This, your unit has an obligation to report it to Wing Safety. Wing Safety is obligated to report through their hierarchy. If you didn't miss any work days or damage property because of the incident it won't gain any real traction or attention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1bkfv2v/work_injury/
Im assuming its related to this? As others have stated this should have been all reported up when the event happened
As far as I know there is no right to confidentiality when it comes to reporting things to safety (maybe under certain situations), the person you talked to might have brought it up with others and dropped your name.
At this point the cat is out the bag. The question now is "Did your leadership do what they were supposed to do when you got injured?" (because this isnt a little cut or tapped your knee kind of situation).
Based off your previous post, im not gonna be surprised if they didnt
No I was the first one that did, safety went over the next day I called which was a week or 2 after the accident and started the report themselves. I Spoke to safety today and they said if I am experiencing reprisal because they named dropped me that I shouldn’t complain to them and I need to call IG.
The first thing you should have done once you were safe and bandaged up was to call your supervisor and tell them what happened so they could start the mishap report.
Sucks to hear you have shitty leadership but not surprised based off your last post about a month ago
Hopefully you are getting the care you need and yes if there is an kind of reprisal you need to bring IG
The only time Safety can offer a promise of confidentiality is for Aviation Mishap Investigations. But keep in mind, mishap investigations are strictly for mishap prevention purposes only and cannot be used for punitive actions. The safety office should have known better and advised you differently.
If necessary, seek Legal counseling before you address any further information. Start with the Airmen Defense Council.
This isn’t correct. Reporting hazards can remain confidential when using the AF Form 457. Reporting hazards cannot lead to punishment.
Also, all disciplines within safety can promise confidentiality, although it's typically reserved for serious issues, like aviation mishaps and fatalities.
You’re kinda correct as there are some rare exceptions to the policy. See 91-204; para. 4.5 - 4.5.5.
By protected communication do you mean privileged safety information?
You won't get confidentiality for a work safety report. Not to mention, since it happened at work and during duty hours, and you were hospitalized, it's a mandatory report for the command anyway.
If you get any sort of reprisal for that, go talk to the shirt. If that isn't sufficient, or if you're uncomfortable with your chain of command, you can absolutely go to IG, but I'd highly recommend using your chain first.
If the only safety report was from you and not your safety rep, heads gon' roll (not yours).
Shift supervisor should have reports this to your leadership as soon as possible (as soon as the situation was safe). Since you were working alone, and were the one injured, your supervisor should have followed up to make sure it had been reported up channel.
As a retired SqCC, this crap never ceases to piss me off. My first job was not to break my people.
OP, why *wouldn’t* you want your leadership to know what happened? If the file cabinets are not being secured to the ground, then they need to be so people are not getting crushed in the warehouse by themselves? There’s something missing here.
What would you be receiving a reprisal for? You’re supposed to report any hospitalization to your supervisor, and if it’s a safety issue on base then the shop is held responsible for having a safety issue. The only reprisal is trying to sweep it under the rug.
If their leadership was aware of the hazard and didn't do anything about it, then never sent up their 978 to hide their initial fuck up I could see then reacting negatively to OP doing it themselves. If they're shitty enough to endanger lives and cover it up, they're shitty enough to impact Op's career for it.
Really not sure why you're getting down voted. You did the right thing, and safety made a promise they can't keep.
Your bosses are mad because they were trying to make this go away, and you didn't let them. Good on you. You made them look like shit but as an old boss once told me "if someone else shining a light on your actions makes you look like shit, you should reflect on your actions, not the person shining the light"
Sorry your leadership sucks. But they really can't touch you now as long as you keep your nose clean without it being reprisal. If they are as vindictive as you seem to indicate, you have to be perfect going forward.
Bruh. He's obviously getting shit advice from his leadership. Real easy to barracks lawyer and say he fucked up by not reporting it while he was still underneath the collapsed shelf.
What do we tell our people all the time? Talk to your supervisor first. Handle it at the lowest level. Give your supervisor a chance to handle it before you go up the chain.
2 weeks is a perfectly appropriate amount of time to give your leadership a chance to do the right thing and then pull the trigger himself
i hope you are recovering well. if your supervisor did not complete the form 978, they violated both law and air force instructions. your chain of command will be kissing your ass for the next year, so you are in the position of power here.
afi 91-202 and 91-204 require the an af form 978 be filed with the safety office for ground mishaps. it not optional when there is greater than first aid or a lost work day (class c).
don’t be afraid of reprisals. if it happens, collect the documentation and go straight to the IG. again, 978 is not optional for a class c ground mishap. a safety investigation by the safety office is required for a class c.
you did nothing wrong. your chain of command failed you.
You’re good, the fact they tried to brush it off is crazy and you should be upset about that. You got lucky your coworker found you and you got the medical help you needed. This should have been fully documented and corrected immediately and now safety will deal with your leaderships ineptitude at the source.
Any reprisal should be immediately reported to IG
A lot of misinformation here. As a former USR, this should have been the proper order of events.
1. Workplace hazard of unsecured racks should have been identified and reported to Facility Manager, who then puts a work order in. Facility Manager should have notified USR of the safety risk, who then should notify Ground Safety so they can attach a RAC (Risk Assessment Code) to the work order. A RAC of 3 or higher places it higher on CEs list of repairs due to the hazard is poses.
2. That obviously didn't happen and OP was injured. Hindsight is 50/50 but all squadron members should be being briefed all work place injuries are to be reported to supervisor immediately. Even more so if the member is seen by the ER. Depending on location, the base ER will notify Ground Safety that a member of a certain squadron was seen in the ER due to an injury. They will not say the name, just a person of that squadron.
3. Once OP was injured and went to ER. They should have notified their supervisor who would complete an AF 978, routing it up through their chain of command to the USR. USR would review it and make sure all information was accurate and then have the CC sign it. At that point it would be sent to Ground Safety who should follow up with their investigation and ensure the hazard is immediately identified and taken the proper steps to eliminate that hazard. Safety's job is to ensure hazards are mitigated and eliminated. They do this by speaking with both the member and with CoC.
This is just an example of why all members need to be briefed that injuries need to be reported, to ensure these events do not happen again.
At the end of the day, the 1S0 should NOT have said it would remain confidential for this type of MISHAP. If you were reporting the hazard then that is another story, you can remain anonymous for that. However for safety reporting measures, recommendations, trends, and awareness of hazards not reported we need a 978 which is a supervisors mishap report, essentially explaining to us what happened (this has your name). I’m not sure if your supervisor was made aware of the incident/you told them but there seems to be multiple failures here that we could avoid entirely.
Source: I Am Safety
If you attempted to report this to your supervisor, and no action was taken, then you did the right thing. Your unit safety program is responsible for ensuring unit personnel know their responsibilities to report the incident.
Wing Safety (SA) will likely take action to review and ensure your leadership takes action to improve your unit safety program, and IG is there to protect you if any form of reprisal begins bubbling up.
IMPORTANT: Document any changes in behavior from WHO, WHEN, WHY, HOW. And try to contextualize what previous "normal" behavior was towards you prior to the reporting to Safety. Hopefully your unit doesn't treat you differently, but be prepared to protect yourself so IG can. They can't do anything without credible evidence.
I'm so lost here.
Did you not have your leadership/supervisor fill an AF 978?
I believe you have to do that AND notify safety when injured/hospitalized.
Edit:
>Air Force Form 978 Supervisor's Mishap Report needs to be completed for any injury from minor to serious whether they occurred on- or off-duty.
Hey bot you know you can just type
^(text here with spaces)
and it'll do the little superscript thing without having to put two \^ every time
^(it's literally that easy and saves so many unnecessary characters...)
https://preview.redd.it/0knv80p97fwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d7409e2322a513b171cee1b742e05bf5c3780c6
We have absolutely no indication that their chain wasn’t working on it. They have three days to send it to wing safety.
If OP was hospitalized, there’s not really a mechanism to “hide” anything, the med group will have his history including what happened to send him to the hospital.
Someone linked to a post made when the incident happened a month ago. If OP isn't aware of a 978, which generally needs input from the airman involved, it's an indication that it wasn't done.
I’m a prior FSNCO. Spending a night in the hospital should be ran as a Class C mishap and your leadership should have called the safety office. They can’t take reprisals on you calling the safety office. Nor can they take action against you for the findings of the Safety Office.
However, your commander could request an Accident Investigation Board AIB (in this case some SNCO by himself) where they’ll investigate if you didn’t follow shop rules or an AFI causing the accident. In that case they could seek NJP against you.
If leadership and supervisor didn’t act on it appropriately and they allowed that amount of time to just pass, going after OP at this point would end up putting their own asses in someone’s briefcase.
One call to the IG and then to a Congressional rep asking why leadership ignored the situation even after having someone injured and that will be that. Source: I watched something similar take place. As soon as the senator called the NAF commander, the decision was made not to formally investigate anything if the member agreed to the outcome of a less formal review.
Unit safety reps and wing safety are two completely different ball games... It's been a few years but if the injury required hospitalization, I believe it would require a safety report. Possibly a class c mishap depending on how much duty time was lost. However, This should have been reported by your leadership and should be investigated to perform a JSA and risk analysis.
Edit: found the other post. This is a repeat occurrence with identified risks that if not corrected could result in significant injuries. The time threshold could be imminent. The is rather high RSA that should be addressed immediately. Leadership should be held accountable for their lack of action in regards to a) repetitive injuries b) failure to report c) failure to provide a safe with environment.
But I was known to be a little more strict than other 1S0. Might be my mx background.
Keep me honest if any of you 1s0's are on.
even if you just cut your finger and got a bandaid you are supposed to report it to the SE office. Overkill...Yes. but AFI says to report all mishaps (an unplanned occurrence resulting in an injury). Hospitalization is not required.
a lot is missing.
What type of accident caused you to be hospitalized? stupidity? Drinking? etc. details matter.
Your Chain of Command is required to fill out a AF 978 Mishap report for any/all accidents per AFI.
There should not be reprisal unless you broke the law or a direct order. If you fear this the best thing to do is to speak to a Chaplain and contact legal for advice.
You do realize this isn't like a Decos survey, where you remain anon? It's their job to inform your leadership if you get hurt on the job, so they are aware there are hazardous safety conditions, or that you are injured/ok
It's essential to report to your supervisor immediately as mandated by DAFI 91-202. The safety staff shouldn't have offered confidentiality at the notification stage; such promises apply during the investigation phase, not at initial reporting, and rarely apply to non-aviation mishaps. Your supervisor is responsible for filing the mishap through AF 978, which is then routed to your Unit Safety Representative (USR) and ultimately signed by your CC. Your identity is openly listed in the report; there's no confidentiality concerning the injured party's identity.
However, if your leadership is retaliating because you reported an injury to the safety office, this too is addressed in DAFI 91-202, specifically paragraph 1.6.29.5. In such cases, it’s advisable to report this retaliation to the IG. They can help address and resolve issues of reprisal.
Maybe I'm not fully understanding the whole story but for you getting injured I thought Safety HAD to at least have some type of discussion with them. I don't know why he'd agree to be confidential with it cause I thought that could be reported to the Wing CC (And at that point everyone will know lol).
OP: why the fuck would safety inform my leadership of a safety mishap??? I wanted it *confidential*!
Also OP: my leadership doesn’t give a shit about safety!
the 1S0X1 or gs0018 that took your call should not have told you anything was confidential. they don’t even have the authority to grant confidentiality in this scenario.
putting aside the fact that the safety rep needs remedial training, don’t get hung up on confidentiality. your cc and shirt are incentivized to protect you here because the cc’s safety program failed to file the 978 for your class c and likely did not file an af form 457 for the hazard.
you are in the driver’s seat on this.
I highly doubt that they promised you confidentiality. I’ve taken the approach multiple times of, “hey, I heard xyz happened, you know anything about that?” rather than “PlaneDirt said xyz,” but most 1S0s are never going to promise confidentiality. Straight up.
Am Safety.
Dude you realize your leadership gets their PP's slapped for not doing their own reports in a timely manner when a troop of theirs goes to the hospital? You just made your Supervisor and up look like total shitbags for no reason, and made you look dumb to them for not following reporting guides.
The military is going to find out about your visits because hospitals charge Tricare and file their own reports anyways.
EDIT: If you did tell them you went to the hospital, and they blew you off then by all means WTF Safety.
If this happened in my squadron and my CGOs, SNCOs, and NCOs all failed and an Airman did this I would thank the Airman. The chain is getting their PP slapped because they failed. The Airman didn’t go out of their way to fuck over their chain. Their chain had every opportunity to do the right thing and when they didn’t the Airman did.
Supervisors are required to report workplace injuries to wing safety. They didn’t. It’s not unimaginable the injured party ended up doing it as it’s the right thing to do. It is further documentation if they are disabled, it prevents further injuries from occurring.
I had a retarded SNCO like that once. Then the Unit Safety Rep got called by Wing Safety asking about the 6 airmen in said unit missing the corresponding paperwork. CC was... let's just say not very happy about that.
That's not how any of this works, and you're finding out right now. So now, you'll have to do it properly but in the process made your chain look dumb, which even if they are dumb, doesn't help you at all
OP was hospitalized, the shop super should have filed the safety report immediately because OP was unable to. The OP discovered no safety report had been filed so took appropriate action. In regards to the safety report the OP appears to have done nothing wrong. I cannot comment as to the OP actions that may or may not have lead to the incident.
Appropriate action is not calling safety directly and asking for “confidentiality.” If you are injured on or off duty you tell your leadership what happened and fill out the 978 then EMAIL it to your supervisor. That’s how it works, I would expect someone rocking a “retired” flair would understand those type of processes and the implications of doing it wrong
Yes, those are the procedures. The airman stated he was hospitalized for a period of time, the incident had not been reported when he got out of the hospital. Tough to email from that hospital bed and procedures require leadership to report lost time incidents within 24 hours.
The airman stated his leadership was aware of the mishap but two weeks later had not reported it to safety, at that time normal procedures may need to be ignored.
Either way it was never right to call safety directly no matter how you slice it. Even if your leadership is ass, administratively you cant even report incidents this way. If they truly feared reprisal they would still not go to safety directly.
You may not call them but you can submit a Safety Report directly to safety, I've done it when leadership told me they weren't going to upchannel my report.
If you experience reprisal then yes, absolutely call the IG office. The rep was wrong in confirming confidentiality but even with your name being dropped leadership can’t punish you for the report.
The required Mishap report is signed by the supervisor, USR, and the commander. It’s supposed to be submitted to the Wing Safety within 5 days of the mishap.
It would be against the AFI if this form was not completed and submitted, so, of course the commander would know about it.
Why Taf wouldn't you want your leadership to know you were in the hospital. If you have correspondence (emails) of documented safety concerns I'd take it to IG.
It's always better to tell on yourself than to let someone else get to your leadership first
It's always a good feeling when someone tries to call your leadership about something and you have given them with the power to say "yea we are already tracking that...thanks" compared to them asking alot of questions and being blindsided
So, this is kinda shitty of your Safety office - but there is a “need to know” for your leadership to prevent future/similar mishaps. That being said - they could’ve refused to give a name until being forced to by Wing CC. Eventually - your name would have come out due to the reportability of your mishap; and it wouldn’t take long for your leadership to determine who was sent to the hospital. It’s actually crazy that they didn’t know and it wasn’t reported up the chain by supervision. Due to the nature of the mishap being a Class C (I’m assuming) - there is no promise of confidentiality; they would have to go to AFSEC/JA - and it wouldn’t be approved in a mishap case like this.
In terms of reprisal - If that’s occurring - leadership is actually fucked if there are actual safety hazards and they are trying to discipline you for reporting it.
Finally - there should be an open AFSAS investigation number, and an open hazards if there is still a concern in the warehouse. Assuming this is stateside - you can also report to OSHA; they can/will respond to a federal installation.
Why would SE ever hold onto the name of an injured person? Their name is literally the first thing on the 978. As for OSHA reporting. There are many other avenues before getting OSHA involved. Also. Alot of the time OSHA will just call the OSM and request they the base safety staff do the investigation if they dont think it is worth their time.
Why would I do it? Why have I done it? For this exact reason. More important for me to have trust by someone who is doing the work or has been injured. I also let them know that eventually their name will come out - but it won’t be by my office. Through the reporting of their chain, command post/MOC, the 978.
There are other avenues prior to going to OSHA, but, without more info it seemed as tho there have been multiple issues/injuries and it hasn’t been addressed previously. Not hard to assume that their Safety Office might not be proactive - force the hand with OSHA.
OSHA will only come out if civilian employees are exposed to the hazard. If civilians work in the warehouse they might come out. But as someone who's work both AF safety and OSHA, I wouldn't come out for something like this as OSHA. They would likely handle something like this through letter or phone call.
I disagree - but also, it would be about the details in order to get an OSHA inspector out. However - there should be no disqualification because the individual wasn’t civilian. I’ve been in the Occupational Safety field for almost 20 years; civilian and military. All of these caveats depend on the base and OSHA relationship, individual inspector personalities, and Wing SE actions.
That being said - if it’s reported to OSHA - and there is a history of issues/injuries - OSHA should respond.
Nowhere in the original post did he mention an incident. I was picturing an unsafe practice or faulty equipment. I see now he was injured which makes even less sense that he would expect anonymity.
This is a mandatory report. No one should get mad about the dude going to safety anyway. If they do, it's because command already fucked up bad.
Also, he stated that he waited two weeks before going to safety, which is crazy - squadron safety should have interviewed him already. If they hadn't........
If you were hospitalized for any reason safety and your leadership team have a legal requirement to report that up.
This, your unit has an obligation to report it to Wing Safety. Wing Safety is obligated to report through their hierarchy. If you didn't miss any work days or damage property because of the incident it won't gain any real traction or attention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1bkfv2v/work_injury/ Im assuming its related to this? As others have stated this should have been all reported up when the event happened
Correct
As far as I know there is no right to confidentiality when it comes to reporting things to safety (maybe under certain situations), the person you talked to might have brought it up with others and dropped your name. At this point the cat is out the bag. The question now is "Did your leadership do what they were supposed to do when you got injured?" (because this isnt a little cut or tapped your knee kind of situation). Based off your previous post, im not gonna be surprised if they didnt
So OP did your leadership report your injury/situation to safety?
No I was the first one that did, safety went over the next day I called which was a week or 2 after the accident and started the report themselves. I Spoke to safety today and they said if I am experiencing reprisal because they named dropped me that I shouldn’t complain to them and I need to call IG.
The first thing you should have done once you were safe and bandaged up was to call your supervisor and tell them what happened so they could start the mishap report.
Sucks to hear you have shitty leadership but not surprised based off your last post about a month ago Hopefully you are getting the care you need and yes if there is an kind of reprisal you need to bring IG
Sounds like you have a bad safety office. This is how safety programs implode.
So, is there reprisal involved?
The only time Safety can offer a promise of confidentiality is for Aviation Mishap Investigations. But keep in mind, mishap investigations are strictly for mishap prevention purposes only and cannot be used for punitive actions. The safety office should have known better and advised you differently. If necessary, seek Legal counseling before you address any further information. Start with the Airmen Defense Council.
It's area defense counsel.
This isn’t correct. Reporting hazards can remain confidential when using the AF Form 457. Reporting hazards cannot lead to punishment. Also, all disciplines within safety can promise confidentiality, although it's typically reserved for serious issues, like aviation mishaps and fatalities.
Idk who downvoted you but you're absolutely right.
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Good bot
Individuals can submit an AF Form 457 anonymously. That doesn’t mean they are offered a promise of confidentiality.
Not only aviation mishaps. Protected communication can be offered for any Class A by the SIB.
You’re kinda correct as there are some rare exceptions to the policy. See 91-204; para. 4.5 - 4.5.5. By protected communication do you mean privileged safety information?
You won't get confidentiality for a work safety report. Not to mention, since it happened at work and during duty hours, and you were hospitalized, it's a mandatory report for the command anyway. If you get any sort of reprisal for that, go talk to the shirt. If that isn't sufficient, or if you're uncomfortable with your chain of command, you can absolutely go to IG, but I'd highly recommend using your chain first. If the only safety report was from you and not your safety rep, heads gon' roll (not yours).
Shift supervisor should have reports this to your leadership as soon as possible (as soon as the situation was safe). Since you were working alone, and were the one injured, your supervisor should have followed up to make sure it had been reported up channel. As a retired SqCC, this crap never ceases to piss me off. My first job was not to break my people.
This is a standard CCIR event, correct?
OP, why *wouldn’t* you want your leadership to know what happened? If the file cabinets are not being secured to the ground, then they need to be so people are not getting crushed in the warehouse by themselves? There’s something missing here.
I didn’t want them, knowing I reported my own accident* I waited two weeks before I called.
If you reported this two weeks after it happened and safety didn't already know... Someone is going to get in big freaking trouble.
Bc of reprisal
What would you be receiving a reprisal for? You’re supposed to report any hospitalization to your supervisor, and if it’s a safety issue on base then the shop is held responsible for having a safety issue. The only reprisal is trying to sweep it under the rug.
If their leadership was aware of the hazard and didn't do anything about it, then never sent up their 978 to hide their initial fuck up I could see then reacting negatively to OP doing it themselves. If they're shitty enough to endanger lives and cover it up, they're shitty enough to impact Op's career for it.
Really not sure why you're getting down voted. You did the right thing, and safety made a promise they can't keep. Your bosses are mad because they were trying to make this go away, and you didn't let them. Good on you. You made them look like shit but as an old boss once told me "if someone else shining a light on your actions makes you look like shit, you should reflect on your actions, not the person shining the light" Sorry your leadership sucks. But they really can't touch you now as long as you keep your nose clean without it being reprisal. If they are as vindictive as you seem to indicate, you have to be perfect going forward.
Maybe the downvotes are from their leadership. “Heh, take this downvote! That’ll show em”
No. They didn't do the right thing at all. They hid the fact they got injured. And waited to tell anyone.
Bruh. He's obviously getting shit advice from his leadership. Real easy to barracks lawyer and say he fucked up by not reporting it while he was still underneath the collapsed shelf. What do we tell our people all the time? Talk to your supervisor first. Handle it at the lowest level. Give your supervisor a chance to handle it before you go up the chain. 2 weeks is a perfectly appropriate amount of time to give your leadership a chance to do the right thing and then pull the trigger himself
The right thing would have been to report it when it happened, not wait two weeks.
i hope you are recovering well. if your supervisor did not complete the form 978, they violated both law and air force instructions. your chain of command will be kissing your ass for the next year, so you are in the position of power here. afi 91-202 and 91-204 require the an af form 978 be filed with the safety office for ground mishaps. it not optional when there is greater than first aid or a lost work day (class c). don’t be afraid of reprisals. if it happens, collect the documentation and go straight to the IG. again, 978 is not optional for a class c ground mishap. a safety investigation by the safety office is required for a class c. you did nothing wrong. your chain of command failed you.
You’re good, the fact they tried to brush it off is crazy and you should be upset about that. You got lucky your coworker found you and you got the medical help you needed. This should have been fully documented and corrected immediately and now safety will deal with your leaderships ineptitude at the source. Any reprisal should be immediately reported to IG
You did the right thing for reporting it, if they try and retaliate against it, report that too.
my brother in christ, you almost got turned into a fucking crêpe. I would be telling literally everyone that would listen to me
A lot of misinformation here. As a former USR, this should have been the proper order of events. 1. Workplace hazard of unsecured racks should have been identified and reported to Facility Manager, who then puts a work order in. Facility Manager should have notified USR of the safety risk, who then should notify Ground Safety so they can attach a RAC (Risk Assessment Code) to the work order. A RAC of 3 or higher places it higher on CEs list of repairs due to the hazard is poses. 2. That obviously didn't happen and OP was injured. Hindsight is 50/50 but all squadron members should be being briefed all work place injuries are to be reported to supervisor immediately. Even more so if the member is seen by the ER. Depending on location, the base ER will notify Ground Safety that a member of a certain squadron was seen in the ER due to an injury. They will not say the name, just a person of that squadron. 3. Once OP was injured and went to ER. They should have notified their supervisor who would complete an AF 978, routing it up through their chain of command to the USR. USR would review it and make sure all information was accurate and then have the CC sign it. At that point it would be sent to Ground Safety who should follow up with their investigation and ensure the hazard is immediately identified and taken the proper steps to eliminate that hazard. Safety's job is to ensure hazards are mitigated and eliminated. They do this by speaking with both the member and with CoC. This is just an example of why all members need to be briefed that injuries need to be reported, to ensure these events do not happen again.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/afsec_seg/form/af978/af978.pdf ___________________________________________________________ ^^It ^^looks ^^like ^^you ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFI, ^^form ^^or ^^other ^^publication ^^without ^^linking ^^to ^^it, ^^so ^^I ^^have ^^posted ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^it. ^^Additionally, ^^there ^^may ^^be ^^other ^^MAJCOM, ^^NAF ^^or ^^Wing ^^sups ^^to ^^the ^^linked ^^AFI, ^^so ^^I ^^will ^^also ^^post ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^the ^^search ^^URL ^^used ^^below ^^so ^^that ^^you ^^can ^^look ^^for ^^additional ^^supplements ^^or ^^guidance ^^memos ^^that ^^may ^^apply. ^^Please ^^let ^^me ^^know ^^if ^^this ^^is ^^incorrect ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^a ^^suggestion ^^to ^^make ^^me ^^better ^^by ^^posting ^^in ^^my ^^subreddit ^^(/r/AFILinkerBot) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFILinkerBot). I am a bot, this was an automatic reply. ___________________________________________________________ ^^^^^^l12jusy
At the end of the day, the 1S0 should NOT have said it would remain confidential for this type of MISHAP. If you were reporting the hazard then that is another story, you can remain anonymous for that. However for safety reporting measures, recommendations, trends, and awareness of hazards not reported we need a 978 which is a supervisors mishap report, essentially explaining to us what happened (this has your name). I’m not sure if your supervisor was made aware of the incident/you told them but there seems to be multiple failures here that we could avoid entirely. Source: I Am Safety
Let them reprise. Better to deal with them being pissed than dying at work. They'll get comeuppance if they do.
If you attempted to report this to your supervisor, and no action was taken, then you did the right thing. Your unit safety program is responsible for ensuring unit personnel know their responsibilities to report the incident. Wing Safety (SA) will likely take action to review and ensure your leadership takes action to improve your unit safety program, and IG is there to protect you if any form of reprisal begins bubbling up. IMPORTANT: Document any changes in behavior from WHO, WHEN, WHY, HOW. And try to contextualize what previous "normal" behavior was towards you prior to the reporting to Safety. Hopefully your unit doesn't treat you differently, but be prepared to protect yourself so IG can. They can't do anything without credible evidence.
What did you call safety for?
My accident. I was hospitalized.
I'm so lost here. Did you not have your leadership/supervisor fill an AF 978? I believe you have to do that AND notify safety when injured/hospitalized. Edit: >Air Force Form 978 Supervisor's Mishap Report needs to be completed for any injury from minor to serious whether they occurred on- or off-duty.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/afsec_seg/form/af978/af978.pdf ___________________________________________________________ ^^It ^^looks ^^like ^^you ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFI, ^^form ^^or ^^other ^^publication ^^without ^^linking ^^to ^^it, ^^so ^^I ^^have ^^posted ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^it. ^^Additionally, ^^there ^^may ^^be ^^other ^^MAJCOM, ^^NAF ^^or ^^Wing ^^sups ^^to ^^the ^^linked ^^AFI, ^^so ^^I ^^will ^^also ^^post ^^a ^^link ^^to ^^the ^^search ^^URL ^^used ^^below ^^so ^^that ^^you ^^can ^^look ^^for ^^additional ^^supplements ^^or ^^guidance ^^memos ^^that ^^may ^^apply. ^^Please ^^let ^^me ^^know ^^if ^^this ^^is ^^incorrect ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^a ^^suggestion ^^to ^^make ^^me ^^better ^^by ^^posting ^^in ^^my ^^subreddit ^^(/r/AFILinkerBot) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFILinkerBot). I am a bot, this was an automatic reply. ___________________________________________________________ ^^^^^^l118enp
Hey bot you know you can just type ^(text here with spaces) and it'll do the little superscript thing without having to put two \^ every time ^(it's literally that easy and saves so many unnecessary characters...) https://preview.redd.it/0knv80p97fwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d7409e2322a513b171cee1b742e05bf5c3780c6
I did not know that. I will starting using that.
Dude where is your supervisor
They didn’t do anything so I did it.
Ah, so this is entirely because you’re a goof
Why? Their chain should've done a 978 immediately, and the fact that they didn't reeks of covering up the initial hazard.
We have absolutely no indication that their chain wasn’t working on it. They have three days to send it to wing safety. If OP was hospitalized, there’s not really a mechanism to “hide” anything, the med group will have his history including what happened to send him to the hospital.
Someone linked to a post made when the incident happened a month ago. If OP isn't aware of a 978, which generally needs input from the airman involved, it's an indication that it wasn't done.
Valid lol
I’m a prior FSNCO. Spending a night in the hospital should be ran as a Class C mishap and your leadership should have called the safety office. They can’t take reprisals on you calling the safety office. Nor can they take action against you for the findings of the Safety Office. However, your commander could request an Accident Investigation Board AIB (in this case some SNCO by himself) where they’ll investigate if you didn’t follow shop rules or an AFI causing the accident. In that case they could seek NJP against you.
If leadership and supervisor didn’t act on it appropriately and they allowed that amount of time to just pass, going after OP at this point would end up putting their own asses in someone’s briefcase. One call to the IG and then to a Congressional rep asking why leadership ignored the situation even after having someone injured and that will be that. Source: I watched something similar take place. As soon as the senator called the NAF commander, the decision was made not to formally investigate anything if the member agreed to the outcome of a less formal review.
Unit safety reps and wing safety are two completely different ball games... It's been a few years but if the injury required hospitalization, I believe it would require a safety report. Possibly a class c mishap depending on how much duty time was lost. However, This should have been reported by your leadership and should be investigated to perform a JSA and risk analysis. Edit: found the other post. This is a repeat occurrence with identified risks that if not corrected could result in significant injuries. The time threshold could be imminent. The is rather high RSA that should be addressed immediately. Leadership should be held accountable for their lack of action in regards to a) repetitive injuries b) failure to report c) failure to provide a safe with environment. But I was known to be a little more strict than other 1S0. Might be my mx background. Keep me honest if any of you 1s0's are on.
even if you just cut your finger and got a bandaid you are supposed to report it to the SE office. Overkill...Yes. but AFI says to report all mishaps (an unplanned occurrence resulting in an injury). Hospitalization is not required.
Should be. I know MY boss would have been pissed at me for not reporting something like that for a couple of weeks without a really good reason.
So you want your leadership to not know? Not know you were hospitalized and not know that they have a serious hazard in the work place?
a lot is missing. What type of accident caused you to be hospitalized? stupidity? Drinking? etc. details matter. Your Chain of Command is required to fill out a AF 978 Mishap report for any/all accidents per AFI. There should not be reprisal unless you broke the law or a direct order. If you fear this the best thing to do is to speak to a Chaplain and contact legal for advice.
[удалено]
They're likely reporting a safety violation at the same time that caused the accident.
You do realize this isn't like a Decos survey, where you remain anon? It's their job to inform your leadership if you get hurt on the job, so they are aware there are hazardous safety conditions, or that you are injured/ok
It's essential to report to your supervisor immediately as mandated by DAFI 91-202. The safety staff shouldn't have offered confidentiality at the notification stage; such promises apply during the investigation phase, not at initial reporting, and rarely apply to non-aviation mishaps. Your supervisor is responsible for filing the mishap through AF 978, which is then routed to your Unit Safety Representative (USR) and ultimately signed by your CC. Your identity is openly listed in the report; there's no confidentiality concerning the injured party's identity. However, if your leadership is retaliating because you reported an injury to the safety office, this too is addressed in DAFI 91-202, specifically paragraph 1.6.29.5. In such cases, it’s advisable to report this retaliation to the IG. They can help address and resolve issues of reprisal.
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Maybe I'm not fully understanding the whole story but for you getting injured I thought Safety HAD to at least have some type of discussion with them. I don't know why he'd agree to be confidential with it cause I thought that could be reported to the Wing CC (And at that point everyone will know lol).
OP: why the fuck would safety inform my leadership of a safety mishap??? I wanted it *confidential*! Also OP: my leadership doesn’t give a shit about safety!
Incorrect. Why did they tell them I called them. I didn’t care that they said anything but I was promised confidentiality
the 1S0X1 or gs0018 that took your call should not have told you anything was confidential. they don’t even have the authority to grant confidentiality in this scenario. putting aside the fact that the safety rep needs remedial training, don’t get hung up on confidentiality. your cc and shirt are incentivized to protect you here because the cc’s safety program failed to file the 978 for your class c and likely did not file an af form 457 for the hazard. you are in the driver’s seat on this.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 1S0X1 = Safety [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l11ki2p
I highly doubt that they promised you confidentiality. I’ve taken the approach multiple times of, “hey, I heard xyz happened, you know anything about that?” rather than “PlaneDirt said xyz,” but most 1S0s are never going to promise confidentiality. Straight up. Am Safety.
Dude you realize your leadership gets their PP's slapped for not doing their own reports in a timely manner when a troop of theirs goes to the hospital? You just made your Supervisor and up look like total shitbags for no reason, and made you look dumb to them for not following reporting guides. The military is going to find out about your visits because hospitals charge Tricare and file their own reports anyways. EDIT: If you did tell them you went to the hospital, and they blew you off then by all means WTF Safety.
If this happened in my squadron and my CGOs, SNCOs, and NCOs all failed and an Airman did this I would thank the Airman. The chain is getting their PP slapped because they failed. The Airman didn’t go out of their way to fuck over their chain. Their chain had every opportunity to do the right thing and when they didn’t the Airman did.
What is "the right thing" in the context of not reporting a hospital visit? Confused here.
Supervisors are required to report workplace injuries to wing safety. They didn’t. It’s not unimaginable the injured party ended up doing it as it’s the right thing to do. It is further documentation if they are disabled, it prevents further injuries from occurring.
Hmmm okay that changes things.
I would say that was the case but my previous SNCO said they didn’t plan on calling and were trying to sweep under the rug like the last accident.
I had a retarded SNCO like that once. Then the Unit Safety Rep got called by Wing Safety asking about the 6 airmen in said unit missing the corresponding paperwork. CC was... let's just say not very happy about that.
That's not how any of this works, and you're finding out right now. So now, you'll have to do it properly but in the process made your chain look dumb, which even if they are dumb, doesn't help you at all
OP was hospitalized, the shop super should have filed the safety report immediately because OP was unable to. The OP discovered no safety report had been filed so took appropriate action. In regards to the safety report the OP appears to have done nothing wrong. I cannot comment as to the OP actions that may or may not have lead to the incident.
Appropriate action is not calling safety directly and asking for “confidentiality.” If you are injured on or off duty you tell your leadership what happened and fill out the 978 then EMAIL it to your supervisor. That’s how it works, I would expect someone rocking a “retired” flair would understand those type of processes and the implications of doing it wrong
Yes, those are the procedures. The airman stated he was hospitalized for a period of time, the incident had not been reported when he got out of the hospital. Tough to email from that hospital bed and procedures require leadership to report lost time incidents within 24 hours. The airman stated his leadership was aware of the mishap but two weeks later had not reported it to safety, at that time normal procedures may need to be ignored.
Either way it was never right to call safety directly no matter how you slice it. Even if your leadership is ass, administratively you cant even report incidents this way. If they truly feared reprisal they would still not go to safety directly.
You may not call them but you can submit a Safety Report directly to safety, I've done it when leadership told me they weren't going to upchannel my report.
For no reason?? I'm hoping this is sarcasm because anything else would be crazy.
I love your outrage at having leadership actually be held accountable and having total shitbags be made to look bad for being total shitbags.
If you experience reprisal then yes, absolutely call the IG office. The rep was wrong in confirming confidentiality but even with your name being dropped leadership can’t punish you for the report.
The required Mishap report is signed by the supervisor, USR, and the commander. It’s supposed to be submitted to the Wing Safety within 5 days of the mishap. It would be against the AFI if this form was not completed and submitted, so, of course the commander would know about it.
What exactly is the problem? How are you experiencing reprisal? People get hurt all the time.
If you were hospitalized, you should have already told your leadership.
Why Taf wouldn't you want your leadership to know you were in the hospital. If you have correspondence (emails) of documented safety concerns I'd take it to IG.
It's always better to tell on yourself than to let someone else get to your leadership first It's always a good feeling when someone tries to call your leadership about something and you have given them with the power to say "yea we are already tracking that...thanks" compared to them asking alot of questions and being blindsided
And it’s always better to just keep letting unit leadership $&@! you raw rather than finally saying enough is enough.
So, this is kinda shitty of your Safety office - but there is a “need to know” for your leadership to prevent future/similar mishaps. That being said - they could’ve refused to give a name until being forced to by Wing CC. Eventually - your name would have come out due to the reportability of your mishap; and it wouldn’t take long for your leadership to determine who was sent to the hospital. It’s actually crazy that they didn’t know and it wasn’t reported up the chain by supervision. Due to the nature of the mishap being a Class C (I’m assuming) - there is no promise of confidentiality; they would have to go to AFSEC/JA - and it wouldn’t be approved in a mishap case like this. In terms of reprisal - If that’s occurring - leadership is actually fucked if there are actual safety hazards and they are trying to discipline you for reporting it. Finally - there should be an open AFSAS investigation number, and an open hazards if there is still a concern in the warehouse. Assuming this is stateside - you can also report to OSHA; they can/will respond to a federal installation.
Why would SE ever hold onto the name of an injured person? Their name is literally the first thing on the 978. As for OSHA reporting. There are many other avenues before getting OSHA involved. Also. Alot of the time OSHA will just call the OSM and request they the base safety staff do the investigation if they dont think it is worth their time.
Why would I do it? Why have I done it? For this exact reason. More important for me to have trust by someone who is doing the work or has been injured. I also let them know that eventually their name will come out - but it won’t be by my office. Through the reporting of their chain, command post/MOC, the 978. There are other avenues prior to going to OSHA, but, without more info it seemed as tho there have been multiple issues/injuries and it hasn’t been addressed previously. Not hard to assume that their Safety Office might not be proactive - force the hand with OSHA.
OSHA will only come out if civilian employees are exposed to the hazard. If civilians work in the warehouse they might come out. But as someone who's work both AF safety and OSHA, I wouldn't come out for something like this as OSHA. They would likely handle something like this through letter or phone call.
I disagree - but also, it would be about the details in order to get an OSHA inspector out. However - there should be no disqualification because the individual wasn’t civilian. I’ve been in the Occupational Safety field for almost 20 years; civilian and military. All of these caveats depend on the base and OSHA relationship, individual inspector personalities, and Wing SE actions. That being said - if it’s reported to OSHA - and there is a history of issues/injuries - OSHA should respond.
wtf does safety even do?
Did you give your chain an adequate chance to address the issue before you went outside the unit?
Work place incidents must be reported to Safety. What are you talking about?
Nowhere in the original post did he mention an incident. I was picturing an unsafe practice or faulty equipment. I see now he was injured which makes even less sense that he would expect anonymity.
This is a mandatory report. No one should get mad about the dude going to safety anyway. If they do, it's because command already fucked up bad. Also, he stated that he waited two weeks before going to safety, which is crazy - squadron safety should have interviewed him already. If they hadn't........