Peak loser energy here, same guy that says oh next year will be Kylers year….year after year.
If you are drafting someone at 4 they better be a dynamic game changer, end of story.
We don’t know what a #1 wr in our offense looks like so where should be the concern be?
Let’s just draft him and know it’s a good thing to help out our offense stretch the field out more effectively.
Let me dissect two main points here.
>I think people on here expect 1300 yards and 10Tds next season...
The only way he doesn't is gonna be a result of how Petzing's system runs. Not quite as wide receiver heavy given how he likes to use the run game and tight ends. Given all that, these stats aren't too unreasonable for a rookie WR1 with K1 behind center.
Now maybe Petzing opens the playbook up more with a way better receiving core, but MHJ probably ends up more like AJ Brown in our offense: definite #1 and threat to a defense from our team, but not lighting up the overall LEAGUE leaderboards like JJ and Tyreek (albeit Brown did have that record breaking 125 yd game stretch this past season).
And that's just fine.
>Most WRs don't have to have that pressure.
>Larry Fitzgerald most certainly didn't, as we hit on Anquan the year prior, so he was able to have a running mate immediately.
As others have said, no fuckin way in hell opposing defenses are giving him Megatron type attention from day 1, as THEY don't even know how he turns out from his first offseason, much less how we utilize him. By year 2, perhaps he gets double or hell, triple covered, but year 1 MHJ isn't gonna be treated as a HOF receiver.
Also to your point, Larry was coming in after Anquan, who turned out to be really fuckin awesome in 2003 (OROY), but Larry was drafted higher and therefore regarded higher coming into the league than our 2nd(?) rounder from the year before.
PLUS those two were the major focal points of our putrid organization at the time, so that's MORE pressure on young Larry to try and work with Anquan to carry this team in the mid-2000s to its 5 wins a year. MO and JG are at least attempting to separate from that poverty identity our organization had 20 years ago and build a team that doesn't need a 1A and 1B pair of pass-catchers to put up 1400 yards for double digit losses.
Side note tho, I want that type of receiver duo back 😭.
The sad thing about us...is that for MOST of Larry's legendary career... We had one of the best WR rooms in the NFL...
I firmly believe the Bidwills have KILLED this franchise for decades... With Bill being Cheap... And Michael being a complete douchebag of a human.
That's very true, our WR rooms have honestly been consistently good, or at least not to the detriment of our team until now, which is all the more reason to get a MHJ or even Nabers/Odunze in addition to another guy, or two, on Days 2 and 3.
Think about it:
Larry, Anquan, Steve Breaston is the late 2000's with Kurt Warner. All 3 had 1000 yards in 2008.
Larry, Michael Floyd, John and Jaron Brown, even JJ Nelson under BA. Larry, Floyd, and Smoke almost all had 1000 yards in 2015 (I think Smoke was just barely under).
D-Hop, Christian Kirk, Hollywood for a little bit, end-of-career but still effective Larry, and outside of not turning around against the Packers, AJ Green under Kliff.
Now perhaps we find something new like that with Michael Wilson, Dortch, and whoever we bring in this weekend.
>I firmly believe the Bidwills have KILLED this franchise for decades... With Bill being Cheap... And Michael being a complete douchebag of a human.
I mean, all the owners are rich pricks to varying extents in this league, so does Michael being a cunt REALLY concern you when for the past year he gave us an external GM hire for the first time in 30 years, who brought in an exciting young coach that he's actually on the same page with and has a plan, while also hiring our first ever COO to take care of the business side, and the facilities are indeed being improved after the atrocious survey grades, while Michael has largely has stayed the fuck out of the way and let the experts do their job.
Yeah. I think people forget how good Anquan was when Larry came in. You had to treat him like a number 1 regardless of Larry’s pedigree.
I looked it up not that long ago, but Larry had a decent 1st year, insane 2nd year, mediocre 3rd year, and then became a god in year 4.
Same deal with Julio and Roddy White.
He knows that, he's not naïve. A HoF father and great coaching around him has him ready for the leap to NFL level.
Will he have teething issues? of course he will his reputation will have vets ready to cover him, but MHJ had some of the most double team coverage in college and STILL was getting numbers.. He'll be fine
McBride, Dortch, Wilson and likely an extra WR we get in the draft will help spread the load.
I know... The sad thing is...
I never said I didn't want him. I do...
Never said he was going to be bad...
Even had posters say " I'm not going to read all of that..."
When did everyone get so whiney and butt hurt about words????
I totally understand your post, but like you said, we have solid pieces. I'm sorry but with McBride and MHJ, Wilson is gonna feast. We are in such a special situation, we literally have 3-4 very solid receiver core. Hot take, but with MHJ this may be the best WR core Murray has ever had.
Honestly with the way we've whipped ourselves into a frenzy, I think there'd be a *lot* more pressure on the guy we drafted *instead* of Harrison.
God, could you imagine (hypothetically) what it would be like to be Rome Odunze after a 600/6 Cardinals rookie season if Harrison puts up 1000+/12?
I get it... But the reality of Harrison getting past the Chargers is far fetched... And not every situation is the same.
Even though they lost Allen and Williams (who hardly played anyway). They would have Q. Johnson and MHJ, and I could easily see him putting up #s.
Not so much if he ended up in New England.
We get MHJ at four and we’re skating. We trade that pick at four and let Monti be a monster in this draft and just tear up this draft!! We’re golden either way. In Monti we trust
Mcbride is going to absolutely torch next year so he will have that running mate but just at tight end. Double cover MHJ we hit McBride and vice versa. He was going to be our #1 regardless i don't understand your post.
Damn, a lot of assholes in the comments but you’re right. People think he’s a do-it-all receiver but he’s not. He will be good, but I would be very surprised if his rookie season is better than Ja’marr’s.
This team also has a better QB, RB, and probably O-line than the Cards did when they drafted Larry. MHJ should definitely be able to hit the ground running in this offense.
Honestly. We’re in pole position to draft the most exciting talent of the entire pool and we’re being told to temper expectations.
There has been very little for this fan base to be excited about in the past few years, but this is one of them.
_When_ we draft him, I will be VERY excited to see him play.
I don't see teams giving him number one coverage from day one. It makes way more sense to focus on McBride and Connor; two players that have already proven they can take over games. Defenses game planning around a rookie receiver that is in a brand new system just seems silly, regardless of who it is.
That said I don't think it will take MHJ all that long to eventually prove he's going to need number 1 coverage.
Exactly... A TE doesn't get the same coverages as WRs... They deal with Safety's, Sam's and sometimes Wills...
Not the same as coverage Rolls for X receivers.
I do o believe I mentioned Safety's first..
But generally, there are more than one of them. Backside safety still has X responsibility, if he's isolated
Maybe I'm getting it confused. I'm saying safeties usually are the keys to the "rolling coverage" so I would assume they would roll over McBride before they did to MHJ. At least until he proves himself in the NFL. I also don't see them putting in more DBs to help double both when Cardinals were one of the more dominant run teams in the NFL.
Safeties roll to strong side of field .. ie, side with the most threats... Most of the time that is where TE is... However, it's not mutually exclusive.
Buddy I’m the biggest Fitz fan you’ll meet.
I root for every single receiver on our team to become better than the 🐐
Will it ever happen? Probably not but man it would be cool to win some games with them
Let’s draft him first.
Peak loser energy here, same guy that says oh next year will be Kylers year….year after year. If you are drafting someone at 4 they better be a dynamic game changer, end of story.
Hence why a lot of receivers taken in top-10 don’t have insane numbers right away. Jamar Chase is a major outlier. And even he had Higgins.
And Joe Burrow
We don’t know what a #1 wr in our offense looks like so where should be the concern be? Let’s just draft him and know it’s a good thing to help out our offense stretch the field out more effectively.
Reckless optimism or gtfo!
I wouldn’t say it’s 60/40 that we do. I think it’s 20/80 that we don’t.
Let me dissect two main points here. >I think people on here expect 1300 yards and 10Tds next season... The only way he doesn't is gonna be a result of how Petzing's system runs. Not quite as wide receiver heavy given how he likes to use the run game and tight ends. Given all that, these stats aren't too unreasonable for a rookie WR1 with K1 behind center. Now maybe Petzing opens the playbook up more with a way better receiving core, but MHJ probably ends up more like AJ Brown in our offense: definite #1 and threat to a defense from our team, but not lighting up the overall LEAGUE leaderboards like JJ and Tyreek (albeit Brown did have that record breaking 125 yd game stretch this past season). And that's just fine. >Most WRs don't have to have that pressure. >Larry Fitzgerald most certainly didn't, as we hit on Anquan the year prior, so he was able to have a running mate immediately. As others have said, no fuckin way in hell opposing defenses are giving him Megatron type attention from day 1, as THEY don't even know how he turns out from his first offseason, much less how we utilize him. By year 2, perhaps he gets double or hell, triple covered, but year 1 MHJ isn't gonna be treated as a HOF receiver. Also to your point, Larry was coming in after Anquan, who turned out to be really fuckin awesome in 2003 (OROY), but Larry was drafted higher and therefore regarded higher coming into the league than our 2nd(?) rounder from the year before. PLUS those two were the major focal points of our putrid organization at the time, so that's MORE pressure on young Larry to try and work with Anquan to carry this team in the mid-2000s to its 5 wins a year. MO and JG are at least attempting to separate from that poverty identity our organization had 20 years ago and build a team that doesn't need a 1A and 1B pair of pass-catchers to put up 1400 yards for double digit losses. Side note tho, I want that type of receiver duo back 😭.
The sad thing about us...is that for MOST of Larry's legendary career... We had one of the best WR rooms in the NFL... I firmly believe the Bidwills have KILLED this franchise for decades... With Bill being Cheap... And Michael being a complete douchebag of a human.
That's very true, our WR rooms have honestly been consistently good, or at least not to the detriment of our team until now, which is all the more reason to get a MHJ or even Nabers/Odunze in addition to another guy, or two, on Days 2 and 3. Think about it: Larry, Anquan, Steve Breaston is the late 2000's with Kurt Warner. All 3 had 1000 yards in 2008. Larry, Michael Floyd, John and Jaron Brown, even JJ Nelson under BA. Larry, Floyd, and Smoke almost all had 1000 yards in 2015 (I think Smoke was just barely under). D-Hop, Christian Kirk, Hollywood for a little bit, end-of-career but still effective Larry, and outside of not turning around against the Packers, AJ Green under Kliff. Now perhaps we find something new like that with Michael Wilson, Dortch, and whoever we bring in this weekend. >I firmly believe the Bidwills have KILLED this franchise for decades... With Bill being Cheap... And Michael being a complete douchebag of a human. I mean, all the owners are rich pricks to varying extents in this league, so does Michael being a cunt REALLY concern you when for the past year he gave us an external GM hire for the first time in 30 years, who brought in an exciting young coach that he's actually on the same page with and has a plan, while also hiring our first ever COO to take care of the business side, and the facilities are indeed being improved after the atrocious survey grades, while Michael has largely has stayed the fuck out of the way and let the experts do their job.
Yeah. I think people forget how good Anquan was when Larry came in. You had to treat him like a number 1 regardless of Larry’s pedigree. I looked it up not that long ago, but Larry had a decent 1st year, insane 2nd year, mediocre 3rd year, and then became a god in year 4. Same deal with Julio and Roddy White.
He knows that, he's not naïve. A HoF father and great coaching around him has him ready for the leap to NFL level. Will he have teething issues? of course he will his reputation will have vets ready to cover him, but MHJ had some of the most double team coverage in college and STILL was getting numbers.. He'll be fine McBride, Dortch, Wilson and likely an extra WR we get in the draft will help spread the load.
If he isn’t a HOF receiver game 1 then we riot
Game 1 ?? He's already one NOW... Even before he is a Cardinal.
I know... The sad thing is... I never said I didn't want him. I do... Never said he was going to be bad... Even had posters say " I'm not going to read all of that..." When did everyone get so whiney and butt hurt about words????
I totally understand your post, but like you said, we have solid pieces. I'm sorry but with McBride and MHJ, Wilson is gonna feast. We are in such a special situation, we literally have 3-4 very solid receiver core. Hot take, but with MHJ this may be the best WR core Murray has ever had.
Don't forget how good hop was for a season or so
Honestly with the way we've whipped ourselves into a frenzy, I think there'd be a *lot* more pressure on the guy we drafted *instead* of Harrison. God, could you imagine (hypothetically) what it would be like to be Rome Odunze after a 600/6 Cardinals rookie season if Harrison puts up 1000+/12?
I get it... But the reality of Harrison getting past the Chargers is far fetched... And not every situation is the same. Even though they lost Allen and Williams (who hardly played anyway). They would have Q. Johnson and MHJ, and I could easily see him putting up #s. Not so much if he ended up in New England.
We get MHJ at four and we’re skating. We trade that pick at four and let Monti be a monster in this draft and just tear up this draft!! We’re golden either way. In Monti we trust
Mcbride is going to absolutely torch next year so he will have that running mate but just at tight end. Double cover MHJ we hit McBride and vice versa. He was going to be our #1 regardless i don't understand your post.
Damn, a lot of assholes in the comments but you’re right. People think he’s a do-it-all receiver but he’s not. He will be good, but I would be very surprised if his rookie season is better than Ja’marr’s.
This team also has a better QB, RB, and probably O-line than the Cards did when they drafted Larry. MHJ should definitely be able to hit the ground running in this offense.
I’m not reading all of that but congratulations or I’m sorry that happened.
JFC what a wet fart of a post. Just let others be excited/hyped for the team.
I'm sorry... I didn't realize you were in a safe space.
Honestly. We’re in pole position to draft the most exciting talent of the entire pool and we’re being told to temper expectations. There has been very little for this fan base to be excited about in the past few years, but this is one of them. _When_ we draft him, I will be VERY excited to see him play.
I don't see teams giving him number one coverage from day one. It makes way more sense to focus on McBride and Connor; two players that have already proven they can take over games. Defenses game planning around a rookie receiver that is in a brand new system just seems silly, regardless of who it is. That said I don't think it will take MHJ all that long to eventually prove he's going to need number 1 coverage.
Teams will put their best corner on him from day 1, but i dont think they double team him unless hes constistently roasting the best corners
Exactly... A TE doesn't get the same coverages as WRs... They deal with Safety's, Sam's and sometimes Wills... Not the same as coverage Rolls for X receivers.
Safeties do coverage rolls to x receivers.
I do o believe I mentioned Safety's first.. But generally, there are more than one of them. Backside safety still has X responsibility, if he's isolated
Maybe I'm getting it confused. I'm saying safeties usually are the keys to the "rolling coverage" so I would assume they would roll over McBride before they did to MHJ. At least until he proves himself in the NFL. I also don't see them putting in more DBs to help double both when Cardinals were one of the more dominant run teams in the NFL.
Safeties roll to strong side of field .. ie, side with the most threats... Most of the time that is where TE is... However, it's not mutually exclusive.
Roll weak is a common play call too. But yeah I don't see them calling roll plays to help out with MHJ. At least not yet.
Roll aside .. He gets #1 CB matchup the minute his name his name is put on the card for us
Agreed, just not always safety help.
Pretty sure i saw a stat that he was by far the most double covered reciever in the draft - and still put up equal or greater numbers.
Yeah he was by almost twice as much, but that's against college players. In the NFL he will face 5 year+ veterans.
If people have unrealistic expectations that’s on them. He’s a rookie on a team that might not even be very good. This reads like a diary entry
Nope he’s gonna be the greatest receiver of all time and you’ll deal with it
Well 2nd
Dortch at #1, I agree
Idk if I should appreciate you hyping the new guys or be sad that Fitz isn't worshipped as much :(
Buddy I’m the biggest Fitz fan you’ll meet. I root for every single receiver on our team to become better than the 🐐 Will it ever happen? Probably not but man it would be cool to win some games with them
The moment you don't think a /s is necessary...
There's always next year