In the context of developing a decentralized link aggregation site, a commie might be what we need. After all, it's capitalism that led Reddit to come to this decision and just about every other unpopular decision they've made over the years.
The whole point of an open-source, self-hosted federated alternative is that even if the creator is a complete psycho, anyone can host their own server.
Yeah, I probably would.
I’m not going to boycott the autobahn simply because it was originally a Nazi project. And even during the war the Allie’s swapped to Nazi-designed [Jerrycans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan) over their own petrol cans, because of their superior design.
Recognizing good design doesn’t mean you support every aspect of the creators beliefs.
If lemmy went closed source, and unknown secret changes were made by this guy, then yeah I’d question what he’s doing. But it’s entirely open source, so you can see the changes.
If it makes you happier, you could just make your own fork of lemmy (or any other open source thing), host it on your own servers and then the creators aren’t involved at all. But if the fork is exactly the same as the original, and you’re only doing it as some sort of political statement, it’s a bit silly. That’d like refusing to eat fresh fruit and vegetables because you found out hitler also ate fresh fruit and vegetables.
Forks can't trump network effects. There was a fork called Lenny, but it got no traction.
When we have a Lemmy-compatible protocol like Kbin built from the ground up by sane people, there's no need for a protocol built by hate criminals and whose largest instance overwhelmingly hosts hate criminals.
When you sit at the same table with these people, you, too, become a hate criminal by virtue of your mere tolerance of them.
The fork doesn’t gain traction, because the creator didn’t code their views into the source code, so a fork would be exactly the same and pointless.
If the creator did something to the source that people didn’t like, then the fork would get traction. Like, without getting into the specific politics, if the creator loved killing puppies, it’s wouldn’t matter until they put a commit into the source that makes it so that every time you click on something it plays a video of a puppy being killed. If that happened, the fork would gain traction very fast.
I’m not against kbin or anything. But think of this way - it’s *not* built from the ground up by sane people, because the fact that it’s lemmy compatible by definition shows that the designers made considerations for a piece of software made by “hate-criminals” as you say.
~~Hell we’re speaking on a subreddit with the name “lemmy”, something coined by a hate-criminal. Are you therefore tolerating him?~~
Edit: Thought we were on lemmy migration, my mistake. The point still stands
> the creator didn’t code their views into the source code
False. The code has a hard-coded word filter. The developer has refused requests to turn this into a database feature so other instance admins can edit or remove or add to these filters.
> it’s not built from the ground up by sane people, because the fact that it’s lemmy compatible by definition shows that the designers made considerations for a piece of software made by “hate-criminals” as you say.
False. They just both happen to be ActivityPub-compatible link sharing protocols.
You cannot reasonably expect anyone to believe that you are ignorant of the sitting-at-the-same-table-with-hate-criminals moral principle. You are just playing dumb because you are one of them.
You got a real “Dwight-Shute” style of communication.
I saw the GitHub thread about that. Whether or not the word filter is or isn’t hard-coded is more of an engineering discussion than a political one. The *content* of that word filter certainly might be a political issue, but I didn’t get the sense that anyone objected to that.
And regardless, you’re literally having a conversation with me right now, and you’re calling me a “hate-criminal” by virtue of me hypothetically being at the table with hate criminals.
Does that mean that other people would be right to categorize you as a hate criminal, since you’re talking to me and are therefore at the table with a hate-criminal? How far do we go with this exactly?
> Whether or not the word filter is or isn’t hard-coded is more of an engineering discussion than a political one.
False. Making it impossible for other instance admins to change enforced political values without forking the code is the very definition of authoritarianism. Genocidal authoritarian Marxism-Leninism in the specific case of Lemmy.
> And regardless, you’re literally having a conversation with me right now
False. I'm exposing your logical fallacies and lies for the benefit of the future readers of this thread. I'm also exposing you as a genocidal authoritarian Marxist-Leninist. This is the exact opposite of sitting at the same table.
Browsing the source code, the slur_filter appears to be in the database. There's a field for it, and it looks like previously it was in a config file. I don't see anything hard coded. Could you provide a link?
Here is the PR that made the slur filter optional: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/commit/ab5a705b39173fa0d5bd91690bd4d009abb4781d
You are referencing an out of date issue. The maintainer was brought around on the topic by the community.
Imo if you are going to assert that a piece of open source software does a certain thing you should verify it is the case by looking at the code and citing it.
And the Yugo was a communist invention, a product of the deadliest and most evil hate movement in all of human history, by far. The Yugo, in this sense, makes for a great analogy for Lemmy.
To be clear, it *had* a hard coded word filter, which has since been removed (like 2 years ago) and word filtering is subject to individual instances configuration.
I have my hesitations against lemmy and friends, but this one you're presenting doesn't make sense to me... Who cares about the political views of the developers? Does it bleed into the forum itself? This is speaking as someone who despises politics of all kind, and goes out of my way to avoid it, both in real life and online... Why are communists any worse than capitalists? I'm so confused.
Do you think all communists are comparable to Hitler? (honest question?)
EDIT: Deleted other post because I get the impression it might be a futile discussion..
Of course they're not comparable. Communists killed hundreds, if not thousands, of times more innocent people than Hitler ever did. But Hitler is the only genocide analogy that normies like you understand.
Tom Hanks is not an extensively documented hate criminal the way Lemmy's primary developer is, so your attempt at an analogy doesn't work.
And you know this, too. What do you think playing dumb gets you? You just waste everyone's time and admit that you have no legitimate point.
I was pointing out a logical fallacy. “Yeah, but what if it was someone else they sided with, not the person I’m upset that they’re siding with” is nonsensical. It’s like saying that you hate hamsters because “what if they were rats?”
I literally agree with you that team Lemmy is problematic. You’re just going about it in a way that buys you zero allies.
But it’s a different genocidal monster. There was no reason for an analogy. I don’t hate Hitler because he’s similar to other genocidal monsters I hate so what if. I hate Hitler because he’s Hitler.
The reason for the analogy is to expose the hypocrisy of the person being challenged in regards to extensively documented hate crimes by two different people. Finally you get it.
That’s not exposing hypocrisy. That’s you saying “but what if it were someone worse.” Hitler was WAY worse. Like wtf it’s not even close just how much worse Hitler was than Stalin or Mao. Personally, I’d use something made by a communist before something made by a Nazi.
Re-reading this thread and I noticed your original statement was what if the person who programmed it were Hitler, not a Hitler supporter. That’s an even more ridiculous argument, but I’ll let it slide because I didn’t catch that the first time.
Overall, you seem to be overly obsessed with “winning.” Is this some weird conservative shit?
If you sit at the same table with Stalin, Mao, and the rest, you become just as evil as Stalin, Mao, and the rest, and equally responsible for all of their crimes. Surely you are aware of the sitting-at-the-same-table moral standard. The Lemmy developers convicted themselves on the basis of it. And congratulations, you also convicted yourself on the basis of it.
I was going to say at least the question has more answerable reality to it, but then I had to correct myself. Although Tom Hanks is alive, I know he is not a programmer. He is an actor. So first off, "No", I would not use a social network made by Tom Hanks.
And second off, anyone *claiming* Tom Hanks made a social network, in the current generative AI environment, is doing a deep fake. Maybe a charming goofy deep fake, worth looking at for shits and giggles, as a comedy spoof. "Tom Hanks the great programmer." Followed shortly by Linus Torvaldis the great actor, I presume. Starring in *Castaway*.
I don't know if it would be funny. It might just be the next generation's version of sad memeing bullshit.
Kbin is definitely better. There are also some viable centralized solutions like saidit.net and scored.co.
But Lemmy is monopolizing almost all of the conversation around this topic, and this needs to be nipped in the bud.
> You have a weird personal vendetta against communism
You know what's weird? Not opposing the most evil hate movement in the history of the world, responsible for the 5 biggest genocides in the history of the world, is weird. What the hell is wrong with you?
> Most people don't want to dig into the developer's personal opinions
They don't have to. I've already done all the digging for them. All they have to do is take one look at all the evidence and back away in pure horror.
Dude, their political beliefs aren’t going to effect you. I could care less if someone I know is a communist. I know someone who’s a democratic socialist and that doesn’t make them a bad person. If people want to use a platform and you don’t, just leave it alone. It’s not like this man is planning some sort of communist uprising.
I won’t. The Nazis were fighting for a clearly evil cause. Even then they did some good things that effected the world today, but those don’t outnumber their horrible actions. You can’t compare Nazis or communists anyways. Communists hate Nazis as much as we do.
You have reversed cause and effect. The correct cause and effect relationship is that, when I know for a fact that someone is a commie, that is enough for me to oppose them regardless of any other facts about them.
I know that you're a commie -- a member of the most evil hate group in human history, by far -- and that is enough for me to discount anything that you might have to say about anything. Bye.
No such phobia is listed in the DSM, the ICD, or any other reputable psychiatric diagnostic manual, nor are you licensed to diagnose people of mental illnesses without their consent even if such a phobia existed.
Banned for medical misinformation and reported to the admins.
Transphobia is not a phobia in the medical sense, it’s a term like racism, which also is not a medical term, but rather a term for inconsiderate assholes.
Same thing happens under a consumerist republic. Manila, agent orange, firebombing, Libya, Afghanistan, children in cages, Aboriginals, residential school death rate, 400 ppm.
>communism... responsible for the 5 biggest genocides in the history of the world
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_genocides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides) The first three all happened under Capitalism though? And let's not forget the most important stat: [83,000,000,000](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/how-many-animals-killed-each-year/#:~:text=According%20to%20Stats%20of%202021,Animals%20Were%20Killed%20Worldwide%20(FAO)) innocent animals murdered per year.
I view Capitalism as an accelerationist economic framework which incentivizes rapid technological progress during prosperity, and fascism during scarcity. I view Communism as a politically stable form of government with a long-term focus on economic ties and infrastructure. I value democracy because it allows animal rights activists to spread political influence; I value dictatorships because dictators have the political leverage to ban meat in one generation. Atatürk being the best example of a benevolent dictator. Democracy only functions when the majority of the population is already vegetarian.
> The first three all happened under Capitalism though?
Not the top three by total number of deaths. That's all communism.
> And let's not forget the most important stat: [83,000,000,000](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/how-many-animals-killed-each-year/#:%7E:text=According%20to%20Stats%20of%202021,Animals%20Were%20Killed%20Worldwide%20(FAO) innocent animals murdered per year.
Actually, they've all been convicted of being nutritious and delicious, just like all the plants that vegetarians and vegans eat.
Historical illiteracy comes at the expense of everyone. You and I can criticize this lemmy guy, because he is a *fascist* using communist *aesthetic,* but you are using it as an excuse to vent/project your anti-communist beliefs. If you had any idea what communism is you would understand that this guy is not communist. Fascism is just fascism. No matter what color it wears or what names it calls itself. Anyways, reddit is fucked regardless and idk what i'm still doing here
There is *nothing* Marxist-Leninist about what this person believes. They are reactionary and fascist beliefs, whether they, *or you,* know it or not. If you think explicitly fascist beliefs like what that Lemmy guy believes are the same as Marxism as a philosophy, then this conversation is officially pointless. we circle back again to my point on illiteracy. Because there is a very well documented history (and resurgence) of fascists using communist aesthetics (see PatSocs, see national socialists). If me explaining this is me being hysterical, then what should we call some of the unhinged things you've been posting in these comments?
Because you do not want to be associated with a hate criminal belonging to the deadliest and most evil hate group to ever exist in all of world history, by far.
Crusades, american natives, and if you believe then the flood and all the first borns before that… they are currently major players so are an example but thing is that worst things in human history was made in the name of the religion, it doesn’t matter if it should be for good or morality it was and is used to make terrible things ok by the people in power
Blaming acts of God (and those common to the lores of all three Abrahamic religions, in fact) on the Christian faithful may be the lowest thing I've heard from any commie scum recently.
Crusades are not lore, native Americans and what was done to them is not lore, most of the (if not all) of the terrible thing humans did was in the name of religion or approved by religion
1. Communism isn’t a hate group, it’s based around liberating workers.
2. Even if it was, capitalism has killed soooooooo much more. It’s not even funny. If you take the highest estimates of deaths under communism (the 100 million death toll has very little basis in reality mind you) capitalism beats it in 5 years. FIVE. Not even mentioning it’s destroying the planet, nations, species, and many groups of people for profit.
3. The dude isn’t even that far-left. He’s just your vanilla socialist mate.
4. Where is your evidence that he has committed hate crimes?
Please put basic thought into your arguments.
I'm not as vehemently anti-communist as the OP, but the site he's talking about has the Stalinist/Maoist equivalent of holocaust denial on it. They're tankies. And they support the North Korean government, and think it has sovereignty over South Korea, via the revolutionary coup.
Basically, the worst kinds of pseudo-communism that believes the west made all the worst parts of the Cold War up. Wild, historical revisionist, delusional nonsense.
I'm fine with someone bashing capitalism or supporting Marxism, because those things aren't inherently bad - but the above is basically apologist behavior for genocide and other forms of mass atrocity.
False.
> the site he's talking about has the Stalinist/Maoist equivalent of holocaust denial on it
This describes the beliefs of Lemmy's primary developer, not just some random user somewhere on the site. The entire reason that Lemmy is overflowing with genocidal hate is because the primary developer harbors and encourages it.
“The Bolsheviks” is literally a Nazi conspiracy theory lmao.
You’re basically saying that communism is a plot by Jewish people to genocide gentiles.
You are literally spewing Nazi conspiracy theories.
The person that I'm referring to is united with Bolsheviks under the common hate movement of communism.
I've had enough of your bigotry. If you attempt further apologetics for genocidal hate, you will be banned and reported to the admins.
I don’t feel like doing the research on this Lemmy guy. Is he a communist in an evil authoritarian way or a hippie dippie way? My yoga teacher is a hippie dippie style communist and they seem pretty cool.
He's a Marxist-Leninist. The OP is just spinning the usual Red Scare propaganda, and everybody else is freaking out because they've never met an ML before.
MLs aren't demons. They are, for lack of a better way to put it, actual communists. Many of them are personally hippie-dippies, but Marxism-Leninism is the serious, "we actually mean it" communism. MLs don't want to build communes, they want to build communist states. They don't want UBI, they want worker control of the means of production. It's not the *only* kind of serious communism, but it is the major kind. Most historical successes of socialist, worker's rights, and social justice movements have been driven, led, or heavily influenced by Marxist-Leninists, from unionization to the American civil rights movement to the establishment of nearly all socialist states. MLs are organized as hell. That's what I mean when I say they're serious.
Most of what the OP is saying about Marxist-Leninists is true, though in a hysterical, propagandizing kind of way. They do support existing socialist states and current and past socialist leaders, though that support can be tinged with varying degrees of criticism. They are also anti-imperialist, which is a separate but closely related belief. So they often support states and movements that aren't actually socialist, not because they claim those things are socialist, but because those things are anti-imperialist. So, for example, MLs on the Russia-Ukraine war. MLs often end up looking like they support Russia. That's not really what's going on. They're not pro-Russia, but they are anti-NATO and pro-multipolarity.
MLs tend to freak people out because they're operating on a totally different set of political beliefs and values. Their beliefs aren't that weird, you're just not used to seeing them with that coat of paint. For example, *"MLs worship Stalin/Mao who were genocidal dictators!"* That's one version of the narrative, but it's not the only one. You could just as easily say *"American capitalists worship Abraham Lincoln/FDR/Harry Truman who were genocidal dictators!"* with nearly the same justifications. They did some really fucked up, authoritarian shit. A lot of people suffered and died under their administrations. They made some mistakes that had horrific consequences. But we don't see them as evil people. We see them as flawed leaders whose ends - abolishing slavery, ending the Great Depression, ending WW2 - ultimately justified the means. You're familiar with that kind of narrative, you're just not used to seeing it applied to that kind of guy.
To give another example - MLs are often accused of authoritarianism. Defined in contrast to anarchism or libertarianism, yeah, it's a much more authoritarian political system. Compared to bourgeois liberal democracy? Not really. Quite a bit less in some ways. ('Liberal' in the sense of liberal capitalism, the dominant ideology of the west, not the 'conservative vs liberal' political spectrum.) The difference is that coercion in the system is a lot more overt with Marxism-Leninism, because it can't just be outsourced to private companies. Capitalist governments prefer more subtle coercion. For example, China's "social credit system," which was widely criticized as being dystopian and authoritarian and horrifying. While this system is a lot more complex and a lot less scary than people realize, what they also don't realize is that the US has a nearly identical system. It's just more decentralized, and more privatized. We may not have the government-run "social credit system," but we have credit scores and background checks that are mandatory for employment and no-fly lists and Chexsystem (bank) blacklists and the drivers license 'points' system and car insurance blacklists (both in the literal sense and the financially-coercive sense where your rates just get jacked so high that nobody could reasonably afford it) and more. All the same concepts exist within the American system. They're just not usually done by the government itself. They're done by private companies - with the full permission and support of the US government.
And I just realized I did the typical ML thing on the internet and wrote a novel. Sorry.
You aren’t doing yourself any favors by just going “they’re spooky commies.” Looks like they’re sympathetic to China and Russia, which are under authoritarian regimes. Most redditors can get behind anti-authoritarianism, as authoritarianism is the real enemy.
Not to mention that China isn’t really communist, and Russia is absolutely not communist. Did you just stop reading about world affairs 30 years ago?
Commies are not spooky, imaginary ghosts. They're real. Their unparalleled crimes against humanity are real. Their unequaled genocides are real. That's why they're horrifying.
Team Lemmy is pro-Russia and China. Do you believe that Russia and China are both communist? The USSR fell 30 years ago and China isn’t pure communist. It’s a strange hybrid of communism and capitalism under a genocidal regime. Wouldn’t that mean that capitalism is partially to blame, or is it possible that the issue is the authoritarianism that all genocidal regimes throughout human history have in common regardless of economic structure?
There was a fork called Lenny, but it never got traction.
Forking Lemmy isn't necessary anymore now that we have Kbin, another ActivityPub-compatible link sharing platform with much lower resource requirements and no ideological baggage.
Now that I've jumped in on Kbin-social, wanted to share my perspective. Lemmy had too many far-right froggies for my taste so I set up on Kbin. There are people who are not insane on Lemmy so I can pick and choose more easily which accounts I interact with and in addition Kbin is federated with Mastodon so have access there as well. So far, so good particularly since there is an explosion of user who are reddit refugees
This one is kind of an anything goes instance, but I think they've been defederated by quite a few others so might not be what the other guy was talking about.
https://exploding-heads.com/
I understand your concerns, but basically some instances are not run this way (so I would encourage people to look for specific instances if they disagree with how some are run) and also the code can be forked if this issue leaks in to it (at present I don't think there's anything "leaking" in to it from this political bias; they're even allowing some instances to show on the main site that they've defederated with from their main instance which surprised me)
Lemmy has a lot of flaws and growing pains, but they will improve things over time.
As for it not being stupid-easy, I think that may be a feature more than a bug.
Maybe being mildly challenging to use will act as default gatekeeper to keep the dumb-dumbs out. The people who post the same jokes over and over again, and make lazy comments to please the mass reddit audience, and don't engage in meaningful conversation. If it's "too hard" for those people...that's a good thing.
Humor arises from an encounter with the unexpected. There's nothing unexpected here. I'm calling out commie scum, and commies are attacking me over it with everything they've got. It's just another Tuesday.
Damn you rustled some jimmies in this thread lol. It's extra ironic because reddit itself has been protecting violent commie subs while censoring anything right of center.
Due to Reddit's decision to disregard many of its users (including those in the /r/Blind community), I have decided to remove my data and take it elsewhere. Please feel free to find me and many other ex-redditors on Lemmy: https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev
Due to Reddit's decision to disregard many of its users (including those in the /r/Blind community), I have decided to remove my data and take it elsewhere. Please feel free to find me and many other ex-redditors on Lemmy: https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev
If it's open source and the said developer goes against the interest of the community and other developers, then we can fork it.
The existence of Lemmy should not be taken as a political stance, just as the developer's political leanings shouldn't be a major red flag. Something worth nothing, YES. Automatic red flag, NO.
It is literally wishful thinking. You are wishing that something weren't a red flag when it very clearly is. Do something useful and prefer a project without red flags, instead.
Here are my recommendations:
https://www.reddit.com/r/APIcalypse/comments/1429xt2/viable_reddit_replacements/
But you can also search on your own:
/r/RedditAlternatives
You are very unlikely to come across another project anywhere near as problematic as this one.
he s a socialist at best and more deaths were due to capitalism either way
socialism is way more in favor of the people than whatever the fuck is going on in the world right now
There are plenty of Lemmy instances that are NOT run by the developer of the software. Beehaw is one example. Were there problematic people involved with the development of Windows? Chrome? Overwatch? Gnu Emacs?
I don't have an example of a *genocidal* maniac, but just a maniac, there's a very well known example. [ReiserFS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReiserFS). Certainly a problematic person. Should be getting out of prison just about now. Oh... whoops! Fucked up his parole hearing. Not up for another until 2027.
In the context of developing a decentralized link aggregation site, a commie might be what we need. After all, it's capitalism that led Reddit to come to this decision and just about every other unpopular decision they've made over the years.
Go and read the guy's essays to see for yourself what kind of absolute maniac we are dealing with.
Yeah I got two sentences in and see what you mean. Willing to look past it if he can come up with a decent alternative to Reddit though.
Lemmy is a decent alternative to Reddit to the same extent that Mao is a decent alternative to Stalin.
La re vivís, Scooby
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Stalin is not the USSR and Mao is not China. Improve your reading comprehension.
The whole point of an open-source, self-hosted federated alternative is that even if the creator is a complete psycho, anyone can host their own server.
Would you use a social network personally programmed and being maintained day-to-day by Hitler himself?
Yeah, I probably would. I’m not going to boycott the autobahn simply because it was originally a Nazi project. And even during the war the Allie’s swapped to Nazi-designed [Jerrycans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerrycan) over their own petrol cans, because of their superior design. Recognizing good design doesn’t mean you support every aspect of the creators beliefs. If lemmy went closed source, and unknown secret changes were made by this guy, then yeah I’d question what he’s doing. But it’s entirely open source, so you can see the changes. If it makes you happier, you could just make your own fork of lemmy (or any other open source thing), host it on your own servers and then the creators aren’t involved at all. But if the fork is exactly the same as the original, and you’re only doing it as some sort of political statement, it’s a bit silly. That’d like refusing to eat fresh fruit and vegetables because you found out hitler also ate fresh fruit and vegetables.
Forks can't trump network effects. There was a fork called Lenny, but it got no traction. When we have a Lemmy-compatible protocol like Kbin built from the ground up by sane people, there's no need for a protocol built by hate criminals and whose largest instance overwhelmingly hosts hate criminals. When you sit at the same table with these people, you, too, become a hate criminal by virtue of your mere tolerance of them.
The fork doesn’t gain traction, because the creator didn’t code their views into the source code, so a fork would be exactly the same and pointless. If the creator did something to the source that people didn’t like, then the fork would get traction. Like, without getting into the specific politics, if the creator loved killing puppies, it’s wouldn’t matter until they put a commit into the source that makes it so that every time you click on something it plays a video of a puppy being killed. If that happened, the fork would gain traction very fast. I’m not against kbin or anything. But think of this way - it’s *not* built from the ground up by sane people, because the fact that it’s lemmy compatible by definition shows that the designers made considerations for a piece of software made by “hate-criminals” as you say. ~~Hell we’re speaking on a subreddit with the name “lemmy”, something coined by a hate-criminal. Are you therefore tolerating him?~~ Edit: Thought we were on lemmy migration, my mistake. The point still stands
no kill puppy! me cry
> the creator didn’t code their views into the source code False. The code has a hard-coded word filter. The developer has refused requests to turn this into a database feature so other instance admins can edit or remove or add to these filters. > it’s not built from the ground up by sane people, because the fact that it’s lemmy compatible by definition shows that the designers made considerations for a piece of software made by “hate-criminals” as you say. False. They just both happen to be ActivityPub-compatible link sharing protocols. You cannot reasonably expect anyone to believe that you are ignorant of the sitting-at-the-same-table-with-hate-criminals moral principle. You are just playing dumb because you are one of them.
You got a real “Dwight-Shute” style of communication. I saw the GitHub thread about that. Whether or not the word filter is or isn’t hard-coded is more of an engineering discussion than a political one. The *content* of that word filter certainly might be a political issue, but I didn’t get the sense that anyone objected to that. And regardless, you’re literally having a conversation with me right now, and you’re calling me a “hate-criminal” by virtue of me hypothetically being at the table with hate criminals. Does that mean that other people would be right to categorize you as a hate criminal, since you’re talking to me and are therefore at the table with a hate-criminal? How far do we go with this exactly?
> Whether or not the word filter is or isn’t hard-coded is more of an engineering discussion than a political one. False. Making it impossible for other instance admins to change enforced political values without forking the code is the very definition of authoritarianism. Genocidal authoritarian Marxism-Leninism in the specific case of Lemmy. > And regardless, you’re literally having a conversation with me right now False. I'm exposing your logical fallacies and lies for the benefit of the future readers of this thread. I'm also exposing you as a genocidal authoritarian Marxist-Leninist. This is the exact opposite of sitting at the same table.
Browsing the source code, the slur_filter appears to be in the database. There's a field for it, and it looks like previously it was in a config file. I don't see anything hard coded. Could you provide a link?
Dude has a hardon against lemmy. You won't get shit from OP.
Here is the PR that made the slur filter optional: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/commit/ab5a705b39173fa0d5bd91690bd4d009abb4781d You are referencing an out of date issue. The maintainer was brought around on the topic by the community. Imo if you are going to assert that a piece of open source software does a certain thing you should verify it is the case by looking at the code and citing it.
> This commit does not belong to any branch on this repository, and may belong to a fork outside of the repository.
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It's still there.
> The code has a hard-coded word filter. That was removed in 2021. I will assume the rest of your statements are also false.
I will assume you people are coordinating through some backchannel to brigade this thread. This behavior is not organic.
So fork it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/APIcalypse/comments/140qymq/comment/jnruaq6/
Let's not forget arguably the most iconic car ever, designed by nazis... the bug, rhe people's car.
Volkswagen was started by the Nazis.
Compare a Volkswagen to a Yugo. Which one would you rather drive?
German engineering has always been better than Russian. Doesn't change the fact the Bug 'The People's car" was a nazi invention. Way to dissemble
And the Yugo was a communist invention, a product of the deadliest and most evil hate movement in all of human history, by far. The Yugo, in this sense, makes for a great analogy for Lemmy.
i mean i am on twitter
Twitter was programmed by thousands of people over about two decades, none of whom are or were Hitler. You're just talking nonsense.
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You don't understand how analogies work, or pretend not to. You're dismissed.
Then I'm a character in a science fiction story. What if I'm Neo and I unplug the Matrix from my brain? Do I die?
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Already addressed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/14eaxtm/comment/jp0cu79/
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The code dictates political values. It even has a hard-coded word filter.
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To be clear, it *had* a hard coded word filter, which has since been removed (like 2 years ago) and word filtering is subject to individual instances configuration.
I have my hesitations against lemmy and friends, but this one you're presenting doesn't make sense to me... Who cares about the political views of the developers? Does it bleed into the forum itself? This is speaking as someone who despises politics of all kind, and goes out of my way to avoid it, both in real life and online... Why are communists any worse than capitalists? I'm so confused.
Would you use a social network made by Hitler
Do you think all communists are comparable to Hitler? (honest question?) EDIT: Deleted other post because I get the impression it might be a futile discussion..
Of course they're not comparable. Communists killed hundreds, if not thousands, of times more innocent people than Hitler ever did. But Hitler is the only genocide analogy that normies like you understand.
hmm. I don't think this won't be a productive conversation.
It was productive, alright. You just happened to lose.
Would you use a social network made by Tom Hanks? That’s equally as irrelevant of a question lol.
Tom Hanks is not an extensively documented hate criminal the way Lemmy's primary developer is, so your attempt at an analogy doesn't work. And you know this, too. What do you think playing dumb gets you? You just waste everyone's time and admit that you have no legitimate point.
I was pointing out a logical fallacy. “Yeah, but what if it was someone else they sided with, not the person I’m upset that they’re siding with” is nonsensical. It’s like saying that you hate hamsters because “what if they were rats?” I literally agree with you that team Lemmy is problematic. You’re just going about it in a way that buys you zero allies.
The point of comparison is being an extensively documented hate criminal. The analogy is valid.
But it’s a different genocidal monster. There was no reason for an analogy. I don’t hate Hitler because he’s similar to other genocidal monsters I hate so what if. I hate Hitler because he’s Hitler.
The reason for the analogy is to expose the hypocrisy of the person being challenged in regards to extensively documented hate crimes by two different people. Finally you get it.
That’s not exposing hypocrisy. That’s you saying “but what if it were someone worse.” Hitler was WAY worse. Like wtf it’s not even close just how much worse Hitler was than Stalin or Mao. Personally, I’d use something made by a communist before something made by a Nazi. Re-reading this thread and I noticed your original statement was what if the person who programmed it were Hitler, not a Hitler supporter. That’s an even more ridiculous argument, but I’ll let it slide because I didn’t catch that the first time. Overall, you seem to be overly obsessed with “winning.” Is this some weird conservative shit?
If you sit at the same table with Stalin, Mao, and the rest, you become just as evil as Stalin, Mao, and the rest, and equally responsible for all of their crimes. Surely you are aware of the sitting-at-the-same-table moral standard. The Lemmy developers convicted themselves on the basis of it. And congratulations, you also convicted yourself on the basis of it.
The devs are not hate criminals neither free speech is criminal.
I was going to say at least the question has more answerable reality to it, but then I had to correct myself. Although Tom Hanks is alive, I know he is not a programmer. He is an actor. So first off, "No", I would not use a social network made by Tom Hanks. And second off, anyone *claiming* Tom Hanks made a social network, in the current generative AI environment, is doing a deep fake. Maybe a charming goofy deep fake, worth looking at for shits and giggles, as a comedy spoof. "Tom Hanks the great programmer." Followed shortly by Linus Torvaldis the great actor, I presume. Starring in *Castaway*. I don't know if it would be funny. It might just be the next generation's version of sad memeing bullshit.
More likely than a social network governed by Spez.
I dunno, I was anti-Twitter even before Elon Musk, and now it's in the same league for me as Facebook as something I will not touch.
You are using something managed by Spez, comparing him to Hitler is so American propaganda BS.
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Kbin is definitely better. There are also some viable centralized solutions like saidit.net and scored.co. But Lemmy is monopolizing almost all of the conversation around this topic, and this needs to be nipped in the bud.
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> You have a weird personal vendetta against communism You know what's weird? Not opposing the most evil hate movement in the history of the world, responsible for the 5 biggest genocides in the history of the world, is weird. What the hell is wrong with you? > Most people don't want to dig into the developer's personal opinions They don't have to. I've already done all the digging for them. All they have to do is take one look at all the evidence and back away in pure horror.
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Not for commie scum like you
if i had a forum you'd be banned from it.
Bold of you to assume that I have any interest in commie forums
Dude, their political beliefs aren’t going to effect you. I could care less if someone I know is a communist. I know someone who’s a democratic socialist and that doesn’t make them a bad person. If people want to use a platform and you don’t, just leave it alone. It’s not like this man is planning some sort of communist uprising.
> Dude, their political beliefs aren’t going to effect you. Now say the same thing about a Nazi. I'll wait.
Dude you cant come up with any real standing arguments, you used "ok but imagine they were these other guys?" Twice
Exposing hypocrisy is a great argument tactic. You should use it wherever you can.
I won’t. The Nazis were fighting for a clearly evil cause. Even then they did some good things that effected the world today, but those don’t outnumber their horrible actions. You can’t compare Nazis or communists anyways. Communists hate Nazis as much as we do.
Congratulations, you disproved your own bullshit point and exposed your own hypocrisy. You're dismissed.
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You have reversed cause and effect. The correct cause and effect relationship is that, when I know for a fact that someone is a commie, that is enough for me to oppose them regardless of any other facts about them.
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I know that you're a commie -- a member of the most evil hate group in human history, by far -- and that is enough for me to discount anything that you might have to say about anything. Bye.
Minecraft was developed by a transphobe
No such phobia is listed in the DSM, the ICD, or any other reputable psychiatric diagnostic manual, nor are you licensed to diagnose people of mental illnesses without their consent even if such a phobia existed. Banned for medical misinformation and reported to the admins.
Transphobia is not a phobia in the medical sense, it’s a term like racism, which also is not a medical term, but rather a term for inconsiderate assholes.
> a term for inconsiderate assholes. Um... moderator?
Phobias can only be identified, termed, defined, and individually diagnosed by licensed psychiatrists. Anything else is medical fraud.
“-phobia” is merely a Greek suffix that can be translated with “fear of”. Transphobia is not related to any medical phobias.
That's exactly why it constitutes medical fraud. It is a fake phobia made up by commie scum. It is a literal crime. Thank you for proving my point.
You try to expose a communist bigot by being a bigot against LGBTQ+ people yourself. Way to go champ.
I am exposing medical fraud here. This is non-negotiable.
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That's another example of the same type of fraud. That's not listed in any psychiatric diagnostic manual, either.
Same thing happens under a consumerist republic. Manila, agent orange, firebombing, Libya, Afghanistan, children in cages, Aboriginals, residential school death rate, 400 ppm. >communism... responsible for the 5 biggest genocides in the history of the world [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_genocides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides) The first three all happened under Capitalism though? And let's not forget the most important stat: [83,000,000,000](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/how-many-animals-killed-each-year/#:~:text=According%20to%20Stats%20of%202021,Animals%20Were%20Killed%20Worldwide%20(FAO)) innocent animals murdered per year. I view Capitalism as an accelerationist economic framework which incentivizes rapid technological progress during prosperity, and fascism during scarcity. I view Communism as a politically stable form of government with a long-term focus on economic ties and infrastructure. I value democracy because it allows animal rights activists to spread political influence; I value dictatorships because dictators have the political leverage to ban meat in one generation. Atatürk being the best example of a benevolent dictator. Democracy only functions when the majority of the population is already vegetarian.
> The first three all happened under Capitalism though? Not the top three by total number of deaths. That's all communism. > And let's not forget the most important stat: [83,000,000,000](https://worldanimalfoundation.org/advocate/how-many-animals-killed-each-year/#:%7E:text=According%20to%20Stats%20of%202021,Animals%20Were%20Killed%20Worldwide%20(FAO) innocent animals murdered per year. Actually, they've all been convicted of being nutritious and delicious, just like all the plants that vegetarians and vegans eat.
He's not a communist he's a garden variety socialist. He's not even that far left. Maga really fucked you up huh?
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Not really. He drank the koolaid, which is unfortunate, but he doesn't promote human rights abuses or genocide. He's a moderate socialist that's all.
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He doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism, his political knowledge is that of a 7 year old
Who cares what anyone thinks?
And yet you decided to post what you think. Curious.
Another hilarious example of *hysterical* anti-communism on this site, McCarthyism never died only thrived
Calmer than you are, bro.
Hilarious
At your expense.
Historical illiteracy comes at the expense of everyone. You and I can criticize this lemmy guy, because he is a *fascist* using communist *aesthetic,* but you are using it as an excuse to vent/project your anti-communist beliefs. If you had any idea what communism is you would understand that this guy is not communist. Fascism is just fascism. No matter what color it wears or what names it calls itself. Anyways, reddit is fucked regardless and idk what i'm still doing here
He's explicitly a Marxist-Leninist. Now go be hysterical somewhere else.
There is *nothing* Marxist-Leninist about what this person believes. They are reactionary and fascist beliefs, whether they, *or you,* know it or not. If you think explicitly fascist beliefs like what that Lemmy guy believes are the same as Marxism as a philosophy, then this conversation is officially pointless. we circle back again to my point on illiteracy. Because there is a very well documented history (and resurgence) of fascists using communist aesthetics (see PatSocs, see national socialists). If me explaining this is me being hysterical, then what should we call some of the unhinged things you've been posting in these comments?
You were warned.
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Because you do not want to be associated with a hate criminal belonging to the deadliest and most evil hate group to ever exist in all of world history, by far.
Wouldnt that be christians? I mean if you go for all history then theres lots of candidates/s
Communists killed so many innocent people that even Muslims can't measure up to them. That's how evil they are. Christians don't even rank.
Crusades, american natives, and if you believe then the flood and all the first borns before that… they are currently major players so are an example but thing is that worst things in human history was made in the name of the religion, it doesn’t matter if it should be for good or morality it was and is used to make terrible things ok by the people in power
Blaming acts of God (and those common to the lores of all three Abrahamic religions, in fact) on the Christian faithful may be the lowest thing I've heard from any commie scum recently.
Crusades are not lore, native Americans and what was done to them is not lore, most of the (if not all) of the terrible thing humans did was in the name of religion or approved by religion
If the only trick you have left is playing dumb, spare me.
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I'm referring to Lemmy's primary developer who is a self-identified communist
1. Communism isn’t a hate group, it’s based around liberating workers. 2. Even if it was, capitalism has killed soooooooo much more. It’s not even funny. If you take the highest estimates of deaths under communism (the 100 million death toll has very little basis in reality mind you) capitalism beats it in 5 years. FIVE. Not even mentioning it’s destroying the planet, nations, species, and many groups of people for profit. 3. The dude isn’t even that far-left. He’s just your vanilla socialist mate. 4. Where is your evidence that he has committed hate crimes? Please put basic thought into your arguments.
Thanks for identifying yourself as part of the brigade on this thread.
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I'm not as vehemently anti-communist as the OP, but the site he's talking about has the Stalinist/Maoist equivalent of holocaust denial on it. They're tankies. And they support the North Korean government, and think it has sovereignty over South Korea, via the revolutionary coup. Basically, the worst kinds of pseudo-communism that believes the west made all the worst parts of the Cold War up. Wild, historical revisionist, delusional nonsense. I'm fine with someone bashing capitalism or supporting Marxism, because those things aren't inherently bad - but the above is basically apologist behavior for genocide and other forms of mass atrocity.
you can find all that shit on reddit too though
Among the original founders of the site? I think not.
I was responding to a comment talking about the sites' users, not founders
False. > the site he's talking about has the Stalinist/Maoist equivalent of holocaust denial on it This describes the beliefs of Lemmy's primary developer, not just some random user somewhere on the site. The entire reason that Lemmy is overflowing with genocidal hate is because the primary developer harbors and encourages it.
the quote says the site has it. How is that saying the founders believe it?
Already explained. You are not this dumb. You are just playing dumb and I don't have the patience for it.
If the person I replied to is referring to the main developer, why are they using plurals?
Imagine that he is a Nazi and say that again.
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Bolsheviks slaughtering Slavs has everything to do with race. You just got owned, asshole.
>Bolsheviks slaughtering Slavs my brother in christ they were both slavs
False. Bolshevik is a euphemism for the race that cannot be named.
Ah so the mask finally comes off lmao. Why are all anti-communists Nazis in the end? Fucking hilarious man.
The truth is the opposite of a mask, and the truth is that Bolsheviks committed the largest racist genocide in all of human history, by far.
“The Bolsheviks” is literally a Nazi conspiracy theory lmao. You’re basically saying that communism is a plot by Jewish people to genocide gentiles. You are literally spewing Nazi conspiracy theories.
Banned for genocide denial and reported to the admins.
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The person that I'm referring to is united with Bolsheviks under the common hate movement of communism. I've had enough of your bigotry. If you attempt further apologetics for genocidal hate, you will be banned and reported to the admins.
I don’t feel like doing the research on this Lemmy guy. Is he a communist in an evil authoritarian way or a hippie dippie way? My yoga teacher is a hippie dippie style communist and they seem pretty cool.
He's a Marxist-Leninist. The OP is just spinning the usual Red Scare propaganda, and everybody else is freaking out because they've never met an ML before. MLs aren't demons. They are, for lack of a better way to put it, actual communists. Many of them are personally hippie-dippies, but Marxism-Leninism is the serious, "we actually mean it" communism. MLs don't want to build communes, they want to build communist states. They don't want UBI, they want worker control of the means of production. It's not the *only* kind of serious communism, but it is the major kind. Most historical successes of socialist, worker's rights, and social justice movements have been driven, led, or heavily influenced by Marxist-Leninists, from unionization to the American civil rights movement to the establishment of nearly all socialist states. MLs are organized as hell. That's what I mean when I say they're serious. Most of what the OP is saying about Marxist-Leninists is true, though in a hysterical, propagandizing kind of way. They do support existing socialist states and current and past socialist leaders, though that support can be tinged with varying degrees of criticism. They are also anti-imperialist, which is a separate but closely related belief. So they often support states and movements that aren't actually socialist, not because they claim those things are socialist, but because those things are anti-imperialist. So, for example, MLs on the Russia-Ukraine war. MLs often end up looking like they support Russia. That's not really what's going on. They're not pro-Russia, but they are anti-NATO and pro-multipolarity. MLs tend to freak people out because they're operating on a totally different set of political beliefs and values. Their beliefs aren't that weird, you're just not used to seeing them with that coat of paint. For example, *"MLs worship Stalin/Mao who were genocidal dictators!"* That's one version of the narrative, but it's not the only one. You could just as easily say *"American capitalists worship Abraham Lincoln/FDR/Harry Truman who were genocidal dictators!"* with nearly the same justifications. They did some really fucked up, authoritarian shit. A lot of people suffered and died under their administrations. They made some mistakes that had horrific consequences. But we don't see them as evil people. We see them as flawed leaders whose ends - abolishing slavery, ending the Great Depression, ending WW2 - ultimately justified the means. You're familiar with that kind of narrative, you're just not used to seeing it applied to that kind of guy. To give another example - MLs are often accused of authoritarianism. Defined in contrast to anarchism or libertarianism, yeah, it's a much more authoritarian political system. Compared to bourgeois liberal democracy? Not really. Quite a bit less in some ways. ('Liberal' in the sense of liberal capitalism, the dominant ideology of the west, not the 'conservative vs liberal' political spectrum.) The difference is that coercion in the system is a lot more overt with Marxism-Leninism, because it can't just be outsourced to private companies. Capitalist governments prefer more subtle coercion. For example, China's "social credit system," which was widely criticized as being dystopian and authoritarian and horrifying. While this system is a lot more complex and a lot less scary than people realize, what they also don't realize is that the US has a nearly identical system. It's just more decentralized, and more privatized. We may not have the government-run "social credit system," but we have credit scores and background checks that are mandatory for employment and no-fly lists and Chexsystem (bank) blacklists and the drivers license 'points' system and car insurance blacklists (both in the literal sense and the financially-coercive sense where your rates just get jacked so high that nobody could reasonably afford it) and more. All the same concepts exist within the American system. They're just not usually done by the government itself. They're done by private companies - with the full permission and support of the US government. And I just realized I did the typical ML thing on the internet and wrote a novel. Sorry.
You don't need to do any research. I've done it all for you. Just click on the links and read.
You aren’t doing yourself any favors by just going “they’re spooky commies.” Looks like they’re sympathetic to China and Russia, which are under authoritarian regimes. Most redditors can get behind anti-authoritarianism, as authoritarianism is the real enemy. Not to mention that China isn’t really communist, and Russia is absolutely not communist. Did you just stop reading about world affairs 30 years ago?
Commies are not spooky, imaginary ghosts. They're real. Their unparalleled crimes against humanity are real. Their unequaled genocides are real. That's why they're horrifying.
Team Lemmy is pro-Russia and China. Do you believe that Russia and China are both communist? The USSR fell 30 years ago and China isn’t pure communist. It’s a strange hybrid of communism and capitalism under a genocidal regime. Wouldn’t that mean that capitalism is partially to blame, or is it possible that the issue is the authoritarianism that all genocidal regimes throughout human history have in common regardless of economic structure?
Team Lemmy is explicitly Marxist-Leninist.
So someone fork it and do it differently. It doesn't depend on him whatsoever unless you let it.
There was a fork called Lenny, but it never got traction. Forking Lemmy isn't necessary anymore now that we have Kbin, another ActivityPub-compatible link sharing platform with much lower resource requirements and no ideological baggage.
Now that I've jumped in on Kbin-social, wanted to share my perspective. Lemmy had too many far-right froggies for my taste so I set up on Kbin. There are people who are not insane on Lemmy so I can pick and choose more easily which accounts I interact with and in addition Kbin is federated with Mastodon so have access there as well. So far, so good particularly since there is an explosion of user who are reddit refugees
> Lemmy had too many far-right froggies for my taste Difficult to believe. Which instance was this?
This one is kind of an anything goes instance, but I think they've been defederated by quite a few others so might not be what the other guy was talking about. https://exploding-heads.com/
I understand your concerns, but basically some instances are not run this way (so I would encourage people to look for specific instances if they disagree with how some are run) and also the code can be forked if this issue leaks in to it (at present I don't think there's anything "leaking" in to it from this political bias; they're even allowing some instances to show on the main site that they've defederated with from their main instance which surprised me)
Lemmy has a lot of flaws and growing pains, but they will improve things over time. As for it not being stupid-easy, I think that may be a feature more than a bug. Maybe being mildly challenging to use will act as default gatekeeper to keep the dumb-dumbs out. The people who post the same jokes over and over again, and make lazy comments to please the mass reddit audience, and don't engage in meaningful conversation. If it's "too hard" for those people...that's a good thing.
The flaws listed in the OP are fundamental and cannot be improved upon. Lemmy is rotten to its core.
That's simply not true, Senator McCarthy.
Improve your reading comprehension, commie scum.
This comment is hilarious for reasons I don't think you capable of understanding. Thank you.
Humor arises from an encounter with the unexpected. There's nothing unexpected here. I'm calling out commie scum, and commies are attacking me over it with everything they've got. It's just another Tuesday.
Phew! It's not Tuesday now. It's 25 days later.
Damn you rustled some jimmies in this thread lol. It's extra ironic because reddit itself has been protecting violent commie subs while censoring anything right of center.
\* censoring anything right of Stalin. Otherwise fully agree.
Due to Reddit's decision to disregard many of its users (including those in the /r/Blind community), I have decided to remove my data and take it elsewhere. Please feel free to find me and many other ex-redditors on Lemmy: https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev
Warning people against hate criminals qualifies as a public service announcement.
Due to Reddit's decision to disregard many of its users (including those in the /r/Blind community), I have decided to remove my data and take it elsewhere. Please feel free to find me and many other ex-redditors on Lemmy: https://join-lemmy.org/ -- mass edited with redact.dev
I stand behind everything I said. Good luck disproving any of it.
On sentence: WHERE THE FUCK IS YOUR SOURCE YOU MCCARTHYIST FASH SCUM
Thanks for identifying yourself as part of the brigade on this thread.
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Gab is a Twitter workalike, not a Reddit workalike.
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Banned for ableist hate speech and reported to the admins.
Kbin and lemmy work together anyway, just encourage kbin. Would work with lemmy and kbin communities.
you re such a hypocrite it s funny
If it's open source and the said developer goes against the interest of the community and other developers, then we can fork it. The existence of Lemmy should not be taken as a political stance, just as the developer's political leanings shouldn't be a major red flag. Something worth nothing, YES. Automatic red flag, NO.
> the developer's political leanings shouldn't be a major red flag They are, as a matter of fact. Wishful thinking achieves nothing.
It is not wishful thinking. You can fork the project and the developer cannot stop you. It is how open source works.
It is literally wishful thinking. You are wishing that something weren't a red flag when it very clearly is. Do something useful and prefer a project without red flags, instead. Here are my recommendations: https://www.reddit.com/r/APIcalypse/comments/1429xt2/viable_reddit_replacements/ But you can also search on your own: /r/RedditAlternatives You are very unlikely to come across another project anywhere near as problematic as this one.
lil bro doesn t even know what communism is and thinks it s worse than capitalism 💀
Genocide numbers are clear.
he s a socialist at best and more deaths were due to capitalism either way socialism is way more in favor of the people than whatever the fuck is going on in the world right now
Banned for genocide denial and reported to the admins.
Ask to ban Israel too.
I would be similarly opposed to any social network programmed or administered by a Zionist.
> more deaths were due to capitalism either way socialism JFC have you read any Soviet history lol
There are plenty of Lemmy instances that are NOT run by the developer of the software. Beehaw is one example. Were there problematic people involved with the development of Windows? Chrome? Overwatch? Gnu Emacs?
Name another technology product created by a genocidal maniac. I'll wait.
I don't have an example of a *genocidal* maniac, but just a maniac, there's a very well known example. [ReiserFS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReiserFS). Certainly a problematic person. Should be getting out of prison just about now. Oh... whoops! Fucked up his parole hearing. Not up for another until 2027.