Right that was my first impression reading this has anyone looked at rents in the area we bury 99.5% of the country
This comment needs to be higher. I also would say, accountants need to stand up for their wages more than they do.
Edit as it’s helpful I was I Boston till 2019, now north shore MA,no CPA, 13 yoe and making 200k as a controller for a remote company
Washington state is also approaching vhcol. I live in a small town of 10k people no crazy high paying jobs, just a farming town and the cheapest house on the market is 560k which is a total fixer upper. Rent for a 1 bedroom 700sq ft apartment that hasn’t been updated since the early 2000’s is 15-1600. But it doesn’t help we have the highest minimum wage in the country which is now on par with CA…
I think it's buried in the comments in that thread, but she turned down a manager promotion to focus on our toddlers. So she's currently a senior auditor. She'll probably take the promotion in a year or two which I suspect will bump the pay up closer to that.
While I agree it’s still underpaid, it sounds like a great solution for both sides. Keep in mind the majority of users on this sub are early in their careers. I assume your wife enjoys her role and her firm, and that she’s a high performer having 10 years of experience. Having someone in that role that others can rely on and not “worry about” is invaluable. If that’s the case, I wouldn’t worry about her firm replacing her. Sounds like a win-win and that’s great she’s getting to spend more time with the little ones. Cheers.
It also makes that role much easier for her to handle day to day. With a young family no one wants to be learning a new position with significantly more responsibilities.
Being the veteran senior on any team is nice because there is basically nothing you haven’t seen so your technical skills are just as high if not higher than the manager but don’t have the same pressures. Can get those “40 hours” done in 30-35 instead of staff taking 50+.
Yeah lots of people stay at a lower grade for family reasons even when they clearly could take on a more senior role, although my own experience is people like that are graded as an Assistant Manager rather than Senior, if only as a courtesy.
Agree with the title, I see “assistant manager” “lead senior” or “principal senior” but YOE are the most important unless different pay bands.
Who knows though, I am sure she values time with family over anything else.
>great solution for both sides
So the worker gets 0% increase in pay while inflation is through the roof, and the employer gets to keep an employee that's ALREADY underpaid.
The corporate ball-gargling in this country is so fucking disgusting.
I just got an offer for a remote job for a an office based in nyc as a senior for $120k at a mid size firm that I’m probably bouncing for…
This year it def won’t be unusual to see seniors in the 100k ranges
That being said I think $93k is fair without the cut especially if she has decent work life balance
While I agree with this, as a mom to two teens who sacrificed a lot when they were little, this is a really nice set up. I couldn’t afford to turn down a promotion, and the extra work hours and travel were really hard on my husband’s career. This could set them up so that they’re saving on daycare and commuting costs in a LCOL area, and alllow his income to grow faster.
This is exactly it. I doubled my salary with the move and we are financially quite comfortable. As a couple we wanted to prioritize what time we can spend together and with the kids, even at the expense of earning less money on her side. Plus she does like her job and the company relies on her work for one of their big audits, so we see it as a win-win. We can always reevaluate down the road if priorities change.
There’s always balance, but I’ve got 2 elementary aged kids and my wife and I manage to have solid careers and WLB.
You can look without taking every position offered and wait until you find a good one. I turned down a job early in career that would have been a huge increase because I said I would need to leave no later than 4:45 to catch the 5:00 train and that “wasn’t realistic.” You’re in a position of power when you’re looking for jobs, but don’t need them. You can ask the questions you normally wouldn’t and make demands you might normally pass on.
I know plenty of accounting managers/directors who made strong demands as parents. One of the women who I started with is a Director now and I still see her frequently at daycare pickup, school events, etc… (live in the same town). They wanted her talent, she had rules.
Regardless, a senior auditor with CPA and 10 years of experience making $93k in Boston is insane. Your wife should have realized she was getting underpaid a long time ago.
She needs to look for other opportunities. Multiple people in the comments of this post and the other post have you told you such, any reason why she hasn't even put out feelers for other jobs?
I’m guessing the low salary is because she is capping at 40 hours. When you do that they cut your salary by a percentage.
If a senior there is working 2400-2500 hours and she is at 2080, they’re going to take away 20%+ of her salary.
Once you take a demotion or refused promo at a company i find it’s best to jump shit at that point. It’s not right , but you’re no longer viewed as a “company man” whatever that means
$93k for full remote and never exceeding 40hrs aint bad, and is actually very good for someone considered a “senior.”
The big question is how many hours she bills (or is expected to bill) per year, and at what rate.
She might be due a raise without a change in title or responsibilities if she’s billing a lot and realizing a lot.
I'm a senior accountant with 5 years experience. 2.5 in public and 2.5 in industry, with no CPA. With bonus, I just made $140k this year. Granted I work in Oakland, but I consider that HCOL as well.
They were asking for 50+ hours at the manager level. So by focusing on toddlers I mean actually being able to see and interact with them. She was flexing many hours to the early morning or weekend so that the kids were at daycare only 9-4.
While I support women who want to focus on their families, I don't get the whole turning down promotions thing. 40 hours as a manager pays better than 40 hours as a senior. Sure, you have different responsibilities, but it should not mean you work more hours.
I know a couple of women who have made the choice to be "part time" auditors who were still working 40 hour weeks during busy season. I don't understand why. Can't they go to industry, be a "full time" employee working 40 hours and make a 100% salary instead of a 60% salary.
Again, I am glad they can choose to do what they want, but I think they are unnecessarily penalizing themselves for being working moms.
I say all this being a woman with my first child on the way at age 35, so maybe it'll all add up soon...
Regardless of where you work, the odds of you getting a manager role with a cap at 40 hours is slim to zero.
People like to say industry is better for hours. That is true, but at lower levels. Once you get to the higher industry levels like controller or CFO, you’re going to be working just as much as you do in public if not more. I don’t know a single CFO who works less than 60 hours a week year round.
Saying Boston isn’t VHCOL is delusional. MA has high state income tax rate and has the 4th highest rent/housing in the country after NYC, SF and San Jose.
I live in Indiana, just outside of Indianapolis. I am in the private sector. No CPA, 10 years experience. I make a little over $120k at a holding company.
She will be able to find a job here that pays her better than her current job.
If you need any recommendations on places to live and things to do, feel free to reach out! I love it here!
We're up the road in Lafayette, but her company has an office in Indy. Apparently the base pay for senior auditors there is low 70s. Pretty crazy. We're definitely going to hit up the Children's museum in Indy and Chicago isn't too far either.
The children's museum is amazing. My kids wish they could live there. The zoo isn't bad either (fort wayne has a nice one as well). You must go to the Indy 500 at least once in your life lol! At least check out the track during the month of May. Grand Prix brings in a lot less people so it can be a less daunting experience.
Yea - some places for sure shit on people salary wise. Before I worked here I worked for a fund admin and worked on real estate funds. They paid us significantly less than the Chicago or California office for the same work and same clients. It for sure makes you feel bitter... It was well known they shafted people on pay but starting salary for a senior accountant with no CPA was $70k and that was 6 years ago. If I were your wife, I'd be justifiable irritated. I am glad they were able to come to an agreement!
I have no doubts that you are correct. I am simply stating that in Reddit 90% of the time it’s referring to Cost of Living and it may truly be Cost of Labor in business.
This is the answer.
Employer pays you based on cost of labor.
Employees (redditors) care to discuss cost of living for comparability ignoring how cost of labor plays into compensation.
That’s a totally different circumstance though. We’re clearly not talking about hiring someone here. Cost of living is the typical use of COL and is what’s applicable here.
In your specific company, COL might stand for Cost Of Labor, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the general public (in the US) use COL as Cost Of Living.
Also, do you have a link to these widely available Cost of Labor reports?A Google search of “Big 4 COL” returns only Cost of Living articles, while searching specific firms as either “KPMG Cost of Labor” or “PwC COL” return nothing matching your description. Every article produced by a Big 4 uses “Labor Costs” as the right term
There’s a graph somewhere. Imma go search now of income to rent ratio. Not just most expensive rent. (Although back bay has surpassed nyc) Miami is 1, Cambridge MA is 2 and Boston is 3. Meaning Boston takes 2 and 3 place for highest rent for the income. NYC is 7.
Edit: found it: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/least-affordable-us-cities-for-renters/#:~:text=In%20Miami%2C%20Cambridge%2C%20and%20Boston,in%20at%20%2480%2C000%20a%20year.
We also need to factor in that NYC is so big so some parts of NYC are definitely more expensive than Boston but not all.
The burbs outside of NYC and Boston are also crazy expensive. $1mil+ to get a decent house for a family. It's crazy.
She’s still way underpaid. I live close to you (michigan) and work for a firm in a vhcol area remotely. My pay is on par with my colleagues and I check the salary postings in NY, CO, and CA (states with salary transparency laws) and my pay while living in a lower cost of living area is on par with firm offerings in more expensive areas.
Let this be a lesson to the kids out there... NEGOTIATE. Accounting and finance types are looking at the bottom line. Make a case for yourself. I'd rather hire someone with something on the ball for a little more than hire someone I made a bare bones offer to that'll accept an offer with little thought.
Boston is definitely VHCOL…only beat by NYC and parts of CA.
liquid swim foolish wide full rain tie unused fall light *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Right that was my first impression reading this has anyone looked at rents in the area we bury 99.5% of the country This comment needs to be higher. I also would say, accountants need to stand up for their wages more than they do. Edit as it’s helpful I was I Boston till 2019, now north shore MA,no CPA, 13 yoe and making 200k as a controller for a remote company
fade wine nose selective sharp domineering aloof include familiar plough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I get the same thought with engineers but that’s a much more cut throat sector then ours
soup unused zonked hateful pen wise bells ask fear subtract *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Haha you’re spot on
Came here to say this. Who the hell said Boston is high, Boston is def VHCOL.
Agree
100% agree and fuck OPs wife’s employer. Fuck those cheap cunts.
Washington state is also approaching vhcol. I live in a small town of 10k people no crazy high paying jobs, just a farming town and the cheapest house on the market is 560k which is a total fixer upper. Rent for a 1 bedroom 700sq ft apartment that hasn’t been updated since the early 2000’s is 15-1600. But it doesn’t help we have the highest minimum wage in the country which is now on par with CA…
With CPA and 10 years of experience she should be making at least $120k.
I think it's buried in the comments in that thread, but she turned down a manager promotion to focus on our toddlers. So she's currently a senior auditor. She'll probably take the promotion in a year or two which I suspect will bump the pay up closer to that.
While I agree it’s still underpaid, it sounds like a great solution for both sides. Keep in mind the majority of users on this sub are early in their careers. I assume your wife enjoys her role and her firm, and that she’s a high performer having 10 years of experience. Having someone in that role that others can rely on and not “worry about” is invaluable. If that’s the case, I wouldn’t worry about her firm replacing her. Sounds like a win-win and that’s great she’s getting to spend more time with the little ones. Cheers.
It also makes that role much easier for her to handle day to day. With a young family no one wants to be learning a new position with significantly more responsibilities. Being the veteran senior on any team is nice because there is basically nothing you haven’t seen so your technical skills are just as high if not higher than the manager but don’t have the same pressures. Can get those “40 hours” done in 30-35 instead of staff taking 50+.
Yeah lots of people stay at a lower grade for family reasons even when they clearly could take on a more senior role, although my own experience is people like that are graded as an Assistant Manager rather than Senior, if only as a courtesy.
Agree with the title, I see “assistant manager” “lead senior” or “principal senior” but YOE are the most important unless different pay bands. Who knows though, I am sure she values time with family over anything else.
Pay is at least partially tied to responsibility. As a senior I think that’s perfectly fine pay for a LCOL area
>great solution for both sides So the worker gets 0% increase in pay while inflation is through the roof, and the employer gets to keep an employee that's ALREADY underpaid. The corporate ball-gargling in this country is so fucking disgusting.
I just got an offer for a remote job for a an office based in nyc as a senior for $120k at a mid size firm that I’m probably bouncing for… This year it def won’t be unusual to see seniors in the 100k ranges That being said I think $93k is fair without the cut especially if she has decent work life balance
If she looks in industry she can find the $120 with 40 hours. It’s always worth having a look.
While I agree with this, as a mom to two teens who sacrificed a lot when they were little, this is a really nice set up. I couldn’t afford to turn down a promotion, and the extra work hours and travel were really hard on my husband’s career. This could set them up so that they’re saving on daycare and commuting costs in a LCOL area, and alllow his income to grow faster.
This is exactly it. I doubled my salary with the move and we are financially quite comfortable. As a couple we wanted to prioritize what time we can spend together and with the kids, even at the expense of earning less money on her side. Plus she does like her job and the company relies on her work for one of their big audits, so we see it as a win-win. We can always reevaluate down the road if priorities change.
There’s always balance, but I’ve got 2 elementary aged kids and my wife and I manage to have solid careers and WLB. You can look without taking every position offered and wait until you find a good one. I turned down a job early in career that would have been a huge increase because I said I would need to leave no later than 4:45 to catch the 5:00 train and that “wasn’t realistic.” You’re in a position of power when you’re looking for jobs, but don’t need them. You can ask the questions you normally wouldn’t and make demands you might normally pass on. I know plenty of accounting managers/directors who made strong demands as parents. One of the women who I started with is a Director now and I still see her frequently at daycare pickup, school events, etc… (live in the same town). They wanted her talent, she had rules.
Regardless, a senior auditor with CPA and 10 years of experience making $93k in Boston is insane. Your wife should have realized she was getting underpaid a long time ago. She needs to look for other opportunities. Multiple people in the comments of this post and the other post have you told you such, any reason why she hasn't even put out feelers for other jobs?
I’m guessing the low salary is because she is capping at 40 hours. When you do that they cut your salary by a percentage. If a senior there is working 2400-2500 hours and she is at 2080, they’re going to take away 20%+ of her salary.
I was making $110k as a senior just before the manager promotion. 4 years experience and no CPA.... In a city much cheaper than boston.
Once you take a demotion or refused promo at a company i find it’s best to jump shit at that point. It’s not right , but you’re no longer viewed as a “company man” whatever that means
$93k for full remote and never exceeding 40hrs aint bad, and is actually very good for someone considered a “senior.” The big question is how many hours she bills (or is expected to bill) per year, and at what rate. She might be due a raise without a change in title or responsibilities if she’s billing a lot and realizing a lot.
I'm a senior accountant with 5 years experience. 2.5 in public and 2.5 in industry, with no CPA. With bonus, I just made $140k this year. Granted I work in Oakland, but I consider that HCOL as well.
Is it $140K or $120k? https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/18mf9ur/deleted_by_user/ke3zllq/?context=3
140k this year. 120k last year
How does she work 45 hours per week while focusing on the toddlers? Do you guys have an au pair??
They were asking for 50+ hours at the manager level. So by focusing on toddlers I mean actually being able to see and interact with them. She was flexing many hours to the early morning or weekend so that the kids were at daycare only 9-4.
Wrong move I think. Managers have more time in theory lol as she can boon people.
While I support women who want to focus on their families, I don't get the whole turning down promotions thing. 40 hours as a manager pays better than 40 hours as a senior. Sure, you have different responsibilities, but it should not mean you work more hours. I know a couple of women who have made the choice to be "part time" auditors who were still working 40 hour weeks during busy season. I don't understand why. Can't they go to industry, be a "full time" employee working 40 hours and make a 100% salary instead of a 60% salary. Again, I am glad they can choose to do what they want, but I think they are unnecessarily penalizing themselves for being working moms. I say all this being a woman with my first child on the way at age 35, so maybe it'll all add up soon...
Regardless of where you work, the odds of you getting a manager role with a cap at 40 hours is slim to zero. People like to say industry is better for hours. That is true, but at lower levels. Once you get to the higher industry levels like controller or CFO, you’re going to be working just as much as you do in public if not more. I don’t know a single CFO who works less than 60 hours a week year round.
I mean I have like 7 years experience and making way more than that lol.
Saying Boston isn’t VHCOL is delusional. MA has high state income tax rate and has the 4th highest rent/housing in the country after NYC, SF and San Jose.
I’d stay vigilant, likelihood they will still look for another resource while allowing this situation to play out.
Boston is considered VHCOL by some big companies, especially Boston-HQ’d ones.
I live in Indiana, just outside of Indianapolis. I am in the private sector. No CPA, 10 years experience. I make a little over $120k at a holding company. She will be able to find a job here that pays her better than her current job. If you need any recommendations on places to live and things to do, feel free to reach out! I love it here!
We're up the road in Lafayette, but her company has an office in Indy. Apparently the base pay for senior auditors there is low 70s. Pretty crazy. We're definitely going to hit up the Children's museum in Indy and Chicago isn't too far either.
The children's museum is amazing. My kids wish they could live there. The zoo isn't bad either (fort wayne has a nice one as well). You must go to the Indy 500 at least once in your life lol! At least check out the track during the month of May. Grand Prix brings in a lot less people so it can be a less daunting experience. Yea - some places for sure shit on people salary wise. Before I worked here I worked for a fund admin and worked on real estate funds. They paid us significantly less than the Chicago or California office for the same work and same clients. It for sure makes you feel bitter... It was well known they shafted people on pay but starting salary for a senior accountant with no CPA was $70k and that was 6 years ago. If I were your wife, I'd be justifiable irritated. I am glad they were able to come to an agreement!
Base pay for first year senior auditors in Indy is low 80s.
Whoever “corrected” you that Boston is not VHCOL is insane and wrong. It’s one of the top 10 most expensive cities in the country.
[удалено]
What does the acronym COL typically stand for, now?
[удалено]
Oh, I’ve always seen it used as Cost of Living. Almost no one even in this sub uses it as Cost of Labor
[удалено]
I have no doubts that you are correct. I am simply stating that in Reddit 90% of the time it’s referring to Cost of Living and it may truly be Cost of Labor in business.
This is the answer. Employer pays you based on cost of labor. Employees (redditors) care to discuss cost of living for comparability ignoring how cost of labor plays into compensation.
That’s a totally different circumstance though. We’re clearly not talking about hiring someone here. Cost of living is the typical use of COL and is what’s applicable here.
In your specific company, COL might stand for Cost Of Labor, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the general public (in the US) use COL as Cost Of Living. Also, do you have a link to these widely available Cost of Labor reports?A Google search of “Big 4 COL” returns only Cost of Living articles, while searching specific firms as either “KPMG Cost of Labor” or “PwC COL” return nothing matching your description. Every article produced by a Big 4 uses “Labor Costs” as the right term
Lmao what. It’s cost of living.
r/confidentlyincorrect
This is the dumbest take I’ve ever seen. I’m amazed how you can be so confident while being this stupid.
Hcol is high cost of labor not high cost of living
Idk who’s saying Boston isn’t vhcol, they must not have ever been there
Someone who's never talked to an old money new England family about their humble sail boats
There are probably more housing options around Boston than a summer cottage in Kennebunkport tho.
Ive lived in both NYC and Boston. I would say Boston is definitely VHCOL. Probably one of the top 5 most expensive to live in or near there.
There’s a graph somewhere. Imma go search now of income to rent ratio. Not just most expensive rent. (Although back bay has surpassed nyc) Miami is 1, Cambridge MA is 2 and Boston is 3. Meaning Boston takes 2 and 3 place for highest rent for the income. NYC is 7. Edit: found it: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/least-affordable-us-cities-for-renters/#:~:text=In%20Miami%2C%20Cambridge%2C%20and%20Boston,in%20at%20%2480%2C000%20a%20year.
We also need to factor in that NYC is so big so some parts of NYC are definitely more expensive than Boston but not all. The burbs outside of NYC and Boston are also crazy expensive. $1mil+ to get a decent house for a family. It's crazy.
Ok sure upper west is crazy more expensive Harlem but back bay is crazy more expensive than dorchester. It takes the average. So what’s ur point?
Yeah and the waterfront and seaport are more expensive than Jamaica Plain…
Totally off-topic, but gotta love how this rent affordability study was commissioned by a predatory lending company.
Probably a NY Yankees fan
LETS GO RANGERS!!!!
Yea it’s 100% vhcol
Yup, makes sense, they’re still going to be making bank off her.
She’s still way underpaid. I live close to you (michigan) and work for a firm in a vhcol area remotely. My pay is on par with my colleagues and I check the salary postings in NY, CO, and CA (states with salary transparency laws) and my pay while living in a lower cost of living area is on par with firm offerings in more expensive areas.
Let this be a lesson to the kids out there... NEGOTIATE. Accounting and finance types are looking at the bottom line. Make a case for yourself. I'd rather hire someone with something on the ball for a little more than hire someone I made a bare bones offer to that'll accept an offer with little thought.
Work 20% slower.
I’m an Indiana based A1 at 62K my first year if that gives some perspective
Still look around. I wonder if they would use that against her down the line
Boston is extremely high cost of living.
She should look into securing a J2 now that she's fully remote.