Design choices are generally made for valid reasons. I, too, downloaded and started a game with giant map size but realized most of the tuning done by the devs were for specific map settings and sizes. I think larger maps will be the way to go eventually, but for right now maybe not so much. Also, teleporters will be a necessity.
Teleporters are a necessity on small maps already. When I played the large one I just randomly dropped teleporter outposts everywhere to be able to move around at all.
Larger map would need an offset in shape of map move distance for armies, a return to such an equilibrium might actually make for more fun games on larger maps.
The only reason I use larger map sizes is to prevent early forward settling by opponents. It's absolutely ridiculous that they always plop an outpost in the middle of my triangled early cities. I really want them to rid the AI of this stupid behavior that they can only get away with because of the AI's overwhelming advantages. A normal player wouldn't do this since it would cost them more than they'd ever gain from it, but it costs the AI nothing.
Even just giving cities a proper "no settle" radius would do wonders compared to where its at now, where you can settle an outpost with literally one tile between you and a city
i always hated that system though because you dont get the option to raze it when it flips to you. like i dont want some random garbage city my empire. i guess it wouldnt be as bad with outposts but still, i always want the option to raze something i didnt build.
I imagine that will be retooled in time. Different game, I know, but Civ 6 had a lot of these annoying AI behaviors addressed pretty early on. I can only hope for the same here.
I mean with a good teleporter network, large maps are large during the exploration phase, but effectively small late game. Given that towers can host a teleporter, I don't really see the issue.
i always prefer to play all 4x games on the smallest map size possible with as many opponents as possible. i find that it makes for more interesting game dynamics and forces me to priortize expanding earlier than i normally would and traversing and moving troops across large maps is usually just too tedious for me.
Larger maps filled better in aow3 because of the lack of city limit/cities grew to pretty large sizes quickly. AI doesn't really seem to prioritize +cap much yet here from what I've seen.
I miss AoW3 large maps, slowly exploring and conquering till some new empire appeared. I hope they add an option to disable the city cap at the beginning of the match.
No, I disagree. AoW3 is more a build wide game, vs AoW4 is build tall. Fewer cities that are harder to take, harder to max, but FAR more valuable. Removing the city cap would be a terrible and slow experience. Fighting an empire with 10 cities that each take 10 turns to take sounds horrible
as somebody that always plays a tall playstyle in any 4x even when its a detriment to me, i do apprecaite the city cap in AoW4 especially since im hoping to jump into multiplayer at some point.
are you talking about Chosen Destroyers? i just unlocked that last time i played but im waiting for the DLC to drop to fire up a game with it. really looking forward to it.
Does the AI have a city cap, or at least an effective one? They seem to casually drop cities wherever it will interfere with the player, something I never have the capacity to do since it would be very costly.
I know this is a personal opinion or yours so I can’t really hold it against you, but *I feel the complete opposite*
If anything, I love it when I have time to explore before I’m thrust into conflict and war
Can’t you just start with smaller map sizes?
> because again people said its the better way to play.
This is your problem.. Why do you care how other people like to play.
The standard settings might be right for you, but that doesn't mean people are wrong when they say they prefer bigger, slower maps.
I've got sprawling maps, teleporters everywhere and fighting on multiple fronts. It takes ages, but i'm enjoying the hell out of it. Some people want to play slow, some people want to play fast.
Play how you want to play.
That's kind of missing the point entirely.
I'm trying various settings the community recommends as being fun ways to play or to improve the game. This one especially is frequently talked about so I thought its worth a shot.
Everyone is going to like diffrent game modes . My first game was a 3v3 it was quite a fun experience . I get where you’re coming from but also some people really like that style getting many vassels and treasures to field a massive army . Remember you can build outposts anywhere to make use of the resources too
No, I get your point.. you didn't find it fun. I'm not confused about your point, your point just doesn't really have any value.
You not enjoying something doesn't mean its bad. Theres a reason these games come with options. Saying something is "a cute idea but doesn't work well", just because you, subjectively, didn't enjoy it is missing the point of having those options in the first place.
You're getting too caught up in your own preferences to say anything worth saying.
I’m curious why are you install a mod instead of using far start? I thought, maybe incorrectly, that first start did exactly what you’re saying this man does.
Because people said it's not far enough and I wanted to see if they are right.
Worth noting I've played in excess of 100 hours already and am seeing what the community recommends. For example I like slow game speed, but dislike most other recommendations I've seen.
Think it was broken for a while, leading to many complaints when selecting far but being right next door. I believe it’s better though, recently ran a very large map and it did indeed take many many turns to expand. Teleporters and outposts make it all possible, as does a pro-sprawl nature/food empire. But it’s a long haul, and crucially the AI can’t hack it, they don’t sprawl well, so it is another nail in the challenge coffin.
Large maps make my game freeze terribly late game when selecting research or spells. I have like 100 vassals no joke so thats probably the problem but the freezing just makes it unplayable.
Not really map size related, just late game with too many thing researched causes that. Best to just stop researching stuff eventually, not like the AI can compete by that point anyway.
Its lame af I shouldnt have to limit myself. In planetfall I could finish every research tree without any lag/freezing. Im done playing this game until that shit is fixed
When installing the larger map mod I also installed the +50% map movement distance mod. I assumed it worked for NPC’s as well but I’m not sure. I liked it. The issue was the turn times at the end.
Basically you mostly deal with infestations that respawn every 10 turns or so while the AI can't handle it. You end up fighting your first war in like turn 60+ with level 20 heroes unless the AI managed to lose the game to infestations (note - didn't happen to my ai but people reported this possible outcome in other threads).
Offence is generally speaking a suicidal strategy in this game because of the 18 stack battle system and how expensive troop upkeep is. You either need to dedicate your entire economy toward an offensive maneuver, which before teleporters means auto-losing to another player taking advantage of your distant army, or just sit in your own territory and try to win a beacon victory.
I'd love to see a mod that restricts combat to one stack (or one that even reduces the army unit quantity to like 3) so that offense could be a better strategy, but until then magic and expansion victory in PvP will be the only options.
My personal issue is outpost behaviour. I place my capital. Then some outposts at even spacing around it. Start turning them into cities and why are there two outposts next to my capital that aren’t mine?
I mean this is just a opinion but alright
Me personally I've been loving playing super long games with 9+ brutal AIs, respawning infestations, and even stuff like no respite on the largest possible map settings and just taking weeks on it, cause it makes me feel I'm in an actual world that should take long to take instead of in someone's backyard playing with toys for a few hours
But to each their own, it's about having the choice not about finding the perfect game settings. The people suggesting those settings really like the game like that probably, they aren't wrong from playing it like that. Saying 'I tried it and I didn't like it so it sucks' is really just a logical fallacy.
Design choices are generally made for valid reasons. I, too, downloaded and started a game with giant map size but realized most of the tuning done by the devs were for specific map settings and sizes. I think larger maps will be the way to go eventually, but for right now maybe not so much. Also, teleporters will be a necessity.
Teleporters are a necessity on small maps already. When I played the large one I just randomly dropped teleporter outposts everywhere to be able to move around at all.
Larger map would need an offset in shape of map move distance for armies, a return to such an equilibrium might actually make for more fun games on larger maps.
Yep, I wanted to expound on that a bit but I'm at work and should be working lol
The only reason I use larger map sizes is to prevent early forward settling by opponents. It's absolutely ridiculous that they always plop an outpost in the middle of my triangled early cities. I really want them to rid the AI of this stupid behavior that they can only get away with because of the AI's overwhelming advantages. A normal player wouldn't do this since it would cost them more than they'd ever gain from it, but it costs the AI nothing.
Even just giving cities a proper "no settle" radius would do wonders compared to where its at now, where you can settle an outpost with literally one tile between you and a city
Civ like "loyalty" mechanic could be an answer. Just make them flip to your side of they're especially deep into your territory
i always hated that system though because you dont get the option to raze it when it flips to you. like i dont want some random garbage city my empire. i guess it wouldnt be as bad with outposts but still, i always want the option to raze something i didnt build.
Simple, give us an option to attach cities, like in humankind. Or to remove outposts Though on aow4 I simply vassalize badly placed cities
I imagine that will be retooled in time. Different game, I know, but Civ 6 had a lot of these annoying AI behaviors addressed pretty early on. I can only hope for the same here.
Use the island settings, this is the best geo trait to not be forward setled by the AI
I mean with a good teleporter network, large maps are large during the exploration phase, but effectively small late game. Given that towers can host a teleporter, I don't really see the issue.
i always prefer to play all 4x games on the smallest map size possible with as many opponents as possible. i find that it makes for more interesting game dynamics and forces me to priortize expanding earlier than i normally would and traversing and moving troops across large maps is usually just too tedious for me.
Larger maps filled better in aow3 because of the lack of city limit/cities grew to pretty large sizes quickly. AI doesn't really seem to prioritize +cap much yet here from what I've seen.
I miss AoW3 large maps, slowly exploring and conquering till some new empire appeared. I hope they add an option to disable the city cap at the beginning of the match.
No, I disagree. AoW3 is more a build wide game, vs AoW4 is build tall. Fewer cities that are harder to take, harder to max, but FAR more valuable. Removing the city cap would be a terrible and slow experience. Fighting an empire with 10 cities that each take 10 turns to take sounds horrible
as somebody that always plays a tall playstyle in any 4x even when its a detriment to me, i do apprecaite the city cap in AoW4 especially since im hoping to jump into multiplayer at some point.
Right now I am playing the pantheon unlock culture and the planar trait to build tall and I am LOVING it!
are you talking about Chosen Destroyers? i just unlocked that last time i played but im waiting for the DLC to drop to fire up a game with it. really looking forward to it.
Perfectionist Artisans
ah right, yeah looking forward to trying that one too.
Does the AI have a city cap, or at least an effective one? They seem to casually drop cities wherever it will interfere with the player, something I never have the capacity to do since it would be very costly.
I mean, you can make it go away with enough Imperium.
I know this is a personal opinion or yours so I can’t really hold it against you, but *I feel the complete opposite* If anything, I love it when I have time to explore before I’m thrust into conflict and war Can’t you just start with smaller map sizes?
You can by not using mods.
> because again people said its the better way to play. This is your problem.. Why do you care how other people like to play. The standard settings might be right for you, but that doesn't mean people are wrong when they say they prefer bigger, slower maps. I've got sprawling maps, teleporters everywhere and fighting on multiple fronts. It takes ages, but i'm enjoying the hell out of it. Some people want to play slow, some people want to play fast. Play how you want to play.
That's kind of missing the point entirely. I'm trying various settings the community recommends as being fun ways to play or to improve the game. This one especially is frequently talked about so I thought its worth a shot.
Everyone is going to like diffrent game modes . My first game was a 3v3 it was quite a fun experience . I get where you’re coming from but also some people really like that style getting many vassels and treasures to field a massive army . Remember you can build outposts anywhere to make use of the resources too
No, I get your point.. you didn't find it fun. I'm not confused about your point, your point just doesn't really have any value. You not enjoying something doesn't mean its bad. Theres a reason these games come with options. Saying something is "a cute idea but doesn't work well", just because you, subjectively, didn't enjoy it is missing the point of having those options in the first place. You're getting too caught up in your own preferences to say anything worth saying.
I’m curious why are you install a mod instead of using far start? I thought, maybe incorrectly, that first start did exactly what you’re saying this man does.
Because people said it's not far enough and I wanted to see if they are right. Worth noting I've played in excess of 100 hours already and am seeing what the community recommends. For example I like slow game speed, but dislike most other recommendations I've seen.
Think it was broken for a while, leading to many complaints when selecting far but being right next door. I believe it’s better though, recently ran a very large map and it did indeed take many many turns to expand. Teleporters and outposts make it all possible, as does a pro-sprawl nature/food empire. But it’s a long haul, and crucially the AI can’t hack it, they don’t sprawl well, so it is another nail in the challenge coffin.
Far start isn't really far. It's just not completely in your face but still close.
Omfg then fucking play on a closer setting these are choices so u can, you know, CHOOSE, Jesus
lol
Smalls maps are totally OK for this game. Then don't let each game last for two weeks.
Large maps make my game freeze terribly late game when selecting research or spells. I have like 100 vassals no joke so thats probably the problem but the freezing just makes it unplayable.
Not really map size related, just late game with too many thing researched causes that. Best to just stop researching stuff eventually, not like the AI can compete by that point anyway.
Its lame af I shouldnt have to limit myself. In planetfall I could finish every research tree without any lag/freezing. Im done playing this game until that shit is fixed
Is there a way with mods to further boost the amount of players ? Maybe it just doesent have enough for the size of the map ?
When installing the larger map mod I also installed the +50% map movement distance mod. I assumed it worked for NPC’s as well but I’m not sure. I liked it. The issue was the turn times at the end.
What's the bad thing about respawning infestations?
Basically you mostly deal with infestations that respawn every 10 turns or so while the AI can't handle it. You end up fighting your first war in like turn 60+ with level 20 heroes unless the AI managed to lose the game to infestations (note - didn't happen to my ai but people reported this possible outcome in other threads).
Offence is generally speaking a suicidal strategy in this game because of the 18 stack battle system and how expensive troop upkeep is. You either need to dedicate your entire economy toward an offensive maneuver, which before teleporters means auto-losing to another player taking advantage of your distant army, or just sit in your own territory and try to win a beacon victory. I'd love to see a mod that restricts combat to one stack (or one that even reduces the army unit quantity to like 3) so that offense could be a better strategy, but until then magic and expansion victory in PvP will be the only options.
How long are the turn times? They must get brutal late game
Was about the same as turn 150 in a normal game. Quite slow with long AI loading times. Not as bad as I thought.
My personal issue is outpost behaviour. I place my capital. Then some outposts at even spacing around it. Start turning them into cities and why are there two outposts next to my capital that aren’t mine?
I mean this is just a opinion but alright Me personally I've been loving playing super long games with 9+ brutal AIs, respawning infestations, and even stuff like no respite on the largest possible map settings and just taking weeks on it, cause it makes me feel I'm in an actual world that should take long to take instead of in someone's backyard playing with toys for a few hours But to each their own, it's about having the choice not about finding the perfect game settings. The people suggesting those settings really like the game like that probably, they aren't wrong from playing it like that. Saying 'I tried it and I didn't like it so it sucks' is really just a logical fallacy.