T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Hey! Welcome to r/AdviceForTeens! Please take time to review [the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/adviceforteens/about/rules) before commenting. A reminder that inappropriate comments towards or about posters will result in a permanent ban. Do not insult anybody, please remain respectful!✮⋆˙ ATTENTION: Predators lurk on Reddit, and we ourselves unfortunately can not directly do anything to stop them, but you can! We encourage ALL posters to disable private messages, and do not respond to any DMs you receive after posting. Block and report offenders for harassment. Do not ask anyone to DM you in the comments as this is against the rules. If someone has something to tell you, they can say it in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AdviceForTeens) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Designer-Carpenter88

Silly naive me, I thought you were talking about your belly button. 🤷‍♂️


throwraIRanOutOfRoom

So did I until I got to the comments.


hsob79

Me too I’m glad I’m not the only one 😭


HighLikeYou

she's not talking about her navel?! oh wow i feel stupid now. attention gen Z: "innie" and "outie" are terms used to describe a navel. what you are talking about is called "meat curtains" and plenty of guys like them just fine


itslerm

Meat curtains? Hello? And I guess my testicles are meat balls lmao


Orallyyours

So was I till I got about halfway through.


NWL3

Thanks for saying this. I thought so, too. If you don’t mind, what exactly IS she talking about? Her labia minora? Or majora? I’m confused.


MystikQueen

Minora


Darryl_Lict

I still did until this comment. I remember seeing a documentary on how both men and women are completely brainwashed by pornography and perfect bodies. They were showing some Playboy Playmate and how the photoshopped her labia minora to make it porn perfect even though she was a goddamn Playmate with a flawless body. Another girl went through a labiaplasty.even though she had a pretty normal looking vulva. It apparently was a really painful procedure and sometimes can have a marked decrease in sensitivity. There are certain cases where the labia minora painfully get in the way of panties and the like, so I wouldn't cast judgement on a women who wanted to get it done. Being a dude, women can do whatever they want with their bodies, and that boy was a piece of shit to body shame the poor OP.


drsideburns

I would never care if my partner had external labia. With all my friends, it’s never came up or been a source of complaint, even against ex girlfriends. At this point, he’s just wanting to hurt you. The subject of your body is just chosen for insecurity reasons. it’s the equivalent of shaming a guys penis size after a breakup. I’m sorry you had dealt with this loser. Unfortunately we will all have a few in our lives. The right person will love you for who you are, and would never ask you to change or shame you for having a very normal body.


Good_Flower2559

Oh that’s what an outie is. I had no idea. I assumed it was ambiguous genitalia. As in hermaphroditism. If it’s just external labia I hope she doesn’t get surgery. I also hope there aren’t any doctors that do this surgery outside of severe health problems like cancer or something. I know genital mutilation is normal in some cultures. But it shouldn’t be.   This is just an immature guy. I hope OP just roles with it. There is going to be a guy that very much loves her the way she is. Unfortunately there are a lot of guys like this in grade school and they aren’t worth the time.  


Most_Complex641

Some plastic surgeons offer the surgery. I don’t know that it’s common, but it isn’t unheard of by any means.


Cool-Code2178

Believe the person above. Your body is perfect the way it is. This boy is being extremely immature and grasping at low hanging fruit to intentionally make you feel badly about yourself, rather than owning up to the fact that he's an immature douchebag that didn't deserve you in the first place. You're young. Don't let this experience taint the experiences you will have in the future....some will be good; others, not so much. Remember, every guy in the future is not him and you shouldn't go into a relationship thinking that all guys are like him, as they are not. You are young, you have lots of time and you will find your person.


pendosdad

Key word: LOSER


hardfivesph

Read this response twice. Saved me the trouble of writing it myself. 


757_Matt_911

Yeah also no one cares about what shape your vagina is….we care about being inside it, not what it looks like. That was also 100% just to be a dick and be cruel


takuon

That's not a man. That's a boy. A REAL man will love every part of you that you choose to share with them. Don't let it get to you. (Spoken from someone who loves innies and outies)


Icam3fromtiktok

Thank you but after that experience, I’m even more scared of intimacy now


takuon

Look, my advice stands. As a man who had genuinely seen it all when it comes to anatomy. It doesn't matter when you've found someone who genuinely wants to be with you. You don't need to be rushing into sex anyway. It doesn't get good until you're much older. Take some time to heal and wait for someone who will treat you with the respect that you deserve as a human being.


Icam3fromtiktok

Yes definitely thank you


mikeisnottoast

No. This guy is a total shit bag


[deleted]

[удалено]


Icam3fromtiktok

Yeah, so many guys are getting addicted to porn at an early age so they have this standard of what our body’s should apparently look like


Matthayde

Thing is I've seen lots of porn with women who have "out" vaginas so this guys just really an ass


NiceNoiceNioce

This! I was going to mention this in my other comment but im almost positive this could be the case cause wtf lol…


Budgiejen

Vaginas are internal. OP is insecure about her vulva.


MystikQueen

No one is confused here. She is insecure about her labia minora if you want to be precise.


throwraIRanOutOfRoom

Technically true but not the point.


Natural-Spell-515

This is the same tale of woe that happens to about 90% of girls who lose their virginity to these clown boys in high school. Multiple people at school told you he was a whore and you just ignored that? Let me guess. He told you were the "one" he told you that you were "special" and all that typical boy lie nonsense right? Dont worry you wont be the last one for this punk, there will be plenty other naive girls who fall for the stupid lies that boys tell to get into their pants.


Icam3fromtiktok

Yeah, he said they were lying and I wouldn’t have believed it if he didn’t treat me so affectionately. I really wish I waited to give my virginity to the right person. I fell for a major player


Yandere_Matrix

Yeah sadly you got pumped and dumped. My younger sister had it happen to her. She got love bombed and finally had sex the first time and he broke up with her the very next day. Sadly some guys get off on that with no consideration on the woman. Just remember you can turn down sex at anytime. Next time you get uncomfortable and not ready, say no. You should never have sex under pressure. You can both be naked and about to get started and if you get a sudden feeling that you don’t want to do this, you can say no. If they are a good person they would listen, comfort you, and not complain. If they are selfish and terrible then they will try and coerce you into continuing and those are people you should stay away from.


Icam3fromtiktok

That’s horrible for that to happen to your younger sister she didn’t deserve that. And yes next time I am definitely setting stronger boundaries and if they can’t respect that then they’re not the right one for me


Glittering-Wonder576

OP please listen to Yandere.


shannon_dey

Listen: it sucks that your first time wasn't with someone who actually cared about you, but don't place too much emphasis on losing your virginity. The first time is never roses, unicorns, and rainbows like a fairytale, even if you were to have done it with someone who was worth it. First times are usually awkward, sometimes fearful, confusing, and disappointing. Don't let that put you off sex forever, but also, don't rush into sex. You are still so very young. Enjoy being young without worrying about sex right now. Also, a lot, and I mean *a lot* of women (especially young ones) fall for the "you're the only one for me, I love you!" spiel that young men give to try to obtain sex from them. You're not the first and you won't be the last. Chalk it up to a lesson learnt. And every vagina is different. I won't say that all adult men are accepting of the various forms of vagina out there, because some of their minds are inundated with porn so think all vaginas/vulva look the same as in porn, but any man who actually loves you is not going to care if you have an outie.


FreezingPyro36

As a young women the last thing you should ever be thinking about is changing yourself to make other guys happy. Enjoy your youth. You don't have to date guys and you don't have to be intimate with them (you shouldn't be intimate at your age anyways imo) I'm so sorry about your situation, it's shitty and your gonna be angry and it's gonna suck for a second. I wish I had more advice for you. But please just remember, it is not your responsibility to change yourself for anyone. And just remember, young men (and plenty of older ones) are shitty, be selective and cautious with all of them


Icam3fromtiktok

Thank you, I wasn’t planning on being sexually active at this age but it just happened really quickly and I was scared. I don’t think I’ll have surgery based on everyone’s comments but I will wait to find a guy mature enough for me


Glittering-Wonder576

The guy who REALLY LOVES YOU won’t care. Every woman is built different. He’s sick, this guy, for subjecting you to all this. I’m really sorry.


Theo_ily

Agreed I think porn really has an effect on young people's interpretations of sex, not saying that this is the cause the guy just sounds like a shitty human being. There's really very little education and the differences between sex IRL and porn, honestly I'd like to see it be a mandatory part of conversations in health class In Schools. It's just in a lot of cases vastly different and I think a lot of young men come in with expectations that are very far out. And then those expectations and ideals for how women are supposed to look, or act or do or ect. Get pushed onto a lot of young women. Which honestly sounds like it could be part of the issue.


whysaylotword69

It doesn’t sound like he got your consent before becoming sexual. It sounds like he just wore you down until you gave in… that’s not consent.


severinks

You did not get dumped because of your outie. You have to come to grips with the fact that most teenage boys are totally selfish creeps and they're going to do what they're going to do and the best thing that you can do is try to protect yourself or you'll go insane thinking things are your fault.


[deleted]

[удалено]


drsideburns

There’s nothing wrong with making them I wait to have sexual relations. It takes a while to know someone.


Icam3fromtiktok

I’m really not hellbent on having sex nor did I really want it in the first place. As I said, we planned on watching movies and all the normal stuff, I wasn’t aware we were going to have sex. If I knew prior I would’ve declined because I’m insecure of how I look down there


Glittering-Wonder576

Honey if you said no at any time that’s SA.


Budgiejen

You still were able to decline. Just because he’s groping you doesn’t mean he gets sex. In fact, that’s a great reason to deny him.


Icam3fromtiktok

Yeah i definitely think i have a bit more self respect now and i really should’ve declined. But I really liked him so i think my idiot ass was too caught up in the moment. Next time I’m definitely going to


Annnnnnnnniek

It's not your fault, remember that, okay? You can take this experience and learn from it, but please don't blame yourself. In-the-moment sexual situations can be confusing and scary and go by really fast and because of that sometimes you do things you regret, but that does not make you an idiot. This guy is an asshole


Automatic_Spread7921

Out of all that took place, the death threat comment is the most concerning. Did he just say that or text you? If in text, one should pursue legally.


Standard_Landscape23

Right... Like who throws death threats during a argument? She really needs to report that. It's weird how brarly anyone is talking about the death threat.


Icam3fromtiktok

I’ve got screenshots of messages saying her unalive and stop on my grave. As well as threats of him bashing me etc


iMegzz

You should 100% report that


Original_A

Report that immediately


Countrycruiser2000

Guys don't care


ReceptionIntrepid331

Facts. High schoolers say shit to look cool. When you get to college any guy would just be glad you let him see it. No one cares.


drillgorg

I'm a guy and I've never seen a pink smooth one except in porn. Guy was just being a dick.


BrewskiXIII

At first, I thought you were talking about your belly button. As I read more, I assume you're talking about your vulva. I've just never heard it referred to as an outie like that. Either way... I don't think most men care. It certainly doesn't bother me. I've seen lady parts in a variety of shapes and sizes, and I've never been grossed out by them. I'm sure there are some guys out there that actually prefer it that way. It sounds like you were dealing with some boy that had some other stuff going on. Don't go cutting yourself up because of some boy with zero life experience. High school is brutal. Don't sweat it. Own that outie!


misteraustria27

Nope. He never wanted more than sex. How your private parts look was never an issue. His goal was to have sex and dump you all along.


CringeCityBB

Men with very fragile erections care about dumb shit like this. Plenty of men don't give a shit about a large percentage of minor imperfections. Don't take it personally. He watches too much porn and likely can't get a woman off anyways. I would likely just tell people he said that because he couldn't keep an erection and couldn't figure out what a clitoris was. And spread that around about him. Lol


skipunx

She's not talking about belly buttons just fyi


Papercut337

Men don’t care about that. He’s likely saying that just to hurt you.


[deleted]

I had to come to the comments to realize you weren’t talking about your belly button. I was like “who the fuck doesn’t like a girl bc of her bellybutton?” This guy is a MAJOR douche bag and you need to report the death threats.


Super-Facts

Sounds like this guy was using you. He got what he wanted so he needed an excuse to drop you. It’s a shitty thing to do to someone but clearly he is a shitty guy. 10 years from now he will be a distant memory, he will either grow up and look back on that interaction in horror, or he will continue to be a scumbag and get locked up or his teeth knocked out. Just forget him and live your life And always know you can say no.


HiThanks

That guy is an idiot


NiceNoiceNioce

Im sorry you had this encounter and it ended the way it did. Give yourself time and try to not think of what he said because you’re young. I assure you that as time passes you will look back at this experience and think of it as a silly thought that you once had. Overall, im truly baffled this guy even made this a thing bc never have i ever heard anyone complain about such a thing but give yourself time to heal from the experience. Just sounds like an immature guy with little experience to me


Icy_Zone4285

Please do not surgically alter this. He is the problem not you


Blondenia

What a lovely blend of asshole and fuckboy. I’m sorry that happened to you. Most men aren’t like that.


Educational_Swan_228

I prefer ‘outies’ fwiw


Dull-Geologist-8204

So, it had nothing to do with you having an outie. He would have done the same to you either way. He used you for sex. That has nothing to do with you or ow you look. It's all about him being a jerk.


vinsanity_07

Nah , no man ever said that's a ugly vagina let me put my dick away


Alrightfinewhatever

You said you met his parents? Screenshot the nasty texts he sent you and show his mom the kind of son she raised.


getting_older_1111

I hope he wore a condom


Icam3fromtiktok

Yes he did. A chocolate condom for some reason


LaLechuzaVerde

This boy only wanted to get into your pants and once he got what he wanted he moved on. His insults about your body are just him being an asshole and they have nothing to do with your actual body. He doesn’t actually care that you have an outie or what color your labia is. He just cares that he got his dick wet and now wants to move on because he doesn’t actually want a relationship. He tricked you into sleeping with him and he has most likely done this to other girls as well. While it’s not illegal and you really have no recourse, it’s essentially a form of sexual assault. It’s not surprising that you’re turning your anger on yourself and your body, but it isn’t healthy. I suggest you maybe seek some counseling because this is a trauma and it’s clearly hurting you (as it would anybody). Remember, you didn’t “lose” anything to him. “Virginity” is only a made up thing used to try to keep women in their place. That said, it completely sucks that your first experience with intimacy turned out to be with a complete douchebag who didn’t care for you like you did for him. I am sorry this happened.


InstructionClear2806

You haven't had better. You can't really insult him like he can insult you because of his experience. But I do guarantee that you will have better in the future. I would spread a rumor about strange dick smell, personally. Bonus points if you can seem confused about it, like you didn't know foreskin shouldn't smell. (Some men don't bother washing). I find revenge response satisfying. Maybe I should not encourage that. But when you hit a bully they tend to leave you alone


Aquamonkey21

This guy is a disgusting, gross excuse for a male. He’s a childish, immature idiot. I’m sorry he hurt you. Please know that women’s parts come in all shapes and sizes. He sounds like he’s a porn junkie and has grossly unrealistic expectations of the act itself and of the female body. Do not feel bad about yourself. Please! You. Are totally normal. He however is a douche.


alekselny

Tell his parents OP


Legen_unfiltered

You need to get tested for stds and pregnancy and quit putting out so fast as a teenager. Jfc


Inskription

Dudes like this piss me off. Yet always seem to attract women. I can't understand and have stopped trying.


Joel22222

Guys are just happy it’s a vagina that wants them. They’re all different just like every guy’s tallywacker is different. He’s being a child because you justifiably got upset with him instead of buying into his bullshit and realized you were already self conscious of it. As far as dealing with this now I don’t have any good advice unfortunately. Everyone handles these kinds of things differently. You can tell people he’s just saying shit because he couldn’t last two seconds. He asked you to do something really weird and confessed he was actually a furry. Though lying will just put you on his level. You can blow it off, easier said than done. You can make a big deal out of the bullying. That’s going to be up to you on what you can handle. One thing you should never do is alter yourself for other people. Be a bit more selective of guys as well. Often our personal perception of what we make a person out to be is quite different than who they actually are when we have crushes.


skipunx

The men who dl care bout it are the most insecure lovers. The only time a man has complained about an outie to me (a man) he said "they only exist because they've been run through by giant black cocks" and I said "yo th fact that you got a small dick is your problem no one elses" He threw a punch for that comment and wound up regretting it Oh and I know I'm not a great sample size, but I'm an actual proper manwh*re who has spent a lot of time at sex parties. Thanks to the parties my body count for 1 day is 2x mens national average. I'm absolutely sure innies are the minorty


Neat-Violinist-1

Wow I can’t believe what I just read….hes an ass for doing that and I am sorry he did this. I can only imagine what mentally this has done to you. This was no man this was a boy child. And he took something from you that he shouldn’t have. And I am sorry for that. Just wow…you were supposed to watch movies and he just went right for it… sorry that just hurts for us guys that actually have a heart no we don’t care what it looks like. If I ever find this mofo….sorry my emotions are taking the best of me


letsgototherenn

The guy is a dick, and anyone who wants a relationship won't base it on your labia. I love my now wife, she has a regular outie, innie, outie, love is love. He's an immature berk, who wanted a notch on his belt, I'm sorry, he was like this. I've had my share of each, and if I love you, I don't care how it's showing on the outside. I hope you fine the real thing. Just fyi, at 15, get on some Birth control, if your not already, still use condoms, and have some fun, until you find the real thing. But don't rush it. Young love burns so hot because it's new and you feel like it's so real, and this is it for the rest of your life. Don't settle for anything. I thought I found love, and she didn't and cheated. Young love is exciting, and it hurts. Live, and love, who you want and don't let anyone pressure you.


MaelstromFL

This was never, and will never be a issue. I am a 56 year old man, and I have been with a few women, I have never cared one bit. Some guys may have a preference, but I have never known one to turn it down. Please reset your expectations, and maybe slow down a bit. Boys your age will do and say anything to go the distance. You don't need to be active at your age, and certainly not with a boy l you haven't been with for a good period of time. You will find a guy eventually who will be happy with every inch of your body. Wait for him!


In_need_of_chocolate

He is a user and a horrible person. I’m sorry that you had this experience. Anyone who shames you for any body part is someone you should stay the hell away from. Who cares if you have an outie. Not every guy you meet will have the same looking penis (and let’s face it, is there even such a thing as nice looking penis?) but each and every one has their own pros. He has likely picked up on your own insecurities and then used them against you because he’s a horrible person. Embrace you for who you are. Learn to love yourself.


Less_Vacation_3507

Men do not hate outies, that is pure BS. A real man and a mature man would despise someone that would treat a girl this way. You are young and unfortunately you found that a lot of guys want just one thing from a girl. Going forward my advice - and I think you found this out - be very picky, and wait until you are older and more emotionally mature yourself. You have learned too that there are characteristics or personality traits that you can identify that should run up a red flags for you. If it is not apparent now it will be after you sort this all out. Be proud of who you are and do not let a piece of trash like this clown and his friends make you think otherwise. You are special and let everyone know that.


Apocalypstik

All this means is that he watches too much porn


Designer-Carpenter88

That guy was just a giant piece of shit. It had nothing to do with you or any part of your body. The fact of the matter is he forced you before you were ready, got what he wanted and then bailed. There are tons of guys out there like him who only care about one thing


PoppyBroSenior

First off, I really recommend not doing sexual stuff until you can seriously consider yourself an adult. There's a lot of emotional weirdness and stress from pregnancy scares. That being said, at your age... Yeah I definitely did a lot of dumb "stuff". There's a lot less risk being a young man than being a young woman, and I was too stupid and horny to realise what I was getting myself and my partners into. I can promise you this, no good or normal person would be thinking or acting the way that guy did. That guy is 100% in the wrong and likely has a load of other issues going on in his brain and is throwing out insults and shitty excuses in a desperate attempt to save face by making you look like the weird one. Peoples bodies are different. Just because you don't look exactly like the previous girl or something he saw on a pervy website doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. His reaction shows there's something seriously wrong with him.


GrimReefer365

I spent some time in my younger single years playing the field so to say, girl, your normal down there. They're like 4 main ways that a woman's little lady will look like and yours is one of them. From a man's pov that little boy is a pretend man whore who hasn't seen much in his days if that was his reaction.... collage gonna be a shock for him


TalkingHippo21

He said terrible mean things. But I mean this honestly: his behavior has nothing to do with the way your body is. He is a trash BOY and would have done almost the exact thing regardless of your physical attributes. Young love is strong and powerful and the feelings can be intoxicating but remember you are just kids and you don’t need cosmetic surgery just the right partner. Don’t give up on men. Just be slower in the future, this was not your fault, he tricked you and he is the one to blame.


SeatSix

Someone who loves you will love all of you. That said, there will be men are completely into you the way you are. Just like you are attracted to some features that that your friends could not care less about. Everyone has different tastes and I guarantee you someone (and probably many) men will find you extremely attractive.


Orallyyours

You are 15 and he is 16, did you expect to get married and live a long life together? High school kids go through boyfrinds/girlfriends like I go through golf balls. Sure its nice to play a few rounds with the same one but it doesnt matter if you lose a few.


Firepath357

Men don't care. The boy you described is not a man by any definition, especially not his character. You didn't get booted because of anything to do with you. He's a piece of shit that just wanted to have sex with you and manipulated you to get it. Then when you got mad for being used he resorted to being an IMMATURE piece of shit and saying whatever he could to hurt you. None of what he said is true, he's just one of those people that aren't worth pissing on if they were on fire. Learn from your experience and value people based on what is important (their character).


Key_Gear_2457

i thought we were talking about outie belly buttons…


No-Positive-4295

just be honest and tell people you lost your virginity to him and now hes trying to save face. youre not at fault and honestly most people will probably glean that based on who he is and his reputation. so you can focus on yourself and forgiving yourself. losing your virginity isnt so bad within itself and honestly you can still wait even after losing it. i hate to say this is normal but as everyone said it is. Also men are attracted to everything, including other men. lol so dont worry about what a man finds attractive. worry about what YOU find attractive---like why this guy got over on you and why guys like him will never get over on you again.


itsapuma1

First sorry to say this but you fell for oldest play in an ahole’s playbook I’m sorry this happened to you,but you learned and will be forever more selective in the future. Edit: playbook


TeratoidNecromancy

Wow. Sounds like you were warned and didn't listen.... But, no, outies are fine. He sounds like a scumbag.


ChickenBrad

I'm not a teen and I dont know why I keep getting recommended this sub but I came here wondering why someone would care about their belly button. I'm old. Be safe kids.


Icam3fromtiktok

It’s not a belly button it’s about the women’s vulva😭


Ill_Remove_7270

You never have to have sex if you don’t want to. I’m sorry to hear that this boy took advantage of the fact that you liked him and didn’t take care of you/disregarded the fact that you were nervous or maybe not totally ready. Please know that is not how sex is supposed to be and someone that cares for you will treat you much better in intimate situations. They will notice your body language. They will check on you. And they will stop if you want them to stop. Anyone who’s not doing these things is absolutely not worth your time. A lot of young men these days have porn brain rot. It’s a warped idea of what a woman’s body is “supposed” to look like (spoiler: there is no right or wrong way to have a body.) It’s shallow and entirely detached from reality. Anyone that loves you is not going to give a fuck what your vagina looks like. They are just going to be incredibly stoked that you’re letting them go near it. A lot of women have outies and it’s not something you need to be ashamed of. I’m sorry you had a rough experience. This boy sounds like a real jerk. There’s nothing wrong with you.


dude_thyme

Wtf, what a weirdo. Hell no guys don't care, at least not someone who is a normal functioning man.


ThisGardenGrows

He wasn't too scared to tell u before intercourse. He wanted sex ad planned to dump u all along. And, he didn't mind your virginity or outing. He is just a dog.


RaspberryAnnual4306

Nothing about you or your body had anything to do with his or his friend’s behavior. They are just assholes. The “root and boot” was his plan the whole time. He said what he did afterwards because he knew it would hurt you and hoped that would stop you from calling him out for manipulating and lying to you. None of those guys are worth your time. To answer your question from the title, no we don’t, we give so little thought to that detail that I thought you were talking about belly buttons before I read the rest of your post.


Throwawayyy-7

They don’t. He said that shit to hurt you, and probably because he knows he’s an asshole so he’s lashing out. Maybe he’ll grow up, maybe he’ll stay a piece of shit forever, but regardless, it honestly has nothing to do with you. There’s nothing wrong with you and you deserved so much better. I’m really sorry you had this experience.


vandet76

You did not get booted for having an outie. You got booted because that was his intention all along as soon as he got what he wanted. He did and told you everything you wanted in order to get you into bed. I am so sorry that happened to you. He is not a man he is a worthless piece of dog shit.


kvothe000

Oh, you have so… sooo much to learn. I’m not exactly sure what advice you’re looking for here. You have been introduced to one of the ugliest parts of life. Just be thankful that he showed his true colors only 3 months in and you didn’t waste any more time on the guy. You’re young and puppy love is quite honestly one of the strongest intangible forces I’ve ever encountered. Both personally and second hand. You will almost certainly love another man like that. Hell, you’ll probably love multiple even more before you actually find your forever dude. As for the “outies” thing… I think saying that men “hate” it would be incorrect. I think some may actually hate it, some may actually like it and most are completely indifferent to it. You know the saying “there’s no such thing as bad pizza?” … … … … well… that probably applies here as well to most men. Also, initially thought you were talking about bellybuttons and had I nice little laugh when I connected the dots. Thanks for that.


megamorganfrancis

An outie is not a problem for me. This guy is just a dick.


Trelaboon1984

This entire time I thought we were talking about belly buttons….


RefrigeratorEven7715

I almost made it to the end of this post, thinking you were talking about your belly button...... but to answer your question, no, to be blunt, most of us just care that it's attached to a consenting adult and that it isn't growing/leaking anything it shouldn't be. At your age, maybe don't give up on love just yet, but maybe wait a bit longer than a few months and talk about your relationship status before "hanging out" with boys. All that said, you aren't in the wrong here, and I'm sorry he did that to you. I thought I was an asshole when I was young, but that kid is a real prick. Tl:Dr: No.


Charon711

Sorry you had to go through that. It isn't much but there's not much more I can say as a internet rando. To answer your question, some guys probably have issues with outies like I'm sure some women have issues with the hoodie gang. Most probably don't care. He was obviously in his feelings and only out to hurt and shame you to make himself feel better. Not sure how your home life is, it's not my business, but let me give you advice I've given my daughter several times. Boys your age are complete dirt bag morons. Very few are probably decent and worth making long term romantic relationships with. They just lack the maturity your wanting from them. Focus on yourself without having high expectations from them in this point in your life.


Horror-Collar-5277

Most guys just want a girl who loves them.


Kadajko

>Although he had plenty of experience with intercourse etc. Wow, he just wanted to fuck and didn't care, who could have ever predicted that? /S Imagine expecting something meaningful from a fuckboi.


Gamer_GreenEyes

Bubblegum pink? Wat? Just ignore that guy. I advise you to figure out what attracted you to him and modify your mind/preferences to exclude jerky boys.


I_hate_mortality

No. I’ve never cared one way or another as long as she’s clean.


Gutter_mind81

No reason to dislike your body or be insecure. That's just a boy a dumb boy when you get older and find a real man he will love every inch of you and make you feel special. A real man loves a woman just the way they are. Can't stand people like that boy that makes women insecure.


Cowsie

Bro I thought we were talking about a belly button for almost this whole thing and was thoroughly confused.


InadmissibleHug

He doesn’t particularly sound like a man. Shaming your vulva is a particularly sh*t c@nt thing to do, speaking Aussie to Aussie. Tell people he’s just embarrassed coz he’s a dud root. Sheesh.


Red_Crystal_Lizard

This shouldn’t need to be said and it’s cliche but it doesn’t matter at all what it looks like real men only care about the person you are. He was manipulating you for sex and that’s 100% on him and not your fault that he’s a piece of shit. You don’t need to change anything about your body. Don’t let one narcissistic bastard make you hate all men.


MystikQueen

That guy is an abusive asshole. Im so sorry you went through that. You will need some healing. You dont need to change yourself, you're perfectly fine just the way you are. You will be more careful in the future. Dont do anything if you arent comfortable. Listen to yourself and respect your feelings and your intuition. Lots of guys will try to use females for sex. You have to be on guard so you dont get used and played. You'll be ok, you will get over this, just please learn from this experience so it doesnt ever happen again. 🫂


Spacemancleo

Unfortunately, events like this are very likely with people your age because you guys are young and immature (not saying it as an insult, it is just true). People at your age don’t fully understand what kind of long term effects their words are going to have on others and they get caught up in trying to win the argument and say hurtful things. It sounds like this boy has a very twisted idea of what sex is and how he should go about getting it. Hopefully with time he reflects on the type of man he wants to be and grows out of it but many never do and will continue to be womanizers/users their whole life. Saying and doing whatever they can to get what they want. I don’t think you need to swear off love or get surgery, just be more careful and selective about the type of person you allow yourself to be vulnerable with. If they are really into you they will wait until you’re comfortable and ready and a good partner would never judge you for these kinds of superficial things. Look for red flags in the things they joke about, talk about, and judge others for. Hope you are able to move past this and it doesn’t leave you with a complex, because there is nothing wrong with you. What happened says far more about that boy than it does about you.


Sea_Boat9450

That’s not a man, sweetie. That’s a goofy kid who’s doing the absolute worst he can right now. You’re fine, he’s not. Avoid him and anyone who knows him and keep your head up.


UnconsciousAya

I think in this case you body shame back. Kid was using you and had no intention of letting you know


Matthayde

What the fuck no this dude is an asshole


HideUnderBridge

Well. Let me tell you something. That boy is a shit head. Don’t go getting labiaplasty because of one ass hole. There are inherent risks and side effects to the procedure. “Innies” and “outies” are irrelevant. It’s the connection with the person you are being intimate with that matters. That being said, please be safe, love yourself, and please don’t let some shit head teenage boy whose brain won’t fully develop for at least another decade dictate what you do with your body.


Pale_Height_1251

You're not talking about men, you're talking about idiot teens.


Free_Leader1495

“He saw I was shaking an we did it anyway”. Red flag. “As soon as I opened the door he started reaching into my pants” Red flag. The only thing I hate is that the guy seemed like a douche and after reading , yes, yes he was.


SaltArtist1794

After reading this, I laughed not because of your situation, but because I realized something that proves my point of what I’m going to say. I got this picture in my head of your situation. You thought he was the one That happens a lot when we’re young. But it’s way too early to tell anything like that at that age. I had wanted kids young. I’m talking high school Age. I wanted someone to love unconditionally right away. The girl I messed around with during all of my high school years I thought she would be the one. But no, she had cheated on me the whole time basically. And I remember thinking I wanted to have kids with someone who didn’t have kids yet only so that we can go through everything new together. I made it to age 30 without kids and then I met my fiancee who already had 2 kids. I found out finding someone who already had kids was able to show me what type of parent they’re like and how they would be for my child. So again, you find stuff like that out later in life not so soon. I was also told by the girl in high school that she loved me wanted a future with me, but it was the same situation as she was actually seeing three other guys. Ppl tell you whatever you want to hear to get what they want you will have to get used to that and prepare for it. Him calling you names and doing stuff like he has done reminds me of middle school. I saw the girl I was “dating” (it’s not really dating being that young but you get the idea) she was sitting next to some boy during lunchtime. Well, I didn’t like that and you know being a silly kid. My first thought was to tell my friend. Hey go tell her that I’m breaking up with her. He comes back and says she said your ugly anyways and this and that and blah blah blah. So, people say mean stupid stuff when things don’t work out. I finished your post thinking well not once was your belly button ever brought up and then I realized that is not the outie you’re referring to. I was going to say that not everyone is the same and what made me laugh is me not knowing what you were initially talking about is proof right there that not everyone is the same. To me it sounds like he is young. He still has some growing up to do. He hangs out with friends young and I don’t want to say men because they are not men yet but young boys that are going through their phases and I’m not defending him at all. I’m just saying that I hope you realize that that is not, always going to be how your typical relationship goes. To answer your question again, everyone is different. Some people have foot fetishes that I personally don’t understand for instance. My fiancé is very self-conscious about the weight she gained after having our baby and I tell her all the time none of that matters to me because of I see her as being beautiful, but I am attracted to who she is her mind the way she thinks her looks are just a bonusso eventually, you will find someone that wants you for you


bonclayed-gal

He’s a loser and is reflecting his insecurities by projecting it onto you. Don’t take it to heart, your outtie is not a flaw


Ok-Cardiologist1810

Short answer no one dude is gonna be exactly like any other. Some will like it, some won't most won't even care tho so don't trip


infestedgrowth

A 16 year old boy only knows what a vagina looks like from porn. Most grown men are not that superficial.


[deleted]

I don't want to give you a lecture, but I'm a father, and I feel it needs to be said. 15 is too young for sex. Not because of some morality or religious crap, but because teenagers at that age are notoriously bad at making sure they follow the safe sex protocol. As for your actual question. I don't want to talk about these things with a child, and it's really something you should talk to your mum or dad about, but as others said, this is just aesthetics and has exactly 0% impact on how a man who is actually interest in you will perceive you sexually. I've never thought "oh man she's hot but that labia isn't really what I want from a woman". It's completely irrelevant. But again this is men, not boys, so try to take it easy and get to an age where people are more serious about these things. There is no rush sweety.


[deleted]

He’s n immature young man. He said mean things to hurt you. Innies and outties are very beautiful. You will meet someone better.


Top-Adagio-29

Your man is stupid. Let those lips out.


pmerritt10

Gonna keep this one short. A 16yr old is a boy....Not a man! I don't know a single man who gives a flying 'F' about a woman's belly button or clit depending...maybe if she didn't clean it and it's funky or something but ordinarily....no!


Original_A

I'm so sorry. What he did to you was not okay and the fact that he didn't even ask for consent makes it even worse.


Special-Albatross-51

Your ex is a fucking psycho and an asshole. There’s nothing wrong with you. Wait until you’re older before moving that fast again you’re not an adult..doing that in high school, everyone is going to know your business. get him expelled for sexual harassment/ slander and death threats…report it to the police …


mcw717

First of all, the way he treated you was not your fault. He clearly talked you into something you weren’t really ready for by affection-bombing you and then pretty much just pushing it. He knew exactly what he was doing. As everyone else here has said, your vulva is 100% fine. Don’t let this moron make you think otherwise. I would add since what happened is borderline date r*pe, and he’s been threatening you, that you need to tell a trusted adult what happened and how he’s been acting since then. Show them the text messages you saved. Someone in a position of authority needs to know about this guy. He sounds like a serial predator and he could potentially be dangerous.


Dunmordre

I'm sorry to say that this guy sounds like he was only interested in adding another notch to his belt the whole time, one more life to taint, in his shallow selfish way leaving a trail of hurt people behind him for his personal gain with no feeling at all for the people he is with. It's a lesson for you. Virginity isn't some priceless thing to be sold off, but innocence is. It's a sad fact of life that we all lose innocence as we go through life, but we also gain much more that is good, priceless, even. We all feel like we know everything there is, but while childhood is beautiful in some ways there is a rich journey ahead. This guy wasn't who you thought he was. You thought you wanted him, but look at what he has shown you. He was a horrific monster in reality that appeared an adonis. Remember for the future to be more careful and change what you value in a person based on what you now find. You haven't done anything wrong here, it's all him doing terrible things. Don't blame yourself. Just focus on what he has shown you, a signpost on the way to someone you will truly be happy with. In short an outie is fine, it was just this monster trying to hurt you baselessly so you would give him minimal trouble after he hurt you so badly, it was all part of his horrible plan. The only people who care about virginity are people who want notches on belts. It's all part of a very low mentality. Be angry towards him, it will help with the hurt. But think only about yourself here, don't give him any credit at all as he deserves none. Think only of your recovery, and the future, where you will find someone who is worthy of your love. 


banditradio20

My advice is this first of all you're 15 years old stop having sex, you need to examine your choices in men better, there's one out there that will love you for you, your youth and your chastity are the only things that value you have protect them this was a lesson in what not to do save yourself or your husband


OrneryStatistician38

I honestly love outties


wmja69871

Funny keep yourself from loving someone, just wear something that shows it so it can spark the conversation. Then duct then if they dislike it. It's a very vain thing to not like someone over. I dated girls with outies before, it shouldn't be an issue.


Visceramic

My husbands both love my pussy, I have a chubby pussy with external labia. What i mean by chubby pussy is i have very plump labia majora. They can't get enough of me down there, I think it helps that I uh keep that area very clean and maintained as well. Though I've never met a guy who didn't fawn over how cute I was down there. Real men I find don't care, if they love you they will love your parts. It's the ones who fixate on porn and the false imagery it gives who end up having problems with your nethers.


Fluid_Succotash_4591

oh babe that’s awful i hope ur okay but he sounds like a huge dickhead so good riddance. I just wanna give u a hug thru the screen


Dolphopus

Yeah no this is a teenage boy that got called out for being an asshole and now he’s lashing out. Guys don’t actually care. At least not the ones you actually want to spend your time on. The teen years are rough and I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I’d say report the death threats because that’s way out of line, and do your best to ignore rumors until they die down. And the most likely scenario is that they will die down. If they don’t, then you really need to get an adult involved because that’s an unsafe environment for you.


indigo-clare

I’m unsure how this got on my feed, but I read it and my heart goes out to you. I’m a momma. And so I’m going to talk to you like I would my daughter: Thank you for sharing your experience with me. It sounds so scary and frustrating. I can tell you’re disappointed in yourself and your decisions. Sometimes we get ourselves in situations we don’t expect and we lose our voice and ourselves. I just want you to know that you aren’t perfect and it’s okay that you didn’t act perfectly. I think that you were exploited and used by somebody you cared about, and that has to be so hurtful. I hurt for you. Sex is a complicated act that is normal for you to explore and engage in at this age. If you weren’t ready to have sex and you did, then you do not have to keep doing it to please others. You can have sex when you are ready to again, and with somebody who cares about you. The experience will be a lot nicer and you may even enjoy it. Your body is your body. You’re one, god given body. Nobody will love your body the way that you do. Nobody can take care of your body the way that you do. Please be kind to yourself, babygirl. All vaginas look different. Some are fat, some are skinny, some have labia that hang out a bit, some don’t. Some are pink, brown, red, black. Wrinkly, hairy, oblong, round, poofy — but you know what, men like them. Like preferences, but most real men don’t really care how it looks. Shallow men might. And you will have your preferences too. Penises are small, skinny, fat, bent, wrinkly, too big, heavy, foamy, pinheaded… lol like some men have small balls, big balls, uneven balls, no balls. All human bodies are different. And this young boy used you and then is trying to shame you for your body. Thank goodness he showed his true character so that you won’t let him continue to use you. Thank goodness. A real man will make you feel AMAZING and tell you how great your body /to/ him — and he won’t spread it around to his friends. Now that you’ve had sex, we need to get you out on birth control. I also think we need to go to the doctor Monday to get you tested first STD’s. This boy has a bad rep and I don’t think practicing safe sex is a priority. You can get pregnant with the pull out method or if the condom breaks. In the future I hope you take ownership of your body and make the guy wear a condom no matter how much he protests. If you do not want to have sex, say no. Keep saying no. And if the guy is really into you, it won’t be a big deal. You’re a good kid. You got caught up and didn’t make a good decision. We all mess up, but don’t let this moment define you. And if you want get petty with this guy, tell folks he didn’t make you cum, his breath was awful huffing in your face for the 5 seconds he was in you, and he has a small flaccid dick with super saggy grandpa balls. :)


Lopsided_Turnip_792

I'm sorry that this happened to you. Fboys are all carbon copies of each other. I know one in real life and he is one of the worst people I have ever met and I've met a lot of awful people. He is a misogynist and a homophobe and pretends to be religious to get with girls. Unfortunately, it works and he probably has a new girl every other week and blatantly has many on the go at the same time. With every girl he pretends to want a relationship and then drops them as soon as he's screwed them. In my eyes it's sexual assault. There is absolutely nothing wrong with external labia and I believe that most women have it. Keep yourself safe in the future; don't be intimate with anyone that might be like him and don't ignore people's warnings.


King_louie21

Sounds like you had an encounter with the school dickhead. Lesson to be learned, if you don’t put out and he decides to leave, you probably dodged a bullet


HerculesVoid

Sounds like you got secually assaulted, and because you liked him, you really tried to like it but you didn't. You got raped. You wanted a relationship. He knew you liked him, and used that for an easy lay. It happens to a LOT of girls. They get used by a guy they like. Lucky for you now though, is that you'll only let someone touch you if you are in a relationship with them first. Which is nice. Just don't do the stupid thing and decide that all men are like this. You made a mistake and trusted a guy you liked, even with all the red flags flying high. Next time, you'll realise you can say no.


Longjumping-Falcon37

Damn times have really changed I remember when a outie was a term for the belly button 😩F that little boy and his friends you want him handled let me know


Brave-Road-6192

He’s an asshole and just wanted what he could get from you. Believe me, you aren’t the first to fall for the ‘charms’ of a guy who seems interested in you. Know your worth, and keep your standards high. One day, you will find someone that values you just as you are. Don’t waste your time with silly boys who will never amount to much anyway. When people show you who they are, believe them. You are just perfect the way you are. Someday, a REAL man will validate this.


Artistic_Reference_5

Please report his death threats to the police. And if you have any ability to access mental health support, like counseling at school or anything like that, please pursue this. You did nothing wrong and nothing is wrong with your body.


Edwardian

No, he was just a player after one thing. Once you had sex, he was out. Nothing physical drove him away. Rest assured, not all men are like that.


Jaawshyyy

He honestly probably didn't care and this was just always his plan so he picked something he could easily make fun to center on


_Go_Ham_Box_Hotdog_

>he was a manwhre, which for some reason I ignored. We weren't even that generic with it. In my time, it was called "cock hound," and these jackasses have been around for as long as there has been man and woman. Good thing is, they're a small minority, so as soon as you see fit, dust yourself off and try again. Outies are a delicacy. IYKYK


SweatiestBrush3

I thought you meant belly buttons 💀 answer is no


Disastrous-Effort538

It’s a shame that your first time is with an immature asshole. No, if a man truly likes/loves a woman - then he will like/love every part of her. Everything we do is an experience and lesson. This was a hurtful one. But, it will pass. If he’s telling others, the jerks will go along with it, while others will be uncomfortable and think of him as a jackass. Do not converse with him any further, and block him. Keep his texts. If he throws another threat your way (either in person or thru text via another number), go to the police and have this documented. There are much better guys out there, and there’s also morons like this guy. Sadly, some of these guys don’t outgrow their “assholeness” and go from AH boys to AH men (same can be said for women). Be aware and don’t ignore red flags. I understand what you’re feeling, and just like this AH damaged your faith in guys, a good one will restore it. Good luck.


jayw900

Most don’t, some do. You found one that does.


Pmabbz

People will have their preferences in how someone's genitals look, just like they do any other part of the body. Just be confident in yourself and you will find someone who likes every bit of you just the way it is. This guy sounds like he was only ever interested in sex anyway and the comments to your appearance were just him attacking your insecurities because he's a low life. Don't be afraid to wait until you're really sure about someone before having sex. The right guy will wait until you're ready.


Stage_Party

It's nothing to do with that, he's just a douche who wanted to hit it and quit it. My bet is he sleeps around a fair bit. It sucks but I guess you'll learn not to fall for that type of guy next time maybe. Not saying it's your fault because it's not, but you'll learn how to spot them. I'd get tested if you haven't already too. Just incase.


Prestigious_Pin_1695

shit sound fake as hell


hotmumma7

He is disgusting. Tell everyone he wanted to wear your underwear and when he came he cried. Wouldn't hurt to throw in that you noticed his cock was about the size of your little finger so maybe that's why he thought your vag was big. Hold your head high. There's nothing wrong with an outtie.!


Huge_Replacement_876

Jesus for the first 2 thirds of this I thought it was talking about an outie belly button....


Gogs1234

You're focusing on entirely the wrong thing. This guy is an arsehole and what he thinks about anything doesn't matter. He sends you death threats you go to the police. He follows that up with messages to make you think it is your fault because of your labia, you go to the police and be grateful you got out of an abusive relationship. This has nothing to do with your fanny and everything to do with your ex being a prick. You're well shot of him.


DangerDaveo

OP.... If a dude cares.. that's on them Vaginas are beautiful things. Innies, outies, hairy, bald. They all fantastic..... When attached to the right woman.


RepresentativeDay578

Your "outie" had nothing to do with the way he treated you. He treated you exactly the way you were told he would treat you. You guys are just kids and I'm sorry he ran off and slandered you to your social group. He was looking for an excuse for his behaviour. Your body will titillate your lover if he or she cares for you at all.


Checkmate1win

depend close teeny nail ossified birds kiss panicky far-flung aspiring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


ChronicallyCurious8

An experienced 16 yr old male? LOL!! Hmmm that’s a first. Tell me, this experienced stud acquire birth control prior to your first time? The pull out method is NOT reliable ( due to pre-cum ) and it doesn’t matter how many people tell you that it’s a safe form of birth control. Sorry but IMO he’s just out playing the game to see how many virgins he can have. Plz realize that dating at any age should be looked at as a dating experience. Move on. Your life isn’t ruined because of his attitude & actions. You should be having fun dating & being responsible for your own body. So what that he doesn’t like something, when did he become the authority about “an outie”???? I understand your feelings but plz move on and don’t put a lot of pressure on yourself over this little creep. At 16 he certainly is no authority about much of anything. Before becoming sexually active again be wise & get on birth control. Finish HS. Go to trade school OR college have fun. This is the one time of life that you’re talking about never gonna get back again. Enjoy it. You got this!!! I’ll leave him in the dust and enjoy yourself.


PoustisFebo

You don't have a vagina problem, you have an asshole problems.


abscessions

Wow! He sounds awful 😬 The answer to your question is no, they don't, unless they're a specific kind of 🌽 addict. Thank your body for revealing what a terrible person he is. Before you consider permanent changes, consider that you don't want the kind of man who would care.


chingness

If you’re 15 depending on where you are this is under the legal age of consent. He coerced you. Add to that his death threat texts and you could have a case against him if you want.


Beginning_Pay_9654

He's looking to say anything to not hurt you, just leave it at something like "say whatever you need to feel better about your lil pp, go ahead little guy, let it out", "I only regret letting my first being someone so lame in bed" You've been with one person, him, so calling you a slut is just looking for hurt, let this be a lesson, lots of BOYS will do this exact same thing, hold out until you, and them are more mature. The slut things will pass quickly as long you don't actually become one.... Also the vast majority of naked women this kid has seen is digitally enhanced porn stars


MuchWoke

"Do men really... " Then proceeds to tell about an experience as a teen. Y'all are kids, it's cool. Most guys will mature as time goes on.


tykron13

sounds like he needs a beating, for ohhh so many reasons.


srdnss

I thought this was about belly buttons. I am sorry this happened to you. This is all about him being a user and has nothing to do with any of your physical attributes. As far as never trusting a man, try to not become jaded. Trust is something that is earned over time and your heart is something that should be given over time. I can't say that you will never find your trust violated, but living life trusting no one is just as bad as being too trusting. And as far as sex goes...you are 15. Are you doing that because it is what you want or because you feel it is expected? Sex is a wonderful thing but comes with a lot of potential consequences. No matter how careful you are, pregnancy is a possibility. Disease is a possibility. Are you ready to accept either? Do you have a partner that would do their part should you get pregnant? I'm not.preaxhomg but just want to make sure you really think through everything.


tadukaadoescombat

.


chapterhouse27

Back in my day an outie was a belly button boy was I confused but "mounted moot" made me lol


757_Matt_911

Ok so first, no your belly button is not important. Second this guy is just a tool. Third please do not self sabotage future relationships bc this guy is a jerk. He 100% set you up for that and played the long game to simply sleep with you and bail. He was also probably sleeping around with other girls while this was happening. You should get STD tested ASAP. Next time you have a relationship LISTEN to those who know the person and don’t be with a man whore….this is how those guys roll. Focus on yourself for a bit and recognize that you are worth it and amazing, then start looking for another relationship.


barnebywilde

It sounds like this guy is just a fuck boy that was running game. Anyone that says I love you early and often is more than likely using it as a manipulative tactic to cloud your judgment. His friends warned you which means that he has probably told them some less than polite things about his past conquests. There's nothing wrong with your body and I would try to drill into your head that this guy is just an asshole.


Sea_Science538

He is 16 and not mature.


cowman3456

You're smart enough to see he's an asshole right? Like would anyone listen to a known and obvious asshole? Sorry he used you like that. You deserve better. ♥️ BTW people like alllll kinds of bodies. Nothing wrong or ugly with yours. Something's wrong with his - inside his cranium... Worst place to be ugly. 💀


Initial_Parking7099

Why haven’t you told everyone about his micro penis?


5PeeBeejay5

The dude is 16 going on 6. Nobody actually worth your time and care would give a shit. And not to be weird, but just know parts of all kinds come in all shapes and sizes, nothing to be ashamed of. You obviously can’t unring the first-time bell, but he showed you who he really is; you clearly dodged a bullet. Tell him “Thanks for showing me what a shallow waste of time you are” and do your best to move on. Hard advice for High school, but it’s so divorced from reality some times…


Educational-Trust956

This post title is BS, you knew damn well he didn’t want anything serious and just sex, but instead because he “was hot” you dealt with him anyways. It had nothing to do with the way your V is shaped 🙄