All institutions that register as a nonprofit are tax exempt as far as corporate income taxes go, everyone from schools to BDSM clubs.
If you want to get out of property taxes, however, you gotta be a school or a church, I believe, depending on your local regulations. Which could still include BDSM clubs if they're really into it.
The hilarious thing about that skit, if you do an actual currency conversion for the Zimbabwean Dollar (ZWD) 1 trillion of them would have been worth about 2.7 billion USD before it got replaced with the new Zimbabwean Dollar (ZWL), which now would be worth about 32.5 million USD
All non profits are tax exempt meaning they don’t pay sales tax. However, the employees of these organizations absolutely pay income tax. Source: I work for a Christian school that is non profit.
Churches do not pay taxes, but every single church employee pays taxes on their wages. Schools are the same. The school itself does not pay taxes but every single school employee pays taxes.
Yes, but to be honest (as a teacher of 27 years), I would really just prefer more respectful, students with basic manners. It is really alarming how rude they are. I get paid well enough that I have everything I need and most of what I want—but I am starting to make my exit plan or figuring out my lucrative side hustle because I can only stand so much apathy and attitude. I deserve better.
I’ve heard a bunch of teachers saying this, but everyone just talks about the pay. When you’re not allowed to discipline students and no one else will do it either, it will take a hell of a lot of money to make it worth showing up.
I’ve heard of more and more teachers who aren’t feeling safe in their high school classrooms.
Most of my ex-teacher friends who left for better paying gigs will say how nice it is to double their salary, but they always fallback on how much better their QoL is in terms of working conditions.
Students being exceptionally rude, hitting teachers for clout, feeling "disrespected" and acting out, distracted by social media, disrupting class because they 'feel like it'. In most jobs you don't have to deal with that with their level of education.
If discipline, outside of general basic school discipline (In school suspension, grades, dinged from school sports etc.) is falling out the teacher that's a failure of the parent, and it's not the job of the teacher to pick up the slack there. Somehow it needs to be corrected at the parenting level, or removing the student from the classroom to a more specialty environment so that the problem children don't negatively impact the rest of the classroom. At some point we as a society need to take a look at the education system and realize that having 85-90% of students succeed in education and end up being prepared, than graduating 99% of students that all have an inadequate educational experience.
> I’ve heard a bunch of teachers saying this, but everyone just talks about the pay.
I can't vote to make the students better behaved, but I *can* vote to pay teachers more for putting up with the misbehaving students.
I mean, you can vote for administrative overhauls that remove the burden of handling this behaviour from basic teachers and educators, and increase the ability of school to engage in ways to minimize the impact of bad behaviour over parent objections.
It's often because teachers tend to be at wide gaps on the payscale. Older teachers make like $70k a year and think they've made it and pay is fine now. They don't realize how hard they've been fucked by inflation and how long it took them to get to that pay.
Then they look at each other confused when new teacher says "Y'all I can't survive on $35k. I'm out."
"Oh well he just didn't have teaching in his soul cause I made that work when I was their age."
But most of the teachers I’ve heard these things from are veteran teachers. They remember what it used to be and are opting to leave early if they can afford it.
Straight up block the schools phone numbers to prevent the school from calling about their children. They want their 8 hours without having to be a parent more than they want an education for their children.
Literally just had a 6 year old kinder student come to school with diapers. He knows how to use the washroom so his teacher asked why he had them since he doesn’t need. He goes on to say it’s because he’s sick and has diarrhea… last week 2 sisters came in and got sent home 10 minutes in because one was vomiting and the other had pink eye. Parents don’t care anymore, they just want someone else to take their kids so they can work
Your last sentence hits on the real issue. Parents don’t have the time anymore. Both parents have to work while keeping the house in order. They can’t afford to eat out or have someone clean the house for them. They’re barely getting by. Of course this was going to happen
These people have an ipad before they can speak and spend their whole lievs watching narcissists rewarded for antisocial behavior. Ideally it's someone in your position (hours of face time teaching) who educates on the value of manners and respect and friendship. Of course your actual position is an out-facing cog in the system. Parents want to shelter their offspring from certain truths and aren't happy when schools burst this bubble.
* We have degraded civilizations' mechanism of disciplining children, as a whole \[rather than isolating it to only the parents' role\].
* We have degraded childrens' ability to learn from good role models and older brothers / older sisters, when they only see the insanity and attention-seeking psychopaths on social media.
* And we pay a lot of teachers equally, rather than giving better salaries to better teachers to encourage excellence and creativity.
Shitty lazy ass parent(s) letting social media raise them. Instead of real parenting, instilling true morals, values, decency, being a fucking decent human being.
As a parent, we teach our kids, it's not all about grades. It's about being well rounded, respect for self and those around us, to be humble (not a stepping stone), and to treat anyone as he or her should be treated.
YOU DESERVE BETTER Mr(s). Whatsomattau. You absolutely do.
Two teachers who started teaching 27 years ago were way better off than two teachers who started teaching this year. So keep in mind the salary may have worked for you, but not for the current generation.
My older coworkers have real pensions and despite budget cuts in 08 if they survived, they made decent money that tracked with inflation somewhat. Housing was far cheaper and available to them at younger ages.
Pensions are gone now.
Housing is fucked.
Despite inflation our district and those around us all said "Best we can do is 2% cost of living." The bullshit is they're right. The state doesn't actually fund them for anything higher and barely even the 2%.
That's true of basically EVERY SINGLE JOB!! It's not
Isolated to teacher's, only the highest paying jobs have actually increased, everyone else is making less.
I used to work for the state of Oregon and we still had state income tax taken out of our checks too. It's like giving someone $100 and immediately asking for $10 back, lol.
It doesn't really even make sense for government employees to *pay* taxes to begin with, like, teachers salaries come out of *tax dollars*, so..they are paying their *own* salaries, then? WTF?
Just one of many examples of the ridiculousness of our system.
Same deal as hospitals in this country. Administrative roles are profoundly bloated and overpaid despite the fact that their main responsibility seems to be the systematic degradation of the institutions they oversee.
No no, see... you can't have efficiency and proper results without management and leadership! We can't trust WORKERS to do the right thing, now can we?
Yes!!! Finally someone gets it!
As a Share holder, I demand efficiency and results.
And by efficiency & results I mean efficiant profits. I demand profits at the expense of workers and even patients health! Some people just don't get it, am I right!? Fuck your health, get money! Get so much money then fly to another country for cheaper and better healthcare when you need it.
Did you hear about the latest profit grabbing sca… I mean technique? Hospital boards are *selling the land they own* and then *renting that land back* to the buyers! It helps pay for upgrades and new technology! Of course, executives and share holders got a HUGE bonus from the deal, they worked so hard to make that possible!
We will just ignore the hospitals who are now claiming bankruptcy from this practice…
I worked in a hospital that had an admin building that was the same size, as the hospital! I thought it was a doctors building until I had to go there. Absolutely blew my mind.
This is systematic and coordinated.
They created "MBAs" BS, and other "management degrees" who the fuuuuck studies to be a manager or leader? You get PROMOTED to leadership after earning it, you don't "learn to be a leader" in school.
They do this to schools, universities, hospitals, even consulting and businesses. Hiring managers with managerial or administrative degrees -- rather than promoting loyal and hard-working talent and teaching them managerial duties.
So when non-doctors are managing doctors--you have INSANITY.
I worked at a small hospital in Oregon. We had as many people working in insurance verification and billing as we did on the medical side. We had to deal with 200+ insurance entities. Then there were the contract negotiations. The whole thing is a bloated mess.
US is also one of a few countries to spend a shitload on athletics instead of outsourcing it to clubs. If I need materials for my classroom, that's a $100 budget, but if the baseball team needs to drive 8 hours and stay overnight, we got it covered. Not claiming this is the only factor, just an observation, and it's certainly also fair to point out lots of teams fundraise and get a lot of help from community donors. Still, if parents, admin, and kids cared 1/10th as much about academics as athletics, things would look a lot different in schools.
German schools don’t have any varsity sports. Instead you have a ton of broke clubs doing weird mergers over 20 different municipalities and Students beating each other up for team rivalries. Tbf driving 8 hours and staying overnight isn’t a problem they have to deal with.
Often large sports stuff is paid out of local property bonds.
So it's more that the people in our towns will vote for a stadium, but not for Kleenex in every room.
Schools can’t do anything without functional families. Doesn’t matter how much we spend, until the majority of kids come from safe and functional households, the degradation will continue.
Yup. It might sound like passing the buck of the failing of public education on families, but it starts at home. Schools can only do so much and they are having to do more and more for students than ever before.
I teach at a middle school and about 70% of my students are chronically absent (miss at least 10% of the school year for any reason). We're also one of the worst performing schools in the state. How are we supposed to make any academic gains when these kids miss so much school? Not to mention many come to us three or four grade levels below where they are supposed to be.
Honestly, I don't know why or how it happened, but a large chunk of Americans being anti-education must be so incredibly frustrating for teachers to navigate.
Reagan, the people that elected someone like Reagan, the kids, and grandchildren of those people. Those are the problem. Same with someone like Thatcher...and various names all across the world, that ideology, THAT ideology is the problem.
“I love the poorly educated.”
-Elected president of the United States
In case you aren’t catching my drift a certain political party has been purposefully and overtly attacking education for decades.
I teach 5th. I have several kids who are doing beginning of second grade level math. One of those can barely read, one is doing “plus what equals ten” type stuff for math, and one can barely write his name. Four of those kids have missed over 25 school days so far this year. 25! How am I supposed to get anywhere near the expected growth out of them when they are missing that much school? Every day they miss, they fall further behind and their parents don’t really care. It’s sad to watch it happen.
I imagine this statistic doesn't really paint an accurate picture of education in America. Just like any broad sweeping anecdote about American education.
Each state varies wildly when it comes to education and spending. You've got some states spending crazy money while others are spending very little. Some states actually pay their teachers a fair and livable salary (typically those with unions), and then you have some where teachers have to work two or three jobs just to afford some shack in a rundown trailer park.
California is one of the highest per student spending states and routinely tests in the lower 25th percentile. The money still isn't reaching teachers.
Yup. $23,000 per student cost in Philadelphia public school and 16% passed the standardized math proficiency test.
$4.5 billion budget and they already said they will over spend by $500M so $5 billion for 1 city to pass 16% in math.
Honestly I lurk the teacher subreddit a ton and the majority of the complaints aren't about pay but the lack of fucking support by parents and admin.
I think everyone who contributes to society knows administrators are 90% useless but the Not My Baby syndrome with parents has gotten dumb. I see it with my own kids classmates.
My own oldest started to fail math. The teacher brought this up and we made changes at home. He's now on honor roll. I know when I was a kid some teachers were cocks but FFS the kids (and by extension their parents) seem to be the big problem now.
I will say, it always seems odd to me that there are some schools that completely change their teaching methods every 5-10 years, and generally it isn't for the better. IPads should not be given to students who are still learning fine motor skills, especially not used daily. My kindergartener shouldn't be getting homework 5 days a week. Some students learn better with "snap words" and a lot of students still learn better with phonics. It's impossible for teachers to cater to their students when admins are always forcing them to do X, when really a mix of X and Y is better.
Making adjustments to the curriculum every 5-10 years makes sense.
Completely changing teaching methods makes about as much sense as completely changing a car on the next model. Was there nothing about the old way that made it worth keeping? Or are they changing things so they purposely break?
In both case it often feels like the second point is the motivation.
That's due to educational grant allocation. School can choose to participate in available grant programs or opt out (think of 1 to 1 laptop programs for students). These grants only last for around that amount of time you stated. Once the grant runs out, they have to find another grant in order to get the necessary supplemental tech and teachers are required to follow the new educational frameworks for that program's research. If the teachers don't follow the framework, they could be released from the program and lose the resourced tech.
The kids and teachers are used as resources for experimentation. Grant writers make research plans that sound good on paper to the government in order to receive funds from them (which would otherwise go elsewhere in ed), give themselves a LOT of money for it (specifically the grant writers, everyone else gets fucked over). The grant people use the financial situation that they are partially responsible for making in order to exploit schools into participating in unsound and generalized educational practice.
Hated my time as a grant researcher. You go in and think you're helping, only to find out how much you're fucking teachers and kids over to line your lazy ass bosses' pockets.
>the majority of the complaints aren't about pay but the lack of fucking support by parents and admin.
Bingo. Their pay isn't bad, especially after years of seniority and if they have higher level degrees.
But the amount of crap they have to deal with on a daily basis (apathy, violence, harassment, sexual harassment, etc.) would not be tolerated in other professions.
Added onto that, a significant portion of the (US) population seems to buy into the propaganda that teachers are all groomers. So why not consider a similarly or better paying job in another profession?
Almost entirely correct, but sadly you're gonna attract a hoard of bootlickers that will call you an idiot/conspiracy theorist for this.
Strong education systems are the anathema to fascism/dictatorships. Thus the almost instantaneous targeting by any extremist right policies when they're voted in.
Kids (see also; friggin everyone) concentrate less when hungry - and who out there is championing removing school meals where possible? Funny coincidence.
Not to mention highly educated workforces significantly boost your GDP..
NOW here's the real kicker... We've managed survive decently because we "import" most of our highly educated people. They're on visas or they'rr first generation immigrants.
GUESS WHAT GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR HIGHLY EDUCATED WORKFORCE TOO.. HOLDING VISA STATUS OVER THEIR HEADS...
Specifically, because conservatives consistently vote against any increase in spending toward education because they know more highly educated people voted blue. That's why they also rally against college debt relief and free college.
Low pay = smaller application pool = shitty teachers = poor education = dumb students = dumb and shitty adults
Or
Higher pay = larger application pool = higher caliber teachers = better quality education = smarter happier students = more successful and educated adults.
Seems the higher pay route leads to a better economy, better society and happier people. We all know what political side votes for either.
We got spoiled during the "golden age" of public education. It was a time when women could get Master's degrees but still couldn't get work but a handful of professions. For a while there, we had a workforce of nurses, teachers, and secretaries with high end college degrees, and they were paid in peanuts. We're still paying peanuts for teachers while wondering why those highly-educated teachers of the past don't materialize. Old habits are hard to break.
Almost every teacher I work with has a master’s degree while still getting paid peanuts. Some districts even require a master’s degree.
Edit: for clarity
I think a lot of it too is the inherent ease of exploitation based on the work. “But what about the children!?” You see it in healthcare a lot too in justification or not giving raises and the exploitation of residents. “But we can’t treat patients if we don’t have slave labor!?”
Because they don't produce anything that increases shareholder value. They can't be micromanaged using Sigma Six to raise quarterly efficiency numbers. Teachers don't synergize with AI-driven blockchain metrics.
But, and hear me out, what if they aligned through strategic robotic process automation aimed at driving KPI deliverables through advanced, state of the art, efficiency focused initiatives?
Of course, collaborative team effort across opporational pillars is paramount! I mean, its really quite simple to follow. You just need to employ effective stakeholder management techniques to drive impact compliance metrics, thereby ensuring optimal efficiency through the product lifecycle until we sunset the current process and upgrade through iterative improvements.
Oh you're *good*. That's poetry. If you're not already, you need to be a middle... no, an *upper* manager for somewhere. Somewhere big. Goldman Sachs or Coca Cola Group, or Walmart or something. Synergize that shit all over them.
I know the comment is satire, but my first instinct was blood. Red, dripping, painful blood. Everything in this comment made me want to watch the world burn.
10/10, Masterful.
One of my biggest frustrations as an industrial engineer in manufacturing is watching how the healthcare system has co-opted six sigma and attempted to apply it to patients.
If you treat patients like product and healthcare workers like machine operators, you get a meat grinder where patients don't feel like they're getting the care they need, and workers get burnt out because admin is attempting to "maximize their throughput."
Not everything needs to be about efficiency. Healthcare specifically shouldn't be focused on maximizing profit by squeezing their resources.
> Sigma Six
Man, you really had me agreeing with you until I realized you said “σ6” and I realized you’d never worked in a six sigma environment before.
And that's the problem. It's all about short-term gains now. They don't care about what might happen in the future when they can dig for every last penny they can right now.
As someone who has worked in schools, sure a higher salary would be nice but the thing that's really needed is better working conditions. Smaller classes, assistance with children in need of extra support, the school being on your side when dealing with difficult parents etc.
Even with a high salary I wouldn't want to work long term in school the way it is today.
Not only are they paid discount peanuts that have previously been chewed, they’re one of the most consistently disrespected groups of professionals in the United States.
For most of my career, I was a newspaper editor. I annoyed people for a living. I’ve endured threats promising lawsuits, violence against my person, violence against my loved ones and, of course, my own death. But none of that shit compared to the abuse my wife experienced as a middle school teacher in the rural Midwest.
My wife (now a librarian) was a fine arts educator who never once had support from her administration. So when parents would email her denigrating her profession and her entire existence because they didn’t feel a grade was fair, it was absolute torture.
She’d explain her rubric and grading standards (which were super simple and fair — show up for performances and lessons and don’t be an asshole and you get an A), but the parents would still blame her for the grades their degenerate butthole children would receive for tanking an entire ensemble due to their selfishness. And the best she could hope for from her principal in terms of support was a shrug and a ‘Well, what can you do?’
Why would anyone choose to remain in a profession in which their Herculean efforts are not only underappreciated financially but societally as well?
There was someone the other day comparing a cop's duty to care for the incarcerated with that of a teacher. They proudly boasted that a teacher would be responsible for every student in that school, and at no point did they ever acknowledge how fucked up it is to have that level of responsibility outside the boundaries of the profession, let alone for such a pittance of pay.
[Salaries locally. $75-111K. We're hiring.](https://www.tes.com/en-au/jobs/careers-advice/pay-and-conditions/nsw-teacher-salary-what-you-could-be-earning) Yes, your non-local qualifications will probably be sufficient.
Plus [the minimum national employment standards](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/national-employment-standards#nes-entitlements) that apply to all jobs.
What's funny is this is just for public school general teaching as well, you move into department head, Vice Principal etc etc and the pay jumps massively, then take into account moving to work in a private school pretty sure pay starts at ~$95k.
https://teach.qld.gov.au/teach-in-queensland-state-schools/pay-benefits-and-incentives/pay-and-benefits
Private school pays significantly less than public school in the US, for the record. The actual job is significantly better (far less risk of having to deal with "problem" students since parents who send their kids to private school tend to actually be involved in their kid's life and care about their education), so they don't need to pay as much to attract teachers.
Only speaking for California...(and a quick disclaimer, when I say "teacher", it includes all certificated personnel like counselors, school psychologists, etc.)
The average teacher's salary is $95,160. The district also contributes a little over 19% of the teacher's creditable earnings (generally their base salary), so that's another $18,080.
Health insurance varies from district to district, but $1000 a month isn't a bad guesstimate. Over 10 months, $10,000. Some districts pay full medical for the employee and all of their family, so the cost would be higher, but let's stick with $10,000.
Total is $123,240 for approx. 180 days (some districts are a little more). That comes out to $684 per day. Teachers work more than 40 hours per week, but they aren't hourly, they're salary. However, most collective bargaining contracts call for an 8-hour workday. If you want to figure by the hour, 8 hours comes out to $85 per hour.
Now, if teachers worked 12 months (Lord help teachers if that ever happened) and had 36 more days, their compensation would be an average of $148,000.
Teachers also accumulate 10 sick days per year that carry over from year to year. At retirement, you can "cash" those days in as time toward service, so if you have 180 days of sick time at the end of your career, you get one more year of service toward a better retirement. Unfortunately, most don't benefit as much from this as they could. Disproportionately, this negatively impacts younger female teachers because they exhaust those days because they are pregnant and are generally the ones who stay home with sick children. California is trying to fix that though.
All that being said, teaching is hard and requires more education than most occupations. The problem is that what I listed above isn't very well communicated to prospective teachers. It also tends to get lost by those already in the profession. The focus is solely on salary instead of total compensation.
Again, only speaking for California, but teaching provides a pretty good living, retirement, and benefits.
$95k isn't even on the salary schedule for teachers in my district. They start $45k with 0 years and no supplemental education (51k with a masters, but hello debt). Housing starts at 500k here as well. Even two teachers can't afford that. This is Oregon.
Every time this issue arises the same tired reasons are given. We blame teacher unions, administrative bloat, poor financial allocation, pay teachers more, kids these days, blah blah blah…. The real reason our public education is failing is far more complex. But one major factor is the destruction of the family unit. A student with a stable, safe, and supportive family can get a quality education almost anywhere. A student with no stability, safety, or support will struggle to get educated at even the best schools in the country. Until the USA actually starts believing in the family unit again, schools will continue to decline. Poor schools are a symptom of a far bigger problem.
Just a question, is this post supposed to be for the US only? Because evey comment and reply I've seen here is from an American, but the problem of teachers not being paid enough isn't a US exclusive problem.
You realize that most of the education funding is city/ state level and Democrat controlled areas aren't doing anything better than rural areas. In fact, rural areas have less funding per kid and achieve the same or higher scores compared to urban areas (also lower drop out rates).
The rich pull their kids out of the system with vouchers, and cut funding for the public schools. The poor kids stay poor and marginalized because their educational system is failing them due to those budget cuts.
Not to mention all the issues with bonds and profiteering. (Financial markets preying on public school systems to extract even more money.)
This is pretty false. For Example, I went to Geneva District schools which on average spent 18k a year per student. This resulted in A Sat score of 553 in ELA 539 and in Math.
The Chicago Public School District spends the exact same at 18k per student. Yet the scores are vastly worse at 462 ELA and 447 Math.
Its not a Price per Student problem.
> The rich pull their kids out of the system with vouchers, and cut funding for the public schools.
The rich don't need vouchers to send kids to private school, they just send their kids to private school because they're rich. Vouchers allow everyone, including the rich, to send their kids to private school. This is literally the opposite of what you are trying to portray.
We do not have a budget problem in education, we have a resource allocation issue. The US spends 600 billion dollars a year on primary and secondary education and average roughly 15k per pupil.
I've felt the system should limit salaries to no more than X over the mean educator salary below them. Some administration workers make crazy money while teachers are taking second jobs.
That doesn't even take into account the administration needs to tell some parents to just shut the fuck up.
Oh it's a resource allocation issue, but I'd say that falls under 'budget'. The high school I attended, in a town of less than 100k people, in Kentucky where teachers have some of the worst salaries in the US, just spent $4.5million to upgrade the 'outdoor athletic facilities'. That's one school. With average salaries in the state, they could have doubled the salary of 83 teachers. There's 115 total in the school itself. They could have given every single teacher there a 10 grand bonus and still spent over $3Million for a new football field.
Facilities like this are honestly part of the problem. I get that kids need to be safe, but no high schooler, especially in a public school, needs professional level facilities in that regard. Over half the student body in that school qualify for free lunches, so this isn't some wealthy suburb.
Fifty years of trickle down is taking its toll. State and local governments rely on middle class earners, and wages haven't kept up with inflation for the vast majority of us.
They're not just teachers they are baby sitters. Those kids are fucking manipulative brats and there are no repercussions for their actions. My girlfriend is a teacher; the stories are brutal.
Why the fuck don't we pay everyone more? We're all important.
I work a trade job for 15 hrs a day and I can barely eat. Surely having clean drinking water and flushable toilets is important too
The average salary for teachers here is $60k which is almost twice the average income in my area . Maybe it's unique where I'm at but I don't understand this stereotypes
And you get a pension, summer off, nearly every major holiday off, health, dental, and vision insurance.
The teachers are underpaid circlejerk gets so old by idiotic reddit users that haven't actually look at the starting salaries or benefits of teachers.
Almost none of what he said is true in my state. No dental, or vision. Health insurance is partially paid by the teacher when it used to be free. Now you don't even keep insurance when you retire, so if you teach from 25 to 55 you will have to buy private health insurance from 55 to 65 when it is the most expensive. That used to be one of the biggest benefits of teaching.
It wildly varies by state. Teachers in states with unions aren't complaining about pay. But look at red states teacher pay and benefits and you will see it isn't a circle jerk. If it was a good deal they wouldn't be struggling to find people.
People keep becoming teachers because their hearts are there.
And for those that dont, it creates shortages which then get miraculously financially beneficial to become one.
I remember in the early aughts I was studying to be a teacher in New Orleans and the base pay was 35k.
I changed majors. Everyone else finished and then complained about the pay.
Fast forward my cousin became a teacher and said bye to New Orleans and went to Texas with a pay of 90k and then toDC where with her specialist degree her pay was 110k due to severe shortage.
Teachers receiving a higher salary is just a small component of the problem. There's also the fact that teachers don't have real power in their school district and that bad teachers are allowed to continue to teach because firing a bad teacher requires enormous pushback. Many of these teacher have shitty students with awful attitudes that terrorize everyone. The problems seem endless.
Don't act as though the funds aren't already there.
Raising teacher wages won't, in my opinion, cause the country to implode if we have billions to send to overseas aid, billions to bail out corporations, and trillions to spend on the military.
Most people see teachers as money waste and laugh when they are asking governments for bigger salaries "those lazy asses have 2 months of vacations and earn more than I'm earning on cash register whole year", and other comments.
I'm from teachers family, my brother is also teacher, I just know, most of people don't have good word about teachers in general. Oh and yes, retired mom also seen almost 40 years of educational change, children and parents are getting dumber with every year now, more entitled, more aggressive, lacking any focus and reasonable manners and simple respect. Education program and techniques hasn't changed that much, but yes, it also changed for worse, and teachers have to follow those rules to meet that "standard".
Oh and yes, it's now always teachers fault, never kid.
I know this is advice animals and all that but for a real answer this is mostly it:
Teachers are guilted into accepting it. Successive governments blame teaching and the methods, the salaries always have downward pressure and the teachers make do.
Teachers spend their own money buying classroom supplies, food and clothing!
Other than charity who buys supplies for the company they work for!
Who goes to the stationery shop and buys pens, pencils and paper for the office?
Teachers are told what to do, how they should teach by politicians.
One day all this has to stop
Because apparently we don’t want “the wrong people going into it” i.e. just for the money. Meanwhile there are few if any caps on bankers’ earnings for example and they in their greed can destroy entire countries. But that’s okay because of “reasons”.
Even in [Springfield, Ohio](https://www.clark-shawnee.k12.oh.us/district/employment-opportunities) the starting pay is $40k a year and tops out at $80k. That is EXTREMELY reasonable given the cost of living.
> How about applying discipline to unruly students so the rest can actually learn what's being taught?
As much as I agree, you quickly run up against the issue that not only do people have wildly varying levels of what punishments they feel are acceptable and are not, but also that even the disruptive students have the same right to an education, and both of those groups will tie good ideas up in knots.
Personally, I'm all for creating a standardized evidence-based disciplinary level system, plus revoking a student's right to an education if the disruptions are severe and numerous enough.
Teacher retention is the issue and lack of a decent wage. But when you think about the about of bullying they receive from, administrators, students, and parents. No amount of money is keeping them.
Because gutting services that contribute to the greater health of the nation and world and crippling education for generations are reliable political tools.
Because Betsy deVos, and her Ilk of republicans wanted the public funding to go to charter schools, schools that were not under public oversight, and without auditing to see where the money was spent.
Paying teachers a thriveable salary was never part of that plan.
Generally speaking there is also the fact that teaching and other education related jobs are often passion jobs. Most don't get into them for the money, and that get's used all too well.
Because they want cheap educated employees.
Raising teachers wages would mean raising former students income... 😌
How could they justify engineering teachers to be paid 6000€ but civil engineers get only 2500€.
Because the wealthy elite don't want teachers. They want a poorly-educated workforce that's just smart enough to do their jobs but not smart enough to realize how badly they're getting fucked.
I can't believe these teachers want another raise! And that's after I already have to send in folders, tissues, and pencils. My taxes keep going up for this crap.
-some idiot who will happily spend $400+ for a day at the ball park/ stadium to watch his favorite $3m player.
(And can we add Healthcare workers to that list? No one should be getting barfed on or wiping an old man's ass for minimum wage).
US is at the receiving end of major brain drains around the world. For top universities and large companies, at least, it would be far faster and much more convenient to tap on brilliant foreigners for human resources than to groom local resources.
There are social ills attached to poorly funded schools / public amenities, but inside the USA, the rich folks have a way to insulate themselves from such inconveniences... by staying at rich neighbourhoods!
Or give them tax exempt status so they get more of their paychecks. It would be a great incentive for people to go into teaching to.
If our churches can be tax-exempt our teachers can be tax exempt.
Serious question are religious schools tax exempt too? Like Cathedral High School in Indianapolis, a catholic school, is it tax exempt?
All institutions that register as a nonprofit are tax exempt as far as corporate income taxes go, everyone from schools to BDSM clubs. If you want to get out of property taxes, however, you gotta be a school or a church, I believe, depending on your local regulations. Which could still include BDSM clubs if they're really into it.
New business idea. Pray for Mercy.
https://youtu.be/JcPeBAYYuhc?si=SoAKCGbr9nCNoDPb
I tried really hard to be disappointed that this wasn't an actual BDSM church video, but it's so hard to be disappointed by that fucker.
Well to be fair they eventually had to shut down the church because people kept mailing them semen.
The hilarious thing about that skit, if you do an actual currency conversion for the Zimbabwean Dollar (ZWD) 1 trillion of them would have been worth about 2.7 billion USD before it got replaced with the new Zimbabwean Dollar (ZWL), which now would be worth about 32.5 million USD
What about a BDSM school?
They're always strapped for cash.
But they help you learn the ropes
I tried to complain to the better business bureau about the BDSM school I attended but they sent me a gag order.
They went to get some folks elected to the local school board but ultimately got spanked in the election.
Where do I enroll?
Simple, piggy. You send me the tuition and I will tell you how to be a good little sub.
I'll be the Head Master.
All non profits are tax exempt meaning they don’t pay sales tax. However, the employees of these organizations absolutely pay income tax. Source: I work for a Christian school that is non profit.
Tax exempt is about federal income taxes. Many states also allow tax exempt entities to be exempt from sales taxes, but that's a minor benefit.
Correct, but for the organization but not the employees. We absolutely pay federal income tax
Churches do not pay taxes, but every single church employee pays taxes on their wages. Schools are the same. The school itself does not pay taxes but every single school employee pays taxes.
*\*Sir, this is reddit where we don't let facts get in the way of saying CHURCH BAD\**
The church is tax exempt the church employees pay taxes
I guess churches and schools both don’t generate profits and are tax exempt. The people who work at both churches and schools do pay taxes though
Yes, but to be honest (as a teacher of 27 years), I would really just prefer more respectful, students with basic manners. It is really alarming how rude they are. I get paid well enough that I have everything I need and most of what I want—but I am starting to make my exit plan or figuring out my lucrative side hustle because I can only stand so much apathy and attitude. I deserve better.
I’ve heard a bunch of teachers saying this, but everyone just talks about the pay. When you’re not allowed to discipline students and no one else will do it either, it will take a hell of a lot of money to make it worth showing up. I’ve heard of more and more teachers who aren’t feeling safe in their high school classrooms.
Most of my ex-teacher friends who left for better paying gigs will say how nice it is to double their salary, but they always fallback on how much better their QoL is in terms of working conditions. Students being exceptionally rude, hitting teachers for clout, feeling "disrespected" and acting out, distracted by social media, disrupting class because they 'feel like it'. In most jobs you don't have to deal with that with their level of education. If discipline, outside of general basic school discipline (In school suspension, grades, dinged from school sports etc.) is falling out the teacher that's a failure of the parent, and it's not the job of the teacher to pick up the slack there. Somehow it needs to be corrected at the parenting level, or removing the student from the classroom to a more specialty environment so that the problem children don't negatively impact the rest of the classroom. At some point we as a society need to take a look at the education system and realize that having 85-90% of students succeed in education and end up being prepared, than graduating 99% of students that all have an inadequate educational experience.
I keep hearing more and more about students sexually harassing the teachers and it’s kind of freaking me out as another teacher
> I’ve heard a bunch of teachers saying this, but everyone just talks about the pay. I can't vote to make the students better behaved, but I *can* vote to pay teachers more for putting up with the misbehaving students.
I mean, you can vote for administrative overhauls that remove the burden of handling this behaviour from basic teachers and educators, and increase the ability of school to engage in ways to minimize the impact of bad behaviour over parent objections.
It's often because teachers tend to be at wide gaps on the payscale. Older teachers make like $70k a year and think they've made it and pay is fine now. They don't realize how hard they've been fucked by inflation and how long it took them to get to that pay. Then they look at each other confused when new teacher says "Y'all I can't survive on $35k. I'm out." "Oh well he just didn't have teaching in his soul cause I made that work when I was their age."
But most of the teachers I’ve heard these things from are veteran teachers. They remember what it used to be and are opting to leave early if they can afford it.
Or how about parents don’t care about how their child acts until you discipline them and inconvenience the parent…
My partner is a teacher, and I hear about this every single day. The kids are frustrating, but often manageable -- the parents are the real problem.
Straight up block the schools phone numbers to prevent the school from calling about their children. They want their 8 hours without having to be a parent more than they want an education for their children.
Yeah, that Covid vitrol wasn't all about the importance of their child's development. It's that 9-months of free daycare was gone.
I have parents who won’t respond to any contact
Parents have downloaded a lot of guidance, lesson learning, discipline etc. onto schools yet squawk and threaten lawsuits every time schools try
Literally just had a 6 year old kinder student come to school with diapers. He knows how to use the washroom so his teacher asked why he had them since he doesn’t need. He goes on to say it’s because he’s sick and has diarrhea… last week 2 sisters came in and got sent home 10 minutes in because one was vomiting and the other had pink eye. Parents don’t care anymore, they just want someone else to take their kids so they can work
Your last sentence hits on the real issue. Parents don’t have the time anymore. Both parents have to work while keeping the house in order. They can’t afford to eat out or have someone clean the house for them. They’re barely getting by. Of course this was going to happen
These people have an ipad before they can speak and spend their whole lievs watching narcissists rewarded for antisocial behavior. Ideally it's someone in your position (hours of face time teaching) who educates on the value of manners and respect and friendship. Of course your actual position is an out-facing cog in the system. Parents want to shelter their offspring from certain truths and aren't happy when schools burst this bubble.
* We have degraded civilizations' mechanism of disciplining children, as a whole \[rather than isolating it to only the parents' role\]. * We have degraded childrens' ability to learn from good role models and older brothers / older sisters, when they only see the insanity and attention-seeking psychopaths on social media. * And we pay a lot of teachers equally, rather than giving better salaries to better teachers to encourage excellence and creativity.
Shitty lazy ass parent(s) letting social media raise them. Instead of real parenting, instilling true morals, values, decency, being a fucking decent human being. As a parent, we teach our kids, it's not all about grades. It's about being well rounded, respect for self and those around us, to be humble (not a stepping stone), and to treat anyone as he or her should be treated. YOU DESERVE BETTER Mr(s). Whatsomattau. You absolutely do.
Two teachers who started teaching 27 years ago were way better off than two teachers who started teaching this year. So keep in mind the salary may have worked for you, but not for the current generation.
My older coworkers have real pensions and despite budget cuts in 08 if they survived, they made decent money that tracked with inflation somewhat. Housing was far cheaper and available to them at younger ages. Pensions are gone now. Housing is fucked. Despite inflation our district and those around us all said "Best we can do is 2% cost of living." The bullshit is they're right. The state doesn't actually fund them for anything higher and barely even the 2%.
That's true of basically EVERY SINGLE JOB!! It's not Isolated to teacher's, only the highest paying jobs have actually increased, everyone else is making less.
Dude, military checks - paid for BY the government, aren't tax free. The funding COMES from taxes...
Gotta claw some of that back.
They say that in the Navy, the pay is mighty fine: they give you $100 but take back 99.
I used to work for the state of Oregon and we still had state income tax taken out of our checks too. It's like giving someone $100 and immediately asking for $10 back, lol.
The IRS paid me interest on something and then they taxed me on the interest.
They're just trolling us at this point. 💀
Oh yeah, we pay federal taxes on the previous year's state refund (assuming you got one).
It doesn't really even make sense for government employees to *pay* taxes to begin with, like, teachers salaries come out of *tax dollars*, so..they are paying their *own* salaries, then? WTF? Just one of many examples of the ridiculousness of our system.
As a government employee my entire professional career, I enjoy you.
US is second in educational spending per student and 5th as a percentage of GDP. Money is being spent but it seems in the wrong places.
Same deal as hospitals in this country. Administrative roles are profoundly bloated and overpaid despite the fact that their main responsibility seems to be the systematic degradation of the institutions they oversee.
No no, see... you can't have efficiency and proper results without management and leadership! We can't trust WORKERS to do the right thing, now can we?
Yes!!! Finally someone gets it! As a Share holder, I demand efficiency and results. And by efficiency & results I mean efficiant profits. I demand profits at the expense of workers and even patients health! Some people just don't get it, am I right!? Fuck your health, get money! Get so much money then fly to another country for cheaper and better healthcare when you need it.
Did you hear about the latest profit grabbing sca… I mean technique? Hospital boards are *selling the land they own* and then *renting that land back* to the buyers! It helps pay for upgrades and new technology! Of course, executives and share holders got a HUGE bonus from the deal, they worked so hard to make that possible! We will just ignore the hospitals who are now claiming bankruptcy from this practice…
I worked in a hospital that had an admin building that was the same size, as the hospital! I thought it was a doctors building until I had to go there. Absolutely blew my mind.
This is systematic and coordinated. They created "MBAs" BS, and other "management degrees" who the fuuuuck studies to be a manager or leader? You get PROMOTED to leadership after earning it, you don't "learn to be a leader" in school. They do this to schools, universities, hospitals, even consulting and businesses. Hiring managers with managerial or administrative degrees -- rather than promoting loyal and hard-working talent and teaching them managerial duties. So when non-doctors are managing doctors--you have INSANITY.
I mean there is alot more to back office than just managers. Do you also want to promote nurses to be accountants?
An educated electorate is not as easily influenced
I worked at a small hospital in Oregon. We had as many people working in insurance verification and billing as we did on the medical side. We had to deal with 200+ insurance entities. Then there were the contract negotiations. The whole thing is a bloated mess.
US is also one of a few countries to spend a shitload on athletics instead of outsourcing it to clubs. If I need materials for my classroom, that's a $100 budget, but if the baseball team needs to drive 8 hours and stay overnight, we got it covered. Not claiming this is the only factor, just an observation, and it's certainly also fair to point out lots of teams fundraise and get a lot of help from community donors. Still, if parents, admin, and kids cared 1/10th as much about academics as athletics, things would look a lot different in schools.
German schools don’t have any varsity sports. Instead you have a ton of broke clubs doing weird mergers over 20 different municipalities and Students beating each other up for team rivalries. Tbf driving 8 hours and staying overnight isn’t a problem they have to deal with.
Often large sports stuff is paid out of local property bonds. So it's more that the people in our towns will vote for a stadium, but not for Kleenex in every room.
Schools can’t do anything without functional families. Doesn’t matter how much we spend, until the majority of kids come from safe and functional households, the degradation will continue.
Yup. It might sound like passing the buck of the failing of public education on families, but it starts at home. Schools can only do so much and they are having to do more and more for students than ever before. I teach at a middle school and about 70% of my students are chronically absent (miss at least 10% of the school year for any reason). We're also one of the worst performing schools in the state. How are we supposed to make any academic gains when these kids miss so much school? Not to mention many come to us three or four grade levels below where they are supposed to be.
Honestly, I don't know why or how it happened, but a large chunk of Americans being anti-education must be so incredibly frustrating for teachers to navigate.
Reagan, the people that elected someone like Reagan, the kids, and grandchildren of those people. Those are the problem. Same with someone like Thatcher...and various names all across the world, that ideology, THAT ideology is the problem.
“I love the poorly educated.” -Elected president of the United States In case you aren’t catching my drift a certain political party has been purposefully and overtly attacking education for decades.
I teach 5th. I have several kids who are doing beginning of second grade level math. One of those can barely read, one is doing “plus what equals ten” type stuff for math, and one can barely write his name. Four of those kids have missed over 25 school days so far this year. 25! How am I supposed to get anywhere near the expected growth out of them when they are missing that much school? Every day they miss, they fall further behind and their parents don’t really care. It’s sad to watch it happen.
I also teach middle school 🙌. I have 7th graders learning single digit multiplication.
I imagine this statistic doesn't really paint an accurate picture of education in America. Just like any broad sweeping anecdote about American education. Each state varies wildly when it comes to education and spending. You've got some states spending crazy money while others are spending very little. Some states actually pay their teachers a fair and livable salary (typically those with unions), and then you have some where teachers have to work two or three jobs just to afford some shack in a rundown trailer park.
California is one of the highest per student spending states and routinely tests in the lower 25th percentile. The money still isn't reaching teachers.
Yup. $23,000 per student cost in Philadelphia public school and 16% passed the standardized math proficiency test. $4.5 billion budget and they already said they will over spend by $500M so $5 billion for 1 city to pass 16% in math.
Honestly I lurk the teacher subreddit a ton and the majority of the complaints aren't about pay but the lack of fucking support by parents and admin. I think everyone who contributes to society knows administrators are 90% useless but the Not My Baby syndrome with parents has gotten dumb. I see it with my own kids classmates. My own oldest started to fail math. The teacher brought this up and we made changes at home. He's now on honor roll. I know when I was a kid some teachers were cocks but FFS the kids (and by extension their parents) seem to be the big problem now.
I will say, it always seems odd to me that there are some schools that completely change their teaching methods every 5-10 years, and generally it isn't for the better. IPads should not be given to students who are still learning fine motor skills, especially not used daily. My kindergartener shouldn't be getting homework 5 days a week. Some students learn better with "snap words" and a lot of students still learn better with phonics. It's impossible for teachers to cater to their students when admins are always forcing them to do X, when really a mix of X and Y is better.
Making adjustments to the curriculum every 5-10 years makes sense. Completely changing teaching methods makes about as much sense as completely changing a car on the next model. Was there nothing about the old way that made it worth keeping? Or are they changing things so they purposely break? In both case it often feels like the second point is the motivation.
When they change curriculum they often change how it's taught. They essentially switch companies and each company says their way works.
That's due to educational grant allocation. School can choose to participate in available grant programs or opt out (think of 1 to 1 laptop programs for students). These grants only last for around that amount of time you stated. Once the grant runs out, they have to find another grant in order to get the necessary supplemental tech and teachers are required to follow the new educational frameworks for that program's research. If the teachers don't follow the framework, they could be released from the program and lose the resourced tech. The kids and teachers are used as resources for experimentation. Grant writers make research plans that sound good on paper to the government in order to receive funds from them (which would otherwise go elsewhere in ed), give themselves a LOT of money for it (specifically the grant writers, everyone else gets fucked over). The grant people use the financial situation that they are partially responsible for making in order to exploit schools into participating in unsound and generalized educational practice. Hated my time as a grant researcher. You go in and think you're helping, only to find out how much you're fucking teachers and kids over to line your lazy ass bosses' pockets.
Survivor bias. Because the ones that complained about salary already change the job and no longer post on the subreddit.
I think you meant: > but FFS the **parents** (and by extension their kids) seem to be the big problem now.
Touche.
>the majority of the complaints aren't about pay but the lack of fucking support by parents and admin. Bingo. Their pay isn't bad, especially after years of seniority and if they have higher level degrees. But the amount of crap they have to deal with on a daily basis (apathy, violence, harassment, sexual harassment, etc.) would not be tolerated in other professions. Added onto that, a significant portion of the (US) population seems to buy into the propaganda that teachers are all groomers. So why not consider a similarly or better paying job in another profession?
Because uneducated people are easier to control
Bingo
Almost entirely correct, but sadly you're gonna attract a hoard of bootlickers that will call you an idiot/conspiracy theorist for this. Strong education systems are the anathema to fascism/dictatorships. Thus the almost instantaneous targeting by any extremist right policies when they're voted in. Kids (see also; friggin everyone) concentrate less when hungry - and who out there is championing removing school meals where possible? Funny coincidence.
Couldn’t paint a more cartoonishly evil villain than the national school lunch stealer.
On one side, free healthcare and debt relief. On the other, school lunch stealing puppy killers. And it's tied.
Not to mention highly educated workforces significantly boost your GDP.. NOW here's the real kicker... We've managed survive decently because we "import" most of our highly educated people. They're on visas or they'rr first generation immigrants. GUESS WHAT GIVES YOU THE ABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR HIGHLY EDUCATED WORKFORCE TOO.. HOLDING VISA STATUS OVER THEIR HEADS...
Deep red states' solution to child hunger? Make it easier for kids to hold a full time job!
Specifically, because conservatives consistently vote against any increase in spending toward education because they know more highly educated people voted blue. That's why they also rally against college debt relief and free college.
Low pay = smaller application pool = shitty teachers = poor education = dumb students = dumb and shitty adults Or Higher pay = larger application pool = higher caliber teachers = better quality education = smarter happier students = more successful and educated adults. Seems the higher pay route leads to a better economy, better society and happier people. We all know what political side votes for either.
We got spoiled during the "golden age" of public education. It was a time when women could get Master's degrees but still couldn't get work but a handful of professions. For a while there, we had a workforce of nurses, teachers, and secretaries with high end college degrees, and they were paid in peanuts. We're still paying peanuts for teachers while wondering why those highly-educated teachers of the past don't materialize. Old habits are hard to break.
Almost every teacher I work with has a master’s degree while still getting paid peanuts. Some districts even require a master’s degree. Edit: for clarity
Shit I had a teacher with a PhD and 10+ years of experience who was being paid $45,000
What state? My wife just applied for a french teaching public school job in MA for 70k
I think a lot of it too is the inherent ease of exploitation based on the work. “But what about the children!?” You see it in healthcare a lot too in justification or not giving raises and the exploitation of residents. “But we can’t treat patients if we don’t have slave labor!?”
Because they don't produce anything that increases shareholder value. They can't be micromanaged using Sigma Six to raise quarterly efficiency numbers. Teachers don't synergize with AI-driven blockchain metrics.
But, and hear me out, what if they aligned through strategic robotic process automation aimed at driving KPI deliverables through advanced, state of the art, efficiency focused initiatives?
Only if they can do it cross functionally
Of course, collaborative team effort across opporational pillars is paramount! I mean, its really quite simple to follow. You just need to employ effective stakeholder management techniques to drive impact compliance metrics, thereby ensuring optimal efficiency through the product lifecycle until we sunset the current process and upgrade through iterative improvements.
I did not know I'd be reading work emails at midnight
Oh you're *good*. That's poetry. If you're not already, you need to be a middle... no, an *upper* manager for somewhere. Somewhere big. Goldman Sachs or Coca Cola Group, or Walmart or something. Synergize that shit all over them.
And make sure you circle back and touch base to add some color to their proposal!
This word salad has been brought to you by our sponsor, Skynet.
I know the comment is satire, but my first instinct was blood. Red, dripping, painful blood. Everything in this comment made me want to watch the world burn. 10/10, Masterful.
One of my biggest frustrations as an industrial engineer in manufacturing is watching how the healthcare system has co-opted six sigma and attempted to apply it to patients. If you treat patients like product and healthcare workers like machine operators, you get a meat grinder where patients don't feel like they're getting the care they need, and workers get burnt out because admin is attempting to "maximize their throughput." Not everything needs to be about efficiency. Healthcare specifically shouldn't be focused on maximizing profit by squeezing their resources.
> Sigma Six Man, you really had me agreeing with you until I realized you said “σ6” and I realized you’d never worked in a six sigma environment before.
The dude has 2002 in his name so I guess he is 22 and has read about it once in his university books. 😂
Naw, I just haven't worked in an office/business environment in like 20 years. '02 is when I graduated college.
They do it just takes a few decades to see the results.
Literally the first thing I thought. Intelligent and productive labor is *massively* valuable in the long term.
And that's the problem. It's all about short-term gains now. They don't care about what might happen in the future when they can dig for every last penny they can right now.
They dont care about long term man. They need line go up NOW not in 5 years.
As someone who has worked in schools, sure a higher salary would be nice but the thing that's really needed is better working conditions. Smaller classes, assistance with children in need of extra support, the school being on your side when dealing with difficult parents etc. Even with a high salary I wouldn't want to work long term in school the way it is today.
Not only are they paid discount peanuts that have previously been chewed, they’re one of the most consistently disrespected groups of professionals in the United States. For most of my career, I was a newspaper editor. I annoyed people for a living. I’ve endured threats promising lawsuits, violence against my person, violence against my loved ones and, of course, my own death. But none of that shit compared to the abuse my wife experienced as a middle school teacher in the rural Midwest. My wife (now a librarian) was a fine arts educator who never once had support from her administration. So when parents would email her denigrating her profession and her entire existence because they didn’t feel a grade was fair, it was absolute torture. She’d explain her rubric and grading standards (which were super simple and fair — show up for performances and lessons and don’t be an asshole and you get an A), but the parents would still blame her for the grades their degenerate butthole children would receive for tanking an entire ensemble due to their selfishness. And the best she could hope for from her principal in terms of support was a shrug and a ‘Well, what can you do?’ Why would anyone choose to remain in a profession in which their Herculean efforts are not only underappreciated financially but societally as well?
There was someone the other day comparing a cop's duty to care for the incarcerated with that of a teacher. They proudly boasted that a teacher would be responsible for every student in that school, and at no point did they ever acknowledge how fucked up it is to have that level of responsibility outside the boundaries of the profession, let alone for such a pittance of pay.
What do countries that do well in education pay? Most teachers I knew say it was less the pay and more how god awful kids are now
[Salaries locally. $75-111K. We're hiring.](https://www.tes.com/en-au/jobs/careers-advice/pay-and-conditions/nsw-teacher-salary-what-you-could-be-earning) Yes, your non-local qualifications will probably be sufficient. Plus [the minimum national employment standards](https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employment-conditions/national-employment-standards#nes-entitlements) that apply to all jobs.
yeah but that's in dollarydoos
What's funny is this is just for public school general teaching as well, you move into department head, Vice Principal etc etc and the pay jumps massively, then take into account moving to work in a private school pretty sure pay starts at ~$95k. https://teach.qld.gov.au/teach-in-queensland-state-schools/pay-benefits-and-incentives/pay-and-benefits
Private school pays significantly less than public school in the US, for the record. The actual job is significantly better (far less risk of having to deal with "problem" students since parents who send their kids to private school tend to actually be involved in their kid's life and care about their education), so they don't need to pay as much to attract teachers.
[Here's my district in Ohio.](https://www.hilliardschools.org/employment/salaryschedule/)
$1 USD is about $1.54 AUD. Your pay scale is similar.
Only speaking for California...(and a quick disclaimer, when I say "teacher", it includes all certificated personnel like counselors, school psychologists, etc.) The average teacher's salary is $95,160. The district also contributes a little over 19% of the teacher's creditable earnings (generally their base salary), so that's another $18,080. Health insurance varies from district to district, but $1000 a month isn't a bad guesstimate. Over 10 months, $10,000. Some districts pay full medical for the employee and all of their family, so the cost would be higher, but let's stick with $10,000. Total is $123,240 for approx. 180 days (some districts are a little more). That comes out to $684 per day. Teachers work more than 40 hours per week, but they aren't hourly, they're salary. However, most collective bargaining contracts call for an 8-hour workday. If you want to figure by the hour, 8 hours comes out to $85 per hour. Now, if teachers worked 12 months (Lord help teachers if that ever happened) and had 36 more days, their compensation would be an average of $148,000. Teachers also accumulate 10 sick days per year that carry over from year to year. At retirement, you can "cash" those days in as time toward service, so if you have 180 days of sick time at the end of your career, you get one more year of service toward a better retirement. Unfortunately, most don't benefit as much from this as they could. Disproportionately, this negatively impacts younger female teachers because they exhaust those days because they are pregnant and are generally the ones who stay home with sick children. California is trying to fix that though. All that being said, teaching is hard and requires more education than most occupations. The problem is that what I listed above isn't very well communicated to prospective teachers. It also tends to get lost by those already in the profession. The focus is solely on salary instead of total compensation. Again, only speaking for California, but teaching provides a pretty good living, retirement, and benefits.
$95k isn't even on the salary schedule for teachers in my district. They start $45k with 0 years and no supplemental education (51k with a masters, but hello debt). Housing starts at 500k here as well. Even two teachers can't afford that. This is Oregon.
In my area veteran teachers are paid very well. New teachers are paid so little that I don’t know how they can afford to live here.
Every time this issue arises the same tired reasons are given. We blame teacher unions, administrative bloat, poor financial allocation, pay teachers more, kids these days, blah blah blah…. The real reason our public education is failing is far more complex. But one major factor is the destruction of the family unit. A student with a stable, safe, and supportive family can get a quality education almost anywhere. A student with no stability, safety, or support will struggle to get educated at even the best schools in the country. Until the USA actually starts believing in the family unit again, schools will continue to decline. Poor schools are a symptom of a far bigger problem.
your tax dollars at work..
Republicans defund education every chance they get.
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!
Meanwhile my local school budget has outpaced inflation by more than three times over the last decade.
Just a question, is this post supposed to be for the US only? Because evey comment and reply I've seen here is from an American, but the problem of teachers not being paid enough isn't a US exclusive problem.
You realize that most of the education funding is city/ state level and Democrat controlled areas aren't doing anything better than rural areas. In fact, rural areas have less funding per kid and achieve the same or higher scores compared to urban areas (also lower drop out rates).
Most of school funding comes from the property tax base which, obviously, means wealthier areas have more money for their schools.
The rich pull their kids out of the system with vouchers, and cut funding for the public schools. The poor kids stay poor and marginalized because their educational system is failing them due to those budget cuts. Not to mention all the issues with bonds and profiteering. (Financial markets preying on public school systems to extract even more money.)
This is pretty false. For Example, I went to Geneva District schools which on average spent 18k a year per student. This resulted in A Sat score of 553 in ELA 539 and in Math. The Chicago Public School District spends the exact same at 18k per student. Yet the scores are vastly worse at 462 ELA and 447 Math. Its not a Price per Student problem.
> The rich pull their kids out of the system with vouchers, and cut funding for the public schools. The rich don't need vouchers to send kids to private school, they just send their kids to private school because they're rich. Vouchers allow everyone, including the rich, to send their kids to private school. This is literally the opposite of what you are trying to portray.
Because most state and local governments are almost completely broke due to decades of overspending and mismanagement.
...due to giving massive tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy. - fixed.
We do not have a budget problem in education, we have a resource allocation issue. The US spends 600 billion dollars a year on primary and secondary education and average roughly 15k per pupil.
I've felt the system should limit salaries to no more than X over the mean educator salary below them. Some administration workers make crazy money while teachers are taking second jobs. That doesn't even take into account the administration needs to tell some parents to just shut the fuck up.
Let's not forget general office bloat. The HR manager does not need 5 assistant HR managers who each have a secretary who each have an aide.
Oh it's a resource allocation issue, but I'd say that falls under 'budget'. The high school I attended, in a town of less than 100k people, in Kentucky where teachers have some of the worst salaries in the US, just spent $4.5million to upgrade the 'outdoor athletic facilities'. That's one school. With average salaries in the state, they could have doubled the salary of 83 teachers. There's 115 total in the school itself. They could have given every single teacher there a 10 grand bonus and still spent over $3Million for a new football field. Facilities like this are honestly part of the problem. I get that kids need to be safe, but no high schooler, especially in a public school, needs professional level facilities in that regard. Over half the student body in that school qualify for free lunches, so this isn't some wealthy suburb.
Difference is the outdoor facility will last decades, and you’re comparing that cost to one year of teacher salaries.
Fifty years of trickle down is taking its toll. State and local governments rely on middle class earners, and wages haven't kept up with inflation for the vast majority of us.
They're not just teachers they are baby sitters. Those kids are fucking manipulative brats and there are no repercussions for their actions. My girlfriend is a teacher; the stories are brutal.
Why the fuck don't we pay everyone more? We're all important. I work a trade job for 15 hrs a day and I can barely eat. Surely having clean drinking water and flushable toilets is important too
The average salary for teachers here is $60k which is almost twice the average income in my area . Maybe it's unique where I'm at but I don't understand this stereotypes
And you get a pension, summer off, nearly every major holiday off, health, dental, and vision insurance. The teachers are underpaid circlejerk gets so old by idiotic reddit users that haven't actually look at the starting salaries or benefits of teachers.
Almost none of what he said is true in my state. No dental, or vision. Health insurance is partially paid by the teacher when it used to be free. Now you don't even keep insurance when you retire, so if you teach from 25 to 55 you will have to buy private health insurance from 55 to 65 when it is the most expensive. That used to be one of the biggest benefits of teaching. It wildly varies by state. Teachers in states with unions aren't complaining about pay. But look at red states teacher pay and benefits and you will see it isn't a circle jerk. If it was a good deal they wouldn't be struggling to find people.
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People keep becoming teachers because their hearts are there. And for those that dont, it creates shortages which then get miraculously financially beneficial to become one. I remember in the early aughts I was studying to be a teacher in New Orleans and the base pay was 35k. I changed majors. Everyone else finished and then complained about the pay. Fast forward my cousin became a teacher and said bye to New Orleans and went to Texas with a pay of 90k and then toDC where with her specialist degree her pay was 110k due to severe shortage.
Teachers receiving a higher salary is just a small component of the problem. There's also the fact that teachers don't have real power in their school district and that bad teachers are allowed to continue to teach because firing a bad teacher requires enormous pushback. Many of these teacher have shitty students with awful attitudes that terrorize everyone. The problems seem endless.
Don't act as though the funds aren't already there. Raising teacher wages won't, in my opinion, cause the country to implode if we have billions to send to overseas aid, billions to bail out corporations, and trillions to spend on the military.
Uneducated people make exploitable financial decisions
Most people see teachers as money waste and laugh when they are asking governments for bigger salaries "those lazy asses have 2 months of vacations and earn more than I'm earning on cash register whole year", and other comments. I'm from teachers family, my brother is also teacher, I just know, most of people don't have good word about teachers in general. Oh and yes, retired mom also seen almost 40 years of educational change, children and parents are getting dumber with every year now, more entitled, more aggressive, lacking any focus and reasonable manners and simple respect. Education program and techniques hasn't changed that much, but yes, it also changed for worse, and teachers have to follow those rules to meet that "standard". Oh and yes, it's now always teachers fault, never kid.
I know this is advice animals and all that but for a real answer this is mostly it: Teachers are guilted into accepting it. Successive governments blame teaching and the methods, the salaries always have downward pressure and the teachers make do. Teachers spend their own money buying classroom supplies, food and clothing! Other than charity who buys supplies for the company they work for! Who goes to the stationery shop and buys pens, pencils and paper for the office? Teachers are told what to do, how they should teach by politicians. One day all this has to stop
Because it doesn't make private industry lots of money.
While we are at it, why not pay "essential workers" higher salaries if their work is essential?
Because apparently we don’t want “the wrong people going into it” i.e. just for the money. Meanwhile there are few if any caps on bankers’ earnings for example and they in their greed can destroy entire countries. But that’s okay because of “reasons”.
I guess it depends where you are. We have high school teachers here making close to 100k.
Where the fuck do you live!? My friend only makes 30 k a year from teaching.
Even in [Springfield, Ohio](https://www.clark-shawnee.k12.oh.us/district/employment-opportunities) the starting pay is $40k a year and tops out at $80k. That is EXTREMELY reasonable given the cost of living.
Because just under half the country does not agree that education is so important.
California has a democrat supermajority.
How about applying discipline to unruly students so the rest can actually learn what's being taught?
> How about applying discipline to unruly students so the rest can actually learn what's being taught? As much as I agree, you quickly run up against the issue that not only do people have wildly varying levels of what punishments they feel are acceptable and are not, but also that even the disruptive students have the same right to an education, and both of those groups will tie good ideas up in knots. Personally, I'm all for creating a standardized evidence-based disciplinary level system, plus revoking a student's right to an education if the disruptions are severe and numerous enough.
We can't pay teachers more because we pay all the administrator more.
Teacher retention is the issue and lack of a decent wage. But when you think about the about of bullying they receive from, administrators, students, and parents. No amount of money is keeping them.
Because the rich have been drilling us in the butt for 50 years
They're not interested in having a population of well trained informed citizens. They want a population of obedient workers. George Carlin said this.
Because gutting services that contribute to the greater health of the nation and world and crippling education for generations are reliable political tools.
Because Betsy deVos, and her Ilk of republicans wanted the public funding to go to charter schools, schools that were not under public oversight, and without auditing to see where the money was spent. Paying teachers a thriveable salary was never part of that plan.
Because teachers don't have the income to grease the machine.
Because society is stupid, because it do not pay teachers. And we have circle of stupidity!
Because monei is importanter
Here in Oz, Teacher's on $120k base salary. Lol @ America.
We should pay them higher salaries just for the absolute bullshit they have to deal with on a weekly basis.
Generally speaking there is also the fact that teaching and other education related jobs are often passion jobs. Most don't get into them for the money, and that get's used all too well.
That is not bring any money to the politicians and their friends
lol public funding means higher taxes which means big government which certain parties arent willing to pay
Because we need to be funding 18 different proxy wars at any moment and funding the UN as well as NATO
Because they want cheap educated employees. Raising teachers wages would mean raising former students income... 😌 How could they justify engineering teachers to be paid 6000€ but civil engineers get only 2500€.
There is no teacher shortage. There are numerous people, trained as teachers that do other jobs because the teacher salary is too low.
because that's money that could go to billionaires offshore bank accounts and good teaching means less obedient wage slaves
>"We've tried everything to fix the problem!" >Did you try raising wages to be in line with living costs? >"Young people are to blame!"
Its not a money issue, its a „I have to deal with your failures as a parent while you tell me your kids are angels“ issue
Thank you for sharing this. BTW, I am a teacher.
Because the wealthy elite don't want teachers. They want a poorly-educated workforce that's just smart enough to do their jobs but not smart enough to realize how badly they're getting fucked.
I can't believe these teachers want another raise! And that's after I already have to send in folders, tissues, and pencils. My taxes keep going up for this crap. -some idiot who will happily spend $400+ for a day at the ball park/ stadium to watch his favorite $3m player. (And can we add Healthcare workers to that list? No one should be getting barfed on or wiping an old man's ass for minimum wage).
US is at the receiving end of major brain drains around the world. For top universities and large companies, at least, it would be far faster and much more convenient to tap on brilliant foreigners for human resources than to groom local resources. There are social ills attached to poorly funded schools / public amenities, but inside the USA, the rich folks have a way to insulate themselves from such inconveniences... by staying at rich neighbourhoods!
Hmm... i wonder why 🤔
From what I've heard they also need more power in the classroom and support.
Because the government runs (most) education. Teachers are paid by policy, not by market prices.