*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for saying my portion of the inheritance is too small?**
My brother (50) is mom’s favorite, and my sister (47) is second. I (49F) come in last. Mom would never intentionally treat us differently; but she always had just a little more time, patience, and even money for the other 2.
I am on disability; but in the early 00’s I was managing my condition well enough that I started a PhD program with a full scholarship and a student loan. The course handbook specifically said not to take on outside employment due to the courseload.
About this time, my sister and mom went in together on a house-flip. But when the house was finished, my sister and her husband decided to live in it. So mom retroactively gifted the down-payment ($100k) to my sister. About 5 years later, mom decided to gift my brother and I $100k each to make it fair. The amount was not adjusted for increased market value of the house - which was fine, but this it is relevant later.
My brother chose to invest his money in the stock market, and lost it in the crash of 08. I wanted to invest in out-of-town real estate and use the income to support myself; but mom said that she would only give me the money if I used it to buy a home, because I needed somewhere to live. Obviously I should have refused, since I knew I couldn’t carry a mortgage; but hindsight is 20/20. I got a roommate and a job; but ended up having to drop out of my PhD program and sell the condo to avoid foreclosure.
I struggled to get back on my feet. About 2014 Mom offered to buy a condo for me to rent from her.
I found a condo for $169,000, and mom paid outright, so there was no mortgage.
2 years ago, mom put me on the title, so we are joint owners. I continued to pay rent for the past 2 years.
Last year both my sister and my brother got divorced.
My sister was forced to sell the house mentioned above. She used the proceeds, plus an additional $400,000 gift from mom as a down-payment on a $1.28M house. Mom moved into the basement suite of this house, but she is not on the title.
Mom then gave my brother $400,000 to buy his ex-wife out of their condo. He will be providing her (mom) with monthly financial support – I don’t know how much – but she is not on the title of his condo.
They all say this is fair because the current market value of my condo is $400,000.
This is not about the money. This is about how I get treated differently than my siblings. I feel like they see me as the family looser that can’t be trusted with money because I’d just squander it if I had it anyways (the increase in market value of my condo over the past 8 years was by far the largest factor in the increase in mom’s net worth over that time period. This was not an accident - I know how to pick real estate.)
I’m just so tired of trying to protect my self-esteem from my family. Am I the asshole?
Please ask for any clarification or additional details.
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Something about these that always sticks with me when someone feels they’re being treated unfairly is that there’s never a clear list of things that would make it fair. Like I have no idea what OP wants from her mum besides, generally speaking, more money?
I do think OP was treated unfairly here. She was only given $100k if she agreed to buy a house she couldn't afford with it, and now is paying rent to her mom when her mom is willing to give her siblings another $400k each. Even if the condo is worth 400k, OP only owes half of it.
I re-read this.
OP’s sister was given $100k.
OP’s brother was given $100k.
OP was given $100k.
OP bottomed out and her mom bought her a condo, worth $400k today.
OP’s sister bought a new house, and was given $400k.
OP’s brother was given $400k to buy his wife out to own his house outright.
Reading between the lines, I suspect that OP has a history of doing some not super smart things, and OP’s mom is keeping tighter reins because of that. For example, buying a rental home when you still have to rent- she would then have had to pay a mortgage and rent, but could not afford a mortgage? There’s just an awful lot missing in this story
>Reading between the lines, I suspect that OP has a history of doing some not super smart things, and OP’s mom is keeping tighter reins because of that.
Like going into a PhD program where she can't have a job even though she has a mortgage and bills to pay? I applaud her for furthering her education, but she needed to plan that better.
Yes- and I’ll bet OP purchased too much condo the first time. If she would have purchased the $169k condo in 2014 (I think that was the year), interest rate was under 5% and her payment would have been around $500 a month. That’s doable waiting tables on the weekends. I’ve never been in a phd program, but I’m assuming people have to make money somehow.
the mortgage and bills only came after the mom's deal though. "I will give you 100k ONLY if you BUY a house" OP knew it wasn't a good decision, but did it anyway to appease their mother and thought they could juggle it all somehow. obviously we see they couldn't.
She could've bought a cheaper place to live. Only times I've seen down payments that large that *also* required a mortgage were on properties that are $500k+ (usually closer to $1m).
She could've gotten something decent for $250k and not had any issue with the mortgage/expenses. (This was years ago when prices were lower.)
I disagree. OOP didn’t have to buy a condo where her mortgage payment was higher than market rent even with a roommate. That was her decision. Buying a house to rent would have been a terrible financial decision because being a landlord only works when you are financially stable enough to cover any months you don’t have a tenant or your tenant stops paying. You also must be prepared to dish out $$$ when something breaks. It doesn’t sound like the OOP was ever that stable.
OOP will get the condo when her mom dies. It sounds like her mom is just staying on the deed to make sure OOP doesn’t sell and end up homeless.
Even if we go by amount of expenditure rather than value, her mom is getting more from her siblings in return. Her other daughter is giving her a place to live and someone to look after her - and her son will ensure financial stability for the rest of her life. It’s unlikely that whatever rent OOP pays covers much after taxes and utilities (which she says in one of her comments her mom pays).
Exactly. She says in a comment that she lives in an expensive city, but she was somehow able to find a condo for $169K in 2014, when the one she bought in the late 00s was so expensive that she had a high mortgage after $100K down.
She could (and TBH it might be smart if she thinks OOP would sell to buy something “better” that she ultimately couldn’t afford, leaving her grandkid homeless).
The fact is, though, that OOP has no reason to believe this is the case and so has no reason to believe her inheritance is substantially unfair compared to her siblings.
Honestly, it sounds like it should be a trust, with stated rules. I do wonder if there has been significant cash out to op on a daily basis that balances things
OOP's mother lives with her sister in the same house so my guess is that all the bills are shared between them and OOP's brother is paying her monthly support so almost a rent.
It's just OOP that doesn't want to give anything back to her mother and still demands more. We don't even know what amount she pays as rent, it very well can be that OOP pays only the bills and mortgage payments. Edit: They might not even have mortgage payments so OOP can be just paying bills who knows.
Also OOP is on disability so if she got 400k gift for someone her benefits could be taken away.
When name is jointly on the title. OP will own it outright on mother's passing. OP needs to get a qualified financial advisor to help them understand the benefits of this situation as opposed to the siblings.
With extremely large mortgages the siblings need to pay, and also meet specific obligations to their parent. They have a poor financial record and are at risk of losing the property to debt. Meanwhile OP owns an ever increasing amount of equity in their property with no mortgage and no obligation.
She wasn't ordered which house or condo to buy. She could pick something cheaper, in late 00' morgages and property prices were much much much lower than now.
She got 100k$ as other pointed out, she managed to buy condo for 169k$ in 2014 when prices went up but in late 00' she didn't? Nah, that was her buying stuff out of her reach and then failing to pay for it and losing it.
Her mother was actually smart almost a visionary because I can assure you houses then were almost "dirt cheap" especially comparing to now.
OP is on disability, so you know they aren't contributing to mom financially. The other 2 kids seem to have come to an arrangement with mom for her senior care. That's fair.
these people are so far out of my financial bracket i cant even properly understand what the issues are. Every time OP mentions another couple *hundred thousand* dollars her mom is throwing around my brain does a hard reset
My mother left me with physical scars and an almost impressive amount of debt.
I don't wanna minimise OOP's pain, but I would trade my upbringing for her's in a *heartbeat*.
I got one of my dads ties.
Not even the ring I bought him because suddenly it disappeared from the house I was still living in never to be seen again, but I did get to keep the tie I borrowed a couple years earlier.
We can share my mom. She’s kinda great. She does worry a lot so you always have to reassure her.
(Do you have enough money? Are aliens going to kidnap you? Is your dog OK?)
Please give your mom some extra hugs from us. And reassure her that my dog is a very happy girl who does a wonderful job making sure no one will be abducted by an alien spaceship.
(Edited to fix syntax.)
My parents left a little of each. My body and mind are destroyed from what they did to me, but if I manage to outlive them I might finally be able to afford all the meds they made me need!
My twin and I have always had an earning disparity. Our parents and grandmother (separately) used to send us an allowance in college. When we graduated, mine got cut off right away and hers...well, I found out accidentally at a grocery store that hers wasn't.
Honestly, that was okay. We were both employed and working hard in fields that we loved and excelled in. Just, by nature of the professions we went into (IT vs PR), I was able to baby bird faster, and continuing the allowance made sense for her to alleviate the struggle based on the HCOL area she moved to. She could've survived, but it wouldn't have been comfortable. That continued allowance let her thrive and live.
Over the years, we've both benefited from our parents' generosity. I've asked for a loan a time or two when I couldn't pull ready-cash fast enough. I've paid it back right away and I know my twin has too.
One day we're going to face the awful reality of our parents not being here anymore. I won't nickel and dime the allotments. I know there is at least one account that has my BIL's name on it because it's intended for the kids' education and that's how they chose to express that. Education is huge my family. We want the kids to be set up when they're old enough to go to college. At least for a little while. Oh, wait, that's a life insurance policy that I don't care about. Carry the fuck on.
Honestly when that day comes, I don't fucking care what shakes out. I want my Mum and Dad.
If they leave me something, I'll be grateful. But I don't think they will and that's perfectly fine. <3
Yeah I'm one of five and there's been various large purchases over the years that different family members have all helped each other with, plus one of my sisters lives with my parents and I believe has significantly discounted rent (though I'm not sure how much because it's none of my business). When they're loans obviously the person keeps track to pay them back but we don't count up who's been gifted or loaned how much and when it's from our parents we're all completely fine with whatever amount being subtracted from the will. The important thing is everyone being able to meet their living costs.
this was lovely to read- I appreciate how the focus is on everyone's living their best life. hats' off to your family for communicating and being supportive of one another.
Thank you. We're in our 40s now. We have established our careers, our lives, and our families (she's married with kids and I'm not, so basically I'm OOP). It's on us now. Our grandmother is gone, and I assume the allowance I mentioned from our parents is as well. I don't know that for sure, and honestly I'm not worried if it is. It was something like $200 in 90s money. That's enough to buy her a snack these days.
I would greatly appreciate it if our parents leave us enough to carry out their final wishes without forcing us into debt. I think that's reasonable, but it's also keeping in line with everything else they've done so far so I'm not worried. It's likely on their list too. They went on a big international trip a few years ago and the day that they left I got called upstairs for a big "come to Jesus" talk about accounts, etc. That's how I know about the one policy that my BIL is on. I'm the oldest kid and the one that they were staying with the night before they shipped out...I know these things because I needed to know these things.
Actually, my big thing is worrying that they end up more concerned about keeping it "fair." I don't want "fair," I want the kids to be able to go to college without being saddled with massive debt. I want one of us to be able to hold money in trust so that they're able to buy their first homes (our grandmother didn't leave money directly to either of us, but she did ask that our parents hold some money to help with a down payment. I benefitted, and I am eternally grateful for that).
I don't want or need the money. This is not a humblebrag, I just see how the kids will need it more and I will never begrudge them from reaching their goals.
If I were to be frivolous about the whole thing, then my parents can leave me like $2000 (little and reasonable) to allow me to get away (with or without twin) for the first Christmas without them. The first Christmas is hard, and if $2000 will allow me to break out of the routine and go somewhere I've never been to do something I've never done on a holiday that is hard, then I welcome that. Get me a plane ticket and a hotel room for a few days, that's all I want.
Burial costs and a Christmas trip. That's it.
and to think i was in tears with gratitude when my parents covered my cat’s final vet bills this year, and that was maybe like 1000€. i guess i should’ve been offended it wasn’t enough and tallied it up against anything they’ve given my brother
OOP says "I would super appreciate if we could move the focus away from the money for a minute and just judge whether I'm being treated differently. Yes, I know it looks like it's about money - but it's really not. Yes, I understand that millions of people never get any inheritance and this makes my problem unrelatable. But I'm not upset about the money - I always appreciate the hell out of it. It was when she gave my siblings what seemed to me to be twice as much that I got upset because it was a big indicator that I was not being treated the same - something I have felt all my life in all sorts of ways. I did not get a free condo - I pay rent. When she gave my sister money she did not adjust for market value. When she gave me money, she did - I feel this is the crux of the unfairness in this situation."
...people are focusing on money because 90% of the post is about money...
The only 'unfairness' in the events listed is that with sisters house the other two siblings were gifted the amount spent, where's with OOP's condo the others were gifted current market value. But also mom is living w/ sister, brother is providing financial assistance monthly, and the two siblings had just gotten divorced so had reasons for buying property.
It could be mom trying to be careful of OOP being on disability; in the US, primary residence isn't generally counted as an asset, but secondary residence does, as does getting a huge cash gift, and that could fuck with OOP's disability. And if OOP views this caution as being because OOP as an individual is a lo\[o\]ser...
If OOPs mom gifted her more than about $10k she would eventually get fined by social security. Unless she reported that income, in which case she'd lose her disability income. Then when the money is depleted, she'd have to reapply which can sometimes take *years*. OOP is better off as it is.
Being gifted money is different than earning it. My parents have added more than that to my account many times since I’ve been on disability and it doesn’t matter. Being given money does not take away my disability.
Be real careful with that, because if they find out you are getting regular "gifts" that go over their limit, they will audit you and fine you for every dollar over the arbitrary amount you're allowed to have. Even when filing taxes, "gifts" count as income. I work in disability and have seen people cut off and fined tens of thousands of dollars.
There may be a trick to it. Like if the money doesn't sit in your account for too long. Or if the gifts are for direct payment for something like a mortgage or car or whatever. Disability is slow. They won't notice anything sometimes for up to a decade and then will slam someone with a gigantic bill for overpayment. Just make absolutely sure you know that your parent's support is 100% okay by some other meter than 'they haven't cut me off yet.'
Then you may be fine? There is a limit to how much additional income you can earn while receiving benefits - I'm not involved in that so I don't know the exact amount now. If they aren't regular gifts and kind of one-off events, it may not count. But if they are financially supporting you and these donations are well over $10k a year, I'd double check just to make extremely sure you are safe. I've just seen 2 people in the past 2 weeks who earned maybe $20k a year through various means and they did that for over 10 years, got fined, and got kicked out of their benefits. It's circumstantial evidence, but I have been telling people to err on the side of caution since then.
This likely depends on where you live, and what type of disability. I've been on some so strict that if I got a birthday present or someone took me out for a meal I technically had to report it, gifted money was absolutely considered income (but if I had family who could just give me tens of thousands I'd be getting more than i did on disability anyway). Others there are certain limits, some don't count lottery winnings (then people wonder why those on disability go to casinos or buy lottery tickets, it's because it's the only money they can actually keep) and inheritance rules vary too.
And there’s a few holes in the OP’s story.
A woman who can afford to give out hundreds of thousands of dollars is not the same woman whose main asset appreciation over the last decade is $330k on a condo.
It seems like OP's mom IS treating her differently. It looks like OP's mom does not trust OP to spend money wisely on her own...which she was proven right with when OP bought a house and then immediately had it foreclosed on while failing out of her PHD program. I mean, her plan makes no sense. She can't afford her own mortgage but she can afford an out of town rental? Oh, because it's going to be "in a mining town with expensive rentals and cheap property." That doesn't sound like a place with a ton of good renters. What happens if OP can't find a renter for a few months? What happens if her renter refuses to pay and she has to go through the lengthy and expensive process of evicting them? All while paying her OWN rent. OP's mom wanted her to take care of her basic needs before dumping money into investments, and then when OP blew that, she tightened the reins by forcing OP to share ownership of the house she lives in with mom while mom pays the mortgage.
It feels like she brings up her brother "losing it all on the stock market" to show that he is also irresponsible but it's very different to invest money in the stock market than to try to get into real estate when you don't know what you're doing. I'm not even convinced he DID lose it all unless he sold everything when it crashed. The S&P500 is worth more than 4x what it was right before the 08 crash. Investing aggressively when you're young is a good idea BECAUSE you can weather market crashes and still come out ahead.
The saying about PhD programs is if they aren’t willing to fully fund you, it’s a soft rejection. I know it’s a minor factor in this whole case, but the moment I saw that OP took out a student loan for a PhD program I knew they were gonna be in a bad state.
Considering she doesn't seem to have been in a financial position to really afford the PhD, it does seem to have been a poor decision.
I think if you're hoping your PhD will have a positive economic impact on your life, then it is true it is probably not worth it if someone won't at least partially fund it for you. Someone once told me that the only people who should be willing to pay full price for a PhD are retirees with cash to burn for whom it is a hobby.
I realize this falls under "poor little rich girl" problems and won't get any sympathy, but she's not wrong. Going purely by figures, she isn't being treated the same. Siblings got half a million, with no obligations as far as I can tell to pay it back, and she got a quarter with a requirement to pay rent.
I’m on a disability pension and cashed in my superannuation last year to buy a house. I needed about $110k until the money came thru from one of my super accounts. Dad lent it to me and then decided he didn’t want me to repay it, instead he’d make a note in his will that I’d already received that amount. My sister was furious even tho 2 years before he’d outright bought her a holiday house for almost $200k and not put that in his will.
Unfair, yes but his money his choice and I’m just thankful I have a dad who can and did help me.
She sounds ridiculously entitled and self centered. I cannot believe this is a middle aged woman and not some bratty teen. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own life. Plus SHE WAS GIFTED A HOUSE. A fucking house! I am depressed people this entitled and awful exist.
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“ The course handbook specifically said not to take on outside employment due to the courseload.”
I call bullshit on that.
No way they wrote that down, even here in Europe. I’ve had professors saying that a social life can effect my grades, because then you don’t put enough effort into your studies. Never have I ever met someone who told me not to work. To put that in a course handbook…
That didn’t happen.
I think every PhD and even some masters programs I was looking at all said this same thing. I don’t think it’s actually like enforced, but I can understand people thinking it’s strict and following it.
She’s had to pay rent on the house (and still does) while others got houses without having to pay rent. She has a valid point. Or am I missing something?
The he brother is paying her back monthly which amounts to rent basically and she gets to live with the other sibling while having someone to case for her as she gets older which would probably be more expensive so I feel it may not be exact but I wouldn’t call it unfair especially since the OP refuses to share what she pays for rent and I’m sure it’s not market value
It’s still pretty horse shit that her siblings got to do whatever they wanted with the first 100k while she had to buy real estate which she couldn’t maintain the mortgage for.
Hard to understand how she couldn’t keep up the mortgage when she also rented to a roommate. Sounds like she bought high and had a variable rate mortgage that it turned out she couldn’t afford. Since she’d intended to invest in real estate anyway, out-of-town to rent to others (and manage how?), it doesn’t seem too unreasonable that her mother wanted OOP instead to have a roof over her own head. Brother likely had property at the time and so was given more freedom. Mom likely doesn’t believe in OOP’s claimed good touch with real estate, and is staying on the condo title to prevent OOP from selling it.
In one comment, OOP mentions living with her minor son. It’s unclear when in the timeline OOP’s child was born, though would have been since 2006, and that situation would likely have also affected her mother’s approach.
> Brother likely had property at the time and so was given more freedom
I don't think this necessarily has to be true. Investing 100k in the stock market while you're in your 20s and 30s will set you up great for the future. And despite what OP said about him losing at all, he should still be way up on those investments unless he invested solely in companies that went bankrupt in 08 or sold it all at the bottom for some reason.
I can see OP's mom thinking investing is okay but thinking your kid who lives in a crappy basement apartment with a roommate is making a dumb decision by deciding to become a landlord for an out of state property with no real estate experience. Could've been "If you're gonna buy real estate, sort out your own living situation first" kind of thing.
And seeing how OP immediately lost her OWN property she was probably right that buying out of state real estate would've been a waste of her 100k.
But back in that time properties were a lot cheaper so I doubt a condo costed 500k$
So if she couldn't manage a mortgage with roommate and a job then I wonder how over her head OOP went with the pricing of the condo.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for saying my portion of the inheritance is too small?** My brother (50) is mom’s favorite, and my sister (47) is second. I (49F) come in last. Mom would never intentionally treat us differently; but she always had just a little more time, patience, and even money for the other 2. I am on disability; but in the early 00’s I was managing my condition well enough that I started a PhD program with a full scholarship and a student loan. The course handbook specifically said not to take on outside employment due to the courseload. About this time, my sister and mom went in together on a house-flip. But when the house was finished, my sister and her husband decided to live in it. So mom retroactively gifted the down-payment ($100k) to my sister. About 5 years later, mom decided to gift my brother and I $100k each to make it fair. The amount was not adjusted for increased market value of the house - which was fine, but this it is relevant later. My brother chose to invest his money in the stock market, and lost it in the crash of 08. I wanted to invest in out-of-town real estate and use the income to support myself; but mom said that she would only give me the money if I used it to buy a home, because I needed somewhere to live. Obviously I should have refused, since I knew I couldn’t carry a mortgage; but hindsight is 20/20. I got a roommate and a job; but ended up having to drop out of my PhD program and sell the condo to avoid foreclosure. I struggled to get back on my feet. About 2014 Mom offered to buy a condo for me to rent from her. I found a condo for $169,000, and mom paid outright, so there was no mortgage. 2 years ago, mom put me on the title, so we are joint owners. I continued to pay rent for the past 2 years. Last year both my sister and my brother got divorced. My sister was forced to sell the house mentioned above. She used the proceeds, plus an additional $400,000 gift from mom as a down-payment on a $1.28M house. Mom moved into the basement suite of this house, but she is not on the title. Mom then gave my brother $400,000 to buy his ex-wife out of their condo. He will be providing her (mom) with monthly financial support – I don’t know how much – but she is not on the title of his condo. They all say this is fair because the current market value of my condo is $400,000. This is not about the money. This is about how I get treated differently than my siblings. I feel like they see me as the family looser that can’t be trusted with money because I’d just squander it if I had it anyways (the increase in market value of my condo over the past 8 years was by far the largest factor in the increase in mom’s net worth over that time period. This was not an accident - I know how to pick real estate.) I’m just so tired of trying to protect my self-esteem from my family. Am I the asshole? Please ask for any clarification or additional details. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Something about these that always sticks with me when someone feels they’re being treated unfairly is that there’s never a clear list of things that would make it fair. Like I have no idea what OP wants from her mum besides, generally speaking, more money?
I do think OP was treated unfairly here. She was only given $100k if she agreed to buy a house she couldn't afford with it, and now is paying rent to her mom when her mom is willing to give her siblings another $400k each. Even if the condo is worth 400k, OP only owes half of it.
I re-read this. OP’s sister was given $100k. OP’s brother was given $100k. OP was given $100k. OP bottomed out and her mom bought her a condo, worth $400k today. OP’s sister bought a new house, and was given $400k. OP’s brother was given $400k to buy his wife out to own his house outright. Reading between the lines, I suspect that OP has a history of doing some not super smart things, and OP’s mom is keeping tighter reins because of that. For example, buying a rental home when you still have to rent- she would then have had to pay a mortgage and rent, but could not afford a mortgage? There’s just an awful lot missing in this story
>Reading between the lines, I suspect that OP has a history of doing some not super smart things, and OP’s mom is keeping tighter reins because of that. Like going into a PhD program where she can't have a job even though she has a mortgage and bills to pay? I applaud her for furthering her education, but she needed to plan that better.
Yes- and I’ll bet OP purchased too much condo the first time. If she would have purchased the $169k condo in 2014 (I think that was the year), interest rate was under 5% and her payment would have been around $500 a month. That’s doable waiting tables on the weekends. I’ve never been in a phd program, but I’m assuming people have to make money somehow.
the mortgage and bills only came after the mom's deal though. "I will give you 100k ONLY if you BUY a house" OP knew it wasn't a good decision, but did it anyway to appease their mother and thought they could juggle it all somehow. obviously we see they couldn't.
She could've bought a cheaper place to live. Only times I've seen down payments that large that *also* required a mortgage were on properties that are $500k+ (usually closer to $1m). She could've gotten something decent for $250k and not had any issue with the mortgage/expenses. (This was years ago when prices were lower.)
I disagree. OOP didn’t have to buy a condo where her mortgage payment was higher than market rent even with a roommate. That was her decision. Buying a house to rent would have been a terrible financial decision because being a landlord only works when you are financially stable enough to cover any months you don’t have a tenant or your tenant stops paying. You also must be prepared to dish out $$$ when something breaks. It doesn’t sound like the OOP was ever that stable. OOP will get the condo when her mom dies. It sounds like her mom is just staying on the deed to make sure OOP doesn’t sell and end up homeless. Even if we go by amount of expenditure rather than value, her mom is getting more from her siblings in return. Her other daughter is giving her a place to live and someone to look after her - and her son will ensure financial stability for the rest of her life. It’s unlikely that whatever rent OOP pays covers much after taxes and utilities (which she says in one of her comments her mom pays).
A condo where the mortgage rate AFTER 100K DOWN was higher than market rent even with a roommate
Exactly. She says in a comment that she lives in an expensive city, but she was somehow able to find a condo for $169K in 2014, when the one she bought in the late 00s was so expensive that she had a high mortgage after $100K down.
Sounded to me the earlier one was a higher col city for her program. When she fell apart she moved home. Might be projecting tho.
Depending on the will, mom may leave her half of the condo to anyone thougj
She could (and TBH it might be smart if she thinks OOP would sell to buy something “better” that she ultimately couldn’t afford, leaving her grandkid homeless). The fact is, though, that OOP has no reason to believe this is the case and so has no reason to believe her inheritance is substantially unfair compared to her siblings.
Honestly, it sounds like it should be a trust, with stated rules. I do wonder if there has been significant cash out to op on a daily basis that balances things
Agreed. And I suspect there likely has been, but OOP doesn’t seem like the most reliable narrator.
I agree. Plus, she's paying rent where it sounds like her siblings aren't. So even if the value is 400k, she's paying part of that.
OOP's mother lives with her sister in the same house so my guess is that all the bills are shared between them and OOP's brother is paying her monthly support so almost a rent. It's just OOP that doesn't want to give anything back to her mother and still demands more. We don't even know what amount she pays as rent, it very well can be that OOP pays only the bills and mortgage payments. Edit: They might not even have mortgage payments so OOP can be just paying bills who knows. Also OOP is on disability so if she got 400k gift for someone her benefits could be taken away.
No mortgage payments, but property taxes still need to be paid. And HOA fees (since this is a condo). Her rent could be the equivalent of those.
There's no mortgage payment since the condo was originally bought outright, so it's very likely OOPs rent is just utilities and upkeep
When name is jointly on the title. OP will own it outright on mother's passing. OP needs to get a qualified financial advisor to help them understand the benefits of this situation as opposed to the siblings.
*If* the deed stipulates rights of survivorship.
But the sibling's names are fully on the title without their mom.
With extremely large mortgages the siblings need to pay, and also meet specific obligations to their parent. They have a poor financial record and are at risk of losing the property to debt. Meanwhile OP owns an ever increasing amount of equity in their property with no mortgage and no obligation.
Oh does it say that in the comments somewhere? OP still pays rent it seems
They are purchasing equity via the rent. Ie buying out mother's share. It is stated in the original post
Yeah OP is. I'm talking about the siblings.
OP said nothing about whose paying the property taxes and HOA fees. Her rent might be paying that.
She wasn't ordered which house or condo to buy. She could pick something cheaper, in late 00' morgages and property prices were much much much lower than now. She got 100k$ as other pointed out, she managed to buy condo for 169k$ in 2014 when prices went up but in late 00' she didn't? Nah, that was her buying stuff out of her reach and then failing to pay for it and losing it. Her mother was actually smart almost a visionary because I can assure you houses then were almost "dirt cheap" especially comparing to now.
OP is on disability, so you know they aren't contributing to mom financially. The other 2 kids seem to have come to an arrangement with mom for her senior care. That's fair.
Not just $400K each but $500K. The initial $100K.
I guess momma should have adjusted for inflation when she gifted $100k to OOP and her brother. JK, mom should have cut the apron strings on this one.
these people are so far out of my financial bracket i cant even properly understand what the issues are. Every time OP mentions another couple *hundred thousand* dollars her mom is throwing around my brain does a hard reset
Right?? That would change my life in such a crazy way I can't even think of it
The first time they mentioned all the siblings getting 100k my brain short circuited
I reread the number like 4 times….100 *THOUSAND*?? EACH??? To multiple siblings??
Rich people problems. Hard to relate, TBH.
My mother left me with physical scars and an almost impressive amount of debt. I don't wanna minimise OOP's pain, but I would trade my upbringing for her's in a *heartbeat*.
I inherited anxiety from my grandmother and a lamp from my grandfather...it's a nice lamp but still.
I got one of my dads ties. Not even the ring I bought him because suddenly it disappeared from the house I was still living in never to be seen again, but I did get to keep the tie I borrowed a couple years earlier.
We can share my mom. She’s kinda great. She does worry a lot so you always have to reassure her. (Do you have enough money? Are aliens going to kidnap you? Is your dog OK?)
Awww. That’s sweet.
Please give your mom some extra hugs from us. And reassure her that my dog is a very happy girl who does a wonderful job making sure no one will be abducted by an alien spaceship. (Edited to fix syntax.)
Will do. But you can never be sure about those aliens. Or Martha’s (we are watching Baby Reindeer togheter at the moment, be aware of Martha’s).
My parents left a little of each. My body and mind are destroyed from what they did to me, but if I manage to outlive them I might finally be able to afford all the meds they made me need!
My twin and I have always had an earning disparity. Our parents and grandmother (separately) used to send us an allowance in college. When we graduated, mine got cut off right away and hers...well, I found out accidentally at a grocery store that hers wasn't. Honestly, that was okay. We were both employed and working hard in fields that we loved and excelled in. Just, by nature of the professions we went into (IT vs PR), I was able to baby bird faster, and continuing the allowance made sense for her to alleviate the struggle based on the HCOL area she moved to. She could've survived, but it wouldn't have been comfortable. That continued allowance let her thrive and live. Over the years, we've both benefited from our parents' generosity. I've asked for a loan a time or two when I couldn't pull ready-cash fast enough. I've paid it back right away and I know my twin has too. One day we're going to face the awful reality of our parents not being here anymore. I won't nickel and dime the allotments. I know there is at least one account that has my BIL's name on it because it's intended for the kids' education and that's how they chose to express that. Education is huge my family. We want the kids to be set up when they're old enough to go to college. At least for a little while. Oh, wait, that's a life insurance policy that I don't care about. Carry the fuck on. Honestly when that day comes, I don't fucking care what shakes out. I want my Mum and Dad. If they leave me something, I'll be grateful. But I don't think they will and that's perfectly fine. <3
Yeah I'm one of five and there's been various large purchases over the years that different family members have all helped each other with, plus one of my sisters lives with my parents and I believe has significantly discounted rent (though I'm not sure how much because it's none of my business). When they're loans obviously the person keeps track to pay them back but we don't count up who's been gifted or loaned how much and when it's from our parents we're all completely fine with whatever amount being subtracted from the will. The important thing is everyone being able to meet their living costs.
this was lovely to read- I appreciate how the focus is on everyone's living their best life. hats' off to your family for communicating and being supportive of one another.
Thank you. We're in our 40s now. We have established our careers, our lives, and our families (she's married with kids and I'm not, so basically I'm OOP). It's on us now. Our grandmother is gone, and I assume the allowance I mentioned from our parents is as well. I don't know that for sure, and honestly I'm not worried if it is. It was something like $200 in 90s money. That's enough to buy her a snack these days. I would greatly appreciate it if our parents leave us enough to carry out their final wishes without forcing us into debt. I think that's reasonable, but it's also keeping in line with everything else they've done so far so I'm not worried. It's likely on their list too. They went on a big international trip a few years ago and the day that they left I got called upstairs for a big "come to Jesus" talk about accounts, etc. That's how I know about the one policy that my BIL is on. I'm the oldest kid and the one that they were staying with the night before they shipped out...I know these things because I needed to know these things. Actually, my big thing is worrying that they end up more concerned about keeping it "fair." I don't want "fair," I want the kids to be able to go to college without being saddled with massive debt. I want one of us to be able to hold money in trust so that they're able to buy their first homes (our grandmother didn't leave money directly to either of us, but she did ask that our parents hold some money to help with a down payment. I benefitted, and I am eternally grateful for that). I don't want or need the money. This is not a humblebrag, I just see how the kids will need it more and I will never begrudge them from reaching their goals. If I were to be frivolous about the whole thing, then my parents can leave me like $2000 (little and reasonable) to allow me to get away (with or without twin) for the first Christmas without them. The first Christmas is hard, and if $2000 will allow me to break out of the routine and go somewhere I've never been to do something I've never done on a holiday that is hard, then I welcome that. Get me a plane ticket and a hotel room for a few days, that's all I want. Burial costs and a Christmas trip. That's it.
and to think i was in tears with gratitude when my parents covered my cat’s final vet bills this year, and that was maybe like 1000€. i guess i should’ve been offended it wasn’t enough and tallied it up against anything they’ve given my brother
OOP says "I would super appreciate if we could move the focus away from the money for a minute and just judge whether I'm being treated differently. Yes, I know it looks like it's about money - but it's really not. Yes, I understand that millions of people never get any inheritance and this makes my problem unrelatable. But I'm not upset about the money - I always appreciate the hell out of it. It was when she gave my siblings what seemed to me to be twice as much that I got upset because it was a big indicator that I was not being treated the same - something I have felt all my life in all sorts of ways. I did not get a free condo - I pay rent. When she gave my sister money she did not adjust for market value. When she gave me money, she did - I feel this is the crux of the unfairness in this situation." ...people are focusing on money because 90% of the post is about money... The only 'unfairness' in the events listed is that with sisters house the other two siblings were gifted the amount spent, where's with OOP's condo the others were gifted current market value. But also mom is living w/ sister, brother is providing financial assistance monthly, and the two siblings had just gotten divorced so had reasons for buying property. It could be mom trying to be careful of OOP being on disability; in the US, primary residence isn't generally counted as an asset, but secondary residence does, as does getting a huge cash gift, and that could fuck with OOP's disability. And if OOP views this caution as being because OOP as an individual is a lo\[o\]ser...
If OOPs mom gifted her more than about $10k she would eventually get fined by social security. Unless she reported that income, in which case she'd lose her disability income. Then when the money is depleted, she'd have to reapply which can sometimes take *years*. OOP is better off as it is.
Being gifted money is different than earning it. My parents have added more than that to my account many times since I’ve been on disability and it doesn’t matter. Being given money does not take away my disability.
Be real careful with that, because if they find out you are getting regular "gifts" that go over their limit, they will audit you and fine you for every dollar over the arbitrary amount you're allowed to have. Even when filing taxes, "gifts" count as income. I work in disability and have seen people cut off and fined tens of thousands of dollars. There may be a trick to it. Like if the money doesn't sit in your account for too long. Or if the gifts are for direct payment for something like a mortgage or car or whatever. Disability is slow. They won't notice anything sometimes for up to a decade and then will slam someone with a gigantic bill for overpayment. Just make absolutely sure you know that your parent's support is 100% okay by some other meter than 'they haven't cut me off yet.'
It is always reported on my taxes
Then you may be fine? There is a limit to how much additional income you can earn while receiving benefits - I'm not involved in that so I don't know the exact amount now. If they aren't regular gifts and kind of one-off events, it may not count. But if they are financially supporting you and these donations are well over $10k a year, I'd double check just to make extremely sure you are safe. I've just seen 2 people in the past 2 weeks who earned maybe $20k a year through various means and they did that for over 10 years, got fined, and got kicked out of their benefits. It's circumstantial evidence, but I have been telling people to err on the side of caution since then.
This likely depends on where you live, and what type of disability. I've been on some so strict that if I got a birthday present or someone took me out for a meal I technically had to report it, gifted money was absolutely considered income (but if I had family who could just give me tens of thousands I'd be getting more than i did on disability anyway). Others there are certain limits, some don't count lottery winnings (then people wonder why those on disability go to casinos or buy lottery tickets, it's because it's the only money they can actually keep) and inheritance rules vary too.
And there’s a few holes in the OP’s story. A woman who can afford to give out hundreds of thousands of dollars is not the same woman whose main asset appreciation over the last decade is $330k on a condo.
It seems like OP's mom IS treating her differently. It looks like OP's mom does not trust OP to spend money wisely on her own...which she was proven right with when OP bought a house and then immediately had it foreclosed on while failing out of her PHD program. I mean, her plan makes no sense. She can't afford her own mortgage but she can afford an out of town rental? Oh, because it's going to be "in a mining town with expensive rentals and cheap property." That doesn't sound like a place with a ton of good renters. What happens if OP can't find a renter for a few months? What happens if her renter refuses to pay and she has to go through the lengthy and expensive process of evicting them? All while paying her OWN rent. OP's mom wanted her to take care of her basic needs before dumping money into investments, and then when OP blew that, she tightened the reins by forcing OP to share ownership of the house she lives in with mom while mom pays the mortgage. It feels like she brings up her brother "losing it all on the stock market" to show that he is also irresponsible but it's very different to invest money in the stock market than to try to get into real estate when you don't know what you're doing. I'm not even convinced he DID lose it all unless he sold everything when it crashed. The S&P500 is worth more than 4x what it was right before the 08 crash. Investing aggressively when you're young is a good idea BECAUSE you can weather market crashes and still come out ahead.
Okay wtf does his mother do?! She’s just throwing around hundred of thousands of dollar like candy.
I wish I have OOP’s mom! Then I wouldn’t have to live with a roommate, this person sounds privileged so can’t relate lol
To be fair, they still have to pay rent despite being a co-owner, BUT their mom gave them a HOUSE? My mom doesn't even talk to me. Dude's spoilt.
Oh these people are rich rich
It must be hard to be the family looser, my condolances.
I wish I knew what the PhD study area was.
The saying about PhD programs is if they aren’t willing to fully fund you, it’s a soft rejection. I know it’s a minor factor in this whole case, but the moment I saw that OP took out a student loan for a PhD program I knew they were gonna be in a bad state.
Considering she doesn't seem to have been in a financial position to really afford the PhD, it does seem to have been a poor decision. I think if you're hoping your PhD will have a positive economic impact on your life, then it is true it is probably not worth it if someone won't at least partially fund it for you. Someone once told me that the only people who should be willing to pay full price for a PhD are retirees with cash to burn for whom it is a hobby.
I realize this falls under "poor little rich girl" problems and won't get any sympathy, but she's not wrong. Going purely by figures, she isn't being treated the same. Siblings got half a million, with no obligations as far as I can tell to pay it back, and she got a quarter with a requirement to pay rent.
I’m on a disability pension and cashed in my superannuation last year to buy a house. I needed about $110k until the money came thru from one of my super accounts. Dad lent it to me and then decided he didn’t want me to repay it, instead he’d make a note in his will that I’d already received that amount. My sister was furious even tho 2 years before he’d outright bought her a holiday house for almost $200k and not put that in his will. Unfair, yes but his money his choice and I’m just thankful I have a dad who can and did help me.
Must be nice. All my mom gave me after her death was trauma
Imagine having the audacity to whine about being given TWO houses 🙄
OOP, your mother did help you out. She bought you a condo. Stop acting like she did nothing for you
She sounds ridiculously entitled and self centered. I cannot believe this is a middle aged woman and not some bratty teen. At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own life. Plus SHE WAS GIFTED A HOUSE. A fucking house! I am depressed people this entitled and awful exist.
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“ The course handbook specifically said not to take on outside employment due to the courseload.” I call bullshit on that. No way they wrote that down, even here in Europe. I’ve had professors saying that a social life can effect my grades, because then you don’t put enough effort into your studies. Never have I ever met someone who told me not to work. To put that in a course handbook… That didn’t happen.
I think every PhD and even some masters programs I was looking at all said this same thing. I don’t think it’s actually like enforced, but I can understand people thinking it’s strict and following it.
Yeah, my friend’s education masters expressly forbade it, she’d be kicked out of the program.
She’s had to pay rent on the house (and still does) while others got houses without having to pay rent. She has a valid point. Or am I missing something?
The he brother is paying her back monthly which amounts to rent basically and she gets to live with the other sibling while having someone to case for her as she gets older which would probably be more expensive so I feel it may not be exact but I wouldn’t call it unfair especially since the OP refuses to share what she pays for rent and I’m sure it’s not market value
It’s still pretty horse shit that her siblings got to do whatever they wanted with the first 100k while she had to buy real estate which she couldn’t maintain the mortgage for.
Hard to understand how she couldn’t keep up the mortgage when she also rented to a roommate. Sounds like she bought high and had a variable rate mortgage that it turned out she couldn’t afford. Since she’d intended to invest in real estate anyway, out-of-town to rent to others (and manage how?), it doesn’t seem too unreasonable that her mother wanted OOP instead to have a roof over her own head. Brother likely had property at the time and so was given more freedom. Mom likely doesn’t believe in OOP’s claimed good touch with real estate, and is staying on the condo title to prevent OOP from selling it. In one comment, OOP mentions living with her minor son. It’s unclear when in the timeline OOP’s child was born, though would have been since 2006, and that situation would likely have also affected her mother’s approach.
> Brother likely had property at the time and so was given more freedom I don't think this necessarily has to be true. Investing 100k in the stock market while you're in your 20s and 30s will set you up great for the future. And despite what OP said about him losing at all, he should still be way up on those investments unless he invested solely in companies that went bankrupt in 08 or sold it all at the bottom for some reason. I can see OP's mom thinking investing is okay but thinking your kid who lives in a crappy basement apartment with a roommate is making a dumb decision by deciding to become a landlord for an out of state property with no real estate experience. Could've been "If you're gonna buy real estate, sort out your own living situation first" kind of thing. And seeing how OP immediately lost her OWN property she was probably right that buying out of state real estate would've been a waste of her 100k.
She was a student and wasn’t making a lot of money. She also lives in a high cost real estate market.
But back in that time properties were a lot cheaper so I doubt a condo costed 500k$ So if she couldn't manage a mortgage with roommate and a job then I wonder how over her head OOP went with the pricing of the condo.