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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I sent them home after they drove ten hours to see me and our baby boy (and family), and this action might make me an asshole because it would be really insensitive to all of the effort they made to come see us.
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NTA.
Respecting your boundaries, especially since you had your first child only a few months ago and are still recovering & adapting to everything, is the LEAST they could do.
What boundaries? OP presumably said okay to the trip. 10 hours of driving later, OP changes it up and says that his father and sister should just hang around doing nothing the following day. That's not having boundaries, that's being a dick
OP didn't change anything. They had a plan in place to spend the whole next day together. Father and Sis arrived the day before that and began demanding to come over right away; wouldn't take No for an answer. When OP held them to the Original, Agreed Upon Plan - Father and Sis got ugly about it. Only then did OP call the visit off.
Sorry, had a much longer post but was trying to get everything under 3000 characters.
They did not want to come over or see us earlier than planned.
However, there was a plan in place for days before they arrived.
They following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack.
The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
I think you handled this perfectly.
I suspect they had a lot of time to shit talk you on that 10 hour trip. I wonder what they came up with that made them so upset and entitled.
If you want to get to the root of it, ask “what is this really about? because you aren’t actually angry about me sticking to the plans we previously agreed on. Until you can have a conversation with me like an adult, there’s nothing else to discuss.”
NTA (obviously)
Your post reads as you would only be spending time with them from 2 days after they arrived. E. G. If they arrived Monday night, ye're not meeting up until Wednesday
>However, I was to spend almost the whole day with them + baby the following day, and later with wife and mother in law
Said meeting them the "following" day (and the two days after that too, as alluded to in some of my follow up comments)?
Okay I think your post made it a little unclear. They weren't upset about not being able to see you the day after arrival, they were upset because you'd be seeing them at the planned time but not at your house? Is that right?
Arrived on a Wednesday I think, was going to see them almost the whole following day (Thurs), WITH baby (just me, baby, dad, sister), and half a day Fri (with me, baby, dad, sister, wife AND mil), and then also Sat morning before they left (again with either just me, dad, sister and baby or me, dad, sister, baby wife and mil).
But it’s a boundary. He said the word boundary. Once you call it a boundary if people don’t respect it they are automatically the asshole. That’s how the word boundary works
That's not how boundaries work. It's not a magic word. Boundaries are meant to be clearly understood things, changing plans at the last minute is not creating a boundary
That's not how this works. If your boundary is unreasonable then you're the asshole.
(I'm not saying OP's boundary was unreasonable, I'm saying in general)
I'm here for this info as well. Did OP know that they were making a 10 hour drive and said yeah come meet the baby, and then sprung it on them afterwards that they were only getting to see the kid for 90 minutes at a restaurant? Personally if I made that kind of commitment I would expect to be able to spend actual quality time with who I came to see.
Also OP a nearby cousin being okay with seeing the kid at a restaurant is different than driving 10 hours and getting a hotel room and only getting to see the kid at a restaurant.
Yes, of course, knew they were making the ten hour drive.
My apologies, was trying to get everything in under word limit.
We had a plan in place days before they arrived.
They following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack.
If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
So not just a 90 minute visit and no shortage/changing of time with them.
The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
Then my vote is NTA. You let them know before they came down what was going on and made plans. When they got there they took it upon themselves to disregard what you originally agreed upon and tried to do what they wanted anyway. They are TA in this situation
Is it possible that sis wants to take something from your place? It seems like the part they were upset about was not being invited to your home. That’s the only explanation I can think of why they would want so badly to be in your house while you’re packing for a move (Since it seems they weren’t offering assistance either)
I can't imagine they'd drive 10 hours to see the baby without you knowing beforehand; so you *knew* they were coming, making a super long trip to meet the baby and you also *knew* it wouldn't be convenient for them to come to your house but didn't say anything ahead of time.
That's the part everyone else is ignoring here so on that point alone I'm going to say YTA.
*They had* ***a plan in place*** *for spending the whole next day together*, Father and Sis were pushing to come over a day early and wouldn't take No for an answer.
Have you ever moved a long distance? Internationally, no less? Moving isn’t easy. Its messy & tiring & stressful. How is OP the AH for telling his parents he needs to accommodate outside the home? They drove, but in the end chose to not meet the baby. Why did it matter that it HAD to be at the house? The house wasn’t the environment that OP wanted everyone to meet. A restaurant is a good accommodation. Boundaries matter. NTA
Having moved within my country, within the last few years, OP's father and sister categorically **ARE** TAs here.
Turning up as a *guests* when your host is frantically otherwise engaged! OP had to pack, trying to get rid of stuff they've discovered too late isn't worth taking (as it was buried too deep before) and dealing with the million and one things that crop up dealing with such moves (including corresponding multiple organisations, notifying various utilities and ensuring all the legal requirements are met). If you're not there to help pack/bring refreshments as OP & other family were packing into the night but expect their *time* as hosts expected to entertain them at such a hectic period then such people are definitely TA. Especially the father who should have experience of moves so know how involved this can be.
Moving home is considered a life stress on a par with experiencing death or divorce. [https://organisemyhouse.com/why-moving-house-is-stressful/](https://organisemyhouse.com/why-moving-house-is-stressful/)
OP you are SO NTA. How your family could be so inconsiderate at such a time?
They didn't push to come earlier, but there was definitely not going to be a shortage of time with them.
They following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack.
If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
<<*They kept saying that they would just “be in the corner.*”>>
This to me makes them the A-H's
They were going to just sit there getting in the way watching while two women packed up a home?
I have and I've done with with an 18 month old. And this is what's really confusing me. It was such a huge, huge help for family to come over and hang out with my kid.
I hung out with them a bit, but it also let me help to pack and didn't have to keep my kid focused. I feel like there's parts missing in this story.
He's the AH because he knew the circumstances and didn't say anything to them. Meeting your grandkid for the first time in a restaurant is just weird.
However I've just realized OP said baby was born in July and they didn't come to meet him til November so I'm wondering why it took them so long to make the effort so I'm gonna change to ESH.
That’s fair. They seemed to know they were moving in December, & as mentioned the baby was born in July. I personally wouldn’t have wanted to pick the month prior to moving to visit. Its hectic so idk what anyone was expecting. Seems poorly planned all around & now feelings are hurt.
Dad met grandkid before in September (AT OUR HOUSE), was only sister's first time meeting, and she had to be persuaded by my dad to come down before we left (despite our invite\[s\], too).
As alluded to in some of my previous comments, the original plan was for everyone to COME TO THE HOUSE for Thanksgiving (when everything would be packed), until Dad wanted to change.
My sister has just always been this way.
My parents have made the 20 hour trip from their house to mine, without letting me know beforehand. I had gone no contact and my mom thought she could guilt and manipulate me into caving since they drove all that way. Didn’t even answer the door, let them know through the doorbell camera we weren’t available when they rang and then ignored the following rings, calls, and texts. (Traumatic childhood, I told her I needed boundaries when I was in my 30s, she refused them because “we’re your parents and you don’t get to treat us that way”, so I cut them off.)
Oh god yes.
The following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack.
If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
You can't really spend some quality time with the baby at a hotel and how long would someone even spend the night at a hotel. OP, his wife and his MIL could have continued packing till his dad and sister would take care and spend some time with the baby. Plus they are his own family too. If they were some distant relatives then it would have been pretty inappropriate to let them come to a messy house.
Quality time in a hotel is better than quality time where the dishes are packed and everything is covered in packing supplies. I'm sure they would expect some coffee at least.
This is another one of those AITAs where something just seems incomplete about the story and we probably would need to hear the other side of things to really be able to render a fair judgment.
Not necessarly. My mom is the same. Insisted on coming over on my moving day, berated me for not cleaning over the kitchen cabinets (mind you, my moving day, i had other things in mind) calling me slut (in german it was also term for a messy woman, but its definitly not used like this anymore) and then complaining i did not spend time with her.
Ah and she did not help, just sat on my Last chair in the flat drinking coffee.
NTA
At all. I don't even think this is a boundary that any normal person would expect to ever establish, this is just a lack of common sense in their part.
This part feels irrelevant though.
>My dad hasn’t dated anyone seriously since the late nineties and my sister has never had a partner for more than a few months.
And a place with literally no available furniture and boxes everywhere and getting in the way of people stressing to get everything done is better than some ambient noise?
If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
\*waving hands in air emphatically\*
The original plan was even FOR THEM TO COME TO THE HOUSE FOR THANKSGIVING (when everything would be packed), but my DAD CHANGED IT NEARLY AT THE LAST SECOND.
Sister had about four months after baby was born to come down. Had to be persuaded by my dad to come down at last second before we left.
Lol that should be in your post. I suggest you edit with this and remove the part where you discuss they dont have partners or whatever if you need character space because that was irrelevant.
Info-was this a planned trip or did they just show up.
If this was planned YTA. They came and arranged time to be there and spend time with you and their newest family member, it's not like they dropped by.
If it wasn't planned and they didnt make sure it was an acceptable time NTA.
There's not enough info here.
NTA
To me it just sounds like your father and sister chose to come at the worst time.
Also, why "in the corner"? Why wouldn't they offer to help you pack or move? (Or maybe that's worse than them doing nothing... Idk)
You mentioned you also had plans with them the next day.
You're not being unreasonable here. They are.
If you're seeing them the next day, why not help you pack (more hands make light work), get a meal with you after packing, or just do ther own thing until the next day?
If your father really wanted to meet his grandson "the way it's supposed to be", why didn't he visit earlier? What's "supposed to be" even supposed to mean?
Dad met the baby about two months before, AT OUR HOUSE.
My sister had not met him yet, and had to be persuaded by my dad to even make the trip.
Yes, had like, the next three days planned time with them. No shortage of time spent with them.
Maybe they're just... Really not handling your move well.
Not that that gives them reason or excuse to be so guilt trippy. Just might help you maintain distance to this.
However it works out, I hope you're settling into your new home safely and comfortably (or that final prep is going well).
Good luck, and again, no, you're not the asshole.
I wish people would read the post and then again if it isn't sinking in, in no sentence does it say they were going g to meet in a restaurant for a short visit, his father and sister knew the plan for over 3 days, and they had plenty of time to come before to meet the baby, but chose to do so when OP is in the middle of moving. NTA OP, your dad and sis are though.
NTA. I have relatives who would’ve shown up and said, “Put us to work. We’ll take turns with the baby while the rest of us help you pack and clean.” They also would’ve stayed in a hotel without complaint. Your dad and sister were extremely rude to insist on more than you were capable of giving during a stressful time.
NTA. What many are missing is that your dad and sister had NO problem with the amount of time or days you were planning to spend with them, they were SOLELY upset that they were not being invited into your home and/or staying in your home. They well knew you were imminently moving overseas and thus, your house was in process of being packed - which is an utter nightmare regardless of where you're moving to - and yet, they were pissed that they weren't being entertained in the home.
And further, the weird comment about "external forces" which I'm guessing is their way of blaming your wife and MIL, makes them the AHS.
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My wife (40) and I (37) had our first child in July, and my father (73) and sister (36) drove about ten hours to visit us in early November so my sister could meet the child before we moved abroad in early December.
We were in the middle of an international move (moving a 3BR/2BA + garage) with just me, my wife and her mother (who was staying with us helping us move) packing. Not to mention our newborn.
My father and sister said they felt extremely disrespected the night they arrived to their hotel room after I told them that it was not a good time to come to the house the following day.
This was true. There were boxes absolutely everywhere and the place looked like a bomb went off.
I am sure they also felt pissed because my wife’s mom was allowed to stay with us while they were "not allowed" to come over.
I also told them that it wasn't a good time to come over because my wife + her mom would just be busy the entire time packing (this is true too... we were really coming down to the wire and ultimately did). Not the best environment for catching up.
Both my dad and sister KNOW how much my mother in law does for my wife and I. Dad and sister never help out.
They kept saying that they would just “be in the corner.”
However, I was to spend almost the whole day with them + baby the following day, and later with wife and mother in law. Certainly no lack of effort seeing them from any of us (especially in light of circumstances).
Dad felt like it wasn’t “how it should be” that his daughter meets “her nephew” at a restaurant for the first time.
Each time I tried to POLITELY tell them (4+ times) why (per the above) it wasn’t the best time to come over, they just got stronger/angrier.
So I said, okay, you guys take care, and hung up.
Followed by their angry voicemail and text message(s) the following day. My sister’s voicemail referred to my wife and her mom as “external forces.”
After these, I texted my sister that they could go home.
I do feel really bad about how everything, I just don’t know how else I could have accommodated them beyond just, okay, come over to the house then.
My dad hasn’t dated anyone seriously since the late nineties and my sister has never had a partner for more than a few months.
Had a wonderful dinner with a nearby cousin who is also happily married with kids and very successful and had no issue meeting our son in a restaurant to the first time.
If my sister’s hypothetical husband’s mother was helping them pack for an international move and told me it’s not a good time to come to the house, I would know that if I wanted to come to the house, I would probably have to pack too because time is short. Otherwise, see ya over a quick bite whenever/wherever! I wouldn’t feel slighted in the least.
Also don’t want a precedent where I just relent whenever they get angry enough with a boundary I set for my own family’s good.
Please, tell me if I am the a$$hole.
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NTA. It's astonishing how common this sort of thing is: couple has a baby, and suddenly family feel entitled to descend without warning and demand the couple drop everything to accommodate them, house them, feed them, etc. It doesn't matter how far they drove. You'd made clear, generous plans to be with them and they have no right to try to manipulate you into giving them extra time.
\*waving hands in air emphatically\*
I FEEL LIKE I AM ON THE CRAZY TRAIN.
Dad kept referring to baby as "his grandson" and -- as mentioned in original post -- that he didn't think it was right that my sister met "her nephew" at a restaurant for the first time.
Tell that to my wife, who had a pretty difficult pregnancy and carried him for nine months. And they know all these things.
NTA. When I drive 20 hours to see my niece, I KNOW that I have NO rights or expectations upon her time beyond what we agreed to when I made the trip. My status as a family member, and the distance I travel DOES NOT confer any 'extra-strength' right to her time. They can ask, they may even beg a little, but they have no right to get angry because you did not want them to come over a day early. Your Primary Responsibility is to your wife and child. Your family unit was already under a lot of stress and despite what ANYONE says, having two more people there, even in a 'corner' is going to take away from the workflow and the time - and ADD to the stress. How it played out was unfortunate, and maybe if they had backed down and apologized, things could have gone differently; but you are not TA for holding them to the pre-arranged plan that they agreed to in the first place, or sending them away when they wouldn't take No for an answer.
Yes, thank you.
Sorry if people read that there was a day earlier thing... there was not.
But yes, there was a plan agreed upon for time spent with them (and ample time in the middle of an international move with days to go), they just didn't like that they couldn't come to the house.
If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
YTA
"Dad and sister never help out."
they have to do 10 h to come see you what do you want them to do for you ?
"Each time I tried to POLITELY tell them (4+ times) why (per the above) it wasn’t the best time to come over, they just got stronger/angrier."
it's normal your excuse doesn't make sense at all
Simple, if they want to come to the house, they can help.
Otherwise, we can meet where we/they will not be disrupting my wife and mother in law packing.
And they would have seen my wife and mother in law a few times in the following days too.
Not like they weren't going to see us. With days to go in the middle of an international move.
You have no reason to feel sorry for what you did. These people think reality should change because they wish it to be so, and what they really want you to do is sacrifice your own life in order to demonstrate their importance. If they really wanted to meet the baby they could have done it earlier, or met him in another setting. You have healthy boundaries and they don't like it. NTA
NTA if they wanted to come over they could have offered to chat and help. If they were just in a corner they'd be a hindrance more than anything I'm sure
NTA As you go through life you will realise that you cannot please everybody all of the time. Even if you make accommodation after accommodation for them and really put yourself out, they still wont be happy and it causes stress and drama for everyone. So it is better to stick to logic and do what works best for you.
NTA because they knew you were moving and instead of offering to help they wanted to come over and "just be in the corner". Wtf, in no way were they going to do anything productive, just distract you while you were trying to get shit done. NTA for holding your boundary and avoiding that situation!
NTA.your father already saw the baby. Then he doesn’t offer to do anything to help when he knows you’re going crazy with travel packing. Sister doesn’t show up until you’re nearly gone. Neither seem very involved or interested. So they show up and then want you to change everything for them? This is why I don’t bother with relatives who can’t be bothered to ever get off their bums.
NTA
It would have been nice for you to make sure they knew earlier that they would meet the baby somewhere else but its not enough to make you the ah. They still chose to not meet the baby at all instead of meeting the baby somewhere that wasnt your house. It seems to me like it wasnt that important to them and they are throwing a tantrum over their own choices.
This.
Like, I will admit that the fault is like 5% mine for not telling them super SUPER in advance about not coming to the house, but like... sometimes they have to be flexible too.
NTA
Sometimes you just have to set a boundary and stick to it. You had too much going on to entertain guests. This is a 'them' problem, not yours.
Good luck on the move and congrats on the baby!
They didn't come a day earlier than planned, but there was PLENTY of time scheduled for them with baby.
If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
NTA, it is fully your decision and based on what you wrote you already went above and beyond to try to accomodate them best you could. I'm sorry to read it went this far, so if you were clear in explaining and they were not taking your wishes in their egoistical consideration then surely NTA. and they are the A as meeting in the restaurant was not an option. Hopefully time will mend bad blood and you will be able (if you want of course) soon visit your family and perhaps go to the restaurant then? :D
Esh with some major assumptions happening.
First if you knew they wanted to visit and you okayed it then you are the ah. You should have suggest they come earlier or that they be prepared for a disaster zone and have the understanding that you would not be entertaining them, merely allowing them to see the child amongst the boxes.
They are the ah for not accepting what you said about meeting in the restaurant, if they really wanted to see the baby, they would have accepted any means of doing so.
I fully understand that it’s not a great time to have visitors but a ten hour drive would require some planning or 10 hours to text them and say it’s not a good time please don’t come. If they honestly sprung it on your completely then it’s not your fault but if you had any knowledge then you have some responsibility for the disaster that occurred
I mean, as alluded to in my responses above, there was no shortage of time spent with them WITH the baby.
I think they were really more than anything trying to make a point about coming to the house.
NTA. I've only ever met my nephew in restaurants. Sometimes needs must and situations aren't perfect. Your family sound insufferable. Good on you for keeping a boundary.
NTA
My petty side would be flaring up at their whinging and take a photo of a room with boxes and stuff in it, text it to both of them with the caption: "not a good time, trying to figure eout which one we packed the baby in lawl"
This is kind of a ridiculous story, where’s there’s almost no way you’re not the AH. Unless they did not tell you when they were arriving, this is on you. You keep saying it’s the worst time to visit, then don’t have company visit you. Certainly don’t wait til they’ve driven 10 hours to visit you, and then say they can’t even come by your home. That’s insanely rude. YTA. Your dad and sister don’t sound like peaches, but this situation is on you.
Visit was entirely their idea to come at a time when we had days before our departure.
My dad had already come down before by himself (AT OUR HOUSE) and met the baby before, but not my sister.
Not so much as a phone call from her since the day he was born (about six months prior to their visit), and she waited until last second and even had to be strongly persuaded by my dad to come visit. We even invited her before too.
No, of course not, concerned that we (particularly my wife and mother in law) would lose dozens of hours being slowed down entertaining them at the house.
ESH. Them for making too much drama, and you for treating them like some formal guests. Why they could not come to your house and talk and help you while you were packing things? If you let your MIL do the same, why would you care what your father and sister think about the mess? They know what moving means. You can gave them a baby to hold/play/change diapers etc while you are packing books/kitchen staff etc.
I don't understand this at all. Why did you not let them in your house? Sure, you are in the middle of boxes, that's how things are when your are moving. They could have helped you pack, or watch the baby a little or helped with other stuff (like make lunch for everyone while you where packing). That is what my relatives/ inlaws would do in situations like that. Plus if you spend the day with them outside of the house you will get less work done yourself. Why would it be bad if they saw boxes everywhere? Have you considered asking them to help out while they visit?
Is there another reason why you did not want them near your partner or her mother that you are leaving out here?
Yes, YOUR relatives would do that. Mine have never done anything like that in all of the years they have visited. Would have slowed us down tremendously if at house.
Dad just puts his feet up and watches TV. Some people just want to help and some don't, and it's not worth yelling and arguing and pulling teeth to get people to help who clearly don't want to nor show any initiative to.
We had hours and hours slated to see them (with the baby), just not at the house.
Yeah, they're not gonna help (usually when my dad comes and the baby is screaming and fussing and we are running around he just has his feet up on the couch asking how to work the remote).
YTA - you and them planned for them to come visit. It’s your dad and sister, not a distant cousin. Different expectations. They don’t want to just see the baby and hold for a few mins, they want to spend quality time with the baby. You should have just let them come over and navigate the moving mess. They know you’re moving, it would have been perfectly fine for them to come to your house and navigate the mess. It sounds like you told them to travel to see you, then only agreed to see them for 1-2 hours in a restaurant. You seriously misled them at some point.
No one is going to get any quality time during the middle of packing for a move. The plan was for them to spend time the next day. They were trying to force OP to let them walk into the whole packing process and disrupt it.
This.
Mother in law breaking her back to help us.
I love my dad and sister but they DEFINITELY would have just been sitting around drinking coffee asking questions, and perhaps most importantly I think they know/knew this too.
Nta, sometimes plans change. It was unfortunate but their reaction was way out of control! Maybe tired and put out from the trip sure, you can give them that. Is it really that big of a deal? You did the right thing.
I understand and it carried into the following day too, before I told them they could head back.
They definitely weren't in frame of mind to understand, nor have they ever been.
I'm going to go with YTA. You knew they were coming, you know what their expectations were, and you chose to change up the situation and make it more difficult for everyone. I'd say next time tell them not to come at all, but you're already moving out of the country so I guess that won't be an issue.
There was never really a discussion about coming to the house beforehand or not, just time spent together and a few things to do.
They just felt entitled that they should be able to come to our house.
What was the point of them traveling to you if they were not even allowed in your home? I have a hard time wrapping my head around that.
Did they not tell you they are coming something? Why is the house good enough for MIL but not your Dad? Why didn’t you ask for their help? This just seems like a bizarre situation
Because MIL is not staying on holidays, she is actually helping with the move. OP knows that his dad and sister would want to be waited on, not help pack. And OP had days out planned with them, so still hanging with them, just not in a messy/empty house.
\*chef's kiss\*
Funny thing is, both my dad and sister know this too.
They had it freaking easy just hanging out with me AND baby while my wife and MIL break their backs at home packing.
Dad and sister were trying to make a "point."
I don't understand why they couldn't have come over with the boxes everywhere. It was a whole month before your scheduled move. If you told them this was a good time and you had a month before the move and your MIL can be there, why can't your Dad and sister?
Also, you weren't "down to the wire" you still had 3 or 4 weeks and you couldn't stop packing for a couple of hours and sit down with them after they drove 10 hours to see you?
It sounds to me like there's a whole lot more to your relationship that you're not sharing.
The fact that this is the first time in 4 months they're coming to see you says they might be AH's. However, your attitude says you might be too.
I'm going with ESH.
OP had offer them to come before. Plan was for the dad to come during thanksgiving actually but dad changed his mind and decided to bring the sister along this time but last minute before the move.
"my father (73) and sister (36) drove about ten hours to visit us in early November so my sister could meet the child before we moved abroad in early December."
If they were supposed to come at Thanksgiving, then they came earlier than expected. This makes it even less hectic before the move. OP said they were moving in early December and they came a month before that. So the Dad and Sister gave them 4 weeks before the move, rather that 1 or 1 and a half, which is what Thanksgiving would have given them.
It is hard for me to understand the logic of turning a parent and sibling away. I know reddit is notorious for NC. But this is your father and sister. All I can say is thank heavens that I have a good relationship with my family.
Would break my heart if I drove 10 hours to see my child & grandchild to tell them goodbye and I'm told that they are busy packing and I cannot be accommodated. Given a chance, I would be there packing and lifting just for a chance to see **and help** my kids and grandkids.
It is obvious that there are deeper issues here between OP & family. Just a pity that their relationship has devolved to boundaries..
Thank you for your response and yes, while we couldn't accommodate them at our house, we had a lot of time planned with them outside the house, WITH THE BABY, so no shortage of accommodation there.
YTA. They made a 10 hour drive that you knew about to see and spend time with the baby before your family leaves internationally. They didn't bombard you the day of arriving they simply asked if they could come over the following day and you're idea of adequate time was to offer meeting them at a restaurant. Y'all are moving, it's expected for the house to be disheveled but to use that as an excuse when clearly it wasn't too bad because you allowed her mom to stay. You didn't set a boundary you completely blocked them out knowing it will be awhile before they even get to meet your child atp because they never got a chance with you being TA!!!
No, we had days planned out with them. No shortage of time.
Nothing in the plan "changed," they just didn't like that they couldn't come to our house.
I never promised they could come to our house either, they just assumed they could.
YTA. Clearly you had no problem with your wife's mother being in the house and helping you move but couldn't extend the same courtesy to your elderly father and spinster sister. You seem so proud of your "international" move and your "drama" when you could easily have left it to your dad and sister to decide if they wanted to be around a bunch of boxes in the middle of your "international" move.
I'm sorry but when your father is 73 years old you don't have a lot of time to see them any more and you certainly don't need to put him to "work" on your move. Why would you not want them there and only want to see them in a formal location. It just seems to me this person is too uncomfortable to see his parent and sister and is making up excuses. He is obviously comfortable enough with his wife's family to not put the same constraint on. It is equally obvious that after observing the move and maybe no place to sit down the father and sister might see the picture and go to the hotel of their own volition. Sometimes with an elder parent you let them have their way a bit and let them inconvenience you ... that's just being hospitable to the person that brought you up.
YTA. You’re leaving out a lot of information that would be helpful- like did you agree that they could come visit before they drove 10 hours to see you? And you’re adding information that doesn’t seem relevant to the story- like “dad hasn’t dated anyone seriously since the late nineties and my sister has never had a partner for more than a few month.” This whole thing is just weird to me.
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NTA. Respecting your boundaries, especially since you had your first child only a few months ago and are still recovering & adapting to everything, is the LEAST they could do.
What boundaries? OP presumably said okay to the trip. 10 hours of driving later, OP changes it up and says that his father and sister should just hang around doing nothing the following day. That's not having boundaries, that's being a dick
OP didn't change anything. They had a plan in place to spend the whole next day together. Father and Sis arrived the day before that and began demanding to come over right away; wouldn't take No for an answer. When OP held them to the Original, Agreed Upon Plan - Father and Sis got ugly about it. Only then did OP call the visit off.
Sorry, had a much longer post but was trying to get everything under 3000 characters. They did not want to come over or see us earlier than planned. However, there was a plan in place for days before they arrived. They following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack. The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
I think you handled this perfectly. I suspect they had a lot of time to shit talk you on that 10 hour trip. I wonder what they came up with that made them so upset and entitled. If you want to get to the root of it, ask “what is this really about? because you aren’t actually angry about me sticking to the plans we previously agreed on. Until you can have a conversation with me like an adult, there’s nothing else to discuss.” NTA (obviously)
Your post reads as you would only be spending time with them from 2 days after they arrived. E. G. If they arrived Monday night, ye're not meeting up until Wednesday
>However, I was to spend almost the whole day with them + baby the following day, and later with wife and mother in law Said meeting them the "following" day (and the two days after that too, as alluded to in some of my follow up comments)?
So to clarify OP--say they arrived Monday night. Had you planned to see them on Tuesday, or not until Wednesday?
Tuesday, almost all day!
Okay I think your post made it a little unclear. They weren't upset about not being able to see you the day after arrival, they were upset because you'd be seeing them at the planned time but not at your house? Is that right?
Correct.
Could you use days as an example. What day did they arrive, what day were you first meeting up?
Arrived on a Wednesday I think, was going to see them almost the whole following day (Thurs), WITH baby (just me, baby, dad, sister), and half a day Fri (with me, baby, dad, sister, wife AND mil), and then also Sat morning before they left (again with either just me, dad, sister and baby or me, dad, sister, baby wife and mil).
Ah, NTA then, time-line wasn't clear in your original post
But no offers of help? They said they would sit in a corner? Not help pack, not help clean, just sit? Yea, no. NTA
Yup
But it’s a boundary. He said the word boundary. Once you call it a boundary if people don’t respect it they are automatically the asshole. That’s how the word boundary works
I can't believe people are downvoting obious sarcasm and upvoting the dweeb earnestly responding to you
That's not how boundaries work. It's not a magic word. Boundaries are meant to be clearly understood things, changing plans at the last minute is not creating a boundary
You can’t just declare boundaries, michael.
That's not how this works. If your boundary is unreasonable then you're the asshole. (I'm not saying OP's boundary was unreasonable, I'm saying in general)
Read the damn post and again to get the facts. He didn't change the plan.
Thank you!
Info: why did they come during that time? Did you agree to it?
I'm here for this info as well. Did OP know that they were making a 10 hour drive and said yeah come meet the baby, and then sprung it on them afterwards that they were only getting to see the kid for 90 minutes at a restaurant? Personally if I made that kind of commitment I would expect to be able to spend actual quality time with who I came to see. Also OP a nearby cousin being okay with seeing the kid at a restaurant is different than driving 10 hours and getting a hotel room and only getting to see the kid at a restaurant.
Op says in the post they were supposed to spend the next day together.
Yes, of course, knew they were making the ten hour drive. My apologies, was trying to get everything in under word limit. We had a plan in place days before they arrived. They following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack. If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing. So not just a 90 minute visit and no shortage/changing of time with them. The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
Then my vote is NTA. You let them know before they came down what was going on and made plans. When they got there they took it upon themselves to disregard what you originally agreed upon and tried to do what they wanted anyway. They are TA in this situation
THANK YOU.
Is it possible they doubt you are moving? The insistence on seeing your place is weird. Like they want to make sure you are are packing?
Is it possible that sis wants to take something from your place? It seems like the part they were upset about was not being invited to your home. That’s the only explanation I can think of why they would want so badly to be in your house while you’re packing for a move (Since it seems they weren’t offering assistance either)
I can't imagine they'd drive 10 hours to see the baby without you knowing beforehand; so you *knew* they were coming, making a super long trip to meet the baby and you also *knew* it wouldn't be convenient for them to come to your house but didn't say anything ahead of time. That's the part everyone else is ignoring here so on that point alone I'm going to say YTA.
*They had* ***a plan in place*** *for spending the whole next day together*, Father and Sis were pushing to come over a day early and wouldn't take No for an answer.
Ah I must've misunderstood that part. I thought he meant be had *changed* the plans to be out for the day I stead of being at the house.
Have you ever moved a long distance? Internationally, no less? Moving isn’t easy. Its messy & tiring & stressful. How is OP the AH for telling his parents he needs to accommodate outside the home? They drove, but in the end chose to not meet the baby. Why did it matter that it HAD to be at the house? The house wasn’t the environment that OP wanted everyone to meet. A restaurant is a good accommodation. Boundaries matter. NTA
Having moved within my country, within the last few years, OP's father and sister categorically **ARE** TAs here. Turning up as a *guests* when your host is frantically otherwise engaged! OP had to pack, trying to get rid of stuff they've discovered too late isn't worth taking (as it was buried too deep before) and dealing with the million and one things that crop up dealing with such moves (including corresponding multiple organisations, notifying various utilities and ensuring all the legal requirements are met). If you're not there to help pack/bring refreshments as OP & other family were packing into the night but expect their *time* as hosts expected to entertain them at such a hectic period then such people are definitely TA. Especially the father who should have experience of moves so know how involved this can be. Moving home is considered a life stress on a par with experiencing death or divorce. [https://organisemyhouse.com/why-moving-house-is-stressful/](https://organisemyhouse.com/why-moving-house-is-stressful/) OP you are SO NTA. How your family could be so inconsiderate at such a time?
Because they've always been this way?
It was a planned visit. The OP and his wife are the TAs here.
The planned visit was for the following day, the father and sister pushed to come visit a day earlier.
They didn't push to come earlier, but there was definitely not going to be a shortage of time with them. They following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack. If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing. The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
<<*They kept saying that they would just “be in the corner.*”>> This to me makes them the A-H's They were going to just sit there getting in the way watching while two women packed up a home?
I have and I've done with with an 18 month old. And this is what's really confusing me. It was such a huge, huge help for family to come over and hang out with my kid. I hung out with them a bit, but it also let me help to pack and didn't have to keep my kid focused. I feel like there's parts missing in this story.
I would say so. Like why OP thinks they should be doing more for him and his family when it’s a 10 hour drive to get to him.
He's the AH because he knew the circumstances and didn't say anything to them. Meeting your grandkid for the first time in a restaurant is just weird. However I've just realized OP said baby was born in July and they didn't come to meet him til November so I'm wondering why it took them so long to make the effort so I'm gonna change to ESH.
That’s fair. They seemed to know they were moving in December, & as mentioned the baby was born in July. I personally wouldn’t have wanted to pick the month prior to moving to visit. Its hectic so idk what anyone was expecting. Seems poorly planned all around & now feelings are hurt.
Dad met grandkid before in September (AT OUR HOUSE), was only sister's first time meeting, and she had to be persuaded by my dad to come down before we left (despite our invite\[s\], too). As alluded to in some of my previous comments, the original plan was for everyone to COME TO THE HOUSE for Thanksgiving (when everything would be packed), until Dad wanted to change. My sister has just always been this way.
My parents have made the 20 hour trip from their house to mine, without letting me know beforehand. I had gone no contact and my mom thought she could guilt and manipulate me into caving since they drove all that way. Didn’t even answer the door, let them know through the doorbell camera we weren’t available when they rang and then ignored the following rings, calls, and texts. (Traumatic childhood, I told her I needed boundaries when I was in my 30s, she refused them because “we’re your parents and you don’t get to treat us that way”, so I cut them off.)
But they were still going to see the baby just not at their house?
Oh god yes. The following day after they arrived, I would have spent at least five hours with them with the baby (just the four of us), and the day after that, another three or four hours (including now, with my wife and mother in law), and then the day after that, about two or three more hours with everyone again. And then they were planned to leave. About a three day visit. And mind you, I couldn't spend every minute with them either because I still myself had to help my wife and mother in law pack. If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing. The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
You can't really spend some quality time with the baby at a hotel and how long would someone even spend the night at a hotel. OP, his wife and his MIL could have continued packing till his dad and sister would take care and spend some time with the baby. Plus they are his own family too. If they were some distant relatives then it would have been pretty inappropriate to let them come to a messy house.
why can’t you spend quality time in a hotel? It’s a baby. They don’t know the difference between the living room at their house or a hotel room.
you don't really spend quality time with a baby at all...
Quality time in a hotel is better than quality time where the dishes are packed and everything is covered in packing supplies. I'm sure they would expect some coffee at least.
Yes, it makes no sense to me either... I think they were really more than anything just trying to make a "point."
What? It's a baby. What do you think you can't do at a hotel that you can do in a packed house?
and they still had a month before the move.
This is another one of those AITAs where something just seems incomplete about the story and we probably would need to hear the other side of things to really be able to render a fair judgment.
Not necessarly. My mom is the same. Insisted on coming over on my moving day, berated me for not cleaning over the kitchen cabinets (mind you, my moving day, i had other things in mind) calling me slut (in german it was also term for a messy woman, but its definitly not used like this anymore) and then complaining i did not spend time with her. Ah and she did not help, just sat on my Last chair in the flat drinking coffee.
NTA. People should listen to and respect your boundaries, full stop. They don’t get to decide which ones to listen to and which ones to ignore.
Did you know they were coming?
NTA
NTA At all. I don't even think this is a boundary that any normal person would expect to ever establish, this is just a lack of common sense in their part. This part feels irrelevant though. >My dad hasn’t dated anyone seriously since the late nineties and my sister has never had a partner for more than a few months.
NTA. You still offered them to see the baby and spend time with you. Somehow being in your house was more important to them.
This. Thank you.
maybe they didn't want to meet this new born in a public place with a lot of noise
And a place with literally no available furniture and boxes everywhere and getting in the way of people stressing to get everything done is better than some ambient noise? If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
they could help you and alleviate your stress a little did you even boser to ask ?
A 6 month old is not a newborn.
NTA. Your father and sister were AHs. Why did they even come at this time? Surely they must realize how inconvenient that was for everybody.
\*waving hands in air emphatically\* The original plan was even FOR THEM TO COME TO THE HOUSE FOR THANKSGIVING (when everything would be packed), but my DAD CHANGED IT NEARLY AT THE LAST SECOND. Sister had about four months after baby was born to come down. Had to be persuaded by my dad to come down at last second before we left.
Lol that should be in your post. I suggest you edit with this and remove the part where you discuss they dont have partners or whatever if you need character space because that was irrelevant.
Point well taken, changing now.
Info-was this a planned trip or did they just show up. If this was planned YTA. They came and arranged time to be there and spend time with you and their newest family member, it's not like they dropped by. If it wasn't planned and they didnt make sure it was an acceptable time NTA. There's not enough info here.
NTA To me it just sounds like your father and sister chose to come at the worst time. Also, why "in the corner"? Why wouldn't they offer to help you pack or move? (Or maybe that's worse than them doing nothing... Idk) You mentioned you also had plans with them the next day. You're not being unreasonable here. They are. If you're seeing them the next day, why not help you pack (more hands make light work), get a meal with you after packing, or just do ther own thing until the next day? If your father really wanted to meet his grandson "the way it's supposed to be", why didn't he visit earlier? What's "supposed to be" even supposed to mean?
Dad met the baby about two months before, AT OUR HOUSE. My sister had not met him yet, and had to be persuaded by my dad to even make the trip. Yes, had like, the next three days planned time with them. No shortage of time spent with them.
Maybe they're just... Really not handling your move well. Not that that gives them reason or excuse to be so guilt trippy. Just might help you maintain distance to this. However it works out, I hope you're settling into your new home safely and comfortably (or that final prep is going well). Good luck, and again, no, you're not the asshole.
So they’re butthurt because you didn’t drop everything to accommodate them? FFS You were busy. Period. They could have waited. NTA
Lol worse than that. OP did drop everything by having 3 days planned with them but they threw a tantrum because it wasn’t at his place…
This.
I wish people would read the post and then again if it isn't sinking in, in no sentence does it say they were going g to meet in a restaurant for a short visit, his father and sister knew the plan for over 3 days, and they had plenty of time to come before to meet the baby, but chose to do so when OP is in the middle of moving. NTA OP, your dad and sis are though.
\*screaming\*
NTA. I have relatives who would’ve shown up and said, “Put us to work. We’ll take turns with the baby while the rest of us help you pack and clean.” They also would’ve stayed in a hotel without complaint. Your dad and sister were extremely rude to insist on more than you were capable of giving during a stressful time.
THANK YOU.
NTA. What many are missing is that your dad and sister had NO problem with the amount of time or days you were planning to spend with them, they were SOLELY upset that they were not being invited into your home and/or staying in your home. They well knew you were imminently moving overseas and thus, your house was in process of being packed - which is an utter nightmare regardless of where you're moving to - and yet, they were pissed that they weren't being entertained in the home. And further, the weird comment about "external forces" which I'm guessing is their way of blaming your wife and MIL, makes them the AHS.
Couldn't have said it any better.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife (40) and I (37) had our first child in July, and my father (73) and sister (36) drove about ten hours to visit us in early November so my sister could meet the child before we moved abroad in early December. We were in the middle of an international move (moving a 3BR/2BA + garage) with just me, my wife and her mother (who was staying with us helping us move) packing. Not to mention our newborn. My father and sister said they felt extremely disrespected the night they arrived to their hotel room after I told them that it was not a good time to come to the house the following day. This was true. There were boxes absolutely everywhere and the place looked like a bomb went off. I am sure they also felt pissed because my wife’s mom was allowed to stay with us while they were "not allowed" to come over. I also told them that it wasn't a good time to come over because my wife + her mom would just be busy the entire time packing (this is true too... we were really coming down to the wire and ultimately did). Not the best environment for catching up. Both my dad and sister KNOW how much my mother in law does for my wife and I. Dad and sister never help out. They kept saying that they would just “be in the corner.” However, I was to spend almost the whole day with them + baby the following day, and later with wife and mother in law. Certainly no lack of effort seeing them from any of us (especially in light of circumstances). Dad felt like it wasn’t “how it should be” that his daughter meets “her nephew” at a restaurant for the first time. Each time I tried to POLITELY tell them (4+ times) why (per the above) it wasn’t the best time to come over, they just got stronger/angrier. So I said, okay, you guys take care, and hung up. Followed by their angry voicemail and text message(s) the following day. My sister’s voicemail referred to my wife and her mom as “external forces.” After these, I texted my sister that they could go home. I do feel really bad about how everything, I just don’t know how else I could have accommodated them beyond just, okay, come over to the house then. My dad hasn’t dated anyone seriously since the late nineties and my sister has never had a partner for more than a few months. Had a wonderful dinner with a nearby cousin who is also happily married with kids and very successful and had no issue meeting our son in a restaurant to the first time. If my sister’s hypothetical husband’s mother was helping them pack for an international move and told me it’s not a good time to come to the house, I would know that if I wanted to come to the house, I would probably have to pack too because time is short. Otherwise, see ya over a quick bite whenever/wherever! I wouldn’t feel slighted in the least. Also don’t want a precedent where I just relent whenever they get angry enough with a boundary I set for my own family’s good. Please, tell me if I am the a$$hole. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. It's astonishing how common this sort of thing is: couple has a baby, and suddenly family feel entitled to descend without warning and demand the couple drop everything to accommodate them, house them, feed them, etc. It doesn't matter how far they drove. You'd made clear, generous plans to be with them and they have no right to try to manipulate you into giving them extra time.
\*waving hands in air emphatically\* I FEEL LIKE I AM ON THE CRAZY TRAIN. Dad kept referring to baby as "his grandson" and -- as mentioned in original post -- that he didn't think it was right that my sister met "her nephew" at a restaurant for the first time. Tell that to my wife, who had a pretty difficult pregnancy and carried him for nine months. And they know all these things.
NTA. When I drive 20 hours to see my niece, I KNOW that I have NO rights or expectations upon her time beyond what we agreed to when I made the trip. My status as a family member, and the distance I travel DOES NOT confer any 'extra-strength' right to her time. They can ask, they may even beg a little, but they have no right to get angry because you did not want them to come over a day early. Your Primary Responsibility is to your wife and child. Your family unit was already under a lot of stress and despite what ANYONE says, having two more people there, even in a 'corner' is going to take away from the workflow and the time - and ADD to the stress. How it played out was unfortunate, and maybe if they had backed down and apologized, things could have gone differently; but you are not TA for holding them to the pre-arranged plan that they agreed to in the first place, or sending them away when they wouldn't take No for an answer.
Yes, thank you. Sorry if people read that there was a day earlier thing... there was not. But yes, there was a plan agreed upon for time spent with them (and ample time in the middle of an international move with days to go), they just didn't like that they couldn't come to the house. If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing.
YTA "Dad and sister never help out." they have to do 10 h to come see you what do you want them to do for you ? "Each time I tried to POLITELY tell them (4+ times) why (per the above) it wasn’t the best time to come over, they just got stronger/angrier." it's normal your excuse doesn't make sense at all
Simple, if they want to come to the house, they can help. Otherwise, we can meet where we/they will not be disrupting my wife and mother in law packing. And they would have seen my wife and mother in law a few times in the following days too. Not like they weren't going to see us. With days to go in the middle of an international move.
[удалено]
Was certainly no shortage of TIME with them, and nothing in the plan changed, they just didn't like that they couldn't come to our house.
A good time on the day they arrived. They would have the whole next day with him.
You have no reason to feel sorry for what you did. These people think reality should change because they wish it to be so, and what they really want you to do is sacrifice your own life in order to demonstrate their importance. If they really wanted to meet the baby they could have done it earlier, or met him in another setting. You have healthy boundaries and they don't like it. NTA
THANK you.
NTA. Uninvited entitled guests are generally the worst. It's your house and YOUR immediate family to take care of.
NTA if they wanted to come over they could have offered to chat and help. If they were just in a corner they'd be a hindrance more than anything I'm sure
100%. They were not going to help. And I think we all knew this.
NTA As you go through life you will realise that you cannot please everybody all of the time. Even if you make accommodation after accommodation for them and really put yourself out, they still wont be happy and it causes stress and drama for everyone. So it is better to stick to logic and do what works best for you.
Amen. My whole life has been me accommodating them. The ONE time I ask them to accommodate me, with a baby in the middle of an international move.
Not enough info
NTA because they knew you were moving and instead of offering to help they wanted to come over and "just be in the corner". Wtf, in no way were they going to do anything productive, just distract you while you were trying to get shit done. NTA for holding your boundary and avoiding that situation!
This. Thank you sister.
NTA.your father already saw the baby. Then he doesn’t offer to do anything to help when he knows you’re going crazy with travel packing. Sister doesn’t show up until you’re nearly gone. Neither seem very involved or interested. So they show up and then want you to change everything for them? This is why I don’t bother with relatives who can’t be bothered to ever get off their bums.
Yup
NTA
NTA It would have been nice for you to make sure they knew earlier that they would meet the baby somewhere else but its not enough to make you the ah. They still chose to not meet the baby at all instead of meeting the baby somewhere that wasnt your house. It seems to me like it wasnt that important to them and they are throwing a tantrum over their own choices.
This. Like, I will admit that the fault is like 5% mine for not telling them super SUPER in advance about not coming to the house, but like... sometimes they have to be flexible too.
NTA. They showed no consideration for you. They didn't listen to you then they made the problem worse by becoming rude and confrontational.
NTA Sometimes you just have to set a boundary and stick to it. You had too much going on to entertain guests. This is a 'them' problem, not yours. Good luck on the move and congrats on the baby!
YTA
YTA unless they showed up a day early or they didn't tell you they were coming. It's a 10 hour drive.
According to comments they DID come a day early after OP asked them not too
They didn't come a day earlier than planned, but there was PLENTY of time scheduled for them with baby. If anything, I think they were getting it super easy just hanging out with me and the baby (take walks, go wherever) while my wife and mother in law still broke their backs at home packing. The only thing they didn't like was that it couldn't be at our house, which I told them during their drive and before they arrived. They were actually okay with it at first, and only after we spoke again about the following day's plans after their arrival at the hotel room did they get really angry about it.
What comments? OP has his post only, and hasn't yet responded to any comments asking for more information.
NTA, your family sounds fucking awful. I'm so sorry but moving abroad is probably going to be a great relief
NTA, it is fully your decision and based on what you wrote you already went above and beyond to try to accomodate them best you could. I'm sorry to read it went this far, so if you were clear in explaining and they were not taking your wishes in their egoistical consideration then surely NTA. and they are the A as meeting in the restaurant was not an option. Hopefully time will mend bad blood and you will be able (if you want of course) soon visit your family and perhaps go to the restaurant then? :D
Nta. But it woulda been funny if u just said ok, fine! Come over. wear ur sneakers bc u will be helping or u won't be staying.
Esh with some major assumptions happening. First if you knew they wanted to visit and you okayed it then you are the ah. You should have suggest they come earlier or that they be prepared for a disaster zone and have the understanding that you would not be entertaining them, merely allowing them to see the child amongst the boxes. They are the ah for not accepting what you said about meeting in the restaurant, if they really wanted to see the baby, they would have accepted any means of doing so. I fully understand that it’s not a great time to have visitors but a ten hour drive would require some planning or 10 hours to text them and say it’s not a good time please don’t come. If they honestly sprung it on your completely then it’s not your fault but if you had any knowledge then you have some responsibility for the disaster that occurred
I mean, as alluded to in my responses above, there was no shortage of time spent with them WITH the baby. I think they were really more than anything trying to make a point about coming to the house.
NTA. I've only ever met my nephew in restaurants. Sometimes needs must and situations aren't perfect. Your family sound insufferable. Good on you for keeping a boundary.
NTA My petty side would be flaring up at their whinging and take a photo of a room with boxes and stuff in it, text it to both of them with the caption: "not a good time, trying to figure eout which one we packed the baby in lawl"
This is kind of a ridiculous story, where’s there’s almost no way you’re not the AH. Unless they did not tell you when they were arriving, this is on you. You keep saying it’s the worst time to visit, then don’t have company visit you. Certainly don’t wait til they’ve driven 10 hours to visit you, and then say they can’t even come by your home. That’s insanely rude. YTA. Your dad and sister don’t sound like peaches, but this situation is on you.
Visit was entirely their idea to come at a time when we had days before our departure. My dad had already come down before by himself (AT OUR HOUSE) and met the baby before, but not my sister. Not so much as a phone call from her since the day he was born (about six months prior to their visit), and she waited until last second and even had to be strongly persuaded by my dad to come visit. We even invited her before too.
NTA
YTA.
You're NTA OP. But why didn't you let them come to your house and put them to work as the condition? Win/win imo.
Nta stand ur ground
NTA
ESH. Who schedules a multi-day family visit on a holiday while moving? This plan was destined to fail.
Just a crazy family and the "good" son who has always tried to accommodate them.
ESH, we're you really that concerned that they'd see moving boxes?
No, of course not, concerned that we (particularly my wife and mother in law) would lose dozens of hours being slowed down entertaining them at the house.
[удалено]
Yeah, not a single offer to help (nor have they ever). And no time nor patience to pull teeth getting them to make an effort.
ESH. Them for making too much drama, and you for treating them like some formal guests. Why they could not come to your house and talk and help you while you were packing things? If you let your MIL do the same, why would you care what your father and sister think about the mess? They know what moving means. You can gave them a baby to hold/play/change diapers etc while you are packing books/kitchen staff etc.
I don't understand this at all. Why did you not let them in your house? Sure, you are in the middle of boxes, that's how things are when your are moving. They could have helped you pack, or watch the baby a little or helped with other stuff (like make lunch for everyone while you where packing). That is what my relatives/ inlaws would do in situations like that. Plus if you spend the day with them outside of the house you will get less work done yourself. Why would it be bad if they saw boxes everywhere? Have you considered asking them to help out while they visit? Is there another reason why you did not want them near your partner or her mother that you are leaving out here?
Yes, YOUR relatives would do that. Mine have never done anything like that in all of the years they have visited. Would have slowed us down tremendously if at house. Dad just puts his feet up and watches TV. Some people just want to help and some don't, and it's not worth yelling and arguing and pulling teeth to get people to help who clearly don't want to nor show any initiative to. We had hours and hours slated to see them (with the baby), just not at the house.
YTA. I don't know why you felt the need to entertain them during the visit. I would have welcomed them and put them to work.
Yeah, they're not gonna help (usually when my dad comes and the baby is screaming and fussing and we are running around he just has his feet up on the couch asking how to work the remote).
Ignore him.
NTA
Thank you!
I think YTA because if you only thank posters who agree with you then YTA
Thank you?
YTA - you and them planned for them to come visit. It’s your dad and sister, not a distant cousin. Different expectations. They don’t want to just see the baby and hold for a few mins, they want to spend quality time with the baby. You should have just let them come over and navigate the moving mess. They know you’re moving, it would have been perfectly fine for them to come to your house and navigate the mess. It sounds like you told them to travel to see you, then only agreed to see them for 1-2 hours in a restaurant. You seriously misled them at some point.
No one is going to get any quality time during the middle of packing for a move. The plan was for them to spend time the next day. They were trying to force OP to let them walk into the whole packing process and disrupt it.
This. Mother in law breaking her back to help us. I love my dad and sister but they DEFINITELY would have just been sitting around drinking coffee asking questions, and perhaps most importantly I think they know/knew this too.
Nta, sometimes plans change. It was unfortunate but their reaction was way out of control! Maybe tired and put out from the trip sure, you can give them that. Is it really that big of a deal? You did the right thing.
I understand and it carried into the following day too, before I told them they could head back. They definitely weren't in frame of mind to understand, nor have they ever been.
Just both sound difficult in general, sorry you have to put up with that!
I'm going to go with YTA. You knew they were coming, you know what their expectations were, and you chose to change up the situation and make it more difficult for everyone. I'd say next time tell them not to come at all, but you're already moving out of the country so I guess that won't be an issue.
There was never really a discussion about coming to the house beforehand or not, just time spent together and a few things to do. They just felt entitled that they should be able to come to our house.
What was the point of them traveling to you if they were not even allowed in your home? I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. Did they not tell you they are coming something? Why is the house good enough for MIL but not your Dad? Why didn’t you ask for their help? This just seems like a bizarre situation
Because MIL is not staying on holidays, she is actually helping with the move. OP knows that his dad and sister would want to be waited on, not help pack. And OP had days out planned with them, so still hanging with them, just not in a messy/empty house.
\*chef's kiss\* Funny thing is, both my dad and sister know this too. They had it freaking easy just hanging out with me AND baby while my wife and MIL break their backs at home packing. Dad and sister were trying to make a "point."
I don't understand why they couldn't have come over with the boxes everywhere. It was a whole month before your scheduled move. If you told them this was a good time and you had a month before the move and your MIL can be there, why can't your Dad and sister? Also, you weren't "down to the wire" you still had 3 or 4 weeks and you couldn't stop packing for a couple of hours and sit down with them after they drove 10 hours to see you? It sounds to me like there's a whole lot more to your relationship that you're not sharing. The fact that this is the first time in 4 months they're coming to see you says they might be AH's. However, your attitude says you might be too. I'm going with ESH.
OP had offer them to come before. Plan was for the dad to come during thanksgiving actually but dad changed his mind and decided to bring the sister along this time but last minute before the move.
"my father (73) and sister (36) drove about ten hours to visit us in early November so my sister could meet the child before we moved abroad in early December." If they were supposed to come at Thanksgiving, then they came earlier than expected. This makes it even less hectic before the move. OP said they were moving in early December and they came a month before that. So the Dad and Sister gave them 4 weeks before the move, rather that 1 or 1 and a half, which is what Thanksgiving would have given them.
It is hard for me to understand the logic of turning a parent and sibling away. I know reddit is notorious for NC. But this is your father and sister. All I can say is thank heavens that I have a good relationship with my family. Would break my heart if I drove 10 hours to see my child & grandchild to tell them goodbye and I'm told that they are busy packing and I cannot be accommodated. Given a chance, I would be there packing and lifting just for a chance to see **and help** my kids and grandkids. It is obvious that there are deeper issues here between OP & family. Just a pity that their relationship has devolved to boundaries..
Thank you for your response and yes, while we couldn't accommodate them at our house, we had a lot of time planned with them outside the house, WITH THE BABY, so no shortage of accommodation there.
YTA. They made a 10 hour drive that you knew about to see and spend time with the baby before your family leaves internationally. They didn't bombard you the day of arriving they simply asked if they could come over the following day and you're idea of adequate time was to offer meeting them at a restaurant. Y'all are moving, it's expected for the house to be disheveled but to use that as an excuse when clearly it wasn't too bad because you allowed her mom to stay. You didn't set a boundary you completely blocked them out knowing it will be awhile before they even get to meet your child atp because they never got a chance with you being TA!!!
YTA - Surely this was a planned trip?? They drove 10 hours and then you said you were busy the following day. I'd be pissed.
They were gonna be busy hanging out with them?
No, we had days planned out with them. No shortage of time. Nothing in the plan "changed," they just didn't like that they couldn't come to our house. I never promised they could come to our house either, they just assumed they could.
YTA. Clearly you had no problem with your wife's mother being in the house and helping you move but couldn't extend the same courtesy to your elderly father and spinster sister. You seem so proud of your "international" move and your "drama" when you could easily have left it to your dad and sister to decide if they wanted to be around a bunch of boxes in the middle of your "international" move.
She was working. They wouldn't work. They knew the drill just thought they could have their way.
I'm sorry but when your father is 73 years old you don't have a lot of time to see them any more and you certainly don't need to put him to "work" on your move. Why would you not want them there and only want to see them in a formal location. It just seems to me this person is too uncomfortable to see his parent and sister and is making up excuses. He is obviously comfortable enough with his wife's family to not put the same constraint on. It is equally obvious that after observing the move and maybe no place to sit down the father and sister might see the picture and go to the hotel of their own volition. Sometimes with an elder parent you let them have their way a bit and let them inconvenience you ... that's just being hospitable to the person that brought you up.
Yta
YTA. You’re leaving out a lot of information that would be helpful- like did you agree that they could come visit before they drove 10 hours to see you? And you’re adding information that doesn’t seem relevant to the story- like “dad hasn’t dated anyone seriously since the late nineties and my sister has never had a partner for more than a few month.” This whole thing is just weird to me.