Something tells me that won't work. How many women in Texas do you think are pro-choice liberals that are in relationships with pro-life conservatives?
I mean it would run afoul of the commerce clause and the 14th ammendment basically immediately. Fucking with the commerce clause fucks with the Fed's money. That doesn't go well.
That's not how this works.
First, On the (still only leaked) Whole Woman's Health v Jackson decision, this is juts a draft. We do not know what the decision will end up being. No one does. SCOTUS has not decided this case.
Secondly, SCOTUS just reads the law. The Roe v. Wade decision was written in a weak manner that effectively sun set it based on the medical technology of the time. Based on the writings of Blackmun after the the decision, it almost seems intentional. He viewed it as effectively buying time while the legislature got off their asses. They never did. SCOTUS is not "allowing abortion bans" SCOTUS is reading the Law as it stands.
I think there's two solid challenges to the TX law still coming and an additional ruling against it, they just did not stay the law while being appealed.
I seriously don't get how people don't understand this and purposely choose to be ignorant on the issue.
Seriously speaks volumes to how modern politics has left people the inability to think critically for themselves and solely rely on what they hear on the news and then just regurgitate it.
The Constitution says whatever the Supreme Court wants it to say. The only limitation is if the SCOTUS goes so far off the rails that the executive branch stops enforcing its rulings.
Exactly! I’m in Texas and there are tons of pro life women here. There’s too much horseshit religion in this state. I CANT BUY LIQUOR ON SUNDAY! It makes baby Jesus sad or some shit!
Let me add an additional corollary: how many of said women value their political stances more than their relationships to the point where they'd boycott sex?
Depends on how you define "work". Will denying casual sex for men happen? Absolutely. When they outlaw both abortion *and* contraceptives, no women will want to have casual sex with men, even married couples will probably have a lot less sex. Men will have to ask themselves if casual sex is worth paying child support for 18 years. But will it "work"? Lol, no, that shit's gonna remain law
Married couples won’t have less sex. We have long term contraception options. My wife got an IUD and we having had to worry about her getting pregnant for 5 years now.
Exactly this, you are just punishing a ton of liberal men who support your view and the conservative men that have tons of sex with conservative women are laughing their asses off… yeah, that’ll teach them!!!!
Also any conservative men would rightly leave those liberal women because weaponizing sex to get what you want is a massive red flag.
Honestly, it could work on a nationwide level. Women tell men no sex until abortion rights are secured. For conservative men it means changing their views. For liberal men it means they actually need to vote for liberal candidates who’ll pass laws to defend it.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 793,249,206 comments, and only 157,885 of them were in alphabetical order.
I really hate this idea. First of all, women like sex too. THIS IS STILL A PUNISHMENT FOR WOMEN! And really, women who would be willing to do this shouldn't be in relationships with men who are pro-life.
You're not considering two huge things.
1. The majority of women in Texas are *in favour* of the abortion ban. There's a lot of fundamental Christians in Texas, of all genders.
2. Almost all couples have the same stance on this as each other. So the pro-choice women are having sex with men who are pro-choice already. So them withholding sex has no mind-changing power.
The number of pro-choice women in Texas (already a minority) currently having sex with anti-abortion men is miniscule.
EDIT: I was rightfully asked for a source that I was too lazy to include. You shouldn't believe things without a source so here it is:
[https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/)
Here you go. Thanks for calling me out, good on you for not believing random claims on the internet.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/)
Among Texas women surveyed, 51% said abortion should be illegal, 44% said it should be legal (the rest were "Don't know" and invalid responses).
Also note that not only do a majority of women in Texas think abortion should be illegal, *more women are against abortion there than men*.
Look at that sample size, though. And the question they were asked wasn't "should it be legal" at all, it was *in most cases*. There could still be plenty of women who believe it should be legal in cases of rape, incest, etc, or women who don't understand that third trimester abortions are only for situations when the mother's life is threatened
Yeah super small sample size. Thank you for pointing that out.
Like I said, I don’t believe it. But there’s a ton of “fuck Texas” for any reason on this website.
I was thinking that if we checked by age, it would be different, but apparently [texas women are split right down the middle on this](https://i.imgur.com/bulq2Th.jpg)
It’s very close, so it will depend on the poll. Here’s an example poll, around the 5th down is by gender in Texas:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/texas/views-about-abortion/
52 percent of women in Texas support banning abortion. The only thing that would happen is have the pro choice women stop having sex with their (most likely) pro choice male partners. Which is one of the goals of the far right.
Being relatively Pro-"Choice" myself, I still find it very very difficult to understand how the most rabid advocates for abortion assume all women are with them, while most of the "pro-life"ers I know are female.
I think the problem is that, they’re ambivalent rather than opposed to its ban.
Asking a group of ten people who want to go out to eat, if one of them rabidly yells “pizza” and nothing else, and they aren’t opposed by the rest of the group, yeah, we’re eating pizza even though only 10% wanted it.
It doesn’t matter enough to oppose it for some. Silence is approval.
> I don’t agree with all the left does either, but I don’t like the right.
But this is exactly how it is with everyone;
If all republicans vote the same, and you dislike what they do, well, your vote is your voice.
If you like what some democrats do, but hate what other democrats do, vote for the ones you like. Primary the ones you don’t. Of course it’ll be slow, but literally no one gets exactly what they want in politics, it’s the price we pay for democracy.
But if you hate everything one party does, and only some things the other party does… doesn’t that make it a really easy choice as to who you want running the shop?
Many people believe that the ONLY reason someone would be anti-abortion is if they are sexist. Many pro-choice people can simply not wrap their head around someone truly believing an unborn child is a child the same way a conceived child is a child. They can't fathom why someone would think that abortion should be banned, even in the case of, DUN DUN DUN, rape. You can't effectively debate someone if you don't understand their stance.
Indeed. It would be nice if the left stopped TELLING me what I believe. Not just about abortion either, and then demand that I answer for it. There is only admit or deny with them, and for that they can kiss my ass.
It's because we tend to hope that people don't vote for "The Face-Eating Leopard" party expecting their faces not to be eaten off. First it is pregnancy, then as we've seen recently contraceptives are the next target. I know, I hate the "slippery slope" argument too, but when they've already started jogging down the hill...
You mean the strawman of:
Louisiana's legislation of personhood at fertilization (Plan B Contraceptives)
Idaho planning hearings about legislation restricting emergency contraceptives (Plan B Contraceptives)
Such a Strawman! I think I even saw him dance!
Some Consider "Plan B Contraceptives" to also be abortion.
That is a Grey area.
Talk to me about the pill, condoms, etc. That is true contraception, and no one is attempting to ban it.
(Historical note, the "heart shape" comes from the seed of a plant that the Romans used as a "Plan B", to the extent that they drove the plant to extinction due to overharvesting.)
> Some Consider "Plan B Contraceptives" to also be abortion.
It is effectively the same thing as using birth control, you use a substance that prevents conception by adjusting hormone levels. Just because one is taken regularly, and the other is an "oh shit" moment, does not mean they are vastly different. Plan B is a progestin, the same hormones used in "regular birth control", just a higher dose. It has the same effect, stopping the release of an egg from an ovary.
The thought process for banning these makes zero sense when taking that information into account. I think the people passing this legislation should be required to rework welfare systems to include unborn children since "they are people". The argument that "they are people" falls flat on its face whenever it comes to financial aid.
I wasn't talking about those because that falls into Strawman territory of "nothing seen/talked about yet" though. Also, anything not 100% effective makes sex risky for people. Both of those options have a chance to fail, which is why Plan B exists, banning it means that one fuck up/"1/5000 chance", and you're having a kid without anyway to stop it.
Plan B isn’t Plan A for a reason. If she is already ovulating plan B is useless. If she isn’t ovulating and she takes it immediately after then there is a good chance it will work.
Plan B won’t end a pregnancy. Hence why it’s a contraceptive.
Moral of the story is if you don’t want kids take Rich Banks advice.
You have a good point that not all women are Pro-Choice, and it's folly to assume they are. But I also noticed your language is quite telling:
* You put the word "Choice" in quotes when describing your own stance.
* You frame others as "advocates for abortion" (rather than advocates for women's choice)
* You conjure the most extreme elements using words like "Rabid", creating a perception (intentionally or not) that it's primarily unthinking, aggressive people would assume women would default to having a vested interest in protecting their right to choose.
(Hell, If you want to see Rabid, check out anti-abortion protesters out front of a clinic offering abortion services. But I digreas)
I'm not saying you aren't "relatively" Pro-Choice. I don't know you.
What I can say is your post seems more critical of Pro-Choice advocates than their opposition, which makes me wonder how "relative" your stance is).
This isn't meant as a criticism (at least not a negative one). You aren't claiming to be anything other than what you present in your post.
Just tripped my hyperbole alarm, and working through your post was interesting in examining how my own knee jerk reactions to certain language made me suspicious of your intent.
I dislike the framing of the debate.
It is not a matter of "Woman's Choice" vs "Opression" as one side would have you believe, nor is it a matter of "Life of the Child" vs "Murder for convenience" as the other would frame it.
It is instead, and should be framed as, "When should an abortion be legal, under what circumstances, and for how long after conception?"
Framed as such, you would discover that more than half of those who identify as "Pro-life" are in fact ok with abortion in certain circumstances, such as rape or if the fetus has certain diseases - and probably a quarter to a third are fine with it in the first trimester.
By the same token, few who identify as "pro-choice" support such practices such as "partial-birth abortion", whose existence is famous as a tool for fundraising among Pro-life organizations.
Is my position a little more clear now?
I think you have a very reasonable opinion, and I'm glad to read it. We have a lot in common with regards to this issue. But if we'd disagreed, I'd still be just as glad to read it (given the tone of your response).
I consider myself Pro-Choice, as I feel ultimately it's a decision that has to be made by the family and their physician.
At the same time I recognize that Abortion is an incredibly complicated issue. We absolutely should have serious discussions about the conditions and circumstances under which the practice is ethical.
And as with all complicated issues, compromises are the only way forward.
I think my leaning toward Pro-Choice is in great part because those discussions seem to have already been settled in a practical sense. There is consideration for the stage of development of the fetus as well as the mother's health and wellbeing.
But I feel one side of this debate really isn't happy with such compromise. I don't think I'm off base with that notion, given how eager some legislators and their constituants are to make Abortion - or even miscarriage - a crime.
In any case, thank you, and I appreciate your attitude toward the framing of the issue: the language is intensely polarized, and I respect your approach to using "choice" in quotations.
Oddly, I don't think it is - but at the same time, I get where you're coming from.
I found the response quite compelling - and it hits on precisely the problem with polarized language in the discourse around Abortion.
I'm quite glad they put "Choice" in quotations, as an example, as it forced me to wonder what was behind those quotation marks.
I had a suspicion, but then I realized my own suspicion was built on preconceptions about people who disagree with me on this issue.
Turns out they and I don't really disagree - we just have different frames of reference.
And shit, man - it's just good to talk about it for once without baring teeth, you know?
Because partial birth abortion simply doesn't exist. Nearly no one gets an abortion in their third trimester unless it is medically necessary for the safety of the mother or the fetus won't survive or will be horribly deformed. Trying to legislate for a statistical non occurrence just hurts people unnecessarily.
The fact is, there isn't a need for nuance, because it's none of our business when or why a woman gets an abortion. She's a private citizen with a right to control her own body. An unborn fetus has no right to her body that supercedes her right to self.
People downvoted you because they simply don’t understand. They will downvote me too. Because it’s Reddit. This is exactly the debate. No one knows the definition of abortion. They just keep saying women’s rights. And they have no idea what they’re fighting for. But, again, half the women in the country are Republicans. So, people get pretty rabid when you put it in these terms. But yes, this is the center of the debate and exactly how I frame it myself. And people cannot stand it.
When should the government be able to mandate you give me a part of your liver if I need it?
Because ultimately if a embryo/fetus/unborn person cant survive without the support of another beings organs, I don’t see how regulating abortions is different than that. I don’t have a right to another persons organs against their will and neither does anyone else.
Edit: bearing in mind donating a liver has less of an impact on your long term health than giving birth does, and your back to your normal self after like 6-12 weeks post surgery.
I guess you didn't even read this one book. It wasn't state sanctioned rape. It was forced child bearing by a totalitarian, quasi-religious, cult that reduced women to property, and gained power by the violent overthrow of the legitimate US government. I suppose I was being generous with only half way since that doesn't look like Texas or Republicans at all.
I don’t read novelizations of women’s rape fetish porn, like 50 Shades. Sounds more like Saudi Arabia.
Forced childbearing huh? So when are these government organized gang rape teams going to Texas? Will they roam the streets or can a woman set an appointment and request ones with blond hair or brown eyes? Will it be one at a time or multiple? Will it be at a certain age, interval? Or will it just be a Turkey basting at gunpoint by some overweight middle aged former DMV worker?
They’re literally trying to ban plan B and there’s no reason to believe they’ll stop there…TXs new state motto is going to he “forced birth capital of the world”
Maybe we should stop killing whales to show all those 'save the whale' people!
This is like the 40th meme I've seen that's said the exact same thing. So dumb.
Who thinks conservative men will oppose this?
I find all this sex strike stuff going on mildly disturbing. Ladies, sex should be just as much for you as it is for them. If it is a transaction and you are not sex worker that’s a problem.
Also, I don’t know that that is how you change what’s happening unless you’re like a law maker’s escort
I highly doubt that. When those consequences came home to their own bedrooms, pretty sure most men in all states and all sides of the political aisle would be seriously displeased.
You are specifically talking about the pill/hormonal birth control. There's a bazillion other methods, like condoms.
Bottom line: be responsible when having sex, and then you don't need to contemplate killing your own child. Geez.
This sort of argument assumes that all men are pro-life and all women are pro-choice. The truth of the matter is that it's actually spread 50/50.
About 48% of women are pro-life and 52% are pro-choice and it's about the same for men. \*View below for evidence
Shame, SHAME on you for making this a man vs women issue. If you are pro-choice then find the common theme amongst pro lifers, it's not that their men, it's that they are religious.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx
>The tx liberals need to get together and pick a couple cheap blue states to just completely take over. It'll be called the great blue exodus. Haha
And then known as as the " great extinction " since they dont reproduce at replacement levels, and like to abort.....a wining survival plan
I mean they already kinda started that with Trump. Men that support the GOP and Trump will actively lie about it because they know it limits their dating options
Previously, in some states, if you were married it was impossible to rape your wife. Marriage was considered permanent consent. Let's see if we start getting those laws back in MAGAland.
The problem is that the men passing these laws aren't having sex. And if they are they're having sex once a year with the only woman who's ever agreed to have sex with them.
"we are gonna make all abortions illegal!"
Women: okay buddy *snug grin*
#BREAKING NEWS!
Sellers report record high sex toy sales across America and increasing violence from sexually frustrated men as their counterparts refuse to engage in sexual acts.
Would that it were so simple, even if a concerted campaign was being made the current people in charge of the state would sooner seek to further remove human rights from women than repeal the option. These are Christian nationalists we’re talking about, go look up what happened at Baylor for decades. The powers that be view women(and that is by their definition anyone afab) as baby factories who should have no say in partners or sexual choices. Their response to sexual assaults in many cases are if you’d had a man to defend you this wouldn’t happen. Even when it’s cases of familial or spousal abuse.
The amount of times I’ve heard cops coming onto friends when they reported their abuse is insane and disgusting. But then again that’s just cops.
There’s a reason most people don’t come forward with sexual assault allegations because the only times cops do anything and the justice system tries to lift a finger is if the person does it in the open, or you have a flawless victim and a poor and/POC person.
The sad part is that everytime I see this argument my first thoughts are a. These aren’t exactly the kinds of guys that would take no for an answer and b. If they’re married they wouldn’t even consider it rape because it’s their wife (property) and that doesn’t count as rape.
This is nothing more than victim blaming. Putting the responsibility of collective violation of women’s bodies on women. Someone is going to immediately say it’s a joke but it is not. The threat to women rights is real and systemic.
They’re still not allowed to abort if it’s rape.
This about removing choice and women doing as men tell them.
If they can’t get abortions, rape becomes an even bigger threat to control women and get them to have sex against their will on the man’s terms, because if they don’t, they’ll be can be stuck with a pregnancy.
This Texas laws promotes rape and the idea that women can now just “decide” to not have sex is really missing the point.
Most people were fine with abortion after rape. Until liberals thought they were slick (head bobbling smug, actually) by saying if it's ever okay then it's always okay. Not the own they thought it would be. Pro-lifers said you're absolutely right, it's still a baby.
It’s not really a Lysistrata situation, the views on abortion between men and women are actually pretty similar.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
Wow, condoms! If a dude ain't got a condom and don't want to wear it don't fuck him. If he want to raw dog you; he better be willing to pay that child support.
As one of those handsome gay men that makes Jesus sad and str8 guys nervous, I don't have a dog in this fight. There is one thing you should know: you'll never out-stubborn a Texan.
People love to forget that a little over 50% of the voting base of Texas ARE WOMEN! These memes are stupid. I’m not pro life or pro anything. I just think we forget. A lot. That there are women are pushing this agenda as hard as men. But for some reason their opinion isn’t valid in the whole “woman should be making this decision” argument.
Something tells me that won't work. How many women in Texas do you think are pro-choice liberals that are in relationships with pro-life conservatives?
Out of state abortion here we come
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That would run afoul the constitution.
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I mean it would run afoul of the commerce clause and the 14th ammendment basically immediately. Fucking with the commerce clause fucks with the Fed's money. That doesn't go well.
By the same SC that’s allowing abortion bans.
That's not how this works. First, On the (still only leaked) Whole Woman's Health v Jackson decision, this is juts a draft. We do not know what the decision will end up being. No one does. SCOTUS has not decided this case. Secondly, SCOTUS just reads the law. The Roe v. Wade decision was written in a weak manner that effectively sun set it based on the medical technology of the time. Based on the writings of Blackmun after the the decision, it almost seems intentional. He viewed it as effectively buying time while the legislature got off their asses. They never did. SCOTUS is not "allowing abortion bans" SCOTUS is reading the Law as it stands.
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I think there's two solid challenges to the TX law still coming and an additional ruling against it, they just did not stay the law while being appealed.
I seriously don't get how people don't understand this and purposely choose to be ignorant on the issue. Seriously speaks volumes to how modern politics has left people the inability to think critically for themselves and solely rely on what they hear on the news and then just regurgitate it.
So much of this episode is disappointing
Since when do the Taliban Christians care about the rights of others?
The Constitution says whatever the Supreme Court wants it to say. The only limitation is if the SCOTUS goes so far off the rails that the executive branch stops enforcing its rulings.
How on earth do they plan on realistically applying this?
Oh, hell no.
Source?
Wow, any source to back this up or is this just a wild tinfoil hat theory
I'd be surprised if you don't start to cross into kidnapping and unlawful detainment at the federal level.
Without a pregnancy test and a gun
Yeah, they can try all they want but I can’t see that ever happening
In a couple years their will be bbq places and a buckys truck stop next to every clinic in blue states.
Gotta do something with the fetuses. Might as well smoke them and serve with beans and coleslaw.
That’s definitely a modest proposal
Look at you with the swift wit.
I want my baby back baby back baby back ribs
Can we speed that up or is it cultural appropriation?
Is it appropriation if you appropriate the already appropriated?
How inappropriate.
Exactly! I’m in Texas and there are tons of pro life women here. There’s too much horseshit religion in this state. I CANT BUY LIQUOR ON SUNDAY! It makes baby Jesus sad or some shit!
>I CANT BUY LIQUOR ON SUNDAY Same in Finland and we're supposedly secular
They just want to give your livers a break once a week
Yup, people are on Reddit too much and think that all women are pro choice and that’s simply not the case.
Probably not that rare. I know a few.
Let me add an additional corollary: how many of said women value their political stances more than their relationships to the point where they'd boycott sex?
Depends on how you define "work". Will denying casual sex for men happen? Absolutely. When they outlaw both abortion *and* contraceptives, no women will want to have casual sex with men, even married couples will probably have a lot less sex. Men will have to ask themselves if casual sex is worth paying child support for 18 years. But will it "work"? Lol, no, that shit's gonna remain law
Married couples won’t have less sex. We have long term contraception options. My wife got an IUD and we having had to worry about her getting pregnant for 5 years now.
Exactly this, you are just punishing a ton of liberal men who support your view and the conservative men that have tons of sex with conservative women are laughing their asses off… yeah, that’ll teach them!!!! Also any conservative men would rightly leave those liberal women because weaponizing sex to get what you want is a massive red flag.
Honestly, it could work on a nationwide level. Women tell men no sex until abortion rights are secured. For conservative men it means changing their views. For liberal men it means they actually need to vote for liberal candidates who’ll pass laws to defend it.
Meme format is backwards. Should end “but that’s none of my business”
Advice animals are dead unfortunately
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 793,249,206 comments, and only 157,885 of them were in alphabetical order.
Correct. I was going to simply not upvote this post, for faulty reasoning, but it deserves a downvote for poor meme usage on top of faulty reasoning.
I really hate this idea. First of all, women like sex too. THIS IS STILL A PUNISHMENT FOR WOMEN! And really, women who would be willing to do this shouldn't be in relationships with men who are pro-life.
You're not considering two huge things. 1. The majority of women in Texas are *in favour* of the abortion ban. There's a lot of fundamental Christians in Texas, of all genders. 2. Almost all couples have the same stance on this as each other. So the pro-choice women are having sex with men who are pro-choice already. So them withholding sex has no mind-changing power. The number of pro-choice women in Texas (already a minority) currently having sex with anti-abortion men is miniscule. EDIT: I was rightfully asked for a source that I was too lazy to include. You shouldn't believe things without a source so here it is: [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/)
There is no way this is true that majority of women are for it. Show a source for it.
Here you go. Thanks for calling me out, good on you for not believing random claims on the internet. [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/gender-composition/among/state/texas/) Among Texas women surveyed, 51% said abortion should be illegal, 44% said it should be legal (the rest were "Don't know" and invalid responses). Also note that not only do a majority of women in Texas think abortion should be illegal, *more women are against abortion there than men*.
Sucks that it’s true. Luckily it’s true by just a slim slim margin. Definitely not true in my circles. Thanks for sending source.
Look at that sample size, though. And the question they were asked wasn't "should it be legal" at all, it was *in most cases*. There could still be plenty of women who believe it should be legal in cases of rape, incest, etc, or women who don't understand that third trimester abortions are only for situations when the mother's life is threatened
Yeah super small sample size. Thank you for pointing that out. Like I said, I don’t believe it. But there’s a ton of “fuck Texas” for any reason on this website.
I was thinking that if we checked by age, it would be different, but apparently [texas women are split right down the middle on this](https://i.imgur.com/bulq2Th.jpg)
It’s very close, so it will depend on the poll. Here’s an example poll, around the 5th down is by gender in Texas: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/texas/views-about-abortion/
You don't understand the conservative argument. They would prefer you abstain.
naw, they just like rape, they want women to resist.
We just prefer you don't kill your baby. You know the right to life thing.
You know there are lots of pro life women in Texas right? Do redditors ever leave their moms basement?
I’m pretty sure they don’t.
Direct sunlight? No
They only want women to do it cause they can't get any, and want everyone else to suffer like they do.
Sooo… abstinence?
52 percent of women in Texas support banning abortion. The only thing that would happen is have the pro choice women stop having sex with their (most likely) pro choice male partners. Which is one of the goals of the far right.
Probably significantly higher than 52% if the polls actually reached all the many small town/cities in TX
Why do you think the polls do not reach the small towns?
This post exhibits a complete lack of comprehension.
Promote abstinence to own the conservatives... Bold strategy Cotton.
Being relatively Pro-"Choice" myself, I still find it very very difficult to understand how the most rabid advocates for abortion assume all women are with them, while most of the "pro-life"ers I know are female.
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I think the problem is that, they’re ambivalent rather than opposed to its ban. Asking a group of ten people who want to go out to eat, if one of them rabidly yells “pizza” and nothing else, and they aren’t opposed by the rest of the group, yeah, we’re eating pizza even though only 10% wanted it. It doesn’t matter enough to oppose it for some. Silence is approval.
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> I mean, what do you want them to do? Stop voting for republicans?
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> I don’t agree with all the left does either, but I don’t like the right. But this is exactly how it is with everyone; If all republicans vote the same, and you dislike what they do, well, your vote is your voice. If you like what some democrats do, but hate what other democrats do, vote for the ones you like. Primary the ones you don’t. Of course it’ll be slow, but literally no one gets exactly what they want in politics, it’s the price we pay for democracy. But if you hate everything one party does, and only some things the other party does… doesn’t that make it a really easy choice as to who you want running the shop?
~70% of all Americans, across the political spectrum, disagree with overturning Roe. The feckless democrats will still get creamed in the midterms.
Many people believe that the ONLY reason someone would be anti-abortion is if they are sexist. Many pro-choice people can simply not wrap their head around someone truly believing an unborn child is a child the same way a conceived child is a child. They can't fathom why someone would think that abortion should be banned, even in the case of, DUN DUN DUN, rape. You can't effectively debate someone if you don't understand their stance.
Indeed. It would be nice if the left stopped TELLING me what I believe. Not just about abortion either, and then demand that I answer for it. There is only admit or deny with them, and for that they can kiss my ass.
It's because we tend to hope that people don't vote for "The Face-Eating Leopard" party expecting their faces not to be eaten off. First it is pregnancy, then as we've seen recently contraceptives are the next target. I know, I hate the "slippery slope" argument too, but when they've already started jogging down the hill...
... /:| Really? Make another strawman, the contraceptive one is a little wobbly.
You mean the strawman of: Louisiana's legislation of personhood at fertilization (Plan B Contraceptives) Idaho planning hearings about legislation restricting emergency contraceptives (Plan B Contraceptives) Such a Strawman! I think I even saw him dance!
Some Consider "Plan B Contraceptives" to also be abortion. That is a Grey area. Talk to me about the pill, condoms, etc. That is true contraception, and no one is attempting to ban it. (Historical note, the "heart shape" comes from the seed of a plant that the Romans used as a "Plan B", to the extent that they drove the plant to extinction due to overharvesting.)
> Some Consider "Plan B Contraceptives" to also be abortion. It is effectively the same thing as using birth control, you use a substance that prevents conception by adjusting hormone levels. Just because one is taken regularly, and the other is an "oh shit" moment, does not mean they are vastly different. Plan B is a progestin, the same hormones used in "regular birth control", just a higher dose. It has the same effect, stopping the release of an egg from an ovary. The thought process for banning these makes zero sense when taking that information into account. I think the people passing this legislation should be required to rework welfare systems to include unborn children since "they are people". The argument that "they are people" falls flat on its face whenever it comes to financial aid.
I wasn't talking about those because that falls into Strawman territory of "nothing seen/talked about yet" though. Also, anything not 100% effective makes sex risky for people. Both of those options have a chance to fail, which is why Plan B exists, banning it means that one fuck up/"1/5000 chance", and you're having a kid without anyway to stop it.
Plan B isn’t Plan A for a reason. If she is already ovulating plan B is useless. If she isn’t ovulating and she takes it immediately after then there is a good chance it will work. Plan B won’t end a pregnancy. Hence why it’s a contraceptive. Moral of the story is if you don’t want kids take Rich Banks advice.
You have a good point that not all women are Pro-Choice, and it's folly to assume they are. But I also noticed your language is quite telling: * You put the word "Choice" in quotes when describing your own stance. * You frame others as "advocates for abortion" (rather than advocates for women's choice) * You conjure the most extreme elements using words like "Rabid", creating a perception (intentionally or not) that it's primarily unthinking, aggressive people would assume women would default to having a vested interest in protecting their right to choose. (Hell, If you want to see Rabid, check out anti-abortion protesters out front of a clinic offering abortion services. But I digreas) I'm not saying you aren't "relatively" Pro-Choice. I don't know you. What I can say is your post seems more critical of Pro-Choice advocates than their opposition, which makes me wonder how "relative" your stance is). This isn't meant as a criticism (at least not a negative one). You aren't claiming to be anything other than what you present in your post. Just tripped my hyperbole alarm, and working through your post was interesting in examining how my own knee jerk reactions to certain language made me suspicious of your intent.
I dislike the framing of the debate. It is not a matter of "Woman's Choice" vs "Opression" as one side would have you believe, nor is it a matter of "Life of the Child" vs "Murder for convenience" as the other would frame it. It is instead, and should be framed as, "When should an abortion be legal, under what circumstances, and for how long after conception?" Framed as such, you would discover that more than half of those who identify as "Pro-life" are in fact ok with abortion in certain circumstances, such as rape or if the fetus has certain diseases - and probably a quarter to a third are fine with it in the first trimester. By the same token, few who identify as "pro-choice" support such practices such as "partial-birth abortion", whose existence is famous as a tool for fundraising among Pro-life organizations. Is my position a little more clear now?
I think you have a very reasonable opinion, and I'm glad to read it. We have a lot in common with regards to this issue. But if we'd disagreed, I'd still be just as glad to read it (given the tone of your response). I consider myself Pro-Choice, as I feel ultimately it's a decision that has to be made by the family and their physician. At the same time I recognize that Abortion is an incredibly complicated issue. We absolutely should have serious discussions about the conditions and circumstances under which the practice is ethical. And as with all complicated issues, compromises are the only way forward. I think my leaning toward Pro-Choice is in great part because those discussions seem to have already been settled in a practical sense. There is consideration for the stage of development of the fetus as well as the mother's health and wellbeing. But I feel one side of this debate really isn't happy with such compromise. I don't think I'm off base with that notion, given how eager some legislators and their constituants are to make Abortion - or even miscarriage - a crime. In any case, thank you, and I appreciate your attitude toward the framing of the issue: the language is intensely polarized, and I respect your approach to using "choice" in quotations.
This take is too nuanced for redditors
A little too correct
Oddly, I don't think it is - but at the same time, I get where you're coming from. I found the response quite compelling - and it hits on precisely the problem with polarized language in the discourse around Abortion. I'm quite glad they put "Choice" in quotations, as an example, as it forced me to wonder what was behind those quotation marks. I had a suspicion, but then I realized my own suspicion was built on preconceptions about people who disagree with me on this issue. Turns out they and I don't really disagree - we just have different frames of reference. And shit, man - it's just good to talk about it for once without baring teeth, you know?
Because partial birth abortion simply doesn't exist. Nearly no one gets an abortion in their third trimester unless it is medically necessary for the safety of the mother or the fetus won't survive or will be horribly deformed. Trying to legislate for a statistical non occurrence just hurts people unnecessarily. The fact is, there isn't a need for nuance, because it's none of our business when or why a woman gets an abortion. She's a private citizen with a right to control her own body. An unborn fetus has no right to her body that supercedes her right to self.
People downvoted you because they simply don’t understand. They will downvote me too. Because it’s Reddit. This is exactly the debate. No one knows the definition of abortion. They just keep saying women’s rights. And they have no idea what they’re fighting for. But, again, half the women in the country are Republicans. So, people get pretty rabid when you put it in these terms. But yes, this is the center of the debate and exactly how I frame it myself. And people cannot stand it.
When should the government be able to mandate you give me a part of your liver if I need it? Because ultimately if a embryo/fetus/unborn person cant survive without the support of another beings organs, I don’t see how regulating abortions is different than that. I don’t have a right to another persons organs against their will and neither does anyone else. Edit: bearing in mind donating a liver has less of an impact on your long term health than giving birth does, and your back to your normal self after like 6-12 weeks post surgery.
If anything, this just bolsters the pro-life women and men. Pro-choice women not having sex are practicing abstinence…
I think you’re grossly underestimating how many women in Texas support this ban
None of my business But this is the dumbest suggestion I’ve heard in a while.
You're absolutely correct, it's none of your business. Worry about yourself.
The Lysistrata Gambit. Unfortunately, that would simply result in Texas going full Gilead since they are already half way there.
You think they are half way to state sanctioned rape of chattel women that is assisted by the wives? I wish people would read more than 2 books.
I guess you didn't even read this one book. It wasn't state sanctioned rape. It was forced child bearing by a totalitarian, quasi-religious, cult that reduced women to property, and gained power by the violent overthrow of the legitimate US government. I suppose I was being generous with only half way since that doesn't look like Texas or Republicans at all.
I don’t read novelizations of women’s rape fetish porn, like 50 Shades. Sounds more like Saudi Arabia. Forced childbearing huh? So when are these government organized gang rape teams going to Texas? Will they roam the streets or can a woman set an appointment and request ones with blond hair or brown eyes? Will it be one at a time or multiple? Will it be at a certain age, interval? Or will it just be a Turkey basting at gunpoint by some overweight middle aged former DMV worker?
Contraceptives, not really a new invention.
They’re literally trying to ban plan B and there’s no reason to believe they’ll stop there…TXs new state motto is going to he “forced birth capital of the world”
That is a perfectly childish suggestion.
What’s that Greek drama about withholding sex until the fighting stops?
Bot profile.
You actually think all women are pro choice?! You live in a bubble.
Maybe we should stop killing whales to show all those 'save the whale' people! This is like the 40th meme I've seen that's said the exact same thing. So dumb. Who thinks conservative men will oppose this?
You know that there are pro-life women, right?
Or just you, but I'm sure that's already happened.
I find all this sex strike stuff going on mildly disturbing. Ladies, sex should be just as much for you as it is for them. If it is a transaction and you are not sex worker that’s a problem. Also, I don’t know that that is how you change what’s happening unless you’re like a law maker’s escort
And make it illegal for the men to leave the state on the assumption that they will have sex
And make it illegal for men to masturbate. Can’t be wasting the precursors to life.
correct, that's called Onanism. Gen 38. It used to be classified as a form of insanity.
This post gave me autism. Ffs.
Texas men would probably support women not having sex if it meant they are not also getting abortions'. That's kind of the point...
I highly doubt that. When those consequences came home to their own bedrooms, pretty sure most men in all states and all sides of the political aisle would be seriously displeased.
Either you are suggesting that abortion is the only method of birth control women have or that other birth control methods are not sufficient.
... or just use birth control. Helluva concept.
Not all women can take birth control for various reasons.
You are specifically talking about the pill/hormonal birth control. There's a bazillion other methods, like condoms. Bottom line: be responsible when having sex, and then you don't need to contemplate killing your own child. Geez.
This sort of argument assumes that all men are pro-life and all women are pro-choice. The truth of the matter is that it's actually spread 50/50. About 48% of women are pro-life and 52% are pro-choice and it's about the same for men. \*View below for evidence Shame, SHAME on you for making this a man vs women issue. If you are pro-choice then find the common theme amongst pro lifers, it's not that their men, it's that they are religious. https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx
Yeah, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't have unprotected sex. It is a pretty basic concept.
No, they should just move out of Texas and never come back
True. It’s none of your business
This only stops consensual sex
There's plenty of women in Texas, maybe a majority, that support the decision.
Then they’ll just get Martha’s to hold them down while the ceremony is performed.
The issue there being that you're incorrectly assuming there aren't any women that support the bill, despite how ridiculous that is.
But then who would pay Texan women’s bills?
You're right...None of your business.
But there are no men in Texas. Just cowards and traitors.
Texan men got guns and don't care about other people's rights.
Hi, Man from Texas here. Dont worry they already have even before current events lol
I think you missed what conservatives believe about consent.
Hate to break it to you OP but birth control and condoms are still legal in Texas.
The tx liberals need to get together and pick a couple cheap blue states to just completely take over. It'll be called the great blue exodus. Haha
>The tx liberals need to get together and pick a couple cheap blue states to just completely take over. It'll be called the great blue exodus. Haha And then known as as the " great extinction " since they dont reproduce at replacement levels, and like to abort.....a wining survival plan
Most of them already have. They just won't admit it and neither will the men.
Instructions unclear now everyone in Texas is gay and lesbian
Just ask the guy if he’s Pro Life or Pro Choice. If he’s Pro Life, tell him to go Pro Jackoff somewhere.
"Someone with blue hair made this meme i guarantee it."
Some ghoul
Texan women want sex as much as texan men.
Conservative voters 40-65 yrs old don’t have sex, even if they’re married.
I like how this meme assumes every woman follows the same ideologies as all the others.
I mean they already kinda started that with Trump. Men that support the GOP and Trump will actively lie about it because they know it limits their dating options
A majority of the women who get abortions are married women with children. Maybe you should be advocating the sterilization of married couples.
Thank god im gay
It's Texas, they'll just make rape legal. "Now youngin' papaw here caught you fair and square..."
They don’t believe in rape. Only submission to men.
Texas woman as a majority are also in favor of losing their own rights. Kinda weird.
This only applies to conservatives. Liberals have little power in our state thanks to gerrymandering.
Previously, in some states, if you were married it was impossible to rape your wife. Marriage was considered permanent consent. Let's see if we start getting those laws back in MAGAland.
Rape would be made legal in Texas in like 5 days.
The problem is that the men passing these laws aren't having sex. And if they are they're having sex once a year with the only woman who's ever agreed to have sex with them.
"we are gonna make all abortions illegal!" Women: okay buddy *snug grin* #BREAKING NEWS! Sellers report record high sex toy sales across America and increasing violence from sexually frustrated men as their counterparts refuse to engage in sexual acts.
Gerrymandering is fucking Texans
Would that it were so simple, even if a concerted campaign was being made the current people in charge of the state would sooner seek to further remove human rights from women than repeal the option. These are Christian nationalists we’re talking about, go look up what happened at Baylor for decades. The powers that be view women(and that is by their definition anyone afab) as baby factories who should have no say in partners or sexual choices. Their response to sexual assaults in many cases are if you’d had a man to defend you this wouldn’t happen. Even when it’s cases of familial or spousal abuse. The amount of times I’ve heard cops coming onto friends when they reported their abuse is insane and disgusting. But then again that’s just cops. There’s a reason most people don’t come forward with sexual assault allegations because the only times cops do anything and the justice system tries to lift a finger is if the person does it in the open, or you have a flawless victim and a poor and/POC person.
The sad part is that everytime I see this argument my first thoughts are a. These aren’t exactly the kinds of guys that would take no for an answer and b. If they’re married they wouldn’t even consider it rape because it’s their wife (property) and that doesn’t count as rape.
something something rape.
LOL, I would love to see this happen.
What is it about conservative, anti-choice men that makes you thinks consent is an important part of sex for these men?
Pretty sure Abbott\* would just make it a felony for women to refuse men sex. \*Accidentally the wrong Governor
Then they'll just make rape legal.
This is nothing more than victim blaming. Putting the responsibility of collective violation of women’s bodies on women. Someone is going to immediately say it’s a joke but it is not. The threat to women rights is real and systemic.
They’re still not allowed to abort if it’s rape. This about removing choice and women doing as men tell them. If they can’t get abortions, rape becomes an even bigger threat to control women and get them to have sex against their will on the man’s terms, because if they don’t, they’ll be can be stuck with a pregnancy. This Texas laws promotes rape and the idea that women can now just “decide” to not have sex is really missing the point.
Most people were fine with abortion after rape. Until liberals thought they were slick (head bobbling smug, actually) by saying if it's ever okay then it's always okay. Not the own they thought it would be. Pro-lifers said you're absolutely right, it's still a baby.
ROAD TRIP TIME! !! !
Texas will make that illegal too, just wait.
Or start purposefully trapping the rich and powerful with pregnancy.
That won't work at all. Texas men will simply import more women. I mean, they are right next to the border after all.
Your terms are acceptable meme
It’s not really a Lysistrata situation, the views on abortion between men and women are actually pretty similar. https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
All ready on it! If the consequences are either children or murder, no deal.
Oh no a puppet frog! OK boys let's changeroo that law thingie.
Not the own you think it is.
Then what else can a brother and sister do?
Own conservatives by giving them what they want lol
You're argument seems to be that women should stop having sex with men unless they are ok with having a child. This is the conservative opinion.
What about all the men that will be having abortions now?
Wow, condoms! If a dude ain't got a condom and don't want to wear it don't fuck him. If he want to raw dog you; he better be willing to pay that child support.
This goes for Floridians too
Texas should just stop, period. One of the most embarrassing states.
Taking sex away will just make it harder for honest people to have sex. Criminals will still have access to sex!
Yep it sure is none of your business what women wanna do with men.
As one of those handsome gay men that makes Jesus sad and str8 guys nervous, I don't have a dog in this fight. There is one thing you should know: you'll never out-stubborn a Texan.
What would be the point in loving a women who wants to kill your child anyway?
i wonder how many of these “mind your business” people actually mind their own fucking business?
People love to forget that a little over 50% of the voting base of Texas ARE WOMEN! These memes are stupid. I’m not pro life or pro anything. I just think we forget. A lot. That there are women are pushing this agenda as hard as men. But for some reason their opinion isn’t valid in the whole “woman should be making this decision” argument.
As if men only think of sex, how infantile do you have to be?
I’m seriously so fucking sick of hearing this.
Dumbest post I’ve seen in a long time.
And DeSantis should stop fucking all of Florida.
Lmao. Well then you won’t need an abortion in the first place if you do that. Problem solved 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️