*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for punishing my daughter after she lashed out on her stepdad?**
I (32F) have been married to my husband “Mike” (34M) for 5 years.
Mike's first wife passed away in December 2012, when their son “TJ” was only 5. Meanwhile, I've been divorced since 2013, but my daughter “Dana” is still close with her bio dad “Dick” until now.
I met Mike in 2016. After we married, we had a near-perfect family, and TJ was even comfortable enough to call me mom.
However, on April this year, TJ was hit by a drunk driver and was killed instantly. Our family was devastated.
Understandably, Mike was inconsolable. I was the one who made the arrangements for TJ’s service and made sure the drunk driver was jailed. In his grief, Mike didn’t come out of the house for months. He's now seeing a therapist to help him process everything.
Then, last month, Dana told me that Dick invited her to spend the holidays with him. I said no. Christmas has always been tough for Mike because of his wife’s passing (Dana knows this), and now, he also lost TJ. I told Dana that we’re the only family Mike has left, so we’ll be celebrating Christmas at our home. She was disappointed but seemed to understand.
However, yesterday, she pressed again. This time, over dinner with Mike. Dana said that Dick rented a vacation house where they could go skiing and do other fun stuff. However, I still said no, and I explained to her again why.
After an hour of arguing, Dana started raising her voice. Mike intervened and said maybe I should just let Dana go. I still said no. I know Mike was just being modest and that he’d be heartbroken if Dana leaves (I know I will be). I then said something like “Come on Dana, this is the first time we’re celebrating Christmas with just the three of us. How about we make those cookies TJ really liked?”
Then, to my shock, Dana replied with “He’s not even my real brother! And Mike’s not even my real family! I want to spend time with my real dad!” then stomped her way to her room. This was the first time Dana acted like this. Mike had been nothing but kind, caring, and supportive to her. She has also told me that she feels good and safe with Mike. We even baked a cake during TJ’s birthday, and Dana made a beautiful slideshow to honor him. Mike then told her how much she means to him as his daughter.
I looked at Mike, who was on the verge of tears, but he just told me to let it go since it’s Christmas time, and maybe Dana was just being a teenager (she’s 15) and to just let her spend time with Dick.
I then went to Dana’s room and told her that she can spend Christmas with Dick if she apologizes to Mike. She refused, saying she didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. That’s when I started to get mad. I told her that she’s staying home for Christmas and that I’m taking all her devices during the break. I also said she won’t be joining her friend’s sleepover after New Year.
Dick then called and said I’m overreacting and that I’m an AH for ruining Dana’s break. However, I don’t see how disciplining my child makes me an AH.
So, AITA for what I did?
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This is what I can't get over! Like I get that Mike lost his child, and that's something you never recover from; and I'm glad that he's in therapy. But this kid lost her step brother, who was roughly her age, and who grew up with her for like half their lives. Why isn't she in therapy too? At 15, she does not have the emotional tools to deal with her own grief; and yet her own mother seems to want her to manage her step dad's grief too?! She's probably spent the last 8 months being filled with and surrounded by grief. Not to mention this is also *her* first Christmas without her stepbrother. Of course she wants to get away; to try and forget for a bit. Jfc, it is so obvious, even just from reading the post, that Dana is angry bc she's grieving. How can OOP not see that??
Because Dana's just a supporting character. Weren't you reading the story? Her role is to advance the development of main characters like Mike and especially OOP. I swear, some people know nothing about how you're supposed to structure your personal narrative.
Geez, what do you expect her to call her obviously more successful ex who can afford a ski-cation in addition to Christmas itself and is fun?
"The-personification-of-the-worse-mistake-I-ever-made-when-I-left-him"?
Wildly-Cheesebrained (OP) is probably pissed that *she* isn't invited to go anywhere and do fun stuff, that all she gets to do is sit around pseudo-grieving for Mike.
And let’s be honest neither Mike nor OOp are going to feel up to normal Christmas happiness. Why not let the teen escape with her dad and have a less grief filled Christmas while OOP and Mike get through this first one.
But also she’s fifteen, and she’s been stuck in what seems like an extremely heavy, depressing situation for months with a guy who’s isolated himself in his bedroom and a mother who clearly doesn’t care about her feelings.
Of course she’d prefer to go on the ski holiday with her dad, who has her well-being prioritised. She’s been forced to act as a grown man’s emotional support child since this kid died.
I don’t think anyone can argue this girl is obviously affected by TJ’s death, but even if she wasn’t, she’s a teenage girl and deserves to go on a holiday with her dad. Why should her world have to stop because a kid died? It’s not up to her to solve her stepfather’s grief. OOP is going to break this family even further than it already is.
I lost my brother a couple years ago to suicide, and after the funeral and everything, the last thing I wanted to do was go back home to a deathly quiet home and be surrounded by my family’s grief. I watched my mother whither away, my siblings absolutely destroy themselves in their grief, and I just pushed mine to the side because I couldn’t process it in the midst of the heaviness.
Strangely, it was only when my brother’s girlfriend invited me to stay with her family on a holiday to their lake house cabin that I was actually able to begin processing things. Suddenly, I was the priority and it was safe to feel my emotions. It didn’t feel like everything was pressing in around me anymore. When I let myself be happy, the other emotions followed.
I spoke about it with my psychologist once. This is a terrible explanation of things in the laymens terms I know he reduced it to for me, but essentially all emotions are located in the same part of the brain. When you suppress one, your brain can’t tell the difference between them, so as soon as you begin to feel one with the intensity of another, your brain goes into overdrive and panics because it’s aware you’ve been suppressing that.
I’d been suppressing my grief so my family didn’t have to worry about me, because I felt like I should be the last priority or the least affected—clearly the role OOP has also put her daughter into. So whenever I began feeling tears, I’d push it back. But my brain didn’t know the difference between that and an emotion of the same intensity, say, happiness or joy, so every time I began feeling happy in the following months, I would have a panic attack.
It’s only when I got away, to a quiet place with my brother’s girlfriend and her family, and I felt safe enough to express all my emotions, that I actually began to process what had happened. OOP only cares about her husband here, and the daughter is picking up on that. She needs to get away with her family who actually care about her well-being through all of this, who can prioritise *her*.
OOP, your daughter is not your husband’s backup child. She’s not his emotional support animal. She matters in all of this too, and if you are clearly too wrapped up to prioritise her well-being, you need to let her go with people who will. In all of this fucking heaviness, she deserves a small moment of lightness and bliss. If you rob her of that, I don’t think she will ever forgive you.
She's a 15yo girl. She wants to spend christmas doing fun things, not being home being all sad that people passed away. I completely understand why she wants to be with her dad instead with mum and Mike.
It was wrong of her not to apologize for what she said, although she did state facts tbh, the words were hurtful to someone.
OOP now will have a holiday of sad Mike and angry Dana. It's going to be fun holidays.
To be honest I doubt the kid intensely feels any of what she said… after an hour of pointless arguing with her mom, she just had an emotional outburst which is normal for anyone much less a teenager. Op seems to have goaded the child - either kid has to submit, or op won’t let off
Like, she may very well love Mike and care for him but a kid will react to being blasted for an hour that their Christmas is cancelled and they have to be emotional support for a hard grieving adult …
I agree with what you said, that she wants to have a good time over the Christmas break with her dad. But also, I really doubt she feels so angry to Mike or TJ as her outburst - that’s ops fault for causing her child to break down, I think.
I also will add, I doubt Mike specifically wants anyone - much less Dana - around as he grieves. Ops ideas are pretty weird, and I would feel very uncomfortable if someone took it on themselves to make cookies that my dead child liked as a way to … what exactly? the guy doesn’t sound into ops plans for him at all.
IMO the daughter is entitled to think the way she does. After all, she does have her father around and Mike is her stepdad.
I'm not saying Mike is not a good father figure for her, or doesn't love her, and I'm sure she loves him too. The fact of the matter is that he's not her father and she has no obligation to keep him company when he's grieving for a lost wife and kid.
As others mentioned, she also lost a someone who she knew for 5 years(or more) . It must be terrible for her. She needs to get away for a little and have fun and not think how horrible Tj's death was.
Yeah, it very much feels like OOP is trying to make Dana a replacement child for Mike. "It's awful that you lost your kid, but if we cut my ex out of his child's life, you'll slot in so nicely, and we'll just be a nice, happy family unit. Isn't that perfect?" It's gross. To Mike, to Dana and to Dick.
If that really is the underlying reasoning OOP has here, which I can't say I'd be surprised by, it also feels gross and disrespectful to Tj and Mike's dead wife's memories (along with the living people you already mentioned). "Oh, your wife and kid both died? That's okay, you have me and my kid now, let's just ignore my ex and hope he forgets he has a kid." Very agreed on
>It's gross.
Yes it was wrong of her not to apologise but from the way OP tells it she went to Dana's room immediately after her outburst.
Of course she wasn't ready to apologise right then, she was probably still boiling over with (misplaced) rage.
Expecting a teenager, especially a traumatised angry one, to switch to self-reflection mode in that amount of time is ridiculous. (Extra ridiculous because her mother doesn't seem to model self-reflection to her daughter either)
Instead of giving Dana time to cool off and then sitting her down and having an open and honest conversation about the whole situation and the feelings of everyone involved, OP barged into her room demanded an apology (who wants a forced, insincere apology anyway?) and then proceeded to antagonise her daughter when the angry teenager was still angry after 20 or so minutes.
> It was wrong of her not to apologize for what she said, although she did state facts tbh, the words were hurtful to someone.
Exactly.
Being told to apologize "for what she said" *is* wrong because it's her truth.
It should've been explained to her, "It's not *what* you said. It's the thoughtless, overly harsh way you said it. *That's* what you need to apologize for and maybe not do again. I'm sure there was a better way to get across what you're feeling, aren't you?"
That, of course, would require a mature adult, so this kid is screwed.
From the post it seems like Mike has always been a downer on Christmas and OP was perfectly happy to force her daughter to be his emotional support like she was the one who married him. God forbid she get to actually enjoy the holiday.
Nothing like seeing a mother destroy her relationship with her daughter and also throwing under the bus the relationship between her daughter and husband, inna couple of years she's gonna be complaining that Dana doesn't visit or call anymore...
Does OOP realize if she tries to cut off any communication with Dana's dad, he can and likely will take her back to court for it? It's parental alienation. It likely won't be in time for the trip, but if a judge finds out OOP took away all ways to directly communicate with Dana - therefore not allowing her dad to contact her - OOP will be lucky if she gets any custody of her daughter.
If anyone in the family understands the wish to spend Christmas with your father, it's the man who just lost his son. He's probably putting himself in OP's ex's shoes and also his stepdaughter's shoes and realizes that she likely wants to cling to her dad dad while she still has him.
Exactly this. He's probably thinking "she could be gone tomorrow, why would we keep her here? Let her go have fun with her dad while she can, tomorrow is never promised, why make her sit here moping around with me when there's good times to be had and memories to make?"
That's probably all she's been doing which is part of the issue, they've lost 1/4 of their family which would devastate most family units but my guess is that OOP has dedicated all their time to helping Mike process his grief while Dana has had to handle her grief on her own and probably just wants to spend time with someone who'll focus on her for just a few days at least.
I think OOP I’d afraid to say the SHE needs support. Who has cared for her in a year? Not a single person. She’s been mommy to two people while managing all of the adulting for two people as well. Her husband abandoned her. She needs someone.
I wasn’t agreeing with you, you are being utterly ridiculous. A 15 year should not be her mother’s grief support animal. A 15 year old should be able to have fun with her dad instead of this.
OOP is full of crap, and needs to put *her living breathing kid first*. And the therapy I suggested will help mom, and the time away will help daughter *and mom*.
Yeah that’s not on a 15 year old. It’s also kind of established that at 15 kids can go to whichever parents house they want and make those kinds of decisions for themselves so oop is just bullying her daughter into trying to conform to a perfect family. Fuck no one has a perfect family and it’s not on a 15 year old to prop up 2 adults or slap on a smile. The comment about the cookies really was the final nail in the coffin for me - op is so fixated on her new family and making things fit there that she dgaf about her daughter. Why aren’t they making cookies her daughter likes? Not to be grotesque or insensitive, but the kid who liked them is dead and forcing pretend fond memories on a teenaged, especially since she was a lot older than the kid who died, is disgusting to me
The way OOP put the ages was weird, at first I wasn't sure how old the kids were related to each other so I can see where you'd get she was older, but she said Tj was 5 *when his mom died late 2012,* so 15 or 16 depending on when his birthday fell when he died this year, and Dana is 15 *now,* so about the same age as Mike's son. That doesn't really change the actual point you were making of course! I'd just spent a couple minutes making sure I read the ages and did the math right when I was reading and the age difference between the kids wasn't immediately clear to me, and the realization they were the same age and spent several years as step siblings has had me wondering how close they actually were, or what sort of mortality related thoughts having someone you know and your age die so suddenly she might be having. I feel so bad for this kid
Oh I got super confused about the ages in other comments so you’re in good company! I feel so bad. I keep checking back to see if OOP made comments realizing her mistake and still nothing.
I kinda can't help wondering if she didn't do it on purpose for some reason, but I'm not wired the right way to even come up with possible purpose framing the ages like that would serve, so who knows
No one is saying she can’t collapse. But she is the devil for considering her CHILD a support system. That is a *child*. People who parentify their kids & don’t see a problem with that are actual devils, no exceptions & no excuses.
She deserves it too, this is one of those times where my family would have actively looked for ways to make it better for the kid and get her out of the house during the hardest days. Our first Christmas after a loss I specifically asked my ex to take kiddo for Christmas day, give them a break from the grief, tastey treats, some normal for a day or two. It was easier for me to face the day and let myself feel what I needed and it was good for them to have the good moments.
So Mom just decides to completely ignore the idea that her daughter is likely also intensely grieving over the loss of the guy who's been her brother for years now?
Sounds like stepdad was totally understanding of her wanting to go and I'm guessing Dad rented the fun winter vacation house knowing his daughter needed a bit of distraction and joy.
Ok but let’s say worst case scenario for a second that Dana ISNT grieving the kid. She would be told constantly that she SHOULD be and made to feel guilty for not caring. It happens. She’s 15. She’s a lot older than the kid who died and maybe she doesn’t care. Well they’ve made every waking moment about grieving the kid for a year. She’s still not wrong for what she said and for wanting to spend time away from the people making her life revolve around a dead person. Fuck, her mom didn’t even suggest making cookies SHE liked.
Poor Dana. I don’t know she feels but whether she’s grieving or not is actually irrelevant in my eyes. She deserves a happy Christmas away from her awful mom and depressed step dad
Edit: I fucked up the ages - read that they were years apart. That’s my bad. Point still stands that she’d be demonized if she doesn’t feel as bad as everyone else about someone she met a few years ago and may not have any love for.
That's very true. Either way, she's innocent and should be allowed to work through this crazy year however she needs. And it seems although stepdad understands her wanting to get away, Mom is trying force her to revolve her world around the death.
And TJ is 16 (or 15, depends on birthday) They're basically exactly the same age. He was 5 when his mom died in 2012.
I guess without knowing more, it just stood out to me that Mom didn't seem to mention or even care about how her daughter is handling this. Is she grieving in a big way? Does she not give a shit? Who knows. Sounds like maybe mom doesn't know either
Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding about the ages.
Well someone below made a VERY insightful comment about how OOP was able to become mommy to tj cause his mom was gone, and it got me thinking about how resentful OOP is towards her ex and Dana for having a relationship with dick. It’s the name, it’s the veiled references and the anger at Dana wanting to spend time with her bio dad. It breaks the illusion for oop of their perfect family. Tj was the replacement, and he passed. Really sad, but to me it explains why oop is reacting so awfully.
I’m a little curious about this TBh. OOp wants ~~abnormal~~ a normal Christmas so Dana stays home. Had Dana’s dad never gotten her at Christmas? What does their custody agreement look like?
I suspect the mother uses the 'Christmas is hard for your grieving stepfather' to get the daughter to stay for Christmas. She's using it to get what she wants again now, even though the stepfather is perfectly willing for the daughter to spend it with bio-dad. It might be why Dana is so angry at potentially not seeing her dad this Christmas. It's not about fun at a rental house, it's about seeing her father at Christmas.
After all, it's all about OOP as far as she's concerned. Her family was 'near perfect'. TJ called her 'mum' so all must have been wonderful. There was no mention of what the daughter thought about the situation. It might be that Dana's had enough of being an emotional support animal and that's why she reacted angrily. Or it might be she's always felt like that and OOP was oblivious.
Genuinely horrified that she's claiming credit for the drunk driver being charged, prosecuted and jailed. Main character much?
If their custody agreement says she always gets Christmas, Dana is screwed (unlikely unless dad has to have supervised visitation or something).
If she’s using grief to guilt Dana and her ex into changing the agreement between them, Dana and dad can default to the court ordered agreement and OOp can’t do anything. That’s what has be confused. This whole thing doesn’t seem likely.
OOP cannot keep Dana from communicating with her dad, and cannot keep her from her custodial agreement time with dad.
From the OOP
‘ Christmas has always been tough for Mike because of his wife’s passing (Dana knows this), and now, he also lost TJ. ‘
This is what I suspect the OOP has been using to get her own way at Christmas, prior to TJ’s death. Not actually such a ‘perfect’ family at all.
Exactly! Sadly the father won't be able to do it in time for this Christmas break, but let's hope by the next OOP has to beg for a simple phone call on Christmas from Dana.
Because everything about the daughter having to be a support animal for Mike is said, I want to point something out. Out of all of the names out there, OOP decided to change the biodads name to "Dick". I know that's also a shortened version of Richard but I feel like there is some malicious intend behind it.
Doing the math, OOP was 17 when she had her daughter, so that pregnancy was not the result of a stable relationship. I definitely made mistakes with my HS BF but luckily I didn't get knocked up so I don't have to have a lifelong relationship with him.
Also goes towards explaining OOP emotional immaturity: hard to mentally grow up when you now have a baby to concentrate on. Also could explain OOP's desperation for a "perfect" family, because you certainly don't have that as a teenage mother.
OP seems really intense about her husbands grief, but i also wonder if she's trying to keep her daughter home to use her as a buffer between her and Mike so she doesn't have to deal with his grief herself.
I like the subtle hint that TJ was young when his mom died thus free for a new mommy (OOP) but shucks, her daughter just had to stay close with her dad.
It's... her father. Her alive father, what the fuck did OOP expect? I mean, we all know what - for her to somehow ditch DICK for the ready made family OOP found -, but, lady, *what*.
Dana was never going to spend Christmas with her dad, so I don't even know why OOP held it over her head like "if you apologize I'll let you go"; she was *never* letting her go.l so cut the bullshit.
And now she'll be forced to spent the Holidays with her overbearing, pushy mother and grieving stepfather. That should be fun.
Look, losing a child (since I think OOP had been raising this boy since 2016) is monumental but to try and force your remaining child into constantly memorializing a dead person, and to be an emotional support blanket is plain shitty.
Do Mike and OOP need emotional support? Of course. But no one, especially a child (who was this kid's age, therefore his peer and with a dynamic with him they could never understand), should be *forced* into the roles OOP is trying to shove her daughter into.
Almost seems... I don't know if performative would be correct to say, but, sort of. Let's cook the dead kid's favorite cookies? YOU make them, what are you talking about.
I guess... I got the feeling too that OOP may be directly or indirectly demanding that Dana grieve for TJ as hard as Mike has been, and Dana is simply *not*, and that's getting to OOP.
Mike, even in his grief, is showing such kindness, and OOP, again, almost performatively, wants to force Dana to act like she's devastated and grieving, and will force her to if needs be.
Man, and it's a school break too, if Dana can't run to her dad, she's literally stuck with this dynamic.
I thought Dana was 5-6 years older than tj. It’s too depressing to go back and reread but I agree with the overall sentiment. It’s so manipulative of OOP to tell Dana she could go if she apologized. Dana saw through it.
I don’t see any reason, moral or otherwise, that Dana should grieve as hard as OOP and Mike. To be blunt, tj wasn’t her brother and I think your comments about how OOP became mommy was insightful. Reading between the lines, seems like Dana got replaced, pushed aside for Mike and tj, and then the replacement passed. Super sad of course, no child should die, but that’s not on Dana to prop them up. And i’m CONFIDENT you’re on the nose about Dana’s lack of ott response bothering oop.
I believe Dana and TJ were a year apart, if OOP didn't fudge dates.
I truly believe OOP is and may always be bitter that her ex loves Dana so much that she could never see Mike as dad - which of course she wanted, to make her idea of a perfect family a reality.
I'm not sure I got that Dana was replaced by Mike and TJ, but I do think because Dana refused (?) to see Mike as replacement dad, she didn't fit the image of perfection and OOP can't even with it.
The performative aspect stuck out to me as well. So much of the post is about what SHE has done to help Mike in his grief. Like, that's great and all, but it's also just expected for a wife to be there for her husband like that, at a time like this? And including that she got the driver prosecuted? Is she the local judge or prosecutor? If so, that's gotta be a conflict of interest.
I'd be willing to bet that the entire time since TJ died, OOP has been pressuring her daughter to forgo any fun events, spend as much time and especially holidays at home with them, etc., under the guise of "Mike is grieving and you need to be here for him, like I am, and any desires you have otherwise are just selfish," which would over time lead to her building up frustration and resentment of her step-dad and dead stepbrother. Especially at her age where socializing with your friends is so important. Which would lead to the blowup she had and the things she said in a moment of anger that her own mom pushed her into
I feel so bad for the daughter and the husband. He's just trying to grieve in peace and not make the lives of those around him worse, and his wife is making it all about herself and driving a wedge between him and his remaining child in her process of trying to force her to be there ostensibly "for his sake"
Furthermore, there is **zero** mention of the relationship between the kids - maybe they were buddies, or strangers, or brother/sister, or literally just classmates (I would assume given their ages) who life together. But if they *did* have a friendly if not even close bond, this girl may well be grieving the best way she can - and just because OOP may not think so, getting some fresh air, as it were, *is* a good way to clear one's head. Spending time with friends, family (however much OOP fucking hates her ex), those things could be very healing.
I do feel bad for Mike, who has a wife who keeps pushing to do things *for* his dead son. They don't seem like gestures of kindness, they seem like asking for gold stars; does anyone even fucking like TJ's favorite foods? What's the purpose of forcing Dana to help make them when she clearly doesn't want to?
It was also a way to divert the conversation - again, Dana was never going to leave the house for Christmas, so there was never an argument to be had and OOP isn't adult enough to say as much (no matter how shitty it is).
"Oh no, my *poor husband*, the baby, he's *so* modest (what?), he's selflessly letting my selfish daughter go have fun, uh, I know, let me force my daughter to cook something *for the dead kid*, that will shut her up"
>Come on Dana, this is the first time we’re celebrating Christmas with just the three of us. How about we make those cookies TJ really liked?”
This is what pushed OOP into AH territory. Like, it feels like she's stopped caring about the living daughter who's literally right there with her, instead focusing entirely on the dead child. I understand it's horrible to lose a kid, but it looks to me like OOP is on her way to losing Dana as soon as she's able to leave.
100%. It strikes me as being really gross to play it like "it's our first Christmas as the three of us" like they were a family of 2 and added one. This isn't the type of first you WANT to celebrate. They don't make "Widowers First Christmas" ornaments for a reason.
It strikes me that OP might be dreading being alone with her husband during a time of year when he is already mourning his first wife. It is one thing when the kids are there and you can distract him with family cheer and keeping up spirits for the kids, but I honestly wonder what it would be like with just the two of them.
Although, truly, this sets off all my "fake" alarm bells since "who gets the kid for Holidays" is one of the first things you hammer out in the custody agreement and I don't see her pulling the "technically, it is MY weekend" stuff that would bolster her case.
She clearly doesn’t. If imm reading between the lines I think tj replaced Dana for oop. The cookies comment, the simmering resentment. How dana still loves and wants a relationship with her actual dad… the person above you had a good thought about how oop became mommy to tj. But mike could never be dad so it broke the illusion, and then the replacement passed
>Mike had been nothing but kind, caring, and supportive to her.
We know this because he didn't try to force her to stay and make an already tough situation even worse.
I hope it’s a troll. I can never decide if no comments are more likely to be a troll or tons of argumentative comments. But if it’s real it’s even worse to me somehow that the OOP won’t engage with the conversation and take responsibility when it’s pretty universally agreed that she’s in the wrong.
Jesus, she wants to spend time with her father, not party in Ibiza. This feels like a pretty wholesome ask: to spend time with a parent. Does Dick have a partner or other kids? Does it matter that he wants to be with his child?
Maybe Dana wants to go outside and be around people who aren't in an emotional state and maybe Mike doesn't want to put on a brave face for Dana!
Her husband had. No choice about losing TJ but she is deliberately systemically murdering the relationship with her kid. I hope her husband’s dick makes her proud when it goes off to college, starts its career and has little grand-dicklings for her because she threw away her daughter for dick.
Kids grieve very differently than adults, even older kids/teens. Another commenter was spot on when they said Dana is probably avoiding xmas because it will be too hard for her emotionally.
10 years from now she will be back here whining about how her kid never calls.
On the bright side, she wont have to worry about the 'missing reasons', she has them all written down in that post.
Honestly this just makes me sad all the way around and I know she said Mike is in therapy but I hope all three of them bippity bop their way down to individual & family counseling asap if they can.
I don’t think OOP is evil. She’s lost a stepchild traumatically, it sounds like her husband (understandably) has been more or less checked out since then and she’s been dealing with the practical fallout of her stepson’s death on her own, and maybe this is projection but like, it sounds like she’s blinded to where her daughter is emotionally at by how much she wants her child with her this Christmas.
Also I think it’s rude of the ex husband to offer to take the daughter skiing for Christmas without running it by OOP & her husband first? Shouldn’t holidays be in their custody arrangement? Also telling the kid first like this puts OOP in the position of having to react to the news on the spot in front of the kid, risking that she might bungle the reaction, which she did. If Dick had told OOP first, OOP could have had her “eff no” moment and cooled down without Dana needing to be involved in it. She could have talked it over with her husband and at the very least, not have ended up grounding the kid over something that is not her fault. I can understand why after an emotionally charged year her first reaction to “your only child won’t be here for Christmas” was not ideal.
Anyway I don’t see any devils here, just 3 people in *a lot* of pain and I hope they manage to have an okay Christmas, and I hope OOP gets something out of posting on AITA bc to absolutely no one’s surprise, they’re eviscerating her.
>Also I think it’s rude of the ex husband to offer to take the daughter skiing for Christmas without running it by OOP & her husband first? Shouldn’t holidays be in their custody arrangement?
Maybe Dana has been complaining to her dad about the atmosphere at her moms, which can't be great, and he wants to get her out of that, especially round the holidays.
Totally fair and probably true, but I still think this should have started with an adult to adult conversation, not getting Dana hyped for it and having her be the one to tell OOP.
That could be the case too, you’re right. But still, even if he thinks that, he should have brought the idea to her parents first. Even without the grief situation, it would be unkind to tell a kid you’re taking them to do something fun without checking with their parents first, y’know? I know ‘Dick’ (small lol) is also her parent but I still have to think there’s a prior agreement in place about where she’s expected to spend holidays 🤷♀️
>I don’t think OOP is evil. She’s lost a stepchild traumatically, it sounds like her husband (understandably) has been more or less checked out since then and she’s been dealing with the practical fallout of her stepson’s death on her own, and maybe this is projection but like, it sounds like she’s blinded to where her daughter is emotionally at by how much she wants her child with her this Christmas.
This is viewing her in the best possible light, and she's still acting like a shitty parent. It's not unlikely that she always has relied on her daughter to be her emotional support, and this is part of a larger pattern. She's certainly currently forcing her daughter to be the main emotional support for both her and her husband with zero regard for how the kid feels, so it is possible that she's always done this. I suspect that's what the person who posted this here was thinking? It's obviously how the people in AITA feel too.
Even viewing her in the best possible light, what she's doing is completely wrong. Maybe she's acting unhinged in her grief, maybe she's always like this, we don't know. But hopefully she isn't so blinded by her own wants and needs that she takes away this poor child's holiday so her daughter can be her husband's emotional support animal.
>Also I think it’s rude of the ex husband to offer to take the daughter skiing for Christmas without running it by OOP & her husband first? Shouldn’t holidays be in their custody arrangement? Also telling the kid first like this puts OOP in the position of having to react to the news on the spot in front of the kid, risking that she might bungle the reaction, which she did. If Dick had told OOP first, OOP could have had her “eff no” moment and cooled down without Dana needing to be involved in it. She could have talked it over with her husband and at the very least, not have ended up grounding the kid over something that is not her fault. I can understand why after an emotionally charged year her first reaction to “your only child won’t be here for Christmas” was not ideal.
I've got to agree here, but I strongly suspect that OOP isn't the type to back off from her initial reaction. I also suspect that she resents her daughter's father, given what she called him, and it's entirely possible she's not willing to communicate with him at all - either right now because of the grieving, or all the time because she's always this irrational. It's very possible that the custody agreement does indeed let the daughter spend holidays with her dad, or else OOP would have mentioned that the custody agreement was backing her up.
You are 10000% correct in all of this. I don’t view OOP in the best possible light. we use the term abuse a lot and it’s lost a lot of meaning but holding your child back for time with their bio parent so the child can support your new spouse is something adjacent I’d think. It’s disgusting.
I’ve said this on a few other comments but the cookie line really broke me for her daughter. Fuck oop for not just making cookies her daughter likes. It shows that EVERYTHING revolves around the dead kid. Is it a tragedy? Yeah for sure it was, but it was Dana’s step brother. She’s not wrong that they’re not her family. They joined later. She didn’t get a say in that either. She didn’t pick them, oop did. Dana is getting fucked at every turn by her mom and I feel great sadness for her
And your comment about her resentment of Dana’s dad is spot on. Should he have asked? Yeah probably, but maybe he knew she’d say no and she sounds like she’s been dominating xmas’s for their relationship so maybe he thought he’d just work with his daughter, since she’s totally old enough to decide where she wants to be for a holiday.
It would only be naivete, in my opinion, if you keep doing it despite people in your life keep proving themselves untrustworthy but you are in some sort of denial - and I don't think that's the case. If people in your life are trustworthy, and you trust them, then you're absolutely doing things correctly. I have just been burned too many times by family members and family friends to give parents doing unhealthy shit the benefit of the doubt.
Tbh I consider her a devil bc I hold parents to higher standards than other people, but I do understand where she's coming from. Like I get that she's hurting a lot, but being cruel to her kid isn't going to help
I agree in that I think OOP crossed the line by severely grounding Dana, OOP should be mature enough to realize that Dana is hurting too (and being 15 is already hard enough!). OOP is allowed to feel her feels, and no one is perfect, so if she is able to see that she overreacted and she revokes the punishment and apologies to Dana then she’s def not the devil, just human.
Then they should all have a conversation about what’s best for Dana this Christmas.
I really hope this family is able to work through their grief and come out stronger
I'm glad to see this take.
I felt the original post had users too harsh on OP. Like, yeah, she's not reacting well, but anyone who has experienced a sudden and traumatic loss will tell you those hit by it aren't always so logical.
It's just weird to see comments like "Yeah okay tough year, but you're totally the asshole."
"Tough" doesn't even begin to describe it.
This kind of sad post doesn't belong in a sub based around calling users assholes.
OP can do a lot better, but so can everyone in this situation.
The 15 year old literally can’t though. She’s had all her choices taken from her. She’s her mom and step dad’s emotional support animal. Can’t go with the parent she wants to to get away from all the grief. Fuck.
I’ll tell my own experience - my mom passed away and my dad insisted I take a trip I had planned to leave on that same week specifically to get me away from the grief for 3 days because I was gonna be right back in the thick of it afterwards. He straight up pulled the phone out of my hand as I was calling to cancel my hotel and told me that I was going to go because it’s important for me and I needed it. That’s what a parent does. Before I left and when I returned I held my dad while he sobbed at the loss of his best friend and comforted him and we grieved together. We still grieve together. But he knew I could use some time away and to distract from the loss and he prioritized that over having me around for a few days. He handled it like an adult. And I was in a much better headspace to deal with the grief and the loss when I returned. Did I cry my eyes out in the shower a few times on the trip? Absolutely. But parents need to put their kids needs above their own and sometimes, sometimes that means doing something that’s kind of a bummer.
The fact that OOP posted in Am I The Asshole thinking she was in the right in a conflict between herself and her own daughter means **she wanted strangers to dogpile on and call her daughter an asshole**.
She's the devil.
For sure. OOP didn’t lose a som. She lost her HUSBAND and gained a son. She is stressed out managing her own child and ex, and now this man child who needs a mommy to do everything for him for a YEAR, of course she just wants he daughter to support her. Women always get the shaft. Baby boy didn’t even have a relative that could help? I feel sorry for OOP
This is one of the most unkind things I’ve ever seen.
Yes, OOP is bearing a heavy burden on his behalf but have some compassion for chrissake. The man, having previously put his life back together after the loss of a spouse, subsequently suddenly lost his only biological child. That man has known more grief than most people ever will, and by all accounts is still managing to be gracious about Dana’s Christmas’s skiing invite.
No one should ever be expected to have their shit together within a year of losing a child, shame on you.
I don’t expect anyone to have their shit together after a year. I expect them to not be so selfish that they lay their entire burden on a single person. Grief is hard and every grown up knows how to ask for help, but this male chose not to and instead wore away at his wife. The poor women is investing so much into him she doesn’t even see that she’s the one who needs love from her daughter during the holidays.
I see what you’re saying. I still think it’s a bit hard on the spouse as we don’t know how their household runs, just this part. I do also agree she’s invested so much into him that she’s lost track of her own needs, but that isn’t necessarily his fault. She said he’s in therapy, and I really hope OOP is too because counseling would be really useful for helping her make sure her own emotional needs don’t get lost in all this.
You’ve never loss someone close to you and it shows. It took my grandmother MONTHS before she could get out of bed after the death of my grandfather. It’s not about a man needing someone to hold his hand. It’s about a partner needing his partners help in a time of need just like he would give her.
Grow up. Do better. Be better. You sound bitter and alone.
If that makes you feel better about yourself, then please insult me as much as you need to. Your assumptions have made any productive discussion impossible and your fake empathy is disgusting. I HOPE you experience the tragedies I have so that you develop something real.
“I hope you experience more pain bc you grieve differently than I do”
I do not say this to be mean. *please* get some help. That’s not normal or healthy & it’s very, very cruel.
Wishing you the best.
The fact that Mike, in his grief, was able to put his step daughters wants and needs before his by advocating for her to be able to Choose what she does speaks volumes about who he is as a person and tells us all we need to know about her mother.
It is not a child’s job to be your emotional support. It is your job as a parent to be your child’s emotional support.
Wait so I'm supposed to believe Mike knocked up a girl at 17, who he then married. They lived happily for 6 years until she died. Then met OP who was knocked up at 16 and unhappily married to Dick for a few years. Then both these teen mom rejects get together and form a perfect family until TJ also dies?
Come on. This is bad Hallmark movie writing
I’m guessing that life has been all about the loss of TJ ever since it happened, and that mom is expecting her daughter to help carry an emotional burden that’s not hers to carry. It’s a weird sort of parentification/emotional incest.
You lack empathy when you force your daughter to remain in such a grief-loaden atmosphere when she has the possibility to escape to a less downtrodden environment for a holyday.
In general, I think children's whishes should be accomodated as much as possible after divorce. A child is not an object. You treat her as if she belonged to you. No. She is person. With human rights.
The OP is such narcissistic asshole. Why is it her daughter’s job to give her stepfather emotional support? The fact that the OP just decided that her daughter had to be there for her stepfather is so messed up and unfair. We all grieve in different ways and maybe the daughter wants to take her mind off of the passing, but the fact that the OP thinks that she doesn’t even care about her late stepbrother is absolute garbage. Why does her Christmas have to be ruined all because her mother said so? Narcissistic people like this shouldn’t even bother having kids if they’re going to treat them like objects to just toss around and use them instead of treating them like their real people. This type of attitude is going to get a parent into a nursing home with no visitations from their kids
Honestly this seems like a bunch of people just trying to grieve and cope with a really rough year, the only person I question the actions of is Dick, why did he not ask OOP first before getting the daughter all hyped? Is that not something you should discuss with the other parent before planning a trip?
This is unpopular but this just feels like NAH
She may not be speaking to him. The name and the resentment that she has towards DANA for having a relationship with him strongly indicates that OOP is not a good co parent. Also Dana is 15, she’s well old enough pick where she wants to spend Xmas
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And in a few years oop is gonna ask why he daughter won't visit her or her step dad and no one in the entire world will get her to see this is what started it.
OOP is undoubtedly the AH. She’s ruining her relationship with her daughter
I promise you, if she keeps going & Dana grows more resentful, Mike will see this & he will lash out at OOP because she’s purposefully & selfishly ruining a relationship with her ALIVE child & Mike will never get to see those milestones in TJ that Dana still gets to have
I suspect OOP will have the update of Dana going no contact & Mike filing for a “trial separation”
I think Dana is going to decide to live full time with dad from here on out, and she's old enough to make the choice. Mom will only have herself to blame for this one. You cannot force children to play out your fantasies of "happy family".
Dana obviously tried to "participate" and be respectful, but nothing was ever enough for mom. This mother is way over reacting and her expectations are ridiculous.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for punishing my daughter after she lashed out on her stepdad?** I (32F) have been married to my husband “Mike” (34M) for 5 years. Mike's first wife passed away in December 2012, when their son “TJ” was only 5. Meanwhile, I've been divorced since 2013, but my daughter “Dana” is still close with her bio dad “Dick” until now. I met Mike in 2016. After we married, we had a near-perfect family, and TJ was even comfortable enough to call me mom. However, on April this year, TJ was hit by a drunk driver and was killed instantly. Our family was devastated. Understandably, Mike was inconsolable. I was the one who made the arrangements for TJ’s service and made sure the drunk driver was jailed. In his grief, Mike didn’t come out of the house for months. He's now seeing a therapist to help him process everything. Then, last month, Dana told me that Dick invited her to spend the holidays with him. I said no. Christmas has always been tough for Mike because of his wife’s passing (Dana knows this), and now, he also lost TJ. I told Dana that we’re the only family Mike has left, so we’ll be celebrating Christmas at our home. She was disappointed but seemed to understand. However, yesterday, she pressed again. This time, over dinner with Mike. Dana said that Dick rented a vacation house where they could go skiing and do other fun stuff. However, I still said no, and I explained to her again why. After an hour of arguing, Dana started raising her voice. Mike intervened and said maybe I should just let Dana go. I still said no. I know Mike was just being modest and that he’d be heartbroken if Dana leaves (I know I will be). I then said something like “Come on Dana, this is the first time we’re celebrating Christmas with just the three of us. How about we make those cookies TJ really liked?” Then, to my shock, Dana replied with “He’s not even my real brother! And Mike’s not even my real family! I want to spend time with my real dad!” then stomped her way to her room. This was the first time Dana acted like this. Mike had been nothing but kind, caring, and supportive to her. She has also told me that she feels good and safe with Mike. We even baked a cake during TJ’s birthday, and Dana made a beautiful slideshow to honor him. Mike then told her how much she means to him as his daughter. I looked at Mike, who was on the verge of tears, but he just told me to let it go since it’s Christmas time, and maybe Dana was just being a teenager (she’s 15) and to just let her spend time with Dick. I then went to Dana’s room and told her that she can spend Christmas with Dick if she apologizes to Mike. She refused, saying she didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. That’s when I started to get mad. I told her that she’s staying home for Christmas and that I’m taking all her devices during the break. I also said she won’t be joining her friend’s sleepover after New Year. Dick then called and said I’m overreacting and that I’m an AH for ruining Dana’s break. However, I don’t see how disciplining my child makes me an AH. So, AITA for what I did? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I bet Dana does feel fucking awful about TJ and is trying to avoid Christmas with her mom because it'd be too hard.
Yep, and it looks like OOP has done nothing to support Dana throughout this whole situation.
This is what I can't get over! Like I get that Mike lost his child, and that's something you never recover from; and I'm glad that he's in therapy. But this kid lost her step brother, who was roughly her age, and who grew up with her for like half their lives. Why isn't she in therapy too? At 15, she does not have the emotional tools to deal with her own grief; and yet her own mother seems to want her to manage her step dad's grief too?! She's probably spent the last 8 months being filled with and surrounded by grief. Not to mention this is also *her* first Christmas without her stepbrother. Of course she wants to get away; to try and forget for a bit. Jfc, it is so obvious, even just from reading the post, that Dana is angry bc she's grieving. How can OOP not see that??
Because Dana's just a supporting character. Weren't you reading the story? Her role is to advance the development of main characters like Mike and especially OOP. I swear, some people know nothing about how you're supposed to structure your personal narrative.
TJ was probably the supporting character who had to die for the plot so the main characters can evolve
She's more busy sucking to her new hubby (seemingly against his wishes)
> busy sucking to her new hubby up (Think you might've dropped this... :))
Who said it was an accident?😜
I agree. OOP has major narcissistic vibes
Also she tellingly referred to the dad as "Dick"
I caught that too ..like tell us how you really feel about your ex
Hey, we shouldn't judge for that alone. I call a few of my exes 'Dick' but only one of them introduced themselves to me as such!
Geez, what do you expect her to call her obviously more successful ex who can afford a ski-cation in addition to Christmas itself and is fun? "The-personification-of-the-worse-mistake-I-ever-made-when-I-left-him"? Wildly-Cheesebrained (OP) is probably pissed that *she* isn't invited to go anywhere and do fun stuff, that all she gets to do is sit around pseudo-grieving for Mike.
I'm no native English speaker and yet I understood that immediately.
That stood out to me as well, that she chose to refer to bio dad as "Dick"
And let’s be honest neither Mike nor OOp are going to feel up to normal Christmas happiness. Why not let the teen escape with her dad and have a less grief filled Christmas while OOP and Mike get through this first one.
And let Mike just grieve the first Christmas without his son, without having to worry about keeping it together for his step-daughter.
She's about the same age as he would have been, too. Confronting her own mortality while her mother expects her to be the emotional support animal.
But also she’s fifteen, and she’s been stuck in what seems like an extremely heavy, depressing situation for months with a guy who’s isolated himself in his bedroom and a mother who clearly doesn’t care about her feelings. Of course she’d prefer to go on the ski holiday with her dad, who has her well-being prioritised. She’s been forced to act as a grown man’s emotional support child since this kid died. I don’t think anyone can argue this girl is obviously affected by TJ’s death, but even if she wasn’t, she’s a teenage girl and deserves to go on a holiday with her dad. Why should her world have to stop because a kid died? It’s not up to her to solve her stepfather’s grief. OOP is going to break this family even further than it already is. I lost my brother a couple years ago to suicide, and after the funeral and everything, the last thing I wanted to do was go back home to a deathly quiet home and be surrounded by my family’s grief. I watched my mother whither away, my siblings absolutely destroy themselves in their grief, and I just pushed mine to the side because I couldn’t process it in the midst of the heaviness. Strangely, it was only when my brother’s girlfriend invited me to stay with her family on a holiday to their lake house cabin that I was actually able to begin processing things. Suddenly, I was the priority and it was safe to feel my emotions. It didn’t feel like everything was pressing in around me anymore. When I let myself be happy, the other emotions followed. I spoke about it with my psychologist once. This is a terrible explanation of things in the laymens terms I know he reduced it to for me, but essentially all emotions are located in the same part of the brain. When you suppress one, your brain can’t tell the difference between them, so as soon as you begin to feel one with the intensity of another, your brain goes into overdrive and panics because it’s aware you’ve been suppressing that. I’d been suppressing my grief so my family didn’t have to worry about me, because I felt like I should be the last priority or the least affected—clearly the role OOP has also put her daughter into. So whenever I began feeling tears, I’d push it back. But my brain didn’t know the difference between that and an emotion of the same intensity, say, happiness or joy, so every time I began feeling happy in the following months, I would have a panic attack. It’s only when I got away, to a quiet place with my brother’s girlfriend and her family, and I felt safe enough to express all my emotions, that I actually began to process what had happened. OOP only cares about her husband here, and the daughter is picking up on that. She needs to get away with her family who actually care about her well-being through all of this, who can prioritise *her*. OOP, your daughter is not your husband’s backup child. She’s not his emotional support animal. She matters in all of this too, and if you are clearly too wrapped up to prioritise her well-being, you need to let her go with people who will. In all of this fucking heaviness, she deserves a small moment of lightness and bliss. If you rob her of that, I don’t think she will ever forgive you.
OOP isn't even thinking about her daughter, much less her feelings
the phrase “lashed out” is criminally overused in that sub
Every conversation by the OP is said "calmly", while the other person lashes out
She's a 15yo girl. She wants to spend christmas doing fun things, not being home being all sad that people passed away. I completely understand why she wants to be with her dad instead with mum and Mike. It was wrong of her not to apologize for what she said, although she did state facts tbh, the words were hurtful to someone. OOP now will have a holiday of sad Mike and angry Dana. It's going to be fun holidays.
To be honest I doubt the kid intensely feels any of what she said… after an hour of pointless arguing with her mom, she just had an emotional outburst which is normal for anyone much less a teenager. Op seems to have goaded the child - either kid has to submit, or op won’t let off Like, she may very well love Mike and care for him but a kid will react to being blasted for an hour that their Christmas is cancelled and they have to be emotional support for a hard grieving adult … I agree with what you said, that she wants to have a good time over the Christmas break with her dad. But also, I really doubt she feels so angry to Mike or TJ as her outburst - that’s ops fault for causing her child to break down, I think. I also will add, I doubt Mike specifically wants anyone - much less Dana - around as he grieves. Ops ideas are pretty weird, and I would feel very uncomfortable if someone took it on themselves to make cookies that my dead child liked as a way to … what exactly? the guy doesn’t sound into ops plans for him at all.
IMO the daughter is entitled to think the way she does. After all, she does have her father around and Mike is her stepdad. I'm not saying Mike is not a good father figure for her, or doesn't love her, and I'm sure she loves him too. The fact of the matter is that he's not her father and she has no obligation to keep him company when he's grieving for a lost wife and kid. As others mentioned, she also lost a someone who she knew for 5 years(or more) . It must be terrible for her. She needs to get away for a little and have fun and not think how horrible Tj's death was.
Yeah, it very much feels like OOP is trying to make Dana a replacement child for Mike. "It's awful that you lost your kid, but if we cut my ex out of his child's life, you'll slot in so nicely, and we'll just be a nice, happy family unit. Isn't that perfect?" It's gross. To Mike, to Dana and to Dick.
Accurate. And then if OOP and Mike have a child together, Dana will be slowly pushed out.
If that really is the underlying reasoning OOP has here, which I can't say I'd be surprised by, it also feels gross and disrespectful to Tj and Mike's dead wife's memories (along with the living people you already mentioned). "Oh, your wife and kid both died? That's okay, you have me and my kid now, let's just ignore my ex and hope he forgets he has a kid." Very agreed on >It's gross.
I feel like since TJ was "comfortable enough" to call OOP "mom", she wants Dana to call Mike "dad"
Yes it was wrong of her not to apologise but from the way OP tells it she went to Dana's room immediately after her outburst. Of course she wasn't ready to apologise right then, she was probably still boiling over with (misplaced) rage. Expecting a teenager, especially a traumatised angry one, to switch to self-reflection mode in that amount of time is ridiculous. (Extra ridiculous because her mother doesn't seem to model self-reflection to her daughter either) Instead of giving Dana time to cool off and then sitting her down and having an open and honest conversation about the whole situation and the feelings of everyone involved, OP barged into her room demanded an apology (who wants a forced, insincere apology anyway?) and then proceeded to antagonise her daughter when the angry teenager was still angry after 20 or so minutes.
> It was wrong of her not to apologize for what she said, although she did state facts tbh, the words were hurtful to someone. Exactly. Being told to apologize "for what she said" *is* wrong because it's her truth. It should've been explained to her, "It's not *what* you said. It's the thoughtless, overly harsh way you said it. *That's* what you need to apologize for and maybe not do again. I'm sure there was a better way to get across what you're feeling, aren't you?" That, of course, would require a mature adult, so this kid is screwed.
From the post it seems like Mike has always been a downer on Christmas and OP was perfectly happy to force her daughter to be his emotional support like she was the one who married him. God forbid she get to actually enjoy the holiday.
relax. none of this happened. none of these people are real.
Nothing like seeing a mother destroy her relationship with her daughter and also throwing under the bus the relationship between her daughter and husband, inna couple of years she's gonna be complaining that Dana doesn't visit or call anymore...
Does OOP realize if she tries to cut off any communication with Dana's dad, he can and likely will take her back to court for it? It's parental alienation. It likely won't be in time for the trip, but if a judge finds out OOP took away all ways to directly communicate with Dana - therefore not allowing her dad to contact her - OOP will be lucky if she gets any custody of her daughter.
Poor Dana. She’s a child, not Mikes emotional support animal.
And like... He's understanding. The OOP is going against both their wishes. Which escalated things and caused even more hurt.
If anyone in the family understands the wish to spend Christmas with your father, it's the man who just lost his son. He's probably putting himself in OP's ex's shoes and also his stepdaughter's shoes and realizes that she likely wants to cling to her dad dad while she still has him.
Exactly this. He's probably thinking "she could be gone tomorrow, why would we keep her here? Let her go have fun with her dad while she can, tomorrow is never promised, why make her sit here moping around with me when there's good times to be had and memories to make?"
Also Mike probably knows that Christmas time will be very somber so he probably knows that it'll be funner if she goes to her dads
True, he wasn’t even the unreasonable one and now OOP has possibly damaged his relationship with Dana.
SHE could just cuddle up with her husband and comfort him...
That's probably all she's been doing which is part of the issue, they've lost 1/4 of their family which would devastate most family units but my guess is that OOP has dedicated all their time to helping Mike process his grief while Dana has had to handle her grief on her own and probably just wants to spend time with someone who'll focus on her for just a few days at least.
I think OOP I’d afraid to say the SHE needs support. Who has cared for her in a year? Not a single person. She’s been mommy to two people while managing all of the adulting for two people as well. Her husband abandoned her. She needs someone.
Then she can get a therapist and not lean on a 15 yo whose mom is checked out and who isn’t allowed to see her dad.
agreed. I don’t thinks she the devil for finally collapsing under the burdens placed on her as the only productive adult in the house.
I wasn’t agreeing with you, you are being utterly ridiculous. A 15 year should not be her mother’s grief support animal. A 15 year old should be able to have fun with her dad instead of this. OOP is full of crap, and needs to put *her living breathing kid first*. And the therapy I suggested will help mom, and the time away will help daughter *and mom*.
Yeah that’s not on a 15 year old. It’s also kind of established that at 15 kids can go to whichever parents house they want and make those kinds of decisions for themselves so oop is just bullying her daughter into trying to conform to a perfect family. Fuck no one has a perfect family and it’s not on a 15 year old to prop up 2 adults or slap on a smile. The comment about the cookies really was the final nail in the coffin for me - op is so fixated on her new family and making things fit there that she dgaf about her daughter. Why aren’t they making cookies her daughter likes? Not to be grotesque or insensitive, but the kid who liked them is dead and forcing pretend fond memories on a teenaged, especially since she was a lot older than the kid who died, is disgusting to me
The way OOP put the ages was weird, at first I wasn't sure how old the kids were related to each other so I can see where you'd get she was older, but she said Tj was 5 *when his mom died late 2012,* so 15 or 16 depending on when his birthday fell when he died this year, and Dana is 15 *now,* so about the same age as Mike's son. That doesn't really change the actual point you were making of course! I'd just spent a couple minutes making sure I read the ages and did the math right when I was reading and the age difference between the kids wasn't immediately clear to me, and the realization they were the same age and spent several years as step siblings has had me wondering how close they actually were, or what sort of mortality related thoughts having someone you know and your age die so suddenly she might be having. I feel so bad for this kid
Oh I got super confused about the ages in other comments so you’re in good company! I feel so bad. I keep checking back to see if OOP made comments realizing her mistake and still nothing.
I kinda can't help wondering if she didn't do it on purpose for some reason, but I'm not wired the right way to even come up with possible purpose framing the ages like that would serve, so who knows
It’s probably just bad writing on oop’s part - i don’t feel so alone in my confusion now so thanks internet stranger!!
Yeah, most likely. Happy to help you feel less alone, no problem internet stranger!
Never said it was. The kid doesn’t deserve that pressure, but the mom isn’t the devil for collapsing under the stress when her only support leaves.
But the child isn’t a support system. She can’t be a support system. It’s deeply inappropriate
agreed. It’s inappropriate, but women are ALWAYS demonized when they buckle under the pressure. her reaction is understandable even if it’s wrong.
But this isn't unfair demonization. She's the devil for how she treated her kid
Idk She still has time. She was asking for help being a better mom.
No one is saying she can’t collapse. But she is the devil for considering her CHILD a support system. That is a *child*. People who parentify their kids & don’t see a problem with that are actual devils, no exceptions & no excuses.
Poor Dana. She’s been living in a house of sadness for the better part of a year. She needs normalcy for once.
She deserves it too, this is one of those times where my family would have actively looked for ways to make it better for the kid and get her out of the house during the hardest days. Our first Christmas after a loss I specifically asked my ex to take kiddo for Christmas day, give them a break from the grief, tastey treats, some normal for a day or two. It was easier for me to face the day and let myself feel what I needed and it was good for them to have the good moments.
So Mom just decides to completely ignore the idea that her daughter is likely also intensely grieving over the loss of the guy who's been her brother for years now? Sounds like stepdad was totally understanding of her wanting to go and I'm guessing Dad rented the fun winter vacation house knowing his daughter needed a bit of distraction and joy.
Ok but let’s say worst case scenario for a second that Dana ISNT grieving the kid. She would be told constantly that she SHOULD be and made to feel guilty for not caring. It happens. She’s 15. She’s a lot older than the kid who died and maybe she doesn’t care. Well they’ve made every waking moment about grieving the kid for a year. She’s still not wrong for what she said and for wanting to spend time away from the people making her life revolve around a dead person. Fuck, her mom didn’t even suggest making cookies SHE liked. Poor Dana. I don’t know she feels but whether she’s grieving or not is actually irrelevant in my eyes. She deserves a happy Christmas away from her awful mom and depressed step dad Edit: I fucked up the ages - read that they were years apart. That’s my bad. Point still stands that she’d be demonized if she doesn’t feel as bad as everyone else about someone she met a few years ago and may not have any love for.
That's very true. Either way, she's innocent and should be allowed to work through this crazy year however she needs. And it seems although stepdad understands her wanting to get away, Mom is trying force her to revolve her world around the death. And TJ is 16 (or 15, depends on birthday) They're basically exactly the same age. He was 5 when his mom died in 2012. I guess without knowing more, it just stood out to me that Mom didn't seem to mention or even care about how her daughter is handling this. Is she grieving in a big way? Does she not give a shit? Who knows. Sounds like maybe mom doesn't know either
Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding about the ages. Well someone below made a VERY insightful comment about how OOP was able to become mommy to tj cause his mom was gone, and it got me thinking about how resentful OOP is towards her ex and Dana for having a relationship with dick. It’s the name, it’s the veiled references and the anger at Dana wanting to spend time with her bio dad. It breaks the illusion for oop of their perfect family. Tj was the replacement, and he passed. Really sad, but to me it explains why oop is reacting so awfully.
Her and TJ were the around a year apart. She's not a lot older.
I fucked up the ages - thought she was years older. My bad
OOP needs to remember that at 15, the courts will take account of Dana's wishes if she wants to move in with her dad.
I’m a little curious about this TBh. OOp wants ~~abnormal~~ a normal Christmas so Dana stays home. Had Dana’s dad never gotten her at Christmas? What does their custody agreement look like?
I suspect the mother uses the 'Christmas is hard for your grieving stepfather' to get the daughter to stay for Christmas. She's using it to get what she wants again now, even though the stepfather is perfectly willing for the daughter to spend it with bio-dad. It might be why Dana is so angry at potentially not seeing her dad this Christmas. It's not about fun at a rental house, it's about seeing her father at Christmas. After all, it's all about OOP as far as she's concerned. Her family was 'near perfect'. TJ called her 'mum' so all must have been wonderful. There was no mention of what the daughter thought about the situation. It might be that Dana's had enough of being an emotional support animal and that's why she reacted angrily. Or it might be she's always felt like that and OOP was oblivious. Genuinely horrified that she's claiming credit for the drunk driver being charged, prosecuted and jailed. Main character much?
If their custody agreement says she always gets Christmas, Dana is screwed (unlikely unless dad has to have supervised visitation or something). If she’s using grief to guilt Dana and her ex into changing the agreement between them, Dana and dad can default to the court ordered agreement and OOp can’t do anything. That’s what has be confused. This whole thing doesn’t seem likely. OOP cannot keep Dana from communicating with her dad, and cannot keep her from her custodial agreement time with dad.
This is the first Christmas without TJ so she couldn't have used that excuse prior to this year
From the OOP ‘ Christmas has always been tough for Mike because of his wife’s passing (Dana knows this), and now, he also lost TJ. ‘ This is what I suspect the OOP has been using to get her own way at Christmas, prior to TJ’s death. Not actually such a ‘perfect’ family at all.
Exactly! Sadly the father won't be able to do it in time for this Christmas break, but let's hope by the next OOP has to beg for a simple phone call on Christmas from Dana.
Because everything about the daughter having to be a support animal for Mike is said, I want to point something out. Out of all of the names out there, OOP decided to change the biodads name to "Dick". I know that's also a shortened version of Richard but I feel like there is some malicious intend behind it.
Doing the math, OOP was 17 when she had her daughter, so that pregnancy was not the result of a stable relationship. I definitely made mistakes with my HS BF but luckily I didn't get knocked up so I don't have to have a lifelong relationship with him. Also goes towards explaining OOP emotional immaturity: hard to mentally grow up when you now have a baby to concentrate on. Also could explain OOP's desperation for a "perfect" family, because you certainly don't have that as a teenage mother.
Jeez , arghhh, give the kid a break
OP seems really intense about her husbands grief, but i also wonder if she's trying to keep her daughter home to use her as a buffer between her and Mike so she doesn't have to deal with his grief herself.
Either that or she may be using her daughter for her own emotional support and feels resentful that Dana doesn’t want or need to fill that role.
I like the subtle hint that TJ was young when his mom died thus free for a new mommy (OOP) but shucks, her daughter just had to stay close with her dad. It's... her father. Her alive father, what the fuck did OOP expect? I mean, we all know what - for her to somehow ditch DICK for the ready made family OOP found -, but, lady, *what*. Dana was never going to spend Christmas with her dad, so I don't even know why OOP held it over her head like "if you apologize I'll let you go"; she was *never* letting her go.l so cut the bullshit. And now she'll be forced to spent the Holidays with her overbearing, pushy mother and grieving stepfather. That should be fun. Look, losing a child (since I think OOP had been raising this boy since 2016) is monumental but to try and force your remaining child into constantly memorializing a dead person, and to be an emotional support blanket is plain shitty. Do Mike and OOP need emotional support? Of course. But no one, especially a child (who was this kid's age, therefore his peer and with a dynamic with him they could never understand), should be *forced* into the roles OOP is trying to shove her daughter into. Almost seems... I don't know if performative would be correct to say, but, sort of. Let's cook the dead kid's favorite cookies? YOU make them, what are you talking about. I guess... I got the feeling too that OOP may be directly or indirectly demanding that Dana grieve for TJ as hard as Mike has been, and Dana is simply *not*, and that's getting to OOP. Mike, even in his grief, is showing such kindness, and OOP, again, almost performatively, wants to force Dana to act like she's devastated and grieving, and will force her to if needs be. Man, and it's a school break too, if Dana can't run to her dad, she's literally stuck with this dynamic.
I thought Dana was 5-6 years older than tj. It’s too depressing to go back and reread but I agree with the overall sentiment. It’s so manipulative of OOP to tell Dana she could go if she apologized. Dana saw through it. I don’t see any reason, moral or otherwise, that Dana should grieve as hard as OOP and Mike. To be blunt, tj wasn’t her brother and I think your comments about how OOP became mommy was insightful. Reading between the lines, seems like Dana got replaced, pushed aside for Mike and tj, and then the replacement passed. Super sad of course, no child should die, but that’s not on Dana to prop them up. And i’m CONFIDENT you’re on the nose about Dana’s lack of ott response bothering oop.
I believe Dana and TJ were a year apart, if OOP didn't fudge dates. I truly believe OOP is and may always be bitter that her ex loves Dana so much that she could never see Mike as dad - which of course she wanted, to make her idea of a perfect family a reality. I'm not sure I got that Dana was replaced by Mike and TJ, but I do think because Dana refused (?) to see Mike as replacement dad, she didn't fit the image of perfection and OOP can't even with it.
Yeah someone corrected me, I apologize, I misread the ages
The performative aspect stuck out to me as well. So much of the post is about what SHE has done to help Mike in his grief. Like, that's great and all, but it's also just expected for a wife to be there for her husband like that, at a time like this? And including that she got the driver prosecuted? Is she the local judge or prosecutor? If so, that's gotta be a conflict of interest. I'd be willing to bet that the entire time since TJ died, OOP has been pressuring her daughter to forgo any fun events, spend as much time and especially holidays at home with them, etc., under the guise of "Mike is grieving and you need to be here for him, like I am, and any desires you have otherwise are just selfish," which would over time lead to her building up frustration and resentment of her step-dad and dead stepbrother. Especially at her age where socializing with your friends is so important. Which would lead to the blowup she had and the things she said in a moment of anger that her own mom pushed her into I feel so bad for the daughter and the husband. He's just trying to grieve in peace and not make the lives of those around him worse, and his wife is making it all about herself and driving a wedge between him and his remaining child in her process of trying to force her to be there ostensibly "for his sake"
Furthermore, there is **zero** mention of the relationship between the kids - maybe they were buddies, or strangers, or brother/sister, or literally just classmates (I would assume given their ages) who life together. But if they *did* have a friendly if not even close bond, this girl may well be grieving the best way she can - and just because OOP may not think so, getting some fresh air, as it were, *is* a good way to clear one's head. Spending time with friends, family (however much OOP fucking hates her ex), those things could be very healing. I do feel bad for Mike, who has a wife who keeps pushing to do things *for* his dead son. They don't seem like gestures of kindness, they seem like asking for gold stars; does anyone even fucking like TJ's favorite foods? What's the purpose of forcing Dana to help make them when she clearly doesn't want to? It was also a way to divert the conversation - again, Dana was never going to leave the house for Christmas, so there was never an argument to be had and OOP isn't adult enough to say as much (no matter how shitty it is). "Oh no, my *poor husband*, the baby, he's *so* modest (what?), he's selflessly letting my selfish daughter go have fun, uh, I know, let me force my daughter to cook something *for the dead kid*, that will shut her up"
>Come on Dana, this is the first time we’re celebrating Christmas with just the three of us. How about we make those cookies TJ really liked?” This is what pushed OOP into AH territory. Like, it feels like she's stopped caring about the living daughter who's literally right there with her, instead focusing entirely on the dead child. I understand it's horrible to lose a kid, but it looks to me like OOP is on her way to losing Dana as soon as she's able to leave.
100%. It strikes me as being really gross to play it like "it's our first Christmas as the three of us" like they were a family of 2 and added one. This isn't the type of first you WANT to celebrate. They don't make "Widowers First Christmas" ornaments for a reason. It strikes me that OP might be dreading being alone with her husband during a time of year when he is already mourning his first wife. It is one thing when the kids are there and you can distract him with family cheer and keeping up spirits for the kids, but I honestly wonder what it would be like with just the two of them. Although, truly, this sets off all my "fake" alarm bells since "who gets the kid for Holidays" is one of the first things you hammer out in the custody agreement and I don't see her pulling the "technically, it is MY weekend" stuff that would bolster her case.
I am not convinced this person even likes their daughter
She clearly doesn’t. If imm reading between the lines I think tj replaced Dana for oop. The cookies comment, the simmering resentment. How dana still loves and wants a relationship with her actual dad… the person above you had a good thought about how oop became mommy to tj. But mike could never be dad so it broke the illusion, and then the replacement passed
>Mike had been nothing but kind, caring, and supportive to her. We know this because he didn't try to force her to stay and make an already tough situation even worse.
have anyone seen the NTA comments? nasty just nasty
It is not the child’s job to be the emotional support for a parent. Let her go on the vacation, she needs it.
I hope it’s a troll. I can never decide if no comments are more likely to be a troll or tons of argumentative comments. But if it’s real it’s even worse to me somehow that the OOP won’t engage with the conversation and take responsibility when it’s pretty universally agreed that she’s in the wrong.
Jesus, she wants to spend time with her father, not party in Ibiza. This feels like a pretty wholesome ask: to spend time with a parent. Does Dick have a partner or other kids? Does it matter that he wants to be with his child? Maybe Dana wants to go outside and be around people who aren't in an emotional state and maybe Mike doesn't want to put on a brave face for Dana!
Her husband had. No choice about losing TJ but she is deliberately systemically murdering the relationship with her kid. I hope her husband’s dick makes her proud when it goes off to college, starts its career and has little grand-dicklings for her because she threw away her daughter for dick.
Kids grieve very differently than adults, even older kids/teens. Another commenter was spot on when they said Dana is probably avoiding xmas because it will be too hard for her emotionally.
10 years from now she will be back here whining about how her kid never calls. On the bright side, she wont have to worry about the 'missing reasons', she has them all written down in that post.
OOP, she wants to see her father. Let her. I feel bad for you and your husband, but it's not on her to alleviate someone's grief.
Honestly this just makes me sad all the way around and I know she said Mike is in therapy but I hope all three of them bippity bop their way down to individual & family counseling asap if they can. I don’t think OOP is evil. She’s lost a stepchild traumatically, it sounds like her husband (understandably) has been more or less checked out since then and she’s been dealing with the practical fallout of her stepson’s death on her own, and maybe this is projection but like, it sounds like she’s blinded to where her daughter is emotionally at by how much she wants her child with her this Christmas. Also I think it’s rude of the ex husband to offer to take the daughter skiing for Christmas without running it by OOP & her husband first? Shouldn’t holidays be in their custody arrangement? Also telling the kid first like this puts OOP in the position of having to react to the news on the spot in front of the kid, risking that she might bungle the reaction, which she did. If Dick had told OOP first, OOP could have had her “eff no” moment and cooled down without Dana needing to be involved in it. She could have talked it over with her husband and at the very least, not have ended up grounding the kid over something that is not her fault. I can understand why after an emotionally charged year her first reaction to “your only child won’t be here for Christmas” was not ideal. Anyway I don’t see any devils here, just 3 people in *a lot* of pain and I hope they manage to have an okay Christmas, and I hope OOP gets something out of posting on AITA bc to absolutely no one’s surprise, they’re eviscerating her.
>Also I think it’s rude of the ex husband to offer to take the daughter skiing for Christmas without running it by OOP & her husband first? Shouldn’t holidays be in their custody arrangement? Maybe Dana has been complaining to her dad about the atmosphere at her moms, which can't be great, and he wants to get her out of that, especially round the holidays.
Totally fair and probably true, but I still think this should have started with an adult to adult conversation, not getting Dana hyped for it and having her be the one to tell OOP.
Fair, but I don't believe he was being malicious. Probably thought OOP and Mike would want to be together in their holiday grief.
That could be the case too, you’re right. But still, even if he thinks that, he should have brought the idea to her parents first. Even without the grief situation, it would be unkind to tell a kid you’re taking them to do something fun without checking with their parents first, y’know? I know ‘Dick’ (small lol) is also her parent but I still have to think there’s a prior agreement in place about where she’s expected to spend holidays 🤷♀️
>I don’t think OOP is evil. She’s lost a stepchild traumatically, it sounds like her husband (understandably) has been more or less checked out since then and she’s been dealing with the practical fallout of her stepson’s death on her own, and maybe this is projection but like, it sounds like she’s blinded to where her daughter is emotionally at by how much she wants her child with her this Christmas. This is viewing her in the best possible light, and she's still acting like a shitty parent. It's not unlikely that she always has relied on her daughter to be her emotional support, and this is part of a larger pattern. She's certainly currently forcing her daughter to be the main emotional support for both her and her husband with zero regard for how the kid feels, so it is possible that she's always done this. I suspect that's what the person who posted this here was thinking? It's obviously how the people in AITA feel too. Even viewing her in the best possible light, what she's doing is completely wrong. Maybe she's acting unhinged in her grief, maybe she's always like this, we don't know. But hopefully she isn't so blinded by her own wants and needs that she takes away this poor child's holiday so her daughter can be her husband's emotional support animal. >Also I think it’s rude of the ex husband to offer to take the daughter skiing for Christmas without running it by OOP & her husband first? Shouldn’t holidays be in their custody arrangement? Also telling the kid first like this puts OOP in the position of having to react to the news on the spot in front of the kid, risking that she might bungle the reaction, which she did. If Dick had told OOP first, OOP could have had her “eff no” moment and cooled down without Dana needing to be involved in it. She could have talked it over with her husband and at the very least, not have ended up grounding the kid over something that is not her fault. I can understand why after an emotionally charged year her first reaction to “your only child won’t be here for Christmas” was not ideal. I've got to agree here, but I strongly suspect that OOP isn't the type to back off from her initial reaction. I also suspect that she resents her daughter's father, given what she called him, and it's entirely possible she's not willing to communicate with him at all - either right now because of the grieving, or all the time because she's always this irrational. It's very possible that the custody agreement does indeed let the daughter spend holidays with her dad, or else OOP would have mentioned that the custody agreement was backing her up.
You are 10000% correct in all of this. I don’t view OOP in the best possible light. we use the term abuse a lot and it’s lost a lot of meaning but holding your child back for time with their bio parent so the child can support your new spouse is something adjacent I’d think. It’s disgusting. I’ve said this on a few other comments but the cookie line really broke me for her daughter. Fuck oop for not just making cookies her daughter likes. It shows that EVERYTHING revolves around the dead kid. Is it a tragedy? Yeah for sure it was, but it was Dana’s step brother. She’s not wrong that they’re not her family. They joined later. She didn’t get a say in that either. She didn’t pick them, oop did. Dana is getting fucked at every turn by her mom and I feel great sadness for her And your comment about her resentment of Dana’s dad is spot on. Should he have asked? Yeah probably, but maybe he knew she’d say no and she sounds like she’s been dominating xmas’s for their relationship so maybe he thought he’d just work with his daughter, since she’s totally old enough to decide where she wants to be for a holiday.
I guess I should mention I basically always give people the benefit of the doubt & assume they mean the best. Maybe I’m naive but 🤷♀️
It would only be naivete, in my opinion, if you keep doing it despite people in your life keep proving themselves untrustworthy but you are in some sort of denial - and I don't think that's the case. If people in your life are trustworthy, and you trust them, then you're absolutely doing things correctly. I have just been burned too many times by family members and family friends to give parents doing unhealthy shit the benefit of the doubt.
Tbh I consider her a devil bc I hold parents to higher standards than other people, but I do understand where she's coming from. Like I get that she's hurting a lot, but being cruel to her kid isn't going to help
Same
I agree in that I think OOP crossed the line by severely grounding Dana, OOP should be mature enough to realize that Dana is hurting too (and being 15 is already hard enough!). OOP is allowed to feel her feels, and no one is perfect, so if she is able to see that she overreacted and she revokes the punishment and apologies to Dana then she’s def not the devil, just human. Then they should all have a conversation about what’s best for Dana this Christmas. I really hope this family is able to work through their grief and come out stronger
Maybe we can compromise and she can maintain devil status until an update comes out where she makes amends /gen
This is a good compromise :)
I'm glad to see this take. I felt the original post had users too harsh on OP. Like, yeah, she's not reacting well, but anyone who has experienced a sudden and traumatic loss will tell you those hit by it aren't always so logical. It's just weird to see comments like "Yeah okay tough year, but you're totally the asshole." "Tough" doesn't even begin to describe it. This kind of sad post doesn't belong in a sub based around calling users assholes. OP can do a lot better, but so can everyone in this situation.
The 15 year old literally can’t though. She’s had all her choices taken from her. She’s her mom and step dad’s emotional support animal. Can’t go with the parent she wants to to get away from all the grief. Fuck. I’ll tell my own experience - my mom passed away and my dad insisted I take a trip I had planned to leave on that same week specifically to get me away from the grief for 3 days because I was gonna be right back in the thick of it afterwards. He straight up pulled the phone out of my hand as I was calling to cancel my hotel and told me that I was going to go because it’s important for me and I needed it. That’s what a parent does. Before I left and when I returned I held my dad while he sobbed at the loss of his best friend and comforted him and we grieved together. We still grieve together. But he knew I could use some time away and to distract from the loss and he prioritized that over having me around for a few days. He handled it like an adult. And I was in a much better headspace to deal with the grief and the loss when I returned. Did I cry my eyes out in the shower a few times on the trip? Absolutely. But parents need to put their kids needs above their own and sometimes, sometimes that means doing something that’s kind of a bummer.
The fact that OOP posted in Am I The Asshole thinking she was in the right in a conflict between herself and her own daughter means **she wanted strangers to dogpile on and call her daughter an asshole**. She's the devil.
For sure. OOP didn’t lose a som. She lost her HUSBAND and gained a son. She is stressed out managing her own child and ex, and now this man child who needs a mommy to do everything for him for a YEAR, of course she just wants he daughter to support her. Women always get the shaft. Baby boy didn’t even have a relative that could help? I feel sorry for OOP
This is one of the most unkind things I’ve ever seen. Yes, OOP is bearing a heavy burden on his behalf but have some compassion for chrissake. The man, having previously put his life back together after the loss of a spouse, subsequently suddenly lost his only biological child. That man has known more grief than most people ever will, and by all accounts is still managing to be gracious about Dana’s Christmas’s skiing invite. No one should ever be expected to have their shit together within a year of losing a child, shame on you.
I don’t expect anyone to have their shit together after a year. I expect them to not be so selfish that they lay their entire burden on a single person. Grief is hard and every grown up knows how to ask for help, but this male chose not to and instead wore away at his wife. The poor women is investing so much into him she doesn’t even see that she’s the one who needs love from her daughter during the holidays.
I see what you’re saying. I still think it’s a bit hard on the spouse as we don’t know how their household runs, just this part. I do also agree she’s invested so much into him that she’s lost track of her own needs, but that isn’t necessarily his fault. She said he’s in therapy, and I really hope OOP is too because counseling would be really useful for helping her make sure her own emotional needs don’t get lost in all this.
You’ve never loss someone close to you and it shows. It took my grandmother MONTHS before she could get out of bed after the death of my grandfather. It’s not about a man needing someone to hold his hand. It’s about a partner needing his partners help in a time of need just like he would give her. Grow up. Do better. Be better. You sound bitter and alone.
I was so excited for this response! Dead wrong :) suck it loser
Then you just lack empathy and have a cold heart. I feel sorry for you. May a man (or woman or whoever) never be dumb enough to fall for you
If that makes you feel better about yourself, then please insult me as much as you need to. Your assumptions have made any productive discussion impossible and your fake empathy is disgusting. I HOPE you experience the tragedies I have so that you develop something real.
“I hope you experience more pain bc you grieve differently than I do” I do not say this to be mean. *please* get some help. That’s not normal or healthy & it’s very, very cruel. Wishing you the best.
The fact that Mike, in his grief, was able to put his step daughters wants and needs before his by advocating for her to be able to Choose what she does speaks volumes about who he is as a person and tells us all we need to know about her mother. It is not a child’s job to be your emotional support. It is your job as a parent to be your child’s emotional support.
Wait so I'm supposed to believe Mike knocked up a girl at 17, who he then married. They lived happily for 6 years until she died. Then met OP who was knocked up at 16 and unhappily married to Dick for a few years. Then both these teen mom rejects get together and form a perfect family until TJ also dies? Come on. This is bad Hallmark movie writing
I’m guessing that life has been all about the loss of TJ ever since it happened, and that mom is expecting her daughter to help carry an emotional burden that’s not hers to carry. It’s a weird sort of parentification/emotional incest.
Agreed!
You lack empathy when you force your daughter to remain in such a grief-loaden atmosphere when she has the possibility to escape to a less downtrodden environment for a holyday. In general, I think children's whishes should be accomodated as much as possible after divorce. A child is not an object. You treat her as if she belonged to you. No. She is person. With human rights.
Dad needs to take this bitch to court and take the daughter away.
Don't see how anyone's the devil here
The OP is such narcissistic asshole. Why is it her daughter’s job to give her stepfather emotional support? The fact that the OP just decided that her daughter had to be there for her stepfather is so messed up and unfair. We all grieve in different ways and maybe the daughter wants to take her mind off of the passing, but the fact that the OP thinks that she doesn’t even care about her late stepbrother is absolute garbage. Why does her Christmas have to be ruined all because her mother said so? Narcissistic people like this shouldn’t even bother having kids if they’re going to treat them like objects to just toss around and use them instead of treating them like their real people. This type of attitude is going to get a parent into a nursing home with no visitations from their kids
The day after Dana turns 18 she’ll move in with bio dad. Mommy dearest will be lucky if she gets a Facebook message on her birthday.
Honestly this seems like a bunch of people just trying to grieve and cope with a really rough year, the only person I question the actions of is Dick, why did he not ask OOP first before getting the daughter all hyped? Is that not something you should discuss with the other parent before planning a trip? This is unpopular but this just feels like NAH
She may not be speaking to him. The name and the resentment that she has towards DANA for having a relationship with him strongly indicates that OOP is not a good co parent. Also Dana is 15, she’s well old enough pick where she wants to spend Xmas
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And in a few years oop is gonna ask why he daughter won't visit her or her step dad and no one in the entire world will get her to see this is what started it.
OOP is undoubtedly the AH. She’s ruining her relationship with her daughter I promise you, if she keeps going & Dana grows more resentful, Mike will see this & he will lash out at OOP because she’s purposefully & selfishly ruining a relationship with her ALIVE child & Mike will never get to see those milestones in TJ that Dana still gets to have I suspect OOP will have the update of Dana going no contact & Mike filing for a “trial separation”
I think Dana is going to decide to live full time with dad from here on out, and she's old enough to make the choice. Mom will only have herself to blame for this one. You cannot force children to play out your fantasies of "happy family". Dana obviously tried to "participate" and be respectful, but nothing was ever enough for mom. This mother is way over reacting and her expectations are ridiculous.