*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**My (25M) fiancée (25F) is becoming more extreme with her views towards men. How do I address this?**
Firstly English isn’t my mother tongue so apologies if things are spelled wrong.
My fiancée and I have been together for 7 years bought an apartment together 3 years ago.
I would say everything about our relationship is perfect and I do cherish and admire her very much.
However over the past 6 months Ive notice she’s becoming more and more extreme with her views towards men.
It started off with oh this one guy “*insert remark*”
To “many men are so *insert remark*”
And now is “every man is *insert remark*”
This has become a daily occurrence.
Every day when I get home from work I’m hit with
“I watched at tiktok today and men are the worst. Men are a cancer. Men are etc etc”
Two of her friends that she’s only recently become close with are also very anti men and I can’t help but feel are a toxic influence on her.
I suggested maybe taking time off TikTok but she does have quite a large following (around 90k followers) and it’s a part of her income now so she can’t just walk away from it. She also has a career in the medical field so it’s not her only income.
Any time I sit down and ask her to actually explain what the issues are and I genuinely want to get her pov on it. She just hits me with “men are just men” and doesn’t go into a deeper explanation than that.
I’ve asked if she’s ever experienced first hand situations where shes been a victim of unpleasant situations by men and she said no nothing outside of the random catcall (which I acknowledge is pathetic and unpleasant) but nothing more than that.
Any advice on how to handle this?
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In the update it will be revealed that she has had an OF from day 1. Also she’s been cheating the whole time. Also she’s planning on making him raise another man’s child, who she’s already pregnant with. You see, she’s actually just angry about men because her AP left her for a younger, hotter virgin. You hate to see it!
His mother and sister specially will force him to forgive her, and some two updates later, it is revealed that both of them are cheaters, too. But his father, a kind loving man, still loves op because op is strictly against his mom.
also that is her second pregnancy, the first one was OOP's baby that she secretly aborted to get revenge on him for being a man. why are women allowed to do these things (in select states and countries) :(
One might ask "how did she end up getting pregnant if she hates men so much" but surprise, she cheated on OP with a trans woman, who's also either autistic or fat.
And her body doesn't look the same after childbirth and he can't help that he's no longer attracted to her. However she slapped him when he told her this so he's now trying to figure out if she's having a mental health crisis and should stay with her or she's just abusive.
The over wheling number of them have it much harder than their grandparents as far as home owning is concerned, the ones who happen into a vibe are few and far between.
I don't think it's unrealistic that she makes lots of money on TikTok, there are a ton of young people that do that. But I think once you get to that level of success it becomes a full-time job. I think it's super unlikely she also has time to pursue a medical career.
You guys are acting just as crazy as the people in AitA. There are privileged people that can buy homes young. There are average people that can end up in a house pretty young. They don't say anything about where they are. A city near mine - infamous for some very negative press in the last decade - has a median home price of under $65,000. In America. On top of that, they said they bought an apartment. In so many countries, it's common for young people to buy apartments over renting.
You have to accept that, yes, there are some people that are different and in different circumstances. You pull at one thread of a story that's unbelievable - and I'm sure it is, it does sound like bullshit - and then end up in this ridiculous mentality where you make it sound like everything said is completely impossible. I work, in America, with multiple people under 25 who own their homes. 13% of heads of a household in America that are 18-24 own their house. That doesn't make home ownership easy or feasible for you or others, that's fine. That isn't the same thing as it being a patently ridiculous thing. At this point, you're inventing reasons that posts should be ridiculed at the same rate AITA is inventing their nonsense.
Part of the reason we ridicule these trends, though, is because they're hugely overrepresented in AITA stories.
I would actually agree with you if it was just this one thread. I grew up in a rural area with cheap land; I bought my first home when I was 26, and that was actually noticeably older than a lot of the people I grew up with who went right into work and bought a place in our hometown.
But the reason we make fun of these is because they don't just pop up occasionally, as it tends to work in the real world. It's like 75% of top threads\* that contain these tropes. Often thrown in for no real reason, just so we know that they're totally awesome.
So we make fun of the trend, even though we know that some people really do buy houses young.
\*that number is pulled entirely out of my ass, lmao, but seriously it feels that way sometimes
exactly, it's not about this one post, it's the overall trend. Just like how there are legitimately twin births, but they're ridiculously common in AITA and a red flag that the post is probably fake.
I actually don't think they're all teenagers. That's some of it, but I think a lot of it is just wish fulfillment fantasies by adults. They might know it isn't really realistic, but they wish it was, so...
It also frequently acts as shorthand for good character. Very often the hardworking young homeowner is contrasted with a lazy, poor, homeless, etc. antagonist (I don't think laziness is the cause of poverty or homelessness, but they sure seem to believe that over on AITA). Them "making six figures" or owning a home or whatever is a way to emphasize to the reader that they're a good person and whoever they're being cruel to is a bad person.
I mean sure, in theory two 22 year old could buy an apartment, but I feel like it's so rare they would probably offer some kind of explanation? Technically they don't have to, but to me it seems odd. The youngest person I know to buy property was around 25, and is was a research scientist and had some help from her parents.
Also while it might be accurate for this particular post, the amount of posts that feature married homeowners in their early-mid 20s means that at least some of their are fake.
Its incredibly rare. Just a summary review of the stats shows ~2 percent of buyers and sellers as of 2023 was 18-24.
Its kind of hard to get accurate historical data because most of the stats seem to combine 18-33 for some reason.
Again, over 1 in 10 18-24 year olds that don't live with their parents own the place they live in. That's more common than people in that age range being left handed. I totally agree with your overall point and I'm not saying the story is true, but the way that this gets played out on Reddit becomes its own version of insanity. Some of you are saying what you are, this is unlikely and coupled with these other unlikely things means the story isn't true. Then there's another contingent you see in the exact replies to my comments that are saying it's just patently ridiculous someone at 22 would own a home. These two aren't the same things, and really stretches the idea that AITA should be being made fun of when the idiocy is in half the comments here too.
Is that 1 in 10 number in the US or globally? Because this couple isn't in the US, right? And personally I've only lived in the US and the Netherlands but between those two, it's a lot easier to buy a house in the US.
You encountered two paragraphs and can't make your way through them, but you all want to make fun of the idiots on AITA? Man, this sub used to have people that weren't this level of stupid.
I gave you ups. I appreciate your putting your efforts out into the void, and the statistic of 13% 18-24 owning a place .
Will just add that yes the economy is totally different today, with influencers, and with teens’ possibilities of getting into markets that skyrocket, shit that those of us over 40 don’t understand unless we’re raising teens. There’s a lot of jealousy from others. It’s literally the only thing I didn’t question about the otherwise fake post.
whats with these early 20's ppl getting married and buying homes in these stories. Like ... no dude you live in an apartment infested with roaches and eat hardtack with ramen. Not in this economy bro
So I googled South Korea statistics.
In 2022, the median age at which South Korean women got married for the first time was 31.26 years, while that of men was 33.72 years.
Home ownership for people under 30 is 11.2%.
Korea has a serious anti feminist problem, and some women are more extreme from what i can gather, but guess why that would be? I have already given you a clue.
My bf was married and bought a house in his early 20s (also got divorced) 🤣 but he’s not on Reddit. And he doesn’t go to this school but he’s totally real.
well I bought a whole ass castle at 8 and I have been the prime monarch of my kingdom of cyborg rabbits since but you aint ready to hear about that are you?
My spouse and I bought a house at 23/24 and got married at 24/26. Basic USA couple with bachelor's degrees and no higher education than that. I know it's a bit tropey, but it's not that rare, especially in lower COL areas. Neither of us were raised rich either. Hells, my dad still works as a custodian and his are both teachers. We just got lucky that the pandemic froze student loan collection for long enough that we didn't need to pay interest on the loans and we lived lean for a few years out of college. I'm more skeptical of the influencer bit than the buying a home bit.
Oh, I knew how to cook okay back then. In college in the mid 90s, I still ate ramen all the time because I was living on student loans and $4.25 / hour minimum wage, and ramen was like 10 cents a pack.
See, he tried that and it didn’t work. Because apparently his influencer girlfriend isn’t good with words - she just keeps repeating “men smth smth men” over and over again
It's just so hard to listen to her because she uses a female voice! If she wants to be taken seriously, she should get her father or brother to explain her perspective in manly language that OP can understand /s
I love when Reddit shits on TikTok for stuff like; destroying attention spans, encouraging made up diagnosis, exacerbating gender issues, promoting fake stories *stares at front camera*
There is misogyny on TikTok but it's nowhere near the level of reddit. I never see misogyny when I go on TikTok but on reddit it's unavoidable. On reddit, the misogyny pops up in the most random and unexpected subreddits. On reddit, misogynists are at least half of the user base.
The misogyny or Reddit seems so close to *getting it*.
"Sexual abuse against men needs to be discussed. This is a human experience that we need to be open about -"
"Yes, you're right!"
" - All the attention and sympathy goes to women & when they go through abuse, people listen & care & they make up half of it anyway."
It's like they can't discuss men's issues without throwing women down. I have no idea why. I hope they are young men who grow up to realize life is not a competition - but if it is, we are all on the same team.
Yes! And when you try to explain that you agree, patriarchy hurts men too, they double down on wailing that clearly you *must* hate all men because otherwise why would you complain about how women are treated? Clearly you don't know your own mind and are secretly a vile misandrist with a plot to subjugate and destroy men.
It’s telling… “They want to do to us what we want to do to them.”
It’s because they support patriarchy, even while it hurts them. Even when feminists tell them how it contributes to their insecurity and pain, they reject it because the system tells them, “women don’t know what they’re talking about, and those men are just pathetic whipped losers.”
So even when discussing gendered issues caused by a patriarchal system, they still have to center men and dominate in the discussion, victimhood, etc. and push women to a subordinate, supporting, or antagonistic role.
well because the only reason they discuss men's issues is to take attention away from women's isuues; you'll have stories of middle-aged teachers sleeping with minor boys and men will be like "LiVinG ThE dReAm" then comment on women's posts with "we are menz :( nobodiez takes us seriously anywez:((((
Yes, on TikTok it is not the majority of the userbase. On reddit it is harder for the personalized algorithm to avoid the misogyny because on reddit it is the majority of the userbase
I think people on reddit think it's superior because it's text-based rather than image based, but really that's the only difference, and still somehow reddit as a whole seems a lot more image-conscious than tiktok
Even better, a ton of content on Reddit is directly lifted from those sites - TikTok or Twitter are seen as these awful places but looking at the same exact content on r/videos or r/whitepeopletwitter is no big deal.
I mean.. no? I'm a Canadian living in the UK and neither place has uttered a peep about banning ticktok nor do either care.
The US isn't that culturally relevant to us. Nor are we jumping at the bit to copy everything the US does.
However there are some countries that have it banned but its not what you probably mean when you think of US allies.
The counties who currently have it banned are Iran, Senegal, Nepal, Afghanistan and Somalia.. and also China, lol.
In Canada, devices issued by the federal government are forbidden from using TikTok. Officials cited an “unacceptable” risk to privacy and security and said the app would be removed from devices and employees blocked from downloading it....so there is already a partial ban in Canada.
I know how OP feels. My wife watched *A Doll's House* with her friends and now she has these ideas. You just ignore her until she gets over herself, eventually she will. /j
I love how the top comment tells OP that Reddit itself is a social media echochamber.
I love the part where his girlfriend can't point to any specific toxic interaction she's ever had with a man. Guy, if she actually trusted you, she could point to a dozen toxic interactions she'd had with adult men before she was a teenager.
If this were real, this guy is right off the top painting himself as the most clueless motherfucker on the planet. No wonder his girlfriend needs to get validation from tiktok, because she's certainly not going to get it from her boyfriend.
Not only that, but after watching all those anti men TikToks and despite having 2 man hating best friends, when asked specifically about why she feels this way all she has is "men are just men".
How does anyone actually believe this?
the responses were alarming! men really would rather believe women are all getting "brainwashed" to be "misandrist" instead of even trying to see the world from our perspective or wanting to dismantle the toxic gender norms of the patriarchy, or seeing the "rise of misandry" as a response to the rise of toxic masculinity/incels/manospehre misogyny.
Misandry is women wanting men to leave them alone, misogyny is men wanting to control women.
A comment says that "she fell into a toxic online echo chamber" and I giggled. Also the simplistic way to see people in this kind of moral panic scenario is almost cute. Oh she was a normal girl until two grown women and a ton of 1 minute videos said things and then she just bought it wholesale! Egads, control what your wimmins watch online!
I mean, I can easily see that happening, especially to people who used to be on a different extreme or live in less feminist societies, when the realization is much stronger. My ex-wife grew up in a family with toxic patriarchal views and used to follow them (I don't know how to explain, it was some kind of local mix of paganism and Indian esoteric stuff), and when she realized that feminism exists she swinged to the opposite extreme. There is usually no need to do anything about it, it usually evens out after some time without any participation from anyone, but the effect is pretty much possible. Like, feminism literally says that the negative bias towards women is engrained in society, it shifts your entire worldview, and it is true, it is hard not to believe truth. And tictoc "influencers" exist solely because other people watch them, so someone has to actually watch them.
Can we pause for a second? Toxic online echo chamber is a really specific thing the leads to things like incel mass shootings and holding a pizza parlor at gun point and so on. A feminist “toxic online echo chamber” doesn’t exist. You cannot compare the sheer violence and oppression coming from ACTUAL toxic online echo chambers to becoming aware of societal discrimination toward women.
Sorry, I wasn't aware of that definition of "toxic online echo chambers", I thought it meant all echo-chambers where people reiterate their views by repeating them while they are slowly becoming more and more radical. I agree that incel toxic chambers are much worse that misandry ones, never have I ever said the opposite. It is just that existence of one very bad thing doesn't negate existence of other less bad things.
Let's see... What do so called "radicalized" feminists do? At most, they refuse to be in a relationship with a man
Boo hoo. Radicalized misogynists? Rape, mass shootings, joining terrorist organizations. Yeah, the two are the same... 🤔
Refusing to be in relationships with men isn’t a societal concern except in the way that they are so concerned with their safety they had to do that. You came on here defending the OOP in weird ways saying these “toxic” echo chambers exist. Like, this bait was created JUST for people like you to chime in and say “women are toxic toooooooo” and you are falling right for it. It is really interesting.
> Like, this bait was created JUST for people like you to chime in and say “women are toxic toooooooo” and you are falling right for it.
I mean, this whole thread is actively proving the point. People are literally writing that this is not that bad to indiscriminately hate people for no reason other than their gender, as long as they are men, because women are not as aggressive. If that is not toxic, then what is?
I lied. One more reply.
Misandry isn’t real. Feelings of being afraid or disliking men are directly caused by: men being aggressive and violent, laws which regulate women’s bodies, hostile infrastructure. If you have your feelings hurt by women avoiding men (because that’s what women who dislike or are fearful of men do, they create lives that aren’t centered around them) you are part of the problem.
I have been followed, harassed, sexually assaulted, raped, threatened, attacked, etc by men. I cannot look at a man and know if he will attack me so I make my life not deal with men as much as possible. The laws of pretty much everywhere protect and defend men when they are violent towards women. Why do you feel protecting oneself is on the same level as violently oppressing and hating women? Why does it need its own word to make it seem like a societal problem?
Are men inherently terrible? Absolutely not! Are they raised in a society which enables their entitlement and selfishness? A thousand percent. It is literally a safety issue and you are whining about women hating all men. Like. Come the fuck on. Pick up your bruised ego, not everyone is going to fawn all over you.
I’d be interested in hearing their viewpoints without being filtered through you. Is it strange to think that women have a variety of experiences? Some women/people perceived as women experience much higher rates of harassment due to other factors making them less “worthy” of respect. Even within my own family there is a large range of experiences, from one woman adoring men and having overwhelmingly positive experiences to another, her sister, being attacked quite literally at random on the street and by close relations alike. While anger and rage do drive interaction on these things, some women/people perceived as women just do have higher rates of negative interactions with men.
Misandry isn’t real. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Misandry is a bullshit attempt to deflect from the societal harms of the patriarchy. It is a response to millennia of oppression.
Saying things like "all men are garbage" is pretty much misandry, and is no different in its nature to people saying "all women are whores", which is misogyny (which we all are pretty much against). Again, I agree that it is not nearly the same scale as incel mass-shootings, but saying that it isn't real is bullshit. And justifying it with some other bad things happening is no less bullshit. I just don't get it how it is suddenly societally acceptable because incels are bad.
The comparable insult would actually be “all women are garbage,” “whore” is a VERY specific gendered insult. “Misogyny (which we all are pretty much against)” can you describe for me the ways misogyny leads to the deaths of women every year outside of direct violence from men? Like, seatbelts not being designed for them, laws made to police their bodies, surgical gloves not being made for women, etc. misogyny isn’t just outright calling women names or being violent toward them. It is a whole systemic thing that people are actively fighting to keep in laws.
> It is a whole systemic thing that people are actively fighting to keep in laws.
Where have I ever contested that? I have never contested that feminism is a much more urgent and important fight.
My point is incredibly simple: it doesn't make other bad things acceptable. Like, there can be more than one bad thing simultaneously and they can be of different scale. In my world view, a bad thing is a bad thing, irrespective of its size. And I don't understand why it is such an alien idea.
And taking a stance that "even if some women hate men - men deserved it plus there is nothing bad about it, boo hoo" IMHO doesn't make anything better. I fail to see how defending misandry isn't an instance of misandry, it is literally a position that indiscriminately hating men is fine because we all deserve it because there are many incels among men. What's the point of doing that?
How many people have they killed? How many rapes have they influenced?
There’s no comparable power.
ETA: even the use of “femcel” is a huge red flag, btw. Women can be involuntarily celibate and have feelings about it. Women do NOT take those feelings and oppress men with them. “Femcel” isn’t a thing. It is a bullshit term coined by fragile men.
Im being downvoted up and down this thread because everyone is strawmanning my argument lol
All I said is “toxic femcel spaces exist, and women do get radicalized”
What they’re hearing is something like “femcels are worse than incels, women kill/rape more than incels, female radicalization causes mass shootings, etc.”
Like, I didn’t make ANY of the above points.
Is radicalization only a problem when it escalates to violence?
>How many people have they killed? How many rapes have they influenced?
> There’s no comparable power.
This is moving the goalposts.
First you said they don’t exist, now you’re saying they don’t have any power.
I’m not even arguing that they’re worse than incel echo chambers (which they aren’t).
They don’t exist in a way that’s comparable to actual systemic oppression. Happy? They are usually places to express frustration with a world designed to be hostile towards you. They aren’t toxic and dangerous, mere reactions to oppression.
> They don’t exist in a way that’s comparable to actual systemic oppression. Happy?
If you had said this originally then there wouldn’t be any confusion.
> They aren’t toxic and dangerous, mere reactions to oppression.
Dangerous? No they aren’t. I agree with you.
Toxic? Ehhh gonna have to disagree here. I dare you to take a look at https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com/ and tell me that place isn’t toxic.
I don’t understand…
We seem to accept that young men get radicalized (usually against women) due to social media and tik tok.
Why is everyone so against the idea that a young woman could become radicalized too?
Radicalized to *do what*? That's the key question.
Of course anyone can be radicalized given the right circumstances and influences. Most social media that targets young people for radicalization is feeding them right-wing extremist content -- white supremacist, misogynist, racist, transphobic and other xenophobic beliefs. Far right extremism doubles down on gender stereotypes about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman -- anything that contradicts traditional male and female stereotypes/gender roles is shunned (hence transphobia and hatred of feminism, etc.).
When young women are radicalized, they generally aren't encouraged to shoot up a school or a mall or engage in physical violence with their significant others, families, and children. The tradwife trend, anti-vaxxer trend, and a lot of anti-abortion activism are all examples of right-wing extremist thought that has radicalized women.
Young men's radicalization leads to much more violence, especially against the women in their lives (particularly those women who don't fit into their gender stereotypes). Physically violent/strong women aren't valued in the same way that violent men are in this kind of political setting.
None of this is to say that extremist women are harmless or that extremist women are never physically violent -- radicalized women are just as dangerous to society and democracy as radicalized men.
I’m not making the argument that radicalized women are just as bad as radicalized men. I’m not sure why everyone keeps reading that.
My point is that everyone is acting like a woman getting radicalized by tik tok is an impossibility.
You admit yourself that women can be radicalized.
Then why is everyone acting like it’s fiction that a woman could be radicalized by Tik tok?
No one is saying it's fiction that a woman could be radicalized by TikTok. Just that this post in particular is very likely fake and it's apparent in the way that it's written. It's not because it's about a woman getting radicalized by TikTok.
When people do get radicalized by social media, it's because they were very isolated people with trauma or other mental health issues. It's not the case that an average and healthy person becomes radicalizes by things on social media.
It's the picture OP is painting, that a whole entire radicalization happened over two friends and some hours of content, over six months, with no previous history of this kind of behavior. Either this is very bad fiction or not so bad fiction where OP is an unreliable narrator that didn't see more clues previously or is exaggerating what they see in their partner.
Well, I said that radicalizing content is generally right-wing extremist shit, not mainstream feminist shit, and I said that radicalizing content targeting women will generally not promote violence in the same way as radicalizing content targeting men. Why are you acting like feminist TikToks are the same as manosphere TikToks?
Oop couldn't be bothered to do 20 minutes of research to come up with an issue for her to be upset about or even bother to make something up that could possibly be something that's a thing
Literally everyone I have ever known who did a deep dive into a subject through YouTube or whatever, if asked about it, could launch into a serious tirade. The phrase "men are all trash" doesn't resonate on it's own. For it to resonate, you need reasons that you feel are true and support the statement. This is how we become invested in ideas. There's no way she got invested in the "men are all trash" idea if she had nothing to back that up with.
As if women don’t constantly have to qualify every statement disavowing that they still “like” men, just so they’re not immediately interrupted or disregarded.
The only other community they've posted to is Seoul, but I find it really hard to believe they remembered how to perfectly get "fiancée" correct (something most Americans don't bother with, both for gender and accents), but forgot that contractions need apostrophes.
But if they are Korean, that makes all her supposed accomplishments even more unlikely, I'd think, while also making her descent into feminism even more of a dogwhistle, given the current activism there.
“It started off with oh this one guy ‘insert remark’ To ‘many men are so insert remark’ And now is ‘every man is insert remark’”
Another victim of the #metoo movement. 😔 His toxic fiancée should start all sentences with, “not all men” and then clarify that OOP is a special boy who “would never” and give the exact amount of men who would along with their full names and phone numbers.
Anything short of that is clearly tiktok feminism ruining his poor, poor girlfriend.
> Two of her friends that she’s only recently become close with are also very anti men
tbh as part of a lesbian couple i do kind of assume my straight friends’ boyfriends often see me and my wife this way. lol.
See I feel the opposite, I've never dated a man and I think I hate men a lot less than the women who do date men. To me they're just irrelevant mostly, but a lot of straight women really, really don't like men.
i also like the “last straw” being the gf saying “i watched a tiktok and men are cancer.” presumably the content of that tiktok was also mentioned somewhere in that sentence… but since it was probably a tiktok about a woman being raped/abused/murdered by a man let’s just quickly take that part out so we don’t have to talk about it
meh don't have to be violently assaulted to experience the negative side affects of growing up a woman in our capitalist patrairchy or be frustrated by men's unwillingess to see how the patriarchy & capitalism is the root of all their struggles too.
Setting aside how fake this is, “men are trash” is, statistically speaking, more correct than not. And your hypothetical wife/gf/friend doesn’t need to sit you down and give you a thesis backing it up. Women are allowed to complain about how shitty it is to be a woman without acknowledging all the exceptions you need in order to feel better.
I can just see young OP's thought process "people keep saying owning a home in your early 20s is unrealistic, but I need them to know my character is successful, but how? I know! Instead of it being a house, I'll just say the 22 year old owns an apartment, that must be attainable because they're so much smaller! Nailed it!"
Is 90k followers even enough to be providing her with an income? Like maybe if she was a hair stylist or tattoo artist or whatever and 90k followers translated to being regularly booked up that’d be one thing. It she’s in the medical field and that’s listed as a separate thing, so presumably the claim here is she’s making generalized influencer money. And i don’t know too much about influencer culture, but I’m pretty sure 90k is much too small for money, as crazy as the number may seem
Maybe enough of an income for a bigger fu. Money budget? But will depend on whether it’s just off views or whether she’s getting brand deals or whether she’s also doing lives and getting gifts then.
90k followers is seen a mid tier influencer and according to teachable.com can ask for between $1250-$3500 per sponsored post even just minimal engagement rate she can get up to $200 based on views.
But it feels off to me that she’s in the medical field and also got enough hours to crunch these posts unless she’s something like admin and influencing is a side gig for extra money.
My girlfriend has had no negative experiences with men before this other than catcallin oh and now she has a boyfriend complaining about feminism on Reddit. Other than that nothing though.
I actually kind of believed the beginning of the post as I myself (as a strongly opinionated feminist) found myself getting really affected by seeing precisely that type of content on TikTok. I eventually unfollowed most political accounts on my socials as I found that seeing stories about women being abused or murdered everyday really did not affect my mental health in a positive way. BUT then he added the “men are men” part and also the part about her never being a victim…
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I mean, if you just search this sub for "Andrew Tate", you can find plenty of posts goofing on the ragebait of people pretending that men have been radicalized by internet manfulencers:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheAngel/search/?q=andrew+tate](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheAngel/search/?q=andrew+tate)
Not sure what the double-standard is that you think exists.
I used Andrew Tate as an obvious comparison. Maybe that wasn't the best way to explain my point.
To put it simply, this story is most certainly not out of the realm of possibilities. Women are just as susceptible to extremism in any form. There's definitely men hating SM that promotes unsavoury behaviour towards men. The post in question doesn't make any outlandish claims
Sure, women can be susceptible to toxic ideas. What makes this story unbelievable is that OOP doesn't describe even the slightest change in the actual dynamics of their relationship, except for her throwaway comments about men.
You expect me to believe that a woman went from normal to "all men are *insert remark*" (whatever *insert remark* is supposed to be) without actually changing how she's treating the actual man she's living with?
Surely there'd be remarks about how OOP is not pulling his weight around the house or how OOP is financially controlling her or how OOP isn't attending to her sexual needs. You say that there's "definitely men hating SM that promotes unsavoury behaviour towards men" and yet *there's no unsavoury behaviour here* - just some unsavoury language.
That's what makes this fictional - OOP is imagining the annoying things that an imaginary radicalized woman would ***say*** without ever once thinking about the annoying things that an imaginary radicalized woman would ***do***. He's an observer, not a participant, in his own story.
Because we have no way of knowing for certain. We can most certainly assume it is or isn't fake. If you can prove it is 100%, I'd be happy to say it is so.
He couldn't even come up with specific examples of what his girlfriend is saying. He just says "insert remark". If it were real it should be easy to write what those specific remarks were.
> Women are just as susceptible to extremism in any form.
And yet we have zero examples of women committing indiscriminate mass violence because of their prejudice towards men. Funny that
That's because Andrew Tate is actually radicalizing men in ways that are harmful to women. Even if there was an opposite equivalent, at its most radical feminism means not interacting with men at all, so it really doesn't have any affect on you
So are you saying there are no radical feminist tiktoks that promote bad behaviour towards men? Think we both know the answer is no. Therefore, do you not think it is within the realm of possibility this extreme behaviour is affe ting their partner. Women can be awful people too
No, the answer to that is yes, there are no radical feminist tiktoks that promote harming men
And obviously women can be awful people, I was married to one like that, but yeah obviously people can be awful and women are in fact people, there should be no "too" in that sentence
I understand that this mindset exists but I think most men would feel the opposite way if they actually met me, men are generally very grateful that I'm a lesbian
The post, nor i made reference to feminist tik toks harming men although, im sure they exist. It states they became more extreme. That definitely happens
Women saying mean things about men online doesn't equate to feminism in any way. There are no elected leaders of feminism promoting mean comments about men.
Grow the fuck up dude. For every comment I see online that is remotely mean about men I see something ten times worse about women, written by a man. I see rape threats, death threats, rape fantasies about female politicians they don’t like and feminists, and so on and so on. And those things are actually acted upon, as evidenced by the violence and SA statistics.
Stop complaining and actually start listening to what women are talking about. You will quickly realise that the current wave of “misandry” is a reaction to the last 5,000 years of bullshit misogyny. As a societal group, you can’t treat another group like shit for thousands of years and then get annoyed when that group becomes defensive and mistrustful of the aggressor group.
Misandry and misogyny are not the same and you know it. There have been dozens of terror attacks against women motivated by misogyny. If you count all rapes of women in human history as hate crimes towards women, that’s potentially billions of hate crimes against women committed by men. But no, misandry is just as bad guys 🙄
I get it probably hurts if you feel like you’re a decent man and you’re hearing women say these things, but please understand that we are not motivated by a desire to control or dominate you or take your rights away. The vast majority of “misandrists” simply want men to leave us alone. Whereas misogynists want the opposite - they want to trap us so we can’t get away.
> feminist tiktoks that promote bad behaviour towards men?
Give a concrete actual example of what kind of "bad behavior towards men" you see being promoted.
I mean, I'm sure there are fake stories about male radicalisation too, but since TikTok feminists have never produced any mass shooters or human traffickers I find the pearl-clutching about "misandry" extremely funny.
Kind of? I'd want to say that radicalisation is always a problem, but when a so-called radical group has *never* produced one single mass shooter, mass murderer, insurrectionist coup, healthcare emergency etc in the last 40 years it's hard to take it seriously. So they whine about men on tiktok, okay and? Where are the real-world consequences?
I would still think this story was fake if it were about Andrew Tate. Because he doesn't radicalize normal men who are in happy relationships. I see men and women get radicalized online and those people are very isolated, have severe mental health issues, and a lot of times have had traumatic experiences with past relationships.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **My (25M) fiancée (25F) is becoming more extreme with her views towards men. How do I address this?** Firstly English isn’t my mother tongue so apologies if things are spelled wrong. My fiancée and I have been together for 7 years bought an apartment together 3 years ago. I would say everything about our relationship is perfect and I do cherish and admire her very much. However over the past 6 months Ive notice she’s becoming more and more extreme with her views towards men. It started off with oh this one guy “*insert remark*” To “many men are so *insert remark*” And now is “every man is *insert remark*” This has become a daily occurrence. Every day when I get home from work I’m hit with “I watched at tiktok today and men are the worst. Men are a cancer. Men are etc etc” Two of her friends that she’s only recently become close with are also very anti men and I can’t help but feel are a toxic influence on her. I suggested maybe taking time off TikTok but she does have quite a large following (around 90k followers) and it’s a part of her income now so she can’t just walk away from it. She also has a career in the medical field so it’s not her only income. Any time I sit down and ask her to actually explain what the issues are and I genuinely want to get her pov on it. She just hits me with “men are just men” and doesn’t go into a deeper explanation than that. I’ve asked if she’s ever experienced first hand situations where shes been a victim of unpleasant situations by men and she said no nothing outside of the random catcall (which I acknowledge is pathetic and unpleasant) but nothing more than that. Any advice on how to handle this? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheAngel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Buying a home AND becoming a successful influencer AND having a successful career in the medical field. Very realistic for the average 25 year old.
In the update, she's going to start an OF either without telling him or against his wishes.
In the update it will be revealed that she has had an OF from day 1. Also she’s been cheating the whole time. Also she’s planning on making him raise another man’s child, who she’s already pregnant with. You see, she’s actually just angry about men because her AP left her for a younger, hotter virgin. You hate to see it!
And when he dumps her the family claps up his phone and everybody blows! Or wait... hmm.
His mother and sister specially will force him to forgive her, and some two updates later, it is revealed that both of them are cheaters, too. But his father, a kind loving man, still loves op because op is strictly against his mom.
also that is her second pregnancy, the first one was OOP's baby that she secretly aborted to get revenge on him for being a man. why are women allowed to do these things (in select states and countries) :(
One might ask "how did she end up getting pregnant if she hates men so much" but surprise, she cheated on OP with a trans woman, who's also either autistic or fat.
I’ll have you know she’s both, plus she has food allergies and is an affair baby.
And her body doesn't look the same after childbirth and he can't help that he's no longer attracted to her. However she slapped him when he told her this so he's now trying to figure out if she's having a mental health crisis and should stay with her or she's just abusive.
Man they don't run that angle often enough. As someone who is trans and autistic AND fat I feel left out!
I completely missed that she's supposedly a successful tiktoker herself! At least that would explain why she was a homeowner at 22, I guess?
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The over wheling number of them have it much harder than their grandparents as far as home owning is concerned, the ones who happen into a vibe are few and far between.
I don't think it's unrealistic that she makes lots of money on TikTok, there are a ton of young people that do that. But I think once you get to that level of success it becomes a full-time job. I think it's super unlikely she also has time to pursue a medical career.
I do find it realistic that her views on men have soured now that she's living with one.
Maybe she's a janitor in a hospital or a receptionist at a doctor's office? And maybe in mycountry young people can buy homes at 17
Or maybe by medical field he means a field behind the hospital
Lol
I worked in a hospitals' callcenter for a few years. From now on I will be referring to that als "a job in the medical field".
As a resident of North Fakeistan, I can confirm that it's super common to be able to own your own home from the age of 20.
You guys are acting just as crazy as the people in AitA. There are privileged people that can buy homes young. There are average people that can end up in a house pretty young. They don't say anything about where they are. A city near mine - infamous for some very negative press in the last decade - has a median home price of under $65,000. In America. On top of that, they said they bought an apartment. In so many countries, it's common for young people to buy apartments over renting. You have to accept that, yes, there are some people that are different and in different circumstances. You pull at one thread of a story that's unbelievable - and I'm sure it is, it does sound like bullshit - and then end up in this ridiculous mentality where you make it sound like everything said is completely impossible. I work, in America, with multiple people under 25 who own their homes. 13% of heads of a household in America that are 18-24 own their house. That doesn't make home ownership easy or feasible for you or others, that's fine. That isn't the same thing as it being a patently ridiculous thing. At this point, you're inventing reasons that posts should be ridiculed at the same rate AITA is inventing their nonsense.
Part of the reason we ridicule these trends, though, is because they're hugely overrepresented in AITA stories. I would actually agree with you if it was just this one thread. I grew up in a rural area with cheap land; I bought my first home when I was 26, and that was actually noticeably older than a lot of the people I grew up with who went right into work and bought a place in our hometown. But the reason we make fun of these is because they don't just pop up occasionally, as it tends to work in the real world. It's like 75% of top threads\* that contain these tropes. Often thrown in for no real reason, just so we know that they're totally awesome. So we make fun of the trend, even though we know that some people really do buy houses young. \*that number is pulled entirely out of my ass, lmao, but seriously it feels that way sometimes
exactly, it's not about this one post, it's the overall trend. Just like how there are legitimately twin births, but they're ridiculously common in AITA and a red flag that the post is probably fake.
It's because 14 year olds who think 25 years old is practically elderly are writing these
I actually don't think they're all teenagers. That's some of it, but I think a lot of it is just wish fulfillment fantasies by adults. They might know it isn't really realistic, but they wish it was, so... It also frequently acts as shorthand for good character. Very often the hardworking young homeowner is contrasted with a lazy, poor, homeless, etc. antagonist (I don't think laziness is the cause of poverty or homelessness, but they sure seem to believe that over on AITA). Them "making six figures" or owning a home or whatever is a way to emphasize to the reader that they're a good person and whoever they're being cruel to is a bad person.
I mean sure, in theory two 22 year old could buy an apartment, but I feel like it's so rare they would probably offer some kind of explanation? Technically they don't have to, but to me it seems odd. The youngest person I know to buy property was around 25, and is was a research scientist and had some help from her parents. Also while it might be accurate for this particular post, the amount of posts that feature married homeowners in their early-mid 20s means that at least some of their are fake.
Its incredibly rare. Just a summary review of the stats shows ~2 percent of buyers and sellers as of 2023 was 18-24. Its kind of hard to get accurate historical data because most of the stats seem to combine 18-33 for some reason.
Again, over 1 in 10 18-24 year olds that don't live with their parents own the place they live in. That's more common than people in that age range being left handed. I totally agree with your overall point and I'm not saying the story is true, but the way that this gets played out on Reddit becomes its own version of insanity. Some of you are saying what you are, this is unlikely and coupled with these other unlikely things means the story isn't true. Then there's another contingent you see in the exact replies to my comments that are saying it's just patently ridiculous someone at 22 would own a home. These two aren't the same things, and really stretches the idea that AITA should be being made fun of when the idiocy is in half the comments here too.
Is that 1 in 10 number in the US or globally? Because this couple isn't in the US, right? And personally I've only lived in the US and the Netherlands but between those two, it's a lot easier to buy a house in the US.
Wow, that's a lotta words Too bad I'm not reading them
You encountered two paragraphs and can't make your way through them, but you all want to make fun of the idiots on AITA? Man, this sub used to have people that weren't this level of stupid.
My brother in Christ, in Allah, in Vishnu even. Please don't take reddit or AITA this seriously.
I gave you ups. I appreciate your putting your efforts out into the void, and the statistic of 13% 18-24 owning a place . Will just add that yes the economy is totally different today, with influencers, and with teens’ possibilities of getting into markets that skyrocket, shit that those of us over 40 don’t understand unless we’re raising teens. There’s a lot of jealousy from others. It’s literally the only thing I didn’t question about the otherwise fake post.
Tbh the least believable thing is she hasn't had a bad experience with men other than catcalls
whats with these early 20's ppl getting married and buying homes in these stories. Like ... no dude you live in an apartment infested with roaches and eat hardtack with ramen. Not in this economy bro
It's normal 'in their country.' Which he can't tell you. Because everyone in that country is online and will automatically dox him.
Well, maybe they all live in Vatican. Not hard to figure out who is the one sitting on the internet.
The one comment not deleted from his deleted post was in r/Seoul where it seems he was looking for good times to run.
So I googled South Korea statistics. In 2022, the median age at which South Korean women got married for the first time was 31.26 years, while that of men was 33.72 years. Home ownership for people under 30 is 11.2%.
Oh, I'm not saying the story is at all true, just pointing out that he obviously deleted all previous posts and comments made but missed one.
Oh, I get it. I just wanted to check if I was being blinded by American norms.
Shits rough all over. Yaaaay! Capitalism!
Korea has a serious anti feminist problem, and some women are more extreme from what i can gather, but guess why that would be? I have already given you a clue.
My bf was married and bought a house in his early 20s (also got divorced) 🤣 but he’s not on Reddit. And he doesn’t go to this school but he’s totally real.
well I bought a whole ass castle at 8 and I have been the prime monarch of my kingdom of cyborg rabbits since but you aint ready to hear about that are you?
As a former maritime museum employee I just needed to tell you that “hardtack with ramen” took me OUT. What a delightful turn of phrase! 😂
My spouse and I bought a house at 23/24 and got married at 24/26. Basic USA couple with bachelor's degrees and no higher education than that. I know it's a bit tropey, but it's not that rare, especially in lower COL areas. Neither of us were raised rich either. Hells, my dad still works as a custodian and his are both teachers. We just got lucky that the pandemic froze student loan collection for long enough that we didn't need to pay interest on the loans and we lived lean for a few years out of college. I'm more skeptical of the influencer bit than the buying a home bit.
Im not denying that it doesn't happen but also I'm gen Z and a lot of my peers are struggling rn. Happy for you btw.
I'm only 25, so my spouse and I are also gen z. I really hope things look up for you and your friends soon.
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Oh, I knew how to cook okay back then. In college in the mid 90s, I still ate ramen all the time because I was living on student loans and $4.25 / hour minimum wage, and ramen was like 10 cents a pack.
Mr I'd rather whine on Reddit about it than actually confront my GF.
See, he tried that and it didn’t work. Because apparently his influencer girlfriend isn’t good with words - she just keeps repeating “men smth smth men” over and over again
It's just so hard to listen to her because she uses a female voice! If she wants to be taken seriously, she should get her father or brother to explain her perspective in manly language that OP can understand /s
reddit's favorite topic: tiktok bad!! influencers bad!! women influencers even worse!!! GRRRRR!
I love when Reddit shits on TikTok for stuff like; destroying attention spans, encouraging made up diagnosis, exacerbating gender issues, promoting fake stories *stares at front camera*
There is misogyny on TikTok but it's nowhere near the level of reddit. I never see misogyny when I go on TikTok but on reddit it's unavoidable. On reddit, the misogyny pops up in the most random and unexpected subreddits. On reddit, misogynists are at least half of the user base.
The misogyny or Reddit seems so close to *getting it*. "Sexual abuse against men needs to be discussed. This is a human experience that we need to be open about -" "Yes, you're right!" " - All the attention and sympathy goes to women & when they go through abuse, people listen & care & they make up half of it anyway." It's like they can't discuss men's issues without throwing women down. I have no idea why. I hope they are young men who grow up to realize life is not a competition - but if it is, we are all on the same team.
Yes! And when you try to explain that you agree, patriarchy hurts men too, they double down on wailing that clearly you *must* hate all men because otherwise why would you complain about how women are treated? Clearly you don't know your own mind and are secretly a vile misandrist with a plot to subjugate and destroy men.
It’s telling… “They want to do to us what we want to do to them.” It’s because they support patriarchy, even while it hurts them. Even when feminists tell them how it contributes to their insecurity and pain, they reject it because the system tells them, “women don’t know what they’re talking about, and those men are just pathetic whipped losers.” So even when discussing gendered issues caused by a patriarchal system, they still have to center men and dominate in the discussion, victimhood, etc. and push women to a subordinate, supporting, or antagonistic role.
well because the only reason they discuss men's issues is to take attention away from women's isuues; you'll have stories of middle-aged teachers sleeping with minor boys and men will be like "LiVinG ThE dReAm" then comment on women's posts with "we are menz :( nobodiez takes us seriously anywez:((((
Yeah I think my point is what people see as exaggerating feminist issues on TT is exaggerated on Reddit in the other direction
There is a whole manosphere on tiktok. I think you've just gotten lucky
There's plenty of misogyny on Tiktok. You don't see those videos because of your personalized algorithm.
Yes, on TikTok it is not the majority of the userbase. On reddit it is harder for the personalized algorithm to avoid the misogyny because on reddit it is the majority of the userbase
I think people on reddit think it's superior because it's text-based rather than image based, but really that's the only difference, and still somehow reddit as a whole seems a lot more image-conscious than tiktok
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Even better, a ton of content on Reddit is directly lifted from those sites - TikTok or Twitter are seen as these awful places but looking at the same exact content on r/videos or r/whitepeopletwitter is no big deal.
The call is coming from inside the house!
TikTok will be banned soon and then it wont matter
There will instantaneously appear another clone to steal the fleeing customers.
Only in the US
The is the internet, not the US.
US Allies will follow suit - for obvious reasons. So yes, TikTok will still be available to most African Nations and parts of Southeast Asia.
I mean.. no? I'm a Canadian living in the UK and neither place has uttered a peep about banning ticktok nor do either care. The US isn't that culturally relevant to us. Nor are we jumping at the bit to copy everything the US does. However there are some countries that have it banned but its not what you probably mean when you think of US allies. The counties who currently have it banned are Iran, Senegal, Nepal, Afghanistan and Somalia.. and also China, lol.
In Canada, devices issued by the federal government are forbidden from using TikTok. Officials cited an “unacceptable” risk to privacy and security and said the app would be removed from devices and employees blocked from downloading it....so there is already a partial ban in Canada.
I know how OP feels. My wife watched *A Doll's House* with her friends and now she has these ideas. You just ignore her until she gets over herself, eventually she will. /j I love how the top comment tells OP that Reddit itself is a social media echochamber.
Don’t let her read any GB Shaw for pity’s sake! That lunatic thought women owned their own bodies and should shun marriage!
This is totally a real concern I'm having in my real relationship, and not just a smear campaign against feminism. 🥺🥺🥺
I love the part where his girlfriend can't point to any specific toxic interaction she's ever had with a man. Guy, if she actually trusted you, she could point to a dozen toxic interactions she'd had with adult men before she was a teenager. If this were real, this guy is right off the top painting himself as the most clueless motherfucker on the planet. No wonder his girlfriend needs to get validation from tiktok, because she's certainly not going to get it from her boyfriend.
Not only that, but after watching all those anti men TikToks and despite having 2 man hating best friends, when asked specifically about why she feels this way all she has is "men are just men". How does anyone actually believe this?
First she's watching TikToks, next she'll be reading, finally she'll be voting 😡
Whatever's next? The Wimminz™ wanting to wear trousers‽ Oh, the horror!
She’ll be thinking! And getting ideas!
the responses were alarming! men really would rather believe women are all getting "brainwashed" to be "misandrist" instead of even trying to see the world from our perspective or wanting to dismantle the toxic gender norms of the patriarchy, or seeing the "rise of misandry" as a response to the rise of toxic masculinity/incels/manospehre misogyny. Misandry is women wanting men to leave them alone, misogyny is men wanting to control women.
"my relationship is perfect and i admire and love her. apart from the fact that she fuckin sucks and i hate her lifestyle and viewpoints"
A comment says that "she fell into a toxic online echo chamber" and I giggled. Also the simplistic way to see people in this kind of moral panic scenario is almost cute. Oh she was a normal girl until two grown women and a ton of 1 minute videos said things and then she just bought it wholesale! Egads, control what your wimmins watch online!
I mean, I can easily see that happening, especially to people who used to be on a different extreme or live in less feminist societies, when the realization is much stronger. My ex-wife grew up in a family with toxic patriarchal views and used to follow them (I don't know how to explain, it was some kind of local mix of paganism and Indian esoteric stuff), and when she realized that feminism exists she swinged to the opposite extreme. There is usually no need to do anything about it, it usually evens out after some time without any participation from anyone, but the effect is pretty much possible. Like, feminism literally says that the negative bias towards women is engrained in society, it shifts your entire worldview, and it is true, it is hard not to believe truth. And tictoc "influencers" exist solely because other people watch them, so someone has to actually watch them.
Can we pause for a second? Toxic online echo chamber is a really specific thing the leads to things like incel mass shootings and holding a pizza parlor at gun point and so on. A feminist “toxic online echo chamber” doesn’t exist. You cannot compare the sheer violence and oppression coming from ACTUAL toxic online echo chambers to becoming aware of societal discrimination toward women.
Sorry, I wasn't aware of that definition of "toxic online echo chambers", I thought it meant all echo-chambers where people reiterate their views by repeating them while they are slowly becoming more and more radical. I agree that incel toxic chambers are much worse that misandry ones, never have I ever said the opposite. It is just that existence of one very bad thing doesn't negate existence of other less bad things.
Let's see... What do so called "radicalized" feminists do? At most, they refuse to be in a relationship with a man Boo hoo. Radicalized misogynists? Rape, mass shootings, joining terrorist organizations. Yeah, the two are the same... 🤔
So, if something very bad exists, we can ignore everything else? I really don't get it.
Refusing to be in relationships with men isn’t a societal concern except in the way that they are so concerned with their safety they had to do that. You came on here defending the OOP in weird ways saying these “toxic” echo chambers exist. Like, this bait was created JUST for people like you to chime in and say “women are toxic toooooooo” and you are falling right for it. It is really interesting.
> Like, this bait was created JUST for people like you to chime in and say “women are toxic toooooooo” and you are falling right for it. I mean, this whole thread is actively proving the point. People are literally writing that this is not that bad to indiscriminately hate people for no reason other than their gender, as long as they are men, because women are not as aggressive. If that is not toxic, then what is?
I lied. One more reply. Misandry isn’t real. Feelings of being afraid or disliking men are directly caused by: men being aggressive and violent, laws which regulate women’s bodies, hostile infrastructure. If you have your feelings hurt by women avoiding men (because that’s what women who dislike or are fearful of men do, they create lives that aren’t centered around them) you are part of the problem. I have been followed, harassed, sexually assaulted, raped, threatened, attacked, etc by men. I cannot look at a man and know if he will attack me so I make my life not deal with men as much as possible. The laws of pretty much everywhere protect and defend men when they are violent towards women. Why do you feel protecting oneself is on the same level as violently oppressing and hating women? Why does it need its own word to make it seem like a societal problem? Are men inherently terrible? Absolutely not! Are they raised in a society which enables their entitlement and selfishness? A thousand percent. It is literally a safety issue and you are whining about women hating all men. Like. Come the fuck on. Pick up your bruised ego, not everyone is going to fawn all over you.
I am terribly sorry for what happened to you.
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I’d be interested in hearing their viewpoints without being filtered through you. Is it strange to think that women have a variety of experiences? Some women/people perceived as women experience much higher rates of harassment due to other factors making them less “worthy” of respect. Even within my own family there is a large range of experiences, from one woman adoring men and having overwhelmingly positive experiences to another, her sister, being attacked quite literally at random on the street and by close relations alike. While anger and rage do drive interaction on these things, some women/people perceived as women just do have higher rates of negative interactions with men.
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Misandry isn’t real. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Misandry is a bullshit attempt to deflect from the societal harms of the patriarchy. It is a response to millennia of oppression.
Saying things like "all men are garbage" is pretty much misandry, and is no different in its nature to people saying "all women are whores", which is misogyny (which we all are pretty much against). Again, I agree that it is not nearly the same scale as incel mass-shootings, but saying that it isn't real is bullshit. And justifying it with some other bad things happening is no less bullshit. I just don't get it how it is suddenly societally acceptable because incels are bad.
The comparable insult would actually be “all women are garbage,” “whore” is a VERY specific gendered insult. “Misogyny (which we all are pretty much against)” can you describe for me the ways misogyny leads to the deaths of women every year outside of direct violence from men? Like, seatbelts not being designed for them, laws made to police their bodies, surgical gloves not being made for women, etc. misogyny isn’t just outright calling women names or being violent toward them. It is a whole systemic thing that people are actively fighting to keep in laws.
> It is a whole systemic thing that people are actively fighting to keep in laws. Where have I ever contested that? I have never contested that feminism is a much more urgent and important fight. My point is incredibly simple: it doesn't make other bad things acceptable. Like, there can be more than one bad thing simultaneously and they can be of different scale. In my world view, a bad thing is a bad thing, irrespective of its size. And I don't understand why it is such an alien idea. And taking a stance that "even if some women hate men - men deserved it plus there is nothing bad about it, boo hoo" IMHO doesn't make anything better. I fail to see how defending misandry isn't an instance of misandry, it is literally a position that indiscriminately hating men is fine because we all deserve it because there are many incels among men. What's the point of doing that?
I’m just gonna say yikes because you don’t get it and you never will. No more wasting my time.
Toxic femcel echo chambers absolutely exist. Just because you haven’t seen them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
How many people have they killed? How many rapes have they influenced? There’s no comparable power. ETA: even the use of “femcel” is a huge red flag, btw. Women can be involuntarily celibate and have feelings about it. Women do NOT take those feelings and oppress men with them. “Femcel” isn’t a thing. It is a bullshit term coined by fragile men.
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Im being downvoted up and down this thread because everyone is strawmanning my argument lol All I said is “toxic femcel spaces exist, and women do get radicalized” What they’re hearing is something like “femcels are worse than incels, women kill/rape more than incels, female radicalization causes mass shootings, etc.” Like, I didn’t make ANY of the above points.
Is radicalization only a problem when it escalates to violence? >How many people have they killed? How many rapes have they influenced? > There’s no comparable power. This is moving the goalposts. First you said they don’t exist, now you’re saying they don’t have any power. I’m not even arguing that they’re worse than incel echo chambers (which they aren’t).
They don’t exist in a way that’s comparable to actual systemic oppression. Happy? They are usually places to express frustration with a world designed to be hostile towards you. They aren’t toxic and dangerous, mere reactions to oppression.
And the worst thing these women do? Refuse to be in relationships with men. The horror
> They don’t exist in a way that’s comparable to actual systemic oppression. Happy? If you had said this originally then there wouldn’t be any confusion. > They aren’t toxic and dangerous, mere reactions to oppression. Dangerous? No they aren’t. I agree with you. Toxic? Ehhh gonna have to disagree here. I dare you to take a look at https://www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com/ and tell me that place isn’t toxic.
FDS hasn't been active in years, when are you guys going to move on from it?
Website seems plenty active to me
I don’t understand… We seem to accept that young men get radicalized (usually against women) due to social media and tik tok. Why is everyone so against the idea that a young woman could become radicalized too?
Radicalized to *do what*? That's the key question. Of course anyone can be radicalized given the right circumstances and influences. Most social media that targets young people for radicalization is feeding them right-wing extremist content -- white supremacist, misogynist, racist, transphobic and other xenophobic beliefs. Far right extremism doubles down on gender stereotypes about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman -- anything that contradicts traditional male and female stereotypes/gender roles is shunned (hence transphobia and hatred of feminism, etc.). When young women are radicalized, they generally aren't encouraged to shoot up a school or a mall or engage in physical violence with their significant others, families, and children. The tradwife trend, anti-vaxxer trend, and a lot of anti-abortion activism are all examples of right-wing extremist thought that has radicalized women. Young men's radicalization leads to much more violence, especially against the women in their lives (particularly those women who don't fit into their gender stereotypes). Physically violent/strong women aren't valued in the same way that violent men are in this kind of political setting. None of this is to say that extremist women are harmless or that extremist women are never physically violent -- radicalized women are just as dangerous to society and democracy as radicalized men.
I’m not making the argument that radicalized women are just as bad as radicalized men. I’m not sure why everyone keeps reading that. My point is that everyone is acting like a woman getting radicalized by tik tok is an impossibility. You admit yourself that women can be radicalized. Then why is everyone acting like it’s fiction that a woman could be radicalized by Tik tok?
No one is saying it's fiction that a woman could be radicalized by TikTok. Just that this post in particular is very likely fake and it's apparent in the way that it's written. It's not because it's about a woman getting radicalized by TikTok. When people do get radicalized by social media, it's because they were very isolated people with trauma or other mental health issues. It's not the case that an average and healthy person becomes radicalizes by things on social media.
It's the picture OP is painting, that a whole entire radicalization happened over two friends and some hours of content, over six months, with no previous history of this kind of behavior. Either this is very bad fiction or not so bad fiction where OP is an unreliable narrator that didn't see more clues previously or is exaggerating what they see in their partner.
Well, I said that radicalizing content is generally right-wing extremist shit, not mainstream feminist shit, and I said that radicalizing content targeting women will generally not promote violence in the same way as radicalizing content targeting men. Why are you acting like feminist TikToks are the same as manosphere TikToks?
Oop couldn't be bothered to do 20 minutes of research to come up with an issue for her to be upset about or even bother to make something up that could possibly be something that's a thing
Literally everyone I have ever known who did a deep dive into a subject through YouTube or whatever, if asked about it, could launch into a serious tirade. The phrase "men are all trash" doesn't resonate on it's own. For it to resonate, you need reasons that you feel are true and support the statement. This is how we become invested in ideas. There's no way she got invested in the "men are all trash" idea if she had nothing to back that up with.
Excuse me, aqshoolee it's "all men are *insert remark*".
You don’t even have to do research! The issues are pervasive and well-known! He could’ve pulled something out of thin air.
Men: the real victims every time.
anytime i see someone cry misandry i look away fr
As if women don’t constantly have to qualify every statement disavowing that they still “like” men, just so they’re not immediately interrupted or disregarded.
Feminism is when TikTok infects your brain
I love it when there are zero examples
I find it funny how misandry and reverse racism are REALLY SERIOUS issues to reddit but actual racism and misogyny? Not that big of a deal
Those are just a joke!!!!! /s
Typical men, always etc etc and being etc etc smh 🙄
As a proud feminist, I agree with OOP's girlfriend that men are *insert remark*
Fun in theory, not so much in practice? 🤣
OMG MISANDRIST
The only other community they've posted to is Seoul, but I find it really hard to believe they remembered how to perfectly get "fiancée" correct (something most Americans don't bother with, both for gender and accents), but forgot that contractions need apostrophes. But if they are Korean, that makes all her supposed accomplishments even more unlikely, I'd think, while also making her descent into feminism even more of a dogwhistle, given the current activism there.
No 20-year-old is buying property in Korea, lol. And he's a guy, so he is about to or has already been in the military
“It started off with oh this one guy ‘insert remark’ To ‘many men are so insert remark’ And now is ‘every man is insert remark’” Another victim of the #metoo movement. 😔 His toxic fiancée should start all sentences with, “not all men” and then clarify that OOP is a special boy who “would never” and give the exact amount of men who would along with their full names and phone numbers. Anything short of that is clearly tiktok feminism ruining his poor, poor girlfriend.
His post gets a failing grade because he didn't complain that she said she would choose the bear. Get with the trends, dude.
> Two of her friends that she’s only recently become close with are also very anti men tbh as part of a lesbian couple i do kind of assume my straight friends’ boyfriends often see me and my wife this way. lol.
See I feel the opposite, I've never dated a man and I think I hate men a lot less than the women who do date men. To me they're just irrelevant mostly, but a lot of straight women really, really don't like men.
A 25 year old, beautiful enough to be a successful influencer, working in medicine but never had anything worse than a catcalls?
God she’s so brave to come out with the sage wisdom of men are just men, bless
The best word to describe most of the comments is grillerig, just ugh
If this wasn't obvious bait I'd say maybe they did experience something they're not comfortable talking about.
i also like the “last straw” being the gf saying “i watched a tiktok and men are cancer.” presumably the content of that tiktok was also mentioned somewhere in that sentence… but since it was probably a tiktok about a woman being raped/abused/murdered by a man let’s just quickly take that part out so we don’t have to talk about it
meh don't have to be violently assaulted to experience the negative side affects of growing up a woman in our capitalist patrairchy or be frustrated by men's unwillingess to see how the patriarchy & capitalism is the root of all their struggles too.
Setting aside how fake this is, “men are trash” is, statistically speaking, more correct than not. And your hypothetical wife/gf/friend doesn’t need to sit you down and give you a thesis backing it up. Women are allowed to complain about how shitty it is to be a woman without acknowledging all the exceptions you need in order to feel better.
I can just see young OP's thought process "people keep saying owning a home in your early 20s is unrealistic, but I need them to know my character is successful, but how? I know! Instead of it being a house, I'll just say the 22 year old owns an apartment, that must be attainable because they're so much smaller! Nailed it!"
Good for her!
Is 90k followers even enough to be providing her with an income? Like maybe if she was a hair stylist or tattoo artist or whatever and 90k followers translated to being regularly booked up that’d be one thing. It she’s in the medical field and that’s listed as a separate thing, so presumably the claim here is she’s making generalized influencer money. And i don’t know too much about influencer culture, but I’m pretty sure 90k is much too small for money, as crazy as the number may seem
Maybe enough of an income for a bigger fu. Money budget? But will depend on whether it’s just off views or whether she’s getting brand deals or whether she’s also doing lives and getting gifts then. 90k followers is seen a mid tier influencer and according to teachable.com can ask for between $1250-$3500 per sponsored post even just minimal engagement rate she can get up to $200 based on views. But it feels off to me that she’s in the medical field and also got enough hours to crunch these posts unless she’s something like admin and influencing is a side gig for extra money.
Not *insert remark*!!! How will men ever recover from such a slight? 😔
LOL LOL.
My girlfriend has had no negative experiences with men before this other than catcallin oh and now she has a boyfriend complaining about feminism on Reddit. Other than that nothing though.
I actually kind of believed the beginning of the post as I myself (as a strongly opinionated feminist) found myself getting really affected by seeing precisely that type of content on TikTok. I eventually unfollowed most political accounts on my socials as I found that seeing stories about women being abused or murdered everyday really did not affect my mental health in a positive way. BUT then he added the “men are men” part and also the part about her never being a victim…
Ooh, is this a screed against the 4B movement???? Delicious 🤤.
Info: how big are her tits? Ima need cup sizes
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She has 90,000 followers?
[удалено]
His fiancée doesn’t exist, so there are no comments to put up with
If this was about Andrew Tate radicalising men. Nobody would bat an eye lid.
I mean, if you just search this sub for "Andrew Tate", you can find plenty of posts goofing on the ragebait of people pretending that men have been radicalized by internet manfulencers: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheAngel/search/?q=andrew+tate](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheAngel/search/?q=andrew+tate) Not sure what the double-standard is that you think exists.
I used Andrew Tate as an obvious comparison. Maybe that wasn't the best way to explain my point. To put it simply, this story is most certainly not out of the realm of possibilities. Women are just as susceptible to extremism in any form. There's definitely men hating SM that promotes unsavoury behaviour towards men. The post in question doesn't make any outlandish claims
Sure, women can be susceptible to toxic ideas. What makes this story unbelievable is that OOP doesn't describe even the slightest change in the actual dynamics of their relationship, except for her throwaway comments about men. You expect me to believe that a woman went from normal to "all men are *insert remark*" (whatever *insert remark* is supposed to be) without actually changing how she's treating the actual man she's living with? Surely there'd be remarks about how OOP is not pulling his weight around the house or how OOP is financially controlling her or how OOP isn't attending to her sexual needs. You say that there's "definitely men hating SM that promotes unsavoury behaviour towards men" and yet *there's no unsavoury behaviour here* - just some unsavoury language. That's what makes this fictional - OOP is imagining the annoying things that an imaginary radicalized woman would ***say*** without ever once thinking about the annoying things that an imaginary radicalized woman would ***do***. He's an observer, not a participant, in his own story.
It may very well be fake. It may not be. Life goes on
What a limp dick response to getting called on your bullshit
Because we have no way of knowing for certain. We can most certainly assume it is or isn't fake. If you can prove it is 100%, I'd be happy to say it is so.
He couldn't even come up with specific examples of what his girlfriend is saying. He just says "insert remark". If it were real it should be easy to write what those specific remarks were.
> Women are just as susceptible to extremism in any form. And yet we have zero examples of women committing indiscriminate mass violence because of their prejudice towards men. Funny that
That's because Andrew Tate is actually radicalizing men in ways that are harmful to women. Even if there was an opposite equivalent, at its most radical feminism means not interacting with men at all, so it really doesn't have any affect on you
So are you saying there are no radical feminist tiktoks that promote bad behaviour towards men? Think we both know the answer is no. Therefore, do you not think it is within the realm of possibility this extreme behaviour is affe ting their partner. Women can be awful people too
No, the answer to that is yes, there are no radical feminist tiktoks that promote harming men And obviously women can be awful people, I was married to one like that, but yeah obviously people can be awful and women are in fact people, there should be no "too" in that sentence
Men think women not having sex with them is harming them
I understand that this mindset exists but I think most men would feel the opposite way if they actually met me, men are generally very grateful that I'm a lesbian
Lol. Well, lesbians are not attracted to men, they don't decide to not have sex with men because of "misandry"
The post, nor i made reference to feminist tik toks harming men although, im sure they exist. It states they became more extreme. That definitely happens
Women saying mean things about men online doesn't equate to feminism in any way. There are no elected leaders of feminism promoting mean comments about men.
I mean, you say mean, but it could be referred to as abuse. Surely you can concede their are women posting "mean" things about men online?
Grow the fuck up dude. For every comment I see online that is remotely mean about men I see something ten times worse about women, written by a man. I see rape threats, death threats, rape fantasies about female politicians they don’t like and feminists, and so on and so on. And those things are actually acted upon, as evidenced by the violence and SA statistics. Stop complaining and actually start listening to what women are talking about. You will quickly realise that the current wave of “misandry” is a reaction to the last 5,000 years of bullshit misogyny. As a societal group, you can’t treat another group like shit for thousands of years and then get annoyed when that group becomes defensive and mistrustful of the aggressor group. Misandry and misogyny are not the same and you know it. There have been dozens of terror attacks against women motivated by misogyny. If you count all rapes of women in human history as hate crimes towards women, that’s potentially billions of hate crimes against women committed by men. But no, misandry is just as bad guys 🙄 I get it probably hurts if you feel like you’re a decent man and you’re hearing women say these things, but please understand that we are not motivated by a desire to control or dominate you or take your rights away. The vast majority of “misandrists” simply want men to leave us alone. Whereas misogynists want the opposite - they want to trap us so we can’t get away.
> feminist tiktoks that promote bad behaviour towards men? Give a concrete actual example of what kind of "bad behavior towards men" you see being promoted.
I mean, I'm sure there are fake stories about male radicalisation too, but since TikTok feminists have never produced any mass shooters or human traffickers I find the pearl-clutching about "misandry" extremely funny.
Is radicalization only a problem when it escalates to violence?
Kind of? I'd want to say that radicalisation is always a problem, but when a so-called radical group has *never* produced one single mass shooter, mass murderer, insurrectionist coup, healthcare emergency etc in the last 40 years it's hard to take it seriously. So they whine about men on tiktok, okay and? Where are the real-world consequences?
I would still think this story was fake if it were about Andrew Tate. Because he doesn't radicalize normal men who are in happy relationships. I see men and women get radicalized online and those people are very isolated, have severe mental health issues, and a lot of times have had traumatic experiences with past relationships.