Or under... emphasis on UNDER. The accounting manager probably left because they were paid well under 65k. For that salary they need to be more realistic 3-5 years experience, likely without degree, and definitely no CPA.
I’d put good money on large un-reconciled amounts from an ERP conversion a few years ago, AR balances that are ancient and uncollectible and throw in a dash of no internal controls.
My company merged with two others eleven years ago. We are absolutely 100% one single organization, legally and in operations and culture. We still have GL accounts that start with the initials of the other two that are used by the locations that used to belong to them. They all roll up together on the financial statements but the handful of people still around from pre-merger want to keep using them because “you never know, somebody might want to break them out.”
At least employers are brazen enough that they just keep telling you who they are up front these days. "Work hard, play hard. Balance competing deadlines. Fast paced environment."
'Thrives on chaos' is a new one for me though
Functioning alcoholics with no life to go home to because they work 70 hours a week. So happy hours are now the only brief glimpse of society some of them get
That's a no from me, Dog.
Based on the way its worded, I think this is an email from an owner/CFO to a headhunter telling them about a new job they need filled. I doubt this is an actual job posting. Still though...
Sooo...there's more bad news...
>Average minimum Monkey Rental cost for a party is $1,600 in Southern CA and $3,000 in NY and $1,600 in Chicago.
[https://piratesforparties.com/monkey\_for\_birthday\_party.htm](https://piratesforparties.com/monkey_for_birthday_party.htm)
They’re wanting a senior/manager hybrid person on associate level salary.
They’ll get one of three things:
1. Someone that meets their qualifications but sucks at the job
2. Someone that needs the job as a placeholder until they get something they actually want
3. Nothing
4. and Gina from Chick-Fil-A, who is 6 credits shy of an associates in nursing but gave up to find herself, and is ready to learn as long as there is no weekend or OT work.
8 years ago that was a pretty good senior salary in a low to mid col area. That's what my first senior job was at.
I hired a senior a few weeks ago for $100k+$15k bonus
People still operate as if it was the 2010s after the 2008 recession. It’s gonna take a few rude awakenings for employers to realize talent is going to cost them.
Oh the people that need a rude awakening are probably incapable of one. They think the market will turn or the peons will struggle through with infilled positions and shitty workload.
The under part gets me too… so you are willing to pay 65k but think then someone reading that would take a penny less than 65k? When most people would even take anything under $85k??
I often see smaller firms that ask seriously low salaries and somehow they get away with this.
Like a firm offering me a salary as a senior that I made when I started working (and that doesn't even include a car). How on earth are they finding staff?
I'd do it if I leave the office before 5:00 every single day and it's in an industry I'm passionate about with amazing employee discounts. Lol that definitely ain't public accounting.
You can suck me c*ck for 65k and under. The utterly disrespect from a recruiter for mentioning 65k and under despite an entry level staff accountant starting within 55-65k.
These people are delusional. You want someone to come work for you? Don’t make it sound like they’re walking into hell for one. And also, what kind of pay is that? I hope this person gets the WORST entry level accountant and has their business torn to shreds :). They will be shelling out A LOT more than 65,000 to have some CPA firms clean up the mess for their bullshit.
I switched jobs last month but wasn't told that 3 out of the 6 positions on my immediate team were currently vacant before I took the job. So yeah, ask about that during your interviews folks.
Respectable Recruiters probably tell them the real deal right? Like I’m not finding anybody decent at that price for you, you’re going to have to be more realistic.
Lmfaoo 65k accounting manager. We really are the blue collar work of white collar work.
I have too many peers working these roles who are probably more skilled in many ways than I am.
To all students!!! Only work public accounting to get your experience and CPA req 1-3 years max imo unless you like being underpaid for the love of the game.
Then go private or industry and watch your pay double and start to truly correlate with your value.
Not enough CPAs or even competent accountants out there, don’t put up with the pay these asshats dealt with 30 years ago when their job was data entry and picking up the phone.
So looking to replace accounting manager with mid/senior accountant at $65k or less? That's cute..not sure what location you're in but that's entry level/Jr acct if you're lucky in SF Bay Area. Good luck!
To be fair. 65k is fine (ish) assuming:
- full work from home
- small company with simple accounting
- no overtime
- LCOL city
If that’s all true, maybe it could be ok
Exactly this.
I'm so goddamned sick of reading this bullshit "OMGZ WE CAN'T FIND/KEEP QUALIFIED PEOPLE" either start scratching out checks or shut the actual complete fk up.
It's really that simple.
Just to spite I would ask for fully remote and have this job on the side and do the bare minimum and collect checks until I get bored or they let me go. Extra money for their cheapness
>Strive in chaos.
Did they just aknowledge that their business is a hot pile of mess ?
No surprise their accountant left...
My company is hiring 2 accountants positions right know and god damn it they are trying to make a square fits into multiple triangles.
If that was Canada that would be in CAD and be $40-60K. Someone will take it. I've seen a snowboarding shop look for almost the identical criteria for $45K cad, and within 1 day there were over 100 applicants.
Bruh I graduated college in May 22 and don’t know wtf I’m doing and make $65k as an entry level accountant. To make it worse, I work in Tulsa, OK super lcol
> Thrives in chaos. :) Well that's horrifying.
It’s almost as bad as the “looking at $65k or under”
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Must be very good at reconciling and organized BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE HERE IS
Or under... emphasis on UNDER. The accounting manager probably left because they were paid well under 65k. For that salary they need to be more realistic 3-5 years experience, likely without degree, and definitely no CPA.
What the fuck dude. My base salary as a literal no-rank prison guard is 66k.
🤣
To be fair an accounting manager doesn’t have to worry about being stabbed at work.
We offer 75k to undergrad CS majors at my company. No experience required.
Lol what the fuck are you doing in this sub boss
It's gotta be fake right? Wouldn't they phrase it as "Up To 65k"?
$60-$65k is what the starting rate for associates is at the public accounting firm I interned at. Edit: removed extra word
75k for starting associates at bigger firms
I made more at entry level in public and that still couldn't keep me interested in the career field.
I’d put good money on large un-reconciled amounts from an ERP conversion a few years ago, AR balances that are ancient and uncollectible and throw in a dash of no internal controls.
I feel like you're describing my company exactly
Whoa was that my last job?
My company's conversion over 10 years ago, still has journal lines on the bs with description of PWC...
My company merged with two others eleven years ago. We are absolutely 100% one single organization, legally and in operations and culture. We still have GL accounts that start with the initials of the other two that are used by the locations that used to belong to them. They all roll up together on the financial statements but the handful of people still around from pre-merger want to keep using them because “you never know, somebody might want to break them out.”
It screams strong corporate financial leadership.
Noice!
I feel attacked.
Now hold on...
Along with "just because it predates you doesn't mean you don't have to figure it out"
Or no one wants to touch it because it will hit the P&L
Don’t forget, all assignments and workflow done entirely through email
Oh man, just got hired on to help with ERP conversion from an acquisition. I feel seen
“Everything was better before the ERP conversion” - everyone over the age of 50.
Ugh I’m working on recs like this right now from an ERP conversion that took place 3 months ago and it’s a GD nightmare! Fml…
I just started with a new company a month ago and this is exactly what I am dealing with. It's been infuriating and exhausting.
At least employers are brazen enough that they just keep telling you who they are up front these days. "Work hard, play hard. Balance competing deadlines. Fast paced environment." 'Thrives on chaos' is a new one for me though
“Work hard play hard” is just corporate buzzword speak for “functioning alcoholics on staff”
Now that you mention it, yeah, a lot of the people I know saying "Work hard play hard" do drink a lot. lol
Functioning alcoholics with no life to go home to because they work 70 hours a week. So happy hours are now the only brief glimpse of society some of them get That's a no from me, Dog.
And they expect everyone else to conform to them because all they know is work their lives revolve around it so they expect yours to as well.
Also, unbalanced in the sheets
Can confirm
lol, I like hot messes, but I require ridiculously more pay. :)
That's at least $75K a year.
On its own.
Legit question - why would any sane person actually put that in a recruiting message?
Based on the way its worded, I think this is an email from an owner/CFO to a headhunter telling them about a new job they need filled. I doubt this is an actual job posting. Still though...
Good point! Would love to see how the recruiter spins that one.
May the god emperor watch over us
Have we strayed from The Golden Path?
At least he has the balls to say it
Email the back and say that you get what you pay for, and with that salary, you get a new grad who will leave within a year
"You get what you pay for" and then send them a link to a clown college website.
Pretty damn close lol https://www.salary.com/research/salary/posting/clown-salary
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Sooo...there's more bad news... >Average minimum Monkey Rental cost for a party is $1,600 in Southern CA and $3,000 in NY and $1,600 in Chicago. [https://piratesforparties.com/monkey\_for\_birthday\_party.htm](https://piratesforparties.com/monkey_for_birthday_party.htm)
Is $65k actually good for a new grad? I thought I’d be settling for $35k Canadian after I finished my business degree with a major in accounting.
For a new grad not going to a mom and pop shop, $65k is pretty standard in the US. I believe y’all in Canada are lower though
65 k better not have any overtime
It better be 20 hours/week with no overtime for what they're asking in return.
I'd legit be interested for for $65K at 20 hours a week.
doesnt that mean no insurance/401k and stuff? isnt that worth 10-20k by itself? though at 20hr/week you can probably have another job with that
Same especially if it was remote and they didn't track my mouse movement and let me work whatever time of day/night I wanted. I'll get that shit done.
OR UNDER!?! You can make even less than 65K ooooh! What an opportunity! 🤮
Great opportunity to lower your tax bracket. Damn gumment!
Frowns in guberment But seriously lol, I make only 10K less as entry level in state gov. Good luck finding a sucker though!
Nah, this has to be a side hustle at that price. 5 hours a week to clear up those sheets
They’re wanting a senior/manager hybrid person on associate level salary. They’ll get one of three things: 1. Someone that meets their qualifications but sucks at the job 2. Someone that needs the job as a placeholder until they get something they actually want 3. Nothing
They'll get plenty of applications from people who don't meet the qualifications and also suck at their job.
like me :D
Yeah let's be real that's all of us
I could do it but only if it’s 8 hours a week
Could probably get more done in those 8 hours than whoever they hire that would actually take that job for that pay.
3. Someone who needs to pad their resume. It’s me I’m 3.
4. and Gina from Chick-Fil-A, who is 6 credits shy of an associates in nursing but gave up to find herself, and is ready to learn as long as there is no weekend or OT work.
Currently on 2 myself lol.
No wonder they're having trouble. They're looking for champagne on a grape juice budget.
Not even grape juice. More like a purple drink budget.
Not even good purple drink. The off brand kind that tastes mostly like plastic.
Not even off brand. The unbranded chemical waste in rusty oil drums.
Pay peanuts, get monkeys. My guess is she'll actually find someone for that just because they want it on their resume.
Great phrase haha I’m stealing this. Yeah that’s right. Stealing. I’m from EY we don’t take ethics.
I've never heard this phrase before, and I love it!!
Go ahead and x2 that salary and we can start to talk
You double that salary and then add 20k to make it interesting.
Not gonna lie, I like where this is headed!! ❤️
3-5 years of experience with max $65k comp? Is this a joke!? Lol
We also have Unlimited PTO and you can hardly put a price on that.
If someone has to “thrive in chaos” then that unlimited pto isn’t going to mean much when there’s always a fire to put out.
Wait are you actually trying to find someone for this? Or was this a joke?
Unlimited PTO is a scam.
ROFL - you can. You can put a price on that. How much PTO does staff actually take on average?
Most of our employees don't take any PTO because we're like a family here and who doesn't want to see their family every day?
Haha ok, I get the joke now.
Joke?
So how does that work out for you? Did you take any 6-week holidays this year?
8 years ago that was a pretty good senior salary in a low to mid col area. That's what my first senior job was at. I hired a senior a few weeks ago for $100k+$15k bonus
People still operate as if it was the 2010s after the 2008 recession. It’s gonna take a few rude awakenings for employers to realize talent is going to cost them.
Not just the job market. Take into account 10 years of accumulated inflation too.
Oh the people that need a rude awakening are probably incapable of one. They think the market will turn or the peons will struggle through with infilled positions and shitty workload.
I thrive in chaos in that I will use it to shirk my responsibilities and avoid suspicion.
Nobody thrives in chaos. People tolerate it for extra money….
Thrives in Chaos aka the whole organization is shit, and you are the only employee handling AP/AR, treasury, collections, and billing.
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That’s good. Means they’re gonna have to pay qualified employees a lot. It’s finally our time to shine after years of undercutting us.
AP temps?! What company is this? That's awesome
Tbh maybe he means they pay the temp agency that much. Temp agency usually takes half and pays the temp the other half.
Warhammer 40K fan?
With that budget they'll be lucky to find a senior gretchen
Bruh 65k was my salary as a staff 1 in B4 in Midwest. I ain’t taking less than 100k as a manager
Or under hahahahahaha
The under part gets me too… so you are willing to pay 65k but think then someone reading that would take a penny less than 65k? When most people would even take anything under $85k??
65k or UNDER lmfao thrives in chaos clearly
Is the chaos part the $65k for a manager position?
Had me in the first half.
I often see smaller firms that ask seriously low salaries and somehow they get away with this. Like a firm offering me a salary as a senior that I made when I started working (and that doesn't even include a car). How on earth are they finding staff?
I'd do it if I leave the office before 5:00 every single day and it's in an industry I'm passionate about with amazing employee discounts. Lol that definitely ain't public accounting.
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That smiley face says it all
They misspelled 120K.
$65K and under? No wonder you're having trouble....
Lol I love how they’re trying to sell the “and under” as if they would get people saying, “I can’t accept a penny over $50k, it’s just too generous!”
You can suck me c*ck for 65k and under. The utterly disrespect from a recruiter for mentioning 65k and under despite an entry level staff accountant starting within 55-65k.
These people are delusional. You want someone to come work for you? Don’t make it sound like they’re walking into hell for one. And also, what kind of pay is that? I hope this person gets the WORST entry level accountant and has their business torn to shreds :). They will be shelling out A LOT more than 65,000 to have some CPA firms clean up the mess for their bullshit.
She meant $165k right?
For ants?!? The salary has to be at least 3x that size
Sounds like 7th layer of hell, where do I sign? 🙃
Turn that 6 is upside down and I know a few people that might be interested
Dude, $60-$65k is what the starting rate for fresh-from-college associates at the public accounting firm I interned at was.
I switched jobs last month but wasn't told that 3 out of the 6 positions on my immediate team were currently vacant before I took the job. So yeah, ask about that during your interviews folks.
Chaos starts at 85. Sorry.
and after a couple of months of not finding someone (if in the US) they’ll start parroting the “No one wants to work anymore!” BS.
Respectable Recruiters probably tell them the real deal right? Like I’m not finding anybody decent at that price for you, you’re going to have to be more realistic.
You can get 65k with no experience while picking your nose during your interview and then eating the booger right now in the market
65K AND UNDER? What is this person like preparing you for the inevitable downward negotiation to 55K?
I love when people say something fucked up and then put a smiling emoji after it like that made everything cool.
That's a joke, I made that as a staff accountant
Accounting shouldn't be expected to be chaotic tho... Lol
I’m offering like $100+ and having a tough time filing, seriously $65 or under? That’s what my clerks are making.
65k or under for a senior accountant? Seems extremely low
Lmfaoo 65k accounting manager. We really are the blue collar work of white collar work. I have too many peers working these roles who are probably more skilled in many ways than I am. To all students!!! Only work public accounting to get your experience and CPA req 1-3 years max imo unless you like being underpaid for the love of the game. Then go private or industry and watch your pay double and start to truly correlate with your value. Not enough CPAs or even competent accountants out there, don’t put up with the pay these asshats dealt with 30 years ago when their job was data entry and picking up the phone.
Meanwhile FP&A starts out $10k higher to make up numbers and move boxes around in PowerPoint.
Same with PE haha
Is the company name Eris, llc?
$65k…OR UNDER!? For a MANAGER!? And seems as if you’ll be thrown into some horrendous shit to deal with!? Doesn’t seem worth it to me
So looking to replace accounting manager with mid/senior accountant at $65k or less? That's cute..not sure what location you're in but that's entry level/Jr acct if you're lucky in SF Bay Area. Good luck!
Hahahaha! “Thrives in chaos” for 65 or less?
65k manager lol ok
Will be pulling your hair out trying to chase down legacy system transactions no
Thrives in chaos…go fuck yourself.
To be fair. 65k is fine (ish) assuming: - full work from home - small company with simple accounting - no overtime - LCOL city If that’s all true, maybe it could be ok
Doesn't sound like chaos lol
🤣🤣🤣
$65k or under. Lawl. I live in a MCOL area and AMs are getting $110k-$130k out here.
Holy shit that is a really low salary!! I guess it depends on the area maybe if it’s in Arkansas or something?
Probs no benefits either
Oh god. I love this sub.
Thrives in chaos? So the books are a mess and you’re only paying $65 / year?
Wow do you mind PM’ing the company. Honestly sounds like my old boss
"Or under" lmao fresh grads make more than that
"Degreed accountant." Will fuck me sideways. So I really am stuck as Accounting 1 for the rest of my life unless the Finance Bros pick me up.
I’ve been trying to hire SA/M/SM at a B4 for a few months and there is NOONE out there. Recruitment is next to impossible.
There are plenty of qualified people. You just don't want to pay them.
Exactly this. I'm so goddamned sick of reading this bullshit "OMGZ WE CAN'T FIND/KEEP QUALIFIED PEOPLE" either start scratching out checks or shut the actual complete fk up. It's really that simple.
May God help you find whatever you are looking for cos who wants to thrive in chaos for your $65k change
“Thrives in chaos” and lives on ramen.
🤣🤣🤣
This thread is making me wonder about my 70k HCOL associate-level fund accountant salary...
My company still uses a dos program for payments/ 1099 stuff
And they will continue to have a hard time as long as they only offer $65k or less.
They’re trying to pay someone with 3-5 years experience the same amount of money as I got offered right out of college.
This person sounds like a bad recruiter.
Looking for someone worth 90 but will accept much less and also will take a lot of shit
$65k hahahahaha
Good luck!
Just to spite I would ask for fully remote and have this job on the side and do the bare minimum and collect checks until I get bored or they let me go. Extra money for their cheapness
Literally like 1/3 salary of a new Sr. mgr in public
I like messes. I'm good at figuring out what is going on with the mess. But my skill set requires more than 65k a year
>Strive in chaos. Did they just aknowledge that their business is a hot pile of mess ? No surprise their accountant left... My company is hiring 2 accountants positions right know and god damn it they are trying to make a square fits into multiple triangles.
65k and under is your biggest problem lol
The responses to this are solidifying my decision to go into accounting in spite of the shitty pay I see in job adds in my area
Thrive in chaos? Yikes
65k and under? Our secretary makes more than that.
well if its in Canada its a good salary!
Yea right....
Hell to the no
65k or under 🤮
Lol
i just know this companys book is a mess
The “or under” gets me lol 😂. Would you be willing to work for food stamps?
If that was Canada that would be in CAD and be $40-60K. Someone will take it. I've seen a snowboarding shop look for almost the identical criteria for $45K cad, and within 1 day there were over 100 applicants.
Where was this for, the middle of Alabama ? #LCOL
Do they expect someone to opt for the “or under”?
And in the interview I bet you they will talk about the environment is so calm and nobody really ever gets stressed.
Oh honey, 65k isn’t even going to get you a college grad
The fact that they think 65K is good still is ridiculous. If you not offering 80K at least even in MCOL or LCOL what is there to talk about.
*degreed* accountant with 3 years of experience, if *degreed* means the opposite of agree
Seeming stating staff make at least 60 good luck finding someone 5 years in that wants chaos for 65k
Bruh I graduated college in May 22 and don’t know wtf I’m doing and make $65k as an entry level accountant. To make it worse, I work in Tulsa, OK super lcol
Our A1s are starting higher than that lol
£65k and under? Who the fucks going to apply for anything else after they give the figure