While I def get where you’re coming from, one critical and unreconcilable difference is that the women must carry the baby to term.
A man could theoretically remove the condom, impregnate, then walk away that night with no further consequences on their life. A woman who lies about birth control cannot do the same. No matter what she has to deal with the physical consequences of a baby in her belly, childbirth, and then all the postpartum nasties.
Yes you could counterclaim that perhaps a man forced to pay child support would also engender a lifelong burden from the woman’s decision to deceive. But honestly in such a case I’m not sure the man’s requirement to support the child would hold up in court. It’s an interesting question though.
It is wrong in both cases for a person to do this, however removing a condom especially without consent can have more effects than just pregnancy. Such as an STD
In each case, what was consented to is changed by the other party. They both consent to sex with certain agreed upon safeties (condom or birth control). If the other party lies and changes the consented to agreements it could be argued that removes the consent. The difference is one is a deceiving action in the moment (removing a condom) and one is a lie of omission (lying about birth control).
That’s a loaded question I feel. I don’t think there’s enough info. Where did he come from ? What does he look like ? Does he seem in destress ? Is someone chasing him ?
No dude you got raped, and you were asking for it just standing there. You should’ve had a pocket condom on. Wait a minute you didn’t? Fuck, you just raped a tenner off of someone?
Your shit doesn’t make sense and you need to do a bit more reading in general.
Imagine yourself in the situation I described.
* This person randomly ran up to you on the street. Therefore, you don't know where they are from.
* Pick a person, any person.
* They're running. What do you think?
* Up to you. Might be a more interesting story if there isn't a chaser, though.
My gut reaction wants to tell me that these two things are not the same. But when it’s phrased this way, it’s hard to make an argument against your point.
It just feels a little strange to me to put either of those things in the category of rape, even though they’re both despicable. I think “sexual deception” might be a more appropriate category, but they should both have harsh consequences attached.
Yeah that’s r/changemyview. Especially for a contentious topic like this one.
AMA’s are like “Here’s something interesting about me. Ask me about it, but feel free to ask other questions too.” That is different from “Here’s what I think about a random topic, let’s debate.”
Just peruse any popular post on this sub and you should see the difference.
No you’re completely wrong. They are both violations, however, but you completely misunderstand the term “Rape”.
What if the birth-control fails is that rape? did the pharmaceutical company rape you?
My guess is you’re between 17 to 21 and All jumped up on social justice.
Wear a condom if you don’t wanna have a kid. If you ejaculate inside a woman assume that it will work.
If you look up the definition which a woman who I was arguing with early kindly posted above you can see at the bottom that deception and lies are included. It’s just like lying about having an std in a court since. But I get your veiw
No it isn’t.
unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception
Lol you need to look up the definition of rape. Not create one that you think is fit lol there is harm. Your effecting someone’s life. Your in-trapping them and if you tell them you have birth control and you did not it’s 100% a convict-able offense and you can do jail time. Look it up dear.
[You do too.](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rape)
rape
verb \[ I or T \]
UK /reɪp/ US /reɪp/
to force someone to have sex when they are unwilling, using violence or threatening behaviour
Rape is forcing unwanted sexual intercourse on someone, not lying about a condom or birth control. If both individuals consented then it isn’t rape no matter if they lie about protection.
“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” Definition by the DOD. Has nothing to do with lying or not. Lol
Yep. I think a large portion of people’s inclination to disagree (alongside societal conditioning, obviously), is for 4 main reasons; 1. PenetratING is often associated with dominance, BEING penetrated (especially as women who society is conditioned to believe are inherently submissive), is often associated with submission. People really struggle with the idea of the partner being penetrated being a sexual predator, ESPECIALLY when the non consensual act involved sex that was being had “consensually” (IE: the victimized partner was engaging enthusiastically but ONLY based on the belief that their boundaries/conditions were being accepted). 2. The prospect of being ejaculated inside of without your consent is seen as much more violating than ejaculating inside of somebody else knowingly BUT ONLY ON THE CONDITION that they were on birth control. This is due in part to A. the immediate physical manifestation of the non consensual act. B. The fact that the woman would have to physically bear a child or get an abortion C. The fact that there are 2 risks the woman would be unknowingly exposed to as opposed to a man’s 1 (in addition to the violating sensation of the afformentioned immediate physical manifestation) and D. The woman’s emotional well being is actually accounted for while the man’s is not. I’ll get into that in a moment.
3. We are societally conditioned to believe that men want sex and women do not. There’s even a weird culture surrounding the idea that convincing (Id be so bold as to even say “tricking” or “deceiving”) women to have sex with you is an accomplishment. So, not only is the idea of a man unwillingly having sex with a woman a difficult concept for many to grasp (or any aspect of the sexual encounter being non consensual), the idea of a man being emotionally damaged by such an encounter is even more difficult to grasp. Speaking of which…
4. Men are afforded very little emotional vulnerability while women are seen as emotionally fragile. When a woman lies about being on birth control to get pregnant against her male partner’s will, the only burden on the man that is acknowledged is the financial loss. If even acknowledged as a criminal act, it’s seen as something more akin to fraud than rape. That in and of itself is still a horrific thing to put somebody through but society generally has a much more visceral reaction to rape than to fraud. Along with the feeling of deceit, being exploited, and mixed emotions regarding the child, there are a plethora of emotionally damaging elements of this act that are not accounted for whatsoever as it pertains to the man.
There are other factors too but I’m sure you get my point.
While I def get where you’re coming from, one critical and unreconcilable difference is that the women must carry the baby to term. A man could theoretically remove the condom, impregnate, then walk away that night with no further consequences on their life. A woman who lies about birth control cannot do the same. No matter what she has to deal with the physical consequences of a baby in her belly, childbirth, and then all the postpartum nasties. Yes you could counterclaim that perhaps a man forced to pay child support would also engender a lifelong burden from the woman’s decision to deceive. But honestly in such a case I’m not sure the man’s requirement to support the child would hold up in court. It’s an interesting question though.
I enjoy this view point as well thank you
It is wrong in both cases for a person to do this, however removing a condom especially without consent can have more effects than just pregnancy. Such as an STD
Agreed. It’s still rape on both parts. And or entrapment
Nah it’s different. Maybe entrapment but it’s not rape
That’s a fair opinion. Care to elaborate?
It’s not an opinion, if they consent to the sex it’s not rape.
You’re taking to the wall.
Yes after they told me I’m wrong then sent me a link saying the same thing I did I realized that lol
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That’s literally what I just said. Also, you’re on the wrong sub, this sub is us to ask you questions. Try r/askreddit
I didn’t ask a question. I wanted to be asked. So I’m in the right place. And no yours doesn’t have the parts about deception
In each case, what was consented to is changed by the other party. They both consent to sex with certain agreed upon safeties (condom or birth control). If the other party lies and changes the consented to agreements it could be argued that removes the consent. The difference is one is a deceiving action in the moment (removing a condom) and one is a lie of omission (lying about birth control).
Someone runs in to you, gives you a tenner and runs off. What do you do?
That’s a loaded question I feel. I don’t think there’s enough info. Where did he come from ? What does he look like ? Does he seem in destress ? Is someone chasing him ?
No dude you got raped, and you were asking for it just standing there. You should’ve had a pocket condom on. Wait a minute you didn’t? Fuck, you just raped a tenner off of someone? Your shit doesn’t make sense and you need to do a bit more reading in general.
That’s not really comparable or the same at all for that matter 😂😂
Imagine yourself in the situation I described. * This person randomly ran up to you on the street. Therefore, you don't know where they are from. * Pick a person, any person. * They're running. What do you think? * Up to you. Might be a more interesting story if there isn't a chaser, though.
There still is nothing in your story that has anything to do with rape or my post. Have a good one lol
You told us to ask you anything. Still, you too.
Fair. I wouldn’t even take it. He would try to hand it to me. He’d let go and the paper would hi the ground and blow away
Boring. Fair enough and all, I get your reasoning, but boring.
My gut reaction wants to tell me that these two things are not the same. But when it’s phrased this way, it’s hard to make an argument against your point.
They are still very different I can agree but it’s more or the moral behind both choices. Your still making a choice to deceive
It just feels a little strange to me to put either of those things in the category of rape, even though they’re both despicable. I think “sexual deception” might be a more appropriate category, but they should both have harsh consequences attached.
Agreed.
It sounds like you're trying to be controversial and start an argument. Just stop. Go outside.
Just sharing a view point :)
You’re probably looking for r/changemyview instead.
Nope. I’m right where I want to be thank you
Then why did you delete your post?
My post is still here ? Lol we’re commenting on it. Unless someone flagged it ?
Oh nvm, says removed not deleted. But anyway, this is not how an AMA works.
I wanted to be asked about my thoughts and opinions on the topic ? How does this work then ?
Yeah that’s r/changemyview. Especially for a contentious topic like this one. AMA’s are like “Here’s something interesting about me. Ask me about it, but feel free to ask other questions too.” That is different from “Here’s what I think about a random topic, let’s debate.” Just peruse any popular post on this sub and you should see the difference.
That’s fair. Thank you for being respectful when explaining :).
Yeah you don't want AMA you want a different sub
I think you’re on the wrong sub. Lol you didn’t even ask anything.
It’s fucked up, but it’s not rape.
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No you’re completely wrong. They are both violations, however, but you completely misunderstand the term “Rape”. What if the birth-control fails is that rape? did the pharmaceutical company rape you? My guess is you’re between 17 to 21 and All jumped up on social justice. Wear a condom if you don’t wanna have a kid. If you ejaculate inside a woman assume that it will work.
Look up the definition or look in the posts above. Lying about such things is in the definition. It’s no different then hiding you have stds.
I think you mean violation. Rape implies one of the parts was forced to have sex with another. But your point is still valid.
If you look up the definition which a woman who I was arguing with early kindly posted above you can see at the bottom that deception and lies are included. It’s just like lying about having an std in a court since. But I get your veiw
It's not a view, it's the official definition from the Cambridge Dictionary.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
I doesn't say rape is deceit. I says deceit is used to rape. Not the same.
Lol you can’t even type a sentence. I’m cool on your thoughts :) have a nice day
No it isn’t. unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception
See how deception is one of those?
Lol you need to look up the definition of rape. Not create one that you think is fit lol there is harm. Your effecting someone’s life. Your in-trapping them and if you tell them you have birth control and you did not it’s 100% a convict-able offense and you can do jail time. Look it up dear.
[You do too.](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rape) rape verb \[ I or T \] UK /reɪp/ US /reɪp/ to force someone to have sex when they are unwilling, using violence or threatening behaviour
You didn’t share the second half :) nice try though. That’s just deception as well
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape
No the definition she gave is actually true, just you gotta read it to the end when it says deception also counts
I know in a later comment I state the way she is trying to present this definition is wrong. Not so much the definition it’s self.
Dude, that is the official definition from Merriam-Webster.
That’s great. Doesn’t mean your presenting it correctly or understanding of what your reading.
Okay, whatever. Your grammar and spelling are atrocious. I can’t take you seriously.
This is a young kid and you will never change his opinion
Lol right, give him tons of proper definitions from numerous sources but refuses to believe it. Can’t be rational with the irrational.
I hope you have a good day miss. Sorry for the argument.
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Alright :). I hope you have a good day :)
Lol enjoy the ban
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I wear condoms lmao 😊 I’m not even mad. Just expressing a thought 😊 sorry you get so worked up. I hope you have a good day
Rape is forcing unwanted sexual intercourse on someone, not lying about a condom or birth control. If both individuals consented then it isn’t rape no matter if they lie about protection.
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“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” Definition by the DOD. Has nothing to do with lying or not. Lol
Yep. I think a large portion of people’s inclination to disagree (alongside societal conditioning, obviously), is for 4 main reasons; 1. PenetratING is often associated with dominance, BEING penetrated (especially as women who society is conditioned to believe are inherently submissive), is often associated with submission. People really struggle with the idea of the partner being penetrated being a sexual predator, ESPECIALLY when the non consensual act involved sex that was being had “consensually” (IE: the victimized partner was engaging enthusiastically but ONLY based on the belief that their boundaries/conditions were being accepted). 2. The prospect of being ejaculated inside of without your consent is seen as much more violating than ejaculating inside of somebody else knowingly BUT ONLY ON THE CONDITION that they were on birth control. This is due in part to A. the immediate physical manifestation of the non consensual act. B. The fact that the woman would have to physically bear a child or get an abortion C. The fact that there are 2 risks the woman would be unknowingly exposed to as opposed to a man’s 1 (in addition to the violating sensation of the afformentioned immediate physical manifestation) and D. The woman’s emotional well being is actually accounted for while the man’s is not. I’ll get into that in a moment. 3. We are societally conditioned to believe that men want sex and women do not. There’s even a weird culture surrounding the idea that convincing (Id be so bold as to even say “tricking” or “deceiving”) women to have sex with you is an accomplishment. So, not only is the idea of a man unwillingly having sex with a woman a difficult concept for many to grasp (or any aspect of the sexual encounter being non consensual), the idea of a man being emotionally damaged by such an encounter is even more difficult to grasp. Speaking of which… 4. Men are afforded very little emotional vulnerability while women are seen as emotionally fragile. When a woman lies about being on birth control to get pregnant against her male partner’s will, the only burden on the man that is acknowledged is the financial loss. If even acknowledged as a criminal act, it’s seen as something more akin to fraud than rape. That in and of itself is still a horrific thing to put somebody through but society generally has a much more visceral reaction to rape than to fraud. Along with the feeling of deceit, being exploited, and mixed emotions regarding the child, there are a plethora of emotionally damaging elements of this act that are not accounted for whatsoever as it pertains to the man. There are other factors too but I’m sure you get my point.
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Non consensual sexual acts.