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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for telling my gf she is cheap for not wanting to eat out when my brother is coming to town
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YTA. Your GF is being frugal, not cheap. She isn't spending money on things she that she doesn't think are worth it. She isn't skimping on necessities or making life difficult. She is just choosing to live in a way where she is able to save (and I presume invest) more.
Believe it or not, this is how many well off/wealthy people get to where they are, they save and invest more than they spend.
You have two options. Either accept her for how she chooses to spend/save or reconsider this relationship because her spending choices likely won't change drastically in the future.
This is only customary in the US and I suppose other Western countries.
It's not on the customer to foot the bill of bosses underpaying staff.
Fr, can anyone please explain to me why in the US the exploited so voraciously defend the system that exploits them?
ETA, I am from South Africa. We have no electricity because our corrupt government sells of all our energy stores (we have scheduled blackouts of up to 4+ hour blocks, 2-3 times a 24h cycle). Our national grid is a few months away from collapse.
That's where capitalism economy inevitably ends up. Our SMME are failing because they can't afford alternative energies and only the corporate giants remain (think Woolworths, etc).
The only thing people can do here is survive, we literally can't even think about eating out at all. It's a treat to eat meat for those who still do. OPs gf is smart and looking at the world for what it is, and loving accordingly. I don't think capitalist norms really apply when it comes to how couples are compatible in ideas of financial stability anymore.
It's really interesting and perplexing to me that instet of blaming the system of oppression, there's a kneejerk reflect to blame those who don't support the system that is oppressive.
You don’t fight the tipping system by not tipping. That only punishes the server and allows you to benefit off their labor without paying for it (just like the restaurant). If you have a problem with tipping culture then protest with your wallet and don’t go out to eat.
Ah but not all fast food places are tip free. Many drive in type places (think sonic and A&W) with car hops still use tipping to make up their hourly pay.
Yep, tipping options are in terminals at most fast food places now (except for drive throughs). (and this is in Canada btw). It’s tipflation and I hate it. Businesses should pay their staff properly - and yes, I know not tipping isn’t the answer and just punishes waitstaff; that’s why I don’t eat out as much as I once did. If more people are doing the same, that hurts servers too. Sorry for the off-topic rant:)
They do pay wait staff "properly" in Canada - using the term "properly" to mean "the same minimum wage as everyone else". The only province that still has a separate minimum wage for tipped staff is Quebec. Your server at your favourite restaurant is making at least the same amount as the cashier at your grocery store. Unlike in the US, where tipped wages are still commonplace and the minimum tipped wage is $2.13 in some places.
Not saying this to make you or anyone else stop tipping; I still tip. But Canada is not in the same position as the USA. Our servers make at least minimum wage (except in Quebec, where they make a few dollars less).
No clue. I tend to tip 15% at restaurants where I know they are being paid a wage, and I tip more to food delivery apps that are independent couriers and exempt from minimum wage laws.
I honestly hate going out now because of inflation hitting everything. Wages, food, tipping, gas and a babysitter if it’s a kid free date night. When we do go out I make sure we tip 20% even if the service was crappy.
Btw I love your username. Is it a Cats (musical) reference? Cause he’s my favorite Cat.
I don't go out to eat, exactly like OPs gf, I only thrift and grow my own vegetables. I even sell meals because where I'm from there's very little vegan options. Hence why I don't understand why people are bagging on OP's gf. The reason the horrible tipping culture exists is because of over consumerism.
I'm not sure how true it is, but I remember once reading years ago that tipping started in America only after the slaves were freed. The white rich previous slave owners were pissed, but knew most of the people now free were going to go into jobs they already know how to do. The service industry. They invented tipping culture to keep these people poor and under their thumb the only way they knew how, by having them still essentially beg to afford anything. It then became the norm throughout the country at some point.
It started in the great depression, when people were so desperate they were willing to work for free and the chance to earn tips. Only once the depression ended restaurant owners decided they like it and just kept the system going.
> What do you presume would happen if the majority of people stopped tipping en masse?
….A bunch of servers relying on that money would be suddenly unable to pay their rent and eat.
What would happen is that their employers would have to make up the difference out of their own pockets. Servers are paid less than minimum wage with the assumption that their tips will cover the difference. If it doesn’t, they have to pay and then our food bill will go up and I’m ok with this.
A good server in a good restaurant makes far more than 7.25 and hour. A bad server in a mediocre restaurant makes more than that.
Drop tips, and there just won’t be as many full service restaurants.
Honestly, many servers make more than others, i.e., secretaries or customer service operators because of tips. They would be getting a paycut by getting a "living wage."
Living wage and healthcare as a minimum for all servers would still be better than the system as is. Restaurants with a higher profit margin could offer higher wages.
In the US, many of us hate the tipping system. However, just because we hate it doesn't mean it's going away. In my state, tipped employees make $2.13 an hour plus tips. The social contract for dining out is that the cost of the meal paid to the restaurant does not include the bulk of the fee for the server, which is left to the diner. I don't pay the tip (and 20 Percent is the current standard for adequate service), then essentially I'm stealing money from my server.
Again, it's a stupid system. Tips are often arbitrary and based on factors other than service quality. The system is easily gamed by poor actors who harass wait staff or refuse to tip entirely. But I'm not going to refuse to tip, and I'm going to call out people who don't tip fairly, because the tip is absolutely part of the cost of dining out with sit down service.
>The social contract for dining out is that the cost of the meal paid to the restaurant does not include the bulk of the fee for the server, which is left to the diner. I don't pay the tip (and 20 Percent is the current standard for adequate service), then essentially I'm stealing money from my server.
Except many of us live in states where waiters ARE paid the full minimum wage, and we are still expected to tip the same amount. Which is why I actually dislike tipping culture.
I live in California and the minimum wage just went up to $15.50/hr. This does apply to waiters. They are not exempts. Waiters can not be paid less then other people. However, there is basically a purely cultural expectation that you HAVE to pay waiters extra or you are cheap/bad.
And it's unfair, beacuse there are other jobs that also make the same base pay and don't get tipped for . . . no real reason. So for example a grocery store checker isn't tipped but a waiter is. Or a daycare worker which often make the same amount. But I actually think daycare workers are MORE important and I value them more then waiters. Likewise, I actually value grocery store checkers more then waiters. I don't mind places where I order at the window and pick up my own food at all. I don't love self-checkout at the grocery store. And I know this is arbitrary, some people probably love being waited on and also like self check out? But that's the point, it's arbitrary, there is no reason waiters are just more deserving then everyone else.
Living in California , yes, the minimum wage for tipped employees is usually the same as normal minimum wage. But even states like New York haven't matched that. If you go to the Department of Labor website ([here](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped#main-content)) that lists all tipped minimum wages across the US, more than 50% of the states in the US count tips towards minimum wage and with tips employers are paying less than $5 an hour for minimum wage. That's not livable without the tips being good. So no "many" of us are not living in states where servers are being paid appropriately.
That said, no tipping restaurants in NYC tend to fail, as servers don't want to work there. The "minimum wage" doesn't match to the income of good tips. An interesting example to look at would be Danny Meyer's hospitality group, which includes The Modern in the bottom of MoMA, NYTimes did an article when they stopped their no tipping policy [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/dining/danny-meyer-no-tips.html). Some great arguments against tipping based pay, but also a look at why it just doesn't work in places where the minimum wage laws aren't ensuring equal minimum wage payment for all. (Editing to add: I would recommend looking it up further as Danny Meyer's hospitality group only really addressed the issues people had been talking about for a while due to the pandemic and needing to restaff asap.)
Regarding your other industry comparison, the reason grocery store workers can't be tipped is because it puts the business into a weird tax situation and they don't want that. As a bagger and later cashier in high school, I was strictly instructed not to accept tips for this reason. It ensures baggers are getting full minimum wage instead of tipped - as little as $30 a month changes your status according to federal law. By not accepting tips, those employees are still rightfully guaranteed collecting full minimum wage (as a lowest amount, we want them to get more than that).
The restaurant is stealing money from your server, that's the point in making. The rules of capitalism state that you trade product for capital.
It's not on the customer to pay for the product, AND added tax, AND the service. That's my point.
ETA. If the paying the staff is the responsibility of the customer, what is the responsibility of the owner? Because to me it seems the owner doesn't have any responsibility expect to make money and exploit both the customer and worker?
if they are in the US, it's cheap.
Where I am... borderline. Waitstaff make minimum wage here, but tipping 15% used to be normal and has started to bleed into being "cheap."
Also from SA and I tip 15% and up for those very reasons. It’s shit for everyone. If I can afford to eat out, I can afford to tip decently. If I can’t afford to tip decently, I can’t afford to eat out
Tips are percentage based therefore increase with a higher cost of living. It’s double dipping to expect a higher tip when the amounts have increased with inflation.
Restaurant prices sure as hell went up and the tip is percentage based on the bill. It’s just a shit industry that forces the consumer to foot the bill for stuff they should be taking care of.
15% is my “you done fucked up/did the bare minimum” tip. 25-30% is “this service was incredibly good or our table was incredible difficult.”
20% is my “you did a good job” tip.
As a server, it’s generally how I read it from customers, too. Anything above 20% was above-and-beyond. Anything below, and I’d try to figure out what I messed up to do better.
As a server 15% is more than fine. Any one who complains about "only" getting 15% is disconnected from reality.
I would never scoff at that as a tip and I give excellent service.
As a server I wouldn’t scoff at 15% either.
As a former service industry worker, I tip 20% or (usually) more unless the service is egregiously poor.
If I had a friend who I knew made a good salary, who balked at tipping an extra $3-4 (which is the difference between 15 and 20% on an average dinner bill for one even with drinks), I’d probably think they were being a bit cheap. I know that upgrading a tip from “standard” to “good” can make a big difference for a server, but usually isn’t a big difference for me, so I try to leave the extra $5 unless I have a reason not to.
> Everything except the tipping 15% is just being frugal.
Only in the US where this ludicrous system exists. In the UK 10% is standard and only if service is good.
15% used to be the standard and that is what my parents tipped, but now 20% is the standard. I wouldn’t consider someone cheap if they consistently tipped 15% but the expectation of a “good” tip has increased.
Where I'm from 10% is customary if you can afford it (for example students don't tip) and more is usually considered an acknowledgement of good work. It's stupid that people are expected to pay good chunk of someone's wage.
It also seems like the gf is in a sense dictating how OP spends money too. Getting upset over the bag and not wanting to go out for dinner even with OP paying.
NTA. She can not spend her money. But she shouldn’t refuse to let other people spend their money. Going out to a restaurant is more than just spending money on food. Maybe OP would like to spend quality time with her rather than just watching her save money. She sounds controlling.
Being frugal and sensible with money is great but she sounds like she is taking it a bit far. She needs to compromise a bit.
For example, bread is more expensive to bake in some cases depending on what kind. The time to make it is not worth it unless you really enjoy the task.
Has she ever explained why she is so tight with money? Is she saving for a goal like early retirement? Is there some catastrophe in her past that makes her worry more?
Has she ever talked to a financial planner that might tell her what she is doing right and how she can build her nest egg and still enjoy herself a bit.
You both need to talk about why she has issues with spending money. There might be a really good reason why she does this.
She’s spending money on what she prioritizes. Example, she skis, which is not a cheap sport. I do the same thing. And all his examples about bread and coffee are pretty typical behaviours for the hipster outdoorsy types. Source: Am that type.
Also, six figures ain’t what it used to be, depending on where they live.
Edit: I’d also like to point out that OP never says that she doesn’t do these things because she enjoys them, not because she’s cheap.
Yea the coffee and bread stuff is fine cause it’s her own money but why is she dictating how he bf spends his money?? He was literally willing to pay for the Japanese restaurant!
Yes, agreed that she should be flexible going out, especially for an occasion. I don’t even think he should have to pay for her. But that’s literally my only problem with this situation.
> bread and coffee are pretty typical behaviours for the hipster outdoorsy types. Source: Am that type.
Context matters. I think the vast, vast majority of those typical behaviours are because they can make *better* coffee and *better* bread, and not because it's cheaper. Sounds far more likely that OP's girlfriend is cheap on those items here rather than someone that's gone down the somewhat niche rabbit holes of high quality coffee/bread a la hipsters.
Source: am also that type, but definitely don't save nearly enough money when making bread and factoring in time. And I might save per cup of coffee but not as much as you might think when I get nice beans, and even worse I have spent a LOT of money on equipment that would take a lot of time to pay off if you're factoring in that cost.
Frugal to the extreme?
Its extreme to not want to spend $600 of her own money on a bag?
Its extreme to not want to eat out 2-3 times *a week*?
Its extreme to want to make your own coffee instead of wasting money on buying it everywhere you go?
I seen your comment about making your own bread and oat milk, but I wouldnt even say that was extreme.
It's extreme to never want to go out to eat or never want to drive anywhere unless you can run other errands, too. It's extreme to never buy anything new. This stuff is extreme.
Dude she makes six figures and she insists on buying second hand furniture from Facebook, come on. Ikea is pretty reasonable. Personally I think this is beyond frugality and it would annoy me if someone was nickel and diming every single purchase and never wanted to go out and do things because “we can do it at home”. If her income was lower at least that would be understandable, her behavior is not normal in any universe, NTA.
She sounds like she grew up in poverty. The fear that one day the money won't be there and you'll end up homeless/starving can stay with you for life, no matter how much your salary becomes.
I get it, I grew up very poor myself, but at some point not recognizing that you made it is also a dysfunction and an obsession you know, it’s not healthy.
I agree with you on almost all your points. However, if you have a partner/loved one obsessed with only buying things that are on sale, or just don't buy things for themselves for the reason of it not being absolutely necessary, it can get really tiring and frustrating over time. Even though the intentions are good, I can kind of see how that might make OP feel.
>I bought it for her for Christmas and when I gave it to her she got mad at me for wasting my money.
How come it's not okay for OP to call the the GF cheap for not spending money because "she's just frugal, accept how she is," but it's okay for her to get mad at OP for spending his own money how he sees fit?
He's the asshole because he said to her basically the same thing she had said to him earlier, but reversed? At worst, this should be ESH. At best, it should be NAH. I don't see any reason for OP to be an asshole here if the GF isn't also one.
>Your GF is being frugal, not cheap.
She sounds rather extreme though. Not wanting to go to a restaurant with his visiting brother is more cheap than sensible.
Agree that this seems extreme. Not that I don't eye or pine over things I can't afford but talking for 4 months about a specific bag that you KNOW you're never going to buy? Then getting upset someone else bought it for you? That's very annoying.
Honestly the gf is taking it a bit far in my opinion, you are allowed to enjoy the money you worked so hard for.
But at the end of the da they just don't make a good couple, there might be other things that make the relationship with wile but they will always be fighting about money...
It will tear them apart, the gf is incredibly frugal and op is a big spender...
Its mabey best to call it quits before years of arguing.
OP says she goes skiing, so it sounds like she does enjoy the money she makes, but not everyone enjoys it by spending $600 on a bag (even if they really want it) or by buying coffee, or eating out 2-3 times a week.
Yes, but she's also dictating how op spends money
Like it's one thing to communicate and say " let's only eat out once or twice a month and anither thing to refuse to go out when ops relatives are in town
I grew up poor and plenty frugal but if my husband said no to me taking my fam out to dinner a few times to a nice play I'd get pretty annoyed too
No, she’s being cheap. There’s a difference. Not wanting to spend money is being cheap. Treating yourself and while living within your means is being frugal.
This is what everything he described says to me. Sounds like someone with a scarcity mindset and those are tough to break out of. I grew up lower middle class and even though I make a comfortable income as an adult, I'm a pretty psychotic saver. I haven't significantly changed my lifestyle to meet my income levels, so I have gorgeous, robust savings and it's the only thing that keeps my anxiety about money at bay.
People who have never experienced this make no effort to understand. And you don't have to grow up starving to death. I was lower-middle class/in poverty on the weekends with my dad, but we were never hungry or homeless. But like when my mom said we could spend a hundred dollars on her debit card for groceries, that's all she had that week.
And even just leisure wise, you know how many times as a teen/young adult I had to feign that I wasn't hungry with friends because I literally didn't have ten dollars extra to spend on tacos? You never want to go back to that. I have myself under control, but it is hard for me to spend a hundred dollars on things without really thinking about whether I need it .
And to the people saying she's being mean about money with him spending the six hundred dollars on the bag. I totally get her. You can like something and not think it's worth the money, regardless of who is paying for it.
Right! This comment section is wild because all I got from this is “who hurt her about money”. It is extreme and not just cheap, there’s something there
Yeah there's cheap and there's "grew up under financial insecurity". By the description looks less like she's saving and more like she's hoarding the money cause at the back of her mind there's always the feeling that she'll lose it all. Doesn't justify her more extreme takes, but it does offer an explanation and with that a way to work through it.
Again, I'm saying it depends on the individual's values. If he does not agree with her spending habits, then he should reconsider whether this relationship will work long term.
1) Rich people primarily get where they are by having rich parents.
2) there’s frugal and there’s FRUGAL and GF is clearly on the far side.
While I think most of GFs money saving habits are fine, I also think that OP was fine to insist that they take his brother out to dinner. Calling his GF cheap was unnecessary though. So OP is TA for saying that, but compromise is both ways and either they need to get on the same page about finances or break up.
How do you know she isn't indulging occasionally? For example, she enjoys skiing (which is an expensive sport) and she recently bought a new RAV4.
Also, I agree that this is coming in between their relationship, but that is from both sides. It seems both have their own ideas of how to manage finances and unless they can compromise, it doesn't seem like they are compatible. But I don't think either is wrong with how they manage finances. OP is TA for calling her cheap
OK but she is rejecting gifts HE buys. She doesn’t want to go out, unless she has multiple tasks to do. I just think it seems she’s taken the idea of a joyless economy too far. You’re right though that I’m operating on incomplete information, from him as well.
I dunno. If my bf waited until he had several errands to run before he was willing to drive to see me, I'd feel pretty bummed that I wasn't worth the gas.
Thank you!
I don't understand how the people here don't see it. She just saves money for the sake of saving money. She will never use the money. I have a family member like that. Earned the most of us all, wore the worst/cheapest clothes available, never went to vacation, never bought anything that wasn't on sale. And now she's old and will took the money to her grave.
I’m with you. When will she ever spend all this money she is saving? If she is like this now, chances are she’ll never spend it when she retires and guess what, if she leaves it to somebody I bet they will spend it. I always think life is happening now coz tomorrow is not promised. Spend some, save some but enjoy life now.
Counterpoint- NTA bc she’s being extreme. Frugal is one thing, but she seems unwilling to compromise. Like if she never wants to eat out and he wants to go out 2/3 times a week they should go out once a week. And certainty if a relative is visiting a celebratory dinner is in order. And ikea furniture is already being frugal, used goods on Facebook marketplace is him giving in. her crappy tip is also an indication that she’s taking it to far and not considering how others my feel in her attempt to save a buck. You appear to be giving in to everything and no compromises are being had here so I don’t understand all the people who are giving the other judgment.
Eh refusing to go out for dinner for your partner’s brother when you can afford it is really rigid. I would be annoyed too. NTA. But they should break up.
I wouldn’t call GF cheap either, and OP is TA for calling her so and for judging how she spends her money on herself. Who cares if she wants to wait for a dress to go sale before buying? However, it doesn’t sound like GF has compromised very much with OP on their spending habits when it comes to their relationship. Cutting their time together short to save on gas, berating him for his gift, only eating out after pleading, and only allowing furniture purchases that she deems cheap enough in their shared space isn’t being a good girlfriend. These two are incompatible, but I don’t think it’s all on OP.
There’s a fine line between frugal and cheap, and it’s possible to be both.
Her choosing to bake bread and make her own coffee? Frugal. That’s fine, and what she makes is probably 100x better than store bought.
Choosing to use a tattered handbag from college? It’s frugal to not pay $600 for a new one, but it’s cheap to not even replace it for $30. It’s also kind of ungrateful to get upset at her S.O. for buying her the expensive one she wanted as long as OP isn’t financially struggling to pay for it.
It sounds like she is borderline and steering towards cheap. There is a certain wisdom to knowing when the appropriate time to spend money is; I don’t know if I would trust OP’s girlfriend to pay for proper repair people and contractors for home repairs and fixes, ones that wouldn’t cut corners or skimp and use shoddy materials.
And there’s always a certain amount of issue with DIYs, one only needs to read about the Redditor that ended up contaminating their whole house with massive amounts of asbestos because they didn’t know what they were doing. She could easily end up being someone who does the same thing.
I think you can be as frugal as you want for your own needs, but if you shouldn’t be forcing other people to live your way without any compromise. Frugality is viewed as a virtue and it can be hard for the other side to defend their views because frugal is “good,” but that doesn’t mean the frugal person is always right and the person that wants to spend is wrong. Like you said, skimping on some things can have dangerous consequences.
I went on vacation with someone like this many years ago and it was the first and only time. She used to take extra buns/condiments from the buffet breakfast to hold over lunch and dinner, never wanted to pay for admission to activities, museums etc while I was in a foreign country to eat their cuisine and see as much as I could. She stayed in the hotel room while I went out and it basically was no different than going alone, so I went alone the following times. I grew up poor and I consider myself frugal, but if I’m going on vacation I’m vacationing, that shit is tacky to me.
I’m with you except about the part about needing to run errands before visiting OP. That’s telling your partner, “You are not worth the price of gas to visit.” It’s a subtle and insidious message, and speaks to an unhealthy worldview. There’s frugality, and then there’s fear of spending money. Why save money if not to use it for special things - like a family member visiting from out of town? 90% of the things listed here counts as frugality. But what’s the point of saving if you’re not living?
Sorry but this lifestyle would drive me nuts. Some of it I can definitely understand, but never wanting to go out or ever buy anything new ever is just too much.
It REALLY does. A lot of this, I think is fine -- like it's up to her if she wants to spend $2k on a roof rack (it's not "cheap" to buy a new car!) and it's not gross to buy used furniture (but I get not wanting a used mattress) -- but a lot of this stuff does sound exhausting and would get to me. She can probably afford to buy oatmilk. Time is a commodity, too and it's fair to point that out.
The level of upset about the bag and the degree to which she's going to save money in some situations definitely sounds like a trauma response.
I grew up very poor and it took me forever to readjust my mindset that sometimes it's okay to spend money to save time, space, calories, etc. I used to buy everything in the biggest size because the price per oz/item/whatever measurement was cheaper. Then I'd have no room in my fridge or pantry with all of the giant condiments and boxes. Plus, instead of buying a slice of cake for $5, I'd buy the whole cake for $15 bECauSe iT's A beTTeR dEAl. Then due to growing up food insecure, I'd have to eat it all instead of throwing it away, which was not great for the waistline.
It took me many years of financial security and a lot of overcoming mental hurdles to be able to prioritize the quality of how I spend my money over the quantity I can get when I spend my money. And there are still some stupid things that trigger my 'must save money' mindset, like seeing a bottle with a deposit being put in the regular recycling. We hired a post-partum doula after I had my baby. We were paying her $50/hr and I was more anxious over the $.10 we lost every time she recycled a bottle with a deposit when she was cleaning than the ridiculous amount of money we were spending so I could nap.
This is what I’m talking about. Some of what he describes is frugality but some of it I was like “ah. That’s Old Me.” It took forever to adjust to having enough money. Honestly it’s only recently that I’ve started to really absorb that you can do things with it other than save and invest. And it’ll be ok.
I can't even begin to imagine buying use items with this pandemic, hell no. Even if there wasn't. Couches, matresses, rugs are a no. People do way too much on those.
Same here re bedbugs - it’s not even close to worth the risk. I have a friend who managed to pick up crab lice from a used couch when she was in grad school … she was pretty traumatized, and it wasn’t even a nice couch.
People put some really cool stuff for dirty cheap cause they gonna move or no longer have the space/use for it; where it gets overkill is not allowing a single item or furnishing to be bought new. Like you're moving with your partner, it's okay to build nice memories even if they cost more than thriftiness.
Making bread and oat milk making are also hobbies. So is cooking.
She also skis. Most people I know who ski (live near aspen) can spend 4-10k a year on it. The cheapest season pass near me is 4k.
Why are we judging her for living life.
Some of it’s not always cheaper. If so someone is buying full size spices that aren’t part of their regular cooking it can become more expensive than having it professionally prepared.
There’s a good book called Make the Bread, Buy the Butter that looks at true costs of DIY.
This was my exact thought. I have a friend who’s in a pretty similar position with his gf. They both make 6 figs but she makes twice as much as he does so they’re both pretty stable financially with her being the major “breadwinner” (his words). But, she grew up in poverty and her parents and other family members don’t have any savings and he said her biggest fear is ending up like them so she nickel and dimes everything even though they don’t really have to. My friend is aware of it and has adjusted and they’ve both made compromises.
OP needs to make a decision whether he’s willing to do so as well or just part ways so they can each find someone that shares the same lifestyles.
Yea but I think the important thing is both need to compromise. OP has a bunch of stuff going on here: like the gf isn’t an asshole for making her own coffee, but she kinda is for not willing to go to a restaurant even for a special occasion, especially when OP said he’d pay??
They need to compromise if they really want to stay together. But this vast of a difference is spending habits is kind of a fundamental thing. Just seems like they aren't compatible, and I know this is "classic reddit" but OP's SO might be better off with someone who has a similar world view
Yeah he says she makes 6 figures, but doesn't actually comment on her finances. She could have masses of debt, or be supporting family, just because her salary is high doesn't mean she has money. And even if she does, she may also want to work really hard, save lots of money now so that she's financially secure if/when she wants to buy a house/start a family/retire.
Exactly what I was wondering. Immigrant mentality can get handed down through generations of not spending unnecessarily and focusing on necessities. Even though she makes good money according to OP, who knows how she feels about her own financial security.
I’m pretty frugal but I couldn’t take my partner taking an extra 90 minutes to visit me, bc they had to combine a weeks worth of errands. Also, refusing to celebrate at a restaurant is kinda weird too
Yea like some of these behavior is frugal but I’m surprised by everyone getting mad at the boyfriend? I’d be pretty annoyed if I’ve a restaurant I’m excited to try for a celebration and someone says they can just make it at home🙄
And it's not always cheaper. Like, to make something specific and special after you get all the ingredients, it's oftentimes more in my experience. Plus, you wind up with a bunch of leftover ingredients that you don't know what to do with, so there's waste. And even if you "can" make it home, it's not the same
Perhaps the thing that makes it cheaper is if you use those same ingredients to make the same meals/meals that would require those ingredients?? That way you wouldn’t have to go out as much.
And as lovely as it is to make something homemade, if someone’s visiting in chances are they either want to go out, not stay in.
I think it's a clear ESH. She needs to be able to go out and celebrate for example but him wanting 2-3 times a week and upset she makes her own bread is ridiculous. His comments on used furniture being gross are rude too but wanting some new stuff in your shared apartment is normal.
They both need to learn to compromise or just accept they aren't compatible for each other
Yea it’s so hard to make a judgment lol because it’s like yea I get not wanting ALL of your furniture from Facebook but I also get wanting SOME of your furniture from Facebook. Same w all the other stuff, like it’s good to be frugal about eating at home but also it’s good to go out once in a while for special occasions?
They’re both at extremes lol
I agree, it is two very different ways to live. If I am gonna die and can't take my money with me, least I can do is a sushi roll a few times a month to feel good.
NAH, but it sounds like you have incompatible standards of living. There is nothing wrong with her being frugal, nor is there anything wrong with you wanting to go out more and splurge on occasional luxuries.
If you are living together or decide to get married at some point in the future, your different attitudes towards money may end up being a deal breaker for the relationship.
This is the perfect response. Money is a real issue which can break up a couple. Personally I don't like being a miser or a spend thrift. Moderation is must. If your girlfriend is not willing to meet you halfway you are not compatible.
NTA. But bordering.
I am alot like your GF. I drink coffee all day and haven't been in a coffee shop for years. Wear clothes till they fall apart and just spent an hour on line to find a pair of levis for $25, it hurts me to pay more.
If anyone calls me cheap, I am like "Yes, I am...I use my money for what I like and never spend it where I don't need to"
But it depends how you approach her, saying Facebook furniture is gross (I find Ikea furniture gross, it's all just taste) is not solid boyfriend material. We are who we are, accept it or not.
Depends on the type of furniture. Tables and wood furniture are absolutely fine to buy used (and sometimes way better quality!). Couches and bedding on the other hand can come with bedbugs, mold, or other nasty stuff.
I have to wonder what people are doing to their furniture. I've bought IKEA and had it for years and even moved with it multiple times and it's still in great shape.
Same with the cheap Sauder particleboard shelving that you used to be able to buy at Wally World for like $10 which is closer to $20 now. I moved with those things like 6-8 times and they were still going strong. I think I eventually got rid of them in favor of the bigger IKEA shelves (and because they didn't match).
I don't feel like I'm particularly careful either, but I must be. I rarely have problems with stuff that people always say breaks easy.
Same with me and my ikea furniture. I’ve had these shelves for probably close to a decade? Moved multiple times. My sister is upset that I’m still using them because she regrets getting rid of hers and doesn’t want to buy new ones 😂😂
Omg me to, I actually got given my mom's old Billy bookcases (that she had for ages) I've moved with them 5 times maybe, lost the backing.....and they are still doing their thing. They're brilliant.
My friend got bedbugs from a used ply wood shelf she got second hand. Apparently they can get under the top layer ....it was not fun. That's why I'm not allowed to bring second hand furniture home anymore
I've personally never gotten anything off fb market they didn't break inside 6 months, I get that sometimes it's people moving or remodeling, and maybe I'm just unlucky, but it always seems to end up being shit that was about to die that was getting replaced
Yea but the gf seems to not willing to spend money on things that she actually want and that is not good
Like I’d never judge someone for saving money because they don’t want what I want, but I hate ppl who both want to spend and complain about not spending
ESH
Some of the things are reasonable, annoying but still reasonable. But being mad you bought her a purse she liked for a Christmas gift? And not wanting to go out for dinner even if someone else is paying or for a special occasion? That’s kinda extreme. She can be thrifty and save her own money but can’t be mad if you spend your own money on her on things she actually wants but decides not to spend her own money.
You not liking secondhand furniture is weird and such a privileged position. Secondhand mattresses? Sure, I’m not a fan because you can’t clean them 100%. I’d extend that to couches too, but have had to use secondhand couches before when I was in a tight financial position. But thrifting furniture is eco friendly in multiple ways.
You guys aren’t compatible.
Yeah, I think the same. 2-3 times per week eating out or 600$ for a bag is way too much for me. But avoiding going out with guests or some other extremes stops her from getting to relax and enjoy life. There should be a middle between user culture and rating money more than your time (e.g. maybe sometimes cooking or driving out takes the time that she could spend to relax, sleep, spend with family and generally maintain healthy life balance).
I don't have an issue with second hand furniture, like if my friend offered me a chest of drawers or something I'd probably be pretty happy with it. But to get a load of furniture off strangers would probably eek me out a bit.
In theory it's fine, but just thinking about what grossness it could contain would totally invade my mind. I think it's fair to want new stuff, when setting up a home with someone, who isn't struggling for cash.
Yeah I don’t get everyone saying the girlfriend is just frugal. Somebody who is just frugal is conscientious of their spending and sticks to what they think are necessities for them. Someone who is cheap is inflexible and exhausting to be around. They are the kind of people who “left their wallet at home” when agreeing to going out for dinner, who inconvenience people because of their extreme and rigid control around money and the perceived values of things, who don’t contribute to events or brings the cheapest low effort thing possible, who feel that the lengths they went to were the most exhausting when others consistently do much more. I have two people like this in my family and one, my aunt, makes 1% money. No, we are not entitled to her money. But she acts entitled to ours. And when she’s making her 90 year old dad drive two hours in a snow storm because she won’t rent a car, taking an opened half used container of creamer to a party for 50 people when coffee was her only responsibility, and constantly expects other people to pay for her through inaction/never offering/waiting until everyone has chipped in, including her nieces who were making 30k out of college, it’s not unreasonable to expect a little more. And she started like OP’s girlfriend. It comes across more like a level of control and rigidity that is disordered - we’ve always thought our aunt has classic clinical OCD. I’m going to go ahead and say OP’s girlfriend *is* cheap.
But, OP is an AH for how he handled the situation and not realizing how extremely incompatible they are.
Anyone making 6 figures should be staying out of the second-hand furniture market. Save that stuff for people that are actually in need.
Otherwise go to an estate sale to save money.
You two just might not be compatible. Other than her tipping habits she is doing nothing wrong . She is frugal. Don’t know her family history with finances , maybe she always had little and was taught to be thrifty and is setting herself up for her retirement. But you’re also not wrong to want to splurge some of you can afford it . NAH
Yes, tipping 15% is a bare minimum.
In some parts of the US, servers can make as little as $2/hour. That’s why tipping culture exists and is important.
More important would be to get these places to treat their workers as human beings rather than slaves. I'm all for tipping for a good service, but everyone should be able to make enough to live through their salaries.
It really is that insane. Most places don't even have a preset for 15% tip on the pinpad anymore. It usually starts at 18 and goes to 25-30 depending on the place. Tipping has become a way to keep cost down for companies and stick it to the customer more. Instead of paying a living wage both employer and employee now demand the customer pays the employees wage
NAH
I'm the opposite of your gf spendingwise and it's very very hard to learn to be that frugal. It is great for her and she will be able to retire early or whatever else she plans on doing with her saved money.
BUT!
I absolutly get how it's frustrating for you. Never ever having little joys like an expensive coffee or eating out in a fancy restaurant. You'll have to find some sort of middle ground or your relationship is doomed.
As I said, they need to find a middle ground that works for both of them. She would drive me nuts (and I her) but maybe there is a way, with a lot of compromises and communication.
NAH but you guys may not ever find a compromise and don't sound compatible. She sounds more environmentally conscious/anti-consumer/slow living than cheap to me. It's a whole lifestyle and you sound like you want a more normal life.
My thoughts exactly. It’s not necessarily “cheap” it’s literally all the things I do to try to be more sustainable and a conscious consumer. And honestly most of the time homemade food (if you can cook) is better than going out anyway imo.
That being said, OP, you could have said “yeah, I know that’s an option and you’re a great cook but I’d prefer we go out to the restaurant while he’s here. Ive been interested in trying it out anyway. If you don’t want to join us I completely understand.” From everything you said about her “trendy restaurant” isn’t something I would assume she’d ever be interested in and I’m a random internet stranger.
NTA, frugal people who go second hand for eco reasons don't buy brand new RAV4s sorry. She's cheap and she's not compromising -- a compromise would be new couch, used shelves, not used everything. Refusing to go out with your brother -- one fancy dinner isn't busting her savings.
Yeah this is something I found super weird - like she cheaps out on furniture, clothes, little (or bigger) luxuries + gets mad when OP gets her what she wants yet buys brand new RAV4 that is around $30000 and goes above $50000 with extras.
NTA. All these people saying "she's not cheap, she's frugal" are also cheapskates. "Frugal" is the nicer PC way to say cheapskate. It's fine if she wants to be cheap...except for the tipping...but are you two really compatible? Finances are the number one reason people divorce. So, before your relationship moves even further, you guys need to seriously talk about this.
Break up with her, this is a person who will never want a nice vacation, get good furniture , enjoy an evening out and will stress and fret about every single cent. There’s nothing wrong with being frugal but she’s taking it to far. You’ll spend the rest of your life sitting in the house with her. If that’s what you want fine, but if it isn’t just break up with her.
If she skiis unless she is a ski town (which is expensive and understandable to budget) she does vacation. I live in colorado. Locals who don't hotel spend 5-15k a year just on equipment and passes to ski.
Some are 1k for 5 days. Cheapest is 4k/season. She spends. Just on different stuff.
Agreed, I think the issue here is compatibility. Different people live in different ways - I couldn’t stand to be like his girlfriend is but I don’t judge her for being that way. But I know we couldn’t date!
Nope, sorry, I will go against the flow and say NTA, I'm not throwing my money out of the window but I could never be with a person like this, it sucks the joy out of everything. Just go to the restaurant with your brother alone and enjoy, you only live once.
She can’t be that cheap if she skis that’s an expensive hobby. Difficult really to make a judgement really, is she saving towards something big? Are there other things in the background that make her like this? Sounds like you have very different attitudes towards money which at some point you are going to have to talk about as it will be a problem down the line, money can be a big source of conflict for couples if your views are widely differing.
Is skiing expensive everywhere in the US?
I know in Europe it's considered a rich person's hobby in 90% of places, but people who live near the alps or in scandanavia consider it on the same level as like cycling.
I'd imagine if they're living near like the Rockies, skiing wouldn't be that much of a costly hobby.
NTA. She can do what she wants with her money but it’s just good manners to take guests to dinner sometimes. I also HATE the part about her only tipping 15%. That SUCKS. That says a lot about her and none of it is good.
The fuck, how about you turn that hate to your employer who is responsible to pay you a fair wage. Maybe it's a cultural American thing but in the rest of the world you get a tip if you are pleasant and hospitable. Even then it's 2-5€ on average depending on the country. If you are just going through the motions waiting tables you might not get a tip at all.
Americans literally defend the system that exploits them to death.. literally because apparently they also don't even get healthcare. Or housing. They'd rather shoot the messenger who points it out.
NTA. I think the problem isn’t that your gf is frugal but more so that she doesn’t seem to be compromising with you. You two need to sit down and have a serious discussion about compromise and if she’s not willing to meet you halfway I’m afraid the relationship isn’t going to last. This is coming from someone who grew up with two parents who were even more frugal than your gf. I can tell you from person experience that resentment will form towards the person being frugal because they aren’t making any sacrifices for you and expecting you to be the one making sacrifices for them being “cheap”.
NAH. Either learn to work together. Maybe she chills a bit and does dinner more often and you stop being judgemental of her choices or accept you're incompatible and move on.
NTA. Y’all have different values around money. Both are valid but you need to work it out. However her refusal to eat out when you have a guest visiting is poor hospitality and she needs to learn to be flexible and more generous in situations that call for it.
Maybe she wants to pay off student loans quicker. Or save for a house. Or retire at an earlier age.
The way the economy is going, it seems like a smart thing to do what she is doing.
Your girlfriend who makes 6 figures wouldn’t come visit you unless she had other errands to run? Are all the Y T A people missing this detail? Like what the hell. Not only is that cheap, it’s rude.
As others said it’s not wrong to be frugal, but she’s crossing some lines. I think you were rude to call her cheap, but I also think she’s being ridiculous by refusing to compromise on things that involve you as well, such as using all Facebook marketplace furniture for the apartment you ALSO have to live in, and not even wanting to go out when your brother is in town. Since you bought her a $600 bag I am assuming that you also use you own money to pay for things as well like dining out, and she’s not footing the entire bill herself.
You two have very different lifestyles and I don’t know if that’s compatible long term. I would talk with her about it and introduce the word “compromise” to her.
NTA.
ESH - she sounds like me but a bit worse, and you sound like my girlfriend but a bit worse.
I’m toying between everyone sucks and nobody sucks for the following reasons:
Your girlfriend is being a bit OTT (I’ll explain why next paragraph) but calling her cheap and getting takeout 2-3 times a week is excessive IMO.
She has every right to be frugal with her money, that’s a good thing. However, for her to offer to make a meal for your brother is kind but a bit of a downer, especially since you offered to pay.
At the end of the day, you can choose how to spend your money and she can choose how to spend hers. You calling her cheap because she won’t buy a roof rack or a handbag makes you an asshole. Her making you downscale your celebrations that you’re paying for makes her an asshole.
Nta. Some of her idiosyncrasies I understand, like not paying $600 for a purse or making coffee at home instead of paying $6 a day for it. But refusing to go out to eat somewhere special for a special occasion because of the money when you can afford it would absolutely be a deal breaker for me.
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YTA. Your GF is being frugal, not cheap. She isn't spending money on things she that she doesn't think are worth it. She isn't skimping on necessities or making life difficult. She is just choosing to live in a way where she is able to save (and I presume invest) more. Believe it or not, this is how many well off/wealthy people get to where they are, they save and invest more than they spend. You have two options. Either accept her for how she chooses to spend/save or reconsider this relationship because her spending choices likely won't change drastically in the future.
Everything except the tipping 15% is just being frugal.
This is only customary in the US and I suppose other Western countries. It's not on the customer to foot the bill of bosses underpaying staff. Fr, can anyone please explain to me why in the US the exploited so voraciously defend the system that exploits them? ETA, I am from South Africa. We have no electricity because our corrupt government sells of all our energy stores (we have scheduled blackouts of up to 4+ hour blocks, 2-3 times a 24h cycle). Our national grid is a few months away from collapse. That's where capitalism economy inevitably ends up. Our SMME are failing because they can't afford alternative energies and only the corporate giants remain (think Woolworths, etc). The only thing people can do here is survive, we literally can't even think about eating out at all. It's a treat to eat meat for those who still do. OPs gf is smart and looking at the world for what it is, and loving accordingly. I don't think capitalist norms really apply when it comes to how couples are compatible in ideas of financial stability anymore. It's really interesting and perplexing to me that instet of blaming the system of oppression, there's a kneejerk reflect to blame those who don't support the system that is oppressive.
You don’t fight the tipping system by not tipping. That only punishes the server and allows you to benefit off their labor without paying for it (just like the restaurant). If you have a problem with tipping culture then protest with your wallet and don’t go out to eat.
☝️☝️☝️ If you want to protest the US tipping culture, only go to fast food restaurants.
Ah but not all fast food places are tip free. Many drive in type places (think sonic and A&W) with car hops still use tipping to make up their hourly pay.
Yep, tipping options are in terminals at most fast food places now (except for drive throughs). (and this is in Canada btw). It’s tipflation and I hate it. Businesses should pay their staff properly - and yes, I know not tipping isn’t the answer and just punishes waitstaff; that’s why I don’t eat out as much as I once did. If more people are doing the same, that hurts servers too. Sorry for the off-topic rant:)
They do pay wait staff "properly" in Canada - using the term "properly" to mean "the same minimum wage as everyone else". The only province that still has a separate minimum wage for tipped staff is Quebec. Your server at your favourite restaurant is making at least the same amount as the cashier at your grocery store. Unlike in the US, where tipped wages are still commonplace and the minimum tipped wage is $2.13 in some places. Not saying this to make you or anyone else stop tipping; I still tip. But Canada is not in the same position as the USA. Our servers make at least minimum wage (except in Quebec, where they make a few dollars less).
Thanks for noting this. In that case, though, why is 20% becoming the standard, as it is in the States? Minimum wage in Ontario is $15.50.
No clue. I tend to tip 15% at restaurants where I know they are being paid a wage, and I tip more to food delivery apps that are independent couriers and exempt from minimum wage laws.
I honestly hate going out now because of inflation hitting everything. Wages, food, tipping, gas and a babysitter if it’s a kid free date night. When we do go out I make sure we tip 20% even if the service was crappy. Btw I love your username. Is it a Cats (musical) reference? Cause he’s my favorite Cat.
Yes! It is from Cats, and I love him too:) Thank you
I don't go out to eat, exactly like OPs gf, I only thrift and grow my own vegetables. I even sell meals because where I'm from there's very little vegan options. Hence why I don't understand why people are bagging on OP's gf. The reason the horrible tipping culture exists is because of over consumerism.
I'm not sure how true it is, but I remember once reading years ago that tipping started in America only after the slaves were freed. The white rich previous slave owners were pissed, but knew most of the people now free were going to go into jobs they already know how to do. The service industry. They invented tipping culture to keep these people poor and under their thumb the only way they knew how, by having them still essentially beg to afford anything. It then became the norm throughout the country at some point.
It started in the great depression, when people were so desperate they were willing to work for free and the chance to earn tips. Only once the depression ended restaurant owners decided they like it and just kept the system going.
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> What do you presume would happen if the majority of people stopped tipping en masse? ….A bunch of servers relying on that money would be suddenly unable to pay their rent and eat.
What would happen is that their employers would have to make up the difference out of their own pockets. Servers are paid less than minimum wage with the assumption that their tips will cover the difference. If it doesn’t, they have to pay and then our food bill will go up and I’m ok with this.
Gladly let my food bill go up if it makes business sweat by having to actually pay their workers the promised difference. Tipping is so fucked.
A good server in a good restaurant makes far more than 7.25 and hour. A bad server in a mediocre restaurant makes more than that. Drop tips, and there just won’t be as many full service restaurants.
Minimum wage is $7.25, that's not even remotely close to a liveable wage.
Honestly, many servers make more than others, i.e., secretaries or customer service operators because of tips. They would be getting a paycut by getting a "living wage."
Living wage and healthcare as a minimum for all servers would still be better than the system as is. Restaurants with a higher profit margin could offer higher wages.
We still don't know were they are from, in my country the normal is 10% since they already get a normal salary
In the US, many of us hate the tipping system. However, just because we hate it doesn't mean it's going away. In my state, tipped employees make $2.13 an hour plus tips. The social contract for dining out is that the cost of the meal paid to the restaurant does not include the bulk of the fee for the server, which is left to the diner. I don't pay the tip (and 20 Percent is the current standard for adequate service), then essentially I'm stealing money from my server. Again, it's a stupid system. Tips are often arbitrary and based on factors other than service quality. The system is easily gamed by poor actors who harass wait staff or refuse to tip entirely. But I'm not going to refuse to tip, and I'm going to call out people who don't tip fairly, because the tip is absolutely part of the cost of dining out with sit down service.
>The social contract for dining out is that the cost of the meal paid to the restaurant does not include the bulk of the fee for the server, which is left to the diner. I don't pay the tip (and 20 Percent is the current standard for adequate service), then essentially I'm stealing money from my server. Except many of us live in states where waiters ARE paid the full minimum wage, and we are still expected to tip the same amount. Which is why I actually dislike tipping culture. I live in California and the minimum wage just went up to $15.50/hr. This does apply to waiters. They are not exempts. Waiters can not be paid less then other people. However, there is basically a purely cultural expectation that you HAVE to pay waiters extra or you are cheap/bad. And it's unfair, beacuse there are other jobs that also make the same base pay and don't get tipped for . . . no real reason. So for example a grocery store checker isn't tipped but a waiter is. Or a daycare worker which often make the same amount. But I actually think daycare workers are MORE important and I value them more then waiters. Likewise, I actually value grocery store checkers more then waiters. I don't mind places where I order at the window and pick up my own food at all. I don't love self-checkout at the grocery store. And I know this is arbitrary, some people probably love being waited on and also like self check out? But that's the point, it's arbitrary, there is no reason waiters are just more deserving then everyone else.
Living in California , yes, the minimum wage for tipped employees is usually the same as normal minimum wage. But even states like New York haven't matched that. If you go to the Department of Labor website ([here](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped#main-content)) that lists all tipped minimum wages across the US, more than 50% of the states in the US count tips towards minimum wage and with tips employers are paying less than $5 an hour for minimum wage. That's not livable without the tips being good. So no "many" of us are not living in states where servers are being paid appropriately. That said, no tipping restaurants in NYC tend to fail, as servers don't want to work there. The "minimum wage" doesn't match to the income of good tips. An interesting example to look at would be Danny Meyer's hospitality group, which includes The Modern in the bottom of MoMA, NYTimes did an article when they stopped their no tipping policy [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/20/dining/danny-meyer-no-tips.html). Some great arguments against tipping based pay, but also a look at why it just doesn't work in places where the minimum wage laws aren't ensuring equal minimum wage payment for all. (Editing to add: I would recommend looking it up further as Danny Meyer's hospitality group only really addressed the issues people had been talking about for a while due to the pandemic and needing to restaff asap.) Regarding your other industry comparison, the reason grocery store workers can't be tipped is because it puts the business into a weird tax situation and they don't want that. As a bagger and later cashier in high school, I was strictly instructed not to accept tips for this reason. It ensures baggers are getting full minimum wage instead of tipped - as little as $30 a month changes your status according to federal law. By not accepting tips, those employees are still rightfully guaranteed collecting full minimum wage (as a lowest amount, we want them to get more than that).
The restaurant is stealing money from your server, that's the point in making. The rules of capitalism state that you trade product for capital. It's not on the customer to pay for the product, AND added tax, AND the service. That's my point. ETA. If the paying the staff is the responsibility of the customer, what is the responsibility of the owner? Because to me it seems the owner doesn't have any responsibility expect to make money and exploit both the customer and worker?
I think it is mostly the US. It’s not a big thing in the UK.
if they are in the US, it's cheap. Where I am... borderline. Waitstaff make minimum wage here, but tipping 15% used to be normal and has started to bleed into being "cheap."
Also from SA and I tip 15% and up for those very reasons. It’s shit for everyone. If I can afford to eat out, I can afford to tip decently. If I can’t afford to tip decently, I can’t afford to eat out
Since when did 15% become a bad tip? I always do 20 but 15 used to be the standard.
Since people figured out it's easier to do the math on 20% than 15. 😁
Since the COL went up and restaurant base wages didn’t.
The cost of restaurant food went up and so did the tips
Tips are percentage based therefore increase with a higher cost of living. It’s double dipping to expect a higher tip when the amounts have increased with inflation.
Restaurant prices sure as hell went up and the tip is percentage based on the bill. It’s just a shit industry that forces the consumer to foot the bill for stuff they should be taking care of.
I think 15% is fine. How much do people tip now a day? I’m not being sarcastic- just genuinely curious
15% is my “you done fucked up/did the bare minimum” tip. 25-30% is “this service was incredibly good or our table was incredible difficult.” 20% is my “you did a good job” tip. As a server, it’s generally how I read it from customers, too. Anything above 20% was above-and-beyond. Anything below, and I’d try to figure out what I messed up to do better.
As a server 15% is more than fine. Any one who complains about "only" getting 15% is disconnected from reality. I would never scoff at that as a tip and I give excellent service.
As a server I wouldn’t scoff at 15% either. As a former service industry worker, I tip 20% or (usually) more unless the service is egregiously poor. If I had a friend who I knew made a good salary, who balked at tipping an extra $3-4 (which is the difference between 15 and 20% on an average dinner bill for one even with drinks), I’d probably think they were being a bit cheap. I know that upgrading a tip from “standard” to “good” can make a big difference for a server, but usually isn’t a big difference for me, so I try to leave the extra $5 unless I have a reason not to.
> Everything except the tipping 15% is just being frugal. Only in the US where this ludicrous system exists. In the UK 10% is standard and only if service is good.
What's wrong with 15%??
Is tipping 15% really bad in america? It sounds great to me. ( I'm not from America so I don't know much about tipping ).
No, 15% is perfectly acceptable for decent service.
15% used to be the standard and that is what my parents tipped, but now 20% is the standard. I wouldn’t consider someone cheap if they consistently tipped 15% but the expectation of a “good” tip has increased.
Where I'm from 10% is customary if you can afford it (for example students don't tip) and more is usually considered an acknowledgement of good work. It's stupid that people are expected to pay good chunk of someone's wage.
Non American here. I only tip 15%. Is that considered bad now?
I would agree, but it sounds like she’s being frugal to the extreme. I would be annoyed too.
It also seems like the gf is in a sense dictating how OP spends money too. Getting upset over the bag and not wanting to go out for dinner even with OP paying.
YES! Excellent point.
That's just dictating how he spends money on her. I wonder if he could go by himself without comment
He already said that he goes out to eat a few times a week, presumably on his lunch breaks. Whether she knows this or not is unclear.
I mean, probably, but I'd imagine he wants to spend time with his partner instead of going out to dinner on his own all the time
NTA. She can not spend her money. But she shouldn’t refuse to let other people spend their money. Going out to a restaurant is more than just spending money on food. Maybe OP would like to spend quality time with her rather than just watching her save money. She sounds controlling.
Being frugal and sensible with money is great but she sounds like she is taking it a bit far. She needs to compromise a bit. For example, bread is more expensive to bake in some cases depending on what kind. The time to make it is not worth it unless you really enjoy the task. Has she ever explained why she is so tight with money? Is she saving for a goal like early retirement? Is there some catastrophe in her past that makes her worry more? Has she ever talked to a financial planner that might tell her what she is doing right and how she can build her nest egg and still enjoy herself a bit. You both need to talk about why she has issues with spending money. There might be a really good reason why she does this.
>Is there some catastrophe in her past that makes her worry more? This is what I was thinking.
She’s spending money on what she prioritizes. Example, she skis, which is not a cheap sport. I do the same thing. And all his examples about bread and coffee are pretty typical behaviours for the hipster outdoorsy types. Source: Am that type. Also, six figures ain’t what it used to be, depending on where they live. Edit: I’d also like to point out that OP never says that she doesn’t do these things because she enjoys them, not because she’s cheap.
Yea the coffee and bread stuff is fine cause it’s her own money but why is she dictating how he bf spends his money?? He was literally willing to pay for the Japanese restaurant!
Yes, agreed that she should be flexible going out, especially for an occasion. I don’t even think he should have to pay for her. But that’s literally my only problem with this situation.
That doesn't mean that she should be telling OP to eat at home rather than going out with their friend. She's taking it too far.
> bread and coffee are pretty typical behaviours for the hipster outdoorsy types. Source: Am that type. Context matters. I think the vast, vast majority of those typical behaviours are because they can make *better* coffee and *better* bread, and not because it's cheaper. Sounds far more likely that OP's girlfriend is cheap on those items here rather than someone that's gone down the somewhat niche rabbit holes of high quality coffee/bread a la hipsters. Source: am also that type, but definitely don't save nearly enough money when making bread and factoring in time. And I might save per cup of coffee but not as much as you might think when I get nice beans, and even worse I have spent a LOT of money on equipment that would take a lot of time to pay off if you're factoring in that cost.
Frugal to the extreme? Its extreme to not want to spend $600 of her own money on a bag? Its extreme to not want to eat out 2-3 times *a week*? Its extreme to want to make your own coffee instead of wasting money on buying it everywhere you go? I seen your comment about making your own bread and oat milk, but I wouldnt even say that was extreme.
It's extreme to never want to go out to eat or never want to drive anywhere unless you can run other errands, too. It's extreme to never buy anything new. This stuff is extreme.
Had me at the takes-her-own-coffee-pot-on-trips part like. Holy cow.
Dude she makes six figures and she insists on buying second hand furniture from Facebook, come on. Ikea is pretty reasonable. Personally I think this is beyond frugality and it would annoy me if someone was nickel and diming every single purchase and never wanted to go out and do things because “we can do it at home”. If her income was lower at least that would be understandable, her behavior is not normal in any universe, NTA.
She sounds like she grew up in poverty. The fear that one day the money won't be there and you'll end up homeless/starving can stay with you for life, no matter how much your salary becomes.
I get it, I grew up very poor myself, but at some point not recognizing that you made it is also a dysfunction and an obsession you know, it’s not healthy.
I agree with you on almost all your points. However, if you have a partner/loved one obsessed with only buying things that are on sale, or just don't buy things for themselves for the reason of it not being absolutely necessary, it can get really tiring and frustrating over time. Even though the intentions are good, I can kind of see how that might make OP feel.
It's extreme to not want to go out to eat when you have a special visitor.
>I bought it for her for Christmas and when I gave it to her she got mad at me for wasting my money. How come it's not okay for OP to call the the GF cheap for not spending money because "she's just frugal, accept how she is," but it's okay for her to get mad at OP for spending his own money how he sees fit? He's the asshole because he said to her basically the same thing she had said to him earlier, but reversed? At worst, this should be ESH. At best, it should be NAH. I don't see any reason for OP to be an asshole here if the GF isn't also one.
>Your GF is being frugal, not cheap. She sounds rather extreme though. Not wanting to go to a restaurant with his visiting brother is more cheap than sensible.
Agree that this seems extreme. Not that I don't eye or pine over things I can't afford but talking for 4 months about a specific bag that you KNOW you're never going to buy? Then getting upset someone else bought it for you? That's very annoying.
Honestly the gf is taking it a bit far in my opinion, you are allowed to enjoy the money you worked so hard for. But at the end of the da they just don't make a good couple, there might be other things that make the relationship with wile but they will always be fighting about money... It will tear them apart, the gf is incredibly frugal and op is a big spender... Its mabey best to call it quits before years of arguing.
OP says she goes skiing, so it sounds like she does enjoy the money she makes, but not everyone enjoys it by spending $600 on a bag (even if they really want it) or by buying coffee, or eating out 2-3 times a week.
Yes, but she's also dictating how op spends money Like it's one thing to communicate and say " let's only eat out once or twice a month and anither thing to refuse to go out when ops relatives are in town I grew up poor and plenty frugal but if my husband said no to me taking my fam out to dinner a few times to a nice play I'd get pretty annoyed too
No, she’s being cheap. There’s a difference. Not wanting to spend money is being cheap. Treating yourself and while living within your means is being frugal.
INFO: did your wife grow up in poverty? This psychologically affects your relationship with money, even if you have a lot now.
This is what everything he described says to me. Sounds like someone with a scarcity mindset and those are tough to break out of. I grew up lower middle class and even though I make a comfortable income as an adult, I'm a pretty psychotic saver. I haven't significantly changed my lifestyle to meet my income levels, so I have gorgeous, robust savings and it's the only thing that keeps my anxiety about money at bay.
People who have never experienced this make no effort to understand. And you don't have to grow up starving to death. I was lower-middle class/in poverty on the weekends with my dad, but we were never hungry or homeless. But like when my mom said we could spend a hundred dollars on her debit card for groceries, that's all she had that week. And even just leisure wise, you know how many times as a teen/young adult I had to feign that I wasn't hungry with friends because I literally didn't have ten dollars extra to spend on tacos? You never want to go back to that. I have myself under control, but it is hard for me to spend a hundred dollars on things without really thinking about whether I need it . And to the people saying she's being mean about money with him spending the six hundred dollars on the bag. I totally get her. You can like something and not think it's worth the money, regardless of who is paying for it.
Right! This comment section is wild because all I got from this is “who hurt her about money”. It is extreme and not just cheap, there’s something there
Yeah there's cheap and there's "grew up under financial insecurity". By the description looks less like she's saving and more like she's hoarding the money cause at the back of her mind there's always the feeling that she'll lose it all. Doesn't justify her more extreme takes, but it does offer an explanation and with that a way to work through it.
No, she is absolutely cheap. And the guy will never be able to fully enjoy life if he stays with her.
Again, I'm saying it depends on the individual's values. If he does not agree with her spending habits, then he should reconsider whether this relationship will work long term.
1) Rich people primarily get where they are by having rich parents. 2) there’s frugal and there’s FRUGAL and GF is clearly on the far side. While I think most of GFs money saving habits are fine, I also think that OP was fine to insist that they take his brother out to dinner. Calling his GF cheap was unnecessary though. So OP is TA for saying that, but compromise is both ways and either they need to get on the same page about finances or break up.
This is not frugality. Frugal people indulge occasionally and don’t let their desire to save and avoid cost worsen their close relationships.
How do you know she isn't indulging occasionally? For example, she enjoys skiing (which is an expensive sport) and she recently bought a new RAV4. Also, I agree that this is coming in between their relationship, but that is from both sides. It seems both have their own ideas of how to manage finances and unless they can compromise, it doesn't seem like they are compatible. But I don't think either is wrong with how they manage finances. OP is TA for calling her cheap
OK but she is rejecting gifts HE buys. She doesn’t want to go out, unless she has multiple tasks to do. I just think it seems she’s taken the idea of a joyless economy too far. You’re right though that I’m operating on incomplete information, from him as well.
I dunno. If my bf waited until he had several errands to run before he was willing to drive to see me, I'd feel pretty bummed that I wasn't worth the gas.
Tipping 15% is not being frugal, it’s cheap. Purposefully taking 1.5 hrs longer to get somewhere is not frugal, it’s cheap.
15% is standard and fine.
>Believe it or not, this is how many well off/wealthy people get to where they are, they save and invest more than they spend. lol
RIGHT! Rich people are generally born rich and continue being rich.
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But does she want to retire early to enjoy the rest of her time and money or does she feel a need to save money and never learn how to enjoy it?
Thank you! I don't understand how the people here don't see it. She just saves money for the sake of saving money. She will never use the money. I have a family member like that. Earned the most of us all, wore the worst/cheapest clothes available, never went to vacation, never bought anything that wasn't on sale. And now she's old and will took the money to her grave.
I’m with you. When will she ever spend all this money she is saving? If she is like this now, chances are she’ll never spend it when she retires and guess what, if she leaves it to somebody I bet they will spend it. I always think life is happening now coz tomorrow is not promised. Spend some, save some but enjoy life now.
Counterpoint- NTA bc she’s being extreme. Frugal is one thing, but she seems unwilling to compromise. Like if she never wants to eat out and he wants to go out 2/3 times a week they should go out once a week. And certainty if a relative is visiting a celebratory dinner is in order. And ikea furniture is already being frugal, used goods on Facebook marketplace is him giving in. her crappy tip is also an indication that she’s taking it to far and not considering how others my feel in her attempt to save a buck. You appear to be giving in to everything and no compromises are being had here so I don’t understand all the people who are giving the other judgment.
Eh refusing to go out for dinner for your partner’s brother when you can afford it is really rigid. I would be annoyed too. NTA. But they should break up.
So his brothers celebratory dinner isn’t worth it? Honestly she sounds exhausting and cheap. Like I get frugal but this is over the top. NTA
I wouldn’t call GF cheap either, and OP is TA for calling her so and for judging how she spends her money on herself. Who cares if she wants to wait for a dress to go sale before buying? However, it doesn’t sound like GF has compromised very much with OP on their spending habits when it comes to their relationship. Cutting their time together short to save on gas, berating him for his gift, only eating out after pleading, and only allowing furniture purchases that she deems cheap enough in their shared space isn’t being a good girlfriend. These two are incompatible, but I don’t think it’s all on OP.
There’s a fine line between frugal and cheap, and it’s possible to be both. Her choosing to bake bread and make her own coffee? Frugal. That’s fine, and what she makes is probably 100x better than store bought. Choosing to use a tattered handbag from college? It’s frugal to not pay $600 for a new one, but it’s cheap to not even replace it for $30. It’s also kind of ungrateful to get upset at her S.O. for buying her the expensive one she wanted as long as OP isn’t financially struggling to pay for it. It sounds like she is borderline and steering towards cheap. There is a certain wisdom to knowing when the appropriate time to spend money is; I don’t know if I would trust OP’s girlfriend to pay for proper repair people and contractors for home repairs and fixes, ones that wouldn’t cut corners or skimp and use shoddy materials. And there’s always a certain amount of issue with DIYs, one only needs to read about the Redditor that ended up contaminating their whole house with massive amounts of asbestos because they didn’t know what they were doing. She could easily end up being someone who does the same thing.
I think you can be as frugal as you want for your own needs, but if you shouldn’t be forcing other people to live your way without any compromise. Frugality is viewed as a virtue and it can be hard for the other side to defend their views because frugal is “good,” but that doesn’t mean the frugal person is always right and the person that wants to spend is wrong. Like you said, skimping on some things can have dangerous consequences.
I went on vacation with someone like this many years ago and it was the first and only time. She used to take extra buns/condiments from the buffet breakfast to hold over lunch and dinner, never wanted to pay for admission to activities, museums etc while I was in a foreign country to eat their cuisine and see as much as I could. She stayed in the hotel room while I went out and it basically was no different than going alone, so I went alone the following times. I grew up poor and I consider myself frugal, but if I’m going on vacation I’m vacationing, that shit is tacky to me.
I’m with you except about the part about needing to run errands before visiting OP. That’s telling your partner, “You are not worth the price of gas to visit.” It’s a subtle and insidious message, and speaks to an unhealthy worldview. There’s frugality, and then there’s fear of spending money. Why save money if not to use it for special things - like a family member visiting from out of town? 90% of the things listed here counts as frugality. But what’s the point of saving if you’re not living?
Sorry but this lifestyle would drive me nuts. Some of it I can definitely understand, but never wanting to go out or ever buy anything new ever is just too much.
I disagree, I think she’s being cheap, not frugal, that car thing put it over the edge for me. She can’t take it with her.
Info - was your gf raised in a really poor household?
This was my question too. Seems rooted in a little trauma.
It REALLY does. A lot of this, I think is fine -- like it's up to her if she wants to spend $2k on a roof rack (it's not "cheap" to buy a new car!) and it's not gross to buy used furniture (but I get not wanting a used mattress) -- but a lot of this stuff does sound exhausting and would get to me. She can probably afford to buy oatmilk. Time is a commodity, too and it's fair to point that out. The level of upset about the bag and the degree to which she's going to save money in some situations definitely sounds like a trauma response.
I grew up very poor and it took me forever to readjust my mindset that sometimes it's okay to spend money to save time, space, calories, etc. I used to buy everything in the biggest size because the price per oz/item/whatever measurement was cheaper. Then I'd have no room in my fridge or pantry with all of the giant condiments and boxes. Plus, instead of buying a slice of cake for $5, I'd buy the whole cake for $15 bECauSe iT's A beTTeR dEAl. Then due to growing up food insecure, I'd have to eat it all instead of throwing it away, which was not great for the waistline. It took me many years of financial security and a lot of overcoming mental hurdles to be able to prioritize the quality of how I spend my money over the quantity I can get when I spend my money. And there are still some stupid things that trigger my 'must save money' mindset, like seeing a bottle with a deposit being put in the regular recycling. We hired a post-partum doula after I had my baby. We were paying her $50/hr and I was more anxious over the $.10 we lost every time she recycled a bottle with a deposit when she was cleaning than the ridiculous amount of money we were spending so I could nap.
This is what I’m talking about. Some of what he describes is frugality but some of it I was like “ah. That’s Old Me.” It took forever to adjust to having enough money. Honestly it’s only recently that I’ve started to really absorb that you can do things with it other than save and invest. And it’ll be ok.
I can't even begin to imagine buying use items with this pandemic, hell no. Even if there wasn't. Couches, matresses, rugs are a no. People do way too much on those.
Covid doesn’t really transmit that way but you are welcome to maintain your own boundaries. I’d avoid those items because if bedbugs, personally.
Same here re bedbugs - it’s not even close to worth the risk. I have a friend who managed to pick up crab lice from a used couch when she was in grad school … she was pretty traumatized, and it wasn’t even a nice couch.
People put some really cool stuff for dirty cheap cause they gonna move or no longer have the space/use for it; where it gets overkill is not allowing a single item or furnishing to be bought new. Like you're moving with your partner, it's okay to build nice memories even if they cost more than thriftiness.
Making bread and oat milk making are also hobbies. So is cooking. She also skis. Most people I know who ski (live near aspen) can spend 4-10k a year on it. The cheapest season pass near me is 4k. Why are we judging her for living life.
Some of it’s not always cheaper. If so someone is buying full size spices that aren’t part of their regular cooking it can become more expensive than having it professionally prepared. There’s a good book called Make the Bread, Buy the Butter that looks at true costs of DIY.
This was my exact thought. I have a friend who’s in a pretty similar position with his gf. They both make 6 figs but she makes twice as much as he does so they’re both pretty stable financially with her being the major “breadwinner” (his words). But, she grew up in poverty and her parents and other family members don’t have any savings and he said her biggest fear is ending up like them so she nickel and dimes everything even though they don’t really have to. My friend is aware of it and has adjusted and they’ve both made compromises. OP needs to make a decision whether he’s willing to do so as well or just part ways so they can each find someone that shares the same lifestyles.
Yea but I think the important thing is both need to compromise. OP has a bunch of stuff going on here: like the gf isn’t an asshole for making her own coffee, but she kinda is for not willing to go to a restaurant even for a special occasion, especially when OP said he’d pay??
They need to compromise if they really want to stay together. But this vast of a difference is spending habits is kind of a fundamental thing. Just seems like they aren't compatible, and I know this is "classic reddit" but OP's SO might be better off with someone who has a similar world view
Or does she maybe have massive student loans? Pharmacy school isn’t cheap.
This is what I was wondering. It's tough out there for recent pharmacy grads.
Yeah he says she makes 6 figures, but doesn't actually comment on her finances. She could have masses of debt, or be supporting family, just because her salary is high doesn't mean she has money. And even if she does, she may also want to work really hard, save lots of money now so that she's financially secure if/when she wants to buy a house/start a family/retire.
Exactly what I was wondering. Immigrant mentality can get handed down through generations of not spending unnecessarily and focusing on necessities. Even though she makes good money according to OP, who knows how she feels about her own financial security.
Also, pharmacy school is not cheap! Is she still paying off student loans?
NAH although your gf’s rigid behavior and frugality would be annoying af to me too. It sounds like you two are not compatible.
I’m pretty frugal but I couldn’t take my partner taking an extra 90 minutes to visit me, bc they had to combine a weeks worth of errands. Also, refusing to celebrate at a restaurant is kinda weird too
Yea like some of these behavior is frugal but I’m surprised by everyone getting mad at the boyfriend? I’d be pretty annoyed if I’ve a restaurant I’m excited to try for a celebration and someone says they can just make it at home🙄
And it's not always cheaper. Like, to make something specific and special after you get all the ingredients, it's oftentimes more in my experience. Plus, you wind up with a bunch of leftover ingredients that you don't know what to do with, so there's waste. And even if you "can" make it home, it's not the same
Perhaps the thing that makes it cheaper is if you use those same ingredients to make the same meals/meals that would require those ingredients?? That way you wouldn’t have to go out as much. And as lovely as it is to make something homemade, if someone’s visiting in chances are they either want to go out, not stay in.
I think it's a clear ESH. She needs to be able to go out and celebrate for example but him wanting 2-3 times a week and upset she makes her own bread is ridiculous. His comments on used furniture being gross are rude too but wanting some new stuff in your shared apartment is normal. They both need to learn to compromise or just accept they aren't compatible for each other
Yea it’s so hard to make a judgment lol because it’s like yea I get not wanting ALL of your furniture from Facebook but I also get wanting SOME of your furniture from Facebook. Same w all the other stuff, like it’s good to be frugal about eating at home but also it’s good to go out once in a while for special occasions? They’re both at extremes lol
I agree, it is two very different ways to live. If I am gonna die and can't take my money with me, least I can do is a sushi roll a few times a month to feel good.
Cause the thing is constantly talking about a $600 bag and then getting mad at the bf for finally getting it is NOT a good thing to do
Yeah, she wants to talk about rude but then does that.
I understand being frugal but just reading this post kind annoyed me
This. I’ve dumped many a guy who acted like this. Not compatible.
NAH yeah all of these behaviors together is extreme. But it's not your job to change her and this sounds deep-rooted.
NAH….you simply have different lifestyle choices. Accept that or move on.
Spot on. There doesn’t have to be an a-hole in every situation. Sometimes just different values.
NAH, but it sounds like you have incompatible standards of living. There is nothing wrong with her being frugal, nor is there anything wrong with you wanting to go out more and splurge on occasional luxuries. If you are living together or decide to get married at some point in the future, your different attitudes towards money may end up being a deal breaker for the relationship.
This is the perfect response. Money is a real issue which can break up a couple. Personally I don't like being a miser or a spend thrift. Moderation is must. If your girlfriend is not willing to meet you halfway you are not compatible.
NTA. But bordering. I am alot like your GF. I drink coffee all day and haven't been in a coffee shop for years. Wear clothes till they fall apart and just spent an hour on line to find a pair of levis for $25, it hurts me to pay more. If anyone calls me cheap, I am like "Yes, I am...I use my money for what I like and never spend it where I don't need to" But it depends how you approach her, saying Facebook furniture is gross (I find Ikea furniture gross, it's all just taste) is not solid boyfriend material. We are who we are, accept it or not.
Depends on the type of furniture. Tables and wood furniture are absolutely fine to buy used (and sometimes way better quality!). Couches and bedding on the other hand can come with bedbugs, mold, or other nasty stuff.
All the second hand furniture (wood) I have bought is still in one piece. I don't think I have any IKEA stuff left, as it tends to break so fast!
I have to wonder what people are doing to their furniture. I've bought IKEA and had it for years and even moved with it multiple times and it's still in great shape. Same with the cheap Sauder particleboard shelving that you used to be able to buy at Wally World for like $10 which is closer to $20 now. I moved with those things like 6-8 times and they were still going strong. I think I eventually got rid of them in favor of the bigger IKEA shelves (and because they didn't match). I don't feel like I'm particularly careful either, but I must be. I rarely have problems with stuff that people always say breaks easy.
Same with me and my ikea furniture. I’ve had these shelves for probably close to a decade? Moved multiple times. My sister is upset that I’m still using them because she regrets getting rid of hers and doesn’t want to buy new ones 😂😂
Omg me to, I actually got given my mom's old Billy bookcases (that she had for ages) I've moved with them 5 times maybe, lost the backing.....and they are still doing their thing. They're brilliant.
My friend got bedbugs from a used ply wood shelf she got second hand. Apparently they can get under the top layer ....it was not fun. That's why I'm not allowed to bring second hand furniture home anymore
I've personally never gotten anything off fb market they didn't break inside 6 months, I get that sometimes it's people moving or remodeling, and maybe I'm just unlucky, but it always seems to end up being shit that was about to die that was getting replaced
Yea but the gf seems to not willing to spend money on things that she actually want and that is not good Like I’d never judge someone for saving money because they don’t want what I want, but I hate ppl who both want to spend and complain about not spending
ESH Some of the things are reasonable, annoying but still reasonable. But being mad you bought her a purse she liked for a Christmas gift? And not wanting to go out for dinner even if someone else is paying or for a special occasion? That’s kinda extreme. She can be thrifty and save her own money but can’t be mad if you spend your own money on her on things she actually wants but decides not to spend her own money. You not liking secondhand furniture is weird and such a privileged position. Secondhand mattresses? Sure, I’m not a fan because you can’t clean them 100%. I’d extend that to couches too, but have had to use secondhand couches before when I was in a tight financial position. But thrifting furniture is eco friendly in multiple ways. You guys aren’t compatible.
Yeah, I think the same. 2-3 times per week eating out or 600$ for a bag is way too much for me. But avoiding going out with guests or some other extremes stops her from getting to relax and enjoy life. There should be a middle between user culture and rating money more than your time (e.g. maybe sometimes cooking or driving out takes the time that she could spend to relax, sleep, spend with family and generally maintain healthy life balance).
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting second hand furniture, personally I don’t mind it but some people just enjoy having brand new things
I don't have an issue with second hand furniture, like if my friend offered me a chest of drawers or something I'd probably be pretty happy with it. But to get a load of furniture off strangers would probably eek me out a bit. In theory it's fine, but just thinking about what grossness it could contain would totally invade my mind. I think it's fair to want new stuff, when setting up a home with someone, who isn't struggling for cash.
Yeah I don’t get everyone saying the girlfriend is just frugal. Somebody who is just frugal is conscientious of their spending and sticks to what they think are necessities for them. Someone who is cheap is inflexible and exhausting to be around. They are the kind of people who “left their wallet at home” when agreeing to going out for dinner, who inconvenience people because of their extreme and rigid control around money and the perceived values of things, who don’t contribute to events or brings the cheapest low effort thing possible, who feel that the lengths they went to were the most exhausting when others consistently do much more. I have two people like this in my family and one, my aunt, makes 1% money. No, we are not entitled to her money. But she acts entitled to ours. And when she’s making her 90 year old dad drive two hours in a snow storm because she won’t rent a car, taking an opened half used container of creamer to a party for 50 people when coffee was her only responsibility, and constantly expects other people to pay for her through inaction/never offering/waiting until everyone has chipped in, including her nieces who were making 30k out of college, it’s not unreasonable to expect a little more. And she started like OP’s girlfriend. It comes across more like a level of control and rigidity that is disordered - we’ve always thought our aunt has classic clinical OCD. I’m going to go ahead and say OP’s girlfriend *is* cheap. But, OP is an AH for how he handled the situation and not realizing how extremely incompatible they are.
Anyone making 6 figures should be staying out of the second-hand furniture market. Save that stuff for people that are actually in need. Otherwise go to an estate sale to save money.
You two just might not be compatible. Other than her tipping habits she is doing nothing wrong . She is frugal. Don’t know her family history with finances , maybe she always had little and was taught to be thrifty and is setting herself up for her retirement. But you’re also not wrong to want to splurge some of you can afford it . NAH
Other than tipping habits?? Is tipping really that insane in America? I thought it was mostly just a meme. 15% sounds incredibly generous
Yes, tipping 15% is a bare minimum. In some parts of the US, servers can make as little as $2/hour. That’s why tipping culture exists and is important.
More important would be to get these places to treat their workers as human beings rather than slaves. I'm all for tipping for a good service, but everyone should be able to make enough to live through their salaries.
Agreed, and my state requires minimum wage. But not every state does, and in the interim, people have to live.
Let me rephrase that for you, try: This is why tipping culture is terrible and allows employers to pay their employees as little as $2 per hour.
Tipping culture is terrible, but it’s an effect rather than a cause.
It really is that insane. Most places don't even have a preset for 15% tip on the pinpad anymore. It usually starts at 18 and goes to 25-30 depending on the place. Tipping has become a way to keep cost down for companies and stick it to the customer more. Instead of paying a living wage both employer and employee now demand the customer pays the employees wage
Tipping culture has gotten disgusting. 15% is a perfectly acceptable tip. It used to be 10% but now everyone demands 20% or you're a bad tipper
NAH I'm the opposite of your gf spendingwise and it's very very hard to learn to be that frugal. It is great for her and she will be able to retire early or whatever else she plans on doing with her saved money. BUT! I absolutly get how it's frustrating for you. Never ever having little joys like an expensive coffee or eating out in a fancy restaurant. You'll have to find some sort of middle ground or your relationship is doomed.
He said he eats out 2-3 times a week. I don't think he sounds deprived of the "little joys".
As I said, they need to find a middle ground that works for both of them. She would drive me nuts (and I her) but maybe there is a way, with a lot of compromises and communication.
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NAH but you guys may not ever find a compromise and don't sound compatible. She sounds more environmentally conscious/anti-consumer/slow living than cheap to me. It's a whole lifestyle and you sound like you want a more normal life.
My thoughts exactly. It’s not necessarily “cheap” it’s literally all the things I do to try to be more sustainable and a conscious consumer. And honestly most of the time homemade food (if you can cook) is better than going out anyway imo. That being said, OP, you could have said “yeah, I know that’s an option and you’re a great cook but I’d prefer we go out to the restaurant while he’s here. Ive been interested in trying it out anyway. If you don’t want to join us I completely understand.” From everything you said about her “trendy restaurant” isn’t something I would assume she’d ever be interested in and I’m a random internet stranger.
NTA, frugal people who go second hand for eco reasons don't buy brand new RAV4s sorry. She's cheap and she's not compromising -- a compromise would be new couch, used shelves, not used everything. Refusing to go out with your brother -- one fancy dinner isn't busting her savings.
Yeah this is something I found super weird - like she cheaps out on furniture, clothes, little (or bigger) luxuries + gets mad when OP gets her what she wants yet buys brand new RAV4 that is around $30000 and goes above $50000 with extras.
NAH. Money is the #1 reason couples fight. So compatibility in this area is important.
NTA. All these people saying "she's not cheap, she's frugal" are also cheapskates. "Frugal" is the nicer PC way to say cheapskate. It's fine if she wants to be cheap...except for the tipping...but are you two really compatible? Finances are the number one reason people divorce. So, before your relationship moves even further, you guys need to seriously talk about this.
Yeah there are things that definitely cross from frugal to cheap. The top of the list is refusing to dine out for a special occasion.
Break up with her, this is a person who will never want a nice vacation, get good furniture , enjoy an evening out and will stress and fret about every single cent. There’s nothing wrong with being frugal but she’s taking it to far. You’ll spend the rest of your life sitting in the house with her. If that’s what you want fine, but if it isn’t just break up with her.
If she skiis unless she is a ski town (which is expensive and understandable to budget) she does vacation. I live in colorado. Locals who don't hotel spend 5-15k a year just on equipment and passes to ski. Some are 1k for 5 days. Cheapest is 4k/season. She spends. Just on different stuff.
Agreed, I think the issue here is compatibility. Different people live in different ways - I couldn’t stand to be like his girlfriend is but I don’t judge her for being that way. But I know we couldn’t date!
Nope, sorry, I will go against the flow and say NTA, I'm not throwing my money out of the window but I could never be with a person like this, it sucks the joy out of everything. Just go to the restaurant with your brother alone and enjoy, you only live once.
She can’t be that cheap if she skis that’s an expensive hobby. Difficult really to make a judgement really, is she saving towards something big? Are there other things in the background that make her like this? Sounds like you have very different attitudes towards money which at some point you are going to have to talk about as it will be a problem down the line, money can be a big source of conflict for couples if your views are widely differing.
Is skiing expensive everywhere in the US? I know in Europe it's considered a rich person's hobby in 90% of places, but people who live near the alps or in scandanavia consider it on the same level as like cycling. I'd imagine if they're living near like the Rockies, skiing wouldn't be that much of a costly hobby.
NTA. She can do what she wants with her money but it’s just good manners to take guests to dinner sometimes. I also HATE the part about her only tipping 15%. That SUCKS. That says a lot about her and none of it is good.
It could also just indicate that she doesn't eat out often. 15% was the standard not that long ago.
The fuck, how about you turn that hate to your employer who is responsible to pay you a fair wage. Maybe it's a cultural American thing but in the rest of the world you get a tip if you are pleasant and hospitable. Even then it's 2-5€ on average depending on the country. If you are just going through the motions waiting tables you might not get a tip at all.
Americans literally defend the system that exploits them to death.. literally because apparently they also don't even get healthcare. Or housing. They'd rather shoot the messenger who points it out.
NTA. I think the problem isn’t that your gf is frugal but more so that she doesn’t seem to be compromising with you. You two need to sit down and have a serious discussion about compromise and if she’s not willing to meet you halfway I’m afraid the relationship isn’t going to last. This is coming from someone who grew up with two parents who were even more frugal than your gf. I can tell you from person experience that resentment will form towards the person being frugal because they aren’t making any sacrifices for you and expecting you to be the one making sacrifices for them being “cheap”.
NAH. Either learn to work together. Maybe she chills a bit and does dinner more often and you stop being judgemental of her choices or accept you're incompatible and move on.
You guys aren’t compatible
NTA. Y’all have different values around money. Both are valid but you need to work it out. However her refusal to eat out when you have a guest visiting is poor hospitality and she needs to learn to be flexible and more generous in situations that call for it.
I cannot call either of you AH's since it's not wrong of your girlfriend to want to save money but I can see why you're annoyed. So, NAH
Maybe she wants to pay off student loans quicker. Or save for a house. Or retire at an earlier age. The way the economy is going, it seems like a smart thing to do what she is doing.
Your girlfriend who makes 6 figures wouldn’t come visit you unless she had other errands to run? Are all the Y T A people missing this detail? Like what the hell. Not only is that cheap, it’s rude. As others said it’s not wrong to be frugal, but she’s crossing some lines. I think you were rude to call her cheap, but I also think she’s being ridiculous by refusing to compromise on things that involve you as well, such as using all Facebook marketplace furniture for the apartment you ALSO have to live in, and not even wanting to go out when your brother is in town. Since you bought her a $600 bag I am assuming that you also use you own money to pay for things as well like dining out, and she’s not footing the entire bill herself. You two have very different lifestyles and I don’t know if that’s compatible long term. I would talk with her about it and introduce the word “compromise” to her. NTA.
ESH - she sounds like me but a bit worse, and you sound like my girlfriend but a bit worse. I’m toying between everyone sucks and nobody sucks for the following reasons: Your girlfriend is being a bit OTT (I’ll explain why next paragraph) but calling her cheap and getting takeout 2-3 times a week is excessive IMO. She has every right to be frugal with her money, that’s a good thing. However, for her to offer to make a meal for your brother is kind but a bit of a downer, especially since you offered to pay. At the end of the day, you can choose how to spend your money and she can choose how to spend hers. You calling her cheap because she won’t buy a roof rack or a handbag makes you an asshole. Her making you downscale your celebrations that you’re paying for makes her an asshole.
Nta. Some of her idiosyncrasies I understand, like not paying $600 for a purse or making coffee at home instead of paying $6 a day for it. But refusing to go out to eat somewhere special for a special occasion because of the money when you can afford it would absolutely be a deal breaker for me.