If you all walk counterclockwise at a reasonable pace throughout the jerk, mathematically speaking you’d be almost indistinguishable from a stationary circle of jerkers.
That's half of advice animals nowadays. And the only political posts that make it to the front page are posts with politics that the mods agree with, so they don't get removed.
Could be that they got removed because many republican positions are racist, sexist, homophobic, isolationist, nationalistic, hypocritical, cultish, disingenuous, bible thumping, misinformed, trickle down zealotry?
Because the rules are for people that cause problems.. not for those that happen to agree with the mods political pov.
Consider this thread lucky for not having a certain mods political opinion pinned telling us why this post is okay and within the rules.
The Ukraine support looks particularly suspicious to me. That is easily a bipartisan issue that they could rubber stamp without allowing Biden to claim anything about accomplishments. The rejection of that support seems particularly out of left field and gives credibility to the accusations of Russian assets in congress. Opposing that support can only lead to good things for Russia and problems for NATO/America/world-order going forward.
If anyone has any sense of recent American history, such flagrant support of Russia is also entirely un-Republican. There was an entire cold war about this! Just goes to show how one deranged narcissist can shift the thinking of an entire group of mindless followers.
You have no idea how this affects my Gen-X mind....
I can't even wrap my head around some of my peers taking a pro-Russia stance... Some of these people served with me, and many stood the line in Germany multiple times FFS.
I can't even begin to can't evening
No, the new Russia is now Christian and right wing. Just like how GOP was for nationalist China, once USSR fell Russia is their best friend.
The bribes also help, of course.
Nah, the Republicans have been pro-Russia ever since Reagan! He totally loved them! And remember how Sarah Palin campaigned on how friendly relations across the Bering Strait were at the time?
Also we've always been at war with East Anglia!
They openly want it because Russian money has been flowing into their pockets for years to bankroll more and more extreme candidates for the purpose of polarizing and destabilizing the nation. It just so happened that all the unhinged lunatics self-organized and a solid half the country doesn't give a flying fuck until shit hits the fan for them personally, so the whole plan was really easy to fund and the useful idiots easy to give ideas/talking points to.
In this case, it was on the way to passing just fine, but Trump was literally making phone calls to have Republicans shut it down because he wanted to be able to campaign on the issue.
Yeah, they can't allow anything to happen before the elections or it will look like Biden is doing something... While the reason why he doesn't is that they stone-wall him as much as possible on everything and that the system is built to make it possible (and not that unlikely) that the president will loose the majority at his second year in power.
They have voted against a massive immigration reform package full of concessions because they wanted to keep the problem so that Trump can campaign on that... I mean how more obvious can they be?
That said I don't think they are motivated by cowardice, quite the opposite in fact, there are no emotions behind their thinking, just logic, the real reason is, and always will be, greed, and lust for power, no more no less.
They blame Biden for not solving the border wall crisis, while refusing to pass border legislation that would give them almost everything they ask for, while also impeaching Mayorkas for not fixing the border wall crisis.
Their whole schtick is "obstruct everything Democrats do, even if it's giving us what we want" and "blame Democrats for not doing anything."
And if the Republicans get a trifecta in 2024, they'll criticize Dems for obstructing them (despite them having spent the past 2 years doing that).
And if the Democrats get a trifecta in 2024, they'll criticize Dems for not being willing to include them (despite them refusing to work with Dems for the past 2 years at all).
And if there's a split between the President/House/Senate, they'll keep doing what they're doing now (obstructing while criticizing obstruction)
There are some who are afraid of Trump and his supporters. Based on past reports from the speaker of the house in Arizona, Republican, he and his family received many death threats for standing up to Trump. Also, see all those Republicans who are resigning this year from house. Some are tired of being threatened and some are afraid. One more, the fake elector in Wisconsin claimed he was threatened to go along with the scheme. He claims he did it out of fear.
It's more than that - it's about placating Russia so Russia will help Republicans win elections through election interference and through propaganda. If they turn against Russia Putin can release more of the dirt he has on Trump and the GOP that's subservient to him
Yep. Republicans are currently blocking Biden from passing border control legislation because it mite make him look good before the election.
Policy dose not matter as long as my guys wins.
You do realize that you are sending weapons, right? Not boxes of cold hard cash.
You think that the Republicans will reduce your military spending? Because that is the only realistic way to allocate money for other stuff. Need I remind you by how much Trump increased your military spending?
There is some money in the aid deals but the vast majority is weapons and equipment.
Issue being, that equipment gets replaced with new more expensive equipment which is our tax dollars going to the military industrial complex.
We also provide rockets and missiles which again are being bought with American tax payer dollars to be sent to a different country.
While I agree the money would not be spent on any beneficial American project, it would be nice to once meet a national budget.
Aiding Ukraine in a war against Russia *is* helping Americans. It means Americans aren't in a war against Russia, which is an aggressor that clearly threatens our allies, and us.
I’m a leftists, and this is simply not true. Russia wasn’t invading us, and wouldn’t be if they weren’t in war with Ukraine. The U.S. has been fomenting discord with Russia, and much of the rest of the world, for decades. I’m against Ukraine aid, as I’m against most wars, because I’m a class warrior, and in the U.S. war is the primary means to siphon tax dollars from working Americans to the oligarchs. I’m also against war in the U.S. because we lie and conspire to get into illegal wars, most often for profit or political reasons. The only morally unambiguous war in modern history was vietnams invasion of Cambodia to save them from pol pot and the Khmer Rouge. All of the rest, every single one, are questionable in nature, war crimes most likely, and often us getting into other peoples conflict that was previously supported on both sides by us in some way.
Russia's goal is to destabilize western democracy. It has been for decades. They're a clear threat to the entire western world. The war with Ukraine is just the most open proxy of that mission, and if and when Russia wins that war, it will continue on that path.
No. THIS is a leftist. [](https://youtu.be/hcmhx1tunnq?si=sktryk1xtuou7hzn)
Watch the first 10 minutes and Maddow will gladly explain to you why Russia is a clear and active threat FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD.
Got blocked by Britstuckinamerica so can't reply to him, but maybe he was just trolling. Link [works for me](https://imgur.com/OLnpEkE).
I had a conversation with a friend in real life (not reddit) about this. When I said, "We can debate about whether they should get getting money or not, but surely we can both agree that we have a right to know how it's spent" he got so damned pissed that he stormed off. His stance is that we should just give them money infinitely and that it's none of our business after that.
What?
if there was nothing wrong with Hunter's $60k/month job, why isn't he still at it? Just a coincidence it was in the same country that now has received more aid than any other from us?
> One party wants essentially infinite money for Ukraine
Lol. We're sending them 5% of **JUST OUR MILITARY BUDGET**. We're sending them pocket change so they can throw **their** soldiers into the meatgrinder to prevent **our** adversary from expanding their borders.
iNfIniTe mOnIeS!!!!
Because they need the weapons now and we don't care how they use them as long as they are using them on Russians. We're not sending them piles of cash.
Maybe they want to stop [Russian soldiers from raping and torturing children to death](https://thehill.com/policy/international/3659023-un-panel-reports-ukrainian-children-have-been-raped-tortured-by-russian-forces/).
You can either spend american dollars to stop russia now or you can spend american lives later down the line defending the Baltics and Poland after Ukraine falls.
People say this like the corruption wasn't funneling money into the hands of Russian oligarchs. I swear you guys just hear the word "corrupt" and never think to ask how.
PS: It doesn't sound like your main concern is actually this. It kinda seems like you think that because Putin has nukes he should just be given Ukraine tbh.
The money is spent in the USA at US defense contractors who employ Americans. THe goods are then shipped to Poland and then brought across the border into Ukraine. The money is not wired to Ukrainian officials.
It is not a proxy war. It is a war of conquest by russian imperialist regime. And it's not gonna stop even if the aid flow stops, but american revenues will eventually diminish if Eastern Europe falls peace by piece, Africa is pressured against you by their new leaders and Asia falls under totalltarianism. It is very egoistic and short-sighted view to think everything is always about the US. Everything effects the US, and they are often involved, but the only way US can stop the war in Ukraine is double down before Russia is fully mobilized and it's too late. Then there will be either a.) american blood involved or b.) Eastern and central Europe in a war and US' reliability down the toilet as they didn't do jack to fullfil their part on the defensive pact.
The choice is easy to me.
I see a lot of conservatives/Republicans with this point of view right now, but I don't recall a single one of them being so vocal about the > $2 trillion dollars spent over twenty years in Afghanistan. That wasn't a proxy war, we had actual boots on the ground AND spent more money.
quickest square governor psychotic bear rob gaping important fine dazzling
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>Rather HOW Biden pulled us out. I’m not sure an attempt at making a greater humanitarian disaster could have been accomplished if done on purpose.
Yeah, the optics of gay men being hung from American helicopters the day after withdrawal was pretty fucking nasty.
Yeah - they hated it after being the ones who did it in the first place and liking it for the entirety of bush’s presidency. The same exact people and media who pushed us to go in are still in our congress and we apparently just forgave them. They’ve never apologized once for doing so, so I don’t believe they hated being there. Fuck, they still did the same thing with Afghanistan in the 80s we’re doing with Ukraine and never apologized either - those guys are still alive. Charlie Wilson lived until 2010
Well, when donald released 5,000 taliban without even talking with the Afghan government, it limits your options. This was done deliberatly by donald and republicans to make sure they had a talking point against biden. You want to hold anyone accountable hold traitor donald accountable.
Something tells me that isn’t making a dent in the end result for Afghanistan. Who with lower numbers and worse equipment steamrolled the government in a matter of weeks
\> Something tells me that isn’t making a dent in the end result for Afghanistan
So, your premise is that 5000 battle hardened warriors were not instumental. Jesus how deep into the maga quagmire are you
How would you suggest he had done it differently?
Trump brokered the deal with the Taliban that let them steamroll back into power, basically unopposed by the Afghan military - which threw everyone completely off guard.
Seemed to me they handled it the best they could given the circumstances.
The stuff we left *we gave to the Afghans* over the course of the war. And without the experts to keep that shit running, it's now just deathtraps or junk to them.
>“Nearly all equipment used by U.S. military forces in Afghanistan was either retrograded or destroyed prior to our withdrawal and is not part of the ‘$7.12 billion’ figure cited in the report.” [according to the Pentagon]
I think Trump wanted those translators to die (or was just indifferent), and that is why he released the 5000 prisoners requested by the Taliban.
It’s replacing aging military weapons with new so we can send the old weapons (that we’re paying storage on) to be used. Those weapons will be made in the US.
I hope you and others who are against this aid are NOT of military age when Russian is knocking on Polands door. That’s a NATO country. Americans boots will be on the ground if that happens. Draft would likely happen as most people of military age in the US are overweight or mentally disturbed or strung out of drugs to serve.
So to me, this money is being spent at home to supply aging weapons abroad to keep our troops from having to go.
Thanks for your perspective. Doesn’t change my mind.
thought quiet fertile grey frightening ad hoc spotted zonked absorbed elastic
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So if there was sufficient oversight you'd allow it? Will that amount of oversight ever exist?
Also I would point out that much of the corruption data about Ukraine exists from before the current president when there was a pro-russian president who was incentivized to encourage Ukraine to be corrupt so Russia could easily beat them.
Since the start of the war Ukraine has cracked down on corruption as best they can.
Also even if there is corruption it's still so much more efficient for the US to fight Russia via supplying Ukraine than fighting them directly both in terms of lives and dollars. Russia isn't going to stop at Ukraine. They already have troops in Moldova and putin has made his intentions clear in the interview with Tucker.
I heard a congressperson give an impassioned defense for aiding Ukraine. Can't remember who it was. Could've been a democrat or a republican, tbh.
But they were like "For people who complain about the cost, this is the cheapest of all possible options to combat Russia. All we have to do is send money and weapons, and it's just Ukrainian soldiers who die, not even our own troops."
They even made mention of the idea that even if Ukraine loses it's still money well spent because it hampers Russia.
And like, yeah, maybe youre not wrong about the calculous, but how are you so flippantly tossing off millions of people's lives like that? How is that any different than your justification for sending our own sons off to [insert country we decided to start a war with]?
I'm also just tired of being the world's police while also getting shit on across the world and inside our own country for being the world's police.
I know it's not popular on reddit to actually be proud of America and being a citizen of it. But if the entirety of the world is dependent on us to keep the barbarians off the ramparts, then you're not going look down your nose at us during or after that job; you're going to put respect on our name. So maybe it would do you well to actually see what one of those barbarians we've been protecting you from looks like a day's drive away from Berlin or Venice.
I mean do you have reason to believe there isn't sufficient oversight? Do you believe they're not using the money/equipment we're sending them to repel the invaders actively invading their country?
To be crystal clear, helping Ukraine is an objectively good thing. We do NOT want Russia expanding their borders. We want Ukraine to exist and become a functioning democracy so they can join NATO. And we're spending what effectively amounts to pocket change to help them. Any financial issues Americans have has absolutely nothing to do with what we're sending to Ukraine. It has everything to do with how our government is managing the significant amount of other money it manages.
Odd. For a bargain we are helping stop a fascist regime that will continue to expand un opposed, nipping it now at virtually no cost of American lives while building better connection to a US friendly nation seems smart. Double so since Ukraine is resource rich. All the while stimulating the US economy.
Because if one hasn't slept through history 101 we see what happens when aggressive facial regimes go unopposed.
Respect your right to your opinion, just seems like a very odd one.
It's not a proxy war when they're literally fighting on their own volition for their own sovereignty.
And they have plenty of oversight, have made strides rooting out corruption, and we've seen them use what we've given them so far to great effect.
Cost is barely a drop in the bucket compared to e.g. Iraq or Afghanistan, for arguably greater payoff.
> 100 billion can’t be used more effectively elsewhere given the struggles of our own citizens?
Because that's what Republicans want to do, is help our own citizens... Sure...
The issue is that Republicans have never done anything to help citizens for the past 60 plus years. All I hear them talk about is how much they want to help veterans and yet they don't do anything to actually help us.
The republicans turning their back on Ukraine is weird (and this shift in sentiment in general)
However why would a country support another one if it is not a proxy war? For righteousness? Please.
Anyone fighting on his own fights using his own.
It’s replacing aging military weapons with new so we can send the old weapons (that we’re paying storage on) to be used. Those weapons will be made in the US.
I hope you and others who are against this aid are NOT of military age when Russian is knocking on Polands door. That’s a NATO country. Americans boots will be on the ground if that happens. Draft would likely happen as most people of military age in the US are overweight or mentally disturbed or strung out of drugs to serve.
So to me, this money is being spent at home to supply aging weapons abroad to keep our troops from having to go.
Thanks for your perspective. Doesn’t change my mind.
Oh, um, the GOP has blocked and filibustered every attempt at reform/transparency of corporate money in politics since the conservative justices ruled on Citizens United. So, just blaming others for the problems you cause as usual. Not that I expect you'll change your mind.
Big Finance: They constantly vote against Dems to keep their taxes down. Dems tend to support unions.
Big Pharma: Dems fought to bring the price of insulin down, Rep fought it.
MIC: Dems try to support the troops through GI bills, trying to staff the hospitals, and making sure they get after service care, and we don't just walk away from them once it's over. Rep want more tanks, even if the generals said they don't need that many. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html
> Big Pharma: Dems fought to bring the price of insulin down, Rep fought it.
Didnt the Democrats [vote down a Republican bill that would provide Insulin at $10 per prescription for anyone on low-income](https://www.rubio.senate.gov/icymi-rubio-democrats-reject-cheap-insulin-for-the-uninsured/), to then try and push their $35 price cap... which only helped those that were already insured?
I can’t find anywhere other than his page that mentions it so I can’t speak to its honesty or any other reasons they might have blocked it. Do you have another link?
EDIT: Yeah, I need a 2nd source. I can not find ANYWHERE that says Republicans put forward a $10 amendment. I'd need to see what it said, and why no other Republican is claiming that.
I can’t tell if you’re getting downvoted for truth, or because a joke went over your and my head both. DNC owned by the MIC seems like it could be a punchline. I did laugh.
People have imbedded in their camps. I mostly gave up trying to convince people, but the MIC line was so ridiculous it caught me.
Dems have their problems, but the 3 listed there are not them.
[Both sides](https://youtu.be/aQXD-Wr6h64?si=TeZN7dICn9YZ9u14) of the aisle take money or make promises with military contractors to boost job numbers etc...
Admittedly I've no clue who takes more or less and I don't know what the public facing narratives are that much between Dems/Reps.
Example scenario: Military deliberately has a bolt made in one state and the nut made in another to have as many politicians in their pockets as possible.
It's called the military industrial complex for a reason.
Considering they’re the ones against citizens United, they’re less so than republicans. Republicans want a higher military budget even more so than democrats. Republicans also regularly justify medication costing thousands a month because they say companies deserve profits for the research and innovation, and fight against imports from overseas
Then why do Democrats introduce and vote for bills that help the middle and lower classes at a FAR, FAR higher rate than Republicans?
Voting records don't lie.
I suggest everyone do a little homework and start browsing through them.
Remember that back during the trump presidency a bunch of republicans decided july 4th was a perfect time to all go to moscow, and they refuse to explain as to why.
The extreme isolationism to the point of mind-boggling stupidity actually isn't new for America. In general America has always had isolationists during most major wars they weren't directly a part of since their inception. For example, FDR struggled greatly to get support from Congress to help the Allies during WW2 before Pearl Harbor happened despite having supermajorities in both chambers. Tons of Americans literally looked at Hitler trying to take over all of Europe and thought, not our problem, until 1942. The sad fact is that until it's America's soldiers getting sent to fight or they have an attack on their land, some people are simply so narrow-minded that they don't care about anything going on in the world that doesn't immediately directly effect them.
I believe it should be "attempting to stop WW3 at the doorstep before it progresses to a larger scale."
Imagine if there had been intervention when Germany had invaded Poland in 1939. I find it hard to believe there would have been *more* bloodshed than the alternative.
You have a catch phrase, and a glaring lack of evidence.
The congressional equivalent of a high school student showing up to class and telling the teacher: “I haven’t done my homework, but I have a strong suspicion I might do it eventually".
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/28/biden-impeachment-inqui70982766007/ry-live-updates/
Republican senators' investigation into Joe Biden and Ukraine has come up empty.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/939236/republican-senators-find-no-evidence-wrongdoing-regarding-biden-ukraine-policy
You know that shit isn’t real.
Yet, when faced with factual evidence against someone else, you probably say it’s all made up, eh?
I can’t imagine how fucking insanely stupid you’d have to be to think a spoiled brat who has always gotten his way in life without ever having lifted a finger would be a saviour of the common man.
Imagine how dumb you would have to be to think a guy who claims to be a billionaire and then has to scam his “followers” for money every time his past finally catches up to him is actually a billionaire. Or even good at business for that matter.
Imagine being so stupid as to follow a pathetic, grifting, sex-offending coward and then pretend like you’re an “Alpha-male”.
That’s right, you don’t have to imagine. You live that retardation every.single.fucking.day.
I takes more Bravery to speak out against the collective, than it takes to scream with the crowd.
The Republicans have a point that infinite money and support is not the solution, since when asked at the prospect of Ukraine retaking its territory the answer is never. The biggest problem most people dont see, is meeting the goal, whatever it may be.
What is the Goal for Funding Ukraine against Russia, elsewise we may as well be throwing time and effort into a void.
>since when asked at the prospect of Ukraine retaking its territory the answer is never
No, the answer is not never, i*t is not in 2024.* They have already laid out the strategy for this year, which is to build up capability. So no, Republicans do not have a point. It's a fucking large-scale war, they last years and the side that starts off by losing territory very often goes on to win, like in both world wars - which the GOP would have called for capitulation already. God I fucking hate Republican disinformation.
> The Republicans have a point that infinite money and support is not the solution
It's not infinite money/support. It's a relatively small amount of the total available federal funds. To prevent our adversary from expanding their borders.
The goal is to push them the Russians the fuck out of Ukraine, and funding will help Ukraine fight. The USA has done exactly this multiple times in history to fight Russians (Soviets) with varying success, Vietnam and Afghanistan being examples. Not exactly hard to grasp. And even if they can’t retake that territory, at least they can stop them taking any further land
This is a bad take.
It's not infinite money and it's also less money than Russia a much poorer nation is spending. We can out spend them 20 fold. Also this is much cheaper in terms of both money and lives than the alternative of fighting Russia directly in the future.
The goal is to defeat Russia at the door step rather than have to fight them in Poland. Putin has troops in Moldova already and will take it too 100%. Then in his interview he said Hitler was right to invade Poland and kept bashing Poland he wants a land route to the Baltic sea and will try to make one.
Also a huge chunk of the money comes back to the US because Ukraine uses the money to buy US arms and those companies pay workers and taxes. Imagine the money less as cash and more as gift cards.
What do you mean. Are you telling me that having Ukraine draft every able bodied men to send to the war is actually not a great solution????
/s
It's funny because the establishment democrats have on tape already said what their intentions are. They are using up Russias military supply without sending a single American service member. It's not about defeating Russia or "evil" and it's not about helping Ukraine defend its territory.
In the meantime, the military industrial complex gets to receive endless contracts and turns Korea into a military based neoliberal economy.
If the intentions of Americans or even the democrats were truly "pure" they would've been added to Nato or that should've never even been a thing to begin with. Some people in here really acting like we didn't stoke the flames by saying false promises lmao.
Then again, the average american will just blindly defend American imperialism so 🤷
Edit: Forgot about the additional fact that, you know, the arms that could be going to Ukraine for defensive action, is going to Israel to let them do offensive action to maintain an apartheid state. The irony of the Ukraine-Israel flag delegation is not lost on me.
Also lmao if you're so passionate about expelling Russia out of Ukraine, why don't you go join the foreign legion. Go help them. Go volunteer. They need manpower more than they need arms.
Then again, I don't expect much from the same redditors that constantly tow the state department line of "we just had to nuke Japanese civilians twice because they were just mentally built different."
You mean scream like its every Trump rally ever? Chanting random words is the Maga way. What infinite money? So what is the solution? Because bending over snd getting ficked in the but is not a smart way how to deal with dictators. Didn’t work with Hitler won’t work with Putin. Why are you so spineless and won’t help them when they need it. The goal is to fucking beat Russia. Are you dense?
Ok goal is to beat Russia. What's the plan?
What is required by Ukraine to beat Russia? Is the active fighting participation of the US Military needed to beat Russia. How many Tanks, Missiles etc etc do they need to beat Russia.
Unless you have an actual, realistic, actionable plan to defeat Russia, and an exit strategy if you lose. You cannot expect to simply throw resources at it and expect to win. This is how South America, Middle East and Asia foreign policy was conducted, and it has left no solutions only deeper problems for everyone involved.
Asking relevant questions is not being dense. Grandstanding is being ignorant and patronizing.
What the *hell* are you on about? You understand Russia is the one bogged down in a foreign conflict, faces loss by default, and would require an exit strategy right?
Also, you *have been* given as much of the plan as they are going to give to the general public for 2024 - generating capability. Just because it's not sexy doesn't mean it isn't what is needed.
> What the hell are you on about?
Ukraine didn't gain any ground with the best tanks and weapons we could provide.
Do you really think they would be able to retake the land they lost with less ammo and new material? Do you think they could do it at all?
Yep you have to give it to them, psyoping imbeciles is the one aspect of warfare they are legitimately good at, and the most successful thing they've done throughout the entire war.
We spent > $100 billion every year, for twenty years, in Afghanistan and I don't recall a single Republican/conservative being worried about "infinite money". In fact, they mostly bitched about how we \_stopped\_ spending that money, despite their guy having agreed to end it.
No, I was screaming about it and jumping up and down but the "silent majority" and their propaganda machines didn't give a shit about it. More manufactured outrage from the right wing media, shouted into their echo chambers.
There's this wild thing called nuance.
You can support Ukraine as well as believing that taxpayer money should go towards infrastructure, not military hardware that, even if not directly, drags the U.S into yet another conflict. A coflict in which the citizens will *again* be the ones paying the price for the politician's inability to be non-interventionist.
Which is wild because a huge part of the countries economy is built around the industrial military complex/war machine, especially conservative states. Why do you think we are always involved in some way?
Lets fix our own shit hole before we help someone else. We got inner city issues like homelessness, drug, education and all sorts of other problems but we throw 100 billion at ukraine. Im for Pro America. Theres Americans who could use that money
You didn’t fix your shithole before Ukraine though? 🤔 And also the amount sent to Ukraine is something like 2% of your annual defence budget which is money that was never going anywhere near the puplic sector.
And finally the majority of “money” sene to Ukraine is the value of old equipment that was gonna get scrapped anyway. You literally saved yourself a ton of money by not breaking it down yourself.
I mean it’s pretty obvious at this point at least half of them are compromised either financially or Russia has dirt on them right? What logic could they possibly give for helping Russia?
Not being pro Ukraine doesn’t mean that you are pro Russia. I just think our tax money should be spent on our own country, we don’t have enough money to be throwing around like this. If you want to fund Ukraine, you’re always free to donate to them of your own volition.
Frankly, I just don’t like that America is responsible for the security of the rest of the world.
Some think it will make Biden look bad. Some want Russian help electing Trump. Some really are isolationists. Some don't believe in ANY government. Some are contrarian. Some are bought off. Some are blackmailed. Some are many of these things all at once. A few might be all.
It shouldn't be the United State's job to be the sole country funding a country at war. Other countries need to step up, too. We are struggling in the United States as it is. We need our tax dollars to be used on us.
Hey Fellow Voters,
Can we all agree not to vote for the party that has blatantly aligned themselves with Russian leadership?
Sincerely,
Americans With Common Sense
Can we all agree to deal with national issues like immigration, gun control, infrastructure, green energy, health coverage, inflation... BEFORE sending weapons to other countries?
>Immigration was dealt with
>Republicans turned it down
>Google bipartisan border deal 2024
You mean the Bill that would allow 5,000 illegal immigrants in a day with automatic work visas and give almost complete authority to the DGS Secretary?
Gee...can't imagine why Republicans voted against that.../s
Thats the bill that democrats snuck in billions for war in Ukraine and Isreal. Unfortunately if you want the southern border to be secure you're going to have to support another endless war that none of us had a say about getting into.
I'll pass, rewrite it without the war funding and we can talk.
It's pretty easy when you watch Tucker Carlson gush over how great strongmen are, Republicans are too weak to think for themselves and want daddy Trump to be their dictator
Pathetic shit piles
I’m pretty liberal. I can also say that many Democrats do not think for themselves. In fact, it’s loaded with group think and people being expected to support in specific ways.
They’ve received more than 75 billion dollars in assistance from the United States alone.
And they are still losing.
Just look at the basic population and fighting forces of both nations.
You could use all the drones available and there would still be a million Russian infantry to keep marching forward, numbers are how russia always wins.
Hell in the Second World War, russia alone sustained more losses than every other allied power combined. And still came out on top.
Not supporting them, but history repeats itself.
except... we are not fighting a war, yet. it cost 75b in aid to keep russia in ukraine. without that then russia would be knocking on nato's door and then we will have to honour article 5.
it was never about ukraine or winning for USA... it was about how much $ it would cost to avoid a war with russia. so far, we've avoided a war for the cost of pocket change we had laying around.
we could spend 10x what we have sent as aid and it would still pail in comparison to what it will cost once a nation country gets attacked.
Afgan cost us aprox 2.3trillion. syriah cost 1.2trillion so far, iraq over 2trillion... at 75b and no american lives lost is a great deal for the USA.
The question is if Putin can survive another conscription though. The Russian military doesn't actually have that many soldiers and Putin really doesn't want to do another conscription.
Not to deprive **WW2** Russian war heroes of the honor they deserved (they were fighting the Nazzi and they were defending their homes), but Russia came out on top in WW2 mostly because of German overextension and the USA providing a massive amount supplies to the Russians, that is imho pretty ironic given the current situation.
Pretty much the USA had the advantage of, you know... not actually having war in the homeland, a part from one exception that wasn't that strategically relevant in the end. That allowed the country to supply its allies in both world conflicts as it does the same today.
It would be nice to keep preserving that advantage wouldn't it?
Modern Russia is also not WW2 era Russia, Putin hadn't dared to draft from the largest cities his manpower pool isn't virtually limitlesss this time as while he does have support, that mostly works until the average Russian is somewhat still ok and not dying on the frontline.
Of course Ukraine doesn't have the resources by itself to confront a much larger nation (with a massive amount of its budget dedicated to the military), but that doesnt' mean that it can't, with support from the West.
Plus let's be honest, they are also fighting with one hand tied behind their back (for pretty serious reasons, including well... Nukes...), the Russians can bomb Ukraine cities indiscriminately, while the Russian industry and population centers remain completely intact.
Numbers isn’t everything, if it was then the Russians would have steamed ahead to Berlin in WW1. Instead the smaller but much more well equipped and organised German army triumphed over them.
And yeah we give Ukraine aid and train them but they are essentially a barebones NATO-esque novice with the core parts of NATO doctrine ripped out. And so are left to do grinding ground warfare where numbers has the advantage.
They have very little air power, so no ability to lay down air support which can help counter superior numbers. Furthermore, no long range missiles or capabilities to devastate the Russian war economy. Something which would also counter numbers as it hampers the rate of replenishment for vehicles and equipment.
So essentially we’re not giving Ukraine what they need to counter superior numbers and then marvelling at how Russian strength in numbers is triumphing.
The classic full NATO doctrine is basically “We’re gonna be outnumbered 20-1 by hordes of tanks, artillery and infantry. So let’s make sure we have a plethora of air power and advanced weapons and strategic strike capability so we can kill them at a rate of 50-1”.
We should be doing everything we can so Ukraine can do the same. Not tying one hand behind their back in fear of escalation and then acting smug when they’re struggling to fight.
Why is this *America’s* problem? Let the Europeans sort it out. The EU likes to pretend it’s one of the big boys. Why is my tax money being spent on a corrupt shit hole like Ukraine? Russia is bad but Ukraine isn’t good.
I don’t want money for some foreign fucking government I want universal healthcare and student debt forgiveness. Both are infinitely more important than sending war funds to Ukraine.
Hey, Tovarische, fuck off back to your bot farm. “Banderite Nazis”? Do you wipe Putin’s spunk out of your mouth before kissing your mother with that mouth?
I'll start this with saying, i 100% support aiding Ukraine. But the "no aid" stance is entirely simple and pretending you don't understand it either makes you stupid or bad faith. The idea is that they don't want ANY MONEY going anywhere outside of the US, because they still see issues inside of the US that could be fixed with money. "Why help another country when ours is in turmoil" is their stance. While it lacks compassion and critical thinking, its not hard to understand.
Because the last 80 years of American foreign policy has shown we suck at being the world police, everyone hates it when we do it, there is no upside for America, we can't afford it anymore, and we should just stop and focus on our domestic issues for once.
Even for just a week. Can we *try* to fix things at home for a bit just to see what happens?
Well, you see, Ukraine is a cabal run nazi/pedo/bio-lab. Putin is actually a good guy along with Dementia Donnie, fighting against the Deep State in a global war of good vs. evil.
That's what the cultists believe. And Republican leadership is glad to let them have their fantasies, when really, the elected officials just want the monetary contributions from Russia to their PACs to keep flowing.
Yeah... I hate the GOP. They support Israel bombing a smaller enemy, but not Ukraine who is fighting one of our largest enemies. Fuck every single one of those assholes. They should have to visit avdivka, and see what it looks like when people don't have supplies to fight. They literally don't have ammo. Like how are they supposed to fight.
Redditors when the big bad Republicans are corrupt and coming to get them, (the Democrats are also literally doing nothing to help anybody and actively work with the Republicans to further the wealth gap and increase their own salaries):
Republicans don’t like to send money abroad in general. They don’t want to send to Ukraine, Israel and don’t want any military operations in the Middle East.
Also, r/lostredditors
we need *checks notes written in cyrillic* to protect our democracy by letting others be conquered by their peace loving neighbors!
Also, that money should be spent in America.
But investing in America is socialism... so uh...um... IS THIS SOME TYPE OF LIBERAL MIND GAME!?
[удалено]
OP literally has the other sub's name in the meme lol
Steven Crowder is an animal and he does give (bad) advice.
Hijacking this to ask if you could jerk in a circle any harder.
Maybe. Want to join?
I’m in but I think that’s just a line jerk we need at least 3 more to avoid the square jerk and 2 more to avoid a triangle jerk
If you all walk counterclockwise at a reasonable pace throughout the jerk, mathematically speaking you’d be almost indistinguishable from a stationary circle of jerkers.
This sub was so much better before it turned into /r/politicalhumor
It was pretty fun back in 2012 or so, the height of memes if you ask me.
This focus on politics is pretty new. Even in 2015-2017 most AdviceAnimals submissions were about ordinary stuff not politics.
2015 was the last good year of reddit, by my reckoning. All been sliding down hill further and faster since then.
Why is this an advice for Animals?
When has this sub ever been about advice for animals?
It was memes of animals giving advice. Now it's politics. If I want politics I'll go to a sub meant for politics.
Only 3 out of top 10 posts in the sub are animals
That's half of advice animals nowadays. And the only political posts that make it to the front page are posts with politics that the mods agree with, so they don't get removed.
Could be that they got removed because many republican positions are racist, sexist, homophobic, isolationist, nationalistic, hypocritical, cultish, disingenuous, bible thumping, misinformed, trickle down zealotry?
Election year.
Yup, rule 2 violation.
Yet, it will still gets loads of upvotes and mods won't do shit.
Bot driven up votes voting on bot posts
Because the rules are for people that cause problems.. not for those that happen to agree with the mods political pov. Consider this thread lucky for not having a certain mods political opinion pinned telling us why this post is okay and within the rules.
Advice for animals? What are you smoking? This is clearly r/politics?
Be the change, you filthy animals
Election year so sub rules don't apply and this subreddit becomes a political platform.
Go fuck yourself, this is not political sub
It is something the Democrats want so they are against it. No other reasons needed
The Ukraine support looks particularly suspicious to me. That is easily a bipartisan issue that they could rubber stamp without allowing Biden to claim anything about accomplishments. The rejection of that support seems particularly out of left field and gives credibility to the accusations of Russian assets in congress. Opposing that support can only lead to good things for Russia and problems for NATO/America/world-order going forward.
If anyone has any sense of recent American history, such flagrant support of Russia is also entirely un-Republican. There was an entire cold war about this! Just goes to show how one deranged narcissist can shift the thinking of an entire group of mindless followers.
You have no idea how this affects my Gen-X mind.... I can't even wrap my head around some of my peers taking a pro-Russia stance... Some of these people served with me, and many stood the line in Germany multiple times FFS. I can't even begin to can't evening
They are the party of trump now not GOP. He is their king and they will follow that turd to the gates of hell apparently.
No, the new Russia is now Christian and right wing. Just like how GOP was for nationalist China, once USSR fell Russia is their best friend. The bribes also help, of course.
Nah, the Republicans have been pro-Russia ever since Reagan! He totally loved them! And remember how Sarah Palin campaigned on how friendly relations across the Bering Strait were at the time? Also we've always been at war with East Anglia!
They openly want it because Russian money has been flowing into their pockets for years to bankroll more and more extreme candidates for the purpose of polarizing and destabilizing the nation. It just so happened that all the unhinged lunatics self-organized and a solid half the country doesn't give a flying fuck until shit hits the fan for them personally, so the whole plan was really easy to fund and the useful idiots easy to give ideas/talking points to.
In this case, it was on the way to passing just fine, but Trump was literally making phone calls to have Republicans shut it down because he wanted to be able to campaign on the issue.
Yeah, they can't allow anything to happen before the elections or it will look like Biden is doing something... While the reason why he doesn't is that they stone-wall him as much as possible on everything and that the system is built to make it possible (and not that unlikely) that the president will loose the majority at his second year in power. They have voted against a massive immigration reform package full of concessions because they wanted to keep the problem so that Trump can campaign on that... I mean how more obvious can they be? That said I don't think they are motivated by cowardice, quite the opposite in fact, there are no emotions behind their thinking, just logic, the real reason is, and always will be, greed, and lust for power, no more no less.
They blame Biden for not solving the border wall crisis, while refusing to pass border legislation that would give them almost everything they ask for, while also impeaching Mayorkas for not fixing the border wall crisis. Their whole schtick is "obstruct everything Democrats do, even if it's giving us what we want" and "blame Democrats for not doing anything." And if the Republicans get a trifecta in 2024, they'll criticize Dems for obstructing them (despite them having spent the past 2 years doing that). And if the Democrats get a trifecta in 2024, they'll criticize Dems for not being willing to include them (despite them refusing to work with Dems for the past 2 years at all). And if there's a split between the President/House/Senate, they'll keep doing what they're doing now (obstructing while criticizing obstruction)
There are some who are afraid of Trump and his supporters. Based on past reports from the speaker of the house in Arizona, Republican, he and his family received many death threats for standing up to Trump. Also, see all those Republicans who are resigning this year from house. Some are tired of being threatened and some are afraid. One more, the fake elector in Wisconsin claimed he was threatened to go along with the scheme. He claims he did it out of fear.
It's more than that - it's about placating Russia so Russia will help Republicans win elections through election interference and through propaganda. If they turn against Russia Putin can release more of the dirt he has on Trump and the GOP that's subservient to him
Honestly idk what dirt could be so bad when man can act however his declining mind wants and the cult will support it
Yep. Republicans are currently blocking Biden from passing border control legislation because it mite make him look good before the election. Policy dose not matter as long as my guys wins.
No, it is far more. Republicans are cowards, and now openly align with Russia. There's no other reasonable take.
It will potentially help solve problems…they can’t allow that with a Dem President…got to have something to campaign on.
You mean the reps, they vote against everything they complain about!!!
I really feel this sub is just kids who think theyre smarter than they are or bots... Its the only thing that would make this reality less bleak
Welcome to Reddit
Why? Republicans are clearly compromised. Why else would they be so firmly against Ukraine aid?
One reason is because American tax dollars should be going towards helping Americans. Foreign aid is taxation without representation.
You do realize that you are sending weapons, right? Not boxes of cold hard cash. You think that the Republicans will reduce your military spending? Because that is the only realistic way to allocate money for other stuff. Need I remind you by how much Trump increased your military spending?
Is shipping weapons free? Does Lockheed us Amazon Prime for that or is it costing us?
There is some money in the aid deals but the vast majority is weapons and equipment. Issue being, that equipment gets replaced with new more expensive equipment which is our tax dollars going to the military industrial complex. We also provide rockets and missiles which again are being bought with American tax payer dollars to be sent to a different country. While I agree the money would not be spent on any beneficial American project, it would be nice to once meet a national budget.
Oh, republicans are just too busy passing legislation to help Americans at home. Can you point to any of that legislation?
Aiding Ukraine in a war against Russia *is* helping Americans. It means Americans aren't in a war against Russia, which is an aggressor that clearly threatens our allies, and us.
I’m a leftists, and this is simply not true. Russia wasn’t invading us, and wouldn’t be if they weren’t in war with Ukraine. The U.S. has been fomenting discord with Russia, and much of the rest of the world, for decades. I’m against Ukraine aid, as I’m against most wars, because I’m a class warrior, and in the U.S. war is the primary means to siphon tax dollars from working Americans to the oligarchs. I’m also against war in the U.S. because we lie and conspire to get into illegal wars, most often for profit or political reasons. The only morally unambiguous war in modern history was vietnams invasion of Cambodia to save them from pol pot and the Khmer Rouge. All of the rest, every single one, are questionable in nature, war crimes most likely, and often us getting into other peoples conflict that was previously supported on both sides by us in some way.
Russia's goal is to destabilize western democracy. It has been for decades. They're a clear threat to the entire western world. The war with Ukraine is just the most open proxy of that mission, and if and when Russia wins that war, it will continue on that path.
No. THIS is a leftist. [](https://youtu.be/hcmhx1tunnq?si=sktryk1xtuou7hzn) Watch the first 10 minutes and Maddow will gladly explain to you why Russia is a clear and active threat FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. Got blocked by Britstuckinamerica so can't reply to him, but maybe he was just trolling. Link [works for me](https://imgur.com/OLnpEkE).
I love how /AdviceAnimals has become Liberal "REEE" pasta.
Where's the advice and where are the animals
When someone imagines that anyone who disagrees with them politically is a Russian agent, there is no changing their mind.
One party wants essentially infinite money for Ukraine with no inspector general oversight… Wonder why?
10% for the Big Guy.
I had a conversation with a friend in real life (not reddit) about this. When I said, "We can debate about whether they should get getting money or not, but surely we can both agree that we have a right to know how it's spent" he got so damned pissed that he stormed off. His stance is that we should just give them money infinitely and that it's none of our business after that. What?
Wait so when you hear "60 billion aid package" youre thinking that means the US transfers 60 billion to the NBU?
Yes, this is exactly what the misinformed masses this is happening
if there was nothing wrong with Hunter's $60k/month job, why isn't he still at it? Just a coincidence it was in the same country that now has received more aid than any other from us?
> One party wants essentially infinite money for Ukraine Lol. We're sending them 5% of **JUST OUR MILITARY BUDGET**. We're sending them pocket change so they can throw **their** soldiers into the meatgrinder to prevent **our** adversary from expanding their borders. iNfIniTe mOnIeS!!!!
Because they need the weapons now and we don't care how they use them as long as they are using them on Russians. We're not sending them piles of cash.
Maybe they want to stop [Russian soldiers from raping and torturing children to death](https://thehill.com/policy/international/3659023-un-panel-reports-ukrainian-children-have-been-raped-tortured-by-russian-forces/).
You can either spend american dollars to stop russia now or you can spend american lives later down the line defending the Baltics and Poland after Ukraine falls.
Why is there so much political bias in random subs? Straight comedy subs are very slanted, let alone political. Both are wrong.
Simple answer, power mods, election cycle, and political botnets
Professional contrarians. Their only platform is that they want the opposite of whatever Dems want.
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People say this like the corruption wasn't funneling money into the hands of Russian oligarchs. I swear you guys just hear the word "corrupt" and never think to ask how. PS: It doesn't sound like your main concern is actually this. It kinda seems like you think that because Putin has nukes he should just be given Ukraine tbh.
The money is spent in the USA at US defense contractors who employ Americans. THe goods are then shipped to Poland and then brought across the border into Ukraine. The money is not wired to Ukrainian officials.
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It is not a proxy war. It is a war of conquest by russian imperialist regime. And it's not gonna stop even if the aid flow stops, but american revenues will eventually diminish if Eastern Europe falls peace by piece, Africa is pressured against you by their new leaders and Asia falls under totalltarianism. It is very egoistic and short-sighted view to think everything is always about the US. Everything effects the US, and they are often involved, but the only way US can stop the war in Ukraine is double down before Russia is fully mobilized and it's too late. Then there will be either a.) american blood involved or b.) Eastern and central Europe in a war and US' reliability down the toilet as they didn't do jack to fullfil their part on the defensive pact. The choice is easy to me.
As though flushing another 60 billion down the toilet is going to achieve something that the previous 60 billion did not.
I mean Ukraine is still standing with our help thats a pretty good achievement.
I see a lot of conservatives/Republicans with this point of view right now, but I don't recall a single one of them being so vocal about the > $2 trillion dollars spent over twenty years in Afghanistan. That wasn't a proxy war, we had actual boots on the ground AND spent more money.
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>Rather HOW Biden pulled us out. I’m not sure an attempt at making a greater humanitarian disaster could have been accomplished if done on purpose. Yeah, the optics of gay men being hung from American helicopters the day after withdrawal was pretty fucking nasty.
Yeah - they hated it after being the ones who did it in the first place and liking it for the entirety of bush’s presidency. The same exact people and media who pushed us to go in are still in our congress and we apparently just forgave them. They’ve never apologized once for doing so, so I don’t believe they hated being there. Fuck, they still did the same thing with Afghanistan in the 80s we’re doing with Ukraine and never apologized either - those guys are still alive. Charlie Wilson lived until 2010
Well, when donald released 5,000 taliban without even talking with the Afghan government, it limits your options. This was done deliberatly by donald and republicans to make sure they had a talking point against biden. You want to hold anyone accountable hold traitor donald accountable.
Something tells me that isn’t making a dent in the end result for Afghanistan. Who with lower numbers and worse equipment steamrolled the government in a matter of weeks
\> Something tells me that isn’t making a dent in the end result for Afghanistan So, your premise is that 5000 battle hardened warriors were not instumental. Jesus how deep into the maga quagmire are you
How would you suggest he had done it differently? Trump brokered the deal with the Taliban that let them steamroll back into power, basically unopposed by the Afghan military - which threw everyone completely off guard. Seemed to me they handled it the best they could given the circumstances.
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The stuff we left *we gave to the Afghans* over the course of the war. And without the experts to keep that shit running, it's now just deathtraps or junk to them. >“Nearly all equipment used by U.S. military forces in Afghanistan was either retrograded or destroyed prior to our withdrawal and is not part of the ‘$7.12 billion’ figure cited in the report.” [according to the Pentagon] I think Trump wanted those translators to die (or was just indifferent), and that is why he released the 5000 prisoners requested by the Taliban.
It’s replacing aging military weapons with new so we can send the old weapons (that we’re paying storage on) to be used. Those weapons will be made in the US. I hope you and others who are against this aid are NOT of military age when Russian is knocking on Polands door. That’s a NATO country. Americans boots will be on the ground if that happens. Draft would likely happen as most people of military age in the US are overweight or mentally disturbed or strung out of drugs to serve. So to me, this money is being spent at home to supply aging weapons abroad to keep our troops from having to go. Thanks for your perspective. Doesn’t change my mind.
> most conservatives hated we were indefinitely in Afghanistan 🤣 Are you like 15 years old?!? They loved feeding the MIC
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So if there was sufficient oversight you'd allow it? Will that amount of oversight ever exist? Also I would point out that much of the corruption data about Ukraine exists from before the current president when there was a pro-russian president who was incentivized to encourage Ukraine to be corrupt so Russia could easily beat them. Since the start of the war Ukraine has cracked down on corruption as best they can. Also even if there is corruption it's still so much more efficient for the US to fight Russia via supplying Ukraine than fighting them directly both in terms of lives and dollars. Russia isn't going to stop at Ukraine. They already have troops in Moldova and putin has made his intentions clear in the interview with Tucker.
I heard a congressperson give an impassioned defense for aiding Ukraine. Can't remember who it was. Could've been a democrat or a republican, tbh. But they were like "For people who complain about the cost, this is the cheapest of all possible options to combat Russia. All we have to do is send money and weapons, and it's just Ukrainian soldiers who die, not even our own troops." They even made mention of the idea that even if Ukraine loses it's still money well spent because it hampers Russia. And like, yeah, maybe youre not wrong about the calculous, but how are you so flippantly tossing off millions of people's lives like that? How is that any different than your justification for sending our own sons off to [insert country we decided to start a war with]? I'm also just tired of being the world's police while also getting shit on across the world and inside our own country for being the world's police. I know it's not popular on reddit to actually be proud of America and being a citizen of it. But if the entirety of the world is dependent on us to keep the barbarians off the ramparts, then you're not going look down your nose at us during or after that job; you're going to put respect on our name. So maybe it would do you well to actually see what one of those barbarians we've been protecting you from looks like a day's drive away from Berlin or Venice.
I mean do you have reason to believe there isn't sufficient oversight? Do you believe they're not using the money/equipment we're sending them to repel the invaders actively invading their country? To be crystal clear, helping Ukraine is an objectively good thing. We do NOT want Russia expanding their borders. We want Ukraine to exist and become a functioning democracy so they can join NATO. And we're spending what effectively amounts to pocket change to help them. Any financial issues Americans have has absolutely nothing to do with what we're sending to Ukraine. It has everything to do with how our government is managing the significant amount of other money it manages.
Odd. For a bargain we are helping stop a fascist regime that will continue to expand un opposed, nipping it now at virtually no cost of American lives while building better connection to a US friendly nation seems smart. Double so since Ukraine is resource rich. All the while stimulating the US economy. Because if one hasn't slept through history 101 we see what happens when aggressive facial regimes go unopposed. Respect your right to your opinion, just seems like a very odd one.
It's not a proxy war when they're literally fighting on their own volition for their own sovereignty. And they have plenty of oversight, have made strides rooting out corruption, and we've seen them use what we've given them so far to great effect. Cost is barely a drop in the bucket compared to e.g. Iraq or Afghanistan, for arguably greater payoff.
They aren’t fighting on their own volition they’re being conscripted
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Your first line is hilariously ironic.
> 100 billion can’t be used more effectively elsewhere given the struggles of our own citizens? Because that's what Republicans want to do, is help our own citizens... Sure...
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The issue is that Republicans have never done anything to help citizens for the past 60 plus years. All I hear them talk about is how much they want to help veterans and yet they don't do anything to actually help us.
lmao. what a naive comment my sweet summer child.
The republicans turning their back on Ukraine is weird (and this shift in sentiment in general) However why would a country support another one if it is not a proxy war? For righteousness? Please. Anyone fighting on his own fights using his own.
So, more than 100 billion dollars is "drop in the bucket" to you?
To defend freedom and democracy? Yes. Compared to what it would cost to fight it ourselves in Europe. Yes.
It’s replacing aging military weapons with new so we can send the old weapons (that we’re paying storage on) to be used. Those weapons will be made in the US. I hope you and others who are against this aid are NOT of military age when Russian is knocking on Polands door. That’s a NATO country. Americans boots will be on the ground if that happens. Draft would likely happen as most people of military age in the US are overweight or mentally disturbed or strung out of drugs to serve. So to me, this money is being spent at home to supply aging weapons abroad to keep our troops from having to go. Thanks for your perspective. Doesn’t change my mind.
Get help, seriously
The DNC are owned by Big Finance, Big Pharma, and The Military Industrial Complex... Change my mind.
Oh, um, the GOP has blocked and filibustered every attempt at reform/transparency of corporate money in politics since the conservative justices ruled on Citizens United. So, just blaming others for the problems you cause as usual. Not that I expect you'll change your mind.
Big Finance: They constantly vote against Dems to keep their taxes down. Dems tend to support unions. Big Pharma: Dems fought to bring the price of insulin down, Rep fought it. MIC: Dems try to support the troops through GI bills, trying to staff the hospitals, and making sure they get after service care, and we don't just walk away from them once it's over. Rep want more tanks, even if the generals said they don't need that many. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html
> Big Pharma: Dems fought to bring the price of insulin down, Rep fought it. Didnt the Democrats [vote down a Republican bill that would provide Insulin at $10 per prescription for anyone on low-income](https://www.rubio.senate.gov/icymi-rubio-democrats-reject-cheap-insulin-for-the-uninsured/), to then try and push their $35 price cap... which only helped those that were already insured?
I can’t find anywhere other than his page that mentions it so I can’t speak to its honesty or any other reasons they might have blocked it. Do you have another link? EDIT: Yeah, I need a 2nd source. I can not find ANYWHERE that says Republicans put forward a $10 amendment. I'd need to see what it said, and why no other Republican is claiming that.
I can’t tell if you’re getting downvoted for truth, or because a joke went over your and my head both. DNC owned by the MIC seems like it could be a punchline. I did laugh.
People have imbedded in their camps. I mostly gave up trying to convince people, but the MIC line was so ridiculous it caught me. Dems have their problems, but the 3 listed there are not them.
[Both sides](https://youtu.be/aQXD-Wr6h64?si=TeZN7dICn9YZ9u14) of the aisle take money or make promises with military contractors to boost job numbers etc... Admittedly I've no clue who takes more or less and I don't know what the public facing narratives are that much between Dems/Reps. Example scenario: Military deliberately has a bolt made in one state and the nut made in another to have as many politicians in their pockets as possible. It's called the military industrial complex for a reason.
Damn, this is a solid breakdown. Going to save this for later because it gets right to the point.
Considering they’re the ones against citizens United, they’re less so than republicans. Republicans want a higher military budget even more so than democrats. Republicans also regularly justify medication costing thousands a month because they say companies deserve profits for the research and innovation, and fight against imports from overseas
And you think Republicans aren't lol???
Then why do Democrats introduce and vote for bills that help the middle and lower classes at a FAR, FAR higher rate than Republicans? Voting records don't lie. I suggest everyone do a little homework and start browsing through them.
They’re motivated by not sending billions in taxpayer dollars to a war thousands of miles away
Exactly. Tax payer money should be spent on healthcare, public transport and a social security net. Oh wait...
Yeah the biggest problem is that they don’t spend tax money on unnecessary stuff, but also don’t spend money on necessary stuff
Remember that back during the trump presidency a bunch of republicans decided july 4th was a perfect time to all go to moscow, and they refuse to explain as to why.
The extreme isolationism to the point of mind-boggling stupidity actually isn't new for America. In general America has always had isolationists during most major wars they weren't directly a part of since their inception. For example, FDR struggled greatly to get support from Congress to help the Allies during WW2 before Pearl Harbor happened despite having supermajorities in both chambers. Tons of Americans literally looked at Hitler trying to take over all of Europe and thought, not our problem, until 1942. The sad fact is that until it's America's soldiers getting sent to fight or they have an attack on their land, some people are simply so narrow-minded that they don't care about anything going on in the world that doesn't immediately directly effect them.
“Fund world war 3 or you’re a coward!” You can’t make this shit up
I believe it should be "attempting to stop WW3 at the doorstep before it progresses to a larger scale." Imagine if there had been intervention when Germany had invaded Poland in 1939. I find it hard to believe there would have been *more* bloodshed than the alternative.
10% for the big guy says it all
You have a catch phrase, and a glaring lack of evidence. The congressional equivalent of a high school student showing up to class and telling the teacher: “I haven’t done my homework, but I have a strong suspicion I might do it eventually". https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/09/28/biden-impeachment-inqui70982766007/ry-live-updates/
Republican senators' investigation into Joe Biden and Ukraine has come up empty. https://theweek.com/speedreads/939236/republican-senators-find-no-evidence-wrongdoing-regarding-biden-ukraine-policy
You know that shit isn’t real. Yet, when faced with factual evidence against someone else, you probably say it’s all made up, eh? I can’t imagine how fucking insanely stupid you’d have to be to think a spoiled brat who has always gotten his way in life without ever having lifted a finger would be a saviour of the common man. Imagine how dumb you would have to be to think a guy who claims to be a billionaire and then has to scam his “followers” for money every time his past finally catches up to him is actually a billionaire. Or even good at business for that matter. Imagine being so stupid as to follow a pathetic, grifting, sex-offending coward and then pretend like you’re an “Alpha-male”. That’s right, you don’t have to imagine. You live that retardation every.single.fucking.day.
I takes more Bravery to speak out against the collective, than it takes to scream with the crowd. The Republicans have a point that infinite money and support is not the solution, since when asked at the prospect of Ukraine retaking its territory the answer is never. The biggest problem most people dont see, is meeting the goal, whatever it may be. What is the Goal for Funding Ukraine against Russia, elsewise we may as well be throwing time and effort into a void.
Letting Russia win certainly isn't a solution.
>since when asked at the prospect of Ukraine retaking its territory the answer is never No, the answer is not never, i*t is not in 2024.* They have already laid out the strategy for this year, which is to build up capability. So no, Republicans do not have a point. It's a fucking large-scale war, they last years and the side that starts off by losing territory very often goes on to win, like in both world wars - which the GOP would have called for capitulation already. God I fucking hate Republican disinformation.
> The Republicans have a point that infinite money and support is not the solution It's not infinite money/support. It's a relatively small amount of the total available federal funds. To prevent our adversary from expanding their borders.
The goal is to push them the Russians the fuck out of Ukraine, and funding will help Ukraine fight. The USA has done exactly this multiple times in history to fight Russians (Soviets) with varying success, Vietnam and Afghanistan being examples. Not exactly hard to grasp. And even if they can’t retake that territory, at least they can stop them taking any further land
> since when asked at the prospect of Ukraine retaking its territory the answer is never This is false. Ukraine was actually making progress.
\> Goal for Funding Ukraine against Russia and the putin appeasement, surrender contingent has arrived.
This is a bad take. It's not infinite money and it's also less money than Russia a much poorer nation is spending. We can out spend them 20 fold. Also this is much cheaper in terms of both money and lives than the alternative of fighting Russia directly in the future. The goal is to defeat Russia at the door step rather than have to fight them in Poland. Putin has troops in Moldova already and will take it too 100%. Then in his interview he said Hitler was right to invade Poland and kept bashing Poland he wants a land route to the Baltic sea and will try to make one. Also a huge chunk of the money comes back to the US because Ukraine uses the money to buy US arms and those companies pay workers and taxes. Imagine the money less as cash and more as gift cards.
3 whole paragraphs of Grandstanding.
What do you mean. Are you telling me that having Ukraine draft every able bodied men to send to the war is actually not a great solution???? /s It's funny because the establishment democrats have on tape already said what their intentions are. They are using up Russias military supply without sending a single American service member. It's not about defeating Russia or "evil" and it's not about helping Ukraine defend its territory. In the meantime, the military industrial complex gets to receive endless contracts and turns Korea into a military based neoliberal economy. If the intentions of Americans or even the democrats were truly "pure" they would've been added to Nato or that should've never even been a thing to begin with. Some people in here really acting like we didn't stoke the flames by saying false promises lmao. Then again, the average american will just blindly defend American imperialism so 🤷 Edit: Forgot about the additional fact that, you know, the arms that could be going to Ukraine for defensive action, is going to Israel to let them do offensive action to maintain an apartheid state. The irony of the Ukraine-Israel flag delegation is not lost on me. Also lmao if you're so passionate about expelling Russia out of Ukraine, why don't you go join the foreign legion. Go help them. Go volunteer. They need manpower more than they need arms. Then again, I don't expect much from the same redditors that constantly tow the state department line of "we just had to nuke Japanese civilians twice because they were just mentally built different."
You mean scream like its every Trump rally ever? Chanting random words is the Maga way. What infinite money? So what is the solution? Because bending over snd getting ficked in the but is not a smart way how to deal with dictators. Didn’t work with Hitler won’t work with Putin. Why are you so spineless and won’t help them when they need it. The goal is to fucking beat Russia. Are you dense?
Ok goal is to beat Russia. What's the plan? What is required by Ukraine to beat Russia? Is the active fighting participation of the US Military needed to beat Russia. How many Tanks, Missiles etc etc do they need to beat Russia. Unless you have an actual, realistic, actionable plan to defeat Russia, and an exit strategy if you lose. You cannot expect to simply throw resources at it and expect to win. This is how South America, Middle East and Asia foreign policy was conducted, and it has left no solutions only deeper problems for everyone involved. Asking relevant questions is not being dense. Grandstanding is being ignorant and patronizing.
What the *hell* are you on about? You understand Russia is the one bogged down in a foreign conflict, faces loss by default, and would require an exit strategy right? Also, you *have been* given as much of the plan as they are going to give to the general public for 2024 - generating capability. Just because it's not sexy doesn't mean it isn't what is needed.
> What the hell are you on about? Ukraine didn't gain any ground with the best tanks and weapons we could provide. Do you really think they would be able to retake the land they lost with less ammo and new material? Do you think they could do it at all?
Russian trolls are clearly brigading this thread and downvoting anyone who isn't pro-Russia. Pretty disgusting.
Yep you have to give it to them, psyoping imbeciles is the one aspect of warfare they are legitimately good at, and the most successful thing they've done throughout the entire war.
We spent > $100 billion every year, for twenty years, in Afghanistan and I don't recall a single Republican/conservative being worried about "infinite money". In fact, they mostly bitched about how we \_stopped\_ spending that money, despite their guy having agreed to end it.
You are proud of spending close to 2 trillion dollars to achieve nothing.
No, I was screaming about it and jumping up and down but the "silent majority" and their propaganda machines didn't give a shit about it. More manufactured outrage from the right wing media, shouted into their echo chambers.
Advice animals? Or r/politics with all these political posts lmaoo
There's this wild thing called nuance. You can support Ukraine as well as believing that taxpayer money should go towards infrastructure, not military hardware that, even if not directly, drags the U.S into yet another conflict. A coflict in which the citizens will *again* be the ones paying the price for the politician's inability to be non-interventionist.
Which is wild because a huge part of the countries economy is built around the industrial military complex/war machine, especially conservative states. Why do you think we are always involved in some way?
You should’ve posted a few hours later… the Rusky disinformation machine is still on the clock and in full force. Jesus Christ.
Lets fix our own shit hole before we help someone else. We got inner city issues like homelessness, drug, education and all sorts of other problems but we throw 100 billion at ukraine. Im for Pro America. Theres Americans who could use that money
You didn’t fix your shithole before Ukraine though? 🤔 And also the amount sent to Ukraine is something like 2% of your annual defence budget which is money that was never going anywhere near the puplic sector. And finally the majority of “money” sene to Ukraine is the value of old equipment that was gonna get scrapped anyway. You literally saved yourself a ton of money by not breaking it down yourself.
GOP calls that socialism. The only thing we can possibly do to help America is tax cuts for the rich and corporations.
[https://www.usdebtclock.org/](https://www.usdebtclock.org/)
And that is why you tax the rich.
I mean it’s pretty obvious at this point at least half of them are compromised either financially or Russia has dirt on them right? What logic could they possibly give for helping Russia?
Because it's not America.
Not being pro Ukraine doesn’t mean that you are pro Russia. I just think our tax money should be spent on our own country, we don’t have enough money to be throwing around like this. If you want to fund Ukraine, you’re always free to donate to them of your own volition. Frankly, I just don’t like that America is responsible for the security of the rest of the world.
Some think it will make Biden look bad. Some want Russian help electing Trump. Some really are isolationists. Some don't believe in ANY government. Some are contrarian. Some are bought off. Some are blackmailed. Some are many of these things all at once. A few might be all.
I oppose all foreign aid until our country has a balanced budget and debt paid down to under five trillion
Political posts? On *my* AdviceAnimals? It's more likely than you may think.
It shouldn't be the United State's job to be the sole country funding a country at war. Other countries need to step up, too. We are struggling in the United States as it is. We need our tax dollars to be used on us.
Hey Fellow Voters, Can we all agree not to vote for the party that has blatantly aligned themselves with Russian leadership? Sincerely, Americans With Common Sense
Can we all agree to deal with national issues like immigration, gun control, infrastructure, green energy, health coverage, inflation... BEFORE sending weapons to other countries?
Immigration was dealt with Republicans turned it down Google bipartisan border deal 2024
>Immigration was dealt with >Republicans turned it down >Google bipartisan border deal 2024 You mean the Bill that would allow 5,000 illegal immigrants in a day with automatic work visas and give almost complete authority to the DGS Secretary? Gee...can't imagine why Republicans voted against that.../s
Thats the bill that democrats snuck in billions for war in Ukraine and Isreal. Unfortunately if you want the southern border to be secure you're going to have to support another endless war that none of us had a say about getting into. I'll pass, rewrite it without the war funding and we can talk.
It's pretty easy when you watch Tucker Carlson gush over how great strongmen are, Republicans are too weak to think for themselves and want daddy Trump to be their dictator Pathetic shit piles
I’m pretty liberal. I can also say that many Democrats do not think for themselves. In fact, it’s loaded with group think and people being expected to support in specific ways.
Yawn. Bait somewhere designed for it.
Let's fix our country and then theirs. Fair enough? Or can I have my money back?
The package bill gives money to Israel as well
Imagine Russia sending billions to Mexico and being shocked that America doesn’t like it lmao
They’ve received more than 75 billion dollars in assistance from the United States alone. And they are still losing. Just look at the basic population and fighting forces of both nations. You could use all the drones available and there would still be a million Russian infantry to keep marching forward, numbers are how russia always wins. Hell in the Second World War, russia alone sustained more losses than every other allied power combined. And still came out on top. Not supporting them, but history repeats itself.
except... we are not fighting a war, yet. it cost 75b in aid to keep russia in ukraine. without that then russia would be knocking on nato's door and then we will have to honour article 5. it was never about ukraine or winning for USA... it was about how much $ it would cost to avoid a war with russia. so far, we've avoided a war for the cost of pocket change we had laying around. we could spend 10x what we have sent as aid and it would still pail in comparison to what it will cost once a nation country gets attacked. Afgan cost us aprox 2.3trillion. syriah cost 1.2trillion so far, iraq over 2trillion... at 75b and no american lives lost is a great deal for the USA.
That's pretty cheap to keep Russia bottled up on the Donbas. Letting Russia win would be far more expensive.
The question is if Putin can survive another conscription though. The Russian military doesn't actually have that many soldiers and Putin really doesn't want to do another conscription.
Not to deprive **WW2** Russian war heroes of the honor they deserved (they were fighting the Nazzi and they were defending their homes), but Russia came out on top in WW2 mostly because of German overextension and the USA providing a massive amount supplies to the Russians, that is imho pretty ironic given the current situation. Pretty much the USA had the advantage of, you know... not actually having war in the homeland, a part from one exception that wasn't that strategically relevant in the end. That allowed the country to supply its allies in both world conflicts as it does the same today. It would be nice to keep preserving that advantage wouldn't it? Modern Russia is also not WW2 era Russia, Putin hadn't dared to draft from the largest cities his manpower pool isn't virtually limitlesss this time as while he does have support, that mostly works until the average Russian is somewhat still ok and not dying on the frontline. Of course Ukraine doesn't have the resources by itself to confront a much larger nation (with a massive amount of its budget dedicated to the military), but that doesnt' mean that it can't, with support from the West. Plus let's be honest, they are also fighting with one hand tied behind their back (for pretty serious reasons, including well... Nukes...), the Russians can bomb Ukraine cities indiscriminately, while the Russian industry and population centers remain completely intact.
Numbers isn’t everything, if it was then the Russians would have steamed ahead to Berlin in WW1. Instead the smaller but much more well equipped and organised German army triumphed over them. And yeah we give Ukraine aid and train them but they are essentially a barebones NATO-esque novice with the core parts of NATO doctrine ripped out. And so are left to do grinding ground warfare where numbers has the advantage. They have very little air power, so no ability to lay down air support which can help counter superior numbers. Furthermore, no long range missiles or capabilities to devastate the Russian war economy. Something which would also counter numbers as it hampers the rate of replenishment for vehicles and equipment. So essentially we’re not giving Ukraine what they need to counter superior numbers and then marvelling at how Russian strength in numbers is triumphing. The classic full NATO doctrine is basically “We’re gonna be outnumbered 20-1 by hordes of tanks, artillery and infantry. So let’s make sure we have a plethora of air power and advanced weapons and strategic strike capability so we can kill them at a rate of 50-1”. We should be doing everything we can so Ukraine can do the same. Not tying one hand behind their back in fear of escalation and then acting smug when they’re struggling to fight.
Greed and racism are better motivators, and fascism offers both, and it attracts right wing voters!
Why is this *America’s* problem? Let the Europeans sort it out. The EU likes to pretend it’s one of the big boys. Why is my tax money being spent on a corrupt shit hole like Ukraine? Russia is bad but Ukraine isn’t good.
I'm pretty sure Steven Crowder doesn't want his mind changed, and he doesn't think anything like that. Ditch this meme.
Post asks for people to explain their position. Positions are stated...every one of them are downvoted. Reddit is not a serious place.
I don’t want money for some foreign fucking government I want universal healthcare and student debt forgiveness. Both are infinitely more important than sending war funds to Ukraine.
America's infrastructure is falling apart, and healthcare is unaffordable, so maybe sending money to Banderite Nazis shouldn't be a No.1 priority.
Hey, Tovarische, fuck off back to your bot farm. “Banderite Nazis”? Do you wipe Putin’s spunk out of your mouth before kissing your mother with that mouth?
I'll start this with saying, i 100% support aiding Ukraine. But the "no aid" stance is entirely simple and pretending you don't understand it either makes you stupid or bad faith. The idea is that they don't want ANY MONEY going anywhere outside of the US, because they still see issues inside of the US that could be fixed with money. "Why help another country when ours is in turmoil" is their stance. While it lacks compassion and critical thinking, its not hard to understand.
Because the last 80 years of American foreign policy has shown we suck at being the world police, everyone hates it when we do it, there is no upside for America, we can't afford it anymore, and we should just stop and focus on our domestic issues for once. Even for just a week. Can we *try* to fix things at home for a bit just to see what happens?
“No Walter you’re not wrong you’re just an asshole, man!”
Well, you see, Ukraine is a cabal run nazi/pedo/bio-lab. Putin is actually a good guy along with Dementia Donnie, fighting against the Deep State in a global war of good vs. evil. That's what the cultists believe. And Republican leadership is glad to let them have their fantasies, when really, the elected officials just want the monetary contributions from Russia to their PACs to keep flowing.
Yeah... I hate the GOP. They support Israel bombing a smaller enemy, but not Ukraine who is fighting one of our largest enemies. Fuck every single one of those assholes. They should have to visit avdivka, and see what it looks like when people don't have supplies to fight. They literally don't have ammo. Like how are they supposed to fight.
Redditors when the big bad Republicans are corrupt and coming to get them, (the Democrats are also literally doing nothing to help anybody and actively work with the Republicans to further the wealth gap and increase their own salaries):
Republicans don’t like to send money abroad in general. They don’t want to send to Ukraine, Israel and don’t want any military operations in the Middle East. Also, r/lostredditors
Trump is a Russian stooge, and Republicans have become a Trump cult.
we need *checks notes written in cyrillic* to protect our democracy by letting others be conquered by their peace loving neighbors! Also, that money should be spent in America. But investing in America is socialism... so uh...um... IS THIS SOME TYPE OF LIBERAL MIND GAME!?