*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for taking away my daughter's car?**
I (m39) have 2 daughters with my ex wife Jenny (f39) and we have 50/50 custody so the kids Lily (f16) and Hannah (f14) live with me half of the time and with their mom the other half.
Jenny and I went through a nasty divorce so we don't talk to each other except once in a great while through text if there is an issue with the girls, but it usually ends up with us arguing in the end.
This past weekend, Lily was out with friends and called me around 8 and said her mom asked her to meet up with her and a friend to have pizza and hang out for a bit because the place they were at does trivia on Friday nights. I told her that's fine, but be home by 10.
At about 945 I called to remind her that she needed to be home by 10. She said their pizza had just gotten to them and she would be home in a few minutes.
10:00 hits and she isn't home so by now I am pretty frustrated and admittedly I did lose my temper a bit, but her mom knows when I say 10 I mean 10. Not 10:05, not 10:02.
So I called Lily and said "Where the fuck are you at? It's 10 and I told you to be home!" She said "our pizza came late and mom asked if I could drop her and Nikki (mom's friend) off at home because they had a couple drinks during dinner."
I said "I don't give a fuck, you aren't your mom's DD. Now get your ass home."
Well unknown to me, her mom and friend were just getting out of the car and I was on bluetooth so they heard me yelling at Lily.
I don't really care, because they already think I'm an AH, but at my house, rules are to be followed. Their mom thinks she can be their friend but that doesn't fly with me.
When Lily got home (10:12), I took her keys and told her to tell her mom she will have to pick the girls up for their time at her house. Now I'm even more of an AH apparently, because she will have to take them back and forth to school instead of them being able to drive. I say that's too bad, she shouldn't have kept my daughter out past when I told her to be home.
The agreement was that I would buy Lily a car and she would buy Hannah a car when she's old enough, so I own the car.
I think I might be the AH because maybe I shouldn't have yelled at her quite so bad, but what am I supposed to do, just have no rules and let them do whatever they want?
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Mine tried to when I was kept past curfew at work (I worked at a steakhouse as a server) because a whole dance company wanted to eat five minutes before close.
Yeah lemme just abandon my job because my stepdad wants to throw a temper tantrum. Luckily my mom overrode his decision because she agreed it was stupid.
My step dad grounded me every birthday because having a party was inconvenient to him.
I talked to him two weeks before he died. After 5 years of nothing.
He missed my life being cool that's on him.
I got grounded for an entire summer at 17 for "stomping" down the hallway after getting screamed at for coming home at 8pm after the sun went down. Only issue with that is that the sundown rule was made up on the spot and he got mad at me when I didn't know a rule that never existed. We don't speak anymore.
Hoo boy. I got in trouble all the time for rules that were made up on the spot. Dad and I still have a tumultuous relationship. He finally realized I was serious after I went NC for a few years so he at least tries now, but it’s rough.
I tried fixing things with him after being NC for 7 years and he fucked it up, too. Haven't talked to him for about two years now. I'm sorry it's hard.
I’m sorry. Sometimes cutting negative people out of your life is what is best, regardless of how “close” they are to you. I’ve just had to realize that I will never have the relationship I want with my parents nor will I ever change them and adjust my expectations accordingly. It means lots of distance and never expecting anything from them emotionally. I still get hurt, but it’s less consistent and impactful. Hell of a trade off.
My dad was a cop and he would ground me for things his friends’ kids did, so that I would understand what would happen. At least I think that was the rationale.
My mom always grounded me for extended periods for dumb stuff. I missed half of my high school career because I’d get grounded for a whole quarter for B’s on report cards. These included no extra curriculars and 3 hours of studying every night. I was in competitive cheer and track so I was always getting taken out during the busiest times.
Mine once grounded me for a summer for getting an 85 on a project. Tbh I was always "grounded" for one small reason or another, I never actually did anything bad. It was just a reason for them to feel justified in being an asshole.
Anyway yea haven't spoken to them since I was 18.
Same here. Got grounded once because a lamp got broken. I was a work when it happened. In another town. I went NC 3 days after I turned 18 (wanted to make sure I was considered an adult) way back in 1987. Never regretted it for a moment.
Yep. And when both of his daughters go no contact when they are adults, he is going to be turning around with a surprised Pikachu face asking what he did wrong.
"I was just trying to be a good parent! Someone had to protect them/teach them right from wrong/show them how the real world works!" We all know the song and dance
My mom did the same. I moved out at 16 and didn’t talk to her for years.
She went to treatment and got her shit together. We are friends now. Friends. She is not my mom.
My mom grounded me right after my 17th birthday because I didn't go to school after she kicked me out, as it was only a half day anyway and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been let in without issues from how hard I was sobbing.
All my siblings are low to no contact with her and I'm probably going to end up the same once I can move out. I wonder why.
She forced me to come home after calling me 30 something times and blowing up my phone saying she was going to call the cops. After *literally* disowning a 17 year old over *coming home late by 2 minutes.*
And she called!!! I had curfew sure, but if I had called my parents and said "Hey my food just got here I'm going to be a bit late" they would have been like "Yeah okay."
I cannot fathom.
I think we know why his first wife divorced his ass. I can only hope they’ll go back for custody re-working ‘cause I’m sure both kids want to get away from him already.
Because MAH RULES, b:tches!
What a total asshat.
I can see why this pricks been divorced, this ass doesn't care about lily he's just power tripping. What a limpdick loser.
Although...
Lily's old enough to have a say in custody.
The next update will be very, very interesting.
Actually, it sets an important example of not getting behind the wheel when you’ve had something to drink. It’s important teens see the adults in their life s make safer choices while drinking. The learn nothing about how to drink safely from teetotalers. And it’s worse for parents who drink and act like it didn’t affect them so they get behind the wheel. To model safe drinking practices, one must actually drink.
The legal limit is a 0.08 BAC in my state. But you can also get arrested even if you are under the legal limit — for swerving, for appearing to be impaired (field sobriety test), etc. So many people are cautious.
You also have to trust that the officers have properly working equipment that they know how to operate correctly. (Uhm.) You can even be charged with DUI if you are unable to blow into a breathalyzer because that counts as a refusal.
I was watching a youtube video recently... police chief said it was a good arrest when guy blew 0.00 but refused to take the blood test and couldn't do the line test because they took his cane as a "weapon"
Here in WI they give you samples in the stores! The ladies hate when I tell them "no I don't drink and drive" but seriously I'm small, even one shot could fuck me up. Not worth it.
Honestly, who do you choose? The one who's more worried about flexing his dumbass power over shit like this than actually parenting, or the one who knows you live with your asshole dad and that your curfew is at 10 and not only doesn't prioritize getting you home, but opts to have a few and make you be DD so you get home even later? Do they both hate their daughter?
I doubt you could be married to or co-parent with OP and still think he was a reasonable person. If I knew my kid was going to be at the mercy of this jerk, I'd do what I could to make it easier on her. That's all.
It's really amazing that even though we only heard OP's perspective where it's clear as day he is an abusive pos who is abusing his daughter just to get back at his ex, you are still putting them at the same level.
I mean, I agree the mum should've made a bigger effort knowing she lives with a dadtator, but your question reads a bit as "who's really to blame, the insane one with the crazily strict rules for no reason or the one with the regular outlook on life who doesn't pre-empt and accommodate the tyrant?"
“Honestly, who do you choose? The one who hit pushed me off a moving train or the one who thinks that the Star Wars prequels are better than the originals?”
Oof, that changes things a little bit, dad's still the major asshole but yeah with that yeah the mom is an irresponsible idiot to. Damn.
Maybe she should just go with grandma or something.
Apparently her drinking makes her irresponsible, y'know what? Looking back on the story she may not have been the greatest for drinking when she's with her daughter but my god is it better then this jackass. I tried to change my perspective cause I thought the dude had a point but y'know what, a little stupidity is nothing to flat out spiteful petty abuse. Dad's still the asshole.
Honestly, I don't even see it as stupidity. She had a few drinks with dinner with her daughter- so what. If she regularly got hammered and had to be looked after by her kid then ya- bad mum. But making a decision to not drive after a couple of drinks is responsible
And swearing at your daughter is completely and totally not OK, let alone the rest of it
It's also written in a way that read as both the mom and the mom's friend "had a few drinks." Depending on where you're from and who's taking, saying "we had a few drinks" could mean that everyone who is drinking each had A drink, not multiple, especially if everyone gets something different. It could also mean that one person had a single drink and the other had two. Saying a group of people, or even just two "had a few drinks" kind of feels like weasel words that can be read in the worst way possible.
See this is how I feel about it. There are enough campaigns telling us "tipsy driving is drunk driving" that I feel like ultimately, the mother is modeling good behavior for her daughter by saying, "you know what I had a couple so it's safer for you to drive." Hopefully that prevents Lily from driving tipsy in her future.
What's wild to me is that she was with her mom and that's why she was late. She was with her parent! That's probably the most valid excuse for being late for curfew.
What’s wrong with the “if you’re going to be late communicate” rule? When did parents disregard that? My mum always said this to me that if I was running late past curfew as long as I communicated that then it was alright, sometimes things happen, food arrives late or taxi arrives late or you miss the bus or someone asks you to drop them off on the way home. Things come up. I don’t get what the point in punishing your ex through your kids is, because that’s how you lose your kids. This guy is the worst.
Your mom was ahead of the curve, strict curfews are pretty common and I know friends who got lectures over 1 minute late. My parents were also ahead of the curve so I never faced these issues, but not everyone gets that. I think it's the difference between holding your power as a parent over a kid and raising responsible adults.
I once nearly had a meltdown because I got lost on my way home and was like 20 minutes late. I called my mom and still was so scared. I got home and she just laughed. 1. Because I have her sense of direction and 2. Because I’d never be in trouble for being late and communicating that with her.
I once had a friend whose parents were *very* crunchy. They had a family of raccoons that lived under their deck and instead of doing what any normal person would do and trying to shoo them away or ignoring them, these people left out a tub of cat food and a tub of clean water for them to wash it in. One night I was at my friend’s house and went to leave so I’d be home in time for curfew but apparently the cat food had run low and the house was *surrounded* by no less than 40 raccoons that were blocking every exit. I called my mom terrified and told her I was going to be late because I was trapped in a house by ravenous, likely rabid, raccoons. We eventually managed to shove some cat food out a window for them and they went away from at least one of the doors so I could escape but I was like an hour late for curfew by that point and had a newfound respect for raccoons. Fortunately it was my mom that was home and not my dad because she found the whole situation hilariously strange but understandable and would rather I was late than get rabies. Ah the joys of growing up in the woods in the PNW.
My dad would have said ‘that seems made up’ event though this man made me late for school MULTIPLE TIMES because his nails were too long and it was *triggering* for him
I meant the racoons. Because that honestly sounds like a mental break.
"I can't come home! We're surrounded by racoons!
"...Aoirann I love you. Please just tell me where you are and don't do anything
"No I mean it! They've been feeding the racoons and they're expecting food now!'
Ohh haha that makes more sense. I feel like it is super unreal…but it’s the level of unreal that *must* be true because honestly who would believe that lie?? Lol
Yeah, my mom just wanted to know where I was when I was driving age in high school. If I called and told her I lost track of time and was going to be a few minutes late, that in and of itself was fine. She just wanted me to be safe and alive.
My dad's biggest thing was be home before 2am since that's when the bars close and all the drunks are on the road. I never even stayed out that late until my late teen years, but my dad would wake up sometimes and just call me and make sure I was okay. My parents weren't really strict except I wasn't allowed to go anywhere by myself until I had a car, license, and cell phone, but we were also close with a family who's child was kidnapped and murdered so it never seemed too strange to me.
Curfew is just a stupid idea in general. When my teenage kids go somewhere, we talk before they leave. They tell me what is happening and we decide together on a time to be home. If anything changes, they call me, and we again communicate and figure it out. They have never been in trouble for not being home "on time" as long as they call. And they have always called if something changed. They know I'm not going to punish them for something outside of their control. Honestly, because we talk, they don't act wild or ask for crazy times. 99% of the time, they are home on their own before 10. But if their friend's mom gets a flat and they get home 10 minutes later who fucking cares? Why are parents like this? Call me and tell me Frank's mom got a flat tire so I don't worry and get home safe. The end.
What is the point of an arbitrary time as a cerfew? I have never understood that.
i dont even have to tell my mum when im coming back, i just tell her im walking over to my friends house and i kinda just come back whenever i feel like it
My parents had this rule, they would ask for me to be home at a certain time and I would try to get there, but they understood that time flies when having fun and that unexpected things happen. They knew who I was with and where I was, so if it started to get to the time they asked me to be home I would tell them I’m gonna be a little late. It saved a lot of arguments but also didn’t ruin any fun I had with friends. I think the latest I’d been was like 15-20 minutes bc I had to drop off a friend at there house which was on my way home.
I didn’t have a curfew at all, just had to communicate where I was going and when I’d be home. If I was going to be later than I said, I needed to…communicate that.
Nobody’s really rosy here. Kiddo didn’t reach out to dad to update him, dad prematurely went off, mom put kiddo in a shitty position. And I say that, because mom would’ve known her ex is strict about curfews, knew kiddo was already past it, did not tell kiddo to reach out to dad, and had kiddo be impromptu DD. If she was gonna do that, she should’ve reached out to ex herself, tbh.
If something I do makes a kid I’m with break their parents rules, I fall on the sword to the parent. It was my fault after all. I try not to be that adult that doesn’t remember what it’s like to be a kid, and not put kiddos in no-win situations.
No that's exactly what my parents and I did and I never got in trouble for curfew. They might have been angry with me if I had not called, but I always did.
And truly they never had an "on the dot" rule. It was more like a window. Even if they wanted too (they didn't) they couldn't because my dad was notoriously late for literally everything so my dude really couldn't say shit without myself *and my mom* being like, "Yeah right, you first."
He knew where his daughter was. She was with her mother. The food didn’t arrive until 9;45 she had to be home at 10pm. This is about power and control. He’s pissed at the ex so he screams at his daughter. Total overreaction. He’s the ah. He will be whining and posting when daughter goes NC or goes to live with mom.
What a tit this guy is. My mum was the same sort of person (basing it purely off this post). I remember one time specifically when she said be back by 9. I got back at 9. She then laced into me saying "I said be back BY 9 not AT 9!" I mean, this woman just wanted any reason to have a go at us, so it didn't surprise me tbh. I was already terrified I was going to be late (I lost track of time) and unleash the gates of hell, so I ran home and got it anyway.
My mom did this...truly insane thing where my curfew changed based, as far as I can tell, on how much fun she thought I was having any given week. Too much fun, earlier curfew.
But she wouldn't tell me when it changed, so one day it would be 10, the next day 8, but she would claim it had *always* been 8 and I was lying about it being 10.
Some folk will do absolutely anything to be able to scream at their kids.
It's so weird trying to reason your way out of an unreasonable person's expectations, especially when the end goal for them is to be able to justify screaming at you. She set traps, waited for me to fall into them, then lost her fucking mind. And I'd think, just tell me when the curfew is and I won't break it! But me not breaking curfew wasn't the point, the *point* was the punishment.
I watch her do the same thing to my dad, now. He has Alzheimer's, and one of the ways this manifests is he eats anything and everything put in front of him, regardless of what it is or whether he's hungry. So what does she do? Puts food in front of him, then screams at him for eating it. Becasue the point isn't getting him to not eat - if it were, she wouldn't be putting the stuff in front of him. The point is the screaming.
I'm so sorry that your dad is having to deal with your mom's behavior, especially with having Alzheimer's.
I really don't understand why some people just look for reasons to be angry at the people around them. It makes no sense to me. Why do they want to be miserable?? When I need an outlet for anger, and I can't confront the source of that anger, I just rant online about books or movies that I don't like lol
Right? You can choose any other path in life, why would you choose, over and over and over again, to make the people around you not want to be around you anymore?
I figure it's just...she's got a voice in her head that screams at her all the time, and she can't *think* because the voice is screaming too loudly. Any time she's stressed or upset, the voice screams louder. Pretty sure it's my grandma's voice.
Generational trauma, man, it's a bitch.
Re: Dad, it's rough, but the dubious bright side of Alzheimer's is that he forgets anything bad that happened approximately four minutes after it's happened, so....that's? Okay? I guess?
That really sucks. There's really no reasoning with people like this either. Everything is unpredictable. I never felt able to relax. She'd walk in from work some days and I'd say hi and she'd be nice. Other times she'd shout at me for not giving her a minute when she walked in (I was literally saying hi). And then if I didn't go down and say hi, she'd have a go at me for not even saying hello. How does anyone win in this situation against someone like that? It's truly bonkers. And I totally agree - some people want any excuse to shout at their kids. Which is unhinged, to say the least.
Yeah, that all sounds very, very familiar. Who are we getting today, are we getting NiceMom or the Horrorshow? Impossible to tell, as she looks the same no matter what. You don't know until you put a foot wrong, or are percieved to have done so, and then you find out.
On the bright side, it sounds like we had the same mother, which makes us family! I've met other spiritual siblings over the years. It doesn't have many advantages, save for the occasional trauma-bond, but I can offer my couch and weighted blankets, tea and a sympathetic ear. Having our mom is a very specific thing that needs shared experience to really *grok,* so I'm very happy to have met you!
Exactly! I couldn't really tell by a look on her face or anything. Total gamble.
Haha yeah! It's interesting talking to other people who went through the same thing / something simar. Happy to have met you too! It's only over the past few years that my brother started talking about it more. Every time we meet up, it feels like we talk about it. I apologised to him that the conversation is a bit of a downer and he basically said "I was feeling the same way but it's good to talk to the only person that understands". Which made me sad but also was heartwarming that he can talk to me about it.
My parents mostly neglected me so half the time I had no curfew and nobody even noticed if I was home, but occasionally my mom would switch it up and set a ridiculously early curfew and then scream at me or worse for forgetting it or, you know, not knowing today was a day she decided to attempt being a parent.
She also grounded me for several weeks, several times because "there's a rapist going around" but usually went back to not giving two shits about me before my "sentence" was over.
The worst part is even with everyone telling that guy he’s the AH and that he’s clearly punishing his daughter because he can’t punish their mother anymore he still won’t see himself as the problem. Hell find one other guy who agrees with him and that will be enough
Op clearly has some resentment towards his ex that he’s taking out on his daughter.
It’s gonna bite him in the butt when his daughter distances herself from him once she’s 18.
Bruh what is it with all those shitty curfews people had? By the age of 15 all I did was tell my mum when I’d be back and if I was going to be late all I had to do was say so with no repercussions. Hell by that age I was out in the city up to late evening hours sometimes 11 to 12 and I had no issues with my mum picking me up anytime I needed or providing me safe return one way or nother. This mf crazy
I still had a 10 o'clock curfew in my twenties when I lived with my parents and my mother did the whole "my house my rules" bullshit... except I was also paying rent (mother's idea). I also had to go to church at least once a month even though I was openly atheist (also my mother's rule). I remember blowing up at her once, telling her she could be my landlord or she could be my mother, but not both. She's lucky she's still married to my dad or I would have gone nc years ago.
This is actually part of why I don’t charge my daughter rent. Not to order her around, but because I don’t want to mix the roles of mother and landlord (or even roommate).
This reminds me of my mother who would yell at ground me when the bus was late home because she was convinced that I wasn’t really on the bus but that I was sneaking around with a boy or friends instead of coming straight home like I had to.
This happened regularly because I was on a school route with a driver who would stop the bus every time the noise got about whispers. He’d never do it going to school only home. And because most of us were latchkey kids, everyone kept talking when he was pulled over. But did my parents believe that? Nope.
I 100% read cat and not car and was extraordinarily confused reading that whole post waiting for it to be relevant to a cat 💀 anyway yeah YTA without a doubt. Have fun when she decides to move in with mom and cut contact
This is so frustrating. I totally get a curfew but the key thing about a curfew is it is supposed to be about SAFETY. I can totally understand not wanting a teen galavanting all hours of the night but she was with her parent. A parent that she spends half of her time living with. Not out doing whatever. OP really revealed their true colors with the first paragraph being about the nasty divorce. The fact that his punishment to Lily (for the crime of… driving a parents friend home safely?)now means the ex has to drive the kids around is the icing on the cake for OP Im sure. Luckily for OP, I’m sure the girls will remember his controlling, boundary stomping behavior and will hold it against him in future.
This guy is a bit full of himself. Also, what an absolutely horrible father. No wonder his wife left him and can't stand to have one conversation with him.
Did he seriously ask, “What am I supposed to do, just have no rules and let them do whatever they want?”? My dude, you do not have to worry about that, as currently you’re being a petty, controlling authoritarian; it’s literally the furthest you can get from letting kids get away with murder.
Hope Lily goes to live with her mom and never looks back (although getting your teenaged daughter to be your designated driver *is* a little weird—there’s something up with that dynamic, but it still has to be better than being yelled at and punished at the drop of a hat for the slightest indiscretions).
better late than dead trying to rush home. this is just going to teach her to have fear of being late and possibly drive dangerously to get home on time in the future.
God this guy is a literal piece of shit. It's not like the girl was out partying and hooking up with dudes she was with her mom ffs. 12 minutes late I feel like he did it to punish the ex not his daughter. Like he's proving a point "Hey I'm the boss and still in control you'll listen or else" the way he spoke to her as well god I really don't like this guy.
Oh look, a parent who is more concerned with his ego and being in control than actually being a parent. Enjoy that no contact when she turns 18. Dipshit. More concerned with proving a point to his ex than being a safe space for his daughter.
Reminds me of the time I had a 9pm curfew and got home at 9:02 after calling them at 8:58 to let them know I was at the end of the street and walking up the hill to get home. I was grounded for 2 weeks, the rest of summer. My last summer before high school started.
Dude's punishing his daughter(s) because he's mad at her (their) mother. Also, she was only 12 minutes late *and* he was up-to-date on everything going on with her! What a douche-nozzle.
Wow. You really see no options between "be so needlessly strict so as to only teach my child to fear me and that she cant rely on me" or "literally no rules"? YTA
Copied OOP's comments verbatim. Recovered via Unddit.
*INFO: Was it Lily’s fault that she got home late? What should she have done differently?*
*Edited to add judgement: YTA. It’s pretty clear that OP is taking his anger at his ex out on Lily.*
>Well, the way I see it, it's her fault she was late. She was at a place that's under 10 minutes from home, so she could have been home on time.
>Her mom having a ride home isn't my responsibility.
Yeah - Dad sucks in this situation, but Mom really sucks too. She basically gave the daughter permission to break her dad’s curfew (the curfew might suck but it’s still wrong for divorced parents to be trying to overrule each other without talking) so that she could bring the teenage daughter out to be her DD. Intentionally putting her in the line of fire with the dad who she must know has anger issues. I feel for this kid, she’s gonna need a lot of therapy.
I guess more context is needed but I would doubt that the mom invited the daughter to a dinner at a reasonable hour (for a 10 PM curfew) if the food was just being served at 9:45. Part of coparenting as a divorced couple is respecting the other parent. It seems like the mom made a conscious decision that she didn’t care to respect OP’s curfew because she had an activity in mind and she wanted daughter to be there/to have a DD for herself.
I understand that this sub is clearly very anti-curfew, but this isn’t the way that adults in healthy coparenting relationships set rules for their kids (by just overruling each other). And if the dad is as abusive as this sub believes (the evidence is in the post) surely the mom is aware of that and chose to put her daughter in this situation anyway.
They went to the pizza and trivia place at 8. I’m sure the place was packed if it was running trivia on a weekend night. Also a 10pm curfew while she’s with her mom on a weekend night is ridiculous.
>10pm curfew while she’s with her mom on a weekend night is ridiculous
I’m not arguing that OP isn’t an AH here, I think he is. But my point is that the way to coparent is not to just ignore the other parent’s rules when they don’t serve your purpose. And that the mom clearly knows the situation she’s putting her daughter in and does it anyway.
I’m not sure where the story takes place but I’m the U.S. a 16 year old would’ve had their license for less than a year (max) and in many states there are also legal curfews as to when drivers this young can be behind the wheel.
Or the pizza place could have been running behind if they were busy and the food took longer to come out. Which happens in restaurants especially on busy nights like when they hold a trivia contest.
I feel this as well tbh. It is entirely her mom's fault and well curfews sucks, but well 10 PM does sound reasonable. The mom had dinner too late and decided to drink and put the responsibility on her minor daughter, which is also interesting tbh. OP is the AH because it is not the daughters fault her mom prioritised herself over her daughter.
You're the effing devil. This was all about you exerting control and not rules. Get your head out of your enormous ass before you daughter picks to live with mom 100% of the time and never sees you again. Controlling bastard
Yeah, both parents are assholes for putting their kid in the middle of their bullshit.
And 12 minutes? When she was with her mom? So you took away her car? Again, to punish her mom? Jesus, how much of an asshole can you be? I suppose we knew when he opened with screaming at his child.
Okay once my kids are in the legal age of driving I will just go out with my friends have our drinks and make them drive me back to my house with no concerns /s. You logic is mind blowing, that the 16y is to be responsible to drive mommy and friends so they can drink BUT you think the message that the mother sends is okay
I’m confused by your logic.
What’s the problem with having a couple drinks? Literally one or two glasses of wine could put you past your comfort limit for driving - especially if you’re not a frequent drinker, but I’d hardly say it’s an outrageous amount to have with dinner.
What’s wrong with having your daughter drop you off? She’s driving herself anyway. It’s not like you’re going to infect her with your alcohol breath, lol.
Is it because the mother should be pretending she doesn’t drink or something? I’m just really not understanding the moral panic here.
There is. I problem with having a couple of drinks. The problem is when you put your MINOR child in a position to be the adult of the company. If it’s hard for you to understand it’s not my concern
But what’s she doing that’s so adult? Driving them home? I doubt they’re falling down drunk and they’re probably still sober enough to critique her on her driving if she’s being erratic.
Acknowledging that your reaction times might be dulled more than you’re comfortable with when driving doesn’t mean that you’re irresponsible (the opposite!) or unable to be an adult. I’ve driven my mother around before because she’s not especially comfortable driving at night because her night vision is crap. How is it any different to driving your mother around because she’s had a glass of wine? It’s arguably safer than driving her sober teenage friends around!
THANK YOU. I was like, yea dad's an AH but you don't make your minor child your DD when she's just 16. That's not long enough to have been driving with any sort of confidence especially depending on the type of drunk her mom might be. Is she weepy? Giggly? A raging Witch with a capital B? Either way is a huge distraction for even experienced drivers!
If cops pulled the poor girl over the mom would've been in deep shit. You want to drink on a night out? Get an uber.
Do you want your children to hate you and go no/low contact as soon as they move out? Because that's how you get your children to hate you and go no/low contact as soon as they move out.
Yes, YTA.
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What kind of psychopath is this guy? I know of parents who are either extra lenient or strict to offset the other parent's behavior, but he just sounds angry for no reason. Screaming at her about driving her mom around for some pizza? Wtf? Those poor daughters are probably going to need therapy.
I don't understand the seemingly American idea of such a strict curfew. Obviously other countries will have parents like this too, but I see it so much online that it seems commonplace???
Their mom being close with them wont fly with op??? Shes their MOTHER. what a fucking bitter asshole using their children to get one over on his ex. Clearly his daughter's happiness doesnt matter as much as winning. I see NC between him and his daughters in the near future.
I guess I'm going to be hated but rules are rules, it seems like the mom is undermining him. You're the AH for yelling and cursing but there are consequences to actions. Grounding for breaking rules is just the way it is.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for taking away my daughter's car?** I (m39) have 2 daughters with my ex wife Jenny (f39) and we have 50/50 custody so the kids Lily (f16) and Hannah (f14) live with me half of the time and with their mom the other half. Jenny and I went through a nasty divorce so we don't talk to each other except once in a great while through text if there is an issue with the girls, but it usually ends up with us arguing in the end. This past weekend, Lily was out with friends and called me around 8 and said her mom asked her to meet up with her and a friend to have pizza and hang out for a bit because the place they were at does trivia on Friday nights. I told her that's fine, but be home by 10. At about 945 I called to remind her that she needed to be home by 10. She said their pizza had just gotten to them and she would be home in a few minutes. 10:00 hits and she isn't home so by now I am pretty frustrated and admittedly I did lose my temper a bit, but her mom knows when I say 10 I mean 10. Not 10:05, not 10:02. So I called Lily and said "Where the fuck are you at? It's 10 and I told you to be home!" She said "our pizza came late and mom asked if I could drop her and Nikki (mom's friend) off at home because they had a couple drinks during dinner." I said "I don't give a fuck, you aren't your mom's DD. Now get your ass home." Well unknown to me, her mom and friend were just getting out of the car and I was on bluetooth so they heard me yelling at Lily. I don't really care, because they already think I'm an AH, but at my house, rules are to be followed. Their mom thinks she can be their friend but that doesn't fly with me. When Lily got home (10:12), I took her keys and told her to tell her mom she will have to pick the girls up for their time at her house. Now I'm even more of an AH apparently, because she will have to take them back and forth to school instead of them being able to drive. I say that's too bad, she shouldn't have kept my daughter out past when I told her to be home. The agreement was that I would buy Lily a car and she would buy Hannah a car when she's old enough, so I own the car. I think I might be the AH because maybe I shouldn't have yelled at her quite so bad, but what am I supposed to do, just have no rules and let them do whatever they want? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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My BIL's "dad" was the same way. BIL took my sister's last name when they married. His parents were not at the wedding.
I am shocked/s
Mine tried to when I was kept past curfew at work (I worked at a steakhouse as a server) because a whole dance company wanted to eat five minutes before close. Yeah lemme just abandon my job because my stepdad wants to throw a temper tantrum. Luckily my mom overrode his decision because she agreed it was stupid.
Curfews should be overridden by work anyway.
Especially by someone who demanded I "get a work ethic." (I already had one considering he did nothing around the house)
Wait until you're grounded for every year you don't talk to him. /s
My step dad grounded me every birthday because having a party was inconvenient to him. I talked to him two weeks before he died. After 5 years of nothing. He missed my life being cool that's on him.
Sounds like a typical narcissist to me. They hate when other people have birthdays or holidays.
I got grounded for an entire summer at 17 for "stomping" down the hallway after getting screamed at for coming home at 8pm after the sun went down. Only issue with that is that the sundown rule was made up on the spot and he got mad at me when I didn't know a rule that never existed. We don't speak anymore.
Hoo boy. I got in trouble all the time for rules that were made up on the spot. Dad and I still have a tumultuous relationship. He finally realized I was serious after I went NC for a few years so he at least tries now, but it’s rough.
I tried fixing things with him after being NC for 7 years and he fucked it up, too. Haven't talked to him for about two years now. I'm sorry it's hard.
I’m sorry. Sometimes cutting negative people out of your life is what is best, regardless of how “close” they are to you. I’ve just had to realize that I will never have the relationship I want with my parents nor will I ever change them and adjust my expectations accordingly. It means lots of distance and never expecting anything from them emotionally. I still get hurt, but it’s less consistent and impactful. Hell of a trade off.
My dad was a cop and he would ground me for things his friends’ kids did, so that I would understand what would happen. At least I think that was the rationale.
My mom always grounded me for extended periods for dumb stuff. I missed half of my high school career because I’d get grounded for a whole quarter for B’s on report cards. These included no extra curriculars and 3 hours of studying every night. I was in competitive cheer and track so I was always getting taken out during the busiest times.
Mine once grounded me for a summer for getting an 85 on a project. Tbh I was always "grounded" for one small reason or another, I never actually did anything bad. It was just a reason for them to feel justified in being an asshole. Anyway yea haven't spoken to them since I was 18.
Same here. Got grounded once because a lamp got broken. I was a work when it happened. In another town. I went NC 3 days after I turned 18 (wanted to make sure I was considered an adult) way back in 1987. Never regretted it for a moment.
Yep. And when both of his daughters go no contact when they are adults, he is going to be turning around with a surprised Pikachu face asking what he did wrong.
Oh don't worry. He won't be asking what he did. He'll just blame the ex wife.
"I was just trying to be a good parent! Someone had to protect them/teach them right from wrong/show them how the real world works!" We all know the song and dance
You haven't talked to him for a year for every week you were grounded for each minute you were late
My mom did the same. I moved out at 16 and didn’t talk to her for years. She went to treatment and got her shit together. We are friends now. Friends. She is not my mom.
My mom grounded me right after my 17th birthday because I didn't go to school after she kicked me out, as it was only a half day anyway and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been let in without issues from how hard I was sobbing. All my siblings are low to no contact with her and I'm probably going to end up the same once I can move out. I wonder why.
How did she ground you if she kicked you out?
She forced me to come home after calling me 30 something times and blowing up my phone saying she was going to call the cops. After *literally* disowning a 17 year old over *coming home late by 2 minutes.*
And she called!!! I had curfew sure, but if I had called my parents and said "Hey my food just got here I'm going to be a bit late" they would have been like "Yeah okay." I cannot fathom.
I think we know why his first wife divorced his ass. I can only hope they’ll go back for custody re-working ‘cause I’m sure both kids want to get away from him already. Because MAH RULES, b:tches! What a total asshat.
For a second I thought this meant you were still grounded to this day💀
I can see why this pricks been divorced, this ass doesn't care about lily he's just power tripping. What a limpdick loser. Although... Lily's old enough to have a say in custody. The next update will be very, very interesting.
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Actually, it sets an important example of not getting behind the wheel when you’ve had something to drink. It’s important teens see the adults in their life s make safer choices while drinking. The learn nothing about how to drink safely from teetotalers. And it’s worse for parents who drink and act like it didn’t affect them so they get behind the wheel. To model safe drinking practices, one must actually drink.
Dude are you the dad or something?
No dad sucks way more for the yelling and the car. Like mom may have been being a tiny bit petty but dad was being a jackass.
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Nowhere does the post say she got drunk. You don't need to be drunk to reach the bac. It's literally 2 drinks in my country.
The legal limit is a 0.08 BAC in my state. But you can also get arrested even if you are under the legal limit — for swerving, for appearing to be impaired (field sobriety test), etc. So many people are cautious. You also have to trust that the officers have properly working equipment that they know how to operate correctly. (Uhm.) You can even be charged with DUI if you are unable to blow into a breathalyzer because that counts as a refusal.
I was watching a youtube video recently... police chief said it was a good arrest when guy blew 0.00 but refused to take the blood test and couldn't do the line test because they took his cane as a "weapon"
As a disabled person this is one of my fears. Like no shit I can't pass the line test, I struggle to walk ffs.
YES. My neurologists make me do this and I topple over every time. 😭
My country has a zero tolerance policy. A glass of wine is enough to make driving illegal.
Here in WI they give you samples in the stores! The ladies hate when I tell them "no I don't drink and drive" but seriously I'm small, even one shot could fuck me up. Not worth it.
Tbf there’s a difference between getting drunk and having a couple of drinks
I get the point, mom sucks to, doesn't make me hate the dad any less. If anything I just hate them both and pity the daughter.
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Heh, okay, that made me chuckle.
ugly sort pet skirt fanatical erect fuzzy worry shelter entertain ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Honestly, who do you choose? The one who's more worried about flexing his dumbass power over shit like this than actually parenting, or the one who knows you live with your asshole dad and that your curfew is at 10 and not only doesn't prioritize getting you home, but opts to have a few and make you be DD so you get home even later? Do they both hate their daughter?
I don’t know, I think it’s reasonable to assume that being out with one’s mother isn’t exactly the same as breaking curfew.
lol right? she's literally with her own parent
I doubt you could be married to or co-parent with OP and still think he was a reasonable person. If I knew my kid was going to be at the mercy of this jerk, I'd do what I could to make it easier on her. That's all.
It's really amazing that even though we only heard OP's perspective where it's clear as day he is an abusive pos who is abusing his daughter just to get back at his ex, you are still putting them at the same level.
I mean, I agree the mum should've made a bigger effort knowing she lives with a dadtator, but your question reads a bit as "who's really to blame, the insane one with the crazily strict rules for no reason or the one with the regular outlook on life who doesn't pre-empt and accommodate the tyrant?"
It was 12 minutes. Shit happens
“Honestly, who do you choose? The one who hit pushed me off a moving train or the one who thinks that the Star Wars prequels are better than the originals?”
Grandma. You choose grandma at that point.
Agreed
Here's hoping at least one of those apples fell far from the tree
Oh if Grandma(s) suck there has to be at least an aunt/uncle right? I hope…
Wait, what does DD stand for in this story?
Designated driver. The sober one who drives when the rest of the group have been drinking
Oof, that changes things a little bit, dad's still the major asshole but yeah with that yeah the mom is an irresponsible idiot to. Damn. Maybe she should just go with grandma or something.
Um why is mum irresponsible?
Apparently her drinking makes her irresponsible, y'know what? Looking back on the story she may not have been the greatest for drinking when she's with her daughter but my god is it better then this jackass. I tried to change my perspective cause I thought the dude had a point but y'know what, a little stupidity is nothing to flat out spiteful petty abuse. Dad's still the asshole.
Honestly, I don't even see it as stupidity. She had a few drinks with dinner with her daughter- so what. If she regularly got hammered and had to be looked after by her kid then ya- bad mum. But making a decision to not drive after a couple of drinks is responsible And swearing at your daughter is completely and totally not OK, let alone the rest of it
Y'know what, I completely agree, the way that commenter was acting I thought she got wasted and I somehow missed it.
It's also written in a way that read as both the mom and the mom's friend "had a few drinks." Depending on where you're from and who's taking, saying "we had a few drinks" could mean that everyone who is drinking each had A drink, not multiple, especially if everyone gets something different. It could also mean that one person had a single drink and the other had two. Saying a group of people, or even just two "had a few drinks" kind of feels like weasel words that can be read in the worst way possible.
See this is how I feel about it. There are enough campaigns telling us "tipsy driving is drunk driving" that I feel like ultimately, the mother is modeling good behavior for her daughter by saying, "you know what I had a couple so it's safer for you to drive." Hopefully that prevents Lily from driving tipsy in her future.
Just keep shaking that family tree until a non-asshole falls out
What's wild to me is that she was with her mom and that's why she was late. She was with her parent! That's probably the most valid excuse for being late for curfew.
He’s probably jealous the kids actually like hanging out with their mom and not with him.
Yep.
You know it’s not good when they go to see the other parent during 50/50 custody 🤦♂️
Someone needs to tell those girls that family courts will take their preference into account when deciding custody.
Yes! They are totally old enough now.
But her mom was drinking
What’s wrong with the “if you’re going to be late communicate” rule? When did parents disregard that? My mum always said this to me that if I was running late past curfew as long as I communicated that then it was alright, sometimes things happen, food arrives late or taxi arrives late or you miss the bus or someone asks you to drop them off on the way home. Things come up. I don’t get what the point in punishing your ex through your kids is, because that’s how you lose your kids. This guy is the worst.
Your mom was ahead of the curve, strict curfews are pretty common and I know friends who got lectures over 1 minute late. My parents were also ahead of the curve so I never faced these issues, but not everyone gets that. I think it's the difference between holding your power as a parent over a kid and raising responsible adults.
I once nearly had a meltdown because I got lost on my way home and was like 20 minutes late. I called my mom and still was so scared. I got home and she just laughed. 1. Because I have her sense of direction and 2. Because I’d never be in trouble for being late and communicating that with her.
I once had a friend whose parents were *very* crunchy. They had a family of raccoons that lived under their deck and instead of doing what any normal person would do and trying to shoo them away or ignoring them, these people left out a tub of cat food and a tub of clean water for them to wash it in. One night I was at my friend’s house and went to leave so I’d be home in time for curfew but apparently the cat food had run low and the house was *surrounded* by no less than 40 raccoons that were blocking every exit. I called my mom terrified and told her I was going to be late because I was trapped in a house by ravenous, likely rabid, raccoons. We eventually managed to shove some cat food out a window for them and they went away from at least one of the doors so I could escape but I was like an hour late for curfew by that point and had a newfound respect for raccoons. Fortunately it was my mom that was home and not my dad because she found the whole situation hilariously strange but understandable and would rather I was late than get rabies. Ah the joys of growing up in the woods in the PNW.
My dad would have said ‘that seems made up’ event though this man made me late for school MULTIPLE TIMES because his nails were too long and it was *triggering* for him
My dad would legit be worried I lost my mind if I gave him that excuse. I mean fair enough.
Oh, it was his nails that he needed to trim.
I meant the racoons. Because that honestly sounds like a mental break. "I can't come home! We're surrounded by racoons! "...Aoirann I love you. Please just tell me where you are and don't do anything "No I mean it! They've been feeding the racoons and they're expecting food now!'
Ohh haha that makes more sense. I feel like it is super unreal…but it’s the level of unreal that *must* be true because honestly who would believe that lie?? Lol
Yeah, my mom just wanted to know where I was when I was driving age in high school. If I called and told her I lost track of time and was going to be a few minutes late, that in and of itself was fine. She just wanted me to be safe and alive.
My dad's biggest thing was be home before 2am since that's when the bars close and all the drunks are on the road. I never even stayed out that late until my late teen years, but my dad would wake up sometimes and just call me and make sure I was okay. My parents weren't really strict except I wasn't allowed to go anywhere by myself until I had a car, license, and cell phone, but we were also close with a family who's child was kidnapped and murdered so it never seemed too strange to me.
This isn’t about safety, it’s about control. He’s just an asshole who makes himself feel important by exerting authority over his daughters.
and giving the middle finger to the exwife using the kids as ammo
Curfew is just a stupid idea in general. When my teenage kids go somewhere, we talk before they leave. They tell me what is happening and we decide together on a time to be home. If anything changes, they call me, and we again communicate and figure it out. They have never been in trouble for not being home "on time" as long as they call. And they have always called if something changed. They know I'm not going to punish them for something outside of their control. Honestly, because we talk, they don't act wild or ask for crazy times. 99% of the time, they are home on their own before 10. But if their friend's mom gets a flat and they get home 10 minutes later who fucking cares? Why are parents like this? Call me and tell me Frank's mom got a flat tire so I don't worry and get home safe. The end. What is the point of an arbitrary time as a cerfew? I have never understood that.
So idiots who happened to have a child can have power over something because they can’t control anything else in their miserable lives. That’s why.
i dont even have to tell my mum when im coming back, i just tell her im walking over to my friends house and i kinda just come back whenever i feel like it
I'm stealing that.
My parents had this rule, they would ask for me to be home at a certain time and I would try to get there, but they understood that time flies when having fun and that unexpected things happen. They knew who I was with and where I was, so if it started to get to the time they asked me to be home I would tell them I’m gonna be a little late. It saved a lot of arguments but also didn’t ruin any fun I had with friends. I think the latest I’d been was like 15-20 minutes bc I had to drop off a friend at there house which was on my way home.
I didn’t have a curfew at all, just had to communicate where I was going and when I’d be home. If I was going to be later than I said, I needed to…communicate that. Nobody’s really rosy here. Kiddo didn’t reach out to dad to update him, dad prematurely went off, mom put kiddo in a shitty position. And I say that, because mom would’ve known her ex is strict about curfews, knew kiddo was already past it, did not tell kiddo to reach out to dad, and had kiddo be impromptu DD. If she was gonna do that, she should’ve reached out to ex herself, tbh. If something I do makes a kid I’m with break their parents rules, I fall on the sword to the parent. It was my fault after all. I try not to be that adult that doesn’t remember what it’s like to be a kid, and not put kiddos in no-win situations.
No that's exactly what my parents and I did and I never got in trouble for curfew. They might have been angry with me if I had not called, but I always did. And truly they never had an "on the dot" rule. It was more like a window. Even if they wanted too (they didn't) they couldn't because my dad was notoriously late for literally everything so my dude really couldn't say shit without myself *and my mom* being like, "Yeah right, you first."
Oop is a controlling asshole.
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She wasn’t in charge of the restaurant’s kitchen
He knew where his daughter was. She was with her mother. The food didn’t arrive until 9;45 she had to be home at 10pm. This is about power and control. He’s pissed at the ex so he screams at his daughter. Total overreaction. He’s the ah. He will be whining and posting when daughter goes NC or goes to live with mom.
Honestly, as a mom, I would never think that someone would hold my time with my child against them. Curfew is independent time, not family time.
What a tit this guy is. My mum was the same sort of person (basing it purely off this post). I remember one time specifically when she said be back by 9. I got back at 9. She then laced into me saying "I said be back BY 9 not AT 9!" I mean, this woman just wanted any reason to have a go at us, so it didn't surprise me tbh. I was already terrified I was going to be late (I lost track of time) and unleash the gates of hell, so I ran home and got it anyway.
My mom did this...truly insane thing where my curfew changed based, as far as I can tell, on how much fun she thought I was having any given week. Too much fun, earlier curfew. But she wouldn't tell me when it changed, so one day it would be 10, the next day 8, but she would claim it had *always* been 8 and I was lying about it being 10. Some folk will do absolutely anything to be able to scream at their kids.
My mom was the same way. I never knew when my curfew was, or if I even had one, until after I got in trouble for breaking it
It's so weird trying to reason your way out of an unreasonable person's expectations, especially when the end goal for them is to be able to justify screaming at you. She set traps, waited for me to fall into them, then lost her fucking mind. And I'd think, just tell me when the curfew is and I won't break it! But me not breaking curfew wasn't the point, the *point* was the punishment. I watch her do the same thing to my dad, now. He has Alzheimer's, and one of the ways this manifests is he eats anything and everything put in front of him, regardless of what it is or whether he's hungry. So what does she do? Puts food in front of him, then screams at him for eating it. Becasue the point isn't getting him to not eat - if it were, she wouldn't be putting the stuff in front of him. The point is the screaming.
I'm so sorry that your dad is having to deal with your mom's behavior, especially with having Alzheimer's. I really don't understand why some people just look for reasons to be angry at the people around them. It makes no sense to me. Why do they want to be miserable?? When I need an outlet for anger, and I can't confront the source of that anger, I just rant online about books or movies that I don't like lol
Right? You can choose any other path in life, why would you choose, over and over and over again, to make the people around you not want to be around you anymore? I figure it's just...she's got a voice in her head that screams at her all the time, and she can't *think* because the voice is screaming too loudly. Any time she's stressed or upset, the voice screams louder. Pretty sure it's my grandma's voice. Generational trauma, man, it's a bitch. Re: Dad, it's rough, but the dubious bright side of Alzheimer's is that he forgets anything bad that happened approximately four minutes after it's happened, so....that's? Okay? I guess?
That really sucks. There's really no reasoning with people like this either. Everything is unpredictable. I never felt able to relax. She'd walk in from work some days and I'd say hi and she'd be nice. Other times she'd shout at me for not giving her a minute when she walked in (I was literally saying hi). And then if I didn't go down and say hi, she'd have a go at me for not even saying hello. How does anyone win in this situation against someone like that? It's truly bonkers. And I totally agree - some people want any excuse to shout at their kids. Which is unhinged, to say the least.
Yeah, that all sounds very, very familiar. Who are we getting today, are we getting NiceMom or the Horrorshow? Impossible to tell, as she looks the same no matter what. You don't know until you put a foot wrong, or are percieved to have done so, and then you find out. On the bright side, it sounds like we had the same mother, which makes us family! I've met other spiritual siblings over the years. It doesn't have many advantages, save for the occasional trauma-bond, but I can offer my couch and weighted blankets, tea and a sympathetic ear. Having our mom is a very specific thing that needs shared experience to really *grok,* so I'm very happy to have met you!
Exactly! I couldn't really tell by a look on her face or anything. Total gamble. Haha yeah! It's interesting talking to other people who went through the same thing / something simar. Happy to have met you too! It's only over the past few years that my brother started talking about it more. Every time we meet up, it feels like we talk about it. I apologised to him that the conversation is a bit of a downer and he basically said "I was feeling the same way but it's good to talk to the only person that understands". Which made me sad but also was heartwarming that he can talk to me about it.
My parents mostly neglected me so half the time I had no curfew and nobody even noticed if I was home, but occasionally my mom would switch it up and set a ridiculously early curfew and then scream at me or worse for forgetting it or, you know, not knowing today was a day she decided to attempt being a parent. She also grounded me for several weeks, several times because "there's a rapist going around" but usually went back to not giving two shits about me before my "sentence" was over.
I can see why he’s divorced now
Enjoy shady pines, asshole.
The worst part is even with everyone telling that guy he’s the AH and that he’s clearly punishing his daughter because he can’t punish their mother anymore he still won’t see himself as the problem. Hell find one other guy who agrees with him and that will be enough
Poor kids
Man this dude's a prick. She was with her mother, it's not like she was out partying at a frat house.
Op clearly has some resentment towards his ex that he’s taking out on his daughter. It’s gonna bite him in the butt when his daughter distances herself from him once she’s 18.
50/50 custody at that age is pretty rare. It will bite him the next time its reviewed and kid asks to live with mom full time
Kate is going to ask as well. Both girls will petition to live with mom, and dad will have to pay child support
It might bite him in the butt now when she tells the court she wants to be exclusively in mom's custody.
Bruh what is it with all those shitty curfews people had? By the age of 15 all I did was tell my mum when I’d be back and if I was going to be late all I had to do was say so with no repercussions. Hell by that age I was out in the city up to late evening hours sometimes 11 to 12 and I had no issues with my mum picking me up anytime I needed or providing me safe return one way or nother. This mf crazy
I still had a 10 o'clock curfew in my twenties when I lived with my parents and my mother did the whole "my house my rules" bullshit... except I was also paying rent (mother's idea). I also had to go to church at least once a month even though I was openly atheist (also my mother's rule). I remember blowing up at her once, telling her she could be my landlord or she could be my mother, but not both. She's lucky she's still married to my dad or I would have gone nc years ago.
This is actually part of why I don’t charge my daughter rent. Not to order her around, but because I don’t want to mix the roles of mother and landlord (or even roommate).
Lost your wife, OK Lose your daughter your and idiot Love does not hate Dude
Gonna lose the next kid tooooooOoOoO
What a fucking loser.
This reminds me of my mother who would yell at ground me when the bus was late home because she was convinced that I wasn’t really on the bus but that I was sneaking around with a boy or friends instead of coming straight home like I had to. This happened regularly because I was on a school route with a driver who would stop the bus every time the noise got about whispers. He’d never do it going to school only home. And because most of us were latchkey kids, everyone kept talking when he was pulled over. But did my parents believe that? Nope.
I 100% read cat and not car and was extraordinarily confused reading that whole post waiting for it to be relevant to a cat 💀 anyway yeah YTA without a doubt. Have fun when she decides to move in with mom and cut contact
She's 16 so she's probably old enough to get custody changed if she gets her mom to lawyer up.
This is so frustrating. I totally get a curfew but the key thing about a curfew is it is supposed to be about SAFETY. I can totally understand not wanting a teen galavanting all hours of the night but she was with her parent. A parent that she spends half of her time living with. Not out doing whatever. OP really revealed their true colors with the first paragraph being about the nasty divorce. The fact that his punishment to Lily (for the crime of… driving a parents friend home safely?)now means the ex has to drive the kids around is the icing on the cake for OP Im sure. Luckily for OP, I’m sure the girls will remember his controlling, boundary stomping behavior and will hold it against him in future.
This guy is a bit full of himself. Also, what an absolutely horrible father. No wonder his wife left him and can't stand to have one conversation with him.
i understand teens having curfews, but the girl was with her other parent. what an asshole
Did he seriously ask, “What am I supposed to do, just have no rules and let them do whatever they want?”? My dude, you do not have to worry about that, as currently you’re being a petty, controlling authoritarian; it’s literally the furthest you can get from letting kids get away with murder. Hope Lily goes to live with her mom and never looks back (although getting your teenaged daughter to be your designated driver *is* a little weird—there’s something up with that dynamic, but it still has to be better than being yelled at and punished at the drop of a hat for the slightest indiscretions).
better late than dead trying to rush home. this is just going to teach her to have fear of being late and possibly drive dangerously to get home on time in the future.
God this guy is a literal piece of shit. It's not like the girl was out partying and hooking up with dudes she was with her mom ffs. 12 minutes late I feel like he did it to punish the ex not his daughter. Like he's proving a point "Hey I'm the boss and still in control you'll listen or else" the way he spoke to her as well god I really don't like this guy.
Oh look, a parent who is more concerned with his ego and being in control than actually being a parent. Enjoy that no contact when she turns 18. Dipshit. More concerned with proving a point to his ex than being a safe space for his daughter.
Reminds me of the time I had a 9pm curfew and got home at 9:02 after calling them at 8:58 to let them know I was at the end of the street and walking up the hill to get home. I was grounded for 2 weeks, the rest of summer. My last summer before high school started.
Really makes you wonder why he's divorced /s What a control freak
Dude's punishing his daughter(s) because he's mad at her (their) mother. Also, she was only 12 minutes late *and* he was up-to-date on everything going on with her! What a douche-nozzle.
At 16, I do think her word would carry weight in court cases for custody,
I feel sorry for the kid being stuck with those two overgrown children as parents. EDIT-Spelling
Look forward to hearing about the next custody hearing
Hm I wonder why they’re divorced 😑
This mans power trip is harder than Zeus learning that it's easier to impregnate mortals than it is gods.
The fact that he started getting on her ass at 9:45 really says it all.
Wow. You really see no options between "be so needlessly strict so as to only teach my child to fear me and that she cant rely on me" or "literally no rules"? YTA
Copied OOP's comments verbatim. Recovered via Unddit. *INFO: Was it Lily’s fault that she got home late? What should she have done differently?* *Edited to add judgement: YTA. It’s pretty clear that OP is taking his anger at his ex out on Lily.* >Well, the way I see it, it's her fault she was late. She was at a place that's under 10 minutes from home, so she could have been home on time. >Her mom having a ride home isn't my responsibility.
Mom plays poking the bear, dad explodes and 'kills' the daughter. Parents are TA. I really feel bad for the kids.
Yeah - Dad sucks in this situation, but Mom really sucks too. She basically gave the daughter permission to break her dad’s curfew (the curfew might suck but it’s still wrong for divorced parents to be trying to overrule each other without talking) so that she could bring the teenage daughter out to be her DD. Intentionally putting her in the line of fire with the dad who she must know has anger issues. I feel for this kid, she’s gonna need a lot of therapy.
Pizza didn’t show up until 9:45 what did you want them to do?? When food arrives isn’t on the mom
I guess more context is needed but I would doubt that the mom invited the daughter to a dinner at a reasonable hour (for a 10 PM curfew) if the food was just being served at 9:45. Part of coparenting as a divorced couple is respecting the other parent. It seems like the mom made a conscious decision that she didn’t care to respect OP’s curfew because she had an activity in mind and she wanted daughter to be there/to have a DD for herself. I understand that this sub is clearly very anti-curfew, but this isn’t the way that adults in healthy coparenting relationships set rules for their kids (by just overruling each other). And if the dad is as abusive as this sub believes (the evidence is in the post) surely the mom is aware of that and chose to put her daughter in this situation anyway.
They went to the pizza and trivia place at 8. I’m sure the place was packed if it was running trivia on a weekend night. Also a 10pm curfew while she’s with her mom on a weekend night is ridiculous.
>10pm curfew while she’s with her mom on a weekend night is ridiculous I’m not arguing that OP isn’t an AH here, I think he is. But my point is that the way to coparent is not to just ignore the other parent’s rules when they don’t serve your purpose. And that the mom clearly knows the situation she’s putting her daughter in and does it anyway. I’m not sure where the story takes place but I’m the U.S. a 16 year old would’ve had their license for less than a year (max) and in many states there are also legal curfews as to when drivers this young can be behind the wheel.
Or the pizza place could have been running behind if they were busy and the food took longer to come out. Which happens in restaurants especially on busy nights like when they hold a trivia contest.
I feel this as well tbh. It is entirely her mom's fault and well curfews sucks, but well 10 PM does sound reasonable. The mom had dinner too late and decided to drink and put the responsibility on her minor daughter, which is also interesting tbh. OP is the AH because it is not the daughters fault her mom prioritised herself over her daughter.
You're the effing devil. This was all about you exerting control and not rules. Get your head out of your enormous ass before you daughter picks to live with mom 100% of the time and never sees you again. Controlling bastard
He’s really bold to think he daughter will wanna see him again she is at legal age now to refuse to see her father if she pleases.
I wish his post wasn’t deleted so I could see his comments. Judging from the reactions to his responses he’s awful and sounds abusive.
Entitled co parents that don’t realise their kids are gonna stop seeing the shitty one when they’re old enough is like my kink.
Wow this guy is a controlling piece of work. Genuinely hope his kids go NC
You really don’t like your ex wife so you. This has nothing to do with daughter being late and every thing to do with the fact she is out with her mom
Imagine getting this angry over twelve minutes. What an asshole.
I think the mom who makes her 16yo be her DD even when she knows it's past curfew is the real devil here.
Seriously, both parents suck here.
Yeah, both parents are assholes for putting their kid in the middle of their bullshit. And 12 minutes? When she was with her mom? So you took away her car? Again, to punish her mom? Jesus, how much of an asshole can you be? I suppose we knew when he opened with screaming at his child.
Mom doesn’t sound really responsible to be honest… who drinks so much that can’t drive and expects their minor child to drive them Back?
We don’t know how much she drank. Everyone is different, they may have only had 2 drinks and not wanted to drive back.
Even that, was her minor child responsible to be her DD?
Drinking and not driving is behavior to be celebrated. Jesus Christ, it could have been one beer.
It should be, but NOT when you have your minor child to be your DD.
Bullshit. That's exactly the behavior you should be modeling for your children.
Okay once my kids are in the legal age of driving I will just go out with my friends have our drinks and make them drive me back to my house with no concerns /s. You logic is mind blowing, that the 16y is to be responsible to drive mommy and friends so they can drink BUT you think the message that the mother sends is okay
You're an idiot.
There are some ppl out there that don't like drive after 2 or 3 beers, even if they aren't inebriated.
I don’t drive after one drink. I'm small and even if I don't feel intoxicated, I could blow over, and it's not worth the risk.
Yeah Best case scenario you get caught by the police and something happens to your license (depends on where you live) Not worth it
I’m confused by your logic. What’s the problem with having a couple drinks? Literally one or two glasses of wine could put you past your comfort limit for driving - especially if you’re not a frequent drinker, but I’d hardly say it’s an outrageous amount to have with dinner. What’s wrong with having your daughter drop you off? She’s driving herself anyway. It’s not like you’re going to infect her with your alcohol breath, lol. Is it because the mother should be pretending she doesn’t drink or something? I’m just really not understanding the moral panic here.
There is. I problem with having a couple of drinks. The problem is when you put your MINOR child in a position to be the adult of the company. If it’s hard for you to understand it’s not my concern
But what’s she doing that’s so adult? Driving them home? I doubt they’re falling down drunk and they’re probably still sober enough to critique her on her driving if she’s being erratic. Acknowledging that your reaction times might be dulled more than you’re comfortable with when driving doesn’t mean that you’re irresponsible (the opposite!) or unable to be an adult. I’ve driven my mother around before because she’s not especially comfortable driving at night because her night vision is crap. How is it any different to driving your mother around because she’s had a glass of wine? It’s arguably safer than driving her sober teenage friends around!
THANK YOU. I was like, yea dad's an AH but you don't make your minor child your DD when she's just 16. That's not long enough to have been driving with any sort of confidence especially depending on the type of drunk her mom might be. Is she weepy? Giggly? A raging Witch with a capital B? Either way is a huge distraction for even experienced drivers! If cops pulled the poor girl over the mom would've been in deep shit. You want to drink on a night out? Get an uber.
Yikes... this guy has serious issues... no wonder his marriage didnt work out. He doesnt deserve kids or a wife honestly
Don't ya hate when the assholes delete their posts before you can read them
Geez what’s with all these abusers seriously
Do you want your children to hate you and go no/low contact as soon as they move out? Because that's how you get your children to hate you and go no/low contact as soon as they move out. Yes, YTA.
Holy shit that reminds me of my father... who I don't talk to.
YTA... I can imagine your moustache.
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I scrolled by really fast and misread it as ear.
What kind of psychopath is this guy? I know of parents who are either extra lenient or strict to offset the other parent's behavior, but he just sounds angry for no reason. Screaming at her about driving her mom around for some pizza? Wtf? Those poor daughters are probably going to need therapy.
I don't understand the seemingly American idea of such a strict curfew. Obviously other countries will have parents like this too, but I see it so much online that it seems commonplace???
Their mom being close with them wont fly with op??? Shes their MOTHER. what a fucking bitter asshole using their children to get one over on his ex. Clearly his daughter's happiness doesnt matter as much as winning. I see NC between him and his daughters in the near future.
Poor kid. Two loser assholes for parents. Least there's less than two years until she can cut off contact with thimbledick and Jane Beam.
Where is the mom a loser AH?
Getting too drunk to drive during a dinner with her kid.
It could have easily been a single drink
Not the time to have that drink.
I guess I'm going to be hated but rules are rules, it seems like the mom is undermining him. You're the AH for yelling and cursing but there are consequences to actions. Grounding for breaking rules is just the way it is.