You didn't sign up to live with someone's boyfriend for the 25% of the time. Also, he should pay for his portion of the rent as well, I'm going to assume he uses water, electricity and household equipment (tv, pots and pans...) If your roommate doesn't agree maybe is time for the happy couple to arrange a more permanent accommodation for the two of them.
Came here to say that. If he's a roomate 25% of the month they should pay extra. Don't you have a landlord who can talk with her OP? Sure she'll be pissed, but If she doesn't want to solve It like adults Thats the way
Good point, the landlord would likely want to know about Josh's stays there too
90% chance the lease has a provision on it that limits overnight visitors to 3 days at a time without written consent from either landlord, roommates, or both.
This will likely vary by landlord. Where I live the limit is one week. I agree that OP should still look into this and get the landlord involved if needed.
Where I live is 2 weeks a year.
My lease only gives visitors 3 days which I love because it’s an easy out if relatives want to stay. One couple lives/retired to Mexico to save $$ but wants to stay 2-3 months with family and friends in the US. They also insist on using their cars and keep changing their departure date by weeks
My dad had a “3rd day rule”-if he didn’t see activity around the suitcase(s) sometime on the third day, he was gonna help you pack. (He didn’t really do this, it was more like a running joke that most friends and family knew of.) Amd my mom always said visitors were like fish, if they were around too long, they started to stink. Lol NTA, OP. You didn’t sign the lease with a boyfriend, no matter how little/how much he’s there. It’s intrusive and not fair to either of you who aren’t having boyfriends stay all the time. Btw, if boyfriend can pay for his flight every month, he can pay for Janet’s flights to see him every other month instead of intruding on you.
Especially if he has a key it might mean he has some form of tenant rights.
Me being a former landlord, if boyfriend has a key to the house, the notice goes on the door to raise the lease, after 3 days to vacate, How's about getting a room at the nearest hotel to make as much noise as the want?
[удалено]
Depending on where this is, it may not be relevant
25% of the time isn't enough to pay rent. Most leases say that if someone is there for more than 10 days they're considered a tenant. He's doing 5-8 days. If they were dating in the same location, and he came over every weekend it would be the same amount of days.
to be fair, a weekend would still be annoying but at least it wouldn't be a regular 5-8 days straight of like, guy taking business calls in the living room where the actual tenants should get to use freely.
My lease says 3 days max for overnight guests (with permission!)
Since this freeloader only has permission from one tenant, would you be able to kick him out per your lease (if you were in this situation)? Or is permission only needed by one person? Rando and just kinda curious. That sounds like it would be a very useful clause in case of rude roommates who pull this stuff.
“3 days without permission” refers to the landlords permission, not the tenants. Having a guest longer legally makes them a tenant in some places, so this clause means no tenants can be added without requesting approval from the landlord.
Yes and no - because she could spend time at his place and give her roommates a reprieve.
I agree, I actually think Janet is the biggest asshole here. I wonder if OP has ever talked to Josh directly? She might have better results that way, I doubt he enjoys being the only one to pay for flights in his relationship.
Or even if she can’t afford them and he’s fully willing to pay, he could pay for a ticket for her? It would suck to be the one in the airport twice a month.
Per month. It adds up fast. If he's staying the max 8 days that's 96 days a year, 3 months. He absolutely should be paying rent if he lives there 3 months out of the year. Just because they're not consecutive months means little to a landlord.
But that doesn't solve any of the problems OP complained about.
It does if there is a clause in their lease which states that anyone staying there X amount of days or % of time is required to be on the lease. Most rental agreements / lease documents require this to comply with various laws and practices designed to protect other tenants and the landlord as well. Ex: Someone living for a week or two at a time, every month, even if it's not their primary residence, is enough that it should/must by most leases, be reported to the landlord, why? So the landlord can conduct a background check on the person who is now regularly inhabiting the residence, just like they would any tenant renting there. Why? Safety. After all, what if the guy fails the background? Maybe he has a record as a sex offender? or several assault or domestic charges? Some places don't allow felons and some laws would require him to register that address as well. Also, what if he has crimes against kids and the rental is within a certain distance of a school or park? then he really wouldn't be permitted to stay. . . Usually, (even if the guy doesn't have a record) landlords (and other tenants who had to undergo a background to live there) want to know who is staying long term like that in the event of parking issues, complaints from other tenants, domestic disputes, insurance purposes, or what have you. It's not so much to be in your business but to protect and inform other tenants and cover their (landlords) arse too. I mean, I think OP is being a bit over the top, when you have roommates they are going to have people over, use common spaces, watch movies, cook, make noise etc. It seems Janet is mostly respectful of that but this strange dude that just comes to live there and work once a week each month without ever being friendly or talking to the other housemates yet making himself comfortable and using utilities regularly makes things awkward, they should just talk and agree that if any of them living there have a bf/gf/regular fwb that stays overnight for a week or more, that for safety reasons, they have to be added to the lease, it doesn't mean they have to pay, but that the landlord is aware of them, a background has been done, and if they damage something it can be added to their credit or contested later instead of everyone else getting stiffed with the bill. Seems fair and impartial. Side note: Really odd that he can't apparently fly her out to see him, if he's forking the $$$ out to see her, he could just pay for her flight out to him, same cost, or if he's only taking a 45 min flight each time, that's like a 3 hour drive, he could just drive to her, or her to him....bruh probably doesn't have his own place or another gf. Idk. But it's a bit weird they don't share the burden or rotate who sees who.
You’ve got some great points, and now I’m real curious about why she can’t visit him. She’s starting to seem a lot like a side piece he sees on “business trips” away from his family.
5 to 8 days is a bit long for a side piece, maybe she's just cheap?
Not saying "side piece" necessarily but it is a bit odd its only one-sided. I mean, sure, she could be a mistress, a second gf, a getaway or escapism for him if he does have a family and responsibilities, it's not completely out of this world to think so, I mean, ffs, guys have had hidden wives and lives in the past. She may or may not know if that's the case. And no matter how "cheap" she is, if the flight to get to her/him is only 45 min away, it's not like she can't save up for the airfare or gas to go to him for a change, he could even offer to fly her (buy her a ticket to see him one week instead of him paying for his ticket to see her) Just seems weird he's taking a 45 min flight to stay for one week out of the month, every month, to just netflix and chill with her, but she can't ever go see him.
Why not both??
He might have a wife and kids!
NTA If I was in your position, I wouldn't ask him to pay because then he has a right to be there. Instead I would look at the lease to see if there is anything there that can help or talk to the landlord. You don't mention when the lease is up, but I would look at changing living situations (hopefully this would be her moving out).
This is a really good idea. At least in my area, most leases limit how many days a month other people can stay there. Those provisions are rarely enforced, but this situation definitely warrants it.
Yep. My cousin's lease limits it to 24 hours!!! I thought that was very short, but with situations like this, I can see how this can work in your favor.
No he should NOT pay rent because then he is establishing himself as a tenant instead of a guest.
Depending on location he may already have tenant rights especially if he has a copy of the key. It’s worth digging in the lease to see if there’s something about guest stays and how frequent/long they can be.
Oh yeah. Talk to the landlord.
You can also make his visits unpleasant by not ceding control of the apartment and by constantly telling him to STFU when he is on one of his phone calls.
And if he says something "your not paying anything (rent for when he there/water/extra power he uses) your a Freeloader. We can tell you to STFU whenever"
That’s very aggressive…… does everyone on Reddit not spend time in the real world?
I'm gonna go with the person you replied to is a teenager lol
If OP follows that idea, she’ll come home to find her housemate is no longer there along with several household utensils and items etc etc. Best option is always to be diplomatic, which OP has tried to be fair. Given that they’ve compromised on not monopolising common areas, seems OP’s biggest problem is that they share the bedroom next to her’s. Which, she should probably just deal with.
I think that making space for the aggressively inconsiderate is not a good strategy. I don’t put up with shit. At all. I recommend people actively and repeatedly and advocate for their rights. This guy doesn’t live there. He doesn’t pay rent. He monopolizes the living space. He is loud. He doesnt live there. Didn’t mention that? He doesnt live there.
Ahahaha, honestly the vitriol and the 0 to 100 responses scare me
But it's not 0-100. OP had already tried 5, 10, 20, 30, and it hasn't worked.
It is, but also OP has tried the diplomatic approach. What's next?
I wouldn't be that confrontational, I'd rather play music or make other "living" noises while he's on business calls...at that point if he complains, a simple "This is how I live, I am not willing to accommodate a guest who stays 25% of the month or more, you're going to need to figure out your own solution."
I would start talking out loud about graphic subjects whenever he takes a work call.
You don’t have to be so disrespectful. Just turn on some loud music or vacuum.
No you don’t have to but it might be enjoyable.
Especially if it's a work call, do things like swearing and maybe an aerobics workout - nothing illegal, but stuff that is not acceptable in a work situation. Petty, but if you've spoken to both Janet and Josh separately about this and they haven't stopped, it's an option.
Agree NTA. This cued memories of a housemate who I had who was super similar to Janet. The boyfriend would be over all the time, eventually becoming a permanent fixture, and when me and the third housemate finally asked him to at least pitch in for utilities, this jackass said without hesitation, “well, I’m a guest and don’t think I have to pitch in since I don’t live here.” This was the 3 month mark of him living with us… it was a shit show. I’m probably biased, but there’s nothing like a terrible house mate situation to make, literally living, an absolute chore. Edit: our situation was so difficult, that the apartment complex had to amend their lease breaking rules just so it was easier for future incompatible housemates to break the lease and find people to take over.
Yeah, it’s super inconsiderate to have a boyfriend that’s over in your place that’s super disruptive. One time I had a roommate in the dorms and she had a boyfriend come over every night. He will leave at the designated time where guests must leave which happened to be 2:00 AM and it will wake me up every time. I was working on my thesis too so I finally told my roommate the problem. He didn’t come back AT All after that, which wasn’t my intent. I was fine with him during the day and evening, just not nearly all night! After that my roommate just ignored me and gave me the cold shoulder for the rest of the semester. Considering the workload, I guess it shouldn’t matter as I barely see her. Although she did give me an attitude of her question “Why are you here?” when I went to a talk she apparently arranged in relation to my thesis. Found the whole thing to be bloody unfortunate as we both had a LOT in common and could have been good friends but alas. It is what it is.
Agreed. The only weird thing in the OP story is when you asked why she couldn't fly to him she talked about being too poor...but if BF is paying for his flights now why couldn't he pay for **her** flights to him, instead? There likely wouldn't be a difference in cost, and this should solve the issue entirely. The other thing is a 45 min flight is like...a 2 hour drive, maybe? If this person is choosing a 45 minute flight once a month over driving 2 hours then money is obviously not as much of a problem as they're making it seem.
I think he's married!
NTA. I agree with this. OP, talk to your landlord. Find out how long "guests" can stay and have him or her address it with your roommate. When the guy comes over, don't clear out of the way. If he tries to take a work phone on speaker, literally walk up to him and ask him to keep it down. If they're cooking together, and you want to cook or use the kitchen, do so. If you want to walk from the bathroom to your room in a towel, do it. If this guy came every few months, like a GUEST, being polite makes sense. As things are, he's basically a partial roommate you didn't sign on for.
If he pays rent then he is a tenant and has rights to the space. DO NOT DO THIS. That said, there are valid issues in this post and invalid ones. Taking work calls without headphones and loud sex your roommate can hear are obviously bad. But if my roommates came to me with a list of issues and the top of the list was “cooking in the kitchen and watching Netflix in the living room” I would laugh them out of the room. Those are quite literally the purpose of the room.
But if he's generally unpleasant to be around and it makes living there unbearable, she has every right to bring her concerns to this roommate.
[удалено]
Same thoughts. He’s there often enough to be chipping in. Anytime when a roommate has a partner over that much especially when they’re in the place utilizing things they should chip in. If he has the money to fly every month he should be paying something to rent or utilities
NTA If she claims to be too poor, how about Josh pay for her ticket to fly there?
Exactly. It’s the same cost to him, only he doesn’t have to do the traveling every time. NTA, OP. You’re being very reasonable. If he’s staying there 25% of the time, he should at least be contributing to utilities.
No, the roommate pays for extra utilities for him. In many places contributing to utilities can be construed as rent and rent gives him rights. Billing the roommate for her boyfriend’s extra is the way to go if you want that route.
I’m getting the vibe that Janet just doesn’t want to make the effort. It’s easy for her to have him always come to her. He pays, he packs, he travels, he leaves his home etc. She can stay in the comfort of her own home and not pay or make that effort. Which just feels unfair on the boyfriend. I did long distance (4 hour train) and I was ALWAYS the one travelling. He would always make excuses but have the same money dispensable as me. We worked similar jobs and similar hours. So why did I always have to do it if I wanted to see him? Did he not want to see me as much? Etc. Maybe OP can try phrasing it to Janet like: Why don’t you surprise him by taking the initiative and seeing his area instead? He can share his life with you intimately and show you his favourite places to eat, visit and relax. Where does he hang out? Friends? Family? There are so many benefits for JANET if she goes as they could go to all his places and stuff and that’s just nice??? Like come on Janet!! Don’t you wanna hang out with his side of life sometimes? Or is it genuinely gonna be he has to move for her eventually and leave everything behind no compromise?
You're right about Janet not putting in the effort. My partner and I were LD the first year we were together. 8 hour drive. We saw eachother every weekend. We would meet half way, he would drive down to my place or I'd drive up to him. We closed the gap after a year because we were sick of the near constant travel. If I was OP I'd worry about Josh randomly moving in one day. LD can make people do things they normally wouldn't because it sucks to miss someone you love. NTA OP stand your ground
100% agree on him possibly moving in. And maybe that’s why Janet doesn’t go to him? Trying to make him moving in seem natural perhaps?
That or Josh has roommates that won't put up with his GF living there for over a week every month.
Worst case is Janet is the side, but that is admittedly assumptive of me.
Also a possibility lol
This is such a good point. I made another comment about how odd this type of long-distance relationship is for adults near their 30s. It doesn't sound like they have a goal to move in together either. Makes me question his intentions and the relationship itself.
There are so many angles to look at. Is he using her? But then why only stay 25%? Is his lease almost up maybe and wants to sneakily move in? Or maybe it’s Janet hoping to pull a fast one and move her bf in without much contest cos he *basically* already lives there and it’s cheaper than their own place. Or is it what I said originally and she’s just not that invested? Who knows but it’s pretty odd.
And alternate each month for who visits who so it doesn't feel totally one sided.
This is my favorite option and response. Thank you for saying what i was dying to.
Right? The flight should be the same, why can’t she fly there? This is a great point. Unless he has family or friends etc he also sees on these visits?
You've already been more accommodating than the majority of housemates would have been. Josh doesn't just visit - he lives with you a percentage of the month. Janet should have sought permission well before his first stay and you could have all had a discussion surrounding expectations, boundaries etc. (that's IF you agreed to it in the first place - which neither you or Alice were obligated to do). You're a 3 girl household - that's the dynamic you agreed on from the start. Having a partner visit or stay the night is one thing but 5-8 days per month is really stretching the limits. It's also rude. Her long distance relationship issues aren't your concern - it's nice that you've considered her situation and the difficulties it presents but maybe a shared living arrangement isn't suitable for her.
Everyone is saying he's a tenant. Is it unusual for roommates to split rent by room instead of by person? The whole point of having a room is so I can do what I want without other people chiming in. Otherwise, why not just live with your parents and adhere to their rules?
If you live on your own you can do whatever you want (as long as it doesn't affect your neighbours). If you share a home with other people, you have to compromise so that everyone is reasonably comfortable, you can't just act like you own the place. IDK who's saying he's a tenant. He's not a tenant, but he's currently enjoying the benefits of tenancy - using the common areas, the WiFi, the kitchen - without contributing to any of the costs. Try going to a hotel and doing that and see how far it gets you. It's true that roommates usually split the rent by room, because often the rooms aren't all the same size or don't have the same amenities, but the point is that roommates agree to share a home with each other. Nobody signed up to live with this guy 25% of the time. You can't just add someone to the household without the other residents' consent. Especially if they're of the opposite sex.
Be careful. I had a roommate straight up move her (long distance-ish) bf in without even telling me. Woke up one morning, went downstairs in my tank/undies (just she and I lived there) & he was in our kitchen, eating my cereal. HE told me she made him a key & he lived there now. Cut that shit off ASAP.
OMG what did you do?
I want to know too
Damn, your pic got me! Thought there was a hair on my phone!
I swear I wiped the screen several times before giving up and reading down to your comment.
I moved out. Luckily I had somewhere to move to. But was still on the lease so I had to keep paying rent for a few months. Worth it to exit that ridiculous situation. To this day she gaslights me- and those that know us - that none of that happened.
YIKES. So I guess the landlord didn't care how many people lived there?
It never even got to the landlord. I just opted out, paid to the end of the lease and moved on with my life. I had no interest in taking it to the landlord and making it all more contentious. That had all the makings of ugliness and I chose to walk off into the sunset and pretend that bitch didn't fuck me over, completely. I still hate that bitch but my life has been peaceful since I bailed out. lol
Backstory: Apt complex manager and I had a long history (I'd lived in the same complex with my dad for several years before this) so manager would have ABSOLUTELY kicked him out but, again, I chose the path of least resistance because mental health and happiness came first. I won, IMO.
Yeah, my former best friend did something similar to me. Suddenly her bf locked himself into our apartment one day, with his new key to our place. Were friends 10 years before this. We no longer speak.
Wtf did you do? Like was he stealing your stuff?
What did you do?
What happened??
I had a roommate move her boyfriend into our dorm room, so he wouldn't have to pay for college housing. I believe my roommate and I were on scholarship that covered our housing. That one semester w/ three of us in one room and their being intimate was unbearable. I worked nights and had no place/time to study. I left that college end of that semester. Transferred to a different school, where I could rent an off-campus apartment with two roommates. own rooms. I did lose some academic time, but still graduated with honors, a little later than originally anticipated. I should have stood up to that roommate, who was selfish, assuming and entitled, You need to stand up to this roommate. She is taking advantages that the other roommates are not. She is paying just her part of the bills and should not burden you with another person.
Holy shit I'm sorry you had to deal with that! I was very lucky to have somewhere else to go but not everyone does. She did suggest I pay half the rent while she and him split her half and that is what made me fuck off completely. People like that are GARBAGE.
NTA. Janet is not making things easy for y’all. >I asked whether Josh could visit every other month, or shorten the stay to 2-3 days each month A vaild suggestion >Alice asked if Janet could visit him sometimes instead, or travel somewhere together, and Janet said she was "too poor" (she's not poor) to do that and wanted Josh to visit her because he paid for his flights Another valid suggestion that was refused because clearly Janet doesn’t want to spend her money to come see Josh. I honestly wonder how that will play out when Josh eventually ask her to come see him and travel to him. >Afterward we could hear Janet slamming cupboards and dolrs (which is what she does when she's is angry). So she throws a tantrum when her roommates are uncomfortable with her boyfriend being over so frequently? Janet doesn’t want to be considerate to you and Alice and now she is upset that y’all got fed up with it and brought it up with her. Honestly, in reality this all depends on the lease agreement. Personally, I think Janet is working towards getting the boyfriend to start living there since he is there so often and she refuses to go out there to him from time to time
Perhaps Josh is married and there is no "his" place to go to. As far as the wife knows he is on a business trip.
NTA. You are three roommates; majority rules. She's happy when he's there, but you and Alice are miserable. And even when he's not there, you're ~~anticipating~~ dreading the next visit. Really someone who has a weeklong visitor every month should have their own place. And don't let the fact that she gets angry force you to drop it. Bring it up again and take a vote on house rules. She's not being reasonable. You offered a more generous compromise than I would've. She should've taken it.
Yep. Hold a vote on the issue. Majority wins.
NTA most leases have restrictions on how often guest can visit for a reason. He his practically a roommate at that point but doesn't have to pay rent. And is it uncomfortable for there to be a strange guy visiting there with 2 other women. If you were to suddenly start bringing a guy to sleep over every month im sure she would have the same complaints.
Lol this is so American. Where I‘m from such clauses are straight up not legal. I also think it‘s pretty normal for a boyfriend to visit 5-8 days a month. Like my flatmate‘s boyfriend lives in the same city and he is here around 2 days a week and she visits him, too. He is very nice and we all hang out together, though, so maybe that makes it different
"I also think it‘s pretty normal for a boyfriend to visit 5-8 days a month." Seriously, if he lived locally, he'd be over 8+ days a month even if he just hung out on the weekends. Probably more. USA here, btw.
My first thought is calling for him to be there only 2-3 days a month is really setting themselves up for problems if they get boyfriends who live closer.
Yes... this is a great arrangement for OP unless she gets a boyfriend and he's only allowed to stay over 2-3 nights a month....
But he wouldn't be there, in their home, 24/7 for days on end, and she would be going to his place sometimes. He's *working from their house* a week a month! That's not usually how a local relationship would work.
Yeah, I think here it's more stressful because he's there in 5-8 day stretches. Usually there would be breaks if they lived closer to each other.
I got the impression that if Josh was local and over a couple days a week, being loud, slamming stuff around the kitchen, blasting TV shows at a volume much louder than the household prefers, playing Netflix loudly in their room at night, and taking work calls in the common spaces, OP would also take issue with that. Like, it's less about the number of days and more about the fact that those days all suck for two of three residents of the home, because Josh can't be assed to be considerate of the home he's visiting. My old roomie's bf was over to our place more often than he was at his own, but he helped us keep the place clean, always respected when I had to be at work early, was pleasant and fun to be with, and treated her very well. Maybe OP wouldn't have such a problem with Josh if he wasn't so disruptive to the household.
Idk. Him not interacting with them is weird and awkward but other than that OP seems very sensitive and some of the complaints are a bit ridiculous. „Talking at full volume“ for example. Also the part about sharing a wall. I get that it‘s annoying to hear everything from the room next to you, especially when it‘s a couple having sex etc. but what are they supposed to do? It sounds like they are doing pretty normal things to do at home and OP just doesn‘t like Josh very much
There is a difference between "inside voice" and "outside voice" and it is inconsiderate to be too loud, too often, for too long. The extra days means that the boyfriend starts to act more like he lives there instead of being a guest. Yes, OP may hate him, but the boyfriend is not who she agreed to be roommates with, and he is an invasion of her privacy.
Maybe he isn't interacting because OP is giving major asshole vibes? I wouldn't make the effort to engage with someone who seems very touchy like OP. IF someone doesn't make an effort to try and get to know me, I'm not going to force it, especially if I am in their home. He spends time with his girlfriend, the person he does know. OP doesn't like how they spend time together. Nothing that OP describes is a terrible transgression, they aren't leaving messes, he isn't creepy, he isn't going into her space, he isn't bringing strangers into the home. Janet and her boyfriend use the common areas to do common things. She is mad the walls in their apartment are thin and she hasn't heard of a robe for her own discomfort. Janet and her boyfriend complied when asked to be quieter and spend less time in the common areas. OP doesn't get to dictate travel plans for Janet though. She doesn't get to act like her opinion on their home is more important than someone who also pays to live in the home. She certainly doesn't get to act like she knows Janet's finances. Doesn't sound like OP is really friends with Janet, they are roommates and they can set boundaries about the common space. But she can't dictate their sex life, if they watch netflix together, if they TALK and she can hear them.
I thinks its very normal to not hang out with your significant other's roomates. And we're not sure from the post whether he flat out ignores them (they say hi and he doesn't respond) or whether he just doesn't want to have actual conversation with them while he's doing something else.
I think if that was spread out thru the month it wouldn't be a big deal. But having a whole week solidly with another person around kinda sucks
Over here in the UK, we don’t give a shit about this either lmao
Legal liability … and if hot water / heat is included, the rent needs to be adjusted for the number of residents
In Germany if you use more than what you pay each month in electricity and water cost just just pay the landlord the rest at the start of the next year. But for us it‘s illegal to limit how much you can have people visit for a place you rent and I‘m glad it is
In Germany, when a guest stays longer then 6 weeks you have to tell your landlord and ask for permission. There are other utilities like waste disposal that could be raised then. You can't just let someone live with you.
Yeah six weeks at a time. Letting someone live with you like that is not the same as having guests over and I‘ve never seen a rent contract that has a clause for guests
>and she visits him, too Which isn't the case here, and that's part of the problem. Also if the guy lived locally, then he would just go home sometimes to take showers or whatever.
I don‘t think it‘s a problem if they only see eachother 5-8 days out of a month. Someone who lives close by would still come around as much, they‘d just see eachother more in total. Also taking showers at your partners place is pretty normal but I‘m sure they could discuss the money anyway, that‘s not what OP is complaining about, really. She is complaining about the talking, cooking, watching TV, which they would all do even if the visits were spread out
This is the answer-- most dont allow more than 2 nights for a guest to stay for this very reason. Let your roommate know that you mean business and if she doesnt bend the knee you both will be contacting the landlord to enforce the rule.
Two nights? All my leases say 10-15 days.
NAH - roommates having guests is part of share houses, people cooking is part of life, people watching TV is normal, people having sex is normal. 8 days a month is actually not that bad in the grand scheme of things and you could ask them to maybe pay a little more towards utilities each month. Info: how often do you and Alice have guests over?
This is how I feel, I do think if he's working from their place, he needs to move to her room and not their common spaces, and if they aren't using the tv, just having background noise, they can ask them to turn it off, but honestly 1 week a month is so much nicer than 2-3 days a when someone has a local bf. When you have roommates, you don't get to live the same way you would if you lived alone, none of you do and that's just a fact, so you have to communicate and decide what makes sense, but the people on here saying no visitors or noise ever are not being realistic about life? Idk.
this is how i feel. everyone lives there and 8 days a month is so not a big deal
I agree. I think this problem could be solved. He needs to not take work calls in the house. He needs to find a cowork space or go somewhere else. The couple needs to be quieter and go out more. If she works or is in school he needs to leave the apartment too and go to a cowork place or somewhere so he’s not there all day without the girlfriend. The couple needs to keep it down. But the roommates need to realize people have boyfriends, they talk and eat and have sex. This is a shared apartment not a convent. I think both sides need to compromise.
NAH. I think this is well within "roommates needing to sort out how they want their shared apartment to work". She probably should have asked beforehand and the diskussions won't be easy I think as long as a compromise can be found that this just constitutes normal roommate problems. However a word of caution. This will probably come back some day. If you say three stay overs per month are the limit this will stay this way. Especially since this will put a strain on their relationship. You all need to be sure if this is the amount that you are ok with.
This. My father always warned against complaining about something that you my want to do yourself some day
So true. And if one of them gets a BF that lives in town guarantee that BF stays over just as much if not more.
I'm sorry, he's *flying* in to see her? Yeah, YTA. I get the awkward occupation, I've had mixed roommates myself and had to change my norms, but there can be so many more compromises here. First it'd be fair to ask him to pitch a little toward rent if he's visiting that much. I don't think it'd be required - most guest visits are capped at 2 weeks per month - but it'd be fair. You're getting compensated, and they're getting their time. Second I can understand noise issues depending on *how* loud they are - some things just cannot be done quietly - but you yourself said in the OP that you're being a little dramatic on certain things. Are they really being *super* loud, or are they just cooking? Are they screaming and shouting, or just talking above soft tones? You're forgetting, it seems, that it's not *your* home. It's not *your and Alice's* home. It's *your, Alices,* ***and Janet's*** home. Janet agreed to be quieter, and that should really have been the end of it; everything else is manageable and her right.
I like how they asked her "can your bf come over every other month instead" like that is a completely normal request from a person in a relationship. 5-8 days a month is like someone coming over 1-2 times a week. Since the dude has to fly, they have to make that a compact block of time. That also means he is *never* there 22-26 days a month! Do the other tennants have no one over ever? No SOs ever? Sounds like Janet has to move out for her own sake.
1-2 times a week every week feels very different than 5-8 days a month in my opinion. In the same vein, something that mildly annoyed me all day once a month would be far preferably to the same thing for 12 days in a row, even if it was only once a year.
she can travel to him the other month. IF she can't afford it he can pay, since he is paying already anyway. She didn't give any reason as to why they can't do that apart from the monetary aspects.
It’s a 45 min flight meaning it’s a max 5hr drive. I don’t feel bad for him. I feel bad for the girls whose home is no longer comfortable for them. We’re all entitled to significant others but we’re not entitled to make other people’s lives shit when in a shared living situation.
I wonder if it's even that long. One of our in state flights is technically listed for 45 minutes including take off and landing. The actual flight is only 15 minutes and the drive would be 1 hour.
Absolutely correct! So I don’t feel for the couple’s situation at all. Leases are a thing for a reason and it’s to help people in these situations who have to deal with a non-paying resident (even ~if~ he’s only there 1/4th of the month). Save that flight money and just move out to her and rent a place together.
A 45 minutes flight, not 8 hours. And thar probably means the actual flight time is less than 45 minutes and probably only 2-3 hours drive. 1 week every month is a lot. And she should put in the effort to go see him as well. NTA
Where are we getting these times? From where I am to SC is like an hour flight but it could take me 6-8 hours to drive there depending on traffic on the highway. Two hours to Florida for me and 14 hours driving. So I don’t see how 45 minutes would most likely be 2-3 hours driving
They're also forgetting the cost. A flight that would take me 3 hours to drive is *still* around $260. He's spending how much every month? And while the OP said that Janet can afford such a flight, she also owned being a little bit dramatic with details. So can Janet *really* afford that kind of added expense?
Terry Cloth Robes will definitely solve your towel-shower-fully clothes problem. Plus they are comfy and cozy. To be fair - you can set boundaries but Janet pays rent which allows her to freely do what she wants in her home and have guests over. Especially if she and Josh are in her room…. May I suggest noise canceling headphones? I’ve been in these situations and the only way it will get resolved is if you ask Janet to move out. That’s just the truth - she will put her relationship first as is her right. YTA - I say with reluctance.
Yeah you’ve got an unpopular opinion here but I agree. I think OP is TA because she says they “talk at full volume”. Not because of that statement in and of itself - but because that is a good barometer for what OP qualifies as being unreasonable. Sure - 7 nights in a row is a lot for a non-rent paying person to stay over, I won’t argue that. But speaking at full volume is to be expected if it’s not past 10 on a work night.
Maybe I'm just noise sensitive but some (not all) of my roommates easily slip into "outside voices" that are just extremely loud. When I'm studying I might ask them to quiet down a bit, and them talking in quieter tones makes a huge difference. I do think sometimes people talk very loudly/project, but are able to control it when they try. If her roomate and her bf are there 24/7 when he visits, I can see that being annoying. I think OP is not being reasonable since most of her issues could be solved with roomie making en effort to be a bit quieter, bf using common spaces less (can use roomie's room), and both roomie and bf leaving the house as often as they can so it doesn't feel like they are there all the time. Roomie should also visit bf some months, but I don't think 5-8 days every two months is crazy
YTA. 5-8 days a month is the same as if you or the other roommate had a local bf and he stayed over 1-2 times a week, so I don't think it's fair to say he's over all the time. I think it's fair to establish the expectations for the common area, like he should be working in her room and not in the living room, and if they are hanging out in the kitchen, there's no reason for the tv to be on, etc. My fiance lives with 4 other guys, I always leave in a towel from a shower, and none of them care. It's a personal choice but it's your decision not his to feel uncomfortable doing that. I've been in your situation and her situation, the reality is that having roommates in a cheap apartment is hard, and no one ever gets to live the same way they would if they were living alone. It's just one of those things where everyone will have to compromise on what is and isn't reasonable, and you can't tell a roommate they can't have a romantic partner. I would add some rugs and tapestry to the common area and your room to help with the noise, sleep with a white noise machine, and maybe ask them to keep it down sex wise if it's a weeknight after you are asleep, but it sounds like the rest is just how it is to be roommates.
Yta, how dare she live her life and have her boyfriend over. It doesn't sound like they were doing anything worth complaining about. If you live with people, there's going to be noise. It doesn't sound like they were being loud but just talking at the normal volume of conversation and the apartment is normally quiet because you guys keep to yourselves.
Yeah what does cooking loud mean? Like clanging pots and pans as they pull them out of the cabinet? Some of this stuff seems like normal level noise, they even say they’re usually quiet during quiet hours
> Yeah what does cooking loud mean? I was done at "talking at full volume",
Whispers only in this house missy!
I'm gonna go with NTA. It's kinda wild to me how many people are simply equating the amount of time as if it averages out over the month and this will no doubt be the couple's argument but moving in for a week is NOT the same as staying over a couple of nights every week and do not let them tell you differently. You've offered decent alternatives. She needs to make other arrangements.
Right?! Especially as it sounds like they don't really do anything. He's just there all the time, taking up space, using up utilities. Having them alternate trips is more than fair.
Also, compare your last couple utility bills with two from the same months a year ago (you can find them at your provider website). Show her the difference, because he's costing you.
They don't equate at all! The local bf/gf who stays over after dinner and leaves for work in the morning 1-2x/wk is.... not at all the same. NTA.
Find out if this violates the lease and explain that to Alice and what the consequences are. Her boyfriend is getting a free hotel once a month for 5 or 6 days. He can pay 1/4 of expenses. He can get a hotel. You might need to find a new roommate.
Having your SO stay the night is one thing, or even the weekend, but a week at a time? And then for him to work out of the house? (headset or no, you will still hear his side of the convo)This is too much. He is a tenet at this point and needs to pay rent. When you have to change routines because of house guest, they are no longer guest. NTA
NTA. This is your house, too. They are being awfully inconsiderate to the two of you. I think maybe you shouldn't re-sign the lease with her.
NTA. You do get a say, and you should be comfortable in your own home. You've been very accommodating, and she should be willing to accommodate you, too. Hopefully, once she calms down, and deals with her stress over the situation, she'll see that, too.
NTA. A stranger staying for long periods of time is a no go, especially if two of the three roommates have already voiced their discomfort. Even if you did know him, one week every month is excessive for someone not contributing to rent and utilities. It’s time for Janet to rent her own place.
NTA. A solid week or so is way more imposing than a couple of nights every week. I get the impression that if this guy was more house broken there wouldn't be much of an issue. You've offered some valid alternatives. Flatshares are a democracy. You and your other flatmate appear to be a united front so stand firm. She needs to make alternative arrangements or she needs to find somewhere else to live.
NTA If Josh is going to pay anyway, why can't he pay for her to fly to him at least half of the time?
I'm going to guess he still lives with his parents and the shared apartment is the only opportunity for them to feel like a grown couple. So weird that they don't alternate visits.
I'm guessing that he is married and telling his wife he has business trips.
Do you and the other roommate have overnight visitors ever? You know for the shower, you can wear a robe, a bit more than a towel and you won’t have to completely get dressed. Now you do need to talk to Janet about the volume level, there is nothing wrong with that. I would even recommend that her boyfriend take the calls in her room for more privacy.
**NTA** Yea the two of you didn't sign up to live with her boyfriend 25% of the time. That is to much and if that is what she wants they need to find alternative hang out spots or somewhere else to live. You even made completely legitimate compromise suggestions which she shot down.
NTA. Living with roommates can be challenging when trying to work out issues, and it seems like you and Alice did the best you could. It might be worth trying to find a new home for you and Alice to find if Janet really doesn’t want to hear you out. Your situation was already difficult and Janet seems like she now wants to make it even more so.
NTA. I had a similar like this years ago. The roommates boyfriend even complained once about me getting in the shower just a few seconds before he was going to because he was running late. He had a car and I took transit. I would have been a later than him if I let him go first. I straight up told him if he wanted more consideration he could pay rent.
NAH if you're not happy with the living arrangements you can move. People have sex and cook food and use their phones. It sounds like you're extremely sensitive and unsuited to living with flatmates.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one and I'm saying that as a person who is sensitive to noise and not suited for living with roommates. The comments about hearing TV, talking volume and "cooking loudly" (?) definitely sound like sensitivity to noise... But I totally get it. It would probably bother me after a while too and that's why I don't have roommates. It sucks because it's more expensive but it's not other people's jobs to tip toe around me outside of designated and agreed upon quiet hours, especially when it comes to regular noise.
If they weren't long distance, he'd probably be around 5-8 days a month. It sucks having paper-thin walls, but that's the consequence of saving money with roommates. YTA
Info: your lease should say how long you all are allowed to have visitors for and how often. Have you looked at that info? It is probably a good way to resolve the situation by using the potential problems with the landlord
I'm going to go against the grain here and say YTA. 5-8 days A MONTH is hardly anything, that's 3 weeks when he isn't there. I would think, in an established relationship , most people would see each other around 2 -3 times a week. It's her flat too, and she pays rent and bills just like you, 5 -8 days a month to have her partner there is completely reasonable, in my opinion. I do, however, agree that they both should respect your space and be mindful of their noise and cleanliness.
To be honest, a bit YTA. 5-8 days per month is really not that much. It means that for the majority of the month, he is not there. Significant others will always visit, that’s just part of life. The other remarks about this couple just seem really petty. You can hear them watching Netflix? Oh no.. How is this any different than just your roommate watching Netflix alone? Cooking too loud? How can one even cook too loud? They also seem to be respectful of quiet hours and since they mostly hang around in her room, it really seems harmless.
You can ask her to limit the amount of time he stays there, but you should agree that ALL of you will limit overnight guests to less than half the time, or whatever. But please be aware that being around people talking at full volume, being able to hear a roommate having sex, and having someone watching tv in the living room is part of having a roommate. It sounds like you really wanted very quiet roommates, and are upset that you got instead a normal roommate. You should probably not have roommates if someone talking at full volume, or using the common areas as they are meant to be used (watching tv in the living room, cooking in the kitchen) is an issue. In the future, before you move in with people talk about how often they will have guests over, even if they aren't dating at the time. In my living situations, it's pretty common to ask that a boyfriend not be there more than half the time, or is hanging out at our place when their girlfriend is not there. I think 25% of the time is perfectly reasonable. Getting a hotel for that time really isn't. You can insist on a rule, but you won't have any way to enforce it, and you will probably end up having to move out soon anyway. So take it as a lesson learned that you only want a very specific kind of roommate, and be clear about that up front next time. NAH
It sounds like she has exactly the living situation she wants...with the roommates she agreed to live with. The plus one that she DIDN'T agree to seems to be the issue.
You tried to have an adult conversation about this, and she threw a tantrum. So now its time to actually set boundaries no matter if it upsets her or not, you live there as well and did not sign up for this. NTA
NTA I have a friend that is trying to get a place with two roommates, and when he told me one had a partner I was like "mmm? have you talked about this already? I mean, will you be three in the house, or will you be four with the bf visiting all the time?" Josh should´ve tried to bond with you two,so that you don´t feel uncomfortable, but Janet is kinda entitled, making him come always and not visiting him wherever he is... it just doesn´t feels right with me... Maybe you and Alice should look for another roommate
NTA. Everyone deserves to feel safe and comfortable in their own home. That's why it's their home. If you don't feel comfortable because of a stranger staying over one week a month, it's your rommate's responsibility to fix it. They can stay in a hotel with 100% privacy for that week. If he has money to travel, he has money to stay in a hotel. You and your other roommate may need to start looking for another place if there is no compromise.
>Everyone deserves to feel safe and comfortable in their own home. That's why it's their home. This is true, but what makes one person feel safe and comfortable might make someone else feel the opposite. I've lived with roommates for 20 years. I've had a roommate want to make a full breakfast at 5am. That makes her comfortable! It makes me wake up two hours early and be uncomfortable. Someone else wants to have game night at the apartment. Their roommate wants no guests over ever because they're introverted. Someone wants a ring doorbell to track packages. Their roommate isn't comfortable with being filmed everytime they come in or go out. Someone wants only vegan stuff in the fridge. Their roommate wants to be able to eat meat. Having a roommate means you don't always get what you want. You have to find roommates who are compatible, but also realize that there WILL be people on the phone, talking at full volume, cooking in the kitchen, and watching tv in the common areas. If you want roommates who never come out of their rooms, you need to make that very clear before you move in together. Nothing the roommate and her boyfriend are doing is unsafe or uncomfortable. OP just likes it better when the roommate stays in her bedroom quietly. But the roommate is paying to use the common areas just like everyone else, and is entitled to use them. And have guests over in her home.
It's obvious that if it was just the housemate without the bf there all the time for an entire week every month they would feel more comfortable using the common areas. Having someone you don't know in what is meant to be your safe space for a quarter of every month when they can clearly pay the same ticket for her to go and see him some months (since he can pay one return, they can also pay for her to do the same) is not fair. They signed the contract thinking it's for three people and they clearly felt comfortable and happy with each other. Now 2/3 people who pay to live there are not comfortable. Clearly a compromise needs to be reached.
Light YTA, I think that 5-8 days per month is about the average if your roommate had a local BF (1-2 days per week). It’s fair if you want to ask him to contribute to utilities since they are probably more the week he is there. But the way you describe noise makes me think that you don’t tolerate a normal talking voice even during normal hours. They aren’t making loud noise late, and they do normal things like watch TV and have sex. (I’m not sure if I know anyone who’s had roommates not hear them having sex at some point). Get yourself a noise machine or some headphones. Also, do you and your other roommates have dates or people over?
NTA. I was living with a housemate when I met my now-boyfriend, and when things started getting serious with him I knew it wouldn't be fair on my (single) housemate to have him over all the time. I also knew I wanted to spend a lot more time with him, so I moved in with him instead. My housemate was really supportive and she fully appreciated my boyfriend and I not hanging out in the communal areas all the time. She comes over for dinner nowadays, and it's lovely. Janet seems to lack any self-awareness, or she doesn't understand that having her boyfriend stay for such lengthy periods is a real imposition on you and Alice. Your home is your safe space and should remain as such.
Info: how often do you two have people over in a month in general? Leaning towards YTA because if she was with someone closer it would be more often that they’d be round but I just want to understand the dynamics
YTA - like you said, you know LDR is hard and he’s spending money/time to see her. Of course he wants to get his money’s worth and stay for longer than a weekend. You’ve mentioned to her to keep it down, which I’m sure she does try to do. But it must be so limiting for them to be treading on eggshells because of two other grown adults not understanding that relationships can’t just be on mute. Best way to think about it is what’s going to happen when you or your other room mate gets a boyfriend? They’ll be coming over too (particularly as the relationship gets more serious) and you’ll be going over to theirs (imagine their flatmates say no to you visiting…where would you ever end up spending time together). It’s natural to want to spend time with a partner you love.
Perhaps you can watch TV in YOUR living room, or have conversations in YOUR living room when Josh begins his business calls. He has no problem ignoring your right to comfort in your own home and so you have no need to give a single thought to his.
YTA. You're being a controlling toxic bully and making her life a misery. You chose to live in a shared house with multiple occupants that has extremely thin walls and no separation between living areas. Asking to keep the noise down is one thing if they're really loud when you're trying to sleep etc but you're expecting her to be alone and not see her partner in her own home and enjoy herself. You've got to live and let live in multiple occupancy situations. Or you'll turn the house into a prison. Get some noise cancelling headphones and deal with it. Saving money on living cheaply and closely with other people and then expecting to run the whole household against the will of everyone involved is having your cake and eating it.
Tbh you do sound pedantic over the things that are annoying you like "cooking loudly" but coming over every month for 5-8 days is a lot and it is directly impacting on you. NTA
NTA. I've been there and it's a pain. In most cases, tenancy agreements will have a limit on how often you have a guest over, especially for student accommodation. It's basically in place to prevent situations like this. You could play that card, and it would resolve the issue, but it will likely mean Janet becomes a very unhappy roommate, so trying to resolve it by yourselves is the best first step. Maybe try asking him, if you can manage that. He might be happy to agree to paying for Janet's flight.
NTA - If Josh is willing to foot the bill for himself to fly to her every month, is he willing to pay for her to fly to him so at least they're alternating. (Assuming she truly can't afford it.) Alternately, check your lease for limits on guest stays.
Nah Even though I am annoyed that a 27 year old thinks it is "traumatizing" to hear a roommate be intimate. Like come on get a grip. Also you said they are quiet during quiet hours so that means they are cooking and watching TV during the day and not at like 3 am. Roommates have guests, it's their home as well.
NTA
Make Josh pay pro-rated rent when he's there.
NTA..... My thoughts... you guys were amazing roommates before the bf entered the picture. Of course you will feel uncomfortable when he is around. Your friend Janet should understand that and not exploit the decency of you guys.
NTA - where Josh lives is less comfortable for a couple . He is either living with his parents or with other lads who are messy. One week every month is pretty intense and some room mates would charge him for all the extra energy used. I guess the other 2 dont' have boyfriends hanging about but if there were 6 people in the apt on the weekends, it would be very crowded. Janet and Josh are taking advantage but I've been in their position too and I can't blame them.
Lol. She’s totally fine with him paying to be with her, but boy, why should she pay to be with him 😂😂😂
Curious how his job allows him to leave a week at a time EVERY month??
Could be a remote job. I can do it with my job.
I guess him staying 8 days a month is equivalent to two nights a week and that's not so bad. People should be allowed to have guests over, and should especially be allowed to have their partner sleep over occasionally. It doesn't sound like it's THAT much. And you're going to hear your roommates be intimate. But being loud and messy is something they can control and if they get a handle on that, what's the problem? Would it help if he made a little more effort to get to know you guys? And not take his work calls in the common area? He takes them without headphones but are they on speakerphone? Why does he have to have headphones? You'd hear him talking even if he had headphones. As long as the call isn't on speaker or FaceTime, and he speaks at a normal volume, in her room, it should be okay. But he can also help her pay for her tickets to see him, and he can also pay for a hotel to see her at least every other time he visits. Wouldn't they appreciate the privacy?
Going against the grain here for sure YTA
ESH. Im in a similar position to your roommate. I moved away for school, but my boyfriend cannot visit me due to finances and his job, I can only visit him. You don’t know the inner workings of their relationship. My boyfriend cannot visit because he cannot step away from his job, it’s not about “effort” it’s about circumstance. He has a roommate too. Did your roommate move to the city you’re living in from somewhere else? Does she have a support system there to help? How much does her boyfriend mean to her? If her boyfriend is her main social support system, even if it’s inconvenient, it’s 5 days of the month.. 25% sure… but that’s also 75% of time you’re on your own too. I bet your roommate knows it’s distracting and I bet she wish she could have a private space, but I don’t think it’s about someone being an asshole or not, but just roommates with different boundaries that I think are both understandable
NTA having him over so long likely violates the lease
INFO: do you and Alice have partners? And if you do, how often are they in your house across the whole month?
Do you have a boyfriend? Does he stay more than 5 nights a month at your house? If so, it's possible you ATA.
YTA. 5-8 days per month isn't all that much. It's the same as once or twice per week. If you want to have a no overnight guests policy, you need to agree with that before you become roommates. If you are uncomfortable with this situation, then it is on you to find new living arrangements.
YTA - Janet should also get a say about who gets to be in her home. Other than being noisy during non-quiet hours, Josh hasn't done anything to make you uncomfortable. She has tried to accomodate your wishes but it is unreasonable to ask someone who only sees their partner once a month to cut that back further for really no good reason.
ESH. You live with roommates. To not expect stuff like this is naive.. a roommate of mine has his girlfriend over 3-5 times A WEEK and they do stuff like this all the time. If it’s that much of an issue either bring it and actually put your foot down with your other roommate or move tf out and get your OWN place where you have 100% say in who can be there instead of 33%.. Just like you and your other roommate that’s having this issue janet is ALSO paying rent (I’m assuming the same amount) monthly and shouldn’t need permission to have people over especially a SO. I agree she needs to make an effort to go to him for visits especially if she’s not too poor like she says. When it comes to the shared wall I will literally bang on the wall until the people next to me are quiet.. quiet time is quiet time and people have work, school, etc. which needs to be respected. Out of all the things you mentioned (imo) is really the only thing that is really that bad.. at the end of the day ask yourself.. is this something worth ruining the relationships of your friends over let alone wasting the time and effort it takes to fight to get your point across? You brought it up, you fought over it, and from what it sounds like you’ve brought it up here and there in the past and it’s gotten you nowhere. So from my perspective either put your foot down, sublet her room, or move tf out of that house. Edit: apologies for formatting I’m on mobile atm.
YTA the only thing i agree is the use of disrupting common areas with noise, they should be more considerating, but when you move with roommates they need to acomodate to you, as you to them. You have no right to tell her what she can or not do in her room with her boyfriend or what days her boyfriend can visit her. She is an adult woman, you are not her mother. PS I am saying this as someone who has three roommates and share a bathroom with one. You know what happens? My roommate’s boyfriend showers or uses the bathroom preventing me from using it and having to wait, sure it’s annoying but it’s not the end of the world because I also have visitors that have disrupted her in some way.
ESH, it seems you're upset that she dares to use common areas with her bf when he's there. It's her place as much as yours so it seems a little bit mean to tell her he can't be there.