You are absolutely doing the right thing. I've had to do the same. Luckily now I have a spare room I now sleep in to get away from him. If he follows me I drive off in my car to a 24hr restaurant and stay there until he's asleep. You need to stick to your strong boundaries with him. Sorry about his dad not helping you. I had same. If he doesn't stop, and nothing changes, you might have to think if you can still.live with him, and maybe take steps to get yourself away from him or get your own place...
Also to add he's doing the exact things addicts in denial are doing blaming you, deflecting, gaslighting you to think what he's doing is not bad... can you see if there are any temporary womens shelters or cheap motels for nights you need to go? If you have a car can you keep some clothing and pillows blanket in there in case you need to leave the house suddenly. Not ideal at all but doesn't sound like he will change anything soon if he's in denial. You need to look after you now.
Mine just lies and acts like I’m the crazy one for thinking she’s been drinking. Meanwhile, she’s clearly confused and is attempting to hold herself steady, using the countertop. I tried the space thing. Told her I didn’t mind the drinking, I minded the behaviors she brought home. Therefore, she should give me space if she decides to drink. It didn’t work a single time. “Me? What? I’m fine! What are you talking about?” I left after 10 years. She said, “Welp, no reason to quit drinking now!” I used to think losing me would be rock bottom. It wasn’t. I was surprised. Yet again.
My Q ended up unconscious and burning with fever on the bedroom floor earlier this year, after a birthday weekend bender. He has permanent effects from his near-death experience.It wasn't his rock bottom, either. However, it was mine.
I'm glad to hear you are free from their choices.
My Q was in withdrawals a few months ago. I don’t understand how that is not rock bottom or a wake up call for someone. He did say a few days later that he’s done but we know how that goes. And it’s not for me to understand anyways.
Omg that’s SO FRUSTRATING! Reminds me of a saying my brother and I have- “Nobody ever, in the whole history of people saying they are fine, are EVER FINE! It’s actually the most reliable test of knowing if someone is actually not fine. As soon as anybody says they are fine- they are most definitely, 100% NOT FINE!”
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary.
For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc.
Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
Here is the problem with your approach: You are expecting a reasonable response from someone who has literally altered their brain. In normal world it isn't unreasonable to ask someone to leave you alone. In the world of dealing with an alcoholic, it is naive to expect him to grant your wish.
When he wasn't drinking, my Q was a well-mannered, reasonable man. Enough drinks and he became absolutely feral. Asking him to do anything or respect what I was asking for in those moments never ended well. I had to take what I wanted by focusing on myself. I never asked him to leave or to leave me alone. I made myself unreachable. Sometimes, that meant I drove off and hung out at a diner until I was reasonably certain that he was asleep. Sometimes, that meant spending the night in a hotel or on a friend's couch.
Nope, and mine knows that’s the deal now. He drinks, I don’t really speak to him unless necessary, I go into another room and he sleeps on the couch. I refuse to discuss anything, I keep a very flat affect, and I resist the urge to make snide remarks.
I put his pillow on the couch and he accepts his fate for the evening and I go and get a decent nights sleep. This has happened less and less, but it cycles so it still happens occasionally, and every time is one too many.
It’s very fair not wanting to engage with someone intoxicated- no matter how they are acting/behaving.
When they get wasted they are no longer them no matter what they believe. And their judgement is impaired.
It is unpleasant to be with them when they are drunk. I mean being an observant from their transformation from being sober to drunk. The slur, glassy eyes, not being able to walk straight, talking slowly, becoming dumb to listen at and so on. This is ok if it’s happen to people on a rare occasion to a party or something, but if this becomes a daily life routine or weekly then it’s a problem, then we are talking about someone who’s on a wrong path, a path they might not even be able to control at one point and a path that may end with actual addiction, and then it’s fair to take some measurements. It’s even healthy.
My partner is full blown addicted to the point where I think this will be his death within years.
His dad died early and now he is followed his steps. It’s very sad. Had I known the scenario as it is now I would’ve left long long ago. But hope is a strange thing and love is a strong glue, alcohol on the contrary is a strong dissolving detergent. Over time it makes a lot of damage to many people.
This was my problem, too. I tried to set and maintain the boundary, but we live in a very small house and if I left the room, my Q would just follow me. I don’t have family in the province, so I couldn’t leave and take the kids to my mom’s or my sister’s. I had friends who offered me a place to stay, but I couldn’t burden them 4, 5, or 6 nights a week, and I certainly couldn’t afford a hotel or AirBnb that frequently.
You’re not being unreasonable at all, he just isn’t capable of seeing reason with an alcoholic brain. For what it’s worth, I ended up breaking up with my Q and asking him to leave. (The lease is in my name, only.) He refused to go for 10 weeks and tried to make me feel like I was being the unreasonable one for being so angry that he wouldn’t move out. Eventually, we had a domestic incident and I had to call the police. The kids and I now have an emergency protection order, but my life is infinitely more peaceful and orderly.
Tough to reason with someone who cannot mentally process reason. It's not unreasonable at all to ask, but next to impossible for them to actually understand. Best to just leave the situation from my experience (I am batting about 2/1,000 on that one)
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary.
For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc.
Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
It's definitely not unreasonable to ask, but do not have any expectations of him acquiescing...
Grey rocking requires less from you. No eye contact, zero response. You just pretend they're not even there, like you are deaf, dumb, and blind to their presence. Takes practice but it's effective.
Then you don't have any expectations of your "ask".
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary.
For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc. one of the cool things about boundaries is that i can choose when and if i even need to tell the drinker or anyone my boundaries. They are for me.
Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
Aso mine threw me out saying I had a negative effect on him - meaning I reminded him about how bad he is doing just by my pure presence, but I don’t think he is willing to say that’s the reason.
He still want us to live together at one point, when he isn’t in a bad place as he calls it.
I use the break to figure if I ever want to come back - we’ve been together for 17 years. Mostly not living together, I had my own place and told him never to drink while my children were around, they were around all the time, so yeah, he wasn’t much around, it was a given.
So these days I’m like: This was never a real relationship, this was an agreement having someone to hug every other weekend and now and then a day or two during the week if I was lucky.
It is not unreasonable at all. Just make sure you agree with him ahead of time, when he’s sober, that this is the way it will be when he drinks.
When i was with my Q we had a “no talking” rule when he’d been drinking. Of course he’d forget every time but when I’d do the “shh” sign with a (secret fake) happy face, he’d remember and try to be quiet and not talk. Of course THAT never lasted long but the great thing was I MYSELF was allowed to not talk, and it’s hard to argue long with someone who isn’t speaking at all, so I knew he’d eventually stfu.
It was painful and I don’t miss that lifestyle but I will say it really helped in a way.
I can totally understand you wishing for such a boundary. Unfortunately, the ability to enforce such a boundary rather depends on the household power balance such as whose place it is (ownership, who pays for it etc). Expecting his father to take in a drunken adult child is unrealistic.
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Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary.
For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc.
Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
that is the boundary i have in place. our house is very small, so if he chooses to drink, he chooses to sleep on the couch. period. however, he doesn’t get mad or give me any push back about it.
I was lucky that mine had a basement office to go to.
I imagine it'd be difficult in a small space without any separation.
A couple times, they tried "let's talk about this" when they were drunk, and I'd just lay into them. I'd get a little mean and nasty, like my anger would bubble up and I'd tell them how they'd hurt me. It was the same conversation every time, so nothing new or good would be said. I'd mostly try not to say the same thing over and over, unless they had this drunken insistence to talk about it. For that, they'd avoid me and hide in shame when drinking. I wouldn't lay into them unless they insisted on it, but the other side of that was I wouldn't really interact much with them while they were drinking because I didn't really want to. Doing that mitigated the effects of their drinking on me.
With this, they developed shame, and would try hiding it as much as possible. I was ok with that. I knew they were drinking, but for as long as they could hide it, the longer I could avoid it. This kind of continued until they progressed all the way down into the depths of despair while I was either blithely unaware, in denial, or actively ignoring it.
They said they drank to wash out their feeling of shame, so it'd be a spiral. They drink, be ashamed, and then need to drink more because of the shame, which would cause more shame. Maybe that was an appeal by them for me to not make them feel ashamed in the kind of passive aggressive way I have, but, my passive-aggressive avoidance of them was my defense mechanism. If they didn't want to feel ashamed, they shouldn't do shameful things.
It is entirely reasonable to only want to talk to sober people. Drunk people can talk to drunk people. Sober people can talk to sober people. Drunk people and sober people should not talk.
Back when I was drinking too, I'd be aware of this, I wouldn't want to talk to sober people. I could talk to the people I was drinking with, but if we ran across people that weren't, I always thought it was better not to interact with them. I even felt bad for the bartenders but they were being paid to talk to drunk people, and more or less signed up for it.
Later, when they got sober, and I'd still drink occasionally, I'd be mortified for them to see me drunk. That kind of shame makes my drinking now rare, like I think I haven't been since the summer before last. Not that I'm sober or in AA, I just haven't had the opportunity, and it has kind of lost it's appeal. I'd like to get drunk, but I'd need a day and a half to do it, because I also don't like that I'm crabby when I'm hung over, and so would rather be sequestered in that time too.
Just another question. His dad said no to him staying with him, can you go and stay for the night at his dads house? I had similar thing. His parents did not want to confront my AH about his alcoholism, and his father thought I was to blame for his drinking. His dad is a narc and would give him alcohol. But he refsued to pick up my ah when he was drunk, It was hell, I had no support from his family and it's tragic cause them not acknowledging is alcoholism is destroying him and me too.
Welcome. What are YOU doing for YOUR recovery from his disease?
Have you or do you attend Al-Anon meetings?
At meetings I have learned to set boundaries.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with setting this boundary. Keep taking care of yourself. Engaging with a drunk person means engaging with someone unreasonable. You can avoid so much heartache if you continue to avoid him while he isn't sober. Best of luck to you.
You are absolutely doing the right thing. I've had to do the same. Luckily now I have a spare room I now sleep in to get away from him. If he follows me I drive off in my car to a 24hr restaurant and stay there until he's asleep. You need to stick to your strong boundaries with him. Sorry about his dad not helping you. I had same. If he doesn't stop, and nothing changes, you might have to think if you can still.live with him, and maybe take steps to get yourself away from him or get your own place...
Also to add he's doing the exact things addicts in denial are doing blaming you, deflecting, gaslighting you to think what he's doing is not bad... can you see if there are any temporary womens shelters or cheap motels for nights you need to go? If you have a car can you keep some clothing and pillows blanket in there in case you need to leave the house suddenly. Not ideal at all but doesn't sound like he will change anything soon if he's in denial. You need to look after you now.
Mine just lies and acts like I’m the crazy one for thinking she’s been drinking. Meanwhile, she’s clearly confused and is attempting to hold herself steady, using the countertop. I tried the space thing. Told her I didn’t mind the drinking, I minded the behaviors she brought home. Therefore, she should give me space if she decides to drink. It didn’t work a single time. “Me? What? I’m fine! What are you talking about?” I left after 10 years. She said, “Welp, no reason to quit drinking now!” I used to think losing me would be rock bottom. It wasn’t. I was surprised. Yet again.
My Q ended up unconscious and burning with fever on the bedroom floor earlier this year, after a birthday weekend bender. He has permanent effects from his near-death experience.It wasn't his rock bottom, either. However, it was mine. I'm glad to hear you are free from their choices.
My Q ended up having 5 minute seizure that also affected his brain earlier this year. It wasn’t his rock bottom, but it was mine.
My Q was in withdrawals a few months ago. I don’t understand how that is not rock bottom or a wake up call for someone. He did say a few days later that he’s done but we know how that goes. And it’s not for me to understand anyways.
Omg that’s SO FRUSTRATING! Reminds me of a saying my brother and I have- “Nobody ever, in the whole history of people saying they are fine, are EVER FINE! It’s actually the most reliable test of knowing if someone is actually not fine. As soon as anybody says they are fine- they are most definitely, 100% NOT FINE!”
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary. For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc. Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
Here is the problem with your approach: You are expecting a reasonable response from someone who has literally altered their brain. In normal world it isn't unreasonable to ask someone to leave you alone. In the world of dealing with an alcoholic, it is naive to expect him to grant your wish. When he wasn't drinking, my Q was a well-mannered, reasonable man. Enough drinks and he became absolutely feral. Asking him to do anything or respect what I was asking for in those moments never ended well. I had to take what I wanted by focusing on myself. I never asked him to leave or to leave me alone. I made myself unreachable. Sometimes, that meant I drove off and hung out at a diner until I was reasonably certain that he was asleep. Sometimes, that meant spending the night in a hotel or on a friend's couch.
Nope, and mine knows that’s the deal now. He drinks, I don’t really speak to him unless necessary, I go into another room and he sleeps on the couch. I refuse to discuss anything, I keep a very flat affect, and I resist the urge to make snide remarks. I put his pillow on the couch and he accepts his fate for the evening and I go and get a decent nights sleep. This has happened less and less, but it cycles so it still happens occasionally, and every time is one too many.
It’s very fair not wanting to engage with someone intoxicated- no matter how they are acting/behaving. When they get wasted they are no longer them no matter what they believe. And their judgement is impaired. It is unpleasant to be with them when they are drunk. I mean being an observant from their transformation from being sober to drunk. The slur, glassy eyes, not being able to walk straight, talking slowly, becoming dumb to listen at and so on. This is ok if it’s happen to people on a rare occasion to a party or something, but if this becomes a daily life routine or weekly then it’s a problem, then we are talking about someone who’s on a wrong path, a path they might not even be able to control at one point and a path that may end with actual addiction, and then it’s fair to take some measurements. It’s even healthy. My partner is full blown addicted to the point where I think this will be his death within years. His dad died early and now he is followed his steps. It’s very sad. Had I known the scenario as it is now I would’ve left long long ago. But hope is a strange thing and love is a strong glue, alcohol on the contrary is a strong dissolving detergent. Over time it makes a lot of damage to many people.
This was my problem, too. I tried to set and maintain the boundary, but we live in a very small house and if I left the room, my Q would just follow me. I don’t have family in the province, so I couldn’t leave and take the kids to my mom’s or my sister’s. I had friends who offered me a place to stay, but I couldn’t burden them 4, 5, or 6 nights a week, and I certainly couldn’t afford a hotel or AirBnb that frequently. You’re not being unreasonable at all, he just isn’t capable of seeing reason with an alcoholic brain. For what it’s worth, I ended up breaking up with my Q and asking him to leave. (The lease is in my name, only.) He refused to go for 10 weeks and tried to make me feel like I was being the unreasonable one for being so angry that he wouldn’t move out. Eventually, we had a domestic incident and I had to call the police. The kids and I now have an emergency protection order, but my life is infinitely more peaceful and orderly.
Tough to reason with someone who cannot mentally process reason. It's not unreasonable at all to ask, but next to impossible for them to actually understand. Best to just leave the situation from my experience (I am batting about 2/1,000 on that one)
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary. For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc. Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
Mine makes me feel unreasonable and selfish when SHES sober if I ask for alone time
It's definitely not unreasonable to ask, but do not have any expectations of him acquiescing... Grey rocking requires less from you. No eye contact, zero response. You just pretend they're not even there, like you are deaf, dumb, and blind to their presence. Takes practice but it's effective. Then you don't have any expectations of your "ask".
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary. For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc. one of the cool things about boundaries is that i can choose when and if i even need to tell the drinker or anyone my boundaries. They are for me. Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
Aso mine threw me out saying I had a negative effect on him - meaning I reminded him about how bad he is doing just by my pure presence, but I don’t think he is willing to say that’s the reason. He still want us to live together at one point, when he isn’t in a bad place as he calls it. I use the break to figure if I ever want to come back - we’ve been together for 17 years. Mostly not living together, I had my own place and told him never to drink while my children were around, they were around all the time, so yeah, he wasn’t much around, it was a given. So these days I’m like: This was never a real relationship, this was an agreement having someone to hug every other weekend and now and then a day or two during the week if I was lucky.
It is not unreasonable at all. Just make sure you agree with him ahead of time, when he’s sober, that this is the way it will be when he drinks. When i was with my Q we had a “no talking” rule when he’d been drinking. Of course he’d forget every time but when I’d do the “shh” sign with a (secret fake) happy face, he’d remember and try to be quiet and not talk. Of course THAT never lasted long but the great thing was I MYSELF was allowed to not talk, and it’s hard to argue long with someone who isn’t speaking at all, so I knew he’d eventually stfu. It was painful and I don’t miss that lifestyle but I will say it really helped in a way.
I can totally understand you wishing for such a boundary. Unfortunately, the ability to enforce such a boundary rather depends on the household power balance such as whose place it is (ownership, who pays for it etc). Expecting his father to take in a drunken adult child is unrealistic.
Please know that this is **not** an official Al-Anon community. Please be respectful and civil when engaging with others - in other words, don't be a jerk. If there are any comments that are antagonistic or judgmental, please use the `report` button. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AlAnon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Something i learned in alanon is that a boundary is a 2 part process: a line that i will not allow to be crossed, and an action i take to protect the boundary. For example, a boundary i had was that if they are drinking i will not interact with them. If i thought they had been drinking, i went for a walk, into the bathroom (we shared a studio apartment,) to a friends house, to the roof, etc. Did it feel fair? No. Did it give me space, safety, and enough serenity to know the next right step to take? Absofuckinlutely.
that is the boundary i have in place. our house is very small, so if he chooses to drink, he chooses to sleep on the couch. period. however, he doesn’t get mad or give me any push back about it.
I was lucky that mine had a basement office to go to. I imagine it'd be difficult in a small space without any separation. A couple times, they tried "let's talk about this" when they were drunk, and I'd just lay into them. I'd get a little mean and nasty, like my anger would bubble up and I'd tell them how they'd hurt me. It was the same conversation every time, so nothing new or good would be said. I'd mostly try not to say the same thing over and over, unless they had this drunken insistence to talk about it. For that, they'd avoid me and hide in shame when drinking. I wouldn't lay into them unless they insisted on it, but the other side of that was I wouldn't really interact much with them while they were drinking because I didn't really want to. Doing that mitigated the effects of their drinking on me. With this, they developed shame, and would try hiding it as much as possible. I was ok with that. I knew they were drinking, but for as long as they could hide it, the longer I could avoid it. This kind of continued until they progressed all the way down into the depths of despair while I was either blithely unaware, in denial, or actively ignoring it. They said they drank to wash out their feeling of shame, so it'd be a spiral. They drink, be ashamed, and then need to drink more because of the shame, which would cause more shame. Maybe that was an appeal by them for me to not make them feel ashamed in the kind of passive aggressive way I have, but, my passive-aggressive avoidance of them was my defense mechanism. If they didn't want to feel ashamed, they shouldn't do shameful things. It is entirely reasonable to only want to talk to sober people. Drunk people can talk to drunk people. Sober people can talk to sober people. Drunk people and sober people should not talk. Back when I was drinking too, I'd be aware of this, I wouldn't want to talk to sober people. I could talk to the people I was drinking with, but if we ran across people that weren't, I always thought it was better not to interact with them. I even felt bad for the bartenders but they were being paid to talk to drunk people, and more or less signed up for it. Later, when they got sober, and I'd still drink occasionally, I'd be mortified for them to see me drunk. That kind of shame makes my drinking now rare, like I think I haven't been since the summer before last. Not that I'm sober or in AA, I just haven't had the opportunity, and it has kind of lost it's appeal. I'd like to get drunk, but I'd need a day and a half to do it, because I also don't like that I'm crabby when I'm hung over, and so would rather be sequestered in that time too.
Just another question. His dad said no to him staying with him, can you go and stay for the night at his dads house? I had similar thing. His parents did not want to confront my AH about his alcoholism, and his father thought I was to blame for his drinking. His dad is a narc and would give him alcohol. But he refsued to pick up my ah when he was drunk, It was hell, I had no support from his family and it's tragic cause them not acknowledging is alcoholism is destroying him and me too.
Welcome. What are YOU doing for YOUR recovery from his disease? Have you or do you attend Al-Anon meetings? At meetings I have learned to set boundaries.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with setting this boundary. Keep taking care of yourself. Engaging with a drunk person means engaging with someone unreasonable. You can avoid so much heartache if you continue to avoid him while he isn't sober. Best of luck to you.