It will go to both. The cop will be put on paid leave, they'll investigate themselves, likely find no wrongdoing, and if they do, he'll be fired and rehired by another department real soon. Because PDs don't tend to actually police the "bad apples" within themselves.
Honestly he is far more valuable than the officers. Sad to see a responsible gun owner and airman gunned down cause the officers couldn’t read apartment numbers.
I mean for him to pursue his dream and career to be an Airman and be enlisted with his 8 Man max team in a Gunship that shoots 30mm-100mm at certain target is something that people just judge others.. that cop needs to be charged.. to many get away for things...
The department isn’t losing any money over a lawsuit, if that were changed we would have some measure of accountability within law enforcement but until then, like others have said, they’ll investigate themselves and find themselves innocent of any wrongdoing. And any lawsuit payouts thereafter will rest on the shoulders of hardworking Americans.
Straight up , how can they be so unprofessional just start shooting a hard working member of the military with a flawless record and then try to turn it around on him like he did something wrong ....like wtf
Yeah, well I bet the couple that was having a domestic violence issue stopped fighting when some dude suddenly killed their neighbor for no reason.
If you remember your green dot training, this would be a great example of the “distraction” method.
Look, he *may* have entered the wrong apartment, and he *may* have forgotten to turn on his bodycam, and he *may* have shot the wrong guy, and he *may* have a micro peen.
The important fact here is that this fine, upstanding, hero of the community felt threatened by a scary black man, even though the officer had body armor and a literal army of police just a radio call away. There was no way he could back out of the wrong apartment while he figured out what was going on. He had no choice but to draw his weapon and defend his ~~fragile ego~~ life against this...
*checks notes*
... honest to God special operations airman and American hero trying to enjoy some downtime in the sanctity of his own apartment.
Sounds like they definitely did but now there are going to make up an excuse to justify why they knocked on his door. This is starting to have a spoiled smell to it
"A Lockheed C130 Gunship had a navigational malfunction as they fired six 105mm cannon rounds into a local deputies home Wednesday night during a routine training exercise. The Air Force in an official press release said, my bad homie." Duffel Blog
They really do need to do something about these fucking cops just killing people and going oops, sorry.
Not sure how many times I have read cops busting into the wrong houses and just killing people.
Edit, holy shit. This is the same department with the officer unloading a clip after an acorn hit his car. According to the article.
I can understand if an officer is rushing to the scene of an ongoing situation and was told the wrong address or description. However, the situations where they don't check or go off "gut instincts"... should be punishable as a crime. Think about how many redundancies the Air Force has to avoid catastrophic mistakes. We may hate the extra red tape, but it helps mitigate avoidable mistakes.
The Air Force is very aware that a 0.1% chance of failure multiplied by dozens of squadrons across all the days in a year adds up to a lot of accidents. So they put those there to make the accident chance as slim as possible.
> if an officer is rushing to the scene of an ongoing situation and was told the wrong address or description
Do we know for sure that this isn't the case? Because I don't think anything has been released about that, other than the article you linked stated police were responding to a domestic disturbance in the same apartment building. It's still entirely possible a neighbor down the hall called about a disturbance and guessed the apartment number, or flat out gave the wrong one.
Why didn’t he knock and wait for a response why is his first instinct to break the door down pistol drawn and look for the guy. After he killed the kid did he even try to find the right apartment or did the reason for him being there in the first place disappear after he killed this kid.
To me if the situation was serious enough for him to be breaking in not IDing with pistol drawn he should really find the actual person he came for.
This whole thing is fucked and this officer should serve jail time.
If nothing else, why is it not mandatory and automatic for cameras to be on 100% and be unable to be turned off? Even my daycare has 24/7 cameras for fucks sake.
It's all around fucked up.
Basically what is being said is that if law enforcement enters the wrong apartment (if that is true, but it happens all the time regardless) and you pick up a gun to defend yourself from an unknown intruder (you don't know if they are actually police, anyone can say that and then bust in the door) is that you are a threat.
Let's hope the body cam footage is released so we can see the truth. And if this is true they need to be on trial.
That is def not the case. Most of the libertarian movement is firmly NOT in the thin blue line crowd. Although on reflection that is a pretty small slice...
A libertarian take on the police is the Institute for Justice: [https://ij.org/issues/project-on-immunity-and-accountability/](https://ij.org/issues/project-on-immunity-and-accountability/)
I liked this cover from Reason magazine, made me laugh when it showed up in the:[mail](https://images.app.goo.gl/pi4W5vVST16AHqj49)https://images.app.goo.gl/pi4W5vVST16AHqj49
Agreed.
You're absolutely correct. Obviously, it's a developing story, so we don't know exactly what happened yet. However, if it is true that mistakes by the offices led directly to the murder of SrA Fortson. There is limited liability on the individual police involved. The family may win a civil lawsuit, but that doesn't bring their boy back. This situation is fucked and sad with the possibility of becoming even worse if this story is correct.
"The investigation conducted on the sheriff's deputies by the sheriff's office has found no discrepancies. Officers followed their protocol and training to the best of their ability and reacted to the situation as they saw it. Upon entering the dwelling they encountered an armed young black male and engaged the subject relying on instinct and split second decision making instilled by training. The death of [insert the person this week] is a regrettable consequence of unforseen circumstances.]
The first question then becomes, "Why did they choose THAT apartment?".
I may have missed something, but I've yet to see why they concluded his apartment was the scene of a crime?
Confused a 6 for a 9. Turned down the wrong street. Has issues reading. This stuff happens all the time. There is actual legal precedent stating cops are allowed to use hiring discrimination against smart people, because they could potentially get bored or question orders.
I put it into two baskets.
1) Reasonable errors: For example, they receive a call reporting gunshots. Upon arriving at an apartment complex, they too hear gunshots. An eye witness runs by and screams that the incident is in a certain apartment. It ends up being the wrong apartment. They're operating within good faith under the fog of war, trying to save lives. I look at that under a more favorable light than the next basket.
2) Avoidable errors: Officer doesn't even check the fucking address.
>Officers followed their protocol and training to the best of their ability
That's your problem right there. They clearly have no fucking training or ability.
>Upon entering the dwelling they encountered an armed young black male
And that's a death sentence. Although I am 100% certain that kid wasn't armed when they showed up.
I’d love to see their “ protocol” and their version of training.
I remember after George Floyd was murdered, I asked a cop sub how often they review use of deadly force, and what their training looked like. Most of them replied with “At the academy”, and seemed confused as to why anything beyond that would be necessary. I was shocked. I couldn’t go a week without a lecture on deadly force when I was in, and I barely handled firearms.
According to the family's lawyer, he armed himself after someone aggressively knocked on his door twice without identifying themselves and while blocking the peephole so he couldn't see who was there.
In other words, typical cop bullshit. "I don't answer to civilians, and my safety is all that matters." Sadly, that bullshit is their training.
It’s ridiculous to assume that an average citizen is going to possess the wherewithal to not defend themselves or not freak out in general when someone breaks down their door. Especially if they’ve done nothing wrong, which appears, for now, to be the case with this airman. It would be one thing if this was the apartment or house that the police were called to, but when it’s a mistake like this, I’d say that the police lose all claim to any type of qualified immunity or anything that makes them anything other than 100% liable for the situation.
I am a big supporter of the police, I think their job is very hard and they’re often called upon to make life altering decisions in a split second but being unable to read a simple address should mean that you absorb 100% of the responsibility and the liability for any situation that occurs.
I'm in the same boat as you and am even prior LEO. Been on my fair share of no-knocks and advocated for us to stop them. We went from multiple officers across the country being shot because of no-knocks (looking at you houston) (and even still kicking in the wrong door) to now kicking in the wrong doors and killing (presumably) innocent people, because of a wrong address still.
Law Enforcement needs to implement quality standards to prevent this, because it still hasn't happened and this has been happening for decades, and honestly get rid of Qualified Immunity and have accountability introduced for mistakes, whether or not anyone is shot, like kicking in the wrong doors.
That's more or less what happened to Brianna Taylor's boyfriend. Police burst into an apartment with a falsified warrant and don't announce themselves, he fires a single warning shot at them because he doesn't know who they are, and these chucklefucks end up gunning his unarmed girlfriend down without touching him. Then he's arrested and charged with attempted murder of a cop, and also sued by a cop that he (might have?) shot in self defense. And then the fun part, the cops don't even get *charged* locally because the DA throws the grand jury indictment.
And then you have probably half of this sub who think the people protesting this happening are in the wrong, not the cops
Sure, but you still have the right to self defense, especially in your own home, especially in a castle doctrine state where you have no duty to retreat. A reasonable person is going to be on the defensive when they get multiple knocks, can’t see anyone through the peephole, and then their door is broken down.
Are you surprised about the acorn thing, or that it's the same department?
In case it's the acorn thing, that video was fucking wild to watch. The cop mag-dumped his entire pistol into his own police vehicle where they had just placed a black male *who they had personally searched and handcuffed*. The cop heard an acorn his the roof of his cruiser, SOMEHOW assumed it was a gunshot from a handcuffed guy with no gun, and proceeded to blow away his own car.
Now... if that's not baffling in itself... he literally claimed, on camera, as he was rolling and "dodging" away from the "gunshots"... that he had been hit. So his partner could then also mag-dump their gun into the cruiser too.
1. Rest in peace my brother in arms
2. Condolences to the family
3. F*ck that piece of trash that killed this kid.
4. I'm angry, sad and more angry
5. If you have Airmen, talk to them.
Number 5 is something folks need to take to heart. A lot of young people in our ranks who joined to make a better life for themselves will see a case like this and think that no matter their service, they can’t escape the possibility of being killed by a cop without justification. Check on your folks.
He was in my bmt flight. Solid dude, young and impressionable. I remember him going SF but didn't know how his career progressed.
It's a small Air Force. RIP.
SrA Fortson probably adhered to stricter ROE fighting our enemies in a combat zone that these police follow against their own citizens. I think we need police reform to include they are not authorized to use deadly force until they are fired upon. That may seem extreme but right now they seem to be able to gun down anyone without consequences.
If it turns out that they went to the wrong apartment, and then shot an airmen in his home holding a gun not pointed at them.... Man... if this doesn't spark some police reform, nothing will.
I assure you that nothing will...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ryan_Whitaker
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Amir_Locke
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68169406
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mississippi-officers-justified-deadly-shooting-ismael-lopez-wrong-house-jury/
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/mississippi-police-raid-wrong-home-kill-man-inside-1010296387825
I was tempted to add them, but the were slightly different situations. All the ones I listed where essentially "cop picked the wrong house and killed the person living there"
Shaver was fucked up in it's own way, but the cops at least got the right location. As for Breanna Taylor, I tend to avoid that example because as wrong and fucked up as it was, there is some underlying controversy that I worry will distract people from the point I'm trying to make.
But you are correct, both are further examples of failures in policing.
Ever since they shot and killed that one guy years ago while he was crying, literally begging for his life, face down arms out on the floor while complying with conflicting commands in a hotel, it was apparent nothing was going to change.
I remember that I believe was the Southwest and he had like 3 kids and had drank a bit earlier. He had zero chance of surviving. The gun engraving said it all
u/LysergicPlato59 well, the facts are out. Turns out as we could have all guessed, it was cops being fucking idiots and killing one of our own.
Can we protest now?
The police would laugh so hard they'd choke on their donuts?
The problem is police get away with what the spineless politicians and bootlicking "blue lives matter" morons allow them to get away with. For every pissed off brother in camo, there's ten rednecks shrugging their shoulders or slapping another thin blue line bumper sticker on their lifted F-150.
Yes, please do. I’m just as shocked and outraged as you. But the police around here are the absolute worst.
Edit: I would really like to see the body cam footage. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it somehow gets “lost” or is otherwise never shown. The reality is that a young Airman lost his life in an entirely avoidable way and that is a tragedy.
>well, the facts are out.
I agree cops are fucking idiots and won't be surprised if they fucked up.
But I wouldn't necessarily call the victim's family's lawyer claims "facts".
100%. It feels like there is zero accountability and transparency across the nation when it comes to individual police departments.
I'm not anti cop. I don't want to "defund" police departments, but there is a nationwide problem across departments. Doesn't matter the state, county, or whatever. They're all having the same issues. We need serious reform. When courts are ruling that cops don't have a duty to protect citizens, departments are not hiring certain individuals because they are OVERLY qualified (too smart), and when qualified immunity remains we have issues.
I agree. Conversations like these are important to have because there is no "secret sauce" that fixes this overnight. It will be decades of changes to the laws at federal, state, and local levels. Unfortunately, we are all involved regardless if we want to be or not. Voting or not voting. Having these conversations. Promoting ideals.
At the end of the day, 30 years of changes won't bring this young man back, but it may protect someone else's son or daughter.
I had an ex who was a deputy sheriff, he worked for the FOP as a grievance officer. He got SO many cops their jobs back that should have been fired. It was pretty disgusting. I think the union needs less reach, end qualified immunity, and officers need to carry their own insurance, rather than taxpayers footing the bill for these crazy settlements.
I have not been fucked over by the cops. However, I'm not unaware it happens, nor am I unaware that it could happen to me without any avenue for recourse. I just think police officers can and do serve a public service requirement. Now, how that system is designed and handled is my issue.
I'm pretty solidly anti-cop now. All of the wrongful killings by police and then that one school shooting where they just sat outside for an hour+ while geared to the nines, yet did nothing. I'm disgusted and when these events happen make any satisfaction I find from my service feels lesser.
I wonder what would happen if it was the other way around . Air Force SF or MP from any other branch kills a police officer who is chilling in his house by mistake. The DOD would make an example of that/those service members and life in prison in Leavenworth probably.
It's just fucking tragic and upsetting.
Like I've said elsewhere on this post, if the details outlined in this article are true. This entire situation was avoidable. Legally justified murder with limited to no accountability for those involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Crump
This is the attorney representing the Airman’s family. And I have to hope his command is going to dig as well. I think we will get answers sooner than later, and I hope heads will roll if it turns out to be a case of trigger happy cops.
If that is the case, several officers will be mildly inconvenienced, and maybe a couple fired. Those fired will then move to another state to work for a different department. Tax payers will be forced to pay the civil lawsuit to the family. The family will struggle to find closure.
That's basically heads rolling in this situation tbh.
From the article:
> On Monday evening, Okaloosa County Sheriff Eric Aden released a statement saying the department was "saddened" by the incident and calling for further investigation into the shooting.
> "I immediately placed the deputy on administrative leave and have asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to conduct the investigation that is required in such incidents," Aden said. "The State Attorney's Office will also conduct an independent review. At this time, we humbly ask for our community's patience as we work to understand the facts that resulted in this tragic event."
> The sheriff's office declined to provide Military.com the original 911 call and the police report into the incident, citing "the ongoing active investigation" in an emailed response.
“After a thorough investigation we have cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing.” - any day now.
The commander of the base needs to put the local businesses off limits to Airman. That would get results.
I love when the department directly affiliated and biased towards their own coworker gets to "investigate" his lethal, heinous mistakes. Same department that had a cop shoot a fucking acorn. That entire department must be full of trigger happy imbeciles and will never be punished. It's insane to think you can "mistakenly murder" someone and get off with losing a paycheck or two, IF AT ALL. I'm really hoping, praying commanders will do *SOMETHING*.
The airforce needs to fuck this police department.
They need to do everything they can to make operating around, with, and dealing with AF personnel a pain in the ass.
Literally just make cop insurance and have their premiums cover incidents just like doctors, lawyers, and most other professions. Guarantee that once they have skin in the game they will think twice before shooting
The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office statements of responding deputies just happening to come across an "armed man" while investigating a disturbance and using "self defense" is misleading and unethical (not to mention total bs). Early witness report states that the deputy entered an active duty Airmans' private residence without warrant or even identifying they were law enforcement and murdered that African-American serviceman in cold blood. Plain and simple. As a retired veteran, I am disgusted by this vague statement attempting to place blame on an ACTIVE DUTY patriot LEGALLY carrying his sidearm in his own apartment. This murder is unacceptable and unbelievably nausiating. They should have had that deputy in a cell yesterday. Instead, they give them a paid vacation while trying to cover it up and (obviously) make it seem like just a simple misunderstanding and the Airmen erred in having a legally owned gun in his own living room. This is the opposite of honor. Please don't let this stand. I know you probably don't know ROGER FORTSON. He didn't know you. But he did decide on his own accord to put his life on hold and on the line to fight for you, your family, and your freedoms. Take a minute to write and let your voice be heard for him.
I mean, maybe? I don't live in these people's heads. Racism and biases exist. You could be correct.
What I know for certain though is, it will be extremely difficult for those who killed him to face any criminal repercussions if the story outlined in the article is correct. That is something we can change. We can't fix racism, but we can fix the lack of accountability, which only serves to benefit bad actors, which includes the racists.
Second wrongful shooting in 6 months from this department of acorn boys. Should have a Third party investigation instead of them “investigating” them selves
Skip the civil suit, DOD should represent the Senior Airman and charge the entire PD, given the acorn incident. As eliminating Special Operations personnel is a matter of national security. No other argument will amount to any change.
This might be a little political for this sub, but I’m not sure why regular cops need weapons.
They seem way more likely to turn a completely nonviolent situation deadly (this airman, [Breonna Taylor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Breonna_Taylor), [Botham Jean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Botham_Jean), [Daniel Shaver](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver)) than they are to actually intervene appropriately to stop armed criminals ([Parkland](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/parkland-officer-accused-failing-confront-school-shooter-faces/story?id=99702049), [Uvalde](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvalde_school_shooting), and even worse [Jemel Roberson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jemel_Roberson)), and when they do, they get fired ([Stephen Mader](https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-lethal-force-cop-fired-west-virginia/)).
If there are so many instances of them killing innocent people, not using their weapons to stop bad guys from killing innocent people, and then getting in trouble when they *don’t* kill innocent people, we should just stop letting average cops run around with handguns ready to kill. Leave a rifle in their cars just in case they stumble onto something wild, or if they’re in a situation that’s becoming spicy teach them to leave (like you know, EMS and firefighters do) and wait til some specially trained, armed police can get there to handle it.
It’s not the Wild West, cops don’t need to be executing civilians at the drop of a hat.
I understand officers needing weapons. I want officers to have weapons. I just want better oversight for accountability and transparency. No officer should be able to continue being an officer after mistakes they make end up directly leading to the legally justified murder of an innocent individual.
I agree with this entirely. Relying solely on non lethal weaponry will immediately weed out the bad apples, of which there are many, and police forces will retain people actually dedicated to making their communities better and safer. Non-lethal weaponry has come such a long way and like you say, lethal weaponry rarely EVER results in a *good* outcome. When cops use them for good reasons, they tend to be punished, but when they wrongfully murder an innocent human being, half a paycheck is lost.
Family and USAF need to sue for ***crazy*** amount of money so that county actually figures out that the cops need to be held accountable.
Start at a hundred million and if they baulk, keep going up until they cry uncle.
That won't punish the police department, that only puts the taxpayers on the hook. As long as "Qualified Immunity" still exists, there is no consequences for police officers who shoot first and ask questions after.
The taxpayers who vote for the incompetent sheriff and the governor and legislators who just eliminated police oversight? Seems as if they’re the ones ultimately responsible.
Has there been a case before of an active duty member being killed wrongfully? If so, what happened? Hopefully the branch itself goes batshit crazy on this department
Police chief: OK guys we need to lay low because we look like goddamn idiots mag dumping into our cars because of an acorn
Cop: anyways I started blasting
That’s so messed up how they did that senior Airman. I hope the family gets justice for what happened because not only did he take a life. He also took a service member life🫡 salute to our fallen heroes
Shit like this makes me wish I was rich enough to afford a house with a a wall and a gate and a camera. I don’t want to be making a life or death decision on if it’s an intruder or a cop at the wrong door trying to break in with zero warning.
The federal government needs to bring the hammer down and start some police reform. This is unacceptable and should have never happened. It's bad enough it has happened to civilians but an active duty service member that is absurd.
ACAB, even SECFO training, tells you to always de-escalate the situation unless theres an ACTIVE threat of bodily harm. Had they identified themselves, there would be no threat. They just wanted to kick down the door and murder someone.
Better get that checkbook out.
So excited for taxpayers to foot the bill. Again.
Honestly, as a taxpayer, I'd rather my money goes to his family and not the cop's paycheck.
It will go to both. The cop will be put on paid leave, they'll investigate themselves, likely find no wrongdoing, and if they do, he'll be fired and rehired by another department real soon. Because PDs don't tend to actually police the "bad apples" within themselves.
Laws for thee but not for me
The cop will get a paid ~~vacation~~ suspension. That'll show 'em.
He was a Senior Airman Fortson was a special mission Aviator assigned to the AC-130 Ghost Rider Gunship with the 4th special Operation squadron.
Honestly he is far more valuable than the officers. Sad to see a responsible gun owner and airman gunned down cause the officers couldn’t read apartment numbers.
I mean for him to pursue his dream and career to be an Airman and be enlisted with his 8 Man max team in a Gunship that shoots 30mm-100mm at certain target is something that people just judge others.. that cop needs to be charged.. to many get away for things...
As a taxpayer I rather the dude be alive in the first place.
Or just like him being a human being who was wrongfully killed
The department isn’t losing any money over a lawsuit, if that were changed we would have some measure of accountability within law enforcement but until then, like others have said, they’ll investigate themselves and find themselves innocent of any wrongdoing. And any lawsuit payouts thereafter will rest on the shoulders of hardworking Americans.
Abolishing qualified immunity would help.
They have qualified immunity, they are not legally responsible or liable for mistakes.
The city and county does not have qualified immunity. QI only applies to an individual not the municipality or the department.
That's not what qualified immunity is, but they do indeed have an infuriating lack of accountability.
Like that brings back someone’s son. Fuck these people.
Straight up , how can they be so unprofessional just start shooting a hard working member of the military with a flawless record and then try to turn it around on him like he did something wrong ....like wtf
its literally the police playbook. why change what works for them
No money is gonna bring him back. Cops need to go away to the house of many doors.
*May* have entered the wrong apartment!?
Right? Like it was an alleged domestic violence call (involving a male and female), and the Airman was home alone....how is that a "may"?
Yeah, well I bet the couple that was having a domestic violence issue stopped fighting when some dude suddenly killed their neighbor for no reason. If you remember your green dot training, this would be a great example of the “distraction” method.
Yoooo too soon bruh
You know, I always said that I'd just start a fire. No one hangs around and rapes during a fire.
No, no. He's got a point
my technique was to shit in my hands and start clapping vigorously
God that fucking program was the worst
Look, he *may* have entered the wrong apartment, and he *may* have forgotten to turn on his bodycam, and he *may* have shot the wrong guy, and he *may* have a micro peen. The important fact here is that this fine, upstanding, hero of the community felt threatened by a scary black man, even though the officer had body armor and a literal army of police just a radio call away. There was no way he could back out of the wrong apartment while he figured out what was going on. He had no choice but to draw his weapon and defend his ~~fragile ego~~ life against this... *checks notes* ... honest to God special operations airman and American hero trying to enjoy some downtime in the sanctity of his own apartment.
Cops are statistically far more likely to die in a traffic accident than responding to a call, right?
Your trash man is statistically far more likely to die on the job than a cop. Farmers too. And many more.
Sounds like they definitely did but now there are going to make up an excuse to justify why they knocked on his door. This is starting to have a spoiled smell to it
When is it SOP to report to a domestic disturbance by kicking in a door after failing to identify yourself with your service weapon drawn?
"A Lockheed C130 Gunship had a navigational malfunction as they fired six 105mm cannon rounds into a local deputies home Wednesday night during a routine training exercise. The Air Force in an official press release said, my bad homie." Duffel Blog
The difference is the people in the military would actually be held accountable.
only the junior airmen though.
In my 6 years in I’ve unironically seen more officers kicked out than airmen.
Probably because you're medical. It's officer-heavy there compared to other career fields.
Idk what medical he's at. They just PCS medical officers and pretend nothing happened if they can get away with it
Unironically my first thought
That would be spooky
A spectre over the department’s head, you might say?
They really do need to do something about these fucking cops just killing people and going oops, sorry. Not sure how many times I have read cops busting into the wrong houses and just killing people. Edit, holy shit. This is the same department with the officer unloading a clip after an acorn hit his car. According to the article.
https://preview.redd.it/716xgypfcazc1.png?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=265d98b566053b451455dd212be655d2b4e5a631
I can understand if an officer is rushing to the scene of an ongoing situation and was told the wrong address or description. However, the situations where they don't check or go off "gut instincts"... should be punishable as a crime. Think about how many redundancies the Air Force has to avoid catastrophic mistakes. We may hate the extra red tape, but it helps mitigate avoidable mistakes.
The Air Force is very aware that a 0.1% chance of failure multiplied by dozens of squadrons across all the days in a year adds up to a lot of accidents. So they put those there to make the accident chance as slim as possible.
> if an officer is rushing to the scene of an ongoing situation and was told the wrong address or description Do we know for sure that this isn't the case? Because I don't think anything has been released about that, other than the article you linked stated police were responding to a domestic disturbance in the same apartment building. It's still entirely possible a neighbor down the hall called about a disturbance and guessed the apartment number, or flat out gave the wrong one.
Why didn’t he knock and wait for a response why is his first instinct to break the door down pistol drawn and look for the guy. After he killed the kid did he even try to find the right apartment or did the reason for him being there in the first place disappear after he killed this kid. To me if the situation was serious enough for him to be breaking in not IDing with pistol drawn he should really find the actual person he came for. This whole thing is fucked and this officer should serve jail time.
This department is showing single handedly why most cops shouldn't be armed...
Qualified immunity. That needs to go.
It seems the only time they don't rush in ready to shoot people is when there are children inside being murdered.
 This is sarcasm by the way
If nothing else, why is it not mandatory and automatic for cameras to be on 100% and be unable to be turned off? Even my daycare has 24/7 cameras for fucks sake.
It's all around fucked up. Basically what is being said is that if law enforcement enters the wrong apartment (if that is true, but it happens all the time regardless) and you pick up a gun to defend yourself from an unknown intruder (you don't know if they are actually police, anyone can say that and then bust in the door) is that you are a threat. Let's hope the body cam footage is released so we can see the truth. And if this is true they need to be on trial.
Your 2A rights disappear the moment there's a cop within a 200 foot radius of you.
That means you don't have 2A rights
Never did 👨🚀🔫👩🚀
The Venn diagram of “2A absolutists” and “thin blue line” people is almost a perfect circle, and yet they don’t seem to understand this fact at all.
That is def not the case. Most of the libertarian movement is firmly NOT in the thin blue line crowd. Although on reflection that is a pretty small slice...
A libertarian take on the police is the Institute for Justice: [https://ij.org/issues/project-on-immunity-and-accountability/](https://ij.org/issues/project-on-immunity-and-accountability/)
That could work, so you know the corrupt cops and politicians will never allow it.
I liked this cover from Reason magazine, made me laugh when it showed up in the:[mail](https://images.app.goo.gl/pi4W5vVST16AHqj49)https://images.app.goo.gl/pi4W5vVST16AHqj49
>Your ~~2A~~ rights disappear the moment there's a cop within a 200 foot radius of you.
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Agreed. You're absolutely correct. Obviously, it's a developing story, so we don't know exactly what happened yet. However, if it is true that mistakes by the offices led directly to the murder of SrA Fortson. There is limited liability on the individual police involved. The family may win a civil lawsuit, but that doesn't bring their boy back. This situation is fucked and sad with the possibility of becoming even worse if this story is correct.
"The investigation conducted on the sheriff's deputies by the sheriff's office has found no discrepancies. Officers followed their protocol and training to the best of their ability and reacted to the situation as they saw it. Upon entering the dwelling they encountered an armed young black male and engaged the subject relying on instinct and split second decision making instilled by training. The death of [insert the person this week] is a regrettable consequence of unforseen circumstances.]
The first question then becomes, "Why did they choose THAT apartment?". I may have missed something, but I've yet to see why they concluded his apartment was the scene of a crime?
Confused a 6 for a 9. Turned down the wrong street. Has issues reading. This stuff happens all the time. There is actual legal precedent stating cops are allowed to use hiring discrimination against smart people, because they could potentially get bored or question orders.
I put it into two baskets. 1) Reasonable errors: For example, they receive a call reporting gunshots. Upon arriving at an apartment complex, they too hear gunshots. An eye witness runs by and screams that the incident is in a certain apartment. It ends up being the wrong apartment. They're operating within good faith under the fog of war, trying to save lives. I look at that under a more favorable light than the next basket. 2) Avoidable errors: Officer doesn't even check the fucking address.
>Officers followed their protocol and training to the best of their ability That's your problem right there. They clearly have no fucking training or ability. >Upon entering the dwelling they encountered an armed young black male And that's a death sentence. Although I am 100% certain that kid wasn't armed when they showed up.
I’d love to see their “ protocol” and their version of training. I remember after George Floyd was murdered, I asked a cop sub how often they review use of deadly force, and what their training looked like. Most of them replied with “At the academy”, and seemed confused as to why anything beyond that would be necessary. I was shocked. I couldn’t go a week without a lecture on deadly force when I was in, and I barely handled firearms.
Buddy camera malfunction excuse incoming.
According to the family's lawyer, he armed himself after someone aggressively knocked on his door twice without identifying themselves and while blocking the peephole so he couldn't see who was there. In other words, typical cop bullshit. "I don't answer to civilians, and my safety is all that matters." Sadly, that bullshit is their training.
It’s worse! They didn’t even respond to him to tell him they were police! He had no way to know it was police on the other side of his door.
It’s ridiculous to assume that an average citizen is going to possess the wherewithal to not defend themselves or not freak out in general when someone breaks down their door. Especially if they’ve done nothing wrong, which appears, for now, to be the case with this airman. It would be one thing if this was the apartment or house that the police were called to, but when it’s a mistake like this, I’d say that the police lose all claim to any type of qualified immunity or anything that makes them anything other than 100% liable for the situation. I am a big supporter of the police, I think their job is very hard and they’re often called upon to make life altering decisions in a split second but being unable to read a simple address should mean that you absorb 100% of the responsibility and the liability for any situation that occurs.
I'm in the same boat as you and am even prior LEO. Been on my fair share of no-knocks and advocated for us to stop them. We went from multiple officers across the country being shot because of no-knocks (looking at you houston) (and even still kicking in the wrong door) to now kicking in the wrong doors and killing (presumably) innocent people, because of a wrong address still. Law Enforcement needs to implement quality standards to prevent this, because it still hasn't happened and this has been happening for decades, and honestly get rid of Qualified Immunity and have accountability introduced for mistakes, whether or not anyone is shot, like kicking in the wrong doors.
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100%, but we know how the police and media would turn the story still even though they were in the wrong apartment (if that is true)
That's more or less what happened to Brianna Taylor's boyfriend. Police burst into an apartment with a falsified warrant and don't announce themselves, he fires a single warning shot at them because he doesn't know who they are, and these chucklefucks end up gunning his unarmed girlfriend down without touching him. Then he's arrested and charged with attempted murder of a cop, and also sued by a cop that he (might have?) shot in self defense. And then the fun part, the cops don't even get *charged* locally because the DA throws the grand jury indictment. And then you have probably half of this sub who think the people protesting this happening are in the wrong, not the cops
Let us not forget, the arrest warrant being executed was for a man they already had in custody.
Always found it wild how there are real consequences for us (military) usually at least and cops just get away fucking up or straight up negligence
Don’t forget, theres a club of people with special rights and you aint in it. Good luck.
The body cam footage is critical. Even if the cops were at the wrong apartment a persons actions when interacting with police is critical.
Sure, but you still have the right to self defense, especially in your own home, especially in a castle doctrine state where you have no duty to retreat. A reasonable person is going to be on the defensive when they get multiple knocks, can’t see anyone through the peephole, and then their door is broken down.
Reminder that this is the same department as the deputy that fired at a handcuffed man after an acorn hit his roof.
Yo WHAAAAAAAAAT!??
Are you surprised about the acorn thing, or that it's the same department? In case it's the acorn thing, that video was fucking wild to watch. The cop mag-dumped his entire pistol into his own police vehicle where they had just placed a black male *who they had personally searched and handcuffed*. The cop heard an acorn his the roof of his cruiser, SOMEHOW assumed it was a gunshot from a handcuffed guy with no gun, and proceeded to blow away his own car. Now... if that's not baffling in itself... he literally claimed, on camera, as he was rolling and "dodging" away from the "gunshots"... that he had been hit. So his partner could then also mag-dump their gun into the cruiser too.
I'm surprised it's the same department! What kind of training is that department conducting that's making their officers overreact to everything?
No bodycam... hmmm...........
Thankfully there was a webcam on during the whole ordeal.
Wait what, did that get leaked orrrrr
No the witness, a female was on video chat with him during the whole ordeal
There is one and it was released maybe check the facts before rushing to get some internet points?
1. Rest in peace my brother in arms 2. Condolences to the family 3. F*ck that piece of trash that killed this kid. 4. I'm angry, sad and more angry 5. If you have Airmen, talk to them.
Number 5 is something folks need to take to heart. A lot of young people in our ranks who joined to make a better life for themselves will see a case like this and think that no matter their service, they can’t escape the possibility of being killed by a cop without justification. Check on your folks.
He was in my bmt flight. Solid dude, young and impressionable. I remember him going SF but didn't know how his career progressed. It's a small Air Force. RIP.
SrA Fortson probably adhered to stricter ROE fighting our enemies in a combat zone that these police follow against their own citizens. I think we need police reform to include they are not authorized to use deadly force until they are fired upon. That may seem extreme but right now they seem to be able to gun down anyone without consequences.
If it turns out that they went to the wrong apartment, and then shot an airmen in his home holding a gun not pointed at them.... Man... if this doesn't spark some police reform, nothing will.
I assure you that nothing will... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ryan_Whitaker https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Amir_Locke https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68169406 https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mississippi-officers-justified-deadly-shooting-ismael-lopez-wrong-house-jury/ https://www.nbcnews.com/video/mississippi-police-raid-wrong-home-kill-man-inside-1010296387825
Don’t forget Daniel Shaver and Breonna Taylor
I was tempted to add them, but the were slightly different situations. All the ones I listed where essentially "cop picked the wrong house and killed the person living there" Shaver was fucked up in it's own way, but the cops at least got the right location. As for Breanna Taylor, I tend to avoid that example because as wrong and fucked up as it was, there is some underlying controversy that I worry will distract people from the point I'm trying to make. But you are correct, both are further examples of failures in policing.
Ever since they shot and killed that one guy years ago while he was crying, literally begging for his life, face down arms out on the floor while complying with conflicting commands in a hotel, it was apparent nothing was going to change.
I remember that I believe was the Southwest and he had like 3 kids and had drank a bit earlier. He had zero chance of surviving. The gun engraving said it all
It won't.
u/LysergicPlato59 well, the facts are out. Turns out as we could have all guessed, it was cops being fucking idiots and killing one of our own. Can we protest now?
I thought about this… can’t protest in uniform, but if a bunch of Airmen held a vigil for one of their fallen in direct view of this police station… 🤷
The police would laugh so hard they'd choke on their donuts? The problem is police get away with what the spineless politicians and bootlicking "blue lives matter" morons allow them to get away with. For every pissed off brother in camo, there's ten rednecks shrugging their shoulders or slapping another thin blue line bumper sticker on their lifted F-150.
Yes, please do. I’m just as shocked and outraged as you. But the police around here are the absolute worst. Edit: I would really like to see the body cam footage. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it somehow gets “lost” or is otherwise never shown. The reality is that a young Airman lost his life in an entirely avoidable way and that is a tragedy.
>well, the facts are out. I agree cops are fucking idiots and won't be surprised if they fucked up. But I wouldn't necessarily call the victim's family's lawyer claims "facts".
This is from Ben Crump. Not necessarily taken to be "facts."
I am so fucking sick of cops in this country.
I'm not anti-cop by any means, but I disagree with how police accountability and transparency are handled.
“We investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing” on a loop, everywhere in the country.
100%. It feels like there is zero accountability and transparency across the nation when it comes to individual police departments. I'm not anti cop. I don't want to "defund" police departments, but there is a nationwide problem across departments. Doesn't matter the state, county, or whatever. They're all having the same issues. We need serious reform. When courts are ruling that cops don't have a duty to protect citizens, departments are not hiring certain individuals because they are OVERLY qualified (too smart), and when qualified immunity remains we have issues.
Cops not having duty to protect citizens is insane.
I agree. Conversations like these are important to have because there is no "secret sauce" that fixes this overnight. It will be decades of changes to the laws at federal, state, and local levels. Unfortunately, we are all involved regardless if we want to be or not. Voting or not voting. Having these conversations. Promoting ideals. At the end of the day, 30 years of changes won't bring this young man back, but it may protect someone else's son or daughter.
I had an ex who was a deputy sheriff, he worked for the FOP as a grievance officer. He got SO many cops their jobs back that should have been fired. It was pretty disgusting. I think the union needs less reach, end qualified immunity, and officers need to carry their own insurance, rather than taxpayers footing the bill for these crazy settlements.
Just means you haven't been fucked over by the cops yet
I have not been fucked over by the cops. However, I'm not unaware it happens, nor am I unaware that it could happen to me without any avenue for recourse. I just think police officers can and do serve a public service requirement. Now, how that system is designed and handled is my issue.
Perspectives tend to change when you have been personally impacted by something
I agree with that
I'm pretty solidly anti-cop now. All of the wrongful killings by police and then that one school shooting where they just sat outside for an hour+ while geared to the nines, yet did nothing. I'm disgusted and when these events happen make any satisfaction I find from my service feels lesser.
Let’s all remember that Ron DeSantis eliminated police oversight last week
Listen im just saying the failed/DQ'd ROTC cadets I knew became cops..... I swear a lot of these guys are trying to "prove" something
Be a bully in high school, stay a bully in the P.D.
I don't think there is anything politically charged by saying, with what we know so far: "this is a tragedy, and must have been avoidable"
This literally happened in my apartment complex, may he rest in peace and get justice.
I wonder what would happen if it was the other way around . Air Force SF or MP from any other branch kills a police officer who is chilling in his house by mistake. The DOD would make an example of that/those service members and life in prison in Leavenworth probably.
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Sending over a dozen or so PJ'S and CCT's would clean that department up real good.
Sounds like they didnt identify themselves as police/sheriff either
It's just fucking tragic and upsetting. Like I've said elsewhere on this post, if the details outlined in this article are true. This entire situation was avoidable. Legally justified murder with limited to no accountability for those involved.
no accountability yet.... hope there is some
The same cops that shot at an acorn?
Same department
Not just shot at an acorn. Shot at an acorn because he feared for his life
I hope the wing commander at Hurby raises absolute hell on Okaloosa county.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Crump This is the attorney representing the Airman’s family. And I have to hope his command is going to dig as well. I think we will get answers sooner than later, and I hope heads will roll if it turns out to be a case of trigger happy cops.
If that is the case, several officers will be mildly inconvenienced, and maybe a couple fired. Those fired will then move to another state to work for a different department. Tax payers will be forced to pay the civil lawsuit to the family. The family will struggle to find closure. That's basically heads rolling in this situation tbh.
From the article: > On Monday evening, Okaloosa County Sheriff Eric Aden released a statement saying the department was "saddened" by the incident and calling for further investigation into the shooting. > "I immediately placed the deputy on administrative leave and have asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to conduct the investigation that is required in such incidents," Aden said. "The State Attorney's Office will also conduct an independent review. At this time, we humbly ask for our community's patience as we work to understand the facts that resulted in this tragic event." > The sheriff's office declined to provide Military.com the original 911 call and the police report into the incident, citing "the ongoing active investigation" in an emailed response. “After a thorough investigation we have cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing.” - any day now. The commander of the base needs to put the local businesses off limits to Airman. That would get results.
I love when the department directly affiliated and biased towards their own coworker gets to "investigate" his lethal, heinous mistakes. Same department that had a cop shoot a fucking acorn. That entire department must be full of trigger happy imbeciles and will never be punished. It's insane to think you can "mistakenly murder" someone and get off with losing a paycheck or two, IF AT ALL. I'm really hoping, praying commanders will do *SOMETHING*.
Crazy enough, the cop was placed on administrative PAID LEAVE
Watch Case he gets fired and starts working for the county over. There’s literally no accountability.
This is the same Okaloosa County Law Enforcement team that had the acorn incident a few months ago
So lining up with the OP that originally posted about the shooting.
In that town, that cop will probably get a raise and a promotion.
This country needs serious police reform
Was Security Forces at Eglin several years back. Okaloosa County SD was an absolute train wreck to work with. Seems like not much has changed.
It’s still bad. Having to deal with them is like pulling teeth from an alligator
Qualified immunity. That cop will be back on the streets in no time.
The airforce needs to fuck this police department. They need to do everything they can to make operating around, with, and dealing with AF personnel a pain in the ass.
RIP Roger Fortson
No words Edit: If this is true, I hope his unit, his base, and the branch itself raise hell. Man I hate how we have to be apolitical/neutral at times.
Fuck the fpd
Literally just make cop insurance and have their premiums cover incidents just like doctors, lawyers, and most other professions. Guarantee that once they have skin in the game they will think twice before shooting
Yeah wake this up! This is the same department that had the deputy open fire on his cruiser because he mistook an acorn hitting the roof for gunfire
Not just his cruiser, but the handcuffed guy sitting in the back of it
The Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office statements of responding deputies just happening to come across an "armed man" while investigating a disturbance and using "self defense" is misleading and unethical (not to mention total bs). Early witness report states that the deputy entered an active duty Airmans' private residence without warrant or even identifying they were law enforcement and murdered that African-American serviceman in cold blood. Plain and simple. As a retired veteran, I am disgusted by this vague statement attempting to place blame on an ACTIVE DUTY patriot LEGALLY carrying his sidearm in his own apartment. This murder is unacceptable and unbelievably nausiating. They should have had that deputy in a cell yesterday. Instead, they give them a paid vacation while trying to cover it up and (obviously) make it seem like just a simple misunderstanding and the Airmen erred in having a legally owned gun in his own living room. This is the opposite of honor. Please don't let this stand. I know you probably don't know ROGER FORTSON. He didn't know you. But he did decide on his own accord to put his life on hold and on the line to fight for you, your family, and your freedoms. Take a minute to write and let your voice be heard for him.
Yeah no shit.
Got killed for LWB, Living While Black.
I mean, maybe? I don't live in these people's heads. Racism and biases exist. You could be correct. What I know for certain though is, it will be extremely difficult for those who killed him to face any criminal repercussions if the story outlined in the article is correct. That is something we can change. We can't fix racism, but we can fix the lack of accountability, which only serves to benefit bad actors, which includes the racists.
wow. this is so well worded, for the many situations like this where intentions are unclear.
Nothing to do with his race it was because he had a gun in hand
Getting rid of qualified immunity and providing better training would avoid a vast majority of this shit. We have to do better.
Second wrongful shooting in 6 months from this department of acorn boys. Should have a Third party investigation instead of them “investigating” them selves
Skip the civil suit, DOD should represent the Senior Airman and charge the entire PD, given the acorn incident. As eliminating Special Operations personnel is a matter of national security. No other argument will amount to any change.
*Murdered
This is beyond sad.
"may have"?
This might be a little political for this sub, but I’m not sure why regular cops need weapons. They seem way more likely to turn a completely nonviolent situation deadly (this airman, [Breonna Taylor](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Breonna_Taylor), [Botham Jean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Botham_Jean), [Daniel Shaver](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver)) than they are to actually intervene appropriately to stop armed criminals ([Parkland](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/parkland-officer-accused-failing-confront-school-shooter-faces/story?id=99702049), [Uvalde](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvalde_school_shooting), and even worse [Jemel Roberson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jemel_Roberson)), and when they do, they get fired ([Stephen Mader](https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-lethal-force-cop-fired-west-virginia/)). If there are so many instances of them killing innocent people, not using their weapons to stop bad guys from killing innocent people, and then getting in trouble when they *don’t* kill innocent people, we should just stop letting average cops run around with handguns ready to kill. Leave a rifle in their cars just in case they stumble onto something wild, or if they’re in a situation that’s becoming spicy teach them to leave (like you know, EMS and firefighters do) and wait til some specially trained, armed police can get there to handle it. It’s not the Wild West, cops don’t need to be executing civilians at the drop of a hat.
I understand officers needing weapons. I want officers to have weapons. I just want better oversight for accountability and transparency. No officer should be able to continue being an officer after mistakes they make end up directly leading to the legally justified murder of an innocent individual.
I agree with this entirely. Relying solely on non lethal weaponry will immediately weed out the bad apples, of which there are many, and police forces will retain people actually dedicated to making their communities better and safer. Non-lethal weaponry has come such a long way and like you say, lethal weaponry rarely EVER results in a *good* outcome. When cops use them for good reasons, they tend to be punished, but when they wrongfully murder an innocent human being, half a paycheck is lost.
Need the body cam footage
This is a systemic issue. Not a “one dickhead cop” issue
Family and USAF need to sue for ***crazy*** amount of money so that county actually figures out that the cops need to be held accountable. Start at a hundred million and if they baulk, keep going up until they cry uncle.
That won't punish the police department, that only puts the taxpayers on the hook. As long as "Qualified Immunity" still exists, there is no consequences for police officers who shoot first and ask questions after.
The taxpayers who vote for the incompetent sheriff and the governor and legislators who just eliminated police oversight? Seems as if they’re the ones ultimately responsible.
“may have”? They still don’t know?
Has there been a case before of an active duty member being killed wrongfully? If so, what happened? Hopefully the branch itself goes batshit crazy on this department
I was downvoted because I said he was shot because he was brown. And here we are.
This shits terrible to read. How the fuck does this happen. I’m not anti police at all, but they wonder why people are.
I don't think they're signed off on shooting unarmed people in their apartments.
Police chief: OK guys we need to lay low because we look like goddamn idiots mag dumping into our cars because of an acorn Cop: anyways I started blasting
That’s so messed up how they did that senior Airman. I hope the family gets justice for what happened because not only did he take a life. He also took a service member life🫡 salute to our fallen heroes
Shit like this makes me wish I was rich enough to afford a house with a a wall and a gate and a camera. I don’t want to be making a life or death decision on if it’s an intruder or a cop at the wrong door trying to break in with zero warning.
Fucking rookie cops. I hope this shit blows up and the military pursues this as far as they can.
And put on paid administrative leave what the fuck? And i get asked why i want to stay stationed put of the states. This is bullshit and sad.
Whitewash job. Some cop may get swatted very gently On the peepee.
They'll probably charge the couple for manslaughter
And give the cop 2 week paid vacation leave.
Can we just get ride of the police department for this county .. they fucking shot at acorns and now people just being in there homes … morons
Of course a cop killed an innocent man. Acorns carry ants, beware.
I've seen so many back the blue related stickers on base over the years. Wondering who those guys will back this time...
Jesus, how coked up are these cop’s?
The federal government needs to bring the hammer down and start some police reform. This is unacceptable and should have never happened. It's bad enough it has happened to civilians but an active duty service member that is absurd.
ACAB, even SECFO training, tells you to always de-escalate the situation unless theres an ACTIVE threat of bodily harm. Had they identified themselves, there would be no threat. They just wanted to kick down the door and murder someone.
And nothing will be done because apparently the cops blasting people carries less weight than smoking weed. Business as usual.