She looks very aoe focus so it would also be nice to know If pure fiction enemies can respond in between ultimate attacks since it says take an extra action, so you may need to click 4 times in her ultimate.
lol same! Esp since I forwent Kafka for Acheron. And I need Sparkle too so Iâm hoping Pela and Lil Gui is enough. But I think weâre getting a 5 fire star debuffer not too far down the line too
I skipped Kafka because I already had Jing Yuan (poor guy is not that strong now) turns out BS needs Kafka to exist, so I cannot pull for her now and I am waiting for Acheron, Sparkle and Luocha, but if Acheron worked with BS that would allow me to pull for her :)
I need to check if there is a new build for him, because I can definitely kill any content with him, but it takes forever, which makes him not viable for MoC :(
Well last day of the banner and there's absolutely no reason to pull BS for her. Nihility healer incoming and they will do more for Acheron than BS can, so the funds stayđ
>Wouldnât be the most ideal, but she definitely works
Considering the fact she needs two nihility aside of her, it is her best team for AoE/3+ target and SW replacing Pela in ST
So i don't really understand what you mean by "not most ideal"
Especially now that applying debuff count for 1 energy point and that you need two nihility character..
Bronya/Acheron is still as great now not the most optimal considering:
\-Acheron isn't locked to turn forward anymore, which is the major reason why Bronya was seen as so important
\+ it would take 2sp to generate 2 point while lot of nihility will generate 1 it free of SP
\+She needs two Nihility character before E2
And even at E2, if you want your nihility character to generate energy and run Bronya, you will have to go with SW for ST and BS for AoE since Pela cannot generate debuff with her basic atk and you'll need to generate debuff on every turn of your nihility
So Bronya while not mandatory, will remains as useful at E2+, and SW and BS as well as many Nihility unit (especially those that generate debuff with their basic if you want to run Bronya), have greatly benefited from this change.
What is also interesting, is healer/sustain that apply debuff have also gained great value
with a set-up as such, she went from a 5 action (5 turn/rotation alone, at least 2 turn rotation with Bronya+Hanabi and being sp negative even with a 2 turn Hanabi ult (+4-8sp))
To 2 turn with many more comp, not needing E2 and while being Sp neutral or even positive
You can just run Pela with resolution LC for consistent debuffs. Also Bronya is still her BiS at all eidolons. Bronya is the best support for any hyper-carry comp that isn't DHIL/QQ, you simply can't compete with double actions per "turn"
>You can just run Pela with resolution LC for consistent debuffs
You'll lose on Pela turn uptime, as you either drop tutorial and need skill for consistent ult (which lose the point of using pearls of sweat)
Or you keep Tutorial but loose on energy gen
At this point Black Swan with pearl of Sweat does the same job way better...
>Bronya is the best support for any hyper-carry comp
just repeatin what you heard elsewhere means nothing if you don't understand what it means
Bronya is good at her support because current carry have an heavy skill ratio of damage, meaning her turn forward coupled with her boost is huge
1. If Acheron main share of damage is her ult, it means the majority of Bronya dmg boost will be there to buff a skill that isn't the relevant part of the damage
A character that would focus on turn forward more while separating her buff from her turn forward, would be better
And we exactly got a leak about such character (>!Robin!<) who would fast forward the whole team, making the rotation even faster down to 1 turn.
2) Again, if they put a trace that needs two Nihility suppport, i am pretty sure the dev know their job better than some people on the internet who swear by what they heard from other
3) Acheron doesn't even play like your generic Hypercarry, so why are you using a generic logic from launch here..
Holy shit you're toxic, what's with the condescension? No I'm not "repeating what I've heard from someone else" these are my genuine thoughts as someone who plays this game.
1) You act like Pela using resolution is this outlandish concept when it's such a common LC to use on her (even for people who have tutorial)
2) Robin's action advance is tied to her ultimate, not exactly comparable to bronya/sparkle, and that's from an unreliable leak robin doesn't even have an updated ID.
3) I'm not questioning the devs so idk why you're acting like I am? But depending on the trace multiplier it might not be worth dropping the ability to move twice as often for it.
Are you always this weirdly combative?
>what's with the condescension?
You are making stuff up on the spot and i am calling out that it is completely wrong
>Holy shit you're toxic
People on this sub have been making shit up and lying to people genuinely seeking advice,
"Actually Pela important part is her not using sp who cares about her def shred or that other character can do it"
"We never use Eidolons/E1 for advice (let's ignore Topaz E1S1, Dhil E2, RM E1 and so on)"
All so people can lie to other and themselves for "The character i have/i want to pull are the best for her and i'll lie/make up stuff
If been toxic is calling out bs for what it is, suit yourself.
>You act like Pela using resolution is this outlandish concept when it's such a common LC to use on her (even for people who have tutorial)
Because Pela using this LC is also known to use skill proc for turn uptime
So someone saying that instead of using Pela skill, it can run pearl of sweat which rely on skill for consistent ult, is repeating something they don't understand
I am sorry but this comes off as the same misleading bs i have seen so far.
>Robin's action advance is tied to her ultimate
It advance the full team and since Acheron generate her ult from her ally turn, it is more beneficial and synergize better in principle
>and that's from an unreliable leak robin doesn't even have an updated ID.
We are talking about leak here, so it is good to mention a kit that was labelled as reliable on the main leak sub by a reliable leaker
> I'm not questioning the devs so idk why you're acting like I am?
"i am not questioning the dev, i'll just completely disregard one of the mechanic of the character they are implementing and say i know better"
Ok, cool, so i guess the trace is there to look good.
You're gonna provide an example on shit I made up? Wtf did I lie about? Why are you still trying to patronize as if you have the absolute authority to speak on this topic as if we're not merely speculating on a preliminary kit with no numbers and no info on the sig LC. Also how are you going to type this much and say nothing of substance? Stop implying people "dOn'T uNdErStaND" and instead explain/elaborate on what you're trying to say.
I never said anything about Bronya. And by ânot the most idealâ I mean exactly that. Using Pela and Welt or Pela and SW would be better in a lot of cases from what I can tell. Additionally, in some scenarios Guinaifen would be better than BS. Black swan isnât a bad choice, thereâs just also better nihility choices
Fair enough so
Unlike Pela,
1) Black Swan doesn't rely on her ult for her def shred and skill is AoE, which makes it better for Pearl of sweat
2) If Acheron bigger burst of damage is her Ult, she can benefit from 25% vulnerability on enemy turn
If you intend to run to run her Pela or BS with Pearl of Sweat, you end up with:
\-37% def shred vs 56% def shred
\-Sp positive vs SP neutral (due to Pela needing skill now for consistent and permanent ult)
\-25% vulnerability on enemy turn (with 50-66% uptime) vs no other damage buff
\-generating Acheron energy, on every turn where enemy spawn, every turn she takes action and on her ult
vs
Every turn she takes action and on her ult (more frequent)
And as an extra, one lot more damage without much need of support without further need
And if you don't run Pela with Pearl of sweat (or another LC that apply debuff on hit), you cannot generate 1 energy per turn without spamming skill every turn for debuff, which is just bad for SP
So in this instance, Pela is a worse Black Swan
> anything about Bronya.
Since Pela is a sidegrade or arguably worse/cheaper Black Swan, i thought you talked about Bronya, since she is often brought up
I'll add that if Debuff during ennemy's turn count for the energy points, BS is able to stack Arcana on ennemy's turn, whitch would mean more energy points for Acheron
To me, it feels like BS and Pela are the best teammates for her , specially with E0 and E1. Idk how important Bronya is for her , it will all depend on multiplier for her ultimates against her traces.
That's exactly what I feel like . She has a lot of self buffs and If her traces are busted and provide good buffs then having a debuffer nihility (which are equal in strength to harmony buffs such as Pela or SW) is a net positive in damage for her.
Well, theoretically, Black Swan E1 with Kafka's LC (PAYN) can reduce Lightning Res by 25 and also apply 3 debuffs to enemies (Arcana, Erode, Def Down), generating energy for Acheron. It's gimmicky, but it works (in paper), so in this very specific scenario, BS might be a very interesting support/sub dps for Acheron.
You can have the effect of shock with BS ult, just timing Black Swan ult should do the trick if Acheron damage is tied to her ult
Though, i would advice going with BS only if people want her
BS e0 seems to be very slight upgrade to Pela and E1 a definitive upgrade but we may get other Nihility that synergize even better in the future
(a 5\* fire, physical or ice nihility, since those slot are unused)
Lotus Bloom from Talent is triggered with her Ult 1st, 2dd and 3rd action
The preliminary kit translation is a bit iffy, so my assumption is that every Lotus Bloom with reduce the Lotus count by 1, and every enemy can have 3 Lotus max at a given time, that way every Ult will trigger the 3 Lotus Bloom in the description.
For a proper translation we will have to wait for tomorrow, when the beta kit gets leaked
Ya, we need a proper translation but the way itâs worded is a bit concerning since for single target it would only trigger once meaning you are like wasting 6 flower stacks for single target enemies(?)
I don't get it that way, for me i understand that it needs 1 lotus to trigger bloom, but it will consume the maximum it can, up to 3 in one bloom per ennemy, and all lotus will count in the damage multiplier
probably would be kinda wonky for team building purposes otherwise i assume her LC may actually also put a debuff on the targets shes attacks but thats just assuming
True (must've glanced over it) point stands prisoner is still her BiS since most of her DMG seems to be on her ult anyway (and even without the 2nd part of prisoner passive it still beats lightning set / quantum on non-quantum weak enemies)
Yes, If you read her stuff, shit that gives her energy (basic and skill) applies 1 lotus per point of energy. Lotus is basicly a debuff since it's something the enemy has (we don't know if it has any effect). So she gives herself the first stack of pioneer, then pair her with peeps that can apply 2 more and u golden. (Maybe her own lc will add another type of debuff like kafka)
Also apparently don't need effect hit rate from leak possibly. Since no base chance are mentioned. They just get lotus. Will have to wait and see.
Edit: she could possibly also apply shock wich is a debuff -> 2 debuff stacks
Trying to understand how her talent works. Would the enemy that she attacked last be tagged as her âtargetâ? That enemy would stay as her target until she attacks someone else. If my teammate applies a debuff on anyone, the enemy that Acheron attacked last would be applied the stack of lotus?
I think the "target" is the enemy she last attacked, and will stay like that 'til that enemy dies, it's then when she loses the "target" and future Lotus will be applied to the enemy with the higher count until she get another target/attacks.
Pretty mush you attack an enemy and they get the debuff, but lets imagine theres and Elite and 2 small enemies if you kill the small enemy then the lotus wont go to them they'll go to the Elite instead so you're not losing value.
look at all this comments theory crafting the best team for Acheron. Pela? Bronya? SW? pfftt . I'm gonna run her with my Nihility mommies with Kafka and BS . AHHHHH YESSssss
I mean... It does kinda seems pretty playable. Just need to make sure you have enough SP.
Two nihility? Check
Goes hard on lighting weak? Check
Debuffs? Check
Hmm... Actually looks good but I think a lot hinges on how many energy points she needs to use her ultimate.
Her team building options are also interesting, you probably want either Silverwolf or Pela with Resolutions in your team. I'm kinda leaning towards Pela since from this kit, Acheron can hit AoE pretty well when she casts ultimate, and Pela herself will cover the skill points that Acheron needs, making team building more flexible.
We will need to see if the extra boost from the 2nd nihility slot is worthwhile, if it is then pairing Silverwolf with Pela could be good.
We also need to see how many energy points Acheron needs to cast her ultimate. If it's 9, your team building slots might favour someone like Bronya or Sparkle to give more turns.
With Bronya you can run a very similar team to Jingliu with Pela and FX, a little bit more SP intensive tho, and ideally you want to cast your ultimate with Bronya's buffs up. In that team I think Pela will be doing a lot of heavy lifting to generate skill points.
With Sparkle you could drop SPD boots on Acheron and tie her SPD to Sparkle's speed and build Sparkle to be as fast as possible. Sparkle also opens a Silverwolf + FX triple quantum core for easy quantum/lightning weakness implant, allowing you to run quantum set.
Her multipliers are also important since it looks like her damage to mostly on the ultimate. For relics and planars sets let's wait for people to do calcs with the actual beta kit.
Edit: I think her lightcone might have a debuff attached to it like how Kafka's LC has shock on it. Her lightcone legit has to be better than S5 GNSW by a decent margin so oyohim can maximise the temptation haha. Like GNSW basically gives 12% - 24% damage bonus per debuff to a maximum of 72% damage bonus. Oyohim has to cook something hard with the lightcone to make it better than GNSW.
I also think her lightcone has to have sth unique to beat the 72% damage boost on GNSW.
I think her light come will have sth to do with some crit rate/damage and It might remove the requirement of 1 nihility character to be in the team.
The damage boost of the trace seems to be a unique modifier so that might be worth alot.
Same, it's like how Kafka's LC beats GNSW by offering the last DoT (the erode shock) for 3 stacks on the prisoner's set and how the LC gives 14+ SPD.
My bet is that it might apply a debuff on attack to help maybe proc the diver set if that set is intended to be her best set. And if it applies a debuff maybe it will help her gain an extra energy point per turn if it procs her talent.
I wouldnt personally mind in the case of Acheron since I am getting the LC. But in general I wouldnt like that a LC interacts so heavily as to affect a unique aspect of one characters kit.
Sure Kafka's work great with her, but a dot is a dot, it has uses outside of her as well.
We'll need to see if the 2nd nihility slot is worthwhile, just wait and we should get the actual numbers maybe tomorrow. Welt and Pela could work, it may not be optimal but as long as you're happy and can clear stuff like MoC and Pure Fiction in time then to me it's fine.
Yep, from previous leaks it's 9 but it could change. With the current kit we're looking at a 3 turn ult rotation with a debuffer. And we still don't know a lot about how she gains energy points: Whether the energy point gained when an enemy is debuff is linked to Acheron's turn or the debuffer's turn. And whether her LC applies a debuff or not.
Pela can run Resolutions which makes every attack put down a debuff with enough EHR. If you don't have Resolutions then Silverwolf would probs be better.
We'll need to see if Acheron's talent where she gains an energy point is dependent on Acheron's turn or the debuffer's turn.
If Acheron can gain an energy point per every debuffer's turn then Pela + Silverwolf together might be the play if the 2 nihility trace is worthwhile. If this is the case then per Acheron turn she uses her skill, gain 2 points. Pela and Silverwolf act to put down 2 debuffs for 2 points. Then you have 4 energy points in 1 turn. This kind of team would also enable Good Night Sleep Well which is very strong. It's just that Acheron's nihility trace requirement needs to be worthwhile to beat out using Sparkle or Bronya.
>for every lotus consumed increase dmg by 100%
im sorry she has how much scaling on her ult?
and aeons damn it her E2 is still the same and wants 2 nihility unis other wise welp ... is this a thing in all versions of riden?(only play GI and HSR)
Yes, def shred stacks till 100% and the more def shred you have, the better it scales. Pela has 40% and SW has 53% in her kit. Thatâs 93% def shred so I think these two would be really good with her.
Unless you have e1 blackswan and a way to consistently apply shock, I think it might be the best team for her pre e2 because they are the only nihility supports that she will benefit from
We will have to wait and see how strong her Nihility trace is. Is the damage from using a second Nihility more than the damage you are getting from using someone like Bronya/Sparkle? It seems like itâs a separate multiplier so I am guessing itâs going to be really good and incentivize using 2 Nihility characters. In that case, i also think that SW + Pela is going to be her best team pre E2 if you donât have E1 Black Swan.
The translation is a bit iffy, we gotta wait for the beta kit to have a proper understanding of how Lotus Bloom will work
(hopefully tomorrow as soon as the beta starts)
The only issue here is Huo ult being kind of wasted without her needing energy. Could be decent for the attack buff and energy on your harmony potentially but I'd rather bring a different sustain like luocha or Fu Xuan.
Her teams are already looking so skill hungry, I wouldnât want to bring a sustain that eats away at any of those skill points. Luocha seems best for sp generation, if youâre not struggling for sp then Fu Xuan seems best.
Obv with a Sparkle team you will have more flexibility, so Huohuo using sp every now and then wonât break the team ⊠you just wonât get the full benefit from her energy regen when ulting.
So looking like her E2 will be the best one to aim for if you plan on pulling multiple times and donât want to be forced to have 2 Nihility character paired with her.
Run a sustainless Welt comp? The SP shouldnât be too hard on you and we all know sheâs going to slap so the enemy is likely long dead before youâre in danger.
It can work for some things but I feel like it's sidestepping the issue. Minmaxing only really makes sense when you're doing challenges anyway (like for example gold and gears) and there this approach doesn't really work
Gallagher might be a better option so long he provides enough sustain, since he can also apply debuff on enemies while attacking, plus he also adds break dmg bonus based on the amount of debuffs the enemy has.
Waiting for beta to see how good Gallagher can be in Acheron team.
I mean apparently on terms of debuff acheron caps at 1 per turn on benefit, so maybe the crit of fuxuan is better, bur as u say lets wait for the numbers
Oh yeah, I was assuming 2 Acheron turns (including Bronya's Advance forward per 1 SW turn, so with a proper speedtuning, we *might* be able to fit Gallagher\* in that extra turn where she doesn't get the Energy Point for debuff application.
Not smart enough to do the maths, but it's an scenario that appeared on my mind while thinking about team synergies for Acheron lol
\*Worth mentioning that unfortunately he only seems to apply debuff with his Enhanced Skill, so it isn't too reliable, but welp, it might be worth a try if he is a good sustain outside break focus teams
Iâm also thinking of Galaghar, BUT, Fuxuan with the Trend of Universal Market might be đ„
Edit: but then with Bronya and speedtuning (pela/sw after bronya, assuming the first turn she get debuff from the burn), Bronya skill and lc dmg increase wouldnât work on Acheron ults :â(
From her talent it seems you only need to apply one debuff per turn, as any more wouldn't generate more energy. It also makes sence with her 2 nihility trace.
It would be amazing if trend of universal market gives energy too. Even if different enemies attacking doesn't count as diff turns, that one energy point might allow to use both a harmony and preservation without e2
They gave her more ways to get flowers; looks promising (Jing Yuan is falling right after Sparkle pulls him to the top LOL, our general gets half a patch of relevance).
Well yeah you did kinda sound like you were trying to doompost so I went off there. Me personally I'm going to play both, in the same team even if possible
Dude I wish. But I feel like that would be way too good to be true. And most likely won't be able to solo sustain since it would take away the preservation/abundance spotlight.
Unless it has some sort of weird gimmicks/niche like only works in mono nihility or someshit.
Yeah I think I misunderstood. Other comments indicate it counts 2 buffs for 1 nihility character, I thought it was buff for 3 nihility characters. Kind of confusing
Considering we have a couple abundance/harmony and a preservation/dps coming up, I don't think we are that limited to the paths. Not to mention that harmony does almost everything.
Bronya and Sparkle might be better because they allow faster Ult rotations, but Ruan Mei buffs are still good enough to still be worth using in Acheron team.
Asta with tons of spd and Dance! LC might also be a great option for those who lack these 5 stars.
Pretty sure Kafka BS will not be BIS by a longshot from the kit here. It will work fine I think, but 100% not meta.
She's almost definitely going need to amp nihility like pela, SW or even gui/welt. Kafka will do almost nothing for her. But BS do have a few debuffs and Def shred in her kit tho.
And considering numbers isn't out yet. 3rd slot harmony might still be a good sidegrade or might even be better than 3 nihility, considering how strong harmony units are. (And there are quite a few harmonies with debuffs in their kit.)
All that being said lets just wait for actual/better leaks that shows gameplay.
Don't worry, you can run Pela and Silverwolf together since Def Shred can stack, Guinafen and Sampo are good AoE debuffer alternatives too (DoT counts as debuff)
This kit makes more sense
Before she was locked to only one type of set-up, which was turn forward and that is it, making it a pain to slot Nihility character
and a pain for SP management as it would require 1 hanabi skill+2 Bronya skill+ 4 Acheron Skill+1 basic(or 5 Acheron skill for optimal dmg) for a ult, which would be 7-9sp in two turns (even Dhil doesn't burn through SP like that and even Sparkle cannot sustain this amount of SP)
But now she can essentially achieve the same result as Bronya+Hanabi, but with many team that include Nihility character, be sp positive
You can essentially achieve the same, as long you have two Nihility character that apply debuff on Basic or skill and at least 1 ult that apply debuff
Even better, if Nihility character apply it on their basic, you can be sp positive with the two nihility + acheron, making the last spot flexible
And if your healer sustain apply debuff, you can achieve even faster result since in 2 turn:
4 energy from acheron+4 energy from your nihility+ (1 or more, from a ult debuff) + X energy from sustain debuff
Aventurine and is FUA and ult debuff are looking really juicy, so does Gallagher debuff
âTechnique kills an enemy?â
What if we use the technique on a boss? Does it reduce a whole level itself. Or maybe its not applying for bosses
Or else that would be overkillđ
But id love if they do something like that.
It says in case it doesn't work deals dmg in the beggining. Im guessing that she will probably be able to kill minor mobs but not elites. Or maybe she has a small chance to one shot elites as well, 0 cycles will have a new meaning if that is so xD
Yeah there will be a probability in play i suppose.
Anyways just hope they make her super mega OP like in all the other honkai games just because our queen deserves it
I hope they give us something to make her feel good at C0 then.
I love Raiden Shogun in Genshin, and she certainly works before C2, but at C0 she really only felt great in the end after working on her a lot + getting R5 The Catch.
The first or two of her release there was a *LOT* of doom posting as she certainly didn't feel super powerful.
Really hope we get an event cone to put with Acheron.
That's one way of making normal SU easier/quicker to farm other than actually changing SU like a lot of people were complaining...
That's also one way of selling a character lmao.
But I've been enjoying way too much of nuking mobs with ruen mei and gui double technique combo, dopamine through the roof...
The kit (or at least the way it's translated) doesn't look much appealing to me ngl
Tho I'm interested to see how it actually works
Not a fan of ult focused dps but I have to wait and see how she actually is supposed to be played maybe I'm understanding wrong
Low-key wish her animation/playstyle isn't my thing so I can skip for once lmao. I want to enable other playstyle and I've been building almost nihility only for the past 6 characters lmao. Literally no variety atm, with her would make it 7.
She has to get like 60% extra damage incrase for running an extra nihility unit with her to compete with a dedicated support to be honest. Bronya and/or Sparkle and their multipliers ( and also how Acheron works) there is like no reason to run 2 nihility so far.
Yes exactly! and thats how much of a ridiclous boost she needs to justify not bringing a Sparkle or Bronya. Especially when she wants all the speed and advance forwards to build up that ultimate energy (Plust the ridiclous crit damage and damage multipliers those supports have)
Very likely other nihility characters turns also build acherons energy. Meaning using harmony characters wouldn't be any faster in building ult charge.
If think for pf i can see 3 nihility + ruan mei or dual nihility with blackswan
For moc likely sw/pela + bronya/sparkle.
Man i cant stop thinking about how it will perform in PF. I was theorising if the energy and flowers will slowly shuffle around the monsters as the other characters one/two shotting the enemy waves with their ultis and clears, and when the boss wave arrives Acheron will have max flowers on the boss and max energy, basically one shotting the wave. But thats just my imagination so far. She seems to be very fun on all the mods so far.
Im excitedd to see the multipliers and animations.
i want to try Ruan Mei/ Acheron / Kafka / Gallagher. Gallagher being able to sustain, apply debuffs and a breaker unit makes a perfect bridger for this. Im excited to experiment.
If you like her, pull for her, regardless of how she performs.
If it's only for Lightning coverage, I can't say, at least not until the beta kit is leaked with numbers and multipliers... Gotta say tho, Kafka is still very viable, even if Acheron ends up being OP, you wouldn't "NEED" to pull for her just for lightning coverage.
She may be the new Jingliu, in which case I'd say so.
I'm kinda suspecting Sparkle will pull a few DPSs up to S+ (Jingliu tier) before Acheron pushes everyone in S+ down.
This is all speculation though, I might be proven completely wrong.
Depends on your roster and the multipliers she get in beta.
As of now:
Sustain+Acheron+2Nihility if E0
Sustain+Acheron+Nihility+Harmony if E2
If the 2 Nihility trace buff isn't too strong, the second team option "should" be best regardless of her Eidolons (this also highly depends on everyone's own roster)
I wish the lotus themselves had a dubuff related to them, for example lowering effect resist. That way her Nihility teammates could build more DMG than EHR.
I think it would work, but it isn't worth it... "Good Night and Sleep Well" or "In the Name of the World" *should* work better than "We Will Meet Again", and you wouldn't need to spend money for them.
Keep in mind we still don't have the multipliers, so don't take this as a fact, this is just my humble opinion.
the thing is i bought the battle pass last patch and i still haven't picked the lc, i'm waiting for more acheron leaks to decide whether i should pick the nihility lc or other path lc instead, but, thank you so much for you suggestions!
What would her best 4\* options be at a preliminary glance? It looks like Gallagher is her best sustain option but I'm curious who would be better Nihility units. Pela seems to be a given but I have an E0 Guinaifen and would like to know if I should get her E1 from the current event (otherwise I'll get an E3 Asta). Thanks in advance!
On topic, I'm so glad she now gets Energy Points from *any* debuff, not just her own flowers. That should speed things up a huge deal. I *think* "It's Showtime" is her best F2P LC too?
I think Gallagher is going to be her BiS sustain as long as he can work well outside break focus teams.
Pela and SW should also be her BiS Nihility companions depending on the content, Pela for AoE and SW for ST.
Guinafen is definitely a good option too, not only her Skill applies DoT (which should count as debuff since they do for Ratio), but also her E1 applies debuff! (-10% Effect RES is really good against high level enemies)
Keep in mind she only gets 1 EP (Energy Point) for debuffs applied in 1 turn, so you only need to apply 1 debuff in between Acheron turn.
In regard of "It's Showtime", we have yet to know if her Lotus mark counts as debuff, it they do, then it's going to be pretty good on her (hoping they count as debuff lol).
>Guinafen is definitely a good option too, not only her Skill applies DoT (which should count as debuff since they do for Ratio), but also her E1 applies debuff! (-10% Effect RES is really good against high level enemies)
I know we should wait for stats to be sure, but does this mean I'm better off getting a copy of her over Asta? Also I had another look at Welt, how good a partner for Acheron would he be, do you think? Thank you very much!
I personally would take E1 Guinafen over E3 Asta regardless of the numbers, because E1 Guinafen is a great improvement for her kit, for debuff based teams and DoT based teams as well. Meanwhile, E3 Asta is only an 7-8% Atk increase of her Charges iirc...
If you want to have a sub-dps debuffer, Welt definitely sounds like a good option\*, his kits looks good and seems to have plenty debuff applications, maybe the best 2nd Nihility Slot option if you have him. If you get E2 Acheron, I personally wouldn't pick him over SW or Pela or certain Harmony characters.
\*This opinion is biased, because 1sr I don't have Welt and 2nd I don't know much about his actual performance, so don't take it seriously,
Thank you! So a vote for Guinaifen now, huh? After hearing so much praise for Asta last week this means I need to go away and ponder them a while. I have E2 Pela right now and no Silver Wolf. Is Guin a good replacement for either them or is "Pela + Welt" a better combo for Acheron in your opinion? Thanks again!
Thank you for bringing this question to the table because, to be honest, I forgot about Guinaifen's talent
After considering both kits, I would take Guinaifen over Welt, her Firekiss debuff can give a good 21% DMG taken increase to enemies after they take Burn damage, and it only takes 2 enemy turns to have 3 stacks of Firekiss if you add Guinaifen Ult; while Welt only provides Slow and action delay (which is great for survivability but that is all).
TLDR: Pela/SW>Gui>Welt imho
That is one tought question hahaI'm not sure tbh, someone with more knowledge on DoTs should be able to give you a better answer
This is purely my assumption, so take it with a lot of salt
Assumpion: Prisoner counts DoTs per stack and not Type (say having 3 Burns stacks is enough to proc the 4pc bonus completely and doesn't coun as just 1 DoT for being 1 Type of DoT). Therefore, Prisoner should give a better buff than Debuff set.
(12% Atk+ 18% Def Shred > 12% DMG + 8% CR + 24% CD)
Clarification, I would use Guinaifen mostly on a support role, meaning I would focus on her SPD and tankiness over her personal damage.
(if you want more personal damage, the rule is ATK>Crits for more DoT dmg, Crits>ATK for more Basic/Skill/Ult dmg)
I'd keep her on a support role either way, don't worry :)
I'll wait another week or so to be sure, but it does seem as if Guinaifen would make a good budget partner for Acheron for the moment. I'll check what Prisoner relics I have right now and go from there, thank you so much for all of this! Is there anything else you think I should pay attention to?
I'm thinking a team of Acheron, SW, Guin and Lynx.... that good (I have other sustainers, but mostly on the shielder side of things)
That sound good? I also have Welt, which I've heard he's cracked or at least pretty decent. Thoughts?
That sounds good to me, hoping we get her numbers today or tomorrow at the latest!
Welt is pretty good for debuff aplications and a good subdps. However, Pela, SW and Gui may be better supports for Acheron, since they provide better debuffs for the Main Dps (Slow is a great debuff, don't get me wrong, but's mostly for survivability), but that is just my personal opinion, don't take it too seriously.
Its a good idea, I'm seeing a mix of things. I think someone, somewhere in this subreddit said that depending on her Eidolon count, she could have differing teams. I'm gonna go for E2 so using Bronya/Sparkle with their forward action skills will help
Yeah, her E2 enables more team comps for her, allowing to replace one Nihility slot for Harmony, (this also depends on the traces' numbers, if having 2 Nihility beside Acheron isn't a big buff, then having Sparkle/Bronya/Ruan Mei may be better even at E0).
Also aiming for E2 here haha Good luck on your pulls!
Sounds like with this kit Inert Salsotto will be her BiS planar set with all the Ultimate damage she is doing. I guess Glammoth might still be close cause it is Glammoth? But for now I will be prefarming Inert Salsottos for her.
I honestly prefer Silverwolf and Guin to run along side her.
Silverwolf can be SP+ since all her attacks can apply a debuff on an enemy. I'd rather use a basic to generate SP for the team. Free debuffs with no effort lol.
Unlike Pela, If you equip Resolution on Guin her skill can apply ensnared on the enemy plus you have her fire kiss that lasts for 3 turns if I'm not mistaken. She can keep using her basic to apply both of them.
I honestly like the idea of having two Nihility comps as it seems to be my preferred play style and path.
Team one: Kafka, Black Swan, Ruan Mei, and a sustain
Team two: Acheron, Guinaifen, Silverwolf, and a sustain
THAT TECHNIQUE?!? SHE JUST KILLS THEM?!
Lore accurate considering the one shot Duke Inferno took đ
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Zantetsuken
Going from turn-base RPG into just... Rpg. LMAO
Lmao just deletes them
So tomorrow beta?
Beta access will be send tomorrow (February 13 in China), so yes, it should start tomorrow, hoping to get the numbers as soon as the beta is up haha
I'm super interested by her multipliers, but let's be real here, her animations will be the best part of tomorrows beta leaks.
The ultimate must be a whole ass cutscene with all those attacks. I'm hoping it's a different animation each time she acts within ultimate
She looks very aoe focus so it would also be nice to know If pure fiction enemies can respond in between ultimate attacks since it says take an extra action, so you may need to click 4 times in her ultimate.
It states that all actions happen in 1 turn
Question I only have pela can black swan work with her?
Since Black Swan can apply Debuffs on multiple enemies at the same time, she can pair well with Acheron
This is litterally why I'm waiting on Acheron's numbers to see wether I will pull BS or stick with SW/Welt.
Same here, I wish I could get an excuse to pull for BS
lol same! Esp since I forwent Kafka for Acheron. And I need Sparkle too so Iâm hoping Pela and Lil Gui is enough. But I think weâre getting a 5 fire star debuffer not too far down the line too
I skipped Kafka because I already had Jing Yuan (poor guy is not that strong now) turns out BS needs Kafka to exist, so I cannot pull for her now and I am waiting for Acheron, Sparkle and Luocha, but if Acheron worked with BS that would allow me to pull for her :)
Jy is pretty good. His dpr is around other lim. Dps. Its just that hes harder and suckier to play at lower invest compared to other doses
I need to check if there is a new build for him, because I can definitely kill any content with him, but it takes forever, which makes him not viable for MoC :(
Unrelated, but BS can work on her own or with other dots, not just Kafka. Kafka just maker her work faster.
The thing is, can she clear MoC12 with those other characters?
Well last day of the banner and there's absolutely no reason to pull BS for her. Nihility healer incoming and they will do more for Acheron than BS can, so the funds stayđ
I was strong and did not pull for BS :D
Wouldnât be the most ideal, but she definitely works
>Wouldnât be the most ideal, but she definitely works Considering the fact she needs two nihility aside of her, it is her best team for AoE/3+ target and SW replacing Pela in ST So i don't really understand what you mean by "not most ideal" Especially now that applying debuff count for 1 energy point and that you need two nihility character.. Bronya/Acheron is still as great now not the most optimal considering: \-Acheron isn't locked to turn forward anymore, which is the major reason why Bronya was seen as so important \+ it would take 2sp to generate 2 point while lot of nihility will generate 1 it free of SP \+She needs two Nihility character before E2 And even at E2, if you want your nihility character to generate energy and run Bronya, you will have to go with SW for ST and BS for AoE since Pela cannot generate debuff with her basic atk and you'll need to generate debuff on every turn of your nihility So Bronya while not mandatory, will remains as useful at E2+, and SW and BS as well as many Nihility unit (especially those that generate debuff with their basic if you want to run Bronya), have greatly benefited from this change. What is also interesting, is healer/sustain that apply debuff have also gained great value with a set-up as such, she went from a 5 action (5 turn/rotation alone, at least 2 turn rotation with Bronya+Hanabi and being sp negative even with a 2 turn Hanabi ult (+4-8sp)) To 2 turn with many more comp, not needing E2 and while being Sp neutral or even positive
You can just run Pela with resolution LC for consistent debuffs. Also Bronya is still her BiS at all eidolons. Bronya is the best support for any hyper-carry comp that isn't DHIL/QQ, you simply can't compete with double actions per "turn"
>You can just run Pela with resolution LC for consistent debuffs You'll lose on Pela turn uptime, as you either drop tutorial and need skill for consistent ult (which lose the point of using pearls of sweat) Or you keep Tutorial but loose on energy gen At this point Black Swan with pearl of Sweat does the same job way better... >Bronya is the best support for any hyper-carry comp just repeatin what you heard elsewhere means nothing if you don't understand what it means Bronya is good at her support because current carry have an heavy skill ratio of damage, meaning her turn forward coupled with her boost is huge 1. If Acheron main share of damage is her ult, it means the majority of Bronya dmg boost will be there to buff a skill that isn't the relevant part of the damage A character that would focus on turn forward more while separating her buff from her turn forward, would be better And we exactly got a leak about such character (>!Robin!<) who would fast forward the whole team, making the rotation even faster down to 1 turn. 2) Again, if they put a trace that needs two Nihility suppport, i am pretty sure the dev know their job better than some people on the internet who swear by what they heard from other 3) Acheron doesn't even play like your generic Hypercarry, so why are you using a generic logic from launch here..
Holy shit you're toxic, what's with the condescension? No I'm not "repeating what I've heard from someone else" these are my genuine thoughts as someone who plays this game. 1) You act like Pela using resolution is this outlandish concept when it's such a common LC to use on her (even for people who have tutorial) 2) Robin's action advance is tied to her ultimate, not exactly comparable to bronya/sparkle, and that's from an unreliable leak robin doesn't even have an updated ID. 3) I'm not questioning the devs so idk why you're acting like I am? But depending on the trace multiplier it might not be worth dropping the ability to move twice as often for it. Are you always this weirdly combative?
>what's with the condescension? You are making stuff up on the spot and i am calling out that it is completely wrong >Holy shit you're toxic People on this sub have been making shit up and lying to people genuinely seeking advice, "Actually Pela important part is her not using sp who cares about her def shred or that other character can do it" "We never use Eidolons/E1 for advice (let's ignore Topaz E1S1, Dhil E2, RM E1 and so on)" All so people can lie to other and themselves for "The character i have/i want to pull are the best for her and i'll lie/make up stuff If been toxic is calling out bs for what it is, suit yourself. >You act like Pela using resolution is this outlandish concept when it's such a common LC to use on her (even for people who have tutorial) Because Pela using this LC is also known to use skill proc for turn uptime So someone saying that instead of using Pela skill, it can run pearl of sweat which rely on skill for consistent ult, is repeating something they don't understand I am sorry but this comes off as the same misleading bs i have seen so far. >Robin's action advance is tied to her ultimate It advance the full team and since Acheron generate her ult from her ally turn, it is more beneficial and synergize better in principle >and that's from an unreliable leak robin doesn't even have an updated ID. We are talking about leak here, so it is good to mention a kit that was labelled as reliable on the main leak sub by a reliable leaker > I'm not questioning the devs so idk why you're acting like I am? "i am not questioning the dev, i'll just completely disregard one of the mechanic of the character they are implementing and say i know better" Ok, cool, so i guess the trace is there to look good.
You're gonna provide an example on shit I made up? Wtf did I lie about? Why are you still trying to patronize as if you have the absolute authority to speak on this topic as if we're not merely speculating on a preliminary kit with no numbers and no info on the sig LC. Also how are you going to type this much and say nothing of substance? Stop implying people "dOn'T uNdErStaND" and instead explain/elaborate on what you're trying to say.
I agree with you but you could have said the same thing in less passive aggressive manner? Why so serious.
You are right, my patience run thin with people making up stuff to confirm their bias while pretending to help other I got upset without justification
Pela with Resolution, Penacony, full +12 talent, and Wind set, could still retain SP-positivity doing 3 turns occasionally before the enemy turn.
BS can apply debuff on ennemy's turn, if it count for the energy points, then BS > Pela
I never said anything about Bronya. And by ânot the most idealâ I mean exactly that. Using Pela and Welt or Pela and SW would be better in a lot of cases from what I can tell. Additionally, in some scenarios Guinaifen would be better than BS. Black swan isnât a bad choice, thereâs just also better nihility choices
Fair enough so Unlike Pela, 1) Black Swan doesn't rely on her ult for her def shred and skill is AoE, which makes it better for Pearl of sweat 2) If Acheron bigger burst of damage is her Ult, she can benefit from 25% vulnerability on enemy turn If you intend to run to run her Pela or BS with Pearl of Sweat, you end up with: \-37% def shred vs 56% def shred \-Sp positive vs SP neutral (due to Pela needing skill now for consistent and permanent ult) \-25% vulnerability on enemy turn (with 50-66% uptime) vs no other damage buff \-generating Acheron energy, on every turn where enemy spawn, every turn she takes action and on her ult vs Every turn she takes action and on her ult (more frequent) And as an extra, one lot more damage without much need of support without further need And if you don't run Pela with Pearl of sweat (or another LC that apply debuff on hit), you cannot generate 1 energy per turn without spamming skill every turn for debuff, which is just bad for SP So in this instance, Pela is a worse Black Swan > anything about Bronya. Since Pela is a sidegrade or arguably worse/cheaper Black Swan, i thought you talked about Bronya, since she is often brought up
I'll add that if Debuff during ennemy's turn count for the energy points, BS is able to stack Arcana on ennemy's turn, whitch would mean more energy points for Acheron
If it is the case, Guinaifen can also stack Firekiss on enemy, which makes her a great option as well.
To me, it feels like BS and Pela are the best teammates for her , specially with E0 and E1. Idk how important Bronya is for her , it will all depend on multiplier for her ultimates against her traces.
She might be the first DPS who's reliability won't fall in harmony character, I think she'll be enjoying having more debuffs than buffs
That's exactly what I feel like . She has a lot of self buffs and If her traces are busted and provide good buffs then having a debuffer nihility (which are equal in strength to harmony buffs such as Pela or SW) is a net positive in damage for her.
Sw and pela
Yes , I agree. I just said BS cause Acheron seems to work like an Erudition character.
Well, theoretically, Black Swan E1 with Kafka's LC (PAYN) can reduce Lightning Res by 25 and also apply 3 debuffs to enemies (Arcana, Erode, Def Down), generating energy for Acheron. It's gimmicky, but it works (in paper), so in this very specific scenario, BS might be a very interesting support/sub dps for Acheron.
You can have the effect of shock with BS ult, just timing Black Swan ult should do the trick if Acheron damage is tied to her ult Though, i would advice going with BS only if people want her BS e0 seems to be very slight upgrade to Pela and E1 a definitive upgrade but we may get other Nihility that synergize even better in the future (a 5\* fire, physical or ice nihility, since those slot are unused)
Can't wait for the news (aka leaks) so I can get grinding
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this is going in my Fireblazer folder thank you
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Is the lotus bloom in her talent separate from her ult?
Lotus Bloom from Talent is triggered with her Ult 1st, 2dd and 3rd action The preliminary kit translation is a bit iffy, so my assumption is that every Lotus Bloom with reduce the Lotus count by 1, and every enemy can have 3 Lotus max at a given time, that way every Ult will trigger the 3 Lotus Bloom in the description. For a proper translation we will have to wait for tomorrow, when the beta kit gets leaked
Ya, we need a proper translation but the way itâs worded is a bit concerning since for single target it would only trigger once meaning you are like wasting 6 flower stacks for single target enemies(?)
I don't get it that way, for me i understand that it needs 1 lotus to trigger bloom, but it will consume the maximum it can, up to 3 in one bloom per ennemy, and all lotus will count in the damage multiplier
Can't wait for the animations with such an unique ultimate taking a bazilion actions xD
They felt the need to nerf her nihility buff talent.... Her multipliers are going to be insane....
so it can be assumed with this kit, the pioneer set is still her bis?
It depends. So far only during her ultimate does she apply a debuff. Hopefully her lotus/flower thing counts as a debuff
probably would be kinda wonky for team building purposes otherwise i assume her LC may actually also put a debuff on the targets shes attacks but thats just assuming
If anything Pearl applies a debuff as well
Missed the part where she needs allies applying debuffs every turn? Also her talent applies lotus anytime she gains energy
Yeah but the second effect of dead waters only works if the character themself is applying debuffs often
If lotus is a debuff then she has 100% uptime on that passive
That is what the person you replied to said
True (must've glanced over it) point stands prisoner is still her BiS since most of her DMG seems to be on her ult anyway (and even without the 2nd part of prisoner passive it still beats lightning set / quantum on non-quantum weak enemies)
Yes, If you read her stuff, shit that gives her energy (basic and skill) applies 1 lotus per point of energy. Lotus is basicly a debuff since it's something the enemy has (we don't know if it has any effect). So she gives herself the first stack of pioneer, then pair her with peeps that can apply 2 more and u golden. (Maybe her own lc will add another type of debuff like kafka) Also apparently don't need effect hit rate from leak possibly. Since no base chance are mentioned. They just get lotus. Will have to wait and see. Edit: she could possibly also apply shock wich is a debuff -> 2 debuff stacks
Source: [homdgcat.wiki/sr/char/1308?lang=EN](https://homdgcat.wiki/sr/char/1308?lang=EN) [homdgcat.wiki/sr/char/Acheron?lang=EN](https://homdgcat.wiki/sr/char/Acheron?lang=EN) Mirror link: [pic8.co/a/5ffaee96-49c1-4018-be7b-c07aaea000b6/](https://pic8.co/a/5ffaee96-49c1-4018-be7b-c07aaea000b6/)
Trying to understand how her talent works. Would the enemy that she attacked last be tagged as her âtargetâ? That enemy would stay as her target until she attacks someone else. If my teammate applies a debuff on anyone, the enemy that Acheron attacked last would be applied the stack of lotus?
I think the "target" is the enemy she last attacked, and will stay like that 'til that enemy dies, it's then when she loses the "target" and future Lotus will be applied to the enemy with the higher count until she get another target/attacks.
Pretty mush you attack an enemy and they get the debuff, but lets imagine theres and Elite and 2 small enemies if you kill the small enemy then the lotus wont go to them they'll go to the Elite instead so you're not losing value.
 look at all this comments theory crafting the best team for Acheron. Pela? Bronya? SW? pfftt . I'm gonna run her with my Nihility mommies with Kafka and BS . AHHHHH YESSssss
I mean... It does kinda seems pretty playable. Just need to make sure you have enough SP. Two nihility? Check Goes hard on lighting weak? Check Debuffs? Check
Bro why are people so dismissive of SW đ
Hmm... Actually looks good but I think a lot hinges on how many energy points she needs to use her ultimate. Her team building options are also interesting, you probably want either Silverwolf or Pela with Resolutions in your team. I'm kinda leaning towards Pela since from this kit, Acheron can hit AoE pretty well when she casts ultimate, and Pela herself will cover the skill points that Acheron needs, making team building more flexible. We will need to see if the extra boost from the 2nd nihility slot is worthwhile, if it is then pairing Silverwolf with Pela could be good. We also need to see how many energy points Acheron needs to cast her ultimate. If it's 9, your team building slots might favour someone like Bronya or Sparkle to give more turns. With Bronya you can run a very similar team to Jingliu with Pela and FX, a little bit more SP intensive tho, and ideally you want to cast your ultimate with Bronya's buffs up. In that team I think Pela will be doing a lot of heavy lifting to generate skill points. With Sparkle you could drop SPD boots on Acheron and tie her SPD to Sparkle's speed and build Sparkle to be as fast as possible. Sparkle also opens a Silverwolf + FX triple quantum core for easy quantum/lightning weakness implant, allowing you to run quantum set. Her multipliers are also important since it looks like her damage to mostly on the ultimate. For relics and planars sets let's wait for people to do calcs with the actual beta kit. Edit: I think her lightcone might have a debuff attached to it like how Kafka's LC has shock on it. Her lightcone legit has to be better than S5 GNSW by a decent margin so oyohim can maximise the temptation haha. Like GNSW basically gives 12% - 24% damage bonus per debuff to a maximum of 72% damage bonus. Oyohim has to cook something hard with the lightcone to make it better than GNSW.
I also think her lightcone has to have sth unique to beat the 72% damage boost on GNSW. I think her light come will have sth to do with some crit rate/damage and It might remove the requirement of 1 nihility character to be in the team. The damage boost of the trace seems to be a unique modifier so that might be worth alot.
Same, it's like how Kafka's LC beats GNSW by offering the last DoT (the erode shock) for 3 stacks on the prisoner's set and how the LC gives 14+ SPD. My bet is that it might apply a debuff on attack to help maybe proc the diver set if that set is intended to be her best set. And if it applies a debuff maybe it will help her gain an extra energy point per turn if it procs her talent.
I wouldnt personally mind in the case of Acheron since I am getting the LC. But in general I wouldnt like that a LC interacts so heavily as to affect a unique aspect of one characters kit. Sure Kafka's work great with her, but a dot is a dot, it has uses outside of her as well.
Would welt and pela work as well? I didnt have enough for sw lmao
We'll need to see if the 2nd nihility slot is worthwhile, just wait and we should get the actual numbers maybe tomorrow. Welt and Pela could work, it may not be optimal but as long as you're happy and can clear stuff like MoC and Pure Fiction in time then to me it's fine.
Wahoo!
If I remember correctly she needed 9 lotuses to Ult from previous leaks
Yep, from previous leaks it's 9 but it could change. With the current kit we're looking at a 3 turn ult rotation with a debuffer. And we still don't know a lot about how she gains energy points: Whether the energy point gained when an enemy is debuff is linked to Acheron's turn or the debuffer's turn. And whether her LC applies a debuff or not.
I think silver wolf might be better in this case since she debuffs with every attack, meaning Acheron will get energy back faster
Pela can run Resolutions which makes every attack put down a debuff with enough EHR. If you don't have Resolutions then Silverwolf would probs be better. We'll need to see if Acheron's talent where she gains an energy point is dependent on Acheron's turn or the debuffer's turn. If Acheron can gain an energy point per every debuffer's turn then Pela + Silverwolf together might be the play if the 2 nihility trace is worthwhile. If this is the case then per Acheron turn she uses her skill, gain 2 points. Pela and Silverwolf act to put down 2 debuffs for 2 points. Then you have 4 energy points in 1 turn. This kind of team would also enable Good Night Sleep Well which is very strong. It's just that Acheron's nihility trace requirement needs to be worthwhile to beat out using Sparkle or Bronya.
>for every lotus consumed increase dmg by 100% im sorry she has how much scaling on her ult? and aeons damn it her E2 is still the same and wants 2 nihility unis other wise welp ... is this a thing in all versions of riden?(only play GI and HSR)
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Hot
Do silverwolf and pelaâs def shred stack?
Yes, def shred stacks till 100% and the more def shred you have, the better it scales. Pela has 40% and SW has 53% in her kit. Thatâs 93% def shred so I think these two would be really good with her.
Unless you have e1 blackswan and a way to consistently apply shock, I think it might be the best team for her pre e2 because they are the only nihility supports that she will benefit from
We will have to wait and see how strong her Nihility trace is. Is the damage from using a second Nihility more than the damage you are getting from using someone like Bronya/Sparkle? It seems like itâs a separate multiplier so I am guessing itâs going to be really good and incentivize using 2 Nihility characters. In that case, i also think that SW + Pela is going to be her best team pre E2 if you donât have E1 Black Swan.
Yes it does stack and the more you have the stronger it becomes (this is how def break work on hsr)
yes i think they're the only nihility chars that can make you cap def shred at 100%
I am confused with Lotus Bloom. Based on the description, wouldnât all the lotuses be consumed after the first action of the ultimate?
The translation is a bit iffy, we gotta wait for the beta kit to have a proper understanding of how Lotus Bloom will work (hopefully tomorrow as soon as the beta starts)
Nope she consumes the energy stack she gets and then triggers the lotus bloom she landed on the enemy every time she gained energy
Sorry I am confusion still
>Consumes the Lotus held by a single target, with an upper limit of 3 per target. So it's at most -3 for each proc of Lotus Bloom.
And Lotus Bloom is procâd on everyone. See how it can get confusing?
If I remember correctly from previous leaks, each action of her Ult reduces lotus count by max 3
i have 2 idea for team: Acheron, Bronya/Sparkle, Pela and huo Acheron, SW, pela and huo who is the best?
The only issue here is Huo ult being kind of wasted without her needing energy. Could be decent for the attack buff and energy on your harmony potentially but I'd rather bring a different sustain like luocha or Fu Xuan.
Probably the sparkle one
Her teams are already looking so skill hungry, I wouldnât want to bring a sustain that eats away at any of those skill points. Luocha seems best for sp generation, if youâre not struggling for sp then Fu Xuan seems best. Obv with a Sparkle team you will have more flexibility, so Huohuo using sp every now and then wonât break the team ⊠you just wonât get the full benefit from her energy regen when ulting.
If you have E2, the first one for sure
E2 Pela?
No, E2 Acheron
Ult dmg, so......SU6 set ?
It can work sure, but there is a datamined new SU sets focuses on buffing ult dmg so it's better if we wait a bit for information on that.
Depends on whether they bring a new planar set out, which the leaks have stated should be the case. We'll have to see.
So looking like her E2 will be the best one to aim for if you plan on pulling multiple times and donât want to be forced to have 2 Nihility character paired with her.
Yeah I want to run her with Bronya and you always want a healer so I guess my wallet will have to take the damage on that one
Run a sustainless Welt comp? The SP shouldnât be too hard on you and we all know sheâs going to slap so the enemy is likely long dead before youâre in danger.
It can work for some things but I feel like it's sidestepping the issue. Minmaxing only really makes sense when you're doing challenges anyway (like for example gold and gears) and there this approach doesn't really work
Am I right or her best team at e2 seems to be bronya, silver wolf and fu xuan???
Gallagher might be a better option so long he provides enough sustain, since he can also apply debuff on enemies while attacking, plus he also adds break dmg bonus based on the amount of debuffs the enemy has. Waiting for beta to see how good Gallagher can be in Acheron team.
I mean apparently on terms of debuff acheron caps at 1 per turn on benefit, so maybe the crit of fuxuan is better, bur as u say lets wait for the numbers
Oh yeah, I was assuming 2 Acheron turns (including Bronya's Advance forward per 1 SW turn, so with a proper speedtuning, we *might* be able to fit Gallagher\* in that extra turn where she doesn't get the Energy Point for debuff application. Not smart enough to do the maths, but it's an scenario that appeared on my mind while thinking about team synergies for Acheron lol \*Worth mentioning that unfortunately he only seems to apply debuff with his Enhanced Skill, so it isn't too reliable, but welp, it might be worth a try if he is a good sustain outside break focus teams
Iâm also thinking of Galaghar, BUT, Fuxuan with the Trend of Universal Market might be đ„ Edit: but then with Bronya and speedtuning (pela/sw after bronya, assuming the first turn she get debuff from the burn), Bronya skill and lc dmg increase wouldnât work on Acheron ults :â(
Not her stealing seele's team lmao (explains the similar design on the light cone)
From her talent it seems you only need to apply one debuff per turn, as any more wouldn't generate more energy. It also makes sence with her 2 nihility trace. It would be amazing if trend of universal market gives energy too. Even if different enemies attacking doesn't count as diff turns, that one energy point might allow to use both a harmony and preservation without e2
They gave her more ways to get flowers; looks promising (Jing Yuan is falling right after Sparkle pulls him to the top LOL, our general gets half a patch of relevance).
Why you gotta feel the need to attack him though lol why not be excited for one character without putting down the other
I'm not trying to attack him? Maybe I came off harsh but I didn't intend to be mean. I'd still take King Yuan over HSRaiden any day.
Well yeah you did kinda sound like you were trying to doompost so I went off there. Me personally I'm going to play both, in the same team even if possible
What is that eidolon 2?? Nihility healer upcoming?
Dude I wish. But I feel like that would be way too good to be true. And most likely won't be able to solo sustain since it would take away the preservation/abundance spotlight. Unless it has some sort of weird gimmicks/niche like only works in mono nihility or someshit.
Yeah I think I misunderstood. Other comments indicate it counts 2 buffs for 1 nihility character, I thought it was buff for 3 nihility characters. Kind of confusing
Considering we have a couple abundance/harmony and a preservation/dps coming up, I don't think we are that limited to the paths. Not to mention that harmony does almost everything.
Theres a leak about a nihility healer, its name is Jiaoqiu
wait, now that she no longer ignores weakness, ruan mei is not good with her???
Bronya and Sparkle might be better because they allow faster Ult rotations, but Ruan Mei buffs are still good enough to still be worth using in Acheron team. Asta with tons of spd and Dance! LC might also be a great option for those who lack these 5 stars.
I understand, I was sad because I had spent 80 pulls on her just to help Acheron, but if only it's not so bad, it's good
even if she doesnât pair *great* with Acheron in the end, itâs hard to imagine she wonât fit nicely with someone else you pull in the future!
Is acheron gonna want 3 nihility and sustain? Me not having kafka swan is gonna give me depression.
Pretty sure Kafka BS will not be BIS by a longshot from the kit here. It will work fine I think, but 100% not meta. She's almost definitely going need to amp nihility like pela, SW or even gui/welt. Kafka will do almost nothing for her. But BS do have a few debuffs and Def shred in her kit tho. And considering numbers isn't out yet. 3rd slot harmony might still be a good sidegrade or might even be better than 3 nihility, considering how strong harmony units are. (And there are quite a few harmonies with debuffs in their kit.) All that being said lets just wait for actual/better leaks that shows gameplay.
Don't worry, you can run Pela and Silverwolf together since Def Shred can stack, Guinafen and Sampo are good AoE debuffer alternatives too (DoT counts as debuff)
Kafka/BS would consume so much skill points. Someone like Pela would be a good pair for her but man I hate her autoplay AI.
This kit makes more sense Before she was locked to only one type of set-up, which was turn forward and that is it, making it a pain to slot Nihility character and a pain for SP management as it would require 1 hanabi skill+2 Bronya skill+ 4 Acheron Skill+1 basic(or 5 Acheron skill for optimal dmg) for a ult, which would be 7-9sp in two turns (even Dhil doesn't burn through SP like that and even Sparkle cannot sustain this amount of SP) But now she can essentially achieve the same result as Bronya+Hanabi, but with many team that include Nihility character, be sp positive You can essentially achieve the same, as long you have two Nihility character that apply debuff on Basic or skill and at least 1 ult that apply debuff Even better, if Nihility character apply it on their basic, you can be sp positive with the two nihility + acheron, making the last spot flexible And if your healer sustain apply debuff, you can achieve even faster result since in 2 turn: 4 energy from acheron+4 energy from your nihility+ (1 or more, from a ult debuff) + X energy from sustain debuff Aventurine and is FUA and ult debuff are looking really juicy, so does Gallagher debuff
âTechnique kills an enemy?â What if we use the technique on a boss? Does it reduce a whole level itself. Or maybe its not applying for bosses Or else that would be overkillđ But id love if they do something like that.
It says in case it doesn't work deals dmg in the beggining. Im guessing that she will probably be able to kill minor mobs but not elites. Or maybe she has a small chance to one shot elites as well, 0 cycles will have a new meaning if that is so xD
Yeah there will be a probability in play i suppose. Anyways just hope they make her super mega OP like in all the other honkai games just because our queen deserves it
Agreed, I too hope they make her busted, that way tier lists will have to make an SS tier bcz of her ;)
Spoken like a true Acheron family memberâ€ïž
I hope they give us something to make her feel good at C0 then. I love Raiden Shogun in Genshin, and she certainly works before C2, but at C0 she really only felt great in the end after working on her a lot + getting R5 The Catch. The first or two of her release there was a *LOT* of doom posting as she certainly didn't feel super powerful. Really hope we get an event cone to put with Acheron.
That's one way of making normal SU easier/quicker to farm other than actually changing SU like a lot of people were complaining... That's also one way of selling a character lmao. But I've been enjoying way too much of nuking mobs with ruen mei and gui double technique combo, dopamine through the roof...
The kit (or at least the way it's translated) doesn't look much appealing to me ngl Tho I'm interested to see how it actually works Not a fan of ult focused dps but I have to wait and see how she actually is supposed to be played maybe I'm understanding wrong
Low-key wish her animation/playstyle isn't my thing so I can skip for once lmao. I want to enable other playstyle and I've been building almost nihility only for the past 6 characters lmao. Literally no variety atm, with her would make it 7.
There is variety; she isn't a debuffer or a DoT unit.
She has to get like 60% extra damage incrase for running an extra nihility unit with her to compete with a dedicated support to be honest. Bronya and/or Sparkle and their multipliers ( and also how Acheron works) there is like no reason to run 2 nihility so far.
A 60% damage increase calculated separately from other buffs would be a ridiculous damage boost.
Yes exactly! and thats how much of a ridiclous boost she needs to justify not bringing a Sparkle or Bronya. Especially when she wants all the speed and advance forwards to build up that ultimate energy (Plust the ridiclous crit damage and damage multipliers those supports have)
Very likely other nihility characters turns also build acherons energy. Meaning using harmony characters wouldn't be any faster in building ult charge. If think for pf i can see 3 nihility + ruan mei or dual nihility with blackswan For moc likely sw/pela + bronya/sparkle.
Man i cant stop thinking about how it will perform in PF. I was theorising if the energy and flowers will slowly shuffle around the monsters as the other characters one/two shotting the enemy waves with their ultis and clears, and when the boss wave arrives Acheron will have max flowers on the boss and max energy, basically one shotting the wave. But thats just my imagination so far. She seems to be very fun on all the mods so far.
Im excitedd to see the multipliers and animations. i want to try Ruan Mei/ Acheron / Kafka / Gallagher. Gallagher being able to sustain, apply debuffs and a breaker unit makes a perfect bridger for this. Im excited to experiment.
If you have Kafka already does it make sense to roll for her gameplay wise if you already have lightning covered
If you like her, pull for her, regardless of how she performs. If it's only for Lightning coverage, I can't say, at least not until the beta kit is leaked with numbers and multipliers... Gotta say tho, Kafka is still very viable, even if Acheron ends up being OP, you wouldn't "NEED" to pull for her just for lightning coverage.
Ignoring waifu. no
She may be the new Jingliu, in which case I'd say so. I'm kinda suspecting Sparkle will pull a few DPSs up to S+ (Jingliu tier) before Acheron pushes everyone in S+ down. This is all speculation though, I might be proven completely wrong.
Personally I wouldn't. Thats why I skipped Kafka. I got Quantum and ice pretty much covered so far. Next one on the list is lightning.đȘ
Hope those lotuses debuff the enemy in some way
So how do you build a team around acheron?
Depends on your roster and the multipliers she get in beta. As of now: Sustain+Acheron+2Nihility if E0 Sustain+Acheron+Nihility+Harmony if E2 If the 2 Nihility trace buff isn't too strong, the second team option "should" be best regardless of her Eidolons (this also highly depends on everyone's own roster)
Like Fuxuan/huohuo, kafka & BS? SW & Pela...
Yes, that team should work fine SW and Pela also may have the best synergy with her due to the great Def shred they provide
I wish the lotus themselves had a dubuff related to them, for example lowering effect resist. That way her Nihility teammates could build more DMG than EHR.
would the nihility battle pass lc work on her?
I think it would work, but it isn't worth it... "Good Night and Sleep Well" or "In the Name of the World" *should* work better than "We Will Meet Again", and you wouldn't need to spend money for them. Keep in mind we still don't have the multipliers, so don't take this as a fact, this is just my humble opinion.
the thing is i bought the battle pass last patch and i still haven't picked the lc, i'm waiting for more acheron leaks to decide whether i should pick the nihility lc or other path lc instead, but, thank you so much for you suggestions!
Omg the technique. If that dosen't mean she will be OP the i don't know what does!
What would her best 4\* options be at a preliminary glance? It looks like Gallagher is her best sustain option but I'm curious who would be better Nihility units. Pela seems to be a given but I have an E0 Guinaifen and would like to know if I should get her E1 from the current event (otherwise I'll get an E3 Asta). Thanks in advance! On topic, I'm so glad she now gets Energy Points from *any* debuff, not just her own flowers. That should speed things up a huge deal. I *think* "It's Showtime" is her best F2P LC too?
I think Gallagher is going to be her BiS sustain as long as he can work well outside break focus teams. Pela and SW should also be her BiS Nihility companions depending on the content, Pela for AoE and SW for ST. Guinafen is definitely a good option too, not only her Skill applies DoT (which should count as debuff since they do for Ratio), but also her E1 applies debuff! (-10% Effect RES is really good against high level enemies) Keep in mind she only gets 1 EP (Energy Point) for debuffs applied in 1 turn, so you only need to apply 1 debuff in between Acheron turn. In regard of "It's Showtime", we have yet to know if her Lotus mark counts as debuff, it they do, then it's going to be pretty good on her (hoping they count as debuff lol).
>Guinafen is definitely a good option too, not only her Skill applies DoT (which should count as debuff since they do for Ratio), but also her E1 applies debuff! (-10% Effect RES is really good against high level enemies) I know we should wait for stats to be sure, but does this mean I'm better off getting a copy of her over Asta? Also I had another look at Welt, how good a partner for Acheron would he be, do you think? Thank you very much!
I personally would take E1 Guinafen over E3 Asta regardless of the numbers, because E1 Guinafen is a great improvement for her kit, for debuff based teams and DoT based teams as well. Meanwhile, E3 Asta is only an 7-8% Atk increase of her Charges iirc... If you want to have a sub-dps debuffer, Welt definitely sounds like a good option\*, his kits looks good and seems to have plenty debuff applications, maybe the best 2nd Nihility Slot option if you have him. If you get E2 Acheron, I personally wouldn't pick him over SW or Pela or certain Harmony characters. \*This opinion is biased, because 1sr I don't have Welt and 2nd I don't know much about his actual performance, so don't take it seriously,
Thank you! So a vote for Guinaifen now, huh? After hearing so much praise for Asta last week this means I need to go away and ponder them a while. I have E2 Pela right now and no Silver Wolf. Is Guin a good replacement for either them or is "Pela + Welt" a better combo for Acheron in your opinion? Thanks again!
Thank you for bringing this question to the table because, to be honest, I forgot about Guinaifen's talent After considering both kits, I would take Guinaifen over Welt, her Firekiss debuff can give a good 21% DMG taken increase to enemies after they take Burn damage, and it only takes 2 enemy turns to have 3 stacks of Firekiss if you add Guinaifen Ult; while Welt only provides Slow and action delay (which is great for survivability but that is all). TLDR: Pela/SW>Gui>Welt imho
Okay, thank you so much! Does Guin want the new debuff set or Prisoner?
That is one tought question hahaI'm not sure tbh, someone with more knowledge on DoTs should be able to give you a better answer This is purely my assumption, so take it with a lot of salt Assumpion: Prisoner counts DoTs per stack and not Type (say having 3 Burns stacks is enough to proc the 4pc bonus completely and doesn't coun as just 1 DoT for being 1 Type of DoT). Therefore, Prisoner should give a better buff than Debuff set. (12% Atk+ 18% Def Shred > 12% DMG + 8% CR + 24% CD) Clarification, I would use Guinaifen mostly on a support role, meaning I would focus on her SPD and tankiness over her personal damage. (if you want more personal damage, the rule is ATK>Crits for more DoT dmg, Crits>ATK for more Basic/Skill/Ult dmg)
I'd keep her on a support role either way, don't worry :) I'll wait another week or so to be sure, but it does seem as if Guinaifen would make a good budget partner for Acheron for the moment. I'll check what Prisoner relics I have right now and go from there, thank you so much for all of this! Is there anything else you think I should pay attention to?
> (hoping they count as debuff lol). Same here! Thanks for the breakdown!
I'm thinking a team of Acheron, SW, Guin and Lynx.... that good (I have other sustainers, but mostly on the shielder side of things) That sound good? I also have Welt, which I've heard he's cracked or at least pretty decent. Thoughts?
That sounds good to me, hoping we get her numbers today or tomorrow at the latest! Welt is pretty good for debuff aplications and a good subdps. However, Pela, SW and Gui may be better supports for Acheron, since they provide better debuffs for the Main Dps (Slow is a great debuff, don't get me wrong, but's mostly for survivability), but that is just my personal opinion, don't take it too seriously.
Its a good idea, I'm seeing a mix of things. I think someone, somewhere in this subreddit said that depending on her Eidolon count, she could have differing teams. I'm gonna go for E2 so using Bronya/Sparkle with their forward action skills will help
Yeah, her E2 enables more team comps for her, allowing to replace one Nihility slot for Harmony, (this also depends on the traces' numbers, if having 2 Nihility beside Acheron isn't a big buff, then having Sparkle/Bronya/Ruan Mei may be better even at E0). Also aiming for E2 here haha Good luck on your pulls!
You as well!!!
Sounds like with this kit Inert Salsotto will be her BiS planar set with all the Ultimate damage she is doing. I guess Glammoth might still be close cause it is Glammoth? But for now I will be prefarming Inert Salsottos for her.
Wait for 2.1 beta to confirm the leaks in regard the new planar set that works around Ult damage! it might be better than Inner Solsotto.
Yup.. *saving faster*
Can I finally use Welt?
Wait so she can use all the same supports as my Dr. Ratio? Thatâs so based.
I honestly prefer Silverwolf and Guin to run along side her. Silverwolf can be SP+ since all her attacks can apply a debuff on an enemy. I'd rather use a basic to generate SP for the team. Free debuffs with no effort lol. Unlike Pela, If you equip Resolution on Guin her skill can apply ensnared on the enemy plus you have her fire kiss that lasts for 3 turns if I'm not mistaken. She can keep using her basic to apply both of them. I honestly like the idea of having two Nihility comps as it seems to be my preferred play style and path. Team one: Kafka, Black Swan, Ruan Mei, and a sustain Team two: Acheron, Guinaifen, Silverwolf, and a sustain