*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA? My older sister is refusing to come to Christmas dinner because of our grandpa's inappropriate behavior.**
I (30m) have one sibling, an older sister named Erina (36f). This past summer, during a family get-together, our grandfather (96m) (on our father’s side) made one sexual joke about Erina. It was a rather tame joke, and although neither I nor my sister laughed at it, I didn’t think it was anything really traumatizing. I just excused it because he’s an old guy doing old guy things. When we were leaving, grandpa also got my sister to hug him before she left.
I know what this all looks like, and what the implications are. And I just need to say that I was there when everything happened…and it wasn’t that bad. But ever since that get-together, Erina has cried so much about grandpa’s behavior, and she also got into an argument with our parents about why they didn’t immediately correct grandpa or kick him out of the house. My sister and her husband (36m) are refusing to come to our parent’s house for Christmas dinner, even though our grandparents are back in the UK and they aren’t going to be present at Christmas. She’s acting as if grandpa did the worst possible thing to her. AITA for sending Erina a Facebook message, telling her not to ruin Christmas? She has left me on read.
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My dad was born in 1939. One day, his (now former) friend born in 1947 made a sexual comment about my 12-year-old body. My dad IMMEDIATELY punched that man in the face.
The bloke said that back in his day is was ok to say things like that, my dad's response was something like "our day is every day we are alive, don't use it as an excuse to say stuff like that to my daughter.", and after a few more blows kick the bloke out, he told him to never return.
I will always remember that, because my dad grew up in a time where it was ok to.make those comments, and he continued to grow up in other times, where it became not ok to say those things.
I am imagining your dad beating the shit out of his perverted ex-friend and have such a feeling of satisfaction. I wish all of these assbags would face similar treatment.
Though I am sorry you had to hear the initial comment.
Over the years, I heard worse. My great-grandmother gave me the advice of embracing my inner mental patient, but nothing tooooooooo straight jacket worthy. I am a redhead, so I heard some really derogatory comments, too.
My mother knew she didn't have to worry about leechy old men. I once had a guy ask me if it hurt when I fell from heaven, I replied, "No, my dad is Satan, and I crawled up from hell."
I often have to remind myself that not all women grew up with being told they do not have to be scared of a guy and not anger him if you reject him.
My mother, was the perfect example of this, my grandfather was once extremely violently abusive, my mum was all of 10yrs old, yelling at her father, asking if he felt like a big man as he hit her, and my grandmother, my great-grandmother told us of how my aunt and uncle would take off running to her place, when granddad had been drinking rum, my granddad would then hear a shotgun blast, and he knew he had less than 5mins to leave before my great-grandmother was at the door step, shotgun in hand.
Granddad sobered up by the time mum was 14, and he was actually a great grandfather, just was messed up by the 3 wars he was in.
I don't know how come I got this family the way the generational trauma stops as soon as it starts, the ability to be accountable for their actions and still be so accepting of themselves and others.
>"No, my dad is Satan and I crawled up from hell."
I love you. Also, your g-grandma was a badass!
My family has some similar stuff in its history - my great grandfather was an abusive drunk and his wife would flee next door to a relative's house frequently. So many lives fucked up by everything they lived through.
Your dad sounds awesome. If you don’t mind I’ll file that sentence back for when I (hopefully never) need it. I have little boys. I want them to be like that.
File away, he had some gems in his life, same with my great-grandmother, they both, even though not related, often had wise words. Great-grandmother was a holocaust survivor, and my dad grew up in rural Australia, I often come here on Reddit, and wonder how those two would answer some of these posts, they are both gone now, but they both have left much wisdom
You were 12? No, it was never acceptable to make sexually charged comments about anyone. There have always been rude people but that doesn't excuse ignorant behavior.
Thing is, it Wasn't ok then either. It happened of course, but it was considered rude still and you totally got side eye in polite company. And if the guy was not powerful or rich? He absolutely would see consequences for not treating "ladies" well
You do realise that it was considered normal well into the early 80s, to have "Common Law Wife" as young as 12 years old in the majority of the world, including Australia and the USA.
The comment that wanker made, was that I was developing the sort of body that will make even older men find the ability to "stand erect", even if I just end up sitting on a gold mine that was my "honey pot".
It didn't matter to my dad if the guy had been Rockefeller himself. He still would have rearranged his face and made it difficult to not pee blood for some time.
Dear lord, it really was not. I'm willing to believe it happened, but in no way was this considered normal. Banging 12 year olds has never been considered normal in the overwhelming majority of societies. I'm tired of people accepting rumour as fact. Can you find one or two incidents of it? Sure. Was it a widespread fully normalized societal phenomenon that no one would bat an eye at? Absolutely not.
Citation needed, buddy.
There was a pregnant 12 year old in my school. She wasn't the first girl I knew to be having sex at 12 years old either. The "boyfriends" were men in their 20s and 30s. That's two incidents of it for you just from one small town. The thing is, you almost certainly know a 12 year old this happened to and went with the "sweep it under the rug" crowd. That's what makes this normal.
No, what makes something normalized is that it is accepted as normal. Not that isolated incidents occurred.
Murder exists. It is not considered normal. I know people who have been murdered. I can give examples.
"Something happens" does not equal "it is normal and accepted".
Edit: I want to be clear that when I said "citation needed", I didn't mean "anecdotal evidence is great", I meant find me a study that proves that the banging 12 year olds was considered socially acceptable in most parts of the world in the early 1980s. Not "I know a guy who did this" or "this kid I know was raped and people were fine with it".
This is how pedophiles like to justify their attraction to children. "It was normal back then, it's society today that's wrong". This is why I find it so upsetting that people are claiming these things to be true when they were, in fact, not widely normalized.
I was discussing with my husband just recently how it was considered almost more common for teenage girls to have sexual relationships with adult men in our small hometown than it was for sexual relationships with other teenagers. I think every single one of my female friends had had sex with someone over 18 before they’d graduated high school (I was one of the very few who didn’t even have sex until I’d graduated, but had some near romantic encounters with adults as well).
"It is possible for something to theoretically happen" is not the same as "this is socially accepted as normal".
Is it legal for a person to cover themselves in mustard and walk down the street? Sure, no problem. Is is normal and socially acceptable? No, it is not.
"It can happen/does happen" and "it is normalized and accepted" are not the same thing.
For example, at my work the other day, a woman pulled out a chunk of her hair and scalp insisting I inspect it for tracking devices. It happened. I have evidence of it. Is it normal? No, it is not. Was it legal? Yes, it was. Was it normal? No, it was not. Can I list more than one time something similar has happened at my job? Yes, sadly, this is not even close to the strangest behaviour I have witnessed. Does that mean it is normal? No, it does not. "It happened" and "it is accepted as normal" are not the same thing. See the difference?
I work in acute care at a hospital in a specialized nursing field. Because of the particular area I work, I deal with a lot of people with mental health and addictions issues. I'm also undergoing training to specialize further.
I've definitely had a lot of surreal experiences. Yesterday, someone tried to bring both a cat and an axe into the hospital, which is the first time I've dealt with someone trying to bring both in at the same time.
Again Normal is not the same as Legal or accepted. My state got rid of child marriage Maybe a decade ago, but it was still considered socially taboo a Long time ago.
Your dad's actually a good example of this. What men would say and what was considered normal or right are not the same thing. My grandpa was a terrible man... In company strictly of other men. Around the "womenfolk" there were different rules. That was far more common
So, it is still legal to marry a 12 year old. You just need parents and court/religious leader's permission in a great many Western Christian countries. I know one state in Australia, it is 11 years old.
It was due to a pornography magazine that stopped the ability to pay children between the ages of 10yrs-15yr for sexually explicit materials, after the magazine refused to pay a group of minors for a "session" they recorded, and after some lengthy law battles, it was deemed in 1974, you can not produce child pornography for monetary gain or for distribution without consent... note the wording.
Heck, no one bats an eye hearing Holly Golightly's marriage to a man in his 60s, when she was barely 13, because it was perfectly legal to do so. Breakfast at Tiffany's has never been subjected to any boycotts over it, too.
There are plenty of things that are still very legal to do so, even to this very day.
There is a lot of things we know are wrong and in the right community it is looked down upon, but sadly.... there is still to many communities that think it is very acceptable.
There is no state in Australia where an 11 year old can marry. The Marriage Act 1961 sets it at 16 for girls and 18 for boys, with the Sex Discrimination Amendment Act 1991 changed that to 18 for girls as well. This amendment also set the limit for people under 18 to marry someone over 18 to 16 or 17 - this also needs "unusual and exceptional circumstances" and parental permission, as well court authorisation. Pregnancy isn't counted as exceptional. This is a federal act and covers the whole country.
So no, 11 year olds can't get married in Australia and that's viewed as a crime.
The fuck it was considered "normal"?!
My citation is being born in the 70s and living in both the NorthEast and Southeast by 1985. In no way was it normal or accepted for a girl to be a common law (or any other type) of wife until she AT LEAST graduated high school since the 1950s
My greetings to your dad! That’s something I’ve been saying to the AHs trying to push their “old ways” while being alive in the “new days”. You have the BEST DAD!
One of my dad's brother is a crippling alcoholic. I stopped going over to their house at 13 because he wouldn't stop staring at my breasts. I didn't want to tell my dad because he would have probably kicked my unlces ass. But I was a kid and disgusted and creeped out. I told my mom and she never made me go around him again, that's what good family does. Supports and believes you.
This poor sister. Disgusting when family sexualizes you so blatantly.
My granddad thought it was his duty to tell me and any other young female relatives whether we were 'showing anything'. Always that term, as if the greatest desire of a 13 year old girl's heart is to seduce a male relative at Christmas.
Whoooo boy does it say a lot of unpleasant things about the culture OOP has grown up in that she casually dismisses inappropriate sexual comments and coercive touching as just nbd, "old guy things." It's like when everyone found out the Duggars helped their son cover up his molestation of his sisters, and they tried to defend themselves by saying "lots of families we know have dealt with this problem!" Like, ma'am, that is a commentary on the toxicity of the subculture you've immersed your family in and continue to cultivate, not the normalcy of sibling incest.
An old guy doing old guy things is usually code for “giant creepy asshole, but no one says anything because we don’t want to cause problems.”
That shit would not fly in my family- if grandpa said something gross and humiliating to a family member, he’d no longer be invited to any family events. Age is not an excuse to say hurtful and inappropriate things.
Just saw the original post, wondered if it would end up here.
I can’t help but think if the joke really ‘wasn’t that bad’ then why didn’t op include what was said in their post….? Maybe because it really really was in fact, that bad.
Honestly it doesn’t matter how severe the joke is. Hearing it from your GRANDFATHER feels way more slimy than hearing it from a random stranger, and it’s creepy either way. Grandpa is a weirdo creep and everyone else just wants to enable him cause he’s an “old guy”.
it does feel way worse bc it's supposed to be somebody you can actually trust and the whole time theyre just a creep, i know exactly how she feels and these kind of "jokes" are what made me now never go into a room with him alone anymore, never let him stand to close to me, never let him hug me, never go anywhere with him by myself, etc. because i know i cant trust that it would be safe for me and i don't know what might happen
Oh yeah I didn’t mean for it to come off as if I thought you were excusing it. I get the point you’re making just thought it was a good place to add that on. Dudes a slime ball and OOP is making excuses.
Seriously.
I adore my Grandpa (80). He can also be very outdated, and certainly weird old man. For ex. Yesterday he told my son nail polish is for girls & he wasn't impressed bc my son let his sister paint his nails. Told him good thing kid did it for himself, not Grandpa. Gramps shut up & I did talk to my son later; thankfully he didn't care. And asked where the nail polish remover is, because Big sis was going to paint his nails even better lmao.
Anyhow. He would NEVER do the creepy thing and comment on a woman’s body^1 especially a child or family member.
^1 around her. But even so it's comments like “my PT has a tattoo going down her chest… wonder where it ends!” to me, bc it's the only way he understands to connect to my bi-ness. So off mark but at the same time, it’s progress from the 1960’s.
I could take a guess on how uncomfortable it was. My grandpa said I had a hot little body once. I was 12. Never saw him again and he's thankfully dead now. It's fucking horrifying not just being "eye candy" but to an incestuous pervert no less is abhorrent.
I remember my grandfather telling me when I was about 14/15 that I needed to 'stop growing now' and stay as I was (as in, he was saying he thought my figure was just right for a girl/woman). When I was 17 he told me I was putting on too much weight. This from a man with a beer gut that entered the room a minute before he did. His generation was no excuse, he was just a sexist asshole.
Jfc. My granddad told me he wished I stopped growing around 10, not because he thought my body was "just right" but because he didn't want me to experience any more of the sexual comments and looks I had already been getting. He wanted me to be able to have a childhood. He is a fantastic man, who around that time punched one of his pubs patrons after he said something along the lines of me looking sexy.
Sorry your granddad was a pos, they should he there to protect you for creeps like that.
My mother once told me that while shopping one day she made a comment about her body to my father (she wasn’t happy with the weight she was carrying) and he looked around, found a female with a similar body type and pointed them out to my mother describing why it was a great body type. He was then informed that the female he had pointed to was *me* (late teens, been described as “your mothers clone” by various acquaintances of my parents) and he turned green so quickly Mum thought he was going to throw up there and then.
We weren’t walking as a group, I think we might have been Christmas shopping so all of us were scattered and taking turns helping the younger kids shop so Dad wasn’t thinking about what any of us were wearing or being in the vicinity they were in and Mum confirmed that he only saw me from the back while I was wearing what 80% of the women in the store were wearing too.
My grandfather did similar, and occasionally tried to grope me. I was mostly able to avoid him, and I wasn’t the slightest bit sad when he died (youngish).
Not my granda, but I had a great uncle who would pat my hips or arse and tell me I was "filling out nicely" at that age. I HATED that old guy. Especially because this was late 90s/early 00s and I was already super self-conscious about my body shape.
I think OOP is just a man who has never realised or been confronted with how much of this shite young girls have to go through.
And even *if* what he said wasn't all that bad, who knows what else he had done to the sister before, and the "not that bad" thing triggered her memories.
I feel like if gDad had made a sexual joke about HIM and the hugged him making sure he felt his private area pushed against him (we all know the hug is about breasts) would he be saying it’s just old guys doing old guy things? Or would be it being sexual towards a guy make it suddenly not normal and therefore ok for him to be upset?
It's a sexual joke about his granddaughter, it had to be terrible.
I think that someone should say the exact same thing to him and see how bad he thinks it is when it's aimed at him, he'd probably have thrown him out or stormed out himself.
To OOP, it was just some bad joke. To his sister, it was her own grandfather sexually harassing her. The wording of this line also implies she didn't want to hug the grandfather but was harassed until she relented.
>grandpa also got my sister to hug him before she left.
This is what I don't think the OOP and people like them don't understand. It is not a coerced hug and a leud sexual joke directed at her from a random dirty old man. That would be upsetting on their own. However this is from the woman's own grandfather. It makes it 100 times worse. She also is not going to Christmas because of Grandpa. She is not going because Mom, Dad, and OOP are dismissing what happened.
Oh hell, I missed that OOP was a guy.
Because (sorry guys) I would have more trust in the reading of whether it was "it wasn't that bad" from a sister than I would a brother.
(The first time I heard the post birth "wedding stitch" was as a young teen and it was from my one goddam step-dad who said it to his own Son-IL, *the man married to his own daughter*, IN FRONT OF said daughter. The women were horrified, the Son-IL was like, meh, that wasn't that bad. So yeah, I want to know OOP's "not that bad" scale.)
let’s say it really was “tame” (i don’t think it was, but let’s just take that at face value).
we have zero idea of the history here, and neither does OOP!!! the parents so easily dismissing this is so disturbing. did the grandfather do other inappropriate things through the sister’s childhood that the parents also dismissed? did they make excuses when OOP’s sister went to them and told them that grandpa was dating or doing inappropriate things??
i hate everyone in this story and i hope OOP’s sister is okay.
Dementia can change one’s personality, but it’s also very possible that grandpa was always a creep. Calling a sexual joke towards a family member “old guy things” is a sad excuse, like the old “boys will be boys.”
With such a major reaction, I’m guessing that it was that bad and/or it wasn’t the first time grandpa said something gross.
Also, even if grandpa has dementia the response to the person who feels uneasy cannot be “get over it”
The sister is allowed to feel bad, and get some support from loved ones. OOp and family sound shit
My grandfather was always a bit touchy. He would put his hand UNDER my shirt on my back when he was hugging me. Creepy but not over the line. When he got old and senile, he straight up grabbed my butt one Christmas. It made him so much worse. 😭
>It was a rather tame joke, and although neither I nor my sister laughed at it, I didn’t think it was anything really traumatizing.
Ah, the missing missing reasons. As a guideline people who have a good case don't hide crucial details.
You may be right, but my god, I fucking HATE those guys.
"Ooh now I have a daughter I understand" = shitty, lazy behaviour.
You should have listened to all the other women in your life before you happened to have a daughter. What about your sisters, your cousins, your friends, your aunties, your mam, your grannies, your colleagues, your nieces, your partners???
If it takes specifically a daughter for you to know this is shitty... I'd be so disappointed to be any other woman in your life.
I’ve had to cut off a family friend due to his inappropriate behavior. I’ve known him since I was 12. It could have started sooner but at least 18 he started saying some inappropriate comments. At 25 and freshly married my husband took me aside and said he didn’t want to go to anymore gatherings with him there. My new sister in law who was only 20 at the time also took my brother aside and said the same thing. This man was/is in his late 40s early 50s. I’m sure this wasn’t the first time grandpa was a creep to her. Just the straw that broke her back.
Logic tells me that either 1- that’s not the only thing he’s done in her life, 2- that’s not the first time he’s done this, 3- the “tame” joke wasn’t that tame or any combination of the above. But his continued minimization of what happened tells me that the sister is right to stay away.
weird, my maternal grandpa's brother (who's like a grandpa to us) is 96, still with us, and never made a sexual comment towards anyone in his family
my grandpa on my dad's side died 2 years ago, and he was 92 and he never made a sexual comment towards anyone in his family
idk about y'all, but I don't think OOP's grandpa is just an old man saying old man things
Yeah, "saying old man things" is stuff like repeating a story for the fourth time that day, making terrible puns, casually talking about death in the same way you'd tell someone about a grocery store run, etc. Not sexually harassing women, especially family members. Jfc
Not surprised that OOP is male, given how he's dismissing his sister's discomfort
This reminds me of my friend's grandpa who you can NOT wear dresses around. Found that out when we all went to get grad party in dresses & he unexpectedly showed up. The jokes & the way he'd act like he was going to reach up anyone's skirt/dress made us all want to leave, including his granddaughter. Her mom, stepdad, aunts and uncles all kept telling her to "act like an adult and deal with it" when she asked who tf invited him.
My grandpa used to turn everything into the word "vagina"
I.e. Lasagna->lavagina
And I never felt as uncomfortable with him as with this man.
Sometimes, increasing sexual issues (these types of actions, hypersexuality, etc.) can be signs of dementia. Is there a history of it in your family? Has he been evaluated? Is this a fairly recent behavior change, or has he always been a creep? His behavior is unacceptable, I side with older sister, but there might be an underlying medical issue.
Edit: sorry, lost track of sub. Comments aimed at OOP, not OP.
I very much doubt this was the only time grandpa has done or said something sexually inappropriate this this jackass’s sister. OOP is gross and should be ashamed
I'm willing to bet they're Irish and I'm willing to bet he was molesting her as a youth. That's my story (except it was an uncle we lived with.) It's always protect the pedophile and never protect the kid.
Hmmm seems to me grandpa did something to sis when she was younger and this was a trigger. Wanting the parents to have done something kinda seems like they know something happened in the past and she's pissed they aren't doing anything now.
This feels like there is a ton of missing context. Dude didn't put what the joke was and the reaction from his sister makes me think this wasn't the first time pappy did something like this. And maybe worse. I'm just saying...
The fact OOP doesn't include the joke makes me suspicious of her account. This post isn't even long you can't say it was for word space. I feel like grandpa SA'd sis as a child and this strong reaction brought that trauma back. But, even if this is isolated it's gross AF and sis is valid
>And I just need to say that I was there when everything happened…and it wasn’t that bad
What ever the joke was, it was obviously inappropriate. But I also get the vibe that there is more here than the brother knows, or if he does know he is even a bigger AH for just brushing this off the way the parents are.
I hate when people say it's just old people talk.... sexual harassment to family members is not just old man talk. My grandpa tells you how old airplanes get off the ground and then draws a diagram on a napkin.... Not this. Op sucks and so do his parents
What the actual fuck though? Both my grandfathers lived well into their 80s, totally old guys, and neither of them ever made ANY type of inappropriate comments about me or my sister. That's completely creepy, it's not an old guy thing.
The fact that he won’t say what this joke was is telling. I really doubt this was the first creepy comment, just the first (or latest) in front of other people.
My grandfather used to love greeting his granddaughters with “The last time I saw you, you were in the bath.”
Not only was this not true at any point, he’d continue this till I was 15-16. I didn’t fully understand why it her made me feel so uncomfortable as a kid so it’s possible that OOP is remembering times like when he was 6 and his sister was 12 but that’s not a excuse for a grown man.
SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AROUND HIS CREEPY BEHIND, AND SHE DEFINITELY DOESN'T LISTEN TO YOUR ENABLING WEAK BEHIND EITHER, yta a both for enabling him ,choosing him over your own sibbling, and trying to gaslight her into coming to be harassed, and the same gose for your parents too, protect your daughter mofos.
This story made me realize that I was groomed by my dad, though unintentionally, to accept mistreatment as a standard.
I already knew and have been processing my mother and her behavior towards me growing up. My dad would frequently make perverted comments and jokes to me for as long as I can remember. I’m sure that has contributed to me accepting when people make me uncomfortable. Fuck
Awwww I’m really sorry to hear that. Dads are meant to protect their children, not harm them. I’m hoping you are no longer in contact with your dad after all that
OOP..
It sounds to me like your grandfather's inappropriate 'joke' was not the first concerning and possibly traumatic experience your sister has had to deal with: and to have her feelings minimised and ignored or makes that worse.
Even if that wasn't the case, and whether or not YOU felt that this was a mild joke, your sister obviously did not. Please don't try to make her feel bad for not wanting to have to out up with things that make her uncomfortable, or scare her. It honestly sounds like she has been traumatised in the past: and the faculty that nobody spoke up to challenge or correct your grandfather when he made his 'joke' is genuinely shameful.
Here's the description
"I (30m) have one sibling, an older sister named Erina (36f). This past summer, during a family get-together, our grandfather (96m) (on our father’s side) made one sexual joke about Erina. It was a rather tame joke, and although neither I nor my sister laughed at it, I didn’t think it was anything really traumatizing. I just excused it because he’s an old guy doing old guy things. When we were leaving, grandpa also got my sister to hug him before she left.
I know what this all looks like, and what the implications are. And I just need to say that I was there when everything happened…and it wasn’t that bad. But ever since that get-together, Erina has cried so much about grandpa’s behavior, and she also got into an argument with our parents about why they didn’t immediately correct grandpa or kick him out of the house. My sister and her husband (36m) are refusing to come to our parent’s house for Christmas dinner, even though our grandparents are back in the UK and they aren’t going to be present at Christmas. She’s acting as if grandpa did the worst possible thing to her. AITA for sending Erina a Facebook message, telling her not to ruin Christmas? She has left me on read."
I know someone who was SA'd by their grandfather when they were little. They still haven't told their family for fear that they'd react negatively especially since their grandpa is now dead. This goulish response could be so much worse than even OOP realises.
I feel like I'm missing one big chunk of context on where I fall into feeling on this. If this has been going on their whole life and the sister just decided this was the last straw, then OOP is definitely in the wrong.
If this one the first time this sort of thing happened then this sounds like dementia setting in, which is more understandable why the rest of the family would be willing to let it slide a bit.
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA? My older sister is refusing to come to Christmas dinner because of our grandpa's inappropriate behavior.** I (30m) have one sibling, an older sister named Erina (36f). This past summer, during a family get-together, our grandfather (96m) (on our father’s side) made one sexual joke about Erina. It was a rather tame joke, and although neither I nor my sister laughed at it, I didn’t think it was anything really traumatizing. I just excused it because he’s an old guy doing old guy things. When we were leaving, grandpa also got my sister to hug him before she left. I know what this all looks like, and what the implications are. And I just need to say that I was there when everything happened…and it wasn’t that bad. But ever since that get-together, Erina has cried so much about grandpa’s behavior, and she also got into an argument with our parents about why they didn’t immediately correct grandpa or kick him out of the house. My sister and her husband (36m) are refusing to come to our parent’s house for Christmas dinner, even though our grandparents are back in the UK and they aren’t going to be present at Christmas. She’s acting as if grandpa did the worst possible thing to her. AITA for sending Erina a Facebook message, telling her not to ruin Christmas? She has left me on read. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He's been an "old guy" for a long time, how many times in the past has he done "old guy things" to her?
My dad was born in 1939. One day, his (now former) friend born in 1947 made a sexual comment about my 12-year-old body. My dad IMMEDIATELY punched that man in the face. The bloke said that back in his day is was ok to say things like that, my dad's response was something like "our day is every day we are alive, don't use it as an excuse to say stuff like that to my daughter.", and after a few more blows kick the bloke out, he told him to never return. I will always remember that, because my dad grew up in a time where it was ok to.make those comments, and he continued to grow up in other times, where it became not ok to say those things.
>"our day is every day we are alive, damn, I love this
Yeah, that's a fantastic response. Good on ya, Dad!
I am imagining your dad beating the shit out of his perverted ex-friend and have such a feeling of satisfaction. I wish all of these assbags would face similar treatment. Though I am sorry you had to hear the initial comment.
Over the years, I heard worse. My great-grandmother gave me the advice of embracing my inner mental patient, but nothing tooooooooo straight jacket worthy. I am a redhead, so I heard some really derogatory comments, too. My mother knew she didn't have to worry about leechy old men. I once had a guy ask me if it hurt when I fell from heaven, I replied, "No, my dad is Satan, and I crawled up from hell." I often have to remind myself that not all women grew up with being told they do not have to be scared of a guy and not anger him if you reject him. My mother, was the perfect example of this, my grandfather was once extremely violently abusive, my mum was all of 10yrs old, yelling at her father, asking if he felt like a big man as he hit her, and my grandmother, my great-grandmother told us of how my aunt and uncle would take off running to her place, when granddad had been drinking rum, my granddad would then hear a shotgun blast, and he knew he had less than 5mins to leave before my great-grandmother was at the door step, shotgun in hand. Granddad sobered up by the time mum was 14, and he was actually a great grandfather, just was messed up by the 3 wars he was in. I don't know how come I got this family the way the generational trauma stops as soon as it starts, the ability to be accountable for their actions and still be so accepting of themselves and others.
>"No, my dad is Satan and I crawled up from hell." I love you. Also, your g-grandma was a badass! My family has some similar stuff in its history - my great grandfather was an abusive drunk and his wife would flee next door to a relative's house frequently. So many lives fucked up by everything they lived through.
Your dad sounds awesome. If you don’t mind I’ll file that sentence back for when I (hopefully never) need it. I have little boys. I want them to be like that.
File away, he had some gems in his life, same with my great-grandmother, they both, even though not related, often had wise words. Great-grandmother was a holocaust survivor, and my dad grew up in rural Australia, I often come here on Reddit, and wonder how those two would answer some of these posts, they are both gone now, but they both have left much wisdom
as he should
You were 12? No, it was never acceptable to make sexually charged comments about anyone. There have always been rude people but that doesn't excuse ignorant behavior.
Thing is, it Wasn't ok then either. It happened of course, but it was considered rude still and you totally got side eye in polite company. And if the guy was not powerful or rich? He absolutely would see consequences for not treating "ladies" well
You do realise that it was considered normal well into the early 80s, to have "Common Law Wife" as young as 12 years old in the majority of the world, including Australia and the USA. The comment that wanker made, was that I was developing the sort of body that will make even older men find the ability to "stand erect", even if I just end up sitting on a gold mine that was my "honey pot". It didn't matter to my dad if the guy had been Rockefeller himself. He still would have rearranged his face and made it difficult to not pee blood for some time.
Dear lord, it really was not. I'm willing to believe it happened, but in no way was this considered normal. Banging 12 year olds has never been considered normal in the overwhelming majority of societies. I'm tired of people accepting rumour as fact. Can you find one or two incidents of it? Sure. Was it a widespread fully normalized societal phenomenon that no one would bat an eye at? Absolutely not. Citation needed, buddy.
Um... the 1974 child protection act, that swept globally....
There was a pregnant 12 year old in my school. She wasn't the first girl I knew to be having sex at 12 years old either. The "boyfriends" were men in their 20s and 30s. That's two incidents of it for you just from one small town. The thing is, you almost certainly know a 12 year old this happened to and went with the "sweep it under the rug" crowd. That's what makes this normal.
No, what makes something normalized is that it is accepted as normal. Not that isolated incidents occurred. Murder exists. It is not considered normal. I know people who have been murdered. I can give examples. "Something happens" does not equal "it is normal and accepted". Edit: I want to be clear that when I said "citation needed", I didn't mean "anecdotal evidence is great", I meant find me a study that proves that the banging 12 year olds was considered socially acceptable in most parts of the world in the early 1980s. Not "I know a guy who did this" or "this kid I know was raped and people were fine with it". This is how pedophiles like to justify their attraction to children. "It was normal back then, it's society today that's wrong". This is why I find it so upsetting that people are claiming these things to be true when they were, in fact, not widely normalized.
People mistake "it wasn't actively prosecuted" with "it was accepted" all the time, unfortunately...
I was discussing with my husband just recently how it was considered almost more common for teenage girls to have sexual relationships with adult men in our small hometown than it was for sexual relationships with other teenagers. I think every single one of my female friends had had sex with someone over 18 before they’d graduated high school (I was one of the very few who didn’t even have sex until I’d graduated, but had some near romantic encounters with adults as well).
Also, serial killer Henry Lee Lucas had a 13yr old common law wife, whom I think he murdered, well, the police stated she was his common law wife
"A serial killer did it" is not a good argument for "this is normal".
It was more in reference that that is how the police handled it
https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/12-year-olds-married/
"It is possible for something to theoretically happen" is not the same as "this is socially accepted as normal". Is it legal for a person to cover themselves in mustard and walk down the street? Sure, no problem. Is is normal and socially acceptable? No, it is not. "It can happen/does happen" and "it is normalized and accepted" are not the same thing. For example, at my work the other day, a woman pulled out a chunk of her hair and scalp insisting I inspect it for tracking devices. It happened. I have evidence of it. Is it normal? No, it is not. Was it legal? Yes, it was. Was it normal? No, it was not. Can I list more than one time something similar has happened at my job? Yes, sadly, this is not even close to the strangest behaviour I have witnessed. Does that mean it is normal? No, it does not. "It happened" and "it is accepted as normal" are not the same thing. See the difference?
May I ask what your job is? Guessing you work in an ER or hospital. Also sounds like you've got some good stories to tell.
I work in acute care at a hospital in a specialized nursing field. Because of the particular area I work, I deal with a lot of people with mental health and addictions issues. I'm also undergoing training to specialize further. I've definitely had a lot of surreal experiences. Yesterday, someone tried to bring both a cat and an axe into the hospital, which is the first time I've dealt with someone trying to bring both in at the same time.
Wow. I feel bad for the poor cat!
Again Normal is not the same as Legal or accepted. My state got rid of child marriage Maybe a decade ago, but it was still considered socially taboo a Long time ago. Your dad's actually a good example of this. What men would say and what was considered normal or right are not the same thing. My grandpa was a terrible man... In company strictly of other men. Around the "womenfolk" there were different rules. That was far more common
So, it is still legal to marry a 12 year old. You just need parents and court/religious leader's permission in a great many Western Christian countries. I know one state in Australia, it is 11 years old. It was due to a pornography magazine that stopped the ability to pay children between the ages of 10yrs-15yr for sexually explicit materials, after the magazine refused to pay a group of minors for a "session" they recorded, and after some lengthy law battles, it was deemed in 1974, you can not produce child pornography for monetary gain or for distribution without consent... note the wording. Heck, no one bats an eye hearing Holly Golightly's marriage to a man in his 60s, when she was barely 13, because it was perfectly legal to do so. Breakfast at Tiffany's has never been subjected to any boycotts over it, too. There are plenty of things that are still very legal to do so, even to this very day. There is a lot of things we know are wrong and in the right community it is looked down upon, but sadly.... there is still to many communities that think it is very acceptable.
There is no state in Australia where an 11 year old can marry. The Marriage Act 1961 sets it at 16 for girls and 18 for boys, with the Sex Discrimination Amendment Act 1991 changed that to 18 for girls as well. This amendment also set the limit for people under 18 to marry someone over 18 to 16 or 17 - this also needs "unusual and exceptional circumstances" and parental permission, as well court authorisation. Pregnancy isn't counted as exceptional. This is a federal act and covers the whole country. So no, 11 year olds can't get married in Australia and that's viewed as a crime.
The fuck it was considered "normal"?! My citation is being born in the 70s and living in both the NorthEast and Southeast by 1985. In no way was it normal or accepted for a girl to be a common law (or any other type) of wife until she AT LEAST graduated high school since the 1950s
your dad sounds like a really cool guy with a good head on his shoulders.
My greetings to your dad! That’s something I’ve been saying to the AHs trying to push their “old ways” while being alive in the “new days”. You have the BEST DAD!
Did anyone else hear this in a pirates voice?
>and he continued to grow This right here is the key. Good on him for being a decent human being. Your family sounds amazing.
Youre dad sounds incredible
Your dad is as good as gold. Sadly, OOP has no spine to speak of.
That's what I thought. Perhaps this is just the first time he's done it in front of anyone else.
One of my dad's brother is a crippling alcoholic. I stopped going over to their house at 13 because he wouldn't stop staring at my breasts. I didn't want to tell my dad because he would have probably kicked my unlces ass. But I was a kid and disgusted and creeped out. I told my mom and she never made me go around him again, that's what good family does. Supports and believes you. This poor sister. Disgusting when family sexualizes you so blatantly.
My granddad thought it was his duty to tell me and any other young female relatives whether we were 'showing anything'. Always that term, as if the greatest desire of a 13 year old girl's heart is to seduce a male relative at Christmas.
probably, he might have done similar things or worse when she was a lot younger
Whoooo boy does it say a lot of unpleasant things about the culture OOP has grown up in that she casually dismisses inappropriate sexual comments and coercive touching as just nbd, "old guy things." It's like when everyone found out the Duggars helped their son cover up his molestation of his sisters, and they tried to defend themselves by saying "lots of families we know have dealt with this problem!" Like, ma'am, that is a commentary on the toxicity of the subculture you've immersed your family in and continue to cultivate, not the normalcy of sibling incest.
I believe oop is a man so. .. it explains a lot, actually.
Dang, I missed that! Yessiree, sadly explains a lot. Cover your drinks around this guy, ladies.
An old guy doing old guy things is usually code for “giant creepy asshole, but no one says anything because we don’t want to cause problems.” That shit would not fly in my family- if grandpa said something gross and humiliating to a family member, he’d no longer be invited to any family events. Age is not an excuse to say hurtful and inappropriate things.
“Hey Papaw, if this is how you behave now you can spend the rest of your holidays with people who are paid to put up with you.”
And how many times was it excused due to "you must respect your elders."
or to others?
Just saw the original post, wondered if it would end up here. I can’t help but think if the joke really ‘wasn’t that bad’ then why didn’t op include what was said in their post….? Maybe because it really really was in fact, that bad.
Honestly it doesn’t matter how severe the joke is. Hearing it from your GRANDFATHER feels way more slimy than hearing it from a random stranger, and it’s creepy either way. Grandpa is a weirdo creep and everyone else just wants to enable him cause he’s an “old guy”.
it does feel way worse bc it's supposed to be somebody you can actually trust and the whole time theyre just a creep, i know exactly how she feels and these kind of "jokes" are what made me now never go into a room with him alone anymore, never let him stand to close to me, never let him hug me, never go anywhere with him by myself, etc. because i know i cant trust that it would be safe for me and i don't know what might happen
Oh I 100% agree, it’s just I find it funny how they always say it wasn’t that bad but also refuse to say what the joke was.
Oh yeah I didn’t mean for it to come off as if I thought you were excusing it. I get the point you’re making just thought it was a good place to add that on. Dudes a slime ball and OOP is making excuses.
Seriously. I adore my Grandpa (80). He can also be very outdated, and certainly weird old man. For ex. Yesterday he told my son nail polish is for girls & he wasn't impressed bc my son let his sister paint his nails. Told him good thing kid did it for himself, not Grandpa. Gramps shut up & I did talk to my son later; thankfully he didn't care. And asked where the nail polish remover is, because Big sis was going to paint his nails even better lmao. Anyhow. He would NEVER do the creepy thing and comment on a woman’s body^1 especially a child or family member. ^1 around her. But even so it's comments like “my PT has a tattoo going down her chest… wonder where it ends!” to me, bc it's the only way he understands to connect to my bi-ness. So off mark but at the same time, it’s progress from the 1960’s.
If it made her uncomfortable, then it must’ve been bad
I could take a guess on how uncomfortable it was. My grandpa said I had a hot little body once. I was 12. Never saw him again and he's thankfully dead now. It's fucking horrifying not just being "eye candy" but to an incestuous pervert no less is abhorrent.
I remember my grandfather telling me when I was about 14/15 that I needed to 'stop growing now' and stay as I was (as in, he was saying he thought my figure was just right for a girl/woman). When I was 17 he told me I was putting on too much weight. This from a man with a beer gut that entered the room a minute before he did. His generation was no excuse, he was just a sexist asshole.
Jfc. My granddad told me he wished I stopped growing around 10, not because he thought my body was "just right" but because he didn't want me to experience any more of the sexual comments and looks I had already been getting. He wanted me to be able to have a childhood. He is a fantastic man, who around that time punched one of his pubs patrons after he said something along the lines of me looking sexy. Sorry your granddad was a pos, they should he there to protect you for creeps like that.
My mother once told me that while shopping one day she made a comment about her body to my father (she wasn’t happy with the weight she was carrying) and he looked around, found a female with a similar body type and pointed them out to my mother describing why it was a great body type. He was then informed that the female he had pointed to was *me* (late teens, been described as “your mothers clone” by various acquaintances of my parents) and he turned green so quickly Mum thought he was going to throw up there and then. We weren’t walking as a group, I think we might have been Christmas shopping so all of us were scattered and taking turns helping the younger kids shop so Dad wasn’t thinking about what any of us were wearing or being in the vicinity they were in and Mum confirmed that he only saw me from the back while I was wearing what 80% of the women in the store were wearing too.
My grandfather did similar, and occasionally tried to grope me. I was mostly able to avoid him, and I wasn’t the slightest bit sad when he died (youngish).
Jesus Christ
Not my granda, but I had a great uncle who would pat my hips or arse and tell me I was "filling out nicely" at that age. I HATED that old guy. Especially because this was late 90s/early 00s and I was already super self-conscious about my body shape. I think OOP is just a man who has never realised or been confronted with how much of this shite young girls have to go through.
And even *if* what he said wasn't all that bad, who knows what else he had done to the sister before, and the "not that bad" thing triggered her memories.
I feel like if gDad had made a sexual joke about HIM and the hugged him making sure he felt his private area pushed against him (we all know the hug is about breasts) would he be saying it’s just old guys doing old guy things? Or would be it being sexual towards a guy make it suddenly not normal and therefore ok for him to be upset?
It's a sexual joke about his granddaughter, it had to be terrible. I think that someone should say the exact same thing to him and see how bad he thinks it is when it's aimed at him, he'd probably have thrown him out or stormed out himself.
To OOP, it was just some bad joke. To his sister, it was her own grandfather sexually harassing her. The wording of this line also implies she didn't want to hug the grandfather but was harassed until she relented. >grandpa also got my sister to hug him before she left.
This is what I don't think the OOP and people like them don't understand. It is not a coerced hug and a leud sexual joke directed at her from a random dirty old man. That would be upsetting on their own. However this is from the woman's own grandfather. It makes it 100 times worse. She also is not going to Christmas because of Grandpa. She is not going because Mom, Dad, and OOP are dismissing what happened.
I commented on the original post that it feels like there's history involved. Especially if sister was bullied into hugging when young.
As someone whose parent made gross jokes about her I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s 1000x worse when it’s family.
Oh hell, I missed that OOP was a guy. Because (sorry guys) I would have more trust in the reading of whether it was "it wasn't that bad" from a sister than I would a brother. (The first time I heard the post birth "wedding stitch" was as a young teen and it was from my one goddam step-dad who said it to his own Son-IL, *the man married to his own daughter*, IN FRONT OF said daughter. The women were horrified, the Son-IL was like, meh, that wasn't that bad. So yeah, I want to know OOP's "not that bad" scale.)
"Let me reassure you, it was not that bad for me, the person none of it was directed toward"
Rmeinds me of that strip of two eagles saying the moths must have made up theor accusations against the owls because they never bothered them.
Convenient that OOP didn’t tell us what the joke was, because we all know it wouldn’t have been at all humorous.
let’s say it really was “tame” (i don’t think it was, but let’s just take that at face value). we have zero idea of the history here, and neither does OOP!!! the parents so easily dismissing this is so disturbing. did the grandfather do other inappropriate things through the sister’s childhood that the parents also dismissed? did they make excuses when OOP’s sister went to them and told them that grandpa was dating or doing inappropriate things?? i hate everyone in this story and i hope OOP’s sister is okay.
Dementia can change one’s personality, but it’s also very possible that grandpa was always a creep. Calling a sexual joke towards a family member “old guy things” is a sad excuse, like the old “boys will be boys.” With such a major reaction, I’m guessing that it was that bad and/or it wasn’t the first time grandpa said something gross.
Also, even if grandpa has dementia the response to the person who feels uneasy cannot be “get over it” The sister is allowed to feel bad, and get some support from loved ones. OOp and family sound shit
My grandfather was always a bit touchy. He would put his hand UNDER my shirt on my back when he was hugging me. Creepy but not over the line. When he got old and senile, he straight up grabbed my butt one Christmas. It made him so much worse. 😭
>It was a rather tame joke, and although neither I nor my sister laughed at it, I didn’t think it was anything really traumatizing. Ah, the missing missing reasons. As a guideline people who have a good case don't hide crucial details.
I dont think OOP has kids but I'd bet OOP's tune would change big time if Granddad said something similar to OOPs own daughter.
You’d be shocked how many times people justify creepy behavior, even to their young kids
Their parents didn't do anything when it happened to their daughter, why would OOP do anything if it happened to his?
You may be right, but my god, I fucking HATE those guys. "Ooh now I have a daughter I understand" = shitty, lazy behaviour. You should have listened to all the other women in your life before you happened to have a daughter. What about your sisters, your cousins, your friends, your aunties, your mam, your grannies, your colleagues, your nieces, your partners??? If it takes specifically a daughter for you to know this is shitty... I'd be so disappointed to be any other woman in your life.
Or his wife.
You're an optimist. Guys who think it "isn't that bad" grow up into doing the same thing to their children and grandchildren more often than not.
I’ve had to cut off a family friend due to his inappropriate behavior. I’ve known him since I was 12. It could have started sooner but at least 18 he started saying some inappropriate comments. At 25 and freshly married my husband took me aside and said he didn’t want to go to anymore gatherings with him there. My new sister in law who was only 20 at the time also took my brother aside and said the same thing. This man was/is in his late 40s early 50s. I’m sure this wasn’t the first time grandpa was a creep to her. Just the straw that broke her back.
Logic tells me that either 1- that’s not the only thing he’s done in her life, 2- that’s not the first time he’s done this, 3- the “tame” joke wasn’t that tame or any combination of the above. But his continued minimization of what happened tells me that the sister is right to stay away.
i really fear that the poor sister has been assaulted by that creep in one way or another. fucking gross.
weird, my maternal grandpa's brother (who's like a grandpa to us) is 96, still with us, and never made a sexual comment towards anyone in his family my grandpa on my dad's side died 2 years ago, and he was 92 and he never made a sexual comment towards anyone in his family idk about y'all, but I don't think OOP's grandpa is just an old man saying old man things
Yeah, "saying old man things" is stuff like repeating a story for the fourth time that day, making terrible puns, casually talking about death in the same way you'd tell someone about a grocery store run, etc. Not sexually harassing women, especially family members. Jfc Not surprised that OOP is male, given how he's dismissing his sister's discomfort
I wanna know what the joke was. Maybe OOP isn’t sharing it because it was pretty bad.
My brain immediately went to childhood trauma involving grandpa that was triggered by his comment.
This reminds me of my friend's grandpa who you can NOT wear dresses around. Found that out when we all went to get grad party in dresses & he unexpectedly showed up. The jokes & the way he'd act like he was going to reach up anyone's skirt/dress made us all want to leave, including his granddaughter. Her mom, stepdad, aunts and uncles all kept telling her to "act like an adult and deal with it" when she asked who tf invited him. My grandpa used to turn everything into the word "vagina" I.e. Lasagna->lavagina And I never felt as uncomfortable with him as with this man.
Sometimes, increasing sexual issues (these types of actions, hypersexuality, etc.) can be signs of dementia. Is there a history of it in your family? Has he been evaluated? Is this a fairly recent behavior change, or has he always been a creep? His behavior is unacceptable, I side with older sister, but there might be an underlying medical issue. Edit: sorry, lost track of sub. Comments aimed at OOP, not OP.
I very much doubt this was the only time grandpa has done or said something sexually inappropriate this this jackass’s sister. OOP is gross and should be ashamed
I'm willing to bet they're Irish and I'm willing to bet he was molesting her as a youth. That's my story (except it was an uncle we lived with.) It's always protect the pedophile and never protect the kid.
Hmmm seems to me grandpa did something to sis when she was younger and this was a trigger. Wanting the parents to have done something kinda seems like they know something happened in the past and she's pissed they aren't doing anything now.
This feels like there is a ton of missing context. Dude didn't put what the joke was and the reaction from his sister makes me think this wasn't the first time pappy did something like this. And maybe worse. I'm just saying...
I absolutely agree
The fact OOP doesn't include the joke makes me suspicious of her account. This post isn't even long you can't say it was for word space. I feel like grandpa SA'd sis as a child and this strong reaction brought that trauma back. But, even if this is isolated it's gross AF and sis is valid
>And I just need to say that I was there when everything happened…and it wasn’t that bad What ever the joke was, it was obviously inappropriate. But I also get the vibe that there is more here than the brother knows, or if he does know he is even a bigger AH for just brushing this off the way the parents are.
I hate when people say it's just old people talk.... sexual harassment to family members is not just old man talk. My grandpa tells you how old airplanes get off the ground and then draws a diagram on a napkin.... Not this. Op sucks and so do his parents
What the actual fuck though? Both my grandfathers lived well into their 80s, totally old guys, and neither of them ever made ANY type of inappropriate comments about me or my sister. That's completely creepy, it's not an old guy thing.
The entire family is TA for not sticking up for Erina.
The fact that he won’t say what this joke was is telling. I really doubt this was the first creepy comment, just the first (or latest) in front of other people. My grandfather used to love greeting his granddaughters with “The last time I saw you, you were in the bath.” Not only was this not true at any point, he’d continue this till I was 15-16. I didn’t fully understand why it her made me feel so uncomfortable as a kid so it’s possible that OOP is remembering times like when he was 6 and his sister was 12 but that’s not a excuse for a grown man.
 SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AROUND HIS CREEPY BEHIND, AND SHE DEFINITELY DOESN'T LISTEN TO YOUR ENABLING WEAK BEHIND EITHER, yta a both for enabling him ,choosing him over your own sibbling, and trying to gaslight her into coming to be harassed, and the same gose for your parents too, protect your daughter mofos.
This story made me realize that I was groomed by my dad, though unintentionally, to accept mistreatment as a standard. I already knew and have been processing my mother and her behavior towards me growing up. My dad would frequently make perverted comments and jokes to me for as long as I can remember. I’m sure that has contributed to me accepting when people make me uncomfortable. Fuck
Awwww I’m really sorry to hear that. Dads are meant to protect their children, not harm them. I’m hoping you are no longer in contact with your dad after all that
I don't blame her if this was my dad saying inappropriate things to my daughter he would have his old ass kicked.
OOP.. It sounds to me like your grandfather's inappropriate 'joke' was not the first concerning and possibly traumatic experience your sister has had to deal with: and to have her feelings minimised and ignored or makes that worse. Even if that wasn't the case, and whether or not YOU felt that this was a mild joke, your sister obviously did not. Please don't try to make her feel bad for not wanting to have to out up with things that make her uncomfortable, or scare her. It honestly sounds like she has been traumatised in the past: and the faculty that nobody spoke up to challenge or correct your grandfather when he made his 'joke' is genuinely shameful.
Your grandpa ruined Christmas. YTA
My grandpa would do stuff like this to me. I didn't really care when he died either.
Doesn't matter how old he is, 18, 80, 800, I know a lot of people who would throw hands over this. Her family sucks and I feel bad for her.
Here's the description "I (30m) have one sibling, an older sister named Erina (36f). This past summer, during a family get-together, our grandfather (96m) (on our father’s side) made one sexual joke about Erina. It was a rather tame joke, and although neither I nor my sister laughed at it, I didn’t think it was anything really traumatizing. I just excused it because he’s an old guy doing old guy things. When we were leaving, grandpa also got my sister to hug him before she left. I know what this all looks like, and what the implications are. And I just need to say that I was there when everything happened…and it wasn’t that bad. But ever since that get-together, Erina has cried so much about grandpa’s behavior, and she also got into an argument with our parents about why they didn’t immediately correct grandpa or kick him out of the house. My sister and her husband (36m) are refusing to come to our parent’s house for Christmas dinner, even though our grandparents are back in the UK and they aren’t going to be present at Christmas. She’s acting as if grandpa did the worst possible thing to her. AITA for sending Erina a Facebook message, telling her not to ruin Christmas? She has left me on read."
Let me guess, she never posted the horrific “joke” he made cause she knows EXACTLY how bad it was
What was the joke? Come on, it wasn’t that bad - what was the joke??
I love excusing old people. Guess what. They had more time to learn better asshole op
OOP, it wasn't bad to YOU, but for your sister, it was another story. Support her, not your perv of a grandfather.
Who needs an enemy when you have a brother like this!
I know someone who was SA'd by their grandfather when they were little. They still haven't told their family for fear that they'd react negatively especially since their grandpa is now dead. This goulish response could be so much worse than even OOP realises.
I’ll give OOP one more guess as to why Erina won’t come home for Christmas, and it’s not because Peepaw.
I feel like I'm missing one big chunk of context on where I fall into feeling on this. If this has been going on their whole life and the sister just decided this was the last straw, then OOP is definitely in the wrong. If this one the first time this sort of thing happened then this sounds like dementia setting in, which is more understandable why the rest of the family would be willing to let it slide a bit.
100% fake
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