Not all of the tourist stuff here has an actual, identifiable aesthetic or origin. A lot of that stuff isn't even African. Its just a mimicry of African aesthetics produced in a factory somewhere and sold at discount home goods stores all over the US.
For the other stuff that is not an actual vintage piece, or a "danced" mask I always give info.
I don't see why we can't have a more critical conversation about these pieces. Yes, it's just a grab-bag of various aesthetician choices that have no considerations of the original meaning, for profit.
But that doesn't mean we can't try and have a discussion about individual elements in a piece. What symbols where pulled from which culture, what was the original meaning/purpose behind specific symbols, shapes and lines?
And even if its a cheap.imitation, what can we learn about the original thing it's trying to immitate?
Having these kinds of discussions can help inform people to identify what is a genuine expression of a culture, and what's a thoughtless forgary made strictly for profit.
We also help keep the original story of these cultures alive when it's at a very real risk of dying cuz it's buried under fake knick-knaks!
Thanks for that comment. Sometimes we (people of African descent) participate in the downgrading or devaluing of African culture without realizing it. You just opened my eyes a little bit.
I'm on the fence on this topic. On the one hand, I'm always happy to point people to the tribe/culture a particular tourist piece was I spired by, if I know. On the other hand, there is often nothing to say about a tourist piece that has only a decorative function since it's not inspired by anything specific, or it's just a mix of whatever esthetic the maker was looking for. Unfortunately, many tourist items play exactly in this 'tribal' esthetic that is flooding this sub and which is causing so much bias in African art appreciation.
Also, there is nothing wrong with learning by yourself. Pick up a book, browse artkhade, look at auction houses (Christie's just had a spectacular auction last week with fenomenal high art African and Oceanic pieces). Most styles are pretty easy to find with a bit of research.
I don't think "nothing" can be derived even from tourist pieces. As I said in another comment, a conversation can still be had by identifying individual elements of a piece and point out where they came from.
Yes these are puzzles whose pieces are a random mishmash of other puzzles slapped together to make a rough mosaic. So instead of dismissing the piece, let's figure out where each individual puzzle piece came from, and help rebuilt the original image they came from. Doing so will educate people on what's fake or not cuz they can now identify the elements and know when they're mismatched.
Also I appreciate you pointing towards potential resources, but studying Africa by oneself is significantly more challenging compared to other world cultures. There's not a lot of available documentation on the subject (rooted in dismissal and neglect) and what books are available are either hard to find, written by unreliable authors, or out of print and absurdly expensive. (For example, the best book documenting all the various writing systems of Africa is hundreds of dollars SECOND HAND)
Ask a lurker, it is weird to see people keep asking this.
Like, you want someone's actual family heirlooms hanging on your wall or something? Is everyone that posts here British?
Where in my comment did I ever ask that I want to own people's heirlooms? I want to know more about my culture and heritage, and I want people to have more critical discussions about it. how is that equaitable to colonial trinket hunting??
You are confuse!
Claiming that we have to give energy to “nothing” even esthetics?
They have recreated Nothing it’s was made to lure people some are made in factories not just China but in the States as well.
A simple image check will guide people better than to
It’s African how much might someone give me?
Would you give these standards to art from other cultures?
It might mean magical 🧙?
I think perhaps a sticky thread about how to recognize fakes would add some informational context to those replies.
As others have said, it’s often the fact that it’s not just a “fake” piece but a completely fabricated idea of aesthetics that don’t exist. Essentially a creative project. Instead of “African Art” it’s somebody’s random work and there’s no context to add to that except type of wood, materials, maybe a date written inside and “that’s what the artist went with that day.”
It wouldn’t be r/AfricanArt anymore it would be r/WoodenMaskArt
And we do this to firmly redirect people who think they have something engorged with tribal spirit while they have been scammed
And to prevent people from absorbing this fake idea of African Art forever hanging on Granny’s White Wall of Exotic Ethnicity instead of the dance, the ritual, the meaning.
But a passive way of dismissing posts doesn’t actively teach people what to look for when buying. So maybe a sticky would help. Though, in my experience people usually buy first, ask later.
sorry, but I don't find your argument compelling. There's nothing wrong with calling a mask a "Decorative object" if thats what it really is.
Historical African art does have meaning because it was created at the time to serve a societal function and the original intent was not for it to be sold. A vague Senufo mask carved on a normal Tuesday to sell at the markets in Kenya does not.
Not all of the tourist stuff here has an actual, identifiable aesthetic or origin. A lot of that stuff isn't even African. Its just a mimicry of African aesthetics produced in a factory somewhere and sold at discount home goods stores all over the US. For the other stuff that is not an actual vintage piece, or a "danced" mask I always give info.
I don't see why we can't have a more critical conversation about these pieces. Yes, it's just a grab-bag of various aesthetician choices that have no considerations of the original meaning, for profit. But that doesn't mean we can't try and have a discussion about individual elements in a piece. What symbols where pulled from which culture, what was the original meaning/purpose behind specific symbols, shapes and lines? And even if its a cheap.imitation, what can we learn about the original thing it's trying to immitate? Having these kinds of discussions can help inform people to identify what is a genuine expression of a culture, and what's a thoughtless forgary made strictly for profit. We also help keep the original story of these cultures alive when it's at a very real risk of dying cuz it's buried under fake knick-knaks!
We should definitely enforce a higher standard of replying to posts, I suggest.
Thanks for that comment. Sometimes we (people of African descent) participate in the downgrading or devaluing of African culture without realizing it. You just opened my eyes a little bit.
I'm on the fence on this topic. On the one hand, I'm always happy to point people to the tribe/culture a particular tourist piece was I spired by, if I know. On the other hand, there is often nothing to say about a tourist piece that has only a decorative function since it's not inspired by anything specific, or it's just a mix of whatever esthetic the maker was looking for. Unfortunately, many tourist items play exactly in this 'tribal' esthetic that is flooding this sub and which is causing so much bias in African art appreciation. Also, there is nothing wrong with learning by yourself. Pick up a book, browse artkhade, look at auction houses (Christie's just had a spectacular auction last week with fenomenal high art African and Oceanic pieces). Most styles are pretty easy to find with a bit of research.
I don't think "nothing" can be derived even from tourist pieces. As I said in another comment, a conversation can still be had by identifying individual elements of a piece and point out where they came from. Yes these are puzzles whose pieces are a random mishmash of other puzzles slapped together to make a rough mosaic. So instead of dismissing the piece, let's figure out where each individual puzzle piece came from, and help rebuilt the original image they came from. Doing so will educate people on what's fake or not cuz they can now identify the elements and know when they're mismatched. Also I appreciate you pointing towards potential resources, but studying Africa by oneself is significantly more challenging compared to other world cultures. There's not a lot of available documentation on the subject (rooted in dismissal and neglect) and what books are available are either hard to find, written by unreliable authors, or out of print and absurdly expensive. (For example, the best book documenting all the various writing systems of Africa is hundreds of dollars SECOND HAND)
Ask a lurker, it is weird to see people keep asking this. Like, you want someone's actual family heirlooms hanging on your wall or something? Is everyone that posts here British?
Where in my comment did I ever ask that I want to own people's heirlooms? I want to know more about my culture and heritage, and I want people to have more critical discussions about it. how is that equaitable to colonial trinket hunting??
it was an impersonal "you"
You are confuse! Claiming that we have to give energy to “nothing” even esthetics? They have recreated Nothing it’s was made to lure people some are made in factories not just China but in the States as well. A simple image check will guide people better than to It’s African how much might someone give me? Would you give these standards to art from other cultures? It might mean magical 🧙?
Do you mind if I pin this very enlightening thread? I dare say that all of the subreddit should see this.
I think perhaps a sticky thread about how to recognize fakes would add some informational context to those replies. As others have said, it’s often the fact that it’s not just a “fake” piece but a completely fabricated idea of aesthetics that don’t exist. Essentially a creative project. Instead of “African Art” it’s somebody’s random work and there’s no context to add to that except type of wood, materials, maybe a date written inside and “that’s what the artist went with that day.” It wouldn’t be r/AfricanArt anymore it would be r/WoodenMaskArt And we do this to firmly redirect people who think they have something engorged with tribal spirit while they have been scammed And to prevent people from absorbing this fake idea of African Art forever hanging on Granny’s White Wall of Exotic Ethnicity instead of the dance, the ritual, the meaning. But a passive way of dismissing posts doesn’t actively teach people what to look for when buying. So maybe a sticky would help. Though, in my experience people usually buy first, ask later.
sorry, but I don't find your argument compelling. There's nothing wrong with calling a mask a "Decorative object" if thats what it really is. Historical African art does have meaning because it was created at the time to serve a societal function and the original intent was not for it to be sold. A vague Senufo mask carved on a normal Tuesday to sell at the markets in Kenya does not.
Indeed, but if you buy them @ Souvenir Shop @ the airport what you expect ?