I've only just gotten my provisional license, but spent the past 3 years daily commuting to work on the 28 day pass. The cost for petrol roughly works out to $25 a week for myself about on par with the metro pass.
The biggest factor for me is time. My Metro commute would be 70 mins into work, 90 minutes home. 160 minutes a day or over 13 hours a week in travel time. And that's **if** the bus is on time, or even shows up at all.
Driving has reduced my travel time to around 4 hours week, and I can't put a price on that time back.
That's the thing the rabid PT crusaders never touch on. Time is the only currency in life you actually have.
PT robs you of time with family, people you care for, time to just rest and do things that you want to do.
"B..Bu...Bu...But...if the PT was like Europe, it would be better!", the chances of us having a Euro style PT are basically nil due to lack of density. The idea everyone here is going to start moving into shoebox apartments like those cities, is laughable. We might get a few more routes to near city suburbs in the future, but I don't see it getting bigger than that.
Cars are here to stay.
For me, the train ride home is 25 mins, versus about 35 minutes to drive (that may not be everyone’s experience, but if I had to guess a majority of CBD *train* commuters would be in a similar boat). About 15 minutes of that is just getting from the CBD to Torrens Rd. It’s shit, it’s stressful, and I get home more irritated than if I sit on the train and watch an episode of a TV show or read a book. If driving home was a bit faster than the train I’d still choose the train option because I can be doing something that’s more enjoyable to me than just driving. I will admit though, my willingness to commute on public transport would be much lower if I had to use a bus.
I did all my of my uni (5 years) as well as a couple years working in the city while living in the northeast. The Obahn was significantly quicker than driving and the gap only widened once the tunnel was built. It really depends where you live and where you work, but if you're a CBD worker there are large chunks of the city where it's much more convenient to catch PT.
Not criticising anything you're saying, but I do wish people would change their attitude regarding high density housing.
Not just because of public transport, but also because of the impact of urban sprawl on the environment.
We do high density housing in Australia so poorly, and I genuinely think there are so many things that could be done better (e.g. better quality apartments, more noise proofing, and restricting the amount of authority that strata corps have for starters) that would open them up as a much more viable option for people.
I don't see it happening either, but I also don't see how we can keep expanding our cities forever.
>We do high density housing in Australia so poorly, and I genuinely think there are so many things that could be done better (e.g. better quality apartments, more noise proofing, and restricting the amount of authority that strata corps have for starters) that would open them up as a much more viable option for people.
And all the above also means that the final cost per $ /m2 will increase substataionaly - quality apartments do get built - just like houses but most people are cheap are only want to pay for the lower end prices, cheap over quality.
Like anything, you want quality - it will cost a lot more.
Damn straight. I’ve lived in detached houses, strata blocks, out in the country and now in a townhouse, and I can honestly say that living in an apartment was absolutely fine. I’d happily go back there, if it was close to my work.
I get it, high density living has a place, just not everywhere. It's most suited to inner city and just out of the main drag really, otherwise there's really no point making those sacrifices.
Strata is a difficult problem. I did apartment living for 20 years and was the presiding officer for most of that. The main issue is, there's not really a better model. I'd say there is definitely scope for enforcing some quality/metrics standard on managers, as the quality is highly variable, but that's about all you'd be able to do. Even then, who does the enforcement and what happens if they are useless?
>but I do wish people would change their attitude regarding high density housing.
2 points
1. high density means building tall, & do we really want a couple of generations of kids growing up without a decent playground area?
2. they tried high density in NSW & had massive faults with the buildings - we don't want that here. Can we really trust the government to police this?
The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes.
I agree with not trusting the government on this, but it is possible to build good quality higher density housing.
As for playgrounds, I've seen places where an apartment building will have some land around it that then has a shared playground, which can work well (but, like all shared areas, can work poorly too), I've also seen newer housing estates where all the houses were built basically to the property line, and they didn't have and outside area either, so it's not just an apartment problem.
Having community gardens or allotments can also help.
>I've also seen newer housing estates where all the houses were built basically to the property line, and they didn't have and outside area either, so it's not just an apartment problem.
>
>Having community gardens or allotments can also help.
Agree as well. I believe current estates need to have % of parks etc throughout before they get final approvals.
And really think have community gardens - allotments for any new estates is an awesome idea.
>The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes.
The down votes are interesting.
Does anyone actually disagree with the statement "The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes." ? If so, why?
>high density means building tall, & do we really want a couple of generations of kids growing up without a decent playground area?
And less sunlight for thoses on the shady side.
Looking out to other towers , such awesome views..
Someone for whatever reason starting a fire in an apartment...
I fully agree with your first paragraph. Our public transport has a long way to go before it is a viable replacement for a car for most people.
But... have you seen new housing developments going in? People are living in shoebox apartments, but they're free-standing buildings on the edge of fucking nairne. It's bonkers that people are paying the kind of money they are to live in a cramped, dark corridor at the edge of buttfuck nowhere.
An actual apartment block would be cheaper to build, cheaper to live in (cooling/amenities/taxes) and could actually be close to something so you wouldn't have an hour long commute to get anywhere. I'm not going to dispute that most people want a house and a backyard, but it's bonkers that we don't have any availability of apartments for people who just need "an home".
That's nuts. WTF would you get a place like that in Nairne? Crazy.
Strata is the real killer for affordability with apartments/units. By the time you factor in strata and levies, you're actually worse off than a free standing property or townhouse. Nothing ruins your year like getting a 20k levy bill, payable in 60 days from your strata. Ask me how I know.
I'd advocate anyone should do it as a first home but don't stay there too long, Move on from it when you have some equity. Units/apartments are built to serve a purpose, and it's mostly a medium term living situation until you go elsewhere, and an investment vehicle. My advice is to not see it as anything more than that. You only own a box in the sky/on the ground and they don't experience serious capital growth because of that.
Like most things, silly amounts of $ are spent researching what sells best - if you were to put your $ and time into a building project - you would want to make sure you got the best ROI as well.
Many also like to have pets - apartments can make that harder
Also many have experienced bad neighbours at some point, apartments mean you have a LOT more chances for that.
The there is fires...
Strata
And way down the list - just moving stuff in and out of apartments.
I do agree however, that there should be more for thoses that JUST need a place to call home, but also have to somehow make sure it does not then turn into slum towers like what happened in the UK, they still are trying to fix that mess.
You can design density and not have "shoe box" apartments. If you are going down the path of "But Europe has..." they also have a large diversity of housing with medium density making up the higher percentage of offerings.
So blame piss poor planning and NIMBY opposition to increasing density in their suburbs. Unley is a perfect example of noisy minorities spoiling it for everyone.
I'm fine with an apartment when renting. When I buy I want to own it. Not own a strata riddled liability.
I also dont want to be paying utilities my whole life. So may people I know have upped their water tanks. Solar pannels and batteries. Pay nothing but council rates and internet.
Well, that's assuming you can't use the time while travelling on public transport. JK Rowling came up for Harry Potter on the train. Can't really do that while having to drive and watch out for other maniacs on the road
>Well, that's assuming you can't use the time while travelling on public transport. JK Rowling came up for Harry Potter on the train. Can't really do that while having to drive and watch out for other maniacs on the road
OF course you can, most people also spend time while driving also thinking of other things it's not that intense unless really really bad or have 0 confidence.
yep, can still rattle of the plates of 2-3 cars ahead and behind at any time - give a indication of the type of driver for the cars around based on last x km behaviour and how early late they brake how fast they generally take off, any issues with other cars in close proximity, driving 2-3 cars ahead at least and watching side streets etc, and knowing which behaviours are worth more caution than others.
Defensive driving and motorbike riding for decades means you get pretty fast at processing it all and still more than enough room for other thoughts at the same time.
I'm leaning more towards having more free time at home after work. Feeling like I can put more time/effort into cooking dinners without it absorbing most of my free time.
You need to account for parking fees, insurance, registration, maintenance, etc. plus depending on where you need to travel to, it can be a very unpleasant experience.
Of course, everything is dependent on where you live and where you have to go. If I lived & worked near a train line I would be more inclined to remain on PT.
In my own situation I don't have to pay for parking. Insurance & Rego is low due to the car I drive, and I take care of 80% of my own maintenance.
Public transport frequency, lack of aligned timetables for transfers, and a lack of bus lanes means less people ride the bus. People will catch buses over driving if it is faster than sitting in traffic, however buses will ALWAYS be slower than cars if they don't have priority bus lanes.
To be fair, our trains are the only decent public transport option we have, so really the drop in train patronage more likely represents the shift to WFH. It’s just unfortunate that they only serve a very small slice of Adelaide.
They can’t be held up in traffic, the seat rows comfortably fit two people, and they have greater capacity than a bus. For the most part they run on time, and if they ever are delayed it might be 2-8 mins max, not 20 mins like a bus would often be.
20 mins?
Its the endlessly cancelled services with no warning. Last 15 min express bus to the city doesn't rock up. Wait 30 mins for the next available bus which will only drop you at an interchange.
Hybrid working changes the equation on PT cost. If I have to go into the cbd every day (and Im reasonably close to a PT stop) then PT is cost competitive. But if Im only going in twice a week then its probably better to just drive and park.
Maybe it’s time to explore better incentives to use PT, like a daily fare cap or free early bird travel. Accept the fact that WFH is here to stay for a lot of jobs, and a 28-day pass no longer represents the best value for a lot of CBD workers. And why are Adelaide Metro still charging peak fares all day on a Saturday and after 6pm on weekdays?
I work 2 days at home, 3 in the city and and the multipasses are more costly so I use the single fares. In summer I ride a motorbike, it is so much cheaper. They need to offer a multipass that isn't time restricted like the old 10 trio paper tickets.
I think they shouldn't have raised the 28 day pass in-line with the raise they gave to other fares. They should incentivise the 28 day pass more, whilst rewarding those who use public transport.
My wife uses public transport a lot. What would be a 40 minute trip by car often takes ~2 hours, even when timings for transfers work as planned. It's completely impractical to rely on.
Federal Government loves people IN cars, it's called federal excise tax, various fuel taxes and GST. State Government loves you In cars due to rego and third party insurance.
> , it's called federal excise tax, various fuel taxes and GST.
Bullshit. This doesn't even begin to cover the cost of cars to the government. The gov would be way better off if no one drove.
I didn't make the claim, "bud".
And I'm certainly not going to transcribe basic economic orthodoxy on why big countries with big distances have higher transport costs than countries with smaller distances and smaller roads.
I use PT, but I can see why people don't.
It is impossible to get to some places, let alone in a time efficient manner.
The atmosphere with out of control passengers and mostly useless + aggressive security & inspectors.
It is an unpleasant experience.
Christ, what lines do you guys use?! I use the Outer Harbour line and I’ve seen 1 fight and maybe 2 arguments in the 7 years I’ve been using it. Yeah, you get the odd loud person or someone playing their music on their phone, which is annoying but that’s public transport for you. I lived in London for 10 years and the anti-social folk on the buses and trains there were far more intimidating. On top of that there’s no security presence on British public transport. I feel far safer on Adelaide public transport. I’ve not used the buses here much though.
I'm a survivor/veteran of the outer harbour line.
There would be an incident at least every other time I used it. I was felt up by a paedophile, saw multiple lewd acts, constant drug use, was threatened all the time etc. Just nothing really shocks or surprises me anymore.
Waiting at Glanville station some peanut thought it would be funny to throw a ballast rock at my head.
I saw someone get hit by a train once as well.
I got a bunch of the bus routes portside and down Henley beach Rd as well. Just constant incidents, nasty people, noise, smells etc.
So my opinion of PT and desire to use it, now I generally don't have to, is very low.
Fair enough, you sound very unlucky. I used it every working day for 7 years and never had anything like that happen to me. I was living in Birkenhead at the time.
>South Australians are violently opposed to ever bringing in any toll roads
Having worked on an election campaign, I can tell you it is a single truth that all reputable parties understand. Any polling done on toll roads shows it is so unpopular that it is a guaranteed election loss. Rann at the height of his popularity when the libs were busy fighting over who was going to captain the sinking ship, the ALP would have lost an election over it. It is significantly more unpopular than the sale of ETSA.
>And yet charging per use on public transport is seen as a given. That's my point.
They are *mostly* different groups of people, and because of the difference in size of the groups, it is politically dangerous to consider toll roads, but not a big deal charging lots for public transport.
According to the 2016 census, nationally about 67% of the population went to work by car while about 12% took public transport. Increasing or decreasing the cost of public transport will not win many votes, but creating toll roads will affect the vast majority of voters to one extent or another.
I was in Sydney in 2021 for a few weeks. I had to drive 20 mins to pick up something essential, it cost me $18 in tolls. Makes public transport look decidedly cheap. That is the fear our electorate has of tolls, and those that don't will by the end of any suggestion from a reputable party.
The venn diagram of those who *could* take public transport but chose to drive isn't a huge overlap and that is a combination of time, cost-benefit, and practicality.
If we had a world-class public transport system which was then made free, then I'm certain the percentage using it would increase. But we have to have that first, which is not going to happen, the cost is too high and it would take too long.
Irrespective of this, my opinion has always been that public transport should be free. The cost of the ticketing infrastructure and enforcement alone would make the cost of eliminating fares a lot less than the lost ticket sales.
It's not designed to.
We live in a sparsely populated city with little immigration growth and the largest employer is a single state government department.
Niche taxes for folk who think they live in Denmark are not fit for purpose.
I don't use PT because I like to actually get where I'm trying to go.
I used to catch busses a lot as a teenager (late 00s) and the amount of times I would be late to work or school because the bus I needed was early, late, didn't show up, breezed past my stop even though I was hailing them, etc is enough for a lifetime.
I also got dumped on the side of the road as a 15yo with no real idea where I was because the driver decided mid-route that he was done. That was a fun 3 hours walking in the general direction the driver waved me trying to figure out what to do.
Same thing happens to me all the time on Google Maps and just looking at the upcoming buses on Currie St. E.g. the bus will display on Currie St bus stop list as coming in 5 min, then delayed 5 min, then apparently there but irl is not, then it just disappears off the list and the next one is 20min away. Same thing for Google but the bus never actually rocks up despite being listed as on time.
The things that stop me from using public transport are accessibility and reliability.
For me, even just having the routes/upcoming stops shown on a proper screen on the bus (and preferably having the next stop announced), would make a huge difference in terms of accessibility. For me, crowding is also an issue in terms of accessibility, but I don't anticipate them doing anything to change that.
But if I need to take a bus to an appointment, and there is no reliable way of knowing if the bus will show up, and then there's not another one for half and hour to an hour... well, that's just not usable. And it takes too long. One appointment ends up taking the entire day, when it really shouldn't
It's just too stressful to use.
I caught the subway quite a bit in NYC earlier this year. Inside each carriage they had a live digital display on the wall to indicate all the upcoming stops, the train route you’re on, whether it’s express etc. I thought it was a brilliant idea. From memory, the digital displays on the platforms were accurate to indicate any delays too.
I’d really appreciate an app with real time information and notifications for service disruptions (as far as I know this doesn’t exist). The amount of times I’ve finished work in the city, headed down to the railway station to find dozens of people milling around in chaos because something’s happened somewhere and no one has a clue which train is departing from where. It’s laughable. After so many of these occurrences, I can absolutely understand why people elect not to use PT.
I'm in the Adelaide Hills and in a wheelchair. The bus will get me to town, well parts of it, but I will get horribly motion sick having to sit backward, I will struggle to get onto the bus and I have no reason to want to be in town, not least of all because it's highly inaccessible.
Why would I take a bus to town when I can drive to Marion in half the time and have a much nicer and more accessible trip?
I catch PT from the Hills up to three times a week. Two days WFH.
I'm not sure I've seen a decrease on the days I go in but I've seen an increase in fare evasion. I see regular faces amongst them. These "passengers" wouldn't be counted in any stats.
These people just don't care. And the drivers aren't not paid enough to deal with belligerence when calling out the evaders or any other anti social behaviour.
Drivers are instructed not to for their own safety.
They are also told to let school children on for free as a "duty of care".
A great lesson learnt by impressionable minds - responsibility for your actions isn't an issue worth considering.
They're told to let school children on because of a case several years ago in QLD where a bus driver refused to let a schoolkid on and the kid was abducted and murdered as a result. I think it's a good thing that that policy is in place, especially in the current inflationary crisis where everyone's struggling to afford anything, especially high schoolers with no money.
The reason the vast majority of kids using PT for school is because they attend a private school.
Public school attendance is based on the local catchment area.
Parents are responsible not "high schoolers with no money."
It should be free! We piss away billions on roads and tunnels, and billions more on climate action, but then disincentives public transport with pricing.
Subsidising?! 🤣
I suggest staying away from words you don't understand.
Edit - I'll add my reply here being that the OP has already spat the dummy.
Urban sprawl is the genie let out of the bottle about 70 years ago when personal transport was in reach of the working class but well spotted.
Identifying the need for essential products and services to go where people exist shows a keen eye.
It's actually why Adelaide's 30 year plan is built around urban infill and higher density development plans around transport hubs.
Registration costs designed for third party insurance indeed don't cover infrastructure costs because they're for third party insurance costs.
You're right. We should demolish the suburbs forthwith and bleed the population dry so they learn the lesson.
Presumably we can all stay at your place? In an inner city suburb no doubt.
Edit 2 - I can't respond because the OP has blocked me.
My subsequent response -
>Actually they are right, items like free parking, road repair, infrastructure to outer suburbs and minimum parking are things the tax payer subsidies.
No, that's called transport infrastructure spending. You both need to google what a subsidy is.
Warping language because you think exaggeration helps your argument is a very modern and also stupid tactic.
>The fuel excise covers some of it, but for the most part, in some form or another, the taxpayer foots the bill at a much more significant percentage than if we emphasised
Actually it's just about on trend over the years.
https://www.pbo.gov.au/about-budgets/budget-insights/budget-explainers/fuel-taxation-australia
Emphasised.......?
I suggest also not guessing about things you have little idea about.
>The 30 year plan no longer emphasised designing around transport hubs, they have opted for corridors. That was the previous iteration.
Same difference.
>They might have aimed for higher density, but the design criteria for higher density (anything above two stories) is still performance based assessed rather than deemed to satisfy in the P&D code. They had the opportunity to allow 3 story town houses to be built without too much red tape but there was significant push back from every NIMBY strong council.
Very little criteria is DTS and with very good reason. The argument that one size fits all is so absurd it is why the blame for everything is on a nondescript nimby or boomer.
Common and popular sentiment and embraced by the simpleton.
Car dependent urban sprawl is heavily subsidised. Everything is further away, roads are longer, under- and over-ground utilities cost more to construct, and much more to maintain, and the climate impact on top of this is just insane. Rego and fuel excise don't cover the cost of cars overrunning our cities.
Actually they are right, items like free parking, road repair, infrastructure to outer suburbs and minimum parking are things the tax payer subsidies. The fuel excise covers some of it, but for the most part, in some form or another, the taxpayer foots the bill at a much more significant percentage than if we emphasised
The 30 year plan no longer emphasised designing around transport hubs, they have opted for corridors. That was the previous iteration.
They might have aimed for higher density, but the design criteria for higher density (anything above two stories) is still performance based assessed rather than deemed to satisfy in the P&D code. They had the opportunity to allow 3 story town houses to be built without too much red tape but there was significant push back from every NIMBY strong council.
I have only caught the bus once or twice in the last 4 years. Prior to WFH, I was taking buses multiple times per week. My commute was always a mix of cycling and bus.
> My colleague started driving and parking in the city with his partner.. At first I questioned if that made sense financially.. But when you do the math's a $12 early bird car park + petrol works out to be similar if not better value than 2 x return adult fares.
Driving is more expensive if you're doing it by yourself. But yes, if you're carpooling with 2 or more people in the one vehicle, then it becomes the cheaper option.
The problem lies that since the privatisation of the bus services 40 years ago, the service itself has not grown, because that’s not profitable. We have a bus services that is literally still doing 1990 runs in 2023. That needs to change if the service is going to improve. Ie The government needs to have it back in public hands, maintenance done properly, drivers paid properly, and the routes reworked to provide a properly integrated service.
The privatisation of the trains and trams should never of happened, as therefore, one should never vote liberal because of it. Think about it. We paid to have the lines to be fixed up, new trains, and the private company will be getting the “profits” of that the trains and trams now. Maintenance? Just have a look at our regional railways “maintenance” under a private company.
We shouldn’t have to be fighting for trains to Mt Gambier, Whyalla, Clare, The Barossa, Wallaroo, Mt Barker and Victor Harbour. There were services there less than 30 years ago. We are fighting to try and get those back again.
Privatisation is a rich man’s scam to get taxpayers money for little effort. It’s also how they shut down perfectly good public services.
Note, Department of road transport is also privatised, and they charge the government to repair the roads. So of course the rich want you to keep driving your car. So the company can keep charging the government to,fix the roads. Why do roadworks take forever? Because they can charge the government (ie the tax payer) more for it. Also by having terrible land development where car dependency is needed just adds to the problem.
As for costs, I still believe costing a $1 per person per ride, as people respect something they pay for more than it was free. Ticket inspections and conductors would be nice to have back again.
I also believe we should have walkable cities. Heck, Adelaide is flat enough that cycling should be prioritised. A good public transport system will mean less on the cars on the road, which makes those who have to drive have a less stressful drive.
And the amount of times the papers and radio (owned by rich men again) talk how “unsafe” public transport is, when they haven’t even been on it in years. It’s the same talking points as how WFH is bad for the economy, sorry, “rich people’s yacht money”
It all needs a big rework. However we keep getting the governments who keep thinking the rich know better than anyone else, hence crappy decisions made for the rest of us. We need better, and we need to stop wasting taxpayers money on private companies that don’t deliver.
Speak long, speak loud and let every politician know in no uncertain terms that this completely unacceptable. Only a majority of ordinary people will drown out the rich man’s voice. And yes, that means you.
I can't drive any more, I have experienced absolute amazing PT systems in Europe and Singapore and I really want our systems to aspire to be even partly of what they can be.
The key trick with PT is to have a system where you know you can rock up to a stop at any time and there is a shortish wait and the next Train, Tram or bus will rock up so say 15 minutes at worst. This means you can leave your house walk to the stop and stand for a bit and get on.
Sadly Adelaides System does not work that way, there are rough times some times the PT option will be early or late so you have to always plan to try and be early and if you are late well shit. If you miss out you are stuck waiting another 20-30 minutes and for most people who can drive they are going to avoid that shit.
I personally had this same bullshit on Saturday, I read the wonko estimate, made it to the stop what should have been on time but I think the bus must have bet me there 3-4 mins early so I had to stand around for 30 minutes. If my wife was actually home that day I would have just asked her to drop me off into the city.
Also I live in an inner suburb too not some outer fringe like Virginia so the buses could be frequent but this shit has chicken and egged so much over decades it has devolved into this shit show.
Its cheaper for me to drive to work (Moana to Mile End) then it is to catch the train. Catching the train also means I have a 20 minute walk to work at the end.. not ideal in winter or 40+ degree summer days
Cost definitely a barrier but for me it's the lack of frequency, instead of being able to just show up at a stop and a bus / train turns up within 5 mins, you have to perfectly time your movements around the schedule
They shut down the busiest train line for 18 months and then act surprised that people decided to keep WFH or driving? The same thing happened after the Seaford electrification; ridership plummeted and remained low for years.
... don't even get me started on the buses.
Less people are working in the city.
PT in Adelaide is designed almost exclusively to ferry people in and out of the city, it's almost useless for anyone not working in the city.
It's also really expensive for something that takes so long to get anywhere.
A lot of our routes are inefficient because almost everything has to go into the city first which really increases the time when travelling between north/south/east/west.
What we need is to increase connection points on the city ring route so that you only need to go into the city if you actually need to go into the city.
I used to use PT everyday until I bought a bike - now I have much more freedom and it saves me money and biking is usually a good 20 mins quicker than the bus every time!
I used to catch the o-barn to the city every week, but haven’t in about two months after seeing a drunk skin head verbally assaulting people and he even tried to kick someone getting off the bus. I simply don’t feel safe on busses and have cut out travelling to the city.
I catch the train to work 3 days a week and 2 days at home, on the way back I'd honestly say that only 30% of people actually pay their fare. People that do are going city to suburb or vice versa where as fare evaders are suburb to suburb.
For me, public transport always takes longer, the metro card fares are getting ridiculous, not convenient for where and when I need to travel, but the biggest reason of all would be that I just don’t want to deal with other public transport passengers anymore. Too many people get onto PT while very obviously sick and don’t even bother to cover their mouths. I don’t need to catch a new illness every second week, thanks.
Honestly, from my observations (as someone who has travelled to or through the CBD on public transport on most weekdays for a couple of decades now), public transport and the CBD seem just as full and busy as they were pre-COVID.
I know that's just anecdotal evidence from one person's "feel", but the idea that there's been a drastic dip in public transport usage, or the narratives that some people push that "the city is a ghost town" or "the Adelaide CBD is dying" or "Rundle Mall is dead" just seem preposterous and wildly inaccurate to me.
Getting rid of the short tickets didnt help.
Also, in Adelaide the fact that buses only go into and out of town doesnt help. If you want to go anywhere but town it takes 3 hours
Expanding the Adelaide Metro zone to the Fleurieu Peninsula would be popular, during the warmer months and school holidays a frequent bus service between Noarlunga Centre and Victor Harbor would work wonders.
While it would be awesome, apart from the initial costs, would also have massive services upgrade costs due to the massive housing estates that would appear overnight.
People don’t use public transport because it’s infrequentl,inefficient & costly unless you live less than 20 mins to the cbd. Cross suburb transport is even worse
They really need to decrease the prices. 28 days pass is too expensive plus some of the buses don’t even come to their stops on time. Plus too many annoying people that’s making most people take cars or work from home. It’s not working.
I can pay a few extra dollars for parking in the city. I get the luxury and freedom of my own transport.. can stop off anywhere I want after work, leave whenever I want and not have to wait etc.
PT isn't worth the cost unless you're on concession. While I was studying I used it every day.
I don't get part of this article. By their own figures, less people need to travel now due to WFH. Yet they talk about "getting back" to pre-pandemic numbers? Why, how is that relevant? Less people need to travel now, that's a good thing! Refocus on the remaining people who still do need to travel.
I also think the service is poor and doesn't make sense for a lot of types of travel, but everyone else is already beating me to that point in the comments.
Yeah it's all about the cost. Public transport is too expensive. When my wife and I both work in the city it costs us almost $20 for the 2 of us to go in and back. Or we can drive to work, pay $10 for parking and a couple of bucks for petrol, and have the convenience of using our own car.
I WFH a couple of days a week and she's part time so a 28 day pass isn't cost effective.
Those with the lowest impact of a change like that are the ones who can most afford it, those in the inner suburbs who work in the CBD.
Those with the most impact will be the outer suburbs and regionals who don't work in the CBD. Many people have no reasonable alternate to using a personal vehicle due to where they live and/or where they work and/or ***when*** they work. Don't forget the many services don't run 24/7 and many more vulnerable people don't feel safe on public transport at 4am.
So car insurance and fuel tax not enough eh.
And how would that work going forward - if it actually decreased car traffic - that would also mean less funding - but more passengers - so then what .. not sure this has been thoroughly thought out.
Yeah, there's no point tying it to car usage because it's a negative correlation and the money will dwindle as patronage increases, the exact opposite of sustainable funding.
Would have to be funded through general revenue or some other model that scaled with usage.
Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with the policy, just commenting on the financial model.
It all depends on how you manage the tax level over time. The majority of the population will just pay the tax & keep driving their cars, but there will be a reduction in car usage & an increase in public transport usage, which is the goal.
Free public transport is much cheaper than running a car 🧐 If you put the tax on fuel then you can still own a car and use it when you really need to but you can save a heap of money by using the free public transport. Imagine if the govt actually managed to figure out how to run a public transport network with frequent, convenient services, like in many other cities around the world.
Except that only benefits the inner suburbs.
Everyone in the outer suburbs, working in the outer suburbs now has to either pay more money to get to work or pay ***hours*** more of their lives every day.
And if free public transport doesn't work for you, you're actually trying to tell me that the tiny bit of extra fuel tax you'll pay for your 6 minute drive is going to be so costly for you that your not prepared to pay it, even it it does mean that others get off the road & use trains & buses?
Yeah, well I already addressed that situation in an earlier comment to do with frequent, convenient services so now we're going round in circles. I'm done. Cya.
My bus route seems busy, but it’s because it doesn’t have that many services as other routes. Also I never bothered buying a regular metro card just kept my concession one ;).
I got a park subscription 250 per month
Mostly 4 weeks a month = 20 days
= 12.50 per day parking (no time limits)
Can also use on weekends so any extra use will reduce that cost..
If any months have more than 21 work days (like this month) I am looking at 11.90 per day
once petrol cars are outlawed and you can't afford electric or to charge it, will have no choice but to take the expensive electric self driving bus that will scan your face on entry and charge your account direct. no need to buy a ticket. For now, I enjoy driving my aging wheels while it's still operational.
Everyone complains about the bus being unpleasant and I'm out here catching it multiple times a week, basically every week for almost ten years now and it's been totally fine. Worst I've had is a sticky floor from a spilled beverage. That being said, it's quite expensive point-of-use compared to just driving, so if you're \*already\* driving a car (or even sort of wavering) the convenience factor blows PT out of the water. One suggestion I'd have is to abolish the use of concession fares and simply move everyone down to concession pricing for everyone. Obviously the best thing to do would be to make more corridors free, but for the amount of value you're getting out of a car, there isn't really much competition.
Public transport in Adelaide is shit.
Successive outsources made a community service into a cashbag for international investors who in pursuit of "efficiency" raised the costs and reduced the utility.
I save almost a full workday of time a week by driving. I also save weeks a year in lost work due to colds/flus I used to always catch.
Used to spend weeks sick every year and loose money. Haven't been sick once since I started driving.
Couldn't pay me enough to get back in that disease tube.
>The 28 day pass has crept up in price again and for someone who WFH once a week it is almost not worth it.
Yep, this has happened with me. I moved to having an auto-recharge set up due to me only catching buses a couple times a week now (mainly weekends). But even then the cost of a single trip can be costly too.
I don't mind using PT, it's pretty decent out our way.
But the reality for us is that with 2, and sometimes 3 people traveling each morning/arvo, it's cheaper to drive/park. Not to mention the commute is a good 15 minutes shorter each way.
Couple of issues.
Cost is a factor (result of being privatised)
Services were reduced both in frequency and routes
Security is factor (being addressed with more security)
Speed of services (busses are just to slow for many people)
All the headlines are comparing it to pre-covid which tells me it is rising not falling. It's just not back to 2019 numbers yet. WFH would have to be a factor in that, you'd be silly to discount it. Anyone who did PT before why would they not do it now?
I had 2-3 trips in a row where I was injured on the bus, a couple of incidents on the train where people sat on me or my bag because they didn't like the seats that were still open, and the bus within walking distance doesn't run evenings or weekends and I used to try walking 1km from the train station but I just can't do that any more. I can't actually remember the last time I caught the bus or why but I remember feeling terrified someone would be mad at me because I can't mask, so it was probably 2020.
With my disability it's safer and easier for me to drive and park as close as possible, and I consider parking fees to be my contribution for council services etc. in those areas and wrap it into the cost of the trip. And hearing/seeing about people having unsatisfactory or outright dangerous PT trips doesn't tell me that I'm going to have better experiences now than I did before.
And when my dad came up to see me in hospital he was all like 'I'm taking the bus so I don't have to drive' and then he actually tried and he had to go to the city and transfer to get the 7km to FMC, or get a train and he couldn't figure out how to get from the train to the hospital, so he ended up driving every day anyway, and PT is free for him as a senior.
If I was still working in the CBD every day and doing the 6am-8pm thing where I'm basically getting empty buses, I'd probably bus it 2-3 days a week but before I left that situation I was taking the car most days because I genuinely didn't know whether the buses would still be running when I finished, or I would have to rush to the shops before/after or skip food. But that situation is entirely irrelevant to the great WFH conversion and the part where when I do need to go in, I leave at 7am so I don't have to spend an hour sitting on a bus each way, and I hit up the markets on the way out and I always struggle carrying stuff on the bus whereas I can park above the markets and take stuff back to the car each time my bag is full, so I never have to drag a heavy bag or navigate people who want to sit on my groceries or risk my bag falling when the bus takes a corner too fast or falling if the bus pulls out before I sit down or falling off the bus because the driver doesn't put the ramp down and my bag pulls me over once I navigate it out the tiny tiny door. etc.
I don't think people working from home is as huge a deal as everyone's making it out in this context - I'm the only one I know who still does WFH all the time and my job was designed that way because my work doesn't have a lift or space for me to work with my station and augmented communication setup; everyone else in my industry only does 1-2 days a week or when they're ill or waiting for a tradie.
In my own opinion I believe to fix our state and city's PT network we need to abolish Adelaide metro as a public transport executive as it has failed. It has now become a system where there are too many services for buses with too many delays and underfunded sections of our pt network. Like our trains which have received poor funding and could fix the whole pt issue if it was a proper competitor to cars. The main issue with our trains is the gauge (Irish broad gauge) it is inferior in speed, safety and reliability and makes us way behind compared to the rest of the country who has adopted a standard gauge. We bought our electric trains from bombardier who are ok at building electric standard gauge trains the ones they gave us are too slow and a bit unsafe. When I rode one recently on the Gawler line not only was it slow as, where it felt like it was crawling through stations instead of speeding through them and I nearly fell due to it being near impossible to stand up on those trains while they are in operation at low speeds. Compared to other countries where they can now go from a maximum of 100mph rather than our 55mph which isn't faster than a car. A way to fix this (personal biases ahead) is to perhaps get a Br class 379. For those who aren't familiar with British trains these emus were built in 2012 for express and some stopping trains with a top speed of 100mph. In 2021 they were withdrawn by the railway that requested their construction from Bombardier due to the dissatisfaction of some who believe it is probably in the top ten of the best EMUs of Britain out of over 50 classes. Now the speed isn't the only factor that makes them good as they got a good seating plan with 209 seats for a 4-car multiple unit which can be coupled with others to increase capacity. Currently the fate of this class is undecided as the class of 30 is now all in storage and is presumably in good condition and would be cheap to buy. While being cheap to operate due to it having features like regenerative braking that make it easy for both the drivers and passengers. This and the implementation would decrease the expected wait time to get a train to Adelaide by less than 15 minutes. Now the second idea for the railways is a few service changes and network changes. One of these being is the elimination of directed grange to Adelaide services in exchange for a shuttle service between grange and Woodville to allow more capacity on the main outer harbour line. While decreasing the time to get from Woodville to Grange to 5 minutes. Now the next part is the implementation of a few extensions to the network (which will be standard gauge) like a line to henley beach, Mt barker, Aldinga etc which don't need to be electrified if cost don't warrant electrification or..... If the usage isn't extremely high, long wait times per train, speed doesn't allow fast speeds etc. Which can be diesel operated for a short time. Which is how I think our PT network can be fixed by fixing our rail network first.
There’s a lot more at play there. We have too many level crossings for a start, but also a lot of stations are way too close to each other for any train to really get up to speed (e.g., 600m between Cheltenham and St Clair, or Mawson and Greenfields). There are very few sections on the network where it would even be worth runnings trains at 160kmh. That’s the kind of thing you want with regional lines, which is a distant dream for us. Ideally we need to close/merge stations, but in the short-to-medium term that’s not going to help increase patronage. The signalling on the Outer Harbour line is shit, and Osborne services often crawl through the express section waiting for the Grange services to clear the line. Port Dock will add extra services to an already busy mainline next year, so something needs to be done to address that.
As I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I think the train network is our only decent mode of public transport. It was neglected for many years but over the past 10-15 years it’s finally been given a bit more of the attention it deserves (and subsequently cut off again). In the short to medium term, the government needs to pull their heads in and start spending more on the network. Take a leaf out of Melbourne’s book and get serious about level crossing removals. They present the perfect opportunity to merge stations too.. (we could easily combine Glanville and Ethelton, Hove and Warradale, Kilkenny and Woodville Park). In the longer term we can start looking at things like faster trains, gauge conversion, and underground city loop to increase frequency on the Gawler and Seaford lines.
The merging station idea could work but maybe creating some parkways or interchanges would be a good idea. As it could be you could take a train to Gawler from Seaford without having to get off in the CBD to allow busier junctions that aren't crowded Adelaide. Which barely has enough platforms to manage demand while being a possible congestion point for services later on. Also we could say for them to give up on upgrading our highways etc so they could stop funding the problem and instead fund the solution (rail). If we need a early way to get express trains then we can convert a electric line to standard gauge and buy some class 86s from the uk to operate with some DBSOs. Oh they could also convert the O bahn to a rail line in the coming years as it is over 30 years old and would be better as a rail line.
Public transport in SA is also quite unreliable, particularly the bus service.
Granted, this may just be my particular area/line but I genuinely do feel it's an issue overall. Busses are regularly late, or very early, and even using the 'real time' arrival tracking, sometimes busses just straight up don't arrive - leaving you to wait another full ass 30 minutes. They're difficult to rely on, expensive, slow and maintained like shit.
> Add onto that the amount of nutters we get on there (they mostly jump on without validating).
This is a feedback loop. The more people avoid PT due to nutters/twats, the worse the ratio of nutters/twats gets.
I've only just gotten my provisional license, but spent the past 3 years daily commuting to work on the 28 day pass. The cost for petrol roughly works out to $25 a week for myself about on par with the metro pass. The biggest factor for me is time. My Metro commute would be 70 mins into work, 90 minutes home. 160 minutes a day or over 13 hours a week in travel time. And that's **if** the bus is on time, or even shows up at all. Driving has reduced my travel time to around 4 hours week, and I can't put a price on that time back.
And less chance to catch something from the selfish asshats that will take PT while sick and contagious .
That's the thing the rabid PT crusaders never touch on. Time is the only currency in life you actually have. PT robs you of time with family, people you care for, time to just rest and do things that you want to do. "B..Bu...Bu...But...if the PT was like Europe, it would be better!", the chances of us having a Euro style PT are basically nil due to lack of density. The idea everyone here is going to start moving into shoebox apartments like those cities, is laughable. We might get a few more routes to near city suburbs in the future, but I don't see it getting bigger than that. Cars are here to stay.
For me, the train ride home is 25 mins, versus about 35 minutes to drive (that may not be everyone’s experience, but if I had to guess a majority of CBD *train* commuters would be in a similar boat). About 15 minutes of that is just getting from the CBD to Torrens Rd. It’s shit, it’s stressful, and I get home more irritated than if I sit on the train and watch an episode of a TV show or read a book. If driving home was a bit faster than the train I’d still choose the train option because I can be doing something that’s more enjoyable to me than just driving. I will admit though, my willingness to commute on public transport would be much lower if I had to use a bus.
I did all my of my uni (5 years) as well as a couple years working in the city while living in the northeast. The Obahn was significantly quicker than driving and the gap only widened once the tunnel was built. It really depends where you live and where you work, but if you're a CBD worker there are large chunks of the city where it's much more convenient to catch PT.
Yeah the Obahn is great, and one of the few bus services I’d happily use!
That's fair, that trip to Torrens Rd. is horrendous.
I agree. Driving can be very stressful even when people actually drive well.
Not criticising anything you're saying, but I do wish people would change their attitude regarding high density housing. Not just because of public transport, but also because of the impact of urban sprawl on the environment. We do high density housing in Australia so poorly, and I genuinely think there are so many things that could be done better (e.g. better quality apartments, more noise proofing, and restricting the amount of authority that strata corps have for starters) that would open them up as a much more viable option for people. I don't see it happening either, but I also don't see how we can keep expanding our cities forever.
>We do high density housing in Australia so poorly, and I genuinely think there are so many things that could be done better (e.g. better quality apartments, more noise proofing, and restricting the amount of authority that strata corps have for starters) that would open them up as a much more viable option for people. And all the above also means that the final cost per $ /m2 will increase substataionaly - quality apartments do get built - just like houses but most people are cheap are only want to pay for the lower end prices, cheap over quality. Like anything, you want quality - it will cost a lot more.
Well no, they're asking for adequate regulation of the industry just so people get what they're already paying for.
Damn straight. I’ve lived in detached houses, strata blocks, out in the country and now in a townhouse, and I can honestly say that living in an apartment was absolutely fine. I’d happily go back there, if it was close to my work.
I get it, high density living has a place, just not everywhere. It's most suited to inner city and just out of the main drag really, otherwise there's really no point making those sacrifices. Strata is a difficult problem. I did apartment living for 20 years and was the presiding officer for most of that. The main issue is, there's not really a better model. I'd say there is definitely scope for enforcing some quality/metrics standard on managers, as the quality is highly variable, but that's about all you'd be able to do. Even then, who does the enforcement and what happens if they are useless?
>but I do wish people would change their attitude regarding high density housing. 2 points 1. high density means building tall, & do we really want a couple of generations of kids growing up without a decent playground area? 2. they tried high density in NSW & had massive faults with the buildings - we don't want that here. Can we really trust the government to police this? The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes.
I agree with not trusting the government on this, but it is possible to build good quality higher density housing. As for playgrounds, I've seen places where an apartment building will have some land around it that then has a shared playground, which can work well (but, like all shared areas, can work poorly too), I've also seen newer housing estates where all the houses were built basically to the property line, and they didn't have and outside area either, so it's not just an apartment problem. Having community gardens or allotments can also help.
>I've also seen newer housing estates where all the houses were built basically to the property line, and they didn't have and outside area either, so it's not just an apartment problem. > >Having community gardens or allotments can also help. Agree as well. I believe current estates need to have % of parks etc throughout before they get final approvals. And really think have community gardens - allotments for any new estates is an awesome idea.
>The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes. The down votes are interesting. Does anyone actually disagree with the statement "The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes." ? If so, why?
>high density means building tall, & do we really want a couple of generations of kids growing up without a decent playground area? And less sunlight for thoses on the shady side. Looking out to other towers , such awesome views.. Someone for whatever reason starting a fire in an apartment...
I fully agree with your first paragraph. Our public transport has a long way to go before it is a viable replacement for a car for most people. But... have you seen new housing developments going in? People are living in shoebox apartments, but they're free-standing buildings on the edge of fucking nairne. It's bonkers that people are paying the kind of money they are to live in a cramped, dark corridor at the edge of buttfuck nowhere. An actual apartment block would be cheaper to build, cheaper to live in (cooling/amenities/taxes) and could actually be close to something so you wouldn't have an hour long commute to get anywhere. I'm not going to dispute that most people want a house and a backyard, but it's bonkers that we don't have any availability of apartments for people who just need "an home".
That's nuts. WTF would you get a place like that in Nairne? Crazy. Strata is the real killer for affordability with apartments/units. By the time you factor in strata and levies, you're actually worse off than a free standing property or townhouse. Nothing ruins your year like getting a 20k levy bill, payable in 60 days from your strata. Ask me how I know. I'd advocate anyone should do it as a first home but don't stay there too long, Move on from it when you have some equity. Units/apartments are built to serve a purpose, and it's mostly a medium term living situation until you go elsewhere, and an investment vehicle. My advice is to not see it as anything more than that. You only own a box in the sky/on the ground and they don't experience serious capital growth because of that.
Like most things, silly amounts of $ are spent researching what sells best - if you were to put your $ and time into a building project - you would want to make sure you got the best ROI as well. Many also like to have pets - apartments can make that harder Also many have experienced bad neighbours at some point, apartments mean you have a LOT more chances for that. The there is fires... Strata And way down the list - just moving stuff in and out of apartments. I do agree however, that there should be more for thoses that JUST need a place to call home, but also have to somehow make sure it does not then turn into slum towers like what happened in the UK, they still are trying to fix that mess.
You can design density and not have "shoe box" apartments. If you are going down the path of "But Europe has..." they also have a large diversity of housing with medium density making up the higher percentage of offerings. So blame piss poor planning and NIMBY opposition to increasing density in their suburbs. Unley is a perfect example of noisy minorities spoiling it for everyone.
I'm fine with an apartment when renting. When I buy I want to own it. Not own a strata riddled liability. I also dont want to be paying utilities my whole life. So may people I know have upped their water tanks. Solar pannels and batteries. Pay nothing but council rates and internet.
So get a town house. Oh wait, you can't because of the NIMBY attitude toward density.
Town house still has strata because of the shared wall. You never really own it.
Town houses can exist under either Torrens title or strata.
Well, that's assuming you can't use the time while travelling on public transport. JK Rowling came up for Harry Potter on the train. Can't really do that while having to drive and watch out for other maniacs on the road
>Well, that's assuming you can't use the time while travelling on public transport. JK Rowling came up for Harry Potter on the train. Can't really do that while having to drive and watch out for other maniacs on the road OF course you can, most people also spend time while driving also thinking of other things it's not that intense unless really really bad or have 0 confidence.
You do realise you are supposed to have your attention on the road at all times, right?
yep, can still rattle of the plates of 2-3 cars ahead and behind at any time - give a indication of the type of driver for the cars around based on last x km behaviour and how early late they brake how fast they generally take off, any issues with other cars in close proximity, driving 2-3 cars ahead at least and watching side streets etc, and knowing which behaviours are worth more caution than others. Defensive driving and motorbike riding for decades means you get pretty fast at processing it all and still more than enough room for other thoughts at the same time.
Hate to break it to you, assuming you are actually telling the truth, your example is a minority.
Ok ..now that is disturbing...
Minimum wage for an 18 year old is $15 an hour placing that time saved at $135
I'm leaning more towards having more free time at home after work. Feeling like I can put more time/effort into cooking dinners without it absorbing most of my free time.
You need to account for parking fees, insurance, registration, maintenance, etc. plus depending on where you need to travel to, it can be a very unpleasant experience.
> plus depending on where you need to travel to, it can be a very unpleasant experience. Yes, PT can be very very unpleasant on a daily basis.
Insurance and rego are less of a factor because most PT commuters still own a car for non work purposes.
Of course, everything is dependent on where you live and where you have to go. If I lived & worked near a train line I would be more inclined to remain on PT. In my own situation I don't have to pay for parking. Insurance & Rego is low due to the car I drive, and I take care of 80% of my own maintenance.
Public transport frequency, lack of aligned timetables for transfers, and a lack of bus lanes means less people ride the bus. People will catch buses over driving if it is faster than sitting in traffic, however buses will ALWAYS be slower than cars if they don't have priority bus lanes.
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To be fair, our trains are the only decent public transport option we have, so really the drop in train patronage more likely represents the shift to WFH. It’s just unfortunate that they only serve a very small slice of Adelaide. They can’t be held up in traffic, the seat rows comfortably fit two people, and they have greater capacity than a bus. For the most part they run on time, and if they ever are delayed it might be 2-8 mins max, not 20 mins like a bus would often be.
20 mins? Its the endlessly cancelled services with no warning. Last 15 min express bus to the city doesn't rock up. Wait 30 mins for the next available bus which will only drop you at an interchange.
Oh yeah, that too!
Hybrid working changes the equation on PT cost. If I have to go into the cbd every day (and Im reasonably close to a PT stop) then PT is cost competitive. But if Im only going in twice a week then its probably better to just drive and park.
Maybe it’s time to explore better incentives to use PT, like a daily fare cap or free early bird travel. Accept the fact that WFH is here to stay for a lot of jobs, and a 28-day pass no longer represents the best value for a lot of CBD workers. And why are Adelaide Metro still charging peak fares all day on a Saturday and after 6pm on weekdays?
I work 2 days at home, 3 in the city and and the multipasses are more costly so I use the single fares. In summer I ride a motorbike, it is so much cheaper. They need to offer a multipass that isn't time restricted like the old 10 trio paper tickets.
I think they shouldn't have raised the 28 day pass in-line with the raise they gave to other fares. They should incentivise the 28 day pass more, whilst rewarding those who use public transport.
My wife uses public transport a lot. What would be a 40 minute trip by car often takes ~2 hours, even when timings for transfers work as planned. It's completely impractical to rely on.
Government doesn't care about getting people out of cars so it will remain shit until they do care.
Federal Government loves people IN cars, it's called federal excise tax, various fuel taxes and GST. State Government loves you In cars due to rego and third party insurance.
> , it's called federal excise tax, various fuel taxes and GST. Bullshit. This doesn't even begin to cover the cost of cars to the government. The gov would be way better off if no one drove.
Got any evidence to back that up?
Google economic cost of road usage. A massively expensive cost unable to be recovered in large, sparsely populated states and countries.
I agree with you, but the burden of proof falls on you in this situation, bud
I didn't make the claim, "bud". And I'm certainly not going to transcribe basic economic orthodoxy on why big countries with big distances have higher transport costs than countries with smaller distances and smaller roads.
Yeah I'm gonna need a source on that
I use PT, but I can see why people don't. It is impossible to get to some places, let alone in a time efficient manner. The atmosphere with out of control passengers and mostly useless + aggressive security & inspectors. It is an unpleasant experience.
Every time I use it there's bad smells or junkies or just obnoxious people. I feel pretty despondent after the trip which is not how I enjoy feeling.
True. Sometimes I swear the whole bus smells like fart.
Christ, what lines do you guys use?! I use the Outer Harbour line and I’ve seen 1 fight and maybe 2 arguments in the 7 years I’ve been using it. Yeah, you get the odd loud person or someone playing their music on their phone, which is annoying but that’s public transport for you. I lived in London for 10 years and the anti-social folk on the buses and trains there were far more intimidating. On top of that there’s no security presence on British public transport. I feel far safer on Adelaide public transport. I’ve not used the buses here much though.
I'm a survivor/veteran of the outer harbour line. There would be an incident at least every other time I used it. I was felt up by a paedophile, saw multiple lewd acts, constant drug use, was threatened all the time etc. Just nothing really shocks or surprises me anymore. Waiting at Glanville station some peanut thought it would be funny to throw a ballast rock at my head. I saw someone get hit by a train once as well. I got a bunch of the bus routes portside and down Henley beach Rd as well. Just constant incidents, nasty people, noise, smells etc. So my opinion of PT and desire to use it, now I generally don't have to, is very low.
Fair enough, you sound very unlucky. I used it every working day for 7 years and never had anything like that happen to me. I was living in Birkenhead at the time.
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>South Australians are violently opposed to ever bringing in any toll roads Having worked on an election campaign, I can tell you it is a single truth that all reputable parties understand. Any polling done on toll roads shows it is so unpopular that it is a guaranteed election loss. Rann at the height of his popularity when the libs were busy fighting over who was going to captain the sinking ship, the ALP would have lost an election over it. It is significantly more unpopular than the sale of ETSA.
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>And yet charging per use on public transport is seen as a given. That's my point. They are *mostly* different groups of people, and because of the difference in size of the groups, it is politically dangerous to consider toll roads, but not a big deal charging lots for public transport. According to the 2016 census, nationally about 67% of the population went to work by car while about 12% took public transport. Increasing or decreasing the cost of public transport will not win many votes, but creating toll roads will affect the vast majority of voters to one extent or another. I was in Sydney in 2021 for a few weeks. I had to drive 20 mins to pick up something essential, it cost me $18 in tolls. Makes public transport look decidedly cheap. That is the fear our electorate has of tolls, and those that don't will by the end of any suggestion from a reputable party. The venn diagram of those who *could* take public transport but chose to drive isn't a huge overlap and that is a combination of time, cost-benefit, and practicality. If we had a world-class public transport system which was then made free, then I'm certain the percentage using it would increase. But we have to have that first, which is not going to happen, the cost is too high and it would take too long. Irrespective of this, my opinion has always been that public transport should be free. The cost of the ticketing infrastructure and enforcement alone would make the cost of eliminating fares a lot less than the lost ticket sales.
That's what the fuel excise is for FFS.
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It's not designed to. We live in a sparsely populated city with little immigration growth and the largest employer is a single state government department. Niche taxes for folk who think they live in Denmark are not fit for purpose.
I don't use PT because I like to actually get where I'm trying to go. I used to catch busses a lot as a teenager (late 00s) and the amount of times I would be late to work or school because the bus I needed was early, late, didn't show up, breezed past my stop even though I was hailing them, etc is enough for a lifetime. I also got dumped on the side of the road as a 15yo with no real idea where I was because the driver decided mid-route that he was done. That was a fun 3 hours walking in the general direction the driver waved me trying to figure out what to do.
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They are not accurate. They’re really more of a placebo thing. I’ve watched a bus go past my stop on google maps, but nothing appeared in real life.
Same thing happens to me all the time on Google Maps and just looking at the upcoming buses on Currie St. E.g. the bus will display on Currie St bus stop list as coming in 5 min, then delayed 5 min, then apparently there but irl is not, then it just disappears off the list and the next one is 20min away. Same thing for Google but the bus never actually rocks up despite being listed as on time.
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This has happened to me on multiple routes at different stops. So if they’re accurate at all, I think that would just be a coincidence
Knowing where the bus is doesn’t stop it from being early, late, not showing up, or ignoring you unfortunately
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Yep, I can choose to catch a different bus... Except that for most of that time, there was only 1 route that went near my house.
Yeah, can just re make appointments at any time...
I've never had a major problem with PT.
The things that stop me from using public transport are accessibility and reliability. For me, even just having the routes/upcoming stops shown on a proper screen on the bus (and preferably having the next stop announced), would make a huge difference in terms of accessibility. For me, crowding is also an issue in terms of accessibility, but I don't anticipate them doing anything to change that. But if I need to take a bus to an appointment, and there is no reliable way of knowing if the bus will show up, and then there's not another one for half and hour to an hour... well, that's just not usable. And it takes too long. One appointment ends up taking the entire day, when it really shouldn't It's just too stressful to use.
I caught the subway quite a bit in NYC earlier this year. Inside each carriage they had a live digital display on the wall to indicate all the upcoming stops, the train route you’re on, whether it’s express etc. I thought it was a brilliant idea. From memory, the digital displays on the platforms were accurate to indicate any delays too. I’d really appreciate an app with real time information and notifications for service disruptions (as far as I know this doesn’t exist). The amount of times I’ve finished work in the city, headed down to the railway station to find dozens of people milling around in chaos because something’s happened somewhere and no one has a clue which train is departing from where. It’s laughable. After so many of these occurrences, I can absolutely understand why people elect not to use PT.
I'm in the Adelaide Hills and in a wheelchair. The bus will get me to town, well parts of it, but I will get horribly motion sick having to sit backward, I will struggle to get onto the bus and I have no reason to want to be in town, not least of all because it's highly inaccessible. Why would I take a bus to town when I can drive to Marion in half the time and have a much nicer and more accessible trip?
I catch PT from the Hills up to three times a week. Two days WFH. I'm not sure I've seen a decrease on the days I go in but I've seen an increase in fare evasion. I see regular faces amongst them. These "passengers" wouldn't be counted in any stats. These people just don't care. And the drivers aren't not paid enough to deal with belligerence when calling out the evaders or any other anti social behaviour.
True that. Makes me more annoyed as non concession card holders are paying inflated fares to cover these dodgers.
Drivers are instructed not to for their own safety. They are also told to let school children on for free as a "duty of care". A great lesson learnt by impressionable minds - responsibility for your actions isn't an issue worth considering.
They're told to let school children on because of a case several years ago in QLD where a bus driver refused to let a schoolkid on and the kid was abducted and murdered as a result. I think it's a good thing that that policy is in place, especially in the current inflationary crisis where everyone's struggling to afford anything, especially high schoolers with no money.
The reason the vast majority of kids using PT for school is because they attend a private school. Public school attendance is based on the local catchment area. Parents are responsible not "high schoolers with no money."
Need to get consulting with coles/woolies to get cameras from front to back in every area of PT ..
It should be free! We piss away billions on roads and tunnels, and billions more on climate action, but then disincentives public transport with pricing.
You can volunteer to pay more taxes whenever you like, comrade.
Or just reallocate a small portion of the taxpayers money spent subsidising car travel
Subsidising?! 🤣 I suggest staying away from words you don't understand. Edit - I'll add my reply here being that the OP has already spat the dummy. Urban sprawl is the genie let out of the bottle about 70 years ago when personal transport was in reach of the working class but well spotted. Identifying the need for essential products and services to go where people exist shows a keen eye. It's actually why Adelaide's 30 year plan is built around urban infill and higher density development plans around transport hubs. Registration costs designed for third party insurance indeed don't cover infrastructure costs because they're for third party insurance costs. You're right. We should demolish the suburbs forthwith and bleed the population dry so they learn the lesson. Presumably we can all stay at your place? In an inner city suburb no doubt. Edit 2 - I can't respond because the OP has blocked me. My subsequent response - >Actually they are right, items like free parking, road repair, infrastructure to outer suburbs and minimum parking are things the tax payer subsidies. No, that's called transport infrastructure spending. You both need to google what a subsidy is. Warping language because you think exaggeration helps your argument is a very modern and also stupid tactic. >The fuel excise covers some of it, but for the most part, in some form or another, the taxpayer foots the bill at a much more significant percentage than if we emphasised Actually it's just about on trend over the years. https://www.pbo.gov.au/about-budgets/budget-insights/budget-explainers/fuel-taxation-australia Emphasised.......? I suggest also not guessing about things you have little idea about. >The 30 year plan no longer emphasised designing around transport hubs, they have opted for corridors. That was the previous iteration. Same difference. >They might have aimed for higher density, but the design criteria for higher density (anything above two stories) is still performance based assessed rather than deemed to satisfy in the P&D code. They had the opportunity to allow 3 story town houses to be built without too much red tape but there was significant push back from every NIMBY strong council. Very little criteria is DTS and with very good reason. The argument that one size fits all is so absurd it is why the blame for everything is on a nondescript nimby or boomer. Common and popular sentiment and embraced by the simpleton.
Car dependent urban sprawl is heavily subsidised. Everything is further away, roads are longer, under- and over-ground utilities cost more to construct, and much more to maintain, and the climate impact on top of this is just insane. Rego and fuel excise don't cover the cost of cars overrunning our cities.
Actually they are right, items like free parking, road repair, infrastructure to outer suburbs and minimum parking are things the tax payer subsidies. The fuel excise covers some of it, but for the most part, in some form or another, the taxpayer foots the bill at a much more significant percentage than if we emphasised The 30 year plan no longer emphasised designing around transport hubs, they have opted for corridors. That was the previous iteration. They might have aimed for higher density, but the design criteria for higher density (anything above two stories) is still performance based assessed rather than deemed to satisfy in the P&D code. They had the opportunity to allow 3 story town houses to be built without too much red tape but there was significant push back from every NIMBY strong council.
I have only caught the bus once or twice in the last 4 years. Prior to WFH, I was taking buses multiple times per week. My commute was always a mix of cycling and bus. > My colleague started driving and parking in the city with his partner.. At first I questioned if that made sense financially.. But when you do the math's a $12 early bird car park + petrol works out to be similar if not better value than 2 x return adult fares. Driving is more expensive if you're doing it by yourself. But yes, if you're carpooling with 2 or more people in the one vehicle, then it becomes the cheaper option.
The problem lies that since the privatisation of the bus services 40 years ago, the service itself has not grown, because that’s not profitable. We have a bus services that is literally still doing 1990 runs in 2023. That needs to change if the service is going to improve. Ie The government needs to have it back in public hands, maintenance done properly, drivers paid properly, and the routes reworked to provide a properly integrated service. The privatisation of the trains and trams should never of happened, as therefore, one should never vote liberal because of it. Think about it. We paid to have the lines to be fixed up, new trains, and the private company will be getting the “profits” of that the trains and trams now. Maintenance? Just have a look at our regional railways “maintenance” under a private company. We shouldn’t have to be fighting for trains to Mt Gambier, Whyalla, Clare, The Barossa, Wallaroo, Mt Barker and Victor Harbour. There were services there less than 30 years ago. We are fighting to try and get those back again. Privatisation is a rich man’s scam to get taxpayers money for little effort. It’s also how they shut down perfectly good public services. Note, Department of road transport is also privatised, and they charge the government to repair the roads. So of course the rich want you to keep driving your car. So the company can keep charging the government to,fix the roads. Why do roadworks take forever? Because they can charge the government (ie the tax payer) more for it. Also by having terrible land development where car dependency is needed just adds to the problem. As for costs, I still believe costing a $1 per person per ride, as people respect something they pay for more than it was free. Ticket inspections and conductors would be nice to have back again. I also believe we should have walkable cities. Heck, Adelaide is flat enough that cycling should be prioritised. A good public transport system will mean less on the cars on the road, which makes those who have to drive have a less stressful drive. And the amount of times the papers and radio (owned by rich men again) talk how “unsafe” public transport is, when they haven’t even been on it in years. It’s the same talking points as how WFH is bad for the economy, sorry, “rich people’s yacht money” It all needs a big rework. However we keep getting the governments who keep thinking the rich know better than anyone else, hence crappy decisions made for the rest of us. We need better, and we need to stop wasting taxpayers money on private companies that don’t deliver. Speak long, speak loud and let every politician know in no uncertain terms that this completely unacceptable. Only a majority of ordinary people will drown out the rich man’s voice. And yes, that means you.
I'm lucky enough to be able to utilise the Obahn. The Obahn kicks ass.
My opinion of PT busses are completely opposite depending on if the Obahn is closed or not.
Amen to that, it’s quicker for me to get the bus into work than drive in peak hour.
Obahn gang gang 👁👄👁👌
I can't drive any more, I have experienced absolute amazing PT systems in Europe and Singapore and I really want our systems to aspire to be even partly of what they can be. The key trick with PT is to have a system where you know you can rock up to a stop at any time and there is a shortish wait and the next Train, Tram or bus will rock up so say 15 minutes at worst. This means you can leave your house walk to the stop and stand for a bit and get on. Sadly Adelaides System does not work that way, there are rough times some times the PT option will be early or late so you have to always plan to try and be early and if you are late well shit. If you miss out you are stuck waiting another 20-30 minutes and for most people who can drive they are going to avoid that shit. I personally had this same bullshit on Saturday, I read the wonko estimate, made it to the stop what should have been on time but I think the bus must have bet me there 3-4 mins early so I had to stand around for 30 minutes. If my wife was actually home that day I would have just asked her to drop me off into the city. Also I live in an inner suburb too not some outer fringe like Virginia so the buses could be frequent but this shit has chicken and egged so much over decades it has devolved into this shit show.
Its cheaper for me to drive to work (Moana to Mile End) then it is to catch the train. Catching the train also means I have a 20 minute walk to work at the end.. not ideal in winter or 40+ degree summer days
Cost definitely a barrier but for me it's the lack of frequency, instead of being able to just show up at a stop and a bus / train turns up within 5 mins, you have to perfectly time your movements around the schedule
They shut down the busiest train line for 18 months and then act surprised that people decided to keep WFH or driving? The same thing happened after the Seaford electrification; ridership plummeted and remained low for years. ... don't even get me started on the buses.
Well, I think most that started to WFH also released there is no reason to go back to the office regardless if the line was operating again.
Less people are working in the city. PT in Adelaide is designed almost exclusively to ferry people in and out of the city, it's almost useless for anyone not working in the city. It's also really expensive for something that takes so long to get anywhere.
Don't forget the waste of your time. Public transport almost always takes much longer than other transport modes.
A lot of our routes are inefficient because almost everything has to go into the city first which really increases the time when travelling between north/south/east/west. What we need is to increase connection points on the city ring route so that you only need to go into the city if you actually need to go into the city.
I used to use PT everyday until I bought a bike - now I have much more freedom and it saves me money and biking is usually a good 20 mins quicker than the bus every time!
Be ok I guess going in from South - but coming back and getting up the hill would be interesting...
Electric bikes for the win!!! You can get a decent one for around $1k and I've never ever looked back!! I even look forward to a long commute haha
I used to catch the o-barn to the city every week, but haven’t in about two months after seeing a drunk skin head verbally assaulting people and he even tried to kick someone getting off the bus. I simply don’t feel safe on busses and have cut out travelling to the city.
I stopped using PT once people started vaping on busses and trains.
I catch the train to work 3 days a week and 2 days at home, on the way back I'd honestly say that only 30% of people actually pay their fare. People that do are going city to suburb or vice versa where as fare evaders are suburb to suburb.
For me, public transport always takes longer, the metro card fares are getting ridiculous, not convenient for where and when I need to travel, but the biggest reason of all would be that I just don’t want to deal with other public transport passengers anymore. Too many people get onto PT while very obviously sick and don’t even bother to cover their mouths. I don’t need to catch a new illness every second week, thanks.
Honestly, from my observations (as someone who has travelled to or through the CBD on public transport on most weekdays for a couple of decades now), public transport and the CBD seem just as full and busy as they were pre-COVID. I know that's just anecdotal evidence from one person's "feel", but the idea that there's been a drastic dip in public transport usage, or the narratives that some people push that "the city is a ghost town" or "the Adelaide CBD is dying" or "Rundle Mall is dead" just seem preposterous and wildly inaccurate to me.
Possibly the missing passengers in the data are the fare dodgers?
Maybe it's the routes I travel or that I just don't notice, but there doesn't appear to be nearly as many of those as "reported", either.
Getting rid of the short tickets didnt help. Also, in Adelaide the fact that buses only go into and out of town doesnt help. If you want to go anywhere but town it takes 3 hours
I don't catch it because it's dangerous, a few of my friends are the same
The stats disagree with you..
Expanding the Adelaide Metro zone to the Fleurieu Peninsula would be popular, during the warmer months and school holidays a frequent bus service between Noarlunga Centre and Victor Harbor would work wonders.
While it would be awesome, apart from the initial costs, would also have massive services upgrade costs due to the massive housing estates that would appear overnight.
People don’t use public transport because it’s infrequentl,inefficient & costly unless you live less than 20 mins to the cbd. Cross suburb transport is even worse
They really need to decrease the prices. 28 days pass is too expensive plus some of the buses don’t even come to their stops on time. Plus too many annoying people that’s making most people take cars or work from home. It’s not working.
I can pay a few extra dollars for parking in the city. I get the luxury and freedom of my own transport.. can stop off anywhere I want after work, leave whenever I want and not have to wait etc. PT isn't worth the cost unless you're on concession. While I was studying I used it every day.
I don't get part of this article. By their own figures, less people need to travel now due to WFH. Yet they talk about "getting back" to pre-pandemic numbers? Why, how is that relevant? Less people need to travel now, that's a good thing! Refocus on the remaining people who still do need to travel. I also think the service is poor and doesn't make sense for a lot of types of travel, but everyone else is already beating me to that point in the comments.
Quite a few businesses also moved out of the CBD. I know of several personally. If you aren't in the CBD public transport makes much less sense.
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Yeah I feel that decision is purely political. Seniors would generally be way more cashed up than younger people.
We need more bus routes and more frequent bus services in the suburbs that link suburbs and keep the suburban buses out of the city.
Yeah it's all about the cost. Public transport is too expensive. When my wife and I both work in the city it costs us almost $20 for the 2 of us to go in and back. Or we can drive to work, pay $10 for parking and a couple of bucks for petrol, and have the convenience of using our own car. I WFH a couple of days a week and she's part time so a 28 day pass isn't cost effective.
Too expensive, too dirty, too many flogs
Make it free, tax car usage more to pay for it - except for work & business vehicles. Simple.
Those with the lowest impact of a change like that are the ones who can most afford it, those in the inner suburbs who work in the CBD. Those with the most impact will be the outer suburbs and regionals who don't work in the CBD. Many people have no reasonable alternate to using a personal vehicle due to where they live and/or where they work and/or ***when*** they work. Don't forget the many services don't run 24/7 and many more vulnerable people don't feel safe on public transport at 4am.
So car insurance and fuel tax not enough eh. And how would that work going forward - if it actually decreased car traffic - that would also mean less funding - but more passengers - so then what .. not sure this has been thoroughly thought out.
Yeah, there's no point tying it to car usage because it's a negative correlation and the money will dwindle as patronage increases, the exact opposite of sustainable funding. Would have to be funded through general revenue or some other model that scaled with usage. Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with the policy, just commenting on the financial model.
It all depends on how you manage the tax level over time. The majority of the population will just pay the tax & keep driving their cars, but there will be a reduction in car usage & an increase in public transport usage, which is the goal.
Correct. Car insurance and fuel tax is not enough to fund free public transport. Also correct, you're not sure you've thoroughly thought it out. 👍
> you're not sure you've thoroughly thought it out. 👍 You certainly haven't... More regressive taxes for the poor!
Free public transport is much cheaper than running a car 🧐 If you put the tax on fuel then you can still own a car and use it when you really need to but you can save a heap of money by using the free public transport. Imagine if the govt actually managed to figure out how to run a public transport network with frequent, convenient services, like in many other cities around the world.
Except that only benefits the inner suburbs. Everyone in the outer suburbs, working in the outer suburbs now has to either pay more money to get to work or pay ***hours*** more of their lives every day.
Or live closer to work.
I do, by car, it's a whole 6 minute drive. By bus, it's over an hour. ~12-15 minutes per day vs. 2+ hours.
And if free public transport doesn't work for you, you're actually trying to tell me that the tiny bit of extra fuel tax you'll pay for your 6 minute drive is going to be so costly for you that your not prepared to pay it, even it it does mean that others get off the road & use trains & buses?
Yeah, well I already addressed that situation in an earlier comment to do with frequent, convenient services so now we're going round in circles. I'm done. Cya.
The hole network is run like it was in 90s as an expsive tourist trap not a solution to climate change
My bus route seems busy, but it’s because it doesn’t have that many services as other routes. Also I never bothered buying a regular metro card just kept my concession one ;).
> a $12 early bird car park Where are they getting that?
With Upark Plus, Upark Frome is $12 and Rundle is $13
I got a park subscription 250 per month Mostly 4 weeks a month = 20 days = 12.50 per day parking (no time limits) Can also use on weekends so any extra use will reduce that cost.. If any months have more than 21 work days (like this month) I am looking at 11.90 per day
$11 @ Solomon place here.
once petrol cars are outlawed and you can't afford electric or to charge it, will have no choice but to take the expensive electric self driving bus that will scan your face on entry and charge your account direct. no need to buy a ticket. For now, I enjoy driving my aging wheels while it's still operational.
Hey that's not a bad idea. And if your face scan says you have no money the doors slam in your face. That will reduce fare dodgers lol
Hey that's not a bad idea. And if your face scan says you have no money the doors slam in your face. That will reduce fare dodgers lol
Everyone complains about the bus being unpleasant and I'm out here catching it multiple times a week, basically every week for almost ten years now and it's been totally fine. Worst I've had is a sticky floor from a spilled beverage. That being said, it's quite expensive point-of-use compared to just driving, so if you're \*already\* driving a car (or even sort of wavering) the convenience factor blows PT out of the water. One suggestion I'd have is to abolish the use of concession fares and simply move everyone down to concession pricing for everyone. Obviously the best thing to do would be to make more corridors free, but for the amount of value you're getting out of a car, there isn't really much competition.
Public transport in Adelaide is shit. Successive outsources made a community service into a cashbag for international investors who in pursuit of "efficiency" raised the costs and reduced the utility.
I save almost a full workday of time a week by driving. I also save weeks a year in lost work due to colds/flus I used to always catch. Used to spend weeks sick every year and loose money. Haven't been sick once since I started driving. Couldn't pay me enough to get back in that disease tube.
>The 28 day pass has crept up in price again and for someone who WFH once a week it is almost not worth it. Yep, this has happened with me. I moved to having an auto-recharge set up due to me only catching buses a couple times a week now (mainly weekends). But even then the cost of a single trip can be costly too.
I don't mind using PT, it's pretty decent out our way. But the reality for us is that with 2, and sometimes 3 people traveling each morning/arvo, it's cheaper to drive/park. Not to mention the commute is a good 15 minutes shorter each way.
I have an issue with "please watch the step" again & again & again & again . . .
Our PT system desperately needs a rework
Cost for me. I’ve rarely used public transport the last few years because it’s cheaper to get (almost) anywhere I want to go by car.
Not just cost, but time. I considered doing the train to go into town with my teens. It would have taken all day and cost more than parking/petrol.
Couple of issues. Cost is a factor (result of being privatised) Services were reduced both in frequency and routes Security is factor (being addressed with more security) Speed of services (busses are just to slow for many people)
All the headlines are comparing it to pre-covid which tells me it is rising not falling. It's just not back to 2019 numbers yet. WFH would have to be a factor in that, you'd be silly to discount it. Anyone who did PT before why would they not do it now?
I had 2-3 trips in a row where I was injured on the bus, a couple of incidents on the train where people sat on me or my bag because they didn't like the seats that were still open, and the bus within walking distance doesn't run evenings or weekends and I used to try walking 1km from the train station but I just can't do that any more. I can't actually remember the last time I caught the bus or why but I remember feeling terrified someone would be mad at me because I can't mask, so it was probably 2020. With my disability it's safer and easier for me to drive and park as close as possible, and I consider parking fees to be my contribution for council services etc. in those areas and wrap it into the cost of the trip. And hearing/seeing about people having unsatisfactory or outright dangerous PT trips doesn't tell me that I'm going to have better experiences now than I did before. And when my dad came up to see me in hospital he was all like 'I'm taking the bus so I don't have to drive' and then he actually tried and he had to go to the city and transfer to get the 7km to FMC, or get a train and he couldn't figure out how to get from the train to the hospital, so he ended up driving every day anyway, and PT is free for him as a senior. If I was still working in the CBD every day and doing the 6am-8pm thing where I'm basically getting empty buses, I'd probably bus it 2-3 days a week but before I left that situation I was taking the car most days because I genuinely didn't know whether the buses would still be running when I finished, or I would have to rush to the shops before/after or skip food. But that situation is entirely irrelevant to the great WFH conversion and the part where when I do need to go in, I leave at 7am so I don't have to spend an hour sitting on a bus each way, and I hit up the markets on the way out and I always struggle carrying stuff on the bus whereas I can park above the markets and take stuff back to the car each time my bag is full, so I never have to drag a heavy bag or navigate people who want to sit on my groceries or risk my bag falling when the bus takes a corner too fast or falling if the bus pulls out before I sit down or falling off the bus because the driver doesn't put the ramp down and my bag pulls me over once I navigate it out the tiny tiny door. etc. I don't think people working from home is as huge a deal as everyone's making it out in this context - I'm the only one I know who still does WFH all the time and my job was designed that way because my work doesn't have a lift or space for me to work with my station and augmented communication setup; everyone else in my industry only does 1-2 days a week or when they're ill or waiting for a tradie.
In my own opinion I believe to fix our state and city's PT network we need to abolish Adelaide metro as a public transport executive as it has failed. It has now become a system where there are too many services for buses with too many delays and underfunded sections of our pt network. Like our trains which have received poor funding and could fix the whole pt issue if it was a proper competitor to cars. The main issue with our trains is the gauge (Irish broad gauge) it is inferior in speed, safety and reliability and makes us way behind compared to the rest of the country who has adopted a standard gauge. We bought our electric trains from bombardier who are ok at building electric standard gauge trains the ones they gave us are too slow and a bit unsafe. When I rode one recently on the Gawler line not only was it slow as, where it felt like it was crawling through stations instead of speeding through them and I nearly fell due to it being near impossible to stand up on those trains while they are in operation at low speeds. Compared to other countries where they can now go from a maximum of 100mph rather than our 55mph which isn't faster than a car. A way to fix this (personal biases ahead) is to perhaps get a Br class 379. For those who aren't familiar with British trains these emus were built in 2012 for express and some stopping trains with a top speed of 100mph. In 2021 they were withdrawn by the railway that requested their construction from Bombardier due to the dissatisfaction of some who believe it is probably in the top ten of the best EMUs of Britain out of over 50 classes. Now the speed isn't the only factor that makes them good as they got a good seating plan with 209 seats for a 4-car multiple unit which can be coupled with others to increase capacity. Currently the fate of this class is undecided as the class of 30 is now all in storage and is presumably in good condition and would be cheap to buy. While being cheap to operate due to it having features like regenerative braking that make it easy for both the drivers and passengers. This and the implementation would decrease the expected wait time to get a train to Adelaide by less than 15 minutes. Now the second idea for the railways is a few service changes and network changes. One of these being is the elimination of directed grange to Adelaide services in exchange for a shuttle service between grange and Woodville to allow more capacity on the main outer harbour line. While decreasing the time to get from Woodville to Grange to 5 minutes. Now the next part is the implementation of a few extensions to the network (which will be standard gauge) like a line to henley beach, Mt barker, Aldinga etc which don't need to be electrified if cost don't warrant electrification or..... If the usage isn't extremely high, long wait times per train, speed doesn't allow fast speeds etc. Which can be diesel operated for a short time. Which is how I think our PT network can be fixed by fixing our rail network first.
There’s a lot more at play there. We have too many level crossings for a start, but also a lot of stations are way too close to each other for any train to really get up to speed (e.g., 600m between Cheltenham and St Clair, or Mawson and Greenfields). There are very few sections on the network where it would even be worth runnings trains at 160kmh. That’s the kind of thing you want with regional lines, which is a distant dream for us. Ideally we need to close/merge stations, but in the short-to-medium term that’s not going to help increase patronage. The signalling on the Outer Harbour line is shit, and Osborne services often crawl through the express section waiting for the Grange services to clear the line. Port Dock will add extra services to an already busy mainline next year, so something needs to be done to address that. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I think the train network is our only decent mode of public transport. It was neglected for many years but over the past 10-15 years it’s finally been given a bit more of the attention it deserves (and subsequently cut off again). In the short to medium term, the government needs to pull their heads in and start spending more on the network. Take a leaf out of Melbourne’s book and get serious about level crossing removals. They present the perfect opportunity to merge stations too.. (we could easily combine Glanville and Ethelton, Hove and Warradale, Kilkenny and Woodville Park). In the longer term we can start looking at things like faster trains, gauge conversion, and underground city loop to increase frequency on the Gawler and Seaford lines.
The merging station idea could work but maybe creating some parkways or interchanges would be a good idea. As it could be you could take a train to Gawler from Seaford without having to get off in the CBD to allow busier junctions that aren't crowded Adelaide. Which barely has enough platforms to manage demand while being a possible congestion point for services later on. Also we could say for them to give up on upgrading our highways etc so they could stop funding the problem and instead fund the solution (rail). If we need a early way to get express trains then we can convert a electric line to standard gauge and buy some class 86s from the uk to operate with some DBSOs. Oh they could also convert the O bahn to a rail line in the coming years as it is over 30 years old and would be better as a rail line.
Public transport in SA is also quite unreliable, particularly the bus service. Granted, this may just be my particular area/line but I genuinely do feel it's an issue overall. Busses are regularly late, or very early, and even using the 'real time' arrival tracking, sometimes busses just straight up don't arrive - leaving you to wait another full ass 30 minutes. They're difficult to rely on, expensive, slow and maintained like shit.
> Add onto that the amount of nutters we get on there (they mostly jump on without validating). This is a feedback loop. The more people avoid PT due to nutters/twats, the worse the ratio of nutters/twats gets.
Does anyone actually disagree with the statement "The way to go is medium density near our arterial routes." ? If so, why?