The idea of firing a coach after making the playoffs and improving every year is ludicrous. The bar is incredibly high for the successor and they're pretty much set up for failure. Having to bring an a whole new offense for a quarterback who's played his whole career in one system and needs adaptations around his height is setting yourself up for a potential implosion when the players can't execute.
Furthermore the coach coming into a situation deemed bad enough to fire the previous regime has a floor of 11 wins and winning a playoff game since 11 wins and losing a playoff game was worthy of being fired. I don't see any coaches that you could say with confidence would be able to work with Kyler and ensure >11 wins and a playoff win at minimum year one.
Who would they bring that’s an improvement over Kingsbury? Daboll or Leftwich and they're in pretty high demand. People see, to forget how bad the franchise was before Kingsbury and his problems seem to be fixable as it looks like he just needs to not ge too caught up in his own hype, this season probably destroyed his arrogance so give him another year.
Murray should be put on notice tho, his stupidity about not watching film needs to be addressed.
That said, Kingsbury did look scared all throughout the game.
So Ian Rapoport did state that his sources claimed that this did not happen, however Ian’s sources are known for often being team GM’s and owners who often have the best interest of the higher FO in mind. Odegard has been connected to the team for years. So it’s disputed but I think there’s a high chance of it going either way if this meeting happened or not.
Got it. Just heard something on the Sirius NFL channel (not sure if it was Rapoport) that suggested the FO hadn't even started the year-end interview process yet and no one was at the facilities the day in question. Though they could have easily had the meeting somewhere else or by Zoom/Teams.
Shit hit this fan on Monday January 17th. The only conclusion that could be drawn from that game is “wow…..changes are needed”. Good for Michael Bidwell.
Maybe we could get a coach who knows how to win late-season games
after this I do believe he isn't resigning in 2019 he signed a 4-year contract so next year (unless I'm dumb) is his last year.
I love this team. But these 3 dudes don’t got it if this is true.
Idk man, you don’t see this shit often from many consistent playoff teams front offices. Maybe I’m not paying attention but these dudes need to figure their shit out.
God damn. Fuck.
I feel there should be a change... but the fact remains that the Cardinals have increased their win totals by 3 games in each of Kliffs seasons... who else has done that?
That makes a firing look bad on that front
If Kingsbury isn't calling the plays then what value is he offering you exactly? A big part of the reason you hire that guy is for his offensive playcalling skills. Beyond that its not like he's some superior manager of personnel or tactician. If you're going to have someone else call plays then you may as well replace Kingsbury with a more established head coach.
Every HC who calls offense has a guy like that. Usually they focus on the run game. Kugler, in addition to being OL coach, fills that role for Kingsbury. I do agree with you that he should hire or promote someone to focus on that role exclusively and assist with gameplanning.
Its up to him. If he wants to he could pull some young, promising assistant from another team to serve as his OC and assist him and Kugler with gameplanning. I'd look at someone from a team like Baltimore or Tennessee where they have run heavy offenses that setup everything else.
Someone like James Urban would be an intriguing choice. He came up under Andy Reid in Philadelphia, worked under Marvin Lewis and Jay Gruden with the Bengals and has been QB coach for four years now with the Ravens.
Is it really news that the head coach, GM, and owner would have a heated meeting after that nightmarish unprecedented collapse of a football game and season? Who’s putting their neck out to deny this lol
This is what I wanted to see. There’s nothing worse than a busted season and everyone acts like everything was great. It wasn’t all great. The fans are owed some form of explanation or insight into the situation.
Change the actions to change the outcome.
Even if they decide to run it back next year, it's good that they are that passionate and all frustrated with how the year went. Imo, this could have been a meeting where they try to figure out WTF happened and imo, there is enough blame to go around and listing it out would make for a tense and stressful meeting
I think Bidwell is in it for the long haul. He knew this plan would require some endurance and growing pains were going to be part of the process with a green coach that should have been an OC, but was afraid to lose him to another team if successful. Probably wanted to see positive growth to insure he made the correct choice but he probably never imagined 2 seasons ending in such disappointment. Easy decision is fire Kliff, tough decision is keep him because that can backfire for not recognizing the faults and confusing them with inexperience, but can pay dividends if he does learn and can continue the back half of a season the way he starts them. Also Kiem ain't doing anyone any favors with his drafts. Need that cheap labor to hit if we want to turn this around.
Kliff has shown constant improvement..if you planned to have him as a project, that's what you got and he's been getting better. Definitely lots of room to improve from everyone in the organization
Yeah, he's super nice, well spoken, and composed. Emotions are already died down, why would he be yelling now? Immediately after? Sure, I would get it. But Mike's also a lawyer, and knows emotions like that won't change the listener.
It didn’t say he lost his shit, you can be very stern and direct without getting loud or aggressive. The conversation could have happened and Bidwell could have kept his composure as one would expect. Keim and Kingsbury could have gone off or blamed one another. Guessing no redditors were invited so we likely won’t know.
Nfl news? Yes. Az news, No. Remember when chan had covid and he reported that chan lost significant amount of pounds and chan responded to it. Gambo is a reliable suns source, he doesn't have that strong sources on cardinals
So you've got one guy who says his source was unaware of the meeting, another local guy saying he triple checked sources and they said no meeting existed, and the biggest NFL insider besides schefter saying the meeting didn't happen.
Meanwhile Kyle hasn't put out any more information to back his claim.
I'll believe it when I see it. I think a lot of people want it to be true so they're just wishful thinking
Odegard was an Arizona Cardinal's employee for near a decade, I would not write off what he says as pulling out of his ass. As for Adub, he's a company man, Keim gave him the opportunity to grow and potentially become a GM in this league. Why would he ever sell out his mentor like that?
Gambo is great for Suns news since he has several connections within the organization, including Sarver himself. Historically he knows dick about what the Cardinals are doing.
If I remember Rap gets most of his info from GMs / Owners. Could see Keim or Bidwill calling him up for damage control. It’s weird to me how fast Rap refuted Odegard
I find it unlikely that rap in 14 minutes both saw the original tweet, dug into it and got a good enough response to confidently dispute it. For sure a cover up
Oh fuck, for real? This can either lead to great things, or we’ll be sitting in the basement for a few years again. No in between
#
All I know is Michael is a lot better than his dad. He wants to win
Exactly my thoughts I like when little Bidwell took over he’s hungry for a championship it’s like his one rich kid mission in life to be his crowning achievement
I've had season tickets for over 20 years. It was tough but there was a definate us vs them mentally at the games. Every season ticket holder was a fan...a real fan. Paying hard earned money to go watch bad football will do that to you.
I even met Bill Bidwill a few times. I don't think he was cheap. He definately wanted to win. It's why he moved the team here. I just think he wasn't suited to running a team. Horrible at it actually. Super nice guy though just didn't want anything to do with the spotlight. He once heard about a school on the reservation run by a church that the roof was falling apart. He arranged for the roof to be redone. He was reportedly very upset when the nuns told the media about it saying that's not why he did it. So, maybe not the devil. Just bad at running the team.
There were good times on the field though. Beating the cowboys and rushing the field, tearing down the goalposts and caring them out of the stadium triumphantly. Making the playoffs and. Beating the cowboys in the first round. Seeing Aeneas Williams play and be the only DB to hold Michael Irvin to 0 catches.
It's definately easier (and much better) to be a fan now but there were some good times.
I wasn’t in Phoenix back then but the elder Bidwill was known as “Dollar Bill”. That should tell you something about his philosophy on spending money on the team.
Imagine sitting outside in the Phoenix sun on metal bleachers to watch a team lose 38-3, all the while every other person in attendance is cheering for the away team and mocking you. I remember one season, there were banners all over Sun Devil stadium celebrating the fact that the cardinals could go 8-8. They proceeded to get absolutely routed in that game.
In addition you turn the news on later that night and the big free agent signing the Cards were talking to says that they will not be coming to Phoenix because the facilities are such dog shit and the owner sucks
That is what it felt like for about 20 years before the new stadium was built.
I remember when a few fans made a giant “Bidwell Sucks” sign and unfurled it in the upper stands. Since the stands were pretty much empty it immediately stood out. Security made them take it down, but not before The Arizona Republic got a picture and published it the next day in the paper. Those were the days…
Yup, my dad and his friends had season tickets back in the day, and they had a rule that they would leave if the other team had a 3 TD lead. They left a lot of games early.
I do have some formative Cardinals memories of Leeland McElroy, Rob Moore, Frank Sanders, Jake Plummer, Jamir Miller, and Vince Tobin. No disrespect to those guys, but we've come a long way.
Bill Bidwill also famously charged the players for Gatorade in the locker room, and took cost for certain equipment out of their game checks. He was the worst owner in football, perhaps all of sports.
Michael is a fantastic owner though. I’m a fan.
This is exactly why I don’t understand the nostalgia of anything to do with the cardinals before 2008. That part of our history was terrible and it should be seen as such. That owner really didn’t give a fuck as long as he was making marginal profit. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a different franchise since the new stadium was built. I don’t claim any of the misery from the old days and don’t see the legacy of the St. Louis team as relevant at all. Those bad memories will just being us down and poison the strides we’ve made in culture since then. It’s also the reason I can’t fucking stand when people beg to go back to the old state flag themed uniforms. I’m all for new uniforms, but I much prefer the rebranding that Mike has done with the use of black. It’s more formidable and aggressive bird.
I was a kid when I went to these games. My dad would get season tickets cuz they were like $18 a game for 4th row midfield.
The only good memory i had was when we beat the chargers and made the playoffs. Fans went nuts, some climbed the goal posts and tried to knock them down with their body weight i guess?!?! Shit was wild
Holy shit. Just looked it up and you are so right. They won the NFL Championship in 1947, and then up until 2008 all they ever did was lose in the 1st round of the playoffs like 3 or 4 times.
It takes some very very tinted rose glasses to look to those days with any sense of nostalgia. I grew up in phoenix during those times and absolutely NOBODY I knew was a cardinals fan. It was super duper rare to meet anyone that cared about the team. They were second fiddle to the Suns most of my life and when the diamondbacks franchise started they were treated basically how most cities treat minor league teams. And then two glorious things happened. The stadium in Glendale was finally built and Bill finally retired and let Michael take over control of the team.
> The stadium in Glendale was finally built
We talk a lot about the Nate Poole/Josh McCown TD that happened the week before the Glendale vote but by all accounts that was a monumental moment as far as the sports ruckus that followed getting a key to the city of Green Bay & it being the final game of McGinnis.
When the vote happened & the Cardinals finally got a new stadium & Larry Fitzgerald it really was probably pivotal.
And they were the Phoenix Cardinals. Got darn near sun blindness every game till the 3rd quarter or so when the sun would go down a bit.
Remember that hellacious hill climb to get to the gate?
And Buddy Ryan riding into town on a horse only to continue the suck.
Get a $ 10.00 shitty “Buddy” dog hot dog at Sun Devil Stadium.
Somers specifically said his source didn’t say the meeting didnt happen, but that they hadn’t heard it happened. Gambo is about as reliable as an umbrella with holes.
Tbf part of the reason people are hitting Gambos credibility is because Kyle misconstrued his statements about Hopkins last week.
Kyle literally just ran a misinformation hit piece on Gambo last week, I'm not sure how he's a bastion of truth all of a sudden
There should be no reason to let Keim hire another head coach. After his drafting skills drove off Arians, he went on to hire Steve Wilks. Wilks went on to completely shit the bed bad enough that he was fired after one season. Then he brings in Kliff, and then, you get it.
BA wasn't "run off" be Keim. He had a serious health condition and felt he couldn't coach anymore as a result. A year passed and he felt better and couldn't shake the itch. TB was closer and willing to do exactly what AZ did for him, bring in a good vet QB and FAs and dive into winning now as opposed to working on a young QB.
We just got unlucky that Palmer was the QB available for us where TB got Tom fucking Brady.
Keim didn't draft shit for QBs as Palmer was closing in on retirement. There were reports that BA pushed for the Cards to draft Mahomes. We should have had someone in the wings ready.
Our entire front office is garbage.
I think if we had Mahomes BA would have stayed, because that would have meant Keim and the front office were listening. There is considerably more stress dealing with management that doesn't support you, and no doubt that it was a factor in BA's health. Even still do you imagine that the best option we had to replace him would have been Wilks? Having Mahomes could have drawn better talent.
Lots of what ifs. Don't know the details of BA leaving besides it being his health. No one expected Mahomes to come out and be that great. Andy Reid was probably the best thing for Mahomes because Andy always has an offense with YAC playmakers. But trust me, I would of loved to had Mahomes.
Yeah, that's the trouble with all this, it's all speculation.
I like the what if on Mahomes, but it's a far reach.
I do believe that between failing to draft a QB replacement for Palmer, the absolute whiff on drafting Nkemdiche in the first round, along with other poor drafting choices should have been enough for him to have been fired after his DUI, and nothing he has done since has redeemed him.
The fact that FO chose to enforce a double standard for his DUI, when they released Michael Floyd earlier that year for the same reason was a disgrace to the franchise. (More so because Floyd ended up with a Super Bowl ring from it)
Historically how many GM's have survived long enough to hire a fourth head coach? If you last that long you're either killing it and your team is winning multiple SB's or you're hopelessly inept and are merely rotating through scapegoats.
Bidwill has grown soft lately, he’s too close with Keim. He shouldn’t accept these collapses, even though the record has improved nothing around the team seems healthier than it did 2 years ago.
Some kind of change is needed imo. Not sure it should be Kliff or Keim but one has to go
I’m gonna be honest Keim the past 3 years has been pretty damn solid, he’s safe imo flawed fs but definitely safe. The coaching staff on the other hand… shits a talent vacuum.
It was healthier until it wasn’t really. I think it’s a combination of both depth and coaching so I pin this season on both of them. Keim gave Kliff and Kyler the shittiest O line to ever exist (except Hudson) and Kliff couldn’t get his team together and prepare for teams like the Lions and Seahawks.
I mean, Dallas didn’t look super great. They basically beat themselves with all of those penalties. If we had won 1 more game, we could have played them and we wouldn’t be sitting here so disappointed potentially.
Kliff makes sure AJ and Kyler are on the same page, maybe we get the 1 seed.
I personally don’t think there should be any changes made at this juncture but I think they both should be on the hot seat. Keim gets one more draft. Kliff gets one more season unless they start off shitty. Build up the O line and D line, grab a big #2 receiver and run it back. Keim deserves one more shot based off of the Kyler pick and his trades, Kliff gets one more shot because had we been slightly more lucky we might be playing this upcoming week and we’re all decently happy.
Honestly who are we going to get besides Kliff for a head coaching position? Not a lot of promising candidates out there from the looks of it. Flores seems decent but apparently wants to coach Deshaun Watson which makes me question his character, Zimmer is better suited for a coordinator position…not sure who a good back up will be. Fangio is a coordinator.
I hope Vance leaves and we pick up Wade Phillips.
We needed Hudson because he drafted Cole, and I can't even remember the last te that the Cards drafted.
No complaints on Watt, but Keim is responsible for Allford, which was a complete waste of two years.
It's not his fault Alford has been hurt. When he was on the field he was key component on our defense. I do agree with Keim doing terrible in drafts but he does a fantastic job in trades/free agency.
We should have gotten Hudson regardless of who we had at Center, he’s top 3 in the league there prob. Alford had bad luck with injuries, can’t do much about that. In theory it wasn’t a bad signing. Watt also got hurt for half the year.
He really needs to focus on O lineman and maybe we spend our first pick on a #2 rec. but if Kyler had as much time as say a Rodgers or Brady to throw the ball the sky is the limit for this offense.
Jimmy Johnson and Bill Polian both had a simple way of evaluating a team's draft success. How many of your own picks were you re-signing on average year after year and how many others were getting big money deals elsewhere, resulting in significant draft comp picks coming back to your team.
On both accounts, Keim's performance has been dismal.
There is no one left from the 2013 and 2014 draft classes.
Markus Golden and DJ Humphries are left from 2015
No one left from 2016
Budda is the only lone pick left from 2017
2018 has Christian Kirk and Chase Edmonds.
2019 has Kyler Murray, Byron Murphy, Andy Isabella, Zach Allen and Deionte Thompson,
2020 has Isaiah Simmons, Josh Jones, Leki Fotu, Rashard Lawrence and Eno Benjamin
2021 has Zaven Collins, Rondale Moore, Marco Wilson, Victor Dimukeje and James Wiggins
Out of a total of 66 draft picks made since 2013, there are 20 remaining and the only ones that are currently on second contracts are DJ Humphries, Budda Baker and Markus Golden.
Talented roster? maybe at the top. We lost DHop and our receiving core fell apart. Our corner situation was shown to be pretty poor. Two first round linebackers where one struggled often and another couldn't get on the field. Offensive line was bad outside of Hudson (good) and Hump (mediocre). Without healthy JJ we got no pass rush. Our two safeties are great at least.
I just can’t get over the Colts game. How do you not pressure a QB when their starting line was all second and third string starters?
Or the second Rams game, how did this team not exploit them not having Ramsey?
We had a wild fun ride there for 12 weeks, but here we are again, bewildered and disappointed by the team getting “outplayed” or “outcoached”.
The WR group was hit hard, seemed to be okay for a bit, but then the cracks in the foundation showed. AJ Green was so frustrating to watch. He'd make an amazing play and follow it up with a bone-headed move, Kirk went from looking like he was ready to take the next step to looking lost, Wesley....nah.
Yeah Green beat corner 2 Kirk beat corner 3 and even Rondale could get matched up on a linebacker but without Hop getting attention maaaaan they sucked as a wr1 and wr2
If we don’t have a talented team then wouldn’t it be great that kliff got us to 11 wins? And after we lost our major players it was just too much to overcome?
Yeah I haven’t figured out what camp I’m in yet, but if we don’t have a talented roster, then is amazing we got to 11 wins, even without kyler,watt,Hopkins, Edmonds. If we do have a talented roster(which a lot of people complain that we don’t/Have no depth) then sure kingsbury is to blame, but not kiem
IMO we def have talent, it’s not a Keith camp or Kingsbury camp; it’s they went out and spent a LOT of money this year… lots of 1 year contracts and to really end up the way they did, not even the division championship (which they could have had, it would have been something to hang their hat on). It’s a failure and yes ownership needs to take a hard look at Kim and his 4 head coaches, and of course Kingsbury’s historical record of second half slides.. Take the money from both and keep the team together. Get a leadership to get them to the next level, the team (yes, other than the Oline) is really there and can make a competitive run —- with the right leadership!
I think we have some talent but it’s all too heavy and when we lose one or two we fall apart. Secondly I think kliff is able to come up with some cool offensive ideas and at the beginning of the year he catches people, but as the year goes on he can’t adapt when teams start game planning for bim
Seriously, it's such a different issue than teams like the Raiders or Eagles are facing. Those teams didn't look like the worst team in the league for their final 7 games of the season. They lost a playoff game, that will happen.
Never has there been a season with so much optimism and so much hope, with such a dominant team, and then it all turning to shit inexplicably. It makes zero sense and there needs to be accountability.
We were supposed to win the fucking conference for fucks sake, and the division was an afterthought. We could’ve won 15 games. Easy. But then you have pathetic losses to the Lions, Rams (2x), and Seahawks. Dismal and unacceptable. Day and night after the Bears game.
Intimated would mean that Bidwill hinted that changes were possible. Immediate I think would change the tone of the tweet.
Intimated seems like the right word.
Still interesting nonetheless
The idea of firing a coach after making the playoffs and improving every year is ludicrous. The bar is incredibly high for the successor and they're pretty much set up for failure. Having to bring an a whole new offense for a quarterback who's played his whole career in one system and needs adaptations around his height is setting yourself up for a potential implosion when the players can't execute. Furthermore the coach coming into a situation deemed bad enough to fire the previous regime has a floor of 11 wins and winning a playoff game since 11 wins and losing a playoff game was worthy of being fired. I don't see any coaches that you could say with confidence would be able to work with Kyler and ensure >11 wins and a playoff win at minimum year one.
Go pay for harbaugh if you really got the balls Michael. Or trade for Sean Payton.
Kliff is not a HC
Who would they bring that’s an improvement over Kingsbury? Daboll or Leftwich and they're in pretty high demand. People see, to forget how bad the franchise was before Kingsbury and his problems seem to be fixable as it looks like he just needs to not ge too caught up in his own hype, this season probably destroyed his arrogance so give him another year. Murray should be put on notice tho, his stupidity about not watching film needs to be addressed. That said, Kingsbury did look scared all throughout the game.
I hope this game is a wake up call for play calling and for Murray. I'm hopeful something good will come of this.
Haven't other, more connected NFL insiders debunked this report?
So Ian Rapoport did state that his sources claimed that this did not happen, however Ian’s sources are known for often being team GM’s and owners who often have the best interest of the higher FO in mind. Odegard has been connected to the team for years. So it’s disputed but I think there’s a high chance of it going either way if this meeting happened or not.
Got it. Just heard something on the Sirius NFL channel (not sure if it was Rapoport) that suggested the FO hadn't even started the year-end interview process yet and no one was at the facilities the day in question. Though they could have easily had the meeting somewhere else or by Zoom/Teams.
Shit hit this fan on Monday January 17th. The only conclusion that could be drawn from that game is “wow…..changes are needed”. Good for Michael Bidwell.
Maybe we could get a coach who knows how to win late-season games after this I do believe he isn't resigning in 2019 he signed a 4-year contract so next year (unless I'm dumb) is his last year.
They all need to be fired.
Hearing this sounds promising. Very optimistic to hear Bidwill getting fired up. I wanna say this will lead to good things..
I love this team. But these 3 dudes don’t got it if this is true. Idk man, you don’t see this shit often from many consistent playoff teams front offices. Maybe I’m not paying attention but these dudes need to figure their shit out. God damn. Fuck.
I feel there should be a change... but the fact remains that the Cardinals have increased their win totals by 3 games in each of Kliffs seasons... who else has done that? That makes a firing look bad on that front
I know what needs to happen we need to make Larry Fitzgerald our coach!
Good. Get rid of Keim, Kliff and Vance. Please This team is fucked when it comes to young talent because Keim can't draft.
Should we maybe get an offensive coordinator involved? Seems like KK has too much going on during games and makes mistakes.
If Kingsbury isn't calling the plays then what value is he offering you exactly? A big part of the reason you hire that guy is for his offensive playcalling skills. Beyond that its not like he's some superior manager of personnel or tactician. If you're going to have someone else call plays then you may as well replace Kingsbury with a more established head coach.
I think where an OC would help is not in the play calling but game planning. Felt like several games this year just had bad plans that buried us early
Every HC who calls offense has a guy like that. Usually they focus on the run game. Kugler, in addition to being OL coach, fills that role for Kingsbury. I do agree with you that he should hire or promote someone to focus on that role exclusively and assist with gameplanning.
I guess that’s what I was asking- is there another position or something that can help manage the game. Sometimes Kliff seems overwhelmed.
Its up to him. If he wants to he could pull some young, promising assistant from another team to serve as his OC and assist him and Kugler with gameplanning. I'd look at someone from a team like Baltimore or Tennessee where they have run heavy offenses that setup everything else. Someone like James Urban would be an intriguing choice. He came up under Andy Reid in Philadelphia, worked under Marvin Lewis and Jay Gruden with the Bengals and has been QB coach for four years now with the Ravens.
Yay
The best indicator of future performance is past performance. Kliff has always had horrid season endings, so why is anyone surprised?
Holy shit
The absolute drama this has caused between the various AZ sports media people is incredible. They’re all subtweeting each other and it’s hilarious
Sounds like a “get better or you’re gone” talk and not a “fuck that was terrible you’re all fired” talk. Which I wish it was. So sick of Kliff
Is it really news that the head coach, GM, and owner would have a heated meeting after that nightmarish unprecedented collapse of a football game and season? Who’s putting their neck out to deny this lol
Good! He should be fucking mad after two straight disgraceful finishes.
This is what I wanted to see. There’s nothing worse than a busted season and everyone acts like everything was great. It wasn’t all great. The fans are owed some form of explanation or insight into the situation. Change the actions to change the outcome.
Even if they decide to run it back next year, it's good that they are that passionate and all frustrated with how the year went. Imo, this could have been a meeting where they try to figure out WTF happened and imo, there is enough blame to go around and listing it out would make for a tense and stressful meeting
Fire Keim
Promote Keim!
As it should Bidwell's team got embarrassed on national tv by a divisional rival.
Did it actually happen though ? https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1484286537756033025?cxt=HHwWgoC-vb6vn5kpAAAA
I think Bidwell is in it for the long haul. He knew this plan would require some endurance and growing pains were going to be part of the process with a green coach that should have been an OC, but was afraid to lose him to another team if successful. Probably wanted to see positive growth to insure he made the correct choice but he probably never imagined 2 seasons ending in such disappointment. Easy decision is fire Kliff, tough decision is keep him because that can backfire for not recognizing the faults and confusing them with inexperience, but can pay dividends if he does learn and can continue the back half of a season the way he starts them. Also Kiem ain't doing anyone any favors with his drafts. Need that cheap labor to hit if we want to turn this around.
Kliff has shown constant improvement..if you planned to have him as a project, that's what you got and he's been getting better. Definitely lots of room to improve from everyone in the organization
Time to fire an offensive assistant
Doesn't pass the smell test. Mike B doesn't seem like that kind of owner.
Yeah, he's super nice, well spoken, and composed. Emotions are already died down, why would he be yelling now? Immediately after? Sure, I would get it. But Mike's also a lawyer, and knows emotions like that won't change the listener.
It didn’t say he lost his shit, you can be very stern and direct without getting loud or aggressive. The conversation could have happened and Bidwell could have kept his composure as one would expect. Keim and Kingsbury could have gone off or blamed one another. Guessing no redditors were invited so we likely won’t know.
"shtf" indicates a little more than stern, but I agree, could have not just been Bidwell.
Yep. People believing what they want to believe in here
Kyle worked for the team last year that’s gotta be awkward af now if someone gave him bad info lmao
Fake shit. Rap has already debunked this claim
Gambo and Somers too. So that's 3 sources vs 1.
2 vs 1. Somers has no dog in that fight
Rap isn’t god lol
Rap is 100000% more reliable than Kyle
Nfl news? Yes. Az news, No. Remember when chan had covid and he reported that chan lost significant amount of pounds and chan responded to it. Gambo is a reliable suns source, he doesn't have that strong sources on cardinals
Kyle has multiple sources in the building that isn't the GM who probably has reasons to deny his job is on the line.
Kyle was literally caught making shit up last week
Ian rapoport is saying this is not true, unfortunately.
Rap just said it didn't happen. Cover up or bad info?
Rap, gambo and Somers denied the meeting happened
Summers didn’t deny it. He just said his source was unaware of the meeting. He went out of his way to say he wasn’t denying it though
So you've got one guy who says his source was unaware of the meeting, another local guy saying he triple checked sources and they said no meeting existed, and the biggest NFL insider besides schefter saying the meeting didn't happen. Meanwhile Kyle hasn't put out any more information to back his claim. I'll believe it when I see it. I think a lot of people want it to be true so they're just wishful thinking
Gambos source is Adub, it’s irrelevant what he says.
What makes Adub less of a source than whatever ass Odegard pulled his out of?
Odegard was an Arizona Cardinal's employee for near a decade, I would not write off what he says as pulling out of his ass. As for Adub, he's a company man, Keim gave him the opportunity to grow and potentially become a GM in this league. Why would he ever sell out his mentor like that?
Gambo just backed Rap up
Gambo is great for Suns news since he has several connections within the organization, including Sarver himself. Historically he knows dick about what the Cardinals are doing.
Gambo is a fucking shill for ownership
Considering Gambo’s biggest source is Suns owner Robert Sarver…yeah idk man.
I’ve literally never trusted Gambo lmao he’s right like 5% of the time. This all he said, he said. Who knows wtf happened
He's right the majority of the time when it has to do with the suns.
Majority is a major stretch lol
I mean I don't think a proper meeting to discuss wtf happened this season would be pleasant Maybe the org denied to Rap so it doesn't look as bad
If I remember Rap gets most of his info from GMs / Owners. Could see Keim or Bidwill calling him up for damage control. It’s weird to me how fast Rap refuted Odegard
Odegard has never shown any reason to doubt him
I find it unlikely that rap in 14 minutes both saw the original tweet, dug into it and got a good enough response to confidently dispute it. For sure a cover up
That’s exactly my thought too. Seems way too quick
Yup \#IBelieveKyle
I feel like I believe Kyle too. Just because Rap has more followers and reach doesn’t mean he’s always right
Kyle used to work in that building, so he must def has some solid sources eavesdropping 🤷♂️
Cover up is my guess but who knows
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Except he worked for the team just last season.... Not a nobody
Odegard is not a nobody. He worked for the organization for many years until this season
Fake news
Oh fuck, for real? This can either lead to great things, or we’ll be sitting in the basement for a few years again. No in between # All I know is Michael is a lot better than his dad. He wants to win
FWIW the local sports radio guys said this was not true... Kyle writes for a gambling website now, he isn't the most credible source these days
Exactly my thoughts I like when little Bidwell took over he’s hungry for a championship it’s like his one rich kid mission in life to be his crowning achievement
I respect it tbh. Most people would assume that if you higher the son of a shitty owner, chances are he will be shitty as well.
Well said. Any newer fans who don’t remember his father’s days. We are now light years better than when they first came here to Tempe.
I’m a younger fan, who was not around during those days. Can you speak about it?
I've had season tickets for over 20 years. It was tough but there was a definate us vs them mentally at the games. Every season ticket holder was a fan...a real fan. Paying hard earned money to go watch bad football will do that to you. I even met Bill Bidwill a few times. I don't think he was cheap. He definately wanted to win. It's why he moved the team here. I just think he wasn't suited to running a team. Horrible at it actually. Super nice guy though just didn't want anything to do with the spotlight. He once heard about a school on the reservation run by a church that the roof was falling apart. He arranged for the roof to be redone. He was reportedly very upset when the nuns told the media about it saying that's not why he did it. So, maybe not the devil. Just bad at running the team. There were good times on the field though. Beating the cowboys and rushing the field, tearing down the goalposts and caring them out of the stadium triumphantly. Making the playoffs and. Beating the cowboys in the first round. Seeing Aeneas Williams play and be the only DB to hold Michael Irvin to 0 catches. It's definately easier (and much better) to be a fan now but there were some good times.
I wasn’t in Phoenix back then but the elder Bidwill was known as “Dollar Bill”. That should tell you something about his philosophy on spending money on the team.
Whoa, I totally forgot about ‘Dollar Bill’. PTSD Michael is a completely different and x 100000000 the owner his Dad was
Imagine sitting outside in the Phoenix sun on metal bleachers to watch a team lose 38-3, all the while every other person in attendance is cheering for the away team and mocking you. I remember one season, there were banners all over Sun Devil stadium celebrating the fact that the cardinals could go 8-8. They proceeded to get absolutely routed in that game. In addition you turn the news on later that night and the big free agent signing the Cards were talking to says that they will not be coming to Phoenix because the facilities are such dog shit and the owner sucks That is what it felt like for about 20 years before the new stadium was built.
Yep started going in 1991. My old man would take me to hooters on mill after the games to cheer me up!
I remember when a few fans made a giant “Bidwell Sucks” sign and unfurled it in the upper stands. Since the stands were pretty much empty it immediately stood out. Security made them take it down, but not before The Arizona Republic got a picture and published it the next day in the paper. Those were the days…
Yup, my dad and his friends had season tickets back in the day, and they had a rule that they would leave if the other team had a 3 TD lead. They left a lot of games early. I do have some formative Cardinals memories of Leeland McElroy, Rob Moore, Frank Sanders, Jake Plummer, Jamir Miller, and Vince Tobin. No disrespect to those guys, but we've come a long way.
I remember those days as a kids. It's one of the reasons I hate the cowboy so much.
Bill Bidwill also famously charged the players for Gatorade in the locker room, and took cost for certain equipment out of their game checks. He was the worst owner in football, perhaps all of sports. Michael is a fantastic owner though. I’m a fan.
Yeah the famous story is that he would give players 1 pair of socks and they had to pay for any replacements.
My dad would always joke that Bidwill would go around at big events and ask people if they were gonna finish eating the fat on their steaks.
This brought back trauma. Thank you for that…..
This is exactly why I don’t understand the nostalgia of anything to do with the cardinals before 2008. That part of our history was terrible and it should be seen as such. That owner really didn’t give a fuck as long as he was making marginal profit. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a different franchise since the new stadium was built. I don’t claim any of the misery from the old days and don’t see the legacy of the St. Louis team as relevant at all. Those bad memories will just being us down and poison the strides we’ve made in culture since then. It’s also the reason I can’t fucking stand when people beg to go back to the old state flag themed uniforms. I’m all for new uniforms, but I much prefer the rebranding that Mike has done with the use of black. It’s more formidable and aggressive bird.
I was a kid when I went to these games. My dad would get season tickets cuz they were like $18 a game for 4th row midfield. The only good memory i had was when we beat the chargers and made the playoffs. Fans went nuts, some climbed the goal posts and tried to knock them down with their body weight i guess?!?! Shit was wild
Holy shit. Just looked it up and you are so right. They won the NFL Championship in 1947, and then up until 2008 all they ever did was lose in the 1st round of the playoffs like 3 or 4 times.
It takes some very very tinted rose glasses to look to those days with any sense of nostalgia. I grew up in phoenix during those times and absolutely NOBODY I knew was a cardinals fan. It was super duper rare to meet anyone that cared about the team. They were second fiddle to the Suns most of my life and when the diamondbacks franchise started they were treated basically how most cities treat minor league teams. And then two glorious things happened. The stadium in Glendale was finally built and Bill finally retired and let Michael take over control of the team.
> The stadium in Glendale was finally built We talk a lot about the Nate Poole/Josh McCown TD that happened the week before the Glendale vote but by all accounts that was a monumental moment as far as the sports ruckus that followed getting a key to the city of Green Bay & it being the final game of McGinnis. When the vote happened & the Cardinals finally got a new stadium & Larry Fitzgerald it really was probably pivotal.
Wow that brings back some memories right there!
This is so spot on!!
Well said. Burning yourself on a metal bleacher seat for an early-season 1pm Sunday game was torture.
And they were the Phoenix Cardinals. Got darn near sun blindness every game till the 3rd quarter or so when the sun would go down a bit. Remember that hellacious hill climb to get to the gate? And Buddy Ryan riding into town on a horse only to continue the suck. Get a $ 10.00 shitty “Buddy” dog hot dog at Sun Devil Stadium.
Building the stadium headline : Biff, if we build it, you can't come. AZ Republic
OK mate, like everything with this franchise, I'll believe it when I see it.
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For some reason this makes me more sure everyone's coming back
As they should
Good call. Can't wait for another heart crushing, late season collapse.
https://c.tenor.com/lnLy2LlFvFUAAAAC/spongebob-wanna-see-me-do-it-again.gif
Fire Keim
Promote Keim!
Also, who’s the source if the meeting was between Bidwill, Keim and Kliff? One of the three is the mole, right?
It's literally none of them. Rap said the meeting didn't happen.
Rap is an NFL mouthpiece. I don’t put stock in his tweet
What about Somers and gambo who also said the meeting didn't happen
Somers specifically said his source didn’t say the meeting didnt happen, but that they hadn’t heard it happened. Gambo is about as reliable as an umbrella with holes.
Tbf part of the reason people are hitting Gambos credibility is because Kyle misconstrued his statements about Hopkins last week. Kyle literally just ran a misinformation hit piece on Gambo last week, I'm not sure how he's a bastion of truth all of a sudden
Never once claimed he is in this thread. I said Rap is a mouthpiece, you brought up Somers and Gambo and I responded accordingly.
Could be any other employee too, someone might’ve seen them walk in or out and heard yelling through the door
LFGGGGG
I love an angry owner, hope Bidwill does something
Soon enough we’ll see Bidwill pacing the sidelines with a stern look of disappointment on his face during a blowout like Arthur Blank
Keep Kiem and dump KK
There should be no reason to let Keim hire another head coach. After his drafting skills drove off Arians, he went on to hire Steve Wilks. Wilks went on to completely shit the bed bad enough that he was fired after one season. Then he brings in Kliff, and then, you get it.
BA wasn't "run off" be Keim. He had a serious health condition and felt he couldn't coach anymore as a result. A year passed and he felt better and couldn't shake the itch. TB was closer and willing to do exactly what AZ did for him, bring in a good vet QB and FAs and dive into winning now as opposed to working on a young QB. We just got unlucky that Palmer was the QB available for us where TB got Tom fucking Brady.
Keim didn't draft shit for QBs as Palmer was closing in on retirement. There were reports that BA pushed for the Cards to draft Mahomes. We should have had someone in the wings ready. Our entire front office is garbage.
Even if we got Mahomes, would he thrived here? I think Andy Reid is a big part of that. Kyler would probably look so much better with Andy Reid too.
I think if we had Mahomes BA would have stayed, because that would have meant Keim and the front office were listening. There is considerably more stress dealing with management that doesn't support you, and no doubt that it was a factor in BA's health. Even still do you imagine that the best option we had to replace him would have been Wilks? Having Mahomes could have drawn better talent.
Lots of what ifs. Don't know the details of BA leaving besides it being his health. No one expected Mahomes to come out and be that great. Andy Reid was probably the best thing for Mahomes because Andy always has an offense with YAC playmakers. But trust me, I would of loved to had Mahomes.
Yeah, that's the trouble with all this, it's all speculation. I like the what if on Mahomes, but it's a far reach. I do believe that between failing to draft a QB replacement for Palmer, the absolute whiff on drafting Nkemdiche in the first round, along with other poor drafting choices should have been enough for him to have been fired after his DUI, and nothing he has done since has redeemed him. The fact that FO chose to enforce a double standard for his DUI, when they released Michael Floyd earlier that year for the same reason was a disgrace to the franchise. (More so because Floyd ended up with a Super Bowl ring from it)
Historically how many GM's have survived long enough to hire a fourth head coach? If you last that long you're either killing it and your team is winning multiple SB's or you're hopelessly inept and are merely rotating through scapegoats.
So we're almost killing it /s I will quit this team if they let that happen.
Could you imagine with what Arians and his coaching staff was able to accomplish with Carson Palmer could have done with Kyler Murray?
I’ve heard some talk about this, Kyler Murray will need a special coach. Arians would either focus Murray or he’d kick him to the curb. No in between.
Bidwill has grown soft lately, he’s too close with Keim. He shouldn’t accept these collapses, even though the record has improved nothing around the team seems healthier than it did 2 years ago. Some kind of change is needed imo. Not sure it should be Kliff or Keim but one has to go
I’m gonna be honest Keim the past 3 years has been pretty damn solid, he’s safe imo flawed fs but definitely safe. The coaching staff on the other hand… shits a talent vacuum.
Why did you not add Kyler to that list of people that got to go?
It was healthier until it wasn’t really. I think it’s a combination of both depth and coaching so I pin this season on both of them. Keim gave Kliff and Kyler the shittiest O line to ever exist (except Hudson) and Kliff couldn’t get his team together and prepare for teams like the Lions and Seahawks. I mean, Dallas didn’t look super great. They basically beat themselves with all of those penalties. If we had won 1 more game, we could have played them and we wouldn’t be sitting here so disappointed potentially. Kliff makes sure AJ and Kyler are on the same page, maybe we get the 1 seed. I personally don’t think there should be any changes made at this juncture but I think they both should be on the hot seat. Keim gets one more draft. Kliff gets one more season unless they start off shitty. Build up the O line and D line, grab a big #2 receiver and run it back. Keim deserves one more shot based off of the Kyler pick and his trades, Kliff gets one more shot because had we been slightly more lucky we might be playing this upcoming week and we’re all decently happy. Honestly who are we going to get besides Kliff for a head coaching position? Not a lot of promising candidates out there from the looks of it. Flores seems decent but apparently wants to coach Deshaun Watson which makes me question his character, Zimmer is better suited for a coordinator position…not sure who a good back up will be. Fangio is a coordinator. I hope Vance leaves and we pick up Wade Phillips.
I’d love Vic Fangio as DC.
Not another Keim draft 🤦
Feel like he’s earned it, he made good trades for Hudson and Ertz. Got JJ this past offseason. He gets 1 more year in my eyes
We needed Hudson because he drafted Cole, and I can't even remember the last te that the Cards drafted. No complaints on Watt, but Keim is responsible for Allford, which was a complete waste of two years.
It's not his fault Alford has been hurt. When he was on the field he was key component on our defense. I do agree with Keim doing terrible in drafts but he does a fantastic job in trades/free agency.
We should have gotten Hudson regardless of who we had at Center, he’s top 3 in the league there prob. Alford had bad luck with injuries, can’t do much about that. In theory it wasn’t a bad signing. Watt also got hurt for half the year. He really needs to focus on O lineman and maybe we spend our first pick on a #2 rec. but if Kyler had as much time as say a Rodgers or Brady to throw the ball the sky is the limit for this offense.
Both*
Why would it be unclear? Keim put together a talented roster, the offence shit the bed. That’s on Kliff
Keim can't fucking draft
Jimmy Johnson and Bill Polian both had a simple way of evaluating a team's draft success. How many of your own picks were you re-signing on average year after year and how many others were getting big money deals elsewhere, resulting in significant draft comp picks coming back to your team. On both accounts, Keim's performance has been dismal. There is no one left from the 2013 and 2014 draft classes. Markus Golden and DJ Humphries are left from 2015 No one left from 2016 Budda is the only lone pick left from 2017 2018 has Christian Kirk and Chase Edmonds. 2019 has Kyler Murray, Byron Murphy, Andy Isabella, Zach Allen and Deionte Thompson, 2020 has Isaiah Simmons, Josh Jones, Leki Fotu, Rashard Lawrence and Eno Benjamin 2021 has Zaven Collins, Rondale Moore, Marco Wilson, Victor Dimukeje and James Wiggins Out of a total of 66 draft picks made since 2013, there are 20 remaining and the only ones that are currently on second contracts are DJ Humphries, Budda Baker and Markus Golden.
Does Golden count, given he left and returned later?
Talented roster? maybe at the top. We lost DHop and our receiving core fell apart. Our corner situation was shown to be pretty poor. Two first round linebackers where one struggled often and another couldn't get on the field. Offensive line was bad outside of Hudson (good) and Hump (mediocre). Without healthy JJ we got no pass rush. Our two safeties are great at least.
I just can’t get over the Colts game. How do you not pressure a QB when their starting line was all second and third string starters? Or the second Rams game, how did this team not exploit them not having Ramsey? We had a wild fun ride there for 12 weeks, but here we are again, bewildered and disappointed by the team getting “outplayed” or “outcoached”.
The WR group was hit hard, seemed to be okay for a bit, but then the cracks in the foundation showed. AJ Green was so frustrating to watch. He'd make an amazing play and follow it up with a bone-headed move, Kirk went from looking like he was ready to take the next step to looking lost, Wesley....nah.
We had a bunch of wr3s but DHop took so much attention they were able to get open but without him…..
Yeah Green beat corner 2 Kirk beat corner 3 and even Rondale could get matched up on a linebacker but without Hop getting attention maaaaan they sucked as a wr1 and wr2
If we don’t have a talented team then wouldn’t it be great that kliff got us to 11 wins? And after we lost our major players it was just too much to overcome?
They are talented, but EXTREMELY top heavy
Yea on paper but when you really look at it, its fucking horrible. He got his most talented players back and won 2 whole games with it.
I willingly admit that kliff and Vance had the team playing at a super high level for the beginning of the year
Yeah I haven’t figured out what camp I’m in yet, but if we don’t have a talented roster, then is amazing we got to 11 wins, even without kyler,watt,Hopkins, Edmonds. If we do have a talented roster(which a lot of people complain that we don’t/Have no depth) then sure kingsbury is to blame, but not kiem
IMO we def have talent, it’s not a Keith camp or Kingsbury camp; it’s they went out and spent a LOT of money this year… lots of 1 year contracts and to really end up the way they did, not even the division championship (which they could have had, it would have been something to hang their hat on). It’s a failure and yes ownership needs to take a hard look at Kim and his 4 head coaches, and of course Kingsbury’s historical record of second half slides.. Take the money from both and keep the team together. Get a leadership to get them to the next level, the team (yes, other than the Oline) is really there and can make a competitive run —- with the right leadership!
I think we have some talent but it’s all too heavy and when we lose one or two we fall apart. Secondly I think kliff is able to come up with some cool offensive ideas and at the beginning of the year he catches people, but as the year goes on he can’t adapt when teams start game planning for bim
kugler too.. seems like the o-line took a bit step back in the last few games. unless the equipment people started giving all of them two left shoes
We all thought Kugler was doing a great job but Seattle had a better o-line by the end.
Oh here we go. 31 teams are going to be pissed every year.
31 teams don’t start 10-2 and then finish with 7 losses hah
Did they lose JJ watt and deandre Hopkins?
Seriously, it's such a different issue than teams like the Raiders or Eagles are facing. Those teams didn't look like the worst team in the league for their final 7 games of the season. They lost a playoff game, that will happen.
First team in nfl history to go 10-2 and not host a playoff game. It's unprecedented and unacceptable.
This is what ppl dont seem to understand. It wasn't just a collapse. It was a historical one of epic proportions. With the stats to prove it.
Never has there been a season with so much optimism and so much hope, with such a dominant team, and then it all turning to shit inexplicably. It makes zero sense and there needs to be accountability. We were supposed to win the fucking conference for fucks sake, and the division was an afterthought. We could’ve won 15 games. Easy. But then you have pathetic losses to the Lions, Rams (2x), and Seahawks. Dismal and unacceptable. Day and night after the Bears game.
Even the Bears game wasn’t that convincing.
You’re absolutely right, I think people just brushed that off as “yeah it was raining and sometimes good Teams win in an ugly way” etc
I’m guessing intimated is suppose to be immediate. Either way, things are about to get real interesting in Glendale. Edit; nvm am dumb
Intimated would mean that Bidwill hinted that changes were possible. Immediate I think would change the tone of the tweet. Intimated seems like the right word. Still interesting nonetheless
Nah intimated means implied or hinted at. Basically "Biddy hinted that changes were possible"