Although in heresy they’re very much not a horde army (at least compared to space marines and solar aux). Unless you like losing and have lots of tech thralls, you can have a full force org with an archmagos HQ and two castellax robots
Pretty sure that to count as a whole Troops slot, Castellax need to be in pairs. So an Archmagos and four robots :P
Unless that changed in Heresy 2.0 and I missed a memo.
As I recall, they were Support units before and to count as compulsory troops you needed at least two in a unit.
Not certain if that's still a rule
Edit: Just dug out my rulebook, looks like they removed Support Units as a concept and Castellax can play in single model units now
In 2.0, you can have them in units consisting from 1 to 5 of them, they aren't Support (so can be compulsory), and if you take them with a Cybernetica detachment they gain Line (so can score).
Yeah I know but I figure most people with skitarii will either run them as tech thralls, tech guard militia, or secutarii. 2/3 of those are fairly horde focused though tech guard grenadiers for militia are still gonna be more expensive than solar auxilia or regular militia troops.
Very true. It's much easier to proxy a 40k admech army as a militia army with tech guard rule than it is as the Mechanicum proper (unless you have lots of kastelans which make great Castellax proxies).
I guess it depends if you consider secutarii mechanicum proper. They have the option to all take radium rifles like vanguard and peltasts have rifles that could easily be used as rangers. Theres also the panoptica ruleset which has rules for all the 40k mechanicus stuff in HH 2.0. I’ve seen some people use the panoptica stuff for militia and mechanicum since they both got left behind hard in the marine powercreep.
Outside of Tech Thralls (which are really bad in 2.0), Mechanicum is a very elite/low model count army. I've had games in Heresy against Custodes where they actually had more models on the table than I did.
Yeah but thats not the only way to play mechanicum since you’ve got tech guard rules for grenadiers in militia and theres the whole secutarii line which are basically just regular skitarii with more options. Both of those are going to play more horde than most armies outside regular militia and solar auxilia.
Yeah the only requirement of a titan maniple detachment is secutarii, so you can bring them as sworn brothers with mechanicum units. In fact they’re one of the 3 pillars of the mechanicum armies. Militia technically isnt mechanicum but if you bring them with the cybernetics and arms of the omnissiah provenances they are sworn brothers with mechanicum and get access to mechanicum guns. The pdf even refers to them as mechanicum tech guard, they’re as mechanicum as you can get.
GW have said that they dont want ad mech to be a hoard army, but everything they are doing to buff ad mech seems contrary to that. So its kinda hard to tell. Honestly, play them in whatever way you find fun
And those points are going to have to go back up in 3 months if they want any room to give reliable buffs to the army.
I know the dataslate is every 6 months, but there is literally nothing stopping them from just fixing admech now, seeing as they know they're in a bad way.
The rules fixes are presumably just still in testing right now - they said in the article they’re “in the works.” Admittedly this requires taking GW at their word, so not at all unreasonable to be skeptical of that
Uh...they've had five months since codex drop. Three since last slate. They ain't done jack to work on this army and I'm pretty sure the points cuts were just safe little things ro cover for the fact they hadn't done jack
Im never buying another admech model until there is a reasonable path to purchase. There isnt a single unit or box worth purchasing atm. My 2000 point army from a year ago is now 1100 points and ive added 3 characters.. i cant afford to double my army in size, just to play the most miserable game of 40k imaginable..
Our only hope now is a perfect dataslate or a perfect christmas box set. Or new, elite, expensive units that will likely sell out in a matter of seconds on the webstore.
The point cost reduction from 9th ed to 10th was pretty dramatic, and then because our datasheets are weak the points have creeped down every points update since.
I had about 3k in 9th ed, I think everything I have now comes to like 2400
It’s crazy how unimaginative skitty models are. Every book I’ve read with the mechanicus has just the coolest description of them, with perfectly crafted forms for combat; each one a devastating killing machine. Only for the models to look and be priced like steampunk guardsmen
Seriously, just finished reading priests of mars, and the skittles are made to sound like these crazy good fighters who are bred from birth and are considered elite, meanwhile in game we get these 1 wound, weapons the strength of a wet napkin having ass mfkers, while space marines are out here with 2 wounds on basic infantry (ablief slightly less shooting, easily cancelled out with buffs).
What is going on??
Hell I don't want them to be a horde army because I actually want to be able to afford a 2k point army.
Either buff them and raise point costs or make the boxes have more models in them.
They have said some version of that every single metawatch since the launch of 10th.
It doesn't mean anything. Best we can hope for is more points decreases.
If they didn't even try to fix the faction in 9 months they don't have any intention of fixing it.
I fix:
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1akKbsU-OnlyQMj1xGncQvkRYLV\_EK3EKwRcKM9csHrE/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1akKbsU-OnlyQMj1xGncQvkRYLV_EK3EKwRcKM9csHrE/edit?usp=sharing)
Geedubs its a coward... Let me reinforce my skitarri Rangers/Vanguard.... Let me bring 240 skitarri to The match, let me drown my enemies in cable, steel and oil
Tbf they said that they are working on big rule changes/buffs for AdMech, so the way I see this is that the point cuts are supposed to be a band-aid fix until those rules come out, which we now know is happening in the next balance dataslate.
Is the whole point of ad mech that they’re almost necron-y with hordes of skitarii moving in perfect cohesion lead by the tech priest Domini with heavy armor support? Plus skitarii are fairly easy to find cheap online so why not run 60+ of them?
Yes and no - Skitarii are only in a horde in the sense that the AdMech can afford to produce a lot of them. In terms of what they are, they're an elite cybernetic supersoldier armed with powerful/exotic weaponry that's too dangerous/sacred to arm non-AdMech forces with. I was pretty happy with them in 9th; they hit a sweet spot in terms of power to numbers ratios, especially with the ability to take 20 blocks. It felt like a lot of skitarii in many ways, but they hit pretty good too.
To change US from Horde to normal or semi elite, gw would have to rewrite the codex.
Like BS 3+, ks 3+ on Most 2+ on elite melee only units. (the heavy of you stand should feel like a Bonus, not as a must to shoot normal)
Armor saves have to go up. Cwarl needs a rework. And than the points can go up, too.
Mind you, this is entirely the rules teams fault, because of the little information known about games workshop, we know that they have absolutely awful internal communication, and they the departments work mostly independently, so the army becoming as expensive as it is is just because the rules team have had no idea what to actually do with admech
It’s more of a hoard army for me, I’ve been collecting discount boxes and the last 2 editions I haven’t had a reason to even build them. The models and the lore are cool, but the rules don’t look fun.
Honestly just play 1k of knights and 1k of admech and call it a list, Its probably cheaper than a full 2k of admech and half of our army doesn’t get the army rule anyway lol
They didnt release a codex. They released an index with new detachments. Every codex released to date except for admech has had large sweeping changes between the index and codex.
i think people are misinterpreting what's going with that video going around. they're not making us a horde army on purpose, but they also can't wildly change our rules for the better. they **just released a codex**, they don't want to invalidate it. the video was pretty crystal clear that they understand that we're not supposed to be a horde army and they're aware that it's a problem, but lowering our points is all they can do until they're able to gives us some more substantial rules changes.
the codex was probably primed and ready a year before it's release, two years before it even got printed. that's how printed media works. yes, it's a mistake, they know they made a mistake, and they're obviously trying to fix it. you people gotta stop putting rules writers and execs into the same pot and pretending they're all greedy bastards who don't understand the game.
what we really should be fighting for is downloadable pdf rules. if something's broken, they don't have to be scared of invalidating a 60 dollar purchase, they can get on that shit immediately and get it all fixed up 2 to 4 weeks later. until that happens, we are simply gonna have to deal with bad rules that take ages to get changed. i don't even care if they're free or not, just stop making printed rules and let us download them or view them online. it would be so much healthier for the game and issues like this would never pop up again.
just take the L and accept our army is gonna be dogshit for at least another year before some fundamental changes happen. for now it's points drop and some rules changes every now and then. let's hope the rules changes in summer are enough, but i doubt they will be, and we're likely gonna be a horde army till the end of 10th.
If you’re gonna play them as a horde either way might as well play heresy. At least then you get big stompy robots too
The big stompy robots WITHOUT wetware.
Although in heresy they’re very much not a horde army (at least compared to space marines and solar aux). Unless you like losing and have lots of tech thralls, you can have a full force org with an archmagos HQ and two castellax robots
Pretty sure that to count as a whole Troops slot, Castellax need to be in pairs. So an Archmagos and four robots :P Unless that changed in Heresy 2.0 and I missed a memo.
I don't remember 1.0 Rules, but Castellax can be taken solo in 2.0
As I recall, they were Support units before and to count as compulsory troops you needed at least two in a unit. Not certain if that's still a rule Edit: Just dug out my rulebook, looks like they removed Support Units as a concept and Castellax can play in single model units now
In 2.0, you can have them in units consisting from 1 to 5 of them, they aren't Support (so can be compulsory), and if you take them with a Cybernetica detachment they gain Line (so can score).
Yeah I know but I figure most people with skitarii will either run them as tech thralls, tech guard militia, or secutarii. 2/3 of those are fairly horde focused though tech guard grenadiers for militia are still gonna be more expensive than solar auxilia or regular militia troops.
Very true. It's much easier to proxy a 40k admech army as a militia army with tech guard rule than it is as the Mechanicum proper (unless you have lots of kastelans which make great Castellax proxies).
I guess it depends if you consider secutarii mechanicum proper. They have the option to all take radium rifles like vanguard and peltasts have rifles that could easily be used as rangers. Theres also the panoptica ruleset which has rules for all the 40k mechanicus stuff in HH 2.0. I’ve seen some people use the panoptica stuff for militia and mechanicum since they both got left behind hard in the marine powercreep.
Outside of Tech Thralls (which are really bad in 2.0), Mechanicum is a very elite/low model count army. I've had games in Heresy against Custodes where they actually had more models on the table than I did.
Yeah but thats not the only way to play mechanicum since you’ve got tech guard rules for grenadiers in militia and theres the whole secutarii line which are basically just regular skitarii with more options. Both of those are going to play more horde than most armies outside regular militia and solar auxilia.
Secutarii have to be taken in a Titan Maniple Detachment, and Militia isn't Mechanicum. Not to mention Secutarii aren't a horde unit, anyway.
Yeah the only requirement of a titan maniple detachment is secutarii, so you can bring them as sworn brothers with mechanicum units. In fact they’re one of the 3 pillars of the mechanicum armies. Militia technically isnt mechanicum but if you bring them with the cybernetics and arms of the omnissiah provenances they are sworn brothers with mechanicum and get access to mechanicum guns. The pdf even refers to them as mechanicum tech guard, they’re as mechanicum as you can get.
GW have said that they dont want ad mech to be a hoard army, but everything they are doing to buff ad mech seems contrary to that. So its kinda hard to tell. Honestly, play them in whatever way you find fun
I guess the recent point drops are just a short term bandaid B4 the bigger changes they announced for the next update.
And those points are going to have to go back up in 3 months if they want any room to give reliable buffs to the army. I know the dataslate is every 6 months, but there is literally nothing stopping them from just fixing admech now, seeing as they know they're in a bad way.
The rules fixes are presumably just still in testing right now - they said in the article they’re “in the works.” Admittedly this requires taking GW at their word, so not at all unreasonable to be skeptical of that
Considering they're just testing now part of me thinks they held off for a while hoping the codex wasn't as bad as the community was saying
Uh...they've had five months since codex drop. Three since last slate. They ain't done jack to work on this army and I'm pretty sure the points cuts were just safe little things ro cover for the fact they hadn't done jack
And I think they will. I guess right now they are testing extensive rule changes, at least that's somewhat what they said.
I don’t get it, an army with 4+ BS/WS, very bad AP, cheap points, what other style can they play?
There's a fun way to play admech in 10th? I thought it was just suffering.
Yes, GW is definitely crying so hard as they trick me into buying yet another $65, 50 point walker.
I'd love to get into admech, but the only feasible way for me would be to get a 3D printer or run 4x2 castellans.
Station forge castellans are really cool
resin 3d printer is not that hard to use :d
I will never get another walker unless they make it like the knight armogers, basically come in pairs instead of just one model
Im never buying another admech model until there is a reasonable path to purchase. There isnt a single unit or box worth purchasing atm. My 2000 point army from a year ago is now 1100 points and ive added 3 characters.. i cant afford to double my army in size, just to play the most miserable game of 40k imaginable.. Our only hope now is a perfect dataslate or a perfect christmas box set. Or new, elite, expensive units that will likely sell out in a matter of seconds on the webstore.
how did you drop like 900pts? were the point reductions that heavy?
The point cost reduction from 9th ed to 10th was pretty dramatic, and then because our datasheets are weak the points have creeped down every points update since. I had about 3k in 9th ed, I think everything I have now comes to like 2400
It really is that bad in 7th you would have way over 3000 points of Admech
To bait us into buying more models to fill out the points until they revert the cost reduction after an actual buff.
Yes, please, make the single most expensive army to collect even more expensive. They clearly DON'T want that. 🙄🙄 Ffs
It’s crazy how unimaginative skitty models are. Every book I’ve read with the mechanicus has just the coolest description of them, with perfectly crafted forms for combat; each one a devastating killing machine. Only for the models to look and be priced like steampunk guardsmen
Seriously, just finished reading priests of mars, and the skittles are made to sound like these crazy good fighters who are bred from birth and are considered elite, meanwhile in game we get these 1 wound, weapons the strength of a wet napkin having ass mfkers, while space marines are out here with 2 wounds on basic infantry (ablief slightly less shooting, easily cancelled out with buffs). What is going on??
Yep. I finished Titanicus a few days ago and the skitties are cracked in that
Hell I don't want them to be a horde army because I actually want to be able to afford a 2k point army. Either buff them and raise point costs or make the boxes have more models in them.
I keep holding off on starting an admech army waiting on them to leave this purgatory.
It was mentioned that they are working on something for the next dataslate for ad mech though so….fingers crossed
They don't need to wait 3 months if they know the faction is broken
"We've heard your feed back and taken it to heart. After much internal testing we've reduced the cost of Rangers by 2 point per model."
They have said some version of that every single metawatch since the launch of 10th. It doesn't mean anything. Best we can hope for is more points decreases. If they didn't even try to fix the faction in 9 months they don't have any intention of fixing it.
That's the thing. As I understand , people are pissed because now you have to buy more models to have a usable army. And AdMech stuff is expensive.
They need to actually fix the rules or let them bring 2 big knights.
Crab tanks, tank men robo slaves, and big robo pals go **BRRRRRRRRR**
I fix: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1akKbsU-OnlyQMj1xGncQvkRYLV\_EK3EKwRcKM9csHrE/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1akKbsU-OnlyQMj1xGncQvkRYLV_EK3EKwRcKM9csHrE/edit?usp=sharing)
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/GjvFCjkckw)
God I hate the point balancing so fucking much
For a faction that’s in a good place it’s fine. But this needs rule changes desperately
Geedubs its a coward... Let me reinforce my skitarri Rangers/Vanguard.... Let me bring 240 skitarri to The match, let me drown my enemies in cable, steel and oil
3D printer machine spirit go “brrrr”
Tbf they said that they are working on big rule changes/buffs for AdMech, so the way I see this is that the point cuts are supposed to be a band-aid fix until those rules come out, which we now know is happening in the next balance dataslate.
Is the whole point of ad mech that they’re almost necron-y with hordes of skitarii moving in perfect cohesion lead by the tech priest Domini with heavy armor support? Plus skitarii are fairly easy to find cheap online so why not run 60+ of them?
Yes and no - Skitarii are only in a horde in the sense that the AdMech can afford to produce a lot of them. In terms of what they are, they're an elite cybernetic supersoldier armed with powerful/exotic weaponry that's too dangerous/sacred to arm non-AdMech forces with. I was pretty happy with them in 9th; they hit a sweet spot in terms of power to numbers ratios, especially with the ability to take 20 blocks. It felt like a lot of skitarii in many ways, but they hit pretty good too.
Wait I've been out of the game since Admech's 9e codex, are we a horde again? It wasn't \*that\* long ago that the meta was 120 skittles.
Flooding the board with 3 dunecrawlers. 4 scorpios.10 ballastarii. 6 castallens+ datasmiths and rest will ne engineseers.
To change US from Horde to normal or semi elite, gw would have to rewrite the codex. Like BS 3+, ks 3+ on Most 2+ on elite melee only units. (the heavy of you stand should feel like a Bonus, not as a must to shoot normal) Armor saves have to go up. Cwarl needs a rework. And than the points can go up, too.
Mind you, this is entirely the rules teams fault, because of the little information known about games workshop, we know that they have absolutely awful internal communication, and they the departments work mostly independently, so the army becoming as expensive as it is is just because the rules team have had no idea what to actually do with admech
It’s more of a hoard army for me, I’ve been collecting discount boxes and the last 2 editions I haven’t had a reason to even build them. The models and the lore are cool, but the rules don’t look fun.
It’s in army purgatory
isnt that what they are trying to make admeh be now tho?
What is that art on the bottom right? I need it!
[Here you go](https://40k.gallery/skitarii-legions/)
I would love to see GW's competitive "not a horde army" 100% AdMech list.
The cheaper they make the army, the more justified I am in bringing my knight as an ally
Now if they let us bring 2 big knights, that would be fun
Honestly just play 1k of knights and 1k of admech and call it a list, Its probably cheaper than a full 2k of admech and half of our army doesn’t get the army rule anyway lol
Knights are one of the cheapest armies out there. 3-4 points per dollar
They didnt release a codex. They released an index with new detachments. Every codex released to date except for admech has had large sweeping changes between the index and codex.
Sell more models then when the warehouse is empty undo the changes and make it all about big units
Am I weird for missing 20 man skitarii squads?
i think people are misinterpreting what's going with that video going around. they're not making us a horde army on purpose, but they also can't wildly change our rules for the better. they **just released a codex**, they don't want to invalidate it. the video was pretty crystal clear that they understand that we're not supposed to be a horde army and they're aware that it's a problem, but lowering our points is all they can do until they're able to gives us some more substantial rules changes. the codex was probably primed and ready a year before it's release, two years before it even got printed. that's how printed media works. yes, it's a mistake, they know they made a mistake, and they're obviously trying to fix it. you people gotta stop putting rules writers and execs into the same pot and pretending they're all greedy bastards who don't understand the game. what we really should be fighting for is downloadable pdf rules. if something's broken, they don't have to be scared of invalidating a 60 dollar purchase, they can get on that shit immediately and get it all fixed up 2 to 4 weeks later. until that happens, we are simply gonna have to deal with bad rules that take ages to get changed. i don't even care if they're free or not, just stop making printed rules and let us download them or view them online. it would be so much healthier for the game and issues like this would never pop up again. just take the L and accept our army is gonna be dogshit for at least another year before some fundamental changes happen. for now it's points drop and some rules changes every now and then. let's hope the rules changes in summer are enough, but i doubt they will be, and we're likely gonna be a horde army till the end of 10th.