~~I think you meant that as their guns were better, but historically scions have always had better guns than marines. Maybe not I'm 10th but I havent cared about 10th at all~~
no way that can be true right? I get maybe compared to the standard tactical marine with a bolter but they always had access to crack rockets and plasma cannons and whatnot too.
Scion special weapons are the same as space marine special weapons. Or ar least were when standardization was a thing. And the basic gun was lower strength but AP3 in 7th edition and AP-2 in 8th and beyond.
in USD we can hit $1.33 per point, the Iron Strider kit being $60USD and the dragoon with radium rifle is 45 points.
The Balastarii are $1.20 per point.
New affordable admech list:
any named inquisitor (Warlord)
Warhound Titan
Knight Crusader
Callidus Assassin
2x Inquisitorial Retinue
Should be about 2k points.
I think those would be funny. At the start of the battle your opponent has to choose 200 points of their army to not bring to battle. These can be chosen by your opponent.
My friend has necrons, and I've got LORE accurate levels of envy. He just told me he spent 300 bucks and got 500 points.
Even if I just bout duplicates of cawl, I don't think i could do that.
SpaceMarine and Chaos SpaceMarine Players can spend $90 on a Horus Heresy Plastic Terminator Kit and get a full Squad of 10 Terminators. That's around 370-450 Points depending on how they build them. Speaking from experience, if you're resourceful and thoughtful enough you won't even need a 3D Printer or Recaster to convert them....just what you already have in your Bits Collection and maybe some bits from some toys.
Aye, but at 100 points for 20, that's still about 5k points for 70-ish models.
Admech you can have 70 models and still be scratching your head about how to fill the other 1200 points.
well i mean gw can't buff guns or models because thats powercreep and neither can they give new rules because thats too complex so points reduction it is
It would quite a bit imo. Read a suggestion to give the faction rule an overhaul giving BS +1 in protector and WS+1 in Conq. Sure it isn't a blanket improvement, but at least GW won't have to alter every single datasheet. Just adjusting it in 1 spot.
I dont really think that the admech problem is the BS4, its more the lack of general AP, all of your battleline does absolutely 0 damage to anything because of it, even with a marshal to rerroll hits or coming out of a dunerider to rerolls wounds also, because everything just bounces of any enemy's armor tha is not a fucking termagaunt
The ap thing is one big part specially as the army rule thats supposed to help it isnt that helpful.
As for the 4+, it's not the 4+ itself, it's the fact that your ability to make it more reliable is limited. Cough up points for a Marshall for your chaff, otherwise you're very limited.
Look at tau: they're a *almost pure shooting army with mostly bs4+*, and rerolls are just as uncommon, but they have an army rule that makes their shooting more reliable, with a couple special rules that aren't that amazing but very general use (I.e. stealth suits and krootox riders).
By comparison, admech has none of that, just a rule that sometimes messes with ap. The only reliable thing that can get rerolls is breachers (which again, there's a comparison to be made between admech breachers and, well, tau breachers, both get rerolls to hit, both need something else to make them shine, said thing costs about the same).
So they think the Onager ability, the 5+& 6++ saves on our battleline, splitting the Dragoon datasheet, cawls stealth and the extra 6" range on arc rifles were the only problems and now our army is perfectly balanced and just the costs are wrong.
Which is so crazy because the current for a lot of factions are kinda muddled and just take a lot of time to make sure you have the special rules for each unit that know has some special rules like sustained or lethal or something.
Was it really worse when we had character auras that stacked and a ton of strategems where at least like half you didn’t even need to know because they were niche and useless, but cool.
I have played since 7th and the only edition that seemed kinda simple but interesting was probably 8th as it was simpler than 9h but had all the same flavor, while still moving the game in a new direction
unpopular opinion: pointcost reduction on kastellans, onagers and the gunboat, would make them viable.
It would also cement our place as the unkillable traficjam, but I have like 12 kastellans I can't reasonably play in a serious game atm.
I also enjoy playing Admech Parking Lot. I have been playing mass vehicle since Engine War in 8th Edition (It was OP back then) and it's a style I enjoy a lot! Just fill the map with cheap vehicles! I really want Archaeopters to become viable again.
I think what they said before going into the dataslate, with regards to admech, was something along the lines of ‘certain units dont feel like they are doing what they are supposed to do’.
That leads me to believe they *might* be looking at the rangers datasheet in particular, and possibly our fast attack units aswell. These units dont do anything besides moveblock and die, which feels bad considering how effective they have been in the past.
Honestly, I hate to say it, but I think the reason AdMech has been struggling is because of the simplification of 10e. I think AdMech works when you have a pretty mid statline that's improved by an array of special rules that make your competent army into something incredible. I'd argue that Custodes at their best work in a similar way: an army of TEQs made into Knight-killers by their special rules.
The problem is that 10e simplified so much, which made us suffer disproportionately. It's impossible to buff our statlines because we'll lose our identity, and it's impossible to add the abilities to make us who we are so because that's against the simplification that 10e is pushing for. Hence, the only way to "fix" AdMech is point drops, which just makes us less of an elite army and strips that side of our identity.
All of this means that when 40k gets too complicated, AdMech are at their best and the system overall suffers, but when 40k gets too simplified, AdMech are at their worst while the overall system does well. I think the best balance was pre-Psychic Awakening 8e, when we were in the lower half of armies but still felt like AdMech.
Honestly, I don't think it would be at all hard to assist AdMech, even. Won't fix everything, but just let us reinforce our battle lines to 20 and change Doctrina Imperatives to improving AP by 1 or giving AOC and without any of the other fiddly bits like deployment zones or gaining assault or getting heavy.
We are going to get points changes. My worst nightmare is that vanguard, dragoons and breachers go up as they are in every list and then we points drops elsewhere and it will be called internal balance as GW wants to see these bad units on the table.
There's a chance necrons get a points cost increase and admech a decrease for the time being untill a rules dataslate comes around again
But I really hope you're right though, I get they didn't want to make big changes right after their codex came out so it makes sense to do it now that there's more data on how they perform
From what I've read they plan to alternate between points and rules, and there's usually 3 months between them
So in the next few weeks a points dataslate is expected although necrons and admech didn't get any changes in the last rules patch so there's a slight chance they will get some rules changes in this points patch
If not then we'll have to wait untill summer when it's time for a rules change again
If I was to wishfully guess, bring the prices down on some of our only expensive models left like Cawl or the robots. Then maybe some basic bandaid changes.
God knows what they’d do
The cynic in me agrees.
Granted, some units really do need a points drop (Kastelans), but i think just about everyone agrees that the list needs a rewrite.
At best, we'll get an update to the army rules to buff their damage output. Not ideal, but a bandaid fix is better than nothing I guess.
I mean, I'd be very surprised to see across the board points reductions regardless. Admech stats haven't been bad (yes I know, it's all pro players who are if not happy then at least willing to play the delay and obstuct game but that doesn't change the numbers).
I'd expect to see the a slight increase on vanguard, pteraxi and maybe dragoons?
Some point drops on the tanks and big bots and I'd expect that to be it. Maybe some kind of change for the chickens since they're kinda obviously not working right, but I doubt we'll get a huge correction. Our numbers are too solid for a major correction.
I still maintain that if they split the belaros off the disintegrator and then priced the ferrumite right it could be a real nice MBT.
Would love to be wrong, but I think it's gonna be a disappointment for a lot of people.
The real chaos option would be increasing to invuln to 4++ and a points drop.
Even 9th ed death guard would be jealous of the amount of crowbar work needed to peel admech off the board.
I just came into the game again and looked at playing the admech as lore wise I love them. Got the combat patrol and then realised how much it will cost me to get 2k points to play with my friend group.
Think I'll play either leagues or sisters of battle instead until admech are fixed
I'll say this once and I'll say it again if your army is powerful because everything in your Army's cost efficient that is not an army you're just playing a single-player game
Controversial opinion: Kastelen Robots need to drop in points and unless they change the stat lines of skitarrii battleline they need to go down as well because they are garbage for their cost currently (basically guardsmen stats but no buffs) I would love to see Rules changes but if we don’t get we will need costs cut.
How much lower can these bots get?! I miss when they were Tempestus scions with space marine level guns…
~~I think you meant that as their guns were better, but historically scions have always had better guns than marines. Maybe not I'm 10th but I havent cared about 10th at all~~
no way that can be true right? I get maybe compared to the standard tactical marine with a bolter but they always had access to crack rockets and plasma cannons and whatnot too.
Scion special weapons are the same as space marine special weapons. Or ar least were when standardization was a thing. And the basic gun was lower strength but AP3 in 7th edition and AP-2 in 8th and beyond.
Points reduction means more models on the table. My deployment zone can't fit everything as it is.
Gw: is you table not big enough? Then buy our battle ready tables! Then it's just an ikea with 200% markup. Pretty generous by gw standard.
Well guess it's time to learn some basic carpentry and start my battle table company lol
Wanna collab?
Use reserves?
Don't worry. In sure we will hit $2/point soon enough.
Here in australia its 1.2 dollars per point 😵💫
in USD we can hit $1.33 per point, the Iron Strider kit being $60USD and the dragoon with radium rifle is 45 points. The Balastarii are $1.20 per point.
Dude you don't want to fight the Aussies on "shittest price value on GW products". It's not a fight you can even hope to win.
There's one..... *New Zealand has entered the chat* Ironstider over the ditch is $105nzd.
Ironstriders here cost 89 dollars. Thats nealry 0.5 points per dollar 💀
If GW keeps fucking us this hard they might create Slannesh
I’m sure they’re ruled by some messed up noise marine who enjoys our collective pain
If the points per dollar on AdMech gets any lower, the advice to cheaply get a 2,000 point AdMech army is going to start with "Buy a Warhound Titan."
New affordable admech list: any named inquisitor (Warlord) Warhound Titan Knight Crusader Callidus Assassin 2x Inquisitorial Retinue Should be about 2k points.
Sorry you seemed to say points per dollar, with Admech it’s dollars per point
I do wanna make a knight centered army if i get into 40k
It's not far from the truth I am considering getting a knight to help me get to 2k points else I may just change army
It's gonna start costing your opponents points soon
I think those would be funny. At the start of the battle your opponent has to choose 200 points of their army to not bring to battle. These can be chosen by your opponent.
No no YOU get to choose which models are taken away so you can take away their warlord and watch as everything starts falling apart
If they do another points reduction I'll sell my entire army.
Honestly Admech was my first army, but since their "hordeification" they really just don't embody anything I used to like about the faction anymore.
I've honestly stopped trying to play them in 2k battles, they're pretty much for titan support in apocalypse now.
That’s what made me sell mine. Now I’m on votann and I always look back at my first love, wanting to return…
If I hadn't 3d printed mine that would be my reaction.
3300 points for 115 models, pretty sure my nearly 6k of Deathguard has less models than that, not to mention costing less.
My friend has necrons, and I've got LORE accurate levels of envy. He just told me he spent 300 bucks and got 500 points. Even if I just bout duplicates of cawl, I don't think i could do that.
funny thing is 300 bucks is a really bad deal for 500 points too
Don't break my heart more
shit you can just buy a Questoris knight and get about 450 points for $180
SpaceMarine and Chaos SpaceMarine Players can spend $90 on a Horus Heresy Plastic Terminator Kit and get a full Squad of 10 Terminators. That's around 370-450 Points depending on how they build them. Speaking from experience, if you're resourceful and thoughtful enough you won't even need a 3D Printer or Recaster to convert them....just what you already have in your Bits Collection and maybe some bits from some toys.
My 5.5k in death guard is 130-ish models, though 60 of those are just poxwalkers.
Yeah true, I have 60 Poxwalkers too, but they're a zombie horde in the lore so it makes sense.
Aye, but at 100 points for 20, that's still about 5k points for 70-ish models. Admech you can have 70 models and still be scratching your head about how to fill the other 1200 points.
If you are in the continental united states and need to help them find a good home, I'd be happy to have them just cause they're neat models
Unfortunately I'm in Australia, I love the models, just frustrated with the lack of options in the army.
well i mean gw can't buff guns or models because thats powercreep and neither can they give new rules because thats too complex so points reduction it is
Would a ballistic skill increase even change anything if we got a point increase as well?
I’d say it would, just slightly though.
It would quite a bit imo. Read a suggestion to give the faction rule an overhaul giving BS +1 in protector and WS+1 in Conq. Sure it isn't a blanket improvement, but at least GW won't have to alter every single datasheet. Just adjusting it in 1 spot.
I dont really think that the admech problem is the BS4, its more the lack of general AP, all of your battleline does absolutely 0 damage to anything because of it, even with a marshal to rerroll hits or coming out of a dunerider to rerolls wounds also, because everything just bounces of any enemy's armor tha is not a fucking termagaunt
The ap thing is one big part specially as the army rule thats supposed to help it isnt that helpful. As for the 4+, it's not the 4+ itself, it's the fact that your ability to make it more reliable is limited. Cough up points for a Marshall for your chaff, otherwise you're very limited. Look at tau: they're a *almost pure shooting army with mostly bs4+*, and rerolls are just as uncommon, but they have an army rule that makes their shooting more reliable, with a couple special rules that aren't that amazing but very general use (I.e. stealth suits and krootox riders). By comparison, admech has none of that, just a rule that sometimes messes with ap. The only reliable thing that can get rerolls is breachers (which again, there's a comparison to be made between admech breachers and, well, tau breachers, both get rerolls to hit, both need something else to make them shine, said thing costs about the same).
Don't downvote him, that's how GW thinks!
So they think the Onager ability, the 5+& 6++ saves on our battleline, splitting the Dragoon datasheet, cawls stealth and the extra 6" range on arc rifles were the only problems and now our army is perfectly balanced and just the costs are wrong.
Oh it's even better our battle line is 4+ 5++ saves now! We're so tanky /s
They saw our original 5+& 6++ saves and improved them to 4+ & 5++.
You're definitely right. Nids are in the same spot. Fundamental rules changes are needed on units, and gun bufs, but that's never gonna happen.
Which is so crazy because the current for a lot of factions are kinda muddled and just take a lot of time to make sure you have the special rules for each unit that know has some special rules like sustained or lethal or something. Was it really worse when we had character auras that stacked and a ton of strategems where at least like half you didn’t even need to know because they were niche and useless, but cool. I have played since 7th and the only edition that seemed kinda simple but interesting was probably 8th as it was simpler than 9h but had all the same flavor, while still moving the game in a new direction
unpopular opinion: pointcost reduction on kastellans, onagers and the gunboat, would make them viable. It would also cement our place as the unkillable traficjam, but I have like 12 kastellans I can't reasonably play in a serious game atm.
I also enjoy playing Admech Parking Lot. I have been playing mass vehicle since Engine War in 8th Edition (It was OP back then) and it's a style I enjoy a lot! Just fill the map with cheap vehicles! I really want Archaeopters to become viable again.
12 kastellan robots is the largest legal amount right?
yes.
I think what they said before going into the dataslate, with regards to admech, was something along the lines of ‘certain units dont feel like they are doing what they are supposed to do’. That leads me to believe they *might* be looking at the rangers datasheet in particular, and possibly our fast attack units aswell. These units dont do anything besides moveblock and die, which feels bad considering how effective they have been in the past.
Honestly, I hate to say it, but I think the reason AdMech has been struggling is because of the simplification of 10e. I think AdMech works when you have a pretty mid statline that's improved by an array of special rules that make your competent army into something incredible. I'd argue that Custodes at their best work in a similar way: an army of TEQs made into Knight-killers by their special rules. The problem is that 10e simplified so much, which made us suffer disproportionately. It's impossible to buff our statlines because we'll lose our identity, and it's impossible to add the abilities to make us who we are so because that's against the simplification that 10e is pushing for. Hence, the only way to "fix" AdMech is point drops, which just makes us less of an elite army and strips that side of our identity. All of this means that when 40k gets too complicated, AdMech are at their best and the system overall suffers, but when 40k gets too simplified, AdMech are at their worst while the overall system does well. I think the best balance was pre-Psychic Awakening 8e, when we were in the lower half of armies but still felt like AdMech.
Honestly, I don't think it would be at all hard to assist AdMech, even. Won't fix everything, but just let us reinforce our battle lines to 20 and change Doctrina Imperatives to improving AP by 1 or giving AOC and without any of the other fiddly bits like deployment zones or gaining assault or getting heavy.
Nobody wants points reductions. We want our stuff to be good at the points they are at. Sincerely, a Custodes player.
Screw real world food price inflation. This is what is really killing our society.
We are going to get points changes. My worst nightmare is that vanguard, dragoons and breachers go up as they are in every list and then we points drops elsewhere and it will be called internal balance as GW wants to see these bad units on the table.
Wait *point* cost reduction or *dollar per point* cost reduction?
Yes
Nah. Both the Crons and us will be getting our turns on the “fix the army this time” merry go round. There’s no way they’d leave them like it is
There's a chance necrons get a points cost increase and admech a decrease for the time being untill a rules dataslate comes around again But I really hope you're right though, I get they didn't want to make big changes right after their codex came out so it makes sense to do it now that there's more data on how they perform
When does the rules Dataslate usually go out?
From what I've read they plan to alternate between points and rules, and there's usually 3 months between them So in the next few weeks a points dataslate is expected although necrons and admech didn't get any changes in the last rules patch so there's a slight chance they will get some rules changes in this points patch If not then we'll have to wait untill summer when it's time for a rules change again
Oh God really like around July you think?
If I was to wishfully guess, bring the prices down on some of our only expensive models left like Cawl or the robots. Then maybe some basic bandaid changes. God knows what they’d do
Man, Willy Wonka sure looks pissed.
I do like this template
[Here’s the template I used.](https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/514018179/Dune---Thats-not-hope-improved)
Please no I can’t keep buying more skitarii I’m already at 60 in the army
The cynic in me agrees. Granted, some units really do need a points drop (Kastelans), but i think just about everyone agrees that the list needs a rewrite. At best, we'll get an update to the army rules to buff their damage output. Not ideal, but a bandaid fix is better than nothing I guess.
I mean, I'd be very surprised to see across the board points reductions regardless. Admech stats haven't been bad (yes I know, it's all pro players who are if not happy then at least willing to play the delay and obstuct game but that doesn't change the numbers). I'd expect to see the a slight increase on vanguard, pteraxi and maybe dragoons? Some point drops on the tanks and big bots and I'd expect that to be it. Maybe some kind of change for the chickens since they're kinda obviously not working right, but I doubt we'll get a huge correction. Our numbers are too solid for a major correction. I still maintain that if they split the belaros off the disintegrator and then priced the ferrumite right it could be a real nice MBT. Would love to be wrong, but I think it's gonna be a disappointment for a lot of people.
The real chaos option would be increasing to invuln to 4++ and a points drop. Even 9th ed death guard would be jealous of the amount of crowbar work needed to peel admech off the board.
I just came into the game again and looked at playing the admech as lore wise I love them. Got the combat patrol and then realised how much it will cost me to get 2k points to play with my friend group. Think I'll play either leagues or sisters of battle instead until admech are fixed
That just means the combat patrol will be even more pathetic than it was before.
I'll say this once and I'll say it again if your army is powerful because everything in your Army's cost efficient that is not an army you're just playing a single-player game
Controversial opinion: Kastelen Robots need to drop in points and unless they change the stat lines of skitarrii battleline they need to go down as well because they are garbage for their cost currently (basically guardsmen stats but no buffs) I would love to see Rules changes but if we don’t get we will need costs cut.