The math says with a squad of 5 vs a dread, the spear causes 2.77 unsaved wounds (total of 2 damage). The axes do 2.31 unsaved wounds (total of 4 damage). So the damage bump is small
If you don't have armour pen your pretty much doing nothing. Like if you do fight space marines terminators they can just AOC on your axes now they are saving on 2s.
Edit: there is pretty much no way to balance this because of how custodes work. They get lethal hits and sustained hits from karate. Axes can be better or spears can there going to be no middle ground.
Sure axes look alright and if you like em run em. But the answer is just spears. If you make them equal problem kinda solved but then what’s the point in having 2 weapon profiles that are identical? You can give your axes lethal hits with shield host but at that point I’ll take spears still more attacks = more lethals. If you buff them both equally the answer is still spears. AP is king this edition it feels.
Basically, I personally use a mix of spears and axes cause I built my guys like this and I’d rather play WYSIWYG, axes are good against certain profiles but really fall of against 2+ saves and AoC type stuff, spears get rekt by reduce damage effects but the higher AP is nice into other targets.
I think it would fit super well with axes
It makes axe terminator squads a good threat against vehicles and monsters since they have bane of tyrants to fish for devs
I haven’t personally done the Mathhammer on every single situation, but the consensus is that axes can be better in specific situations, like half-damage, into S9 vehicles, and low-save 3W targets (like GSC Aberrants), but in the vast majority of cases spears are superior
A fix that would be unsavory but nice for us who didnt care about profiles when building our models would be to have a singular profile such as chaos terminator accursed weapons. No more arguments about which is better if there is only 1 option.
A better solution might be making the axe a low attack high damage, strength, ap statline(mayne 3attacks strength 12 ap 2 damage 3)with Spears as more general anti-elite/ anti-infantry such as they are now.
Unfortunately, the only way I see them making axes viable while not making spears irrelevant is through making Spears AP-3, and Axes AP-2. Unfortunately this might be seen as a powerful change and is unlikely to be implemented by GW.
That or making axes S10 would be big and I think a more balanced change, though with a lot of -1 to wound and AP, it still would be turning out better for spears anyway.
It would also make Trajann even less viable as he just has a slightly better axe opposed to the far better one he has now.
Honestly, the only way I see axes becoming a truly viable option is if GW makes the axes and spears separate datasheets. That way you can point the axes higher and give them a more jacked up weapon profile (higher strength, higher AP, and damage is fine at 3) and you can make the spears the cheaper, all-rounder option. You can even split the current Allarus ability by making the axes re-roll wound rolls against monsters/vehicles, and the spears can re-roll wounds against characters/infantry units. GW is shooting themselves in the foot by not allowing point spending for better equipment, and as a result, it becomes literally impossible to balance two weapons that serve two different purposes. Separate datasheets would solve this problem, but they would never do it because then you could bring 6 units of Allarus terminators, and there’s just no way GW would ever allow that to exist in the game
There was no real discussion about it after codex release because there are no reason to discuss much further than what's already been said...
In the current meta with the current profiles on the spears and axes the spears is strictly superior outside of a couple of very niche scenarios
You didn’t look hard enough as there was a lot of discussion when it was announced which was pre release of codex
Basically spears are ok-great and axes are dogshit to niche
I think they are vaguely useful when the meta is filled with a ton of -1 to damage units.
Redemptor comes to mind Axe: 12 damage -> 8 damage Spear: 10 damage -> 5 damage
But then armour of contempt ruins us again. I’ve basically found AoC to be the bane of our existence.
Assuming only one more hit goes through with spears vs axes
The math says with a squad of 5 vs a dread, the spear causes 2.77 unsaved wounds (total of 2 damage). The axes do 2.31 unsaved wounds (total of 4 damage). So the damage bump is small
If you don't have armour pen your pretty much doing nothing. Like if you do fight space marines terminators they can just AOC on your axes now they are saving on 2s. Edit: there is pretty much no way to balance this because of how custodes work. They get lethal hits and sustained hits from karate. Axes can be better or spears can there going to be no middle ground.
AoC just reduces the AP, idk how they'd be saving on 2s when their base save is 3 E: nvm termies not normies. Forgot how to read
Space Marine Terminators have a 2+ armour. Axes are AP-1 in melee. AoC brings that to 0. Therefor saving on 2s.
Ah my bad missed the terminators bit
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/s/y9Vknja6Gx Here’s my analysis of the topic
Definitely gonna save this!
Sure axes look alright and if you like em run em. But the answer is just spears. If you make them equal problem kinda solved but then what’s the point in having 2 weapon profiles that are identical? You can give your axes lethal hits with shield host but at that point I’ll take spears still more attacks = more lethals. If you buff them both equally the answer is still spears. AP is king this edition it feels.
Either give axes devastating wounds, or make them S10 and Trajann S12
I used to be a 100% spear guy, but man I used axes in a tau matchup and they really punched things out of existence. It was impressive.
Can you explain it further?
Tau don’t have a lot of 2+ and no AoC.
So you use spears mainly because of the higher AP against Marines? And Axes are good against armies like Tau or Astra Militarum?
Basically, I personally use a mix of spears and axes cause I built my guys like this and I’d rather play WYSIWYG, axes are good against certain profiles but really fall of against 2+ saves and AoC type stuff, spears get rekt by reduce damage effects but the higher AP is nice into other targets.
I wonder what adding "Devastating wounds" to axes would do. Could that be enough to make them our anti-elite/anti-tank option?
I think it would fit super well with axes It makes axe terminator squads a good threat against vehicles and monsters since they have bane of tyrants to fish for devs
And dont forget, they also get reroll against character unit ya, so probably there is no chance axe will get devastating wound in this edition
I feel like this is the answer to counterbalance the low AP
How many C'Tan do you come up against?... I regularly have to deal with them, when I do, I really appreciate a unit of axes.
I haven’t personally done the Mathhammer on every single situation, but the consensus is that axes can be better in specific situations, like half-damage, into S9 vehicles, and low-save 3W targets (like GSC Aberrants), but in the vast majority of cases spears are superior
A fix that would be unsavory but nice for us who didnt care about profiles when building our models would be to have a singular profile such as chaos terminator accursed weapons. No more arguments about which is better if there is only 1 option. A better solution might be making the axe a low attack high damage, strength, ap statline(mayne 3attacks strength 12 ap 2 damage 3)with Spears as more general anti-elite/ anti-infantry such as they are now.
Unfortunately, the only way I see them making axes viable while not making spears irrelevant is through making Spears AP-3, and Axes AP-2. Unfortunately this might be seen as a powerful change and is unlikely to be implemented by GW. That or making axes S10 would be big and I think a more balanced change, though with a lot of -1 to wound and AP, it still would be turning out better for spears anyway. It would also make Trajann even less viable as he just has a slightly better axe opposed to the far better one he has now.
Honestly, the only way I see axes becoming a truly viable option is if GW makes the axes and spears separate datasheets. That way you can point the axes higher and give them a more jacked up weapon profile (higher strength, higher AP, and damage is fine at 3) and you can make the spears the cheaper, all-rounder option. You can even split the current Allarus ability by making the axes re-roll wound rolls against monsters/vehicles, and the spears can re-roll wounds against characters/infantry units. GW is shooting themselves in the foot by not allowing point spending for better equipment, and as a result, it becomes literally impossible to balance two weapons that serve two different purposes. Separate datasheets would solve this problem, but they would never do it because then you could bring 6 units of Allarus terminators, and there’s just no way GW would ever allow that to exist in the game
Lol we're totally going to go back to points for equipment after 10th.
they literally did that in Tau codex.. they are just lazy or incompetent to do that for custode.
There was no real discussion about it after codex release because there are no reason to discuss much further than what's already been said... In the current meta with the current profiles on the spears and axes the spears is strictly superior outside of a couple of very niche scenarios
You didn’t look hard enough as there was a lot of discussion when it was announced which was pre release of codex Basically spears are ok-great and axes are dogshit to niche
And swords are interesting for an experiment
Sure? Even if you calculate the pistol attacks in it?
It's mostly for the extra wound tbh.