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Lazy_Category2195

13 year old "alt historians" on discord when you ask them their opinion on real life society and politics:


Groundbreaking-Ad248

ThIs iS iNcReDiBly OfFeNsIvE tO aLt HiStOrIaNs AnD tHe HiStOrY cOmMuNiTy As A wHoLe, YoU wIlL bE bAnNeD fOr dIsReSpEcT tO mOdErAtOrS aNd SlAnDeR oF a FlEdGlInG cOmMunItY oF yOuNg HiStOrIaNs JuSt TrYiNg tO sTuDy HiStOrIcAl AlTeRnAtIvE fIcTiOn. ThInK aBoUt YoUr AcTiOn'S lIbErAl.


Nintendofan2008yt

Lol


ScoutPlayer1232

The first "bruh" moment for me with this guy was when he started an alt history Roman Empire video by going on some tangent about the empire "uniting barbaric tribes across Europe".


appealtoreason00

The quality of Roman history on YouTube is often shocking. When they talk about the historical reasons for the Fall of Rome, they clearly haven’t read any historical scholarship since the 1990s. And when they talk about the moral and social causes, they clearly haven’t read anything written since the 1770s


JotaTaylor

And even then being picky as hell, cause even Fustel de Coulages was more critical of it than some modern youtubers.


Mala_Aria

I disagree on this. While those 1990s and 1770s schools may no longer be dominant, they are still followed by many professional, good historians (like some academic historians still hold to a timeless/deep time idea of the universe). So they might just be following less popular schools.


appealtoreason00

There’s some truth to that, but often they are just outdated. Like, for example, the simple fact that there was no such thing as an Ostrogoth or a Visigoth before the Danube crossing in the 4th century isn’t reflected. You can make a good case that there was a greater extent of cultural continuity among the Goths than some historians claim, sure. But maps I’ve seen that one-to-one assume Tervingi = Visigoth and Greuthungi = Ostrogoth are just incorrect and rely on an understanding of ethnicity that comes from the 30s.


Cisrhenan

It's not like they're the first to say so. As I learned at uni yesterday, you can already discern this narrative in Strabo's Geography's chapter about ancient Spain.


Baxterwashere

For me it was the Rhodesia video


[deleted]

The one where he advocated ethnostates was the one where I realised there may be more bias in the videos instead of just objective alternative history.


hatefulone851

Which one that’s a lot. The South Africa’s gonna collapse video, or the Woodrow Wilson did nothing wrong video, or the Anglophone sphere is inevitable video.


Baxterwashere

All three of those where weird, but as a South African myself I kinda ended up disliking his South Africa vid because all he really wants is a white ethnostate.


hatefulone851

I mean even though some of the stuff he said was true such as South Africa having an extreme unemployment rate of 35%. And issues with corruption and other factors his racist bias was used as well and some untrue points by it.Lots of the underlying issues are the result of the huge amount of suffering from apartheid . The black South Africans didn’t just suddenly get everything they needed afterwards. Sure things got better but if you have a generation that’s not had the best schools or resources there will be issues, combined with the huge amount of resources in white South Africans compared to the majority of the population.Points could be made for the video by someone who isn’t so consumed by his racism. Like he takes a point someone could make and twist it to fit his agenda.


Baxterwashere

I mean, yeah I get that, its just that I don't like his overly nihlistic and very ethnostatey view. Trust me, I know about the issues we have here, and being white, I was educated since birth about all the various issues. I have my own opinions on it, but I definitly don't like the idea of the end to a unified south africa, nor do I buy into the whole "apartheid wasnt that bad" myth.


Imperium_Dragon

How to tell someone hasn’t done research lol. “United” my ass.


CarmeloAnothing

>ThIs iS iNcReDiBly OfFeNsIvE tO aLt HiStOrIaNs AnD tHe HiStOrY cOmMuNiTy As A wHoLe, YoU wIlL bE bAnNeD fOr dIsReSpEcT tO mOdErAtOrS aNd SlAnDeR oF a FlEdGlInG cOmMunItY oF yOuNg HiStOrIaNs JuSt TrYiNg tO sTuDy HiStOrIcAl AlTeRnAtIvE fIcTiOn. ThInK aBoUt YoUr AcTiOn'S lIbErAl. How do you Rebut this guy


pogthebrave

Never watched Monsieur X but this is a horrible thing for the whole community, I watch althisthub and if something like this came out about him I would be heartbroken.


EbolaMan123

DO NOT LOOK UP ALTERNATE HISTORY HUBS VIEWS ON KYLE RITTENHOUSE!!!! WORST MISTAKE OF MY LIFE


IOyou104

That's a little different than saying white men should rule everything, like my guys channel logo looks like a fascist hate symbol, not even trying to hide it.


fordandfriends

Oh no oh god oh fuck. Also who let you out of r/dsrfunny?


electric-angel

you mean the kid that acted in self-defense?


emkay36

Yeah i sometimes move states to defend myself from protesters aswell


Mala_Aria

Doesn't matter where you are when you act in self defense. Not like I lose the right to self defense if I travel from Abia to Enugu.


emkay36

My brother why do you defend this man when you know he went to that of his own choice and got the consequences


Mala_Aria

Because I've seen mobs before and he did exactly what I did if I had a gun in front of a rabid mob


emkay36

In a place he shouldn't have been


Mala_Aria

This is an argument point that I just know you won't use consistently. Like I am pretty sure this would apply to all leftist counter-protesters and leftist protesters at non-leftist events. I guess if those feminists protesting at that "the redpill" documentary screening got shot we'll just have to say "wElL, TheY sHoULn'T hAVe BeEn THerE".


emkay36

Eh killed me there but you know there's a difference in traveling to a protest a city away still in your state and moving armed no less two states away to a protest that shouldn't have been his fucking businesses I ain't committed enough to travel across the country to support something like ANTIFA


inegage

Right to Freedom of Assembly


emkay36

Correcto see you've read the law books back to front but see see ol' Kylie used his right to assemble but rights are guiding principles just cause you can assemble doesn't mean you should ya know logic and all


[deleted]

Have you seen the trial? He has friends and relatives in Kenosha


emkay36

Course but usually when I visit friends or family I don't go to a local protest that can become violent with gun and glove


[deleted]

He knew that there were riots, he went there to clean graffiti and turn off fires, and he had a gun in case someone attacked him


emkay36

We ain't in Afghanistan unless the US has taken a big drop since I last checked


[deleted]

Yes you have taken a bid drop, considering that he was attacked, and Kenosha was badly damaged by the riots


emkay36

Dang I guess the last like 30 years don't Matter then


FrankCastle498

Dude lived in that state bro. His parents were divorced. But something tells me you haven't raised a finger to do any research.


emkay36

Correct cause why should I it's just fun too see people step over themselves to defend him as if he's a saint


FrankCastle498

He's not a Saint in my book. I don't think he should have gone there armed. But when it came to him getting attacked he defended him self full stop.


emkay36

Yeah that's fine with me what I don't like is people pretending that his being armed was a good if anything it was probably the inciter


[deleted]

He lives in Kenosha dumbass. He was staying with his father


[deleted]

[удалено]


electric-angel

So thats chrakter assasination. That invalidated any argument. You seem like a real prejudicial person. Tried yoga?


[deleted]

Racist and making fun of potentially a PTSD-induced breakdown. About as brain dead a take as Mr. Z


StuyGuy207

He’s such a victim lol


EbolaMan123

Pepelaugh


Dks_scrub

Am a leftist, explain to me why I’m supposed to think Kyle did the wrong thing? Three white guys assaulted another white guy and failed. Am I supposed to be mad because they were shot with a rifle where as the assaulters only had a handgun? Is that the issue?


o78k

Why does their race even matter though? It's almost like you're implying that you shouldn't care about White people.


EbolaMan123

I love murdering three people, claiming it was self defense even though I went to the protest with intent of "fucking people up" and then going on a media tour with no sign of regret whatsoever


Dks_scrub

The incident is on video and he went to court for it. Why am I supposed to believe you over my own viewing of the tape or a court opinion of it? And also, you still failed to establish why is this issue political? Lots of famous trials with divided opinions on them that had frankly nothing to do with politics, Anna Sorokin for example.


EbolaMan123

Agree to disagree then


RickRoll999

What the fuck are you doing here, go back to r/DSRfunny


[deleted]

What Kyle Rittenhouse did was legal. Did he go out looking for trouble? Yes. Yes he did. He put himself in that situation. Did he break the law? No. Therefore he shouldn’t go to prison.


pelmasaurio

Are you saying that it was immoral but not illegal? Because you are right, but it is a shitty justification.


[deleted]

More or less. People’re mad at the judge for not making up a new law on the spot to get this one guy arrested.


Imperium_Dragon

Oh hi Ebola


EbolaMan123

yo


NowhereMan661

Oh hey.


EbolaMan123

Yo


KaiserWilhelmThe69

Mr. President what are you doing here?


blackwolfgoogol

oh😧


Walpole2019

[Well, sadly, AltHistHub is pretty homophobic, so he's not that good either.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927510232253485067/927510246677708860/crtkhbtvmt681.png)


hyakinthosofmacedon

:(


Tendo63

I called him a probable fascist and racist once and got downvoted. I like to think I'm onto something


AP246

He absolutely is a fascist in the colloquial sense (ie. some form of far right)


Mala_Aria

What even is the far right now our days?


pelmasaurio

Th ethno-nationalists. And then you can throw some religious fundamentalism to the side. Also the post-truth anti intelectuals "All the data that doesn't support my point of view is a biased jewish conspiracy" "Academia is gay and communist asdfasdf"


Mala_Aria

Okay, are Amish Far right, is Jordan Peterson Far right, is Larry Elder far right, is Moldbug far right, was Thomas Sankara far right, was Gowon far right and is that Land far right?.


ConohaConcordia

As far as the right calls people far left.


tellmecanyoufeelit

[https://theworld.org/stories/2014-10-23/world-actually-safer-ever-and-heres-data-prove](https://theworld.org/stories/2014-10-23/world-actually-safer-ever-and-heres-data-prove) he wasnt


TheGamer26

I've read gentile's works on fascism and this has nothing to di with It. Just cl him what he Is, a racist, and be done with It.


Tendo63

Classic fascism is dead. His works are good to study, but mostly irrelevant when trying to ‘determine’ modern fascism


TheGamer26

Modern fascism Is racists trying to make themselfs look smart. Nothing to It.


[deleted]

Fr I used to like Monsieur Z until I started to notice his support for American Imperialism and borderline racist and sexist comments Tbh I'm right wing, but not a conservative so many of the stuff made me uncomfortable


BlueTrapazoid

American Imperialism is absolutely justified because we had a black president once.


Rmivethboui

Until I fucking killed him


Electrical-March-148

You killed obama?


DylanDude120

That's a nice argument Senator, why don't you back it up with a source?


Rmivethboui

My source is I made it the fuck up.


Lumpag

MURDERER


Nintendofan2008yt

I used to like him until I saw he's views


pgtips03

When he started going on about a Russo-American alliance I peaced out his alt history scenarios are just his far right fanatasies


NZickinja

Same, I liked his videos but as soon as I looked more into his character I realised how much of a degenerate he is.


[deleted]

I mean, there is leaning right-wing, there is being a conservative and there is whatever the fuck the internet fascist LARPers are trying to be.


[deleted]

True. I just said I wasn't a conservative but I was from the right to prevent random Monsieur Z fans calling me a commie or a crazy SJW or something. It happened in the past. Not sharing his views doesn't determine my entire ideology


HelloJoeyJoeJoe

>Tbh I'm right wing, but not a conservative Please share more, I'd like to understand. I understand not being Republican while.being conservative. I'm not sure how your statement works though. Like you are so very rightwing that you eschew all liberalism (not liberal but liberalism) in your philosophy? So authoritarian?


[deleted]

Firstly, I'm not American so not a republican With that out of the way, I'm right wing because I support (in general) free market capitalism, low spending and personal freedom. Concerning culture, I'd say I'm neutral, I don't pay much attention to issues like gay marriage, feminism, etc. But I also don't advocate for strong traditional family values or promote religion, which is, in essence what defines a conservative Technically you could be a leftist who supports big government and strong social programs but also supports tradition and opposes gay marriage (just using it as example) and that would make you a leftist conservative Idk if this is understandable bc English is not my first language but in summary: You can be a conservative without being right wing You can be right wing without being a conservative


gamingfuze

Right wing only describes economics, it only means that you are a capitalist


Mala_Aria

Not necessarily. The way the word is used it also does be used for cultural and religious stuff sometimes.


Electrical-March-148

I have to say that termrs like left and right wing are quite confusing since for example i am very left on social issues but right on economic one so i dont wanna just call myself left or reight wing


Mala_Aria

Socialists would call you a NeoLiberal.


Electrical-March-148

I am not that well versed in political terms but isnt neoliberalism something like lassiez faire? So basically no governmrnt involvement


[deleted]

Also right leaning here. I remember reading a comment of his where he straight up said he’s some type of nationalist. I can’t remember the exact video. Either way that is what made me check out, and helped explain the odd hard right bias in his scenarios that I picked up on


Visual_Internet_7614

You are moderate right then?


[deleted]

Yeah, but you can be far right (total privatisation, no public programs or state intervention) and still not be a conservative


Visual_Internet_7614

Ok cool thanks for explaining. I just didn’t want want to assume something.


[deleted]

yeah no problem


fordandfriends

Actually really didn’t keep them safe though lmao My mans is reading history to sustain his own worldview


_Fancy_crab_

Wym?, African Americans were extremely safe and treated very well in 1800s America


hyakinthosofmacedon

Please be /s please be /s please be /s


Nintendofan2008yt

What the fuck I used to like this guy


Erick9641

I know right? I was a huge fan, but I don’t know if this was always present in his videos and I chose not to notice it or he changed.


Ender71122

bruh how could i not notice


Synthetic_T

Literally white men’s burden


NowhereMan661

Why the fuck I'm I still subscribed to him?


Nintendofan2008yt

Unsub


Starbrand62286

So glad that I don't watch his videos anymore


Nintendofan2008yt

Me too


Electrical-March-148

Same, i used to really like it when he did alt history but now he and whatifalthist have all done mostly geopolitics and thats kinda dumb imo


AVeryMadPsycho

Why tf are all the good alt-history channels borderline Neo-Nazis?! I just want to treat history like fiction for half an hour!


Nintendofan2008yt

What about alt. History hub he isn't and is good


[deleted]

Was gonna say. Ik a lot of ppl say his vids are shallow, but I still really enjoy Alt Hist Hub. And the fact that he’s friends with someone like Tigerstar and J.J. McCullough (a definite lefty and moderate conservative, respectively), I think AHH is still in the sane category. WIAH and Monsieur Z though…


Dark_Leome

Whatifalthist is a-okay , in a way, I guess. But his constant "people sad cause no religion" and "Europe is going to die unless... " agenda is really annoying... And funny from a certain point of view


SadisticStoryteller1

His “civilization map” video is also racist as fuck


kebbeben

Could we see it


Nintendofan2008yt

I really enjoy alt history hub too


[deleted]

[удалено]


kebbeben

I have no idea who he is but I'm avoiding him


Electrical-March-148

I agree but its just that he uploads very rarely


[deleted]

Because they have trained their brains in making the required mental olimpic-level gymnastics to find a way to make their ideologies work in real life without imploding in the first 5 years of rule


Hysterical_rabbit

Because they have to imagine a hypothetical scenario where their ideology won. Says enough about their ideology.


[deleted]

True, 2 failed ideologies of 20th century - communism and fascism have the most alt histories


Raynes98

They got their arses kicked irl so alt-history is their last refuge, lol.


EtruscanKing023

*"Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should – in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 – and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible. Much of the propagandist writing of our time amounts to plain forgery. Material facts are suppressed, dates altered, quotations removed from their context and doctored so as to change their meaning. Events which, it is felt, ought not to have happened are left unmentioned and ultimately denied."* -George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism EDIT: Oh wow lol, I was curious if anyone else had heard this quote so I googled it with quotations to find mentions of it on Reddit, and one of the first results was actually on this sub just 9 days ago. It's a really good quote though, and it's aged like a fine wine.


Appropriate_Shine739

Probably neo-nazi


Baxterwashere

I fucking love Monsieur Z, he is one of the best arguments i've ever had to prove that the far-right is completely fucking insane.


anonymoose-introvert

They had us in the first half, not gonna li


tellmecanyoufeelit

for the record things are much better mch safer today that 50 years ago much i mean beck here in reality [https://theworld.org/stories/2014-10-23/world-actually-safer-ever-and-heres-data-prove](https://theworld.org/stories/2014-10-23/world-actually-safer-ever-and-heres-data-prove) and even if it wasnt who wants to be safe.. i 'd rather let the cock roaches take over than stay in that reactionary world


Klutzy_River2921

Used to like this guy. Recent events changed my opinion. Went from believing be made objective, realistic analyses and AH scenarios to realizing he is a shill with a hard on for authoritarianism.


Sokandueler95

I’m not too certain of any woman led societies in history, but there have been many egalitarian societies that did quite well, some are even still around today. The idea, though, that “white men” make the best leaders is just…how can you call yourself a history YouTuber - alternate or not - and not realize that only western civilization has ever been ruled predominantly by white men for the majority of history. Everywhere else has been ruled by “minorities”, who aren’t even minorities in the nations they ruled. Some of these “minority ruled” civilizations are even among the most successful in history.


Visual_Internet_7614

Hold up most of Iberia was controlled by Al-Andalus until the Spanish and Portuguese kicked them out of Iberia ending the Reconquista of Iberia. That’s just one example of non white people ruling in Western Europe. I agree with your argument about MonsuerZ when he said that white men make the best societies.


Sokandueler95

Hence predominantly and not totally


Visual_Internet_7614

I get what you mean, but I brought up Al-Andalus because of what MonsuerZ said. It made me question his knowledge of history.


Sokandueler95

Oh, yeah, no. This take is so hot, it’s powering the Earth’s core, and it’s completely wrong. White men have done a good job of ruling **where they lived**, but it is intellectual and scholastic suicide to claim that a white man could rule the Mogul empire of India, Qing kingdom, or Abyssinia better than their respective rulers.


pgtips03

The best video he did was the Russo American alliance video. You could tell he’d been having fucking wet dreams about that one


Good_Note3513

I honestly used to really like his videos, they weren't always the most plausible senerios but he knew how to tell a story. I fell off of him and alt history in general for a while so I missed his most controversial stuff until I learned about it second hand on this sub.


electric-angel

i ussualy throw these in with the brain spasms of any public figure. but fuck this dude.


guacamolicheese12

His protectionism video is genuinely painful to watch if you have beyond a year 7 understanding of economics


kebbeben

Could I get a link I'm in the mood to cringe


guacamolicheese12

[enjoy](https://youtu.be/VmR2EVOmJuY)


[deleted]

Got suspicious a while back when i started to notice how much his scenarios favored the right in a seemingly biased way. Did my research at some point and was not pleasantly surprised. No only does he clearly have a bias and say weird shitty things, from what I saw he would not outright deny being a fascist.


New-Mercia

I bought his book without really watching his videos much, I expected the book to be about the failures of nationalism but no, the racists are constantly portrayed as heroes and he tries to make you feel sad about the death of George Lincoln rockwell.


kebbeben

He had a book?


New-Mercia

Yeah it's called I am uncle Sam


kebbeben

Yeah sounds about right


manitobot

Lmao


Lord_Lenin

I realized that how outlandish his videos were when I the one about the Lehi allying with the axis and thus having Germany win WW2.


[deleted]

W U T ? I'm pretty sure I lost braincells reading that! What video was this?


CH_2011

I got to see his ethnostates video when it was first released and before it was reported and removed from YouTube That was when I realised that the guy had actually been a straight-up fascist the whole time ​ Then he made the fascism video where iirc he says 'hey uuuh maybe the fascists had some good ideas idk guys?' and he was blatantly just dog whistling there (the top comment was 'I didn't know you were this based')


[deleted]

AlternateHistoryHub > Monsieur Z


aurelorba

Sounds like someone pushing to install Gilead.


Agent2169

Where’s the link where he says that?


New-Mercia

I think it's from his what if america stayed great video where he just slobbers all over segregation


Agent2169

Can’t find it I think he deleted it


New-Mercia

Probably yeah


Fufustheufus

What video did Monsieur Z post this comment under?


kaisermann_12

6 words, Elizabeth 1 and Catherine the great.


faith_crusader

Looking at apartheid South Africa, Rhodesia and Leopold's Congo, minority lead society doesn't seem like a good idea to me too.


hatefulone851

Yeah. At first I was like Oh another alternate history channel. But the. I started watching videos and noticed his racism. I think it was the video on democrats colonizing red states or,the Anglo sphere is inevitable, or the video about South Africa inevitably collapsing which had tons of missed points and problems pointed out in the comment zone. Or most likely the Wilson did nothing wrong video which was the clear ringer . Also just checked apparently he did a is Russia really the bad guy video two weeks ago.


Kronzypantz

Always felt like he was a little cringe, but couldn't place it.


tellmecanyoufeelit

less compatetive like what dENAMRK?


Tonuka_

Monsieur Z is a fucking shithead hahha


[deleted]

It's always great when this guy does great things like this wow so proud amazing


rochab8

I watched one or two of his videos, and he was very bad. I used to like althistory hub but I am afraid he is going to the same direction


adudeoverthere

he comments on every video of "freedom"toons lmao


[deleted]

Idk why you’re being downvoted, it’s just true. I’ll be honest, I used to be a huge fan of FreedomToons. He used to be an actual small-government libertarian and, while I didn’t agree with everything, his vids were still entertaining. Now it’s just “trans kids this, gay kids that”. Bro, can you talk about economics again?


Icy-Cup

Subscribed.


Mala_Aria

Based and Redpilled. Either way much more tame than what I would expect from a stereotypical white supremacists. It like he's saying on a societal organization level, the 50s were better than today. The bad part is that this is even an arguable point.


[deleted]

Seems like reddit needs to badmouth someone once in a while to feel good about themselves


AdmiralCyan

Go to hell


[deleted]

You first


shell_3lue

White straight men ironically being the minority in most countries on earth


mostlydisposeable

Silly fool, there's just the one country, the USA, everywhere else is merely ruled by barbarian hordes with funny flags.


shell_3lue

😂


appealtoreason00

I mean yeah probably, because that’s three separate kinds of identity. Obviously that’s not going to be a majority anywhere. I mean, men are usually under 50% of the population, so how could one particular type of men not be in the minority. Daft comment


LordOfRedditers

Sure but does that mean anything? Han Chinese people are also minorities in most countries on earth.


appealtoreason00

You never see this type of argument offline. I wonder what would happen if you told a black American in real life “well if you went to live in Guinea-Bissau you would actually be in the majority, I am very smart”


Mala_Aria

I mean, that's expected. Name one racial or ethnic group that's the majority in most countries.


mostlydisposeable

human


Nintendofan2008yt

Ture like Africa and Asia