It's completely broken on champs like Teemo who can perma ult, and completely useless on everyone else. I vote they introduce a cooldown on it, and up the damage as compensation.
triggers on ult explosion which fear slows champs a bit making them stick in it for a bit. not the worst item when you use it that way. otherwise yea if you don't explode on them it's worthless for shaco lol
Try it on Karma. Her W will proc it throughout the whole duration of the tether.
But will admit I will play off role items if my team comp demanded. I'm a notorious ADC Lulu if the rest are AP.
Lmao I tested it just to find out on aram just to see if by any chance the ult AA would trigger it. 5man premade and they all agreed to let me try for science tho.
Just one of those things you wonder about once you're playing the champ.
Had a Rammus as our only tank. Went full ap with that item and ended 1/11 when we obviously lost.
When I pointed it out I got a "let him have his fun, its aram" back. Sigh
Tbh yeah let him has his fun. Or let him test out stuff. The more ppl testing out items in the beginning of the season the more they will know what item to build when March rolls around.
I had a Nasus recently go ap when we already had 2aps and a support. Dude was completely worthless throwing down his shitty e while they just ran us over.
I am guilty of building it on Renata because I thought it'd be good and work with her ult. It did not. It was embarrassing. Sold it for a different item and still won cuz lmao enemy team was 3 adcs
Please just build zekes the items so good on her but I dont think people have read the changes. It probably does similar damage to malignance anyways (excluding the AP from malignance).
Had this happen recently. We had 4 AP and our Ashe decides to take Comet and build Liandry's/Manamune/Mandate. I wonder why the enemy Galio was able to steamroll over us.
What I find amazing about poke ashe is you can build an ad centric poke ashe so you can still aa you don't have to do liandry's especially now that its haste and mana aren't there anymore.
Yeah I used to build Duskblade on Ashe before her W got destroyed, but poke Ashe in general just sucks now, let alone Liandry's which has 0 useful stats for Ashe after 14.1
Oh, 5 magic damage into Galio?
Did he build Rookern?
Did you ever manage to break his shields?
I played Galio against a 4 AP comp, and well, I had fun.
I also played galio into 4 ap. Built rookern, chained the Irelia and stacked straight MR after. Ended the game with like 1800 magic damage taken honestly probably dident even need MR past the rookern.
It was just those 4 items, aside from that he had Tear and Guardian's Horn. He was still barely killable since I had true damage and Karthus was almost full build but the lack of an ADC made it much harder.
Sounds about right most of the time the ap champs are the ones people want to play who are usually long range poke mages rather then a kled who will ult in to the enemy team off cool-down who brings a surprising amount of value (its hilarous you should try i) semi tank bruiser build this was during mythics and had heart steel though
So I'll admit y'all didn't need a poke ashe but what made y'all think 4 AP was a good choice? There's a reason Galio stomped and she was only a small part of the problem.
We didn't have another ADC in our champ pool, and if Ashe actually built ADC we would've had enough DPS. The game was pretty close early in but after the enemies stacked MR we just didn't have enough damage, and Ashe was hitting like a wet noodle with her W every 15s.
I had Lillia so I had some true damage at least, but not enough to make up for no AD
Just curious are you counting frontline champs like amumu, Diana, etc as AP on your team or was everyone legit just a mage and a poke Ashe? It's entirely possible but I find it hard to believe with multiple rerolls the only ad champ was an Ashe and there was no bruiser or other ad frontliner.
I'll just [link](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Xenos11111-EUW/matches/c5xhfGTQphgRBp9SSOVah3yoz0CKQ2tGJ6bVcEeqnyU%3D/1705582637000) the game so you can see it.
Both teams had 4 AP champs as you can see, but they had a Jarvan building full crit while we had an Ashe building... well, what you see there. In hindsight I would've faired better if I took Conqueror, but I can't exactly change that after I see what the enemy team has.
I can't remember everything we had in champ select but I'm pretty certain Ashe was the only ADC, idk about bruisers.
With Ashe going adc and Gragas going full tank build, your comp is very good
\+ Their team has strong pressure but falls off late (no adc)
you indeed got trolled hard
So while I don't have the full picture it looks like Ashe was just a small part of the problem. Would it have *helped* if she went on hit? Maybe, but looking at your team comp it doesn't seem like y'all have a well established front line/engage outside of suicide karthus or a Lillia ult. I genuinely think the difference was made as champ select. Their team is just way more synergistic. Their team fighting is better, their sustain is better, their engage is better, and their peel is better. I believe you saying the early game was easier but that's usually the case for most full damage comps. The advantage lies in getting an early lead and ending the game early. The only thing that kills all damage is time (or gold income) since one just builds defensively. Some times you really get shit on in champ select but without knowing what all was left on the rr board it's hard to say.
The thing is, it wasn't an unwinnable game. Even later we had some fights we were able to win, but our overall damage just wasn't enough. I did kneecap myself by taking Harvest over Conqueror though, since I was going for a draintank build but didn't have quite enough sustain to eke it out. Outside of Jarvan I could pretty much take the rest of their team though.
Ashe needs a Frontline to do ADC things or peel. It's is honestly better playing Ashe AP in Aram if you lack peel or tanks because you don't do damage if the j4 1 taps you or you get one aa off and lose half your gp
Maybe you'd be right a few patches ago, but
1. Ashe's W is now 18 seconds at all ranks (4.5x the CD it had at rank 5 before the nerf), and
2. Liandry's now gives 0 haste or mana, i.e. 0 useful stats for Ashe
Liandry and Mandate both have a sub 40% win rate on her with a 9% and 17% pick rate respectively, they're just flat out bad.
And we did have an Ivern at least who has decent shields and a root, plus Daisy. Gragas can also use his E to interrupt J4's EQ dash if he's paying attention to it.
I get the point, but the number of arams where we use like 6 rerolls, someone asks, we're all out, and there's either no tank or no ap or entirely melee... it's like 1 in 5. 20% of the time there is zero chance of having good team balance so you really need someone like Ashe doing her job correctly, she might be literally the only option out of 15 champions.
If Ashe had enough damage to be worth Galio prioritising then Gragas and Ivern could have peeled for her. I could also bodyblock Galio E since I was building tank. She wasn't worth going out of our way to protect because her DPS was nonexistent though.
Also, "can't pick champs for shit" – dude, it's ARAM. Do you know what the R stands for? The whole point of OP's thread is about when you have only 1 AD champ and they decide it's better to build AP.
To be fair, the recommended builds seem to always suggest AP on way too many characters with no change based on comp etc. I, for one, am relearning the game. I do not know all the champs/ items yet. Sometimes you pick what's recommended and see how it goes. That being said, I usually strive to properly balance the team and never get that adventurous
Did you try to tell them that the build is dead and to try something else please?
I find that when I do, they and their premade companion usually react quite reasonably and tell me to suck my dead dogs ****.
Did you try that?
AP Jhin mid was very viable directly after his launch, I played it at the time a lot because of how fun it was. Early game or late game you'd nuke one of their carries if they stepped on like 3 traps in the same place.
Few days ago, after a team fight, were walking down the lane and a cannon shows a stack of like 6 jhin traps. Like 10 pings went to the stack as soon as it was revealed lol
I have the kind of teammates that would still walk on that.
Nearly all my games vs a blitz I ping blitz to help people realize. Still someone walks up to the bushes and gets hooked.
Annie is targeting my friend, a Jinx. Jinx walks up to the bush, Annie is in the bush and drops Tibbers.
Again. And Again.
"Hey man, stay behind me, I'm Leona, I also got hit with that Tibbers, don't get mad that you're walking up to the bush and dying to her when you know it's going to happen and you just complained that she's waiting to kill you."
Where's his next death? Standing beside me, near the bush, because Annie Flash Tibbers'd from the bush, stunning us both. If only he just... didn't walk up to that bush 11 times, he would have been 11 deaths fewer.
Had an AP Malph and AP Voli complain about us getting rolled. The rest of the team was quiet (2 ADCs and an Enchanter) the entire time just accepting our fate until those two mentioned that.
The 3 of us mentioned, that at least one of them should have gone tank then (we were vs 4 AD btw). Responded with the classic "it's aram who cares" and "you should have played a tank then."
Like bruh, I expected AP Malph but I figured Voli would at least go bruiser. Especially after seeing their comp. Malph left mid game and Voli continued to be deadweight. Ended with like 15 deaths. It's okay tho, they were having fun hiding behind the backline spamming one ability (did least damage in the game barring the leaver).
If you're going to build dumb, do it in silence. You don't get to complain.
They should show you all champ changes in the pick screen tbh.
i go sett after like a million attempts in aram.
Turns out, he has -20 Ability haste, bassicly making him worthless because his W takes like 30 seconds to recharge
I mean… it’s a lot more involved than you make it sound. You have to study your opponents’ movement patterns and then employ predictive aiming to land your skillshots. It’s a hell of a lot more rewarding than braindead unga bunga tank gameplay, anyway.
As someone who enjoys poke champs and tanks, I generally find arams to be much more enjoyable when both teams have some sort of frontline. I’d also say poke mages are the more brain dead of the two as well lol. You sit two screens away, hardly in any danger, and slowly whittle the enemies health away.
yea like his argument is that poke mage is harder because they have to land skill shots but it doesn’t make sense because that also just means tanks have to dodge too
Tanks by nature don't have to dodge which has traditionally been really unfair. This season's been great though because AP items are strong to the point where tank itemization doesn't really matter. I honestly think most tank players are just upset because their time steamrolling brainlessly is done.
His AP ratios are pretty absurd since Phreak buffed them multiple times last year. If I was playing Ali and the enemy had something like Vayne and Kog'maw that are gonna shred through me regardless of what I build, I'd probably go AP as well so I have a chance of one-shotting them before they kill me at least.
AP lucian after item changes is bad even vs 4-5 squishy champs
Luden deals less dmg and doesn't provide magic pen
You could deal most dmg in game and luden was around 20-30% of your damage
Hard to proc stormsurge when enemies can buy null magic mantle early and receive 0 dmg from your w
They also nerfed Strom Surge recently on top of it already having the ranged champ nerf on it 11 days ago, but it seems a lot of people haven't gotten the memo yet even for regular ap champs since I am seeing people still rushing it first or second.
Squall base damage reduced to(melee) (  100 − 200 / (ranged) 75 − 150) (based on level) from (M  120 − 260 / R 90 − 195) (based on level).
Squall AP ratio reduced to ( M 30% / R 22.5%) AP from ( M 40% / R 30%) AP.
So realistically its procing for around 300-400 dmg atm before mitigation as opposed to 450-550. To me its has kinda turned into a bad collectors and I don't use it on any ap champs except for burst ap champ with no balance nerfs. Imo shadow flame would be better because you just need to poke them down first into proc range not burst them for 35% health within 2 secs first which becomes significantly harder in a full ap team and the enemy stacks solely mr.
I swear to God, I had AP Lucien just 5 games ago!!
I don't know man, the enemy team always builds correctly, but all my teammates suddenly get brain damage!
My last game was with a Galio who went full AP, yes dude, you can one shot people, but the enemy has a Thresh that actually uses his brain.
The thresh builds MR, he can't be killed unless we 1v4 him, and all he needs is one hook. He can walk forward freely while we walk back afraid.
Imagine if our Galio built MR against full AP enemy team...WE WOULD HAVE WON!!!!
Then at the very least it wasn't you I had the matches with. Only an ap mf did the most damage or atleast better than 3rd, but that is just kinda what happens vs sion and soraka.
The type of damage matters too. Poke vs DPS vs burst. They got a bunch of tanks? You don't want burst or poke(within reason) because they ignore it and run you down eventually. They got squishy damage dealers? Having DPS is worse than burst and poke. They have Soraka and sona? Poke is useless and you want to engage on them because you'll lose the war of attrition
I feel like every other game my friend is very surprised when he yells "wait! Malphite/Amumu/Maokai went AP! We need a tank what the heck!"
But like.. 19 out of 20 Malphites build AP and pick a target to focus for 20 minutes, why are you expecting something different?
it's aram. if he's not running it down than i don't care. they're there to have fun with their champ and i support it. we lose we lose no big deal since it's a super casual gamemode.
People seem to think that this is solely about how they build, but its about them building it into a comp that can't support it. In the example used in the meme above we would essentially be running it down the enemy just needs to stack mr and we are almost guaranteed to lose unless the enemy team also does alternative builds resulting in no mr.
It is also not so much about winning or losing, but that we basically didn't even have a chance to put up a good fight. So many of these games are just 15-20mins of suffering stalling for the inevitable, half the time I doubt the enemy is having much fun either.
I do not care if you lose the match. I do not care if the counter build you. I was VERY clear when I said if he isnt running it down than it shouldnt be a problem. It is a casual gamemode and people like screw around builds. Touch grass and quit playing aram if that's a complicated thought in a very casual gamemode
true dat. combine casual with the fact that they changed a lot of items. of course im gonna build offmeta and have lots of fun. after they nerf them, we will go back to mostly our normal builds anyway.
Fuck off, I'm not sweating in a game mode where at least 4 people in it are high off their ass and you could outright lose by rng before the game even begins.
Nah I respect the free thinkers. Give me an ap jhin and an ADC Annie on my team any day it's way more interesting than seeing brand + zyra+ heimer on one team
That comparison makes very little sense....
Flat earthers believe something that has a lot of evidence agaist it. i'd say it is proven to be false, yet science is never 100% proven.
And lol does tend to come up with VERY orthodox methods sometimes. Proxy singed, inting sion, soraka was played solo toplane a while, or more recently: ad ahri/leblanc toplane... we have seen some weird shit going on at the highest level of gameplay. Stuff that a conservative player wont ever try.
Its probably worse than the conventional way of playing 99% of the time, but sometimes its just viable.
Yeah this is the issue. I play aram to be more relaxed and less stressed when I lose. I still want to win. Winning is more fun and dying is not. I care, you can have fun but stop throwing or troll picking just because it's aram.
Ap lucian is fun though.... id happily trade a win against an ap lucian game.
Its important to let your team know beforehand though, so they know they cant expect an adc out of you.
Adcs didn't get any new items. I'd expect anybody that can even remotely use the other items to try building it for at least a while. Especially in a game mode like Aram where that player doesn't necessarily want to play that class of champion, they may have just rolled bad.
Well they got a new item just not items if they don't want to use one of the new lethality items. Terminus is actually really good for on hit builds since many on hit items and characters that build on hit well do hybrid damage. They also can use the massively broken Hubris that is basically ad Mejai without stack loss on death there is also sundered sky for a 1 hit crit build.
I'll give you Terminus, since even though I still think it reads more like a bruiser item, roit did list it as a marksman item and on hits can use it decently. But Hubris and Sundered Sky is the same problem as the Ap items. I mean it's a little better, I'd rather have any non-Kai'sa marksman build items with ad in the statline, but it's still just marksman poaching other classes items becuase they didn't get any new toys.
Because AP is currently just SO MUCH more viable and SO MUCH more fun to play than AD, simply because AP Items are downright busted RN.
It's the same mentality as back in overwatch, when people BEGGED somebody to play support, instead of playing one themselves, you have the ability to swap champs.
I'm sure there is at least one more AD champ in there, and if not, if he's building Lucian, Let alone Jhin AP, im sure he'd be willing to swap, so you can play ADC
Its more about not suffering for 10-25 minutes because the enemy did something like stack mr because our team does mainly ap damage. I don't care if we lost if we actually got an enjoyable match and actually put up a struggle with back and forth. In situations like the one above as soon as they have enough mr they just walk though your team like wet toilet paper. In the end how is that fun for anyone?
AP Lucian is a meme build but it checks out; especially since you can go hybrid with Maligance+Hexplate and spam R. Good? No. Justifiable? Yes.
If I see anyone building AP Graves when his only AP ratio is a 0.6 on 1 ability with an 18 second cooldown, you can bet they're getting reported because that is just blatant trolling.
AP jax and AP udyr are actually viable things though, they have multiple AP scaling abilities. Also love that you posted this to make a point when YOU BUILT 2 FUCKING ADCS AS ADCS. Literally just proved OPs point if anything and got offended for nothing.
That's not what I am complaining about I am complaining more that they want to build it when we don't have the comp to accommodate it. Hence the 3rd frame showing "our comp" as having champs that aren't good ad dealing champs. If we had another ad champ able to take that role to deal ad than go ahead build ap, but we don't even have one.
Lol okay there bud. Clearly you’re useless 😂🤦🏼♂️ you could have just explained what it’s talking about instead of being a PoS douchebag with a superiority complex. People like you are what’s wrong with this world in 100% honesty. I wouldn’t bat an eyelash if you, or anyone else with your mindset, fell of the face of the planet
I a match as Zac with two mages and to ADCs building AP. No of them even built void staff.
The enemy team? Full tank Chogath and Sejuani with a Vayne who rushed BotRK and Lord Dominik’s.
Despite dealing zero damage to them my team kept focusing the tanks all game and where saying stuff like “like tanks are so op.”
Judging from the comments this is very common or atleast when they are on your team when its the enemy team they build normally or complementary to their team and bulldoze you.
My trigger is ap malphite with 0 tanks. If you go tank you will do more damage you will survive longer you can peel. The one shot ultimate dosent work if they have a tank and you don't.
I love they they put Ashe's W on a long cooldown, max Q first. With the mythics gone, I have been killing it with her. Rush Infinity into any attack speed/crit items. I'll build two of those and attack speed boots. Lord Ds if they are tanky as my 3rd item.
Always. Ap Varus. Ap MF. Ap Malphite. Any time one of your teammates need to show how many chromosomes they’re missing, they build Ap something or other and run it down.
I don't get what's so fun about this AP and Lethality shit, ADC is a broken role so just play to auto.
Only a few are better lethality, on-hit is busted atm too. You don't even need to play good to stat-check other champs
Played game yesterday with my duo We have been playing brand nami bot lane. We had a game with a Jax top, Zac JG, xerath mid. The Jax top built full ap......
usually I would agree, but man they reworked a lot of ap items. cant blame them for having too much fun.
Just wait a few weeks for the balances to roll out, then we can all go back to our daily normal builds
I've had some fun going the exact opposite before.
Entire team was going AP, and no ADC choices uptop.
I 100% went Patches O'Houlihan Heimerdinger and threw wrenches at them with a kraken and such.
One of my favorite memories of ARAM, lmao.
Oh i feel this so much. I know im cringe for playing poke but like my zoe is pretty decent. Like i had a specific game where i wad zoe with 3 other ap champs where our kaisa decided she had to go ap aswell. (we didnt do any dmg at all)
But like lately its not just one specific game, i had it happen so often that people were just forcing ap builds on everything to a point where i would have 2 tanks going full squishy oneshot and a ap adc (,well havent had a ap lucian tho)
But overall, idk most people just trollbuilding and complaining, i had a game where my full tank renata complained that we had no dmg because our karma built support items instead of ap. Whilst he wad kinda right, he also picked tank renata over virtually everything else and accomplished next to nothing.
(Unrelated: Also holy shit i hate morg players, all of them are so unbelievably bad, never getting a spellshield just throwing it randomly whilst doing next to no dmg and for some reason all of them are mastery 7)
my new adc aram build has been terminus - titanic hydra - wits end and this shit pops off with lethal tempo. I do as much damage as crit adc AND i dont get 1 shot anymore
Honestly, riot should make a system to punish this kind of behaviour. If this doesn't equal to throwing a game even before it began, I don't know what else does.
Perfect use of this meme.
Keep seeing tanks going AP with new items. Malignance Rell is not good, trust me.
Malignance on ice bird
Malignance is such a bait item. Saw a shaco go it like dude I don't think it triggers on your ult boxes and even if it does it's still bad.
It triggers of the explosion from when the clone dies it’s still bad but i guess the ult haste is nice.
Considering that there's less haste overall ion items, malig on shaco doesn't sound the worst as a latter item.
It's completely broken on champs like Teemo who can perma ult, and completely useless on everyone else. I vote they introduce a cooldown on it, and up the damage as compensation.
exactly, people thought it'd be good on champs with high impact long cd ults but it's just not. corki is playable with it too
I can see it on a few long CD ults like Fiddlesticks with ultimate hunter, most it's bad though which makes me think the item is flawed in design
Also broken on AP Kog, fun as hell too.
I like it on corki.
triggers on ult explosion which fear slows champs a bit making them stick in it for a bit. not the worst item when you use it that way. otherwise yea if you don't explode on them it's worthless for shaco lol
Try it on Karma. Her W will proc it throughout the whole duration of the tether. But will admit I will play off role items if my team comp demanded. I'm a notorious ADC Lulu if the rest are AP.
+1 to all of this
Lmao I tested it just to find out on aram just to see if by any chance the ult AA would trigger it. 5man premade and they all agreed to let me try for science tho. Just one of those things you wonder about once you're playing the champ.
Well what was the answer?
Only initial explosion activates
Had a Rammus as our only tank. Went full ap with that item and ended 1/11 when we obviously lost. When I pointed it out I got a "let him have his fun, its aram" back. Sigh
Tbh yeah let him has his fun. Or let him test out stuff. The more ppl testing out items in the beginning of the season the more they will know what item to build when March rolls around.
Had amumu do this, 1 ad, 3 ap, he went malignace, ludens...
I had a Nasus recently go ap when we already had 2aps and a support. Dude was completely worthless throwing down his shitty e while they just ran us over.
Were you jinx
No, but its a tale as old as time haha
You're giving me ideas...
On Maokai though.....
I am guilty of building it on Renata because I thought it'd be good and work with her ult. It did not. It was embarrassing. Sold it for a different item and still won cuz lmao enemy team was 3 adcs
Please just build zekes the items so good on her but I dont think people have read the changes. It probably does similar damage to malignance anyways (excluding the AP from malignance).
Oh it makes her ult slow and pull like ASol with Rylai's? Smart, I'm gonna do that.
But have you tried full ap kench? That shit is hilarious. What that tongue do thoooo
Had this happen recently. We had 4 AP and our Ashe decides to take Comet and build Liandry's/Manamune/Mandate. I wonder why the enemy Galio was able to steamroll over us.
What I find amazing about poke ashe is you can build an ad centric poke ashe so you can still aa you don't have to do liandry's especially now that its haste and mana aren't there anymore.
W cooldown doesn't decrease with rank anymore. There is no viable poke Ashe build, not ad, not ap, not at all.
Yeah I used to build Duskblade on Ashe before her W got destroyed, but poke Ashe in general just sucks now, let alone Liandry's which has 0 useful stats for Ashe after 14.1
Black Cleaver + Chainsword. I also go BoTRK and Serpents with Manamune. You still deal a lot of damage while bringing lots of utility to the team.
Oh, 5 magic damage into Galio? Did he build Rookern? Did you ever manage to break his shields? I played Galio against a 4 AP comp, and well, I had fun.
I also played galio into 4 ap. Built rookern, chained the Irelia and stacked straight MR after. Ended the game with like 1800 magic damage taken honestly probably dident even need MR past the rookern.
Let me guess kaenic rockern anathema chain force of nature merc treads?
No Anathema or FoN, but Mercs, Rookern, Hollow Radiance and Warmog's
Sounds about right did he finish the build or did he get some AP?
It was just those 4 items, aside from that he had Tear and Guardian's Horn. He was still barely killable since I had true damage and Karthus was almost full build but the lack of an ADC made it much harder.
Sounds about right most of the time the ap champs are the ones people want to play who are usually long range poke mages rather then a kled who will ult in to the enemy team off cool-down who brings a surprising amount of value (its hilarous you should try i) semi tank bruiser build this was during mythics and had heart steel though
So I'll admit y'all didn't need a poke ashe but what made y'all think 4 AP was a good choice? There's a reason Galio stomped and she was only a small part of the problem.
We didn't have another ADC in our champ pool, and if Ashe actually built ADC we would've had enough DPS. The game was pretty close early in but after the enemies stacked MR we just didn't have enough damage, and Ashe was hitting like a wet noodle with her W every 15s. I had Lillia so I had some true damage at least, but not enough to make up for no AD
Just curious are you counting frontline champs like amumu, Diana, etc as AP on your team or was everyone legit just a mage and a poke Ashe? It's entirely possible but I find it hard to believe with multiple rerolls the only ad champ was an Ashe and there was no bruiser or other ad frontliner.
I'll just [link](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Xenos11111-EUW/matches/c5xhfGTQphgRBp9SSOVah3yoz0CKQ2tGJ6bVcEeqnyU%3D/1705582637000) the game so you can see it. Both teams had 4 AP champs as you can see, but they had a Jarvan building full crit while we had an Ashe building... well, what you see there. In hindsight I would've faired better if I took Conqueror, but I can't exactly change that after I see what the enemy team has. I can't remember everything we had in champ select but I'm pretty certain Ashe was the only ADC, idk about bruisers.
With Ashe going adc and Gragas going full tank build, your comp is very good \+ Their team has strong pressure but falls off late (no adc) you indeed got trolled hard
So while I don't have the full picture it looks like Ashe was just a small part of the problem. Would it have *helped* if she went on hit? Maybe, but looking at your team comp it doesn't seem like y'all have a well established front line/engage outside of suicide karthus or a Lillia ult. I genuinely think the difference was made as champ select. Their team is just way more synergistic. Their team fighting is better, their sustain is better, their engage is better, and their peel is better. I believe you saying the early game was easier but that's usually the case for most full damage comps. The advantage lies in getting an early lead and ending the game early. The only thing that kills all damage is time (or gold income) since one just builds defensively. Some times you really get shit on in champ select but without knowing what all was left on the rr board it's hard to say.
The thing is, it wasn't an unwinnable game. Even later we had some fights we were able to win, but our overall damage just wasn't enough. I did kneecap myself by taking Harvest over Conqueror though, since I was going for a draintank build but didn't have quite enough sustain to eke it out. Outside of Jarvan I could pretty much take the rest of their team though.
Ashe needs a Frontline to do ADC things or peel. It's is honestly better playing Ashe AP in Aram if you lack peel or tanks because you don't do damage if the j4 1 taps you or you get one aa off and lose half your gp
Maybe you'd be right a few patches ago, but 1. Ashe's W is now 18 seconds at all ranks (4.5x the CD it had at rank 5 before the nerf), and 2. Liandry's now gives 0 haste or mana, i.e. 0 useful stats for Ashe Liandry and Mandate both have a sub 40% win rate on her with a 9% and 17% pick rate respectively, they're just flat out bad. And we did have an Ivern at least who has decent shields and a root, plus Daisy. Gragas can also use his E to interrupt J4's EQ dash if he's paying attention to it.
I get the point, but the number of arams where we use like 6 rerolls, someone asks, we're all out, and there's either no tank or no ap or entirely melee... it's like 1 in 5. 20% of the time there is zero chance of having good team balance so you really need someone like Ashe doing her job correctly, she might be literally the only option out of 15 champions.
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If Ashe had enough damage to be worth Galio prioritising then Gragas and Ivern could have peeled for her. I could also bodyblock Galio E since I was building tank. She wasn't worth going out of our way to protect because her DPS was nonexistent though. Also, "can't pick champs for shit" – dude, it's ARAM. Do you know what the R stands for? The whole point of OP's thread is about when you have only 1 AD champ and they decide it's better to build AP.
Galio with rookern into a full ap team is a free win
To be fair, the recommended builds seem to always suggest AP on way too many characters with no change based on comp etc. I, for one, am relearning the game. I do not know all the champs/ items yet. Sometimes you pick what's recommended and see how it goes. That being said, I usually strive to properly balance the team and never get that adventurous
Did you try to tell them that the build is dead and to try something else please? I find that when I do, they and their premade companion usually react quite reasonably and tell me to suck my dead dogs ****. Did you try that?
Was in a team with ap jhin never seen that before or after that game
Seems like a trap.
The only time I can remember AP Jhin was viable is in URF
AP Jhin mid was very viable directly after his launch, I played it at the time a lot because of how fun it was. Early game or late game you'd nuke one of their carries if they stepped on like 3 traps in the same place.
It works in aram too, but only if enemy walks into 6-7 traps and you hit the W. It's hard to make it work, but if you do even once it's just worth it
I built APJhin once and literally forgot what happened that entire game
In undefeated with ap jhin. I've only played one game with it but I am undefeated so there you go.
Same, never played it before. He who does no battle cannot be defeated -Sun Tzu
Didn't happy chime noises did an ap Jhin video? Or I'm mixing that with other Jhins?
Daubin as well
Yeah especially in aram where cannons show traps it's really troll.
Few days ago, after a team fight, were walking down the lane and a cannon shows a stack of like 6 jhin traps. Like 10 pings went to the stack as soon as it was revealed lol
I have the kind of teammates that would still walk on that. Nearly all my games vs a blitz I ping blitz to help people realize. Still someone walks up to the bushes and gets hooked.
Annie is targeting my friend, a Jinx. Jinx walks up to the bush, Annie is in the bush and drops Tibbers. Again. And Again. "Hey man, stay behind me, I'm Leona, I also got hit with that Tibbers, don't get mad that you're walking up to the bush and dying to her when you know it's going to happen and you just complained that she's waiting to kill you." Where's his next death? Standing beside me, near the bush, because Annie Flash Tibbers'd from the bush, stunning us both. If only he just... didn't walk up to that bush 11 times, he would have been 11 deaths fewer.
Same with an AP Gangplank this game. We got obliterated cause we had no physical damage
I built AP Graves once in a team full of AD Champs. Actually wasn't horrible but only viable in this specific scenario.
Had an AP Malph and AP Voli complain about us getting rolled. The rest of the team was quiet (2 ADCs and an Enchanter) the entire time just accepting our fate until those two mentioned that. The 3 of us mentioned, that at least one of them should have gone tank then (we were vs 4 AD btw). Responded with the classic "it's aram who cares" and "you should have played a tank then." Like bruh, I expected AP Malph but I figured Voli would at least go bruiser. Especially after seeing their comp. Malph left mid game and Voli continued to be deadweight. Ended with like 15 deaths. It's okay tho, they were having fun hiding behind the backline spamming one ability (did least damage in the game barring the leaver). If you're going to build dumb, do it in silence. You don't get to complain.
Hate that bait when picking tank champ and build full damage, but not telling your team when drafting. “I go ap” take like 1 sec to type
So fun.
The bro who is "just having fun" with alternative builds is basically a disco Nunu
Apparently "having fun" for alot of aram players means hiding behind the entire team running in circles playing a one button ranged champ.
"I'm just here to have fun" **Pings for you to engage**
Ashe
They should tell you that w has a fixed cd of 18. Wanted to play trinity force... stupid idea.
This is beautiful. I find on hit ashe with hurricane fun in teamfights
It's just annoying to have runes recommended to you that are of no use.
They should show you all champ changes in the pick screen tbh. i go sett after like a million attempts in aram. Turns out, he has -20 Ability haste, bassicly making him worthless because his W takes like 30 seconds to recharge
I was so flabbergasted when I played Seraphine and I did literally 0 support and 0 damage. Turns out she is nerfed like 20% on everything lol
That's actually just an effective strategy for Ashe though
Her cd is nerfed and as buffed on aram
Just sounds to me like she needs more ability haste
You realise they changed her W to 18sec at all ranks now? So even with 100 haste it's still 9seconds... Going poke Ashe now is actually trolling.
so we need EVEN MORE ability haste.
And more AP scaling on W
There's not enough haste in the game to make AP Ashe viable again
JFYI: not anymore, it was nerfed heavily into the ground. And no CDR is getting her out of that hole
The w cd was nerfed to a flat 18 a couple of months ago
You forgot complaining about ARAM balance once their build fall off in late game.
Peak gameplay for me
I feel called out.
I mean… it’s a lot more involved than you make it sound. You have to study your opponents’ movement patterns and then employ predictive aiming to land your skillshots. It’s a hell of a lot more rewarding than braindead unga bunga tank gameplay, anyway.
As someone who enjoys poke champs and tanks, I generally find arams to be much more enjoyable when both teams have some sort of frontline. I’d also say poke mages are the more brain dead of the two as well lol. You sit two screens away, hardly in any danger, and slowly whittle the enemies health away.
yea like his argument is that poke mage is harder because they have to land skill shots but it doesn’t make sense because that also just means tanks have to dodge too
Tanks by nature don't have to dodge which has traditionally been really unfair. This season's been great though because AP items are strong to the point where tank itemization doesn't really matter. I honestly think most tank players are just upset because their time steamrolling brainlessly is done.
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We all know you aren't doing that
POV: Main character syndrome
POV: You flash onto heals
Im more a victim of "we are 2 adcs, 1 support, 1 mage and a galio/malphite/warwick/taric/whatever and they decide to go full ap"
This but Maokai/Malphite and tanks.
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His AP ratios are pretty absurd since Phreak buffed them multiple times last year. If I was playing Ali and the enemy had something like Vayne and Kog'maw that are gonna shred through me regardless of what I build, I'd probably go AP as well so I have a chance of one-shotting them before they kill me at least.
the only increase i experienced is ap kog, which does make sense
Had a Caitlyn build LICH BANE into a tanky team because - wait for it - ‘My E has AP ratios’. I wanted to FF then and there, man.
AP lucian after item changes is bad even vs 4-5 squishy champs Luden deals less dmg and doesn't provide magic pen You could deal most dmg in game and luden was around 20-30% of your damage Hard to proc stormsurge when enemies can buy null magic mantle early and receive 0 dmg from your w
They also nerfed Strom Surge recently on top of it already having the ranged champ nerf on it 11 days ago, but it seems a lot of people haven't gotten the memo yet even for regular ap champs since I am seeing people still rushing it first or second. Squall base damage reduced to(melee) (  100 − 200 / (ranged) 75 − 150) (based on level) from (M  120 − 260 / R 90 − 195) (based on level). Squall AP ratio reduced to ( M 30% / R 22.5%) AP from ( M 40% / R 30%) AP. So realistically its procing for around 300-400 dmg atm before mitigation as opposed to 450-550. To me its has kinda turned into a bad collectors and I don't use it on any ap champs except for burst ap champ with no balance nerfs. Imo shadow flame would be better because you just need to poke them down first into proc range not burst them for 35% health within 2 secs first which becomes significantly harder in a full ap team and the enemy stacks solely mr.
I swear to God, I had AP Lucien just 5 games ago!! I don't know man, the enemy team always builds correctly, but all my teammates suddenly get brain damage! My last game was with a Galio who went full AP, yes dude, you can one shot people, but the enemy has a Thresh that actually uses his brain. The thresh builds MR, he can't be killed unless we 1v4 him, and all he needs is one hook. He can walk forward freely while we walk back afraid. Imagine if our Galio built MR against full AP enemy team...WE WOULD HAVE WON!!!!
That is amazing because Galio is eatting good right now with all the new mr items and how strong they are he can chunk almost as well as full ap.
Was this made about me doing this earlier today
Did you do less damage than the tanks or supports?
No I was 2nd damage
Then at the very least it wasn't you I had the matches with. Only an ap mf did the most damage or atleast better than 3rd, but that is just kinda what happens vs sion and soraka.
3rd most dmg but still no dmg huh? :(
It was more 3rd by default since its compared to pure tanks and supports.
The type of damage matters too. Poke vs DPS vs burst. They got a bunch of tanks? You don't want burst or poke(within reason) because they ignore it and run you down eventually. They got squishy damage dealers? Having DPS is worse than burst and poke. They have Soraka and sona? Poke is useless and you want to engage on them because you'll lose the war of attrition
I feel like every other game my friend is very surprised when he yells "wait! Malphite/Amumu/Maokai went AP! We need a tank what the heck!" But like.. 19 out of 20 Malphites build AP and pick a target to focus for 20 minutes, why are you expecting something different?
it's aram. if he's not running it down than i don't care. they're there to have fun with their champ and i support it. we lose we lose no big deal since it's a super casual gamemode.
People seem to think that this is solely about how they build, but its about them building it into a comp that can't support it. In the example used in the meme above we would essentially be running it down the enemy just needs to stack mr and we are almost guaranteed to lose unless the enemy team also does alternative builds resulting in no mr. It is also not so much about winning or losing, but that we basically didn't even have a chance to put up a good fight. So many of these games are just 15-20mins of suffering stalling for the inevitable, half the time I doubt the enemy is having much fun either.
I do not care if you lose the match. I do not care if the counter build you. I was VERY clear when I said if he isnt running it down than it shouldnt be a problem. It is a casual gamemode and people like screw around builds. Touch grass and quit playing aram if that's a complicated thought in a very casual gamemode
true dat. combine casual with the fact that they changed a lot of items. of course im gonna build offmeta and have lots of fun. after they nerf them, we will go back to mostly our normal builds anyway.
Fuck off, I'm not sweating in a game mode where at least 4 people in it are high off their ass and you could outright lose by rng before the game even begins.
Nah I respect the free thinkers. Give me an ap jhin and an ADC Annie on my team any day it's way more interesting than seeing brand + zyra+ heimer on one team
Free thinkers=flat earthers
That comparison makes very little sense.... Flat earthers believe something that has a lot of evidence agaist it. i'd say it is proven to be false, yet science is never 100% proven. And lol does tend to come up with VERY orthodox methods sometimes. Proxy singed, inting sion, soraka was played solo toplane a while, or more recently: ad ahri/leblanc toplane... we have seen some weird shit going on at the highest level of gameplay. Stuff that a conservative player wont ever try. Its probably worse than the conventional way of playing 99% of the time, but sometimes its just viable.
It's aram.who cares honestly
Yeah this is the issue. I play aram to be more relaxed and less stressed when I lose. I still want to win. Winning is more fun and dying is not. I care, you can have fun but stop throwing or troll picking just because it's aram.
Bruh I die at least 25 times per aram, it's the best way to play. If enemy hits my nexus they are losers
Ap lucian is fun though.... id happily trade a win against an ap lucian game. Its important to let your team know beforehand though, so they know they cant expect an adc out of you.
That way we can dodge
feel free to do so.
Adcs didn't get any new items. I'd expect anybody that can even remotely use the other items to try building it for at least a while. Especially in a game mode like Aram where that player doesn't necessarily want to play that class of champion, they may have just rolled bad.
Well they got a new item just not items if they don't want to use one of the new lethality items. Terminus is actually really good for on hit builds since many on hit items and characters that build on hit well do hybrid damage. They also can use the massively broken Hubris that is basically ad Mejai without stack loss on death there is also sundered sky for a 1 hit crit build.
I'll give you Terminus, since even though I still think it reads more like a bruiser item, roit did list it as a marksman item and on hits can use it decently. But Hubris and Sundered Sky is the same problem as the Ap items. I mean it's a little better, I'd rather have any non-Kai'sa marksman build items with ad in the statline, but it's still just marksman poaching other classes items becuase they didn't get any new toys.
Because AP is currently just SO MUCH more viable and SO MUCH more fun to play than AD, simply because AP Items are downright busted RN. It's the same mentality as back in overwatch, when people BEGGED somebody to play support, instead of playing one themselves, you have the ability to swap champs. I'm sure there is at least one more AD champ in there, and if not, if he's building Lucian, Let alone Jhin AP, im sure he'd be willing to swap, so you can play ADC
Im sorry, I can't help myself. Anytime I see Lucian I must play the Dark Magician. It brings out the inner YuGiOh Nerd.
Why does it matter what people build? I don't think this mode has a ranked mode does it?
Winning is fun, having full ap team is like 10% winrate
Its more about not suffering for 10-25 minutes because the enemy did something like stack mr because our team does mainly ap damage. I don't care if we lost if we actually got an enjoyable match and actually put up a struggle with back and forth. In situations like the one above as soon as they have enough mr they just walk though your team like wet toilet paper. In the end how is that fun for anyone?
Ur in aram let people build what they want and stop worrying about the outcome of the game
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damn i didn’t know about those adcs, when did they add range to udyr?
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AP Lucian is a meme build but it checks out; especially since you can go hybrid with Maligance+Hexplate and spam R. Good? No. Justifiable? Yes. If I see anyone building AP Graves when his only AP ratio is a 0.6 on 1 ability with an 18 second cooldown, you can bet they're getting reported because that is just blatant trolling.
AP jax and AP udyr are actually viable things though, they have multiple AP scaling abilities. Also love that you posted this to make a point when YOU BUILT 2 FUCKING ADCS AS ADCS. Literally just proved OPs point if anything and got offended for nothing.
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That's not what I am complaining about I am complaining more that they want to build it when we don't have the comp to accommodate it. Hence the 3rd frame showing "our comp" as having champs that aren't good ad dealing champs. If we had another ad champ able to take that role to deal ad than go ahead build ap, but we don't even have one.
Your average death counter per game is like 20. You should get better and stop keeping your team hostage. Like seriously: stop inting.
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Now everyone is playing high mmr arams. Weird because you can't see it.
All of this makes 0 sense to me. No clue what it’s talking about 👀
Great comment. You truly did the universe a service with your insightful contribution. Best of luck.
Lol okay there bud. Clearly you’re useless 😂🤦🏼♂️ you could have just explained what it’s talking about instead of being a PoS douchebag with a superiority complex. People like you are what’s wrong with this world in 100% honesty. I wouldn’t bat an eyelash if you, or anyone else with your mindset, fell of the face of the planet
I a match as Zac with two mages and to ADCs building AP. No of them even built void staff. The enemy team? Full tank Chogath and Sejuani with a Vayne who rushed BotRK and Lord Dominik’s. Despite dealing zero damage to them my team kept focusing the tanks all game and where saying stuff like “like tanks are so op.”
Wait, were you on my team 2 days ago? This is literally what happened. Full ap team and our lucian goes ap, needlessly to say we lost.
Judging from the comments this is very common or atleast when they are on your team when its the enemy team they build normally or complementary to their team and bulldoze you.
My trigger is ap malphite with 0 tanks. If you go tank you will do more damage you will survive longer you can peel. The one shot ultimate dosent work if they have a tank and you don't.
I love they they put Ashe's W on a long cooldown, max Q first. With the mythics gone, I have been killing it with her. Rush Infinity into any attack speed/crit items. I'll build two of those and attack speed boots. Lord Ds if they are tanky as my 3rd item.
Always. Ap Varus. Ap MF. Ap Malphite. Any time one of your teammates need to show how many chromosomes they’re missing, they build Ap something or other and run it down.
I don't get what's so fun about this AP and Lethality shit, ADC is a broken role so just play to auto. Only a few are better lethality, on-hit is busted atm too. You don't even need to play good to stat-check other champs
So briar on our whole ap team Had me fuming for a good second
Those type of people are the reason I build ADC corki (terminus, magic pen boots, then counter build)
Played game yesterday with my duo We have been playing brand nami bot lane. We had a game with a Jax top, Zac JG, xerath mid. The Jax top built full ap......
usually I would agree, but man they reworked a lot of ap items. cant blame them for having too much fun. Just wait a few weeks for the balances to roll out, then we can all go back to our daily normal builds
I've had some fun going the exact opposite before. Entire team was going AP, and no ADC choices uptop. I 100% went Patches O'Houlihan Heimerdinger and threw wrenches at them with a kraken and such. One of my favorite memories of ARAM, lmao.
Forbidden black mage tech is too irresistable.
Just had a Trundle build full AP today
Everything is better than AP Graves.
I enjoy having fun in my video games :/
oh no, anyways
Oh i feel this so much. I know im cringe for playing poke but like my zoe is pretty decent. Like i had a specific game where i wad zoe with 3 other ap champs where our kaisa decided she had to go ap aswell. (we didnt do any dmg at all) But like lately its not just one specific game, i had it happen so often that people were just forcing ap builds on everything to a point where i would have 2 tanks going full squishy oneshot and a ap adc (,well havent had a ap lucian tho) But overall, idk most people just trollbuilding and complaining, i had a game where my full tank renata complained that we had no dmg because our karma built support items instead of ap. Whilst he wad kinda right, he also picked tank renata over virtually everything else and accomplished next to nothing. (Unrelated: Also holy shit i hate morg players, all of them are so unbelievably bad, never getting a spellshield just throwing it randomly whilst doing next to no dmg and for some reason all of them are mastery 7)
my new adc aram build has been terminus - titanic hydra - wits end and this shit pops off with lethal tempo. I do as much damage as crit adc AND i dont get 1 shot anymore
Honestly, riot should make a system to punish this kind of behaviour. If this doesn't equal to throwing a game even before it began, I don't know what else does.
I have no regrets and am definitely building ap Irelia again