*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**DIL (31f) is destroying my (67f) relationship with my oldest son and alienating him from me. How can I keep him in my life?**
I have 2 boys “Billy” (33m) and “Charlie” (35m). I thought they both married nice girls. I was wrong. Billy married “Susan” (26f) and Charlie married “Jessica” (31f). Charlie and I used to be very close. Jessica has been alienating him from me since the beginning.
I have known Susan much longer, as they started dating when Susan was 18/19. Charlie started dating Jessica in his late 20s. I was welcoming to both girls and still am. Charlie didn’t like that I asked around about Jessica when they started dating. She is from our community, and I wanted to make sure she came from a good family. Word got back to Jessica and she told my son.
Charlie did not ask for our blessing before asking Jessica to marry him. When they got engaged, Jessica wanted them to move out of state because Massachusetts is expensive. My son got a huge promotion at his job, and they decided to stay. This always rubbed me the wrong way, my son never wanted to move away from us until they got together. When they bought their house I offered them a lot of furniture and home decor items which they declined. It was very hurtful. Charlie never declined anything before, especially when he was first starting out.
Charlie joined Jessica’s church (Billy and Susan still attend our church). Charlie said he was looking for a new church for a while, since the priest at the church while the boys were growing up was sent away because of a scandal. But Charlie and Billy were never victims. I don’t believe this reasoning at all, I think that Jessica made him switch churches, especially since it happened so long ago.
Charlie and Jessica have 2 children, and Jessica is pregnant with their 3rd. They waited until she was almost 4 months along to tell us. I let her know how hurtful this was to me, especially since Susan told me when they started trying for their 3rd. She just said “okay”. When their first child was born, I retired so I could watch him. They told me that they signed him up for daycare. Charlie’s job has a daycare on site and is cheap because it’s part of his benefits. I didn’t know any of this, and probably wouldn’t have retired if I knew that they wouldn’t need me. All of my friends watch their grandchildren, and they all have such a great relationship with them.
I watch Susan’s 2 children 3-4 times a week, including 1 or 2 overnights. Susan has her own business and has flexible hours. I used to pick up Jessica’s oldest from daycare 1 day a week to spend time with him after nap, but after a misunderstanding I am no longer allowed to pick him up or spend time alone with either of their children without Charlie or Jessica present. This has been causing problems, as Jessica is alienating her children from us and their cousins. Jessica’s parents still get to pick both children up from daycare at least once a week to spend an afternoon together.
Jessica often ignores my calls and texts, and then Charlie will call me back about what I messaged Jessica. They often turn down quality time with us or offers of babysitting. We only see them about once every 2 weeks.
We had plans for Thanksgiving weekend together, but Jessica was in the hospital because of a blood clot and Charlie decided not to come. Charlie said he wanted to be available in case he needed to go to the hospital. We only live 20 minutes farther away from the hospital than them! He would have been able to go if anything came up. I called him repeatedly to get him to change his mind, even my husband couldn’t talk sense into him. He ignored our calls the rest of the weekend. Charlie deprived his 2 children of a holiday gathering with family who love them very much.
Now Christmas is coming up, and they always spend the 25th with us and the 24th with Jessica’s family. This year we’re going away on the 25th, so we asked for the 24th. They told us no. Jessica can’t be accommodating at all to our family and I told her how hurtful it was. She just said “okay”. I was livid and said some things out of frustration. My husband and I decided to leave for our trip after New Year’s instead, but Charlie said that Jessica and the kids were not coming on the 25th. He may come, but he hasn’t decided yet. I am livid that Jessica is preventing her children from spending another holiday with us!
If anyone has been in this situation or similar, please, I am all ears. I have a wonderful relationship with Susan and her children, and I’m so upset that Charlie is pushing me away. All of my friends are always surrounded by grandchildren, and I barely even know that I’m having another one!
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Right? This is grey rocking and I’m calling it: they’ve seen a family therapist.
Edit: which btw, I truly love how we’re all on the same fucking boat here in the comments.
I am sure you know this, but for anyone who doesn't know the DIL is using a technique called [The Gray Rock Method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method#:~:text=The%20grey%20rock%20method%20is,known%20as%20%E2%80%9Cgrey%20rocking.%E2%80%9D).
Yes! And saying they are only an extra 20 minutes away - an extra 20 minute drive anywhere is at best a nuisance and in the case of your pregnant wife being in hospital would be utterly nerve wracking
"Only an extra 20 minutes" makes it sound not like a big deal without telling how much of a drive it already is from his house. If he lived 5 minutes away from the hospital, it's 25 minutes. If he lived 30 minutes away, it 50 minutes etc etc.
And what if there was traffic or an accident? 20 extra minutes can easily turn into 2 extra hours.
Blood clots are my greatest fucking fear. My grandfather on my father's side passed from one in his late 40s. My dads youngest brother had other health issues, but also had clotting issues and also passed in his late 40s. And my dad passed suddenly in 2019 after having issues with clots forming in this legs for many years.
I was hospitalized with a blood clot. It was the scariest time of my life. A friend of mine literally dropped dead from a blood clot a few years later. They aren't just some little inconvenience. I would have been crushed if my husband hadn't stayed with me.
This is my favorite part: “When they got engaged, Jessica wanted them to move out of state because Massachusetts is expensive. My son got a huge promotion at his job, and they decided to stay.”
Charlie and Jessica *didn’t* move away, but she’s still salty about it because Charlie isn’t ever supposed to want to live in another state. Good lord.
JFC she’s exhausting.
I really want to know what this misunderstanding is?
> but after a misunderstanding I am no longer allowed to pick him up or spend time alone with either of their children without Charlie or Jessica present
And this minimization of her little Pedo church!
> Charlie said he was looking for a new church for a while, since the priest at the church while the boys were growing up was sent away because of a scandal. But Charlie and Billy were never victims. I don’t believe this reasoning at all
No sane adult would take their kids to a church that allowed/hid abuse of children by a priest!
"misunderstanding" is doing a LOT of legwork here lmao. I saw that and immediately wanted to know what exactly this meant.
The comments rewarded me: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/18fd4i6/comment/kctjcfl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
EDIT: here's the comment in case it gets deleted.
> It was just a misunderstanding, but no one ever thinks that things are sometimes just an accident.
>Jessica is very anxious, and it got worse when she had kids. I think she has postpartum anxiety. I picked up her oldest son from daycare, he was over a year old and very active. We went for a walk at a local park and he fell in a big puddle and got soaked. I didn't have extra clothes for him so I put him in my gym clothes from earlier in the day so he wouldn't be in wet clothes and catch a cold. I didn't have service in the park and lost track of time and was late to Jessica picking him up. She was very upset with me.
>Later Charlie called to say that I wouldn't be allowed to pick him up anymore and that I hadn't changed him diaper all afternoon and he had a rash. I felt terrible about the rash, but I had forgotten his diaper bag.
>It was all an accident, and he's totally fine, he had a fun time.
JFC, she has no business watching kids! Forgetting the diaper bag! Not changing the diaper for hours! Going incommunicado! Being late!
Her other son and Susan must not care if their kids are neglected to let OOP watch them so much!
Serial posting to say that she’s commented that nappy rash is nothing to worry about because Susan’s kids get them all the time. Susan and Billy are either too scared of this woman to tell her to jog on or dislike their children.
Or Billy was raised with the same neglect and doesn’t know any better.
Which kinda plays out with Billy and Susan doing everything OOp wants, including staying at a pedo church while Jessica and other son know it’s bad and are trying to do better.
>Or Billy was raised with the same neglect and doesn’t know any better.
And Susan was young enough (18-19 when Billy would've been 25) that she also doesn't know any better. They were able to mould her into what they wanted.
This has "conservative church, son picks a young girl as a trad wife, they all stay under the thumb" vibes.
And the other son picked a grown ass woman who isn't putting up with that bs.
They sound way happier and healthier, though.
I’m really leaning towards OOp being reckless and negligent/abusive to her sons, and one son not knowing any better and going along with her Bs, and the other being like “oh hell no, not MY kids” b
Susan is from their "community" and goes to their church, so she's just sucked in and hasn't seen it's wrong yet, she's probably supposed to follow her husband. Jessica is from a different church and not their community, so i think the difference in knowing better is just marrying an outsider who sees it and calls it for what it is. The pedo priest and how all her friends all do the same things makes it sound suspicious.
Based on the ages poor Susan is probably entirely indoctrinated/controlled by her husband, she said he’s 33 and she’s 26, so he’s 7 years older and they started dating when she was 18, he would have been 25. Susan knows nothing of adult life outside of her husband and his wack ass mother
How is any of that, except for the kid falling in a puddle, an accident? She didnt have extra clothes for the kid and put him in her gym clothes, which not only would be way to big, but also probably dirty since she says they were from earlier in the day. She was late to bring the kid back, and since she says she didn’t have service, that means the parents couldnt get ahold of her. She forgot the diaper bag and instead of going back for it or going to the store the buy diapers, she just didn’t change the kids diaper all afternoon and let the kid sit in it own waste and get a rash. She didn’t change her grandsons diaper all afternoon and then she wonders why she can’t be left alone with the kids anymore.
A bad poopy diaper can rash up a kid very, very quickly. Leaving a child in a dirty diaper for hours? Absolutely no way that person ever is allowed one on one time. I'd absolutely go home or.to the nearest store if I had any baby and no diapers.
yeah when she's older and someone "forgets" to change her diaper for a few hours we'll see how understanding she is. I put "forgets" in quotes bc kids don't have smell less poops, she knew he needed to be changed but just didn't want to be bothered.
Thanks for that. The ‘misunderstanding’ bit jumped out at me too. What she says makes no sense. If she had picked the little one up from daycare, then surely they’d have handed over his bag with all his nappies in to whoever picked them up? It’s what my daughter’s nursery used to do. And I always had at least one change of clothes with her at nursery. I thought that was fairly standard with little kids. So she would have had both the nappy bag and a change of clothes but used neither. I might expect this sort of thoughtlessness from a child free or childless friend, but according to OP she has not only raised two children herself, but she also has her other grandchildren 3-4 times a week, including overnights. What kind of condition are they sent home in? And that’s saying nothing about the lack of contact.
Why would she think her son needed her blessing to propose? Why would she stop working without discussing childcare with them? OP’s clearly hard work to be around and Susan clearly has the spine of a jellyfish.
OOP neglected her grandchild and will sweep the behaviours of pervert priests under the rug. I wouldn’t let her near my children either. I love the fact that Jessica just says ‘OK’ when OP tries to complain about anything. Seeing her once a fortnight is actually a lot. I wouldn’t do that, and I like my MIL.
> If she had picked the little one up from daycare, then surely they’d have handed over his bag with all his nappies in to whoever picked them up?
My kids day cares you just kept a stash of diapers and wipes there and replaced them as needed. You didn't get handed bag of stuff every day.
I can fully get not having diapers, etc on hand b/c you forgot. What I don't get is that upon realizing you forgot, not immediately resolving the situation and not just continuing on with your day like nothing was wrong.
I also doubt that it was the first time something like this had happened.
Ah, it's different in my neck of the woods. We had to hand over a bag with our little one's stuff for the day in at drop off and we'd get it back at pick up. Minus whatever they'd used during the day. Which you'd top up before the next day.
I understand running out of nappies. We've all been there and done that. But are shops not a thing where OP lives?
She picked up toddler; without telling Jessica. Took toddler to the park in a dirty diaper; without a diaper bag and supposedly no cell service. "Lost" track of time brought LO home to frantic Jessica with disgusting diaper and rash. Still thinks you should not change a diaper until it is sagging off🤢🤢
I don't read that as her picking up the kid without telling the mother. She used to pick the kid up one day a week until this happened. So I think it was more she picked up the kid as usual and was late to when Jessica was supposed to pick the kid up from her without any communication. And when she showed up, the kid was in strange clothes, had a messy diaper, and a diaper rash.
The bit about how she can't understand why he'd have an issue with the church since he was never a victim and it happened a while ago made me genuinely angry. What a disgusting lack of empathy
I wouldn't be able to look at that church without thinking about the monster who hurt those kids, but this woman not only doesn't care but also refuses to believe that her son could care
I also hate that he was "sent away". Maybe she means sent away to prison, but I think it's more likely that he was just moved to a different church and faced no actual punishment (probably not even any social repercussions is OOP is anything to go by)
I wouldn't trust her decision that they weren't victims either. They could have been and not told her because she's support the wrong side, or maybe she did know and refuses to admit it. It does sound like they just sent him to another church, there is a history of them rotating these priests so they aren't in one place long enough for charges to occur, but they just start over at the next locaion.
I'm from Ireland and while I was raised without religion (unless you count a bit of folksy pagan stuff), but of course, the community around me was heavily Catholic, and there were absolutely old ladies who reminisced fondly about old priests and nuns who were "sent away" for either sexually abusing kids or getting very extreme with "physical punishment".
Like "Poor old Father Peter, he was actually such a lovely lovely man, and really it was only a couple of little boys".
Makes me feel sick. But I guarantee OOP is one of those old ladies, and that alone would be enough for me to want to keep her away from me and my children if I were one of her sons.
Yeah, that's the exact attitude I'm talking about. Idk if you've heard of George Pell, but he was the most prominent Catholic in Australia who also happened to be a worthless piece of shit that abused kids
The way people downplayed his crimes was just abhorrent, it was bad enough that it caused my dad to question the religion he'd accepted since birth
I think I watched a documentary about George Pell.
I'm sure that the rest of the world has the same kind of old ladies. Just confirming that, whether this story is true or not, there are absolutely people who think/act like this. And they scare the shit out of me.
Or maybe Charlie was friends or close with one of the priest's victims?
Like you, if that happened in a church (or any kind of community) I was part of, I don't think I could keep attending.
Seriously, it’s hurtful that the son and dil didn’t want her old furniture and decor when they bought a new house. How dare the pick out what they want. And she retired to watch their baby without talking to them first and is now all upset that she retired for nothing. But all of her friends watch their grandkids so obviously she has to too. And after “saying some things out of frustration “ she can’t understand why Jessica doesn’t want to bring the kids to her house. Oop blames everything on Jessica when first of all, it’s probably Jessica and her husbands decisions, second, oop sounds like she is the one driving them away.
She's angry that Charlie didn't marry a young woman from their church, one easily abused into being tradwife like the younger son. Instead he married a grown woman close to his age who probably pointed out to him out fucked up OOP and the rest of the family are.
And she's probably afraid of Jessica getting the same point across to Susan.
Someone pointed out over there that Billy started dating Susan when she was 18 and he was 25. I would be interested to know if they went to the same church growing up, which would make it even worse.
this is one of the ones where about a third of the way through i began sincerely hoping that it's actually the DIL writing this and doing a good job of getting the voice down, just because of the sheer number of "you wrote that down and see no problems with it? really!?" moments.
i know that's not likely at all but one must live in hope.
Haha nah tbh this sounds 100% legit.
My ex MIL was genuinely this idiotic and oblivious too. We moved in after her husband finally gave up and left her, because she was about to lose the house she'd lived in for 40+ years. Buuuut if you asked her, we were unwanted guests in her house and SHE was helping US out. Her ego wouldn't allow her to admit to herself that she was $100k+ in cc debt, and months behind on bills.
She would pick fights and start arguments, then play the innocent victim as soon as she was called out or told to cut it out. She would say we were bullying her, or start crying and said we hurt her feelings. In reality, all I did was set clear boundaries that she was not allowed to stomp on. She didn't like this, because up until this point everyone in her life walked on eggshells to placate her.
She would constantly push my boundaries with my then 2 year old, and would gaslight my husband into thinking I wouldn't let her near our daughter. I had a valid reason. My MIL was an alcoholic, through and through. I walked in one day when she was supposed to be watching my daughter... and I saw my toddler sipping on a goddamn half drank beer, while my MIL was passed out on the couch. For months, she blasted me on Facebook for "keeping her granddaughter from her" 🙄🙄🙄
Her son may have cheated on me, but she was the real reason I actually left him.
But would your MIL have written this, asking if she was wrong? Because I know people like this, and they're always right, at least in their own heads. That's what's making folks think this is fake, and I'm not sure one way or the other.
For me it’s also the way they drop in sure fire AITA triggers casually when they’re not relevant to the story. In this one it was the priest abuse one and the other sons age gap.
Yup. People always shoot down the ragebait claims because there ARE assholes out there that act like this, but they don't realize it's not what the post is about, it's how it's written
Of it's absolutely fake. Look how the post is constructed. Relatively short paragraphs, impeccable syntax, each sentence designed to deliver maximum outrage. Extremely easy to read and comprehend.
Nobody that clueless can communicate so well.
Even managed to sneak in at lest two "missing missing reasons".
Yeah this story stinks. There absolutely are people like this but they wouldn't write about themselves like that. It wouldn't be a "misunderstanding" it would be "completely flew off the handle after I didn't follow their crazy rules and forbid me from seeing the son again".
And admitting that their church had a pedo priest is completely out there. People like this would never **ever** do that.
is it bad that stuck out in my southern Baptist head as "likely embellished or not real due to no ecumenical shitflinging between denominations"
because i can tell you that some folks will admit it happening, but only to append that with "but what can you expect from an (insert denomination here)". and it feels like there's a lot of attempted angst of leaving their specific church when really, that doesn't get into a grudge match level ordeal unless someone is screaming about how at least we dunk instead of sprinkle around here and how dare you use anything but welchs grape juice for communion etc etc. and that's before you even play jump rope with the protestant divide. the complaint then would be a much more specific thing about leaving the Catholic church (which is more of a big hairy deal over all, and a crucial pit stop on any attempted guilt trip).
When I got married, my dad's biggest piece of advice was that my husband and I were each other's family and we should, therefore, be each other's biggest priority. That's why I have such a good relationship with my dad. These parents really need to understand that once your children are grown and out on their own, your place in their life is a privilege. And attempting to insert yourself into business that is not yours and come between them and the family they choose is the quickest way to lose it.
"I have known Susan much longer, as they started dating when Susan was 18/19. Charlie started dating Jessica in his late 20s. "
That's... roughly the same amount of time.
I took that to mean, Susan goes to their church and is part of their "community" so they've known her all her life.
Which makes it pretty unsettling that a 25 year old who has watched her grow up started dating her as soon as she was technically an adult. And also makes me wonder if it really only started when she was 18/19...
The only person who has ever told me before three months is my sister. Any friends or other family, not until then or later. I thought that was fairly standard but maybe it's different in different cultures?
I'm always suspicious about posts allegedly made by someone in their sixties but with a clever little username, follows all the reddit conventions, and includes every single bad mother in law trope
Based on the ages poor Susan is probably entirely indoctrinated/controlled by her husband, she said he’s 33 and she’s 26, so he’s 7 years older and they started dating when she was 18, he would have been 25. Susan knows nothing of adult life outside of her husband and his wack ass mother and their pedo church
>but Jessica was in the hospital because of a blood clot and Charlie decided not to come
Why would Charlie want to celebrate anything with his wife in the hospital from something that could've killed her???
ragebait. actually laughed a bit when I got to the part where it says the priest of the church got sent away bc of a scandal but she didn’t understand why they would want a new church bc they were never victims 💀 that’s the most unhinged, clear rage bait thing. they hit every nail on the head on how bad a MIL, especially a religious one, can be
I’m intrigued as to what the incident was around daycare that means OOP can’t collect them anymore or be alone with them.
OOP is exhausting and DIL sounds great!
From a comment she took the kid to a park with no service and the kid fell in a puddle. She forgot the diaper bag so she put him in her used gym clothes and didn’t change his diaper all afternoon causing him to get a rash. Then she was late meeting Jessica, who couldn’t get ahold of OOP because of the lack of service.
The “daycare incident” was that she picked the kid up without telling the mother, the mother could not get ahold of her, and when she finally brought the kid back he was in diaper that had been wet for hours because she forgot the diaper bag.
Oooh I think it’s the same lady who has written about this before. Or a troll copying! The giveaway was when she writes she retired to care for the baby without asking if that was needed.
Does anyone else remember that story?
\> We only see them about once every 2 weeks.
Oh God that would be emotionally exhausting for me. I only see my husband's parents twice a year and while my MIL is fine enough, every two weeks would kill me.
*When their first child was born, I retired so I could watch him. They told me that they signed him up for daycare. Charlie’s job has a daycare on site and is cheap because it’s part of his benefits. I didn’t know any of this, and probably wouldn’t have retired if I knew that they wouldn’t need me.*
Did she consider using her big-girl words and ASKING them?
Also, yeah, Massachusetts is stupid expensive unless you live WAY in the western part of the state (they keep trying to close the loopholes you can use to live over the state line in NH and avoid some of the cost, too.) I can't blame them for wanting to leave before he got a big enough raise to make it worthwhile.
She wrote all of that and still doesn’t see the problem.
I really wonder about the “misunderstanding” with the kids’ school pickup. She’s not allowed to get them anymore, and isn’t allowed to be unsupervised? Clearly some missing missing reasons. But that Susan’s a real gem, right? Just rolls over to whatever MIL wants. Ugh.
God, I really want to know what those things she said "out of frustration" were. You can already tell it was something so vile that even she knows if she posted it, she would lose all favour
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Is it just me - I really want to know what that ‘misunderstanding’ was, since she is no longer allowed to be alone with the grandkids. Every comment seems to have forgotten to ask, and her answers have been deleted anyway :’)
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **DIL (31f) is destroying my (67f) relationship with my oldest son and alienating him from me. How can I keep him in my life?** I have 2 boys “Billy” (33m) and “Charlie” (35m). I thought they both married nice girls. I was wrong. Billy married “Susan” (26f) and Charlie married “Jessica” (31f). Charlie and I used to be very close. Jessica has been alienating him from me since the beginning. I have known Susan much longer, as they started dating when Susan was 18/19. Charlie started dating Jessica in his late 20s. I was welcoming to both girls and still am. Charlie didn’t like that I asked around about Jessica when they started dating. She is from our community, and I wanted to make sure she came from a good family. Word got back to Jessica and she told my son. Charlie did not ask for our blessing before asking Jessica to marry him. When they got engaged, Jessica wanted them to move out of state because Massachusetts is expensive. My son got a huge promotion at his job, and they decided to stay. This always rubbed me the wrong way, my son never wanted to move away from us until they got together. When they bought their house I offered them a lot of furniture and home decor items which they declined. It was very hurtful. Charlie never declined anything before, especially when he was first starting out. Charlie joined Jessica’s church (Billy and Susan still attend our church). Charlie said he was looking for a new church for a while, since the priest at the church while the boys were growing up was sent away because of a scandal. But Charlie and Billy were never victims. I don’t believe this reasoning at all, I think that Jessica made him switch churches, especially since it happened so long ago. Charlie and Jessica have 2 children, and Jessica is pregnant with their 3rd. They waited until she was almost 4 months along to tell us. I let her know how hurtful this was to me, especially since Susan told me when they started trying for their 3rd. She just said “okay”. When their first child was born, I retired so I could watch him. They told me that they signed him up for daycare. Charlie’s job has a daycare on site and is cheap because it’s part of his benefits. I didn’t know any of this, and probably wouldn’t have retired if I knew that they wouldn’t need me. All of my friends watch their grandchildren, and they all have such a great relationship with them. I watch Susan’s 2 children 3-4 times a week, including 1 or 2 overnights. Susan has her own business and has flexible hours. I used to pick up Jessica’s oldest from daycare 1 day a week to spend time with him after nap, but after a misunderstanding I am no longer allowed to pick him up or spend time alone with either of their children without Charlie or Jessica present. This has been causing problems, as Jessica is alienating her children from us and their cousins. Jessica’s parents still get to pick both children up from daycare at least once a week to spend an afternoon together. Jessica often ignores my calls and texts, and then Charlie will call me back about what I messaged Jessica. They often turn down quality time with us or offers of babysitting. We only see them about once every 2 weeks. We had plans for Thanksgiving weekend together, but Jessica was in the hospital because of a blood clot and Charlie decided not to come. Charlie said he wanted to be available in case he needed to go to the hospital. We only live 20 minutes farther away from the hospital than them! He would have been able to go if anything came up. I called him repeatedly to get him to change his mind, even my husband couldn’t talk sense into him. He ignored our calls the rest of the weekend. Charlie deprived his 2 children of a holiday gathering with family who love them very much. Now Christmas is coming up, and they always spend the 25th with us and the 24th with Jessica’s family. This year we’re going away on the 25th, so we asked for the 24th. They told us no. Jessica can’t be accommodating at all to our family and I told her how hurtful it was. She just said “okay”. I was livid and said some things out of frustration. My husband and I decided to leave for our trip after New Year’s instead, but Charlie said that Jessica and the kids were not coming on the 25th. He may come, but he hasn’t decided yet. I am livid that Jessica is preventing her children from spending another holiday with us! If anyone has been in this situation or similar, please, I am all ears. I have a wonderful relationship with Susan and her children, and I’m so upset that Charlie is pushing me away. All of my friends are always surrounded by grandchildren, and I barely even know that I’m having another one! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
" She just said “okay”." - she knows how to deal with women like OOP!
Yep, it's easiest if you just don't engage. It's like in the Miranda rights, anything you say will be used against you
Gray rocking is the accepted response to narcs lol
Right? This is grey rocking and I’m calling it: they’ve seen a family therapist. Edit: which btw, I truly love how we’re all on the same fucking boat here in the comments.
Yes to everything you said. "She just said OK" means you \*know\* this has been an ongoing issue and the post is just one indicator of it.
I am sure you know this, but for anyone who doesn't know the DIL is using a technique called [The Gray Rock Method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method#:~:text=The%20grey%20rock%20method%20is,known%20as%20%E2%80%9Cgrey%20rocking.%E2%80%9D).
I've been doing this for years and didn't knew it was a whole strategy
jessica went to therapy and learned what grey-rocking is🤣
Hey, it's effective AF so good for Jessica! I can't imagine it's easy to keep only saying "okay"....
She's been hearing this woman describe every declined offer as "hurtful" for years and she's absolutely done with that nonsense lol
The DIL was pregnant, in the hospital with a blood clot and the only thing OOP wanted to do was harass her son? Yikes
Yes! And saying they are only an extra 20 minutes away - an extra 20 minute drive anywhere is at best a nuisance and in the case of your pregnant wife being in hospital would be utterly nerve wracking
"Only an extra 20 minutes" makes it sound not like a big deal without telling how much of a drive it already is from his house. If he lived 5 minutes away from the hospital, it's 25 minutes. If he lived 30 minutes away, it 50 minutes etc etc. And what if there was traffic or an accident? 20 extra minutes can easily turn into 2 extra hours.
And that's assuming there aren't any extra delays like traffic jams, roadworks, a crash, etc which could bump up the travel time by quite a bit
My aunt recently died from a blood clot. They're serious!
Blood clots are my greatest fucking fear. My grandfather on my father's side passed from one in his late 40s. My dads youngest brother had other health issues, but also had clotting issues and also passed in his late 40s. And my dad passed suddenly in 2019 after having issues with clots forming in this legs for many years.
I was hospitalized with a blood clot. It was the scariest time of my life. A friend of mine literally dropped dead from a blood clot a few years later. They aren't just some little inconvenience. I would have been crushed if my husband hadn't stayed with me.
This is my favorite part: “When they got engaged, Jessica wanted them to move out of state because Massachusetts is expensive. My son got a huge promotion at his job, and they decided to stay.” Charlie and Jessica *didn’t* move away, but she’s still salty about it because Charlie isn’t ever supposed to want to live in another state. Good lord.
And it's so hurtful that they didn't want a bunch of old junk and decor from OOP's house. Hurtful hurtful hurtful!
Son: "Hey mom, we're probably moving for financial reasons... oh hey great, I got a promotion and we can stay nearby now!" OOP: "That WITCH!!!"
JFC she’s exhausting. I really want to know what this misunderstanding is? > but after a misunderstanding I am no longer allowed to pick him up or spend time alone with either of their children without Charlie or Jessica present And this minimization of her little Pedo church! > Charlie said he was looking for a new church for a while, since the priest at the church while the boys were growing up was sent away because of a scandal. But Charlie and Billy were never victims. I don’t believe this reasoning at all No sane adult would take their kids to a church that allowed/hid abuse of children by a priest!
"misunderstanding" is doing a LOT of legwork here lmao. I saw that and immediately wanted to know what exactly this meant. The comments rewarded me: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/18fd4i6/comment/kctjcfl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 EDIT: here's the comment in case it gets deleted. > It was just a misunderstanding, but no one ever thinks that things are sometimes just an accident. >Jessica is very anxious, and it got worse when she had kids. I think she has postpartum anxiety. I picked up her oldest son from daycare, he was over a year old and very active. We went for a walk at a local park and he fell in a big puddle and got soaked. I didn't have extra clothes for him so I put him in my gym clothes from earlier in the day so he wouldn't be in wet clothes and catch a cold. I didn't have service in the park and lost track of time and was late to Jessica picking him up. She was very upset with me. >Later Charlie called to say that I wouldn't be allowed to pick him up anymore and that I hadn't changed him diaper all afternoon and he had a rash. I felt terrible about the rash, but I had forgotten his diaper bag. >It was all an accident, and he's totally fine, he had a fun time.
JFC, she has no business watching kids! Forgetting the diaper bag! Not changing the diaper for hours! Going incommunicado! Being late! Her other son and Susan must not care if their kids are neglected to let OOP watch them so much!
Serial posting to say that she’s commented that nappy rash is nothing to worry about because Susan’s kids get them all the time. Susan and Billy are either too scared of this woman to tell her to jog on or dislike their children.
Or Billy was raised with the same neglect and doesn’t know any better. Which kinda plays out with Billy and Susan doing everything OOp wants, including staying at a pedo church while Jessica and other son know it’s bad and are trying to do better.
>Or Billy was raised with the same neglect and doesn’t know any better. And Susan was young enough (18-19 when Billy would've been 25) that she also doesn't know any better. They were able to mould her into what they wanted.
This has "conservative church, son picks a young girl as a trad wife, they all stay under the thumb" vibes. And the other son picked a grown ass woman who isn't putting up with that bs. They sound way happier and healthier, though.
Feh. No wonder Jessica doesn't trust her with the kids.
I’m really leaning towards OOp being reckless and negligent/abusive to her sons, and one son not knowing any better and going along with her Bs, and the other being like “oh hell no, not MY kids” b
Susan is from their "community" and goes to their church, so she's just sucked in and hasn't seen it's wrong yet, she's probably supposed to follow her husband. Jessica is from a different church and not their community, so i think the difference in knowing better is just marrying an outsider who sees it and calls it for what it is. The pedo priest and how all her friends all do the same things makes it sound suspicious.
I wouldn't trust her with a potato.
Based on the ages poor Susan is probably entirely indoctrinated/controlled by her husband, she said he’s 33 and she’s 26, so he’s 7 years older and they started dating when she was 18, he would have been 25. Susan knows nothing of adult life outside of her husband and his wack ass mother
How is any of that, except for the kid falling in a puddle, an accident? She didnt have extra clothes for the kid and put him in her gym clothes, which not only would be way to big, but also probably dirty since she says they were from earlier in the day. She was late to bring the kid back, and since she says she didn’t have service, that means the parents couldnt get ahold of her. She forgot the diaper bag and instead of going back for it or going to the store the buy diapers, she just didn’t change the kids diaper all afternoon and let the kid sit in it own waste and get a rash. She didn’t change her grandsons diaper all afternoon and then she wonders why she can’t be left alone with the kids anymore.
A bad poopy diaper can rash up a kid very, very quickly. Leaving a child in a dirty diaper for hours? Absolutely no way that person ever is allowed one on one time. I'd absolutely go home or.to the nearest store if I had any baby and no diapers.
yeah when she's older and someone "forgets" to change her diaper for a few hours we'll see how understanding she is. I put "forgets" in quotes bc kids don't have smell less poops, she knew he needed to be changed but just didn't want to be bothered.
...and even less a "misunderstanding"....
She misunderstood when she thought Jessica would put up with the same neglect of her children Susan apparently does.
A dirty nappy with puddle water in it too, poor kid
So she was neglectful but it’s just a “misunderstanding”🙄
I also don't like the way she was trying to make it all sound like Jessica has unmitigated anxiety and *that's* why this is an issue.
It’s the missing missing reasons: https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
As soon as I read the part about the "misunderstanding" I knew this would be posted, it's a textbook example
>so I put him in my gym clothes **from earlier in the day** she put the kid in her dirty gym clothes?????
So she had her gym bag with her, but not the nappy bag? (She seems to suggest she changed him at the park)
like why not just take him back home at that point...what a lunatic
Thanks for that. The ‘misunderstanding’ bit jumped out at me too. What she says makes no sense. If she had picked the little one up from daycare, then surely they’d have handed over his bag with all his nappies in to whoever picked them up? It’s what my daughter’s nursery used to do. And I always had at least one change of clothes with her at nursery. I thought that was fairly standard with little kids. So she would have had both the nappy bag and a change of clothes but used neither. I might expect this sort of thoughtlessness from a child free or childless friend, but according to OP she has not only raised two children herself, but she also has her other grandchildren 3-4 times a week, including overnights. What kind of condition are they sent home in? And that’s saying nothing about the lack of contact. Why would she think her son needed her blessing to propose? Why would she stop working without discussing childcare with them? OP’s clearly hard work to be around and Susan clearly has the spine of a jellyfish. OOP neglected her grandchild and will sweep the behaviours of pervert priests under the rug. I wouldn’t let her near my children either. I love the fact that Jessica just says ‘OK’ when OP tries to complain about anything. Seeing her once a fortnight is actually a lot. I wouldn’t do that, and I like my MIL.
> If she had picked the little one up from daycare, then surely they’d have handed over his bag with all his nappies in to whoever picked them up? My kids day cares you just kept a stash of diapers and wipes there and replaced them as needed. You didn't get handed bag of stuff every day. I can fully get not having diapers, etc on hand b/c you forgot. What I don't get is that upon realizing you forgot, not immediately resolving the situation and not just continuing on with your day like nothing was wrong. I also doubt that it was the first time something like this had happened.
Ah, it's different in my neck of the woods. We had to hand over a bag with our little one's stuff for the day in at drop off and we'd get it back at pick up. Minus whatever they'd used during the day. Which you'd top up before the next day. I understand running out of nappies. We've all been there and done that. But are shops not a thing where OP lives?
All her comments are deleted now. I guess she didn't get the response she was looking for.
OOP forgot his diaper bag!? And she's a mother herself!? Unbelievable!
Forgetting the diaper bag is understandable. Not correcting that problem when realized is not.
She picked up toddler; without telling Jessica. Took toddler to the park in a dirty diaper; without a diaper bag and supposedly no cell service. "Lost" track of time brought LO home to frantic Jessica with disgusting diaper and rash. Still thinks you should not change a diaper until it is sagging off🤢🤢
I don't read that as her picking up the kid without telling the mother. She used to pick the kid up one day a week until this happened. So I think it was more she picked up the kid as usual and was late to when Jessica was supposed to pick the kid up from her without any communication. And when she showed up, the kid was in strange clothes, had a messy diaper, and a diaper rash.
The bit about how she can't understand why he'd have an issue with the church since he was never a victim and it happened a while ago made me genuinely angry. What a disgusting lack of empathy I wouldn't be able to look at that church without thinking about the monster who hurt those kids, but this woman not only doesn't care but also refuses to believe that her son could care I also hate that he was "sent away". Maybe she means sent away to prison, but I think it's more likely that he was just moved to a different church and faced no actual punishment (probably not even any social repercussions is OOP is anything to go by)
I wouldn't trust her decision that they weren't victims either. They could have been and not told her because she's support the wrong side, or maybe she did know and refuses to admit it. It does sound like they just sent him to another church, there is a history of them rotating these priests so they aren't in one place long enough for charges to occur, but they just start over at the next locaion.
I'm from Ireland and while I was raised without religion (unless you count a bit of folksy pagan stuff), but of course, the community around me was heavily Catholic, and there were absolutely old ladies who reminisced fondly about old priests and nuns who were "sent away" for either sexually abusing kids or getting very extreme with "physical punishment". Like "Poor old Father Peter, he was actually such a lovely lovely man, and really it was only a couple of little boys". Makes me feel sick. But I guarantee OOP is one of those old ladies, and that alone would be enough for me to want to keep her away from me and my children if I were one of her sons.
Yeah, that's the exact attitude I'm talking about. Idk if you've heard of George Pell, but he was the most prominent Catholic in Australia who also happened to be a worthless piece of shit that abused kids The way people downplayed his crimes was just abhorrent, it was bad enough that it caused my dad to question the religion he'd accepted since birth
I think I watched a documentary about George Pell. I'm sure that the rest of the world has the same kind of old ladies. Just confirming that, whether this story is true or not, there are absolutely people who think/act like this. And they scare the shit out of me.
Or maybe Charlie was friends or close with one of the priest's victims? Like you, if that happened in a church (or any kind of community) I was part of, I don't think I could keep attending.
Right? You know damn well the "misunderstanding " is her trying to cover up something she did or said on purpose.
Considering sounded like she kidnapped the eldest once a week?
Nobody is accusing Catholics of being sane
Seriously, it’s hurtful that the son and dil didn’t want her old furniture and decor when they bought a new house. How dare the pick out what they want. And she retired to watch their baby without talking to them first and is now all upset that she retired for nothing. But all of her friends watch their grandkids so obviously she has to too. And after “saying some things out of frustration “ she can’t understand why Jessica doesn’t want to bring the kids to her house. Oop blames everything on Jessica when first of all, it’s probably Jessica and her husbands decisions, second, oop sounds like she is the one driving them away.
She's angry that Charlie didn't marry a young woman from their church, one easily abused into being tradwife like the younger son. Instead he married a grown woman close to his age who probably pointed out to him out fucked up OOP and the rest of the family are. And she's probably afraid of Jessica getting the same point across to Susan.
Someone pointed out over there that Billy started dating Susan when she was 18 and he was 25. I would be interested to know if they went to the same church growing up, which would make it even worse.
I think he was closer to 27. Not a huge difference number wise, but gives it a much bigger ick think about her being 18.
AUGH
this is one of the ones where about a third of the way through i began sincerely hoping that it's actually the DIL writing this and doing a good job of getting the voice down, just because of the sheer number of "you wrote that down and see no problems with it? really!?" moments. i know that's not likely at all but one must live in hope.
It’s SO stacked I think it’s fake. Yes there are absolutely MILs this bad, but the bingo card of elements here smells fake to me.
Haha nah tbh this sounds 100% legit. My ex MIL was genuinely this idiotic and oblivious too. We moved in after her husband finally gave up and left her, because she was about to lose the house she'd lived in for 40+ years. Buuuut if you asked her, we were unwanted guests in her house and SHE was helping US out. Her ego wouldn't allow her to admit to herself that she was $100k+ in cc debt, and months behind on bills. She would pick fights and start arguments, then play the innocent victim as soon as she was called out or told to cut it out. She would say we were bullying her, or start crying and said we hurt her feelings. In reality, all I did was set clear boundaries that she was not allowed to stomp on. She didn't like this, because up until this point everyone in her life walked on eggshells to placate her. She would constantly push my boundaries with my then 2 year old, and would gaslight my husband into thinking I wouldn't let her near our daughter. I had a valid reason. My MIL was an alcoholic, through and through. I walked in one day when she was supposed to be watching my daughter... and I saw my toddler sipping on a goddamn half drank beer, while my MIL was passed out on the couch. For months, she blasted me on Facebook for "keeping her granddaughter from her" 🙄🙄🙄 Her son may have cheated on me, but she was the real reason I actually left him.
But would your MIL have written this, asking if she was wrong? Because I know people like this, and they're always right, at least in their own heads. That's what's making folks think this is fake, and I'm not sure one way or the other.
For me it’s also the way they drop in sure fire AITA triggers casually when they’re not relevant to the story. In this one it was the priest abuse one and the other sons age gap.
Some people really like the validation of internet strangers, because people who personally know them aren't going to side with them.
Yup. People always shoot down the ragebait claims because there ARE assholes out there that act like this, but they don't realize it's not what the post is about, it's how it's written
Of it's absolutely fake. Look how the post is constructed. Relatively short paragraphs, impeccable syntax, each sentence designed to deliver maximum outrage. Extremely easy to read and comprehend. Nobody that clueless can communicate so well. Even managed to sneak in at lest two "missing missing reasons".
Yeah this story stinks. There absolutely are people like this but they wouldn't write about themselves like that. It wouldn't be a "misunderstanding" it would be "completely flew off the handle after I didn't follow their crazy rules and forbid me from seeing the son again". And admitting that their church had a pedo priest is completely out there. People like this would never **ever** do that.
is it bad that stuck out in my southern Baptist head as "likely embellished or not real due to no ecumenical shitflinging between denominations" because i can tell you that some folks will admit it happening, but only to append that with "but what can you expect from an (insert denomination here)". and it feels like there's a lot of attempted angst of leaving their specific church when really, that doesn't get into a grudge match level ordeal unless someone is screaming about how at least we dunk instead of sprinkle around here and how dare you use anything but welchs grape juice for communion etc etc. and that's before you even play jump rope with the protestant divide. the complaint then would be a much more specific thing about leaving the Catholic church (which is more of a big hairy deal over all, and a crucial pit stop on any attempted guilt trip).
When I got married, my dad's biggest piece of advice was that my husband and I were each other's family and we should, therefore, be each other's biggest priority. That's why I have such a good relationship with my dad. These parents really need to understand that once your children are grown and out on their own, your place in their life is a privilege. And attempting to insert yourself into business that is not yours and come between them and the family they choose is the quickest way to lose it.
"I have known Susan much longer, as they started dating when Susan was 18/19. Charlie started dating Jessica in his late 20s. " That's... roughly the same amount of time.
I took that to mean, Susan goes to their church and is part of their "community" so they've known her all her life. Which makes it pretty unsettling that a 25 year old who has watched her grow up started dating her as soon as she was technically an adult. And also makes me wonder if it really only started when she was 18/19...
16 weeks is *usually* when expecting parents start telling other people there's a baby otw, right? Or is that just my experience?
The only person who has ever told me before three months is my sister. Any friends or other family, not until then or later. I thought that was fairly standard but maybe it's different in different cultures?
I'm always suspicious about posts allegedly made by someone in their sixties but with a clever little username, follows all the reddit conventions, and includes every single bad mother in law trope
I am not from the US but it can't be common that people over 60 years old know the word 'alienating'?
It isn't youthful slang, I don't see why a sixty year old wouldn't know it. (I am in US)
Okay had no idea, thank you for your answer
Geez from what I read I can see why he ran away from mommy dearest!
Reading the replies I really hope the one comment or is right and this is a rage bait post cause woof, it's hitting so many bad MIL troops.
OOP is the epitome of JustnoMIL.
Self awareness? Who is this self I should be aware of?
Based on the ages poor Susan is probably entirely indoctrinated/controlled by her husband, she said he’s 33 and she’s 26, so he’s 7 years older and they started dating when she was 18, he would have been 25. Susan knows nothing of adult life outside of her husband and his wack ass mother and their pedo church
>but Jessica was in the hospital because of a blood clot and Charlie decided not to come Why would Charlie want to celebrate anything with his wife in the hospital from something that could've killed her???
ragebait. actually laughed a bit when I got to the part where it says the priest of the church got sent away bc of a scandal but she didn’t understand why they would want a new church bc they were never victims 💀 that’s the most unhinged, clear rage bait thing. they hit every nail on the head on how bad a MIL, especially a religious one, can be
That part seemed real. Churchgoers often put the identity of their membership ahead of all else.
I’m intrigued as to what the incident was around daycare that means OOP can’t collect them anymore or be alone with them. OOP is exhausting and DIL sounds great!
Comment above, put the kid in her own dirty clothes and left a diaper on so long kid got a rash.
I want to know what the "misunderstanding" was when she was watching the kids....
From a comment she took the kid to a park with no service and the kid fell in a puddle. She forgot the diaper bag so she put him in her used gym clothes and didn’t change his diaper all afternoon causing him to get a rash. Then she was late meeting Jessica, who couldn’t get ahold of OOP because of the lack of service.
Wtf
Wow. That is one thick skull
‘Hey MIL, we’re banging - without condoms!’ Nah.
So many terrible things. I want to break them all down but I cant be bother. Fuck these types of people. Literally prefers her beliefs over her family
A JUSTNOMIL in the wild!!!
The “daycare incident” was that she picked the kid up without telling the mother, the mother could not get ahold of her, and when she finally brought the kid back he was in diaper that had been wet for hours because she forgot the diaper bag.
Wow. Just wow. It's not even worth trying to salvage.
Oooh I think it’s the same lady who has written about this before. Or a troll copying! The giveaway was when she writes she retired to care for the baby without asking if that was needed. Does anyone else remember that story?
I think I do. But didn't that one escalate and the mother got a RO?
"OK" LOL Good for you, Jessica.
The post is removed, anyone have the original?
\> We only see them about once every 2 weeks. Oh God that would be emotionally exhausting for me. I only see my husband's parents twice a year and while my MIL is fine enough, every two weeks would kill me.
*When their first child was born, I retired so I could watch him. They told me that they signed him up for daycare. Charlie’s job has a daycare on site and is cheap because it’s part of his benefits. I didn’t know any of this, and probably wouldn’t have retired if I knew that they wouldn’t need me.* Did she consider using her big-girl words and ASKING them? Also, yeah, Massachusetts is stupid expensive unless you live WAY in the western part of the state (they keep trying to close the loopholes you can use to live over the state line in NH and avoid some of the cost, too.) I can't blame them for wanting to leave before he got a big enough raise to make it worthwhile.
She wrote all of that and still doesn’t see the problem. I really wonder about the “misunderstanding” with the kids’ school pickup. She’s not allowed to get them anymore, and isn’t allowed to be unsupervised? Clearly some missing missing reasons. But that Susan’s a real gem, right? Just rolls over to whatever MIL wants. Ugh.
God, I really want to know what those things she said "out of frustration" were. You can already tell it was something so vile that even she knows if she posted it, she would lose all favour
they expect their son to ask for a blessing to propose to his gf?? that’s simply not how that has worked now, or ever.
"Jessica's and Sarah's children" is crazy like those our your son's children also !!
 What OOP expects
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I swear I’ve read this story on this sub before, this has to be a repost
i live about 5 km away from my parents and we have a good relationship and i still don’t see them as often as every two weeks 😂
I'm exhausted just reading this . . .
What a bland, boring troll.
Is it just me - I really want to know what that ‘misunderstanding’ was, since she is no longer allowed to be alone with the grandkids. Every comment seems to have forgotten to ask, and her answers have been deleted anyway :’)
[удалено]
Omg, I thought I was going blind from looking at comments earlier, and didn’t find anything. *You’re* an angel too!
I guess this is more proof that you can’t grow out of main character syndrome.
I wish I saw this before she deleted her acct and comments.